Skincare Secrets, Hair Health, and Hormones with Dr. Mamina Turegano

We all have so many questions about skin, hair, aging, hormones, diet, the list goes on – so we brought in Dr. Mamina Turegano, a triple board-certified dermatologist, internist, and dermatopathologist – to answer them. We discuss the lifestyle factors that accelerate the aging process and how to manage them, the best foods for healthier skin and hair, all the tea on topical estrogen, and the truth about chemical vs. mineral sunscreen. We deep dive on hair health – what causes hair loss/shedding, growth products that actually work, the one thing NOT to do if you’re shedding excessively, GLP-1s and hair loss, if oiling is worth it, and how often to wash your hair. And we get into skincare, including the three products everyone should have, what to use at what age and in what order, products to splurge and save on, retinoids, red light, collagen, microneedling, salmon sperm facials, and more. Before Dr. Mamina joins us, Rayna opens up a fridge debate and how she prepped for a male visitor, and Ashley has a dog update. Enjoy! Follow Dr. Mamina on Instagram @dr.mamina and check out dermclick.com. Follow us on Instagram @girlsgottaeatpodcast, Ashley @ashhess, and Rayna @rayna.greenberg. Visit girlsgottaeat.com for more. Thank you to our partners this week: Rocket Money: Reach your financial goals faster at https://rocketmoney.com/gge. BetterHelp: See reviews and decide if it’s right for you at https://betterhelp.com/gge. IM8: Get a free welcome kit, 5 travel sachets and 10% off your order at https://im8health.com/gge and use code GGE. SmileSet: Get $500 off your aligner treatment at https://smileset.com/gge. Mint Mobile: Get your new wireless plan for just $15/month at https://mintmobile.com/gge. Revolve: Get 15% off your first order at https://revolve.com/GGE with code GGE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's even overwhelming for me and I feel like I know better. I am 43. I have a lot of information. I know it works for me and I still am like, do I need that? Should I be getting that treatment?

• 0:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my gosh. Same. And I'm a dermatologist.

• 0:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  This podcast is a Dear Media production.

• 0:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Hi guys.

• 0:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hi guys.

• 0:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Welcome back to another episode of Girls Gotta Eat.

• 0:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Welcome back. Coming to you from both coasts yet again. We're making it work.

• 0:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, the interview, we were together and it was a blast.

• 0:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. So we have a really fun interview today with Dr. Mamina Turegano and we are talking all about skin and hair and it's really fun. But before we get into it, we're just going to catch you guys up on some stuff. Okay. I have something so exciting to tell you.

• 0:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, before you tell me.

• 0:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  What?

• 0:58Rayna Greenberg?

  You know what's funny? It's like, this is an episode not about like dating or sex or relationships, but you did manage to get salmon sperm in there.

• 1:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just wait. It's at the very end. Listen till the end and we got, that's how we make it sexy. If you can bring up sperm, which I'm sure you have plenty of that all over your house.

• 1:19Rayna Greenberg?

  What?

• 1:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Hair. It's in my hair. It's everywhere. Okay. Well, I have something really exciting to announce. So today, as you guys listen to this, Shashank and I are starting our foster dog journey. So we have been wanting to foster. I feel really inspired by Isabel Clee, who we had on and Azul is just so good with other dogs. So I really was like, let's just try it. Let's just see if we can bring another dog in the home. He can have a buddy and we got approved with wags and walks. And when they send the list out of all the dogs that are available for fostering, they're not always a fit because some of them can't be in a home with another dog or just various reasons. They might have something going on health wise, which could be fine if you didn't have another dog at home. But like with Azul, obviously he's

• 2:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  our priority. So we put in our first choices when we got the email yesterday. I sit all day waiting for this email to come. It comes around like lunchtime and I'm just like waiting and I pounce on it. And the first two options just were already spoken for. And then they were like, would you want to take this dog for a short term foster? We're only going to have him for like five days, which I thought was interesting and I don't really know why. I'll get the whole story. So today, as you guys listen, the 17th, we are going to take in this dog.

• 2:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Wait, you're sending a photo?

• 2:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Five days. And I'm just going to show you on the screen.

• 2:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my God. It's a black pug.

• 2:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's an eight year old, black, big pug, 25 pounds.

• 2:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Is it a boy or girl?

• 2:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's a boy.

• 2:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my God. I love him.

• 2:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  His name is Zizou, which like is something I call Azul.

• 2:54Rayna Greenberg?

  I know. How did this happen?

• 2:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we have Azul and Zizou, a senior pug. Can you believe the first?

• 3:03Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't believe I'm not there. I'm so upset. The first dog you foster is a pug. Oh, I'm so jealous.

• 3:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  So it just says, Zizou, eight year old, 25 pound male pug, mixed breed. He was found as a stray before coming into our care. He's really funny. He just wants to chill. Loves affection and he has some allergies and we might have to like give him a bath. He takes like weekly baths to manage his allergies.

• 3:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Like an old man.

• 3:32Rayna Greenberg?

  I can't wait to see videos of them together.

• 3:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm so excited. Just two black dogs. So we'll see how this goes. And honestly, this is probably for the best. Like, because usually you really need to commit to two weeks and we've never done this before. And so I like this short term, five day, see how it goes to start this whole process. So.

• 3:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you feel like a lot of this is going to fall on you? I mean, Shashank goes to work every day. I mean, it's just going to be you and the dogs every day.

• 4:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's why I like a old chill dog.

• 4:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Hell, yes.

• 4:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Eight is not that old, but they send you their personality types and there are a few that like, I love the look of them and the vibe, but they're like puppy energy and I just don't, they need, some of them say like needs an experienced handler, which I'm an experienced handler, but like, I'm taking two dogs. Like, we wanted to almost take this 120 pound St. Bernard. And I was like, I just can't do it.

• 4:26Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just, I, you can't be alone all day long with two giant dogs.

• 4:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, who's this to be behind?

• 4:33Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh my God, I'm so excited.

• 4:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Midday. Like, he can always, he juts home midday all the time.

• 4:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. All right. So you can come help babysit in the middle of the day. Well, yay. Congratulations. I'm very excited. I can't wait to see all the content online. This is, this really like picked, this picked up my spirits today. We've been having some issues. But this really lifted my, this, this lifted my spirits a lot.

• 4:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes. A pug for Raina. Okay. Well, let's just talk about our partners. Then I know you have some stuff to share.

• 4:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. Thank you to Rocket Money. Reach your financial goals faster at rocketmoney.com/gge and BetterHelp. See reviews and decide if it's right for you at betterhelp.com/gge. And IMate, get a free welcome kit, five free travel sashays and 10% off your order at imatehealth.com/gge and use code GGE.

• 5:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And thank you to SmileSet. Get $500 off your aligner treatment at smileset.com/gge. And Mint Mobile, get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month at mintmobile.com/gge. And Revolve, get 15% off your first order at revolve.com/gge with code GGE.

• 5:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. I'm dealing with a situation. I'm just curious what you think about it and what you do. I'm curious what the audience thinks. So I had this guy come to stay with me.

• 5:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  Raina's taking a lava.

• 5:49Rayna Greenberg?

  I'll tell you guys when there's something to tell you. But I've only been in this apartment like 10 days over the last two months. So I don't have food here. I have no food. I have zero things in my refrigerator. And like, Melanie was like, show me your refrigerator. I know it's fucking in there. It's tequila and water and like three prepared food containers. I know it is. And I open it. That's literally exactly the only thing that I have in there.

• 6:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  I can picture it. I've seen it. And those water bottles, you guys are just like water bottles, like that she just refills from the tap, which is fine. But it's like, you're not getting a freshie. You're never going to break the seal on a water bottle out of Raina's fridge.

• 6:24Rayna Greenberg?

  No, that's a good point. You're never going to break the seal. So Melanie forced me to go to the grocery store and stock the fridge. She was like, you're going to look like a serial killer. Like you need food for a man if he's like in your house. And I'm like, I don't, why? Who cares?

• 6:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  He looks like he eats. He eats a lot of protein.

• 6:42Rayna Greenberg?

  He needs it.

• 6:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  When he popped in earlier, I was like, please let him still be there. I just wanted to look.

• 6:50Rayna Greenberg?

  So I was like, what do I get? So I made her like make me a grocery list.

• 6:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  You get out of the game so long. What do men eat?

• 7:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, what do people keep in their refrigerator? I just, I don't do that. Like, I go to Whole Foods when I need food or I go to the grocery store downstairs. I get the prepared foods I need. But like, I didn't even have condiments. Like, I don't have a bottle of ketchup in the fridge. I have nothing. So I had to go to the grocery store and like, I got stuff for charcuterie. I got three cheeses and three meats. I wanted to make it look like I cook breakfast sometimes. So I got spinach and eggs. I got limes and lemons for the tequila. I got some La Croix. And then I stocked the whole fridge with condiments. I just sent you this photo and it's, I think they're a little, we'll put it up on the screen for you guys too. I think they're a little too organized and.

• 7:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  It looks performative.

• 7:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes. Melanie told me it looks like an AI photo of condiments.

• 7:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  100%. This is the funniest photo. It's also just like really clean and nice, but it, it looks like a woman entered the dating world and was like, I need condiments in my fridge. So this guy doesn't think I'm a psycho and that's what she did.

• 8:01Rayna Greenberg?

  And you know what else she made me do is I had to open them all. So I had to take the little plastic off.

• 8:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  You did it to break a seal.

• 8:09Rayna Greenberg?

  So I had to open all the condiments up and make everything look like it's been used. I had to like use a little bit of some of them. Like I just spilled out some of the mayonnaise.

• 8:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stop it. You were like, you know what? Let's put a little fried red hot around the top. You know, it gets all like.

• 8:22Rayna Greenberg?

  All crusty.

• 8:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Jelly or crusty around the top. Yeah. Raina, I like what you have going on here, though. I like this organic Greek yogurt dressing. Looks good. Are there olives? Capers? You got capers.

• 8:33Rayna Greenberg?

  I got capers and cornishones. I got two. I'm sending you a photo of the full fridge as well, so that you know that there's a, I got two bottles of natural wine. I got some hummus.

• 8:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  This looks great.

• 8:44Rayna Greenberg?

  He said he likes Mountain Valley.

• 8:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  He says he likes Mountain Valley.

• 8:47Rayna Greenberg?

  Mountain Valley water. I know.

• 8:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's how I know I like him. This is.

• 8:50Rayna Greenberg?

  My boyfriend and my wife, so much in common.

• 8:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  So, okay, lemon spindrifts. We have those in the fridge right now, too.

• 8:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, great.

• 8:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I see an ice roller. Love that. This is great.

• 9:00Rayna Greenberg?

  That's it. Yeah. He said that he likes Mountain Valley. So I got him one bottle. So I wanted to do something nice.

• 9:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then you will be refilling that from the tap, sir. New York water. He doesn't live in New York, y'all. So he doesn't know about that clean New York City water.

• 9:16Rayna Greenberg?

  I said, I said I had fill up with the tap and it's the best, it's the best tap water in the world. New York City water.

• 9:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  It is. It really is. Okay. Well, I think you did good.

• 9:23Rayna Greenberg?

  Emily was like, you need to have food in your fridge. You look like a serial killer. And I was like, well, unlike you, I give blowjobs. So when he gets here, I'll ask him if he would like me to suck his dick or if he'd like a slice of Monchego cheese. And I promise you.

• 9:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Fired. Poor Emily. Emily catching a stray over here?

• 9:38Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I'm proud of her. She feels no need whatsoever. She's like, I'm not like you. I'm pretty. So I don't have to suck dick. She's never said that to me. But yes, I was like, I don't, I suck dick unlike you. So you make a little charcuterie board. I don't have to.

• 9:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Monchego or a blowjob. Green and greenberg.

• 9:59Rayna Greenberg?

  I couldn't wait to tell you. Do you think men would care? I don't think they care about anything. But do you think it was, she said it was a huge red flag if somebody opens your fridge and there's no food in it. And I feel like if I opened a man's fridge and there was no food, I would find it a little odd, but I don't care what standard my refrigerator is being held to.

• 10:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't think a guy would ever be like, oh, I have the ick. She didn't have anything in her fridge. I just, I mean, you know me, I don't, I, my man cooks for me. So the fridge, that's his business. No, I, I make a lot of food too. But our fridge looks like so adult now. It's like, it looks like a grown up family fridge. There's tons of condiments, tons of stuff, you know, like, it's just, it's a lot. It's, it feels grown up. I feel proud of it. Tons of meat. That butcher box is still hidden.

• 10:44Rayna Greenberg?

  I still have tons of meat, but like, okay, other people, okay, if you don't have kids and you live above a grocery store, which is my situation, all I have to do is just go feed myself downstairs. Why would I have food in the fridge? I don't, if I want to cook something.

• 10:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Food. Like, I don't know. You have such weird eating habits. Like, I make breakfast. I make lunch and then we make dinner. I don't want to watch. To it, move the house for every meal.

• 11:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, I love to, I have to have my fruit in the morning. We get it from the farmer's market every Saturday and then I usually make eggs for a late breakfast with some sort of toast or English muffin or a bagel or whatever. And then I might have like something in the afternoon, then we cook dinner. I don't know. Like, we just got shit in the fridge and that's really not how you're living. But when your fridge is stocked, it's a good fridge. Cause when I would come to your house and you would have all those dips, all those prepared foods, like you really, your snack game is on point. It's all or nothing with you, really.

• 11:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. That's why I had sex three times today, you know, and, but I haven't had sex in ages.

• 11:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  You're gonna need that fuel. So you need to make sure you get those capers.

• 11:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Locked down. I don't know what the fuck those are for. Really get that Frank's red hot and those capers and those lemon spin drifts ready for the seventh time you guys fuck by the end of day.

• 12:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Uh, yeah, I don't think he would have opened up the fridge and be like, we're not having sex. Cause you don't have enough snacks.

• 12:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't, I don't think guys are, I don't know. It's, I guess there's guys out there that they want a woman who cooks and cleans and should be in the kitchen and they are thinking about it from a little more conservative angle and they would flag it, but also just anyone who lives alone. Can't really judge them on their fridge.

• 12:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Thank you. Thank you so much for the support. And also I do cook and clean. It's just, I don't happen to have anything in the fridge. Thank you. Thank you for your support. Well, let us know in the comments, what you guys think about this. Is it crazy to open up a woman's fridge and there's no food?

• 12:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  No.

• 12:36Rayna Greenberg?

  And do we care? I don't care what my thing.

• 12:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Live your truth, ladies.

• 12:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 12:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, I, I guess I want to share a little life update. We talked last week about my decision to move or not move from LA to New York. And I do feel like where I stand now is if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no right now. And Raina supports this. This isn't a surprise to her. I really just feel like if we're so, if we can't make this decision, then it's not the right time. And I really want to feel like I'm so ready. And that is how I am approaching this of like, if this decision is so hard to make, then we don't need to make it right now.

• 13:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. I mean, I thought we had you for a second to New York. I thought, I really thought we had you. I was like, she's gonna do it. We've had the most fun this summer. How could she ever be away from me? And I thought that you were really doing it. Shashank was in, but then we went back. I also went back with you. And when you went upstairs to take a shower and him and I were having our friendship moment downstairs, he was like, we just had this really nice day today and the weather was beautiful. And we took a walk with Azul. And we're just like in our house cooking dinner. And I just like, I don't think I'm ready for it either. And at least you're aligned on it. And I mean, I say all the time, it's not like I moved, no offense to like North Dakota, but I didn't move to North Dakota. Like you and I will be in each other's cities all the time. So.

• 13:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I have a lot of plans to go to New York. I was in New York a lot this summer and I'll keep doing that. And I just think that's the life I want to live right now. I've changed my mind. I thought it would be sooner than this. And I think where we're at now is like, if Shashank gets a job transfer or he gets like another job or an opportunity on the East Coast, we will go, or it will be the spring and it's kind of whatever comes first at this point, but I think we're going to be here a little bit longer. And we just had the best weekend and I just kind of wanted to share a couple of things that we did. So Saturday morning was this event with Dr. Barrett. And who is our surgeon who does, he does our injectables, but he, Raina's also gotten plastic surgery with him and she got a

• 14:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  breast augmentation and some other things. And they did this recovery wellness little retreat thing. And it was just so stunning. It was at this gardens in Beverly Hills, like Pilates class, sound bath, just like all these beautiful women and matching sets. I was like, this is paradise. It was so nice. He was there. He like spoke. His wife was there, Rosalyn, we love her. It was just like, so that's just a really nice thing. And like, those are the moments where I look around, I'm like, give this all up for what? You know? And I get it. There's, it's different lifestyle, but like, I'm really like, I like that. Like, you know what I mean? That's what I want to do on the weekends. But I said this all the time. I want to be in LA on the weekends. I want to be in New York during the week. So that was really nice. So shout out to Dr. Barrett. You guys always like check them out and they

• 15:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  are really focusing on this Barrett recovery, which is like the NAD supplements I take and the collagen that we take and the red light mask and all this stuff.

• 15:23Rayna Greenberg?

  And you know, I, I, we talk about him all the time, but he did my breast augmentation and the recovery was completely unlike the last. I mean, I needed an augmentation because of how bad the reduction was and truly was just like a different experience because of the steps that he gave me in terms of red lights and the things I, I was taking in terms of supplements and things like that. So, you know, I'm a, I'm a Barrett for life.

• 15:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So you guys can check out post-op recovery. This isn't like an ad this week. This is just, we want to tell you where to find this stuff. So postoprecovery.com is the red light, the magnesium, which is great. I take that at night, the NAD supplements. I, people have always asked me for this link, so I wanted to give it out in the actual podcast. And the collagen and all that stuff. My code is code Ash 20. So we did that. And then I see that Jaclyn, my wedding planner, who we've had on the podcast, she posted an Instagram story that she had been to Phantom of the Opera the night before in LA at the Pantages Theater. And I was like, what are you saying to me? This, as we, if you know, you know, that this was like the longest running show on Broadway of all time. And they took it off Broadway last year.

• 16:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  It ran since 87 or 88 or something. And they're traveling now. And I'm like, oh my God, what is this? And she goes, girl, you gotta go tonight, whatever it costs. I'm like, say less. My wedding planner says you have to do it no matter the cost. I'm doing it. I learned that all last year. So I was like, I have to go. I got a line. There were like six tickets left. I did splurge, but again, I didn't have many options. I got really good seats and Shashank and I went and it was incredible. I mean, I wanted to cry. I saw this when I was six with my mom on Broadway, really great seats. She took me into the city and it was like one of my core memories from childhood. And it, and it has still stayed my favorite musical of all time. I had the soundtrack. I listened to it nonstop. It is truly the best. I love it so, so much.

• 17:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it just hit the same, like the second, the like music starts and then like the chandelier shakes and they still drop the chandelier. Right. I couldn't believe they dropped the chandelier. Cause I would have thought that was in the eighties, different vibe. Now there's way more liability. I was like, are they gonna drop the chandelier? And they did. And Shashank loved it too. I was like, oh my God. I was just so happy that he loved it. And it was just amazing. The production value, the cast, the singing and all the original music. I was obsessed. So we did that. And then Sunday, we went and saw DJ Mike O'Leary, who DJed our wedding, but he is not a wedding DJ. He's this incredible DJ that does this thing called Sunday cleaning

• 17:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  at different spots, a lot in New York City and all over the country now. And put some on YouTube and people are obsessed with them. And he's so, so good. And we hadn't been to one of them. So he came to Orange County and it was about an hour, a little under an hour for us to get there. And we were able to go there and like be a part of it. It was in this coffee shop, record store hybrid called Contra Coffee in Orange, California. And he did his thing and like seeing him in his element and just like being able to vibe out. The vibes were so high, just midday. There was no alcohol. People were just having coffee. It's one to 4:00 PM. People are dancing. People are grooving and just, it was incredible. And it was so good to see him. Shashank had a gift from him. He had this Mac Miller vinyl that he had bought him to thank him after our wedding, that he hadn't gotten to him yet. So we gave him that.

• 18:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it was just like such a good weekend. Like those, you know, Dr. Barrett, Phantom of the Opera, Sunday cleaning with DJ Mike O'Leary. And I was like, yeah, I think we're gonna.

• 18:53Rayna Greenberg?

  I knew you were gonna fuck.

• 18:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Stay for a minute. And then we.

• 18:56Rayna Greenberg?

  I just, oh, this is about you moving. Get out of here. I knew you guys were gonna fuck. I was like.

• 19:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  We, we don't not fuck.

• 19:03Rayna Greenberg?

  No, I just knew that Sunday was a horny day. I just knew I could pick the days sometimes.

• 19:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So we had a good little sash. And that was the weekend. So, you know, just wanted to share those things. And if you guys ever get a chance to see Phantom of the Opera or Mike O'Leary or Dr. Barrett, you should.

• 19:23Rayna Greenberg?

  You know what I am really like? Like, you know what I like about here? I'm, what I'm really enjoying is that like every day this week for the last four days, like a friend of ours has texted me, I'm downstairs or I'm like right outside your building and like, can we go for a walk? And like, that's really why I moved here is to like have spontaneous plans with people like our friend Bobby was like, I'm, I was training somebody downstairs, making some content. Do you want to come out and like take a walk with me? Like, it's really nice to be like, I just have people around to get.

• 19:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I love that. I want to be around people all the time. And even I feel like most of the weekend I spent was Shashank, but at least going to that event on Saturday was with like a bunch of people. I met new people, like that really filled my cup. And then the rest of the weekend was mostly us. And I mean, in my, in different people, but I really want to be around people. And I think a lot of people travel in the summer and people are starting to come back. So I finally have social plans with the five friends I have here. And I have like a lunch tomorrow. I have like plans this weekend, plans next week. Like that's what makes me really happy and brings me joy and fills my cup is like friends, social activities, plans.

• 20:30Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, me too. We did it.

• 20:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  But yeah, it's obviously New York is the, the top when it comes to that. But I think, yeah, we're gonna stay here for a little while longer. So just an update from last week, but I could change my mind again next week. You guys really never know. I'd just like to keep you guys on your toes.

• 20:43Rayna Greenberg?

  I think, I think the, I think the FOMO, I'm just gonna lay it. I just, I don't like to be not nice to you. I feel like I don't like to be like, this is so fun. You should be here, you know? But I'm gonna layer on a little bit. I'm just gonna kick up the FOMO like 10% and be like, you should be here.

• 20:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  You do it enough. It's constant.

• 21:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bitch, you're the one that's like, you should stay. I know you're not ready to leave.

• 21:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause I support you no matter what you want to do, but I do want you to be here. I'm sick of this shit.

• 21:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 21:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I do fucking support you, whatever. But like, I'm sick of this.

• 21:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Listen, you have a man now. You're gonna be fine.

• 21:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Well, let's just talk about our partners and then we will get into it with Dr. Mamina. So I'm telling you guys about Smile Set. So we are talking today about the way you look and feel. And a lot of people don't love their smile and their teeth. And even if they're not super unhappy, but there's just something you want to change, you can do this so easily with Smile Set. So you can get these doctor prescribed clear liners done from home completely for 60% less than braces. So Smile Set offers all of this for 12.95. Again, 60% less than. Traditional braces or in-office treatment, a licensed doctor reviews your case and builds your custom treatment plan. So the way that it starts is you do your at-home impression kit.

• 22:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Again, this is all from home and then your aligners ship straight to you and then progress is monitored remotely through the Smile Set app. So the app is really, really easy to use and it's easy to do these impressions and then the doctor check-ins are available whenever you want them. So it's just kind of the best of both worlds that you get to do it from home, but then have the doctor walk you along in the process. And there are treatment options and payment plans that fit around your life, nighttime only aligners. So this is what I want to do is just straighten my teeth only at night. I don't want it to be all during the day, but you can do whatever you prefer. So you can just straighten your teeth while you sleep. Over 2 million smiles treated with this technology. There is a 30-day money-back guarantee after starting treatment, which is great, too. If you're a little hesitant, they are going to offer that to you and you guys

• 22:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  can check it out. You can visit smileset.com/dge to get $500 off your aligner treatment and finally make someday happen. That's smileset.com/dge for $500 off smileset.com/dge.

• 23:00Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. And this episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. So you've heard us talk about BetterHelp for a long time and obviously all the benefits that there are to therapy and checking in with yourself, whether you want to address things in your life, like your job, or your friend group, or your obviously romantic life. But I don't know if we ever really talked about how much people love the service when they use it. So you can check it out for yourself at betterhelp.com/reviews to see the amazing customer reviews in real time. So reviews are updated every day. There's hundreds of people saying how much they love BetterHelp and how helpful it is for them. And you can visit betterhelp.com/reviews to just see it for yourself. BetterHelp has an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client session reviews, the feedback from people that have actually used the service piece for themselves. And

• 23:45Rayna Greenberg?

  there's tons of other great stuff about it. More than 6 million people have used BetterHelp globally. So consistently, the feedback is fantastic and BetterHelp therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. So they are all required to be educated, trained, certified to manage different health specialties, and they can help you to easily get started. So you'll answer some questions. You can switch a therapist at any time if you don't like the one that is assigned to you and they'll help you find the right fit. See the reviews and see what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit betterhelp.com/gge. That's better H E L P dot com slash G G E.

• 24:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And I'm telling you guys about Mint Mobile. How many of you have been frustrated with your cell phone provider and just worried about like hidden fees and it's so expensive and like all the things? And that is where Mint Mobile comes in. So all of their plans are $15 per month, which sounds crazy, even the unlimited. I know. So you can really free yourself from big wireless and all their gimmicks and gotchas and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. So Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. Premium wireless for 15 bucks a month. I can't imagine. I mean, this is just to be what everybody has. All plans come with high-speed data, unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can even bring your current phone and your number. So you don't need to like lose your

• 25:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  number, get a new phone. You can just transfer it, super easy, and choose from three, six, or 12-month plans and say goodbye to a monthly bill. So you guys can ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile. It's so easy. Sign up online and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month. This is how it should be. What are we doing? Paying so much money for to talk on the phone. So we just love what they have done. And to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/gge. That's mintmobile.com/gge. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com/gge. That's it. There is no catch. And there's upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required, $50 per month equivalent.

• 25:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20 gigabytes of hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. And let's get into it.

• 26:04Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, guys. We are really excited to welcome our guest today. She is a triple-board certified dermatologist internist and dermatologist specializing in medical, cosmetic, and integrative dermatology with more than 2 million followers across social media, 16 years of experience in dermatology, and 11 years in a private practice. She has become a trusted voice on science-backed skincare, hair health, and wellness, blending traditional dermatology with a holistic approach. Please welcome to the show Dr. Mamina Turegonal.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Thank you so much for having me.

• 26:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  We're so glad to have you here. We are really passionate about all of this. This is a dating show, but you know, we've been doing that for eight years and so we're branching out into like more lifestyle stuff.

• 26:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, the relationship you have with your skin and your hair and how you present in the world.

• 26:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean, if you feel good and the way you look, obviously you're gonna, you know.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, it translates to everything.

• 26:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Exactly. So we're glad to have you here today.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Thank you. It's an honor. Love this.

• 27:00Ashley Hesseltine?

  So we want to just hear a little bit about you and your background. And obviously you've been to school and higher education for this and everything. Have you always been really interested in skin, hair, all of that?

• 27:10Speaker 02

  You know, I was, my first passion really is integrative medicine and taking a more holistic approach to health. And I didn't even know that I wanted to be a physician. It wasn't until I was in college where I was really interested in nutrition and I was really seeing like other approaches to health. There is an integrative doctor, Dr. Andrew Weil, who's based out of the University of Arizona. And I really liked his approach to health. He was a family medicine doctor, I believe, or primary care doctor, who then specialized in integrative medicine. So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna either do that or go to naturopathic medical school. And I decided to go to conventional medical school because I was like, if I have an M.D., I could probably do anything and I would have that credibility. So my plan was just to do primary care. But when I was in my third year of med school, I did an internal medicine rotation in a subspecialty called

• 27:53Speaker 02

  rheumatology, which looks at autoimmune diseases. And there is so much overlap with autoimmune and skin issues. And there were patients like with lupus who had all these skin issues and something called scleroderma, where your immune system attacks your collagen and like your skin gets super like taut and you can't even like move your limbs in severe cases. And I just had so much empathy for these patients. And I was like, maybe I am interested in derm. I also loved like other aspects of derm. I do appreciate looking good and all the fun cosmetic aspects, but I was really drawn to the medical aspect of derm. So I was like, well, shit, like, it's so competitive. Like, I'm already late to the game. Well, I barely got in by the skin of my teeth and very lucky. And so that's how I got into derm. But what's also really cool about derm is not only does it

• 28:37Speaker 02

  cover so much of medicine, like you could see adults and pediatric populations, it's surgical, it's cosmetic, it's like complex medical stuff, like infectious diseases. It also really can involve like an integrative or holistic approach. I think your skin can tell so much about what's going on internally. And I think that there's so much that you can do lifestyle-wise and just health-wise in general that will affect your skin. And so it was a perfect field for me. And I've been in private practice for 12 years now. I graduated med school, I don't know, like almost 20 years ago. And yeah, it's been a journey, but it's been amazing. And I do everything like the cosmetic, I do the injections, but I also do a lot of medical.

• 29:17Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. Yeah, I love that. And I think sometimes back to my twenties and I had so many more skin issues, like eczema here and there and stuff I couldn't get under control. And I was so much less healthy. I drank so much. I wasn't eating as well. Like, I don't have any of, I have one thing, this is like a totally different thing, we'll talk after, but I don't have any of those problems anymore at all. And you can age out, of course, of certain things, but it really was, when I really reflect, I just had so many things quote unquote, wrong with me. And it was just probably my health.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that plays a huge role. And you could also age out of things, too. But I think everyone has a skin issue or question at some point in their life.

• 29:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Totally. My gosh. You make so much content. It's really fantastic and digestible. And I think there's just so much noise out there. Oh, my gosh. Like, if you go on TikTok for 30 seconds, I mean, you're throwing so many products for your hair and your skin. And it's just like, I could buy 15 different things. I don't know if that's enough. And how much do I do? And it's really important to take advice from somebody like you with an actual medical degree.

• 30:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. So we want to do that today. We have so many questions for you. We're going to try to get through them all, but really condensing this down. It's even overwhelming for me and I feel like I know better. I am 43. I have a lot of information. I know it works for me. And I still am like, do I need that? Should I be getting that treatment?

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. Same. And I'm a dermatologist.

• 30:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes, right. Yeah. So let's start with the lifestyle, all the things happening in your life. I mean, everything from your nervous system, lifestyle, the way you live your life, your gut health. I mean, wherever you want to start, the connections between that and your exterior appearance.

• 30:50Speaker 02

  Well, when it comes to just overall skin health and also, you know, acne is really common. Hair loss is another popular topic. So these also apply to that as well. But nutrition really plays a big role. You talked about alcohol earlier. We do have studies to show that alcohol does accelerate aging. It just increases inflammation in the body, which then like has signals to like break down collagen faster. Yeah, it's just another stressor on the body, you know, on your liver and yeah, other organs. So that's one thing. But in terms of foods, sugar is another food group, unfortunately, that will play a huge aspect with all aspects of health. But we do know that it can break down collagen faster. And then also increased sugar

• 31:33Speaker 02

  and, you know, affects your metabolic health. So with that comes like insulin resistance, diabetes, and that increases more inflammation in the body. That also accelerates aging, too. And not everyone, but in some people, dairy can also affect skin health, more so in the realm of acne. It's been shown to make acne worse, not everyone. And the other thing that's problematic, too, is that today we have so much less fiber in our diet. And that plays a huge role with all skin issues, a lot with acne. Yeah, we just need to like, get rid of the buildup, you know,

• 32:13Speaker 02

  just let it all out. We just gotta poop more. So yeah, really incorporating more fruits and vegetables, like what our parents told us like a long time ago, like putting more antioxidants in our diet, putting more fiber in our diet.

• 32:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think there's been so much focus on protein, which is important, too. And I'm obsessed with the health. And I was listening to a podcast about the protein obsession. And the problem is that we've lost a lot of the fiber and the carbohydrates. Like, you really do need it all for a balanced diet.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. So yeah, people are like, what's the best diet? And yeah, it's, I don't think doing extreme things really are beneficial. The most studies that we do have is the Mediterranean diet, which is a very well-balanced diet, you know, with like your vegetables and like your healthy fats and protein. Yeah.

• 32:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Proteins, things like that, a lot of fried food. Yeah, my favorite.

• 33:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I think that healthy fats and things, just eggs, avocado, nuts, flaxseed, all those things like, I mean, I've done a ton of research and I've incorporated in my own life in terms of hair and, and skin. And so do you have even just superfoods that you recommend or you like to?

• 33:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Recommend to patients?

• 33:21Speaker 02

  I know, it's hard because there are so many great things, but I just say like, when it comes to like, fruits and veggies, like really try to incorporate the, the colors of the rainbow. Like we love red foods, like darkly pigmented foods, blueberries, blackberries, bell peppers, you know, um, things with a lot of vitamin C.

• 33:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Never put that on the map.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh, I know. It's like random that I just said bell peppers. There's so many like other.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  So funny.

• 33:49Rayna Greenberg?

  By like kale.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Things like that. Yeah, yeah. Like if it has a nice color to it and even like, you know, doesn't even have to have nice color.

• 33:56Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 02

  Like potatoes.

• 33:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 33:58Speaker 02

  So, yeah, but just really incorporating the whole spectrum of colors and really having more fiber.

• 34:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, okay. More fiber. Don't avoid stuff. Do you ever, I know you're a dermatologist, not a psychiatrist, but do you focus on like nervous system regulation?

• 34:12Speaker 02

  Yes. Okay. So yeah, nutrition is one topic. Stress is huge. And I feel like we've just accepted to be like part of our normal lives.

• 34:19Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  Um, and I think that's playing a huge role with accelerated aging, more acne, more hair loss. Like that's how I manifest hair loss with, is with stress. I was like, my scalp was showing when I was in residency. I was just like stressed out. I was not sleeping. Sleep is another thing too, but, but stress definitely increases, your cortisol increases other inflammatory signals that will accelerate aging and make you look older than you want to be. And so, yeah, we're seeing that more. And I think that it's weird. Like even though we have more technology that makes, it's supposed to make our lives easier. I find that it's like sometimes doing the opposite. Like we're just inundated with our phones and everything. So, um, I think that's playing a big role. And, um, with that also, I, I think our sleep is getting affected too. Like if you're on your, your screens late at night,

• 35:06Speaker 02

  when your circadian rhythm is off, we're seeing so many more studies too, like how that's increasing inflammatory issues. We see more psoriasis, more acne, more eczema. When people have poor sleep, accelerated aging, we have studies to show that. And yeah, we're just getting stressed out at the same time by our phones. So.

• 35:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I like the holistic approach though. It's like, of course you can prescribe all these different things and surgeries and X, Y, Z, but, like sleep well, eat a salad, try to reduce your stress, drink a little less.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  You've got to pick one, I, I, because you can't be stressed, not sleep, eat poorly, not stay hydrated. Like,

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you have a stressful job, that, that might just be what it is. You've got to get the sleep. You've got to figure out how to combat them all. Because you can't have them all. I just, you're going to fall apart. And so,

• 35:53Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 35:53Ashley Hesseltine?

  The sleep to me, I've used to not need as much sleep. I have a different face when I wake up and I didn't sleep well. Who is she? Like to the point where.

• 36:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Ashley just discovered a lot of sleep.

• 36:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, I just, all these things, but it's when I wake up and I had to get an early flight or whatever. I'm like, whose face is that? As opposed to waking up well rested. You're like, I swear I aged 10 years.

• 36:14Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Yep. Oh, and we have studies to like prove that it does that.

• 36:17Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah. Obviously alcohol. I mean, I have two drinks before bed. I wake up, I'm like, where'd her jawline go?

• 36:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, for sure. It can increase swelling.

• 36:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  On top of like, yeah, the, all the internal inflammation that we can't see.

• 36:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then just general about hormones. I mean, just aging and however much you want to kind of talk about how it affects these things as well.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  Yes. So hormones play a huge role with aging, with acne, with hair loss. And I think that the things that I mentioned, whether it's food, poor sleep, stress, those also affect our hormones too. And when your hormones are sort of out of whack, that's when things show up like acne or accelerated aging or hair loss. And with aging, our hormones naturally like decline. And then when you hit menopause, that's, that's like your estrogen really plummets unfortunately. And we really like estrogen for healthy skin. Estrogen increases hydration in the skin. It actually increases the thickness in your skin. It helps with increasing collagen in your skin. And, um, our estrogen does start to decline, you know, in our thirties,

• 37:21Speaker 02

  forties and then, yeah, it declines drastically in our, when we hit menopause. So that's what happens. And it's hard to avoid that. I think stress can make menopause maybe hit faster.

• 37:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  And there's all these like longevity protocols and things coming out now that can potentially delay menopause. So something to look into, but there's that aspect. And then there's also just these, I know it's, this is kind of a loaded topic, but like endocrine disrupting chemicals out there, like, all the microplastics that we're exposed to, just from like, I don't know, when I was like in residency, I would just order takeout and these, it'd be like a hot soup in this plastic container and I would eat that all the time and I would heat up food in like plastic.

• 38:07Rayna Greenberg?

  Better back then. I mean, you might have your doctor, but.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  No, I had no idea.

• 38:11Rayna Greenberg?

  I didn't know back then.

• 38:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, just a hot water bottle sitting in your car. You drink out of it.

• 38:14Rayna Greenberg?

  I never thought about it.

• 38:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like the water bottles get hot in the summer and then they get cool in the winter and you drink them.

• 38:20Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 38:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  They've baked all summer.

• 38:21Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  That was like.

• 38:23Rayna Greenberg?

  I realized that like a few years ago. I was like, oh, I also got a skincare routine a few years ago.

• 38:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, and we want to have a doctor on to talk about perimenopause and different things like that. But you don't have to answer this if you don't want to. But in terms of like, are you seeing people come to you that are doing hormone replacement therapy and seeing the benefits in their skin and hair?

• 38:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I mean, I figured as much. Yeah.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. So. Is very beneficial.

• 38:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  And that's like a different episode, but yeah.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  And there's also like topical estrogen too, which is a little bit of a controversial topic amongst derms. Because some people are concerned that you can have that systemic effect and that, you know, derms should not be recommending topical estrogen. It's, it's a mixed camp. I am on team topical estrogen. I do think that there are benefits from it. And I do think the absorption is very minimal. I, I do think we probably need some more studies before we like recommend it.

• 39:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  What is that? I'd never heard of this. Had you?

• 39:09Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, no.

• 39:11Speaker 02

  Actually, it's interesting when people go through perimenopause, one of the first prescriptions that they may get is vaginal estrogen cream. Just to help, because there is some systemic absorption, but some people were like using it on their face and noticing improvement. Like in the fine lines around their eyes, like, like crepey skin. And so now it's not a prescription that's made for the skin. But like, yeah, officially, but there are compounding pharmacies that are putting it in like a nice, like skin cream or what we call a vehicle that makes it more conducive to facial skin.

• 39:43Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, okay.

• 39:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I'm doing like tallow on my face.

• 39:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  What? Don't do that.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, not a big fan. Not a big fan. I think it's like an okay moisturizer. So like, if you're not getting issues from it, that's okay.

• 39:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  But there are better moisturizers out there.

• 40:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  I've used a ton. My skin is so dry.

• 40:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Especially here.

• 40:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I need something that I feel like I've still even feel it in the morning. I don't, you know, I've, I mean, I used Charlotte Tilbury's magic cream for years. I feel like that was one of the better ones. I'll use Woleta's Skin Food, which I feel like is a thick moisturizer.

• 40:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I just got served like an ad and I, it's this honey tallow. It feels good.

• 40:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  I don't care.

• 40:31Speaker 02

  Probably feels good. I mean, but there's like some other amazing moisturizers and then also like literal vaseline. Like if you are having really dry skin, using hydrating serums with a good moisturizer or even what we call slugging, which is a trend I will stand behind. Where you put like a layer of vaseline or aquafoam on your face if you are not acne prone.

• 40:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  I will, I will never get a pimple. I'm telling you, I can do that. So I will do it.

• 40:54Speaker 02

  And that's also one of my other beefs with beef tallow. Actually, um, it can be comedogenic, like meaning that it can clog your pores. So, um, yeah, yeah.

• 41:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  The thicker the better.

• 41:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, but yeah, I would look into like slugging and.

• 41:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, slugging. And that's aquafoam to the face.

• 41:11Speaker 02

  Aquafoam to the face. Like on top of like a hydrating serum, like a good.

• 41:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yep.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hyaluronic acid serum or something. Um, but yeah, and then like, just, yeah, my other issue with beef tallow is like, there are some where it can be kind of rancid, like if it's not properly preserved and stuff. So, so I would just be careful. And like I said, it's like an okay moisturizer. I'm not going to tell people to stop using it. They love it and they don't get any issues with it, but there are better things out there.

• 41:35Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. I mean, in this episode, we are going to go through like skincare.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Obviously like what you should do day to day, but can we start with hair? Cause we've never focused on this in the episode. And Ashley and I have really different hair journeys, but like for me, especially in high school and college, I had like such disordered eating issues. My hair just broke constantly. And on top of that, I've just straightened my hair my whole life. And it's thin like crazy as I've gotten older. And of course it makes you feel a certain way about yourself and made me feel less confident and I have hair extensions now. But like, I think so many women are just like, I don't know what to do here, you know?

• 42:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And my story is I had like great hair. People just thought I had extensions in for years. And of course I was aging a little bit, but when I got off the pill, it changed and my life changed for the better in every other way. So that was the only thing I really lost. And I did notice a difference and I've done a ton of research on this. The pill that I was on, it was probably the estrogen. I'm assuming. And it was a lot. It was a rapid loss. And like, I went to a dermatologist and diagnosed myself with telogen effluvium. And it stopped shedding to such an extreme, but it never really got back to like the place it used to be.

• 42:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  But I feel really good and I actually feel like it's growing fine. I actually don't want even like to use growth serums. Because I don't like the shedding phase. I really don't want to be on an oxidol or any sort of growth serum. It just breaks. So like breakage is more of my issue. Like I can feel it. It's, it's coming out of every follicle, but I'm having trouble with breakage. So anyway.

• 43:08Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, your hair has been growing. Mine doesn't grow like at all.

• 43:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh yeah. It's, it's growing and I can see new growth, but especially around my face, the breakage is like my main issue now.

• 43:19Rayna Greenberg?

  So maybe we can talk to you about thinning hair, breakage, and like you have such a great, I want to like direct people to your Instagram also. You have five, I think five different posts recently.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Recently, I did a whole series.

• 43:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes, about what to do, but let's talk about supplements, oils, lifestyle, everything.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Scalp care. I feel like I'm huge on that. I never conditioned my scalp for years.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Scalp care is huge.

• 43:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  I was like taught not to like shampoo the.

• 43:40Rayna Greenberg?

  Top condition the ends.

• 43:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, which is still mostly the case. Some conditioners aren't actually made for the scalp.

• 43:45Rayna Greenberg?

  But I do need to like condition my hair like up here.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, man. So hair loss is a huge topic and there are so many different factors that are playing a role.

• 43:55Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  You know, as we get older, yes, like we mentioned, like the hormones can steadily decline and hormones play a role with hair loss too. When there is like an imbalance with the ratio between your estrogen and your androgens, which include testosterone, that can accelerate hair loss. And birth control, so many women are or have been on birth control. And I do think that that plays a big role with hair too. Any kind of hormonal shifts can cause hair loss. And not saying that you shouldn't be on birth control, but it is like almost like a form of hormone replacement. It's it's literal hormones. So when like people who go on or off birth control, either one will see hair loss because your body has just different signaling. It's trying to like deal with these hormonal shifts, any kind of hormonal shift, like postpartum, we see massive shedding.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Cause we have a huge plummet in hormones when we give birth. And you mentioned telogative flupium, which is shedding that we see and it's about three to five months after some kind of stressor or like triggering event. So giving birth is a huge stressor to the body if whether you deal with pain or if you have surgery. And so that also contributes to the postpartum hair loss, but having an illness. So we saw a ton of hair loss during the height of COVID. But like anyone who's really, really ill, or if you are stressed, if you have a death in the family, you go through a really bad breakup. It sends a stress signal to your hair follicles like, hey, we're gonna like reallocate our resources to areas that need it more. Because like the stress is like depleting our body. So let's just take away some of the resources to your hair follicles and like go elsewhere.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  So then the hair follicles go into what's called the resting phase and that lasts about three to five months. That's why it takes about three to five months after that stressful event to notice the shedding.

• 45:38Rayna Greenberg?

  It's so crazy and it was like exactly the timing of how this all happened.

• 45:41Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, yeah. And you can have what's called chronic telogen effluvium where the hair loss doesn't stop. If there are other underlying factors at play, whether you're genetically predisposed, like if you have a strong family history of hair loss. My dad was bald at nineteen, so like that is how I manifest stresses with hair loss. So having telogen effluvium can unmask underlying androgenetic alopecia. If you are deficient in certain nutrients, low iron, low vitamin D, sometimes zinc, sometimes low B12. Those can perpetuate that hair loss and like brittleness. And I think thyroid issues are very common amongst women. I will always test for thyroid.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Like along with iron and vitamin D. Also medications play a huge role and then so birth control. But another big one we're seeing is the GLP one.

• 46:29Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, yeah. My hairdresser said that she just clients are just losing their hair like crazy. But also diet, like if you're not eating.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 46:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Nutrients.

• 46:38Speaker 02

  For sure, like protein's huge when it comes to hair and when you have like this huge drastic drop in calorie intake, that can affect hair. But we're also seeing that the medication itself is like hair loss inducing. So people who like are even on a low dose or like aren't having that drastic weight loss that people used to have like a couple of years ago, whenever it first came out. Even without the drastic weight loss, people who are still on it or who have plateaued will still experience hair loss from that. So that's just another thing to think about.

• 47:05Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, okay.

• 47:06Speaker 02

  Yeah. And just like scalp care too. So like if you are not washing your hair regularly, because this is what I see a lot. People are noticing hair shedding and it like freaks them out. So they don't wash their hair in the shower. And then they'll, they'll go like a week without washing their hair. And then when they wash their hair, they see clumps of hair coming out because they hadn't washed their hair. And like that would have like come out in stages. But it comes out in clumps and that will accelerate hair loss because when you're not washing your hair as often, the oil builds up. And that actually can cause inflammation on the scalp. We all have like a microbiome on our scalp, a lot of yeast like still live on our scalp. And that feeds on that oil. And then the byproduct of that yeast is scaling, which shows up as dandruff or sometimes itching.

• 47:48Speaker 02

  And so that's why when you see more dandruff, when you don't wash your hair as often, and not everyone, like if you're more dry skin prone, you may not see that as much. But that's one of the biggest things I see in women when they notice hair loss, they wash their hair less often and you should be doing the opposite.

• 48:01Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm so glad you said that because like I, it stressed me out so much to lose all that hair in the shower and I thought I'll just wash it less. And it was like coming out, I mean, it would just be all over. I would like, when you feel it like drip down your body. No, it's like, yeah, I would call rain on like crying when I was going through this like two, three month period of like how much I was losing in the shower. But I luckily was like, the answer is not to go a week because of your scalp health. So it's just tough. I mean, I want to validate it. So in terms of washing it, how often do you recommend it? And I have a friend that's like, she double cleanses, she'll wash it twice and then do a conditioner like, I guess now also everybody is different, but like what do you recommend?

• 48:39Speaker 02

  Yes, I know. It's tough. Everyone's different. I would say on average, two to three times a week if you can. Some people need to wash their hair every day. If you have more like quailier textured hair, I would say once a week is fine.

• 48:50Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  But yeah.

• 48:51Rayna Greenberg?

  Is there shampoos and conditioners you like for different things?

• 48:54Speaker 02

  Yeah. In terms of hair loss, it's so funny. People are like, what shampoo should I use for hair loss? Because they think that shampoo is what's going to help their hair loss. When really it's going to be topical treatments, topical growth serums and oral medicines that are going to be better for your hair loss, not a magical shampoo. However, if you were to use a shampoo for hair loss, I am a really big fan of shampoos that treat dandruff, even if you don't have dandruff. So one of my favorite ones over the counter is Nizoral shampoo, which is an anti yeast shampoo. It has ketoconazole.

• 49:24Rayna Greenberg?

  You just get on Amazon, it's a blue.

• 49:29Speaker 02

  But not only because it's like anti inflammatory and like anti yeast, so you don't have that inflammation. But also interestingly, it can work on like hormone receptors on the scalp because that can help with hair growth. So we like it for that.

• 49:42Rayna Greenberg?

  And then like, but not every shampoo, right?

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Not every shampoo.

• 49:45Rayna Greenberg?

  Do that every three or four shampoos?

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Well, you could still probably get away with doing it two or three times a week. But it depends on if you have dry scalp, then maybe once a week is fine. What I tell people is just to like massage it in your scalp. Like don't wash your hair with it because it can make your hair like straw. Just wash your scalp with it and then use your normal shampoo and conditioner. You know, so and then leave it in your scalp for a few minutes before rinsing it out. I'm also a fan of like zinc based anti dandruff shampoos, like Serabee makes a nice one, Head and Shoulders, you know, like zinc has also been shown to help with hair growth. Caffeine in shampoos, it's not in Nizoral or the anti dandruff shampoos, but caffeine's another ingredient that I like in shampoos or in like topical serums. In terms of what works the best though, it's like the prescriptions as well as like topical minoxidil for hair growth.

• 50:32Speaker 02

  So non minoxidil OTC products I like, because minoxidil I think works the best, but it's just so annoying because you do have that shedding phase.

• 50:39Rayna Greenberg?

  And you take it for life, right?

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, if you, if you stop it, you're not going to be worse off. You're just going to be back to square one.

• 50:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Going to lose the hair you grew on it for the most part.

• 50:49Speaker 02

  If you stop it.

• 50:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Stop it.

• 50:50Speaker 02

  Probably.

• 50:51Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, it feels like a lifetime commitment, but so is brushing your teeth. I don't know. I see people talk about this where they're like, like Tinks is like, I'm on this for the rest of my life. Well, I'm on blood pressure medication for the rest of my life. I take a pill every day.

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, unless the underlying issue for your hair loss is addressed, like unless like your iron deficiency is corrected or your thyroid's corrected or your stress is corrected, you know? But yeah, unfortunately, it's one of those things that you're just on chronically until or unless, until the point you stop caring.

• 51:19Rayna Greenberg?

  But I want to address that shedding phase because again, like it took me a while to kind of realize like growth is not my issue. Like I'm seeing the growth. I don't have any patches or anything like that. So I started growth serum and I shedded so much hair. And that sounds really scary to a lot of people, but it can be worth it if you really should be like, again, I just, I think Tinks is one of the influencers. I feel like that talks about minoxidil the most and it is worth it to get through it to the other side. But that wasn't my issue was more breakage based in hair health. So they work, but they're pushing out the, is it essentially just pushing out the hair so you can grow new hair?

• 51:56Speaker 02

  It's trying to put everything in the same growth phase. So like some of the older hair has to grow up first and it takes like six to nine months for it to work. Some people, like some people maybe three months, but that's so discouraging. People are like, what? I want my hair now. So that's the thing, hair growth is such a slow process.

• 52:10Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  But that does work. In terms of other products over the counter that I like. So I mentioned caffeine is a good ingredient. There's a lot of like peptides that can also signal for hair health. Like, so if you have breakage too, in addition to hair growth that I think are good, like the Ordinary makes a super affordable one. I can't even remember. It's like their hair density peptide serum or it's something along those lines, but it has caffeine, has amazing peptides. So I really do like that one. Obagi has a really good one, their Nusil Hair Growth Scalp Serum. That one's really good for scalp health, which will also help with like brittle hair, hair like density, like the thickness of the hair strands. Love that one. And one of my colleagues, she's a derm, Dr. Joyce Park, she started a haircare line called Carative.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  And she has this growth serum that's wonderful. That also has wonderful peptides and other antioxidants. So definitely a fan of those.

• 53:02Rayna Greenberg?

  Do you feel anything about rosemary oils? I feel like I get.

• 53:05Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:06Rayna Greenberg?

  Constantly.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh.

• 53:07Rayna Greenberg?

  And hair oiling in general, that's the whole thing.

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 53:10Rayna Greenberg?

  And I, I want to clarify between growth serums because they're completely different. Like we're just asking about the oils that you just are getting on Amazon that oil your scalp. One of our friends swears by Berber Hair Oil. She's like, it changed my whole life.

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Honestly, I do like that one.

• 53:22Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, she loves it. It's like changed her life. Rosemary oil is interesting because it smells. So like, I don't know if I could like commit to that. Okay. I do want to ask you about this. Hair oil, Berber Hair Oil is not a growth serum, right? It's just more of like moisturizing the scalp. Is that the point?

• 53:35Speaker 02

  Yes, I think that's more like that. I know. So hair oiling.

• 53:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I want to.

• 53:40Speaker 02

  And then we can talk about rosemary oil too as part of that because there's so many different oils. There's like rosemary oil, there's pumpkin seed oil.

• 53:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 53:47Speaker 02

  There's like peppermint oil, there's like argon oil. So there's some that can potentially stimulate your scalp to promote hair growth. And there are some that are actually just nourishing to the hair strands. So it's, it can be confusing for people. I think hair oiling can mean a lot of different things.

• 54:01Rayna Greenberg?

  Yes.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  When it comes to rosemary oil specifically, I think that it can help with hair growth. It's not the most amazing thing for hair growth. So I don't want people to think, oh, I need to reach for rosemary oil before like minoxidil. But I think it's a great supportive ingredient. Like if it's in your shampoo or if it's one of the many ingredients in a hair growth serum, wonderful. But I wouldn't like go run for rosemary oil itself unless you're like already doing all the other things.

• 54:27Rayna Greenberg?

  To your point though, it does take a long time. Nutraful has been a long time partner of ours and you know, we always say six to nine months. It does take a long time.

• 54:34Speaker 02

  A long time, but I do like nourishing hair oils if you are dealing with breakage, if you're dealing with.

• 54:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Let's talk about that.

• 54:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 54:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Like just the.

• 54:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Process. I mean, you want to do it before you shampoo and like

• 54:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For most of them, because like otherwise you'll just like be a greasy hot mess. There are some where you can do post like wash, but yeah, most of them you you want to do. If you could leave it in your hair longer, like overnight, that would be more ideal.

• 54:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  But that can be messy, but you have to maybe wear like a bonnet or like a shower cap or something, which also can be annoying, but.

• 55:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  So like a nourishing oil that you leave on overnight like helps with overall. Is that going to help with your scalp care, your breakage, all of it?

• 55:14Speaker 02

  So it depends on the oil because there's some oils that are nourishing to the scalp. And there's some that you just want to put in the hair itself. So you just have to look at the oil. I like the Berber hair oil that that's like a nice scalp nourishing.

• 55:24Rayna Greenberg?

  Changed our friend's entire hair. I mean, it's crazy. I can't believe what it's done for her. Yeah.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  I switched to silk pillowcases and it was a game changer.

• 55:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  I feel like I was waking up and my hair looked so frizzy and I feel like I was having breakage happen in my sleep. And I think that's been huge.

• 55:39Speaker 02

  I'm a fan of silk pillowcases and silk bonnets.

• 55:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Okay.

• 55:42Speaker 02

  And I know we're talking about all this. I think oral prescription meds work the best.

• 55:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  Like oral sporinolactone for premenopausal women, oral finasteride or dutasteride for men or postmenopausal women. And then oral minoxidil.

• 55:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, I was just going to ask you because I think like people think minoxidil is topical and now, I mean, you can get it on like hers, like they it's easy to take.

• 56:04Rayna Greenberg?

  It's pure. It's pure. Like it's it's Rogaine, right? Like minoxidil is the main ingredient.

• 56:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. Well, it originally came out as a pill back in the seventies for blood pressure. And like they were noticing people were like getting hair growth. They were their hair was growing, but they were also getting like hair everywhere, like a Chia Pet, but like facial hair.

• 56:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 56:19Speaker 02

  And so the founders of Rogaine were like, let's take advantage of the side effect. And that's when they make the topical version. Anyways, so the the low dose pill is now being used more often, so more so in the last like five years or so. And it does work. About 15 to 20% of people can get facial hair. So that's like the main downside of it. There are a few potential other side effects, but it does work and I will prescribe that. People want to be aggressive. I will do that either with sporinolactone or with like finasteride.

• 56:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  What is the first one you said for women?

• 56:47Speaker 02

  Sporinolactone, which is what's used most commonly for hormonal acne for adult female acne.

• 56:52Rayna Greenberg?

  You get a little tinkle for your face. You take that hair off. That's good.

• 56:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. Honestly, it's easier to get rid of hair than it is to grow hair.

• 56:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, exactly. And people get all triggered up, but minoxidil is toxic to cats, if you guys.

• 57:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and dogs.

• 57:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  And dogs too.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  The topical.

• 57:05Rayna Greenberg?

  What if they like lick your face?

• 57:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's it's really fascinating. You spill the bottle. Yeah. So if you see comment sections on minoxidil, it's toxic to cats and dogs. And so people get all triggered up. So just.

• 57:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Ah.

• 57:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, if you have cats and dogs, I would do the oral.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do the oral.

• 57:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think you hear a lot of people say, and Raina said this before too, like my hair just doesn't grow anymore. Like I have another really close friend that just, she never had really long, thick hair, but it doesn't grow anymore. And I'm not, I don't want to speak for you, but I feel like you have like said that it doesn't grow like it used to and like.

• 57:35Rayna Greenberg?

  It just does. It's never has. And I mean, it was definitely like disordered eating related when I was younger, but now that I'm an adult and I eat like a normal amount, it's just, it just doesn't grow.

• 57:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And is that, I mean, I guess it can be a number of reasons. You'd have to do a deep dive into that person's.

• 57:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 57:49Ashley Hesseltine?

  Lifestyle, but like someone like that, it's probably a minoxidil would be their best bet, along with all the other things that you can change.

• 57:57Speaker 02

  You want to do what's called extend the growth phase of your hair cycle. There's different cycles, like the resting growth shedding. So you want to extend the antigen phase, which is a hair growth phase. And people whose hair doesn't grow that long, they have a shorter antigen phase. Like when you see like those like women with hair down to their feet, I'm like, okay, how's that possible? They have really long antigen phases. So minoxidil is one of the ways to prolong that antigen phase. But also it can be related to like brittle hair, like hair care practices. Like if you're using heating tools extensively and not protecting your hair. You know, whenever somebody comes in, I always look at your blood panel, your iron levels, your vitamin D, like and the other ones I mentioned. So making sure all that's in check, making sure your thyroid is in check. But yeah, but topical or oral minoxidil.

• 58:39Rayna Greenberg?

  And when you turn 40, I mean, I got a full blood panel of everything. I checked my thyroid. I checked everything to just kind of see like what I needed hormonally. And I really recommend that people do that. It was scary. Um, I went to a gynecologist. She just was like, now that you're 40, now that you're 40. But like, I was so glad I did because we were able to like really address certain things.

• 58:57Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 58:57Rayna Greenberg?

  And my mom has issues with her thyroid. So to like anticipate that was really important to me.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 59:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. And that's the, I forget the word is like, it won't grow past a certain length to your point.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:07Ashley Hesseltine?

  You know, like, yeah, like this is the length it won't grow past. And I'm glad you described the antigen phase, but also the hot tools. Like if you are blow drying your hair at a high heat and you're not protecting it and then you're styling it with, like when I was touring, I noticed swimmer breakage because I was curling my hair with a curling iron every time I went on stage. Like those things matter as much as you can like take breaks.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  If you can take breaks, yeah.

• 59:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  And then doing things to stimulate your scalp. I'm a fan of red light as well, those red light.

• 59:31Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I restore helmets that are expensive, but they've been a partner of the show.

• 59:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:35Rayna Greenberg?

  And yeah, red light on your scalp.

• 59:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  You recommend, I mean, it works?

• 59:38Speaker 02

  I do. Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of those things where it shouldn't be your go to. Like the other things we talked about, I think it'd be more effective, but it's definitely supportive and we have good evidence to support it.

• 59:47Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. All right.

• 59:49Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay, we're just going to take a quick break and we are going to get right back into it. Let's talk about Rocket Money. So if you guys have just spent all summer, obviously seeing everybody taking these trips or buying all these clothing. I think summer really is just kind of like in your face in terms of like how much everybody's doing all the time. And if you're just thinking like, I want to get my spending under control and figure out what I can spend and what I can cancel. Rocket Money is the tool that Ashley and I recommend. It is a personal finance app. It's going to help you find and cancel unwanted subscriptions. I mean, when I got in there, I could not believe how much stuff I was paying for that I didn't even realize I had signed up for. So they can cancel the unwanted ones. They can do all kinds of stuff for your finances though. They can set up automatic transaction categorizations for accounts. They have customizable categories and tags.

• 1:00:31Rayna Greenberg?

  So if you're just like, I want to figure out how to set a budget, what the goals are, how to personalize all these insights and get reports, they're going to do all that for you. They're just fantastic. People are always like, what's one thing I can do for my finances? This is it. The app consolidates checking savings, loans and investments into a simple dashboard. It is so easy to use. So Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at rocketmoney.com/gge. That's rocketmoney.com/gge. Rocketmoney.com/gge.

• 1:01:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And Revolve, this is where we get all of our clothes.

• 1:01:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  You can get anything you need on Revolve. It is so fun and easy to shop on their site. They have all these different collections. If you're looking for a wedding guest dress or, you know, wedding dress, then you can get that too. And vacation stuff, stuff for work, stuff for going out, last minute plans, great two day shipping. So you can get stuff to you really quick. But we're just obsessed with all of it. I mean, it's really all that we wear. I had just posted this outfit recently and everybody was in the comments and my DMs asking for the link. It was just like kind of lace top camisole and it's La Academy, which is one of their signature brands. It's really great. I was really into lace tanks this summer, so I have this Cosabella makes this really great crop cami.

• 1:01:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  I got it in black and white this summer from Revolve and they just have all different kinds of brands. I mean, I think the white hat I wear a lot, that's Anina Bing. I got that on Revolve. I got my Anina Bing denim jacket on Revolve. I got the polka dot outfit that I wore in France for Revolve. Everything is everything that we wear, everything that we do. So.

• 1:02:12Rayna Greenberg?

  I know.

• 1:02:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  You guys can check it out. Great for everything. Day nights, vacations, of course. And it can be really hard to shop for dresses to wear to people's weddings and they really have that on lock. Uh, Loretta's wedding, the hot pink, I was just obsessed with and so excited to wear that too. And again, we just love their customer service. Second to none. Truly, the shipping is amazing. Yeah. So whether it is a big night out, a wedding, a summer trip, or you just need something last minute that actually works, Revolve always has it. Go to revolve.com/gge to shop our faves and use code GGE for 15% off your first order. Fast shipping, easy returns. It just makes everything easier. That's revolve.com/gge. You can shop our faves and get 15% off your first order. Offer ends August 31st.

• 1:02:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  So don't miss out. Again, you guys are going to have to use the code and get your purchase in before August 31st. Revolve.com/gge.

• 1:03:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. And finally, if you guys are trying to get your supplements, do something good for your body, but you're just like, I have so many things. I don't even know what to buy. My cabinet is full of stuff. I'm just taking a whole bunch of stuff all the time. IMAID is a perfect solution for it. So IMAID will simplify your supplement routine. Once and for all, it's 16 supplements will place 90% ingredients across nine major organ systems in one drink. So I mean, again, the problem with supplements, your cabinet is just full of tons of stuff. So IMAID's daily ultimate essentials has 16 supplements in one drink for $2.61 a day. So really affordable. 95% of people who tried it for 12 weeks felt more energy and it, and it's so easy to just incorporate into your daily routine.

• 1:03:48Rayna Greenberg?

  I mean, I can do one thing every day. Doing a bunch of things every day. I don't know. We're getting a little dicey, but I can do one thing. And this is the thing you should do for your body. Go to imadehealth.com/gge right now or click on the link in the description and use code GGE for a free welcome kit. Five free travel sachets plus 10% off your order. That's code GGE at imadehealth.com/gge. Code GGE at imadehealth.com/gge. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Well, I recommend people go to your social media, the whole series about hair, but let's move on to skincare. Cause Ashley and I feel like there's just so much information out there and like so many people are like, use this 12 step skincare program.

• 1:04:33Rayna Greenberg?

  And I think, you know, before we get into recommendations, it's like, what do people actually need? And what do they need in their twenties, thirties, forties? You know, that probably changes whether you have children or not. But what do you say to people? Like what do we need to focus on?

• 1:04:45Speaker 02

  Yeah. So just foundationally for anyone, even for the tweens out there, is a good cleanser, a moisturizer and sunscreen. If you're not doing those three things, then like, don't even think about the other products because those are the foundational steps.

• 1:05:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  Some people hate sunscreen. Sunscreen is so important for multiple reasons, but if you're going to invest in your skincare, it's kind of pointless if you're not going to be using sunscreen. It's like one step forward, one step back. So you want to definitely incorporate sunscreen and then like washing your face. It seems like such an obvious step, but it is kind of an underrated step. Throughout the day, we're building up oil, debris, dirt, makeup, all that. We want to wash it off because those are stressors on our skin cells and will accelerate aging. So yeah, doing all those things. But then, once you're in your twenties, I do recommend definitely incorporating a retinoid into your routine. So retinoids are the kind of umbrella term for those vitamin A. Topical products that include over the counter, which is retinol and retinal, or retinal to hide.

• 1:05:43Speaker 02

  And then prescription wise, we have tretinoin, which is also known as retin A. There's a stronger one called tazirac or taziratine. And we have the most evidence when it comes to like anti aging, like decreasing fine lines and wrinkles, evening out your skin tone, skin texture with tretinoin. Like we have so many studies. Cause it helps remodel your collagen. That's how it helps minimize fine lines and wrinkles. It increases your skin cell turnover. That's how it helps with acne by like unclogging your pores. It evens out your skin tone. So we like tretinoin or retinol. Um, so incorporating that, I would say your twenties is a good time to start that.

• 1:06:18Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:06:18Speaker 02

  And then I would say, starting in your mid to late twenties to your thirties, definitely incorporating some kind of antioxidant serum in the morning. The most studied one is vitamin C.

• 1:06:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. That was my question. Vitamin C. And you think start with retinol first, then vitamin C.

• 1:06:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:06:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  And retinol at night.

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  Retinol at night.

• 1:06:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  A few times a week. Do you build up to every night? Do you recommend?

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. The goal is to get to five to seven nights a week. Um, some people may only be able to do two to three nights a week, but find one that where you can get up to five to seven nights per week.

• 1:06:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  What do you recommend percentage wise of the retinol?

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  I know some products don't even label the percentage.

• 1:06:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:06:54Speaker 02

  Oh, and also if it's encapsulated retinol, you can potentially tolerate a higher percentage.

• 1:06:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  You mean orally?

• 1:07:00Speaker 02

  Topically, like it's encapsulated. So it doesn't all get released on the skin and cause irritation.

• 1:07:04Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  It's like a delayed release, but you know, there's like point oh five to point one percent.

• 1:07:12Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we have a point one, like my, the point one.

• 1:07:15Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, I use the higher one.

• 1:07:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's something with a big Z on it.

• 1:07:19Speaker 02

  Oh, Z O.

• 1:07:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's a great one.

• 1:07:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Dr. Barrett has Obashi and Z O. Yeah. So point one, like four times a week, probably.

• 1:07:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, you do that much?

• 1:07:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  I mean.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you can tolerate it, then yeah.

• 1:07:31Rayna Greenberg?

  I had to stop putting it on my skin. Um, at the beginning of the summer, I had just, I was moving and I was also in the sun a lot. And I just like, didn't think about the stress in the sun. And all of a sudden my skin was so irritated, bright red and shedding like crazy. Hmm. And our friend, um, her name is Brenna. She's married to Andrew Collin, who's been on the show very much. She was like, get off the retinol for a few weeks and see if that helped. And now I can go back to it. But I had to, I had to pause it because it was really.

• 1:07:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  But the retinol makes you more sensitive to sun.

• 1:07:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, especially if you're starting out with it. But if you're going through stress, if you're changing climates, if you're in a different environment, that can affect your skin barrier too. And then that will make you more susceptible to irritation and all that, even if you were using the retinol for prolonged periods of time.

• 1:08:11Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, let's talk about skin barrier because she said like, you're really, you're like, I was on, my skin was on fire.

• 1:08:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:08:16Rayna Greenberg?

  Moving from like LA to New York, summertime, all this. So let's talk about your skin barrier.

• 1:08:21Speaker 02

  Yeah. Making sure that you're preserving your skin barrier is important. That's, that comes with the foundational skincare routine, like using a moisturizer. Everyone benefits from a moisturizer, even people with oily skin, uh, just because we are affected by the elements that we're surrounded by. So definitely using a moisturizer when you're starting off, if, if you're noticing like the redness or irritation, definitely cut back on any actives that you're using. So actives will include things like retinoids, vitamin C, any exfoliating products too, which that would be the next thing I would incorporate in your routine.

• 1:08:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. I want to ask you about exfoliating.

• 1:08:50Speaker 02

  But, but put a pause on all that for a minimum of a week. I mean, or two weeks and just use a moisturizer, a gentle cleanser. And, uh, sunscreen, of course, but it happens like stress can do it. Lack of sleep makes you lose more water in your skin. Change in climates. Yeah. If you're going to be out in the sun, that can affect your skin barriers. Yeah.

• 1:09:09Ashley Hesseltine?

  So at night we're cleansing, obviously, how often to exfoliate? Do you like an oil cleanser? Like how, what are your feelings on cleansers?

• 1:09:17Speaker 02

  So cleansers, I am a really big fan of double cleansing. So using an oil based cleanser first, whether it's a literal liquid oil or a balm, one of those, and then following that with like a regular cream or gel cleanser, depending on your skin type, gel cleansers. If you have like more combo or oily skin, although there are some hydrating gel cleansers too. So I don't know if I should even say that. But cream cleansers are more so made for like people with dry skin. Then I would follow that with a retinoid and then a moisturizer. Now in terms of exfoliating, there's so many different types of exfoliating products out there. There is exfoliating cleansers. There's exfoliating serums or toners, and they can range in such a wide spectrum in terms of strength, like super gentle exfoliants.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  And there's also different types of exfoliants like glycolic acid, which are the alpha hydroxy acids, like glycolic acid, lactic acid, mandelic acid, there's beta hydroxy acid, which is salicylic acid. There's polyhydroxy acids, which are super hydrating gentle exfoliants. So it depends on what you're using. Like you could potentially use a polyhydroxy acid exfoliating serum every day with a retinoid. But like a 10% or higher glycolic acid, you probably want to use that a couple of times a week, not the same night as a retinoid, um, for most people.

• 1:10:27Ashley Hesseltine?

  So alternate those.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  So alternate those. Like if you're using a stronger exfoliating glycolic acid serum, ideally not the same night as your retinoid. Some people may be able to tolerate it. I hate saying you can use it on the same night because.

• 1:10:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  You may as well just not.

• 1:10:40Speaker 02

  Just don't.

• 1:10:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just, I mean, like do your exfoliant the two nights and then do the six nights. I mean, we grew up on St. Ives.

• 1:10:46Speaker 02

  I know, right?

• 1:10:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:49Rayna Greenberg?

  The way we just fuck it.

• 1:10:50Ashley Hesseltine?

  On your face?

• 1:10:51Speaker 02

  Sandpaper. Oh my gosh. I put like sea breeze.

• 1:10:53Rayna Greenberg?

  Oh, I've, I've.

• 1:10:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  No, St. Ives made it.

• 1:10:55Speaker 02

  They made it for your face.

• 1:10:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Scrub for the face.

• 1:10:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Like.

• 1:10:58Rayna Greenberg?

  Are there, um, are there face washes that you like a lot? Are there brands that you really like?

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, and when it comes to splurging versus saving money on skincare, you do not need to splurge on cleansers, moisturizers or sunscreen. So cleansers, I love like Servey cleanser, Cetaphil, La Roche Posay, they make wonderful gentle cleansers. Vanny cream, which is like such an unsexy skincare brand.

• 1:11:19Rayna Greenberg?

  I like that you're saying.

• 1:11:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  You brought up budget because I think some people are like, can I do the drugstore brands?

• 1:11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:11:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Some stuff is just too expensive.

• 1:11:27Speaker 02

  Some stuff is so annoyingly expensive. I mean, yeah, if you have the budget, sure, it's fun, but you don't have to splurge on those. When it comes to vitamin C, maybe you might want to have fun with that one.

• 1:11:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Um, I do have a lot of, a lot of, a lot of spending fun with that one.

• 1:11:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:42Rayna Greenberg?

  I only wash at night. Do you say like wash your face at night and the morning?

• 1:11:45Ashley Hesseltine?

  I want to know too, because I don't wash.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. I would say if you can wash your face at night at a minimum, fine. That's great. Many people don't need a face wash in the morning too. I think it still helps to cleanse with water.

• 1:11:57Rayna Greenberg?

  I do water.

• 1:11:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. If you're wearing like a lot of heavy product overnight, it does help to make sure that it's off. Um, if you're like acne prone or something, or if you're prone to more oily skin, then yeah, using a cleanser in the morning is fine. But yeah.

• 1:12:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  Just at night at least.

• 1:12:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  So while we're here on sunscreen, wake up if you wash or you don't, whatever you do. Are you recommending to put that right on your bare skin? And then our other question is makeup too. Most makeup has an SPF thirty, thirty five. I mean, just tell, walk us through your feelings on sunscreen.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can. If that's the only step in your morning routine, you, you can totally put it on bare skin. I recommend using an antioxidant, like a vitamin C serum first.

• 1:12:37Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:12:38Speaker 02

  And then if you have dry skin, like putting on a moisturizer or some kind of hydrating serum and then your sunscreen, a lot of sunscreens can be moisturizing too. So you could do like a combo moisturizing sunscreen and then your makeup goes on after that. I am not a fan of relying on SPF in your makeup because you have to put like a shit ton on for it to work.

• 1:12:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  I see. Okay.

• 1:12:57Speaker 02

  And it's, you just look so cakey. So, um, and people don't put on enough. So I would definitely put on a regular sunscreen before your makeup.

• 1:13:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. So I think people get really overwhelmed with the layering of it all and.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  For sure.

• 1:13:11Ashley Hesseltine?

  All of that, but at nighttime, you're cleanse.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Retinoid moisturizer.

• 1:13:15Ashley Hesseltine?

  Moisturizer, morning cleanser not, but you do your vitamin C serum, then your sunscreen.

• 1:13:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Then maybe moisturizer or not, depending on your sunscreen.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then.

• 1:13:25Speaker 02

  Moisturizer before the sunscreen. Yeah.

• 1:13:26Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think that's really.

• 1:13:27Rayna Greenberg?

  Hold on, moisturizer before this?

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. Sunscreen's your last step in your skincare.

• 1:13:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  And then makeup. Yeah.

• 1:13:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  If you're doing it all, vitamin C, moisturizer, sunscreen.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:37Rayna Greenberg?

  In the morning.

• 1:13:37Speaker 02

  In the morning.

• 1:13:38Rayna Greenberg?

  Cause I mean, I just developed a skincare routine a couple of years ago.

• 1:13:41Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 1:13:41Rayna Greenberg?

  I was just water only. Um, and that's served me really well, but now I'm getting older and I want to preserve my skin.

• 1:13:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:47Rayna Greenberg?

  But that was the most intimidating thing for me was how many fucking products do I need and which at night, which in the morning?

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  I know.

• 1:13:53Rayna Greenberg?

  And how much of each thing? So I'm glad that you went through like the order.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  Yes. So that's the foundational. I mean, there's so many other fun things out there. There's like growth factors, peptides, like PD RN, exosomes. But I would start with like making sure you have a good vitamin C and a good retinoid.

• 1:14:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And that is where to splurge.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  I would say, yeah, yeah, for sure. Like vitamin C. Yeah. There's some great like drugstore vitamin Cs and retinoids. Like, you know, Vishi is one of my favorite drugstore vitamin Cs. Same with like Servey. And then retinoids like ROC, R O C. They make a good retinoid, Olay actually, Neutrogena. They make some nice retinoid Servey.

• 1:14:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:14:30Speaker 02

  So yeah, but there are some very nice ones that are more expensive.

• 1:14:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, what brands do you like for that?

• 1:14:35Speaker 02

  Vitamin C. I am a fan of the SkinCeuticals.

• 1:14:37Rayna Greenberg?

  Every day.

• 1:14:38Speaker 02

  I know. What the hell?

• 1:14:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  SkinCeuticals is great. Yeah.

• 1:14:40Speaker 02

  It is. They, they just came out with a new formulation this year because like their patent ran out last year, but I feel like nobody is able to do one, even with like the similar ingredients, like I haven't found a match. It's annoyingly expensive, but like I've, I've treated patients for 16 years and I've just seen patients' skin transform with Cepharulic. But there's some other great ones too, like Skin Better Science has a wonderful one, Revision Skincare has their wonderful one, the C plus correcting complex.

• 1:15:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:15:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's some great ones.

• 1:15:08Rayna Greenberg?

  Is there stuff when you like, look at the bottle? So for example, there's this one brand I get served a lot on TikTok. I'm not going to throw them under the bus. But I sent it to a girlfriend of mine. I was like, how is this possible? This is so inexpensive and it's claiming to be so great. And she was like, well, you need to look at the percentages of what's in it. And so is there things you would say like, read this on the bottle? And this is how you know what's worth the money?

• 1:15:31Speaker 02

  I know it's tough. When it comes to vitamin C, I do like, yeah, around 10 to 15% L-ascorbic acid. There's some great vitamin Cs that don't use L-ascorbic acid. Another one is THD-ascorbate, which I like 15 to 20%. And a lot of brands may not even disclose that and still be fine. I, I think that you want to go with a brand who has good clinical studies.

• 1:15:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  Not like TikTok shop, no name.

• 1:15:53Speaker 02

  Right. I know. Yeah. I know. Some no name things. It's, it's hard. They may work. They may work, but it's just annoying if you're just going to experiment. Like go with something that has been tested that we know works. If you don't want to like waste your money.

• 1:16:05Ashley Hesseltine?

  I'm surprised you said that moisturizer, you don't really need to splurge.

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  You don't. Of course, you know, there's, there's some great moisturizers you can splurge on that have like lovely growth factors and peptides in them. But Servey, Cetaphil, La Roche Posay.

• 1:16:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:16:19Speaker 02

  Olay. Olay makes a wonderful anti aging moisturizer with like peptides. They're regenerous.

• 1:16:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  This is great.

• 1:16:25Speaker 02

  Yeah. So.

• 1:16:25Rayna Greenberg?

  I'm going to get on that.

• 1:16:26Speaker 02

  Like Servey. Yeah. The Servey has a good peptide, like their, their skin renewing night cream is fantastic.

• 1:16:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then what are some of the more splurges? moisturizers that you.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  I love the SkinCeuticals, um, they're AG interrupted. It just has some other ingredients like antioxidants and other ingredients to like, help with collagen remodeling. I am also a fan of, maybe because I'm using it right now, but like Lancome had this partnership with Timeline, which uses this ingredient called Mitopure anyways.

• 1:16:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, we talked about them.

• 1:16:59Speaker 02

  But yeah, so there's some, there's some nice ones out there, but you don't have to splurge.

• 1:17:02Ashley Hesseltine?

  Great, great. I'm looking to spend less money on that. But Tretenoin is, that's your retinol and that is prescription?

• 1:17:08Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, so I know it's, the terminology is really confusing, but retinol is over the counter. Tretenoin is prescription and that's, well, the brand name is Retinay for that.

• 1:17:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:17:17Speaker 02

  But yes, that's prescription and that is going to be stronger than retinol and retinol because it works pretty quickly.

• 1:17:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is there any reason why I shouldn't just be doing that?

• 1:17:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can totally do that. Some people, if their skin is on the drier side or on the sensitive side, may do better, starting with a more gentle retinol.

• 1:17:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  That's like the, the high level.

• 1:17:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think a lot of people.

• 1:17:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  The final boss of retinol.

• 1:17:38Speaker 02

  It's also a matter of like using it correctly too. Like you only need like a pea sized amount for the whole face. It doesn't seem like a lot. And if you do have sensitive or dry skin, you could use a moisturizer first. It's almost like a buffer and then use the Tretenoin on top of it.

• 1:17:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And chemical wise, I mean, even chemicals with sunscreen, I mean, some people will say use mineral sunscreen only, only zinc.

• 1:17:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, let's talk about it.

• 1:17:59Ashley Hesseltine?

  As an ingredient or, you know, cause also, by the way, we're talking about face today. You should use sunscreen everywhere. You should put these products obviously on your neck and your decollete, right? You know, I think we want to talk about not just focus on the face and the rest of our body, but I try to do zinc sunscreen on my body and I will sometimes just do an oil that I know has a bunch of chemicals in it and I don't care. Like I just don't like the way it feels.

• 1:18:21Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't either. It's just tough.

• 1:18:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like I like these oils.

• 1:18:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:18:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  They feel nice.

• 1:18:25Speaker 02

  When people say like, what's the best sunscreen? It's really the one that you're willing to use regularly.

• 1:18:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:18:31Speaker 02

  And we do recommend like, yeah, we do recommend a minimum of SPF 30.

• 1:18:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:18:36Speaker 02

  Which most sunscreens are broad spectrum. But yeah, I know there's like a lot of noise about chemical sunscreens, like potentially being bad for you and, or not good, I guess. But it's a lot of people who's fearing chemical sunscreen. It's because there's, there were studies that were done where it was given in insanely high doses, like large doses to like animals, whether it was marine life or rats and that then there were like some endocrine issues with that. But it was like abnormally high levels that we would never be exposed to as humans. So yeah, I think people are just concerned by that. So then they'll, they'll translate that to like, oh, just avoid chemical sunscreens altogether and just stick with mineral sunscreens.

• 1:19:19Speaker 02

  Chemical sunscreens are nice though, because they are more elegant. They're, they're not going to be thick, white, pasty. Um, most skin tones can really do well with chemical sunscreens. The one issue that we do have as derms is that it can be irritating for some people, like people with rosacea or sensitive skin. We should say be cautious.

• 1:19:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's just that the Kodali I bought in France, like it's SPF 50, my skin glows.

• 1:19:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, love it.

• 1:19:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's not zinc, but I feel like I cannot wake up and slather my body in zinc every day. I don't want to.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:48Ashley Hesseltine?

  So I wanted to have this conversation, but I guess there's this part of me that's like, I'm just really baking chemicals in my skin, but is that just me being like, like, that's not really what's happening?

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, like they are chemicals, but whether or not they're doing anything bad is we, we don't have evidence to show that it is.

• 1:20:04Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. I've put terrible stuff in my body my whole life. Yeah. I mean.

• 1:20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:20:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  I really.

• 1:20:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like if you're, yeah, drinking alcohol.

• 1:20:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  Alcohol, it's a poison in my body. I mean, I'm just glad you said this. Whatever you're willing to do, you know, like I love vacation as a brand. I love the smell.

• 1:20:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have fine sunscreens.

• 1:20:19Ashley Hesseltine?

  Sometimes it's, the easiest thing for me to do is to do the spray and get my chest and my arms before I go out the door. And yes, I guess it's healthier to slather on a bunch of zinc, but that's, I'm not doing it. So it's like, I think what you're willing to do.

• 1:20:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's what you're willing to do.

• 1:20:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, thank you.

• 1:20:36Rayna Greenberg?

  Okay. No, I think there's like a million things that people are like, I'm going to tug on this lever and this lever and lift something. It's like, I'm just, I'm trying my best out of here.

• 1:20:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Like skin protection is better than not, no matter what.

• 1:20:48Rayna Greenberg?

  Right.

• 1:20:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:20:49Rayna Greenberg?

  So just in terms of like marketing lingo in general and what you find really misleading, let's talk about it. Like I think so many things are claiming to be like clean and organic and is there certain language that you find triggering? Like that's not true.

• 1:21:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know. I'm, cause as somebody who is like more holistically minded and really like looking at all the environmental factors that are playing a role. I do think the word clean can be very misleading, like all natural.

• 1:21:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:14Speaker 02

  Because we don't even have a standard definition of what that means. Clean can mean so many things and I think it's mostly a marketing term. Uh, I appreciate the effort behind the brand for trying to promote something that's maybe healthier, but I just think it's, it's misleading. So.

• 1:21:31Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. I mean, I think you, if you really want to have organic skincare, you have to have a USDA organic seal of approval. Like, I mean, right?

• 1:21:39Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, with organic skincare. Yeah.

• 1:21:41Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. If you really want to have organic, it has to, it's hard to get an organic label. I used to work for an organic skincare company. I did their social. I remember all the ins and outs of how difficult it was to get that. So.

• 1:21:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:21:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  I think we all know with food too, it is or it isn't.

• 1:21:54Rayna Greenberg?

  Natural coloring in food actually means we chemically produce this, right?

• 1:21:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  I guess it's open to interpretation, but it's like, natural means doesn't mean anything. I think in general.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:03Ashley Hesseltine?

  Anyone can say it, I guess. Okay. So anybody can say it. That doesn't actually mean what you think it means in terms of like food and like, what about like when people say medical grade and not toxic?

• 1:22:14Speaker 02

  I know. That's also another marketing term.

• 1:22:16Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  I mean, cause medical grade can mean a bunch of things. It could mean like skincare that a dermatologist would sell in their office or like a physician would sell in their office. Or like.

• 1:22:26Rayna Greenberg?

  It's not a legal term. Is that?

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  It's not.

• 1:22:28Rayna Greenberg?

  Not, something can be branded kosher and that's like a legal term and has to be going.

• 1:22:32Ashley Hesseltine?

  Same with USDA organic.

• 1:22:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. So it's not a legal term at all, or it could also refer to skincare brands that have a lot of clinical studies to back them up. But a lot of drugstore brands have a lot of clinical studies to back them up, like the ones I mentioned, Serbina, La Roche Posay, Cetaphil, like they have amazing clinical studies. So they're kind of medical grade. Um, so yeah, I think it's more just for like these professional offices that sell these products.

• 1:22:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, good. Okay. We want to talk to you about little things you can do that don't cost as much money. If it's gua sha, ice roller. I mean, I think this is also the reason people go to like a face gym or, you know, do these facial massages. They're like, I look so snatched. I mean, I want to just talk to you about like moving the face around in that way. And if it makes a difference or we're just playing ourselves.

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. So I think it's a little bit of both. I think it does make a difference. I think it's, it's one of those things where it could be a little bit overhyped at the same time too. Like I think that before you run to gua sha or face roller, which by the way, I love and do those things.

• 1:23:33Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I love my face roller.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  Oh my God.

• 1:23:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Pre-.

• 1:23:35Speaker 02

  Obsessed. Yeah. I keep mine in the freezer.

• 1:23:38Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yes.

• 1:23:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. It helps with like puffiness and all that.

• 1:23:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  It is stimulating.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  And it's stimulating. Like, so I'm a fan of any kind of like massage on the face.

• 1:23:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:23:45Speaker 02

  But I would say before you like run to do those things, which are affordable and easy, I just want to make sure that you're also having good skincare routine. Cause we have way more evidence to support that. But yeah, anything that like promotes circulation in your skin, whether it is gua sha, whether it is just like massaging your face with your fingers or using a face roller, I think that you are helping bring more nourishment to the skin and you're helping like detoxifying like the things you don't want. So you're moving the circulation around. You're moving the lymphatics system. So I am a fan of that, but like I said, I wouldn't do that as your only thing. Make sure you're doing your skincare.

• 1:24:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then red light.

• 1:24:23Speaker 02

  I'm a fan of red light too, for the face. Yeah. I think that we could use a little bit more evidence for it, but I do think that it is very rejuvenating for skin cells and, um, overall will make your skin cells work better and help with things like fine lines and yeah, that glow.

• 1:24:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay. And lastly collagen, taking it.

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. I am on team collagen. I think that there are benefits to it. It's funny because there's still like a mixed opinion amongst derms. I think more derms are like promoting it or recommending it, but we have great studies, but most of them are industry backed. So you have to kind of take them with a grain of salt. Like, are they biased in some way? But I mean, I have seen it transform my patient's skin. I do, there's a lot of like good, I mean, for me, just anecdotally, I think that it is effective. And it's hard to ignore some of these studies, even if they are industry backed, that, that it is helpful.

• 1:25:15Rayna Greenberg?

  And orally or topically?

• 1:25:16Speaker 02

  Orally. So topical collagen is a different situation. I think it's very hydrating. It doesn't translate to more collagen in your skin. It's, it's a nice hydrating ingredient.

• 1:25:24Rayna Greenberg?

  It's just, it's so interesting. One of these TikTok brands was like, it's this collagen mask and our girlfriend who's an optician was like, your skin can't absorb that much collagen. It's false marketing.

• 1:25:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. It's such a large molecule. It doesn't like actually absorb.

• 1:25:35Ashley Hesseltine?

  Well, Dr. Barrett, who we mentioned sells it and I stand by it. I do it in my.

• 1:25:39Rayna Greenberg?

  Orally.

• 1:25:40Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, the powder. And I put it in my coffee and I, he said, you can put it in your coffee and I, I believe him. Of course I trust him with my life, but I wanted to, you know, research myself because I was like, how would it not break this down? And it allegedly doesn't.

• 1:25:51Rayna Greenberg?

  The acid in the coffee?

• 1:25:52Ashley Hesseltine?

  You can, to the heat.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  The heat. Yeah. But I think it works.

• 1:25:55Ashley Hesseltine?

  It's fine. It's like, so I just do, it's unflavored and he designed it that way. So you could put it in water if you want, but it's just, I do my scoop in my coffee in the morning and you know, I think there was these years of like, is it bullshit? Is it not? And I think everyone we trust has moved into this, it is beneficial. And it's not like what.

• 1:26:14Rayna Greenberg?

  Snake oil.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's beneficial. I think if people are like, which one should I do? There's one that I do appreciate the studies for. It's called Verisol. V E R I S O L, which a lot of popular brands incorporate, like Vital Proteins has Verisol collagen.

• 1:26:29Rayna Greenberg?

  That's the one that I've used.

• 1:26:29Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, and there's another brand called Sparkle Wellness. So yeah, that's just if you're trying to not be overwhelmed by what's out there.

• 1:26:36Rayna Greenberg?

  All right, well, let's talk about procedures that are non-surgical, but how do you feel about certain microneedling? Botox, things like that, non-surgical, and when to start those things?

• 1:26:47Speaker 02

  Yes, so I think that it's person dependent, but I am a fan of non-surgical ways to enhance your skin. There's different ones out there. So of course, there's Botox, which, I mean, nobody needs any of these things, but in terms of when to start, it's when you start noticing lines that are just hanging around, that are like etched in your skin. And it can vary from person to person. It could be your late twenties, it could be your mid thirties.

• 1:27:13Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:14Speaker 02

  Some, I've had like one patient who was like sixteen, who had this huge crease in the middle of her forehead, and that's because of her anatomy and like the way she makes expressions.

• 1:27:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  My mom doesn't have that, and she never has.

• 1:27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:24Ashley Hesseltine?

  My mom is, she's seventy-three. My mom does not have those lines that I got at twenty-eight. Like, I think she has more collagen in her face naturally. Like, I look at her, her face looks like puffy in a good way, but it's just crazy.

• 1:27:37Rayna Greenberg?

  I don't think she has crow's feet. No, it's honestly crazy. And I've noticed those lines at different points in my life. The eleven lines for me started to come in pretty early. I mean, actually, I just laugh a lot.

• 1:27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:46Rayna Greenberg?

  Like, I was twenty-seven when I started to see those lines really permanently forming, and I started Botox at twenty-seven. And like, it really has just alleviated that. But my crow's feet, I didn't notice until we started touring, actually, and we were in so many photos.

• 1:27:58Speaker 02

  Just laughing so much. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:27:59Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, Casey Bolsham has this. She's a comedian friend of ours, and she's like, oh, you have laugh lines, you pig. We'll zap those out. But she's laughing, you're having too much fun. But I didn't notice crow's feet until I was like probably thirty-three, thirty-four. Like, I started Botox-ing different parts throughout my life, but it's been so preventative for me. Whereas like my mom has like deep lines, especially those eleven.

• 1:28:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah. Yeah, and we, we talked a lot, if you guys can listen back again, we talked with Dr. Barrett, who was our injector, about Botox and fillers and when to start all that. But I did really want to ask you about these facials and, you know, even just a big question of like, I'm getting married, which one do I do? And I dealt with this and I crowdsourced and people had all kinds of things to say, and I wasn't going to do something as drastic with the time I had before the wedding to get like a CO2 laser, which Raina has gotten and like changed your whole face. Which I still want to do, but I like, sort of want to go under anesthesia for it.

• 1:28:50Rayna Greenberg?

  I was under anesthesia for it. I was getting a chin implant, and so I was not awake for it.

• 1:28:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  But in terms of

• 1:28:55Speaker 02

  That's the best way to do it.

• 1:28:56Ashley Hesseltine?

  Like, microneedling, or is it the Hollywood facial? There's all these different names. Like, we just wanted to talk to you about like, we'd love to hear your feelings on regular, just facial facials, and just the more intense ones, and like the spectrum of, and what you feel about those.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think that there's also a little bit clarity that's needed on what facials are, because it could also just be like a little bit of a facial massage. Or it could be like a full-on exfoliating session with chemical peels.

• 1:29:23Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:24Speaker 02

  Or it could be just like extractions that are done by an esthetician. So I think facials can mean a variety of different things. When it comes to, I guess, different types of facials, there's like, I'll talk about microneedling first, because sometimes even that's incorporated with a facial, like vampire facial. That's microneedling with PRP.

• 1:29:39Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, I've done that.

• 1:29:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm a fan, actually. But yeah, microneedling, I love. I think it's a nice like gateway procedure for people, because the downtime is so minimal. Twenty-four to forty-eight hours of redness. And, I mean, I don't think it's like, going to be as strong as some of the stronger lasers, whether it's CO2 or Fraxel. But, but I do think that it's a nice way to get some rejuvenation, stimulating your collagen, and helping kind of even out your skin tone a little bit, helping with fine lines, wrinkles, some scarring, and yeah.

• 1:30:10Ashley Hesseltine?

  And manageable pain, like the

• 1:30:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh yeah, totally.

• 1:30:14Ashley Hesseltine?

  Spectrum of pain, too. And it's like, it's doable, it's not scary.

• 1:30:19Speaker 02

  It's not scary, yeah. We do recommend topical numbing cream, but yeah, it knocks it all out. It's funny, because like, even though I'm a derm, I like, that's the only procedure that I do, like maybe once a year. Like, I barely do, like, any, like, I don't do lasers or anything, just because I can't deal with the downtime. I'm like, I just can't, I just, I want twenty-four hours.

• 1:30:38Rayna Greenberg?

  So people, they, I mean, CO2 laser, I couldn't be on camera for at least a week.

• 1:30:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:44Ashley Hesseltine?

  And then, okay, two questions. CO2 versus Fraxel, do you have thoughts and feelings?

• 1:30:50Speaker 02

  Well, I think that CO2 will give you more dramatic results.

• 1:30:54Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:30:55Speaker 02

  But the traditional ones, like the downtime was really long, like you just looked really gnarly for a week or two weeks.

• 1:31:01Ashley Hesseltine?

  Morpheus is the other one.

• 1:31:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that's, so that's radio frequency with microneedling, which actually that has low downtime.

• 1:31:06Ashley Hesseltine?

  Staple gun to the face. I got it done. I wanted to die. I've never felt

• 1:31:10Speaker 02

  It can be painful for some people. And that's also provider dependent, as well, in terms of your results and your experience. But with CO2, there, there are some newer ones now where the downtime is much less.

• 1:31:21Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay.

• 1:31:21Speaker 02

  So something to think about. We, we don't have it in our practice, but yes. And then, we do have Fraxel, which I do like. That is about a one-week downtime.

• 1:31:29Ashley Hesseltine?

  Is that kind of in between microneedling and CO2, pain-wise?

• 1:31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably closer to CO2. There's going to be more pain with that. Yeah, like the heat is intense.

• 1:31:40Rayna Greenberg?

  They recommend that you be

• 1:31:42Speaker 02

  Not for that one, not for Fraxel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just numbing cream can

• 1:31:46Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and then salmon sperm?

• 1:31:48Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. So that's big in Korea. I know. Well, that has PD-RN, which has been shown to help with collagen regeneration. So PD-RN is, is, it's like polydeoxyribonucleotide, and it's, and it's a molecule that can help with collagen regeneration. And it works, and I can see why it's incorporated. It works best, we have the best studies for it as an injection. So like, if you've seen those videos, like where it's like little, it's almost like little blebs under the skin. And that's done in Korea. There are places in the US where it's done, but it's not FDA-approved, so I can't wholeheartedly recommend it. Would I, will I get it in Korea? Yeah.

• 1:32:26Rayna Greenberg?

  Yeah, we're going to take like a best friendship to Korea one day, and just like get everything.

• 1:32:30Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, our friend got it done here and was like, it's not really, I'm going to try it. But yeah, I didn't realize it's an injection type. So it's not really your traditional facial in any way.

• 1:32:40Speaker 02

  Right, right. Yeah, it's just like little injections in your skin.

• 1:32:43Ashley Hesseltine?

  And it's just plumping, like all the

• 1:32:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, it, it plumps, because it's like, it's like regenerating collagen. It's nourishing to the skin.

• 1:32:51Ashley Hesseltine?

  And you know, when I crowdsourced on what facial to get before my wedding, again, I didn't have much, I think it was a week before, so people were like, don't do anything crazy. But just get a really nice hydrating facial. She did some dermaplaning, she did something, exfoliating, like, it was nice. It was just like, I felt like very glowy, Brenna.

• 1:33:11Rayna Greenberg?

  And nothing you haven't tried before.

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:33:13Ashley Hesseltine?

  Yeah, and I'm super prone to, not super sensitive, and I told her that, but again, our friend Brenna has a Tribeca esthetician as her handle, and I got one with her and it was even better. Like, it was just really nice. You don't have to do all of that, especially if you don't have the downtime. And you, I feel like I could see a difference.

• 1:33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. We have one in our office called the Hydrofacial.

• 1:33:34Ashley Hesseltine?

  The Hydrofacial, yeah, which is a machine, by the way. Like, a lot of people mentioned that to me, and I didn't know what that meant, but it is, all it is, is the machine.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a brand of a machine. It's almost just like a little microderm abrasion, but it's so gentle, it's infusing like serums into your skin. While it's like, exfoliating or essentially like suctioning out like the dead skin. Love that. I recommend that often before weddings. But there's also benefit for even long-term use, like it helps your collagen over time as well.

• 1:33:58Ashley Hesseltine?

  And something like a microneedling, what do you see frequency of people doing this? Is it, you know, let's say it's a woman in her late thirties, early forties, where money's not really a problem, like, are they coming six months? Once a year, like a quarterly? Like, what do you see in terms of frequency? What do you recommend?

• 1:34:15Speaker 02

  Initially, I do recommend if you could do it like once every six to eight weeks for like three treatments initially. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then maintenance between, you know, one to four times a year, depending on the person. Yeah.

• 1:34:28Ashley Hesseltine?

  So yeah, like stack a few if you can, and then you could even go annually. It's like a maintenance. I like that.

• 1:34:34Rayna Greenberg?

  Well, this, I mean, I can't believe how much information

• 1:34:36Ashley Hesseltine?

  I know.

• 1:34:38Speaker 02

  I can talk way more if you want.

• 1:34:40Rayna Greenberg?

  No, you're okay. We would stay on it. We took them to be our agent. This has been phenomenal, and I really, again, we recommend that people check out your Instagram, because it's a real wealth of information. But tell everybody where they can find you, your practice, your social media, everything.

• 1:34:53Speaker 02

  Yes, so I'm on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. My handle is Dr.Mamina, D R dot M A M I N A. I also have a website, DrMamina.com. If you're interested in prescription retinoids, I co-founded a prescription service with two other derms. Yeah, it's called DermClick.

• 1:35:08Ashley Hesseltine?

  Just not bringing this up?

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's if you want a nice Trent now in, so it's like a nice formula. Yeah, Trent now in, yeah, and anything for acne, rosacea, check out DermClick.com.

• 1:35:20Ashley Hesseltine?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  And, yeah.

• 1:35:22Ashley Hesseltine?

  I will be doing that.

• 1:35:25Ashley Hesseltine?

  Okay, and you guys know where to find us, girlsgottaeat.com, Girls Gotta Eat Podcast on Instagram and TikTok. I'm Ash Hess on Instagram and TikTok. Raina is Rayna Greenberg. RainaGreenberg.com for her fall tour tickets. You can watch full video on Spotify and YouTube. Subscribe, share this episode with a friend, leave a comment, leave a review, and we will see you guys Thursday.

• 1:35:41Rayna Greenberg?

  Have a good week, guys.

• 1:35:42Ashley Hesseltine?

  Bye.