Scarpetta

In the Prime Video series Scarpetta, Nicole Kidman plays a tough, smart medical examiner whose latest murder case is entangled with a much earlier one. The show's got a big cast including Jamie Lee Curtis, Bobby Cannavale and Ariana DeBose. Scarpetta is based on a series of successful crime novels by Patricia Cornwell. See pcm.adswizz.com https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences. NPR Privacy Policy https://www.npr.org/about-npr/179878450/privacy-policy

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:28Speaker 00

  Medical examiner Case Scarpetta has been featured in a very successful series of thriller novels by Patricia Cornwell since 1990. Now, finally, she's coming to television. A new Prime Video series stars Nicole Kidman as the tough, smart Scarpetta, whose latest murder case is entangled with a much earlier one. It was the one that made her reputation, and now she's not sure she got it right. The show's got a big cast, including Jamie Lee Curtis, Bobby Cannavale, and Ariana DeBose. I'm Linda Holmes, and today we're talking about Scarpetta on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

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• 2:15Linda Holmes?

  Joining me today is the host of the podcast Happy to be here, Greta Johnson. Hello, Greta. Hello, Linda. Also with us is Christina Tucker. She's the co-host of the podcast Wait, Is This a Date? Hello, Christina. Yodel sleigh, hee hoo. Ooh. And rounding out the panel is culture writer Margaret H. Wilson. Hello, Margaret. Hello, Linda. So happy to be here to unpack this all with you guys. What an incredibly lively panel. I'm so delighted to have all of you here. So Patricia Cornwell has written close to 30 novels about Kay Scarpetta, a medical examiner whose work in forensics has made her a legend. Nicole Kidman plays Kay, adding another TV series to what's become a pretty busy schedule.

• 2:56Linda Holmes?

  Her flaky sister Dorothy, played by Jamie Lee Curtis, is married to Pete, a former cop who is Kay's longtime bestie and who helps her out on the side. He's played by Bobby Cannavale. Kay has been taking care of Dorothy's daughter Lucy, played by Ariana DeBose, since she was a child. And the tech-savvy Lucy is now dealing with the death of her wife. Kay's husband Benton, played by Simon Baker, works for the FBI. Kay's latest case involves a murdered woman, who immediately reminds Kay of a case she handled many years earlier. That's right, people, it's a dual timeline. We watch the much younger Kay, played by Rosie McEwen, work that case with the much younger Pete in his cop days.

• 3:41Linda Holmes?

  He's played by Bobby Cannavale's son Jake. There is a tremendous amount going on in these eight episodes. We are going to try to make our way through it. The series is streaming now on Prime Video, and we should mention Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content. I hardly know where to begin, but it is always good to begin with Christina. So I'm going to begin with Christina. Talk to me about Scarpetta.

• 4:09Speaker 05

  I wish I could coherently because the show did not present itself in a way that allows me to discuss it coherently for the show is rather incoherent. I love a procedural. I love a cranky lady in her 50s in charge. I love to see Nicole Kidman on a screen. I was ready to be pretty easily satisfied by this show. I was like, okay, this won't be groundbreaking, but it's going to be watchable. Is it? I don't know. I think it's, again, trying to do so much, but I don't know that it knows what it wants to do. So it's just trying some of everything and it's not working for me.

• 4:48Linda Holmes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Greta, how about you? What'd you think?

• 4:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, Christina really nailed it. I feel like we should also bring up Nicole Kidman smoking cigarettes and how deeply satisfying that is, but that might be the biggest upside for me from the show.

• 5:04Speaker 05

  Like, she doesn't even have a crazy wig.

• 5:06Speaker 06

  No.

• 5:08Speaker 06

  In the first couple of minutes, I was sort of like, oh, are they trying to do Mayor of Easttown? Like, is that kind of what's happening here?

• 5:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 5:14Speaker 06

  And they did not. They did not do Mayor of Easttown. I feel like I had to work really hard to come up with, like, redeeming things about this show. And the one I came up with, which I feel like is still a bit of a stretch, is that we did get queer representation in AI.

• 5:35Linda Holmes?

  So important.

• 5:35Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, I think it's really beautiful that every queer character simply must be a hacker and they have to be doing AI. I think it's a beautiful space for us to be.

• 5:46Linda Holmes?

  Hey, hey, they could just be an overachieving police detective.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  That's also true.

• 5:51Linda Holmes?

  With no special tech savvy.

• 5:52Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 5:53Linda Holmes?

  Love it. I love it. Margaret, how did we get here? What happened with Scarpetta?

• 5:57Speaker 07

  I was really struggling with this show, specifically as like a panelist, because I was like, how do I even, what opinion do I have about this? It's too strangely shaped for me to have any kind of potent take. And then... Sometime around, I think it's episode five, which is like, hello from space, my dear. That is when I realized, I was like, oh, I do have a take. My take is, this show demonstrates the challenge of long-running detective series.

• 6:29Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 07

  I haven't read the Scarpetta books, right? But I have read many, a long-running detective series. And the fundamental issue is, you start in book one, and it's like grounded. It's like, yeah, I am a medical examiner in a small town. And I have a serial killer I've got to catch. And maybe they're going to start targeting me. And I've got cops, and it's all very normal. And then you're, you become Batman, solving the mystery of dead astronauts. And off the top of my head, I know how blood spewed into the atmosphere by a bullet in low gravity would perform and also interact with a spaceship's, like, engineering. Like, I just walk into the postmortem space, and I just know that.

• 7:12Linda Holmes?

  Right, right, right.

• 7:13Speaker 07

  And that is just like, I've seen so many small-time detectives become Batman. And basically, it left me feeling like, if the show had been smart enough to just adapt the first book in the series, instead of pairing it with this much, much later book that has all these kind of wackadoo plot points, I think it would have been a much more successful show.

• 7:36Linda Holmes?

  I would have loved to have somebody on the panel who is a Scarpetta completist, who has read all the books. We did not find such a person who wanted to do this, but I did buy the first one. And I did sort of read through it to get a sense of how they work. And much to my non-surprise, it is a, and I say this respectfully, I say this as praise. It is a sturdy, traditionally-written crime book. As you said, Margaret, there is a, you know, I am a medical examiner. This is my job. There's a lot of the actual forensics. And all of this interpersonal drama is around the edges. And that is how books like this typically work.

• 8:17Speaker 07

  Right.

• 8:18Linda Holmes?

  For some reason, in making this show, they did not trust that people really wanted a story about the forensics, and that people did not want a procedural. Trying to incorporate close to 30 books worth of backstory.

• 8:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 8:33Linda Holmes?

  I mean, not all of which they're trying to incorporate, but the basic shape of which they're kind of trying to incorporate.

• 8:38Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're touching a lot of rails.

• 8:40Linda Holmes?

  In eight episodes, you basically have the current crime, the past crime. You have Kay's current marital difficulties, which have some really weird stuff thrown in. You have her meeting of her husband back in the day and how they got together. You have her current dynamic with Pete. You have her past dynamic with Pete. You have her current dynamic with her niece who lives with her. You have her past dynamic with her niece, her current dynamic with her sister, her sister's current dynamic with Pete. And on top of all of this, somebody said, what if Lucy, the niece, not that I expect you to remember all these names, what if Lucy, the niece, was dealing with her grief

• 9:25Linda Holmes?

  over her deceased wife by having built an AI version of her wife that she's keeping alive on a bank of computers?

• 9:34Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 9:34Linda Holmes?

  Why?

• 9:35Speaker 05

  Who was going to do all of the emotional heavy lifting for basically every character.

• 9:40Linda Holmes?

  Every character. And also some sort of plot moving forward by dropping information.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's just there to do like literally AI exposition.

• 9:50Linda Holmes?

  They didn't trust what this property is, and that's what I think is really a shame. The property is a procedural. I don't know how you guys feel, but there's not much detectiving or medical examining in this series. It's mostly all the other stuff.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  I think that's why I liked the flashbacks more so than whatever was going on in the current timeline, because I was like, this feels, I understand what we're doing here. We're getting clues.

• 10:19Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 05

  We're solving a mystery. I'm understanding how relationships are unfolding. And then we would zoom back to the present time and then Jamie Lee Curtis would just kind of breastfeeding Boobly everywhere, which like, God love her. I like, I don't really want it to stop. I want this acting to not be the thing that. She's doing anymore. I want to just take that down a scooch, a scooch, Jamie.

• 10:41Linda Holmes?

  Yeah. Unfortunately, this is really her, her role in the bear.

• 10:47Speaker 05

  Yeah, she's just in her like big scene chewing era.

• 10:50Linda Holmes?

  It did feel a lot like that. And you know, one of the things that's interesting, we were talking about why they decided to do it this way. Apparently the sort of the kind of mover on getting all of this done and made was Jamie Lee Curtis. You know, was the one who sort of, you know, developed and worked on this project. So you're naturally going to

• 11:06Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:06Linda Holmes?

  Get the part of it with Jamie Lee Curtis and Nicole Kidman. And, you know, maybe they didn't feel that they had an actor to play the young Scarpetta, who was the same kind of draw that Nicole Kidman would be. With the problem being, I don't know that Nicole Kidman is that much of a draw anymore because of how much like, okay, television she has made in the last few years.

• 11:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'm just kind of like, oh, another one.

• 11:31Speaker 07

  Really just determined to water down her brand.

• 11:34Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 11:34Speaker 06

  Christina, it's so interesting that, and it sounds like Margaret too, you both preferred the flashbacks.

• 11:39Speaker 07

  Oh, vastly.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 06

  That's so interesting to me because I thought that was really what weighed down the story. I think especially like, you know, speaking of Jamie Lee Curtis, Nicole Kidman, Bobby Cannavale and Simon Baker, like this is a cast.

• 11:52Speaker 07

  Yes.

• 11:53Speaker 06

  But then to go through the burden of recasting all of these people in their younger versions and try to make emotional sense between what's going on there and what's going on in the present day. Like I'm, I don't know, there obviously are myriad reasons why this show didn't quite work. But to me, a lot of it was just those flashbacks were so weighed down, I thought.

• 12:13Speaker 05

  There was stuff in the past that felt like a narrative. And then every time we flashback to where, whatever this future is, I was like, well, I don't know how we got here.

• 12:23Speaker 07

  Why are there biosynthetic organs in space?

• 12:25Speaker 05

  I will say it took me a shockingly long time, maybe to like episode five or six where I was like, this young Bobby Cannavale is really giving young Bobby Cannavale. And then I said, well, yes, his son would.

• 12:37Linda Holmes?

  His child, yeah. And I will say, I do think that Rosie McEwen gives a lot of young Nicole Kidman. I think that's pretty persuasive.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  No.

• 12:45Linda Holmes?

  One of the things I think is interesting. About this conversation and and interesting about kind of the scope of where television is right now is that there are so many novels that I look at and I think, yes, you know, the current streaming model where you have, you know, 10 ish, this is eight, but you have maybe somewhere between eight and 12 episodes of a drama, they drop either once a week or they drop all at once, you know, you get that done and that's the novel. If you think about something like Lessons in Chemistry, right, which Brie Larson was in, that's pretty well suited to that kind of format. But not everything is made to be that way. And I think there are books and book series

• 13:25Linda Holmes?

  that trying to force them into a prestige drama mode is not going to serve the book that well because it doesn't allow all of the mechanics of the original writing and the book series Yes. to operate the way that they should. And I think the success of The Pit, which is it's obviously kind of a hybrid between a traditional doctor show and a current prestige drama for a bunch of format related reasons. But it has more episodes, right? It has 15 episodes. Right. I think there's a place for them to say, you know, let's do something closer to old style television

• 14:09Linda Holmes?

  where you have this great medical examiner and that's been done, right? That's what Quincy was. You're all way too young for Quincy, but that's what Quincy was. There have been other shows starring a medical examiner, a coroner. I loved Bones. Right. Bones, exactly. Like, you know, and some of those shows probably owe some of their success to people operating off of the K. Scarpetta model. And it's a shame to see that this, to me, has kind of sacrificed those shows the best thing that this could have been. Right. To me, it's not, I like the current and I don't like the flashbacks and it's not, I like the flashbacks and I don't like the current. It's either would have been better without.

• 14:51Linda Holmes?

  Both.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  I do think both is hugely the problem.

• 14:54Linda Holmes?

  When you get into like the third episode and you realize that you've seen like 10 minutes of eight different stories.

• 15:02Speaker 06

  It's too much.

• 15:04Linda Holmes?

  I didn't feel like I had time to get invested in anything.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 15:07Linda Holmes?

  There's also, by the way, no structural real divide between the flashbacks and the current. They just cut scene to scene. I was constantly like relocating myself like, oh, okay.

• 15:19Speaker 06

  Who is that again?

• 15:20Linda Holmes?

  It's not like ones in black and white and ones in color. It's like you're just in your head, going back and forth.

• 15:25Speaker 07

  The costumes on this show in all eras are so misguided. Because like in the past, you would hope that they could use the costumes to effectively signal the time period.

• 15:37Speaker 06

  Right.

• 15:37Speaker 07

  Instead, I've just got to be anchored by like she listens to an Alanis Morissette song in one episode and they go to see the X-Files movie.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  But also she's like addicted to a three-piece suit. Couldn't get the girl out of a three-piece suit.

• 15:47Speaker 07

  But it doesn't have like a shoulder pad. Like there's nothing about that suit that she couldn't get at a store today.

• 15:53Speaker 05

  It's like old timey is the vibe.

• 15:55Linda Holmes?

  Uh huh.

• 15:56Speaker 07

  And then in the meantime, we have like Ariana DeBose visiting her dead wife's grave in ripped up denim culottes, suit vest and a tie, like a necktie, but no colored shirt under the suit vest, just bare chest under the suit vest.

• 16:13Speaker 05

  Linda, she's gay.

• 16:14Speaker 07

  Look, she is gay, but like as much as I understand the gay aesthetic in fashion and like I would not be surprised to see that at a Muna show.

• 16:23Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 16:23Speaker 07

  Like I would be surprised to see that at a graveside. And as a way of anchoring me in the character, it's giving me too much and not enough at the same time. Ditto Jamie Lee Curtis's costumes.

• 16:35Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Giving me a lot of two things.

• 16:37Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 16:38Speaker 07

  Truly never had an opportunity to contemplate that woman's breasts the way this show invited me to.

• 16:42Speaker 06

  I mean, thank God for that, right?

• 16:44Speaker 07

  I had to contemplate something.

• 16:45Linda Holmes?

  I mean, it's one of those things where like I try not to comment on like people's bodies and shows, but this show is basically making that a big part of sort of who she is and what her char- how her character presents.

• 16:58Speaker 05

  She's an extra- hypersexual children's book author, of course.

• 17:02Speaker 07

  A classic type.

• 17:03Linda Holmes?

  That is right. That is right.

• 17:04Speaker 06

  Can I also just shout out the worst use of box cello suites?

• 17:09Speaker 05

  Okay, every single time I was like, why are we doing this?

• 17:13Speaker 06

  To choose that iconic, especially soundtrack song for two people having sex in a bathroom.

• 17:20Speaker 05

  Is such a wild choice.

• 17:23Linda Holmes?

  I also have to say, like, as we've talked about sort of the what's in the foreground, which is the personal stuff versus kind of what's in the background, which is the medical examiner stuff. If you're not going to put the medical examiner stuff in the foreground, it begins to look pretty bad how often you're looking at nude bodies of dead women that have had parts of them chopped off and things like that. If you're not going to really do the forensics, if you're not going to focus on what this all, like how her process of making sense of all of this, right? Her process of taking this horrible scene and making sense of it. There's a lot of nude dead bodies here that are pretty attentively shot.

• 18:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:05Linda Holmes?

  And some of them have been badly mutilated and

• 18:09Speaker 07

  All of beautiful young women.

• 18:10Linda Holmes?

  And you get to the point where it's like, okay, I get that this is part of it, but those visuals to me have to be approached with a little bit of care in terms of how you're deploying them. Otherwise, like Jamie Lee Curtis's boobs, it comes off a little bit like it's to be seen, right?

• 18:29Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 18:30Linda Holmes?

  I don't know. I think that's odd.

• 18:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was kind of in my craw as well. And I think especially in the first episode, I was kind of like, okay, I see what we're doing here. Right? We have this case that reminds her of an old case. So we're like really digging into this like, and shoot, this is her job. We're really digging into like what it means to be a metal examiner. And it does in fact mean cracking open a chest. Right?

• 18:49Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 05

  I love that. Classic. And then they just start to forget about that, but seem to the need to remind us that what we are dealing with is in fact murder. And they're like shortcut for that is just like, well, here's another dead body that we're going to slowly pan over.

• 19:04Linda Holmes?

  I mean, it makes sense that in her line of work, she's going to be looking at dead bodies. It's not that I don't understand that. It's that there are ways to do that that are more and less kind of lurid. I think the more that you focus on the fact that she is unfortunately being confronted with these things because of what she does, then the more it seems like it's organic to the story and the show and her character. Right? Whether that's her character is very upset by seeing things like this or that she isn't. And both of those things can be valid, right? Especially by the time she's in her 50s or whatever she is. Maybe it doesn't upset her that much.

• 19:43Speaker 05

  Well, Linda, she met death when she was 11. That was her formative moment.

• 19:47Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's defined her whole life.

• 19:49Linda Holmes?

  I even noticed that like in all of the like previously on Scarpetta, they seem to always really go back to some of these shots of the bodies. And I always think, is there not another way you could have done that? Other like, just don't use the dead bodies as like, this is our key beauty shot or something like that.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, I was really hoping for more of like the kind of getting into the gritty part of like, yes, this is what it means to be a medical examiner.

• 20:13Linda Holmes?

  And I think the books have that.

• 20:14Speaker 05

  And then I kind of felt like the rug was pulled out of, under me a little bit. Like they were like, yeah, you get a little bit of this, but actually, no, we're just going to give you kind of these kind of grotesque shots and you're gonna deal.

• 20:25Speaker 07

  When the most emotionally relatable character in your present timeline is

• 20:30Speaker 05

  AI.

• 20:31Speaker 07

  AI.

• 20:31Speaker 05

  The robot.

• 20:32Speaker 07

  AI life. That's both a dramatic misrepresentation of what AI is capable of at this point in time.

• 20:39Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 20:39Speaker 07

  And a real writing problem.

• 20:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 20:41Linda Holmes?

  Yeah.

• 20:42Speaker 06

  Speaking of Scarpetta's character, the other thing I found kind of troubling was that when it came to the fact that they may have gotten this case wrong, there didn't seem to be as much concern for like justice as there was for her reputation. Which also, you know, it's like, if you got the wrong guy, that's a huge problem for the other people who this guy is going to try and murder.

• 21:06Speaker 05

  Right.

• 21:07Speaker 06

  Arguably more so than whether or not you're going to have a job.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Right.

• 21:11Speaker 06

  You know?

• 21:12Linda Holmes?

  And whether it like invalidates you professionally is something I understand talking about like with your husband.

• 21:19Speaker 05

  Sure.

• 21:19Linda Holmes?

  Maybe. But I don't know that it's the point of the problem. And I think without spoiling anything, I can say it becomes clear, I think, pretty quickly that there's like maybe a little bit less to that part of the story than meets the eye anyway.

• 21:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:37Linda Holmes?

  The idea of, you know, the cases are connected, you get this wrong. It's not that it isn't anything, but it's a little bit less

• 21:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 21:44Linda Holmes?

  compelling that part of the story anyway.

• 21:47Speaker 07

  This just got badly fumbled.

• 21:49Speaker 05

  It makes me sad. It just feels like it's one of those opportunities where I'm just like, I don't understand how like, long-running series like this are not such an easy thing to just, just, just like, make it happen. I just feel like it should not be as challenging as it is, but it feels like they just really were like, we want to grab a little bit of everything from everywhere and sprinkle it in here.

• 22:08Speaker 06

  It does seem like it should just be highly adaptable.

• 22:10Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:11Speaker 07

  Well, I just think we should all pour one out for the 2005 procedural Jamie Lee Curtis as Scarpetta. We should have had that.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  That's a good point.

• 22:19Speaker 07

  And I am sad that the world fumbled it, because I would have watched it in reruns on TNT until the day I died.

• 22:27Speaker 06

  And then you could watch The Mentalist right after. It would have been great.

• 22:30Speaker 07

  It would have been great. It would have been a much better use of both their talents.

• 22:34Speaker 05

  Everybody's talents.

• 22:34Linda Holmes?

  That's absolutely true. Absolutely true. I am sort of fascinated by things like this that feel to me like they don't work at all.

• 22:43Speaker 05

  Well, then it's like, am I missing something?

• 22:45Linda Holmes?

  Like, well, we've sort of alluded to this, but like, I think particularly Nicole Kidman and Ariana DeBose are both people I feel like I see a lot, but I don't necessarily see them doing the kinds of things that I think are the best use of their talents. You know, obviously Ariana DeBose, I do think she could be doing more interesting stuff than this. And certainly Nicole Kidman, who seems to now show up very regularly in these sort of TV shows that are fine. Maybe this is the way in which there's too much television. It's just, I stopped caring about some of the things that used to make me go, because

• 23:27Linda Holmes?

  you know, you remember back in Big Little Lies days, it was like, oh, Nicole Kidman's in this. Oh, that's interesting.

• 23:33Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:33Linda Holmes?

  Yeah. I think we're all a little bit confused by this one, but I'm, I'm curious to hear what other people think. We want to know what you think about Scarpetta. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH. That brings us to the end of our show. Greta Johnson, Christina Tucker, Margaret H. Willison, thank you for being here and helping me make my way through Scarpetta.

• 23:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:51Speaker 07

  An honor.

• 23:52Speaker 05

  It was a huge honor.

• 23:53Linda Holmes?

  Thank you. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fathama and Mike Katzif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.

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