EP#42 What It’s Really Like to Live in Space w/ Anousheh Ansari

In this episode, Peter and Anousheh discuss her journey to space, advice for women entrepreneurs, and Anousheh’s path to leadership at XPRIZE. You will learn about: 17:32 | How Do You Go From Telecommunications To Flying Into Space? 57:21 | Advice for Women Leaders: Break the Mold 1:24:11 |Why Are The World's Billionaires So Scared To Innovate? Anousheh Ansari is the CEO of the XPRIZE Foundation. Ansari, along with her family, sponsored the organization’s first competition, the Ansari XPRIZE, a $10 million competition that ignited a new era for commercial spaceflight. She captured headlines around the world when she embarked upon an 11-day space expedition, accomplishing her childhood dream of becoming the first female private space explorer, first astronaut of Iranian descent, first Muslim woman in space, and fourth private explorer to visit space. > Learn about XPRIZE. _____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are, please support this podcast by checking out our sponsor: Use my code MOONSHOTS for 25% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic: seed.com/moonshots If you want to try House of Macadamia products for yourself, you can get 20% off your first order by using the code PETER20 at checkout. Just go to houseofmacadamias.com/peter and enter the code PETER20 at checkout. As my listener, you'll be getting a complimentary Extra Virgin Macadamia Oil with your order. _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now: Tech Blog _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots and Mindsets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:32Speaker 01

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• 1:01Speaker 02

  I knew the passion I had for space, and I was willing to give my life to go to space and take the risk. And I knew there were millions of people like me who would do the same. And as long as we understood the risk and still we were willing to take that chance and build something and risk our lives to go to space, I think it was our right to make that choice. Exploration and expanding humans' footprint in the universe is important, and I truly believe that.

• 1:37Peter Diamandis?

  I'm super excited to have a dear friend, a colleague, an extraordinary CEO, entrepreneur, Anusha Ansari. Anusha made headlines around the world in 2006 when she participated in an 11-day space expedition and became the first female private space explorer, first astronaut from Iranian descent, first Muslim woman in space, and the fourth private space explorer. She was the benefactor of the $10 million Ansari X Prize for Spaceflight and is currently the CEO of the X Prize Foundation, where she continues to lead our Mission of creating incentive competitions to solve the world's grandest challenges. Before joining X Prize, Anusha served as the CEO of an IOT company called Protea.

• 2:21Peter Diamandis?

  And she was previously the CEO of Telecom Technologies. She serves on the World Economic Forum of Global Futures and has received multiple awards and honors that would take me an hour just to list. In 2010, she published her memoirs, My Dream of Stars, to share her life story and inspire young women around the world. An extraordinary friend and a co-venture to the stars and solving the world's grand challenges. Anusha, it's a pleasure to have you here.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Peter, it's great to be here with you. Thank you.

• 2:54Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, of course. So, question for you. It's September 18th, 2006. You're at the Baikonur Cosmodrome. It's about 8:00 AM, you're 150 feet in the air, and you're sitting atop a 40-year-old piece of Soviet technology, on top of 670,000 pounds of explosives. Next to you are Mikhail Turin of Russia, your commander, and then Mike La, a mutual friend of ours, a US astronaut. And you're about to fly to the space station. What is going through your mind?

• 3:30Speaker 02

  It's a, it was a very interesting moment that I remember very clearly because we were sitting there, we finished all our checklist, and we were just listening to music, classical music in our headsets, something just like this. And, and I was thinking to myself, is this really happening? Am I really going to space? And then, you know, this sense of gratitude because I was just thinking like a flashback of my life, of all the dots that had to connect, all the people who I met, including you, that put me on the path that got me to be in that seat on top of that rocket.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  It was, I mean, it was something that I could have never planned. And, and just thinking about how many things had to come together to make that happen. And I felt privileged and a sense of gratitude was the most strongest feeling I had at that moment.

• 4:32Peter Diamandis?

  So. Three, two, one. The engines ignite and Soyuz is lifting out of the Baikonur Cosmodrome. What did it feel like? I mean, what was, how would you describe that moment?

• 4:47Speaker 02

  Everything happens, at least in my head, happened faster than I thought. So lots of shaking and I'm strapped into my seat and just watching all the lights go green and red and green and red and making sure that they're going in the right sequence. So at that moment, I was very focused on making sure that there are no problems and everything's happening the way it's supposed to happen. And then you're going very fast. You feel the G forces increasing on your chest and all of a sudden, you know, the first stage is over and then everything stops. It's like you're going fast and you stop and it's like a moment of silence.

• 5:29Speaker 02

  And then the second stage kicks in and you feel the kick and then you're going up again. But before that also, we were in the dark because there was a nose cone over the capsule and just before the second stage that just when we launched, a few minutes after launch, when the nose cone goes off, it's a big explosion and then there's light coming in, which was really special. But then, you know, you go through the second stage and I think it takes about maybe 12 to 13 minutes to be in microgravity. And then the first thing I saw, someone had dropped a pencil that we didn't know on the floor of the capsule.

• 6:13Speaker 02

  So I saw this, you know, pencil sort of rise up and start floating in front of me, which made me giggle and start laughing. And then, you know, other things, we were strapped, so I couldn't feel that I was moving up, but still you feel that your weightlessness and it was so, so, so special. And I felt like a kid. I was just giggling and laughing like a kid.

• 6:39Peter Diamandis?

  I was gonna ask you, were you, in those moments of the launch, sitting there between the bike, you know, the launch in Baikonur and getting to 17,500 miles an hour, you know, 12 minutes later, were you? Were you a kid or an engineer or scientist? What were you in those moments?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  I was a kid. I was totally a kid.

• 7:00Peter Diamandis?

  Did you feel ready? Did you feel like, like, okay, I'm ready for this?

• 7:04Speaker 02

  I did. I had trained almost nine months in Star City and done a lot of sims and studied everything. And so I felt ready. We had done so many simulation that I wasn't worried about what would happen next. And frankly, you know, that morning, I felt such a feeling of calm and peacefulness because I felt that even if I die, I'm dying doing something that I wanted to do all my life. So how many people get to do that? And so I wasn't worried about the dangers of things going wrong. I was just focused on the experience that I will have.

• 7:49Speaker 02

  And that's why I was a kid, because I wanted to experience it fully with all of my heart. And I did, and it was fantastic.

• 7:58Peter Diamandis?

  So I'm gonna take you back. You're in Tehran, yes, as a child?

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:03Peter Diamandis?

  What were your first memories of space? When did you? And you and I share a very similar background in our childhood passions. You know, I remember mine. And I'm curious, do you remember yours? Do you remember when you sort of first said, "I want to go to the stars"?

• 8:20Speaker 02

  For me, it was gradual, but constant. And that was this fascination with the night skies and the stars. So I would, you know, summer nights, we would sleep outside on the balcony because we didn't have air conditioning. And I would love those nights because I could sleep and just, and they would put these malaria nets over the bed. And I refused to have one because I wanted to look at the night skies. And just when I looked up at the stars, it was like this whole new world. This universe opened up to me and I could, you know. Create stories and worlds and places to go, things to do, aliens to meet.

• 9:05Speaker 02

  And it was fascinating to me and and I this constant question in my head that's what's up there, what's out there, how can I go there and figure it out? So it was that question that drew me to wanna become an astronaut, wanting to go to space and sort of discovering what's out there.

• 9:26Peter Diamandis?

  And and when did you first have the idea that that might be an option versus just, you know, sort of sitting on the ground and appreciating it? Did did anybody that you knew have that kind of a dream or a goal? I mean, is it is it possible for a a young girl from uh from Iran to have that kind of a dream?

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Well, um, I loved sci fi and and I read a lot of sci fi stories, especially um the uh uh Jules Verne was one of the authors that I read as a child. And so all those fascinating uh voyages uh that I would go on. So in my head, maybe it was my ignorance. I was like, yeah, of course I can go to space. And then I used to watch Star Trek and I'm like, there will be a Starship Enterprise and I can go to space with Starship Enterprise. So uh I I didn't understand the complexity and the problems associated with it. So um it's sort of, you know, made it simple in my head that I, yeah, of course I can go to space, that's not a problem.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  Uh it's only when I became an adult and I came to US, I understood all the difficulties associated with it and and that it's not, it wasn't possible unless I figured out a way to join NASA or one of the government space agencies.

• 10:48Peter Diamandis?

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• 11:31Peter Diamandis?

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• 12:10Peter Diamandis?

  Let's take it from there. What brought you to the States? And I want to take people through your entrepreneurial journey, you know, as women and entrepreneurs, men and women, look at what you've done. It's been extraordinary. Companies you've built and the journeys and fulfillments you've gone on. But talk about your family's transition from Iran to the US and going to school and becoming an engineer, if you don't mind.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  So I left Iran when I was about 16 years old. I was just about to start Grade twelve and we left and we had this rare opportunity where finally my mom's request to get a green card came through and and they had that accepted our application after twelve years. So this is after the revolution. Um, you know, this is uh during the Iran-Iraq war, so um uh that which went on for eight years, but I was there for the first five years of that. And and um so there was this opportunity and and I was excited but scared at the same time.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  I was a teenager, um I uh I had never left Iran before that trip. And um so we left with a lot of anxiety and anticipation. Uh and arrived here um and I was studying uh math and and sciences in Iran and uh ended up uh well, first I wanted to become an astrophysicist and and I got accepted um to University of Virginia and uh my mom convinced me that that's not a really great career choice because all I could do is become a professor and that I didn't even speak English. I would be a good professor if I couldn't communicate well.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  And I should think of something else. And I was at my core, I'm always a problem solver. I love solving puzzles. Uh I'm curious, so engineering became my second choice, which was in retrospect, really a good choice because it helped me get to to my dream and and going to space. I became an electrical engineer in computer science. This is in um late nineteen eighties, uh early nineteen nineties. So it was an area that was growing, changing, lots of job opportunities. And uh so I I became an engineer and started working for a telecommunications company, um MCI, a company that doesn't exist anymore.

• 14:48Peter Diamandis?

  Microwave Communications, Inc., yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 02

  Yes, and and it's interesting because um that, you know, that

• 14:56Speaker 02

  Opportunity to work for them, it was and learning about their history. Because their history is interesting, they disrupted telecom. They disrupted the whole, you know, conglomeration of the big mobiles and and the and changed the face of, you know, telecommunications by doing that and the breakup of the bill companies. Um, so it that that story was fascinating to me and and really interested me in how a small company can really disrupt big conglomerates. So that maybe had something to do with my entrepreneurial desires later on.

• 15:35Peter Diamandis?

  So were you, when you were being educated in Iran and in your family, what did your mom and dad do?

• 15:43Speaker 02

  My father was head of sales for the only wine producing company in Iran. This before the revolution, he lost his job after the revolution. So he was in sales and my mom worked as an administrator for in a university and also worked part, worked two jobs to make ends meet. Um, and her second job was in a laboratory where they did blood tests and other things. So I remember I would go in, because it was an evening shift she had. So I would go sit next to her and see her putting blood in different things and putting it in the centrifuge. And so that fascinated me also. It's like all these equipment around me that I didn't know what what they were for.

• 16:26Peter Diamandis?

  And was there a mindset in in your your childhood that you could do anything? Uh, was that was that something that you sort of created through your through your reading and and watching?

• 16:38Speaker 02

  Whether this was lucky or not, because my parents worked all the time. Um, and I was sort of left alone to to entertain myself and do things on my own. I sort of, and I had a very um big imagination in in my head. So I could entertain myself with imagining things and making things up uh all the time. So um I sort of didn't understand the limitations uh in our household. There was no issue with being a girl and and you know, people telling me I couldn't do something because I was a girl. Uh and I left, I was left alone, so I could just, I thought I could do anything I wanted.

• 17:21Speaker 02

  I was, you know, practically being able to to do anything I wanted in the house, so why not outside? I would get in trouble, not too much, um but but mostly I remember I asked a lot of questions and and that drove my mom crazy and they would just pass me along to someone else like, "Go, go ask your, you know, your grandfather." Uh so um I I I I always had a curious mind. And so I think that sort of drove me to want to try different things and and think that I can do anything. Uh it wasn't until I became an adult and and understood. And then after the revolution, frankly, and all the limitations that were put in uh in place,

• 18:03Speaker 02

  you know, against women and especially women in science, like the fact that I wanted to study physics and math became an issue and and it's like your chances of getting into university will be very slim and uh the chances of you finding a job in the field would be very slim. So it was until, it wasn't until later that I realized being a woman is putting me in a disadvantage, especially in Iran.

• 18:26Peter Diamandis?

  And perhaps now in in the new world, it's an advantage, especially as a female entrepreneur. Um I went, let's fast forward. You meet your uh your husband, uh Hamid, uh his brother Amir, and the three of you become sort of an entrepreneurial team. When did the first idea that you would start a company together come in? Because you know, you built three companies with some tremendous success.

• 18:55Speaker 02

  I can't claim that we had like a brilliant idea and all of a sudden it's like, let's go build it. It started slowly and it started when we were very young. We were working for MCI and they changed their headquarters from Washington DC.

• 19:10Peter Diamandis?

  This was Hamid, your husband was?

• 19:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, Hamid and myself, yeah. So that's where we met actually. My brother-in-law and I, Amir, we went to university together. And when I was a year ahead, so when I looked for internship the last year I was in school, he introduced me to the company. My husband, Hamid, worked, which was MCI. And I had started as an intern and then ended up getting hired there and working together. But the company moved headquarters to Texas. We didn't want to go to Texas. Ironically, we ended up there.

• 19:46Speaker 02

  But we left and we started our own consulting business first. We thought we'd try small and learn about what are some of the big companies are thinking about and trying to build. So we came from the advanced planning group of MCI. So we were always looking at what's next that we need to build for the company. So we felt that will be a good area for consulting. And frankly, it ended up being a good choice because we got sort of a view into what future the companies want to build. And then our first big entrepreneurial endeavor was to start building those products, those software products for them and creating them, designing them and then building them for them.

• 20:30Peter Diamandis?

  So this is where Telecom Technologies comes in?

• 20:34Speaker 02

  Correct. And we did this under the Telecom Technology umbrella. And we got to a point, we saw an opportunity to leapfrog that. And instead of... Asking the companies what they want to try to see what are the gaps, what they need instead of what they want. And that's when we started our first products and building, ended up building the first soft switch, which is a technology that enables voiceover IP. And this is before Skype and any of the voiceover IP software that we see right now or applications. So it was way ahead of its time, but something that the companies, the telecom companies

• 21:17Speaker 02

  were looking at in order to reduce costs of, you know, long distance and internet was just starting to grow. So that's what we built and that was the right choice because it ended up being a successful product and exit, yeah.

• 21:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so I have to ask you the question. Was there ever a twinkling in your eye during that time where you're building telecom technologies and you're playing in the telecom market? Like, if I can make it big here, this can be what I can use capital wise to get to space. Was that playing in the back of your mind?

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Well, I can tell you exactly how it came about. So I was, one morning I was getting ready to go to work and on CNN they were showing Dennis Tito. And Dennis Tito was the first...

• 22:06Peter Diamandis?

  This is 2001, yes.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  Before that, it was 1990, I think, eight or nine.

• 22:13Peter Diamandis?

  When we first contracted. Yeah, before he went, yeah.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Before he went.

• 22:17Peter Diamandis?

  This was a company that I had started with Eric Anderson and we were, and Richard Garriott, and we had negotiated a deal with the Russians that we could sell seats to go to the space station. And Dennis was his, was our first.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. And back then, I didn't know you. I didn't know X-Prize. I didn't know you, none of this. But I watched Denis Tito because there was this controversy that, um, you know, we shouldn't let any, uh, commercial passengers to go to the space station. United States was against it. Uh, then it's true. Space Adventure had the contract with the Russians to go. So there was all this controversy playing. And the only thing I took, I didn't care about the controversy. I'm like, wow, there is a way to buy a ticket to go to space. I just need money now because I didn't have the money, of course. So it became actually a motivation to grow the company, grow it faster and exit. Until then, I was just, it was work and I was building a company.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Uh, but that's when actually I thought about exit because now I had the solution to go to space and I wanted to do it, so.

• 23:25Peter Diamandis?

  Interesting. So, uh, you're serving as CEO of Telecom Technologies, yes? Uh, I think Amir, your brother-in-law, is CTO and Hamid's head of marketing. Hamid can sell anything to anybody. He's extraordinary in that regard. Um, and Amir as well, three of you. Uh, and the time from which you said, let's build a software IP switch, a soft switch, um, to the time the company exits, roughly how long?

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Um, I think, um, three and a half years, four years. I mean, the, the idea came about four years and it helped. Uh, it took four years to build it and actually productize it and have sales on it because.

• 24:11Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 24:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, about four years.

• 24:13Peter Diamandis?

  And I, if I remember, the company was sold, uh, to Sonus Networks. Uh, I think, uh, for somewhat over a billion dollars.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:22Peter Diamandis?

  And, and, uh, and that's where our story, uh, uh, comes together. Now, it wasn't just a sale of the company, it was a asset sale of the company. Right, they didn't pick up the employees, they just bought the contracts and the software, I think.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  They did actually, they acquired the entire company. But one thing that we negotiated was they didn't put restriction on the shares that we, all the employees and we all got, except for, you know, some of our shares. But most of the employees were able to basically sell their shares and exit. So it was like an asset sale because, you know, they could realize the cash value for the shares immediately and they didn't have to wait.

• 25:09Peter Diamandis?

  Just to, just to tell those listening where, where we intersect. I am, at this point, it's 2001. I am desperate. I had announced the X Prize under the Arch in St. Louis in May of 1996, five years earlier. And I pitched 150 executives, CEOs, billionaires, philanthropists around the world to say, please put up the $10 million. You don't have to actually pay it until someone flies to space. And by then, of course, it'll be worth it. And everyone's, no, no, no, no, no. And I remember where I was, my apartment on Third Street in Santa Monica, picking up a copy of Fortune's wealthiest 40 women under 40.

• 25:55Peter Diamandis?

  And you were featured in that. And I was just flipping through the pages. And I remember reading a sentence in there that you're, one of your dreams was to fly on a suborbital flight into space. And I must have read that sentence three times because I was like, no, no, no, it cannot be true. Wait, wait, suborbital and fly into space? And who is this woman?

• 26:21Peter Diamandis?

  And then I tracked you down. Do you remember, do you remember the first communication from me at all?

• 26:25Speaker 02

  Yes, so my assistant at that time, we were in Hawaii. We were, we took some time off because we had, had the proper vacation for god knows how many years by then. Um, but um, so we're in Hawaii. We had taken three months off uh to to go and and relax. And my assistant called me because at that time after the announcement, a lot of people were calling. Everyone had an idea, an investment, you know. So she was screening all the calls and then she called me and said, there's a person who's calling. They're very persistent and they want to talk to you about going to space. And and and then she told me about you reaching out. And I'm like, I I immediately I perked up and was like, yes, let's set up a meeting immediately.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  I want to know more. Uh, so uh, I think you were the first meeting we had when we got back to the States and uh to to Dallas, actually. And and you came in uh with uh Byron.

• 27:23Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, I brought I brought an astronaut with me, so I have some credibility.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  Sold me from just walking in with an astronaut and his pictures uh uh in astronaut suits. I was sold.

• 27:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it was uh, I remember uh Byron and I flew down, you were in Plano, Texas. Uh, and uh, we came in, uh, your Hamid Amir, Hamid's older brother uh was there. And we're we're presenting and pitching to you. And uh, and we're like, you know, I I can't tell you how many how many hopes and prayers I was was writing on this meeting because it was like, this has got to be her, this has got to be the person. And um, uh, you didn't tell us yes right away. Do you remember that? You you waited a few days.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  I did. I I I mean, I was sold. I I was totally sold. I was trying to contain my excitement. But but we did, we do everything as a family, so we couldn't huddle in front of you. So we said, we'll get back to you. And then we had a conversation later on. And uh, I I think I I was the most enthusiastic and and uh, you know, I I, everyone else, well, you you really think this is great? I'm like, yes, we need to do this. This is it. And Amir was very supportive too because Amir shares this dream of going to space with me. So between the two of us, we twisted arms and we got the okay.

• 28:54Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, it was our offer was, listen, if you fund this $10 million purse, because we had been successful in bits and pieces. I used to go out and try and raise with Greg Marinac and Bob Weiss, you know, $25,000 at a time. That was a huge success for us. And we were able to fund the operations of the prize, but you know, getting the purse was insanely difficult. And we pitched you and I think it was two days later, I got a call from Hamid, who did all the talking.

• 29:29Speaker 02

  I would not have been able to negotiate, but he was the best negotiator.

• 29:33Peter Diamandis?

  And we called it the Ansari X Prize. Originally, you know, before we were going to call it the Ansari Prize, but the X stuck around because it taken us so long. And of course, that allowed us to turn X Prize into a platform versus a one-off, one-off prize. You know, fast forward, you start getting involved. We start visiting the, the teams out there. What are your, what are your memories of first going out to Scaled Composites and meeting Bert Rutan?

• 30:07Speaker 02

  I love those visits because it made it real for me and I could see people are actually building spaceships. It was incredible. And I remember meeting Bert and, and he's a very unique individual and, and, yes. And he was showing us the sketch of some of the plans he had. And it looked nothing like rocket ships. It was a plane and it was very different design, very different approach. And, and I was thinking to myself, well, would this actually make it up there? And, and I relied a lot on, on you and Greg and, and you had visited and worked with a lot of the teams and you felt that, you know, he

• 30:50Speaker 02

  probably was one of the top running teams in the competition. And he was, I think, better funded than most other teams as well, through Paul Allen, of course. And so I was excited to see his design and, and he was, he didn't warm up to me at the beginning.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  So I felt a little bit ignored, but but but it was fine. I I I was there to learn and it was a, you know, like a kid in a candy store. I was just taking in all the information he was willing to share with us, which he was very protective back then as well. Um, rightfully so. He didn't want his IP to by any chance be compromised and wanted to make sure that protected its design. But he was very uh confident that he's going to win this prize. He he he's like, I'm gonna win this prize.

• 31:47Peter Diamandis?

  And it was it was a, you know, a great compliment when he unveiled Spaceship One and he said that the rules had stood the test of time. Um, and so you and I went up there together uh first on September the twenty ninth for the first uh flight. Uh, Michael Melville's flying this flight. And um, uh, do you remember the aerobatics that that that vehicle had on that flight?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yes. Oh, my God, my heart stopped. I mean, at first I didn't know what's what's going on. I would I was watching on the big Jumbotron and, you know, that this uh corkscrew uh flight pattern.

• 32:30Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, so Mi- Mike had uh Mike had pulled the vehicle up so straight uh uh into a flight regime it hadn't flown before and it started to corkscrew. It it started to roll on on the uh on the long axis. And I I don't remember how many rolls it did. Uh, I think it was like twenty seven rolls before before he got into space and then used the reaction control system to uh to stabilize it.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  And I I was listening on the ground control, talking to him too, and and uh it it they wanted him to abort and then he didn't. He's like, no, I can make it. And I'm like, my heart is stopping. It's like, it's okay. You can try again later.

• 33:13Peter Diamandis?

  You know, one of the things I didn't feel, and I wonder if you did. You know, when I was going out to raise the $10 million prize, one of the objection, there were three objections always. Can anyone really pull it off? Why isn't NASA doing this? And is someone gonna die trying? And there was a sense of feeling of, are we incentivizing people to risk their lives and potentially die in the process? Did that ever hit you, that you're putting up the money might cause a team to build a technology that, you know, we couldn't turn away, but it wasn't safe and they would kill themselves?

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Of course, I understood the risks and felt the weight of it on me, but it wasn't something that would stop me because I knew the passion I had for space, then I was as willing to give my life to go to space and take the risk. And I knew there were millions of people like me who would do the same. And as long as we understood the risk and still we were willing to take that chance and build something and risk our lives to go to space, I think it was our right to make that choice. If we play it safe, we will never advance in anything. So I think it was an important step.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  And I don't know if you remember, the Challenger accident happened before.

• 34:38Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, I do.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was actually another wave of, you know, negative sort of sentiment around our competition and that, you know, even NASA has accidents like this. What makes you guys, you know, small teams to think that you can go to space and you will definitely kill people? And I wrote an op-ed on this as well. And And I talked to a few astronauts and to see how they felt about this. And they all said that it's actually dishonoring the memory of those astronauts who gave their lives because they're in this knowing that exploration and expanding humans' footprint in the universe is important.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  And they're willing to give their lives and using their death as an excuse not to do it is actually dishonoring their memory. And I truly believe that.

• 35:30Peter Diamandis?

  I do as well. I mean, you know, risk is the game that we enable to live humanity at a higher level. You know, I remember something that most people don't know is we set the rules for the Ansari X Prize. You had to build a three-person spaceship. You know, we figured as a pilot and two paying passengers. And you had to fly it to 100 kilometers altitude, land safely, and within two weeks make the trip again. You could replace up to 10% of the dry mass. And it had to be, you know, 90% or more privately funded. So in Spaceship One, where Mike Melville was sitting up front at the controls, there were two empty seats in the back.

• 36:15Speaker 02

  Yes. I wanted one of those seats. I remember the day of the flight, I was telling Bert, you know, I'm happy to replace one of those bags if you want.

• 36:25Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 36:26Speaker 02

  I was like, no, then you can't do that.

• 36:28Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, we gave the option to the teams that instead of risking three lives, you know, it was interesting, it was important to have a human in the pilot seat. Would not have been the same, would it, had we had an autopilot flying the vehicle than Mike Melville on that flight? And in the back two seats, we had all kinds of memorabilia. I remember when I flew on there. Do you remember? Did you fly some things?

• 36:58Speaker 02

  I didn't. I don't remember.

• 37:01Peter Diamandis?

  We'll have to go back in our time machine.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know.

• 37:04Peter Diamandis?

  I flew a copy of The Spirit of St. Louis, the book that Greg Marinac had given me that inspired the Ansari X Prize. I flew Atlas Shrugged. I'm a huge Ayn Rand fan. And then I flew The Man Who Sold the Moon by Robert Heinlein, which had inspired so much for me. And then we flew certificates that we used for fundraising with the X Prize and bags of pennies that we gave out to people and so forth. They had to, they had to come up with, I don't know, something like 400 pounds of ballast back there. So he flies on September 29th and then the rules were you had to fly again within two weeks. So what does Bert do next?

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Well, he definitely didn't want to wait two weeks. So he wanted to make a memory of the second flight. So I think it was October 4th.

• 37:57Peter Diamandis?

  Yes, which is another date in history, right? It's the anniversary of Sputnik.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 38:02Peter Diamandis?

  October 4th of 1957, where the Soviets beat the Americans to orbit a satellite in space.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he notified us that that's when his second flight will be. And we were scrambling to make sure we get ready to cover it and then be there and bring everyone else there. So it was, it was an exciting two flights, both of them. I remember getting up very early and, and, and surprised by the line of cars in the darkness of the early morning Mojave, all these cars and headlights. I'm like, oh my God, all these people are coming to watch the launch. This is important to a lot of people.

• 38:41Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, we had, God, probably, I don't know, 30 or 40 large satellite trucks and 10,000 plus. It was like a giant party in the middle of the desert. And it was, it was insane. And what was crazy was, you know, Mike Melville had flown that corkscrew flight five days earlier. And what Bert and the team, this was the genius of the group he had, was they figured if they just flied a more shallow flight profile, it would be stable. So they didn't have to modify the vehicle at all. So I don't know if you remember our, our Charles Lindbergh, who won the Ansari X Prize.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 39:19Peter Diamandis?

  Extraordinary pilot, Navy pilot. Remember who that was?

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Yes, Brian Binney.

• 39:24Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, Brian. And flew a picture perfect flight.

• 39:30Peter Diamandis?

  And I remember Brian was told us that the morning, you know, these guys are getting up at 3:30, 4 o'clock in the morning for their flight, and he had barely gotten any sleep the night before. And his mother-in-law steps up to him to give him a hug, and she's got a large Big Gulp soda in her hand, and she's coming to wrap her hams around him. And he's thinking in the back of his mind, what is she gonna do with that giant Big Gulp soda? Where's she gonna put it? And she puts it down in his flight suit. So he does the flight to space with all of this soda sticky on his back. And he does the calculations of like, you know, extra six ounces of weight, how much less altitude is that gonna be? Anyway,

• 40:13Peter Diamandis?

  crazy, crazy. And that was an amazing, amazing day in history for us.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  It was.

• 40:18Peter Diamandis?

  But it was just the beginning of your space adventures, Mademoiselle?

• 40:21Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 40:22Peter Diamandis?

  So, so let's take you back to the connection for the, for the Cosmodrome. How did you get into cosmonaut training?

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Okay, my entire life revolves around X Prize. So we were celebrating the first anniversary of winning of the competition, the N S O R E X Prize. And we had a big party and invited who's who of space agencies and Buzz Aldrin was there and, and also, of course, all the X Prize family. And we had also invited Eric Anderson, and he brought the next person who was supposed to go to space. It was a Japanese businessman. And they were there. And Eric told me that, you know, that he doesn't have a backup. And, you know, I know how interested you are in space. Do you wanna be a backup and just learn about

• 41:18Speaker 02

  the Russian space program and how it works? And because this was something on my list of I wanted to do.

• 41:26Peter Diamandis?

  What year is this roughly?

• 41:29Speaker 02

  This is 2005.

• 41:30Peter Diamandis?

  So, and for a backup, you mean go to, go to Russia and train in Star City?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Correct. And so I, my original plan was to go to space with Space ship one. And and then I knew that I have to wait until they get it commercialized and all that. So I didn't know how long that would take. And this opportunity came and the only question I asked is like, will I be in the same room as the other astronauts? Will I be training next to them and said, yeah, you'll be part of the whole crew. You'll be a backup crew. So I that was the only question I asked. And then I packed my bags and then I was off to Russia to to train for nine months and and be.

• 42:13Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, I want you to describe. I want you to describe the luxurious accommodations that is the Star City training facility. So how would you describe it visually?

• 42:26Speaker 02

  It's I don't think it has changed much since Gagarin flew to space.

• 42:31Peter Diamandis?

  In nineteen sixty one, yes.

• 42:32Speaker 02

  Yes, and and you and Hamid came with me for my qualification because they had to make sure I can enter the program. So you both came with me to Star City and and I remember there was this capsule, the old soy's capsule in the big hall that we entered. And you and I were sat inside and Hamid poked his head in and it's like, you're really going to fly this thing? I'm like, yes. It was so old, everything push button and and and old screen. Then the operating system was DOS. So it was pretty old.

• 43:13Peter Diamandis?

  I remember every I mean, everything was cement and and asphalt and the stairs were crumbling on the way up. It was a it was definitely it was a it was a one star.

• 43:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, trip going back in time, yeah.

• 43:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, for sure, for sure. And so you're you're going through training and and you're expecting that you're going to be in, you know, on the ground, watching as the launch vehicle takes off for eleven days on space station. But that that dream of standing on the ground and watching it was dashed, wasn't it?

• 43:55Speaker 02

  Definitely, fortunately. And it happened very quickly.

• 44:03Speaker 02

  So before that, if you remember, there was a launch, so for the crew before us. And I got the opportunity to go watch the launch. And if I had any doubt in my mind that I wanted to go to space, my God, watching the Soyuz launch just made it that much stronger in my heart. I'm like, I'm gonna do. I started negotiating, like, so when is the first spot that I can sign up to go? And while I was thinking about that, finished the training. And the entire time I was training, I decided that I'm gonna train as if I'm going to space. Because I wanted to.

• 44:41Peter Diamandis?

  You're giving it your all.

• 44:42Speaker 02

  I was giving it my all. And I even designed my patch, which was very presumptuous of me. But like, eventually, I'm gonna go to space. So I started designing my patch and everything. And then the training ended. I remember very clearly, the training ended. It was the last day, we finished our last sim. And Hamid was coming to help me pack, to, you know, get ready to go home. And then the astronauts were going to quarantine to Baikonur. And on my way to the airport, I got a call from Eric. And he's like, Anusha, do you wanna go?

• 45:22Peter Diamandis?

  Eric's the CEO of Space Adventures at this time.

• 45:24Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah. And Eric calls me, he's like, do you wanna go to space? And I'm like, Eric, this is not funny. I'm so depressed. Yeah, exactly. I'm so depressed right now. I was very depressed. The last day, the best time I had in my life, and it's coming to an end. And he's like, no, I'm serious. The person who was supposed to go had a medical condition and they had just disqualified him. And they said that Anusha has passed all the trainings. She's scored very high and she's probably even more ready to go. And it's just a matter of if you wanna go. And I screamed so loud, I think I blew his.

• 46:06Peter Diamandis?

  How long, how many days before flight is this?

• 46:08Speaker 02

  So this was.

• 46:11Speaker 02

  Three weeks.

• 46:12Peter Diamandis?

  Three weeks before. So you're ready to go back to Plano, Texas, and instead you turn your car around and head back, head back there.

• 46:21Speaker 02

  Yes, and I, and, and my first call after, of course, Hamid was there and I, as soon as I saw him, he's like, "Guess what?" It's like, "You're going to space?" I'm like, "Yes, I'm going to space." So, so I got really, um, you know, I, I didn't know what to do. I had only three weeks, so I couldn't prepare anything. And my first call was to you, Peter. It's like, "Peter, I'm going to space. What can I do? What should I do? What experiments should I do?" And I remember you told me, "It's just write about your experience, write a blog." And, and I'm like, "I don't know how to write blogs." Like, just write whatever comes to your mind." And I, and, and I said, "Okay." And you had to actually pull some strings and get permission

• 47:02Speaker 02

  for me to actually publish that blog for X Prize, True X Prize.

• 47:07Peter Diamandis?

  It was an extraordinary, and, and so, uh, how many days on the space station were you? Get, so you launch, how long to get to the space station, how long you're there, coming back down? Give people the flight profile. Those folks may not know what it's, you know, it's like, you know, how quick you can, you can hail your taxi and get to the space station and back.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  So back then, um, uh, it would take two days to get to the space station. So you spend two days inside the capsule, which is, uh, not the best part of the trip because the capsule's pretty small. I was with other two crewmates and, uh, you know, inside the capsule, you're sitting and your knees are to your chest and it's very tight. Uh, and, and then you can get out of your seat once you're in orbit, but, you know, there's just a little bit more room for two people standing close together. And that's the space you have for two days together. And that's also the time when your body's going through a lot of changes. So I, I had motion sickness, I had like tremendous headache, my back hurt, you know, the body's

• 48:08Speaker 02

  adjusting. So it was, that was the bit, you know, the, the hardest part of the trip, I would say. And then after two days, you get to the space station and, uh, compared to the capsule, it's like a luxurious, you know, castle.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  With with all the different modules and I was really happy to get there and stayed nine days on the space station and returned to Earth with a different crew who had just completed their six months.

• 48:37Peter Diamandis?

  Your favorite moment, like the favorite thing, like what do you, when when you close your eyes and you remember being there, what is it you remember?

• 48:46Speaker 02

  There are two very special moments that I remember. Of course, the first one is when I saw Earth for the first time from, and I was still in the capsule. It was after we got to orbit and they had just told us that we can open our seat belts. And I sort of slowly flew up and I had the, you know, porthole next to me. So I flew up a little bit to the porthole and I looked out and it was daylight and I could see Earth. And it was such an emotional moment for me and then I, I just, it was so beautiful and it was like there was this energy and this warmth coming from Earth and I was in the

• 49:29Speaker 02

  capsule, so it wasn't like I was actually feeling it, but, but it was there, I could feel it and, and, and, and I started, you know, laughing and, and, and at the same time crying. It was bizarre. And my teardrop started accumulating under my eyes and then one of them started floating and I saw my teardrop floating and then that made me laugh again. So it was just back and forth, you know, a really big, strong mix of emotions. And then after I got enough of watching our planet and then started getting dark as we turned, I, I decided I'm gonna fly. I can do Superman now.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  And, and I pushed my feet down so hard that I flew so fast, I hit my head to the top of the other module. And, and then I was somersaulting. All the things they told you not to do at the beginning of being in space, I was doing. I was just, I was a kid. I, I was a kid in a candy store. I was just experiencing all these sensations and feelings and sights and, and of course I got very sick after that.

• 50:41Peter Diamandis?

  Did you, did all the motion sickness eventually go away?

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Yes, I had to get a shot. It got so bad, I had to have a shot. And that makes you drowsy. So one regret I have is the first two days inside the capsule. I was very drowsy because of the medication. But by the time we got to the space station, I was, you know, adjusted. I was ready. I was excited. So my body went through all its changes before getting to the space station, which was the best part. I could just enjoy the experience out there.

• 51:15Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, no, that's, that's awesome. You come back down and we begin our journey together on the X Prize. So you've been a trustee of the X Prize since your family stepped up to underwrite the first Ansari X Prize. And I've been a, you know, extraordinary co-conspirator, I'll say, in this, in this journey.

• 51:43Peter Diamandis?

  And we were lucky enough to pull you in as CEO. How many years ago now?

• 51:47Speaker 02

  About three years ago, three and a half years ago.

• 51:49Peter Diamandis?

  Okay. Like I tell you, you know, it's the first three years of your next 300 with together.

• 51:56Peter Diamandis?

  I'll offer you all the longevity services on the planet as long as we keep you as our CEO. Anusha, I want to, I want to talk a little bit about mindset, which I tend to focus on in this, in this podcast. Cause I think it's, what I like to say is that what enables the most successful people on the planet is their mindset. It isn't the money they have. It isn't the technology they have. It's the way they process information and see the world. So let's kick off with a conversation around a passion and purpose-driven mindset. Cause I, I think you're someone who very much exudes passion and purpose.

• 52:36Peter Diamandis?

  Would you, you know, what's your advice to people when, when they're saying, I'm not sure what I want to do, I'm not sure what my purpose is? Do you have any advice for folks to help them find their passion and their purpose?

• 52:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's good if people leave some room for exploration and, and experiences. That's the only way you can find your passion. So, as I said, I have a very curious mind, so I love trying new things. And sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't like it. I think that's very essential to being able to find your purpose and your passion. And a lot of people are looking so hard that even if it's there, they miss it because they think it's formulaic and there's, like, they need to take a test to find out what their passion is. And it's not like that because passion comes from an experience that leaves an emotional

• 53:32Speaker 02

  sort of footprint on you. And then you, you, you know, you, you want to have it again and you want to have it in a bigger way or something that maybe it's an idea that you watch something and I, again, I love sci-fi stuff, so I always got ideas from just watching what the future could be and then trying to make it happen. So I think curiosity and, and allowing yourself to experience different things and having an open mind to these new experiences is a big part of finding your passion. And, and, you know, risk-taking is core to all of it because if you want to play it safe, you will never try something new.

• 54:13Speaker 02

  And if you never try something new, how would you know if it's, if it's something you like or you're passionate about? So those are, I think, very important factors.

• 54:22Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. And it goes back to another mindset I focus on, which is a curiosity mindset, right? Which I think you exhibit in spades. Is there, you know, do you think you were born with a curiosity mindset or is that something you develop over time?

• 54:39Speaker 02

  I think we all are born with curiosity mindset, but some...

• 54:46Speaker 02

  Start putting limits on it and sort of killing it. As kids, we're always curious. Every child is curious because they're just learning. And you can either develop it and let it grow, or you can sort of start it and kill it. And a lot of our systems, sometimes parents, sometimes society, plays a big role in really killing that sense of imagination and curiosity in young people. And that's one thing that if I have a chance to give advice is don't let that die in you because that's the best gift we have as human beings, is this imaginative mind, that the curiosity that we have,

• 55:27Speaker 02

  allowing us to imagine things and then building it later. It starts with that, that whole concept, and it's very unique to human beings. I don't know any more, any other species that we've studied enough that has this type of, you know, capability.

• 55:44Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. And that was, that was part of your patch. What was your mission, what'd your mission and patch say?

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Imagine, be the change, inspire. So I had these three things on top of my patch. So the first part was imagination because without imagination, you don't go anywhere. You have to first see it, imagine it, and then do it. So the second part is the action part, be the change. So if you want something, don't wait for other people to do it for you. You have to do it. You have to make it happen. You have to create it. So it's part of the famous Gandhi quote of be the change you want to see in the world. So you have to manifest that yourself. And then the last part is when you do the first two parts, inspire others to do the same. Because this world will be a much better place and more fun place to live in

• 56:33Speaker 02

  if everyone followed those steps.

• 56:35Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, let me take a quick break from our episode to talk about something important for your diet. Now, as you know, I'm a huge longevity and health champion. Part of my focus is on exercise, sleep, and diet. And when it comes to diet, I'm super careful on what I eat. But throughout the day, when I need energy, I'm looking for a snack. And one of my favorite options is macadamia nuts. And there are four reasons. I want to share them with you. First, macadamia nuts are high in mono unsaturated fats, which are the good fats for your heart. It lowers LDL and raises your good cholesterol. Second, they taste great. And they're rich in fiber, which helps with digestion and gut health.

• 57:17Peter Diamandis?

  Third, macadamia nuts contain antioxidants and flavonoids, which protect your cells from damage and inflammation. And finally, macadamia nuts have a low glycemic index, which means they don't spike your blood sugar. They truly are the king of nuts. I get mine from House of Macadamia, which offers the best macadamia nuts in the world. They're sourced sustainably from South Africa. They offer a huge range of delicious nutritious products, including roasted and dipped macadamia nuts, macadamia nut bars, macadamia oils, which are actually better than olive oil for cooking. If you want to try House of Macadamia products for yourself, you can get 20% off your first order by using the code Peter20 at checkout.

• 58:01Peter Diamandis?

  Just go to houseofmacadamias.com/peter20 and enter the code Peter20 at checkout. That's houseofmacadamias.com/peter20. And then again, use the code Peter20 to get that 20% off. Trust me, you'll love them as much as I do. Now, back to our episode. One of the things that I love is the fact that the X Prize has a significant number of women in leadership positions. And I've often said, you know, it's time to give women, you know, men have screwed up enough, let's hand it over. What's your advice to women out there

• 58:42Peter Diamandis?

  who are, you know, interested in non-traditional, what has been historically non-traditional female careers and/or want to be entrepreneurs and leaders? You know, what do you say to all of them?

• 58:57Speaker 02

  So I think this whole concept, the podcast about mindset, and I think mindset plays a huge role, whether you're male or female. But in women, I think a lot of times we limit, our limiting belief system is what limits us. We are scared to try big things. And part of it, I think, has to do with the fact, and again, I grew up in a different culture, but... Girls are always told to be perfect by their parents, especially their moms usually. It's like you have to look perfect, dress perfect, your hair has to be perfect, everything has to be perfect.

• 59:38Speaker 02

  And when you're trying to be perfect, you don't try things that you may fail at. I remember my grandmother used to discourage me from playing in games where I had to run and I could fall down. It's like you're gonna have a scar on your skin. And if you wanna ever be in a beauty pageant, you can be in a beauty pageant. I'm like, who wants to be in a beauty pageant? I wanna run, I wanna climb, I wanna go up the tree. So I think those types of things as a child puts a sort of this limiting belief system that there are certain things a perfect girl cannot do. And I think we need to get rid of that and, and, and, you know, try everything and, and not be afraid of failing.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  So anyone who wants to try something worthwhile, they need to prepare themselves for failure. And to me, I even don't like the word failure because to me, anything you wanna do that's new, you're gonna make mistakes and things won't work the way you thought. So to me, they're lessons, they're not failures. And, and you just need to understand what went wrong. So next time you don't make the same mistake or make adjustments to do it better. So I think those things are very important in, in, in, in women who want to be in leadership position. I also, um, uh, I also, especially I want a lot of women in the STEM and tech oriented businesses

• 1:01:03Speaker 02

  because I think our society will be run by technology. And the fact that the voices of women leaders are missing in, at the design tables, at the discussion tables. Uh, the world is being built, uh, in a way that it won't be women friendly. Uh, so, so I think it's important for women to be at the discussion table, at the design table, at the leadership role to, to do that. And the last thing I would say is, and this is true for me. When I did things, I didn't think about being a female engineer or a female CEO or a female this or female that. I was me. I was a human being. I was doing things the way I believe should be done,

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  the way I would, if I switch places. My leadership has always been that if I were the employee, what would I wanna see? And I would try to do that. Or when I worked for someone else, what things worked and what things bothered me. So I never went to business school. I don't have a MBA. So everything I did was from intuition and just doing the things I liked in other leaders and not doing the things I didn't like in other leaders. So it was, it's something that I recommend for women. And when you look for mentors, I don't think you just need to limit yourself to female mentors. I think female mentors can understand

• 1:02:30Speaker 02

  some of the challenges that women leaders face. But you can always learn lessons from anyone. And I would actually like that diversity of experiences when you're trying to tackle a problem that's facing you.

• 1:02:46Peter Diamandis?

  I love that. I love that. Let's talk moonshots. That's our business in X Prize. And, you know, is this, is the idea of going big and or going home something that was inherent in your mind as an entrepreneur? Did you gravitate to this idea of going after the world's biggest problems? I mean, I think, I don't think that's for everybody, right? I think some people just like to stick in their knitting and do the 10% incremental work. And other people are like, unless I'm changing the world, I'm not interested, you know? Is that, do you agree with that? Or what's your experience here?

• 1:03:27Speaker 02

  I agree. And so here's the way I look at it. Being an entrepreneur, starting something new, is very risky. It requires a lot of sacrifice, it's hard. I think sometimes people make it sound like it's always fun and games and parties and you get to be your own boss, so you can sleep as late as you want. It's the farthest from the truth. It's hard, you have to be all in if you want to succeed. You have to be dedicated, passionate, and you need to be ready for a lot of failures and adjusting and getting up, you know, and taking the next step.

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  So if you're doing all of that, it's not worth it for a 10% increment. If you want to do that, go work for a company. That's what they do. Large companies, well, they do incremental change. If you want to be an entrepreneur, you need to take big leaps and make sure that your time and energy and the sacrifice you make from your personal life, which you have to make, is worth it. So that would be what I would do. And that's why a lot of things, projects or products that we built, was way ahead of its time. So we were changing something.

• 1:04:43Peter Diamandis?

  To stick on the focus on women leaders and entrepreneurs, I have to imagine it's difficult to have a trade against family, a trade against kids, a trade against, you know, how you spend your time. What do you tell young women in their twenties and thirties who are, you know, going all in on this?

• 1:05:05Speaker 02

  Well, that's exactly the sacrifices that you have to make. You have to have a passion strong enough that you feel like it's worth it because, as I said, you're giving up a lot to be able to do what you do. So you need to be sure that this is something you really want to do, deep down in your heart. And unfortunately, it is a sacrifice right now, but it doesn't have to be, Peter. I think in the future, as business leaders look at things other than just quarterly profits, and even that, I don't think it's an issue. Just being open to creating and accommodating.

• 1:05:51Speaker 02

  People of different backgrounds and different needs to be part of a team, whether it's a leadership team or a design team, that diversity and inclusion will give you a much stronger, better product, service, or company at the end of the day. So I think it's worth making some accommodations to create that environment that invites everyone, invites women, invites people of different race and background. And I think business leaders will get to a point that they will understand that and they will embrace that. And this whole notion of putting people in boxes eventually will go away. That would be my ideal world, where we don't have to put people in any box,

• 1:06:35Speaker 02

  a woman, or a man, or a, you know, African American, or a gay, or I don't know why we create so many labels. We're just humans.

• 1:06:45Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, I love the way you run the organization. Did you have any mentors or anybody, you know, role models that you looked up to, Anusha, that really shaped your life here?

• 1:06:58Speaker 02

  Not people that I worked with. As a kid, my idol was Albert Einstein. I read about how he came up with the theory of relativity. And to me, that was mind-boggling. How could someone sit in a, you know, small office, patent office, and imagine how the universe functions? And imagine it so differently than what was believed to be the way the world works? And the fact that you can have such strong imagination and be able to just see things like that in your mind and then try to prove it, to me was that's what I wanted to do. I want to go beyond what's in front of my eyes

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  to be able to see and imagine things and then go prove them or go build them. And that was my fascination and why I so strongly believe in this magical gift we have, which is the gift of imagination. But in terms of mentor, as I said, the way I sort of try to shape my leadership style is around what I liked from other leaders around me and what I disliked and build on that. Very human-centric type of approach, not textbook approach.

• 1:08:18Peter Diamandis?

  Let's turn to Xprize. We've launched $300 million in prizes. You really have done an extraordinary job in in building the structure for growth going forward.

• 1:08:32Peter Diamandis?

  Give everybody a quick overview of like, what does the X Prize do at its fundamental? If they haven't heard about the X Prize, how would you describe it?

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  So I I describe it through actually why I was drawn to it. So X Prize launches massive competitions to really focus the world's attention on a problem that has been left unsolved and is important to humanity. And then incentivizes the best minds from all over the globe to focus on solving it. And the way we incentivize them to really break down with very clear objectives, how you would solve this, so demonstrate these three things. Go 200 kilometers, do it twice within two weeks, the way you described it. So very clear objectives that people can get wrap their mind around.

• 1:09:23Speaker 02

  Okay, I need to build this, that, this, A, B, and C. And this way, they they are, you know, excited and and they come together and form teams to build what we want because we only award the winners once they build and demonstrate that they've accomplished what we we asked them to accomplish. So it's very different than some of the awards and prizes that awarded our ideas or past work. This is very future forward looking. And at the core, the thing that really draws me to X Prize is the fact that our our mission is to build a hopeful, abundant future for everyone. And and the world needs that.

• 1:10:04Speaker 02

  And and that's what we try to do with accelerating innovation and breakthroughs and solving the world's problem. We are driving the world toward this vision of an abundant and and hopeful future for everyone.

• 1:10:18Peter Diamandis?

  Do you do you think that X Prize guy sets?

• 1:10:23Peter Diamandis?

  Big enough challenges?

• 1:10:26Peter Diamandis?

  Do you know, how do you think about this? Because I I'm always, you know, saying, is that going to happen anyway? Or is this going to be a big enough prize? And, you know, should we be going more into into, you know, the area of crazy, so to speak? You know, where do we balance between an incremental prize and a prize that's so crazy that it will never get won? I mean, these are the things, you know, I think about. And you have to run an organization, you know? I just have the I have the luxury of being chairman and throwing ideas over the transom to you.

• 1:11:01Speaker 02

  So it's a really good question and a question that we ask ourselves, as you know, you ask yourself and as a team, leadership team, we ask ourselves too. And in the past, we've been very opportunistic to find that intersection of an idea that there's enough interest from a sponsor to actually help us launch it. Because we can come up with a lot of crazy ideas and people will tell us, you're crazy and we won't be able to get it off the ground. So we have to have a different approach, which we're working on, which is the next phase of X Prize. But today, the way I think, when I look at the world, there's so many immediate problems

• 1:11:40Speaker 02

  that we can't just focus on crazies without understanding that people have shorter termies. And again, short term for X Prize is not next year or the year after. It's like a five year horizon, five to 10 year horizon is short term for us. And our long term is always looking at, you know, 20, 25 years, 30 years into the future. So I think we need to balance both and and we need to have a good mix of very challenging prizes where we probably won't have to set a time limit that you have to win by this time. And that will basically allow teams to work on their own.

• 1:12:22Speaker 02

  Uh, over a long period of time and eventually get there. And then there are some immediate issues around climate, energy, biodiversity, health, that requires still um big risks and big steps. And no one else is doing, and X Prize can accelerate those breakthroughs. And I think that's also very important for us to do so. I think we need to have a good mix of both.

• 1:12:47Peter Diamandis?

  So any favorites that, you know, uh, of your X Prize children? Like, you know, what, and I'm curious if, if you've like, any of the X Prizes that we've launched that you've said, man, that's, that just isn't gonna happen? Or, uh, you know, or anyone's that you're like, wow, that's amazing?

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love all of our X Prizes, but I'm a techie, I'm a geek. Um, so I definitely love our avatar competition. Uh, and it's a favorite of mine.

• 1:13:16Peter Diamandis?

  So tell people what, what do you have to do to win this avatar? This all nippon Airways A and A avatar X Prize?

• 1:13:23Speaker 02

  The part that I love is that the actual prize initially was like, they were, they were thinking of, is it possible to build a transportation like the one you see on Star Trek?

• 1:13:33Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, quantum teleportation.

• 1:13:35Speaker 02

  Quantum teleportation, yeah, that, that's what I really wanted to, but, uh, but we had to see what can be done in the span of ten to, to, to fifteen years. And um, so it ended up being an avatar competition where you're not, you know, dematerializing yourself, but you are trans uh, you know, transferring your senses, uh, your actions, your, all of your um emotions through an avatar uh to a remote location. And it would feel as if you're there and taking those steps and actions and, uh, and feeling like you're there actually. So it was a um, bringing a lot of different technologies together and integrating them in,

• 1:14:19Speaker 02

  and advancing them in a way that will give that sense of. Being in a different location without physically dislocating yourself. So it's haptics, AR, VR, AI, robotics, vision systems, all of it coming together and building an avatar. And then you will have a suit that you wear and put on your goggles and the suit and the gloves or whatever. And then you would feel like wherever your avatar is, you would feel it's there and you would be able to pick things up and sense things and move around like you were physically there.

• 1:15:01Peter Diamandis?

  Nice. You and I were in Israel for the attempted landing of the Israeli Google Lunar X Prize team. So this was an interesting one, right? We had challenged, gotten Google to put up $30 million for the first team who could land on the moon, send back photos, videos, rove and send back more photos and videos. And the competition ran out of time.

• 1:15:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. That was one of our audacious competitions to ask a team to actually build a system and launch it and land on the moon. That was a tall order, but many teams attempted. I mean, I was really encouraged by the number of teams from different countries who actually built hardware and they were trying to negotiate catching a ride on someone's rocket to get to the moon. But we were in Israel and one of our team, Space IL, who continued their work even past the expiration of the competition, announced that they're going to make an attempt.

• 1:16:10Speaker 02

  And the part I loved that when they launched, they actually had the little card that they were going to use to show that they've launched and how close they get to the moon. And they had the X Prize on it because the team, I remember the team members were young kids when we had an Sari X Prize and they were inspired and their interest in space was picked because of that prize. And then they became a team competing in our Google Lunar X Prize. So we had, you know, shaped their lives and their...

• 1:16:40Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, they sent us a photograph of a selfie taken by the spacecraft in its trans lunar injection. And so the moon is behind the spacecraft and the photo shows the XPRIZE logo in the foreground with the moon. That was amazing. I love that.

• 1:16:56Speaker 02

  That was amazing. And just being there and hearing their stories and the excitement they had created in their community, the kids that were looking at them like they were heroes because we always call our teams our heroes. But now they were the heroes of the nation. They were a small team of young entrepreneurs landing in lunar land. And they almost made it there. They were like this close.

• 1:17:22Peter Diamandis?

  They did land. It just with a high velocity impact. Yeah, we're in Israel at mission control and it's just, it's just crowded. You and I in mission control along with, you know, we had the president of the country was there and the head of their of their space program was there. And they're in orbit around the moon, which was a big accomplishment in itself, getting into lunar orbit. And they hit the the engines to break and they're coming down. And nothing hardware, it's a software glitch. Damn software. And they unfortunately didn't do a soft landing. So close.

• 1:18:05Peter Diamandis?

  And I think they're funded to go again.

• 1:18:08Speaker 02

  They're funded to go again. And the best part was many of the teams who didn't even go that far. They all have received contracts from different space agencies because they all had a lot of innovation. So that's what we do at XPRIZE, even if even our failures are big successes because we advance technology. We create innovative approaches to things that have not changed for, you know, decades. So that's the beauty of XPRIZE competitions.

• 1:18:39Peter Diamandis?

  Hey, everybody. This is Peter. A quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world. Is the only real news out there worth consuming? I don't watch the crisis news network. I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural net, the way I see the world, by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week, I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity,

• 1:19:22Peter Diamandis?

  age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of news you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to dmandis.com backslash blog and learn more. Now, back to the episode. How would you define a moonshot mindset, Anusha? You know, if you were to say that some of the most successful people, entrepreneurs on the planet have a moonshot mindset, what is that? What does it take to have a moonshot mindset?

• 1:20:02Speaker 02

  I think you have to start with a clean sheet of paper and then start from the end point, the destination, and push yourself to think about, what do I want to see? What is it that I want to build? If I had no limitation, whether it's money, resources, engineering, technology, nothing. If the world was perfect and I could stab my finger and create something, what would that thing look like? And once you have that vision, then you can step back and figure out how to get there and how to build it. Because a lot of people start with something that's there and how they can improve it. And you will never end up in a moonshot

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  if you're starting by trying to improve something. But if you look at a problem or something that's, you know, just you want to build and start with the end in mind and envision it without any limitation, I think it will. Ultimately end up in a moonshot thinking. It's a practice, I think, I love sometimes when you get there through conversation. Because if you get just two or three crazy people around and you start throwing ideas there and then someone say, what if this and what if that? So another thing about moonshot is I don't think you sit there in a room by yourself and create your moonshot. You come up with an idea.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  In order to make it into moonshot, you need to bounce it by a few crazy people around you.

• 1:21:32Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I agree with you. It's in conversation. I would say sometimes it could be in conversation with the author of a book. Right? So, uh, reading a book and hearing ideas and having that rattle in your brain. So for me, the original Ansari X Prize came out of a reading of the Spirit of St. Louis that Greg Marinac gave me and then calling a few people like Byron Lichtenberg and, uh, and Jim, uh, Jim Burke and Greg, uh, and then asking them what they thought of the idea and when they told me it was a crazy idea, I said, good.

• 1:22:06Peter Diamandis?

  It's like, you know, and I think that's an interesting point, right? Because, uh, if you go with your moonshot idea and you bounce it off of people and they tell you it's a crazy idea, it'll never work, uh, how do you deal with that?

• 1:22:24Speaker 02

  I think you're asking the wrong person because I was always told, anything I wanted to do, I was told, nice, but you can't do that. I said, I'm gonna go to space and nobody believed me. So, uh, I, I don't pay attention, whether it's moonshots or other things. I live my life without caring what other people think. It just has to sit right and be right with me inside my heart, something I wanna do. And then, you know, I say, well, even if it's crazy, I'll try it and I will never have regrets because I know I tried it and then I failed at it. But if I never try it, one, I don't know if I will make it and two, I will always wonder, what if I did it?

• 1:23:04Peter Diamandis?

  Let me ask you, you know, why, why would you say moonshots matter? You know, are we taking enough, are entrepreneurs taking enough moonshots? Are countries, are philanthropists taking enough moonshots? And why do they matter?

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  I don't think we are taking enough moonshots. And it matters because that's how we make fundamental change in society. And if we learn one thing with the pandemic is change happens. Nobody's safe. You can't live in safety. Whether you like it or not. So to me, when you take the chance, when you do something, at least you control or not control, but you at least predict the change a little bit. And you, you know, you decided to take the chance. So you have, you feel at least some agency in the change that's happening to your life because you chose to go in that direction, take that path.

• 1:23:59Speaker 02

  So big changes in society happens through moonshots. I think nothing that has really transformed societies in a positive way was done with just incremental thinking. So moonshot definitely matters. And, and I think it's a shame, I don't see people with means taking moonshots. It's usually people who don't have much to lose, so they take bigger chances. And, and to me, it's, it's good and it's always, you need to have that. But if you mix that with people who have lots of capital to invest in something, where

• 1:24:43Speaker 02

  a 1% of that capital can really help drive moonshots, it's a shame that they can't take.

• 1:24:51Peter Diamandis?

  You're hitting on a pet peeve. I mean, there's so many individuals who've got 50 or 100 billion dollars in money. Like, what are you going to do with that money? Have you not figured out you can't take it with you? And if you leave it to your kids, you're going to destroy their lives. So what are you going to do with it? And, you know, It really does drive me nuts. There's a few people, you know, Elon's been taking big bets despite, let's put Twitter aside for the moment. And, you know, Marc Benioff has done incredible job, Eric Schmidt's done, but there's a lot of just money sitting on the sidelines, just accumulating. Why do you think that is? Why are, why are, you

• 1:25:32Peter Diamandis?

  know, world billionaires really being quite conservative and quiet? Is there like, something happened when you get, you know, three commas?

• 1:25:42Speaker 02

  I think it's the scarcity mindset that Peter you talk about because they're always thinking that I may lose it. So if you're thinking that I may lose it, that you continuously trying to protect it, then nothing is enough because you could lose it. And, and guess what? Things happen in the world that you may lose it anyway. So why don't you spend at least a fraction of it?

• 1:26:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. So if you're, if you're a few billionaires listening to this conversation, you know, take just one of your billion and, and launch 10, 100 million dollar X prizes. And I guarantee you, we will do really a lot of great work with the capital you put forward.

• 1:26:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. And we do. I mean, we have 26 years of experience to show how we bring 10 to 30 times the money invested in a prize in terms of investment in ideas and innovation in that field. So to me, if you want to have an impact in the world, if you want to leave a legacy, what better leverage for your philanthropic dollar than

• 1:26:43Peter Diamandis?

  And it's fun.

• 1:26:44Speaker 02

  And it's fun. It's definitely fun.

• 1:26:47Peter Diamandis?

  I mean, you had fun as the, as the benefactrics of the Ansari X Prize, yes?

• 1:26:52Speaker 02

  I loved every moment of it. I loved the board meetings. I loved the visioneering session. I absolutely loved the visioneering events and it was not a chore to go to any of these meetings. It was like, I couldn't wait until the next one next year.

• 1:27:06Peter Diamandis?

  My theory about why billionaires don't fund this, you don't have to be a billionaire. If you're a centimillionaire and you want to put up a $10 million prize. That's aligned with our vision. Happy to have the conversation, but I think I think there are two things I think about. One is that they that and I've told this to Steve Forbes and Kip Forbes and the Forbes family. I think that the Forbes list gamifies wealth retention. And so I don't want to drop from number thirteen to number forty-three by giving away a few billion dollars. And, you know, we need a countervailing force here. We need the equivalent of the the, you know, the Forbes contribution list that has them raise up the ranking there. That's one reason.

• 1:27:49Peter Diamandis?

  The reason I think is that when you get to that point of wealth,

• 1:27:56Peter Diamandis?

  you like directing where the money goes. I think you like saying, no, let's use that design for a rocket ship and I'm going to invest in this individual versus letting, you know, the crowd compete against each other. Any other reasons why?

• 1:28:12Speaker 02

  Even that, I mean, for me was the that last point, it was the opposite because I was an entrepreneur and I always looked at putting money in building things that I directed. But then I also was fully aware that I would go hire a team, tell them the designs, what we wanted to build and you know, wait three or four years or longer and usually it would cost more and I would not end up with what I wanted exactly. But, uh, you know, the big appeal of the competition to me was that I will put my design out there of what we want the people, the teams to build. And I don't pay anything until

• 1:28:52Speaker 02

  they actually build it and show that it works. I mean, as an entrepreneur, what better way to innovate? You know, to build something you you want to build is ask everyone, the crowd source it to the entire world and ask them to build it for you without paying them. And then someone else pays them to build it for you and you only pay up to the winning team to the best design. That to me like it's no brainer. And if you want to have an impact in the world, you know, just creating that many different innovation and companies out there, that's the best legacy you can leave. I I tell you, I I went to space so people know I'm an astronaut, so usually that's an attraction. But when I go speak at universities, the students who come up to me.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  Many of them were maybe in high school or even younger during Ansari X Prize. And they were inspired by that idea and they ended up going to aerospace engineering or taking, you know, a field of interest in, in, in space because before that, they, they never heard of space in any exciting way. They never thought that there will be a path for them. And all of a sudden, we created the opportunity and they're like, oh, I can be part of this whole new marketplace, a whole new set of jobs that are opening up. And I don't need to just think about working for NASA, which would be a limited opportunity.

• 1:30:20Speaker 02

  So it really has driven a lot of people in a field that they wouldn't go study in. And, and they're excited and they're, they come to me and thank me for sponsoring it. And I get that more than, oh, you're an astronaut. So what better legacy?

• 1:30:35Peter Diamandis?

  I want to thank you too, Anusha. I mean, I would have been up the proverbial creek without a paddle had you guys not stepped up. I mean, I had, I remember before, before we announced you as the, as a sponsor, I would have teams calling me up, you know, all through the week saying, do you have the money yet? I'm building our spaceships. Do you have the 10 million? No, I don't, but trust me, I will find, I'll find it. Someone out there has to be intelligent enough to do this. So was it worth it? Was it worth putting up the money for the prize?

• 1:31:03Speaker 02

  Oh, my God, every penny and more. I, I'm so happy we were the lucky ones to be the sponsors of this prize. I look out there now and this whole industry that has been built around space, I truly believe, and I know there has been even scientific papers written that trace it back to that, you know, that pivotal moment of the competition and making it this paradigm shift in people's mind, changing mindset.

• 1:31:36Speaker 02

  That it is possible that, yes, entrepreneurs can build spaceship and go to space. And I think that was the pivotal moment, just like, you know, the your inspiration, the the spirit of San Luis. There was that pivotal moment for aviation. X Prize was a pivotal moment for the this whole new age of space and commercial space exploration. I mean, people are having conferences, space investment conferences. Nobody would invest a penny when we launched the competition in space.

• 1:32:05Peter Diamandis?

  The old adage was the best way to become a millionaire in space was to start as a billionaire. And it was it was so true. It was like, you know, the only way you can go raise money from somebody is if they had not invested in space before because they would have lost it all. So at the end of this podcast, I ask every guest a question, which is the following. And I'm going to ask you, because I think it's beautifully self self referential. If if I could snap my fingers and and fund and launch any X Prize you want, what would be a a grand challenge, a problem that that you would want solved? Do you have an do you have a passion or favorite X Prize out there?

• 1:32:47Speaker 02

  I have several. It's such a hard question.

• 1:32:50Peter Diamandis?

  All right, well, I will accept more than one entry.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  OK, so one is definitely space related, and it's a very futuristic. It's one of those crazy ones.

• 1:32:59Peter Diamandis?

  OK, I love it.

• 1:33:00Speaker 02

  I I space is big, and I want to travel fast and go far. So I want a different type of engine. I want a warp engine or something close to it that allows us to travel much faster and go further. That's one.

• 1:33:15Peter Diamandis?

  So you want faster than light speed or do you want approaching light speed?

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  I'm happy with the fraction of light speed, but at least faster.

• 1:33:24Peter Diamandis?

  You're open to sublight, but but something else, like where do you want to get by when?

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  Um.

• 1:33:31Peter Diamandis?

  Like, do you want a couple of day travel to Mars? Do you want to go?

• 1:33:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:35Peter Diamandis?

  That would be a good speed for you?

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  That would be good speed for me.

• 1:33:39Peter Diamandis?

  Okay.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:33:40Peter Diamandis?

  So, and then sorry, drive.

• 1:33:41Speaker 02

  A weekend on Mars would be great. But other than that, the other two things, and one, I don't know if there is an X Prize in it, but it's something I love to do.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  One that I know there is an X Prize is I want to find a solution for abundant, sustainable, clean, almost free energy. Because I think if we have access to that, so many problems and everything can be solved. So that's one. And my last one.

• 1:34:17Peter Diamandis?

  Let's double click on that one.

• 1:34:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:34:20Peter Diamandis?

  So, almost free, abundant, sustainable, clean energy. And, but we're talking about going beyond solar and wind, yes?

• 1:34:31Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:34:31Peter Diamandis?

  So, in other words, it's easy and it's sort of can be go anywhere. So, this sounds like conversations you and I have had with a few individuals out there in the cold fusion zero-point energy. Is that, is that an area of passion?

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, if it's cold fusion and can be done, yes. If not, is there another way? But, but I think, you know, whether it's food, water, you know, circular economy, anything.

• 1:35:04Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, energy tips everything, right? So, if you have abundant energy, you have abundant clean water, you can desalinate anything, pull water out of the atmosphere. And then, half the disease burden of planet Earth is due to unclean drinking water. So, energy tips, water and medicine, health and so forth.

• 1:35:21Speaker 02

  Everything. The last thing is, I have a deep passion for empowering young people.

• 1:35:28Speaker 02

  And I want to find a really strong way to give young people a voice, especially in the geopolitical situation that we live in. Because I think their voice will bring sanity and balance in the world versus leaving it to power-hungry politicians that live all over the globe now.

• 1:35:51Peter Diamandis?

  I love that, and I agree there's a level of purity and hope that comes with those voices. What age group, if you were going to empower them, what age group would you focus in on?

• 1:36:06Speaker 02

  I would focus on probably 15, 16 to 25.

• 1:36:13Peter Diamandis?

  You know, I've often thought, I've had conversations when I was in Dubai, other parts in the world, who often thought that having a competition to send the youngest people into space would literally put them on a pedestal to be able to speak to the passions of making the world a better place. So, you know, it's how do you elevate them? But how do, how does their voices get heard around the world?

• 1:36:43Speaker 02

  Because they're so smart and they have access to so much information. They're much more capable than when I was their age. And they can do so much, but they're not taken seriously. They're not invited and involved in a lot of decision-making because we think they're kids. And they're much more on than we believe they are. And we need to empower them and give them the, an opportunity to make their voices heard and acted on, not just hear their voices. Because we can also put them, you know, behind podiums and they can talk and then we walk away and do whatever we were doing before.

• 1:37:23Speaker 02

  But really empowering, empowering them in having a voice that will be actioned.

• 1:37:30Peter Diamandis?

  You know, we talk about in X Prize, our global visioneering mechanism of Uh sourcing from the experts out there which X prizes we should go out after. I wonder if we should have a category of it where we ask uh fifteen to twenty five year olds what they think we should be going after independently of the traditional, you know, experts, which sounds like a four letter word to me sometimes.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  Absolutely. We're bringing a lot of interns into our conversations and and hope to build a strong youth program uh and continue to build it up. But I remember at visioneering when our benefactors would bring their young uh

• 1:38:13Peter Diamandis?

  The kids, yeah.

• 1:38:14Speaker 02

  Kids. They loved it. They they had a blast.

• 1:38:17Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah. Well, Anusha Ansari, Dr. Anusha Ansari, we have a few honorary degrees that have come your way. Um, allow me to say from my heart of hearts, uh, thank you for being in my life. Thank you for stepping up uh and uh underwriting the Ansari X Prize. Equally important, thank you for coming back to the mothership and and leading us and being my partner uh in in uh in creating change in the world, to go back to your patch design.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  Thank you, Peter. You have been a great influence in my life. You have a very strong gravitational field and you've changed the trajectory of my life for good and I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

• 1:39:01Peter Diamandis?

  Thank you, Anusha. Have a beautiful day.

• 1:39:02Speaker 02

  Thank you, too.

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

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