The Simplest Way To Make $1M In 2026

Get Shaan's 4 money rules that took him from broke to $25M by 30: https://clickhubspot.com/sfmc Episode 804: Sam Parr ( https://x.com/theSamParr ) and Shaan Puri ( https://x.com/ShaanVP ) team up with the TBPN boys John Coogan ( https://x.com/johncoogan ) and Jordi Hays ( https://x.com/jordihays ) to break down the companies that could make you a millionaire as an employee. — Show Notes: (0:00) How to make $1,000,000 (5:05) Zuru (12:47) Varda Space Industries (19:33) Suno (28:19) TrueMed (37:32) HubSpot (45:13) SemiAnalysis (52:32) Harvey (1:00:01) SendCutSent (1:04:55) Column — Links: • ZURU - https://zurutoys.com/ • Varda - ​​https://www.varda.com/ • Suno - https://suno.com/ • TrueMed - https://www.truemed.com/ • HubSpot - https://www.hubspot.com/ • SemiAnalysis - https://semianalysis.com/ • Harvey - https://www.harvey.ai/ • SendCutSend - https://sendcutsend.com/ • Column - https://column.com/ • TBPN - https://www.youtube.com/@TBPNLive — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: • Shaan's weekly email - https://www.shaanpuri.com • Visit https://www.somewhere.com/mfm to hire worldwide talent like Shaan and get $500 off for being an MFM listener. Hire developers, assistants, marketing pros, sales teams and more for 80% less than US equivalents. • Mercury - Need a bank for your company? Go check out Mercury (mercury.com). Shaan uses it for all of his companies! Mercury is a financial technology company, not an FDIC-insured bank. Banking services provided by Choice Financial Group, Column, N. A., and Evolve Bank & Trust, Members FDIC • I run all my newsletters on Beehiiv and you should too + we're giving away $10k to our favorite newsletter, check it out: beehiiv.com/mfm-challenge — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth • Sam’s List - http://samslist.co/ My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by HubSpot Media // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano /

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Shaan Puri?

  We have this podcast called My First Million, where we're coming with all these complicated schemes of how somebody can make their first million. Meanwhile, in their relationship, Sarah made her first million before Sam with the simplest scheme of all.

• 0:19Shaan Puri?

  Okay, so we invited our buddies from TBPN, John and Jordy, here to do one of our favorite episodes that we do every year called Sarah's List. And it's called Sarah's List in honor of the queen herself, Sam's wife, Sarah. You know, it's a classic story, really. She just joined a great company that was clearly already great as like employee 3,000. And the math was like this. She got a job at Airbnb and I think it was, you know, her numbers aside, the general math is you get a job and they'll offer you maybe like a 40 or 50K a year stock package in addition to your salary. So you get your salary, you get your healthcare, they got a kitchen where they're serving your lunch, they got oat milk in the fridge.

• 1:01Shaan Puri?

  So you're not sacrificing anything. She didn't have to come up with the idea of Airbnb. She joined it. She wasn't the first employee grinding like crazy. She was employee 3,000. But that stock package, which over a four-year period is, you know, you're granted about $200,000 for the stock, five Xed. And she made a million bucks before either me or Sam. And so we kind of wanted to honor the brilliance that is joining companies that are already clear winners, especially in tech, because the winners can run so far. And so every, every few years, me and Sam have done this where we come up with our list. We call it Sarah's List, which is the 10 companies you would join right now. Because as a person, your time is essentially your investment, right? You're, when you join a company, that's an act of an investment.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  It's funny because I know some investors who did, who made an investment in that unicorn round and they had the exact same logic. They were like complete parlay market fit, obvious runner, like just put, just pile money into this like easy investment and then it worked.

• 1:57Sam Parr?

  She joined, I think at the 18 million dollar valuation, something like that.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:01Sam Parr?

  And then COVID happened and we were like, well, shit, that was a good idea. It sucks it didn't work. And then, uh, obviously everything changed in six months. And then I think it IPO'd around a hundred billion dollars. And you guys remember that famous interview with Brian Chesky where he's told on air, he's like, the share price is this and it's worth a hundred billion dollars. He's like, I, I, I didn't know that until just now because back then in 2019 or 18, when it was 18 million dollars, we were like, This could be worth like $30 billion. Like, you know, like

• 2:32Speaker 03

  A queen 2X.

• 2:34Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like if everything works. And so anyway, that was her story and it worked out great because she worked a normal amount, had a great maternity, paternity package, had great benefits, all that stuff. And so we've done this for a few years, but you want to, you know, something we've actually haven't actually done this in like 18 months because it's been so hard these last 20 or 24 months with everything going on with AI. And so you guys are pretty cool to have because I think you'll know a lot more about some of the latest and greatest.

• 3:01Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, we wanted you guys on because not only, not only do you guys are you guys super smart, but you guys, part of your show is you're talking to the CEOs of these companies in these like 15 minute interviews every single day. And so you're getting a good sense for kind of like who's, who's doing well, who do you believe, what, what companies excite you? So we wanted to hear what you guys have. By the way, last time, Sam, I went back and checked. I think of the 10 companies that we did in our last round, which was something like 18 months ago. Or two, two, you know, 18 months, two years ago, something like that. I think we got six out of 10 that are like already either there or pacing to be there. So for example, like when we did OpenAI and we were laughing, we were like, uh, hey, here's this shocker. OpenAI was $100 billion valuation at the time.

• 3:44Shaan Puri?

  It's now like, you know, close to 800 billion now. And so, and we even said like, look, there's no bonus points for difficulty in life and the game of business. Like sometimes the best companies are just hidden in plain sight. They're right in front of you. And so I think we've done pretty well.

• 3:57Sam Parr?

  The biggest one was, uh, was Androl. We did Androl in 21, I think. And that was 4 billion at the time. And I think it's 90 or 50, I don't remember.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  And a lot of those companies should stay on the list, honestly. I think, you know, even, even if you just done Androl last year, like the valuation has increased so much that it still makes sense to include in the list.

• 4:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, the, the biggest mistake that people make is not going with an obvious winner because it's already in the multiple billions and it just looks like, okay, what, what's the potential upside from here? And that's just been wrong so many times in the last 10 years.

• 4:33Sam Parr?

  Do you guys ever take, um, shares or equity instead of, uh, dollars for advertising?

• 4:39Speaker 03

  Uh, we, we have, but, uh, it's more, just, just over the last year, we're a super young business and, uh, it's made sense to, to optimize more

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Cash money.

• 4:49Speaker 03

  For like actual real revenue. John and I, uh,

• 4:53Shaan Puri?

  The suits don't buy themselves.

• 4:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:57Sam Parr?

  But, but yeah. Landlord, don't take monopoly money. I saw, uh, wait, let me tell you one quick story, Sean. I saw, I was at Ram's office. And I saw, um, the pitch that Jordy or I think both you guys, both you guys sent. And I saw one line and, and Eric said that Jordy wrote it or something like that. Where he was like, um, the, the, the beginning of the pitch, it said, if you advertise with us, you'll get so big that you're going to be dragged in front of Congress because they're going to accuse you of having a monopoly. I think this was John's line. This was yours, right? Yeah.

• 5:31Shaan Puri?

  Uh, that's so good. There's a, I don't know if you guys are always fans of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but the, the Dennis system, Dennis has this thing where he's basically talks about the implication.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:41Shaan Puri?

  And so he's like, it's not, it's not that they're in danger, but it's the, it's the implication of danger. And, uh, there's this famous line in advertising that, uh, Craig Clemens told us when he was on the podcast. And he, he talked about how there was this one, um, I don't know if it was a supplement or like a perfume or something like that. That was, was having trouble selling and then they switched the copywriting to say, you know, the, the founder swears, she swears that this does not contain any illegal stimulants. And it's like, she swears, it just, there's nothing illegal in this. It's just that damn good. And it's the implication that works.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's so funny because yeah, we want to win super hard with our, with our sponsors. And like the hardest you can win in tech is like, you know, that Mark Zuckerberg moment when he goes on Capitol Hill. And it's like, okay, wow. He's actually at that level that no one's been at. Thank you, Senator. We run ads.

• 6:34Sam Parr?

  Right. That's like with my fitness campaign. No one's accusing me of taking anything yet, which means, uh, it's not working.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:42Sam Parr?

  Why does everybody think I'm all natty?

• 6:49Sam Parr?

  That's hilarious.

• 6:52Shaan Puri?

  I've talked before about the way that I know how to make money, about how to build a money-making skill, about how to leverage your time and energy. And the team at HubSpot actually went through the video where I explained all that and turned it into a free downloadable cheat sheet on my four rules of how to make money. Now, this is not, you know, give it to quick advice. It's just core principles, foundational principles about building wealth. Things that I wish I knew when I was, you know, just getting started. And so if you want to download it, it's in the description below. It's totally free. You can go get it. Thanks to the folks at HubSpot for doing the research, making this document and making it available to all you guys. All right. Back to this episode.

• 7:25Shaan Puri?

  Uh, all right. So let's jump in. Uh, we each have roughly three each. We're gonna try to get 12, maybe some bonus, some honorable mentions. Cool. My first pick, this is a company you guys might not even know about. Mm-hmm. Which I like. I like to surprise you, but I'm coming in strong here. Zuru Tech. Okay, Zuru Tech is a company that's based out of New Zealand. Mm. And they're the third biggest toy company in the world. So they make, if you've ever seen mini-brands, Sam's a big mini, mini food collector. He likes the little mini toys. Uh, they make some of the most popular toys in the world. The, the bunch of balloons where you can fill up 30 water balloons at once, you know, that type of stuff. Yeah. So the founder, Nick, came on the podcast. He's the wealthiest man in New Zealand.

• 8:07Shaan Puri?

  And his story is insane, like probably the craziest grind story I've ever heard. By the end of the episode, I told him, I go, I think you're the closest thing to Elon Musk that I've ever seen. Uh, people just don't know about you because you live on the other side of the world and you were in the toy industry. So kind of people overlook you. Um, so he's got a new company and his new company, uh, or it's actually based in there. It's, they're building homes with a factory. Basically, here's what you do. He's got a free, you know, it's like chat GPT. You just describe, you drop a pin where you're gonna put the home. It automatically, no matter where in the world, any country in the world, any city in the world, any neighborhood in the world, you put it, it automatically downloads all, it has all of the building codes and the permitting and the terrain. So it knows if you're on an incline, if there's a hill there or whatever, right?

• 8:52Shaan Puri?

  It has all of that already built in. And it's called Dreamcatcher. So you basically describe the home you want. You're like, oh, I want this like kind of minimalist, blah, blah, blah, 5,000 square feet, make it cool, blah, blah, blah. So you basically describe like chat GPT, the home you want. Mm-hmm. And it renders it all using like Unreal Engine. Uh, so it renders the whole thing in front of you. It creates like an AI video of like a home walkthrough for you, using kind of like a, you know, mid-journey type of thing. And then you literally like build the home, you click it, and he's got a factory in China. That's like the iPhone building factory, but it actually builds all of the subcomponents for this home. And it's insane. Like they went and bought like, uh, when the Palisades fire happened and people needed to sell their lots.

• 9:34Shaan Puri?

  They bought like eighty million dollars worth of lots in LA and he's building, he's basically gonna print these, I say print, just it's it's building with a robot. Yeah. Like fifty million dollar homes in LA. And so this guy, it was the most impressive demo I've ever seen, seeing the homes that they're building. And it's real, like this guy is, he's basically like, you know, manufacturing genius, him and his brother. Uh, they have huge factories in China to be able to do this stuff. And the crazy thing about homes is homes is a space that's really never been touched by, by definitely not AI, but really even most technology doesn't really go into construction and home construction. And when you're selling homes that are multimillion dollar homes, you don't have to sell that many of them to be doing billions in revenue. And so

• 10:19Shaan Puri?

  if there was one company that I could kind of empty the tank of my life savings into, I would be pouring it into this, which means it's a contender for Sarah's list for me. Love it.

• 10:28Speaker 03

  Great case. Did he talk at all about why previous attempts in this category haven't worked? Because there's been, there's been a number, there's kind of like a, I like this, uh, I like this bet because there's actually like a graveyard of Silicon Valley companies that have like made efforts.

• 10:47Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, cuz he's not a Silicon Valley company. He's a guy, uh, him and his brother have been basically been building factories in China for like the last twenty years. So they're a manufacturing powerhouse. So for example, they were in the toy space and they became the third largest toy company in the world. They do like over a billion dollars of pure profit a year just into the two brothers' pockets. Like it's crazy. Then they went into, uh, the diaper space. They're like, oh, you know what? Let's go compete in one of the most like difficult to compete with things against Procter and Gamble. And he built the fastest growing and now I think, I think it's, if it's not the number one, it's basically right up there with Huggies and Pampers now. Um, even though it's brand new, diapers company, uh, it's, you know, the selling in Target, Walmart like crazy, and they manufacture their own diapers.

• 11:28Shaan Puri?

  And the reason why was he found that in China, there was like a different style of diaper manufacturing, different materials. And he basically brought that to market, um, in the US. And so he built the largest that. Then they did the same thing in hair care. They did it with, they have the fastest growing brand on TikTok for hair care. And now they're doing it for homes. And so I think the big difference is like Elon, hardware is hard and most software founders, you know, go in for a rude awakening when they go into hardware, whereas these guys have been doing literally like not just hardware, but like the, the building of the factory is the hard part. The factory that makes the product is sort of secondary to it, but building an highly automated factory is the number one, one thing. And they've been building factories for a very, very long

• 12:09Shaan Puri?

  time. It's actually hilarious. When they went to China to start their toy company, they built like, he went there because he heard, oh, all the manufacturing happens in China. But what that usually means is you go find a manufacturer, you tell, you tell them what you want to make and they make it. He went to China, didn't realize that, like a naive mistake and built his own factory there, like on the side of a river. Like did it all from scratch because he didn't understand like, oh, when people say they manufacture in China, it doesn't mean they go manufacturing in China. They find an existing manufacturer. He missed that part and just went the hard way from the beginning.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  That's funny.

• 12:42Sam Parr?

  That's great. Sean, uh, sounds like, sounds like you don't like this guy at all.

• 12:47Shaan Puri?

  Did I say I'm a fan? I'm a fan of this guy.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  What do you guys think? Will this actually work is the bear case? Like what, unpack that a little bit.

• 12:55Shaan Puri?

  Well, the, the demo is so insane that you just have to ask the question like, is this like many AI products that demo well, but production sucks?

• 13:04Speaker 01

  Sure, sure, sure.

• 13:05Shaan Puri?

  And so basically the demo was so good, um, that, you know, you just kind of got to see a home first before you, you know, you fully believe.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, I would put tariffs as more of the bear case. Like if, if China, America relations degrade further, then it's going to be harder to get stuff across the border. It's going to get hard.

• 13:27Shaan Puri?

  Here's the craziest part of the whole thing. Um, I, you know, you try to find cost savings when you do stuff like whether you do it in China or you're using new technology. And so the question was, is it 10%? Uh, is it 20%? What, how much is it? It's basically like, like more than an order of magnitude. So it's more than 10 times cheaper to build the homes this way, uh, which I think is The kind of the exciting part because if you could build the cost of build if you can bring the cost of building down. You know, that's actually like very, very meaningful for like, I don't know, progress in the world.

• 13:55Sam Parr?

  But this breaks the whole point of the list. This is not sound. I don't want to work with a person that sounds like Elon.

• 14:00Shaan Puri?

  There was no caveat that said the founder is completely sane. I didn't. We didn't add that. We just said. You join a company that's already got a existing. These guys have a hugely successful business already. But it has a chance to five X because there's a, there's a pathway there. All right. That was my first company. Uh, let's switch to somebody else.

• 14:15Sam Parr?

  Yeah, let our guest go first.

• 14:17Shaan Puri?

  Let the guest go first. Let's be, be good.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  Okay, quick caveat. So, uh, we were under the impression that we had to be picking companies under a billion dollar valuation. It's a good kind of exercise, uh, and actually like understand that early stage today still means. Sub one billion, basically.

• 14:35Sam Parr?

  Jordy, are you carrying like a $5,000 handbag in that, in that photo?

• 14:40Speaker 03

  Uh, it's not, it's a duffel bag.

• 14:42Shaan Puri?

  Can we do the origin of this?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  Well, well, so, so, so the, I mean, the bit, the, the, you know, origin of TVPN is, uh. Other people have described it as, you know, uh, ESPN for tech and business. What's funny is that John and I do not watch any of the traditional American. Sports, football, basketball, baseball, et cetera.

• 15:06Speaker 01

  Anyway, first one, Varda Space Industries, helmed by none other than Delian Asperer-Hoff and Willbury. Former SpaceX, uh, valuation 726 million, but really like. One of those multi-decade projects that, uh, could have really, really large TAM, really, really large. Expectations.

• 15:29Shaan Puri?

  What do they do?

• 15:30Speaker 01

  So they manufacture things in space. So they do not build the rockets. They partner with SpaceX. To launch a capsule and then inside that capsule, they effectively have created a manufacturing. Environment where gravity is an off switch. And so for certain things, imagine you're trying to grow a crystal. Or you're trying to grow a drug or the heart tissue, or there's applications for, uh, uh, certain.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Types of fiber, they're doing a lot of bio biomedical work right now. And then there's also defense applications. If you can get things up into space and get them down, there's a whole bunch of interesting things you can do there. And so the company is maybe four or five years old at this point. Hundred and fifty employees based in Los Angeles. Obviously, you know, very hardworking environment, but especially with the new NASA administration. Things are moving much faster. SpaceX, there was a lot of uncertainty last year. They started landing the starships and launch costs are starting to tick down again. And so it gets easier and easier. And when they first put up their first capsule in space, this is the real question with a space company is like,

• 16:42Speaker 01

  how long will it take them to actually do something in space? It used to be five, 10 years. They got their first capsule up in just a few years. They're already on their fifth or sixth capsule. People stopped celebrating.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  They got it back.

• 16:54Speaker 01

  They got it back.

• 16:54Speaker 03

  A lot of space companies put stuff up into space, but that's kind of the end of the story. And so I think our, our kind of framework for Varda is like, if you get a group of ultra talented people together, ultra hardworking people together, that can develop the capability of simply putting stuff up in space and bringing it back down. It's going to have a really wide range of applications over the long run. What's the founder like?

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Will Bruy is like completely like super sharp, by the book SpaceX engineer background, who has been able to talk to big pharma CEOs and get them to sign up. And then Delian's, you know, Delian.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Delian, who's like, obviously quite a character, very, very loud, has, but the company in general has been very like anti-hype. So there's a lot of companies in space that are just hype businesses. They will get all the way to the public markets with, without having accomplished much, if anything at all.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:53Speaker 03

  And Varda has been, doesn't chase the hype. They weren't coming out this last year, having like a new pitch around data centers, just because that would have gotten them. And so for being a space company, they're extremely, I would say grounded, focused on developing capabilities that are going to be, like John said.

• 18:14Sam Parr?

  Uh, very valuable and a wide variety of applications.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  There's like one, it's a very difficult space, capital intensive. There are not a lot of, there are some, there are a decent amount of companies that are sending stuff up to space. There are many fewer that are bringing stuff back down. And it's, and it hasn't been a huge, hugely competitive space where there's like 10 players.

• 18:39Sam Parr?

  We, we had someone, Sean, on the pod, I think like last year, explain this company. And they went through this huge thing about why it was cool. And we were like, why do pharmaceutical companies need to make drugs in space? Like why, like we didn't, like they forgot to explain.

• 18:55Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, they didn't explain that part. They were like, oh, it's great because you can, like, you know.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  No, no, no. It's like a thousand times more expensive than doing on earth, but there's just specific chemicals, like very rare things. But, but again, you have to view this as, as, you know, multi-decade thing. If you believe in space, if you believe that, you know, launch costs are going to continue to fall, it's going to get cheaper and cheaper. Then there's like this interesting trend that you're on the frontier of. And the company's been very good at weathering storms, whether there's like some slight, you know, sell off in the market or the narrative changes. Like the, the company's well managed. And so if you can just keep getting through those and just always be the best space, the, the best company that like does stuff in space, basically like that's good.

• 19:37Shaan Puri?

  You know, I, I do like, uh, so I do like that you're riding the wave of basically like, is Elon going to get better at doing rockets?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:46Shaan Puri?

  And if he does, the cost per whatever, cost per gram to take something up into space is going to keep falling. And you just keep, you get to keep, your business keeps getting better.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:56Shaan Puri?

  The more hard work Elon does. I kind of like that in general as a, as a thesis.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  So last year, Blue Origin landed their heavy rocket. And so now there's actual, there's actually two companies. And so that means real pricing pressure, which is like very, very good.

• 20:11Shaan Puri?

  By the way, I was, this is, I have two tangents. Yeah. I was reading the Elon biography, which I'm late to, but I kinda like it. Cause you know, everybody's out on, everybody's done with it. And I'm the only guy, you know, still in there poking around. There's an amazing section, I don't know if you guys have read this, but it's about the tweets back and forth between Elon and Bezos. The sort of rival, the passive aggressive rivalry around the launch thing. Sam, I don't know, have you seen this? Well, there's more recent ones. Bezos just posted the tortoise. Tortoise. I'm the tortoise. He's going tortoise mode. He's going tortoise mode, slow and steady. Who's the passive aggressive one? Both of them. So first, so Blue Origin was like the first to do a reusable launch, which Elon wanted badly, right? But Blue Origin, but he was basically like, they didn't go up very high. Yep.

• 20:55Shaan Puri?

  And so he was just like, he's like, Bezos posts a picture, be like, oh my God, we did it. I'm standing next to one of the, perhaps the rarest item on earth, a reusable rocket. Or a reused rocket, a reused rocket. Fair. And he's saying basically, that's so rare, you never see a reused rocket. Yeah. And then Elon goes, congratulations, but perhaps not the rarest. Yeah. Because SpaceX has done that six times if we're counting suborbital hops. And then it was just like, kinda like your, your rocket doesn't go high enough. And then when Elon did it like a month later, Bezos was like, congratulations to Elon. A really excellent suborbital launch, one of the best suborbital launches. And Elon was like, fuck you dude, it was so high, but technically yes, was still suborbital.

• 21:39Shaan Puri?

  And they've been basically going back and forth with these like, congratulations, but, and I just kinda love it. I love it. I love the pettiness. Yeah.

• 21:49Shaan Puri?

  Today's episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses only use 20% of their data? That's like reading a book, but then tearing out four fifths of the pages. Point is, you miss a lot. And unless you're using HubSpot, the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business, the insights that are trapped in emails, call logs, transcripts, all that unstructured data makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. And so if you want to read the whole book, instead of just reading part of it, visit hubspot.com. All right, let's move on to the next one. What do we got?

• 22:17Speaker 01

  Back to you, I think.

• 22:19Shaan Puri?

  Okay, I'll do one. Okay, my next one is Suno. Okay, I've talked about Suno before. If you don't know, Suno is basically a app or a website you go to, and you can make music even if you've got no musical talent, right? So you can just go on there, describe the type of song you want. Maybe you bring your lyrics, maybe you don't. Maybe you just give it a vibe, and you basically are vibe coding music. It's amazing. I'm addicted to the app. I use it all the time. I've probably made, I don't know, 40 or 50 songs. I've burned tens of thousands of credits on this thing. I guess it's crazy how addictive it is, how fun it is to do. And I just think this company has a long way to run. So right now, valued at 2, 2.5 billion, something like that, they have 200 million in ARR. So it's not like an AI app that's like...

• 23:02Speaker 01

  300 million in ARR now.

• 23:03Shaan Puri?

  300 million. All right.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 23:06Shaan Puri?

  Breaking news, we got 300 million now already. And so I met the founder, you know, I really like kind of what they're all about.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:12Shaan Puri?

  And they, they also just struck a deal with a licensing company with a musical, music label, which is important. Basically, the, here's the upside, because I was like, okay, this is already at 2, 2.5 billion. Does this have that 5X potential? And I was doing some math, and it basically, SoundCloud has 40 million music creators. Okay, so that's 40 million people who, around the world, who actually have musical talent that are publishing on the platform. Suno is only at 2 million users on their platform. So they still, and that's, that's people who don't have to have the musical talent part, the skill. And so the, the market for a number of people who will make music that don't know how to make music is going to be something like 10, 20,

• 23:54Shaan Puri?

  possibly more than that, possibly 50X the number of actual musicians who create music. So I just think, I think this thing has an incredible long way to run. I would not be surprised if there were hundreds of millions of weekly active users of people who are making music on this thing. And when you do the math of what that turns into, because people are willing to pay, right? Like... Imagine not having to like practice or do music lessons or any of that shit. You just pay 15 bucks and boom, you're a musician, right? Like it's a kind of an amazing trade to make. So I think this thing has a long way to run. I think Suno becomes a $50 billion plus company. It'd be also a really fun company to join if you joined right now. Because you'd be doing something that's both on the frontier, but it's not like manufacturing in space. It's not like actual like rocket science. And you're just a part of culture. It's gonna become a big part of culture, which is always fun if you're gonna work.

• 24:39Sam Parr?

  What do you guys think about these companies that are you? We were laughing, I think we said they were launched two years ago and they're at 300 million in revenue. Does that have longevity?

• 24:47Shaan Puri?

  You have to ask a couple of questions. One is, is it a fad? Right? Do I think this is just like, is it like, I don't know, whatever? Dub smash or like, you know, one of these things where it's like, everyone's gonna try it once, like the yearbook photo thing. And then there's really no reason to come back in. I don't think this is a fad. I think people are gonna wanna keep creating stuff. The second thing is it's gonna have too much competition. And I do think that they're kind of on an island where all the big model companies are probably not going to. This isn't the kind of primary war front. And they have so many like bigger battles that they're fighting right now. I kind of think Suno is gonna go uncontested for a little while. Uh, longer where it's not the main thing that OpenAI or Anthropic is gonna try to roll out and make mainstream. And so I think by focusing and specializing, you know, they have a lot of other stuff built in.

• 25:30Shaan Puri?

  Like if you make the song, they have like an editor where you get the stems and you can actually like remix the song. And they have like a discovery platform, like there's a lot more depth that they can go into. So I think that why it would be around is because it's not in the crosshairs of all the, you know, the highest elo battle in the world, the genius battle, which is like, you know, what OpenAI and, you know, Grok and Anthropic are all doing.

• 25:52Sam Parr?

  What are the bros?

• 25:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think, I think what you're getting at is basically like Suno is the front door to AI music in the way that ChatGPT has been the front door to out large language models. That has a lot of value. I made, I made a pretty similar case to a friend who had worked in the music industry for the last decade. He's a, he's a real musician, you know, has gone on tour all over the world. He had the opportunity to join Suno at around the same valuation. And I said, you know, I think. Think like you've worked in the music industry your whole career. Where's the growth going to be in the industry over the next 10 years? It's going to be in AI, whether or not people like it. And I think what Suno's tapped into is the same thing that the vibe coding tools have tapped into,

• 26:38Speaker 03

  where billions of people have an idea for an app, but like very, very few people relatively can actually build an app. And now with vibe coding, anybody can build an app. Same thing with music. Everybody's had an idea for a song or could come up with an idea for a song that would, you know, create, even in the most simple way, you know, creating, we've heard stories from people that, you know, every single night they make a new bedtime song with their kids, right? To kind of like motivate the kids to, to settle down or go to sleep or whatever. And so there's so many magical moments. It's the kind of thing that can have these sort of viral moments where people like realize it's available, create all these songs, or there's like memes that can form.

• 27:19Speaker 03

  But it has this like, kind of like, I think, I think people will continue to come back to it. So I'm with you.

• 27:25Sam Parr?

  What happens to Spotify's market cap then?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Spotify's market cap should be resistant to this because it's a tool for creating music and music will be distributed on Spotify. And so Spotify never created an Ableton competitor or Fruity Loops competitor. They never sold guitars. They never sold any tools to, to create music. They might wind up launching some competitor, but I.

• 27:49Speaker 03

  Spotify is in kind of a tough spot if you think about it. If they, what, what, what would, what would all the biggest artists on, on Spotify? Think of Spotify coming out with an AI tool that is competing for listening time with those artists. So it's like, it's, they're kind of in a position where Spotify can't jump into this without infuriating a lot of the artists on the platform. So I, I think it's possible that Suno could eat into the listening time of Spotify. But it's hard to imagine a world where I subscribe to Suno and I don't. Subscribe.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  I would just see it similar to Sora and Instagram reels or VO3 from Google and YouTube shorts. Like, people will be scrolling these feeds. They, most people don't want any AI. Some people are okay with just like the best AI. And so they want one out of a hundred reels to be actually great, AI funny, inspired. And people on Spotify will want to listen to the hits and the songs that everyone knows. And then they might want to listen to that one breakout AI-generated song. But it's just gonna take one minute for whoever creates that banger on Suno to export it, upload it to Spotify, and Spotify will be able to instantly monetize it. So I wouldn't see it as like a major threat to Spotify.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  There's also some interesting like downside protection here that it just, if you, if you think about Suno at two and a half billion, who could possibly acquire them if they don't make it to escape velocity and like Spotify has the market cap, but also Amazon could put in Amazon Echoes. It could be an Apple thing. It could be a Google thing. It could be an OpenAI thing. Like, there's so many other companies that have the market cap and scale to just pick this up and make it a good outcome for everyone.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  The other, the other thing is, I know the industry, like the traditional music industry is using Suno, but they don't want to talk about it because it's still controversial. I heard, uh, I heard from a friend that, uh, their friend was a backup vocalist for different artists. So like a studio, uh, vocalist, they, their job would be to go into the, somebody would write a song. Their job would be to go into the studio and sing the song. And then that, that sample would be taken around to artists that would effectively like bid on it. And so the vocalist would like sing it in the style of one artist, sing it in the style of another artist to give people a feel for it.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  And they said that that person's revenue went from, uh, you know, humming along for the last, you know, 20 years and like effectively to zero. Uh, because you can now just generate any, you take the lyrics, you generate it in the style of any artist. And so the challenge for, for that individual in their career is nobody, people that don't hire backup, a backup, like a backup guitarist. Can go and tour with a band, right? Because people are there to see like the frontman or whatever. But a backup vocalist, there's not really like touring demand. Because imagine you get a ticket to your favorite artist and then there's just like someone else singing. You're like not really getting your money's worth.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  So certainly like already disrupting certain corners of the internet. And I think that part of what's holding Suno back right now is just that the main artists will not talk about it because they know they're going to get blowback. But that'll eventually flip.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Works, yeah.

• 31:04Sam Parr?

  All right, you guys want to do one?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Next pick. Yeah, let's move on to TruMed because I think it relates to Hone Health. Interestingly, we have a couple of other hard tech stuff. But TruMed is a fintech company founded by Justin Maers. I think we all know.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  Former guest to the show.

• 31:19Sam Parr?

  I think we all have a, well, I don't want to speak for you guys, but he's in the man crush category.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. He's a killer.

• 31:27Speaker 03

  Chad.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  So TruMed adds a compliant pay with HSA, Health Savings Account or FSA button to online checkouts by handling eligibility through embedded telehealth. So when you go to, whether it's peptides that are going to be popular or aid sleeps or supplements or whatever you're doing to improve your health, if you're going to do it online, there's an economic advantage, a tax savings from paying for it with pre-tax dollars through your HSA or FSA. And so TruMed is this like layer on all of that. So you don't have as much like individual trend risk like, oh, is protein more popular than creatine this month or this year?

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Like as long as health continues to be a trend, you're sort of like the rising tide.

• 32:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, this is like buying, like investing in an index fund for wellness, right? They're going to be taking a cut of a huge amount of the volume going towards wellness products in the US. We, I started a company called Rora with my friends Brian and Charlie and we're a happy TruMed customer. TruMed has a very meaningful take rate, a bigger take rate than a traditional kind of payment provider. But it's a great trade because you're able to sell incremental product because people are able to buy it in a tax advantage way. And I'm just like an incredibly firm believer in the entire mission of the company. I think that we know, we know that.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Running is going to increase your health span, increase your lifespan. You should be able to let people purchase products like this

• 33:06Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 33:07Speaker 03

  as a form of preventative treatment. So incredible founder, like very, very strong tailwinds and great experience as a customer.

• 33:20Sam Parr?

  What's your company, Joey?

• 33:22Speaker 03

  Rora, R O R R A dot com.

• 33:25Sam Parr?

  At the water?

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. Water filter.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  So Huberman, Andrew Huberman's kind of been an early partner there, which is awesome. And that was me.

• 33:35Sam Parr?

  I didn't know you helped start that.

• 33:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, so I stumbled into kind of the water crisis years ago at this point and started looking at, started looking at all the solutions in the category and kind of ultimately felt like there needed to be kind of like a Dyson type brand in the categories, a brand that was incredibly focused on R and D and making products in a variety of different form factors because you're constantly interacting with water in your day to day life, whether it's in your shower, bath, drinking water, whole home filters, et cetera. And yeah, the market is, was, was quite exciting.

• 34:19Speaker 03

  It was like something I was personally motivated by because my, my son had, kept getting eczema. I had like a six month old getting eczema and I was like trying to track down where, like why it was happening. And it ultimately was like tap water baths that we clocked. And so like solving that and then realizing there was an opportunity and partnered with Charlie and Brian to bring it to life. And they've absolutely crushed it.

• 34:45Sam Parr?

  Are you sort of, Joey, the, you know, I follow you online. I've followed your work for years before, I think even Party Round. Are you the design of the two, the design guy of the two? Because you seem like you've, you've had an eye for aesthetics like for a while.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would, I would generally say so. I mean, John, John has great taste and instinct around this stuff, but I've, I've just loved like advertising, marketing, product design. I've been obsessed with it since I was, since I was a boy, basically. I was super into like skateboarding and surfing and snowboarding growing up. And so I, I had this sort of like. I was trying to figure out from a very young age like why there was like a snowboard available for a hundred dollars, but I really wanted the one that was eight hundred dollars. And so kind of working backwards from that and understanding design and and brand and advertising and all these things. And so bringing that, I mean, that's the

• 35:44Speaker 03

  success of TBPN is due in part to our obsession with with brand, which is, I think, something that podcasts historically would think about. Okay, let's design our cover art.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  That was the first thing Sean told me when we launched Technology Brothers, the original podcast. I was like, you sent me a really nice message. You were like, I think this is going to work. I think this is the thing. You got to go full time on this. Do it, do it. And I was like, yeah, like, it seems like the numbers are pretty good. I was being very wonky. And you were like, no, no, no. Like, this is a brand that like, like, you've actually broken through and created something that feels it has feeling around it like brand. I was like, yeah, that's like a lot. That's almost all Jordy. I helped as much as I could with it. But just the idea to actually create this world and this brand, we had a lot of fun with.

• 36:28Speaker 03

  Yeah. And the funny, the thing that's addicting about media is you're doing like basically product development, but the feedback loops are so rapid.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  With Aurora, it's like, we have this idea to build a water filter company, but then the R and D process was like 18 months or something between like idea to actually shipping a product.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  And then with media, it's like idea to product like in like these really rapid, you know, hour long, 24 hour cycles. And that's like something that I think we love because we'll be sitting here, you know, we'll be sitting there on a Friday and be like, okay.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  We should have a stock ticker on the bottom.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Monday.

• 37:01Speaker 03

  Same day. Yeah. So.

• 37:03Sam Parr?

  Are you guys disciplined with sticking within your brand parameters? Or sometimes like, because that could be hard and require does require.

• 37:10Speaker 03

  No, I think, I think, I think it's got to constantly be, it's got to constantly be evolving. And I mean, look, look back to like the skate and surf and snowboard brands, like any brand that was just like stuck in their way and didn't kind of expand and evolve and and reflect culture, like ultimately just didn't make it, right? These are brands that now you could go back and buy and like bring back into the modern era. But yeah, it has to be flexible. I mean, the transition from being called Technology Brothers to TBPN was like a big moment for us. A lot of people would have said like, Technology Brothers is a great brand. We had already kind of like saturated. Acts at the time, so we were small, but people knew about us.

• 37:53Speaker 03

  And so we knew that that was going to be necessary to evolve into becoming the kind of media company that we wanted to be. But yeah, I think you need a commitment to evolving. And I think the internet allows you, a lot of the ideas that people have had around like brand and advertising were created in a world where you're doing like long-term planning around like print and television marketing and catalogs and things like that. And now with the internet, you can just like iterate on ideas so rapidly and evolve your brand so rapidly. And it's like a few clicks to like fully update yourself. And so I think the only consistent thing for our company is like the feeling that we're

• 38:38Speaker 03

  trying to create, kind of like what we want people to feel when interacting with the brand. And I think that that has to stay consistent because like that is the brand. It's not necessarily like whatever logo, whatever your logo is at any one given point.

• 38:57Sam Parr?

  Dude, that's great.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  You guys are...

• 38:59Sam Parr?

  Can we get back to the list?

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Let's do it. But Sam, last thing I would say, my first ever company was a skateboard company. And this was like, this was like the pivotal moment for me at 12 years old. I found somebody in the Midwest that would manufacture skateboard decks for me. So that wasn't my first million, but that was my first hundred, my first time making a hundred dollars from building a product. And that was such an insane moment. I was like, you'll make this and then I get to put my logo on it and sell it? Like this is the most amazing thing ever. And so that was like my first experience building any type of brand was J-Man Designs. I still have, I still have a board in my home office.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  And I think that once I realized like, hey, you can just, that was my moment of like, you can just make things. Like everything you see in the world is a business.

• 39:51Sam Parr?

  And there's no reason that you can't build it yourself. We have to shred the nar sometimes. I still skate.

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've seen you are incredible at skating. Those videos on Instagram.

• 40:02Sam Parr?

  I realized, I realized by like a teenager, I was like, this is a hobby that that destroys your body. So I switched to surfing.

• 40:08Speaker 01

  I can't believe you can still do that. It's every time I see that video, it's like insane. Anyway.

• 40:13Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I still like to get after it. I want to be a 40 year old man doing handrails still.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  It's crazy.

• 40:20Sam Parr?

  What do you do with the money once you've already made it? This is a question Sean and I ask our successful guests all the time. And the reason we ask it is because if you are successful, if you do have a little bit of money, information on how to spend or invest your money, it's actually really hard to come by. And I know this because inside of Hampton, which is my community of founders, people ask this question all the time. People have made 10 or 50 million dollars. How do you spend it? How do you invest it? And so to help solve this problem and answer this question, I actually interviewed 80 plus founders, guys like Scott Galloway, Alex Ramosi, Brian Johnson, people who are worth 50, 100, even billions of dollars. And we got them to reveal everything. So their net worths, how much they pay themselves, their monthly expenses, their portfolio, things like that. And we turned these 80 interviews into one document. And I don't think you can find this type of information literally anywhere on the internet.

• 41:02Sam Parr?

  And it's completely free. So if you want to see behind the net worths of people who are worth billions of dollars and their portfolios, their expenses, everything, you go to joinhampton.com/reveal. Again, joinhampton.com/reveal. Check it out.

• 41:18Sam Parr?

  All right, all right. Should I do mine? You guys are gonna make fun of me. My next one is self-promote.

• 41:24Speaker 01

  I love this. No, this is amazing.

• 41:26Shaan Puri?

  Is this, oh my god. Oh my god.

• 41:29Sam Parr?

  Listen, guys, here's the deal.

• 41:30Shaan Puri?

  I thought, I thought you might do this. I was gonna make fun of you.

• 41:33Speaker 01

  No, I love it.

• 41:35Sam Parr?

  But it just makes sense. Okay, so I picked HubSpot, but the reality is, is there's probably 30 or 50 or 100 companies that could go in this case here. The SaaSpocalypse, was that what we're calling it?

• 41:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 41:47Sam Parr?

  Insane, insane to me. So HubSpot, I think they peaked around 900, 850 dollars a share, went down. I think the low recently was 200 bucks. I think that is insane. HubSpot, and again, sub this out with. So many different companies. It's probably the same story. HubSpot does $3 billion in revenue with a $14 billion market cap. Okay? I think that is insane. They're projecting to do 3.7 billion in 26. So you're buying a a subscription software company that I don't think people are going to tear out of their of their business. Something like 3x revenue, like everyone talks about, like all the nerds on Twitter,

• 42:29Sam Parr?

  which I'm one of them, are talking about like building their own CRMs. Maybe, maybe the nerds are doing that. A roofing company with 20 employees in Tennessee, they ain't gonna be doing it anytime soon. And so I do think that there's a lot of, I think this is overblown with them plus however many companies. I think I saw monday.com, I think it was.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:51Sam Parr?

  I think they do a billion in revenue at a $2 billion market cap, something like that. I forget exactly. And I think that's insane. The bear case with some of these SaaS companies is I do think the seat model is a little bit insane. Because like, do you guys remember just the other day that Substack article went live? Where it was basically a guy telling a story about how like AI is going to be so good that people aren't going to work. And if they aren't going to work, they're not going to buy stuff. And so it does kind of like bait the question if like software companies do pay per seat. If you have less employees, Square just laid off however many people, 40% of their staff, or whatever, like, do they need to continue buying software at the same rate that they were because of the seat model? That's like the bear case, but I just think the SaaS apocalypse totally overblown. What do you guys think?

• 43:32Shaan Puri?

  Reaction?

• 43:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, one, one, going back to this Sarah's List concept, the amazing thing about HubSpot Equity is that it is liquid, right? And so, and so you, it's very real. There's a lot of companies in our, in our industry where you might get a massive grant, but you have no, you're fully locked up.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  And I think, I think to the tune of like, can you get the three, four, five X? Well, if the narrative flips and people are like, wait, actually like HubSpot has some real significant moat. And that thing that we thought was going to kill them isn't going to kill them. Well, it just pops right back up. And so that's. Sort of the option value I see.

• 44:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I would say like.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  More pressure from like, like maybe startups that are that are not doing the seat based model. They're doing more outcome based model, but a lot of those companies are just getting started. And it's going to be years until there's ever like some real disruptive pressure. So.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, my my general framework is that it's going to even like HubSpot will need to evolve in a way that it hasn't since inception, just naturally. And so.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Need great leadership.

• 44:41Speaker 03

  I don't believe that SaaS is going away, but it's going to require great leadership to help evolve and help the company like actually build a lot of momentum in this new era. So I'm with you. I don't think the local roofing company is gonna, you know, just be vibe code and kind of maintain their own

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  software stack, but leadership is going to have to like actually, it's going from like, hey, we can just compound at this rate annually forever. And like, this is just

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:11Speaker 03

  easy, easy mode SaaS that we saw.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  If they're going to bake off with a company that has some really crazy agentic features and basically the CRM is cleaning itself up and adding stuff and lead scoring even better, then they're going to need to invest a lot more. But in general, very, very strong position to be in system of record.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  What say you, Sean? You don't, it doesn't even have to be HubSpot. It could be any, it could be the dozens of companies.

• 45:32Shaan Puri?

  I've been looking at this. I mean, I've, I've been looking at it actually just as an investor to say like, okay, definitely seems like a overreaction. Um, you know, you know, Monish Prabha came on the podcast and he said a great thing, which is that risk and uncertainty are two different words and most investors uh don't understand that. And he was explaining how the stock market responds to uncertainty more than it does to risk. And so if it if, and which is what's happening right now, there's just uncertainty and uncertainty is very different than saying. Something bad is actually gonna happen. It's just that we don't know what the future cash flows look like. We don't know what the future growth rates look like. So you get this discount just for uncertainty. And so I've been looking at all these SaaS stocks and I've been trying to

• 46:15Shaan Puri?

  decide like, okay, Figma and you have Salesforce and you have HubSpot, you have like all of these on sale. And I'm like, do I want to stock up while these are all on sale? I think these are pretty good companies here, but they have, they do have some level of uncertainty. So I've, I've definitely been looking at this. I was joking, you know, groaning at your pick, but I actually think it's, it's a pretty good pick, especially because the way John said it, like, you're gonna be liquid the whole time. If you Sarah's list this company, you're gonna be working at like a well, a company with 20 years of success under its belt, you know, systems and all this good stuff. And then it's like at this all time low, basically for where it's at.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  The one thing you have to be aware of is like AI, there's not going to be some announcement by the labs. It's like, hey, guys, AI is actually reversed in progress and it's getting way worse. We think it's gonna be much worse in the future. And then the stock's gonna rocket up. It's like the AI is only gonna get more capable. There's gonna be new capabilities unlocked. And so you have to be making this thesis with that in mind. And I think there's a way to do it, which is that HubSpot serves an incredible amount of small businesses. They're in a great position to actually deliver the value of AI to all those people. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's, it's all gonna come down to management and their ability to not just build a story around AI as a tailwind for the business, but actually show that like, we are delivering the power of AI to

• 47:33Speaker 03

  our customer base and they're giving us more money every single month than they were the last month.

• 47:38Shaan Puri?

  In your bull case, Sam, I think you wrote, AI features still suck, which is a funny bull case, but it's true. I think there's been a few companies like this, like Intercom, Zendesk, where they added AI to their existing thing. And they're like, oh yeah, our, I think Zendesk was at 200 million or something in ARR off of their AI feature. Intercom is over 100 million on their AI. Intercom's been around forever with customer support. And you would think, oh, they're gonna get disrupted by AI. And they're like, well, actually, the harder part is getting all these customer relationships. It's actually much easier to integrate an AI feature than it is to go get 100,000 small businesses to trust you and use you and integrate you.

• 48:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 48:14Shaan Puri?

  And so the question is like, can they do that? If they do that, then the narrative is not just like, oh, they're not. They're not getting disrupted, but actually, oh my God, look at all this extra growth they're getting because they have

• 48:23Sam Parr?

  Well, the the thesis that I have been buying into for the past two or three years since AI got really popular was there are going to be a lot of new entrants. But the vast majority, I think Jordy Jordy or one of you guys made this joke, but it's not a joke. The vast majority of value creation is going to be by big companies just getting bigger. I just think that it's the it's it's it's much easier for a sales force to get more efficient and launch new features than it is a new company. Or at least picking those new companies, very hard. But like picking a company that works already and it's going to get just a little bit better, it just it makes so much more money.

• 48:58Shaan Puri?

  Right. Love it. All right, let's move to the next pick. Let's get one from the TPN guys. What do we got?

• 49:03Speaker 01

  We should do semi-analysis. This is an interesting one. So semi-analysis looks like a Substack. Like if you go to the website, it might even be hosted on Substack. They have a website. They break down semiconductor and AI infrastructure build outs. They have a model for how data centers are progressing, how much it costs to inference different AI models. How the different chips are doing, they'll do a review of the latest Google TPU. They'll they'll explain to you how the latest Nvidia chip works. They're doing, it's a great business because

• 49:38Sam Parr?

  Wait, so it's like wire cutter? It's like a, is this like a, it's like a publication?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  But but wire cutter for the richest people in the world because they run trillion dollar companies.

• 49:48Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, institutions.

• 49:50Speaker 01

  Institutions, so hedge funds, banks, also the actual hyperscalers themselves. So if you're AMD, you want to know what Nvidia is doing. If you're Nvidia, you want to know what AMD is doing. And semi-analysis is going to talk to everyone, do a ton of research, put together a whole bunch of data into a cleanly organized spreadsheet that you can import into your valuation model for whether or not Microsoft is going to beat earnings. And so they sell those models.

• 50:15Sam Parr?

  It's a publication or it's a

• 50:17Speaker 01

  It's like the hustle, dude.

• 50:18Shaan Puri?

  It's like your company, right?

• 50:19Speaker 01

  It's a publication.

• 50:20Sam Parr?

  So think of it, think of it as a

• 50:23Speaker 01

  You can subscribe to like

• 50:24Sam Parr?

  Like as a subscribe, like as a newsletter subscriber.

• 50:27Speaker 01

  Buy models that are pre-built, like Excel models with data in them. And those are very expensive. And then, yes.

• 50:35Shaan Puri?

  Sam, have you seen this guy Dylan Patel? No, this is great though. Never met an Indian guy named Dylan, but love it, love it. So he, he is, when he goes on podcasts, this guy is so knowledgeable about what's going on with GPUs. I don't know if you've ever seen the Louis CK bit where he talks about like how he likes to somehow, sometimes use the N word, but in a positive way. And he talks about like, if he goes to a coffee shop and orders a coffee, the guy just like fully like foams it and frosts it and like makes it perfect. He'll be like, that N word made the shit out of my coffee. It's like, that's how I feel watching Dillit Patel talk about GPUs and infrastructure. He'll be talking about the new colossus thing and

• 51:15Shaan Puri?

  he knows the megawatts under the, the flops and what cables they're using. And he knows everything. He's like, we got satellites watching the parking lots and we figured out this is how bad they're scaling. This guy knows, he knows so much. It's incredible that how much this one person is know, is knowledgeable about GPUs.

• 51:33Sam Parr?

  And is he writing all of this? It looks like an AI blog.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  So it's, uh, so, so they use AI imagery, but all the, all the text is, is written by their staff of analysts. So they have about 50 people working there. And on a particular deep dive, they might have five to six authors attached. Dylan might write something, other folks might write something. Doug O'Laughlin's also over there and.

• 51:54Shaan Puri?

  How much money are they making? Because is this like a $5 million company, 50, 500? Like what's going on with this?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  I would put.

• 52:00Sam Parr?

  Tens of millions.

• 52:01Speaker 01

  I would put in tens of millions, but this is the interesting like bull case is that right now they have like a very respected analysis group, but they're also launching a fund allegedly, according to the information to invest in both semiconductor stocks and startups. And they're already doing angel investing. And then also they're going to do credit ratings. And so the real model to think about this, the comp is Moody's. So if you're familiar with Moody's, they do credit ratings and Moody's got started during the railroad build out because the, the, the railroad build out was so capital-y, capital intensive that there was a huge, there was a huge secondary market for like, okay, is this person that's going to build this railroad from, from

• 52:42Speaker 01

  Chicago to Atlanta? Like, are they good for it? Do they have the money? And so Moody's is now at Billion dollar business and I and if you look at the stock like it Moody's has not moved during the sell off like it's doing fine. And yes, this is very indexed to the AI boom, but the the actual business can be very, very stable, very high margin and very big, like much bigger than people think. When they think of just like publishing analysis.

• 53:09Sam Parr?

  This wins. This is the best one. This is the best one. This is super cool.

• 53:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, one of our, one of our teammates, his brother just got a job here and John and I were so excited for him.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:20Speaker 03

  Cause if you wanna, if you're, if you're excited about, uh, if you're excited about AI and you're not like a researcher or a product designer or product manager.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Or a founder, but you wanna be at the center of the action and actually understand what's happening. This is a fantastic.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  It's a super interesting job with a lot of upside.

• 53:38Sam Parr?

  Are they, uh, do they have offices? It looks like the founder lives in SEF. Is it like an in real life, uh?

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, they have a, a west coast and a east coast.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's a lot of, it's a lot of time with like hedge funds and banks and managers and, uh, and also Dylan Patel is, is very young. I believe he's in his twenties. And so I, I like your, your, your, your description of his, you know, encyclopedic knowledge of the semiconductor industry is correct. And I think if you just look at what that compounds like over two decades, I think you're gonna, you're, you're already seeing one of the most important voices in the most important industry, but it just compounds.

• 54:15Sam Parr?

  Have you guys ever read this book called How to Get Rich?

• 54:17Speaker 01

  No.

• 54:18Sam Parr?

  It's by an author called Felix Dennis. Felix Dennis, you guys have to read this.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  The magazine guy, right?

• 54:23Sam Parr?

  The magazine guy. You, you should Google Felix Dennis. So Felix Dennis, he was that guy. He was like a combination of Richard Branson and Mick Jagger. He was kind of vulgar. But he had this like British aristocrat vibe. He was really funny. He's very funny. He died from cancer and he used to joke that he, he, he was a crackhead. Like he was literally a cocaine and crack addict and he spent a lot of his money doing it and he wrote about it. He was, but he's like funny. He wrote about it. Anyway. He got rich because he created this thing called Dennis Publications and Dennis Publications was a computer magazine started in the late seventies, early eighties. And it made him a fortune. When he passed away, he was probably. Worth eight or nine hundred million dollars. And this is like an oh eight, two thousand and eight. Um, so it was very, very wealthy.

• 55:04Sam Parr?

  And there's like been like 10 different guys. There's a guy named Pat McGovern, who was a multi billionaire because of computer magazines in the nineteen nineties. There's Ziff Davis. Have you guys heard of that? Bill Ziff? There's been so many of these. And what you are explaining right now by what Dylan Patel does, it's this exact same B to B publication in a technology boom, owning a very small niche and just kicking ass and doing the same playbook of research, media, events, and it has created many billionaires.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, one, one way to look at semi-analysis is like what they're doing to like sell-side research firms, which is like, hey, wait, like you're a Substack. You can't do, you can't do like advanced research on semis, you know, or you can't like compete with us. You guys are just

• 55:47Speaker 01

  You have the aesthetics of like a Goldman Sachs equity research or Morgan Stanley report, but the data is just as good, if not better.

• 55:54Speaker 03

  And, and with T B P N, it's like, wait, you guys aren't, you don't, you don't have a cable network like you, like you, you guys can't interview this person on the day that they're IPO-ing. And it's like, you can just, you can just do things.

• 56:07Sam Parr?

  This is the, it's the same thing. We have, as someone, I'm a, a little bit of a media historian nerd. It's the same story over and over and over again. And this is a great find. Sean, you want to bring us home? What do you got?

• 56:19Shaan Puri?

  All right. I got one for you guys. This is a name that a lot of people know, but I hadn't really put too much thought into it. So Harvey. Harvey is basically very simple. It's a AI lawyer. Um, it's AI software for law firms, more specifically. And I think right now they've, they've just been, I mean, they're raising rounds. So like, you know, if I did this episode six months ago, it would have been like, oh, they're a whatever, two billion dollar company, five billion. Now they're an eight billion dollar company. So I might get, I might be getting priced out here as it's, as it goes. But I do love the space. So they're about 200 million in revenue off of just like a thousand customers. I think like half of the like top hundred law firms in America are using them in some, some capacity. And, um, I was just kind of, again, I like to do kind of bottoms up math to, to make, make my own case for these things.

• 57:05Shaan Puri?

  So I think in the U S, there's about half a million law firms. That's just in the US. And right now Harvey's average contract value is like 190,000, which means they're basically getting paid like they're a lawyer who works at the firm. And, um, and so, you know, I don't, I don't think that will be, be there for, you know, smaller law firms. I think there'll be, you know, obviously be a lower price point. But just in general, a, uh, legal work is very, like a perfect candidate for AI work, right? Cause it's mostly text documents. It's mostly writing and reading and summarizing. And then there's all these like really bespoke workflows that a law firm needs. There's compliance, there's security, there's validation. There's all these like things that you gotta

• 57:46Shaan Puri?

  build that's like for a law firm versus like, would a lawyer rather just upload into chat GPT? I don't think so. I think there's actually going to be like purpose built tools for, for law firms. So Harvey's one, Legora's another. They're both companies in the same exact space, kind of competing for this. And, um, I think the cool part about this is that if you can add leverage into the legal system, you, uh, you know, that'll kind of transform the economics of how these law forms work, law firms work, right? Because they currently they bill, there's billable hours. You put more bodies, there's sort of this incentive to spend more time on something. I think that's going to change. I think, uh, you know, more and more law firms are going to use this and realize like, we don't need to have as many people to be able to do the same amount of work. And I think their billing

• 58:30Shaan Puri?

  model is going to change. But anyways, I think, I think Harvey is a perfect example of like, as AI happen, as AI happens right now, there's going to be these winners for the decade. Like, oh, remember all those companies that got started when the AI happened? Like, yeah, there's the big ones, OpenAI and Anthropic and others. And then I think there's going to be these like vertical ones. And, uh, to me, the legal one is like a clear cut, obvious, in your face, vertical one that will be, uh, is pretty big. If you do the math, by the way, of like, you know, every law firm's going to use AI. This, I don't think there's going to be any law firms that are not using AI. Depending on how much market share you think they're going to capture, you sort of multiply that times a hundred thousand dollars per firm. And you very quickly get into the tens of billions in revenue available to.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  Yeah. The thesis for Harvey has, there, there hasn't been a lot of big outcomes of just building software for lawyers. So when investors have backed Harvey, it's been a

• 59:22Speaker 03

  General thesis that they're going to capture some of the current like labor spend, right, which is, which is a much, much bigger market than enterprise software. I had a, I've got a friend who is at one of the big law firms. He got an early demo of Harvey. When I first talked to him about it, he was like, oh, it's like, it's cool. And then a year later, somewhere in like, uh, early Q4 of last year, his like eyes were like wide open and he's like, I, I'm like, it's, it's the real, real deal now. So they've made a lot of progress. The, the product gets better as the models get better. The question is like, how much do the labs actually care to build out the kind of more enterprise functionality that, that Harvey's already built out?

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Um, and, and so there'll, there'll naturally be some competition there over time. But, uh, we had John, we had John Quinn from Quinn Emanuel on, on our show today. The most feared lawyer in the world, uh, really, really cool guy. You guys would have a fun conversation with him.

• 1:00:21Shaan Puri?

  Is that Elon's lawyer?

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:00:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  And, uh, I was, I asked him, do you think?

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  He's super nice.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Oh, he's, he's a, he's a sweetheart.

• 1:00:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  Um, but, but not the kind you'd want on your, on your bad side. But, um, but I asked him, so, so AI is really good at generating, uh, legal docs already. It might make some errors, but it can make them really fast. He's, I was like, do you think we'll potentially have a hundred X more litigation? And he was like, yeah, possibly, right? But he also said that that's kind of like the, the bull case for lawyers still being at full employment is like, we, yeah, you might, a lawyer might be way more effective, but there could just be way more cases. So that would be kind of a very American outcome.

• 1:01:04Shaan Puri?

  It's like, what's that story like in India where they were like, there's too many pythons? And they put a bounty like, if you bring us a dead python, you get like, you know, whatever $100. And then the python population boom because people just started breeding pythons?

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:01:15Shaan Puri?

  That's basically what you're saying is going to happen. We're just going to breed more of this like useless litigation. Love it.

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Well, this already happened in legal. There was a piece of software that would help lawyers write down their billable hours and it would sort of pad it out. And then, so there was software on the client's side that would automatically scan it and say, that's not work I'm paying for, or get that out of there, get that out of there. And it became like bot on bot war. Very fun.

• 1:01:41Speaker 03

  Did you guys see the episode we did with John Morgan?

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  No. Oh, for Morgan and Morgan?

• 1:01:45Sam Parr?

  Yeah, so we had John Morgan on. So for the listener, Jordy, I don't know if you would see his, I don't know if he's in California or not.

• 1:01:51Shaan Puri?

  I've seen the ads.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  I've watched the episode.

• 1:01:54Sam Parr?

  I think it might be the largest type of his law firm. What is he? He is a

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  Injury law.

• 1:02:00Sam Parr?

  So he has commercials everywhere and he comes off like a sweet, he's older, he's in his seventies. He almost comes off like a grandpa, like you want to trust him. So he comes off like a very like, you know, PC soft guy, but you know, whatever. He's a lawyer. So we had him on the pod. I swear to God, the very first sentence that he says to us, I say to him, John, I hear that you own a museum on crime and punishment. That's really unique, verbatim. Oh, that thing, that thing, Prince. That's the first line, I swear to God, that he said to us, word for word.

• 1:02:41Speaker 01

  It makes a lot of money.

• 1:02:42Sam Parr?

  He owns, he owns an amusement park business and he owns seven museums called the Alcatraz of the East. I think he calls it.

• 1:02:53Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:02:54Sam Parr?

  And

• 1:02:55Shaan Puri?

  We were like, how do you have time to do this? You have a $5 billion law firm. And he was like, I don't hunt deer, I hunt money.

• 1:03:04Shaan Puri?

  We were like, this guy's incredible.

• 1:03:06Speaker 01

  That's wild.

• 1:03:07Shaan Puri?

  From John Morgan.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  That's amazing.

• 1:03:10Sam Parr?

  It was one of the craziest interviews I think that we've ever done. It was the most different of the commercial versus the reality was like way different.

• 1:03:19Speaker 03

  There's a number of Harveys for personal injury, people that are making

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Working on that too.

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  Software specifically to qualify these types of cases and will naturally be controversial because some people don't like the whole, the whole category. But that's just an area, there's going to be like vertical Harveys.

• 1:03:40Shaan Puri?

  That's terrible. Just send me your deck. I just gotta take a look. I can't believe you guys are doing that, but just send it over.

• 1:03:46Speaker 03

  We got one more for you guys that I think you'll, that I think you'll like. Have you guys heard of Send Cut Send?

• 1:03:54Sam Parr?

  No.

• 1:03:55Shaan Puri?

  What is that?

• 1:03:55Sam Parr?

  What is that?

• 1:03:56Speaker 03

  Okay, so fun name for a pretty serious company. They let engineers upload CAD files and quickly get custom parts made using software automation to make quoting and production fast and frictionless.

• 1:04:08Sam Parr?

  Can you dumb that down a little bit?

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  So basically you send in, yeah, you send in like a, like a 3D file that says, I want, uh, you know, a cube milled out of aluminum and it's gotta have a cylinder attached to it.

• 1:04:23Speaker 03

  Yeah. So you're, let's say you want to design your own pair of trucks.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, your own truck.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  You design the trucks on a computer and then you take this file and you send it to them.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  They cut it and then they send it to you.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  Send, you send them the file, they cut it up, they cut up the metal, they send it back to you. So this one's cool because it's, it's fully aligned with like everything you hear about reindustrialization.

• 1:04:46Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  The kind of things that America used to do, but forgot how to do that we, we shipped these capabilities overseas. But Send Cut Send is a bootstrapped company. The founder Jim has been on our show, scaled over a hundred million in annualized revenue. Uh, you know, completely independently and have thousands and thousands of, of happy customers uh, all over the US, doing something that again, uh, you would, you know, people talk about the, uh, why entrepreneurs end up manufacturing in Asia. One reason is because of, of, uh, costs, but another thing is just like speed. Like the, you know, every, every person that's manufactured something here will tell you, I reached out to this shop, I asked them to make a part, they didn't get back to me

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  for a week. When they got back to me, they said they could do it in a, in a, in two months. And so Send Cut Send is really focused on

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  uh, speed and ease of use. And, uh, they've scaled up, uh, organically and the founder Jim is, is just amazing. And so.

• 1:05:48Sam Parr?

  How'd you guys find this? This is not, this has not appeared to be in your wheelhouse.

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, I, we love, we love having companies, uh, come on the show that don't, you know, every, every single day, there's probably half a million to a billion dollars worth of fundraising rounds that, that get announced on TPN, but we love having founders on that, that, uh, that have never raised a dollar and.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  I met him through, uh, Jason Carmen because Jason Carmen profiles a lot of hard tech companies and he is a supplier to a lot of those hard tech companies. So you can kind of think of him as like the index on all of those like somewhat more risky reindustrialization bets where is this drone company going to work or is that drone company going to work? Well, they're both going to be buying parts from Send Cut Send.

• 1:06:31Sam Parr?

  Wow. Great find, man. This is a really cool one. He used to, so this guy owns, when you described it, I was thinking like a more of a blue collar looking guy. He owned a landing page company and then went into this business.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's just a, he's like a, he's like a, just a hacker that decided to make stuff in the real world.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he's very, I mean, the bootstrap thing is, I think, important because like it's a capital intensive business, but he's been, you know, thinking about profitability, thinking about scalability from day one, set up a very healthy business. That's, that's not going to collapse at any point in time.

• 1:07:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, we joked with him when he was on our show. We said if you were venture backed, you'd be valued at five to 10 billion.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  You'd be getting some insane multiple, but he's happy to just build a great business and compound every single year. And we hope that he scales up dramatically and enters a bunch of different verticals over time because lord knows we need it.

• 1:07:31Sam Parr?

  Dude, there's been so many times where Sean and I talked to someone and I'm like, what am I doing? Podcasting? Like, this sounds so much cooler. Do you, do you guys, do you guys feel like that all the time by talking to all these amazing people?

• 1:07:43Speaker 03

  I think most of the people we talk to, we know we have no business being in their business.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:48Speaker 03

  And so I feel like we're very lucky in that. Uh, like I wouldn't want to compete with like Peter Rahal in selling protein bars, even though I could go make a protein bar, right?

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:00Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I think I'm missing that common sense because every time I talk to these guys, I'm like, we're so similar, me and you. I was like, I should be just doing what you're doing. This is great. And I somehow think I can do all of those.

• 1:08:11Sam Parr?

  Yeah, like halfway through the interview, Sean like acts like I'm interviewing him. He gets on, he's, Sean's like, you know, like Sam, guys like us, we're just here to like do amazing things and like build great products. And he'll sign off. I say, thanks, thanks for having us, Sam.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Become the guest on your own show. That's elite. I love it.

• 1:08:28Shaan Puri?

  I do like the bootstrap side because, I mean, one of the things with Sarah's List is you don't want to be taking a ton of dilution, right? Because even if the, the stock price is going up, you don't, you don't want this company that's, keeps requiring more and more capital, has a bigger prep stack, all that stuff. I had one on mind that was, uh, we don't have to go into it too much, but it's Column Bank. It's kind of like this. I don't know if you guys saw the story that came out just the other day. So the founder of Plaid. Uh, his new company called Column. Yeah. Is basically like, it's a fintech company. It's a bank. He actually bought a bank for, I think, sixty million dollars of his own money. Mm hmm. And then he started this, uh, and he basically uses it as a, uh, the, the underlying bank under Mercury, under Ramp, under Brex, under all these companies. And so he, uh, and I think they're doing, this number's out of date, in 2026, they're doing two hundred million in revenue.

• 1:09:14Shaan Puri?

  He. Um, he owns all of it. He never raised any money. Wow. And it's, it's like you said, it's an index. So it's an index into all the new fintech shit. Yeah. It's like, great. If you think Ramp's gonna keep growing and you think Mercury's gonna keep growing, well, guess what? Column will keep doing well. That's great. And they're, they're doing extremely well. And here you got a founder who owns the whole thing. And so, you know, you go work there, you're not gonna take dilution the same way because it's a profitable company. That's awesome.

• 1:09:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, and they're, they're, they're competing with, uh, all the banking as a service providers because historically you'd have the fintech, like a NeoBank, like a Mercury, and then there'd be like a banking as a service provider, and then there would be the actual like chartered bank underneath it. And so Column is like eating up the bottom two layers of the stack and saying, hey, build the consumer facing financial services company, but we'll handle, uh, the, you know, all, all the different, you know, the API layer down to the actual bank.

• 1:10:06Sam Parr?

  So the, uh, I'm just browsing. It looks, so he started, uh, uh, this, I feel embarrassed, platter plate. I know what it is.

• 1:10:13Shaan Puri?

  Plaid.

• 1:10:13Sam Parr?

  It's one of the, yeah, it's one of these words where I read, I never say.

• 1:10:16Speaker 03

  Column was started due to his experience building Plaid, right? Because Plaid is like the.

• 1:10:22Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, the rails.

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  Uh, allows, you know, is basically created in, in large part, helped create the, the overall fintech boom. And so that's a good example of like, when you're picking these companies, there's a, there's, there's like this, you know, in Silicon Valley, we all want to believe that the founder with no experience can just come in and just dominate the industry just based on, you know, sheer, uh, willpower. But sometimes just going, going in and, uh, attaching yourself to, uh, a team led by somebody who has deep, deep, deep experience and has vision that is grounded, uh, around having worked in the industry for a long time is, uh, like, sometimes you don't need to overthink it. Just like, if you're

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  gonna join a company, go work for somebody that has done it before at massive scale.

• 1:11:10Shaan Puri?

  What an unfair advantage. Not only to see the problem, like you said, but. How many meetings can you get with fintech companies? If you're like, oh, by the way, I started Plaid, right? You can get every single meeting. You walk in with incredible credibility and then you have, you own the underlying bank. And then for whatever reason, I'm not a developer, but like for whatever reason, like having great, easy to use APIs is like this really big competitive advantage. That seems like every company should do because it sounds like handwriting, you know? It sounds like something so simple. It's like, well, a well documented, well designed API. But apparently it's a pretty big competitive advantage when you go into a space that historically didn't have that. And, uh, you know, it's no surprise that a company like this is kicking ass.

• 1:11:51Speaker 03

  What a boss, man. We gotta get him on. Amazing person. Looks like he's only 35, 36 years old. Hey, the bros, you guys are the best, man. Thank you so much for doing this.

• 1:12:03Shaan Puri?

  Of course, not the technology brothers anymore.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  We're not.

• 1:12:05Shaan Puri?

  By the way, John, I was wrong. I texted you when you changed the name to TBPN and I was like, oh no.

• 1:12:10Speaker 01

  Not gonna work.

• 1:12:10Shaan Puri?

  Technology brothers, that's the one.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:12:13Shaan Puri?

  But I was wrong. You guys, you guys made TBPN work in an incredible way.

• 1:12:17Speaker 01

  No, I mean, it still is a mouthful, but, uh, online people just type it out and having four letter domain, four letter handles, like.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  You know, the other reason, you know, the other reason we did it is at that point, we were shifting from just being the two of us talking to doing guests. And we wanted the aesthetics of being like a cable network because we wanted to go and get these like public company CEOs on. If you're trying to get a public company CEO, some of them, the really founder mode ones, you just talk, DM with, text and to jump on. But a lot of them, there's like layers of, of, uh, people in the communications department, uh, that, that you're kind of like needing to gain their trust. And, and so like by having the optics of being like a network, even though we were just a podcast, uh, we were able to, uh, you know, end up getting a lot of those guests and, and, um, and so.

• 1:13:05Shaan Puri?

  Funny nuance.

• 1:13:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:06Shaan Puri?

  Of that, it's like, oh, yeah, the, the folks from TBPN have reached out.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:13:12Shaan Puri?

  Feels very different than, you want to come hang with the technology brothers?

• 1:13:16Speaker 03

  It's like Jordan Belfour is calling it Shrapman Oakmott.

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  Shrapman Oakmott, there we go.

• 1:13:20Speaker 03

  He's like, uh, it's just a made up name. It just sounded official. Um, thank you guys. This is awesome. You're welcome anytime and we appreciate you. Thanks for having us.

• 1:13:30Shaan Puri?

  We did their sign on. Maybe we should let them do our sign off. So we, we, we basically asked you, is that it? That's it. And then you say, that's the pod. So can you give us a, we'll set you up. Is that it?

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  We done?

• 1:13:41Shaan Puri?

  That's the pod.

• 1:13:52Sam Parr?

  If you made it this far, then you're gonna love what I'm about to tell you. So there's this amazing entrepreneur, his name's Neil Patel. He's been on MFM, he's one of our favorite guests, and he has a podcast. It's called Marketing School, and it's brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Marketing School brings you daily actionable digital marketing lessons learned from years and years of being in the trenches. They have over 100 million downloads and over 2,500 episodes. Marketing School gives you bite-sized marketing wisdom that you can implement immediately, whether you have a new website or you already have this huge established business. You're gonna learn about the latest SEO, content marketing, social media, email marketing, conversion optimization, and general online marketing strategies that work today. You can get Marketing School wherever you get your podcasts.