How to Raise Kids Who Aren't Entitled Ft. Dr. Becky

What if protecting your kids from struggle is actually making life harder for them later? Dr. Becky Kennedy joins me to talk about what it really takes to raise confident, resilient kids who can handle frustration, failure, boundaries, and hearing “no.” We get into when to help versus when to let your child struggle, the right way to set boundaries, how to avoid raising entitled kids, and why being a great parent has nothing to do with getting it right all the time. We also talk about one of the most important skills in any relationship—knowing how to repair when you mess up. Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Factor. Head to https://factormeals.com/jefferson50off and use code JEFFERSON50OFF to get 50% off and 1 free breakfast item per box for 1 year. Cozy Earth. Upgrade Your Every Day. Get 20% off at cozyearth.com/jefferson or use code JEFFERSON at check out. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube Follow me on Instagram Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra because it's not just a superior like beer. It's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you like to communicate boundaries to kids?

• 0:33Speaker 02

  People really misunderstand boundaries because boundary is something you tell your kid you will do, and it requires your kid to do nothing. But most parents say I've overcorrected. We think we say no, but we actually ask our kids permission. We do this weird, okay, at the end. Can I watch another show? Look, it's not good for you, okay? Can I watch another show? No, sweetie, TV is over and stop talking.

• 0:55Jefferson Fisher?

  How do we build capable, resilient humans?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  You cannot go through a life of a road being paved for you and expect when you're older to know how to navigate twists and turns. So the hardest moments when your kid is struggling are the moments where resilience get built. And I think supported struggle comes from two things. The first is I believe you, but we have dropped the second piece, which is the

• 1:20Jefferson Fisher?

  What is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to parenthood?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  That you have to get it right all the time. Repair is really the most important part of good parenting and you can't repair if you don't mess up.

• 1:31Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you know if you're spoiling your kid? What do you say to your kid when they say, I can't? What can a parent do to make sure that their kid is not entitled?

• 1:39Speaker 02

  The best way to not have an entitled kid, and I could be concrete about this, is to

• 1:45Jefferson Fisher?

  How do we build capable, resilient humans?

• 1:53Speaker 02

  Anti-fragile children, 100%.

• 1:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Capable, resilient.

• 1:57Speaker 02

  Yep, good.

• 1:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Not just kids, humans.

• 1:59Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Because I have two, you have three, and I am, it keeps me up.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:07Jefferson Fisher?

  All the time thinking of, am I ruining everything? And it doesn't take but a few therapy sessions of my own to go, okay, am I doing everything the right way? So I, the question I have for you is, is there a line between

• 2:26Jefferson Fisher?

  building capacity and sturdiness is your word and just letting them struggle? In other words, like, do you, where's the line between letting that balance fall?

• 2:40Speaker 02

  Yep. So do you want me to just answer that? Okay, my one liner for how we do that? No.

• 2:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, no, no, no, I don't need, I'm not worried about one liners, by the way.

• 2:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. So I actually, a story came to mind. Like, I actually think I tend to think about my biggest ideas in these very specific moments where then I kind of from there back out like a bigger principle. So I think about a moment when my oldest, who's now almost 15, was, I'm gonna say he's three, and he was very into puzzles when he was younger. He was doing a puzzle, and it was hard, right? And he then broke down at some point, melting down. And I don't know if you've had this, one of your kids, just do it, do it for me. I can't do it, it's too hard.

• 3:22Jefferson Fisher?

  That was disappointing, yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, all the time, good. That was just a check to make sure.

• 3:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, yeah. Are you really a parent? Yeah.

• 3:28Speaker 02

  Okay, um, okay. And so, look, there are some times we don't have the energy reserves. And I just want to start with that. Me too, as a parent, there are days, whatever the equivalent is, yeah, I'll do that puzzle for you. Fine, have an extra show. Like, that's fine once in a while. But if we think about what builds resilience and capability, you cannot go through a life of a road being paved for you and expect when you're older to know how to navigate twists and turns. Like, it just, the math doesn't even math, it doesn't make sense. And so there's fixing the issue with the puzzle. And then I think sometimes, and you kind of said this, we go to the other extreme where I say to my kid, this isn't a big deal. Stop being such a baby, do the puzzle or don't, I don't care.

• 4:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  I mean, I guess my kid is left with the struggle. I have never found that particularly helpful in my own life to inspire more hard work. Like, I find it shameful, I find myself alone. So I just want to share something I said to him because it kind of did form a foundation for me of how I think about resilience. I said, look, first of all, this is a hard puzzle. Like, you're 100%, this is hard, you're 100% right, this is hard. But I want to tell you why I'm not gonna do a piece for you.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  I think the best feeling in the world is when you think you can't do something and then you watch yourself make progress on it. And I'm not gonna take that feeling away from you. And you can take a break, you can take a breath. I know at some point that feeling is gonna come and it's gonna be amazing. So let's take a moment together. I'll watch, I'll step out. At some point, you're gonna finish this. And what I think is kind of a bigger principle there is kind of this idea of what I would call supported struggle, not exit from struggle, not shame, and not, support is not solutions. They're two very different things. And I think supported struggle comes from two things. And I think we've overcorrected to just the first. The first is I believe you.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  I believe you, this is hard. I believe you, this puzzle is hard. I believe you, going to soccer practice is hard. I believe you, it's hard to do the bonus problem on your math homework when you don't know if you're gonna get it right. I believe you. But we have dropped the second piece, which is the, I believe in you. That if you can't see a more capable version of your kid than they can access in themselves, you've collapsed into their sense of their own fragility with them. And then that has kind of profound consequences for the rest of their life.

• 5:59Jefferson Fisher?

  I have so many

• 6:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 6:02Jefferson Fisher?

  of my own flashbacks recently of how quickly my kids sometimes can just give up

• 6:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:10Jefferson Fisher?

  on something. Or you hear, I know, yours is a puzzle. My daughter, who's six, she's really into creating these, like, rubber band bracelets. They're everywhere. She's made

• 6:24Speaker 02

  The little ones?

• 6:24Jefferson Fisher?

  The little ones. And she's made gobs of them at our house for everybody. Anybody she can think of, she's making this bracelet. But she was trying to do this really intricate design. And of course, I hear her upstairs. Oh, this is her, she's going, oh, come on. Like, that's her upstairs. Like, you can hear she going, ah. And of course, I go up there and I wanted to in that moment, just go, okay, this is hard. Let me, let me help you with this.

• 6:55Jefferson Fisher?

  And long story short, I didn't. The question is, is there ever an okay time when your kid's going through a hard moment to rescue them?

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Yes, because I think there's, if you think about struggle, let's just say, or frustration as a bell curve. Resilience, this isn't truly scientific, but my guess is resilience is built in the two to eight zone. When you're at a 10 out of 10, no, sorry, like a level two to a level 10. When you're feeling, let's say, frustration or overwhelm at any age at a level 10 and you're frozen in fear and you're having a panic attack, you're in survival mode. Often in that situation, and this can happen, I was actually just talking to, you know, a couple about this.

• 7:47Speaker 02

  Their kid, right now, is young and likes to play soccer, but going to soccer practice and joining the team finds it intimidating. And they're like, we're not gonna give into this. We're not one of those parents who's like, okay, fine, we'll just get you private lessons forever. No, it's not us. And by the way, two called soccer players, so there's history, right? Okay, so they're like, we're going, right? And they had a little difference of opinion. And the mom was saying, we're gonna go. And the truth is, what am I gonna do? Make my kid play? We're gonna go, we're gonna sit, I feel like over time. And then I was like, that, no. My kid is going to practice and it's like, if you don't go today, no dessert tonight, no screens tonight, no this. By the way, this has been tried and actually the kid just freezes more because now that

• 8:28Speaker 02

  kid feels like a huge failure at soccer and a huge failure in their home. Is that rescuing to not make them go to soccer? But I think the difference is rescuing in that situation is probably, if you have the means, we'll just give you private soccer lessons forever so you never have to deal with the kind of anxiety of what if I'm not the best one?

• 8:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  What, right? I don't think rescuing is saying, as an example, we're gonna go to soccer. Look, I don't know if you're gonna join, but we're gonna go and we're gonna sit there because when we sign up for something in this family, we work toward doing it. And also, I just kind of think you're the type of kid who takes a little bit longer to warm up and that's fine. And I feel like maybe at one of the practices, you might feel ready. That was my daughter for years, for years, a slow to warm up kid. And I think what we take away in the rescuing is we remove kids from the situations that would build resilience. It's just that some kids have a longer timeline and frankly, we find it inconvenient.

• 9:31Speaker 02

  I'm like, is that really how I'm gonna spend every birthday party with my kid sitting on my lap into the last five minutes and then they cry that the birthday party was too short? I spent two years like that.

• 9:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  But I know my kid wouldn't have gotten to the place of being able to join and function if I just said, you know what? She's not a kid who can go to birthday parties.

• 9:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  You know, you can't skip that step.

• 9:54Jefferson Fisher?

  I like what you said a minute ago, and that was, I'm not gonna take the progress away from you.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:59Jefferson Fisher?

  So I think that was really pivotal because I think every time there's been that little, that puzzle that was really, probably a little bit too hard. Or maybe the Legos, it was a little bit outside of the age range and I know they can do it.

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:12Jefferson Fisher?

  I know, I know he can, I know she can. And if I just

• 10:18Jefferson Fisher?

  What the miracle that I have found that's worked in my life is I want you to put it down and pick it up tomorrow and watch you'll do it even better. And there's something about me telling them that and it comes from musical instruments I teach them to play or little bitty things that if I say, okay, then let's put it down tomorrow, I bet you'll do it even better.

• 10:37Speaker 02

  Exactly. Sometimes you need a break. That is legitimate, right? So, and also I think what you're doing so beautifully, Jefferson, is you're doing that I believe in you part. You're sharing a version of them, the kid who can do it better tomorrow.

• 10:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 10:51Speaker 02

  That honestly, they cannot access in themselves. This is the same in adulthood. If you're in a job and oh my goodness, I'm being asked to do this presentation and I've never done that in front of a group and your boss says, look, you're right. By the way, when you go, you're going to be nervous. Let's just get that out of the way. I gave this to you because I actually know you're going to be able to crush it. That feels so helpful versus the boss who says, oh, you're nervous. You know what?

• 11:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  I'll give it to that other person. You're like, oh, now I'm going to be more nervous the next time.

• 11:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, that's, they're absolutely going to be more nervous the next time. Before we keep going, a quick word from Factor. One thing that I have truly loved over the past six months or so is eating these Factor meals. These meals are microwaveable. They are chef inspired. They are dietitian designed, easy meals that are anywhere from 30 to 40 grams of protein, which is awesome for me. And I always know they have a awesome, like really good protein and vegetable that comes with it. They're easy. I pop them in. I've been eating them for lunch. I kid you not, probably for the past five weeks, every day. And I look forward to every time I get a new shipment of them. They're fast, they're easy, and they really genuinely taste good, better than any other, you know, microwaveable meal I've

• 12:05Jefferson Fisher?

  certainly ever had. They are fantastic and I cannot get enough of them. And so I am, they get a big thumbs up from Jefferson. They have at least 100 different nutrient dense menu items that you can choose from. They come right to your door, easy to put in your fridge and just pop in and two minutes, they're ready. Go to factormeals.com/jefferson50off. That's Jefferson five zero off and use code Jefferson 50 off to get 50% off and one free breakfast item per box for one year until supplies last until 10/31/2026. That's code Jefferson 50 off at factormeals.com/jefferson50off at factormeals.com. I am curious of your thoughts on, I'm going to set the stage. Okay.

• 12:50Jefferson Fisher?

  In the South, where I was raised, the select baseball teams are insaneo. They are nuts. Okay. It's, it's fall ball and seasons. It's all year round and most of these boys don't want to be doing it. They want to be playing with friends and they have parents that are, no, you will. And I know some that are, if you don't perform or you don't hit, there's no, you know, call it iPad. There's no, there's always like a, we'll take you, there's ice cream. There's always some kind of.

• 13:27Speaker 02

  No clothes, no dinner.

• 13:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, something like that. No bath. There's always a carrot on, on the stick. And I am curious, I'm sure I could package this differently, but I, I want to know to the kids who don't want to go to, to the ball practice, who don't want to show up and practice the sport that they're in. How do these parents handle that?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  You know, I have a nuanced opinion of this. I think if I talked to you a year ago, I would have felt really confident in my opinion. And then I actually did this series of interviews on my pod with athletes, right? Like Tony Finau, Russell Wilson. And I kind of expected, to be honest, I don't know why. I'm all to say, yeah, I was that kid at the gym. I was this. Across the board, they had a parent, okay, who was like, let's go, let's go, you know?

• 14:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Get up, let's go.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Get up. Because one of my kids sometimes, I'm like, hello, go practice. Like you could be better and that should come from you. And it was just interesting, not like my, any of my kids have the raw talent of any of those humans. Let's just be perfectly clear. But I, I was thinking they had raw talent and I guess they also didn't have that. And I remember one of them saying, it was probably not until age 13, 14, after honestly that habit of waking up in the morning. Then I started doing it on my own. I was like, oh, 13, 14. Okay. Now, if I zoom out from that, I, I think we're, I think we're really asking, like, what are we doing today? And is that in line with a goal that's going to matter? Or is this going to even be in line with helping that goal happen in the future?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  If anything over time is more of our goal for our kid than our kid's goal for themselves. The gig usually gets up at some point because at some point a kid gets old enough and they realize, I'm not scared of you. You can't put me in timeouts. Like I can kind of get my own food from the pantry. You've helped me get so strong at the sport. Like I actually could arm wrestle you and win. Like what are you going to do?

• 15:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 15:28Speaker 02

  The only kids that doesn't happen for are extreme people pleasers who seem perfectly in line until they're about 20 something. And then usually are the ones who do like have a kind of early midlife crisis, right? Of massive anxiety. So I think where I'm landing is there's a balance. Kids often don't inherently want to do hard things that are going to be helpful in the long term. They want to do fun things that are easy today. By the way, probably me and you do too. Like most of the time, yeah. It's not a kid thing. It's a human thing, right? And so I just think there's a dance. Like I, I

• 16:10Speaker 02

  don't love lording. I definitely don't like rewards or consequences for something that to some degree, your home run is a little out of your control. Like I remember when my, one of my kids played baseball. One of the things I tried to say at the end was I, I loved the way honestly, when one of your friends dropped a pop fly, I know that's frustrating because it's true. You probably would have caught it. I watched you turn away and not say anything. I watched you say, nice try. That was amazing. That feels more in control than whether my kid, you know, hits a home run. But I think you're talking about, there's a lot of pressure. Who is this for? Is this our unlived dreams playing out and our child

• 16:52Speaker 02

  is the pawn? Is this at all coming from a child? And what I know is if it's a hundred percent parent and zero percent child or anything near that ratio, that usually ends up blowing up in a big way when the stakes are higher.

• 17:05Jefferson Fisher?

  And definitely comes out later.

• 17:06Speaker 02

  That's what I'm saying. Right. Exactly. And the stakes being higher usually aren't about baseball. It's, yeah, why, I don't want to, I'm at college and it's, you know, whatever Christmas break, I don't want to go home to my parents' house. I'm going to go home with my friend because I just feel a kind of like a performance monkey in that house and I don't have to do that.

• 17:23Jefferson Fisher?

  And next thing you know, they're 40 in a therapist's chair talking about when it all started at that practice. Now, I do know what it's like when my son, who's, he's great, naturally great at soccer.

• 17:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:34Jefferson Fisher?

  He just didn't want to practice. I get that.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:36Jefferson Fisher?

  I don't blame you. Practice, not all that fun. You want the immediate win.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:42Jefferson Fisher?

  And it got to where it was, okay, I can set all this up. We're not going to be some pro athlete at soccer. So I just want this to be fun. So if that means we get outside and we're just moving our bodies.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 17:55Jefferson Fisher?

  That's great. But I had some friends that, like, he wanted to motivate his son to go after the ball in basketball. His son was really timid. He wants him to go touch the ball. And, you know, if he shot it, he was going to get a new video game. And that really bothered me.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Becky, like I, I was like, I don't, I don't, that feels misaligned to me.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  I, yeah, look, and I, I don't love that either because I think again, confuses, like we're getting in each other's lanes. I'm kind of as a parent, really getting in my kid's lane. Again, so for most kids, youth sports are about building character traits. Most, you, most kids are not going to be Russell Wilson and Tony Finau, no matter what. There's just very few people. So it's about learning sportsmanship. It's about learning how to work hard. It's about bouncing back from failure. It's about sticking with the basketball game when you're down by 12 points. It's about going to the game when you know you're going to get crushed. Like there, you know, when you know you're going to get crushed by a team by 40 points, there are kids who are sick every time.

• 18:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 18:56Speaker 02

  Not my kids. Again, they're going with that cough because you've got to learn, you've got to show up even when you know something's going to be hard, you know? And so.

• 19:04Jefferson Fisher?

  I've never heard it explained that way. And I think that's, I think that's wonderful that that, that, those kinds of team sports, they're about building character traits.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 19:12Jefferson Fisher?

  And that's it.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  And by the way, I hear one of my friends in my ear being like, Becky, you talk a good game. When you watch your kid not be aggressive at a sport, it is the most triggering thing. So I'm just saying, it's so hard. And sometimes it's just framing it in a different way and giving yourself something to look for. That's a little different. It stops us from, you know, moving too far in that direction.

• 19:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Haven't, yeah. Well, they have, you know, baseball dads, they have soccer moms, they have all these, the, the little leagues of the world that, I think what you said is exactly right of who are we doing this for? Is it your unlived dreams? Are you, are you driving your kid's car? Or are you allowing them to do it?

• 19:57Speaker 02

  And I have two more things to say about youth sports because it's actually one of my favorite things. So number one, what you're saying about your son was soccer, where I think the mismatch comes and then both the resentment and aggression is, okay, my kid doesn't really want to practice on their own. But I am paying for two private lessons for them. But they practice zero percent besides those lessons. I am putting in as a parent, so much more effort to my kid's sports than they are. And then I end up yelling, you don't care. I, I think it's okay to set up a system. And I'm just using private lessons as an example. It could not be private lessons. It could just be going to soccer practice because that still takes up my time. I'm allowed to say to my kid at any point, I would encourage a parent to do this because I think we've overcorrected as a generation to our

• 20:39Speaker 02

  kids becoming like the pilot of the family plane. Hey, you want to do soccer? That's amazing. I, I want to let you know kind of how this can work in our family because we love watching you play soccer, but also it takes our time, it takes our money. And so you ask for that private lesson. Here's how we can make that work. Every week, if you have a private lesson, there have to be two times that you practice on your own. That's not a threat. That's not a consequence. That's a way of saying our effort equals your effort. If it gets to the point where that's too hard to do, sweetie, that's fine. We'll still keep up your soccer team. I'm going to pull back on the lessons. And I'm not saying this with aggression. I'm saying it so the family is in balance. And I think sometimes we, we

• 21:22Speaker 02

  are just in the habit of doing and doing and doing for our kid. And we can just be honest about the system that that feels better for everyone.

• 21:32Jefferson Fisher?

  I I I agree with that mentality wholeheartedly.

• 21:37Jefferson Fisher?

  I want us to be able right now to kind of put on our nerd glasses and workshop our own three points.

• 21:44Speaker 02

  Great.

• 21:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, on how do we teach our kids how to handle hardship? When things are hard. What I hear you said a minute ago is one, there's the element of, I believe what you're going through is what you're going through. Like, I believe that it's hard. I believe that it's difficult. I also heard you say, I believe in you.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 22:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Which is almost more important. I think that they know that you you see a different progress version that they don't see.

• 22:18Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 22:19Jefferson Fisher?

  What what's what's a third one that we can add to this one?

• 22:25Speaker 02

  That I think the third thing is that the hard moments when they lose a game or when they haven't yet been able to finish the puzzle or finish the math problem, just in your head to remind yourself, this is the moment resilience is building. They're gonna whine, right? So the hardest moments when your kid is struggling are the moments where resilience get built.

• 22:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  So don't take them away.

• 22:51Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it. I'm gonna give you some of my own

• 22:58Jefferson Fisher?

  parent struggles.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 22:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay. Here we go, cuz you're with me, so

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 23:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Let's might as well have a session.

• 23:05Jefferson Fisher?

  So we just got back from Australia. And anytime my kids come, my son is eight, my daughter is six, and she's been like this since she was four. We thought that was gonna grow, gonna be like a two week thing. It is not. It has to do with her ability to walk

• 23:21Jefferson Fisher?

  and complain. Okay, meaning the farther she walks, you would think the more complaints. It's the same no matter what, whether it's a two minute walk or an eight minute walk. If we're walking to ice cream or a playground, there's no complaints. But if we're walking to, let's say, something else, we have to go to a museum, we have to go to whatever. She will complain the entire time. She will come up with, my leg hurts, which we know her leg doesn't hurt cuz it only hurts when she's walking and it's not going towards ice cream. Or she'll say like she has a growing pain in the other leg or her tummy hurts or she doesn't feel good.

• 24:03Jefferson Fisher?

  And it makes walking anywhere miserable. Because if she's unhappy, she is skilled at making the rest of the family unhappy. And so a lot of it is, I have to be like, she'll be like, is it five minutes? How many more minutes now? And it's been 30 seconds. And I have to tell you, it drives me up.

• 24:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:29Jefferson Fisher?

  A wall and I'm good for a little bit. Honestly, I'm good for a little bit. But then towards like the fifth time asking, I start to kind of come unhinged. All right. It's, then we have to have a talk and I may not show up the way I want to. Or I did the bad thing and that was I was so tired of it, I picked it up and carried her, which is probably what she wanted in the first place.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  Look, like, I don't think the times we like pick up and carry our children. If that's like the worst parenting offense, it's not, it's not so bad. But I hear you're saying, am I reinforcing?

• 25:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 25:02Speaker 02

  Quote, bad behavior.

• 25:03Jefferson Fisher?

  That I pick her up every time she asks, always. It's, it was, that was her version of getting out of walking. And there are plenty of examples that it could be, whether it's a parent in a grocery store and their kid is throwing a fit or they are at a department store or whatever it is. And you know, it's just a little bit of hardship. Like, it's just a very short amount of time. You can make 10 minutes.

• 25:26Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 25:27Jefferson Fisher?

  And they act as though the world is absolutely crumbling. And I've done what you have said to do is like, I know it's hard. I know it's a bummer. Yeah, this is a, I know this is longer than we wanna walk to. It doesn't.

• 25:41Speaker 02

  Okay, so let's.

• 25:42Jefferson Fisher?

  It doesn't stop.

• 25:43Speaker 02

  So, okay, so a couple of things, clarifying questions. Long car rides that are boring, same thing or?

• 25:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Same thing.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Okay. And something that doesn't involve a distance, but I don't know, we're going, we're having these people over who she finds boring, a lot of complainants too.

• 25:59Jefferson Fisher?

  No.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  Like, in general, when she has to do something that she inherently doesn't love to do, is it, is it a struggle for her?

• 26:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Okay. So that's, that's kind of what we're talking about then.

• 26:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Verbally.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  Verbally. And then, and then when she gets to the place you're going, she like snaps out of it.

• 26:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, she's, she's gone. Or even if we're walking to a playground, if it's 15 minutes away, you'll hear it the whole 15 minutes. And then as soon as the playground's in sight, you know, the bum leg she says she had disappears.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Totally. Okay, so a couple of things. I think what she's really saying is, when I am being asked to do something that I don't inherently want to do, you're gonna hear about it. That's kind of right.

• 26:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  I'm not kind of a put on a smile.

• 26:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  Do it anyway kind of girl.

• 26:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 26:43Speaker 02

  At least not now, which just long term. And again, there's a range. I, I always think like how few parents of 25 year olds tell me, I'm so proud of my compliant child. That kid just smiles no matter what's going on. Like, have you ever heard that? Never? Right, and you actually hear parents say, I'm actually really proud of my kid. Like, when something happens that they don't like, they've figured out, maybe respectfully, hopefully, how to speak up about it, right? And so she's on the pathway to be that kind of 25 year old who you're gonna be.

• 27:11Jefferson Fisher?

  So fiery.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  Exactly, she's so fiery. And our kids who are fiery and who frankly, aren't really so people pleasing, they tend to do pretty well. Later on, they're just exhausting when they're young. And I don't know if that's very different from your other kid who's a little.

• 27:27Jefferson Fisher?

  It's so different.

• 27:28Speaker 02

  Right.

• 27:28Jefferson Fisher?

  So he's, what we say is my son, he cares about everybody's feelings.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Extremely empathetic. He cares about everybody's feelings.

• 27:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 27:36Jefferson Fisher?

  My daughter cares about nobody's feelings.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  Well, she cares about her feelings.

• 27:39Jefferson Fisher?

  She cares about her feelings.

• 27:40Speaker 02

  That's right. That's right. And that's very typical first kid, second kid. And one of the things that does happen, and this is where, this is a really good answer to the question because all these dynamics are really important to understand. And this can happen in any family, but, but it is important to know that I've seen it, especially when there's two child, kind of, when there's two children in a family, it's especially kind of likely to get kids on a binary because binaries exist in two. So you have a kid who's the flexible one, a kid who's the selfish one, a kid who cares about everyone else, a kid who kind of only cares about themselves, a kid who's generous with everyone, a kid who wants their own needs met first. And unintentionally, it's really easy to reinforce these things when there's two, especially cuz there's a binary. Why can't be more like your brother? Like, come on, do you see him? Do you see him complaining?

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Like, and then what my kid learns is kind of, oh, I am the one in the family. Like, this is my role. You're right, my brother's the one who kind of cares what everyone else and is easy, and I'm the difficult fiery one, when actually both kids benefit from a little bit of the other. And this is gonna maybe be counterintuitive and it's not my only suggestion. But almost always, like if you, you know, if you're in my office, I'd probably say something like this. Like, I wanna talk about, I wanna talk about your son for a moment. Like, kind of worries me, he never complains on his walks. And you'd be like, I don't think you heard me right. Like, and I'd be like, no, I heard you right. Why does he never complain? Do you want him to be someone who just kind of walks along the road of anyone with a smile, right?

• 29:07Speaker 02

  And the reason it's a counterintuitive intervention that helps is often, especially with two kids. One kid has to give up a little bit of always going with the flow and making life easy for the family, for there to be enough of that trait for the other kid to take on. And so one of the things I would do, and I'll just share a bunch of ideas, is I'd say, you guys, you know what's funny? When we go on walks, you know, you're always so calm and smiley, don't worry. And you, I gotta be here, I hate walking. Do you guys think on a walk

• 29:38Speaker 02

  to Aunt Suzie's house?

• 29:41Speaker 02

  Like, we could

• 29:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Swap.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Swap. Do you think just for 30 seconds, whatever you're sensing, can you be like, I really wanna go, so, can you, can you like collapse onto the ground? And could you be like, you're so annoying. It's just a short walk. And, and there's such playfulness in it. And it's actually really true that I happen to think any treat that lives in a system, there's only 100% of it. And if one sibling is hogging 100% of the generosity and flexibility, there really is nothing for the other one. So that's one thing that, by the way, I would say the same thing in another sibling. I'd say, look, I know you always give your sister the red cup cuz she has a hard time. I'm actually gonna help you keep the red cup

• 30:26Speaker 02

  because you actually need help keeping things when other people are upset. It's not always good to give your stuff away. I'm gonna help you keep it and, right? And so it's just, it's a kind of intervening with like the good kid first.

• 30:39Jefferson Fisher?

  How interesting.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  And it, it tends to really shift a system cuz that's all a family is, is a system where we end up taking on more and more extreme roles.

• 30:48Jefferson Fisher?

  I think you're blowing my mind. I'm thinking of, I'm thinking of all these things I could do with mine, with my son

• 30:55Jefferson Fisher?

  and my daughter reversing their roles. Because I like the 100% thing.

• 31:00Speaker 02

  Yes. Where I remember, I remember complaining to my therapist years ago, and I'm curious if you and your wife get into this. It's like, seriously, my husband, it's crazy. It's crazy. We get home from a long weekend, there's so much to unpack. He's sitting on the couch after, who sits on the couch? There's, and my therapist, I'll never forget, goes, I think you need his help. And I was like, yeah, I need his help. I was so fired. She goes, I think you need his help sitting on the couch. I was like, are you, am I paying you for this advice?

• 31:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  I was like, what do you mean? He was, well, look, Becky, he owns all of the, I just had a long drive, I wanna relax. And you own all of the, we have to get this done right now. Which, by the way, no offense, like you actually don't, just to, just to be honest.

• 31:42Jefferson Fisher?

  The unpacking, all the other stuff.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  I'm gonna unpack, I'm gonna over function, you know? And if you ask for his help sitting down. My guess is you'd be shocked at one day when he goes, you know, I'm going to get up and just start unpacking. At least it paves the way for that because if you approach him as why are you not like this? He's not going to say this because mostly unconscious he was well, that's who, that's who you are. That's you. And so it was it and it really did change things. It really, I hate to admit it and I've seen it change things with my kids when I approach things that way. Because it, it just puts more in the system to kind of redistribute.

• 32:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Before we continue, I want to take a quick moment to tell you about Cozy Earth. One thing that we have really enjoyed in my family are our nineties themed movie nights. So typically, once a week, maybe once every other week, we do a nineties themed movie where Sierra and I kind of get to relive a nineties nostalgic movie. We're talking like the Sandlot or something and we're introducing it to our kids and we love it. One thing that we have been using every time we do one of these, and it's kind of become a thing of contention is the Cozy Earth blanket. In fact, it's called the cuddle blanket. It's weighted. It feels like a bear rug. I'm telling you, every time we get under it and we, our whole family can fit under it.

• 33:03Jefferson Fisher?

  One of us is falling asleep. Usually it's, yes, it's, it's this guy. I'm typically falling asleep. But I'm telling you, if you love family movie nights, or you just like a nice cozy cuddle time by yourself with some tea, you need to go try out this cuddle blanket. I mean it. I love it. I cannot recommend it enough. Cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code jefferson for 20% off. That's cozyearth.com/jefferson. Use the code jefferson for 20% off. And now let's keep going. I'm smiling so much because I'm seeing all the things in my whole family where who has a hundred percent of a thing?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 33:38Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, and if somebody has a hundred percent of the thing, then it leaves no space for anybody else.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. And this is not my way. In so many marriages, I think people say I over function. It doesn't let your partner off the hook. It's not, of course they have to do more, but it's a really, usually we can't solve a problem. I know you know this too. It's because our mindset, if our, if our mindset is keeping us stuck, you don't need another strategy. You need to switch your mindset to kind of see something in a new way. And the idea of, oh, am I hogging something is just so different. And it also adds some levity and right, you just kind of laugh, which also helps you get a little unstuck.

• 34:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, I've just never thought of the, you know, well, maybe he needs your help sitting down.

• 34:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Or maybe, you know, for my son, you know, he needs, you need to be a little bit more complaining.

• 34:28Speaker 02

  That's right. Or you could go into her room one day and be like, this is going to sound so weird. And I know we talk about you complaining on drives.

• 34:36Speaker 02

  Is it ever kind of annoying that your brother doesn't complain? Like I ever thinking he's so annoying?

• 34:42Jefferson Fisher?

  So calm.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  He's so perfect all the time. I would understand that. And then you just leave it. You're not throwing your son under the bus, right? It also just kind of shifts because I think what happens with quote, bad behavior in general is kids always respond to the version of themselves we reflect back. We're a mirror. That's like our main kind of role as a parent. We reflect to our kids, not just how they're behaving, but who they're becoming. And so when you say to a kid who never shares, you never share. Why are you so selfish? If you think about that from the perspective of being a mirror? Well, I can't reinforce the identity of being a bad selfish kid and expect a lot of generous behavior.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  And this example, I will never forget the moment I was so frustrated with my daughter and I wanted to say, why don't you share with your brother? Your brother gives you all of his snacks all the time. That's right. But I, I've had a good moment and I said, I don't know what's going to happen. I see he wants some of your snacks. All I can tell you is you have as much generosity as anyone else in this family. I know you do. And I remember this exact moment because he wanted the certain like Cheez-It things from the Chex Mix. And she gave him pretzels. Okay. Not perfect, but like a huge, a huge growth step.

• 36:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 36:04Speaker 02

  And I think it's, it actually is not different from what you said so naturally. I, what you see your kid is capable of doing tomorrow.

• 36:11Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 36:12Speaker 02

  If I can't see the generosity inside my kid,

• 36:16Speaker 02

  how is my kid going to see it in themselves?

• 36:18Jefferson Fisher?

  How are they supposed to see it in themselves?

• 36:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:21Jefferson Fisher?

  I want to switch gears to boundaries. I have a certain way that I like to communicate because you and I both talk in communication, that I like to communicate boundaries. I need to know from the source, Dr. Becky, on how do you like to communicate boundaries to kids?

• 36:44Speaker 02

  Often.

• 36:47Speaker 02

  Clearly.

• 36:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Frequently. Yeah.

• 36:49Speaker 02

  Frequently, sturdily.

• 36:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 36:50Speaker 02

  Um, well, I think, and I think you and I have a lot of overlap here. I think people really misunderstand boundaries because over and over, all of parents just say, my kid doesn't listen to me. My kid doesn't respect my boundaries. And I'll say, oh, sounds like that sounds exhausting. Tell me more. And I always get something like this. Okay. Well, my kid's watching TV. And they know one episode, one episode and turn off, turn off the TV, turn it off. Okay, I'm gonna, and then I always laugh because we always just start counting as parents. Like, I don't know if you see that adult or CEOs do that. I've just never seen it and I'm going to count. I'm going to count to five and I count to five.

• 37:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Five. I got three.

• 37:28Speaker 02

  Whatever it is, three, whatever it is, I count. My kid still probably again, unless they're a people pleaser, they're not going to do it. And then I make a threat that I have no intention of keeping. If you don't turn off the TV, no dessert tonight. And then I go over and I say, you know what? That's it. You're punished. And then you come to my house and my kid doesn't listen. And I would say, all due respect, that is not a boundary. Right? And so I think we just start with what a boundary is before we know how to deliver it. And to me, a boundary is something you tell your kid you will do and it requires your kid to do nothing.

• 37:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Requires your kid to do nothing.

• 37:58Speaker 02

  Requires your kid to do nothing.

• 38:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  So in that situation, a boundary, first of all, in that situation, you should never let your kid watch TV while holding the remote. It's just a setup for failure.

• 38:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  So, but let's say my kid is holding the remote.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  Turn off the TV. It doesn't happen. Hey, it looks like it's hard for you to turn off the TV. I'm going to walk over to you and if by the time I get there, you're not able to turn it off, I will grab the remote from your hand and turn it off myself. And I would do that because people are like, but then would you do that? I feel like what do people think we work out for when we have young kids? I work out for those exact moments. Like my biceps are doing something strong. Yes.

• 38:39Jefferson Fisher?

  I know. I felt them early on.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. There we go. It's from the remote battles back in the day. And then I think people think my children, my house say some version of here you go. You're such a sturdy leader. I know you're doing this for me. No, your kid has one response to a boundary. If they're not used to it, they freak out. And then you can say something short and sweet. I think we've gotten this wrong. And I talk about validating feelings, but we over talk feelings. Like I would just say, oh, I know that stinks. And then I turn off the TV and I stop talking. Not have you seen the research? It's not good for your brain.

• 39:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Were you over?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  So I'm going to say what I'm going to do. I'm going to expect my kid to protest. I know I'm going to tolerate that protest. And then the way I'm going to hold the boundary actually just has to do with my behavior in that moment. What I do or don't do, not anymore with my language. How does that vibe with your sense of boundaries?

• 39:36Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it. Mine, you know, I, what I do is like you, people like, like these concise little things. What you're doing is my, my child is doing something that I do not want them to do and I now need to intervene.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:52Jefferson Fisher?

  And my wife does, she follows what you do on the, I can see you're having a hard time.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:59Jefferson Fisher?

  I can see that we're having a hard time letting go. We're having a, I, I see that you need help getting your shoes on. Right? Because we've told you to put on your shoes three times and that, that hasn't happened kind of thing. Very different from

• 40:14Jefferson Fisher?

  the way, when it's just pure words and communication of

• 40:19Jefferson Fisher?

  you can't backtalk to me and turning that into, I don't respond to backtalk. You see that, that letting that be the boundary. If, if you're going to continue to backtalk me, then we're going to spend the rest of the afternoon doing X, or then we're going to be doing X, Y, and Z. And that consequence being something that you're actually going to be willing to do. Don't, don't assign the false consequence. To me, that's one of the biggest crimes you can, you know, have of being, putting a consequence of if you, if you don't, I'm going to take away this toy. You have really no intention of taking away.

• 40:57Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 40:57Jefferson Fisher?

  That, that, or you know, I'm going to sell all your things. Don't say things that don't have a true consequence.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:02Jefferson Fisher?

  You know?

• 41:04Speaker 02

  I learned that the real hard way. My youngest is zero percent people pleasing. I mean, he's amazing. He's gonna, he's so charismatic, like a lot of these kids are. And there was a time I, I was not at my best because I'm not always either. And I was like, if you keep doing this, I'm going to take away all your stuffed animals. This is a kid who's, feels so much older than his age, but does sleep with stuffed animals because it's really a softie. And it's like the meanest thing I could say. I'm going to take away your stuffed animals.

• 41:27Jefferson Fisher?

  That's pretty rough.

• 41:28Speaker 02

  This kid walked to his room. He got the stool. Gets a roller suitcase from the top of his shelf.

• 41:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, no.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  He takes all of his stuffed animals. Puts them in.

• 41:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Zips it, gives it back.

• 41:41Speaker 02

  Here you go.

• 41:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  One, zero.

• 41:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, that was good.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  But I think your reversal, Jefferson, is interesting. You, you can't talk to me that way. You're right, that's not in your power.

• 41:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  That's what I mean, like, your, your boundaries are your power. So to give it away to your toddler. It's not a good bet. Hey, if you keep talking to me that way. Whatever you say next, I'm, here's how we're gonna spend our afternoon, or I'm just gonna stay silent because I know you can do better, and then you do stay silent until they calm down. You're asserting what you will do. And so then the success of the boundary has nothing to do with your.

• 42:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Correct.

• 42:13Speaker 02

  Which is, I think, I think that's the key.

• 42:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, there are two different things, you know, I think what you do is spot on with, if there's an activity that I now need to intervene on, if there is where that kid is back talking, rude behavior, yelling, having that kind of thing, then that's, I think, they both work in tandem with each other, because to me, it's, here's my requirement for how we're going to interact.

• 42:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:39Jefferson Fisher?

  I've made my choice, what comes next, that choice is yours.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:42Jefferson Fisher?

  And if you want to continue to act rude, then this is where we're gonna, this is where we're gonna go, but understand, that's, that's the consequence of your, of your behavior and your action. I do, I found it funny on the one, two, three, because I was, one of the things I was gonna ask was, you know, does one, two, three really work? I, I grew up on the one, two, three. And I absolutely have used and will occasionally still use the one, two, three. When I need them to go upstairs and get ready for bath, they know how to get ready for bath. They're just kind of playing around, they're finding some ways to procrastinate and, you know, and so when I get to two, my son's gone.

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Of course he does.

• 43:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Right? My daughter will look at me and count to three, she'll say three to my face, okay?

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I love her.

• 43:33Jefferson Fisher?

  So.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  I love your son too.

• 43:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, I'm telling you, she, she suffers no fools, okay? And so, um, it's, it's the best that way. So what I've done instead is I will just do, like, sometimes I'll make it fun as a, like, can y'all beat me up there?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 43:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Then if I do that, it's like, y'all can't beat me. Then it's, as soon as I act like I'm going, they're gone, and they, because they wanna, and then it's, now it's a team, they won against.

• 44:07Speaker 02

  Against you, and look, kids like that, like your daughter or my son, they have this need, and it's healthy, it doesn't have to be unhealthy to feel powerful, and they wanna, they always wanna tell their parent, hey, I know you're bigger than me, but I, I really need you to know I'm a person too. Right, which why she's like, three.

• 44:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Speaker 02

  Three, I'm gonna say before you say two, one, three.

• 44:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 44:25Speaker 02

  Now what, like, what do you got?

• 44:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly.

• 44:26Speaker 02

  And, and what you're actually doing in a game is you're giving her a much more prosocially effective way.

• 44:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 44:33Speaker 02

  To feel powerful.

• 44:34Jefferson Fisher?

  And you're great at, uh, doing it, of having all these tips of, make a game, find a way to make a game into it, and that's true with her, I can make a game, and all of a sudden, it's, it's totally different.

• 44:47Speaker 02

  You know, another thing, kids like that, not if you've ever tried it, tried it with her, um, because there are times when you're like, I can't make a game, or I just like need you to do this thing, you know, and I remember this moment, I was sitting with my youngest, sorry, I was not sitting, you'll hear why, he was sitting on a disgusting New York City sidewalk, and I was crouching, even I won't really sit there, and he wouldn't walk to a restaurant we were going to, not going, right, and he's, he was big. So I was like, okay, I, I started doing this random thing, and my husband's like, what are you doing? I was like, what is, I can't remember what it was, but it was a math equation, I was like, what is, if I have two groups of apples, I just kind of, he's a kid who really loves math, and he feels very strong and capable at math.

• 45:29Speaker 02

  And I kind of knew, he was sitting down as a way of saying, I'm a strong, capable kid, what are you gonna do?

• 45:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  And I was like, I wonder if I give him some, like, kind of random exit into a different form of capability, if he'll kind of get that need met, I swear, it was insane. What ended up happening, he stands up, he's like, that's not the right answer, it's this, you know, he's like, walked into it, I was like, got you. And so I'm curious for your daughter, with even like, if you don't have it in you to run up the stairs, what is her area of expertise? Like, I know someone else who's like, I tried this by saying the wrong song lyrics to something from Frozen, my daughter's obsessed with Frozen, and as soon as she corrected me.

• 46:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  The cooperation followed.

• 46:10Jefferson Fisher?

  She's definitely that.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:11Jefferson Fisher?

  She'll find a way, you know, to, to kind of add her two cents.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:15Jefferson Fisher?

  My favorite thing that she says right now is, you know, my son's never said this, and here she is six, and it's, she just goes, why do you always have to tell me what to do? Like, that was her line, and how I thought, you know what, that's, I'd be frustrated about that too, like, I'm always being told what to do. So I, I, I just kind of laugh it off of, baby, I, I get it. I, you know what, sometimes I don't wanna be told what to do either, you know, daddy gets told what to do too, sometimes, you know what, I don't really like it either.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  I, I think that's, it's the plight of a child.

• 46:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Right, for sure. Do you think that boundaries change as, uh, the, the boundaries that you need to give to a kid, do those boundaries change as they get older?

• 47:09Speaker 02

  Yes, and your ability to set true boundaries, right, versus a request, right? With an older kid gets increasingly hard. Young kid, hey, it's too hard to leave the playground, I'm gonna pick you up and carry you to the car, my kid's three, it stinks, but they can do that. My kid's 14, hey, it's time to leave the party, I'm gonna carry you, definitely not happening, so.

• 47:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Or a kid's 16.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  The phone charges in the, you know, kitchen, as an example, well.

• 47:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Or they can drive.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  That's right, I mean, there are, most boundaries, the truth is, as people get older, are more requests that you need some cooperation around, like, because again, they're bigger, you can tell them what you're gonna do, but I think what that means is, older kids definitely need boundaries, especially around screens, especially around phones, especially what's in their room at night, things like that.

• 48:03Speaker 02

  But the importance of being connected to your kid only matters more as you get older, because that's the only way your kid will listen to anything you say, like, the only reason a teenager is gonna tell you the truth, or cooperate on something that they don't inherently want to do when they're 15 versus five, is that they have, over the course of their many years, felt seen by you, respected by you, and, and sometimes I think, you know, and the adolescence that we have in America has traditionally been, um, you know, full of so many arguments, the teen years are the worst, right? And look, teens are meant to separate from their parents, and they, we all overcorrect before we kind of come back, right?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  So we have to push our parents away, but I do think that if you have parented your kid only through rewards, punishments, fear, your kid becomes 14, and if they're not a people pleaser, they look at you and they just think, I am not scared of you, and I don't care about your stickers, I don't care about your stickers, and we have missed 14 years of having a relationship, so that rule about my phone, there is no relationship to kind of stick that flag in.

• 49:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, because it's, it, um, it's, I feel like the little things you do when they're five and six, it's just all compound interest to what you have when they're 25.

• 49:28Speaker 02

  That's the only thing you have when they're 25, is your relationship, and I just have to say, because I think we've mistaken the two, connecting with your kid is a completely different thing than saying yes to everything your kid asks.

• 49:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Keeping your kid happy all the time actually tends to lower your connection with your kid. There's only one way you can connect with your kid, when they're in optimal comfort and happiness, that's actually a very, very limited form of connection, and so I just wanna make sure to establish those are very different things.

• 49:54Jefferson Fisher?

  They are, I'm glad you pointed that out. I have a question.

• 50:00Jefferson Fisher?

  What is something that parents do that is well-meaning?

• 50:08Jefferson Fisher?

  But more often causes more harm than good? What do you see that tends to kind of rise to that level?

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:17Jefferson Fisher?

  In your practice?

• 50:18Speaker 02

  I, I mean, I, at the risk of sounding repetitive, although it's, it's important because it's always the thing, is, I think optimizing for kids' comfort and happiness leads to relief of a hard situation in the moment.

• 50:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Can you say that again?

• 50:36Speaker 02

  Optimizing for a kid's comfort and happiness in the moment leads to relief today, but tends to lead to a lot of entitlement and fragility and anxiety later on. And so, I'll give an example, you know, and we're recording right now, school year's about to start, like, you find out your kid isn't in class with their best friend, right, and they're upset, all my friends are in this class, like, calling the school, or before that happens, calling the school to make sure your kid is in class with their best friend, it feels, and I guess it feels like a really loving thing to do.

• 51:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Right, so it comes purely from love, but I, I tend to think in a long-term greedy way about parenting, that my kid's gonna be out of my house more than they're living in my house, the stakes only get higher, and what we do in the early years has an inordinately large impact on the rest of our kid's life, and so, do I want to forever be the person who rescues my kid from the discomfort of having to be in a class with new kids, which sure, that won't happen forever, but my kid is gonna have a job one day when they don't know anyone, my kid is going to have to be in new situations, I'm actually depriving my kid of the chance to feel capable, and worse, I'm sending my kid a message that I don't think they're capable.

• 52:01Speaker 02

  I have to micromanage their life and make their world tiny, and then they feel very tiny, even though they might not have a tantrum, you know? And so I, I guess I feel like maybe kids are screaming out to us, um.

• 52:19Speaker 02

  Help me develop into the type of adult who's going to be able to succeed in the world.

• 52:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  And I think about teens especially and young adults I used to see, and I think this really matters, who legitimately felt angry at their parents.

• 52:33Jefferson Fisher?

  For making their life too comfortable?

• 52:35Speaker 02

  Like, oh, me yelling at you as a 12 year old was enough for you to change your decision? Like, grow up. Like, now I have to suffer the consequences. And I think when we think about kind of our kid in the future,

• 52:55Speaker 02

  it helps us make decisions that help our kid through a tough situation today in a way that's actually going to prepare them for the world they're going to encounter tomorrow.

• 53:08Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you raise a confident kid?

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 53:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Who is not also entitled, self-important, full of themselves?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  So I want to break apart two words, confidence and entitled, two of my favorite things because, okay, so going back to definitions, right? I think we've been given a definition of confidence that makes us optimize for the wrong thing. I used to think confidence was feeling good about yourself. I don't know, feel good about myself. I don't think that's confidence at all. I think confidence is self-trust, which are actually very different things when you think about intervening. Because when I think about the most confident person I know, and this is what got me thinking about confidence differently. It was this girl in my class in a seminar at Duke who was super smart. She was like really, really brilliant. And there was a part in the seminar where I still remember this. I was so confused about what my professor was saying. I was like, I don't really know what you're saying. And I just remember thinking, ah, I don't know.

• 54:04Speaker 02

  I looked around, everyone else seemed to be nodding. I was like, I guess I'll figure it out later. This girl shot her hand up and she goes, I'm really sorry, and I'm sorry if everyone else gets this. I usually understand everything you say. I'm totally confused the last couple of minutes. Is there any way you could say it in a different way? It feels important to understand. I was like, damn, damn, that's confidence. She trusted her confusion enough to say something. And more than that, she was able to hold on to something complicated in that moment. I'm a good, smart person who is confused right now. If she was trying to feel good, which frankly, back in the day when I was 18, I was. If I was trying to be confident by feeling good, I talked myself out of my experience. It's probably fine.

• 54:46Speaker 02

  So I think building confidence in kids comes from very different things. When our kid says, I'm the only one in my class who can't read. Confidence doesn't come from saying to that kid, that can't be true, but you're the fastest runner. That's what we say when we're trying to make a kid feel good about themselves. A kid comes home and says to their dad, I'm the only one in my class who can't read. And essentially someone says back, that's not true. That's what we're saying. You don't feel that way. Confidence is actually built when you say to a kid in that situation,

• 55:20Speaker 02

  first of all, thank you for telling me this. Tell me what happened today. Sounds like a hard day. I can tolerate this experience in my kid. Now my kid's going to be able to be confident because they're going to be able to tolerate a wider range of things that happened to them instead of a narrower range.

• 55:36Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you make, what can a parent do to make sure that their kid is not

• 55:45Jefferson Fisher?

  entitled or full of themselves? And what I mean is, you know, I want to boost my kids with all the, I believe in you so much.

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:55Jefferson Fisher?

  And what I don't want is ever, the fear is, on the other end of the spectrum is the ego, the, you know, the Draco Malfoys of the world, you know, that's, that's not what I want.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Well, give me, give me a scenario made up of an entitled kid that you're like, Becky, I have the heebie jeebies thinking about that.

• 56:15Jefferson Fisher?

  There was a kid who, I, I know. And they have every, first off, they're wearing every trend that could be happening. Okay, from head to toe, everything, every, any kid wants, that my son wants, this kid has. Phone, already at the age of like eight. And is listing off all the places that he's gone to with his parents. Okay, and doesn't really care to share at all with any of the kids. That to me comes across as somebody who's probably entitled.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, agree. So what I hear in all those things has every single brand, already has a phone, doesn't share. I think entitlement is fear of frustration. That's what it actually comes from in our body. And what I mean by that is if every time a kid is frustrated, you know, and you get frustrated when you want a shirt and your parent says no. When you want to play with blocks and you have to wait. When you ask for a phone and you're told, yeah, no way, you're eight. Okay, whatever the version is. Whenever you want something and you don't have it, you're frustrated. Okay, so think about this kid.

• 57:35Speaker 02

  I don't know him, but every time his body got frustrated, it sounds like it was met with an off switch. And it looks like it's about money. And money is complicated with entitlement because primarily the way a lot of people use money is to turn off frustration.

• 57:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 57:53Speaker 02

  Right? And so I want the shirt ordered. I want a phone at Verizon, right? I don't want to share these blocks. I'm making this up. Okay, I'll get your sister one set and I'll get you another set and you'll never have to actually share. It's not about sharing or items. It's actually about your body never learning to tolerate the frustration of not having something. But it's worse, which is why it's fear. When every time you're frustrated, you have a parent who turns it off by giving you something, you actually wire your fear next to your, your parents are scared of you being that way. That's why, that's the only reason they'd avoid it. And so they give you everything. And so entitlement, even in adulthood, right? All that is actually under the hood is someone who's frustrated

• 58:36Speaker 02

  and probably still has the coping skills of a two year old. Or worse, they've lived a life, Jefferson, where someone has shut off the frustration. So now, I'm sorry, I'm not bumped up to first class, even though I am a medallion, whatever. What they're really saying is, where is the person who will turn off my frustration because I have learned that that's what the world will do? That's, and so the best way to not have an entitled kid, and I could be concrete about this, is to make sure you don't take frustration away from your kid or to make sure there are literal doses in your, hey, can you drop me off before we go to?

• 59:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Intentional doses.

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, my sister's soccer game. No, sweetie, we're going as a family. And by, and by the way, your kid might say, but my sister doesn't even play. She's on the bench the whole time. You're like, yeah, that's, and we're not bringing her in, but we're going to do that every Saturday. And it's not going to be fun. And I'm going to expect you to whine. That is not a kid who feels entitled to personal pleasure and enjoyment every hour of their weekend because they have built in time where they are actually frustrated and not getting exactly what they want. That's so important.

• 59:52Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you know if you're spoiling your kid? I can tell you, I, I'm, I think I'm overly cautious of it. If I have to lean one way, I'd lean on, in terms of, I'm really aware of, okay, if my kid is having a different experience than what another kid is having, I feel like I need to have a conversation with them about how this is different and this is not what everybody gets. Or there, I'm, I'm a, I don't want to have a spoiled kid.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I know there are other people listening and that's like one of their biggest fears is having a kid who's spoiled.

• 1:00:32Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think, how do I know if I have a spoiled kid is very similar to how do I know if I'm creating an entitled kid? And I think you know, when you watch what happens when your kid has to do something that's not for their enjoyment, when they have to wait or when they have to do something that inherently isn't enjoyable. And if you watch your kid over and over have huge meltdowns around that, I would say to a parent, doesn't mean you're having a spoiled kid. It means you have to really shift things and make sure your kid has more opportunities to fold the laundry and unload the dishwasher and go to their kid's soccer game, go to their sister's soccer game.

• 1:01:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Can I share with you what's been one of the biggest conversation boosters around that whole? At least it's helped my fear of, am I raising a spoiled kid? Is getting them involved in any type of community service activity. And you have to make it a family thing. And so whether it's mission trip, whether it's helping with an initiative for people who are underprivileged or whatever it is, I have found that that has at least a, at least opens the door for trying to reverse that. Because I think there are a lot of people who go, oh my gosh, I give my kid an iPad at the drop of the hat

• 1:01:50Jefferson Fisher?

  and the TV's on all the time and I, we don't, they're, they, they have everything that they could possibly want and I've made nothing difficult and they, and they really are spoiled. How do we reverse that kind of thing?

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  And so I guess I'll amend my answer because I think that's really good. I think one way to not raise a spoiled kid is just to pay attention to how your kid reacts when things don't go their way. And if they really can't tolerate it, it's a sign they need more opportunities for things not to go their way. Now, another thing I think that matters is impact on the world around them. There's something about the word spoiled, it's not just about having things. It's kind of a sense that I am the protagonist of the universe, you know?

• 1:02:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  Not just of my life.

• 1:02:33Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm the main character.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, of everyone's life. And so when you do community service, even when you do involve your kid in doing grocery shopping for the family while you stay in the car or in New York City while you stay in your apartment, they have an opportunity to exist in the world and feel impactful. Because I think the most generous interpretation of a kid who's entitled and spoiled is they're kind of just always gazing in only like their own needs and their own wants. And so beyond learning to tolerate not having, they, you're right, they have to get out in the world and kind of be involved in other people's worlds.

• 1:03:13Jefferson Fisher?

  I keep thinking of the the hundred percent thing that I I'm telling you right after this, I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna tell Sierra, say, I'm gonna be trying something.

• 1:03:24Speaker 02

  It's just as true in marriage. It's true in any system, any system.

• 1:03:28Jefferson Fisher?

  No, yeah, I think it it spans any system. I absolutely agree to that.

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:34Jefferson Fisher?

  This is a point that is akin to what we just spoke about. How do you raise a human who can handle being told no?

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  I mean, I think it starts with being a parent who says no to your kid.

• 1:03:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57Speaker 02

  I, you know, a couple of years ago, someone came up to me and goes, Dr. Becky, I hear we're not supposed to say no to our kids. Everything should be a creative yes. I'm like, where are you getting this information? Can we go to the park? Yes, we can go on Saturday. Like, if I had to change everything, like, also, if we just think the world today is a little bit of a microcosm with my kid for what they're going to carry here, they're not going to get a million creative yeses.

• 1:04:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Now, if a parent listening to this is saying, great, that feels validating. I say no to my kid with 95% of my communication, that's not going to be a great relationship.

• 1:04:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  But most parents say have overcorrected and we find a creative yes, or we think we say no, but we actually ask our kids permission. We do this weird, okay, at the end, right?

• 1:04:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:48Speaker 02

  You know, can I watch another show? Look, it's not good for you. Okay.

• 1:04:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:53Speaker 02

  Can I watch another show? No, sweetie, TV is over.

• 1:04:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:57Speaker 02

  Then stop talking. So that, I think about this concept of emotional vaccination a little bit. Like, if we think about the purpose of a vaccine, it's to give your body chance to respond to something before the big thing is coming. The big thing is your boss is going to say no, your

• 1:05:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Correct.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  girlfriend's going to say no. Those are high stake situations sometimes. So every time you say no to your kid and hold the line lovingly and firmly, they're both possible, you're getting your kid ready. And I think, yeah, what I want parents to know is if for the first time at 20, they're hearing the word no, it's kind of unfair to expect my kid to just react well to that when it it probably feels like an assault on their body because they've never really heard that before.

• 1:05:47Jefferson Fisher?

  If you want your kid to learn how to handle being told no, you need to start with maybe telling them no.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  And then stop talking.

• 1:05:55Jefferson Fisher?

  And then stop talking instead of trying, because what will happen is it teaches them that there's, there's something after the, there's a chance that we can negotiate this and compromise this and and possibly break you down.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Yeah. And I think we have this negative view, like, yeah, then my kid, you know, pushes further, tries to manipulate me. Like, if I'm passing her on a plane and I somehow knock on the door of the cockpit, I say, can we, you know, detour to Hawaii? And the person's like, no, but let me explain why and let me talk. I'm sorry, you're supposed to be focusing on the flight.

• 1:06:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:06:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Speaker 02

  Done. It, I'm gonna push further because it actually makes a kid feel very unsafe when they're being recruited as kind of the need to approve of their parents' decision.

• 1:06:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:06:46Speaker 02

  Like, you're, you're, you're now asking me to make you feel better for saying no. They do act out more because they don't really feel like they have a sturdy leader.

• 1:06:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. My, my son, when I, I will tell him, like, okay, hey, it's time to put down the, he loves to read. So, okay, we need to put down the candles. It's time to go brush your teeth. He'll go, no, thank you.

• 1:07:10Speaker 02

  So polite.

• 1:07:11Jefferson Fisher?

  And very polite. He's learned if he's can try and be polite. He'll be like, no, no, thank you, Dad. I appreciate that. But no, no, thank you. And he's, he is absolutely completely genuine about it. And so I have to be like, that's very polite. We still need it. We still to make that work. And my kids, for good or for bad, are very good at finding every, if the door is locked, they're going to check every window, you know, to every argument that there is. And so a lot of the times he starts to kind of create an argument and I'll be like, I see where you're going. I respect that. I appreciate that. I'm gonna give you points for creativity.

• 1:07:53Jefferson Fisher?

  The answer is still no. But when I do that, I'm giving you some points.

• 1:07:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:07:57Jefferson Fisher?

  For some, you know, standing your ground on this. I, I admire that. So when I compliment, not the, exactly the, the content, but I'm complimenting or acknowledging the character trait.

• 1:08:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:16Jefferson Fisher?

  It seems to go a lot better when, you know, for my daughter, who, like we said, is very fiery, I'll say, I see that fire. I like that. It's very strong. I love your strong personality.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:08:27Jefferson Fisher?

  But there's something about that, that it, it, it flows. It flows through and they don't mind going through it. Once I have been like, okay, that was a great point.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think what makes sense about that is I think at any age, we're all just looking to feel seen.

• 1:08:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 1:08:45Speaker 02

  And we're not actually looking to feel seen in the very specific content on the surface. We're looking to feel seen in the part it comes from. Right? And so when we do, we all get a little more flexible on the surface. Like when my kid says, I don't want to go to school today. You're going to school, right?

• 1:09:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:03Speaker 02

  I have a stomach ache. I have, it just is going to escalate because I think the thing my kid needs to hear is, yeah, that makes sense. We just finished summer. I wouldn't really want to go to school either. I gotta get your breakfast ready, bagel or yogurt. Like, that's as my, and that, that part, once that's seen, for all of us, often loosens up.

• 1:09:22Jefferson Fisher?

  To be able to say, hey, I see the element, yeah, the character trait in here that we can at least affirm, rather than going, no, I said, because I said so, I said no.

• 1:09:35Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:09:36Jefferson Fisher?

  I said, you should have, you know.

• 1:09:38Speaker 02

  Because that part of your kid probably is amazing. You're a kid who asks so many questions. After every answer, you have one more question. You're a really curious kid that's going to take you far in life. Your questions only take you so far today with me. I am tapped out. I love you. You know, like, but that's true. You don't want your kid to think they shouldn't ask questions.

• 1:09:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:55Speaker 02

  So name it. Set the boundary.

• 1:09:59Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it. I want to switch to school really quick.

• 1:10:03Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:10:03Jefferson Fisher?

  What can a parent do in the, let me rephrase that. What should a parent be doing in the first five minutes that they pick up their kid?

• 1:10:14Speaker 02

  Oh, such a good question. I actually think the first five minutes with your kid in the morning, the first five minutes you see them after school and the last five minutes of their day are just the three most impactful times. Sometimes I think, can I just be a good parent 15 minutes?

• 1:10:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  10, I'm gonna pick two. Um, so it depends on your kid's age, but, but actually it's probably mostly true. The biggest thing when you pick up your kid is to be available without questions and without an agenda. Okay?

• 1:10:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Just if you can, that means when you pick them up, quiet.

• 1:10:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Jefferson Fisher?

  All right. I love it.

• 1:10:49Speaker 02

  It's so hard because we have so, we want to know, we want to know about their day. But I mean, I'm sure you too, you travel all the time. You're doing a million things and you come home and if the first thing is, Jefferson, how was your day? Who was your guest on your podcast? What did you eat for lunch? Tell me who you played with. Did you end up calling up this doctor? You're like, ah, you know?

• 1:11:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I wouldn't like it.

• 1:11:10Speaker 02

  And it's not because anyone's wrong. It's just because you've just done a lot. You need to transition, right? And so I think sometimes the most loving thing we can do and we can show is just show up, right? And just try not to have so much of an agenda. Know you're going to get your questions answered probably in those last five minutes before bed, even though it's inconvenient when kids tell you everything.

• 1:11:34Jefferson Fisher?

  It is.

• 1:11:34Speaker 02

  Um, and, and I think the thing I want parents to know is, like, presence is an action.

• 1:11:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Tell me more.

• 1:11:44Speaker 02

  So you want me to just do nothing? You want me to, like, that's, you want me to just do nothing? I think just do nothing is a very funny phrase. Do you know how hard it is in 2026 to do nothing? Do you know how hard I have to work to stay quiet in front of my kids? I am doing nothing on the outside and I am doing everything on the inside to regulate my anxiety, my own needs, my own emotions. The irony is when we all do a lot on the outside, we ask all those questions or our kid is mad at us. We're like, you can't talk to me that way. It looks like I'm doing something on the outside and I'm doing nothing on the inside.

• 1:12:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 1:12:20Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, it's not just doing nothing. And I think the thing is a very, because I talk a good game, but I love action. So that phrase as a mantra, when I'm quiet in the car, when I'm quiet, when my kid yells something at me that is inappropriate, but also is just a sign they're not really in a productive conversation, please. Presence is an action. Presence is an action and it, and it helps me feel like it's enough.

• 1:12:50Jefferson Fisher?

  So when you pick up your kid.

• 1:12:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:52Jefferson Fisher?

  And we can boil this down. They say, one, resist the urge to say all of your litany of questions. Hey, how was your day? Which is probably going to get fine, good and nothing.

• 1:13:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Best to leave silence. Two, be ready to catch if anything's coming. Maybe nothing comes in that car ride. All right, nothing, maybe they're not wanting to talk.

• 1:13:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:16Jefferson Fisher?

  I'll ask my son, do you play any music? And sometimes he'll go, no.

• 1:13:19Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:13:19Jefferson Fisher?

  And we just ride in silence.

• 1:13:21Speaker 02

  Great.

• 1:13:21Jefferson Fisher?

  And he's totally good because then he'll start to hum like by himself. And I already know he's calming himself down.

• 1:13:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Jefferson Fisher?

  And three, know that it's probably going to come. The questions are, all the information you want to know is going to happen right when you're laying them down to bed and they're not wanting to fall asleep.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  And you want to be on the couch.

• 1:13:37Jefferson Fisher?

  And you, and you're, and you're so exhausted. And you're so exhausted.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Now, my one trick, and I'll share it.

• 1:13:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 1:13:44Speaker 02

  For finding out about your kid's day before the last five minutes. Still give yourself the transition. Don't. Kids love to correct parents. They love to correct parents. I was just watching this reel. They're like, I ask, oh, did you play soccer with Jai? It's Jay.

• 1:13:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:59Speaker 02

  It's right. It's like so intense.

• 1:14:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:02Speaker 02

  You can use this. So when you say to your kid, what did you do at recess?

• 1:14:08Speaker 02

  Nothing, right?

• 1:14:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:09Speaker 02

  I randomly would say, not in the first car ride. Oh, today at recess, I was playing with Max and it was so annoying. He always has to go first on the slide. I could always go, that's not what happened. Well, what actually happened is Max wanted to be quarterback in this. You just walked away. And so kind of pontificating in a way that lets your kid correct you.

• 1:14:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 02

  Not in the first 20 minutes is a great hack to kind of find out about a young kid's day.

• 1:14:35Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it. That's fantastic. What is one of the biggest misconceptions when it comes to parenthood?

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  That you have to get it right all the time.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  Because I just want to establish getting it right all the time would be bad for your kid. Forget not being possible. The model of a relationship we have with our kid forms the foundation for how they think about love in the future. So I don't want my kid to go into adulthood thinking, who's going to get it right all the time? Who's going to be perfectly attuned to my needs? And so repair is really the most important part of good parenting. And you can't repair if you don't mess up. So if you think about that, if you're going to try to get good at repair, step one is yelling, is snapping, which doesn't mean great. I'm going to do more of that. It means when that happens, because I'm human,

• 1:15:30Speaker 02

  I now have the opportunity to do the healthiest thing for my kid's future. I can go and say, I'm sorry I yelled. I'm sure that felt bad. I'm working on staying calmer even when I'm frustrated. And that is so powerful to a kid.

• 1:15:44Jefferson Fisher?

  When you say repair is one of the number one things that you have to be able to show in parenthood necessarily means you have to mess up. And they need to see you mess up.

• 1:15:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:15:55Jefferson Fisher?

  The phrase that I use to model repair with my kids is I will say, daddy didn't say that very nice titty. I could have said that better.

• 1:16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:09Jefferson Fisher?

  And what I have found, Dr. Becky, is not yet my daughter, but my son, he'll say, I didn't say that very nice dad. I need to say that again. And so it's that like little, but see, we would never, we would have never gotten to that place had I not raised my voice or not said it as kindly and been perfect.

• 1:16:32Speaker 02

  That, that's right.

• 1:16:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Have to see it, the, the, they have to see the humanness.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  That's right. And I, I think the other thing there is the words we use with our kids become the words they use with themselves and the words they use with others. It's not a surprise, he says the exact words you do. And it's also not a surprise, your daughter will probably take double the amount of time to get there, given her personality. But she will, so don't doubt it. It really will. And you're right, you couldn't have ever shared those words, which by the way, your son will use for so many years after he's out of your house. That could have never happened if you were perfect, always calm, always saying the right thing, dad. So yeah, it's such a gift.

• 1:17:15Jefferson Fisher?

  And honestly, that's such a like, huh, a relief moment that I can actually be a little kind to myself rather than beating myself up of whether I didn't do it as perfectly as I should have.

• 1:17:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's the best it gets in parenting. Whenever I hear myself talk on a podcast, I leave thinking, I'm going to do one of those ideas I talked about today. I'm going to do it a little better today. And then I'm going to repair a lot more. I think that's, that's what I try to hold myself accountable for.

• 1:17:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Love repair. What do you say to your kid when they say, I can't, I can't do it?

• 1:17:44Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 1:17:46Speaker 02

  Okay, I think there's what you say in the moment, but I think the power is what you say before those moments. There's only so, you can only be so effective in a hard moment in any situation. So in a calm moment, find your kid and truly say this to them when it's calm. By the way, do you know that whenever I'm frustrated with something hard, I have this voice in my brain? And it starts to trick me. Instead of it saying, this is so hard, it says, I can't. That might happen to you. It might happen to you today when you do your homework. Could you let me know if it comes? I'm actually preloading a story for them and their relationship with I can't. I really mean this, is forever different. Because instead of it coming by surprise and taking over, they're looking for it. You know how insanely different that is?

• 1:18:29Speaker 02

  Now my kid is doing math homework and they will be able to say, dad, I heard that I can't voice. That is mental health, your ability to recognize something before it's taken over. Then in the moment, I think you can reframe it. I can't.

• 1:18:44Speaker 02

  You're right, this is a really hard puzzle. You're right, it's really hard to start an essay. And then I would get practical. My second grade teacher told me this, I will never forget it. I use it with my kids all the time. If something feels too hard to do, it just means the first step isn't small enough. So what is the first step? Well, I have to write this essay. Oh, I couldn't do that either. What's smaller, a paragraph? That sounds intimidating. What about a sentence? What about a word? And usually when you make something small, your kid can do it.

• 1:19:09Jefferson Fisher?

  If you can put it into a story or a voice or a other, then it's, it's not, I as a person cannot, it's I'm hearing the voice that says that I can't.

• 1:19:21Speaker 02

  Well.

• 1:19:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Very different thing.

• 1:19:23Speaker 02

  That's any emotion or thought. As soon as you can kind of see that thought as a passenger in your car,

• 1:19:31Speaker 02

  instead of the driver of your car.

• 1:19:33Jefferson Fisher?

  I like that.

• 1:19:34Speaker 02

  It changes.

• 1:19:36Jefferson Fisher?

  Dr. Becky, thank you so much for coming on the show.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:19:39Jefferson Fisher?

  I admire you a ton. Thank you so much.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  So fun.

• 1:19:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Awesome.

• 1:19:43Speaker 03

  Whenever fall comes back around, it always feels like a fresh start. This year, I've been layering in some styles from the new Lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it. Lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces. So I can just wake up, throw on a matching set, add a jacket or a fleece and head out, knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough to go wherever the day takes me. Check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com.