What Moses Reveals About Your Life

What if the reason you feel stuck has nothing to do with your circumstances and everything to do with a story you don't know you're telling? In this lecture, Jordan Peterson sets out to answer a single question, what is and should be the story of your life, and arrives somewhere most people never look: the ancient account of a people escaping slavery, and a shepherd who becomes a leader only once he has grown up. Along the way Peterson argues that tyranny is not first a political fact but a personal one, playing out in your own head, your marriage, and your kitchen before it ever reaches a nation, and that the thing you aim at silently decides everything you are able to see. What begins as a walk from one point to another turns into a map of how an ordinary person is called out of the desert, and a surprisingly practical answer to the oldest complaint of all, that you know what you should do and cannot make yourself do it. This lecture was filmed in Los Angeles, California, on May 15, 2024. Unlock the ad-free experience of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast and dive into exclusive bonus content on DailyWire+. Start watching now: http://dwpluspeterson.com/yt ALL LINKS: https://feedlink.io/jordanbpeterson // LINKS // Peterson Academy https://petersonacademy.com Books - https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/books/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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• 2:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  The question I wanted to address tonight is, that I'm going to address tonight is,

• 2:08Jordan B. Peterson?

  what's the story of,

• 2:11Jordan B. Peterson?

  what is and should be the story of your life? The first part of addressing that question, I suppose, is, why a story? Why the story of your life? Well, I think it's because, I think it's because life is a story. And that's a strange idea, that life is a story. Because you could say, you tell a story about life. That's different than saying life is a story. But if you wanted to represent life, and you wanted to do that most accurately, and you had to do that with a story,

• 2:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  which is what we do when we try to represent life, then why wouldn't you conclude that, since the story is the most accurate, interesting, and memorable way of representing life, why would you conclude anything other than life's a story? And

• 3:19Jordan B. Peterson?

  and it is a story. And that's a very different view than life, let's say, in a dead material world of automatons and creatures that are deterministic in their movement forward. A story is a romance, or a story is an adventure. A story is something that has a deep, intrinsic meaning. Or it's not much of a story. And you go to a movie.

• 3:56Jordan B. Peterson?

  You go to a story, you go to a movie, you watch a book, and if it's not engaging, if it doesn't attract your attention and bring you along, it's not much of a story. And what that seems to indicate is that it's not a very accurate representation of life. Because why would you be bored, or disenchanted, or disengaged when you're being told, or watching, or acting out a poor story if that wasn't a deviation from the ideal that you're actually hoping to experience? Right?

• 4:38Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so, life is a story, and stories vary in their quality. And we have an instinct for assessment of that variation. And that instinct is really whether or not we find the story meaningful and engaging. And so that also implies that the proper story of your life would be one that's meaningful and engaging. Now, I realized something a long time ago. This is a matter of definition, and so in some ways, it's a matter of faith. Like so many things are in life. You're an ignorant creature, and there are limits to your knowledge. It means you have to put a stake in the sand somewhere. You have to decide what you're going to regard as real

• 5:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  and act and act in relationship with and as if it's real. And we're enjoined by the reductionist-materialist types, the Enlightenment types particularly, to assume that life in the dead deterministic world of atoms, let's say, is meaningless in its essence with an overlay of meaning on top of it, which is our arbitrary way of dealing with the hopelessness of our fate on this insignificant planet in a third-rate solar system on the edge of one galaxy among trillions. That is a way of looking at the world, but it's not a very

• 6:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  interesting or productive way of looking at the world. And it tends to produce a certain kind of bitter hopelessness. And that could well be an indication that there's something a little off-kilter about it. You can start from a different perspective. And this is a more religious perspective, although there are also philosophical schools that adopt it. And you could make the case that, no, what's really, what's real in its most fundamental essence is what motivates you, what what interests you, what you find deeply meaningful.

• 6:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  Real is a matter of definition in many ways. I mean, you pay for the definition. It's not like there's not consequences for the definition. But

• 7:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  you make a decision about what you're going to regard as real. Could investigate that a little bit. Even the materialist types tend to act as if their pain is real. Right? Pain has that intrinsically meaningful quality, which is core, it's the essence of pain. To be meaningful, it's not something you can ignore. It's something that brings you to a halt. It brings you to your knees. It can make life itself unbearable. It's not something you can set aside with your disbelief. It's it's plenty real.

• 7:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  And I think that's an undeniable truth. You certainly act as if it is. And you don't. And then, so there's another question that emerges from that observation, which is, well, if pain is real, which is a reasonable proposition, then what helps you cope with pain is equally or more real. That's a good way of thinking about a battle between different realities. Is the the victor of the battle is the more real phenomena? And what helps you deal with pain?

• 8:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, love. I mean, we know this even biochemically. If you have a child and the child scrapes his knee, let's say, on the cement, and he runs to you and you kiss it better, that works. And part of the reason it works, we know this biochemically, is because the hug and the expression of care produce a release of endogenous opiates in the child's brain along with oxytocin, and both of those chemicals are reassuring and analgesic. And so even at the biological level, love has the ability to ameliorate pain.

• 9:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  We can withstand a lot of pain in our lives if we're surrounded by love. And so that seems to give love a kind of reality that's irreducible. I don't find that it undermines these sorts of observations to point out the biological the parallels, the biological parallels with that. It's, it makes perfect sense to me that what's meaningful and what's biological could work together in harmony in some sort of ultimate unity. I can't understand at all why that wouldn't be the case.

• 9:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  Meaningful pursuit, that also ameliorates pain. We also know this technically. So it's very common, for example, for athletes who are involved in a very compelling game, let's say, a championship game. If they're injured, they can carry on and then continue to play. And the reason for that, there's a technical reason for that. And the technical reason is that

• 10:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  Imagine you have a goal that you value, which of course you have in a sporting event, because the goal is a goal. It's pretty straightforward. And the stakes of the goal are high. Perhaps that's the championship. And that's the goal of winning a set or a match made up of many goals. So it's like a meta-goal to win a championship is a meta-goal. And if you're a key player in that and you see yourself contributing in a meaningful manner to the movement towards that goal, that produces a release of a neurochemical, the neurochemical dopamine,

• 11:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  which signals movement towards a valuable goal, which produces positive emotion and enthusiasm. It produces that sense that what you're doing is meaningful. Or it's an index of the fact that what you're doing is meaningful. That's a better way of thinking about it. And that's analgesic. And so meaningful engagement and love are both medications for pain. And pain's pretty real. And so why not assume that what alleviates suffering is real? You'll pay for what alleviates suffering. You'll pursue it.

• 11:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  What you actually do seems to be a good index of what you regard as real. And so if you're willing to pursue... If you're willing to pursue something, that's evidence that you have faith in its value and that you believe in its reality. So now with stories, they indicate what people believe to be real. So when you go to a movie, for example, or when you hear a story, you read a story,

• 12:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  what you're watching or listening to, what you're simulating with your imagination is the theory of reality that the character that you're watching is applying to the world. That's the story they're acting out or the story they're telling themselves. And what you see when you go to see a movie is you see a character pursuing his aim and perhaps transforming that aim as the plot develops. That's the development of character, is the transformation of aim, the sequential transformation of aim. And that's the story of life in many ways,

• 13:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  is that each of the episodes in your life is bounded by an aim, what you're trying to accomplish, the destination you're attempting to reach, motivated by the call of something that fills you with enthusiasm. And then the transformation of those aims across time as your wisdom increases or your corruption, if you're playing a negative game. As your wisdom increases, the aim transforms and becomes higher and your character grows and develops. And that's what you want to see when you see a movie or when you read a great book. You want to see someone pursuing his aim.

• 13:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  And then you want to see the transformations of those aims that transform his character in some manner that sheds light on the structure of the world. And that can be a hero who's climbing upward and becoming more than he is on a continual basis, transforming as he pursues his aim with the transformation of aim that that entails. Or you can see someone degenerate into hell essentially by aiming down, corrupting himself, aiming down more bitterly, corrupting himself more and pursuing that pathway

• 14:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  until he's an avatar of the abyss itself. And both of those patterns of characterization are salutary. They're both informative. Because you would like to aim up, assuming that you would like to have your life improve and the life of those around you, assuming that that could happen and that you believe it could happen, that you want it to happen. If you can simulate the life of a transforming hero, then you can practice in your imagination that upward pathway. And that's what you're doing when you participate in the world of fiction, of literature.

• 15:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's what you do in some sense as well when you're going to a sports event with the other 20,000 people who are joining you in your worship. And it's a worship of aim, right? Because every sporting event is a celebration of aim and a communal admission of the value of that skillful aim and a participation in the process of the development of that aim. Because you want to see skilled athletes on the field

• 16:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  getting better at what they do. That's the most exciting part of any athletic competition. It's not only the competition and the possibility of victory, but you want to see the athletes push themselves to their limits while they're engaged in that and becoming more than they are while they're doing that. And that, when you watch that on the field, when you watch that, say, in a gymnastics contest where you see someone really hovering on the edge of disaster and pushing themselves past where they even thought they could go. That's the sort of thing that'll bring the whole crowd spontaneously to its feet, right? Because that's a testament to the... It's a testament to the logos of human nature,

• 16:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  this ability to move beyond the zone of comfort and to develop an ever-deeper level of skill and commitment while pursuing an aim, right? And that's what you see in an athletic competition. And that's what you participate in as an athlete. And that's what you portray as a writer and that's what you act out as an actor. And that's what you simulate as an observer, as a member of the audience.

• 17:19Speaker 05

  Imagine your favorite lecture. Dial that on one max, put that on steroids, and then add some cinematic elements to it. That's the best way I could describe a Peterson Academy lecture.

• 17:33Speaker 06

  I went to college because I had to. I go to Peterson Academy because I want to. I'm still paying off college from 10 years ago. And I'm also still questioning the value that I got out of college.

• 17:42Speaker 05

  In traditional universities, a lot of times, it's just pretty dry. They don't bring the same energy as the professors at Peterson Academy.

• 17:50Speaker 06

  It is a completely different experience to learn from somebody who actually wants to teach you.

• 17:54Speaker 03

  If you've been on the fence about this, this is the time.

• 17:58Speaker 07

  That thing that's calling to you, you won't have an answer for it unless you enroll and see for yourself. You have the opportunity to investigate that calling.

• 18:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  And how do you simulate that? That's something remarkable, something intensely interesting. You simulate that the same way that you come to understand another person. And you don't come to understand a person by taking their arguments apart and understanding them rationally. That isn't how we do it. That's too painstaking. And people aren't that coherent anyways. Often in their presentation, they're full of complexities and contradictions. And we don't build ourselves rationally, even though we can be rational. That isn't what you do. What you do is you watch a person and you infer their aim. And that's why you watch their eyes, right? Because their eyes point at what they're aiming at.

• 18:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  And you watch their eyes. And our eyes actually evolved so that they're maximally...

• 19:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  Visible. Black people, colored background on a white canvas. Right, they're very evident. And that's because all of our ancestors, whose eyes couldn't be read, were either killed or didn't reproduce. Because everyone wants to know what you're up to.

• 19:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  And they infer that by watching your eyes, which is why we gaze into each other's faces when we talk. What's this person up to? What are they looking at? What are they devoting their attention to? They're devoting their attention to what they value. What do they value? The aim at which they're pointing. How do we understand that? We see their aim, we adopt it momentarily, and we replicate the experience on our own bodies. So, to walk a mile in someone else's shoes is to adopt their aim. And that means to see the world through their eyes. Literally, to see the objects of their perception. Because what we perceive are things that

• 20:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  move us toward or impede our progress in relationship to an aim. That's what an object is. It's not a dead fact. It's something living in relationship to a journey forward. And this is technically true. We understand this about perception. All facts are not equal. We don't perceive everything in the world. We perceive relevant things in the world. And those are the facts at hand. The relevant facts. And relevant facts are relevant because they pertain to a goal. Even in a simple situation, if I want to walk across this stage to move from point A here to point B there,

• 20:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  I am making the assumption that point B, the place I'm headed, is better than the place I'm at. Because otherwise, why go? And that's why the chicken crossed the road, by the way.

• 21:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  And then when I look on that pathway that opens itself up because of my aim, I can see the pathway forward. And I can see these chairs, let's say, as obstacles in my path. The fact that I perceive them as obstacles in relationship to the aim means that I perceive them with negative emotion. Things that get in your way elicit negative emotion. That's a marker of an obstacle. And things that move you forward elicit positive emotion. Enemies get in your way. And allies and friends facilitate your movement forward. And enemies raise your ire and make you anxious. And friends fill you with enthusiasm

• 21:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  and the desire to cooperate towards that shared aim. And that's the landscape of the world. That's the story that you inhabit. This journey from point A to point B, right? A story is the representation of an aim. It's the representation of a journey. And it's more than that, because it can be a sequence of transforming aims. That's a complex characterization. And then it's more than that too, because it can be a story of how the aim transforms. Because there's a pattern. When you go from point A to point B, you can just go there, and that's not much of a story. Or you can start to go there, and you can encounter the

• 22:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  allies and tools that move you forward, or the obstacles and pitfalls that interfere with your progress and transform you. And that's a deeper story. The deeper story is, I was moving from A to B, and something emerged that I didn't expect. And in consequence of that unexpected occurrence, I changed dramatically, and my aim shifted. And I started to move upward in a different direction as a transformed person. And a sequence of stories like that is a tale of character development. And that's exactly what happens in the biblical narratives.

• 23:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's exactly what they portray. This story that we inhabit of upward transformation. And I'll give you a concrete example of that tonight so that you understand more deeply what this means. I'm going to tell you some of the story of Exodus, of the story of Moses. And you'll see how it fits this archetypal pattern. It's a portrayal of the story itself. Okay, so what's the basic story of Exodus? Well, the Israelites are going somewhere. They have a point B, right? They have a plan, they have an aim, they have a destination, they have a purpose.

• 23:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that purpose is the journey to the promised land. And what does that mean for you? Well, everything you do has that structure. Because if you're doing it...

• 24:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  What would you say? If you're doing it right, everything you do has that structure. Well, why? Well, if you're not moving somewhere better, why move? Right, so, and I'm really, I'm dead serious about this. Is that the motivation to move is allied with the faith that the place you're going is better. So what that means is, whether you know it or not, this is assuming you're not bitter, twisted, nihilistic, and downward aiming, right? I'm assuming that you're on the upward path. We can lay out the other alternatives as well. But for the sake of this presentation, we'll assume that what you're acting out is a comedy

• 24:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  with a happy ending, rather than a tragedy that culminates in catastrophe. Because you can act that out too. And if you don't know the story of your life, it might be that that's the one you're acting out. And you should probably figure that out. So, you're going to act out one story or another. Or it's going to use you as its agent. Those are the options. Upward aiming moves you from, what, from the undesirable state that you're in to the more desirable state that you're hoping to achieve. How is that portrayed in the Exodus story? What's the undesirable state?

• 25:38Jordan B. Peterson?

  Tyranny. Or more precisely, the dynamic between tyranny and slavery. Right, because those two things dance. You can't have one without the other. The Israelites are under the thumb of the pharaoh and the Egyptian state. They've been transformed into slaves, the ancient Hebrews, because they had the temerity to be successful. Right, so that's a story that's many thousands of years old. And it's the same story that's playing out on university campuses right now, right? The temerity of the Jews to be the successful minority. That's what dooms them to slavery in Egypt.

• 26:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  They arrive there as beneficial visitors under the authority of Joseph. And the new pharaoh forgets their contributions. And the resentful Egyptians, who are angry with the Hebrews for their success, turn them into slaves. And so, that's been going on for a very long period of time. And so, the Israelites are

• 26:50Jordan B. Peterson?

  burdened by the yoke of the tyrant. And a leader arises to speak for them. That's Moses. Okay, so who's Moses in relationship to you? Well, you might say, no one, because I'm not a leader. Or no one, because I'm not... Well, I'm not a member of the tribe of slaves. And I'm not... And I would say, well, you should rethink that. Because there's a fundamental significance to this story. And the story is trying to situate each person

• 27:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  in the actual landscape of human existence. And that landscape is characterized by tyranny and slavery. Always. Okay, so how can you understand that? Well, tyranny exists at multiple levels. Right, multiple levels of social reality. So, let's walk through. And I mean this, I don't just mean this metaphysically. I mean this in the case of actual tyranny as well. Don't be thinking that tyranny is just something political. That's a big mistake. It's something that exists at the level of... It exists in relationship... It exists in your relationship with yourself. You can be a tyrant to yourself, no problem. That's extremely common.

• 28:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  You have stubborn, foolish ideas that have possessed you,

• 28:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  whose origin you're unconscious of, that dominate you in ways that your slavish habits allow. And that's always the case. And that's just you as an individual. So, the part of you that has a redemptive quality, the part of you that could be a leader, could stand up against your tyranny to yourself and your proclivity to be a slave to that tyranny. And that's something you will wrestle with in your life. You as tyrant. You know, maybe you're a harsh taskmaster. You're hard on yourself. And you're using the stick instead of the carrot constantly. You force yourself to do things.

• 29:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  You exist in a relationship of power with regard to your present, and your past, and your future. You crush your desires. You force yourself to step forward in your traces. And you're a tyrant and a slave simultaneously. And in principle, you could rise above that and be an agent of transformation and escape from that dynamic. That dynamic doesn't only exist psychologically, let's say. Maybe that characterizes your marriage. Right, and that you're a tyrant, and your wife is a slave. Or she's a tyrant, and you're a slave. Or you take turns being tyrant and slave. But the relationship, the degenerate relationship has degenerated

• 29:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  in the direction of the expression of power. And that's the definition of a degenerate relationship. And so, you could be the tyrant in your marriage. Or you could be the slave in your marriage. Or you could...

• 30:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  Be whatever the alternative is to tyranny and slavery, and you could fight that battle out in your marriage, which you will, you will. It's like the definition of marriage that... And then it's the same with your family. Like, are you a tyrant to your kids? Or are you a slave to your two-year-old? That's more common now than the tyrannical situation. And so all that means is the two-year-old's the tyrant, which is very, very common. It's very, very common. It's very bad for a two-year-old to be the boss, because he knows he doesn't know anything, and he's already on top. It's like, what the hell is he gonna do for the rest of his life? So that means the two-year-old who's a tyrant

• 30:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  is immediately lost in the desert. Right? It's very, very bad. So you can be a slave to your children, you can be a tyrant. And then it's the same in relationship to your parents, and it's the same in relationship to your friends. Maybe you don't have friends. Maybe you're the sycophant to the local bully. Or maybe you're the bully and you have sycophants. Or... Or maybe you're such a slave to your appalling habits that you don't have any friends at all. So that just means your fantasies are tyrannical. Your fantasies of revenge and isolation. And then maybe, as a businessperson, you tyrannize over your employees. And maybe you try that with your customers,

• 31:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  which is not a good strategy, by the way. Right? It's not a good strategy with your employees either, that power dynamic. But... Power corrupts, as they say. And if you're in a position where you can wield the rod, the temptation to do so is something against which you will struggle. And that's part of the eternal dynamic of slavery and tyranny. And then it becomes more obvious when you start thinking about the community, or the state, or the nation. Well, that's usually where we think of tyranny residing. You can see that proclivity for tyranny now in the West

• 32:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  really start to invade the more local forms of community organization, the school boards and the municipalities that are taking... Or the universities, that are taking a vicious turn towards authoritarianism. And we know that that can possess a whole state. That happens repeatedly, and certainly a nation. And then you might say, "Well, what's a nation like when it's a tyranny?" And you might think Hitler, and Stalin, and Mao, and the freedom-loving people on whose neck the heel of authority rests. And that's complete bloody rubbish. That is not how a tyranny works. In a true tyranny, everyone is a tyrant to themselves.

• 33:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  Every self-tyrannizing thug is a tyrant to his wife. Every couple is a tyrant to their children. Every family is a tyrant to the neighbors. The tyranny in the slavery is everywhere at once. And that's a totalitarian state. That's why it's totalitarian. And along with that comes the grip of the lie. Every single person in that awful dynamic, slave to the totality, tyrant in the moment, every single one of those participants is lying about absolutely everything to themselves and to everyone they love 100% of the time.

• 33:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that's the story of hell. That's for sure. And so this landscape that's portrayed in Exodus, this is the human realm. This is the human realm. And the battle against tyranny and slavery in favor of the proper alternative, that's life. Really. Now, Moses becomes a leader. How? Well, that's interesting. Moses is transformed into a leader when he encounters the burning bush. So let me tell you that story, because this will tell you how to be a leader. It's a good thing to know.

• 34:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, unless you want to be a tyrant or a slave. And you can want both of those, maybe simultaneously. The tyrant has power and can gratify his whims, and the slave has no responsibility. So what a deal that is for the slave. And every tyrant needs a slave. And if you're not a leader, then you're a slave or a tyrant. Moses is out... Moses is an adult when he becomes a leader. That's a good story. It's like, how about you're an adult before you're a leader? Right? Something university students should be taught on campus. It's like, "You're 18. Seven years ago, you were 11.

• 35:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  You don't know anything. You're not a leader." Why? You're... Your parents subsidize you, or the state. You haven't had a job. You've never supported yourself. You don't have any children. You have no responsibility. It's like, you're not a leader. You're not gonna fix the world. You can't even keep your dorm room clean. Moses is an adult when the call comes for him to become a leader. He is married. He's established a good relationship with his father-in-law, Jethro,

• 35:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  who plays a very important role in the Exodus story. He's the kind of husband who chases away the thugs, which is how he meets his wife-to-be initially. She's trying to draw water from a well, and Moses is a master of water, by the way, like Christ. She's trying to draw water from a well, and there's thugs around the well site, and he chases them away. And so his future wife is pretty happy about this, as she should be, because Moses shows himself as the man who has enough spine to keep the thugs at bay. And that's the responsibility of any man

• 36:36Jordan B. Peterson?

  who's masculine in the fundamental sense, is to keep the true predators at bay. And that theme is amplified by his choice of profession. Moses is a shepherd as an adult, and that's not a high-status occupation. It's a working-class job. But it's a noble working-class job, and that's emphasized in the scriptures repeatedly, because the shepherd is very frequently the savior. David is a shepherd, for example. And Christ is a shepherd, in the metaphorical sense. And so why a shepherd? Well, it was a hard job being a shepherd in the ancient world.

• 37:22Jordan B. Peterson?

  You had to fend for yourself. You were isolated for long periods of time. You had to guard and defend the most vulnerable sheep. Lams, even more particularly, who are quite tender and delicious. And there were lions and wolves, and you had like a spear, and a shield, and a slingshot. And that's not a lot of armament to take on a lion, let's say. And so if you were a shepherd, you're an adult. And you could take care of things that were vulnerable, and you could keep the beasts of prey at bay. And that's what Moses was. He was having a pretty good time of it, being a shepherd. A credible job. He had a couple of wives. Got along with his father-in-law.

• 38:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  He was away from the tyrants, because he'd left Egypt. He's an adult. So now, one day, he's out with his sheep, wandering about in the wilderness. And he's near Mount Sinai, or Horeb. And Mount Sinai is a pyramid with its pinnacle in the clouds. It's the place where earth and heaven meet. Now, why is a mountain topped that place? Well, partly because "up" is good, so "up" is heavenward. Partly because as you climb a mountain, you rise above things. Partly because when you climb a mountain, you can see everything much more broadly. And that expansion of vision is associated with enlightenment and illumination,

• 38:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  with the ability to see widely and far. And so the mountain pyramid is a classic place where earth and heaven, which is the ultimate "up", meet. And many magical transformations happen at Mount Sinai. And...

• 39:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  La transformación de Mosesés en un líder es uno de ellos. Y así, va de punto A a B como un shepherd. Guidando a su flock. Y algo atrae su atención. Ahora, eso vale a saber. La gente en el mundo moderno

• 39:30Jordan B. Peterson?

  no tiene idea de dónde encontrar a Dios, por así decirlo. Creen que tienen que tener la fe en Dios, que es algo como la proclamación de un conjunto de creencias descriptivas. "Creo en Dios". Eso no es lo que pasa con Mosesés. Lo que pasa con Mosesés es que Dios se revela a Mosesés. Eso es un codo de pescado completamente diferente, podrías decir. ¿Y cómo ocurre eso? Bueno, necesitas saber esto porque te sucede y tú no lo notas. Y eso es un error. Así que Dios es caracterizado frecuentemente en los textos bíblicos como el Espíritu de la llamada. Ahora, esa no es su única caracterización.

• 40:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  Se caracteriza también en muchos sentidos como la consciencia, por ejemplo. La voz de la consciencia. Pero el Espíritu de la llamada es una caracterización primaria. El Espíritu de la llamada es aquello que te llena con entusiasmo, ¿verdad? El deseo de avanzar. Este placer analógico en el viaje hacia arriba. Eso es llamada. Y entusiasmo significa ser entusiasta, significa ser lleno del Espíritu de Dios. Porque la palabra raíz, "Entheos", "Theos" es "Deus". Es deidad, es Dios. Ser entusiasta es ser lleno del Espíritu del Divino. Así que eso es algo que también debes saber. ¿Qué te hace entusiasta?

• 41:00Jordan B. Peterson?

  ¿Qué te llama hacia adelante? Bueno,

• 41:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  tienes que notar y tienes que entender que te sacará del camino arruinado. Incluso si el camino que estás en es un camino adulto, maduro y útil. La llamada de lo que te transformará vendrá de un lado, por así decirlo, y te sacará del camino. Bien, ¿entonces cómo lo entiendes en tu vida? Bueno, ¿estás interesado en cosas? Y luego podrías pensar, bueno, ¿es una buena manera de decirlo? Estoy interesado en algo. Es como, no exactamente, ¿eh? Porque no puedes elegir lo que estás interesado en. Es más como lo que estás interesado en te elige a ti. ¿Verdad? Tú te encuentras interesado en algo.

• 41:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  Algo que te pide, un sueño, un deseo, una fantasía. Algo que te dice que podrías ser más que lo que eres y tu vida podría ser más que lo que es. Ahora, eso puede ser patológico. Puedes enfermar una falsa llamada y convertirte en delusión. Pero eso no tiene nada que ver con los fenómenos centrales.

• 42:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  Tus hijos se desarrollan y maduran como tú porque están llamados por el mundo para salir a lo largo de ellos. ¿Verdad? El Espíritu de la aventura los pide. Y hace eso como hace para ti al atrapar sus intereses.

• 42:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y eso es lo que es una llamada. Y así, esto es lo que pasa con Mosesés. Lleva de la esquina de sus ojos un espejo de algo brillante y brillante y pidiendo. Como el asqueroso que Harry Potter busca en el juego de Quidditch en la serie de Harry Potter. ¿Verdad? Ese juego meta que el buscador está jugando. Que si es exitoso también constituye la victoria en el juego real. ¿Verdad? Busca y encontrarás. Llamar y la puerta abrirá. Eso es lo que pasa con Mosesés. Algo le pide. Esto es algo que debes entender. Verás en tu vida que las cosas te llaman

• 43:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  y que hay algo detrás de lo que te llama. Bueno, ¿qué es lo que está detrás de lo que te llama? A medida que tu meta se transforma a medida que avanzas hacia arriba. Bueno, clásicamente, ese es el espíritu del dios ancestral de Abraham y Isaac. Es una definición.

• 43:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  ¿Verdad? Así que Dios se manifesta en lo que te llama hacia arriba. Y eso es tan útil de saber porque no importa dónde empieces. El shepherd mordor, ahí es donde empieza Mosesés. Fue a Egipto. Fue a Egipto porque mató a alguien. Empieza en un lugar bastante duro. Es como, bueno, puedes empezar en un lugar duro. Bueno, ¿cómo? Bueno, apunta hacia arriba. Bueno, no sé dónde está arriba. Es el opuesto a abajo. ¿De acuerdo? Estoy muy serio sobre eso. No me importa cuán confundido estés. Hay algunas cosas estúpidas que estás haciendo que sabes que son estúpidas. Sabes que te están perdiendo. Por tu propia definición, lo sabes con certeza. Deja de hacer esas.

• 44:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  Eso es un comienzo, eso es un objetivo hacia arriba. Bueno, ¿y por qué? Porque vas a dejar de hacer cosas estúpidas para que tu vida se mejore. Es una proclamación de una decisión hecha en la fe. Las cosas podrían ser mejores. Puedo tomar acción.

• 44:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si incluso apenas aprecias la siguiente etapa de arriba, estás en el camino. Y si lo haces más cerca de ese próximo arriba, tu visión se clarará y la próxima destino se hará conocida. Y esa es la escalera de Jacob, por cierto. Que espirala hacia arriba para siempre con el dios de los antiguos judíos pidiendo al apíx. Esa es una definición. Es que Dios es el espíritu que está detrás de todo lo que te llama. ¿Verdad? Detrás del amor, detrás de la curiosidad, detrás de la esperanza. Detrás de esa compulsión de interés que te saca hacia el camino de tu destino.

• 45:16Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y he entrevistado a muchas personas que han sido muy exitosas. Y a menudo les pregunto cómo su llamada se manifestó en su vida. Y es a menudo muy temprano, estas personas. Jocko Willink, por ejemplo, que es este crudo de un soldado que es de tres pies de alto. De esta manera, como bastante el monstruo sangriento. Y un hombre muy bueno, pero con toda la capacidad de ser un hombre muy malo. Y sabía que iba a ser un soldado cuando tenía como tres. Y estoy seguro de que sus padres lo sabían también porque imagino que era uno de esos niños que iba corriendo por la casa disparando al gato con una tuba de plástico. Sabes, así que la gente tiene su patrón de interés

• 45:59Jordan B. Peterson?

  muy, muy joven, a menudo. No siempre, pero a menudo se manifesta y los lleva. Y eso está en ti. Y tal vez lo reprimas, tal vez te temes de ello porque piensas que te engañarás. No piensas que lo tienes en ti o no quieres la responsabilidad. Pero, hombre, rechazas la llamada a tu gran peligro. ¿Verdad? Literalmente el peligro de tu alma y empeoras en todo haciendo eso. Porque si no sigues lo que te llama, no te conviertes en quien podrías ser. Y luego el mundo es un lugar menor y más malvado debido a esa suerte. Y eso está en ti. Como, ¿serio? Eso está en ti y te sientes en la inútilidad y la tristeza y la miseria de tu vida errada.

• 46:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  Esa es la voz de la consciencia diciéndote que el camino de la irresponsabilidad que eligiste en preferencia a la llamada es el camino hacia el自 mismo. Y no solo para ti. Y eso, hombre, esa es la verdad brutal. Y así Mosesés tiene suficiente fe para desviarse del camino. Para investigar, lo que ve es un árbol quemado. Bueno, ¿por qué un árbol? ¿Cuál es el árbol de la vida? Bueno, ¿por qué un árbol? Bueno, un árbol está vivo y se ramona hacia arriba y crece de nada, de una pequeña semilla a esta magnífica cosa que extiende sus hojas hacia el sol. Y el árbol es la vida mismo.

• 47:28Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y está en fuego porque las cosas vivas están en fuego. Y así es como la esencia de la vida se magnifica. Eso es lo que es un árbol quemado. Y eso es lo que ves cuando ves. Me tomé a mi hija cuando tenía unos 16 meses hasta este cabin en el norte de Saskatchewan, que es una provincia, una provincia rural que es mayoritariamente habitada por personas viejas. Y tomamos a mi hija a este cabin con mis padres. Y tenían a muchos de sus amigos, todos retirees. Y mi hija era una hija muy feliz. Y ella desvió en este pequeño cabin, habitación jugando y jugando felizmente. Y, ya sabes, en fuego como los niños pequeños son.

• 48:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y todos esos abuelos, simplemente se sentaron y la miraron como si estuvieran mirando el fuego mismo. Y eso es porque lo fueron. Y hay un brillo en eso, ¿sabes? Esa atractividad de los niños que es la revelación de la posibilidad infinita y la bendición del, ¿qué? El espíritu de la infancia desentrambado. Ese intento expansivo de revelar la luz y avanzar hacia arriba. Y estaban atrapados por eso, como los viejos sabios son. Y Mosesés se encuentra con eso, como tú. Cuando algo te atrapa o cuando algo te hace amarlo o algo te llama hacia adelante. ¿Qué es eso? Bueno, es el espíritu de la vida mismo llamándote.

• 48:57Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y podrías decir, bueno, ese es el instinto para el desarrollo. Y yo diría, está bien, no me importa si quieres pensar en ello desde una perspectiva biológica. No hace ninguna diferencia. Tienes un instinto o impulso para continuamente madurar y desarrollar hacia más que lo que eres. Está bien, no importa cómo construyas eso en algún sentido fundamental. El instinto y el religioso se alinean en cualquier caso. Y Mosesés investiga. Y mientras investiga, primero se deshace de sus zapatos y eso es un signo de respeto. Quiere tocar el suelo de nuevo, para esparcir cualquier cosa que lo separa de lo más real.

• 49:40Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y al deshacerse de sus zapatos, también abandona su identidad actual. Los zapatos significan identidad. Los zapatos son parte de la uniforme de trabajo, digamos. Hay zapatos de soldados, hay zapatos rojos de Dorothy en El Wizard de Oz. Hay las camisetas de la princesa.

• 50:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  Los zapatos significan tu camino actual y Mosesés los pone en la tierra porque está listo para cambiar, lo que tienes que ser si sigues el llamado que te saca del camino hacia el destino caracterizado por la revelación de quién podrías ser. Y Mosesés continúa confirmando este fenómeno que lo atrae y lo lleva más y más profundamente. Y eso es lo que pasa en tu vida y lo sabes porque tal vez has comprometido de alguna manera

• 50:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  a una desviación personal, a algún hobby, a algún interés obsesivo que te saca de tu identidad mundane hacia el dominio de tus intereses y te concentraste en ello profundamente y aprendiste mucho debido a tu búsqueda. Y en ese aprendizaje, te profundizaste cada vez más en las cosas, comenzaste a entender... Había un amigo, un profesor que empezó a recoger tarjetas cuando tenía 55 años. Piensas, ¿recoger tarjetas? Sabes, es una ocupación bastante mundane. Pero viajó por todo el Reino Unido para encontrar estas tarjetas y habló con todas estas personas que recogían.

• 51:19Jordan B. Peterson?

  Recogió tarjetas antiguas y eso lo llevó mucho más en contacto con la historia de su país y se convirtió en un amateur muy aviso histórico. Todo lo que se toma en serio lleva a todo lo demás, ¿verdad? Todo lo que es verdadero y real con el que interactúas participa en la estructura de la realidad misma y si lo tomas en serio lo suficiente, entonces esa realidad se hará conocida para ti. ¿Y cuál es la consecuencia de eso? Bueno, lo que pasa con Mosesés es que Dios mismo habla desde las profundidades del árbol de la vida quemada. Y eso es lo que pasa cuando tomas algo en serio lo suficiente para ir profundo. Eso es lo que pasa con ti. Y entonces, ¿qué pasa con Mosesés?

• 52:03Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bueno, Dios dice: "Soy quien soy. Soy el Espíritu del Ser mismo. Soy lo que siempre ha sido y lo que es ahora y lo que siempre será. Y eso es lo que te llama y te está diciendo que te pones en la tierra de quién eres y te conviertas en quien podrías ser. Y Mosesés dice: "¿Quién es eso?" Y Dios dice: "El líder que lleva a la eternidad a las personas de la tirana y el deseo de la esclavitud". Y Mosesés dice: "¿Quién me escuchará?" Y Dios dice: "Si les dices que te envié, escucharán". Y piensas, ¿qué significa eso? Es como, bueno, si escuchas a alguien que está profundamente involucrado contándote de lo que sabe, lo escuchas.

• 52:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bueno, ¿por qué? Porque su discurso tiene la carisma de la verdad y puedes decir eso. Quiero decir, puedes ser engañado. Un charlatán y un psicópata pueden fingir eso, pero no por mucho tiempo. Eso es lo que hacen los magos del tribunal y el tribunal de los faros cuando amenazan con la magia. Pero también hay magia real y esa es la magia de alguien que ha ido profundo. Y Mosesés dice: "Bueno, soy lento de boca, no soy mucho de un orador". Y Dios dice: "Ese es tu problema, amigo. Súcalo". ¿Y qué significa eso? Es como, mientras tienes tus problemas y tus insuficiencias, tus áreas de ningún talento, digamos, y sin duda te consuelas con la proposición de que en tu estado erróneo

• 53:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  está bien que te pongas en el asiento trasero porque, ¿qué podrías hacer de todos modos? Y eso es simplemente incorrecto. Es como que te están llamando a hacer lo que puedas, sin importar tus errores, porque si no fuera así, nadie nunca se habría llamado a hacer nada, porque no hay nadie sin sus errores requisitos y sus habilidades, sus talentos. Ambos son únicos y es tu destino competir con ellos. Y Dios dice: "Bueno, el hecho de que no puedas hablar no hay problema para mí porque soy Dios y he hecho todo, así que realmente no tienes que preocuparte por eso ser un impedimento". Y luego dice más prácticamente: "¿No tienes un hermano, Aaron? ¿No puede hablar?" Mosesés dice: "Sí". Y Dios dice: "Bueno, ¿por qué no lo llevas a la ride?" ¿Y cuál es la sabiduría en eso?

• 54:17Jordan B. Peterson?

  Es, bueno, si sigues el llamado y te están llamando a ser más que tú y tienes impedimentos en tu camino, no tienes que hacerlo solo. Puedes encontrar a otras personas para llevar la aventura con ustedes y hay suficiente sangre de aventura para ellos también. No es como que tengan que tomar el asiento trasero. No es un juego de ganas de ganas. Hay más que suficiente para todos. Hay suficiente dificultad en la vida para que todos puedan luchar hasta el máximo y no exagerar la posibilidad, ¿verdad? Todo eso haría es hacer más posibilidades, ¿verdad? La vida no es un juego de ganas de ganas y es una proposición corrupta de hipotéticas. Otras cosas, no hay suficiente para todos.

• 55:01Jordan B. Peterson?

  ¿Qué significa eso? Bueno, mejor que haya suficiente para mí, ¿verdad? Porque esa es la primera cosa que se le ocurre a la mente. Es como, no, hay mucho problema para todos. Así que no tienes que preocuparte si no estás listo para el trabajo, si puedes asociarte con otros y tienes la humildad de entender quiénes pueden ser, bueno, cuanto más, más.

• 55:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  Así que Mosesés vuelve a Egipto y se le dice a Dios que se enfrenten a la tirana.

• 55:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y eso es una mierda de una cosa, pero eso es...

• 55:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si no quieres ser esclavo y no quieres estar

• 55:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  encerrado por tu presumptiva de tu propia ordinariedad, si no quieres ser estéril y frío y convertido en piedra sin vida, si no quieres ser una ramada muerta, entonces mejor aprende a hablar con la tirana. ¿Y cómo lo haces? Bueno, le dices la verdad, ¿verdad? Y eso es lo que supera la tirania. Y Dios dice a Mosesés algo muy específico, lo cual es muy valioso saber, muy relevante para la historia que estamos contando. Dios le dice a Mosesés: "Vete al faro y le dices esto muy específicamente. Dices: "Dios me ha ordenado que te diga: "Deja a mi gente ir".

• 56:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  ¿Verdad? Esa es una frase muy famosa. Todos ustedes estadounidenses lo conocen del movimiento de los derechos civiles. "Deja a mi gente ir". Ese fue el llamado clarion parte de la Revolución Americana, ciertamente el llamado clarion para el movimiento de los derechos civiles en la década de 1960, que usó el tema de la Exodisa repetidamente como un motivo motivador y unido. Pero eso no es lo que Dios dice a Mosesés. Él dice: "Dile al faro que deje a mi gente ir para que puedan me adorar en la selva". ¿Verdad? Y él no dice eso solo una vez. Él dice que una vez por plaga. Exactamente esas palabras y eso es muy relevante porque

• 57:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  lo que Dios establece como la alternativa a la tirania no es la libertad anarquista hedonista. Esa no es la dinámica. La dinámica es el estado correctamente estructurado como el antítesis de la tirania y la esclavitud. Por supuesto, eso pregunta: ¿cuál es el estado correctamente estructurado? ¿Verdad? Y puedes pensar en ese estado de varias maneras. Puedes pensar en él como el estado de tu mente. Puedes pensar en él como el estado de tu casa. Puedes pensar en él como el estado de la nación. No importa. Es el mismo patrón en todos los diferentes niveles de análisis potencial.

• 57:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  ¿Cuál es el estado correcto que caracteriza la alternativa a la tirania y la esclavitud? Puedes pensar que la tirania y la esclavitud son opuestos, aunque danzan pervertidamente juntos. Pero hay una alternativa que se opone a ambos y ese es el misterio. Esa es la historia correcta. ¿Cuál es la alternativa que se opone a la tirania y la esclavitud? Bueno, Mosesés confronta al faro y realiza su magia, que los magos del tribunal pueden duplicar por los primeros cuatro o cinco trucos. Y luego, como los charlatanes de las tiranas quieren hacer, sus trucos fallan.

• 58:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  Mosesés advierte al faro: "Deja a mi gente ir para que puedan me adorar en la selva". ¿O, o qué? ¿O el infierno se va a deshacer? ¿Qué significa eso en relación a la tirania? Bueno, ¿cuántas veces te has quedado en algo estúpido para torturarte y ni siquiera has aprendido de eso? Bueno, esa es la naturaleza de la tirana. ¿Qué hace la tirana? Una tirana es la persona que se niega a aprender de sus propios errores. ¿Y qué pasa si se niega a aprender de sus propios errores? Bueno, eso es fácil. Cada error se pone peor. Y eso es lo que pasa con los faros y los egipcios.

• 59:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  Primero de todo, el mundo se cae. Las plagas salen de debajo, así que se diga. El mundo natural rebellenza y luego los cielos se caen y la oscuridad cae. Y luego el futuro mismo se destruye y esa es la muerte del nacido primero. Y la moral de esa historia es que si eres tiránico lo suficiente y se niegas a aprender en la cara de la evidencia subir, no solo destruirás el presente, destruirás el futuro. Y eso es lo que pasa con los egipcios y eso es lo que pasa con todos los que insisten en permanecer

• 59:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  como tirana absolutamente correcto en la cara de toda la evidencia desconfirmada. Y el opuesto de eso es la humildad. Es como, tal vez estés equivocado, es por eso que estás miserable. Y así te rezas: "Dios me revela los manifiestos modos en los que la tirania de mis presumptivas me hace equivocarme". Esa es una oración que se responderá a la gran alegría de todos los que conoces.

• 1:00:21Jordan B. Peterson?

  The pharaoh refuses that and brings devastation on his state. And of course, that's what tyrants do. So there's nothing about that that isn't true. The Egyptians leave, they despoil, the Israelites leave, they despoil the Egyptians. The Egyptians leave their treasure on the table for the Israelites to take. Well, what does that mean? Took me a long time to figure that out. It's like, well, what happens in a tyranny? This is what's happened in the universities. People in a tyranny forget what's valuable. They just forget it. It's like, they're so warped that they think that the true value lies somewhere else. So the universities have left truth, beauty, justice, the scientific method and the entire

• 1:01:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  religious tradition on the table. For what? For anyone to take and use. It's like, well, if you're gonna leave that behind, someone's gonna pick it up because that's where the treasure is. And that's what happens to the Israelites when they leave Egypt. They take the treasure with them. Because the tyrant forgets what it is. And so, now they're in the desert, they cross the Red Sea. Why? Well, look, man, when you first escape from the tyranny of your own presumptions, there's gonna be some cataclysm associated with that. You know what it's like to learn something painfully? Right? It just about kills you. You were so wrong that you almost die to learn.

• 1:01:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so that's the Red Sea, that's the sea of blood that wipes out the tyrant. And Moses can weave his way across that chaos, maybe in one fell swoop, or maybe, there's traditions differ in this, maybe by sealing his way across carefully, like someone who's thoughtful does. And the Israelites cross the Red Sea of catastrophic, cataclysmic destruction of the tyranny. And they end up not in the Promised Land. And this is something to know, and this is part of the story. Why do people stubbornly adhere to their, to the beliefs that make even them miserable tyrants?

• 1:02:30Jordan B. Peterson?

  And the answer is, better the tyranny than the desert. Right? Better a certainty that's false than a confusion that's real. Or that's what people are afraid of. It's like, I can't let go of that. Where would I be? And the answer is, lost in the desert for three generations. Right? The poor Israelites, it's like a short trip, geographically. I heard the other day that your state spent 11 billion dollars building 1,600 feet of high-speed rail. Eighty million dollars a foot. Okay, how do you account for that?

• 1:03:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  If you're confused enough, it takes you forever and costs everything to do nothing. Right? Well, that's the condition. There's no limit to the amount of time and money you can waste if you're confused enough. Right? And so that's, and the Israelites are confused. They have the habits of slaves. Right? So they don't know anything. They're not used to taking care of themselves. They don't take responsibility. And the tyrant's gone, and so they're wandering, lost. Moses and God guide them.

• 1:03:51Jordan B. Peterson?

  But it's a rough journey, and it takes them a long time to shed the habits of slaves. While they're in the desert, they bitch and whine and moan and complain and lose faith constantly. They lose faith in Moses, they curse God, they doubt the existence of the Promised Land, and worse, they pine for the bloody tyranny. Well, didn't we have it good, under the thumb of the Egyptians? At least we weren't wandering around in the desert. Right? And that's, that's that false nostalgia for the pathological past that characterizes a kind of sentimental, the worst of a blinkered sentimental conservatism. You saw this emerge in the Soviet Union.

• 1:04:35Jordan B. Peterson?

  You know, in the midst of the 90s, everyone over 50 was pining for Stalin. You know, at least, at least everyone knew where they were then. You know, that false nostalgia for the previous tyranny, another impediment to growth. You won't let go of your own iron grip on your soul because you'll be in the desert and you'll be so lost there that you'll wish that you were back in the grip of the idiot ideology that had you under its thumb. And that's what happens to the Israelites. They're the whiniest lot, constantly fighting with each other. Why? Well, they have the habits of slaves. They don't know how to negotiate, they don't know how to organize themselves into a community,

• 1:05:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  they don't know how to take responsibility. They're used to being ordered around, which of course makes you a slave, and I suppose there's some misery in that, but you don't have to bloody well think, do you? You don't have to take any responsibility. And that's what the tyrannical state always offers, idiot slaves, is, you won't have to think, you won't have to take any responsibility, everything will be done for you. It's like, well, everything? Why should I even be around then? Well, that turns out to be a major problem for people in a tyranny. It's like the utter meaninglessness of a life that's run according to, you know, a top-down, patterned order. There's no adventure in that. All the adventure is in the responsibility.

• 1:06:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that's what's vacuumed up by the tyrants when the people themselves become irresponsible and slavish. Right? And so all of you who are sitting there, one of the questions I was gonna ask you tonight is, how many of you take an active role in your political, in the, in the political realm? And you can ask yourself that, and, and here's something to think about. It's like, for all you decent citizens who abdicate political responsibility, you need to understand that that void will be filled by tyrants. Right? So it's either you or the tyrants. That's the option. So if it's not you, and you're wondering why there's a lot of tyrants, it's because it's not you.

• 1:06:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so, and we'll get to that, I'll, I'll explain why that's the case. So now the Israelites are out in the desert, bitching and moaning and whining and fighting with each other because they don't have enough sense to settle their own, their own disputes. And they start to pine for the pharaoh, who was always there when they needed him, and they set up Moses as a judge. And so he sits from morning till night, judging the Israelites, listening to all their petty complaints and adjudicating. Right? And you can imagine, that's, that's a very difficult job, to take all that responsibility onto yourself. And at that point, Moses' father-in-law, Jethro, shows back up.

• 1:07:26Jordan B. Peterson?

  And he's a good guy, Jethro, a benevolent foreigner, pattern of character in the biblical corpus. The foreigner who has the wisdom that the tyrannical state has abandoned. Right? So the foreigner as agent of transformation, that's Jethro. He comes and he sees Moses out there in the desert, visiting his, he's come for a visit to his son-in-law, and he sees Moses sitting from dawn till midnight, judging the Israelites. And he says, you gotta stop doing that. And Moses says, well, why? You know, the people need me. And Jethro says, well, there's two reasons fundamentally. First of all, you're gonna, no one can do this. You can't take the weight of 150,000 people onto yourself. That's too much.

• 1:08:10Jordan B. Peterson?

  You're just, you can't handle it. It's too much for you. It's too much for one man. And then he says, but there's something worse. This is not good for the Israelites. It's like, they're trying to make you into another pharaoh. They're abandoning the necessity to make responsible judgments for themselves. They're pushing it up the political hierarchy. They wanna turn themselves into slaves and you into the king. And eventually, the Israelites demand a king. This is much later in the biblical stories, they demand a king, because everyone else has one, and God keeps saying, you don't want a king. You could do things yourself. And the Israelites think, we'd rather have a king. And God says, well, you know, those kings, they tend to turn into tyrants.

• 1:08:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  And the Israelites say, well, as long as we get to be irresponsible, we don't care if we have a tyrant. And so they end up with the kings. And that's not a good deal. And that's something your country realized a long time ago. Right? When it was founded, that responsible citizens don't need a king. Why? Because they do the bloody work themselves. And what's the utility in that? Well, then you get to have a life.

• 1:09:20Jordan B. Peterson?

  Así que eso es lo que Jethro dice a Mosesés. Es una de las partes más brillantes, una parte muy corta de la historia bíblica. Él dice: "Mira, esto es lo que tienes que hacer. Tienes que tomar a todas estas personas y tienes que hacer una jerarquía de ellos. Y aquí es como lo haces. Encontrar grupos familiares, grupos de 10 personas y hacerles nominar un líder. Y luego cuando alguien de esos 10 tenga algo de qué burlarse, pueden traer sus problemas al líder y él puede resolverlo. Y luego, tal vez ahora y luego habrá un problema que el líder de 10 no puede adjudicar. Y así, pon a los líderes en grupos y luego déjalos elegir a otro líder.

• 1:10:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y luego, si una disputa no puede ser resuelta localmente, puede subir una ronda al siguiente nivel de autogobierno y hacerlo hasta los grupos de 10.000. Y luego puedes ponerte en la cima y cualquier disputa que no esté resuelta mientras sube la jerarquía de responsabilidad puede llegar a ti y puedes tener un chat con Dios sobre ello. Y eso aliviará la excesiva carga de responsabilidad que has tomado orgullosamente en tu deseo inconsciente de convertirte en el nuevo faro, porque el pullazo de poder es una tentación para Mosesés. Y será muy bueno para los malditos israelitas porque tendrán que dejar de ser esclavos inmaduros y averiguar cómo resolver sus propios problemas.

• 1:10:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y luego no necesitarán a un tiro de sangre y eso es el establecimiento de lo que se llama la principio de subsidiariedad, que es una doctrina central en la teoría social católica. Y la doctrina es: la alternativa a la tiranía y la esclavitud es una jerarquía de responsabilidad distribuida. Comenzando con el individuo, tienes algo que hacer.

• 1:11:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  Moverse a la familia, al matrimonio, el pareja es una unidad de responsabilidad. Moverse de ahí a la familia, otra unidad de responsabilidad. De ahí a la comunidad local y luego al estado y luego a la nación. Con la responsabilidad distribuida, bajar esa jerarquía tan lejos como sea posible. Entonces no necesitas un rey, entonces no estás bajo la palma de la tiranía y no eres esclavo. ¿Y qué requiere? requiere la adopción voluntaria de la responsabilidad máxima. Y eso es, ¿cuál es el beneficio? Tienes que ser un hombre o una mujer que es madura e integrada y contribuyendo a la comunidad de una manera significativa.

• 1:11:46Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y soportar el peso de traer el orden que es bueno al mundo sobre tus propios hombros. ¿Y cuál es el beneficio por eso? Bueno, puedes hacerlo y sucede y no necesitas un rey y no eres esclavo, pero hay más a eso que eso. Es lo mismo como tener una aventura, ¿verdad?, para tomar esa responsabilidad. Eso es lo que te da valor, incluso en tus propios ojos, ¿sabes? Esa habilidad de tomar parte de la carga del mundo sobre tus propios hombros o tal vez mucho de ello, no solo para ti, sino también para tu esposa, para tu esposo y para tus hijos y para tu ciudad y tu comunidad, ¿verdad? Y puedes ver entonces que eres un lugar de estabilidad y transformación positiva operando en el mundo y no hay nada que sea más significativo que eso.

• 1:12:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y no hay diferencia entre eso y establecer la covenia adecuada con el dios que se sienta en la cima de la escalera eterna de Jacob. Todo es lo mismo. Y lo que eso significa es que un ciudadano responsable y godafurioso es no más bajo la espalda de un tirano y no más atacado por los blandizos hedonísticos del esclavo irresponsable. Y eso es un gran negocio. Y una de las cosas que es muy útil para ustedes, estadounidenses, en particular, para entender es esa es la historia de tu país, como seriamente. Y tu país es muy funcionario y la mayoría de ustedes admira el éxito y esta es una sociedad notablemente no envidiosa.

• 1:13:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  Es increíblemente productiva y hospitable y confiante y generosa. Remarcadamente así, únicamente así en el mundo y únicamente así en la historia del mundo. ¿Y por qué? Porque adoptaste una estructura subsidiaria de autogobierno y adoptaste los roles voluntarios de los ciudadanos que tomaron la carga de la gobernanza sobre ellos mismos. Y mira lo que pasó. No pierdas eso, no pierdas eso, el mundo depende de eso.

• 1:13:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y así, ¿cuál es la historia? ¿Cuál es la historia? Bueno, vas de punto A a B, ¿verdad? Y es punctuado. ¿Es tiranía de la que estás tratando de escapar? ¿O un estado de esclavitud? Hay algo malo con donde estás, ¿en qué vas? En algún lugar mejor o no querrías ir allí. Ese es el movimiento eterno hacia arriba, hacia la tierra prometida, hacia arriba hacia la montaña santa, hacia el reino de los cielos, hacia la ciudad celestial de Jerusalén, al lugar donde las luces están en la montaña, ¿verdad? Todos entienden esa imagen, ahí es en qué vas. Eso es lo que te motiva en la vida, eso te une, eso une a la comunidad.

• 1:14:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Alrededor de la ruta dejas la tiranía y no es un viaje lineal hacia arriba. Es un viaje punctuado porque terminas en el desierto. Es una consecuencia de tu idiotez previa y la negación de aprender. Tienes que luchar caóticamente en ese desierto para volver a estar de nuevo. Y lo haces organizando tú mismo correctamente, psicológicamente y en la comunidad y adoptando la responsabilidad por tu destino. Y luego puedes sojearte en la compañía de Dios hacia la tierra prometida, ¿verdad? Y esa es la historia de la vida y es verdad.

• 1:15:11Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y ese es el final de eso.

• 1:15:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  Gracias, gracias, gracias. Eso es bastante un viaje de Egipto a través del desierto hasta el threshold de la tierra prometida. Es una historia de la que es seguro. Y es una historia que vale la pena conocer y vale la pena entender porque es una historia sobre ti. Como justo en el núcleo. Sabes, es una historia sobre lo que todos podrían ser si hablan con la voz de un llamado a una aventura. Y es una historia sobre cómo una psique armoniosa y un estado productivo armonioso pueden ser establecidos por personas que están dispuestas a soportar la responsabilidad de su propia vida. No hay diferencia entre eso y sacudir la cruz, es la misma idea, ¿verdad?

• 1:16:07Jordan B. Peterson?

  Y hemos fundado nuestras comunidades en Occidente en la imagen de la cruz por exactamente esa razón. Porque a un nivel profundamente inconsciente, a un nivel profundamente implícito, entendemos que el sacrificio autoresponsable es el alma de la comunidad. Y eso es verdad, obviamente. Obviamente, si vas a organizarte comunidadalmente, vas a renunciar a tu individualidad impulsiva. No hay diferencia entre eso y el sacrificio, no hay diferencia entre eso y la madurez. Obviamente, ese es el camino para la integración psicológica y la armonía social, ¿verdad?

• 1:16:48Jordan B. Peterson?

  El patrón humano de la existencia es el sacrificio autoresponsable, ¿verdad? Y ese es el mensaje que está en el núcleo de la biblioteca bíblica y en el centro de la etnia cristiana. ¿Ves?, se refleja en la historia de Abraham, ¿verdad? Él es llamado incluso a sacrificar a su hijo. Todo se ofrece hacia arriba en el proceso de sacrificio que estabiliza la comunidad y transforma al individuo, ¿verdad? Y esa es la historia de la que se funda Occidente. Es la historia que a lo largo de lo que dices ves el mundo a través de. ¿Verdad? Y estamos en peligro de olvidar eso y esa es una idea muy, muy, muy mala.

• 1:17:31Jordan B. Peterson?

  Si olvidas la verdad, vives en falsedad y no hay diferencia entre eso y estar en el infierno. Y así, Dios, ayúdanos a evitar eso, eso es seguro.

• 1:17:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  Bien, voy a pedir a mi hija que vuelva a la escena y ella va a

• 1:17:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  ella va a seleccionar algunas preguntas del público que eran lo suficientemente amables y interesados para ofrecer y lo harán durante 23 minutos, aparentemente. Y eso será la noche.

• 1:18:17Speaker 03

  That was great.

• 1:18:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  Thank you, dear. I opened you one already.

• 1:18:20Speaker 03

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  Nailed it, yeah.

• 1:18:25Jordan B. Peterson?

  Yeah, well, that's such a fun story. Such a remarkable story, you know, every one of it, every detail in those stories is stunningly worth evaluating. You find these little treasures hidden in the stories that you just... I'll give you an example. This is so funny. There's a, there's a scene of rebellion in the Exodus story near the end. Like, the Israelites have just about made it to the promised land, and this guy named Koresh gets bitchy, like the Israelites always do. And he goes to Moses, and this is literally what he says. He says, "I've got together with some of my guys. We're feeling, we're feeling kind of victimized and oppressed. And we think that you've done everything you've done just to gain power for yourself."

• 1:19:11Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? It's exactly what the radical critics of Western civilization are screeching about now. Everyone who's successful is a victimizer. Yeah, well, there isn't a more pathological story than that. I tell you, when your culture starts to identify success with criminality, you're in serious trouble. You criminalize success. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that process, that process, by the way, historically often starts with demonization of the Jews. Because the Jews have the temerity to be a successful minority. And the successful, in any dimension, are always a minority.

• 1:19:55Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so, the Jews are the canary in the coal mine. When, when the thugs and the resentful monsters of Luciferian rebellion come crawling out from underneath their rocks, they point to the Jews first and portray them as victimizers because of their success. And people abandon them, not understanding that the target isn't the Jews. The target is those who have the temerity to be successful. And the Jews fall first, but they're not the last to fall. And if you can't see that unfolding in what's in front of you right now, you are not paying attention, and that's a bad idea.

• 1:20:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  So, so Koresh has this rebellion against Moses, and it's a victim-victimizer narrative. And the consequence of that is the earth swallows up Koresh and all his followers. Right, yeah, well, so, you know,

• 1:20:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  play victim-victimizer and just watch what happens. So, and hopefully, we'll have enough wisdom to not let that go too far. But we'll see, won't we? We'll see. We'll hope.

• 1:21:17Speaker 03

  Are you ready?

• 1:21:21Speaker 03

  I'm starting with a light one.

• 1:21:25Speaker 03

  How do you see the archetype of Satan in today's society?

• 1:21:34Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, probably the most interesting manifestation is related to the Tower of Babel. So, the Tower of Babel is a pyramid of Babylon, right? Babel is Babylon. And at the time the story was created, there were multiple city-state kingdoms in the Middle East. And all of the tyrants, all the petty would-be tyrants in those states, who tried to make themselves into gods, built pyramids, towers, in competition to see who could build the highest tower. And that was a testament to their own god-like status, let's say.

• 1:22:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so, you know, that still happens today, as cities compete to see who can build the tallest building. And there's something in that that is, you know, emblematic of genuine technical striving. And the cathedrals, of course, of Europe had that proclivity to be the tallest structure in the community. But of course, they were, they were, what, consecrated to God, so not to the local bloody thug.

• 1:22:46Jordan B. Peterson?

  The Tower of Babel is a monument to human presumption. And the builders of the Tower of Babel were the engineers. And that's what's happening in today's society, is that the engineers build Towers of Babel to their own intellectual presumption. And that's happening everywhere. And

• 1:23:09Jordan B. Peterson?

  why the engineers? Because the engineers are, I like engineers, by the way, don't get me wrong. We're talking about something very specific here. Engineers have a proclivity to worship technology. And that's a bad idea, because technology can help us solve our problems if we're upward-oriented. But orientation towards technology is not an upward orientation. It has to be put in its proper place. And if you put technology at the pinnacle, which is what the builders of the Tower of Babel do, you build false, you build false monuments to the wrong god. Well, what god? Well, imagine the worship of technology is associated with the, what would you say? Elevation of intellect to the highest place, something like that.

• 1:23:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  Look how smart we are. Well, the spirit of intellectual presumption, that's Lucifer.

• 1:24:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  Right? Because Lucifer is the intellect that worships itself and believes that it should take the place of God. And that produces this Luciferian technological presumption that produces Towers of Babel. What happens when you produce a Tower of Babel? Everyone speaks a different language. Why? Because no one's united psychologically or communally towards the proper highest aim. And so, no one can understand each other anymore. Everyone speaks a different language. Commentators on this story say, "Well, that was a primitive way of explaining why there's so many languages." It's like, "Hey, guys, you seriously missed the point." Like, seriously, right? It's a story of technological presumption.

• 1:24:46Jordan B. Peterson?

  Why do people start speaking different languages? Because unity of apprehension makes words comprehensible. What do I mean by that? What is a woman? That's what I mean by that. Right? Okay, so, so

• 1:25:05Jordan B. Peterson?

  so we don't know. And so, what does that mean? It means the most fundamental words are now, have now gone askew in their meaning. Well, why? Because we're, we inhabit the wrong towers. Like, seriously. I tell you, I truly believe this as a psychologist who's looked deeply into such things. Inability, there is no confusion deeper than inability or refusal to distinguish the sexes. Creatures without nervous systems can tell the difference between male and female. Right? I'm serious about that. Right? From an evolutionary perspective,

• 1:25:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  we have been able to make that discrimination for 650 million years. That's a long time. It's more fundamental than up and down, or black and white, or night and day. It's the most fundamental,

• 1:26:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  verbally signified reality. If you're confused about that, then everyone speaks a different language. And that's in no small consequence the result of our, what would you say, mind-addling Luciferian technological presumption. I know those things are tangled together oddly, but the world's an odd place. And

• 1:26:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  you can see the fractionation in our ability to communicate occurring as we produce Facebook, as we produce Twitter, as we produce these new landscapes of presumption that destroy, threaten our ability to communicate. It's presumption that's doing that. It's Luciferian presumption. You know, there's nothing wrong with the intellect, but it's a terrible master. It's a great servant, but it is a terrible master. And one of the temptations of those with the intelligence to manipulate technology

• 1:27:15Jordan B. Peterson?

  is to place the worship of their own intellect at the highest pinnacle. And then it's Luciferian instantly, and that is a bad thing. It's always been a terrible thing. It's no better now. Worse, probably, because we're so technologically powerful. You know, if we, if we worship technology, which is a real threat, God only knows what's going to happen. You know, I looked today. I saw this new AI system. It's the avatar of ChatGPT-4. It's been given a voice, a very attractive female voice, very charismatic, very caring, very responsive.

• 1:27:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's like we're literally building soulless agents. Soulless agents of seduction. Jesus, that's probably not going to go well.

• 1:28:13Jordan B. Peterson?

  Yeah, and it's, who's doing it? The presumption, the presumptuous engineers who can't get a date. Yeah, ha-ha, right.

• 1:28:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  It'd be, it'd be funny if it wasn't terrible. You know, pornography drove the development of the net. 30% of the traffic is still pornographic. It's like, don't be underestimating the terrible power of frustrated sexual desire and what it's capable of, what kind of havoc it's capable of wreaking. So,

• 1:28:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  yeah, so be awake. That's for sure. Well, so that's an example of Lucifer tromping around the earth.

• 1:29:03Speaker 03

  And when you use that, what did you say? You're dumber than an organism without a nervous system? Yeah, that's a good one. I'm going to keep that.

• 1:29:13Speaker 03

  Are you ready?

• 1:29:14Jordan B. Peterson?

  Yep.

• 1:29:17Speaker 03

  This is a new one. We haven't talked about this before. "How can someone who intends to live by logic also hold true to the supernatural elements and beliefs in the Bible without feeling as though you're betraying logic?"

• 1:29:49Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's a very complicated question. You know, I would say, I hesitate to attempt an answer because it's not... To answer that question properly, you have to elucidate a non-materialistic philosophy, like really from first principles. And you just can't do that in five minutes. I mean, I've been trying to do that for, I've been literally trying to do that for 40 years. You know, and so, um, let's see if I can just make a, make a crack at it.

• 1:30:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  Let me, I can give you an example. That's all I can do. So, and I, this just pushes me to the limits of my knowledge, right? And so, don't be thinking that this is some kind of final answer. So, Christ in the Gospels is presented as the source of the banquet and the banquet that never ends. He's the well that never runs dry, the fish that multiply

• 1:30:56Jordan B. Peterson?

  beyond necessity, and the bread that feeds the multitude. That's Christ. Okay, so what does that mean? Well, here's at least what it means. I'm not saying this is everything it means, but this is at least what it means. Okay, you know, in this culture, we have the idea of natural resource, eh? That's a stupid idea. It's a materialistic idea, and it's fundamentally a envious and Marxist idea. Because it's predicated on the idea that valuable things are just sort of lying around. And, you know, thieves take them and monopolize them, and that's capitalism. It's something like that. And if the natural resources were just distributed fairly, everyone would be rich.

• 1:31:41Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's like, there are no natural resources. Like air, maybe. You can breathe, but even then, you have to put some effort into it. No one's gonna push the air into your lungs, right? So, there's even some human effort in breathing. There's no natural resource. Okay, well, what about fresh water? It's like, really, are you really that clueless? Like, seriously? Do you know how hard it's been to produce a civilization that has a reliable, that has the kind of reliable access to fresh water that you have in L.A.? It's a desert here. Like, how did you manage that? Like, it's impossible. Most of the world still has no fresh water. It's hard to have fresh water.

• 1:32:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  Okay, so what are the preconditions for fresh water? A insanely sophisticated technological infrastructure. Okay, what are the preconditions for an insanely techn- insanely sophisticated technological infrastructure? People who go to work every day, right? Like, working class people, who are fundamentally honest and hardworking, who are upward aiming, who go and fix the pipes that would otherwise be breaking non-stop, that keep the whole bloody clattering apparatus working miraculously, that keep the lights on, which is impossible. Do you know how many countries in the world have, like, no electricity? Or if they do, it's rolling blackout city?

• 1:33:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's like, why are these on? Why are these on? Because you're a Judeo-Christian nation. That's why. And so, and why would I say that? Well, it's because there's an ethos of sacrifice that constitutes the valid meritorious work that produces the American dream. And by and large, everyone adheres to it. Like, it's a miracle. You gotta see this. It's an absolute miracle. The people, damaged people, you know, hurt people. They struggle out of bed at 6:00 in the morning, and they go out into storms, and they fix the power lines. And why do they do that? Well, obviously, to get paid, but it doesn't happen in third world countries.

• 1:33:58Jordan B. Peterson?

  They do it because they, they act out an ethos. It's an, it's the ethos on which complex civilization depends. It's the self-sacrificing ethos that's characterized by, let's say, the offering of Christ. And the reason he's the well that never runs dry and the bread that never ends is because the pattern of self-sacrifice and upward aiming that's embodied by Christ is the source of the resource that never exhausts itself. Right? And so, is that a miracle? Well, yes. Is it the kind of miracle that people usually think about when they read the Gospels? No.

• 1:34:43Jordan B. Peterson?

  Now, can I bridge the gap between the historical reality and that, let's say, more symbolic interpretation? No. You know, no one can bridge the gap between the historical reality of Christ and the, what would you say, the, the transcendent narrative power that suffuses the text. That's beyond anyone's ability. And it's beyond my ability. But I can tell you that that's at least what it means. And that's not nothing, right? That's something.

• 1:35:23Jordan B. Peterson?

  To understand that the pattern that calls you to adventure, the conscience that encourages you to tell the truth, that's the same spirit that makes the desert bloom, right? That's the same spirit that provides the food that never ends to the starving. That's true. And so, is that a miracle? Yes. Is it a miracle that the rational can appreciate? It depends on how rational they are. Like, there's nothing about the account I just gave that doesn't make sense. So, that's a reconciliation of the rational and the miraculous. And if you don't think that the fact that electricity comes out of the plug, the wall, when you put the plug in, if you don't think that's an ethical miracle,

• 1:36:08Jordan B. Peterson?

  you're, you just don't, you just don't know the first thing about, what would you say? What makes life more abundant? It's an ethos. It's the ethos in which technology itself should be nested, right? And that's, that's the Tower of Babel problem. It's like, technology's not what makes us rich. It's ethical conduct makes us rich. Technology can serve that if it's put in its proper place, just like the intellect, just like sex, just like adventure. Everything subdued and named properly, then it can serve what's highest. Out of place, anything out of place, especially elevated to the highest place, is immediately some variant of Satan.

• 1:36:53Jordan B. Peterson?

  It could be sex, it could be power, it could be anger, it could be intellect. You gotta get what's properly at the pinnacle in the right place. And, and then everything, then you're in the garden, and everything is at your fingertips. And that's the truth. It's really, that's really how the world is structured.

• 1:37:27Speaker 03

  That was impressive.

• 1:37:30Jordan B. Peterson?

  Thank you, my dear.

• 1:37:35Speaker 03

  Okay, going in a different direction.

• 1:37:42Speaker 03

  How do we understand and respond to the differences between men and women in a society that has blurred the obvious truths?

• 1:37:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, that's sort of a problem you hash out in the confines of your marriage, isn't it? You know, I mean, that's where the rubber hits the road, so to speak. And so, how do you do that? Well, I'll tell you a story about that. So, I had this friend, he came from this little town called Bear Canyon. And when I say little town, you have to understand that the town I came from had 3,000 people in it. It was way the hell out in the middle of nowhere. And Bear Canyon was a little town that compared to Fairview was way out in the middle of nowhere. So, I don't know how many people were in Bear Canyon. It was like at the edge of the northernmost prairie.

• 1:38:33Jordan B. Peterson?

  It was literally, it was literally the last part of the prairie settled by Europeans in North America. And that was only in the, like, the 1950s or thereabouts. So, it was a backwards place. Anyways, I had a friend who came from there, and he was of Swedish extraction. And he ended up falling in love with and then marrying the cousin of my wife, Tammy. And they, she was also Swedish, of a Swedish origin, and they decided that they would go to Sweden to get married. And during their marriage ceremony, there was a custom that they both participated in. And the custom was that when they were standing beside each other at the altar, they lifted a candle above their heads, right?

• 1:39:18Jordan B. Peterson?

  And that signified the marriage. But it signified more than the marriage. See, it signified what a candle signifies on a Christmas tree, which is enlightenment and illumination, and the return of the light in the darkness, and the return of the sun in the depths of winter, and the heavenly sovereignty of the sun compared to the stars. And that's all tied up in that candle. But it also signifies Christ. And that's because marriage is a sacrament. And the theory is that the union of man and woman recreates the original Adam prior to his division into man and woman, and the re-establishment of the identity that characterized life in the Garden of Eden. That's all packed into that symbol, that idea.

• 1:40:04Jordan B. Peterson?

  So, what does that mean practically? Who's the boss in your marriage? Well, you know, the traditionalists, the demented, power-mad traditionalists, they all insist that it's the man. Try that in your marriage and see how that works for you. It's like, one of the really troublesome things about women is they make terrible slaves. They're really, they're like unruly, and, you know, they're full of tricks. And if you oppress them, they got like, they got six tricks to your one, like, club. It's just, it's just not going anywhere. And so...

• 1:40:44Jordan B. Peterson?

  So, you know, the man, is he in charge? Well, the odd, deluded man thinks so. And that's just an indication of how absolutely he's been, what? Defeated by his wife. Yeah, so, so then it's the wife that's in charge. It's like, no, that's a, that's a dismal set of circumstances for everyone. So, women have the misfortune of liking men who are of higher status than they are. Right? That's cross-culturally true. And there's a reason for that, and the reason fundamentally is, well, why would a woman want a man who's more useless than her? She's gonna have a baby to fill that role. She might as well have someone who's helpful.

• 1:41:27Jordan B. Peterson?

  And so she looks for someone who's gonna be helpful compared to her. And so, and that's very much key to sexual attraction between men and women. And that's well documented, like, cross-culturally. It's one of the most well-founded observations in all of, uh, what would you say, in all of psychological investigation. And so, a woman who dominates her husband will have virtually no sexual attraction to him. So that's real fun for both of them. And so then you might say, well, who the hell's in charge then? And the answer is, what's in charge is what's signified by the candle. Right? And so the notion, it's so sophisticated, this idea. This is like the superstition of the religious.

• 1:42:12Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's like, you have no idea, man, how deep these ideas are. They're insanely deep. So here's the idea. So, one of Christ's proclamations is that whenever there's two or more together in his name, that he's present, the logos itself, or the holy dove that descends from heaven is present. So what does that mean? Well, it means that there's a logos, that's Christ. That's the force that extracts order out of chaos at the beginning of time. That's present whenever there's honest dialogue. Dialogue. Dialogos. The logos that two or more people engage in. Whenever there's truthful communication present, the spirit of the logos makes itself manifest. Well, that's what a marriage is.

• 1:42:54Jordan B. Peterson?

  It's the opening up of the possibility of intimate truthful communication. That's transformative. Okay, that's a spirit. Now, that's the spirit that's supposed to be elevated. That's what you both serve in a marriage. Right? So that's the right answer to how the relationship between men and women should be constituted. It's, it should be constituted in the spirit of love and truth. And the willingness to take maximal responsibility. And if you do that, then the logos flows between you. And that's what solves the problems and ennobles you and keeps you in love and provides a stable platform for your children. And that's a good deal. And so, what do you serve? You serve what's highest in your marriage, both of you.

• 1:43:39Jordan B. Peterson?

  And then neither of you is a tyrant or a slave. And you take the responsibility that's commensurate with your role. And you negotiate that. And then you're the foundation of the community. And you have someone to love. You know why it's the most sex? This is funny. Religious married people. So isn't that funny? It's like 60 years after the sexual revolution, the Dataurian. Is it the alphabet hedonists who are on top? Or the conservative Christians? It's like, on the sexual front, the conservative Christians are kicking ass.

• 1:44:24Jordan B. Peterson?

  That's so funny. It's so ridiculous. It's so unpredictable. It's, you just know that's true because it's so absurd.

• 1:44:38Speaker 03

  So, the clock counted down to 23 a number of minutes ago.

• 1:44:42Jordan B. Peterson?

  I see. So we should stop.

• 1:44:44Speaker 03

  We should probably stop.

• 1:44:45Jordan B. Peterson?

  We should stop. Yes. Do you have one more? Do you have one more quick? Let's see if I can do one quick.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 1:44:51Jordan B. Peterson?

  Okay, okay.

• 1:44:51Speaker 03

  Speed question.

• 1:44:52Jordan B. Peterson?

  Okay, speed quest.

• 1:44:53Speaker 03

  Okay, this might be helpful for people. Um, what would you advise people who wish to find meaning in their lives by embracing their responsibilities but find themselves unmotivated?

• 1:45:06Jordan B. Peterson?

  Oh, you're probably, you're probably forcing yourself too much. That'd be my guess. You're using the heavy hand of power, right? You're, you wanna invite yourself to play. So how do you do that? Well, figure out a game you wanna play. You know, and then make a plan. It's like, how do you do that? Well, this is what Christ tells his followers in the Gospels. He says, "Knock, and the door will open. Ask, and you will receive. Seek, and you'll find." Okay, so you have a problem. You wanna be motivated. So you have to meditate. You have to pray. You have to think, okay,

• 1:45:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  if I could have what I needed to be enthusiastic about working towards it, what would that be? And that's a question everyone should ask themselves. It's like, what the hell do you want? What would satisfy you? Well, you, first of all, you have to ask the question, right? And people don't. They're afraid to, for all sorts of reasons. And then you have to accept the answer. And you might think, well, that's impossible. It's, no, no. I'll tell you what's impossible. Stumbling forward, depressed, anxious, hopeless and unmotivated. That's impossible. Striving to attain a difficult goal, that's, that's a compelling challenge if you set it up properly

• 1:46:32Jordan B. Peterson?

  and if the end is something you want. It's like you could do this in your marriage. It's like, okay, well, I tell people to do this in local ways. So here's an example. Um, it's a good example. Imagine coming home at night after work. You do that every day, let's say, take a stereotypical example. That takes you about half an hour to make that transition. And so that's about 5% of your life is the half an hour every day that you come home after work. 5% of your life. So, you get 20 things like that right, you got your life right. So you might think, well, how would I like things to happen when I came home? Like, what would motivate me to come home? What would motivate me to keep working?

• 1:47:17Jordan B. Peterson?

  How would I like to be greeted? How would I like my kids to react when I walk in the door? What would, response would I like from my wife? So that I feel that the work I did during the day was justified? How could I make her happy to see me? So that we were pleased when we re-encountered each other after a day's separation? Well, you can sit there and think that through if you could admit it to yourself. You know, probably what you want isn't that unreasonable. You might be able to negotiate that with her and then you'd have it. And then you'd be motivated. It's like, dare it to dream. You know, ask yourself, what do I want? With the presumption that, you know, if you're not completely blind and deluded and greedy, that you could probably have it.

• 1:48:02Jordan B. Peterson?

  And the world wouldn't fall apart just because you got something that you needed. You could give yourself that break. And you have to find out, just like you would from, when you're making friends with someone. It's like, what the hell do you want? If I could offer you what you wanted, what would it be? Well, I don't know. It's like, well, then the first thing you want is to know what you want. There's some place to start. You know, and you can figure it out. And if you aim small enough, you can figure it out. And then, so if you're not motivated, you're probably living someone else's dream. You're laboring under some false illusion. You're tyrannizing yourself. You're taking on too much responsibility. You're using power when invitation would suffice. And you don't have a vision.

• 1:48:47Jordan B. Peterson?

  Well, it, it doesn't have to be that way. You could figure out a game you wanna play and invite yourself along. And that's, you can do that. That's how life is constituted. So don't think it's impossible. It's not impossible. I told you what was impossible. Stumbling miserably forward. That's impossible. That's for sure. All right, that's good. Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Mick. Nice to see you all. Thank you, everybody, for coming.

• 1:49:29Jordan B. Peterson?

  Pleasure to see you.

• 1:49:37Jordan B. Peterson?

  All right, everyone. Good night.

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