Legends 48: Oh Deer

Roaming around a small wooded corner of folklore are four-legged creatures that might not be what they seem. These legends hold a lot of danger…and maybe something darker. Narrated and produced by Aaron Mahnke, with writing by Alex Robinson and research by Cassandra de Alba. ————————— Lore Resources: Episode Music: lorepodcast.com/music http://www.lorepodcast.com/music Episode Sources: lorepodcast.com/sources http://www.lorepodcast.com/sources All the shows from Grim & Mild: www.grimandmild.com http://www.grimandmild.com ————————— Sponsors: Mint Mobile: For a limited time, wireless plans from Mint Mobile are $15 a month when you purchase a 3-month plan with UNLIMITED talk, text and data at MintMobile.com/lore http://www.mintmobile.com/lore. Smalls: Smalls cat food is protein packed recipes made with preservative free ingredients you'd find in your fridge… and it's delivered right to your door. For 50% off your first order, head to Smalls.com http://www.smalls.com and use code LORE. Squarespace: Head to Squarespace.com/lore http://squarespace.com/lore to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using the code LORE. ————————— To report a concern regarding a radio-style, non-Aaron ad in this episode, reach out to ads @ lorepodcast.com with the name of the company or organization so we can look into it. ————————— To advertise on this podcast please email: [email protected]. Or go to: https://advertising.libsyn.com/lore ————————— ©2025 Aaron Mahnke. All rights reserved.

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• 1:00Aaron Mahnke?

  Welcome to lore legends, a subset of lore episodes that explore the strange tales we whisper in the dark, even if they can't always be proven by the history books. So if you're ready, let's begin.

• 1:28Aaron Mahnke?

  All across America, there are bridges where you can hear a baby crying. This urban legend is fittingly called the Crybaby Bridge. If you have a spot in your hometown where people claim to hear ghostly babies wail, then I'm sorry to tell you, but your Crybaby Bridge isn't all that unique. In Kentucky, a bridge on Sleepy Hollow Road is rumored to be the site where mothers would drown their unwanted newborn babies. In Salem, Ohio, a bridge on Egypt Road is said to be where a child tripped and fell into the water. There's a bridge in New Jersey, one in Illinois, and there are at least three Crybaby Bridges in both Maryland and Texas. In Port Neches, Texas, legend speaks of a man...

• 2:10Aaron Mahnke?

  who allegedly decapitated a mother before throwing her baby Sarah Jane into a river full of alligators. The baby could still be heard crying to this day, and the mother's headless body can be seen wandering the woods nearby, calling out for little Sarah Jane, although I'm not quite so sure how she does that, without a mouth. But although it's not fun to hear, almost none of these local tales are true. Folklorist Jesse Glass has said that most Crybaby Bridge stories were invented on the internet. There was no oral tradition behind them, just an anonymous creative individual, sitting behind a keyboard. They are stories that were made up to generate clicks in a world where viral posts are a form of fame and glory.

• 2:53Aaron Mahnke?

  And sure, sprinkled among them are a handful that might go deeper into the past, the rare hand-me-downs of older traditions from generations ago. But most of these legends are nothing more than that: fiction. The tougher question, though, is how we can tell the difference. These stories might be part of our local culture, but in the end, they're not always what they seem to be. What truths do these stories hide? Products of a creative mind? Or the remnants of a terrifying past? I'm Aaron Mahnke, and this is Lore Legends.

• 3:42Aaron Mahnke?

  There are forty-three species of deer in our world. If you live in the eastern United States like me, you're probably the most familiar with the whitetail deer. If you live in England, you may be more familiar with the red deer, or the Chinese water deer. And if you're visiting Japan's famous Nara Park, you'll be seeing sika deer. Interestingly, deer are native to every continent on Earth aside from Australia and Antarctica. They've been featured in art since humans first started drawing on cave walls. They've starred in poetry since humans first picked up the pen, and so it is unsurprising that there are as many variations of deer in folklore as there are in real life.

• 4:22Aaron Mahnke?

  In ancient Chinese mythology, deer were associated with fairies who would ride on their backs. They also symbolized longevity, and if one appeared to a monarch, then it was a sign that he would be a fair and righteous ruler. In Norse mythology, a stag named Aiktyrniir stood at the top of Valhalla. All of the world's rivers were believed to flow from his antlers. And four other stags were said to eat the leaves of the world tree, Yggdrasil. Some scholars have suggested that these stags correspond to the four seasons, or perhaps the four elements. In Cherokee legends, a white deer named Awie Usti watched over hunters, ensuring that they asked for forgiveness for every deer they shot down.

• 5:04Aaron Mahnke?

  If the hunters neglected this step, then Awie Usti would cripple them. And over in England, in the West Midlands village of Abbots Bromley, a traditional horn dance has been performed every year since 1226. Some historians say that it's gone on even longer, in part because the antlers used in this ritual have been carbon dated to the year 1065. On the day of the horn dance, six men danced through the village while carrying caribou antlers. They are followed by a procession that includes a person dressed as a hobby horse, a boy carrying a bow and arrow, and a fool playing a triangle. It's believed that these characters were once figures from a play, but if so, then the play has since been lost to history.

• 5:46Aaron Mahnke?

  The horn dance was a ritual meant to ensure a successful hunting season. Some historians have floated the idea that it was once a fertility ritual as well, but more evidence is needed to support that. Oh, and by the way, this horn dance is considered to be one of the oldest folk traditions in all of Britain, and it's such an important one that three Abbots Bromley men were granted leave during World War I so that they could participate in the dance back home. The antlers are not allowed to leave the parish where they're kept when they're not being paraded around, and if they are removed, then rumor has it that a great calamity will befall the village. Those antlers don't just ensure prosperity, they protect the entire town. And throughout history, deer weren't just there to bring about successful hunts.

• 6:31Aaron Mahnke?

  They've also been used as political tools as well. According to the historian Plutarch, the Roman statesman Quintus Sertorius was once given a white doe as a gift. He then told the military generals under his command that Diana, the goddess of the hunt, spoke to him through the doe. And to ensure that everyone believed this bold claim, he would make sure that his messengers would only deliver military news directly to him. Then, he would claim that the deer had come to him in his dreams and told him where to move his troops, or where they could expect news of a victory. Once, he even held a tribunal and staged for the white doe to come running to him as a sign of Diana's favor for him. Actually, throughout history, deer have frequently been tied to women, from the Roman goddess

• 7:16Aaron Mahnke?

  Diana to the Slava goddess Rohanitsa, and fairy tales have taken their clue from this connection. One 17th-century French fairy tale features a beautiful princess who is cursed to turn into a deer. A powerful fairy crab—yes, you heard that right, a fairy crab—was furious at not being invited to the princess's christening, and so the princess was transformed into a deer, and she didn't turn back until a handsome prince intervened. The French Fairy Crab fairy tale isn't the only one with a deer transformation. In the Persian fairy tale, What the Rose Did to the Cyprus, a prince who has failed in a quest is turned into a deer as punishment. But the enchantress who cursed him adorned his antlers with gold and jewels, and the

• 8:01Aaron Mahnke?

  deer prince becomes the leader of a great herd of deer. In the end, the enchantress's sister breaks the spell, and then she marries the prince. As you'd imagine, transforming into a deer is a pretty common trope in both fairy tales and folklore. And of course, the story usually ends with the cursed individual transforming back into a human. But sometimes, they don't.

• 8:34Aaron Mahnke?

  Her attackers had followed her into the woods. Then, when they were far away enough from civilization, they struck. When they were finished with their horrible deed, they left her to bleed out on the forest floor. Far from any settlement, deep in the trees, no one could hear her scream. No one, that is, except the stag. When he did, he raced to save her, but he sadly wasn't fast enough. By the time he found her broken body, she had already died. And so the stag did the only thing that he could: he brought her back to life. But when she awoke, she was half-human and half-deer. And thus, the Deer Woman was born. The Deer Woman is a common Native American legend from both the eastern woodlands and

• 9:19Aaron Mahnke?

  the Central Plains tribes of North America. She can be found in the traditions of at least a dozen people groups, and that's a lot of tribes, for sure. But no matter where in the world people settle, there are always marginalized women who deserve vengeance for how they were treated. And at her very core, that's what the Deer Woman is: a harbinger of vengeance. In most depictions, she is a beautiful young lady with long, black hair and a buckskin dress. Instead of feet, though, she has hooves, and in some variations, she also has antlers growing from her head. Once she was brought back to life after her vicious attack, she became a supernatural being that roamed the forest, protecting women from violence and enacting revenge on their behalf.

• 10:03Aaron Mahnke?

  Now, in some versions of her story, she lures violent men into the forest and then stomps them to death with her hooves. In others, she eats their flesh, and occasionally she seduces them through enchantments to live in the forest with her. But once they're ensnared by her magic, they will fall into a depression and eventually die. According to the stories, the only way for men to escape her deadly lure is to notice her hooves before she has them alone. If they can recognize her for who she is, then they have a chance to run before she fully entraps them. Now, it may sound like an ancient story, but the Deer Woman legends haven't died yet. In fact, they've carried over to modern day. One Deer Woman story actually takes place in the 1960s or 70s.

• 10:48Aaron Mahnke?

  It's said to have happened at the Haskell Memorial Football Stadium in Lawrence, Kansas. It was a beautiful autumn night, and the stands were packed with fans. An unusually beautiful woman had joined the football fanatics that night. Wrapped in a tribal blanket, she weaved her way in and out of the tight crowd, turning heads as she went. Her face was so stunning that it took hours for someone to finally notice. She had hooves. Once she was discovered, she ran to the top rim of the stadium and leapt off, falling over eighty feet. The crowd expected to see her body shattered on the ground below, but instead, witnesses report seeing her run away into the night. There are also several modern reports claiming to have seen a Deer Woman at powwows.

• 11:33Aaron Mahnke?

  In one, a beautiful woman attended a powwow, only disappearing after she went to the restroom, and the other women noticed her hooves underneath the bathroom stall. In another story, a security guard claimed to have been patrolling powwow grounds on a winter's night. He saw a female figure at the border of the forest, and when he approached, he intended to ask her what she was doing there, but then he froze. The footsteps leading to the woman weren't made by human feet, they were made by deer hooves. Turning, he sprinted to his car and sped away before the woman could catch him. There is a reason that the Deer Woman story has endured for so long. There's a reason that people still want to believe in her, hooves and all.

• 12:16Aaron Mahnke?

  In a world where women face just as much violence as ever, it can be comforting to know that there is someone in the wings waiting to help them, or at the very least, enact revenge for them, even if that helper is adorned with antlers.

• 12:43Aaron Mahnke?

  Governor White stood in the middle of Roanoke Colony utterly helpless. The entire town was empty. Of the original 100 settlers, not a single soul was left. Not even his granddaughter, Virginia Dare. Virginia had been the very first English baby born in North America. She came into the world on August 18th of 1587, and now, on her third birthday, her grandfather had arrived to find her and every one of his constituents, missing. And most of us know the basics of this historical mystery. To this day, no one knows for sure what happened to the Roanoke Colony. A large number of modern historians believe that after running out of food and supplies,

• 13:25Aaron Mahnke?

  the colonists peacefully integrated themselves with the local Algonquin tribe living on Croatoan island. One 19th-century theory, though, proposed that only a handful of those settlers joined the tribe. The story claims that the Roanoke settlement was attacked by the Roanoke Algonquins, led by a warrior named Wanches. The leader had previously had a good relationship with the English, but had cut ties with them in 1586. Once Wanches ended his friendliness with the English settlers, their only native ally was Mantio, the leader of the Croatoan-Algonquin peoples. And according to this theory, Mantio saved a handful of the Roanoke colonists from Wanches's 1587 raid, including baby Virginia Dare. But earlier theories regarding the Wanches attacks

• 14:10Aaron Mahnke?

  simply say that Virginia and her mother managed to escape and join the Croatoan tribe on their own. Virginia Dare was a popular fascination for the Americans of the 19th century. They were absolutely certain that she had survived, possibly because the thought of a baby being killed in cold blood was too gruesome to bear. But she also provided them with a convenient opportunity to project their favorite fictional trope onto her story, that of a beautiful, virtuous woman being raised among the, and I quote, "savage natives." And so, in 1837, the first book about Virginia Dare growing up among the Croatoan peoples as a blonde pillar of white virtue was published. It inspired a slew of others, too,

• 14:54Aaron Mahnke?

  which then in turn turned into folklore about Virginia almost 300 years after she died. According to the most popular folk tale, Virginia Dare grew into a beautiful woman, attracting the adoration of several Ogonkwin suitors. Two men in particular became enamored with her. An equally kind and virtuous man named Okusko and an old covetous sorcerer named Chico. When Chico asked for Virginia's hand in marriage, she turned him down. And so, in his fury, Chico tricked her into drinking an evil potion. After her first sip, Virginia fell to the ground writhing in pain. And when she finally stood up, her legs were that of a deer. She had been turned into a white doe.

• 15:38Aaron Mahnke?

  From that point on, people started noticing a beautiful white deer wandering around the abandoned Roanoke Colony. And at other times, she was seen leading a herd of deer, who had clearly recognized her pure heart and elected to follow her. Meanwhile, her lover, Okusko, was putting two and two together. Sightings of the white deer had only begun after Virginia had disappeared, and he knew that Chico was perfectly capable of turning people into animals. So, Okusko went to another sorcerer for help. And this sorcerer taught him how to make an arrowhead out of a mother-of-pearl oyster shell. If Okusko pierced her heart with his special arrowhead, then she would turn back into a human. The trouble was, he wasn't the only one tracking the deer.

• 16:23Aaron Mahnke?

  Wanchi's, the alleged attacker of the Roanoke Colony, was also trying to bring the white deer down for his own personal glory. And to do so, he planned to use a silver arrowhead that had been gifted to him by none other than Queen Elizabeth. For weeks, both Okusko and Wanchi's stalked the deer. And of course, they both found her at the exact same moment. Each man took aim as she bent her head to drink from a pool. Okusko's mother-of-pearl arrow pierced her heart, just as Wanchi's silver arrow met its target. One arrow turned Virginia back into a human, and the other killed her instantly. Realizing what he had done, Wanchi's fled the scene. Okusko carried Virginia's body out of the forest, but instead of bringing her to the

• 17:08Aaron Mahnke?

  only home she had ever known on Croatoan, he laid her body to rest in the Roanoke Colony Fort. It's said that even to this day, a phantom white deer haunts the location of the abandoned Roanoke Colony. Anyone who tries to harm this deer, they say, is cursed to experience terrible misfortune. And over at the pool where Virginia's heart was shot, legend claims that a grapevine grew where her body fell to the earth. A vine with grapes that were the color of blood.

• 17:54Aaron Mahnke?

  I think it's pretty obvious, the Virginia Dare legend is a work of fiction. There's no evidence that Wanchi's ever attacked the colonists and no concrete record of what happened to little Virginia after those colonists disappeared. But honestly, every folk tale is fiction to some degree or another. So what makes this one any different? Well, a lot of the details were invented to sell wine. You see, Virginia Dare wasn't just the name of the Roanoke governor's granddaughter. It was also the name of a wine company. Before prohibition, Virginia Dare wine was the most popular wine in the United States. And they got to that point in part through their advertising, a campaign that included a book-length poem from the turn of the century called

• 18:38Aaron Mahnke?

  "The White Dough: The Fate of Virginia Dare." This poem, which came decades after the first Virginia Dare story was published, added the love triangle, the reasoning behind Virginia's transformation into a dough, and most importantly, the blood-red grapes. Those grapes were meant to be the grapes that Virginia Dare Company used to make their wine. And they had thought that by connecting their grapes to a tragic story about the ever-popular Virginia Dare, it might compel more women to buy their product. The poem's author, Sally Southall Cotton, was actually a leader in the women's rights movement, but she was also known as a white supremacist.

• 19:17Aaron Mahnke?

  Sally was deeply interested in Virginia Dare as a symbol for noble whiteness and European superiority over other races. And the legacy of her obsession continues to this day. The modern white supremacist group V. Dare is named after Virginia Dare, and it has a deer as its logo. The story about Virginia Dare turning into a white deer may now be accepted in some circles as real folklore, but it was an invention with a dark purpose. Even years before Sally Cotton wrote her own take on the legend, Virginia Dare was being used to symbolize the goodness of the white settler over the native inhabitants. And the white deer was no accident either. For centuries, the white deer was a common motif in English literature,

• 20:01Aaron Mahnke?

  standing in as a symbol for Christian virtue. But that's what's complicated about folklore. No matter how a story started, or how hateful its original messaging truly was, once it's accepted by the general public as a genuine legend, then it takes on a life of its own. It's a powerful example of how everyday folks like you and I can pick up a story and carry it with us without seeing the filth that it's covered in. We're drawn to one aspect or another, unaware that they are nothing more than decals, hiding some marketing campaign or twisted propaganda. All we see is a beautiful story, without ever noticing... the hooves.

• 20:54Aaron Mahnke?

  I hope you enjoyed today's trip into the world of deer-related legends. Personally, I did expect many of them to feature terrifying origins, just not in the way it ended up unfolding. It's what makes folklore so hard to define, and its origins even harder to swallow. But we're not out of the woods just yet. We have one more deer to stalk, and this one just might stalk us right back. Stick around through this brief sponsor break to hear all about it.

• 21:22Aaron Mahnke?

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• 22:07Aaron Mahnke?

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• 22:50Aaron Mahnke?

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• 23:34Aaron Mahnke?

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• 24:18Aaron Mahnke?

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• 25:03Aaron Mahnke?

  And you can even use your Squarespace site to sell digital content, things like memberships, or courses, or files like PDFs, music, or eBooks. So what are you waiting for? Head over to Squarespace.com/lore for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code lore to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Squarespace. Build something beautiful.

• 25:37Aaron Mahnke?

  Nights in the Appalachian Mountains is dark, oppressively so. When you're deep in the mountains, there are no glowing cities to light your way. There's only the occasional firefly, and every so often, a sliver of stars peeking through the canopy above. It's the last place that you'd want to run into something odd. Appalachia stretches all the way from Maine in the north to Georgia in the south. These rolling hills may not look as impressive as the towering cliffs of the Rockies or the gravity-defying peaks of the Himalayas. But don't let that small size fool you because the Appalachian Mountains are old, very, very old. Believe it or not, Appalachia is the oldest mountain range in the entire world. And not only the oldest mountain range, it's one of the oldest natural formations ever.

• 26:22Aaron Mahnke?

  The Appalachian Mountains are older than the Grand Canyon, older than Jupiter's rings, older than trees. Since the dawn of human history, people have made these mountains into a home. But just like any good home, it has its comforts, and it has its haunts. Appalachian locals have never needed outsiders to tell them that these mountains have their secrets. After all, when you live in a mountain that's older than the very dirt you're standing on, you get a sense for these things. But recently, Appalachia has become a fascination for the internet at large, and these creative netizens are inventing some new tales to explore. Tales like the not-deer. It didn't actually exist until a few years ago. But now, the not-deer is a full-blown cryptid.

• 27:06Aaron Mahnke?

  If you've spent any time online, you've probably heard of it. From far away, the creature looks just like a deer. Nothing to be afraid of. There are millions of them all over the world, as we've already discussed. But as this one gets closer, it starts to look a little off. And then you realize that it's not a deer at all. There is no actual explanation for what this not-deer is, simply that it's not a deer, and presumably, it's actually something much worse. The not-deer's limbs move jerkily, like a newborn fawn. This might have something to do with the fact that they're double-jointed. They're also barrel-chested, and their eyes are on the front of their skull rather than the sides, just like a predator. And apparently, the not-deer is a predator.

• 27:48Aaron Mahnke?

  They are much more aggressive than normal deer and have been known to chase people while standing upright on their hind legs. People who claim to have seen a not-deer have also said that there's an unsettling intelligence in their eyes, something beyond animal and bordering on human. Disturbing stories about these cryptids have exploded online. And while most are reported to be seen in the Appalachian Mountains, the not-deer have been seen as far afield as Texas, and in one case, even in Norway. Some have suggested that the not-deer were never monsters. Instead, they may have been real deer suffering from chronic wasting disease, or CWD. Also known as the zombie deer disease, CWD attacks the nervous system.

• 28:29Aaron Mahnke?

  Deer who contract the disease become emaciated, and their movements deteriorates and become jerky. They may stumble, walk in circles, or adopt an uncanny blank stare. But sighting a deer with such intense symptoms is rare. Predators normally take them down before the disease can progress that far. There are two other explanations, though. The first is that the not-deer is out there, wandering through the Appalachian Mountains. The other is that the not-deer is pure fiction, a story spread on the internet. But just because it originated on the web doesn't mean that it can't take root in the public imagination. After all, the not-deer clearly already has. And that, my friends, is all that matters.

• 29:26Aaron Mahnke?

  This episode of Lore Legends was produced by me, Aaron Manke, with writing by Alex Robinson and research by Cassandra DeAlba. Don't like hearing the ads? I've got a solution for you. There is a paid version of Lore on Apple Podcasts and Patreon that is 100% ad-free. Plus, subscribers there get weekly mini-episodes that we call Lore Bites. It's a bargain for all of that ad-free storytelling and a great way to support the show and the team behind it. For more information about those ad-free options, go over to lorepodcast.com/support. Lore is much more than just a podcast, though. There's the book series available in bookstores and online, and two seasons of the television show on Amazon Prime Video. Information about all of that and more is available over at lorepodcast.com.

• 30:08Aaron Mahnke?

  And you can also follow this show on Threads, Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. Just search for Lore Podcast, all one word, and click that follow button. And when you do, say hi. I like it when people say hi. And as always, thanks for listening.

• 30:35Speaker 03

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• 31:07Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 31:08Speaker 05

  My fresh detector.

• 31:09Speaker 04

  Uh, your what?

• 31:10Speaker 05

  There it is.

• 31:11Speaker 04

  What is it detecting?

• 31:13Speaker 05

  Fresh produce, fresh meat.

• 31:16Speaker 04

  Okay, what happens if it detects something really fresh?

• 31:21Speaker 05

  Apparently, we celebrate.

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