I Fell for a Guy at Work . . . But He’s Married

On today’s episode, we hear about: · A woman struggling with feelings for her married coworker · A man dealing with the consequences of an ultimatum · A wife seeking advice on how to deal with her husband’s drinking problem 📱 Early access: Watch episodes of The Dr. John Delony Show one week early—download the free Ramsey Network app today! Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test 📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards 💭 John's Free Guided Meditation 🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at BON CHARGE. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth. 🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi. 💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne. 🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 💼 The Ken Coleman Show 📈 EntreLeadership Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Speaker 00

  I am trying to get over a married male coworker. This feels like an emotional affair waiting to happen.

• 0:15Dr. John Delony?

  You're getting the winks across the table. You're getting the laughter, but some other woman is washing his underwear.

• 0:29Dr. John Delony?

  What in the world is going on? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. Happy New Year. I hope you're doing great. We're a few weeks into the new year, but I'm recording this in last year. So I'm just assuming and hoping everything is rocking and rolling. Not everything's going to be perfect. Not everything's going to be just how you drew it up. But I'm hoping you are, you're choosing hope and you're making the best of what's right there in front of you. This show is about sitting with hurting people, trying to figure out what's the next right move. Folks faced with relationship challenges, mental health issues, emotional health challenges, whatever you've got going on in your life. My promise is I'll sit with you and we will figure out the next right move. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291

• 1:13Dr. John Delony?

  or go to johndeloney.com/ask A-S-K. And don't forget to subscribe and leave your five star reviews. All right, let's go out to Flint, Michigan and talk to the mighty Olivia. What's up, Olivia?

• 1:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:29Dr. John Delony?

  Olivia Newton-John, what's up? I'm good.

• 1:34Speaker 00

  Dr. John, I am looking for the next right move.

• 1:37Dr. John Delony?

  Uh oh.

• 1:40Dr. John Delony?

  Why are you in the wrong place?

• 1:43Speaker 00

  Well, let's hop into it and you can tell me.

• 1:47Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, great. Okay, what's up?

• 1:50Speaker 00

  Okay, Dr. John, I am trying to get over a married male coworker.

• 1:57Dr. John Delony?

  Run, run.

• 1:59Speaker 00

  I've set boundaries with him. Dr. John, it's these emotions. I don't know how to get past my emotions, my feelings. Like I feel like I broke up with somebody.

• 2:08Dr. John Delony?

  You did.

• 2:09Speaker 00

  I don't know how to get past these emotions and I need help with that.

• 2:13Dr. John Delony?

  You did break up with somebody.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  I did.

• 2:15Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. Tell me about, tell me about what happened.

• 2:19Speaker 00

  Okay, well, back in the spring this uh last year, twenty twenty four, I started a new job. Awesome, great uh opportunity. About three weeks into this job, I declared a office crush. It was a guy that I, when I first saw him, I thought he was handsome and been sitting in meetings with him. He's witty, he's funny. I just, you know, innocently, oh, he's gonna be my office crush. Didn't think anything else of it. But by midsummer, I started noticing that I was getting attention from him. And then flirting started. And I was enjoying it, loving it.

• 2:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  But then autumn starts creeping in. I'm like, this feels like an emotional affair waiting to happen.

• 3:03Dr. John Delony?

  Yup.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Um, and so in October, I shut it down. I went into his office. And I had two reasons for sh- shutting it down. I only gave him one reason. I said, hey, I'm concerned at the way we banter, our flirting, and the office is gonna backfire on me. Not only mentioned that I was concerned about my job, that it's gonna impact me and my job, cuz hey, I'm the new employee. I'm the female in the situation. He's over management. He's the married guy. Women typically lose in this situation.

• 3:36Dr. John Delony?

  Always.

• 3:36Speaker 00

  But what I didn't tell him was that I was also concerned that I was gonna get emotionally attached to him and fall for him romantically. Well, Dr. John, I think I waited too late to set the boundary cuz after I set that boundary, I have been literally crawling across the floor in tears. I've missed work. Um, I'm even skipping the the department Christmas party next week because I don't wanna take a chance on seeing him with his wife. Like, I have been struggling and just, you know, I have great friends, I have a therapist, I even have a sponsor in a twelve step program. It is just, I could be sitting at my desk and he walks by and my heart skips a beat.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  I don't know what to do with that. How? How do I get past that part? He's respecting my boundaries.

• 4:24Dr. John Delony?

  No, cuz he he.

• 4:25Speaker 00

  The world.

• 4:26Dr. John Delony?

  He's your new addiction.

• 4:29Dr. John Delony?

  This isn't.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  Use addiction.

• 4:30Dr. John Delony?

  I don't think this is about him. I think this is about what he represents for you.

• 4:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:36Dr. John Delony?

  And you you laid it out perfect. Upper management, witty, funny, sees you, laughs with you.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:44Dr. John Delony?

  And then, let's make it worse. You know what else he does? He's one of the few men that respects boundaries. Okay, right?

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 4:51Dr. John Delony?

  And then that makes it, that makes him even more enticing.

• 4:55Dr. John Delony?

  But, okay, so let me ask you this, like, talk to me about relationships you've had in the past.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  Well, my, my relationship, well, first of all, I'm a fifty plus woman who's never been married.

• 5:08Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  I still desperately want to be married.

• 5:10Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah.

• 5:11Speaker 00

  Dating, dating is good in the sense that I go out on a lot of dates. Dating is uncertain and horrible because there are no guarantees. Like, even last weekend, I went to a Christmas party that I thought was for singles. Place was crawling with couples and I left discouraged, like, where were the single men? And so, so I don't, I don't have, like, looking back over my past, I don't have this, like, you know, history of, like, long-term relationships and all that. I don't have that because I, you know, it just hasn't happened for me for a multitude of reasons. It has not happened for me yet.

• 5:49Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about your, um, twelve step program. What you've been working through?

• 5:54Speaker 00

  Um, that very thing, um, anorexia, uh, in relationships. That's specifically what I'm in the twelve step program to work on. And, um, you know, I got a great sponsor. I even have a dating plan where I set, like, for, for example, one of my goals in my dating is, go out on three dates with a guy before I say no, because in my anorexia, I will come up with a reason to get rid of the guy quickly.

• 6:20Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  I will judge a man out of my life so fast. And, and I am a little bit on the, um, on the intolerant side of the tracks, where a man can make some little infraction and I'll get annoyed and shut him down. And, and so that's there.

• 6:35Dr. John Delony?

  Well, here, here's what you have with this, with this coworker. Okay, here's what you have. And by the way, I don't want you to think you're crazy. I've been there, everyone I know has been there.

• 6:45Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:45Dr. John Delony?

  You find somebody, it gets a little flirty, and then you go like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, right?

• 6:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 6:51Dr. John Delony?

  And that's why I'm so adamant, right? Um, about, like, you gotta run from it because it blows up everything. And you're wise to that, but let me tell you what you're working with. Number one, you get to experience the, the...

• 7:07Dr. John Delony?

  The benefits of a relationship. I'm assuming you haven't slept together, so besides sex and intimacy, you're getting the winks across the table, the little inside jokes, you're getting the laughter, you're getting the bump up against you, right? Or if he hands you trash, you like the way his hands feel when they just barely brush your hand. Like those little things. Yes. You get that. But you get it with no risk because he's married. Yep. Some other woman is washing his underwear. So you get all the upside and no downside.

• 7:47Dr. John Delony?

  You get no little hairs around the sink. You get no walking in the bathroom after he's been in there and your eyebrows fall out because of what just happened in there, right? You don't have any of that. You don't get his temper tantrums on Sunday afternoons. You don't get any of that. So what you're able to do is anchor off and play.

• 8:05Dr. John Delony?

  But. But you don't have any of, you're only playing with one side of the coin. Right? So all it to say is here's, it's a fantasy. Yeah. And because there's no downside, no downside, there is downsides if you keep this thing going. But I mean, there's no, you don't have any of the other side of a relationship.

• 8:27Dr. John Delony?

  It feels, the feelings are overwhelming because there's no, there's no tempering the other side of the teeter totter. It's all good. Now, let me tell you the other thing that I think you're, that you're playing with here. And this is something that I hope is really encouraging for you.

• 8:45Dr. John Delony?

  You haven't given this person two or three interactions and you blow them off.

• 8:51Dr. John Delony?

  True. Because you work together, you've been, probably been annoyed. And probably been like, oh gosh, here he goes again. Or he may talk a little too much or a little too loud in meetings or not enough or whatever. But here's what I want you to prove to yourself. If you give a good person enough time. And you give enough person, pieces of yourself that normally you hide because you don't want the world to see them.

• 9:18Dr. John Delony?

  You have a chance to actually fall for somebody.

• 9:21Dr. John Delony?

  And so these rules that you've given yourself with your sponsor and your therapist about, you have to go on three days before you just write somebody off.

• 9:28Dr. John Delony?

  Because y'all work together, that wasn't an option is to write somebody off.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:32Dr. John Delony?

  And it allowed you to experience something that normally you don't let yourself experience.

• 9:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:39Dr. John Delony?

  Which is somebody actually likes you back. And you don't often believe you're worth being liked back.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 9:48Dr. John Delony?

  And so there was this artificial, like, force together, which is work. And then there's deadlines, and then you're in meetings all day, every day. It's why, outside of apps, so many relationships start at work.

• 10:03Dr. John Delony?

  And so many affairs start at work. People end up spending more time with their colleagues than they do with their spouse.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:09Dr. John Delony?

  Or they work on actual projects together. They're forced to work together for a common good, for a bigger goal. Couples don't do that anymore. They're just like, hey, what time you gonna be there for whatever? When's the laundry? And blah, blah, blah. And so,

• 10:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:22Dr. John Delony?

  Number one, you are right to, I'm proud of you for saying your boundaries out loud. Very few people have the courage to do that. Good for you.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:31Dr. John Delony?

  The second thing is, you have to figure out a way to put some distance between you and this person.

• 10:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:38Dr. John Delony?

  Simply because of the power hierarchy. You are correct. If anything goes sideways, or anybody raises an eyebrow, or he's in a meeting with senior execs and someone's like, oh yeah, well I see how you, and he has to throw you under the bus, he will.

• 10:50Speaker 00

  Right.

• 10:51Dr. John Delony?

  And you are dead right. You are the new female person who's got a crush on an executive. You will pay the price here.

• 11:00Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 11:01Dr. John Delony?

  So tell me what distancing looks like.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  That's a great question, and I try it. One of the things that distancing looks like is when I have to engage him, because I am support staff, sometimes I have to do things for him.

• 11:19Dr. John Delony?

  Sure.

• 11:20Speaker 00

  I, I, um, every, every morning I text my sponsor and I say, hey, today, I'm only gonna talk to him about work-related things.

• 11:28Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, so you, you, you've already, you've already identified he's, he's, he's alcohol.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Oh, absolutely.

• 11:36Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 11:37Speaker 00

  Like, like, I called you when I was, I'm calling you because like, after all the work, I'm still crawling across the floor in tears, like, when is it gonna take? Like, he's absolutely, I, I realize that he's, he's certainty. When I go out on all these dates, Dr. John, there's so much uncertainty. But there's certainty in going to work every day and knowing this guy is gonna do whatever he does. There's certainty in that. So absolutely, I know he is my drug. He's definitely, definitely. And I'm hating it. I'm hating it, because I, I thought when I set my boundary back in, in October, I could just turn and walk out

• 12:19Speaker 00

  of his office and be done, and that just hasn't been the case. And I just don't know what to do with these emotions and these feelings. And, you know, when he's casually walking around the office, talking about how much he adores his wife and that, that knife that turns in my heart. I don't, I don't know what to do with that stuff.

• 12:37Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  That's the stuff I'm struggling over.

• 12:40Dr. John Delony?

  Hmm. Is this a good long-term place for you professionally?

• 12:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 12:45Dr. John Delony?

  And, and the reason I'm asking, I wouldn't say that for most people, because of your history with, um, addiction, and because of your willingness to work through it, in some ways, this is like you going to work at a bar.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:58Dr. John Delony?

  Right? And so, I, I, it's, it, I'm certainly not saying you need to run. I'm just asking you, is this a good place for you professionally?

• 13:06Speaker 00

  It's a great place for me professionally, but it's interesting that you said that because a couple of weeks ago, um, my, my boss doesn't know all the details. She doesn't, she only knows I had a difficult conversation with this man. She doesn't know that the days I missed work is because of him. She doesn't know that stuff.

• 13:24Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me, hold on, hold on. Tell me, tell me about missing work because of him. That feels, it feels heavy. It feels overdramatic. Tell me about that.

• 13:30Speaker 00

  It is. Because being in his presence is, is tough. Being, some days, being around him is tough. So the next day I stay home.

• 13:43Dr. John Delony?

  That feels like a lot.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:48Dr. John Delony?

  What is it about his presence that forces you to miss work? Cause I feel like you're giving this a lot of power. Like this is a plant that you went out and, and you, you pulled it out. It was starting to grow roots and you pulled it out and you told him, hey, I'm pulling, I'm pulling this, this plant out. But then you went and you go back and you water it.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm.

• 14:12Dr. John Delony?

  Instead of saying like, so, so let me say this. Like, so if you have anxiousness, if your body identifies the situation as anxious, the way to heal from that is right through it.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 14:25Dr. John Delony?

  Right? So it's, it, the, the nerd word is exposure, right? It, it, there's a, there's a specific exposure therapy. So depending on, like, obviously work with your, the professionals that you're working with, but my goodness, if I, if I felt like I had this crush and I had to interact with somebody and my, my heart just swelled up, I'm for sure gonna go to work the next day. Cause I'm gonna teach my body that I can do the next right thing. I can feel my feelings and I'm gonna go do the next right thing. And let's make no mistake,

• 15:00Dr. John Delony?

  if you are in the presence of a strong, handsome, funny, powerful man, I don't care if you've been married for 50 years, if you've been married for 10 years, you've never been married, you should feel lifted up. If you're, if you're in the presence of a beautiful woman, 28 years old, 58 years old, it should lift your spirits, period. And anyone who's like, no, no, no, it's what happens next.

• 15:36Dr. John Delony?

  Is that something that you meditate on that you give power to over your life?

• 15:42Dr. John Delony?

  Or is it something that you-

• 15:43Speaker 00

  A few weeks ago, I would say a few weeks ago, I did, and a friend in program called me on it. Um, I will tell you, I haven't missed work in the last few weeks. This was like the first few weeks after I confronted him. Those first few weeks I was missing work. Lately, I have not. I am doing better with that. But I definitely hear your point. And, uh, like I said, a friend in program called me out on it like, "Hey, I think you're giving this a lot of power. I think you're feeding this. Here are some things you should do differently."

• 16:14Dr. John Delony?

  Amen.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  And I started doing it.

• 16:16Dr. John Delony?

  I think the important path is to feel it.

• 16:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 16:20Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, he's there. I have that feeling again.

• 16:25Dr. John Delony?

  And that's my-

• 16:25Speaker 00

  And I'll be the first to admit, I don't like uncomfortable feelings, which is why I called this show.

• 16:30Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah, well, and so I-

• 16:31Speaker 00

  I don't want to sit with the feelings.

• 16:32Dr. John Delony?

  I'll be the first to tell you, the only way to deal with uncomfortable feelings is to go right through them.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:38Dr. John Delony?

  And there is times when I, I'm not good at, like, I'm an old man now. I got, I don't have, I don't know.

• 16:47Dr. John Delony?

  That doesn't have to seem a lure for me in that situation, but I've got other feelings about other things. I get pretty emotional about things, can be irrational about things. And that's where I've got to have friends and community members, and in your case, a therapist, in your case, um, a recovery community that walks with you, that you outsource some of that to.

• 17:05Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 17:05Dr. John Delony?

  But I want you to know, listen, if you can, there are fewer things on planet Earth more difficult to navigate than disordered eating.

• 17:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:18Dr. John Delony?

  Because if you're addicted to cocaine, you can just quit using cocaine. You quit surrounding yourself with cocaine. You quit buying cocaine. Like, you can, you can avoid it.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:26Dr. John Delony?

  You can't avoid food. You have to make peace with it.

• 17:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:30Dr. John Delony?

  That's hard.

• 17:31Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 17:33Dr. John Delony?

  You're in a somewhat similar situation here.

• 17:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:37Dr. John Delony?

  You can't avoid this guy. You can't get him fired. You can't run him out. So I'm going to make peace with it. And what that means is, I'm going to feel those feelings. And then, like, you might grab the hem of your shirt and just squeeze it once.

• 17:51Dr. John Delony?

  I tend to touch my chest. It started from something that I did with a therapist, but it's just a quick little thing and it's just a reminder, I get to control what happens next.

• 18:00Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:01Dr. John Delony?

  And my feelings don't tell me the truth. That's not their job.

• 18:04Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 18:05Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're a 50-year-old woman who seeks long-term, a long-term romantic connection.

• 18:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:12Dr. John Delony?

  And you find a funny, witty guy that, that notices you in meetings, and is kind and fun, and would never cheat on his wife, but kinda likes the flirty, but I mean, ki- you know, like, of course your heart's gonna swell up.

• 18:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:27Dr. John Delony?

  And then you gotta do the next right thing. Which I think for you is, take yourself out of proximity, and when you have to be in proximity, don't give it any more power than it deserves.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 18:39Dr. John Delony?

  Is that fair?

• 18:41Speaker 00

  That is fair. And, and I was gonna tell you that my boss had offered to move my location, uh, swap me with another person in the office and let them support the team he's on, and move me elsewhere. Um, for career reasons, I was like, okay, I shouldn't make decisions based on a man, um...

• 19:03Dr. John Delony?

  No, no, no, no, we're not giving him any power. These decisions are based on you.

• 19:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 19:09Dr. John Delony?

  If you have to skip work because this person is so intoxicating,

• 19:15Dr. John Delony?

  if you have to not go to social events.

• 19:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:19Dr. John Delony?

  Because this person's so intoxicating, that's not about him, it's about you.

• 19:24Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 19:24Dr. John Delony?

  Because he's going on with his job, he's going on with his life, he's going on with his marriage.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:29Dr. John Delony?

  And so, I think your meta here is, he's just a drug, you already knew that. Your friends are telling you the same thing I'm telling you in community, which are, uh,

• 19:40Dr. John Delony?

  that you're giving them way too much power. And see, I want you to, I wanna reaffirm what your friends are telling you, you're stronger than you think you are. And just because you have, like, he walks in the room and your body still swoons, great, cool.

• 19:57Dr. John Delony?

  Okay. Going on to the next thing. Um, it's gonna take a while.

• 20:02Dr. John Delony?

  Right? It'll take a while.

• 20:05Dr. John Delony?

  And

• 20:08Dr. John Delony?

  it will take, I hate to use this word, it'll take practice, but what you're gonna find yourself is, you're gonna find yourself stronger and stronger and stronger. And you have to put in some pretty firm boundaries. I will not, I will not be around this person alone. I won't, um, go to lunch with this person. I'm not going to go for walks with this person. I'm not, like, fill in the blank. And otherwise, I'm gonna go out my day. And when I'm in a meeting and he says something funny and I'll laugh out loud, great.

• 20:35Dr. John Delony?

  I get to choose, like, if there's romantic interest there. And I get to choose to water that. Or I get to choose to say, that's a, that's an attractive guy. Let it flow through me, I'm gonna go do the next right thing.

• 20:49Dr. John Delony?

  And for everybody listening, work, we're so lonely, we're so isolated, just as people, that work has taken on everything. It's the last place we have in-person, in, like, human connection. And so sometimes, deep connections, sometimes flirty, fun connection can feel deeply and powerfully romantic, and it's not. It can become it. But we have to make choices, man. It's hard. It's hard. We have to choose. I keep saying that. Do the next right thing. Feel it. Grab the hem of your garment, pinch your thumb and your finger together. Take a quick inhale breath. Touch your chest, whatever the thing you have to do.

• 21:33Dr. John Delony?

  And then go to the next right thing. But if you consciously say to yourself,

• 21:39Dr. John Delony?

  this isn't a power over me. It won't. Thanks for the call, friend. I don't think you're broken, Olivia. I don't think you're broken. I think you're attracted to an attractive guy. I think the big question is, what are you gonna do and who are you gonna be in the following minutes, hours, months, years? And I also think you've proven to yourself,

• 22:01Dr. John Delony?

  don't run quite so quickly. Your therapist and your, your recovery community are correct. Give yourself three or four or five times to interact with somebody.

• 22:11Dr. John Delony?

  Be in somebody's presence. You might surprise yourself that they like you too. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.

• 22:19Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, before we get back to the show, let's talk about Organifi. Everybody, hear this. Health and wellness is not a destination, it's a journey. And that journey is usually not a straight line. Our journeys have stops and starts and ups and downs, victories and setbacks. And sometimes we are all gung ho and focused, and other times our discipline slips, and we just follow one bad choice after another. Trust me, I know. One way to make our health journeys easier is to make consistently healthy choices about what we eat and what we drink. I love Organifi because their whole food blends contain only the highest quality ingredients. And they make it super easy to get all the benefits. Just mix Organifi with water or your favorite healthy beverage. That's it.

• 23:02Dr. John Delony?

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• 23:38Dr. John Delony?

  It's the new year, my favorite time of year. Everyone starts thinking of new routines, building better habits, stopping the things that aren't helpful in our lives, and overall, building a better life. We all know that most new "go get them" goals are a total waste of your time because we don't put in the systems to make them sustainable. So how about this year? Let's focus on fewer, more sustainable goals, and let's create better systems. And let's start by curating a system and goals that are good for our hearts and our souls. Let's start by focusing on our spiritual lives this year. And let's start off 2025 by focusing on prayer and meditation. To do this, I recommend Hallow, the number one prayer app in the world.

• 24:19Dr. John Delony?

  I use it every day and I love it. Hallow offers over 10,000 guided prayers and meditations to help you grow closer to God. Ask hard, hard questions and find some answers and find peace. Hallow has amazing daily prayers that are perfect to start your day with. One of Hallow's most popular features is the daily reflection with Jonathan Rumi from The Chosen. You can also check out the daily scripture readings, nightly sleep prayers. And if you don't have much time, there's even something called the daily minute. Hallow makes it easy to build a system and a routine by making a schedule, adding reminders, and even fostering a community for accountability. Start the year off right by putting your relationship with God first with the help of Hallow.

• 25:01Dr. John Delony?

  Right now, they're offering three free months when you join at hallow.com/daloney. That's Hallow, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash daloney. For three months of Hallow, absolutely free. Go right now. All right, we are back. Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Devin. Hey Devin, what's up, man?

• 25:23Speaker 02

  Hey John, thanks for taking my call.

• 25:24Dr. John Delony?

  You got it. So we talked back in September. Refresh us. What was going on in your life back in September?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  All right, so back then, my question was, hey, my wife gave me an ultimatum, have a third baby, or possibly she was walking. I called in to get a couple of tools from you. I used a couple of those, but now I'm coming back to the well to see if they have any more knowledge for me as I continue to navigate through this.

• 25:51Dr. John Delony?

  Were my recommendations not great? It's okay if they weren't.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Well, you're fantastic, but I find myself in kind of another odd predicament with her. But I'll unpack it, whoever you think would be most useful.

• 26:04Dr. John Delony?

  Tell me about today's call. What's going on?

• 26:07Speaker 02

  So the main point was, we got to a point in that discussion over the third baby. It was really a proxy battle for me, kind of capitulating to anything that she wants and her going nuclear, so to speak, if she didn't get what she wants. We got to the end of that and it came to that sort of lights up conversation that we had. And I said, listen, whoever we got here, you know, the important thing is that I think... Um, we, we try to build something new. So I kind of established I wanted to build something new. I wanted to put away all of the insecurities, all the issues we had, kind of put those down and just start something new. And she never really said if she was in or out. Um, she was very upset in that moment, obviously, but then a couple of days went by where she was sad.

• 26:50Speaker 02

  And since then, she's been normal-ish, but not affectionate. So it's almost like she's in, but she doesn't want to say she's in because she's still kind of punishing me because she'll never forgive me. And I don't know how to re-engage it and say, hey, you know, three months ago, we had this weird conversation about whether you're going to leave or not. Never really said if you're leaving. So it's kind of walking on this anxious eggshells all the time. Like, are you just going to leave or what's going on?

• 27:15Dr. John Delony?

  So what has stopped you from sitting down and having, like, I wouldn't have been able to sleep for three months with the looming potential, like, separation. Like, what has kept you from sitting down over dinner and be like, hey, you mentioned you were leaving. Are we all in? Are you in?

• 27:30Speaker 02

  So honestly, the reason why I haven't brought it up to her again isn't because I'm afraid she said she's going to leave. I, I don't actually think she's going to leave and she's not going to say that. But I think the problem is, based on how our relationship goes, she's never going to ever say she's all in because she has to have that, like, over my head because she's been using that for several years. Like, I could leave if you don't do X, Y, Z. So I feel like if I bring up the conversation, like, hey, let's resurrect this terrible conversation from a few months ago, she'll just be like, oh, I mean, obviously I'm in, but like, you know, I don't know, maybe a year from now I'll be unhappy. So like, she'll never give me any resolution to it. That's why I don't bring it up because it's like, all right, I mean, maybe. The other part of that, and just to finish this point is, and I said this to her, if we go forward and we're not having another baby, I understand it's going to change the family picture that you had

• 28:14Speaker 02

  in your mind, but there'll be a season of grieving in your life, which I'll be, I'm all in to help you with and walk with you through that. So I don't know if this is like, okay, she's kind of getting to acceptance her own way and she's in her grieving process, but how long do I let that go before I go, hey, you know, you can't, we can't live in an affectionate, less relationship forever because we're normal day to day, but there's just no affection on her part. It's just like, no, done. This, this, she's kind of checked out in that way. So it's odd.

• 28:48Dr. John Delony?

  It pains me to say what I'm about to say because it kind of violates one of my core tenets. Is that okay?

• 28:55Dr. John Delony?

  I'll get after it. Your wife is incredibly immature. Oh, yeah. And I, I, I've got a close, close buddy that was, um, telling me about this amazing therapist he has. And he said, what's so great is my therapist kind of his, his wife interpreter. And I was like, what does that mean? He's like, well, my wife will say things and the therapist will be like, well, here's what she actually means. And it's so great. And I said, no, your therapist sucks because, because you don't, you're not supposed to have an interpreter. Right. You're supposed to learn to be mature and just say the thing. Yeah. Right? And like be an adult. And if somebody is always threatening to leave you, they have left.

• 29:41Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. They're out.

• 29:45Dr. John Delony?

  And they aren't in. And so you can't build anything.

• 29:51Dr. John Delony?

  All, all, all you can do is, is be drugged behind whatever truck she's driving down the road. Yeah. And so I guess what I would tell you is this isn't, she's not being a person of fidelity in your marriage. Yeah. Right? In this way, correct, yes. She's not, maybe she's not sleeping with somebody. But this is, this is the same thing. You're like, yeah, she's not sleeping with anybody. Like, like, here's the thing. It, it's similar to guys who, um,

• 30:26Dr. John Delony?

  spend every waking moment that they're not at work on the golf course. Yeah. And their wife is getting just, just scraps.

• 30:38Dr. John Delony?

  And then when you call them on it, they're like, what, whoa, are you kidding me? For real? I do all this and it, it's that. That's not being a person, that's cheating. You're just cheating with the golf course.

• 30:48Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 30:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:49Dr. John Delony?

  What's happening to you is the same thing. It's just, hey, you said you're gonna leave me and these two kids. Are you gonna leave? Oh, no. I don't know, man. Maybe. Like, that's infidelity. That's cheating. That is not giving you her full self. And so you're eating, like, you're just feeding on scraps. You're starving to death.

• 31:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that's completely true. And to kind of give you a little more depth on that, she's created this devious way in which she doesn't say, like, I don't know if she actually said directly, but she very strongly intimates that, and she knows that that's my greatest fear. But then, like, when I've brought this up to her throughout the process, the other kind of smaller fights, or this nuclear one, I directly articulate, like, I'm afraid that you will leave if I don't give you what you want. And she would kind of almost do this, not to overuse the word, but gasp, like, why would I leave? I'm not gonna leave. And then we get to the next fight, and she's like, you know, I really can't do this anymore. I don't know what to do. And so it's like, she never says, like, I will leave, but she lays that thought in my head.

• 31:56Speaker 02

  And the reason why she'll never say, hey, hey, listen, Devon, I'm all in, is because if she does that, she's putting down that weapon she's always had, which she knows is my greatest insecurity, like, I'm afraid you're gonna leave.

• 32:07Dr. John Delony?

  So what if you do, what if you take all the bullets out of that weapon?

• 32:10Speaker 02

  How so?

• 32:14Dr. John Delony?

  Um, like, we're recording this, we're coming up on the new year.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 32:21Dr. John Delony?

  What if you let her know, today, I've got childcare, and we're gonna take a Saturday and part of a Sunday, and you and I are gonna map out 2025 together. And here's how we're gonna map it out. We're gonna map it out in four ways. We're gonna spend the morning talking about how we see each other. We're gonna talk about things that we see the other person doing that are great.

• 32:48Dr. John Delony?

  Then we're gonna go to another restaurant. We're gonna go get coffee. We're gonna get morning brunch or whatever. And we're gonna talk about known. What are the things going on in your guts? Are you happy in this home that we're creating together? How can we love each other better? And both people get to speak. Then we're gonna go to lunch. And then either during lunch or after lunch, we're gonna talk about celebration. Who do we wanna be this year? What's that gonna look like, identity? How are we gonna celebrate each other? How are we gonna cheer each other on and become each other's biggest cheerleaders? And then the fourth one is nuts and bolts. How are we gonna make this thing happen?

• 33:27Dr. John Delony?

  What must, what must go away so that this new year is, becomes true? Seeing, known, celebrate, and challenge.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:42Dr. John Delony?

  And, and let's say you put that on paper. Forget her little threats. If you think those threats are, they're just, they're toothless tigers. Then at some point, you have to be the adult and say, all right, whatever, I'm gonna keep going. Cause y'all are in this weird dance. Where she loses power and so she pokes and you over like, whoa, over correct. She's gonna leave and you shut down for a month and she gets back on top. And then, then you slowly start becoming a great husband again and you're back engaged with the kids. And then she feels like she's losing it. So she's like, well, I don't know.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's, I, I feel like she's, I think she looked into, like, I don't, I don't think that she necessarily looked into like divorce or anything. But I think she's envisioned that and she realized how hard it is. So now she's, she's not planning actively leaving. But my, my concern is that the next time, you know, three months from now, she's like, hey, let's do whatever. And I go, oh, we can't do that then. And she's not getting what she wants, not getting fed that. Then it's gonna be another fight and a miss will come up at some point. But to your point about, if I may, the, the kind of like the retreat you laid out. I kinda did that in a sense, not as well as you did, obviously, cause you, you do this for a living. But like during the period, the past month of us being in this weird dance was our, our wedding anniversary. So I, I kinda, I got us like a room at a hotel with a restaurant, just kinda like have almost like a, a start over type retreat thing.

• 35:01Speaker 02

  Kinda with this, with what you just kind of laid out in a framework in mind, but not as well. And she first she declined, she said, well, we shouldn't go away together. It's not a good idea. And I said, why? And she's like, well, because we have all these problems. And I was like, I just kind of walked away. Okay, whatever you want to do, but I don't have to cancel the reservation until, you know, X day. So then she waits until that day and she goes, all right, we can do it. We can go. We have to talk about things. And I said, okay. And then we went and we did it. We didn't talk about things. I didn't bring it up to be fair, but I was kind of waiting like, where are you going with this? So we just had like a decent evening, but I was like, well, why didn't we do this? What's what's going on? Like, are you not want to talk about? Are you over? I keep trying to read T L's, which are stupid.

• 35:38Dr. John Delony?

  Go right through them. Because here's the thing, if she's going to leave you, she's going to leave you.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I totally agree.

• 35:44Dr. John Delony?

  I think she's already left you. She's just left you in your own house. She's left you physically. She's left you emotionally. She's left you spiritually.

• 35:55Dr. John Delony?

  She's left you. She's moved out. She just did the math. She probably sat with somebody and they did math and she's like, oh, I'd have to go to work.

• 36:03Speaker 02

  Well, well, and so if I could just expand on that for a second, um, not to, not that I'm great about anything, but like I do roughly nine out of 10 things in the house. So like meals, cleaning, cooking, I do so much. So I feel like she probably thought, oh, my life would be much more difficult. Might as well just live here and have him do everything. But I feel like if I stand up and like pull back a little bit in what I'm doing, because I'm also overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I'm doing. It's it's completely unbalanced. Then she I always feel like she's going to leave. So I just, everything is kind of through the lens of like, if I stop doing this one nice thing I do, is she going to leave? And I have to get like, regain my personal agency and take power back in my life. But I'm just, I don't know. I'm so like terrified now after years of dealing with this and this very acute like recent situation.

• 36:48Speaker 02

  I just don't even know how to start, except saying like, hey, one of those reasons that conversation from a few months ago, what are you doing? Are you leaving? And then I feel like it won't be resolved because she'll just kind of be like, oh, well, you know, maybe I will. I don't know.

• 37:00Dr. John Delony?

  Okay, so let's let's flip the whole thing around then. We're going to go on a retreat and we're going to talk about 2025.

• 37:10Dr. John Delony?

  And that's when you lay out in 2025, I am you, Devin, I'm committed to being well, to being the best father and the best husband I can be. And that means I have to be honest about my time. I have to be honest about my work. I have to be honest about my commitment here at home domestically, like with chores and stuff like that, and how I am seeking to be the best person I can be. Exercise, sleep, and all that. So beginning January 3rd, or January 1st, or whenever, I'm no longer doing X, Y, and Z. I'm gonna do dinner. I'm going to do my laundry. I'll do the kids laundry. I will make the bed in the morning.

• 37:55Dr. John Delony?

  I'll mow the lawn. I'm gonna ask you to be responsible for after dinner cleanup. We can figure out who's gonna go to the grocery store, we can figure that out. Or you start nailing these things down. But if you do it as punishment, then you become her. Correct, that's my problem, yeah. We're not doing it for punishment. We're doing it so that you can be whole finally. You've never been whole in this relationship. Mm-mm. And so, you have to hear me say, you're worth being whole. And here's the thing. My buddy Henry Cloud, like the goat psychologist, right? Who wrote the book Boundaries.

• 38:40Dr. John Delony?

  He has a great story about talking with a father about his son, who's just living this crazy life. And he says, I don't know what to do. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. And Dr. Cloud has this great response. He said, it sounds like your son needs to get some problems. Yeah. And so, your wife doesn't have to do anything. Mm-hmm. And you continue to cash out every bit of agency you have.

• 39:12Dr. John Delony?

  Because this isn't a whole relationship. She's not a person of fidelity. And so what you have to say is, okay, this year, I'm not gonna punish you. I'm not making dinner anymore. No more laundry, no. When I look at my calendar, I will exercise for an hour a day. I will take my kids to breakfast and then get them to school twice a week. I will work and I'm also gonna get that graduate degree I've been thinking about. And so here's what that's gonna cost and here's what time that's gonna take.

• 39:39Dr. John Delony?

  So here's gonna be the jobs left undone that as the co-creator of this household,

• 39:46Dr. John Delony?

  is gonna be your responsibility. Are you in? And by the way, now that we're here, what are the things you need to be whole this year? And how can I help fill, like scaffold those things? How can I walk alongside you? How can I love you better? And what you're gonna get is somebody feeling in real time, this isn't just a power play anymore. This isn't just sitting on the couch lobbing grenades. I may not be here tomorrow. It's not that. This is like, oh, hours, time, commitment, participation, accountability. The stuff marriage is made of.

• 40:21Dr. John Delony?

  And here's the thing, you gotta hear me say this. She's already left you. And so your plans aren't working. Your attempts to take hold and to get her to not leave, they're not working. She's already left. She just still lives at the house and you pay for everything.

• 40:40Dr. John Delony?

  The goal here is to say, you deserve to be married to a man that is whole. Who can show up and protect and provide and do all these things and be totally connected to you.

• 40:52Dr. John Delony?

  Here's what I'm gonna need to do that. And I deserve to be married to somebody who's whole. Who wants all in on this thing. What do you need? I'll do everything I can in my power to make that true.

• 41:05Dr. John Delony?

  My guess is that it's just going to like, it's kinda like you have a really dirty windshield and you're flying down the highway at 95 miles an hour and you're afraid you're about to go off a cliff. And you're scared if you clean off this windshield, it's gonna show you that you're going off a cliff. It might, but the reality is you don't know where you're going because the windshield's so dirty. So we're gonna get in a room and we're gonna clear off the windshield. And maybe you're finding that you've already driven off the cliff and your car is just spinning its wheels as it's careening towards the ground. Or you might find out that there's hundreds of miles of empty road ahead of you that you can keep driving together. But she has no incentive to change her life because

• 41:47Dr. John Delony?

  she likes her life as it is because she does nothing. She just pulls you around on a leash. And she's always got this atom bomb in her pocket, which is, well, maybe it just won't be here tomorrow. And for you, it's, alright, that's not gonna hold power over me anymore. I'm gonna go do the next right thing so that I can be whole. And that's the only path you'll have towards hope,

• 42:08Dr. John Delony?

  towards building something new, is saying, here's the role I'm gonna play in building, here's the role I am asking you to build, to take on in our building. Are you in?

• 42:20Dr. John Delony?

  And dude, call me after this meeting. Call me after it, because this is gonna be a truth telling, a clearing. And maybe there's some ground rules, no leaving, no grenade throwing, no bombs, no what, we're just gonna lay this thing out here. I need both of us to be adults in this thing. Been a tough, tough year. And I've been chasing you forever. I'm gonna stop chasing.

• 42:43Dr. John Delony?

  We're gonna anchor in. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back.

• 42:48Dr. John Delony?

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• 43:29Dr. John Delony?

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• 44:10Dr. John Delony?

  All right, let's go out to Oklahoma City and talk to A-M-Y. What's up, Amy?

• 44:16Speaker 03

  Hi, Dr. Deloney. Thank you for taking my call.

• 44:18Dr. John Delony?

  Of course. What's up?

• 44:21Speaker 03

  Um.

• 44:24Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 44:24Dr. John Delony?

  No, you're good. Take a breath. You're all good.

• 44:29Speaker 03

  I guess I'm, uh, struggling to figure out how I can address my husband's, um, drinking problem in a way that I guess will stick with him.

• 44:46Speaker 03

  We've had several instances over the past, I want to say, four years to where his drinking becomes more and more excessive, and it'll peak in an instance where he will speak to me disrespectfully because he's had too much to drink. And then I have a habit of stonewalling him for a couple of days. And then, once I feel like I'm able to talk to him, we'll sit down and talk. He'll admit he has a problem and he needs help. And the best that I've gotten from him is he'll try to drink less.

• 45:24Speaker 03

  This last time that that happened was the night before Thanksgiving.

• 45:30Speaker 03

  He called me a, for lack of a better description, the C word out of frustration with me. And I stonewalled him for about three days and when we finally sat down again, he'd admitted he had a problem. He needed help. He asked me what I needed from him and I told him, I need a sober home, one hundred percent sober. I don't care what people think or say about it, but in my home, I don't want any more alcohol. He was very hesitant and he said that he didn't want to impose our issues on anyone.

• 46:08Speaker 03

  Um, and I knew at that point, like just trying to go back and forth with him to get him to do things my way wasn't going to work. And we agreed on, he was gonna get sober. Um, that was maybe about a week ago at this point. And, um,

• 46:31Speaker 03

  um, a couple of other things happened that were upsetting to me, but I kind of just had to put it to the side because I didn't want to seem like the one that's being overly critical with him.

• 46:41Dr. John Delony?

  What were those, what were those things? What were those things?

• 46:44Speaker 03

  Oh, God. Um, so we had that discussion, I want to say Sunday after Thanksgiving. Um, we were having friends over a couple of nights later on Thursday. He called me while he's out in town and asked me if I wanted a bottle of wine for dinner. And I just had to stop and it took everything in me to not explode on him over the phone. Because we just had this whole sobriety talk a couple of days ago. So I said, no, I don't want any wine. I'm fine. And he said, okay. And he shows up to the house with a six pack of non-alcoholic beer. And once again, it took everything inside me to not explode on him.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  And the only justification I gave myself was, well, at least he's trying. It's non-alcoholic beer. Because I didn't want to ruin the night. I knew that if I said something, it would just turn into this whole thing.

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Um, we went through the night. He had two non-alcoholic beers and he even, he put a sleeve on it because he didn't want his, our friends to see that it was non-alcoholic beer because they do drink. I mean, everyone we know drinks.

• 48:01Speaker 03

  Um, it, it went fine. Uh, I came to work. Uh, we're both shift workers, so we'll work for 48 hours at a time and sometimes we'll have alternating days off to where he's alone, uh, on a day that I'm working or I'm home on a day that he's working. And Saturday comes along, um, I get off Sunday morning and then I realized a couple of things have happened while I was gone on that Saturday that he is neglecting to come forward to me about. And this point, and it does involve alcohol and I don't know how to approach him. And I've once again been stonewalling him for about three days now.

• 48:40Dr. John Delony?

  All right. So let's, let's start here. No more stonewalling.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:45Dr. John Delony?

  That's a cheap way to regain what you feel like is power in your house, but it's not.

• 48:51Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I feel like I've tried every other way and.

• 48:55Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. It doesn't work. And you, in a weird way, you bear, you bear the brunt of it.

• 49:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:05Dr. John Delony?

  Stonewalling is like that old AA saying, like, you're drinking poison, hoping he dies.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:12Dr. John Delony?

  Right. You feel terrible. You feel annoyed. You feel like you can't go in your own bathroom or your own bedroom or your own kitchen. And he just is annoyed that you're acting that way again. So let's make a commitment now to not stonewall. Okay?

• 49:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:28Dr. John Delony?

  And that means you remaining empowered in your own socks and shoes. It's my house.

• 49:39Dr. John Delony?

  When you say, I want a sober house, or I want sober this, or I want, I think we're past that because everybody can interpret that in its own way.

• 49:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 49:53Dr. John Delony?

  I think, I think you need some very clear boundaries for your home and for your marriage. And whenever we hold clear boundaries, and I'll walk you through some of them, but whenever we hold clear boundaries, we have to know that other people don't have to hold our boundaries. He may leave.

• 50:15Dr. John Delony?

  And that's a scary, scary proposition.

• 50:19Dr. John Delony?

  But you are quickly becoming somebody that you don't recognize or respect.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:24Dr. John Delony?

  Because your house is increasingly less and less safe.

• 50:29Dr. John Delony?

  Fair?

• 50:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:31Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 50:35Dr. John Delony?

  My guess is, um, your husband does not have the capacity to stop drinking on his own. He needs to go see with some, a professional or go to a treatment program.

• 50:46Speaker 03

  I've tried to. I've tried to get him, or not get him, I've

• 50:53Speaker 03

  tried to tell him that, the methods. But I've been trying, or all these talks when it comes to like a breaking point.

• 51:03Dr. John Delony?

  That's what I mean about boundaries. That's what I mean about boundaries.

• 51:08Dr. John Delony?

  And here's how you cast it in choices he can make.

• 51:12Dr. John Delony?

  You and I are talking right now on a Wednesday morning.

• 51:17Dr. John Delony?

  A conversation has something like tonight, after dinner. Let him know, we have a hard conversation we have to have tonight.

• 51:26Dr. John Delony?

  And if you want to, you can say, I know about Saturday. I know about all the stuff that happened on Saturday and we're not going to debate it or discuss it. From this point forward, you have a choice. You can choose me, you can choose this home, or you can choose alcohol. What that means is, by Friday, you will be at an inpatient or an outpatient treatment program. Or you are choosing to no longer live in this house.

• 51:53Dr. John Delony?

  And in that way, you're not kicking him out. He's a grown man, he has to make a choice.

• 51:58Dr. John Delony?

  And if you're doing shift work and you're any kind of first responder, shift work, 48 hours on, 40 hours off, that kind of thing, then there's a ton of employee assistance programs available.

• 52:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:14Dr. John Delony?

  And there's a ton of ego.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  I feel like that's the only, that's the only avenue that I haven't tried because

• 52:26Dr. John Delony?

  Because you're scared of what he's gonna do.

• 52:27Speaker 03

  ... respond well.

• 52:28Dr. John Delony?

  I know.

• 52:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 52:30Dr. John Delony?

  But you've been trying to control his responses for X number of years. You have to at some point say, "This isn't working. I can't do it. It's just getting worse."

• 52:38Speaker 03

  I'm tired.

• 52:39Dr. John Delony?

  Yeah. And by the way, he doesn't like who he's becoming either. I don't know, any man that wants to get to a place where they're having to hide from the life they live in so much, so often, that they end up just belittling their wife. I don't know, any man that wants to be in that situation, it just feels powerless to get out. This is one of those iron sharpens iron moments. "You can choose to live with me and be my husband, which I hope so much you will. You will be in a program by Friday."

• 53:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:08Dr. John Delony?

  Or you will choose to move out of this house and leave. Period.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:20Dr. John Delony?

  Because, let me say this as boldly as I can. You've lost the marriage that you had. It's over. When a man calls his wife the C-word after Bender number 25, that marriage, there's a period at the end of that marriage. It's over. Y'all can build something new, something extraordinary. And in y'all's case, a life that is stone sober. And anyone who goes through any sort of sobriety will tell you, they've got to change friendship circles, and they've got to cut people out of their life, or give people the opportunity to fade out.

• 54:03Dr. John Delony?

  And that's scary and scary and scary on top of scary.

• 54:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:10Dr. John Delony?

  But right now, he's choosing these barbecue buddies over his wife.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:16Dr. John Delony?

  And you deserve more than that. He does too.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  I know.

• 54:25Speaker 03

  Would the best thing after this conversation with him be for me to go sober as well? I mean, I, I can, I think I acknowledge that I don't have the issue with alcohol or the relationship with alcohol that he does. Um, I'm willing to be a hundred percent sober for the rest of my life. It doesn't, I don't have to think twice about that.

• 54:54Dr. John Delony?

  I, I, I think right now, lest you make grand proclamations, he needs to know that you'll walk alongside him.

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:05Dr. John Delony?

  Right?

• 55:07Dr. John Delony?

  My wife is a serial killer in that she can buy a bag of Reese's Pieces and eat four of them and then put them in a drawer and go on about her day. I don't know how that's humanly possible because once the bag is open, I will eat the entire bag and then I'll go figure out a way to find some more.

• 55:28Dr. John Delony?

  And when I say, hey, I'm out of control with how I'm eating, I'm not being a good steward of my body.

• 55:35Dr. John Delony?

  Um, and it's not just aesthetic. It makes me not sleep well. It makes me not a good dad. It makes me a grumpy husband. Um, I need to cut it out. She says, awesome, sweet. And it disappears from our house everywhere.

• 55:52Dr. John Delony?

  But also, I'm not going to begrudge her a piece of pie with her friends or, I mean, she can eat whatever she wants to, right? But it's her honoring me as my ride or die in this particular season I'm in.

• 56:06Dr. John Delony?

  So I think you making the big like, I would agree to go sober for the rest of my life. That's a lot. I don't think he, I don't think that's necessary right now.

• 56:17Dr. John Delony?

  I think right now you can say, I'm done drinking.

• 56:22Dr. John Delony?

  As for me in this house. And I hope with all of my guts that you choose me and you choose this home and you choose this family.

• 56:35Dr. John Delony?

  Because you've been trying to make his choices for him for a long time and then it just doesn't work. He has to choose.

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, you're right.

• 56:42Dr. John Delony?

  And if you've made a bunch of like Swiss cheese boundaries that have holes in them and you haven't really held them, uh, he'll probably test them, see if you're serious.

• 56:53Dr. John Delony?

  You might get wasted on Saturday when you're at work.

• 57:02Dr. John Delony?

  Do you all have kids?

• 57:05Speaker 03

  Um, I, well, yes, he has two from the previous marriage. They're with us part-time, you know, every other weekend.

• 57:12Dr. John Delony?

  Okay.

• 57:14Dr. John Delony?

  So maybe you have to make a hard decision about whether you're gonna move or not. Because he might try to call your bluff.

• 57:30Dr. John Delony?

  But I think it's, I don't see another path forward than some, some hard directive action.

• 57:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've, I've thought about all the scenarios and I guess the one thing that kept me from giving him that ultimatum is the fear that he won't follow through with the getting treatment and then I would have to either him move out or my, remove myself from the home because I don't want it to affect the children.

• 58:01Dr. John Delony?

  And what I would tell you is it's already affecting the children.

• 58:04Speaker 03

  I know.

• 58:05Dr. John Delony?

  You already don't feel safe in your house emotionally and verbally.

• 58:11Dr. John Delony?

  And if you, you know this more than me, but if you go back and look at trends and escalation, you might see this thing creeping further and further towards your house getting less and less safe physically even.

• 58:27Dr. John Delony?

  And so it will come to a head. My goal, and it's kind of like the national debt, right? There will come a day. My dream is, we all decide now that we're gonna have 10 years, 15 years of tough seasons to get this thing under control. Or we can just keep driving along. At one day, this thing crashes. Similar, this crashes in your house at some point.

• 58:55Speaker 03

  I have lots that I want to avoid. I don't want to spend 15 years. Like, I know a lot of people in his family and his friends, and a lot of callers that I've heard on your show, where they've been going through this for 10, 15, 20 years. I'm trying to not spend the rest of my life trying to get over this hurdle.

• 59:15Dr. John Delony?

  That's right.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  You know, and nip it in the butt now before it does end up in divorce. It just frustrates me.

• 59:24Dr. John Delony?

  It is. Not by your hand, but in your lap. You didn't ask for this, and here it is.

• 59:33Dr. John Delony?

  I'll walk with you any way that I can, and call me anytime you want. And if he wants to call me, I'd love to talk to him, too. And if he's first responders, I especially know those guys. Tell him to give me a call.

• 59:51Dr. John Delony?

  I think the big lesson here is, the thing you're trying to hold together to keep duct tape and bailing wire and string, like, keep it held together, it's already in pieces. So the control you think you have over it's an illusion. And in fact, the pieces are beginning to scatter in the wind. The question is, will you let those pieces scatter? And will you say, here's the foundation I'm gonna, I'm building a new house on. I hope you'll co-build it with me. But you gotta go get help, because this can't be a part of our life.

• 1:00:26Dr. John Delony?

  And that's gonna be a scary, scary thing. And there will be starts and stops. And you're gonna have to look at the steps he takes. And you're gonna have to look at his commitment. You're gonna have to look at his remorse and his willingness to say, I'm sorry. I'm gonna try again, I'm gonna try again, I'm gonna try again. Because sobriety is a roller coaster. It's not just a straight line all the time.

• 1:00:51Dr. John Delony?

  You deserve to have a house that's safe. And he deserves to feel at peace in his own skin. And both of y'all have proven we can't do this on our own. So professional help is the next right move. We're thinking about you, Amy. Let me know how the conversation goes. And hopefully he chooses 2025 as to be the year that he is finally free. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've probably heard people talk about the different kinds of flags in friendships and romantic relationships, red flags and green flags and beige flags. Listen, sure, it can be helpful to look for relationship patterns or unsafe behaviors,

• 1:01:33Dr. John Delony?

  but to me, all these flag labels can distract from what's really important when you're trying to find a lasting relationship. What's really important are your values and your potential partner's values and whether both of you are willing to wake up every day and choose to honor each other's values. But when you grow up in challenging environments or given how we are bombarded with everyone else's values all day, every day, it can be tough to even know what are my values? What is important to me in a relationship? And how will I show up to honor myself and love my future partner? Forget all the different flags on someone else. Instead, how can you learn what you value? Therapy can be a great way to figure out what you value, learn what you're looking

• 1:02:17Dr. John Delony?

  for in your relationships, and then decide your boundaries and your non-negotiables. If you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy that works with your schedule. To get started, you just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not a right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. So whether you're dating, you're married, you're building friendships, or just working on yourself, try BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H E L P, dot com slash deloney.

• 1:02:56Dr. John Delony?

  We are back. Kelly, what's something that great? I didn't say that right. What's something great that happened? You have something on the internet.

• 1:03:04Speaker 04

  Something great that didn't happen was that outro right there.

• 1:03:06Dr. John Delony?

  I did not do a good job.

• 1:03:07Speaker 04

  That's okay. All right.

• 1:03:09Dr. John Delony?

  I found this new thing on the soda machine downstairs soda, because I'm a 1940s New Yorker. Down the Coke machine downstairs, you can just get soda water.

• 1:03:22Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:03:22Dr. John Delony?

  Now we can get my bubbles.

• 1:03:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, cheaper than Topo Chico.

• 1:03:28Dr. John Delony?

  Topo Chico, dude. You should see the microplastic count on Topo Chico.

• 1:03:32Speaker 04

  I like Topo Chico, so don't tell me that.

• 1:03:34Dr. John Delony?

  My top 15 heartbreak of the year.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  You think it's any better coming out of that fountain drink thing?

• 1:03:41Dr. John Delony?

  I don't have any data on it, so I'm just gonna... The story I'm gonna make up is that, yes, it's way better.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  I totally approve of that. Ignorance is bliss.

• 1:03:48Dr. John Delony?

  It is shipped in plastic, and it is cooked in plastic and dispensed in plastic, but...

• 1:03:52Speaker 04

  But it's probably fine.

• 1:03:53Dr. John Delony?

  I don't have any data, so I'm gonna say it's better.

• 1:03:55Speaker 04

  All right, so we've got a cool crap that happened from Jackson in Hampton Falls, New Hampshire. Jackson writes, "I was in the line at the grocery store behind an elderly woman. I mentioned that I like her Bucky shirt. It's a rarity here in New Hampshire. She chuckled and said that she got it with her husband years ago, and today was the anniversary of his passing. Immediately, I asked her his name, how long ago he passed, and the funniest thing he ever did while they were married."

• 1:04:22Dr. John Delony?

  Yes!

• 1:04:23Speaker 04

  She told me his name was Bill. They were married for 36 years, and his comical antics. And then she practically floated out of the grocery store with a huge smile on her face. My wife right away said, 'You just alonied her.'

• 1:04:37Speaker 04

  Love the show. Looking forward to coming to the marriage retreat in February."

• 1:04:41Dr. John Delony?

  Oh, very cool. Dude, that's so great. So, I think in 2025, Kelly, I need to learn to be more demonstrative. So, when somebody says, "This is a shirt that reminds me of my late husband who passed last year."

• 1:05:01Dr. John Delony?

  Somebody has just dropped an anxious, uncomfortable thing right in front of you. And uncomfortable is probably better than anxious. Uncomfortable. You can go, "Oh, okay," and just turn around. You can pull up your phone. You can do a number of things to avoid that discomfort. When you ask their name, and you ask, "What's the funniest thing they've done that you remember?" That's you heading directly into that. So I always tell people, "Go right towards it." That's one of those ways. "What was his name?" Like, we're gonna say his name out loud. And everybody, names tend to humanize issues, right? And situations. And so, his name was Whoom, and everyone goes, "Ah." And maybe, I've been in situations where I'm like, "What's the funniest thing you can remember?" Guy wasn't a good guy.

• 1:05:45Dr. John Delony?

  But it leads to a rich conversation. And anyway, that, I need to be more demonstrative. A, I need to learn how to speak clearly, because I'm intending to bblblblbl today. But, that's what I mean when I mean, just walk right through it. And good on you. What was that dude's name?

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  Jackson and his wife Nicole. And I'm assuming they'll be here in February.

• 1:06:06Dr. John Delony?

  And I don't, I don't know anybody in New Hampshire. Do you have any New Hampshire friends?

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  There's like 14 people there, I think.

• 1:06:13Dr. John Delony?

  I know, and 11 of them print credit cards. I think that's where all the credit cards come from.

• 1:06:16Speaker 04

  No, I don't think I know anyone from New Hampshire.

• 1:06:17Dr. John Delony?

  Where they grow credit cards. I don't either.

• 1:06:19Speaker 04

  But we do now.

• 1:06:20Dr. John Delony?

  Ayo, I got a new friend named Jackson. "I'm going to Jackson." Dude, that makes my, that makes my whole day better.

• 1:06:25Speaker 04

  Love that song, by the way.

• 1:06:26Dr. John Delony?

  "Thank you, Jackson." And, for the record, if you had the unlucky, um, situation of, in high school or college, and someone was like, "Ooh, you just got delonied." That wasn't a good thing. It was not a good thing. And now, look at this! Redeeming it.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  You're a verb.

• 1:06:45Dr. John Delony?

  We're redeeming it. I've always been a verb, but it's getting, it's getting kinder. Doesn't have the same negative connotation anymore, so that's fantastic. Hey, everybody! Be nice to each other, be kind.

• 1:06:58Dr. John Delony?

  Don't do drugs, stay in school, all that stuff. Happy New Year. Bye.