Epstein & UFOs: The Secret Science Honeypot (Ft. Jay Anderson & Kurt Metzger)

Incogni: Take your personal data back with Incogni! Use code AMERICANALCHEMY at the link below and get 60% off an annual plan: ⁠https://incogni.com/americanalchemy We dive into the complex web of power dynamics surrounding Jeffrey Epstein, exploring his connections to eugenics, secret science, and the influence of intelligence agencies. The discussion also touches on the intersection of UFO phenomena, ancient civilizations, and the role of Templars in shaping modern narratives. We look at the dark side of celebrity culture and the conspiracies that continue to surround Epstein's legacy, questioning the narratives presented to the public and the deeper truths that may lie beneath. | Jay Anderson | YouTube ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectUnity X ➤https://x.com/TheProjectUnity | Kurt Metzger | YouTube ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@thejimmydoreshow X ➤https://x.com/kurtmetzger -------------------------- JOIN OUR WHOP (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://whop.com/jessemichels Patreon (Early Drops/Ad Free) ➤ https://www.patreon.com/c/JesseMichels Discord ➤https://discord.gg/crHc44m3kF Instagram ➤ https://www.instagram.com/jessemichelsofficial TikTok ➤ https://www.tiktok.com/@itsjessemichels X ➤ https://twitter.com/AlchemyAmerican Spotify ➤ https://tinyurl.com/jessemichelsspotify Clips Channel ➤ https://www.youtube.com/@JesseMichelsClips Website ➤ https://www.jesse-michels.com/ Merchandise ➤ https://www.americanalchemymerch.com/ Media Inquiries ➤ [email protected] #UFO #DeepState #Epstein #JesseMichels #ProjectUnity #KurtMetzger #JayAnderson Tags - Project Unity, Kurt Metzger, Jay Anderson Chapters 00:00 The Power Dynamics of Epstein's Network 03:07 Epstein's Obsession with Eugenics and Secret Science 05:55 UFOs and the Intersection with Epstein's Legacy 08:50 Exploring Ancient Civilizations and Their Mysteries 12:11 The Role of the Templars and Esoteric Knowledge 14:59 The Influence of Intelligence Agencies on UFO Discourse 18:03 The Dark Side of Celebrity and Power 20:55 The Conspiracy of Silence Surrounding Epstein 23:57 The Intersection of Science Fiction and Reality 26:52 The Legacy of Manson and Epstein's Connections 29:59 The Unraveling of the Epstein Narrative 59:18 Exploring MK Ultra and Monarch Programming 01:02:26 The Symbolism of Pleasure Island and Subconscious Desires 01:06:10 The Influence of Epstein and Financial Crimes 01:10:39 The City of London and Financial Corruption 01:13:42 The Role of Secret Societies in Power Dynamics 01:18:11 UFOs, Whistleblowers, and the Disruption of Truth 01:22:15 The Intersection of Esotericism and Reality 01:26:34 The Nature of Non-Human Entities and Their Influence 01:30:25 CERN, Portals, and High-Energy Physics 01:35:40 The Montauk Experiments and Remote Viewing 01:39:22 The Moon Landing and the Role of NASA 01:43:06 The Influence of Adrenochrome and Mind Control 01:48:37 The Role of Humor in Understanding Conspiracy 01:51:58 The Ego in the UFO Community 01:54:36 The Nature of Pranks and Intel Operations 01:57:32 The Intersection of Science and Conspiracy 02:01:49 Acoustic Technologies and Ancient Civilizations 02:10:17 Subterranean Structures and Their Mysteries 02:22:38 Theories of Advanced Ancient Technologies 02:32:14 The Legacy of Giants and Ancient Knowledge 02:40:12 The Influence of Non-Human Intelligence 02:53:36 The Role of Disinformation in Modern Discourse Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:01Speaker 01

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• 0:30Jesse Michels?

  The Vatican, City of London, you know Knights of Malta, do you think any of these groups have disproportionate power today?

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Oh!

• 0:38Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, like, I would agree with Kozlov.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  President Trump is confronting a growing backlash from his own base. The fight is dividing MAGA supporters. Donald Trump, he promised them, so he needs to do it.

• 0:49Jesse Michels?

  Just this month, we learned a very hard truth: that our government is not our government. It's controlled by deeper power structures involving systems of blackmail and compromise. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. I'm of course talking about the notorious case of Jeffrey Epstein, his handler, Ghislaine Maxwell, and their client list: the rich, powerful elite that he procured sexual favors for from unwilling underage women.

• 1:17Speaker 05

  And on the wall, there was a big artwork of a woman being [BLEEP] by a walrus.

• 1:23Jesse Michels?

  Oh, wow. I'm also talking about Cash Patel, Dan Bongino, Pam Bondi, Trump, and his whole team campaigning on exposing Epstein's network, and then turning around and gaslighting the American public, acting like Epstein was a lone actor who took his own life in jail. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. Just like you have the lone shooter theory with JFK, claiming that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, he obviously didn't, you have the lone sex trafficker theory with Jeffrey Epstein. Nobody believes the state line here. And this time, due to social media and podcasts, nobody believes anybody else believes this, and it's not going away. I know for a fact documents are being suppressed,

• 2:08Jesse Michels?

  and they're being suppressed to protect individuals. Wired Magazine, a fairly conventional tech publication, just revealed that the metadata from Jeffrey Epstein's prison cell video that was supposed to point to his suicide had been edited, likely using Adobe Premiere.

• 2:25Jesse Michels?

  And when it was originally released, a whole minute was missing. Ghislaine Maxwell is in jail right now for sex trafficking. But there are no perpetrators of the actual crime. Who were her clients she sex trafficked young women to? You have all these women, these victims, coming out, but you have no clients. That's a basic, logical fallacy. Justice Now is holding accountable the perpetrators that helped him and participated with him. That is unbelievable. Finally, Team Trump is doing something really interesting. They aren't just engaging in the typical political food fight. They could say that the FBI, under Biden, just destroyed the evidence around Epstein because Trump telegraphed that they wanted transparency. But no, they're acting like Epstein was some lone sexual deviant

• 3:11Jesse Michels?

  who isn't part of some larger shadow network that actively has leverage over American leaders. They're gaslighting and telling you to look away. And quite honestly, they're acting like they themselves are compromised.

• 3:22Speaker 06

  Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking at this?

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Well, he's dead, so, you know, in general, you always have to be careful.

• 3:37Jesse Michels?

  Anyways, like I said, everybody knows all this stuff. I don't have to tell it to you. What interests me and what we're going to cover on this show are the deeper threads around Jeffrey Epstein. What was he actually doing?

• 3:49Speaker 07

  He certainly was not a financier in any standard sense.

• 3:53Speaker 08

  Really?

• 3:53Speaker 07

  That was a cover story, yes.

• 3:54Speaker 08

  The thing with Epstein was he was obsessed with eugenics and creating his own race. Like, he would talk about his own DNA. Egg-shaped dick people, like that egg guy, you know? Right, so like, maybe...

• 4:05Jesse Michels?

  To figure out what the hell is going on here, I brought my buddy Jay Anderson on from Project Unity. He runs a great channel that's gone deep into UFOs, secret science, and ancient archaeology.

• 4:16Speaker 05

  Okay, because if they were taking eggs, they've got underground laboratories, right? I'm taken there in September. I think they've taken my eggs. They cloned a baby in 2002. No one ever hears about anything again.

• 4:26Jesse Michels?

  Perhaps one of the lesser-known threads about Epstein was his obsession with secret science. More specifically, his obsession with gravity and propulsion. He would fly physicists out to his island: Kip Thorne, Stephen Hawking, Murray Gelman. He funded Lawrence Krauss on the order of $250,000.

• 4:44Speaker 07

  I desperately want to know why Jeffrey Epstein knew so much about my work.

• 4:51Speaker 07

  And I want to know why he was connected to my graduate program.

• 4:54Speaker 02

  How did you know he was connected?

• 4:56Speaker 07

  You can Google it.

• 5:01Jesse Michels?

  But he was also obsessed with the Casimir Effect, a scientific anomaly that might point to some form of zero-point or vacuum energy. And if harnessed correctly, might unlock an entirely new mode of interstellar propulsion.

• 5:17Jesse Michels?

  On his little St. James Island, he built a temple with occult symbology, and one of his victims claimed to see a UFO while on Zora Ranch.

• 5:25Speaker 05

  I saw a UFO when I was there, you know, outside of New Mexico. I went to have a cigarette and I saw weird, like, lights flying. And then I had the weird thing waking up in the lab.

• 5:34Jesse Michels?

  It was like he was a front, a global honey trap for secret science, arbitraging the lameness of modern academia and the sexual repression of its scientists. Perhaps the weirdest through-line with Epstein when it relates to UFOs is the fact that former OSS officer Donald Barr was headmaster of the Dalton Preparatory School around the time that Epstein got his job as a teacher there. Remember, the OSS was the predecessor to the CIA. Donald Barr wrote a sci-fi book called Space Relations about a future where humans have formed an intergalactic empire ruled by aristocrats. Half the book is about this intergalactic elite class systematically trading underage sex slaves

• 6:19Jesse Michels?

  and often using them to gain leverage over other elites. Ring a bell?

• 6:25Jesse Michels?

  Donald Barr's son is a guy named William Barr, the Attorney General under Trump, who personally visited Epstein's jail cell after he died to interview his last-known cellmate, Efren Stone Reyes, who apparently expressed skepticism around Epstein's suicide. Reyes died conveniently from COVID shortly thereafter.

• 6:47Speaker 08

  This is the kind of stuff that gets you Epstein'd.

• 6:49Speaker 09

  There you go!

• 6:51Jesse Michels?

  We discuss it all: occult control systems, secret societies, mind control, Epstein, secret science, and we even bring our special friend along: Kurt Metzger.

• 7:01Speaker 09

  The only guy who literally didn't work with the CIA is Steven Seagal. Hey, why do Disney kids turn out how they do? Well, Disney, the [bleep] Rosicrucian that allowed the CIA to do stuff to them underneath Disneyland, and that's real.

• 7:16Jesse Michels?

  Insanity ensued.

• 7:18Speaker 08

  Maybe there is a subterranean species that has lived on this planet for a long time.

• 7:24Jesse Michels?

  Jay's expressed some frustration with UFO disclosure. He's also the only channel to interview a former director of the NSA and deputy director of the CIA on UFOs. But he's also more recently gotten into ancient archaeological secrets like acoustically resonant caves at Malta and skulls that look like gray aliens that they've found there. He's also as deep as anybody on the mysterious structure underneath the pyramids.

• 7:48Speaker 08

  Was there a golden age of aerospace before our history started?

• 7:52Jesse Michels?

  Without further ado, please enjoy this week's American Alchemist: Jay Anderson and Kurt Metzger.

• 7:58Speaker 08

  It's cool, man. The ADHD in this room is real. Like, I've got it as well.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Different parts of the brain have different activities.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  Well, you know that, don't you?

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Maybe you should interview me.

• 8:23Jesse Michels?

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• 10:36Jesse Michels?

  I'm here with Jay Anderson, Project Unity. I can't, I've been so excited to do this for years, man.

• 10:45Jesse Michels?

  It's good to see you in person, man. Absolutely. You've done some OG epic UFO-based interviews I want to cover. More recently, you've done some amazing kind of alternative. It's dumb that we have to call it our term. It's just archaeological, ancient civilization, you know, stuff. But for now, it's alternative. It will be the mainstream.

• 11:09Speaker 08

  It's getting there.

• 11:09Jesse Michels?

  It's getting there.

• 11:10Speaker 08

  Piece by piece, scan by scan.

• 11:12Jesse Michels?

  That's right. So I really want to talk to you about what the fuck is under this. Egyptian pyramid.

• 11:18Speaker 08

  You tell me, right? Like, none of us actually know, but it's looking interesting.

• 11:22Jesse Michels?

  It looks fascinating. And I feel like you're as close as anyone to the research team doing it. You were just with them at the Cosmic Summit. So, uh, thanks for being here, man. I appreciate it.

• 11:31Speaker 08

  Most welcome, bro. It's a real pleasure to be out in Texas for the first time. Like I said to you, after this, I want to try and find a place to shoot a few guns.

• 11:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 08

  Yeah. There is another person here that will be, will be revealed in time.

• 11:45Jesse Michels?

  They will be revealed in time.

• 11:46Speaker 08

  A special reveal.

• 11:47Jesse Michels?

  And I have a feeling this person knows where to shoot guns in Austin, Texas.

• 11:50Speaker 08

  Yeah, maybe you can show me your place, little C brother.

• 11:52Jesse Michels?

  But before we get started, I'm gonna pull a Sean Ryan here.

• 11:56Speaker 08

  Oh, okay.

• 11:56Jesse Michels?

  And give you a special gift. This is our American acme cowboy themed shirt.

• 12:04Speaker 08

  Hey.

• 12:05Jesse Michels?

  There you go.

• 12:06Speaker 08

  That is sweet.

• 12:07Jesse Michels?

  Pretty cool, right?

• 12:08Speaker 08

  Let's have a look at that. I love it, bro. This will be me on my next podcast. I'll be wearing it.

• 12:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, dude, ah.

• 12:14Speaker 08

  Representing and respecting.

• 12:15Jesse Michels?

  Let's go.

• 12:16Speaker 08

  Thank you very much.

• 12:17Jesse Michels?

  Appreciate you, of course. Um, so yeah, man, I want to start with the UFO stuff because I feel like you did some really important early work on this topic and people need to watch some of these interviews. You interviewed Oki Shannon, who is a lead project manager at Los Alamos.

• 12:37Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:37Jesse Michels?

  And but also was doing research with how it put off in the sort of vigilante capacity.

• 12:41Speaker 08

  The working group kind of thing going on.

• 12:43Jesse Michels?

  Exactly. When you're with a guy like that, because that was a great interview.

• 12:47Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 12:48Jesse Michels?

  When you're with him offline, do you get the sense that he knows more than he can say? And that, like, because are you, are you, is there a sense that, like, there is a reverse engineering program? And he just can't talk about it? And there's some sort of undetectable dark matter there? Or is there a sense that, oh, you've kind of fallen prey to, like, the public narrative around UFOs? And actually, it's kind of this other stuff that we don't quite understand. You know what I'm saying?

• 13:17Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 13:17Jesse Michels?

  You got the distinction there?

• 13:18Speaker 08

  Oh, absolutely, because like for me, especially kind of coming through this subject over the last few years, I will admit that a lot of it starts to feel like campfire stories, just sometimes campfire stories with a TSSCI clearance attached to it. So it's like, you know, like, yeah, that sounds amazing. But again, where's the evidence? Where's the actual like hard data for it? It's just a very interesting story from no doubt an interesting individual with an interesting background. But you know, someone like Ock Shannon, I mean, he said to me a few things. He said that their working group in Los Alamos National Labs, it was kind of like an informal group because he was part of the, what was it? The Theoretical Physics Group in the Pentagon, the ATP, I forgot the actual name of it.

• 13:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, we should give the context for the audience, the Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group.

• 13:58Speaker 08

  That's the one, yeah.

• 13:59Jesse Michels?

  And it's with Oki Shannon and Hal Putoff.

• 14:02Speaker 08

  John Alexander and Hal Putoff, yeah.

• 14:04Jesse Michels?

  John Alexander, Stubblebine.

• 14:05Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 14:05Jesse Michels?

  All these guys who are kind of deep, deep, you know, esoteric alternative physics.

• 14:11Speaker 08

  Right.

• 14:12Jesse Michels?

  And but also kind of, you know, they have real credentials.

• 14:15Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:16Jesse Michels?

  I mean, Army Incom, Stubblebine, John Alexander, I don't know, I guess maybe Army Incom as well, but maybe some DOE ties too, you know, a lot of like very intense kind of insider-y types studying alternative propulsion.

• 14:30Speaker 08

  Yeah. And I think that, you know, so you've got like this element where he was clearly involved in like maybe a formal, but certainly an informal part of his work was to look at the UFO subject. And he kind of looked at it as, he said that they concluded that they're interdimensional objects coming down into a lower dimensional plane. He attributed it to the book Flatland, where he said, you know, the idea of this spherical object coming down into a two dimensional plane, you're only going to see a cross section, a shadow of what it truly is. And he's of the opinion that that describes a lot of the UFO phenomenon. But again, like, you know, it's like very interesting ideas, interesting stories, interesting claims, but.

• 15:08Speaker 08

  I've yet to see any hardcore evidence either way for any of these things. And I think that's the issue that I've come to in the UFO subject specifically. And maybe that's what's promoted me to slightly transition out of it. Although I do think that ancient history has a lot of connections and correlations to UFO field.

• 15:22Speaker 08

  Again, collecting these stories over time is really interesting, but I just want further validation of what's actually going on with this stuff.

• 15:29Jesse Michels?

  Totally, man. It's, uh, it gives you brain damage.

• 15:32Speaker 08

  It does, yeah.

• 15:33Jesse Michels?

  It's a huge headache. And there is, truthfully, it's a far cry. A saucer and a hanger in some ephemeral interdimensional object are two very different things.

• 15:44Speaker 08

  Absolutely.

• 15:45Jesse Michels?

  And I don't know if these things are being, you know, conflated or if there are. The, the thing is, I was somewhat skeptical of the crash narrative, actually. And then I just visited a crash site and what, I don't know if you know Scott and Suzanne Ramsey are, but they're the deepest on the Aztec crash in 1948.

• 16:01Speaker 08

  Oh, the Aztec crash, yeah, yeah.

• 16:02Jesse Michels?

  And I thought that would be an interesting one to investigate, you know, as opposed to Roswell, which is obviously extremely popular and in the lore.

• 16:08Speaker 08

  Right.

• 16:09Jesse Michels?

  And I came in expecting to be like, this is the bullshit element of the UFO story. And honestly, dude, I came out being like, I think there's stuff to the crash.

• 16:19Speaker 08

  What was it that piqued your interest the most?

• 16:21Jesse Michels?

  There were, we went to the crash site and the, I mean, this is all filmed. The trees were like splayed out where a craft seemed to have been like drug through the thing.

• 16:31Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:32Jesse Michels?

  With, and this, this, this couple, Scott and Suzanne Ramsey have spent $600,000. Like, and they're the most salt of the earth, like, good people you'll ever meet. Like, there's no, like, weird.

• 16:44Speaker 08

  I think I did catch a Richard Dolan interview of them back in the day.

• 16:46Jesse Michels?

  They're very close with Dolan. And so spending that much time with them, then realizing that the, the story, like, how the story came out was this guy Silas Newton. They, they claimed that he was part of some like doodlebug hoax or whatever. But Silas Newton was worth $20 million at the time. Which, just for inflation, like, it's like, that guy doesn't need to hustle people on a doodlebug oil thing. Like, he was very successful. No, absolutely not. Yeah. And then you have these FBI files on Silas Newton and Gebauer. Right. Going way back to the, I think the 30s or something. And they're, they're totally redacted. So I don't know, you know, I didn't come out being like, I'm 100% sure, but it was, it was, it was eye-opening for me. Cause I was like, maybe there are these.

• 17:28Speaker 08

  I mean, I struggle, I struggle with like the crashing of hyper advanced alien vehicles. Maybe the disengaging through some sort of exotic scale away weapon system that we have or something like that. But I tend to lean towards that these are prototypes of our own work that are crashing and, you know, like happening all over the world, especially since it started kicking off, like you said, Roswell, 1940s, 50s, Cold War, exotic energy, T. Towns and Brown. Like all of these things happening, you know, because you've covered so much of that. Fantastic work on T. Towns and Brown, by the way. I absolutely love that deep dive.

• 17:58Jesse Michels?

  I figure it's a hedge, right? It's like, if you're deep on the anti-gravity and then you're deep on the, you know, the UFO stuff. Like, one of them has to be right. The anti-gravity stuff would explain it, right?

• 18:08Speaker 08

  Right, right. I think, I think there's definitely been an incentive to create a smokescreen and a perception that anything that's operating in the skies that's going against what we understand to be like the kind of like standard aerospace and aeronautical abilities is an alien vehicle. And I think that's a very convenient smokescreen. And I do think that, you know, a lot of the stuff, a lot of the talking points in this kind of 2017 to present day narrative from like, you know, New York Times all the way up to now is trying to create this incentivization that it's actually all alien. We can't explain all of this. We don't know what this is. We don't have this in our arsenal. We don't have this in our weapon systems. And I disagree with that entirely. I think they absolutely do have it. So I think there's probably like, I mean, I'm convinced that there is some form of non-human intelligence interface,

• 18:52Speaker 08

  whether that's dimensional and kind of bleeding in, or maybe even terrestrial to this planet and hidden, or actually a, you know, space visitor from another planet. I'm open to all of that. But I think that there is definitely a case to be argued for a massive smokescreen of classified exotic energy.

• 19:09Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I agree with you fully. Uh, one of the other, probably the craziest interview ever done in UFO space, not done by me, Ross Colthart, you, I don't know if you know what I'm about to say.

• 19:21Speaker 08

  I have a feeling.

• 19:22Jesse Michels?

  Bobby Ray Inman, who was.

• 19:26Speaker 08

  Highest level dude I've ever spoke to in my life.

• 19:28Jesse Michels?

  Highest level dude anybody can ever speak to. And they're like, that guy ran the government.

• 19:34Speaker 08

  I have, I have no idea why he agreed to do an interview.

• 19:36Jesse Michels?

  That was remarkable. So he was, uh, was head of the NSA.

• 19:41Speaker 08

  He was head of NSA.

• 19:42Jesse Michels?

  Deputy Director of the CIA.

• 19:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, CIA, DIA, um, I think the.

• 19:47Jesse Michels?

  Federal Reserve Branch in Dallas or something.

• 19:50Speaker 08

  Yeah, um, SAIC.

• 19:51Jesse Michels?

  SAIC, was that SAIC on the board?

• 19:53Speaker 08

  He was the head of everything, man. Like, you know, like the head hon show.

• 19:57Jesse Michels?

  If there is a legacy UFO program, that guy has a finger print all over it.

• 20:01Speaker 08

  Dude is like, well, yeah, like one of my, one of my guys is like a veteran in the US Navy was like, he's definitely like MJ 12, like, you know.

• 20:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, he has to be. If there is an MJ 12, that guy's on it. That's right. And I love the interview. The whole thing's hilarious because like you're doing this like autobiographical thing for the first like 45 minutes.

• 20:18Speaker 08

  You can tell I'm warming him up, right?

• 20:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, exactly. And then at the end you go, so, uh, you know.

• 20:22Speaker 08

  Tell me about the aliens.

• 20:23Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go, this UFO researcher, Bob Ochsler, called you.

• 20:26Speaker 08

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, I mean, in, in fairness, we absolutely smoothed it out afterwards, but he, he, he did feel a little bit like, um, he was brought in under false pretense.

• 20:35Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 20:36Speaker 08

  When I was doing some background research on you, I, I came across a fascinating little segment from a documentary. It was a segment of an interview that you had in 1989 with a man called Bob Exler. Do you remember speaking to a man called Bob Exler? Yeah. Yeah. And, and during, during this conversation, he asked you whether you believed that the recovered vehicles would ever be made available for technical research outside of the military circles. And, and your response to this was 10 years ago, I would have said no, but whether time has evolved and they're beginning to become more open on it, it's a possibility. So I'm obviously, correct me if I'm wrong, but it just seems like you're suggesting here that you're aware of retrieved UFOs being studied by the military.

• 21:17Speaker 10

  The answer was no, I would not, we're not, absolutely were not retrieved UFOs. I have high confidence.

• 21:25Speaker 11

  Do you uh anticipate that any of the recovered vehicles would ever be uh become available for uh technological research outside of the uh military circles?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  Again, I honestly don't know. Uh ten years ago, the answer would have been no.

• 21:43Speaker 11

  Yeah.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Uh whether as time has evolved, they're beginning to become more open on it, is a possibility.

• 21:49Speaker 08

  Uh no, I mean like, I told him that I wanted to talk about UFOs, but um and again, the way that came about was another buddy of mine who was a US Navy veteran.

• 21:58Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 21:58Speaker 08

  Had an old number for him, and so we called that number and it went straight to voicemail, and so we left a voice message just saying, well, he left a voice message because it's easier for someone like that who's obviously got connection to him to speak on my behalf and just say like, there's this guy who's really interested in talking to you. And uh basically like a week went by and we had nothing, and then my buddy was like, hey, he's messaged back. And it turns out that this phone number we had for him was an old phone that was like locked in a drawer. He just decided to check it on a whim. He hadn't checked it in years.

• 22:25Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 22:25Speaker 08

  Yeah, I know, right? And he saw this voice message and decided to respond.

• 22:28Jesse Michels?

  That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a crazy synchronicity.

• 22:31Speaker 08

  That's why at that point I was like, this man's gonna say the truth. Like, you know, this feels like it's aligned. Like, this is meant to be. Like, this is crazy. So I was like, you know, he wanted, he was the only guest who asked, and it doesn't surprise me for a pre-approved list, list of questions and talking points, like, what are we gonna go through? So I was like, you know, obviously I need to mention the fact that I want to talk about UFOs, but I started off with obviously like, you know, like the, his career background and geopolitics and national security of today and what he sees. And then, you know, at the bottom, I was like, and I want to bring up the, you know, twenty seventeen UAP discussion and everything like that.

• 23:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 23:03Speaker 08

  So I did say that, but I don't think he was expecting me to know about Bob Exler and actually have receipts and be ready to kind of come at him with like, you know, challenges. And I have to say that, you know, with all due respect to the Admiral, you can see the body language shift quite profoundly when we move on to UFOs.

• 23:17Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 08

  You can see he's relaxed, he's talking, he's enjoying kind of reflecting on his career and everything, which is an incredible career. I mean, my god, this guy is just like, you know, up at the absolute apex.

• 23:26Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 23:27Speaker 08

  But then, once we get into UFOs, even when I'm just asking the question, man, he's... It starts getting tight, he starts bringing his body in. And when I asked him that first question, he was just like, no, no, no, absolutely not. No UFOs, none at all, like no way. And then a few times during the interview, which I think must have been him misspeaking, but it was kind of strange where he kept saying, uh, I am extremely confident that there is no other life in our galaxy.

• 23:52Speaker 10

  I have a high level of confidence that within our galaxy,

• 23:59Speaker 10

  there is no other living life.

• 24:05Speaker 08

  And I was like, you know, solar system would make sense, but he said galaxy like three times.

• 24:08Jesse Michels?

  How can you be confident?

• 24:09Speaker 08

  And also at the end of this, he said something along the lines of, I mean, I don't think I've given you what you were looking for, but I hope you will listen very carefully to what I've said to you. So I have listened back and I'm trying to figure out what it was that you might have been like critically putting in. But this whole thing where he was like, there's no life in the galaxy.

• 24:27Jesse Michels?

  We should, we should send our audience off now to decode this interview.

• 24:32Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 24:33Jesse Michels?

  Message Jay, if you find any sort of meta messages.

• 24:36Speaker 08

  Yeah, cause I'm fascinated in what he was trying to say. I feel like he was trying to put something down that I haven't picked up yet, so.

• 24:41Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 24:42Speaker 08

  Who knows?

• 24:42Jesse Michels?

  Well, that, I mean.

• 24:43Speaker 08

  That was wild, yeah.

• 24:44Jesse Michels?

  So wild, so wild. But the Bob Ochsler call is so just crazy and interesting because you ha- you hear Bobby Ray Inman say.

• 24:51Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 24:52Jesse Michels?

  Like, yeah, you know, maybe at some point this will come out, but not now. And he's speaking so casually.

• 24:58Speaker 08

  Yeah, and there's a few, there's a few like news clips of Exler going on the news and saying like, yeah, well, you know, someone said to him, you know, do you think that this could just be fraudulent and fake? And he was like, well, Admiral Bobby Ray Inman convinced me that these were flying saucers from an alien species. So I'm pretty okay with that. And it's just like, well, damn, man, like he's like reiterating this over and over. A few people have said that it was maybe, uh, you know, misquoted from that documentary where you've got the recording. But here's Exler on the news a few different times, reiterating that Admiral Inman made him like absolutely confident and positive.

• 25:31Jesse Michels?

  And Ochsler seemed markedly more reasonable than a lot of UFO researchers. Like he, he himself was an aerospace engineer.

• 25:38Speaker 08

  Yeah, he was a NASA guy, he was a NASA specialist at some point. In his life. And again, yeah, very calm spoken, intellectual guy that was just being very matter of fact with it and just saying, well, no, I mean, from where I'm seeing, the Admiral essentially has convinced me that these are recovered vehicles that we're working on and, you know.

• 25:54Speaker 12

  And there's no way that you could be mistaken and it could have been an airplane, helicopter, or something of that nature?

• 25:59Speaker 11

  Well, Admiral Inman convinced me that these vehicles were not manufactured by human technology. So that's pretty conclusive for me.

• 26:07Speaker 08

  That's it. That's it. So again, I think it's, I think it's true. I wouldn't even go against the idea that there's been some archaeological finds from like, you know, the old world. I mean, I'm diving into prehistory right now and getting into that, seeing so many anomalies that are so advanced and so contradictory to our models. You think about things like the, the Vamanas of ancient India and like, you know, these stories that you have flying chariots. It's like, okay, was there a golden age of aerospace before our history started? Is some of that under the ground? I think even Grush talked about recoveries, right? The Italians recovered something back in the Mussolini days.

• 26:39Jesse Michels?

  Exactly. The Magenta Crap.

• 26:41Speaker 08

  I think, yeah, I think there's a case to be said for like archaeological finds as well.

• 26:45Jesse Michels?

  I think so too. Well, somehow it just feels somewhat arbitrary if UFO crashes only occurred 1947 and onwards because of nuclear.

• 26:54Speaker 08

  And only in New Mexico.

• 26:55Jesse Michels?

  And only in New Mexico. That feels like extremely anti center, egocentric and nation centric.

• 27:01Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 27:02Jesse Michels?

  Uh, you know, yeah, there's a whole field of forbidden archaeology, which you're kind of diving into, which this, all this megalithic architecture. And I'm, I wonder if UFOs, aliens and crashes are a part of that. I don't know. And I don't have any evidence, but it would, it wouldn't make sense to me that there would be this stark dividing line. Where it just starts in the atomic age.

• 27:21Speaker 08

  Well, it kind of gets back to like, you know, where, like, how do you want to look at aliens from the ancient, ancient perspective? You look at theological texts like the Book of Enoch, the Watchers, or the Anunnaki, or the Nephilim, you know, the ones that came down and slept with the, the women of men and made these like, you know, hybrid species. It's like, okay, a lot of different texts speak about this in variations, but there's kind of a similar theme of giant beings or some other type of being that came and interface with us. So that's kind of like how you might look at it from the ancient perspective and you see some of these megalithic stone building sites. All over the world. It's like, okay, humans aren't capable, at least from our understanding of history and capabilities at that time, we couldn't do that.

• 27:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 08

  So where does that? And especially, you know, not to get off on a tangent, but with the ancient megalithic sites like Stonehenge or other, other parts of the world, it's not just the engineering, it's the alignment, it's astronomy, it's mathematics. Some of them are even acoustically tuned to produce strange effects from reverberation. So it's like, it's a complex set of knowledge that is then globally represented all over the world. And that says to me that there was someone who really knew what they were talking about with a lot of different areas of, of science and engineering and astronomy that was putting this together and then inspiring people to do it all over the world. So whether that's an interface with non-human intelligence or just a completely different variation of human intelligence that we've long forgotten. I don't know, but there's a profound mystery there.

• 28:41Jesse Michels?

  There's something else. There's clearly the primitive to progress narrative that we're being spoon fed by like Steven Pinker and you know,

• 28:48Speaker 08

  BS.

• 28:48Jesse Michels?

  It's just, it's obviously BS. That's like obviously wrong.

• 28:51Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 28:52Jesse Michels?

  And you don't have to necessarily, you know, wholesale agree with Eric Von Daniken or something to say that like,

• 28:59Speaker 08

  Dude, even just taking like one foot off of the conventional path, you start going, holy shit.

• 29:03Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 29:03Speaker 08

  This is not right.

• 29:04Jesse Michels?

  Well, there's just no, yeah, there's just no way some of this stuff could have, could have been built. And so I think we have to like not necessarily cross the T or dot the I artificially, but like there's, there's something going on.

• 29:16Speaker 08

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 29:17Jesse Michels?

  Like that narrative is wrong.

• 29:18Speaker 08

  And it's kind of like, you know, it's like polar opposites of the argument, like the mainstream, who are very reductive and, and in their little refined channel. And then obviously on the polar opposite, you've got people who are like, it was absolutely built by the Nephilim or we don't know, we don't know that. But it's definitely a mystery. Like it hasn't, hasn't been addressed. It hasn't been satisfactorily put to the side. And there's so much of that, like whether it's history or, you know, the anomalies in UFOs, like that's why I kind of feel like they're co-tangent. They are connected together.

• 29:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Speaker 08

  You know, there's a lot of influence in, you know, the, the wheels of Ezekiel and these incredible visions that people have had throughout time. If they had it today, that would be a UFO experience.

• 29:51Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 29:51Speaker 08

  You know?

• 29:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, exactly. That would just be part of the modern lore.

• 29:54Speaker 08

  Presence that's been here throughout time.

• 29:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I think so too. Another guy that you interviewed, John Ramirez.

• 30:00Speaker 08

  Yeah, he's an interesting cat.

• 30:02Jesse Michels?

  Super interesting guy, former CIA.

• 30:05Speaker 08

  Yeah, GS-15.

• 30:06Jesse Michels?

  GS-15. And he's come out now, and I think on your show as well, saying that like, he's sure we have hybrid programs. Human-alien hybrid programs.

• 30:15Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 13

  And that's the word that Louis Alizondo can't say, that everyone's, everyone in the Pentagon is expecting him to say someday, is that we're all hybrids. Personally, I believe this is one of the core secrets. That's my personal opinion.

• 30:29Jesse Michels?

  When you hear him say that, are you like, you know, this is legit? This is CIA disinfo? What's your?

• 30:36Speaker 08

  Middle ground, man, like grain of salt. Like, you know what I mean? Like, take everything with a grain of salt. I, I, all respect to John Ramirez, and I'm not applying this to him, but something that I've definitely felt over the years of, you know, being thrown into interfacing with people in the intelligence community is they're really good at becoming your friend.

• 30:51Jesse Michels?

  Right, right, right.

• 30:52Speaker 08

  When you've got an influential platform.

• 30:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, sure.

• 30:55Speaker 08

  Really good at becoming your friend. And they're very likeable, and they're easy to become friends with. But, you know, again, it comes back to that thing of how much of this can be validated? How much of this has been evidenced? I'd say, you know, 0.1% of that, right? So like, John Ramirez, super interesting guy. I think he's actually genuinely passionate about the subject, and he's an experiencer. You know, you find a lot of these people in, in the agency, like, within the CIA, you know? It seems to be a hallmark of like, these guys who have got quite high up in the ranks of that particular agency is they've got like some weird ideas.

• 31:24Jesse Michels?

  Super weird.

• 31:25Speaker 08

  That's what they want, right? They want out-of-the-box thinkers. So of course you're gonna get people in these agencies that believe in all of that, but...

• 31:32Jesse Michels?

  But you expect that? Terry, will you catch you like?

• 31:35Speaker 08

  Bring Kurt in, Kurt, come on. Kurt Meska, I'm a big fan of this guy, so I'm so happy he's here.

• 31:39Speaker 13

  This is how I dress when I watch Jesse's show.

• 31:41Speaker 08

  Oh, I love it, man.

• 31:45Speaker 08

  I can see that.

• 31:46Jesse Michels?

  You're gonna get Templar over there.

• 31:47Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 31:48Speaker 13

  Oh, that figures in.

• 31:50Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. That figures in, that figures in.

• 31:53Jesse Michels?

  It was funny, I actually, when I met, I met Eric Mondanigan, and I asked, you know, on all these things, he was like, super like, you know, these crazy hand-wavy theories.

• 32:03Speaker 08

  Right.

• 32:03Jesse Michels?

  And then I asked him about the Templars, and he goes, "There are secrets that I cannot talk about."

• 32:07Speaker 08

  Mm-hmm.

• 32:08Jesse Michels?

  And I was like, I was like, "Really? Eric Mondanigan?"

• 32:10Speaker 08

  Well, you know, like a little...

• 32:12Speaker 13

  What's the word for? How to have that antique shop?

• 32:16Jesse Michels?

  Is that Eric Mondanigan has an antique shop?

• 32:18Speaker 13

  Yeah.

• 32:18Speaker 08

  You know what's interesting about the Templars as well in respects to Egypt? Just a little bit of quick trivia.

• 32:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 08

  Is that the Great Pyramid of Giza, you know it's eight sided?

• 32:28Jesse Michels?

  The Pyramid of Giza is eight sided?

• 32:30Speaker 08

  Eight sided, very subtle and it can be seen, it can be seen from above.

• 32:34Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 32:35Speaker 08

  But if you get an aerial of this at a certain point in time, you can actually see that instead of four sides, it's got these like indentations that create an eight sided pyramid.

• 32:42Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 32:43Speaker 08

  Templar flag is an eight sided pyramid turned into a 2D shape. So if you take the Templar flag and you create it into a three dimensional object, you get the Great Pyramid of Giza.

• 32:51Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 32:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 32:52Jesse Michels?

  You've interviewed a guy who is the modern Grand Master?

• 32:57Speaker 08

  I traveled through Egypt with him.

• 32:58Jesse Michels?

  That's Timothy Hogan.

• 32:59Speaker 08

  Timothy Hogan, yeah. Yeah.

• 33:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, you're plugged in.

• 33:02Speaker 08

  Plugged in, yeah.

• 33:02Speaker 09

  I went with Sir Timothy Hogan.

• 33:03Speaker 08

  I went, I was, I was brought into the King's Chamber by him personally.

• 33:08Jesse Michels?

  What's his?

• 33:09Speaker 09

  He's a real Templar.

• 33:10Speaker 08

  He's a real Templar, yeah, he's got his receipts.

• 33:11Speaker 09

  Well, I got some, okay, well, that's disturbing.

• 33:15Jesse Michels?

  But, but, but, but don't you guys think if you were, they're real Templars today? They wouldn't like dress up?

• 33:22Speaker 08

  Yeah, no, no.

• 33:23Jesse Michels?

  A like Kurt or B like Timothy Hogan.

• 33:25Speaker 09

  Well, I'm not.

• 33:25Jesse Michels?

  They would be like these like subtle.

• 33:27Speaker 08

  Well, I mean, like, it's like, it's like there's levels, right?

• 33:30Speaker 09

  Like, Gypto, uh, Agni, the baton of Egypticus.

• 33:33Jesse Michels?

  Fucking barrel.

• 33:36Speaker 08

  When are you doing your Egypt?

• 33:37Jesse Michels?

  There's Halloween costume level.

• 33:38Speaker 09

  I'm Zahi Hawass, did you watch?

• 33:40Speaker 08

  Of course, I watched the supercut, I couldn't do the three hours.

• 33:43Speaker 09

  It looked like they were arguing over a carpet.

• 33:45Speaker 08

  It was fucking insane.

• 33:46Jesse Michels?

  Joe, that was probably the worst podcast he's ever done.

• 33:50Speaker 08

  He said it, the next guest, he was like, that was the worst fucking podcast.

• 33:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and Zahi goes at some point, he's bombing, Zahi's doing so badly and then halfway in he goes, "I'm doing a speech in Houston."

• 34:01Speaker 08

  "Will you speak in Houston? Will you introduce me to the same Zahi? Fuck no."

• 34:05Jesse Michels?

  It's like, dude, I'm busy.

• 34:06Speaker 08

  I'm busy, I'm a busy guy.

• 34:08Speaker 09

  No, dude, it was like you're buying electronics at 42nd Street from Sporting.

• 34:11Speaker 08

  You know what's crazy about that is I guarantee you, he still walked out of that studio going. I did a great job. I did a great job. I've nipped that in the bud.

• 34:18Speaker 09

  Well, that's his job.

• 34:19Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:19Speaker 09

  His job is to go and do that.

• 34:20Speaker 08

  I won't lie, I'm like, like, like 50% nervous about going through checks in Cairo when I head out there. If I don't come back, bro, I'm gone. Like, someone's taken me.

• 34:30Speaker 09

  No, that's be like, you can't come in.

• 34:32Speaker 08

  Yeah, well.

• 34:32Speaker 09

  Well, don't think if you're on a major platform and you said anything, I mean, I probably destroyed it for you. I'm sorry.

• 34:37Speaker 08

  Ah, it's okay. It's all right.

• 34:38Speaker 09

  But I mean, he sounded like electronic.

• 34:41Speaker 08

  I put my passport details in. I got greenlit, so I should be all right, but we'll see how it goes.

• 34:44Speaker 09

  I worked for the Wiz when I was younger, you know, my many astral travels.

• 34:47Jesse Michels?

  Who's the Wiz?

• 34:48Speaker 09

  Nobody beats the Wiz, the electronics store.

• 34:50Jesse Michels?

  Oh, you worked for the Wiz?

• 34:52Speaker 09

  Yeah, I was a salesman.

• 34:53Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 34:53Speaker 09

  You know, that's how I developed my.

• 34:55Jesse Michels?

  And Hawa's felt like your manager there?

• 34:57Speaker 09

  No, felt, I was in Bricktown, New Jersey, but in New York where those store, you know, you don't mess with the Zohan movie. They sell it.

• 35:03Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:04Speaker 09

  They're like Sony guts. Sony guts. Okay? It's a very good eastern, uh, bizarre way of dealing with things, and that's how they are.

• 35:13Jesse Michels?

  You come, I show you.

• 35:15Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, and he's apparently, he's like, kinda sketchy. Like, he, he sells in a take on the black market. Like, but he literally profits off of it.

• 35:22Speaker 08

  I wouldn't be surprised. And you know what's interesting about Zahi Hawa is like, back in like the 1990s, I wanna say like 1992, he was, uh, giving a speech at a university in Cairo where he was like, there are subterranean labyrinths underneath the plateau. There are entrances from the Sphinx to the pyramids that will.

• 35:38Speaker 09

  You don't say.

• 35:38Speaker 08

  Tell us a lot more about who really built them. And then two years later, he changed his tune and has never changed it back.

• 35:44Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 35:44Speaker 08

  So something happened.

• 35:45Speaker 09

  So right there was Ali Hawa's?

• 35:47Speaker 08

  Also, did you know he was funded by the Edgar Cayce Foundation?

• 35:50Speaker 09

  I was about to ask if you knew that.

• 35:51Speaker 08

  Yeah, bro.

• 35:51Jesse Michels?

  What, so what's the significance?

• 35:52Speaker 08

  So you know Edgar Cayce?

• 35:53Jesse Michels?

  I know who he was.

• 35:54Speaker 09

  Sleeping prophet, Edgar Cayce.

• 35:55Speaker 08

  Yeah. And he made all these predictions about the halls of Amenti and the lost records of Egypt. So the Edgar Cayce Foundation funded Zahi Hawa's. So like, he started off on this esoteric, kinda truth seeker style funding and idea. And then I wanna say about 1993, after that speech that he gave.

• 36:13Jesse Michels?

  You think somebody like got you?

• 36:15Speaker 08

  I would not be surprised.

• 36:16Speaker 09

  Wait, hold that thought of Hazaari Hawas. You can apply that to most of the people.

• 36:20Speaker 08

  Yeah, for real, bro.

• 36:20Speaker 09

  That are like, why are you 180 degrees from the thing you said before?

• 36:23Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 36:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 09

  Oh, well, here's the reason.

• 36:26Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 36:27Speaker 09

  You're a compromise.

• 36:28Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 36:28Speaker 09

  You got, you got, got. Yeah, you don't, it doesn't have to be blackmail. It could be, well, how about I make you rich? Silver LED is the great Pablo Escobar.

• 36:35Jesse Michels?

  Right, right.

• 36:36Speaker 09

  Plato o pomo. If someone's telling you real info, okay?

• 36:40Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 36:40Speaker 09

  And you're talking about it here, um, listen, if you ever, remember Gary Webb, the guy that knew the CIA, brought coke into the hood?

• 36:48Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 36:48Speaker 09

  So the old black guy conspiracy that people, that I was dismissive of, they'd be putting crack in the hood.

• 36:55Speaker 08

  Mm-hmm.

• 36:56Speaker 09

  That's exactly what they did. And you know how I know they did?

• 36:59Jesse Michels?

  How?

• 36:59Speaker 09

  Because the reporter that reported it shot himself twice in the head.

• 37:04Speaker 08

  Hey, yeah.

• 37:05Speaker 09

  How tragic.

• 37:06Speaker 08

  Yeah, it happens, right?

• 37:07Jesse Michels?

  You look so ridiculous.

• 37:11Jesse Michels?

  If you wanted to stigmatize all the shit.

• 37:14Speaker 08

  Kurt Metzger, everybody.

• 37:14Speaker 09

  No, I want to make it clear, listen, I'll make it clear, I'm not a journalist, I'm not in the space.

• 37:19Jesse Michels?

  But you kind of are. Well, Kurt has a crazy story. We will get back to.

• 37:23Speaker 08

  No, it's cool.

• 37:24Jesse Michels?

  We're doing a survey level.

• 37:25Speaker 09

  You know some shit.

• 37:26Speaker 08

  Like I said, like, I'm fully pumped to have Kurt here. I love this guy.

• 37:29Jesse Michels?

  You know Kurt doesn't, doesn't remember part of his childhood because he was in the Gifted and Talented Education Program.

• 37:35Speaker 09

  Dude, it's just smart kid classes, it's fine.

• 37:38Speaker 14

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• 38:08Speaker 09

  Now I know a lot of esoteric stuff, it's not a big deal.

• 38:10Speaker 08

  Oh, you were in the same, what, teaching remote viewing and all that kind of stuff?

• 38:13Speaker 09

  I don't, I have no idea, I don't remember a single part of it. My brother sister in it, I asked my mom to like.

• 38:18Jesse Michels?

  And now he's super deep on.

• 38:18Speaker 08

  From what ages, from what ages?

• 38:20Speaker 09

  I don't know.

• 38:22Speaker 08

  They don't, your parents didn't tell you?

• 38:24Speaker 09

  My mom don't remember. If your parents, they go, hey, your son's got high IQ and you're gonna be gifted and talented. You think your parents give a fucking shit? They don't. They're like, woo. Everybody's conditioned for a pat on the head in this society. That's the occult prison that you live in. So you go, oh, I got a good, I'm an expert, me, right? That's our kindergarten, you know, the, the Prussian school that we use for some reason?

• 38:47Speaker 08

  Yeah, right, right, right, right.

• 38:49Speaker 09

  Fuck you think that is?

• 38:50Speaker 08

  Yeah, that's weird.

• 38:50Speaker 09

  Is that normal to you?

• 38:51Speaker 08

  That is weird, actually. Like, why do we have that?

• 38:52Speaker 09

  Because at age five.

• 38:54Speaker 08

  We don't call it that in the UK, but it's, yeah.

• 38:56Speaker 09

  Oh, it came from, so we have a lot to thank the UK for here in this country, certainly. Uh, definitely you do, uh, but our entire schooling system is designed to compartmentalize you.

• 39:07Speaker 08

  Right.

• 39:08Speaker 09

  Out of the gate. I mean, and I'm not telling you any esoteric secrets, it's written down openly.

• 39:13Speaker 08

  Absolutely.

• 39:14Speaker 09

  Cause it was the Prussian miracle, so they sent people from all, how did you get such control over your citizens? Because this guy found out that 70% of the troops, I always thought those old timey guns didn't really shoot straight. No, 70% of people don't pull the trigger, they miss on purpose. This is a problem.

• 39:30Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 39:30Speaker 09

  How do we fix this? Oh, you're with mommy and daddy too long. I gotta get you before that third brainwave you get that tells you what reality is? Six is too late. Me and Rogan talked about, Joe went to, went at age six. It's too late. You've already been imprinted with mommy and daddy now. Wait, he did a gifted and talented education? I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about kindergarten.

• 39:51Speaker 08

  Oh, okay, right, right, right.

• 39:52Speaker 09

  Okay, I'm talking about, if you go look into how we got our school system, it's real, it's, it's real weird. And, uh, the goal is to, so, uh, here's a, uh, 20 years ago, pre-k suddenly became a thing. In New York, you, oh, you gotta go to pre-k because outcomes are better for kids to go to pre-k. I didn't go to pre-k. My mom taught me to read at home and I went to kindergarten. Why is that so important?

• 40:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, mom.

• 40:15Speaker 09

  Because it's not working. We gotta get you away from mommy earlier so that the government can get its dick in your brain early.

• 40:21Speaker 08

  Family dynamic, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 09

  Okay, so here's some esoteric, real esoteric, and I just discern this like a regular manly pee hole. You got a right-left brain, so you watch these secular materialist scientists.

• 40:34Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 40:35Speaker 09

  You're Mike deGrasse Tyson and what have you.

• 40:37Jesse Michels?

  Neil deGrasse Tyson?

• 40:39Speaker 08

  Neil deGrasse Tyson.

• 40:39Speaker 09

  Whatever, nerd.

• 40:40Jesse Michels?

  He's just mashed up Mike Tyson.

• 40:44Speaker 08

  Now that'd be a sick combo.

• 40:45Jesse Michels?

  It would be a sick combo.

• 40:46Speaker 08

  Fucking physicist.

• 40:47Jesse Michels?

  I prefer Mike personally, I think he does more about.

• 40:50Speaker 09

  It's called steganography, shout out to DJ.

• 40:52Jesse Michels?

  Dark journalist.

• 40:54Speaker 08

  Yeah dude.

• 40:54Speaker 09

  Yeah, because the octagon thing I got off of him and Joseph P. Farrell.

• 40:59Speaker 08

  I'm trying to get an interview of him, I love Joseph P. Farrell.

• 41:01Speaker 09

  Okay, so that guy blew my, blew my mind dude, and I would, here's what's so funny about watching, because you're hitting on a bunch of it. I've seen your show, you guys hit on some good points.

• 41:12Speaker 08

  Thanks brother.

• 41:13Speaker 09

  How old are you though?

• 41:14Speaker 08

  Thirty.

• 41:14Speaker 09

  How old are you?

• 41:15Jesse Michels?

  Thirty-three.

• 41:16Speaker 09

  Okay, so you're still at the age before you figured out the scam yet, and by the time I'm forty-eight, finally old enough to serve in Ukraine.

• 41:25Speaker 09

  And when you figure out the scam, here's how it works, fuck you, you're forty-eight motherfucker. The thirty-year-olds still believe, there's new suckers for the thing.

• 41:35Speaker 08

  Believe in what?

• 41:36Speaker 09

  Believe in the whole thing, so now, all this UFO shit, what blew my mind, was when I looked into it, it turns out a bunch of this stuff's been disclosed over and over and over, like the wheel of Sam Serra.

• 41:49Speaker 08

  Yeah man.

• 41:49Jesse Michels?

  For sure, for sure.

• 41:51Speaker 08

  Ad nauseam.

• 41:52Speaker 09

  Yeah, but what you don't realize, so then you're like.

• 41:53Jesse Michels?

  But then what's the deeper truth, like, because I like, look, I'll watch, I watched Dark Journalist, and like, it's like ASMR for conspiracies that never resolve. He goes, do you know about this?

• 42:04Speaker 09

  You're in that same space, mystery school.

• 42:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I'll talk about it, it's interesting.

• 42:09Speaker 09

  J.J. Abrams' mystery box storytelling.

• 42:11Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 42:11Speaker 09

  You remember J.J. Abrams' mystery box method? He does a TED Talk about it.

• 42:16Speaker 08

  Right.

• 42:16Speaker 09

  Okay, basically the, the show Lost.

• 42:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 42:19Speaker 09

  And Scientology are the same basic thing.

• 42:21Jesse Michels?

  Mystery box, sure.

• 42:22Speaker 09

  You stick with it and get invested.

• 42:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 09

  And when, and then you get a shitty ending.

• 42:26Speaker 08

  Well, that's another thing is the influence of Scientology in the UFO community, because there's a big presence of like that belief system. Exactly.

• 42:33Jesse Michels?

  How big do you think it is?

• 42:34Speaker 09

  Scientology is the CIA that get it.

• 42:36Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, how big do you think?

• 42:37Speaker 08

  Well, I mean, like, you know, they, they infiltrated the CIA in a few different agencies.

• 42:41Speaker 09

  They infiltrated the IRS.

• 42:42Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Multi-agency infiltration.

• 42:46Jesse Michels?

  Kurt, shut up.

• 42:48Jesse Michels?

  Wisdom has been overflowing. It is, it is, truly. What's Operation Snow White?

• 42:53Speaker 08

  So that was when they did that huge infiltration of multiple agencies, including the IRS, CIA, with an incentive to try and promote psychic research and these types of ideas and prevent them from stopping it. Tax-free status. Yeah, and you don't know about this?

• 43:09Jesse Michels?

  I know about the fights with the government around tax-free status.

• 43:12Speaker 08

  It was the biggest infiltration of the government. It was wild.

• 43:15Jesse Michels?

  But how prevalent was it? Did it work?

• 43:20Speaker 08

  I don't think, well, they got caught. They got caught. So I don't think it fully worked, but it worked for a time. They managed to create influence and obviously they're very powerful. But I think that there's genuinely a thread of ufology that comes back to obviously Scientology. Go a bit further back, Helena Blavatsky, Theosophy, the esoteric school. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of these people in government, because when you actually get to know them or you find out more about them, you find out that beyond the tight suit and the bureaucracy is an esoteric person that's into the OTO or Golden Dawn or whatever. Yes, brother. So I think that what they're trying to do, at least in my opinion, and actually the guy that you wanted to hear more about, my friend who was speaking, he'd be able to tell you a lot more. He believes, and I would agree, that there is an element of the government that's quite radical, that truly believes in some of these old esoteric

• 44:03Speaker 08

  systems. And they're trying to essentially manifest the UFO reality into the world by creating a consensus of it, right? So they're creating this narrative, they're creating this push.

• 44:13Jesse Michels?

  Like an egregore.

• 44:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, like an egregore. Because it's just weird how you tap into these guys who are bureaucrats and national security, and then you find out that they've got talking points from OTO and Golden Dawn, and they're drawing pentagrams, and they're showing you the alchemist triangle. And it's like, you know what I mean?

• 44:28Jesse Michels?

  Matthew Brown, who just came out through Corvall and Nap, he's this guy, Maglo Constellation.

• 44:32Speaker 08

  Showing his enochian mathematics and shit like that.

• 44:34Speaker 09

  You see that? Okay, so here's how I got into my deepest esoteric knowledge. I was a... So I was watching the Charles Hall Tall Whites documentary. I just interviewed him. He's live? Yeah. I have a lot of questions for him. He's a trip.

• 44:49Speaker 12

  Couple of the guys that were with me who had seen them thought that they were ancient Egyptians who had somehow or another gotten into Indian Springs Valley and trapped there. And were still using their own hieroglyphics.

• 45:01Jesse Michels?

  Who thought that?

• 45:02Speaker 12

  Oh, a couple of the other range men, yeah.

• 45:06Speaker 09

  So here's, if you've never seen. Like a wind up doll. It didn't make any, that was weird. Oh, I think I have some theories. So Charles Hall. Now, when, usually when you hear UFO stuff. It, it's like some goofy like Star Trek shit. Right. And this guy, he made a real specific point that they're not here to save the whales. In fact, the Tall Whites told him they think it's unusual that we like ride horses and live, like they said on most of the civilized worlds to him. The species, dominant species kills off anything that could be a threat to them. Wow. You ever hear anybody talk that way when they talk about our space brothers? I haven't. The way he described it, it sounded like we're Guam or something. Right.

• 45:47Speaker 09

  Okay, now, keep in mind, if you talk to him, he's got a real aw shucks, but you, you just picked up on something with it. That guy's got a nuclear physics degree. So don't be fooled by country dumb. As soon as I'm watching, I'm like, so I'm laughing when I'm first watching because they're called Tall Whites. We're as strong as gorillas compared to them. That's a detail. Right. If you touch one of them, they'll kill you. Very weak bodies. Yeah. And I'm like, wait a minute, I've heard this before. You're telling me there's taller, whiter things that are

• 46:18Speaker 09

  that are doing the old British style. They show up and we're little ugly, like bee style monsters. I take exception to that. The story, it sounds like, like we're a Raj from colonies. Yeah, right, right. So all I do is look for themes like Diana Pasolka, I think she made this word up, mythemes, but I like it. That's the Legos, the stories are built out of. Right. And they repeat. So I watch everything, man. I don't just watch, like, I'm on a news show. See, and I notice where everybody that follows this stuff. Just the idea that you're wondering if you can, the intel people are gonna, that's because you're compartmentalized.

• 46:56Speaker 08

  Right.

• 46:56Speaker 09

  Remember Eric Weinstein, I don't know if he was with you on that video, but on Rogan, he goes, "Don't tell me it's compartmentalization." Why would I tell you that?

• 47:04Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 47:04Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 47:05Speaker 09

  Do you understand the pyramid structure that we seem to be obsessed with?

• 47:08Jesse Michels?

  Well, the ultimate compartmentalization would also be

• 47:11Speaker 09

  Your brain.

• 47:12Jesse Michels?

  These occult sort of, yeah, compartmentalizing a person.

• 47:14Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 47:15Jesse Michels?

  And like, there's a Terrence McKenna quote that I sent you, that's like

• 47:19Speaker 08

  I love that guy.

• 47:19Jesse Michels?

  Amazing, right? And you've done some awesome videos on that.

• 47:22Speaker 08

  Every lecture he's ever done, he like haunts my brain.

• 47:24Jesse Michels?

  He's incredible. And he says, you know, "A secret is not something that isn't told, it's something that cannot be told."

• 47:31Speaker 08

  Right.

• 47:32Jesse Michels?

  Which is like, that's the ultimate, if you want a control system or something, like that's the best way to create it.

• 47:37Speaker 09

  What you think the Templars got from their journey to the, to meet with the old man of the mountain?

• 47:42Speaker 08

  They got some shit, that's for sure.

• 47:43Speaker 09

  Let me throw out a goofball, a goofball hypothesis of mine.

• 47:47Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 47:48Speaker 09

  That I got after Rogan told me, intel people told, told him China was injecting their people, their kids were stuffed to raise their IQ.

• 47:55Speaker 08

  Right.

• 47:55Speaker 09

  And immediately I know we did way worse than that, automatically, because China did it.

• 47:59Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 48:00Speaker 09

  Okay? And so now we got one of thirty-two autistic kids.

• 48:04Jesse Michels?

  That's wild, the rate.

• 48:05Speaker 09

  Oh yeah, I wonder how that happened?

• 48:07Speaker 08

  Yeah, it's insane.

• 48:08Speaker 09

  Okay, you know, don't attribute to malice, where you contribute to incompetence?

• 48:11Speaker 08

  Uh huh.

• 48:11Speaker 09

  No, it's malice, my friend. And, okay, let's look at what, what are the features of autism, okay?

• 48:18Jesse Michels?

  Hyper-focus.

• 48:19Speaker 09

  Yeah. Hyper-focus, weird about sex. In fact, you could program them, tell them what gender they are, and they'll say, they'll believe it. Chris Chan, the Inverted Christ, is that, if you've ever heard of Chris Chan.

• 48:31Jesse Michels?

  There go our sponsors.

• 48:34Speaker 09

  Are you sponsored by, um, Sonic Yu comic books?

• 48:39Jesse Michels?

  I think we don't have to be sponsored by Monsanto to get them polled for this episode.

• 48:43Speaker 09

  You don't understand, they made these, they love all the products. No matter how bad you cock up Star Wars, they're gonna watch it and tears will form in their eyes that a new Star Wars came out. They buy those stupid vinyl bobblehead, whatever the fuck people buy. They're the perfect consumer.

• 48:59Speaker 08

  Cut.

• 48:59Speaker 09

  The goal laid out when they invented kindergarten.

• 49:02Speaker 08

  Who hurt you, bro?

• 49:06Speaker 09

  Literally the entire system I'm in.

• 49:07Jesse Michels?

  It sounds like something real.

• 49:10Speaker 09

  I went to kindergarten.

• 49:11Jesse Michels?

  Sounds like a beef.

• 49:12Speaker 09

  Also, I was engaged.

• 49:13Jesse Michels?

  Alright. Well, he was in, so this is interesting.

• 49:16Speaker 09

  But I don't remember nothing about, I'm not accusing him of nothing.

• 49:17Jesse Michels?

  Right, right, right. You have Jake Barber coming out talking about gifted and talented education program.

• 49:22Speaker 09

  He did?

• 49:22Jesse Michels?

  Well, yeah, he talks about it also in the context of, you know, Skywatcher and these sort of psionic assets. You know, it seems like the Stranger Things kind of narrative might be more real than we realize.

• 49:35Speaker 09

  It was called Montalk originally, and there is a girl that was 11. Did you know that?

• 49:39Jesse Michels?

  No, that's a real person?

• 49:41Speaker 09

  Yeah, you know, a lot of this stuff, so I sent you the link.

• 49:45Jesse Michels?

  You sent me, you sent me too many links to go through, I cannot.

• 49:48Speaker 09

  Well, they've already got you because you, look, here's what, when you said ASMR, this is why. So Nathan Reynolds is who referred me to Dark Journalist, and what I love about it is, I don't care about your production and all that other bullshit. I already feel that's a layer of a cult between me and what I want to know.

• 50:02Jesse Michels?

  Sure.

• 50:03Speaker 09

  So, and Dan's productions are low, he, he's holding up.

• 50:07Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 50:08Speaker 09

  That, that makes me trust him more.

• 50:10Jesse Michels?

  I hate you.

• 50:10Speaker 09

  You want me to trust people less? Good production.

• 50:13Jesse Michels?

  That makes total sense, but I just, I want him to map it out a little more clearly. Sometimes I'm like, there's not, I don't know if there's a there there. I will, I'll listen to the whole thing and I'm like, what happened? I don't really like, I'm with you guys on all the interesting esoteric. Yeah, you gotta watch everyone.

• 50:30Speaker 09

  And look, all you gotta do.

• 50:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's right, that's a fucking mystery box, bro, you're just saying it now.

• 50:35Speaker 09

  Okay, no, here's why, you can lie to me if you want, I don't care if you're an intel guy, I don't have nothing to hide and I don't give a fuck, so go ahead and lie, whatever, I'm gonna get data off you either way.

• 50:47Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 50:47Speaker 09

  Cause I'm gonna figure out why you're lying to me.

• 50:49Jesse Michels?

  Well, to be honest, like.

• 50:50Speaker 09

  It's built in the lie.

• 50:51Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's why, that's why the move in the space is like, talk to everybody, because I think you.

• 50:55Speaker 09

  No, it isn't, it's not, they want certain people, and I want to talk to people you can't talk to, and so.

• 51:01Jesse Michels?

  Who would you talk to?

• 51:02Speaker 09

  Okay, my friend Emma has a show called Imagination Podcast, it was on YouTube about MK Monarch, which the link I sent you has been acknowledged, I didn't know that, I'm obsessed with it.

• 51:11Jesse Michels?

  Tell the audience what MK Monarch. MK Monarch, yeah.

• 51:13Speaker 09

  Well, that's one of the successors. To ultra.

• 51:15Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 51:16Speaker 09

  Oh, oh, you're, you're King Charles has that little butterfly.

• 51:19Speaker 08

  Yeah, little butterfly.

• 51:19Speaker 09

  He's in a hit, his portrait in hamburger meat.

• 51:21Speaker 08

  That portrait is one of the fucking scariest looking things I've ever seen. It's just like crimson blood. Like, the whole thing is just wrecked.

• 51:28Speaker 09

  Burger meat.

• 51:29Speaker 08

  It's freaky, dude. And then like you said, little monarch butterfly. Yeah, yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 09

  And Lord Mountbatten and Jimmy Savile used to all hang out together.

• 51:37Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 09

  And they all had special black berets made. Now, that's not in the military there. That's a special unit of just the three amigos.

• 51:45Speaker 08

  Dude, Jimmy Savile was so influential in the UK that he was spending his Christmases at Chakras where the Prime Minister would spend it. And he would go in and out of Buckingham Palace. Jimmy Savile, he was BBC presenter, very famous, and he's the most prolific sex offender and child sex offender in, in the UK history.

• 52:00Speaker 09

  You know his victim?

• 52:00Speaker 08

  He, he, he was never caught during his time. He, it all came out after he died.

• 52:04Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 52:05Speaker 08

  He had written, do you know, had written on his gravestone? You know that?

• 52:07Speaker 09

  Well, I've not.

• 52:08Speaker 08

  On his gravestone, it was, it was fun while it lasted.

• 52:11Jesse Michels?

  Oh.

• 52:12Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 52:12Speaker 09

  Now, but did you notice with Jimmy Savile, now, at the time, when I saw this story, I didn't realize the, that he was like a wizard.

• 52:19Speaker 08

  Right.

• 52:19Speaker 09

  But then I went, his charity, because he did, they didn't know, it's like.

• 52:24Speaker 08

  Dude, he had a spare key to a child's hospital. He would like live there. It is insane.

• 52:28Jesse Michels?

  A hospital?

• 52:29Speaker 08

  Yeah, he had a spare key and he would live on the ward.

• 52:31Jesse Michels?

  Is it a true, is it just a demon?

• 52:33Speaker 08

  He was a demon, an absolute demon.

• 52:35Speaker 09

  Good friend of King Charles.

• 52:36Speaker 08

  If any of them exist, this motherfucker is a demon and he was good friends with him.

• 52:39Speaker 09

  No punishment for the BBC people.

• 52:41Speaker 08

  He could waltz into Buckingham Palace like he owned the place, man. And then you fast forward and you've got Epstein and Andrew. It's like, patterns.

• 52:47Jesse Michels?

  And then wasn't, isn't there like a photo of Kevin Spacey at Buckingham Palace?

• 52:51Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Rolf Harris did the Queen's painting, he's a paedophile.

• 52:55Jesse Michels?

  What, what do you, what, this is insane. What do you guys think of this Cash Patel going on Joe's show, being like, if I would have it?

• 53:01Speaker 08

  I've, I've heard your opinion, I want to hear it again.

• 53:04Jesse Michels?

  He goes, Epstein killed himself. And then they have Dan Bongino next to him on other interviews.

• 53:08Speaker 08

  Coming in in his sportswear and telling us what's the thing.

• 53:10Speaker 09

  First of all, number one.

• 53:11Jesse Michels?

  Athleisure.

• 53:13Speaker 09

  I want to make this clear, because this is how, how a cult fucking projecting yourself magic works. First, you reframe the argument wrong.

• 53:20Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 09

  I don't care if Epstein killed, we're not looking for justice for Epstein.

• 53:24Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 53:25Speaker 09

  Okay, so first they keep it on that to trick you, right? Now we're not even talking about, why are all the people that went there still in power?

• 53:32Speaker 08

  Exactly.

• 53:33Speaker 09

  Hey, Trump's in now. Hey, I remember QAnon. Where's all the arrests? Where's all the whatevers? Then I'll watch UFO shit and they go, oh yeah, they actually executed these people on the moon. Right? Oh, psyop time.

• 53:46Speaker 08

  And then you go like the discrepancy with Pam Bondi saying there's thousands of pages. They got this evidence.

• 53:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 53:51Speaker 08

  Capel saying this and it's like, whoa.

• 53:53Speaker 09

  Oh, I forgot Iran. I forgot about that.

• 53:55Speaker 08

  What's going on here?

• 53:56Jesse Michels?

  It's so wild. Yeah, there's a clear discrepancy there. And then it's like, it's just if you zoom out, it's so obvious that this was this compromise gathering technique in order to blackmail operation, in order to control things at the highest level.

• 54:09Speaker 08

  It makes sense. It makes sense.

• 54:10Speaker 09

  Who were they blackmailing? That's what we want to know. I don't care about the list. His client list is like, it's Israel, but whatever.

• 54:16Jesse Michels?

  I wonder, I kind of wonder if like the Elon Trump thing, I don't know.

• 54:21Speaker 09

  I believe Elon more than Trump because Elon's black eye and his, now I watch people say this. I can't believe how stupid this is. Oh, he must have been on ketamine and he rage tweeted. Is that what ketamine does? The horse tranquilizer.

• 54:35Jesse Michels?

  No, you have to believe that Elon believes that Trump was on the Epstein list.

• 54:40Speaker 08

  For sure. It was interesting.

• 54:41Speaker 09

  He said files and Trump is, we know that already.

• 54:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 54:44Speaker 09

  Elon gave us no new information. He threw out a shot, but he didn't reveal anything. Trump isn't it. Everyone who's in charge is in that file.

• 54:54Speaker 08

  But that's the thing.

• 54:54Speaker 09

  Doesn't mean they did it.

• 54:55Speaker 08

  Exactly. Because, you know, Epstein was like such a powerhouse in the financial sector that, you know, it's going to just be a given that people will interact with him in that world without ever touching the sides of what he was doing in the background. You know what I mean?

• 55:09Speaker 09

  Tuesdays with stories, Mark Norman, Joe List show, they probably won't appreciate me promoting it because they're gonna, it'll probably be bad, but Louis Black was on and blew the whole thing wide open. I've tweeted it. I repeat it all the time. Louis Black went to Epstein's mansion in New York with Bobby Slaton, my buddy from doing the nasty show.

• 55:25Speaker 08

  Right.

• 55:26Speaker 09

  I know that Bobby and Louis Black are not doing a thing. He was an influential New York billionaire in the biggest house in New, that's crazy rich. Okay, so yeah, all right, I've done gone all kinds of, dude, I met all kinds of people from this. Louis Black's story is so interesting. He walks in the door, there's a marker board where they go in and there's all, it looks like football plays or something. And Epstein goes, yeah, the Defense Minister of Israel was just here. We were just going over defensive ideas. And Louis Black says in the video, look. So on my Twitter, look it up. He goes, he got so creeped out. He goes, first of all, where the fuck was that guy here? Why would he talk to you about it? Why are you telling me this?

• 56:02Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 56:03Speaker 09

  Right?

• 56:04Jesse Michels?

  Wasn't it documented that Ehud Barak and Epstein?

• 56:06Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, they were picked up.

• 56:07Speaker 09

  And Bill Richardson.

• 56:08Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:09Jesse Michels?

  Bill Richardson, New Mexico governor.

• 56:12Speaker 09

  Oh, you talked to the New Zealand woman?

• 56:14Speaker 08

  I did, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:15Jesse Michels?

  Victims, right?

• 56:16Speaker 08

  Yeah, Juliette Byrant, I think her second name is.

• 56:19Jesse Michels?

  And what did she, what did she have to say?

• 56:20Speaker 08

  Well, she, she, she approached, she got brought in as a, as a young model. Like, you know, she was trying to start off her modeling career and she got introduced to them and, you know, flown out to the island. And from there, it was kind of like you can't go anywhere and you're now a prisoner. So she was very quickly brought into that, not as a child, but as a young, a young model.

• 56:37Speaker 05

  And on the wall, there was a big artwork of a woman being raped by a walrus.

• 56:42Speaker 08

  Oh, wow.

• 56:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'll share it with you if you want to, um, share it. The, the scary thing is that it's not really a painting. It looks more like a photograph. And the girl's lying on a glacier and she's got like ECG things here and she's being basically raped by a walrus.

• 56:58Speaker 08

  And she, alongside some of the other women, think that they were actually harvesting their eggs.

• 57:02Speaker 09

  They were?

• 57:03Speaker 08

  You know, like Zorro Ranch, where they were trying to, yeah, well, the thing with Epstein was he was obsessed with eugenics and creating his own race. Like, he would talk about his own DNA.

• 57:11Speaker 09

  People, like that egg guy, you know?

• 57:13Speaker 08

  Right, so like maybe, uh, maybe, uh, you know, maybe he was doing something along those lines with people like that. She certainly felt that way.

• 57:21Speaker 05

  Okay, because if they were taking eggs, they've got underground laboratories, right? So then nineteen ninety-six, they cloned Dolly the Sheep. They cloned a sheep. Nineteen ninety-seven, Bill Clinton banned use of federal funds for human cloning. Apparently in two thousand and two, they cloned the first baby Eve in December. So, right, I'm taken there in September. I think they've taken my eggs. They clone a baby in two thousand and two. No one ever hears about anything again. It's all on Sixty Minutes or BBC, one of those things. They were all talking about when a human's going to be cloned. Suddenly it shut down.

• 57:51Speaker 08

  I mean, it's very, someone like Epstein seems like he was very multifaceted. Like, there's an element to him where it was like, almost like your primary objective is comprimat, right? Is your primary objective is to, is to do that. But then he's using his money and he's like, I'm, I'm gonna create a race of my own people. It's like, this dude is crazy, like crazy.

• 58:07Jesse Michels?

  I wonder if, because. This is really, this is a full schizo right now.

• 58:12Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 58:12Jesse Michels?

  But like, so Charles Manson was probably an MKUltra patient.

• 58:16Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, I would, I think so.

• 58:17Speaker 09

  I would say definitely.

• 58:17Jesse Michels?

  So definitely, right?

• 58:18Speaker 09

  Nicholas Shrek maintained him in prison.

• 58:21Jesse Michels?

  Tom O'Neill chaos, and you have, you know, Jolly West, who's like running this thing. Had probably an office at the Haight-Ashbury Free Medical Clinic where, you know, Manson was always going.

• 58:31Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 58:31Jesse Michels?

  And then you have this kind of conversion of Manson from this kind of petty criminal to the sex god kind of cult leader, whatever. So there's tons of evidence there. Here's the trippiest thread of the Manson thing that connects with Epstein. That's so weird. So Manson would carry around a book called Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein.

• 58:49Speaker 09

  Did you read that?

• 58:49Jesse Michels?

  Sci-fi bestseller.

• 58:50Speaker 09

  I did.

• 58:50Jesse Michels?

  1968, great book. So, so he would carry this around, but Manson was illiterate. So, and then he models his whole life off this book.

• 58:58Speaker 08

  Huh.

• 58:59Jesse Michels?

  He, his son, he calls Michael Valentine or whatever, who's like one of the characters in the book. Jubal, Roger Smith is his parole officer. Jubal is the protector in the book. He calls him Jubal. He tries to start a race war, which is what they're trying to do in the book or whatever.

• 59:14Speaker 08

  The whole helter-skelter thing.

• 59:15Jesse Michels?

  Exactly, helter-skelter, yeah. So, so, so, so, okay, but let's fucking listen for a second. So, so, so, so this is what's crazy. Donald Barr is the headmaster of Dalton. He gives Epstein his first job at Dalton School, which is in New York, this prep school or whatever. And his son is William Barr, who's the Attorney General under Bush 41 and under Trump, who basically obfuscated fucking justice to get Epstein, you know, out of trouble. So Donald Barr writes a sci-fi novel called Space Relations.

• 59:50Speaker 08

  Okay.

• 59:51Jesse Michels?

  And this is really, it's about.

• 59:53Speaker 08

  New to me, this is new to me.

• 59:54Jesse Michels?

  It's, this is so nuts.

• 59:55Speaker 09

  He texts me, I read it.

• 59:56Speaker 08

  Right.

• 59:57Speaker 09

  It's unreadable almost.

• 59:58Jesse Michels?

  It's almost unreadable. And it's about this like human traveling to like an extraterrestrial planet. And he is sold as a, as a sex slave.

• 1:00:07Speaker 09

  Why is he going though? Do you remember why he's going?

• 1:00:09Jesse Michels?

  Why is he going again?

• 1:00:10Speaker 09

  To negotiate with the rulers of the galaxy.

• 1:00:13Jesse Michels?

  The rulers of the galaxy.

• 1:00:14Speaker 09

  To end slavery.

• 1:00:15Speaker 08

  Oh, man.

• 1:00:16Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 1:00:16Speaker 08

  He just becomes a fuck pet.

• 1:00:18Jesse Michels?

  Yes, and then he becomes a fuck pet. But, but how weird is that?

• 1:00:22Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:00:22Jesse Michels?

  Isn't that, is that not so strange?

• 1:00:23Speaker 08

  Exactly, like the connection.

• 1:00:24Jesse Michels?

  Maybe some MKUltra thing going on?

• 1:00:26Speaker 08

  Yeah, absolutely, I think so.

• 1:00:27Speaker 09

  Well, you just said about Stranger in a Strange Land that I did not know.

• 1:00:31Jesse Michels?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:00:31Speaker 09

  Um, so that was his programming. Uh, one of his personalities was probably illiterate, but MK Monarch, which they have admitted is real in 2024. I didn't know that.

• 1:00:42Speaker 08

  Hmm.

• 1:00:43Speaker 09

  Very clever NSA archive.

• 1:00:45Speaker 08

  How is Monarch different than Ultra though?

• 1:00:47Speaker 09

  Oh, well, because Monarch, the people now that you're like, why is Kanye so crazy? That's why it's the all your favorite Disney. Hey, why do Disney kids turn out how they do? Well, Disney, the fucking Rosicrucian that allowed the CIA to do stuff to him underneath Disneyland. And that's real. I don't know if you know about Rosicrucian.

• 1:01:09Speaker 08

  He was Opus Day.

• 1:01:10Speaker 09

  Their victims are talking.

• 1:01:11Speaker 08

  He was in Opus Day, like the, like the early Freemason, kind of like before you turn 18.

• 1:01:15Speaker 09

  They've all come together. I would say, yo, the last thing I saw of Gary Wayne, by the way, I'm not religious at all.

• 1:01:21Speaker 08

  Also, isn't it like Club 33 or something? Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, yeah, Club 33. Yeah, no, it's all, it's all there. He was a Freemason.

• 1:01:26Speaker 09

  Why are all our beloved movies Bavarian fairy tales? That's weird.

• 1:01:30Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 1:01:31Speaker 09

  Hey, Disney sucks now. Hey, it always sucked. Why are you pushing Princess Chicks still?

• 1:01:35Speaker 08

  Something that got me was Joe Rogan bringing up that scene in Pinocchio, you know, where it's like, we take them to the little island and you know this scene in Pinocchio? It's a classic scene. It's freaky, dude. It's like literally Epstein. You got these like, you know, villains sitting around the table at the tavern. And one of them, like the big banker, he's like, I know how to make a real bit of money. And he starts whispering to them and they're like, oh, take them to Pleasure Island. And he's like, yeah. And he goes, but, but they're just little boys. And he goes, well, they don't come back as boys. And they all start laughing about it.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  And I take them to Pleasure Island. Ah, Pleasure Island. Pleasure Island? But the law, suppose they? No, no, there's no risk. They never come back as boys.

• 1:02:28Speaker 08

  It's like, whoa, like, very symbolic of what we're now discussing.

• 1:02:33Speaker 09

  It really spoke to my subconscious and I wanna be famous now.

• 1:02:35Speaker 08

  Phew, right.

• 1:02:35Speaker 09

  So you got a masculine feminine side of the brain, which as the Templars will tell you.

• 1:02:40Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 1:02:40Speaker 09

  They tried to preserve the defined feminine Ashhtar worship of the fucking pagans.

• 1:02:44Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:02:45Speaker 09

  So, but, you know, Purple Lady, I saw her at DMT the first time, but not like a woman, but I, you know, you've heard of the Purple Lady. I believe that's my right-brained feminine divine side.

• 1:02:54Speaker 08

  Hmm.

• 1:02:55Speaker 09

  You're, this collective unconscious, that's the meat internet, dude. That's the original internet. All the tech freaks are gonna make an artificial version of every, so if you see a, we're gonna have brain wifi? That's how you know ESP exists.

• 1:03:06Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, it'll come.

• 1:03:07Speaker 09

  Cause they're gonna copy all the real, they're not gonna tell you about them, but they're gonna copy them to get back to Atlantis times. And so all this art, oh, could it be archaeological? Yeah. Oh, wait, could this be the Nephilim from the bot? Yeah, it's all of that shit. Don't you get the, the joke?

• 1:03:21Speaker 08

  It's kinda like, you know.

• 1:03:22Speaker 09

  They compartmentalized the names into like, different names. And you go, well, that's Bible shit, but that's UFO. You don't know what anything is.

• 1:03:29Speaker 08

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 1:03:30Speaker 09

  And that's why they're called Freemasons even though they don't build nothing. They build your matrix.

• 1:03:34Speaker 08

  Tom DeLonge, when he was, Tom DeLonge, when he was kinda doing the rounds.

• 1:03:38Speaker 09

  What happened to that?

• 1:03:39Speaker 08

  Early, early days of the UFO subject.

• 1:03:40Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:03:41Speaker 08

  One of the things that he brought up, and I don't know how true it is, so I tried to find some like validation of whether or not these statues really were outside SAIC headquarters, Science Application International Corporation.

• 1:03:50Speaker 09

  Dude, I've been wondering about that ever since.

• 1:03:51Speaker 08

  Those pyramids, yeah, so you got like, do you know about this?

• 1:03:53Speaker 09

  No, no.

• 1:03:54Speaker 08

  Yeah, these two statues, one's sitting there as a, well. It's cool, man. The ADHD in this room is real. Like, I've got it as well.

• 1:04:02Speaker 09

  All of them.

• 1:04:02Speaker 08

  Uh, yeah, like, everyone's trying to jump in, but, no, um, like, outside this, uh, tech center in, do you remember where it was meant to be? Was it in San Francisco? Or like, you know.

• 1:04:11Speaker 09

  I thought it was in LA.

• 1:04:11Speaker 08

  LA or?

• 1:04:12Speaker 09

  By where I lived and I wanted to go there.

• 1:04:14Speaker 08

  Right, so like, it was meant to be the old SAIC headquarters, and Tom DeLonge, when he was, you know, back in like 2017 doing the rounds, he was like, oh, you guys, you know, there's this place, uh, outside the SAIC headquarters where they got these two statues. Where you've got this, uh, Egyptian, uh, pharaoh sitting on a, on a like temple seat, holding a pyramid in his hand, and it says the past. And then on the other side, you've got. A kind of futuristic looking female goddess type pharaoh.

• 1:04:39Speaker 09

  Oh god.

• 1:04:40Speaker 08

  Holding a pyramid and it says the future.

• 1:04:42Speaker 09

  I forgot.

• 1:04:42Speaker 08

  Past and the future.

• 1:04:43Speaker 09

  Do you know Epstein said that?

• 1:04:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, like the new Atlantis, the new era, the golden dawn, right?

• 1:04:48Speaker 09

  Wow. Wait, you saw the clips from the Bannon Epstein document? He has 14 hours of footage interviewing Epstein?

• 1:04:54Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:04:55Speaker 09

  No, I use it for comedy on Kyle Donegan's channel.

• 1:04:59Speaker 09

  I can't remember what we call, we had a news show, it was really funny, and it was The Talk Down.

• 1:05:02Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:05:02Speaker 09

  Hollywood celebrities tell you the news and it's called The Talk Down.

• 1:05:07Speaker 08

  I like that.

• 1:05:07Speaker 09

  So we did like the more you know parodies because my boy Jason Berman, whoever from Loose Change back in the day, who was right.

• 1:05:14Jesse Michels?

  Oh yeah, Loose Change, yeah.

• 1:05:15Speaker 09

  He was right. I didn't think he was, but he was.

• 1:05:17Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's so funny, they're kind of admitting that at the highest levels. There's like a nine eleven, like people like, we need to look into the nine 11 file. Like Cash Patel and like Tulsi are saying that shit. That would have been, if you were to say this five years ago, you'd be called, you'd be laughed out of a room, any room you're in.

• 1:05:32Speaker 09

  Well, I mean, you'd probably be debanked.

• 1:05:36Speaker 08

  I feel like there's only so far they can go in investigations with nine 11 before they start blaming their greatest ally for it, right? So it's kind of like.

• 1:05:44Speaker 09

  It takes a village, you guys.

• 1:05:45Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:05:46Speaker 09

  Of course our best friend aircraft carrier was involved, don't forget Pakistan.

• 1:05:50Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:05:51Speaker 09

  You're talking about Osama, right?

• 1:05:52Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:52Speaker 09

  So Seymour Hersh released probably what happened and he's a impeccable journalist.

• 1:05:58Speaker 08

  Fantastic.

• 1:05:58Speaker 09

  Okay, I didn't hear of it. In 2011 it came out and there was so, oh, I think Zero Dark Thirty and shit.

• 1:06:04Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Speaker 09

  Which is nonsense.

• 1:06:05Speaker 08

  Yeah, it's propaganda, propaganda.

• 1:06:08Speaker 09

  He was a guy that was, and I went watching now that guy Shrek from Delta Force talk about it on, on things. He goes, that guy went dialysis, he, he crossed the mountains and got away. Well, first of all, he had to get away because how could we go to Iraq if they killed the guy that did nine 11? How could we go to Iraq then? Get it? You ever see the Tony Clausen speech? How do we get to war in Iran? That's a real speech.

• 1:06:32Speaker 08

  I think it's interesting that like, obviously you've got Rumsfeld talking about 2.3 trillion missing dollars from the Pentagon and it costs about that much to do the Middle East in an invasion. So it's like, is this a big money laundering operation? A lot of cash went flowing through this, like, yeah.

• 1:06:44Speaker 09

  Talk to Catherine Austin Fitz from HUD, under George, I think H W Bush.

• 1:06:48Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 1:06:49Speaker 09

  There's like 23 trillion dollars missing since 1997. And I know Joseph P. Farrell, that smart, that's smart motherfucker. He keeps track of financial crimes around the world.

• 1:07:00Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:07:00Speaker 09

  And he put together all these weird, missing amounts of money with fake bearer bond, but they're not. They're obvious like fakes. It doesn't make sense.

• 1:07:07Speaker 08

  This is the kind of stuff that gets you Epstein. This is the kind of stuff that gets you.

• 1:07:10Speaker 09

  Breakaway.

• 1:07:11Jesse Michels?

  Cra- craziest thing about Epstein that I learned recently is that, did you know that, um, Bill Gates' science advisor is the backup executor to Epstein's will?

• 1:07:23Speaker 08

  Doesn't shock me. Didn't know that. Didn't know that, but it doesn't shock me.

• 1:07:27Jesse Michels?

  How, how crazy is that? And he was, he said, he found out and then he goes, I was shocked to find out that I was listed.

• 1:07:34Speaker 08

  Whoa.

• 1:07:34Speaker 09

  Where'd he come from?

• 1:07:35Speaker 08

  Do you remember Bill Gates where he's like, well, he's dead now. So, you know, like nothing more to say about that.

• 1:07:41Speaker 09

  Who's his family?

• 1:07:41Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah, that's right. In that interview, yeah.

• 1:07:43Speaker 08

  Well, he's dead, so.

• 1:07:44Speaker 06

  Is there a lesson for you, for anyone else looking, looking at this?

• 1:07:51Speaker 00

  Well, he's dead. So, uh, you know, in general, you always have to be careful. Uh.

• 1:07:57Speaker 09

  That's a threat. I took it.

• 1:07:59Speaker 08

  Yeah, like shut the fuck up.

• 1:08:00Speaker 09

  A lot of people can be dead. That's how I took it.

• 1:08:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 09

  Because that guy, he's the grandson, of course, of like one of Rockefeller's fixers.

• 1:08:07Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:08:08Jesse Michels?

  What? Is that true?

• 1:08:09Speaker 09

  I thought he was a middle-class kid and Steve Jobs was a hippie.

• 1:08:12Jesse Michels?

  I think his.

• 1:08:13Speaker 09

  He was the other nerd.

• 1:08:14Jesse Michels?

  Dad was military, I think, right?

• 1:08:15Speaker 09

  Oh, you don't say.

• 1:08:16Jesse Michels?

  I think so. Yeah.

• 1:08:17Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:08:18Jesse Michels?

  But then he was, his grandfather was a fixer for the Rockefeller.

• 1:08:21Speaker 09

  Rockefeller, and that's where he learned to buy the press because as you know, Rockefeller, everybody hated that motherfucker because he's a piece of shit. And then they had the idea to do PR. So that's Bernie, the, the.

• 1:08:31Jesse Michels?

  Edward, Edward Bernay.

• 1:08:32Speaker 09

  The PR, what do you think PR is? The blackest of magic. Okay? They have big pharma'd all the cult shit. So the mind control part, okay? That's old, dude. That goes to Egypt, right? You got your pharaohs who were inbred like those LA bape dogs. That are like, stop inbreeding them. Come on, come on, stop doing that, right? A corrupt priest class. And I got some of this from Rudolph Steiner, if you li-.

• 1:08:58Speaker 08

  Yeah, I know Rudolph.

• 1:08:59Speaker 09

  He's very boring, but he has gossip.

• 1:09:01Jesse Michels?

  I think he's very interesting.

• 1:09:03Speaker 09

  He is because he tells you backstage, like how I would talk shit about a comic. He talks shit about a cultist. That's the juiciest, best part.

• 1:09:10Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 1:09:11Speaker 09

  Okay? And, uh, I found out all kinds of shit from just his gossip. The main shit is almost. I get off. No, I disagree with you. I think the main stuff's really interesting. Okay, all of these things are the same thing. Kabalah, so did you study kabalah? I can't say it normal.

• 1:09:28Speaker 08

  I wouldn't say I studied it, familiar with it.

• 1:09:30Speaker 09

  Oh, well, it affects your life deeply because all these esoteric groups that fraternities. You went to frat in college?

• 1:09:37Speaker 08

  Didn't have frats in the UK.

• 1:09:38Speaker 09

  No.

• 1:09:39Speaker 08

  That's a purely American phenomenon that I've seen through American pie.

• 1:09:43Speaker 14

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• 1:10:12Speaker 09

  Yeah, you've already got Oxford shit.

• 1:10:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:10:15Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 1:10:15Speaker 08

  I didn't go to Oxford.

• 1:10:16Speaker 09

  But you have it. That's where, so, but, you know, I know everybody's mad at Israel.

• 1:10:21Speaker 08

  We got that.

• 1:10:21Speaker 09

  But guess what? We're even worse and UK is the one that got that shit going back in the day.

• 1:10:26Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, well, we've got old school esoteric belief systems going on.

• 1:10:29Speaker 09

  That's right, and that's why there's no justice about Jimmy. People are mad about the grooming gang. Now, I used to write for Sacha Baron Cohen on Who Is America? Okay? The pranks we did. That's cool. Yeah, it was fucking awesome. I love that shit. Dude, I, I, I miss them guys. That was like a good, his group's like a band. They're not like a, right? So he does round tables like the Great Cecil Rhodes. Cecil Rhodes? Yeah, and so, so they picked me to write to stay on. They don't think that.

• 1:10:55Speaker 08

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:55Speaker 09

  And I got on with them dudes immediately, Anne Hines and Dan Swine. Those dudes, I love them dudes. And I really like Sacha a lot too, but understand he's old money.

• 1:11:04Speaker 08

  Mm hmm.

• 1:11:05Speaker 09

  He's Coenine, which is like real old money. Went to Oxford. The reason I got along with them is because their sense of humor, they're like smart ass. Smart kids, right?

• 1:11:14Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 1:11:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, he's, this whole family's super smart.

• 1:11:17Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:11:17Speaker 09

  Yeah, I'm, I'm Jersey Shore trash, but I, I can always go.

• 1:11:21Jesse Michels?

  Smart too. Gifted and talented.

• 1:11:23Speaker 09

  Well, I was in, I was, I'm gifted and talented.

• 1:11:26Speaker 08

  Do you know about the city of London within the city of London?

• 1:11:29Speaker 09

  Of course.

• 1:11:29Speaker 08

  Yeah, do you know about that?

• 1:11:30Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 1:11:30Speaker 08

  Oh, so like, the original city of London isn't the city of London.

• 1:11:34Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 1:11:34Speaker 08

  The financial quarter, which is one square mile of London, is called the city of London.

• 1:11:38Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:11:38Speaker 08

  And that's got its own mayor, it's got its own police force, it's got its own laws, it's basically like the Vatican, sitting in the middle of the city.

• 1:11:45Jesse Michels?

  There's some conspiracies about them

• 1:11:47Speaker 08

  Oh, huge.

• 1:11:47Jesse Michels?

  running financial flows.

• 1:11:48Speaker 08

  There is.

• 1:11:49Speaker 09

  Who would've thought?

• 1:11:50Speaker 08

  So like, there's a really good documentary called The Spider's Web, Britain's Second Empire, like, that will open your eyes to just how much financial corruption runs through London. Like, the Swiss have got nothing on us, man. Like, we really do run the financial sector of, like, high crime, and it's a...

• 1:12:06Speaker 09

  You read Anglo-American World Power, you said?

• 1:12:08Speaker 08

  It's, it's pretty...

• 1:12:08Jesse Michels?

  Well, you mentioned Cecil Rhodes.

• 1:12:10Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:12:10Speaker 09

  So that's why it's like this.

• 1:12:12Jesse Michels?

  That, that book, well, let's get into this, because maybe they dovetail, because Carol Quigley wrote this book, The Anglo-American Establishment.

• 1:12:19Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:12:19Jesse Michels?

  Talks about roundtable cultures, Cecil Rhodes, and Lord Alfred Milner, or whatever, and like, them having, th- those secret societies led to the intelligence agencies that we have today.

• 1:12:28Speaker 09

  What is it based on? The Illuminati?

• 1:12:30Speaker 08

  Right. Old-school Bavarian Illuminati, and like, yeah, yeah, Jesuit's heavily involved.

• 1:12:35Speaker 09

  He based his group on those. It's in the, uh, um, what's that movie that's pretty, they're pretty good, the first one, uh, Kingsman?

• 1:12:42Speaker 08

  Oh, Kingsman, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they drip that stuff right into those shows, like, for real.

• 1:12:46Speaker 09

  I'm a writer, and I study this shit, because I've got to make, I want to write jokes, and I want to, I want to fucking make movies, so I know sometimes they might be doing predictive programming, certainly, but understand, there's a dude like me that looks at this shit because you can find the best, because you got to write something new that you haven't heard before. That's how I could tell if you're lying to me. A lot of times, because you're telling me a, a myth theme is, Diana Bazooka calls it, "I seen this one, man."

• 1:13:10Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:13:10Speaker 09

  Weapons of mass destruction, I saw that 20 years ago. I could spot it now.

• 1:13:15Speaker 08

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:13:16Speaker 09

  It's not that I'm that quick.

• 1:13:17Speaker 08

  It's it's yellow cake all over again, like same shit.

• 1:13:20Jesse Michels?

  On that though, I I don't I I'm maybe a heretic here in that I think Tucker maybe overreacted. Look, I think.

• 1:13:29Speaker 09

  To which part?

• 1:13:30Jesse Michels?

  I think a surgical, whatever surgical strike Trump did is not the same thing as nation building in Iraq like we did for as long as.

• 1:13:38Speaker 09

  Shot for shot.

• 1:13:39Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:13:39Jesse Michels?

  Sure, but like.

• 1:13:41Speaker 09

  Wait, wait, that's three years before. Do you understand what the implications of that?

• 1:13:44Jesse Michels?

  But let's not get into some meta layer. I'm just saying like on a basic geopolitical level.

• 1:13:49Speaker 08

  Fucking Matrix, man.

• 1:13:50Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure that that was like a bad move and didn't set their program back for a while.

• 1:13:56Speaker 09

  Levels. Do you know this? There's eight levels of top secret above the president and the reason for that is.

• 1:14:01Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:14:02Speaker 09

  Yeah, well, most people don't, but.

• 1:14:03Jesse Michels?

  Well, I don't think you know that.

• 1:14:05Speaker 08

  Highest is highest is nuclear.

• 1:14:06Speaker 09

  Why? Why? Did I not? Did I not wear the the robes of a wise man?

• 1:14:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, that's true. That's true. You are.

• 1:14:13Speaker 09

  Am I not holding the baton Egypticus? Why would you think I don't know that? Well, I do know that and you do because you read that book. Uh, Carol Quigley was given cosmic level clearance to go to the, as Douglas Murray says, have you been to the archive? He's been. He's been.

• 1:14:32Jesse Michels?

  He's definitely a spooky guy. Carol Quigley also is a professor at Georgetown who Bill Clinton said defined his worldview more than anybody else.

• 1:14:39Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:39Jesse Michels?

  So so the city of, so if you if you go through that thread, Anglo American establishment to today, do you think the city of London still has like? They thought the Vatican, City of London, do you think any of these groups, you know, Knights of Malta, you've done a lot of amazing work in Malta?

• 1:14:53Speaker 09

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:54Jesse Michels?

  Do you think any of these groups have disproportionate power today?

• 1:15:00Speaker 08

  Yeah, like. There you go. There you go. Yeah.

• 1:15:05Speaker 09

  Oh, I wonder.

• 1:15:06Speaker 08

  I would agree with Kursloff, like, I mean.

• 1:15:08Speaker 09

  Holy shit.

• 1:15:09Speaker 08

  Yeah, like England.

• 1:15:11Speaker 09

  Oh, I wonder if they do.

• 1:15:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, I'm I'm asking Jack.

• 1:15:15Speaker 08

  England, England is such an old country, man. I think we're just very good at being quiet with the amount of influence and power that we have. How many crab claws have you had, brother?

• 1:15:27Speaker 09

  Three claw podcast.

• 1:15:28Speaker 08

  Three claws down and I haven't even had one. You didn't even bring me one. What the fuck?

• 1:15:34Speaker 09

  Okay, do you think-

• 1:15:35Speaker 08

  Bring the crab claws out, bust them out. I wanna be on your wavelength right now, I wanna be on your bandwidth.

• 1:15:40Speaker 09

  You should have.

• 1:15:40Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:15:41Speaker 09

  I got one more, I don't want it, you can have it.

• 1:15:42Speaker 08

  I'll have it.

• 1:15:44Speaker 09

  Yeah. How many white claws have you gone through this morning?

• 1:15:46Speaker 08

  Oh yeah, white claw, that's it, not crab.

• 1:15:48Speaker 09

  I'm gonna start a podcast called, "Do you hear yourself?" Do you think the secret societies are the most popular, the most powerful people who ever lived? I think- Have undue influence? Oh, I wonder.

• 1:15:59Jesse Michels?

  But you know what, you know what, it's easy to say-

• 1:16:02Speaker 09

  Because it's the truth?

• 1:16:03Jesse Michels?

  Well, no, it's really easy to be hand wavy about this stuff. And then it's much harder, and this is my criticism of dark journalists, to actually understand how any of this stuff works.

• 1:16:12Speaker 08

  And sometimes-

• 1:16:12Jesse Michels?

  I don't think I have a really great map of the world. I suspect that some of this stuff exists, but I think asking these questions is very of value.

• 1:16:19Speaker 08

  And sometimes you gotta ask an obvious question for people that don't know.

• 1:16:22Jesse Michels?

  You do, exactly.

• 1:16:23Speaker 09

  I watch your show, and I appreciate you having me on, brother, and I hope you understand that.

• 1:16:27Jesse Michels?

  No, I do.

• 1:16:27Speaker 09

  I just think it's important that people understand, if you think they wouldn't do that, they would do that. History tells you they would do that. Whatever you think they wouldn't do, not only would they do it, they did worse already.

• 1:16:40Speaker 08

  And I think that when it comes to somewhere like the UK, when it comes to somewhere like the UK, you know, we're very, we're very good at being kind of diplomatically quiet in terms of influence. So a lot of people would say, "Oh, you know, the British Empire, it's done, like, that was a long time ago." It's like, not so much, actually, not with the financial element at play. So I'd say that we hold a lot of influence over the financial, kind of like, you know, global market. A lot of bad money flows right into London, and then like, yeah, the City of London, this weird kind of like financial sector. Like I said, they've got their own mayor, they've also got the only unelected members who can go into Parliament called the Remembrancer. This guy called- Yeah, for real, right? For real, the Remembrancer-

• 1:17:18Speaker 09

  What is this?

• 1:17:18Speaker 08

  So he's an individual, or she, who works for the Corporation of the City of London. That is older than London, okay, so that's like the OG. So that's kind of like, you've got the financial sector, you've got the City of London financial sector, the beating heart of that is the Corporation of London. Very dystopian stuff, right? And so the Remembrancer, what a title, right? Will go into Parliament and sit and listen, and then report back to the Corporation, and they'll make a decision if they're actually gonna pass that. That's a real government, behind the government, you know?

• 1:17:46Speaker 09

  So, interesting. They're a human, they're a Mentat from Dune, is what you're telling me.

• 1:17:50Speaker 08

  Pretty much, yeah. It's the same kind of a vibe.

• 1:17:54Speaker 09

  You know about Lake Havasu?

• 1:17:55Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I played that game.

• 1:17:56Speaker 09

  London Bridge is in Lake Havasu?

• 1:17:58Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:17:59Speaker 09

  So you know these?

• 1:17:59Speaker 08

  Yeah, they moved it. They moved London Bridge. They took, yeah, they took London Bridge to America and built it, Lake Havasu.

• 1:18:07Speaker 09

  Lake Havasu is just like the old city of London.

• 1:18:09Speaker 08

  Yeah, man. And Freemasons laid the first stones in Lake Havasu, like for that.

• 1:18:13Speaker 09

  Well, Knights of Columbus is the controlling interest and the reason they brought that bridge is because there's kids' walls up in it and it's a negatively charged lot.

• 1:18:21Speaker 08

  My god, I don't know about that.

• 1:18:23Speaker 09

  Oh, yes. Well, Nathan Reynolds, go check him out. See, I started, here's what I do, because I'm on a new show, okay? So I'm looking at the current events.

• 1:18:32Jesse Michels?

  What's your show?

• 1:18:33Speaker 09

  Jimmy Dore. I'm on it. I'm a sidekick of Jimmy Dore.

• 1:18:34Jesse Michels?

  Oh, you're on Jimmy Dore, okay.

• 1:18:36Speaker 09

  Okay, so I'm getting actual news that nobody's getting because all the channels that people think are news are literally propaganda for the one guy who's president at the time. So Fox is entirely for Trump. I know your boomer parents watch it. They can.

• 1:18:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:18:52Speaker 09

  It's, it's a program Trump.

• 1:18:54Speaker 08

  Of course.

• 1:18:55Speaker 09

  MSNBC was for, for super brain Biden. Okay, well, I want to see Morning Joe. That's, it's all for one guy and they're a bloodline with the British.

• 1:19:05Speaker 08

  I will, I will say that, like, from a British.

• 1:19:08Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Jesse Michels?

  Bury the lead, bloodline with the British.

• 1:19:10Speaker 08

  From a, from a British perspective, like, ah, propaganda is a bit more nuanced and subtle than the Americans.

• 1:19:17Speaker 09

  Used to be.

• 1:19:18Speaker 08

  From, well, I would, I would argue it still is. And the, you know, when you look at CNN and NBC, like, at least from my perspective, it's like, well, you can tell that they're drenched in bias. This is just political talking points.

• 1:19:30Speaker 09

  You've been stuck on a tarmac too?

• 1:19:31Speaker 08

  Yeah, bro. Well, that's what I'm saying though. It's like, it feels like, like the BBC, for example, they're fucking clever, man. Like, they'll drip it in very subtly, you know, and this lovely British accent. So you really feel like you're being informed, but it's the exact same thing. It's just a little bit more subtle.

• 1:19:45Jesse Michels?

  Do you see, speaking of which, you see this Wall Street Journal article about the UFO stuff?

• 1:19:50Speaker 08

  Yeah, man. Like, again, I feel like there's a mix of, like, some actual truth to what they're saying and also, you know, an incentive to try and kind of like disrupt what's going on in the UAP conversation. But I would, I would argue that there is definitely a level. Level of like, you know, bringing people in. Again, it comes back to this campfire story thing like how many, no offence, but how many whistleblowers have got up and gone like, yeah, I was told this, I was told this, I was told that, I was told this. You didn't see shit, you didn't know that, you didn't see it. So you've been told this by who? By Lou, by Chris, by Gary Nolan, by whoever it might be. And it's like, where's the seed? I want to trace the seed back to the origin point. And where, where's the actual information? Because whenever you ask these guys, they got told it by another GS15 or another high level. Yeah, well, I'm friends with his cousin. They fucking hate each other. John Warner the fifth.

• 1:20:34Speaker 08

  Yeah, John Warner the fifth. Yeah, I know, right? He's a classic character. He's great.

• 1:20:37Speaker 09

  Melon has the X protect file.

• 1:20:39Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:20:39Speaker 09

  What, what happened to Academy of the Stars? Where'd that go?

• 1:20:42Speaker 08

  Yeah, exactly. I was talking about this not that long ago, like To the Stars Academy, that's, you know, Tom DeLonge, I feel got thrown under the bus. He was what they would call a useful idiot. No offence to the guy. Yeah, like, you know, he was all excited and I'll, I'll quickly, do you know how he initially started this? Like Tom DeLonge?

• 1:20:58Speaker 09

  He spent his personal fortune to find out.

• 1:20:59Speaker 08

  Well, didn't he? No, he, he performed at a Lockheed, like, holiday party or something. Yeah. So he's always been involved in like the, you know, the UFO subject because he's got the money and the connections. He actually knew a dude at Lockheed Martin who was like, there's like a family and friends meetup happening. Would you be interested in introducing the bosses onto the stage? And he was like, I want 10 minutes with your boss afterwards, but yeah. And that's when he had, right? So you're literally right. So he walks into Lockheed Martin. And then he gets taken, you know, through the classified facilities to a meeting room where he sits down with the big bosses, skunk works, all this stuff. And he pitches to the Stars Academy and he was saying on the radio, you know, you have to go and be of service. I wanted to be of service. So he basically went in there and was like, here's a template. I am your medium into the public, into the, you know, the youth of today.

• 1:21:42Speaker 08

  Use me however you like. And one thing I'll say real quick is that despite the controversy, and I wouldn't say I trust this guy a hundred percent, but Stephen Greer was kicking down doors at that point. He had like, you know, six million, seven million views on Netflix. He's talking about unacknowledged special access programs, illegal programs, real repercussions that need to happen. This is an uncontrollable asset who's out there making noise. Suddenly Tom DeLonge turns up to the heartland of classified security, right? Lockheed Martin. And he's like, guys, use me. Here's what I want to do. Tell me what you want to do. Suddenly To the Stars, suddenly Lou Elizondo, suddenly Chris Mellon, suddenly the New York Times. And it just feels like they were like, this is the opportunity we needed. There's a disruptive guy out there who's giving this narrative about. Illegal programs, it's gonna cause trouble for us.

• 1:22:27Speaker 08

  Suddenly, here's a really famous guy who's got a link straight to the youth of today. And he's saying, we can fucking model it ourselves.

• 1:22:33Jesse Michels?

  There's an email, I think, between him and Podesta, where he's like, yeah, yeah, between Delong.

• 1:22:38Speaker 08

  They were tight, on Podesta, they were tight.

• 1:22:40Jesse Michels?

  This came out on WikiLeaks and Delong is like, I want to, you know, give the truth, but I also want, you know, I don't want people to, I want the government to be portrayed as cool or something.

• 1:22:52Speaker 08

  So these emails that came out, yeah, dude, dude, so on WikiLeaks, what's interesting is they are gone. I've tried to find these WikiLeaks emails where he's talking about Edgar Mitchell and something, people scraped it. But they're 404 on the website. Every single one about Tom Delong interfacing with Podesta and people like that. But back in the day, bro, he was literally saying to Podesta on emails, like, I really wanna try and get the youth of today to be more pro-military, more pro-government, and this is how we're gonna do it. And so the Secret Machines books and the TV series was all about trying to build confidence back into the institution.

• 1:23:23Jesse Michels?

  And yet, and yet, and yet, I look at the people he was talking to, Neil McCaslin, Steve Justice, where I'm like.

• 1:23:29Speaker 08

  Where'd Steve Justice go? Where'd Steve Justice go? You know what I mean?

• 1:23:33Jesse Michels?

  And I share your frustration around the Campfire Story stuff, but I'm like, these guys are high-level dudes. And like, I don't think they would.

• 1:23:41Speaker 08

  Like I said, Campfire Stories was a TSSCI clearance attack, right?

• 1:23:44Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, totally, totally. And I don't, I don't think they would be spending this much time with the frontman of Blink 182. If there wasn't something.

• 1:23:53Speaker 08

  But that's what I'm saying, where's the seed? What I wanna know, where that kernel of actual data exists, that they're then echoing back into these circles of people who are like, well, I got told by Lou and Lou told me this. It's like, right, so who told him and where does he find it? Go for it.

• 1:24:06Speaker 09

  So MK Monarch, the thing that they have admitted was real. Now try to stay on it.

• 1:24:12Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:12Speaker 09

  Most of your favorite star, I think really the only actor who didn't work with the CIA is probably Steven Seagal. The only guy who literally didn't work with the CIA is Steven Seagal. But in the program, which is the continuation of MKUltra, Tom Delong's family, are they not Air Force?

• 1:24:27Speaker 08

  Yeah, he's got intelligence backgrounds and actually.

• 1:24:29Speaker 09

  Like Willie Schreiber?

• 1:24:30Speaker 08

  Yeah, no, another member of the band as well, actually helped this. I'm not gonna remember it, but I found this out and was like, what? So then another member of Blink 182 had family members in the in the intelligence community and he actually helped with something in the military in the IC. It was like some software or programming or something he would he helped with. So there's two IC mill connections in Blink 182.

• 1:24:52Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 1:24:52Speaker 08

  Tom DeLonge and this other guy, I think the bassist, but I can't remember. Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 09

  It's like all the rock stars of the sixties.

• 1:24:56Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude, it is weird. It is.

• 1:24:58Speaker 09

  It's like all of them.

• 1:24:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, in the sixties, yeah. Your brain.

• 1:25:01Speaker 09

  Monarch.

• 1:25:03Speaker 08

  But it's just, I don't know, like, you know, did did did Tom DeLonge have a natural interest, natural money?

• 1:25:08Jesse Michels?

  I think he did.

• 1:25:08Speaker 08

  And then and then he got brought in and got fucked around.

• 1:25:10Speaker 09

  Did you hear your story?

• 1:25:11Speaker 08

  You know, that's what it feels like.

• 1:25:12Speaker 09

  I wanna be used by you.

• 1:25:14Jesse Michels?

  Well, I hear I hear stories.

• 1:25:16Speaker 08

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:25:16Speaker 09

  But I think that is not programmed into him because he's from an early age from one of them families.

• 1:25:21Speaker 08

  Right, right. I wanna be of service. Yeah.

• 1:25:23Jesse Michels?

  For sure. But then I hear I hear stories of, you know, people like Neil McCaslin, who ran, I think, the AFRL, Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright-Patt and stuff. Like, serious dudes taking Peter Lavenda's work. So Peter Lavenda co-wrote, you know, this book with Tom DeLonge.

• 1:25:38Speaker 08

  Going back to the occult and like, you know.

• 1:25:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it goes back to the occult and the grimoire and all sorts of things, like very seriously. And I don't know what to think of it. Cause I like, I'm like, like even my own relationship with the sort of more esoteric elements of this stuff is like, I find it fascinating.

• 1:25:52Speaker 08

  Oh, me too.

• 1:25:52Jesse Michels?

  But it's it's definitely, to the extent it's entangled with reality, it's very, it's inherently like sort of covert and occult means hidden, you know?

• 1:26:00Speaker 08

  There's definitely a, there's definitely a gnostic theme running through a lot of these guys, like, you know, the what they believe in and this idea of the archons and even Tom DeLonge on like two 2016.

• 1:26:09Jesse Michels?

  I got breakfast with Tom DeLonge and he told me that he thought these were like archons.

• 1:26:13Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:13Jesse Michels?

  And there's like, you know, in in gnostic tradition, you have a demiurge that's a lower god that controls the material world.

• 1:26:19Speaker 08

  Popeteer of our reality and then the gods of that reality, the archons, who kind of like recycle us back into the soup of reincarnation. Yeah.

• 1:26:25Speaker 09

  Have you ever thought of scaling that down and applying the archon title to your human leaders?

• 1:26:30Speaker 08

  Right, no.

• 1:26:30Speaker 09

  Who call themselves that because they think it's their. Divine right to do that to you.

• 1:26:35Speaker 08

  Yeah, I would say it's a very similar type of a thing. And then like, you know, you look at Tom DeLonge was like so excitedly talking in 2016 on the radio about this when someone asked about the Archons. And he was like, yeah, dude, like, we've been developing weapon systems because we know they're coming back and we've been waiting for them. And that, you know, this is why they can't tell you about the UFO subject. And it's like, right, I have a massive issue with this. Like, I have an issue with people who say, like, we've been doing this in secret. That's why we couldn't tell you. Okay, so these things are transdimensional. They apparently interface with consciousness, can apparently bend spacetime fabric, but we can keep a secret from them.

• 1:27:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:07Speaker 08

  Come on, bro.

• 1:27:08Jesse Michels?

  Oh, that's a great point.

• 1:27:09Speaker 08

  Weak source.

• 1:27:09Jesse Michels?

  Right, right, right, right, right. We can prepare and they wouldn't know.

• 1:27:12Speaker 08

  If Tom DeLonge's sitting there on like, you know, the radio going like, no, trust me, dude, like, we're hiding it because of the aliens. What the fuck, they've heard it. Like, you know what I mean? So like, that doesn't wash with me. I think that, you know, someone like Tom DeLonge, he got brought in and he was so excited and it's kind of like, you know, on a lower level, similar to me when I was first meeting people and, you know, like, hanging out with CIA officers and you think this is so cool, like, these guys are actually giving me time, but they're so good at becoming your friend. Like, you know, that's what I was saying before, they're good at doing that because they see you as someone that, you know, can send a message through.

• 1:27:40Speaker 09

  Yeah, showbiz is bold.

• 1:27:41Speaker 08

  Yeah, like, not every time, but I think there's a lot of that in the UFO community because it's like, it's like perfect ground zero for them to interface with the public and create a bit of a rumor or, you know, a bit of a campfire story.

• 1:27:51Jesse Michels?

  What do you think the point, because a part of me is like.

• 1:27:54Speaker 08

  Confusion.

• 1:27:55Jesse Michels?

  A confusion.

• 1:27:55Speaker 08

  Absolute confusion as to what is actually going on because like, again, there is definitely something going on.

• 1:28:00Jesse Michels?

  There's something going on.

• 1:28:00Speaker 08

  Something really, really important and probably non-human.

• 1:28:03Jesse Michels?

  Do you have like a best guess at that? Or do you think that maybe the psyop above all else is that they don't know?

• 1:28:10Speaker 08

  Yeah, that could be.

• 1:28:11Jesse Michels?

  And so you just create.

• 1:28:12Speaker 08

  They haven't got a clue.

• 1:28:12Jesse Michels?

  Because I suspect that no one knows.

• 1:28:15Speaker 08

  Well, that's kind of where I lean is like, they've got maybe slightly higher fidelity information and ideas, but they don't really know what it is and they don't know how to address it. And it's like, you know, how does the premier national security apparatus go? We have no idea. They can penetrate every system. They can destroy us. They can take you out of your room at night, like, you know, all that kind of stuff like. Yeah, I think that there's an element of that, but then there's also like, you know, like I said, the classified exotic research and, you know, using the alien as a smokescreen for that. So there's so many incentives to keep us in the dark and also spread all these different stories, which we've seen since like the 1940s when they started these UFO conferences and these spooks and spies would come in and they'd give people ideas.

• 1:28:55Speaker 08

  But look at what we're dealing with now, a spaghetti junction of narratives with a thousand people saying a thousand things and that they're all true. This is the narrative. This is the narrative. It's like, no one actually knows. That feels purposeful. Feels like it's generating noise because again, there is something to look at. And it's maybe the implications are so deep that they can't risk people knowing about it. So it's better to believe in gray aliens coming from Alpha Centauri or whatever. You know, but again, like you said, I think that there's a likelihood that they don't really know. They don't really know and that scares the shit out of them.

• 1:29:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, there's clearly their patterns. There's clearly a.

• 1:29:27Speaker 08

  Old gods or something like, you know, like whatever we might think like, you know.

• 1:29:31Speaker 09

  Did you read that book of the Collins Elite?

• 1:29:33Speaker 08

  Oh, man, I've read a few things on the Collins Elite.

• 1:29:36Speaker 09

  The Final Events by Nick Redfern.

• 1:29:38Speaker 08

  Yeah, Nick Redfern.

• 1:29:38Speaker 09

  Now, whoever he was talking to was feeding him horse shit.

• 1:29:42Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:29:42Speaker 09

  But the book's still very interesting.

• 1:29:44Speaker 08

  Radical Christian ideologues and.

• 1:29:46Speaker 09

  Yes, because I watched Jason, I always call him Jazz Jabroni, but his name is Jason Giorgiani because he, and again, I don't need to agree with all your points. I, everybody's got a little piece. I just want your piece.

• 1:29:56Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:57Speaker 09

  Okay. And he, he pointed, he goes, this Collins Elite that are fundamentalist Christians.

• 1:30:01Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:30:02Speaker 09

  George W. Bush years. Okay. So I'll be calling Powell's in on that. There'd be a lot of these people in on that and they're fundamentalist Christians. Then you read about what they did. Well, first we met aliens and then we're like, can we use this to assassinate people? Well, are you guys Christians? I thought you were Christians.

• 1:30:19Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 1:30:20Speaker 09

  Christians do that.

• 1:30:21Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:22Speaker 09

  No, they don't. No, they don't. So now I'm being fetish- Oh, by the way, Collins, just so you know, is one of the old Barnabas Collins from the, uh, what do they call it? The Dark Shadows? Johnny Depp played him in the remake.

• 1:30:35Speaker 08

  Oh, I don't know, man.

• 1:30:36Speaker 09

  Yeah, it was a seventies thing from England. Barnabas Collins, very popular. Dark Shadows, Johnny Depp later played him in the Tim Burton remake movie.

• 1:30:42Speaker 08

  Okay.

• 1:30:43Speaker 09

  Okay? But that name Collins, that's one of them, the Thirteen Families.

• 1:30:47Speaker 08

  Right, big powerful name.

• 1:30:48Speaker 09

  Uh, first, first warlocks in America is their claim to fame. I wonder if that's the same Collins Elite?

• 1:30:54Speaker 08

  Maybe.

• 1:30:54Speaker 09

  Hey, I noticed a lot of occultists all think that they're Christian. And they say it like they are, like your J R Tolkien's, who by the way, was a Rosicrucian.

• 1:31:04Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:31:05Speaker 09

  Just like Disney.

• 1:31:05Jesse Michels?

  Was he?

• 1:31:06Speaker 08

  He was, yeah.

• 1:31:07Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:31:08Speaker 09

  Yeah. And his Catholic priest's son was a vicious pedophile.

• 1:31:12Jesse Michels?

  Didn't he, didn't Tolkien eventually convert to Christianity fully because of C.S. Lewis?

• 1:31:17Speaker 08

  Oh, I don't know.

• 1:31:18Jesse Michels?

  Am I making that up?

• 1:31:18Speaker 08

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:31:20Jesse Michels?

  Or maybe it was the opposite. Maybe C.S. Lewis eventually-

• 1:31:22Speaker 08

  I know he had ties into these esoteric communities, though.

• 1:31:26Jesse Michels?

  What's up, guys? One of today's sponsors is us, American Alchemy. We just launched what I think is maybe the coolest merch line in the world. When you're wearing it, it's not like you're shilling me or the channel. They're just really epic and I think they look good. We have a couple of amazing designs for you. We have our cowboy UFO tee. Pretty epic. You see there's a rancher. He's witnessing a UFO. A little cow is getting abducted by the UFO in the background. And then you know that I love mid-century history, specifically spooky science, atomic era stuff. And so we have our atomic age tee here. Uh, pretty cool vibe. Uh, you got a robot serving this guy.

• 1:32:10Jesse Michels?

  Uh, a little martini and then a UFO off to the side. I think it's pretty epic too. And then finally, we have our hats. This is just one of the hats. We have many different designs, but I think they're pretty epic. I think you can wear these around and they just look like a generally cool brand. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to be obsessed with UFOs or even my channel. I think they just look epic. But buying these does support the channel. I no longer make any money from any of the venture capital stuff I used to do. This is my sole source of income. So buying the merch is a really amazing way to show your support. Go to AmericanAlchemyMerch.com. AmericanAlchemy, M E R C H, dot com to check out all of this amazing new apparel.

• 1:32:55Jesse Michels?

  The cowboy tee that I'm wearing is 100% cotton, super relaxed fit. We went for quality on these, uh, so check them out.

• 1:33:03Speaker 09

  Okay, Mormonism, Lord of the Rings, a bunch of stories. You hear the themes over and over. Yeah, same. Campfire stories. Yeah, yeah. The theme is Atlantis over and over. Yeah. And thank you, dog journalist. A metaphorical overlay. I got that word from him. I didn't make that up. It's a metaphorical overlay. Once you realize that principle of a metaphorical overlay, then you go, I've heard this story before. Like I'm Sam the Tall White. Oh, this sounds like some racist came to an island and we're like a cargo cult that tries to make the same planes out of wood. But I got news for you. I think they have all those meta-materials now. The, the helium three and the fuck and the Bob Lazar muscovium 113. Because I text you about it. They made that in a particle collider in Russia. What, what do you? That's what CERN is.

• 1:33:48Speaker 09

  How much meta-material could I get out of the biggest one? Or the 30,000 ones we have all over? You know, something wild about CERN, right? They're not opening portals. They're making that shit. Well, you know what's interesting about that? Cause I mean, like, obviously like everyone's making theories about CERN and like, you know, what's going on there. But there was that woman who I look.

• 1:34:05Jesse Michels?

  Astrid Stuckelberger.

• 1:34:06Speaker 09

  Yeah, man. And she's got a hell of a resume.

• 1:34:08Jesse Michels?

  She has a really impressive, she's kind of like a public health policy expert, but sits on all these interesting boards. And she's in an interview and she goes, physicists from CERN are telling me that beings.

• 1:34:19Speaker 09

  Beings are coming out of portals.

• 1:34:20Jesse Michels?

  International portals at CERN.

• 1:34:22Speaker 03

  There are lots of physicians. I know some, they're doing very strange experimentation. There are beings from portals coming in and out. It's physicists from the CERN who told me this. They've testified to beings coming in and out of portals. Yes.

• 1:34:37Jesse Michels?

  So this is what's crazy.

• 1:34:38Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:34:38Jesse Michels?

  I reached out to her. One summer, like last summer, not maybe, maybe two summers ago.

• 1:34:46Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:34:46Jesse Michels?

  Because I was fascinated. That interview came out and I was like, I need to, because I've, I do think high-energy physics, whether it's Thomas Townsend Brown, Tesla, nuclear stuff, you get weird stuff showing up.

• 1:34:58Speaker 08

  It can yield anomalies.

• 1:34:59Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, for sure. That's where you're, you're, you're testing the boundaries of our reality and the, the whole Feynman, there's room at the bottom. That's how you get into that. And so I was like, okay, this is really interesting. So I reach out to her. No response. Then I throw that clip in a long video I did with this guy, Riz Burke, who does simulation theory stuff.

• 1:35:18Speaker 08

  She got back to you.

• 1:35:18Jesse Michels?

  And she emails me and she was like, we must talk now or whatever. And it was, yeah. And it was responding to my initial inquiry. Clearly because she had read it.

• 1:35:27Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 1:35:27Jesse Michels?

  And.

• 1:35:28Speaker 08

  Just didn't know who you were and was like, whatever. I don't know who this guy is.

• 1:35:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:31Speaker 08

  Like, yeah.

• 1:35:32Jesse Michels?

  But clearly she did. And I was like, okay, let's talk this week. And then I just ghosted, like never, never heard from her. So, so strange.

• 1:35:39Speaker 08

  Well, that's the thing. I only, she was on like some obscure interview on BitChute or something like that, you know? She wasn't on like YouTube or anything like that. And I think because she was also talking about COVID and it was during that time where you just couldn't say shit. But I found it very interesting what she was saying. And I don't know, man, like, you know, so, and so many theories about what they're doing over there. And it's a difficult one, but high-energy physics, like you said, I mean, I've heard some things from people who, you know, work in the quantum computational industries and kind of like some of the high-level simulations they're running on like black holes and dark matter. And weird shit is going on localized to the computer.

• 1:36:10Jesse Michels?

  And there's a famous, there's a famous crash in the US at South Haven, right near, next to Brookhaven National Labs. That's, that's where our largest particle accelerator is. So that's our CERN equivalent in Long Island.

• 1:36:23Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:36:23Jesse Michels?

  And you have the police chiefs there and a bunch of local residents say that it was collected by Brookhaven. The, the crash itself.

• 1:36:30Speaker 08

  And Brookhaven's Montauk, right? That's Montauk?

• 1:36:33Jesse Michels?

  It's near Long Island.

• 1:36:35Speaker 08

  In that vein, like weird shit going down in Brookhaven Labs.

• 1:36:38Speaker 09

  They had a gate program.

• 1:36:39Speaker 08

  Yeah, they had something going on.

• 1:36:40Speaker 09

  Getting talented.

• 1:36:41Jesse Michels?

  So do you guys think the Montauk experiments were real? Cause you've had on Eric Hecker.

• 1:36:46Speaker 09

  Yeah. My boy, Eric Hecker.

• 1:36:48Speaker 08

  Yeah, Eric Hecker. Yeah, I know you guys were chatting in a space not that long ago.

• 1:36:51Speaker 09

  You know, we bombed Iraq that day. They had a five-point.

• 1:36:53Speaker 08

  No shit.

• 1:36:53Speaker 09

  Two earthquake. Hey, you know Syria where we just installed Al Qaeda? Remember we went to war?

• 1:36:58Jesse Michels?

  Your brain makes too many connections.

• 1:37:01Speaker 09

  That's what the government tells me.

• 1:37:03Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:37:06Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:08Jesse Michels?

  Think about what he just said to me. A little context for the audience, real quick. Eric Hecker, who's Eric Hecker?

• 1:37:13Speaker 08

  Eric Hecker is, he was a plumber, like quite a high level plumber. He went out to a lot of different, like, you know, interesting clients, but he ended up getting a contract via Raytheon to go out to Antarctica and do work out there.

• 1:37:24Jesse Michels?

  Ice cube.

• 1:37:24Speaker 08

  Yeah, Ice Cube Neutrino Detector and things like this. And because of his role, like, people kind of like shrug it off because, you know, you're just a mechanic, just a plumber. But because of that role, you get access to so many different areas of like the sites and the facilities to do basic work and upkeep. And he said that he had noticed that like energy was being transferred from one area to another area where it wasn't supposed to be going. Like a huge amount of energy was being sent off to these places when he was, you know, trying to de-energize the cables and things like that. And he was like, you know, where's all this going? And they were like, don't even worry about it. And then he, I can't remember the specifics of how he's kind of come to this conclusion, but he's pretty sure that the Ice Cube Neutrino Detector, which is like embedded into the ice. I mean, it's absolutely insane. This thing with all these like doms that are going deep down into the ice.

• 1:38:09Speaker 08

  It's essentially like, you know, this three dimensional technological construct. He thinks that there is, well, he's found documentation, to be fair to him, like documents that insinuate it's a two-way device that the energy can be used to

• 1:38:20Jesse Michels?

  Emitter.

• 1:38:21Speaker 08

  Actually emit instead of just receive. So it's not just a receiver of neutrinos. And?

• 1:38:26Jesse Michels?

  It's an earthquake gun.

• 1:38:27Speaker 08

  And it's an earthquake gun, you know?

• 1:38:28Jesse Michels?

  Christchurch, earthquake.

• 1:38:29Speaker 08

  New Zealand. I don't know how true that is because I haven't really seen satisfactory evidence for it. But that is the claim, that is what he's saying, and he's become quite well known for, you know, talking about that. And I know you've connected to him pretty recently as well.

• 1:38:42Jesse Michels?

  I just did a thing with him. I talk to him all the time.

• 1:38:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, he's an interesting guy.

• 1:38:45Jesse Michels?

  He also talks about, because he says he was in it like a childhood. Yes, he was.

• 1:38:49Speaker 08

  Yeah, sorry, yeah, yeah.

• 1:38:51Jesse Michels?

  And then he talks about the Montauk Experiment.

• 1:38:53Speaker 15

  I grew up on Long Island. I had a very peculiar history of nefarious activity with the Stargate program.

• 1:39:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, you know, I've forgotten the name of Innisfarada, Innisfarada. That's the name of the school that's now been turned, it was renamed and then destroyed, but I did find the place. It was real and it was called Innisfarada when he was there and it was like this weird. School for gifted children and they would do the remote viewing stuff and apparently they'd take him to the library. And put this like fluid in their eyes that would make everything turn slightly yellow. And he he said he'd remember like being really like pumped to go outside and like see if it was still there because everything would be in yellow and he didn't really know why they were doing that, but. It was at this time where he was being, you know, kind of prompted to remote view and, you know, there's no wrong answer. Just tell us what you think. And he didn't really understand what was going on in this setting because it was very different to his school environment.

• 1:39:44Speaker 08

  And like Kurt said, you know, this is something that a lot of people seem to have been brought into, especially in America. It seems you guys have been running that because I don't know about the UK. I haven't heard many stories of like, you know, that kind of stuff.

• 1:39:53Jesse Michels?

  I know like at this point, four or five people. Who, if you met in any other context, you'd be like, this is a normal credible person. Say that they like, don't, they're brought into this some program as a kid. They don't remember a certain year of their life. It's really interesting.

• 1:40:10Speaker 08

  Yeah, I think there's some truth to that, brother. Like, you know, of course you would try and get some of the best and brightest and try and. Especially if you genuinely are interested in parapsychology, but you can tell the world that. It's like, right, find these kids, see if they can do it, see if they can interface. I mean, NASA had the STAR kids. That's even like mainstream knowledge now. We know. That NASA was getting these kids and trying to get them into remote viewing and.

• 1:40:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, Andrej Puharic had his institute in upstate New York.

• 1:40:33Speaker 08

  And a lot of the astronauts did remote viewing. I mean, Edgar Mitchell is really known for that, doing experiments when he was up on the moon.

• 1:40:38Jesse Michels?

  And Gordon Cooper.

• 1:40:39Speaker 08

  Gordon Cooper.

• 1:40:40Jesse Michels?

  Discussion about space kids and stuff. You're kind of going back to like.

• 1:40:43Speaker 09

  Blue Masonic flag on the moon. You know, people think the moon landing is fake.

• 1:40:46Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 1:40:47Speaker 09

  I don't think it is just based on they put a blue Mason Lodge flag on.

• 1:40:52Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, Buzz Aldrin.

• 1:40:53Speaker 08

  Do you think, do you think the footage that we saw might have been faked, but not the actual mission itself?

• 1:40:56Jesse Michels?

  That, that's my belief.

• 1:40:57Speaker 08

  That's kind of where I am.

• 1:40:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:59Speaker 09

  I wonder because some people say, like, you know, people say nukes aren't real because some of the footage is fake.

• 1:41:04Speaker 08

  Right, yeah, I don't know about that.

• 1:41:05Speaker 09

  Smart guys, smart thinking. Yeah, Mark Andreessen said that.

• 1:41:09Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah. I've seen that flowing around.

• 1:41:11Speaker 09

  He's an absolute liar. He's a dumbass. I'm sorry to tell you, he's one.

• 1:41:14Speaker 08

  I watch him do it. Tell that shit to the Japanese, man. They might have a few things to say about that.

• 1:41:19Speaker 09

  What about the radiation? Yeah. I got this from Joseph P. Farrell. This is a great little tidbit. I've never heard anybody say this before. Um, when he, he remembers from being a little nerd kid, when, uh, uh, what, what's the German guy that ran the rocket program? The famous one. Werner von Braun. Yeah, he's, he has a blurb in Time Magazine that his mom got. And he's reading it, Werner von Braun, he tells the, while he's talking about the moon facts, you know, he goes, well, the point of neutral, you know, point of neutral gravity where it, he gives like double the amount for what they said it was.

• 1:41:51Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:41:51Speaker 09

  And then, and then. Who does? Uh, von Braun. Von Braun.

• 1:41:55Speaker 08

  To what we're now given today, like.

• 1:41:57Speaker 09

  Not only that, so because he's such a turbo nerd, Joseph P. Farrell, he puts together, that means it's more dense than they're saying, it's farther away.

• 1:42:04Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:42:04Speaker 09

  Oh, right. There's a race to the moon. Remember how we gotta get to the moon? Don't know why, but we gotta get there.

• 1:42:09Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:42:09Speaker 09

  Before we reach it. Well, Sputnik was beating, yeah, they were beating us.

• 1:42:13Speaker 08

  That's the, that's what we're told, right? That's what we're told, for sure.

• 1:42:17Speaker 09

  How did we get all the good Nazis after the war, but Sputnik was beating us in space? How does that work? Oh, maybe the same way Pearl Harbor worked. You know. Where you cut off Japan's oil, so they have to attack you. Cause you want them to. So you think Sputnik was a false flag? No, I think they wanted Sputnik to go ahead, so they go.

• 1:42:33Speaker 08

  Right, so they had a.

• 1:42:34Speaker 09

  Hey, we gotta start working a lot harder, guys.

• 1:42:36Speaker 08

  It provided the impetus to do that, right? And what's, what's weird as well is that there's a clip, there's this really good clip. I mean, it's just like a real what the fuck moment with this NASA astronaut who's like, oh, I'd go back to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is, we destroyed that technology and it's a very difficult process to build it back again.

• 1:42:56Speaker 09

  I'd go to the moon in a nanosecond.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  The problem is, we don't have the technology to do that anymore. We used to, but we destroyed that technology. And it's a painful process to build it back again.

• 1:43:10Speaker 08

  It's like, what?

• 1:43:11Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:11Speaker 08

  And like, how did we get through the Van Allen radiation belt at that time? But now we can't.

• 1:43:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, it's really interesting.

• 1:43:17Speaker 08

  Roni and Eliolo Earth orbit now.

• 1:43:18Jesse Michels?

  You know, you know how Starship's, what their plan is to get to the moon? It's wild.

• 1:43:22Speaker 08

  What is it?

• 1:43:23Jesse Michels?

  So it's, Starship is, you know, Elon's latest rocket. 150 to 200 tons or whatever. And this is a state of the art, you know, thing. It's obviously much more tonnage than what we were dealing with back then. It's meant to like, carry, you know, huge payload of starlings and shit. But still, this is what we have to do now to get to the moon.

• 1:43:41Speaker 08

  And we did this before we had something like an iPhone. Like, you know, the entire computational processing of NASA couldn't even fit in my pocket.

• 1:43:47Jesse Michels?

  In your pocket?

• 1:43:48Speaker 08

  You know what I mean?

• 1:43:49Jesse Michels?

  So, so, so, so these things now go up to low Earth orbit. They burn nine tenths of the fuel tank just to get to low Earth orbit. And then they, they're orbiting around. And then you have to get another one up. That burns nine tenths. It does butt to butt refueling with the first one. So you get two tenths in that first one.

• 1:44:04Speaker 08

  Okay.

• 1:44:05Jesse Michels?

  The, the, the second one then disposes of itself. You have to do that 10 times to get a full tank in low Earth orbit. And then that one that's fully refueled goes to the moon.

• 1:44:16Speaker 08

  Yeah, I feel like that alone debunks and asks some serious questions.

• 1:44:19Jesse Michels?

  It's insane.

• 1:44:20Speaker 09

  Yeah, unless you got another energy source.

• 1:44:22Speaker 08

  Yeah, where the fuck?

• 1:44:23Speaker 09

  Also, oil's not rare. Colonel Proudie told us. It's like diamonds, like the beers.

• 1:44:27Jesse Michels?

  Stay on track.

• 1:44:28Speaker 09

  So you, it's all the scrap, all on it.

• 1:44:30Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, no, it's a little, it's your king of non sequiturs.

• 1:44:34Speaker 09

  But. You know what? Okay, look, look, I'm telling you this for real, dude. Part of the thing for people on the program? They have a list of, you can read.

• 1:44:41Jesse Michels?

  You're a nonlinear thinker.

• 1:44:42Speaker 09

  The ability to synthesize seemingly unrelated events. Now, when I read that, that's how I write jokes. The reason I look at all goofy shit and I look at everything is so I can have jokes. A lot of my jokes that I made as jokes.

• 1:44:56Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 1:44:57Speaker 09

  Have like, come true and it's disturbing the fuck out of me.

• 1:45:00Jesse Michels?

  Diana Pesolga needs to write American Cosmic 2 about Kurt and his brain.

• 1:45:04Speaker 08

  American Cosmic 2, Electric Boogaloo.

• 1:45:06Jesse Michels?

  He gets downloads, Electric Boogaloo.

• 1:45:08Speaker 09

  Dude, you, look.

• 1:45:10Jesse Michels?

  He has protocols.

• 1:45:12Speaker 09

  You all should be seeing that, I want to make this clear that I'm not smart. I fell for 9/11 back in the day. I was in New York and they go, we gotta go to Iraq. And people rightly pointed out, that makes zero sense. And I said, shut up. I made a lot of faces Jesse made here on the show today. Be a patriot. I'm joking, come on.

• 1:45:31Jesse Michels?

  Well, I just, I think you have to, like, with nine eleven even, like, I now suspect more than ever that there's some fuckery there, but I don't know. And I think you have to stay in that not knowing zone to be an honest.

• 1:45:43Speaker 09

  Let me give you a good parable from the, uh, uh, do you remember, um, when we starved half a million kids in Iraq with those sanctions? And, um, what's her creepy name? She was the bird bitch that, she's getting interviewed on Sixty Minutes. Uh, Albright, Madeleine Albright, and, uh, and the lady goes, and I'm watching.

• 1:45:59Jesse Michels?

  You're probably the first female Secretary of State at the.

• 1:46:02Speaker 09

  Oh, that matters. Well, that matters if you're a lizard person, doesn't it? Let me get through it, okay? I don't get a nervous rich kid feeling. I'm just trying to get through it. I know they're your friends. Just relax. Okay? I don't blame you for the FTX kid. I'm not like the others.

• 1:46:18Speaker 09

  So Madeleine Albright sitting there being asked.

• 1:46:20Jesse Michels?

  Fucking roasted.

• 1:46:21Speaker 09

  I'm a comic. She's being asked, hey, over half a million kids starve from our sanctions. You know, when we canceled Iraq?

• 1:46:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:28Speaker 09

  And their kids starve because that's what we do, the good country. And was it worth it? And Madeleine Albright, she goes, like a zombie, she is, she goes, I think it was.

• 1:46:37Jesse Michels?

  Oh, God.

• 1:46:38Speaker 09

  The first woman said that.

• 1:46:39Jesse Michels?

  Damn, bro.

• 1:46:40Speaker 09

  I think it was worth starving half a, now luckily, we have the numbers, there's only a quarter million Iraqi kids, so. But if she would do that and say, I think it's worth it on a goddamn camera. You think that bitch wouldn't drink a baby in the woods with an outfit like this on? Are you dumb? Are you young?

• 1:46:57Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 1:46:57Speaker 09

  You haven't figured out the scam yet. So I think of this like scams. They don't know what it is? They thought they knew. They got Nigerian prince scammed. Get it? Think of it as crypto scams. Be Coffeezilla about it. Coffeezilla, who I recommended to Rogan Show, I want to admit, he, he curmies Tres Orgasmos, the writer of As The Carpets Or The Drapes. I recommended him. The guy does killer work, right? Just apply that. Just do a metaphor. It's so easy. It's just pattern recognition. You can see the game that's being played on you. Hey, this reminds me of this. You just gotta do that. All humans can do this shit. They're literally training you not to do it. Have you noticed?

• 1:47:39Jesse Michels?

  I believe there is some, you know, ambient evil in the neoliberal world order.

• 1:47:46Speaker 09

  And neocon.

• 1:47:47Jesse Michels?

  And neocon, which are kind of synonymous in many ways. But like, when you meet these people, I don't know. I'm not sure they're drinking baby blood in the woods. Like, I'm sure, I know, I know there is weird shit, like the Epstein shit, of course.

• 1:48:02Speaker 09

  You know the M.P. Ultra reason, right? Manchurian Candidate is based on that. What if we could have a secret agent that don't know they're an agent? Wouldn't that be great? And if they get captured, they honestly didn't know they did it. We achieved that. That's been achieved since ancient Egypt, but we achieved it. We big farmed it with the Nazis we saved. As, that's on matter of public record, not a conspiracy. We brought Nazis here with big fucking scars down their face. To run NASA, which had a space kids camp. I wonder what went on there? And we had them run it, to some reason, beat the Soviets to the moon.

• 1:48:34Jesse Michels?

  Wait, NASA had a-

• 1:48:35Speaker 09

  Get to the moon and destroy the ship.

• 1:48:37Jesse Michels?

  NASA had a space kids camp?

• 1:48:38Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:48:39Jesse Michels?

  I didn't know that.

• 1:48:40Speaker 08

  Like I was saying, like, you can look it up now. It's like, kind of general knowledge. They had like, space kids and like, the star kids, I think it was called, or something like that.

• 1:48:46Jesse Michels?

  I know about Puharic or whatever, but didn't NASA-

• 1:48:49Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. NASA had something like a gifted children's thing, but I think it is kind of like, you know, there's a, there's a mainstream acknowledgement of that. And then the surface layer of that is people saying, yeah, and while we were there, they were teaching us remote viewing. That's kind of the thing that's not necessarily discussed publicly, but was part of that program.

• 1:49:04Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, wow.

• 1:49:05Speaker 09

  Nonsense.

• 1:49:06Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 1:49:06Speaker 09

  No, I don't remember doing anything like that. Maybe I didn't pass and nothing happened, but I just don't remember.

• 1:49:10Jesse Michels?

  Well, Werner von Braun apparently encouraged also Edgar Mitchell to go up and do this sort of parapsychology, like, pick this card, sort of-

• 1:49:18Speaker 09

  Yeah, well, Ghostbusters beginning, remember that?

• 1:49:20Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 1:49:20Speaker 09

  In Ghostbusters, Bill Burr.

• 1:49:21Jesse Michels?

  Dan, I've gotten dinner with Dan Aykroyd. He is obsessed with UFOs.

• 1:49:26Speaker 08

  Yeah, oh, yeah, he's deep.

• 1:49:27Speaker 09

  Dan Aykroyd is probably a high level Freemason, and that's why he's into.

• 1:49:30Jesse Michels?

  Well, he says his family, he does like, you know, psychic research for a hundred years.

• 1:49:35Speaker 09

  That dude knows a lot of stuff, I promise you, and stuff he ain't never gonna say.

• 1:49:39Jesse Michels?

  He also smokes a ton of weed, so maybe that opens some portals.

• 1:49:42Speaker 09

  Weed on the MKUltra list of what drugs do to control you.

• 1:49:45Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:49:46Speaker 09

  Marijuana breaks amnesiac barriers and interferes with the programming. So in Montauk.

• 1:49:52Speaker 08

  That's probably why I'm so dope.

• 1:49:54Speaker 09

  Look, don't worry.

• 1:49:58Speaker 09

  They fixed the problem now, so the weed, I'm sure.

• 1:50:00Speaker 08

  Oh, lame, man.

• 1:50:01Speaker 09

  But why was weed illegal so long? Well, it interfered with the mass mind control.

• 1:50:06Jesse Michels?

  Can I, can I give you my crazy MKUltra theory?

• 1:50:09Speaker 09

  Go right ahead.

• 1:50:09Jesse Michels?

  Okay, so Jolly West, you know, one of the architects of MKUltra, like, I feel like a lot of it was like, he had this like Center for Violence Studies, Violence Reduction. I kind of think it was like local violence creation for mass pacification or violence reduction. So it's like things like Manson where you have this, you have a symbolic scapegoat where like, Manson was synonymous with like the hippie movement.

• 1:50:36Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:50:37Jesse Michels?

  And you have him.

• 1:50:38Speaker 08

  This is the way that you then go, we gotta stop this, guys, because look at this one.

• 1:50:41Speaker 09

  Hunter S. Thompson writes it down and it becomes legend.

• 1:50:44Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:50:44Speaker 09

  Right? That was, oh, they're those hippies. So that's the guy closing the book on that little op right there. And if you read the Franklin scandal, I didn't, I was like, nah, he wasn't there. Then I'm like, wait a minute.

• 1:50:54Speaker 08

  His death's a bit suspicious, isn't it, Hunter S.?

• 1:50:57Speaker 09

  Um.

• 1:50:57Speaker 08

  Pretty sure he was shot with a suppressed pistol or something.

• 1:51:00Speaker 09

  Look into his life, it's worse.

• 1:51:01Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:02Speaker 09

  And, you know, all the crazy talk about adrenochrome, I know, where did I hear that? I heard that in Fear and Loathing.

• 1:51:08Speaker 08

  Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

• 1:51:09Speaker 09

  I wanted to find some.

• 1:51:11Jesse Michels?

  He wrote about adrenochrome.

• 1:51:12Speaker 08

  Well, have you seen Fear and Loathing, the film?

• 1:51:14Jesse Michels?

  Uh huh.

• 1:51:14Speaker 08

  So in that, there's a scene where they take adrenochrome. He's like, I got it from the Satanist. You can only get it from a pineal gland, like a real pine. And it's like, oh. Like, they'd give the whole spiel about adrenochrome.

• 1:51:23Speaker 09

  You thought it was a hallucin- see, they made it look like it's like.

• 1:51:26Speaker 08

  A hallucinogenic or like, yeah, yeah.

• 1:51:28Speaker 09

  Yeah, but now, when they talk about it, have you noticed this? They talk about like it's narcotic, like a cocaine.

• 1:51:33Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:51:34Speaker 09

  Now, here's a weird fact, I don't know how it fits in, maybe you heard some. Uh, the stuff for an EpiPen, when you have allergies.

• 1:51:39Speaker 08

  The adrenaline, right?

• 1:51:40Speaker 09

  That's adrenaline, and if you let that go bad, it turns into adrenochrome.

• 1:51:45Speaker 08

  Oh.

• 1:51:45Speaker 09

  But it looks like red powder. So why can't you just use that if it's a drug?

• 1:51:49Speaker 08

  I mean, like.

• 1:51:49Speaker 09

  See, I don't know.

• 1:51:50Speaker 08

  I definitely think there's something to adrenalized blood. Like, you know, this whole idea that, you know, you get someone into a perpetual state of fear. They've got all this adrenaline running through them. Like, that blood's gonna be rich in adrenaline. Whatever that really does to someone's mind if they just drink it, I don't know. But like, you know, they, they definitely don't want us to think that there's anything like actionable or real.

• 1:52:07Speaker 09

  What's an internet troll do?

• 1:52:08Speaker 08

  Like.

• 1:52:09Speaker 09

  They try to, if somebody disembodied thing, feeding on your, they say stuff to provoke you.

• 1:52:15Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:52:15Speaker 09

  To feed.

• 1:52:16Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:52:16Speaker 09

  On your negative emotions. Does that story sound familiar to you?

• 1:52:19Speaker 08

  Yeah, again, like the same fractal pattern.

• 1:52:22Speaker 09

  As the carpet, so the drapes, we're gonna technologically create.

• 1:52:25Jesse Michels?

  It's like a demonic, demonic.

• 1:52:27Speaker 08

  Yeah, absolutely, man, like, absolutely. And I think it happens in different levels and layers of society in different ways, you know?

• 1:52:33Speaker 09

  It does not suck, because I found your show on there.

• 1:52:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:35Speaker 09

  I learned.

• 1:52:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:36Speaker 09

  Now, I don't.

• 1:52:37Jesse Michels?

  No, that's true, that, that stuff's dope. Like, the fact that you can make connections that you could never make, but we're gonna make more progress and all this stuff.

• 1:52:44Speaker 09

  They fucked up putting this in that, they fucked it up.

• 1:52:45Jesse Michels?

  But it also, sometimes I'm like, I just gotta get this out of my brain, like, the, the people you sometimes get focused on, because they're, and then sometimes people attack you for no reason.

• 1:52:54Speaker 08

  It can be very overwhelming, actually.

• 1:52:56Speaker 09

  You have to lose your ego about it a hundred percent.

• 1:52:57Jesse Michels?

  You have to lose your ego.

• 1:52:58Speaker 08

  And the issue with that is that this is a very egotistical space, like, you know?

• 1:53:01Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:01Speaker 08

  A lot of competition between people and like, you know, like influencers and content creators and whatever, whatever. And like, that's something that I found very tiring, is just like dealing with the egos in this field.

• 1:53:11Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's so ironic, right? Because it's like.

• 1:53:13Speaker 08

  People say, I've got a massive ego, maybe I do, but.

• 1:53:15Jesse Michels?

  Well, UFOs should like, UFOs should be like this sacred thing.

• 1:53:20Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:53:20Jesse Michels?

  And instead. You have all this like jockeying around like, you know, I want to be the disclosure person or this or that.

• 1:53:26Speaker 09

  It's all so dumb.

• 1:53:27Speaker 08

  Exactly, and it's a cottage industry. There's a lot of money to be made. Like, you know, people don't think there's any money in UFOs. Like, have you been to some of these conferences where they've got the whole place hired out? And it's like, there's money there, dude. There's money there.

• 1:53:37Speaker 09

  That's how they compromise your work or anything.

• 1:53:39Speaker 08

  And then all the CIA people are at these conferences.

• 1:53:42Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, they are.

• 1:53:42Speaker 08

  In bed within the crowd, talking to people.

• 1:53:44Speaker 09

  I was never offered money, okay? I don't want to say these things I'm saying, but they won't pay me. They'll not say them.

• 1:53:50Speaker 08

  Still wearing my picture.

• 1:53:51Speaker 09

  I didn't even thought to do that. Not once. Why?

• 1:53:53Jesse Michels?

  Rude.

• 1:53:54Speaker 09

  Because my cape isn't as nice as some people's capes?

• 1:53:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:57Speaker 09

  And my on staff, yeah, maybe I got it party city before I came here, but don't show that I have esoteric knowledge? Yeah, maybe my cult leader sunglasses are, I got them at the 7-Eleven before I came here when I got my claws.

• 1:54:10Jesse Michels?

  Well, I.

• 1:54:10Speaker 09

  And that don't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

• 1:54:15Speaker 02

  It's me, the.

• 1:54:18Speaker 02

  We don't need the jingle twice.

• 1:54:21Speaker 02

  Stop it. This is about vacation inflation and how Priceline negotiates amazing deals on hotels, flights, and rental cars.

• 1:54:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I didn't mention that you can save up to 60% off hotels in the Priceline app.

• 1:54:36Speaker 02

  Fine. No one deals more deals than.

• 1:54:39Speaker 02

  Please stop. Touche. Priceline.

• 1:54:43Jesse Michels?

  I, I offered way too much, more, more money than I can afford, to be honest, to have Kirkpatrick come on my show. And then my buddy doubled it.

• 1:54:50Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, I saw that.

• 1:54:51Jesse Michels?

  It's at 100K.

• 1:54:52Speaker 08

  With who?

• 1:54:52Jesse Michels?

  And I don't think he's gonna come, but I think it's a revealed preference that he's being paid off. Kirkpatrick, Sean Kirkpatrick, you know this guy? He's not meta bad enough for you because you want only pro-disclosure people to be bad, but there are anti-disclosure people who are also bad? It's too simple?

• 1:55:10Speaker 08

  But it's also like.

• 1:55:10Speaker 09

  I'm not judging you good or bad. I judge if you lie to them.

• 1:55:13Speaker 08

  Definitely.

• 1:55:13Jesse Michels?

  Well, he, he is a liar. I'll tell you that.

• 1:55:16Speaker 08

  Right, but I definitely get, I definitely get frustrated with like the pro-disclosure activists who are kind of like anyone who's coming out from the government, who isn't Lou Elizondo is wrong about what they're saying. And it's like, yeah, okay, but like, again, I would say that someone like Lou, for example.

• 1:55:30Jesse Michels?

  But on the facts, Kirkpatrick got so much wrong in that article.

• 1:55:32Speaker 08

  Oh, no, absolutely. I'm not disparaging that. Like, you know, Sean is, is a shady character.

• 1:55:37Jesse Michels?

  Shady.

• 1:55:38Speaker 08

  But so is Lou.

• 1:55:39Speaker 09

  Sure, sure.

• 1:55:40Speaker 08

  So is the guy that drops fake UFO photos onstage and in congressional settings and they get debunked in 24 hours?

• 1:55:46Speaker 09

  He was wrong long before that.

• 1:55:47Speaker 08

  So much as, but I know, bro, I've been following it for a long time.

• 1:55:50Speaker 09

  Okay, so Saj Ben Cohen, who, by the way, has a mutation, is either he can read tiny writing that no one can see. Are you sure? Fucking awesome.

• 1:55:58Speaker 08

  What a wild little superpower to have.

• 1:56:00Speaker 09

  Dude, don't improv. He writes the lines you say.

• 1:56:01Speaker 08

  Holy shit.

• 1:56:02Speaker 09

  Word for word.

• 1:56:03Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 1:56:04Speaker 09

  When he would go in character. He's a genius. Dude, it was, he would go in character. So we did this billionaire character, Gio. And he's talking to a yacht salesman about putting girls in a boat. And now I want to tell you, all these pranks, it's all these rich kids that are funny kids and they burn family connections to do pranks. Okay, this is 2017, I'm doing this. Hysterical shit, dude. And we had these people, we had Dick Cheney on, he asked him to sign his waterboard and, you know. Yeah, that was hilarious. He got my waterboarding kit. He goes, please sign my waterboard. My favorite was. So funny.

• 1:56:34Speaker 08

  Oh, was this in the This is America?

• 1:56:36Speaker 09

  Who is America? Who is America?

• 1:56:37Speaker 08

  Oh my god, some of that was disturbing, bro.

• 1:56:40Speaker 09

  Yeah, so I, every time I go, no one is gonna fall for this. This is too stupid.

• 1:56:44Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 1:56:45Speaker 09

  Okay, I was wrong. I was not right one.

• 1:56:47Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:56:48Speaker 09

  Dude, they did these fake charities. I wrote about like skinny shaming the kids of Sudan. And say, my body, my choice, like, we had some rockers go, they'll say anything because the camera's on them. It was unbelievable. But the Gio one, that's why I want to talk to Weinstein because his story of meeting Epstein. It sounded, dude, it sounded like what we did on the show. Like, was Epstein doing a prank show? And then I realized, oh, we were doing what an intel operation is. And here's the thing. Right. So I had some ones I think are funny, and I thought they were so stupid, who would fall for this? But in Georgia, Iran Marad, the Israeli commander.

• 1:57:22Speaker 08

  That blew my mind, dude. And when he was getting the guy to have like the little teddy bear guns for kids and stuff.

• 1:57:26Speaker 09

  Oh yeah, they did that before. I think they were, they built a mosque, so in case they'd act as. Oh, it's so funny. And he's like, you build your cubicle into a mosque so they can't attack you. The guy's wearing a turban and genie shoes.

• 1:57:38Speaker 08

  Holy shit.

• 1:57:39Speaker 09

  And he's like, has a flute and a Robert, I mean, come on. And so Saj was like, what are you, what are you doing? He goes, I'm a Muslim. I go, what are you eating? Hummus? Okay. And then the office camouflage, then I had the pork shield and the

• 1:57:51Speaker 08

  The pork shield.

• 1:57:53Speaker 09

  Pork, you're gay, like to chase the shooter out.

• 1:57:55Speaker 08

  Yeah, and they, and they actually do it. That's the thing that's crazy about it. These people who are like senators, they were actually on the show.

• 1:58:00Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 1:58:00Speaker 08

  Doing it, doing it.

• 1:58:02Speaker 09

  Right.

• 1:58:02Speaker 08

  So what do I do? I move towards him with my ass, like and say, America, America.

• 1:58:06Speaker 09

  You see what the thing is from what I'm saying?

• 1:58:08Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:09Speaker 09

  These people are fucking actors. The guy from the Federal Reserve, why do we have to borrow money that we print?

• 1:58:14Speaker 08

  Right.

• 1:58:14Speaker 09

  Uh.

• 1:58:15Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:58:16Speaker 09

  What the, yo.

• 1:58:17Speaker 08

  Who's running this?

• 1:58:18Speaker 09

  That should sit with you worse than any UFO story.

• 1:58:20Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude.

• 1:58:20Speaker 09

  What the fuck? None of you know how anything works? I feel like I shouldn't have better intel than the President of the United States. I don't think it's because I'm a super spy. I think because there's a big problem at the top.

• 1:58:34Speaker 08

  That kind of goes back to the, yeah, kind of goes back to UFO subject in terms of like, do they even know what's going on? Like, we barely, they barely even know what's going on in the Federal Reserve. Do they really know what's going on with like, you know, ancient aliens and like any of this stuff, like?

• 1:58:45Jesse Michels?

  It ma- makes it ripe for counter intel because of that.

• 1:58:48Speaker 08

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:58:49Jesse Michels?

  Because it's, it's this, it's both real and it's ephemeral. And so it's so co-opable.

• 1:58:54Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 1:58:54Jesse Michels?

  It's a Rorschach test. You can say it's, yeah, sure, yeah. You can say it's like all these things. Yeah, I know what Schrodinger, yeah, thank you.

• 1:59:03Speaker 09

  You know, he was a, all the physicists are, Schrodinger had a journal of the 12-year-old girls he would court. He said no one should go to, oh dude.

• 1:59:11Jesse Michels?

  Schrodinger?

• 1:59:12Speaker 09

  Yeah, oh.

• 1:59:14Jesse Michels?

  No.

• 1:59:14Speaker 09

  Were you looking to, oh, and how about the physicists?

• 1:59:16Jesse Michels?

  Done.

• 1:59:16Speaker 09

  I bet you met him, who invited Rogan to Epstein Island. These people, you'd be shocked.

• 1:59:21Jesse Michels?

  Wait, who invited Rogan to Epstein Island?

• 1:59:23Speaker 09

  Kraus.

• 1:59:24Speaker 08

  No shit?

• 1:59:24Jesse Michels?

  No, really, Lawrence Krauss.

• 1:59:25Speaker 08

  Really?

• 1:59:26Speaker 09

  Really, no, really. He's got a record.

• 1:59:27Jesse Michels?

  Lawrence Krauss is on Epstein Island, but did he invite, he invited Joe Rogan?

• 1:59:31Speaker 09

  Oh, yeah, I won't say no more than that. I mean, a lot of people got invited. A lot of people got invited.

• 1:59:35Speaker 08

  Stephen Hawking was out there as well.

• 1:59:37Speaker 09

  Oh, people go, I'm disappointed.

• 1:59:39Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:59:40Speaker 09

  If Stephen Hawking was there, he's the victim, stupid.

• 1:59:42Speaker 08

  Obviously. Obviously, right? Yeah, yeah. No, but I think, I think again, it's like, you know, like something like that. Something like that, though, it could be the fact that, you know, like, hey, uh, there's this individual called Jeffrey Epstein. He's very interested in science. He's funded a lot of stuff. Would you be willing to come to his private island? He'd love to like host you. And it's like, cool, I'll go do that. Then you leave. You had no idea that it was an island of rapists.

• 2:00:02Jesse Michels?

  A hundred percent. And they're arbitraging stagnation in academia. Where like, nothing vital or interesting is happening.

• 2:00:08Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 2:00:08Jesse Michels?

  So you pay them off, you have prestige, and you have, you even, you have probably of age girls, and some of these guys are single. I mean, for god's sakes, you have one paraplegic who can't talk or whatever, and it's like, they don't know. You know, and in certain cases, they probably did, but others, they didn't.

• 2:00:23Speaker 08

  It's a mixed bag.

• 2:00:23Speaker 09

  Friends of mine.

• 2:00:24Speaker 08

  Mix bag.

• 2:00:24Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:25Speaker 09

  I mean, Bobby Slayton went to his, I know Bobby Slayton did news on, a rich guy and you're a comic.

• 2:00:31Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:31Speaker 09

  Want to, let's hang out, go to this thing. You get creeped out and they're watching. How do you respond to this? Eric Weinstein explained it.

• 2:00:37Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:38Speaker 09

  They got the American flag coffin table to see if he'd spill his drink on it.

• 2:00:41Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. Well, the Weinstein thing's crazy, because he was like, it was almost like Epstein knew about his theory.

• 2:00:47Speaker 09

  Of course he did.

• 2:00:48Jesse Michels?

  Right, but like, right as he produced it, it was like Epstein was tracking that shit.

• 2:00:53Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 2:00:53Jesse Michels?

  And it was like, oh, you produced it? Boom, come up, like, you know, come.

• 2:00:56Speaker 08

  Bit too fast.

• 2:00:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, bit too fast.

• 2:00:58Speaker 09

  You don't think that one friend in Intel services do that?

• 2:01:00Jesse Michels?

  High frequency trader for like, theories of everything and interesting science and shit.

• 2:01:04Speaker 09

  Oh, that's interesting what you just said. It is like, because it's like, yeah, that's a good way to put it.

• 2:01:09Speaker 08

  Yeah, it is.

• 2:01:10Speaker 09

  It's rigged. You could bet in the market, but it's high frequency trading, so you'll never get access to it before certain people do.

• 2:01:17Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 2:01:17Speaker 09

  And that's how we have this secrecy.

• 2:01:19Jesse Michels?

  Well, I was kind of wondering, so this is getting into really weird territory, but it's like, I wonder if he was a flytrap for like, deeper like exotic propulsion science.

• 2:01:28Speaker 08

  Yeah, I wonder about that. I wonder about that.

• 2:01:30Jesse Michels?

  He was obsessed with the Casimir effect.

• 2:01:31Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:01:32Jesse Michels?

  The Casimir effect.

• 2:01:33Speaker 09

  Of course.

• 2:01:33Jesse Michels?

  The Casimir effect being like, you know, this sort of dark energy shown between two, uh, char, uh, non-charged but conductive plates that seem to attract.

• 2:01:42Speaker 08

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:01:42Jesse Michels?

  You know, that like, get goes, this is a real fork.

• 2:01:44Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:01:44Jesse Michels?

  And he's like, how could we harness this ostensibly for propulsion, like?

• 2:01:48Speaker 08

  I mean, this is like, not really like necessarily evidence, but I think it's interesting. There was that woman, I can't remember which one it was, who was a victim who did like the murals and the paintings.

• 2:01:55Jesse Michels?

  What Maria Farmer?

• 2:01:57Speaker 08

  Maria Farmer. And like they, there's a mural called like the Centiles, which is like the elites spelled backwards. And it's like this big mural of all the different people that were associated, Les Wexner. You can see all the characters. Ghislaine Maxwell's depicted as a dragon biting a child in half. It's all very nasty stuff. And then there's also a, uh, an antenna going up with an FBI flag on it with a flying saucer hanging off the top of it with Epstein's face inside the window.

• 2:02:21Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 2:02:21Speaker 08

  So it's like, okay, so like, who knew and what was he actually trying to achieve in terms of his own scientific ideas and explorations? And obviously, like I said, he's funding all of these different movements. He knew everyone on the Nobel Peace Prize board.

• 2:02:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 09

  I have an answer for you, brother, because, uh, I can, I give it up to fuck, to Daniel on this. Here's what, uh, what's his name? The wheelchair robot man with.

• 2:02:40Speaker 08

  Steven, Steven Organ.

• 2:02:42Speaker 09

  He was, uh, those ruins that came out in National Geographic of possible Atlantis, and then they never talked about it again.

• 2:02:47Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:02:47Speaker 09

  And the pictures were online, you can see him.

• 2:02:49Speaker 08

  Oh, the, what, underwater or?

• 2:02:50Speaker 09

  He went in a submarine to go look at that. Remember Ghislaine? Really cares about the ocean.

• 2:02:54Speaker 08

  Terrima, the Terrima Project. Like she had a whole thing going on there, which is interesting.

• 2:02:58Speaker 09

  She's the controller, not Epstein.

• 2:03:00Speaker 08

  Do you know about Terrima?

• 2:03:01Speaker 09

  She's the handler.

• 2:03:01Speaker 08

  Like their, kind of like, um, overseas and like Atlantic Ocean trading network they were trying to establish with people like, um, who's the guy behind Virgin?

• 2:03:11Jesse Michels?

  Uh, Branson.

• 2:03:12Speaker 08

  Branson. And like, he hosted them all on his island for the Terrima Project.

• 2:03:16Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:03:16Speaker 08

  Basically, these elites setting up some sort of like, I don't even know how to say it. Like, they kind of considered it their own country, because when she was being interviewed, um, she was asked if she's a, if she, if she's a citizen of any other country, and she said Terrima. It's like, okay, so what is Terrima?

• 2:03:32Speaker 09

  Oh, I forgot that, dude.

• 2:03:33Speaker 08

  She did. She said it was her other citizenship.

• 2:03:35Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:03:36Speaker 08

  And it's like this elite network of trading routes, trading routes and shipping containers, right? Going around places like near Antarctica, off the grid.

• 2:03:44Jesse Michels?

  What?

• 2:03:45Speaker 08

  And it was being held by all these fucking huge elites. So there's something about the Terrima Project, man, like,

• 2:03:49Speaker 09

  Dude, I forgot that.

• 2:03:50Speaker 08

  That went under the radar, like, yeah.

• 2:03:52Speaker 09

  No.

• 2:03:52Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:03:53Speaker 09

  Whoa, I forgot that. I didn't even know.

• 2:03:55Jesse Michels?

  Wild. Well, I sometimes wonder if on that note, this is crazy speculative, but like, you know, William Stevenson is?

• 2:04:02Speaker 08

  Maybe by face or name.

• 2:04:03Jesse Michels?

  He was, um, Churchill's super spy, but he helped start the CIA with Wild Bill Donovan, you know, OSS. And he was really close with a lot of like US-based scientists, like Charles Steinbrenner and Thomas Townsend Brown. They were close confidants. And he was doing a lot of stuff in and around the Caribbean, the Bahamas, the Virgin Islands.

• 2:04:21Speaker 08

  Uh huh.

• 2:04:22Jesse Michels?

  And he ended up spending the rest of his career in the Caribbean doing like shady trade stuff. And I wonder if there's a connection between, like, I feel like he and Robert Maxwell had to have known each other through MI6 circles or something. So I don't know. I mean, this is getting crazy.

• 2:04:38Speaker 08

  It is interesting.

• 2:04:39Speaker 09

  Eric Pecker said, did Eric, oh, I don't know if he said on a thing, but sort of people he worked for.

• 2:04:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:04:43Speaker 09

  So you know, people go Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, but he's not the richest man in the world. You, what do you think? They would put that in Forbes?

• 2:04:50Speaker 08

  Right. Richest man disclosed publicly.

• 2:04:51Speaker 09

  They're telling that to you, you idiot.

• 2:04:53Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:53Jesse Michels?

  I go back and forth on that. I don't know. Do you, are you guys sure?

• 2:04:56Speaker 08

  I mean, I'm not sure of anything.

• 2:04:57Jesse Michels?

  I'm not either. I'm not either.

• 2:04:59Speaker 09

  I'll bet a, I'll bet a million.

• 2:05:00Jesse Michels?

  I agree that like maybe it's like.

• 2:05:03Speaker 08

  I mean, you know.

• 2:05:04Jesse Michels?

  That's zero dollars.

• 2:05:05Speaker 08

  Old money people that have got like holdings in other countries and like vaults of treasure and things like that.

• 2:05:12Speaker 09

  People think, you know, poor people think people are rich and you're really, hey, you're a rich kid. And they, they have no concept of what it, what it's like at certain levels to not understand. The rich kids don't think they're rich. I'm not rich. That guy is rich. You know, you always have a new.

• 2:05:25Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:05:25Speaker 09

  And, and I live in New York and I did comedy, so I could just go to all the things and get a perspective on what shit is, right? And, uh, that's the compartmentalization and that's how it's supposed to be. And all the, so are there hybrid kids? Yeah. When they say bloodlines, it sounds spooky. Why do we keep track of royalty at all still? Does anybody wonder that? Why do I give a shit about Meghan and Harry and the Prince? British people I know don't even care about it. They're, I guess they're a human flag.

• 2:05:54Speaker 08

  Most, most of the younger generation fucking hate the royals.

• 2:05:57Speaker 09

  Of course. All populist things gotta be crushed.

• 2:06:00Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:06:01Speaker 09

  So how do you crush them? With nonsense distractions. It's, I mean, it's endless, dude.

• 2:06:08Speaker 08

  Well, I mean.

• 2:06:08Speaker 09

  We got woke after Al Capella Wall Street, remember that? Woke happened after that.

• 2:06:13Speaker 08

  And that is a way of controlling populism because, you know, what do we see these days when there's a populist front? It's just immediately a right wing, far right racist movement. And that's the way that we just regard it and we get rid of it. And it's like a lot of these populist movements are just popping up because of the fact that it's a direct reaction to institutional power and control and censorship. And they turn it around and they switch it to make it seem like you don't want to be supporting these. You realize these are Nazis or racists.

• 2:06:36Speaker 09

  But in Ukraine, it's cool.

• 2:06:37Speaker 08

  Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I can't deal with the hypocrisy.

• 2:06:40Speaker 09

  Those are the good ones.

• 2:06:41Speaker 08

  Can't deal with that hypocrisy, right? Like, let's all salute Azov Battalion. But, you know, don't worry about like this, these people who are just trying to create some freedom in their own country. Like, you know, it's crazy.

• 2:06:49Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 2:06:50Speaker 08

  But.

• 2:06:50Speaker 09

  United Fruit Company.

• 2:06:51Speaker 08

  We should talk about the, we should talk about the pyramids. We haven't even got it.

• 2:06:53Jesse Michels?

  I know, I know. I was.

• 2:06:54Speaker 09

  Oh, sorry.

• 2:06:55Jesse Michels?

  We gotta talk for a second.

• 2:06:56Speaker 09

  I gotta piss anyway, so.

• 2:06:57Speaker 08

  All right, so do I, but I'll let you go first.

• 2:06:59Jesse Michels?

  You go, come back.

• 2:07:03Speaker 08

  Maybe come back.

• 2:07:03Jesse Michels?

  Maybe come back.

• 2:07:06Jesse Michels?

  We've had Alex Jones on the show and Kurt, you are 10x crazier than Alex Jones.

• 2:07:11Speaker 09

  I know why the cage bird sings now. I used to judge Alex Jones, but I know why he's like that.

• 2:07:16Jesse Michels?

  He's a cage bird?

• 2:07:17Speaker 09

  Here, wait, hold the staff, I'm going.

• 2:07:21Jesse Michels?

  This is wonderful. Okay, you got this.

• 2:07:25Speaker 08

  I love him.

• 2:07:26Jesse Michels?

  Oh, he's fantastic.

• 2:07:27Speaker 08

  He's great.

• 2:07:27Jesse Michels?

  He's great, he's awesome.

• 2:07:29Speaker 08

  It's kind of like if you brought me in and we were like, right, let's get some like dude from the underpass on as well.

• 2:07:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:07:35Speaker 08

  Dressing his cape, like, let me tell you about the secrets of the Illuminati. Nah, Kurt.

• 2:07:38Jesse Michels?

  Or if we were both on a mega dose of LSD.

• 2:07:41Speaker 08

  That's what it feels like. Feels like I'm rolling on something pretty strong right now. No, that was really good, dude. Like, the pyramids, though, we should talk about that. We should get into that.

• 2:07:50Jesse Michels?

  What the fuck is going on? What's under the pyramids? What's happening? Because you're, you're in touch with the research team that found this through synthetic aperture radar Doppler tomography. These. Structures and they're reconstructing the structures, is any of this real?

• 2:08:04Speaker 08

  Yeah, I mean, like, my opinion on it is at this point, there's 100% things underneath the Giza Plateau and the pyramids. Whether or not we can completely correlate that to the very interesting 3D models that they've created. I think that's more of, you know, kind of an inspired artistic recreation. But at this point, I would say it's undeniable that they are finding significant subterranean signatures below the Giza Plateau. And like, there's been so many assumptions, like even actually driving here on the way. I got into a talk with my Uber driver and I was like, you heard about the pyramid scans? He was like, yeah, yeah, but like, none of it's been like done before and none of it's been peer reviewed, right? And I was like, no, that's not right. So in 2022, they actually did a Giza, um, the Great Pyramid Giza scans.

• 2:08:44Speaker 08

  And they found hidden chambers beneath the Great Pyramid, which they then were peer reviewed and accepted and is fully just like a validated thing. Now, granted, they weren't saying that there were huge structures underneath, but that's because they were tuning the technology to specifically look at a localized area of the pyramid. And that's when they found these hidden chambers at that time, 2022. But they've also done experiments in Italy at the Gran Sasso Laboratory, which is 1.4 kilometers inside a mountain. And they mapped it out, they mapped it out, they managed to find the centrifuge and like the areas that they were focusing on. And they've produced tomography scans showing the subterranean infrastructure of the Gran Sasso Laboratory. And they've also done the Mosul Dam in Iraq and they use it for structural integrity for bridges.

• 2:09:26Speaker 08

  Professor Filippo Bionde, who's the synthetic aperture radar expert on the team, works for the Italian government, serious guy. Real fun, like such a nice dude. And I've had like the pleasure of, because I put out that video, which was only like eight minutes long, just kind of saying, hey, guys, like, there's this team and they're doing this. Kind of blew up, Joe Rogan played it, like, you know, so like, I got connected to the team quite quickly because they saw my viral video on it. And, um, yeah, I was out in Malta with them a few days ago, actually, before the Carolina conference. And, uh, for their first international conference where Filippo Bionde was presenting in a lot more detail. The scans, the science behind it.

• 2:10:05Speaker 08

  Granted, some people struggle with the dialect. I think in the UK, it's a little easier for us because we're used to. European dialects like Italian and French and German and the Americans seem to struggle a bit more because they have got quite a thick accent and they are trying their best, but they're speaking English, which isn't their first language. But it's very interesting because what they're doing is they're not scanning two kilometers into the earth, five kilometers into the earth, like, you know, they're not penetrating using radar in that way because that's impossible. That's what a lot of the mainstream critiques were doing, including some people that I just think, why did you not do your homework like Flint Dibble, like this archaeologist in this world, right? Like, he's just like, they've never tested it. It's never been done. It's like, wrong, wrong, wrong. Like, they have, if you actually just spent 10 minutes trying to find it instead of having a knee jerk reaction because it's going against your model.

• 2:10:48Speaker 08

  And that seems to be such the case with mainstream archaeology, mainstream history and sciences. If it goes against the model, there's a knee jerk reaction and they didn't actually do the homework. So like, yeah, like.

• 2:10:59Jesse Michels?

  So we have detected other underground things using SAR Doppler tomography.

• 2:11:03Speaker 08

  Using SAR Doppler tomography.

• 2:11:04Jesse Michels?

  This is a thing that we can do.

• 2:11:06Speaker 08

  It's, well, it's a thing, but this is certainly a thing within a niche community and beyond a Filippo Bionde seems to be the one that's really specialized in that. So it's not like a general accepted mode. It's like a novel sensor fusion.

• 2:11:18Jesse Michels?

  But I even, it's funny, I even watched Sabina Hossenfelder's like video on this. She's a, you know, kind of a mainstream physicist.

• 2:11:25Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:11:26Jesse Michels?

  Critical of string theory and stuff, but like pretty conventional and like well regarded. And she was like, you can, you know, map magma chambers and volcanoes using SAR Doppler tomography. And then she, like you said, said that they took liberties, obviously on the reconstruction, you know, this sort of energy grid that it seems to be mapped out. That might be a bit of a stretch. I don't know.

• 2:11:48Speaker 08

  I think it's interesting that it doesn't sit in a vacuum because you've got historical reference to labyrinthine passageways beneath the plateau and entrance ways into the halls of records. Like there are, there are old, going all the way back to ancient Greece and further of like, you know, statements from people who went to Egypt and wrote about like being taken into these corridors. And then early like 1800s explorers who said the same kind of a thing.

• 2:12:11Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:12:12Speaker 08

  And then like I was saying to you before, even Zahia Was before about 1993 was saying the same thing.

• 2:12:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:17Speaker 08

  So like, you know, there is, there is definitely a path. To be connected in relation to like subterranean infrastructure and we find that across Egypt anyway regardless of the plateau like there's a lot of different places that are subterranean and seem to be of a different stonework of a different kind of method to what we then see of dynastic Egyptian temples.

• 2:12:34Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:35Speaker 08

  Same with the pyramids as well actually because one of the biggest signifiers of that is the fact that there's absolutely zero hieroglyphs in the pyramids, there's not one, other than the cartouche that's written in red ochre that we attribute to Khufu, which by the way if you look into the images of that red ochre cartouche that's been drawn on and compare it to some other red ochre marks that were found inside the pyramid, it's so obvious that this is basically just drawn on with lipstick, it's fresh, it's got like flaking from the ochre on it, but the older stuff, it's like the ochre's gone, it's just ionized onto the rocks, so it's like a shadow imprint of this very light red ochre. This stuff is like literally like someone got lipstick and that's the only thing that we attribute to Khufu for the Great Pyramid.

• 2:13:19Speaker 08

  This is like this 1800s explorer, I forgot his name, like Voss or Vass something, and he was hired by the British Museum, he was running out of funding, he was running out of time, low and behold, he suddenly finds the signatures of Khufu written in very suspicious ochre. So other than that, there's no hieroglyphs in the pyramids. Now I've been to like the Valley of the Kings and the Valley of the Queens where they've got these tombs and they've got these entrance ways and it is literally, you can't even find a square inch which isn't covered in motifs and symbols and gold calligraphy, go into the pyramids and it's just blank. There's literally nothing inside the pyramids other than precision engineering and the studies of acoustic signatures in the King's Chamber which show that it was acoustically engineered.

• 2:13:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:58Speaker 08

  And then like, you know.

• 2:13:59Jesse Michels?

  Do you think there was some sort of, because you've covered this in other contexts too, in Malta and other places, do you think there's some sort of ancient acoustic based technology?

• 2:14:08Speaker 08

  Yeah, this is one of the things that interests me the most and like we call it archaeoacoustics and there's also a term psychoacoustic architecture, the idea that some of this architecture is deliberately designed to produce harmonics that then influence the brain. And one second my brother, let me just get off this tangent and then so the really interesting.

• 2:14:28Jesse Michels?

  30 minutes uninterrupted.

• 2:14:29Speaker 08

  A really interesting. Element of like the acoustics, you just mentioned Malta.

• 2:14:33Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:14:34Speaker 08

  So I got back from Malta recently. There's a, there's a temple in Malta, this subterranean temple.

• 2:14:39Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:14:39Speaker 08

  Carved directly out of the limestone. They date it back to the Neolithic Stone Age period, but that's just because they can't date it back any further with conventional narratives, right?

• 2:14:48Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:49Speaker 08

  And this place is precision tuned to a hundred and eleven hertz. Like they've done enough studies in there to show that this place called the Oracle Room.

• 2:14:56Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:14:57Speaker 08

  Resonates at a hundred and eleven hertz. It's this like incredible overlapping architecture, like these kind of like multiple layers of, of like concaves and, and entrance ways. And inside the Maltese subterranean chamber of the hypergym, they actually found elongated skulls. One of them's on display in the Valletta Museum.

• 2:15:15Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:15:16Speaker 08

  And the interesting thing about these skulls in particular, unlike some of the ones in like Peru where you've got evidence of head binding. Is that this skull actually lacks the sagittal suture, which is the vertical crack that goes all the way down the head. When the two parietal bones are pushed together, when we go through the birth canal, infuses the skull together.

• 2:15:32Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:15:32Speaker 08

  So we have one going across here and then one going all the way down the skull. That one doesn't have it, doesn't have it. So that's like, and it's, it's an adult skull. It's not an infant skull. So this thing was walking, talking and acting around. Without a critical component of our bone structure.

• 2:15:47Jesse Michels?

  What do you make of that?

• 2:15:48Speaker 08

  Well, I mean, like there's one in Valletta, but the story goes, and it's even written in the museum and you hear it from the Maltese locals that they found fucking hundreds of these skulls, hundreds of these skulls. Then the guy who finds it mysteriously dies. Someone from like some Smithsonian institute takes over. All those skulls vanish away.

• 2:16:04Jesse Michels?

  What, what does that person look like in their time?

• 2:16:07Speaker 08

  Exactly. Like, you know, we don't know. Like, you know, there's, there's recreations of it that kind of look like an alien gray. Like, you know, it's like, they don't really know how it looked, but it's, it's elongated enough to be significantly different to a human being. And then like the Maltese legends in that area are that there were giants once on these islands and that they helped build these temples. Cause what's crazy about Malta. Other than the fact that it's the, it's got the largest concentration of megalithic stone building sites in the world. Like there are like so many there. But when the Bronze Age settlers from Italy and Sicily went over to Malta for the first time, they were already there. No people, just temples everywhere. And so we don't know who were the original builders of these temples, but it goes back to your question about acoustics.

• 2:16:49Speaker 08

  Like, there's so much acoustic knowledge that seems to be incorporated into megalithic, Neolithic, Stone Age, stone building cultures. And that is not something that you can just arrive at naturally. We're not talking about like the creation of a flute. We're talking about multi-ton geometric alignment, not just with solstice and equinox and all that incredible stuff, but also acoustically resonant in a way that when chanting or any sort of like mantra is performed in these sites, seems to excite the brain in certain ways, bringing it into alpha state, bringing it into meditative states of consciousness.

• 2:17:20Jesse Michels?

  Is that true?

• 2:17:20Speaker 08

  Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

• 2:17:21Jesse Michels?

  And how do we, how have we tested?

• 2:17:23Speaker 08

  So we've tested like things like Stonehenge, and again, the hypergym for the acoustic wavelength that's propagated naturally through it when we chant, when we hum, when we drum. And 111 hertz is what they find in the hypergym. There's like quite a few studies actually done on this where they've concluded that it's...

• 2:17:38Jesse Michels?

  And then what they're doing like?

• 2:17:39Speaker 08

  And then, so like you look at binaural tones and the Monroe Institute of Applied Sciences and the stuff that we're at a fledgling level. This is what's so impressive is that we seem, we seem to be at a very fledgling level of understanding the acoustic effects on the brain. And these people seem to have been fucking masters of it, like literally...

• 2:17:56Jesse Michels?

  But we'll like play like an instrument now, and then we'll, we'll do some like EEG scan of the brain or something while we're doing that in this hypergym structure and...

• 2:18:05Speaker 08

  Yeah, I mean, like, they've done a series of acoustic tests, not only just to check, test the bandwidth of it, which comes out 111 hertz, but then like actually module, like scanning the brains and seeing how people react inside these kind of a chamber. But also like, you know, you put some headphones on and listen to your favorite music. You can laugh, you can cry, you can wanna work out, wanna fight someone. Like, it changes your emotions. So we know that acoustics has a profound impact on our perception, our emotions. And yeah, the fact that some of these places seem to have been tuned to hertz ranges that excite the brain and change the brainwave state into theta and alpha. I would say that there is an ancient science of like conscious induction, like consciousness, acoustically induced, sorry, conscious expansion. And then you see these elongated heads, you start

• 2:18:50Speaker 08

  wondering, you know?

• 2:18:51Jesse Michels?

  See the elongated heads, you see astronomical alignment with a lot of this megalithic architecture that seems just very... Odd if not intentional, like it probably was intentional.

• 2:19:01Speaker 08

  Once you get a pattern around the world of different sites that have the same kind of a tuning, like New Grange in Ireland, Malta, the pyramids of Giza, like all of them have, I mean, the pyramids are an incredible example. It's a perfect scale. I can't actually remember what the scale is, but a lot of these places, like there'll be an error of margin of like the actual kind of hertz range.

• 2:19:18Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:19:19Speaker 08

  The pyramids are perfectly scaled as you kind of rise up through the Grand Gallery into the King's Chamber, the acoustic, the acoustics that have been picked up are like the perfect number. It's like no margin of error. So it's like this incredibly tuned building.

• 2:19:34Jesse Michels?

  So fascinating. And it's funny when, when you hear Randall Carlson or Graham Hancock or you know.

• 2:19:39Speaker 08

  I was hanging out with him.

• 2:19:40Jesse Michels?

  I love, how cool is he?

• 2:19:41Speaker 08

  He's such a cool guy. Yeah.

• 2:19:42Jesse Michels?

  He's the best. He's like Hagrid or something.

• 2:19:44Speaker 08

  Yeah, he is.

• 2:19:44Jesse Michels?

  The wizard from another.

• 2:19:45Speaker 08

  He's like our personal alternative history Hagrid.

• 2:19:47Jesse Michels?

  He's awesome. And like he'll, he'll say stuff, you know, about like possible, you know, ancient acoustic technology and you laugh it off. And then you realize that there, you've talked about this, there's a field called simatics.

• 2:19:58Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:19:58Jesse Michels?

  Where you put sand on vibrational plates. You know that there's a real effect there. We know that electromagnetic fields affect the body via, you know, cellular communication occurs via, you know, voltage gated ion channels, which get affected by local EMFs.

• 2:20:11Speaker 08

  So I was doing an interview of a guy called David Elkington recently, who's like a, he would call himself a recovering academic because he came from that world and is now seeing things in a different set of eyes. And he's really interested in the acoustics of the ancients. And I'm going to have some images of this in my podcast because he actually did some experiments alongside some other scientists in the King's Chamber where they, they stretched a membrane over the sarcophagus of the King's Chamber, like a cladney plate, like a simatic plate. And they put Egyptian sand on the plate and they sent vibrational frequencies that match the, the frequency of the King's Chamber through it and it turned into the Eye of Horus.

• 2:20:47Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:20:47Speaker 08

  Yeah. And I've seen photos of it where it literally is pretty much on point with the Eye of Horus, which would suggest what? That the King's Chamber was tuned to an acoustic, the, the simatic of which is a representation of part of their own language.

• 2:21:01Jesse Michels?

  Well, you see.

• 2:21:01Speaker 08

  Like what does that say?

• 2:21:02Jesse Michels?

  The, the level of sophistication well beyond us. I mean, you see like. You know, go to Chichen Itza and you like will clap and hear this bizarre noise. Or like, you know, during the equinox, you know, you get a snake running down the steps. And it's like, we could barely do that stuff now.

• 2:21:18Speaker 08

  And what did Tesla say about frequency and vibration that this is the key?

• 2:21:21Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 2:21:21Speaker 08

  This is the key to the universe, to understanding it. And I think that there's a real truth to that. And whatever these people in the prehistoric time were doing, they seem to have a very advanced knowledge of how to attain transcendental states through acoustics. And like you said, with the cymatics and the geometry, it is fascinating that when you vibrate these sands on these plates and you get these geometries that are essentially the visual signature of the sound you're hearing, you will then find them in pretty much every religion, monotheistic or otherwise, represented in the geometry of the cathedrals, in the paintings, in the motifs. Once you understand and look at and recognize cymatic geometry and what it is, you go into these places with new eyes, man. You're staring around and you're just like, well, there we go. There's a clear pattern that is a harmonic signature and it's written on the wall.

• 2:22:06Speaker 08

  And so it would seem, and also what's one of the most prominent things inside of churches? It's not actually the crucifix, it's the pipe organ. The pipe organ is the most prominent thing. I think that these places were deliberately designed and like the Gothic cathedrals are a fantastic example of potentially reaching an apex point with this. You know, this lineage of acoustic knowledge that seems to stretch all the way back into prehistory.

• 2:22:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, well, even the Freemasons would say like the brothers of the serpent from Egypt or there's some like connection.

• 2:22:32Speaker 08

  They had their hand in building the Gothic temples.

• 2:22:33Jesse Michels?

  Building Gothic temples, yeah.

• 2:22:35Speaker 08

  And these things are not just geometrically incredible when you look at them, but they are also acoustically profound and like, you know, meant to be these spaces for induction into the mysteries via sound.

• 2:22:44Jesse Michels?

  Speaking of acoustics, you've talked to Stuart Hameroff, an ethnomusicologist who's also.

• 2:22:50Speaker 08

  Fascinating.

• 2:22:50Jesse Michels?

  Fascinating guy, worked with Roger Penrose, Nobel Prize winning physicist who dares to broach the question in physics, how do we see kind of macroscopic reality when it's sort of supposed to be quantum and probabilistic? And I think they present a very bold theory that might be right, I don't know. But it deals with this sort of, I think maybe the most underrated part of it is that there could be some geometric component because there are pyramidal structures in the tubulin and the microtubulin, right?

• 2:23:18Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:23:18Jesse Michels?

  And that, those maintain coherence.

• 2:23:20Speaker 08

  Yep, as above, so below.

• 2:23:21Jesse Michels?

  Right. So you wonder maybe if like you're in one of these sort of mega structures.

• 2:23:26Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:23:27Jesse Michels?

  Does that somehow affect, does it, does it, if, if, if these things are maintaining coherence for a certain amount of time while spacetime superposition is building up to the one graviton limit, does that increase the amount of time so that you're staying in a coherent state? And then your perception presumably would be very altered?

• 2:23:46Speaker 08

  I think that might play a role. I think that might play a role. And like, you know, this is again, it's such an interesting thing when you look at like the, the bleeding edge of mainstream physics and then quantum theory. And they're only just getting to a point that seems to have been represented in the ancient past. Now, I'm not going to say that they were quantum physicists, but they might have got it from intuitive processes or maybe older knowledge, but it's clearly represented in things like the pyramids and the hypergeum, this kind of acoustic technology. And then, like you say, when we get into what that really does on the quantum level, on the level of microtubules and neurons, it changes us. It changes our perception. And maybe, like you say, this is an elongation of the process, kind of like drawing the process out even longer through sitting in these acoustic resonance complexes. But the pyramids are

• 2:24:30Speaker 08

  a weird one because there's a lot of different ideas and theories about what they could have been.

• 2:24:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:35Speaker 08

  And multiple make sense. So it's almost like we're looking at a multivariate technology. It could do quite a few different things. A really interesting guy that I bumped into in Malta, and I'm gonna actually go out and meet him in Cairo when I go out there next month, because he lives out in Cairo with his girlfriend. He's American, but he's lived out there for a while. His name's Jeffrey. I can't remember his second name, but he's got a YouTube channel called The Land of Chem. You might have heard of it.

• 2:24:58Jesse Michels?

  No, I've never heard of it.

• 2:24:58Speaker 08

  Have you heard of it? Yeah, yeah. It's, it's really interesting. His theory on like, how these, these were essentially giant chemical plants. And, uh, cause, cause Egypt was originally called Kemet, and that's where we get chemistry from and alchemy. Like, yeah, like the, the buildup from that comes to alchemy and chemistry and like, you know, Hermes, Trismagistus, and all these like, you know, alchemical type of minds. And it's really interesting when you kind of understand that these things were situated around a waterbed at one point. The Nile River was right next to them.

• 2:25:29Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:25:29Speaker 08

  And then if we invoke these strange... Spiraling structures that they seem to have found, it could almost be drawing water up and producing an oasis, right? These things might have actually been agricultural nodes

• 2:25:41Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:25:42Speaker 08

  that promoted fertility in the local area.

• 2:25:44Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:25:45Speaker 08

  And it's really interesting, I mean, his idea about it, because it even extends to like the dolmens and the henges that we find all over the world. They're all made out of like piezoelectric materials, rose quartz, like something high quartz concentration. And what his theory was, and I'll murder it because I don't know it properly, but it is really interesting, was that these are conduits for lightning. And the lightning would excite the piezoelectric materials. And this would in turn cause natron, I think it's called, to be infused into the ground, which promotes fertility and growth.

• 2:26:15Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 2:26:15Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 2:26:16Jesse Michels?

  It's like a terraforming technology or something.

• 2:26:18Speaker 08

  Like a type one civilization of a different order using holistic technology from the earth, right?

• 2:26:23Jesse Michels?

  It's so trippy, but that would so explain, I mean, I don't know. But it's like the, why is quartz being taken from the Aswan River Valley?

• 2:26:31Speaker 08

  Five hundred miles.

• 2:26:33Jesse Michels?

  Miles away.

• 2:26:33Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:26:34Jesse Michels?

  It's crazy.

• 2:26:34Speaker 08

  In the form of fifty to seventy ton blocks.

• 2:26:36Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:26:36Speaker 08

  Which is just insane.

• 2:26:37Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:26:37Speaker 08

  And one of the things I brought up in my presentation, which is not necessarily about that kind of technology or lightning strikes or anything, but just about multi-ton stone lifting, is a place in Lebanon called Baalbek.

• 2:26:47Jesse Michels?

  Okay.

• 2:26:47Speaker 08

  Interesting place, named after Baal, the storm lord, Baal, you know, this like, and it's the Baalbek, lord of the Bekah Valley.

• 2:26:55Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:26:55Speaker 08

  Which funnily enough, if you read the Book of Enoch, the watchers, right, the weird beings came down on Mount Hernan in Lebanon.

• 2:27:02Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 2:27:03Speaker 08

  So this is like this weird ground zero point for the ancient stories of these, fucking wherever these beings were, right? But Baalbek in Lebanon, there's a quarry site where you've got three megalithic blocks that weigh, one of them's like one thousand two hundred tons, and it goes up to one thousand eight hundred tons, absolutely insane megalithic blocks made of limestone. They never left the quarry, but five hundred meters up the road, give or take, you've got this place called the Temple of Jupiter, which we attribute to first century Romans. A lot of the temple was built by first century Romans, it's obvious. But the foundations and some of the upper tiers of the foundations, right? There's a series of stones called the trilithon stones, which are raised about thirty feet above the foundation blocks and placed with precision.

• 2:27:44Speaker 08

  They weigh conservative range, eight hundred tons each, coming up to about a thousand tons. The Romans bragged about their heaviest lift, which was the Lateran Oblisk, which sits in Rome, taken from Alexandria to Rome, weighs about 350 to 400 tonnes. So even at a conservative estimate, these Baalbek stones are double the weight of what the Romans claimed to be their heaviest lift. They never spoke about Baalbek, they never spoke about lifting these stones. But mainstream archaeologists will attribute it to the first century Romans because they found the foundation and they built their Roman temple above it. So they look at it, go, Roman temple, it's all Roman. What about those 800 ton stones that were impossible for them to lift with wooden pulleys? No, Roman, shut up.

• 2:28:22Jesse Michels?

  Eight hundred?

• 2:28:23Speaker 08

  Yeah, eight hundred, and that's conservative, they could be up to 1K.

• 2:28:26Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:28:26Speaker 08

  And like, to give you some like, you know, perspective on that, you'd need like, one of the biggest cranes in the world, like I think it's called like the Liba 17000 or something, to actually lift that with precision and place it. And we believe that they did it with wooden pulleys and ropes.

• 2:28:38Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 2:28:39Speaker 08

  It's ridiculous and crazy. So like, there are so many places around the world where it seems ancient foundations, Peru as well, Peru is like,

• 2:28:46Jesse Michels?

  Peru's full of them.

• 2:28:47Speaker 08

  Smoking gun of ancient history and contrasting between what we attribute to the Inca and what is so clearly megalithic multi-ton precision from a time long before them.

• 2:28:56Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 2:28:57Speaker 08

  And even they will say that, like the indigenous oral traditions of the Peruvian shamans will say that they found Saxa of Merne.

• 2:29:03Jesse Michels?

  Maybe look at the Nazca Lines.

• 2:29:04Speaker 08

  The Nazca Lines.

• 2:29:05Jesse Michels?

  There are no roads leading up to the lines.

• 2:29:08Speaker 08

  No, sir, no.

• 2:29:08Jesse Michels?

  So you'd be like, excavating all this earth, but you don't know how or for what.

• 2:29:12Speaker 08

  For what?

• 2:29:13Jesse Michels?

  And then from the highest vantage point locally, the lines don't make any sense. You have to be at least like, I think, 150 metres in the air.

• 2:29:21Speaker 08

  Totally in aerial.

• 2:29:22Jesse Michels?

  In an aerial, yeah, for it to make any sort of comprehensive sense. It makes no, it literally like, doesn't make sense unless you're from aerial perspective. So it's, I was gonna ask you actually, on the Malta thing, if you have these sort of beings with elongated, it's called, I was just down in Peru.

• 2:29:38Speaker 08

  Oh, I'm so jealous. How long were you there for?

• 2:29:40Jesse Michels?

  Uh, two days. Don't be jealous, man.

• 2:29:42Speaker 08

  That's not enough time.

• 2:29:43Jesse Michels?

  Not at all. Don't be jealous, because it was, I was in and out, I got sick.

• 2:29:46Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, I know, yeah.

• 2:29:47Jesse Michels?

  But, but, I, um, there are these, there's three fingered, three-toed beings, the tridactyl beings or whatever. And they, apparently according to these forensic experts, Don't appear to have undergone the sort of traditional head binding rituals that you'd expect.

• 2:30:04Speaker 08

  Right. And some of them apparently have like metal inside them.

• 2:30:07Jesse Michels?

  They have osmium and cadmium inside of them, which are rare earth metals that were found in the 18th and 19th century. So, super strange.

• 2:30:17Speaker 08

  You know what's weird about that as well is I kind of feel like there was an intelligence psyop done on that very early on. Because Jaime Musan showing those kind of ones that were absolutely fake, like the ones that were literally just like bone and plastic.

• 2:30:30Jesse Michels?

  I'm not even, oh, oh, yeah.

• 2:30:31Speaker 08

  No, there was one that was like proven to just be bullshit.

• 2:30:34Jesse Michels?

  That was Flavio Estrada.

• 2:30:35Speaker 08

  Oh, my, I apologize Jaime Musan for attributing that to you.

• 2:30:38Jesse Michels?

  Well, because, well, this is, it is important because Jaime has gotten so much flack. And I'm sure he has gotten behind BS, you know, hoaxers in the past, but I spent some time with the guy and like, he's just a cool, he's like, he's, he's, he looks at the fact pattern and he's, he's, he's extremely open about scientists coming down, like taking, he spent a ton of his own money to like protect this stuff. And he's very like boldly stated in a way where like he gets stuff wrong. But he's like, it's real, you know, like that's, but I, he, I got no like weird syrupicious vibe.

• 2:31:12Speaker 08

  What I meant by that is like the, early on, before the tridactyls, before these very impressive large ones were really discovered, there was that little one.

• 2:31:19Jesse Michels?

  So that, so in 2023, so Jaime rolled out the J type, which is not my highest conviction body type for being real. There's an M type, those are like the more hominid ones. The J types look more like the kind of Close Encounters of the Third Kind thing, but they also look reptilian. The bodies look a little, they look fake. And so I wouldn't have rolled out one of those.

• 2:31:38Speaker 08

  These ones don't look fake.

• 2:31:40Jesse Michels?

  These ones, the M types.

• 2:31:41Speaker 08

  These ones do not look fake.

• 2:31:41Jesse Michels?

  Don't look fake at all. And so he rolled that out, but what you might be referencing is then at the airport, there's this guy named Manuel Caseras, who's a local journalist who made. Merchandise as a knockoff of that.

• 2:31:54Speaker 08

  That might be where I'm getting my wires crossed.

• 2:31:55Jesse Michels?

  And everybody got their wires crossed.

• 2:31:58Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:31:58Jesse Michels?

  Because then Reuters picked that up and this guy Flavio Estrada, this official archaeologist from the Ministry of Culture, that's similar to Zayouas, man. It's the same shit.

• 2:32:05Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:32:06Jesse Michels?

  They were like, this is fake because of this like wood glued, you know, these things stuck together, which are obviously.

• 2:32:11Speaker 08

  Obviously.

• 2:32:12Jesse Michels?

  And I interviewed this guy and he's like, this was art. This was not the real thing. And he's like yelling and stuff. I repeat, that one is fake. It's craftsmanship, constructed, built. So what I find interesting is when you were describing your Maltese, the, the.

• 2:32:27Speaker 08

  The heads, yeah.

• 2:32:28Jesse Michels?

  That sounded so similar to honestly what I saw. I was like, maybe there were some beings or whatever.

• 2:32:33Speaker 08

  I mean, I don't discount it, man. I really don't because there's so many references in different cultures and countries to, you know, the times of giants. And it's like.

• 2:32:41Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:32:41Speaker 08

  I love that in Genesis, like not that I've really read the Bible, but I love that in Genesis where it's just like, there were giants in those times and in the times before that, great mighty men of renown.

• 2:32:51Jesse Michels?

  Yep.

• 2:32:52Speaker 08

  Anyway, moving on. It's like, whoa, I want to know a bit more about the giants, please. But you know, they don't really tell you much about it. I think that there's a level of truth to at least some sort of interface with something that if not giant in stature, giant in intellect.

• 2:33:04Jesse Michels?

  Hmm.

• 2:33:05Speaker 08

  Right? That we, I mean, you go down to like the Dendara temples in Egypt where you've got the light bulb, you know, the kind of the classic light bulb. Oh, it's incredible. Like, you know, people call it a light bulb or a crook's tube because it's like this big Atlantean style like pharaoh. And the only reason you can say he's a big pharaoh is because you've got depictions of very little people below, like kind of praying and like in reverence of him.

• 2:33:27Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:33:27Speaker 08

  And he's holding, you know this, right, Kurt? He's holding this giant, um, kind of like bowled out, you must, it's such a famous.

• 2:33:34Jesse Michels?

  Maybe, I don't know.

• 2:33:35Speaker 08

  Um, but it's like this big light bulb almost with a snake running through it.

• 2:33:40Jesse Michels?

  Ah.

• 2:33:40Speaker 08

  And there's even like a cord that's coming back through it and then running along the, uh, the wall into like a box that's just like etched into it, right? It's a very interesting iconography of, and it's not repeated around Egypt. This is just in this subterranean element of the Dendara temple. I've got footage, so I can send it to you.

• 2:33:56Jesse Michels?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:33:56Speaker 08

  Lace it in or whatever, like that.

• 2:33:58Jesse Michels?

  Do it.

• 2:33:58Speaker 08

  Um, but you know, this, this whole, this whole idea. Idea of like intellectual giants, you know, like people who were just so superior to us. You know, you think of like Gobekli Tepe in Turkey, where we attributed that area to just hunter gatherers. Then low and behold, this, you know, incredible ancient, the oldest megalithic temple site pops up out of the ground. And the mainstream will just say, oh, I guess the hunter gatherers did that. It's like, well, that makes absolutely no fucking sense. Because they, did they get out of their deer hide tents one day and just start erecting multi-ton stone with astronomy?

• 2:34:27Jesse Michels?

  It's like a sundial, it's like.

• 2:34:28Speaker 08

  Like a sundial, and it was purposely buried, intentionally buried. So I, I get the sense that maybe they were like, you know, kind of like survivors of that pre-time. Like this cataclysm that I think clearly did take place. There was pockets of survivors who went and where would you go? You'd go to the hunter gatherers, right? You'd go to the ones who knew how to live, because you're just a fucking idiot. You're an intellectual. You've been preaching in Atlantis for all your life. You're not someone who can like, you know what I mean?

• 2:34:52Speaker 09

  You know what iconoclasm is?

• 2:34:53Speaker 08

  Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly.

• 2:34:55Speaker 09

  Could Gobekli Tepe be iconoclasm?

• 2:34:57Speaker 08

  It could be. Yeah, I think it could, exactly. And but it's, it's interesting how, you know, this place is buried over. And it just makes me wonder about like, you know, the, the hunter gatherers of that era. And maybe they were like, you know what? We don't want you doing this again. Look what you brought down upon this world by inciting the wrath of gods. You tried to be the gods.

• 2:35:17Jesse Michels?

  So they were like, they went like Luddite on like.

• 2:35:20Speaker 08

  They fucking murdered these people and buried their site.

• 2:35:23Jesse Michels?

  That's silly.

• 2:35:24Speaker 08

  Like, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing this again. I wonder about that. But this idea of like, instead of literal giants, giants of intellect, for sure, I think was the thing.

• 2:35:32Speaker 09

  Well, stood on the shoulders of giants.

• 2:35:33Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, exactly, right?

• 2:35:35Jesse Michels?

  Well, I find this, this, the time we're in so exciting because I, I was just actually in the context of looking into these Peruvian mummies. I was looking up how many, like, how fast these discoveries are occurring. And so I was, I was doing this kind of calculation about like, how much older has our civilization just gotten in the last 70 years? And like, all these megalithic sites, a lot of them are like the last 70 to 100 years that we. I mean, archaeology as a field is only 200 years old.

• 2:36:05Speaker 08

  Exactly.

• 2:36:05Jesse Michels?

  So it's almost, you should, we should come up with some law where it's like, the older the field gets, you're, the civilization's gonna get older, right? Like sophisticated civilization. It's not like the Mesopotamia cradle of civilization thing is bullshit.

• 2:36:17Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 2:36:18Jesse Michels?

  And then similarly, I was looking up hominids and like, we have 21 to 30, depending on like, how you, you know, categorize a hominid.

• 2:36:26Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:36:26Jesse Michels?

  Overall, that have ever walked the earth. Guess how many of those have been discovered in the last 10 years?

• 2:36:33Speaker 08

  Oh, go on.

• 2:36:34Jesse Michels?

  Five as your base case, and then depending on how, again, strict you are with peer review and that sort of thing, 10 at the highest. So that's crazy.

• 2:36:43Speaker 08

  There's a lot of them out there still that we haven't managed to categorize and understand.

• 2:36:46Jesse Michels?

  So many. So I look at this thing in Peru and I'm like, I feel like, you know, I talked about this with Rogan a bunch and I'm like, was I?

• 2:36:54Speaker 08

  You crushed it, by the way. You crushed it.

• 2:36:55Jesse Michels?

  Thanks, man. Well, I almost-

• 2:36:56Speaker 08

  That's the hot seat of all hot seats. You did a great job.

• 2:36:58Jesse Michels?

  I was fucking nervous as hell.

• 2:37:00Speaker 08

  Yeah, I bet you were. I bet you were.

• 2:37:01Jesse Michels?

  I was fucking so nervous, but, um, like when this came up, I almost, my self critique is like, I was too conservative. Like, I, I, gun in my head, man, I think, I think we found a new hominid, uh, creature. And we're gonna DNA test it very soon. We're gonna do another DNA test. So like-

• 2:37:18Speaker 08

  What? You found it in Peru?

• 2:37:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, so it's in Peru and not because of me, but Jaime and, uh, my other friend is making this epic documentary. This guy, Michael Mazzola-

• 2:37:27Speaker 08

  Right. Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:28Jesse Michels?

  -make this documentary called This Is Not A Hoax. Good dude.

• 2:37:30Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:37:31Jesse Michels?

  He's gonna, uh, uh, uh, he's DNA testing it with these like independent aerospace contractors.

• 2:37:36Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:37:36Jesse Michels?

  And they're gonna do some double-blind stuff, so there's no cheating allowed. So I love, and that's why when people like, you know, come at Jaime, the fact that Jaime is down to do this in a way that it could totally falsify, you know, everything, is fucking awesome. And so I'm so pumped for this to just, you know, it's, I think the definition of a, of a grifter is someone who wants to keep something in a liminal space.

• 2:38:00Speaker 08

  Absolutely.

• 2:38:00Jesse Michels?

  I want it to collapse into true or false and let's, let's see.

• 2:38:04Speaker 08

  I want, I want these things to be proven. That's why I'm in it. I want it to be evidenced, you know? And I also think it's a BS excuse. Like, there's so many things to cover and there's so many anomalies in the world. You're never gonna run out of mysteries to talk about. You know what I mean?

• 2:38:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:14Speaker 08

  Let's try and prove some mysteries. Let's, let's do that.

• 2:38:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:17Speaker 08

  There's so many. There's a backlog, you know what I mean? But, you know, one thing, do you wanna hear my weird idea about the grays?

• 2:38:22Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, let's hear it.

• 2:38:24Speaker 08

  Like, I don't know if this would explain everything in relation to the grays, but I find it very interesting that there's a lot of Aboriginal stories from around the world that seem to be applicable to the grays. And you see some cave art in places like Australia and even the Native Americans, where you've got these large eyes, these large heads and this depiction of them. And there's certain tribes, like the Hopi tribe, you've got the ant people, and like these different stories where they would come up from the ground and they would assist people during times of great trouble and strife and geological trauma and famine, and they would teach them, right? And then you look at, there was a fascinating podcast that went out a few years ago where these two guys got some Amazonian tribesmen on the show. And they were straight up from the Amazon basin. They only spoke their own language, they needed an interpreter, they were in the headdress,

• 2:39:08Speaker 08

  they were fully, you know, of that culture. And they asked them if they had any thoughts on aliens. They didn't know what they meant by alien. They were like, I'm sorry, can you explain that better? And so they got a magazine out and they're flipping through. They found an alien gray. And they showed this alien gray and the Amazonian tribesman went, that's Maknoabu. That's Maknoabu. And then they went into this whole thing about how Maknoabu is a human that became an ant and it lives underground and it can appear in the divine light of Mishipan or whatever it was, which is their version of the holy light of something, right? And it's a very dangerous creature and it will take your soul underground and you need a very good shaman to bring your soul back. And they were taking it very seriously. This other tribesman was going, yes, yes, yes, Maknoabu, you need to be very careful with that.

• 2:39:53Speaker 08

  And so my idea about this is that maybe, maybe there is a subterranean species that has lived on this planet for a long time. And a bit like the mycelial network, it went for the subterranean route. It didn't get affected by the surface traumas that happened to us. It didn't get reset by great fires and floods because they were deep into the ground. And if that's true, you have all these indigenous stories of, you know, beings coming from the underworld and assisting them. Big eyes, translucent gray skin, no sunlight, large eyes to adapt underground. And you hear like the inner earth stories and also coming out of our oceans, right? You know, these UFOs. What if, just what if, there is another, and the missing subcategories of humans like you just mentioned, right? And in Peru you've got a tunnel.

• 2:40:34Speaker 08

  So what if, just as an idea, there is a species that decided to opt in for subterranean living? And has essentially been undisturbed since the beginning. And they are really, really, really advanced.

• 2:40:46Jesse Michels?

  Right.

• 2:40:47Speaker 08

  And that's what we think of the greats.

• 2:40:48Jesse Michels?

  So this fascinating.

• 2:40:50Speaker 08

  Just an idea.

• 2:40:51Jesse Michels?

  Could, could, who knows?

• 2:40:52Speaker 08

  Throwing it out there.

• 2:40:53Jesse Michels?

  Well, well, yeah, why not? And when they are, they're very similar to us. And in Calqui, which is the local dialect of where these, you know, in Aska in Peru, where these mummies were found.

• 2:41:04Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:41:05Jesse Michels?

  The, the, the local region translates to laboratory for insemination and hybridization.

• 2:41:12Speaker 08

  What?

• 2:41:12Jesse Michels?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:41:15Speaker 08

  In the actual language?

• 2:41:16Jesse Michels?

  Yes. And you can see this, there's a book from 2006 where it shows this or whatever.

• 2:41:21Speaker 08

  Blowing my mind.

• 2:41:22Jesse Michels?

  In nuts, nuts. So a part of me wonders, yeah, I mean, maybe there is some sort of guided, you know, like, maybe evolution is a locally functional theory via Darwin. But maybe there, you know, some, some artificial interference.

• 2:41:37Speaker 08

  Well, I think what would happen to us if we opted for underground, subterranean, dark living? You know, your eyes, your, your skin, it's all going to change dramatically. And yeah, I just wonder because obviously they seem so hyper advanced, whoever the grays are, you know, either being in flying sources or literally just appearing in your bedroom at night or apparently helping tribes.

• 2:41:53Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:54Speaker 08

  They seem to have a vested interest in us for some reason. Some would say it's experimentation, others would, might say that they're actually, you know, caring for us in some way. But yeah, the idea that this could actually be, like you say, one of those missing subsections of the human, of the human lineage. And they've just gone for that underground living and they interface with us selectively.

• 2:42:11Jesse Michels?

  Have you read this book called The Coming Race?

• 2:42:14Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, yeah, Edward Bullwinkle, yeah, that's the favorite of every neo-Nazi, right? Because whenever I put that out there, people are like, why are you promoting this Nazi material?

• 2:42:23Jesse Michels?

  Because Hitler was into it or something?

• 2:42:24Speaker 08

  Yeah, well, you know, and this is what got Graham Hancock in trouble is when he went out and was talking about Atlantis, suddenly you had Rolling Stones and, you know, the independent thing, he's a racist, right-wing propaganda.

• 2:42:34Jesse Michels?

  Graham Hancock's the most like boomer liberal.

• 2:42:37Speaker 08

  Dude, he's got a multicultural family, for the love of God. Like, you know, his wife's like, you know, dark-skinned and like, he's been called this racist piece of shit by the media.

• 2:42:45Jesse Michels?

  And at the end of all of his speeches, he goes, "We need no nations." And we're like, what are you, that guy?

• 2:42:49Speaker 08

  You racist, like, God. But like, you know, but it's interesting, uh, yeah, the Nazis were obsessed with Atlantis, like, the top tier of the SS and like, certain elements of the SS believed that the Germanic, uh, race was a seed race that came from these like, like, Limeria and Atlantis. And they had a term for like, the Hyperborians or something like that. And they would go all over, this is what's so crazy for a lot of people. It's like, they see Indiana Jones, they just think that's a film, that was a straight-up documentary, man.

• 2:43:15Jesse Michels?

  No, Heinrich Himmler was looking for the Ark of the Covenant.

• 2:43:17Speaker 08

  They were like, they were going through Peru and Nepal and Tibet. There's photos of them with like, you know, these like, high llamas and they're like swastikas in the background. It's like, no, they were legitimately interested in doing that kind of stuff. And the issue that you run into these days is if you try and invoke Atlantis, or you try and invoke Limeria and you try and talk about that, the mainstream will say, well, you're just promoting racist, right-wing ideology. This is the talking points of the Nazis. It's like, well, only because they found out about this stuff, are you waiting to text, man? Like, don't lump in the idea of Atlantis with neo-Nazis and ideology of that era. Like, it doesn't make any sense. They just picked up on it and became interested. But it's used as a way to attack, and that's what happened with Graham, very noticeably.

• 2:43:57Jesse Michels?

  Yeah. No, there are always ways to bucket in, I mean, Nietzsche or whatever was not necessarily a Nazi. It was like a sister that got in with the Nazis. It's just crazy. It's this mushy brain thinking and ways to scapegoat people ad hominem, but.

• 2:44:11Speaker 08

  What do you, what do you think about anti-gravity research and how far they got ahead? Because that's one of the big, like, lines of lore is like, oh, it's German tech, it's German tech.

• 2:44:20Jesse Michels?

  Dude, I don't know, but I find myself, the Scylla and Charybdis for me are like. The people that say there's nothing, because dude, I'm so high conviction in the Townsend Brown stuff.

• 2:44:30Speaker 08

  Oh, for sure.

• 2:44:30Jesse Michels?

  And a lot of the, you know, Comler Staub was totally real. And I think they were doing some really trippy shit.

• 2:44:36Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:44:36Jesse Michels?

  I don't know exactly, I know way more fundamentally about what Brown was actually doing versus the Comler Staub people. There's a lot of reason to believe, I think, Comler Staub was doing frontier, interesting stuff that got, and that was part of the impetus for Paperclip. And why we needed it so badly and that the Habermol side made it to Russia, but we, you know, needed to get a lot. And we now even have Air Force documents, knowing that Hans Comler was apprehended by the Americans. So I think there's something real there. And then Townsend Brown himself parachuted behind enemy lines into Nazi Germany. And there's a telegram from William Stevenson, who I mentioned earlier.

• 2:45:12Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:45:12Jesse Michels?

  You know, inspiration for James Bond.

• 2:45:14Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:45:14Jesse Michels?

  To Josephine, who's Townsend Brown's wife, saying that, you know, your husband is safe, but he's been injured. And there's a photo of him in Catalina, he's recovering.

• 2:45:23Speaker 08

  Wow.

• 2:45:24Jesse Michels?

  Lung injury. Yeah, so.

• 2:45:25Speaker 08

  Know that.

• 2:45:26Jesse Michels?

  I think there's some weird connections there for sure. And then the Sylla, the Sylla and Charybdis is the people who are like, there's nothing here. Where they're posturing around, you know, even, I love Eric Weinstein, but even him is like.

• 2:45:37Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:45:38Jesse Michels?

  He, it's always like hedging where it's like, you know, there's a lot of, you know, disinfo in the space and like, like, but like, look first principles at the Brown stuff. Like, there is something there. So there's like this side where I like, I have to argue that there's something real here. And then there's like the Ashton Forbes side.

• 2:45:52Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:45:52Jesse Michels?

  Where like, again, nothing against him and like, I'm down to have him on my show, like whatever. But like, he is so sure that we have like teleportation tech in, you know, deep black circles. And I'm like, dude, where are you getting this?

• 2:46:05Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:46:06Jesse Michels?

  Why, how can you know?

• 2:46:07Speaker 08

  Me and him bobbed heads quite a few times online. And then he was at the conference I was at a couple of days ago, it was the first time I met him.

• 2:46:13Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:14Speaker 08

  Yeah, we shook, we shook hands and became friends in that sense.

• 2:46:16Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:17Speaker 08

  I don't agree with him and I think MH370 is fake.

• 2:46:19Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I said, no, I basically feel the same way. And I'm still happy to talk to the guy. But like, so I feel like those are the two, the two failure. But, but the Brown stuff, I'm pretty sure is real.

• 2:46:31Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 2:46:31Jesse Michels?

  I'm pretty sure it was classified.

• 2:46:32Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:46:32Jesse Michels?

  And then to me, it's just a black box as to where that. What happened next? And we were talking earlier about the disclosure stuff. That felt like I'll fucking talk to anybody. I don't care who they are. And you know, what their past is or whatever. The brown stuff for me popped. It was like the most orthogonal to like all of the like shit getting like quote unquote, like, you know, steaming, you know?

• 2:46:55Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:46:55Jesse Michels?

  Like it was like this came out of left field. So like, I know that shit's fucking real. It wasn't like somebody came out and was doing like the circuit of interviews and like saying something.

• 2:47:04Speaker 08

  No, there's a trail of receipts for that.

• 2:47:05Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:47:06Speaker 08

  Absolutely.

• 2:47:07Jesse Michels?

  So I I'm really high conviction in that. And then beyond that, man, I don't fucking know. And it frustrates me and I wish we could make progress. I don't know. What do you think?

• 2:47:14Speaker 08

  No, I'm in agreement with you. I I find it fascinating, like, where do these stories come from? Like, you know, the idea of like the the Brille discs and, you know, like the Nazi bell and, you know, so what's the origin point for this? Is it disinformation? Is it a smokescreen from Western intelligence, you know, during paperclip? And like, right, let's say this stuff and we'll do this stuff over here. Look at the right hand while the left hand's doing something else. You know what I mean? Like, I think that there is a hell of a lot of kind of smokescreening involved in some of these rich laws within ufology, because it's about trying to protect the technology and and keep it away from people. So distraction techniques that will send someone off on a paper trail that leads nowhere.

• 2:47:50Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:47:51Speaker 08

  You know what I mean?

• 2:47:51Jesse Michels?

  And I I do, I wonder if, you know, if you believe, I believe in non-human intelligence. I think that that is totally real.

• 2:47:58Speaker 08

  I've seen enough with my own eyes, man.

• 2:47:59Jesse Michels?

  Totally.

• 2:48:00Speaker 08

  I've had orbs hover over my house.

• 2:48:01Jesse Michels?

  There you go. So that's a firsthand experience that you have to trust. And I am somewhat sympathetic to the three-body problem narrative in that, like, I think science is much weirder than meets the eye. And if it pattern matches to revelation, when these scientists have their discoveries. So I wonder if they have their own counter intel for some of this science.

• 2:48:25Speaker 08

  Possibly, right?

• 2:48:25Jesse Michels?

  And it disseminated in this slow drip. And, and it's not maybe the Philip Corso clean narrative where it's like just based on meta materials that

• 2:48:33Speaker 08

  No.

• 2:48:34Jesse Michels?

  reverse engineering. It's more like mental, like

• 2:48:36Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:48:37Jesse Michels?

  You get a download for a thing and then it gets like unlocked.

• 2:48:39Speaker 08

  And where did that come from exactly? Yeah, I, I, I find that interesting. It's not just us that might be doing the op.

• 2:48:45Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:45Speaker 08

  It might be something else doing the op.

• 2:48:47Jesse Michels?

  Well, it's, uh, it's funny. Eric Davis, you know, went in front of, uh, Congress or whatever. And like the whole thing was kind of this weird dog and pony show. I think Congress is like

• 2:48:55Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:48:55Jesse Michels?

  sort of dumb on a lot of this stuff. But the, the, my favorite line from, from his, and I have disagreements with him, Allah, on the brown stuff, but like, uh, uh, uh, my favorite statement of him was he goes, the NHI are controlling disclosure.

• 2:49:08Speaker 08

  Hmm.

• 2:49:08Jesse Michels?

  Which I loved. And that's fucking true, man. I, I don't think, like, that's why I, you know, the

• 2:49:13Speaker 08

  Well, do you remember Obama on the

• 2:49:15Jesse Michels?

  What did he say?

• 2:49:15Speaker 08

  He was like Jimmy Kimmel and it's like, you do it with a smile, but what are you really saying? Where he's like, the aliens won't let it happen. They, uh,

• 2:49:21Jesse Michels?

  Oh, that's funny.

• 2:49:23Speaker 08

  strict control over us.

• 2:49:24Jesse Michels?

  Well, wait, wait, well, I have a crazy story about, yeah, yeah, it's, it's off time now.

• 2:49:28Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:49:29Jesse Michels?

  Can I say one thing before you?

• 2:49:30Speaker 08

  Wait, wait.

• 2:49:30Jesse Michels?

  My crazy, my crazy story on that is I have a friend who I think heard from Eddie Vedder, the Pearl Jam guy.

• 2:49:37Speaker 08

  Uh huh.

• 2:49:37Jesse Michels?

  He was at a campfire with, uh, Obama.

• 2:49:40Speaker 08

  Oh, no shit.

• 2:49:40Jesse Michels?

  And like, everybody was kind of wasted or something. And Obama, and he was like, dude, I gotta know, like, what's actually going on? And Obama goes, read the three body problem.

• 2:49:49Speaker 08

  No shit.

• 2:49:50Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:49:50Speaker 08

  No shit.

• 2:49:51Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:49:51Speaker 08

  Wow.

• 2:49:52Jesse Michels?

  And Obama's, uh, now his production company is doing a movie on Betty and Barney Hill.

• 2:49:56Speaker 08

  Yes.

• 2:49:56Jesse Michels?

  And talk about predictive programming.

• 2:49:58Speaker 08

  And they did, they did the, um, leave the world behind.

• 2:50:00Jesse Michels?

  Leave the world behind, like the grid goes down, like, oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:03Speaker 08

  The step by step to destabilize a nation. Like, yeah.

• 2:50:05Jesse Michels?

  Yes.

• 2:50:06Speaker 08

  Go on, brother. We got, we got for us.

• 2:50:08Speaker 09

  Three body problem.

• 2:50:09Jesse Michels?

  Just strap in.

• 2:50:11Speaker 09

  As far as the impossibility of fast and light, I don't buy, or the dark, the dark forest thing, that's some bullshit from psychopath serpent race people. But the Sofons, remember the Sofons?

• 2:50:21Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Sofons.

• 2:50:23Speaker 09

  They were using atoms.

• 2:50:24Speaker 08

  Coming into the CERN and messing up our fundamental physics and like, yeah.

• 2:50:27Speaker 09

  They're called Sofons. Is that not the guy who told, uh, what's his name about Atlantis, Sofon?

• 2:50:32Speaker 08

  Oh, I don't know.

• 2:50:33Speaker 09

  Yeah, Sofon told.

• 2:50:34Speaker 08

  Oh, no, Solon.

• 2:50:35Speaker 09

  Solon.

• 2:50:35Jesse Michels?

  Oh, so, yeah, Solon.

• 2:50:36Speaker 09

  But the Sofons, the thing, Marc Andreessen, in an interview with Barry Weiss, he said he wanted to work on AI and they go, no, don't bother. We're only going to let two or three guys do it and do like, you know, a state capitalist.

• 2:50:46Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:47Speaker 09

  And he goes, what do you mean?

• 2:50:49Speaker 08

  We can classify the math.

• 2:50:50Speaker 09

  Yeah, we classified a whole area of physics.

• 2:50:52Speaker 08

  Back in the Cold War, no problem.

• 2:50:53Speaker 09

  Now, in your school. Yeah, in your school, the three states of matter I learned, water and steam and ice. But plasma, which is the fourth state of matter. We didn't really get into that ever.

• 2:51:03Speaker 08

  No, we don't. And that's where a lot of secrecy lies.

• 2:51:05Jesse Michels?

  And you did something on Kenneth's shoulder, exotic vacuum object?

• 2:51:08Speaker 08

  Yeah, I, well, I, I mean, like, I can't really claim that I did it. I've had some guests on, like, a pretty mysterious guy called Mr. X.

• 2:51:15Jesse Michels?

  That's right.

• 2:51:16Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude, that was, that was back in the day. That was when I was first getting mixed up with Richard Dolan and Mr. X, who just doesn't want to be named. He's not a government guy. He's just, he's a savant. He's really is a savant. And he did so much work on EVOs, exotic vacuum objects, and this like self-organizing plasma. And like, if you want to hear like deep dives into the technicalities of what plasma might be, like, check out my oldest interviews with Mr. X from like four years back, five years back. Like, that dude's a fountain of knowledge. But, um, yeah, like the Sapphire project and things like this that popped up for a bit. Like, you know, we're balling the stars, we're doing it, boop, gone.

• 2:51:51Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:51Speaker 08

  Halputoff got involved with that, um, project for a little bit.

• 2:51:54Jesse Michels?

  Right. He's got his hands in everything. He's always showing up.

• 2:51:58Speaker 09

  Your story about the, about, first of all, Peru, I didn't know you just went to Peru. That's fucking weird.

• 2:52:02Speaker 08

  Yeah, that, yeah.

• 2:52:03Speaker 09

  That's where we get the na, you know, did they still talk about Amaru at all?

• 2:52:07Jesse Michels?

  Amaru?

• 2:52:07Speaker 09

  Their god?

• 2:52:08Jesse Michels?

  Oh, no, not too much.

• 2:52:09Speaker 09

  The bad Americans named after?

• 2:52:11Jesse Michels?

  Oh, wow. Is that true?

• 2:52:13Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 2:52:13Speaker 08

  That.

• 2:52:14Jesse Michels?

  Wow.

• 2:52:14Speaker 09

  Yeah, Amerigo Vespucci changed his name to be more like that, not the other way around.

• 2:52:18Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:52:18Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 2:52:19Speaker 08

  Have you been to Peru?

• 2:52:21Speaker 09

  No, my good friend is from there.

• 2:52:22Speaker 08

  On my list, man, I need to go out there.

• 2:52:23Jesse Michels?

  You gotta go. You guys ever want to check out the mummies?

• 2:52:25Speaker 09

  Who used to tell me crazy stuff about it all the time. I didn't believe him back then, because, yeah, I wouldn't believe none of this stuff. I would be like dismissive of all the things that you're saying like 20 years ago.

• 2:52:35Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:35Speaker 09

  I go, there's nothing.

• 2:52:37Jesse Michels?

  Were you, you like a normie back in the day?

• 2:52:40Speaker 09

  You two degree. Really? I can't. I was a minister. I used to be a Jehovah's Witness. I was a minister.

• 2:52:46Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 2:52:46Speaker 09

  I stopped when I was twenty. Really?

• 2:52:47Speaker 08

  Damn, you were a minister?

• 2:52:49Speaker 09

  Yeah, everybody knocks on your door, you get baptized as a minister. But I mean.

• 2:52:53Speaker 08

  Shit, man.

• 2:52:53Speaker 09

  But I read the Bible quite a lot.

• 2:52:54Speaker 08

  What, what, what woke you up? What took you out?

• 2:52:56Speaker 09

  Yeah. Of that? Yeah. Oh, pussy. It was just pussy. It wasn't any.

• 2:53:02Speaker 09

  But, but you have to understand, if I believe something and I'm in a cult, okay? And I call, the only reason I call them a cult is because you actually have to do the religion. That's the only reason I call it a cult.

• 2:53:11Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 2:53:12Speaker 09

  So my definition is different than a lot of people's. I always want to be Catholic because you don't have to do it, you know? Well, that must be fun.

• 2:53:18Speaker 08

  Just say you're sorry when you die.

• 2:53:20Speaker 09

  But you couldn't have talked me out of it. You couldn't have talked me out of it. You could go me, show me all the evidence. You don't leave the cult till it don't work for you, the way they said it was gonna work for you. They tell you it's the answer to everything, all the answers. And then when it don't work, that's when you go out of it, okay? So that's when I left. Now, that thing you said about the underground, the ant people, and I didn't know they said they were sinister.

• 2:53:43Speaker 08

  They did that, that particular tribe did. They were just like, don't fuck with it.

• 2:53:46Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 2:53:46Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:53:47Speaker 09

  That's, okay, so, so this is what I'm talking about, metaphorical overlays, okay? So they're underground. Now, I think the little grays are some type of homunculus. If you've ever looked at Greta Thunberg, that's the evolutionary pattern of us.

• 2:54:00Speaker 08

  Patient zero, right there.

• 2:54:02Speaker 09

  Well, she's a completely astroturf construct. Why would I care about anything about her? Because they made that.

• 2:54:06Speaker 08

  Yeah, she was grown in like a World Economic Forum vat.

• 2:54:09Speaker 09

  They should just vegan to her.

• 2:54:11Speaker 08

  Poured into a mold.

• 2:54:12Speaker 09

  Basically, but vegan too early is the same difference, okay? So they went underground, so you know these AI freaks, like that, that creep with the hair lip that made bait Little Sophia?

• 2:54:24Speaker 08

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 2:54:25Speaker 09

  Little, little back. Oh, the, yeah, the.

• 2:54:28Speaker 08

  I forgot his name.

• 2:54:29Speaker 09

  He went to Africa to map kids' brains.

• 2:54:31Speaker 08

  Of course he did.

• 2:54:31Speaker 09

  What? Yeah, and he's a doll, a doll called Little Sophia, this kid, he has dolls, it was like, to make him think about STEM.

• 2:54:38Speaker 08

  Also, Sophia is a Gnostic reference.

• 2:54:40Speaker 09

  That's right, for wisdom.

• 2:54:42Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:54:42Speaker 09

  Wisdom, and it spies on your underage daughter as it excites her about STEM. It was crazy, okay, like full speed ahead, all these AI guys, oh yeah, it's gonna be terrible when AI. Do you watch these tech guys talk? It's insane.

• 2:54:55Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:54:56Speaker 09

  They go, yeah, first is gonna suck.

• 2:54:57Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:54:58Speaker 09

  They've all built underground bunkers, you might have heard.

• 2:55:00Speaker 08

  Yeah, they're ready for that shit.

• 2:55:01Speaker 09

  Yeah, like the ant people you might have heard from those.

• 2:55:03Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 2:55:05Speaker 09

  You see in the commonalities here?

• 2:55:06Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:55:07Speaker 09

  There's a bunch of rich, high-tech people that are gonna transhuman you. You're gonna be half an iPhone. Yay! And then it's gonna suck and they're gonna go underground when shit fucks again.

• 2:55:18Speaker 08

  And then they'll come back up and teach the rest of us how to live again. Yeah, like, well, shit dude.

• 2:55:22Speaker 09

  So, look for themes.

• 2:55:23Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 2:55:24Speaker 09

  The details, I don't believe or not believe, that, that don't do it, nothing. You can lie to me, I wanna know a new thing I ain't heard yet that don't make me bored. Would you guys ever get Neuralink? No. I would never get it.

• 2:55:35Speaker 08

  No, I interviewed the guy that got the first one.

• 2:55:38Speaker 09

  Oh, yeah, how was it?

• 2:55:39Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:55:40Speaker 09

  Guy in the sixties?

• 2:55:41Speaker 08

  Nolan Arbaugh, like something like that, cuz he had a couple that went loose.

• 2:55:45Speaker 09

  Whoa.

• 2:55:45Speaker 08

  Couple of, couple of.

• 2:55:46Speaker 09

  You're the first one, the real first one?

• 2:55:48Speaker 08

  He was the first one.

• 2:55:49Speaker 09

  No, the real first one's in nineteen seventy.

• 2:55:51Speaker 08

  Alright, okay, right, yeah.

• 2:55:52Speaker 09

  Leonard Kyle, worked for Polaroid. He went, he was very jealous of his girlfriend or something, and he went to a therapist to help him with that. And unfortunately, his psychologist was, worked for the CIA, and they put a chip in his skull without telling him. What? Because Carlos Delgado has that, you ever see the video of the bull and they can stop its aggression? They can make it not violent? Carlos Delgado of CIA, great. And, okay, this is wild. They put it in his head, it was a disaster. And the microwaves that are beaming the shit to the head were giving him horrible pain. He's a real smart guy.

• 2:56:25Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 2:56:26Speaker 09

  It turns his brain into Joe Biden soup, he ends up in a booby hatch. People come to visit him, this is all, I'm telling you the truth, he has a metal garbage can on his head. Because even though he's crazy, he's smart enough to know what blocks what they're doing.

• 2:56:40Speaker 08

  Right, right.

• 2:56:41Speaker 09

  So, wait, ready? Wait, wait for the punchline, dude. So then, they started giving him tinfoil instead.

• 2:56:48Speaker 08

  No shit.

• 2:56:49Speaker 09

  And that's where we get.

• 2:56:50Speaker 08

  That's where you get it.

• 2:56:50Speaker 09

  Tinfoil hat from the CIA mutilating an American citizen. And it's a big joke now. Isn't that funny? Is that true? I just told you it's true three times. That's crazy. Yeah, so I like to dress up like a clown and tell people these things, cuz they can't believe it!

• 2:57:08Speaker 09

  Did you like my Hannibal directed shirt that I wore? It's my old band, Google it.

• 2:57:12Speaker 08

  Nice.

• 2:57:14Speaker 09

  Yeah, so

• 2:57:15Speaker 08

  I can't believe you

• 2:57:16Speaker 09

  A thing we mock was someone mutilated by intel service. But they're gonna tell you the truth about UFOs. I'm sure they will.

• 2:57:26Jesse Michels?

  How about you? You were a minister.

• 2:57:28Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 2:57:29Speaker 08

  But could you imagine his fucking, uh, his, uh, what do you call it?

• 2:57:33Speaker 09

  Yo, you guys hit like three things that I'm like, oh my God. Uh, I was like fascinated and like hearing this shit like, uh, cause I know a lot of this shit too, but.

• 2:57:41Jesse Michels?

  Well, let's go to, we go to dinner, dinner?

• 2:57:42Speaker 09

  Yeah, we'll go to, it's all pieces and I just, like I said, I don't care who anybody likes.

• 2:57:47Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:57:47Speaker 09

  Or what, I, what do I give a shit? I just want data.

• 2:57:50Speaker 08

  Just give me data.

• 2:57:50Speaker 09

  And I'm like, yeah, yeah, data.

• 2:57:52Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 2:57:52Speaker 09

  However, I gotta get it. I'm gonna find it. I don't know why I'm obsessed with it, but, uh, I am.

• 2:57:57Speaker 08

  I hate you, man.

• 2:57:57Speaker 09

  Yeah. And so there's people are gonna, as soon as you, how, who here, raise your hand? If someone from somewhere like DOD or D, uh, was it DID? Someone from one of them three layer agencies can maybe met you somewhere and go, hey, I just want to tell you like, you're about 80% right. Your analysis.

• 2:58:13Jesse Michels?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:58:13Speaker 09

  Cause I've heard someone else.

• 2:58:15Jesse Michels?

  It's happened to me a bunch of times.

• 2:58:16Speaker 09

  I've had it.

• 2:58:16Jesse Michels?

  It's happened to you a bunch of times.

• 2:58:17Speaker 09

  Did you get a nice 80%? The guy said to me.

• 2:58:19Speaker 08

  Well, I got told that I was flagged as a Russian disinformation platform by the DOD apparently, but.

• 2:58:24Jesse Michels?

  No way.

• 2:58:24Speaker 08

  They're still letting me in the country, so.

• 2:58:26Jesse Michels?

  You're flagged as Russian disinfo?

• 2:58:28Speaker 08

  According to someone who had like contacts in the DOD who said, uh, oh yeah, no, we love Project Unic, but we can't actually watch it. Because it's been flagged as a Russian disinformation platform. I don't know how true that is, but that's what I was relating.

• 2:58:39Jesse Michels?

  I have, I have a bunch of like Twitter bots calling me Russian disinfo. I'm like, what are you talking about?

• 2:58:43Speaker 08

  The moment I opened my mouth.

• 2:58:44Speaker 09

  I'm funded by guitar myself.

• 2:58:45Speaker 08

  Yeah. I've seen you saying that, dude. Like, I've seen you saying that shit. Yeah, no, I mean, like, you know, I think at a certain point, when you talk about these kinds of subjects and you hit a certain perception and everyone's like, oh, he's controlled opposition. Oh, he's this, he's that, he's the other. I've heard it about you as well, bro. So like, I know the people.

• 2:58:59Jesse Michels?

  Oh, it's all over Reddit.

• 2:59:01Speaker 09

  What you learn is the way this system works.

• 2:59:03Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude.

• 2:59:04Speaker 09

  A lot of victim, uh, not you, I'm not calling anybody perpetrator, but perpetrators are victims as well of it. That's how the pyramid system works. A bunch of, the whole reason it way is designed is the compartmentalization levels. Or so that you don't know anything. So people go, oh, he knows that guy. I know all kinds of rich, famous people. That don't mean shit. Dude, Jack Kraus, who I think is very good info, thinks Rogan's a honey trap.

• 2:59:28Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:59:28Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, Rogan's called controlled opposition all the time.

• 2:59:31Speaker 09

  All the time. Don't listen to none of that. Know a tree by its fruit. So what are the fruits of what you produced? Does it go nowhere or did I learn from it? That's all I'm looking at.

• 2:59:39Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 2:59:39Jesse Michels?

  Well, that's why it's like Dark Journalist has called me that before.

• 2:59:43Speaker 08

  Wow, has he?

• 2:59:44Jesse Michels?

  I'm like, dude, like, you are into the towns and rounds stuff. And I went way deeper on the same shit.

• 2:59:49Speaker 08

  Right.

• 2:59:49Jesse Michels?

  You are, where's the daylight between us? Like, if you can give me substance on like, how I'm doing, it's just weird.

• 2:59:55Speaker 08

  It's thrown out there pretty, you know, fragrantly, just like.

• 2:59:58Jesse Michels?

  It kinda is, yeah.

• 2:59:59Speaker 09

  Everybody does it.

• 3:00:00Jesse Michels?

  And I get it, I get it. But it's sometimes it's like, sometimes it's true. And then sometimes it's some keyboard warrior Reddit mushy brain bullshit.

• 3:00:07Speaker 08

  Which is most of the time.

• 3:00:08Jesse Michels?

  Most of the time.

• 3:00:09Speaker 08

  Most of the time.

• 3:00:09Speaker 09

  Have no ego, you have to dissolve your ego to do this.

• 3:00:12Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 3:00:12Speaker 09

  That's what they teach you in them things.

• 3:00:13Speaker 08

  But that's another thing. There's just too many people trying to laugh as spooks and spies. And they want to be, you know, I'm, I'm close to the insiders. I've got information. It's like, you are the most easy to fuck with. You realize that, right? That you're so desperate to be involved with these people. They love it because they'll just feed you full of bullshit, kick you out into the world and say, go preach.

• 3:00:29Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:00:29Speaker 08

  You know what I mean? There's so many of them, so many of them. You've got to be really discerning in this subject. And that's something that I've done as well. I've made mistakes. I've had people on, like, there was a DARPA dude that I had on. Turned out to not be from DARPA because I got a fucking email from DARPA. I got emailed by the security manager of DARPA. He was like, I'm really sorry to email you, but we've just seen your video. And this guy has never worked for DARPA.

• 3:00:49Jesse Michels?

  Who is it?

• 3:00:49Speaker 08

  Uh, Michael Moran. Yeah, watch out for that motherfucker. He's a Scientologist, I think. He's just like out there trying to spread his like agenda. But I was, I was actually, I won't say he told me he was DARPA, but he was someone that I actually did trust. He was in the IC, who we've brought up his name on this show. And he was like, oh, no, you need to get him on.

• 3:01:05Jesse Michels?

  Whoa.

• 3:01:05Speaker 08

  And I just didn't do much diligence, got him on, and then boom, turns out he's full of shit.

• 3:01:08Jesse Michels?

  If you cover this stuff, you're gonna swing at some bad pictures.

• 3:01:12Speaker 08

  You're gonna swing at some bad, exactly.

• 3:01:12Jesse Michels?

  I've definitely gotten shit wrong.

• 3:01:14Speaker 08

  The healthiest thing to do as a normal person is just to go. I got got. I'm sorry.

• 3:01:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:19Speaker 08

  I'm not perfect. I got got. And you know, so many people refuse to like do that.

• 3:01:23Jesse Michels?

  No, you gotta be like, I got stuff wrong.

• 3:01:24Speaker 08

  I was being fucked with by the intel. It's like, no, just admit you made a mistake.

• 3:01:27Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, just keep going.

• 3:01:29Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 3:01:29Speaker 09

  You're gonna get fucked with by intel.

• 3:01:31Speaker 08

  Exactly, bro.

• 3:01:31Speaker 09

  I don't care if you're wrong.

• 3:01:32Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:33Speaker 09

  You could be wrong. Who made up this thing? You can't be wrong like that flit people dipshit?

• 3:01:36Speaker 08

  Exactly, dude.

• 3:01:37Speaker 09

  Oh, yeah, the Nazis are gonna come to you to Atlantis. Remember that shit?

• 3:01:41Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude, like, you know.

• 3:01:42Speaker 09

  That's an obvious op to smear you.

• 3:01:44Speaker 08

  You're allowed to make mistakes.

• 3:01:45Speaker 09

  Yeah, so I care if you lied to me. Joe Rogan, who's not a scientist, he didn't make a single mistake about Covid, not one.

• 3:01:51Speaker 08

  He was crushing it.

• 3:01:52Jesse Michels?

  He's pretty, he's pretty right.

• 3:01:53Speaker 09

  So, all the people that talk about science to me, I wanna know if you got your booster.

• 3:01:57Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:01:58Speaker 09

  And I wanna know if women have dicks or not, okay?

• 3:02:00Speaker 08

  Yeah, we need to establish a baseline of sensibility.

• 3:02:03Speaker 09

  Before you look down on a flat earth.

• 3:02:04Speaker 08

  Hundred percent, bro.

• 3:02:04Speaker 09

  Tell me women have dicks. Oh, they do? I guess anything's possible.

• 3:02:08Speaker 08

  They're all, they're all as fucking crazy as each other, but you know, I get what you're saying.

• 3:02:12Speaker 09

  It's just, we live in a doggy dog, it's the Hobbes Leviathan, the system set up, it's how you divide the population and rule that.

• 3:02:19Jesse Michels?

  But that's why I think the judo move is, the failure mode on what we're talking about is caring too much about

• 3:02:26Speaker 08

  Right.

• 3:02:27Jesse Michels?

  the disinfo or the intel or whatever, where it's like, the, the cool thing is to just be in your like locally good positive bubble.

• 3:02:34Speaker 08

  Yeah, man.

• 3:02:35Jesse Michels?

  And just search for truth.

• 3:02:36Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 3:02:36Jesse Michels?

  And just do your thing.

• 3:02:37Speaker 08

  Well, that's honestly, again, that's, that's why I've stepped a bit away from UFOs and that kinda subject, cuz it's just like full to the brim with intelligence spies and spooks. And it's like, I find it really refreshing to be looking at ancient history and not only is there like an actual data trail, but no one's trying to fuck with me in the same level. Like, no one's trying to influence my stuff as much as they were when I was doing UFOs. And I just feel like there's really good signatures in ancient history to say like, the models are wrong, like, there's, there's evidence that the models are wrong. Whereas with UFOs, even though I've, I've seen, I've literally got into a meditative state and made requests for something to turn up and had orange orbs float down and hover above my house. Which is why I created my YouTube channel in the first place.

• 3:03:14Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:14Speaker 08

  Picked up a camera phone, put it on a tree branch and was like, hey, guys, I'm a person, this happened to me. And then suddenly you get thrown into this world of like espionage and spooks and spies and it's exciting, but you come out on the end of that and you're like, I didn't actually learn anything from these guys. Like, you know what I mean?

• 3:03:28Jesse Michels?

  Like lost, like AJ Abrams.

• 3:03:29Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude, so like, I find it refreshing to step into another subject where it's like, there's an anomaly, there's something to look at here, but there's actually some pretty good evidence for it. And then it ties into the Anunnaki, the Sumerians, or the watchers. It's like, there's a connection.

• 3:03:43Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:03:43Speaker 08

  But this modern stuff just feels like it's been CIA sealed and packaged to send out to us to just kind of like regurgitate.

• 3:03:50Jesse Michels?

  There's a lot of that, but I push back slightly.

• 3:03:53Speaker 08

  Go ahead.

• 3:03:53Jesse Michels?

  Like, Robert Hastings and the nuclear stuff, like extremely grounded patterns of like these guys who if you speak to any of these Q cleared guys, they're not, they don't have any counter intel background.

• 3:04:04Speaker 08

  Yeah, no, not all of them, not throwing every single one.

• 3:04:06Jesse Michels?

  You went on now, you're saying?

• 3:04:07Speaker 08

  I'm not throwing every single one of them under the bus, not, not at all. But I just feel like the UFO community is specifically populated with a lot of intelligence influence. You have to be so careful who you trust, who you listen to.

• 3:04:18Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:04:19Speaker 08

  You know?

• 3:04:19Jesse Michels?

  No, and it's, what I don't like about it is it's like, uh, it's like there are like channels that are, that are seen like, I, I always, the thing that's made me uncomfortable about this year is I want to off myself as some like, like, I don't want anybody to see me, that's why I have, you know, Kurt on my show.

• 3:04:36Speaker 09

  I have no respectability.

• 3:04:38Jesse Michels?

  No, this is beautiful.

• 3:04:39Speaker 09

  That's key to everything.

• 3:04:40Jesse Michels?

  It'll, it'll, it'll give me a, it'll give me a healthy taste.

• 3:04:42Speaker 08

  Little, little refreshment.

• 3:04:43Jesse Michels?

  No, which is a prophylaxis.

• 3:04:44Speaker 09

  I destroyed your career today.

• 3:04:46Jesse Michels?

  Fantastic. No, no, I, I, I think it, I think, I, I think it's great because it's like, you don't want to be the guy.

• 3:04:53Speaker 08

  No, no, you don't.

• 3:04:54Jesse Michels?

  It's the worst position ever.

• 3:04:55Speaker 08

  No, you don't, because then you'll just get shot down the moment you make a mistake or error.

• 3:04:58Jesse Michels?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:04:59Speaker 08

  Yeah, no, exactly. And that's, and it's good to intersperse the seriousness with a bit of fucking levity.

• 3:05:04Speaker 09

  Take the heckle, because just from going on the stage, dude, if you're gonna get your feelings hurt, you don't, I'm a clown for a living, so.

• 3:05:10Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 3:05:10Speaker 09

  I don't get to have dignity, you know?

• 3:05:12Jesse Michels?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:12Speaker 09

  So what happens online, and by the way, it's part of the DARPA, we want all the DARPA bullshit.

• 3:05:16Speaker 08

  Right.

• 3:05:17Speaker 09

  To get you pulled into a nonsense spinning sansara endless wheel. That's very much like the cycle of reincarnation.

• 3:05:24Speaker 08

  Right, right, right.

• 3:05:24Speaker 09

  And you're in a prison and you gotta go back, all these spiritual things, you, hey, unified field theories, as above, so below, I think.

• 3:05:31Speaker 08

  Yeah, no, yeah, for sure.

• 3:05:31Speaker 09

  Because you can scale this shit up and down.

• 3:05:34Speaker 08

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:05:34Speaker 09

  And you can see what the picture is, but you gotta look at other shit. You, dude, I read the Bible a lot and me trying to reconcile all these different things, then you start to see. And once you know who gets paid for doing what, you could start putting it together.

• 3:05:47Speaker 08

  Yeah, dude.

• 3:05:47Speaker 09

  It's not beyond you to put it together, it's not.

• 3:05:50Speaker 08

  Hundred percent.

• 3:05:51Jesse Michels?

  On that beautiful note.

• 3:05:52Speaker 08

  Damn, how long we've been going for?

• 3:05:54Jesse Michels?

  We've been going for- My girl's mad. She didn't have orb experience and she's impatient with this.

• 3:05:58Speaker 08

  Okay, okay.

• 3:05:59Jesse Michels?

  Well, guys- Crazy, yeah.

• 3:06:00Speaker 08

  It's been, it's been dope.

• 3:06:01Jesse Michels?

  Jay Anderson, Project Unity, Kurt Metzger. Thanks, brother. Yeah. Dude, good to meet you. I got like twenty questions, dude.

• 3:06:07Speaker 08

  Yeah, you too, man. We'll link up later for a meal or something, yeah.

• 3:06:10Jesse Michels?

  Hell, yeah. We'll get dinner. Appreciate you guys. That was-

• 3:06:12Speaker 08

  Yeah, that was really good.

• 3:06:13Jesse Michels?

  Crazy.

• 3:06:35Speaker 14

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.