Denver’s Michael Porter Jr: NBA Champion talks overcoming injury, being available, playing with Jokic, and going against Embiid.

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find Super Bowl is coming and NBA is heating up! Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using http://dkng.co/defense or through my promo code Defense Winning a championship is a long road for any athlete but for Nuggets forward Michael Porter Jr, it’s been filled with a lot more bumps and stalled with some serious injuries. But through determination and commitment, MPJ has defied odds and became an intricate part of a championship team playing along side one of the best players in the world, Nikola Jokic. A high school basketball stand out ranked Number 1 in the nation with a direct path to the NBA as a potential number one pick was in question as back surgeries sidelined him and delivered a dark prognosis of not just delving draft stock but possibly never playing again. MPJ went through three back surgeries since then and some days doesn’t seem at his full potential, but the 1st round pick is no stranger to doubt, and his faith and confidence have kept him motivated since day one. When MPJ was told by a Clippers doctor pre-draft that his back injury was more severe than they first believed, the former National High School Player of the Year fell from the top of the board to No. 14 where the Nuggets scooped him up. He went on to become the first player from his draft class’ lottery to win a championship and has cemented himself as a max contract player in the league. Through his Christian faith and devout belief in himself, MPJ describes how the adversity he faced has helped shape the player and man he is today. New episodes of The Pivot drop on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m ET on YouTube, with audio available on all streaming platforms including Apple, Spotify and Amazon GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (AZ/CO/IA/IL/IN/KS/KY/LA/MD/ME/MI/NJ/OH/OR/PA/TN/VA/VT/WV/WY), (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). [3.5%/bold] Please Gamble Responsibly. Call 1-800-522-4700 (NH), 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.1800gambler.net (WV). 21+ (18+ KY/NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/KY/LA(select parishes)/MA/MD/ME/MI/NJ/NY/OH/PA/TN/VA/VT/WV/WY only. Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. $200 issued as bonus bets that expire 7 days (168 hours) after being awarded. Bonus bets must be wagered 1x and stake is not included in winnings. Ends 02/11/24 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. See terms at dkng.co/ftball. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:34Speaker 01

  Severe allergic reactions, including skin reactions, can occur. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing, or wheezing, or swelling of your face, mouth, tongue, or throat. Tell your doctor of newer worsening joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection, or asthma. Don't change or stop other treatments without talking to your doctor.

• 0:49Speaker 00

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• 1:00Ryan Clark?

  Wheezy really like my dog now. Wheezy really like my friend, Ric Flair. Ryan liked when we had Wheezy on. Ric Flair, Wheezy. Snoop's like, really my friend. I don't know if they're your friend. They're not my friends. FaceTimed on the first call.

• 1:15Channing Crowder?

  Did you get that? You got the ice cream?

• 1:18Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 1:19Fred Taylor?

  I saw that, R.C.

• 1:20Ryan Clark?

  First time. Dan couldn't even get Stephen A to answer.

• 1:23Channing Crowder?

  You got all the ice cream?

• 1:25Fred Taylor?

  You know what would have been dope? If Dan would have FaceTimed you.

• 1:29Ryan Clark?

  I'd have answered. Because he called people who didn't want to answer for him.

• 1:35Ryan Clark?

  Honestly, though, like truly, it would be, it would take a special relationship for me to answer like a blanket FaceTime. Like without letting me know.

• 1:46Channing Crowder?

  I gotta do that Friday. Friday? I'm gonna FaceTime people and tell crazy stories. That's one of my social media trends that I have to do Friday. So I had to be like...

• 1:58Ryan Clark?

  I'm for sure, I'm gonna hang up on you.

• 2:00Channing Crowder?

  And it'll be great.

• 2:01Fred Taylor?

  No, that ain't...

• 2:02Channing Crowder?

  I'm gonna call y'all too. I'm calling everybody I know that's famous.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  Text me before. So I can make sure I answer.

• 2:08Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 2:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, because I don't want you... Well, I mean, you can always just not show it if I don't answer.

• 2:12Channing Crowder?

  No, if you don't answer, it'll even be funnier.

• 2:14Ryan Clark?

  You just don't do it?

• 2:15Channing Crowder?

  That's why I told him, I'm like, if they don't answer, it's funnier. Because my, my whole country thing, like I don't FaceTime, I never FaceTime nobody.

• 2:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 2:23Channing Crowder?

  I don't, I think FaceTime is the most worthless app in the world. Like, why do I need to look at you to talk?

• 2:29Ryan Clark?

  I just, I think the, the newer age people, like younger people, grew up with FaceTime, and that's the only way they talk.

• 2:37Channing Crowder?

  But why do I need to, why do I need to look at you to talk to you?

• 2:40Fred Taylor?

  And drug dealers.

• 2:41Ryan Clark?

  I don't think you need to.

• 2:42Channing Crowder?

  Good, this gracious.

• 2:43Ryan Clark?

  I don't think you need to.

• 2:44Channing Crowder?

  Boy, this big.

• 2:46Fred Taylor?

  Yes, sir.

• 2:47Ryan Clark?

  Watch how low that seat finna be for him, no, like this.

• 2:49Channing Crowder?

  He gotta go way down there, and he gotta fall in, and he gonna fall in, that goddamn shit.

• 2:56Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, but why the do you have to FaceTime people? Like, why do you need to look at somebody to talk to?

• 3:00Ryan Clark?

  His generation grew up on FaceTime.

• 3:01Channing Crowder?

  Why do, bro, why do you need to look at somebody to talk to?

• 3:04Speaker 05

  That's a good question, cuz you FaceTime your, your bro, and your phone is gonna be right there, like, pointed at the ceiling, but it's FaceTime.

• 3:11Channing Crowder?

  But it's crazy, like, we, we don't need to, like, if we're talking, we're communicating, why do you need to look, like, why do you need a video to see somebody?

• 3:18Ryan Clark?

  Cuz they grew up with FaceTime, like, we grew up actually having to call, and I'd have to be like, "Hey, Mr. Porter, may I speak to Michael, please?" And they had to bring him the phone, cuz it's at the house, but for them, like, that's how they've communicated their whole lives.

• 3:31Channing Crowder?

  I, I, I got some questions, I'm curious, Mike. I got some questions.

• 3:36Speaker 05

  Y'all, y'all all live in Philly?

• 3:38Ryan Clark?

  None of us. I live in Louisiana.

• 3:40Speaker 05

  Oh, you, you live out there, so then y'all just link up when y'all do the.

• 3:43Ryan Clark?

  Well, yeah, so we link up to do this, they both live in Florida.

• 3:46Speaker 05

  Right.

• 3:46Ryan Clark?

  We were in Philly because we do, we do Inside the NFL in South Jersey.

• 3:52Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 3:53Ryan Clark?

  So it's like thirty minutes from where, where y'all played.

• 3:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, I ain't even, I ain't even, I was locked in.

• 3:58Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I'm not gonna be like, "Hey, Michael, man, can't wait to talk to you tomorrow. Go hit a three," you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not finna, so I just sat there, and you know, too, man, them seats, they tight.

• 4:08Channing Crowder?

  On the wood?

• 4:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I had to sit my feet close.

• 4:10Channing Crowder?

  Michael Irvin, Michael Irvin said, "If your feet ain't in the wood, it ain't no good."

• 4:13Ryan Clark?

  That's what Michael Irvin said, Michael, but playmaker different.

• 4:41Ryan Clark?

  Welcome, brother, to the Pivot, man.

• 4:42Speaker 05

  I appreciate y'all having me.

• 4:43Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, man. You know, it's hard for us to get people over six foot on our show. So we're excited about it. This is Chan, this is Freddie T. I'm RC, man. You know, NBA champion, I think that has to go without saying. So I just want to let you know, just on our show, like if you want to talk about championships, just direct all conversations this way. Right? So we got, you know, it's just with people. I just want you to be able to talk to people that can relate to winning a professional championship.

• 5:12Speaker 05

  Fellow champ.

• 5:13Ryan Clark?

  Like we have.

• 5:14Fred Taylor?

  Hold on, why you gonna toss that in there? I had a disclaimer.

• 5:17Ryan Clark?

  That's not say professional. College don't count.

• 5:20Speaker 05

  I won a championship.

• 5:22Ryan Clark?

  That don't count. I won, Pop won a championship too.

• 5:24Speaker 05

  You talking about professional championship?

• 5:25Ryan Clark?

  You know what I mean, dawg? Where they have parades and stuff.

• 5:28Speaker 06

  Red, red. God damn, life's getting weird, we gonna stay together?

• 5:34Speaker 05

  He's my fuck.

• 5:37Ryan Clark?

  You know, but I mean, it takes a lot too. I'm just joking, but it takes a lot to win a championship individually and as a team. And you have been through a ton, physically especially. I want you to take me back to, I think it was December 2021, your third back surgery. Right? Your mother is praying over you. What are your thoughts at that time, knowing you'd been through this twice already? You thought you'd sort of made it through since before your, you know, your rookie year? And now you were back in that same place?

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Man, I did, I was researching. Yeah, I didn't even know the date of that third surgery. That whole time, it's kind of like a blur just because, you know, you're going through the pain and then you're going through the surgeries. But, I mean, that last one was probably the toughest because the first one was my first injury ever. So I'm like, man, I'm gonna bounce back, I'm gonna be cool. You know? Second one was tough, but then the third one, like I think I had just signed my deal, my long-term deal with the Nuggets, right? And I've never been the type of dude to... Just wanna like sign a big deal and just get the money like I wanted to go prove like nah, I'm I'm worth this like I'm I'm glad the team invested this in me. So I had just signed a deal, right?

• 6:53Speaker 05

  Came off a really good, uh, a really good season and um, signed that deal and I'm hoping to like blow up this this next year. And yeah, I was gonna need that third surgery and it was uh, it was definitely heartbreaking um, because man, three surgeries, that's that's tough and the same area in your body like people don't really come back from that and I had faith, you know, that I could could work through, but at that point I was, I wasn't really sure like the two previous ones, I was like, man, I okay, I could work through this, I could still be a good player. That third one and just after signing that deal, it was just like, God works in mysterious ways, you know? That first surgery, I could kinda see the benefit because I got to fall to the fourteenth pick when I may have been a a higher pick

• 7:36Speaker 05

  and I got to end up falling to the Nuggets, which was a perfect fit for me, you know? Like you said, we ended up winning the championship, first player out of my class to do so.

• 7:44Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 05

  So I could kinda see the point in that, but man, I I after that third one, I was like, like, you know, like God, like why? Like, why does this keep happening to me? I'm putting in the work, I'm I'm doing my, I'm keeping up with my core routine, everything like why does this keep happening to me? Am I supposed to give basketball up? You know, I think talking, talking now like about my, about my journey inspiring people, man, I get so many just DMs and messages now about how much I inspire people and that really, I think is a, is what I look back on, I kinda see the blessing in it all now.

• 8:14Ryan Clark?

  I think people who, cause I've, he's had, he's had eighteen knee surgeries, Freddie T's have surgeries. Yeah, seventeen knee surgeries, twenty-five surgeries overall. Yeah, yeah, I've had.

• 8:23Speaker 05

  You know.

• 8:24Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I've had surgeries as well, you know, there's the injury, right? And then there's the surgery to repair it, but to me, the hardest part is always the rehab. Were there any times during that third rehab where it just got incredibly difficult to not only handle the physical toll, but the emotional and mental toll of trying to get back? To where you used to be.

• 8:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think especially just it it seemed like deja vu to me like, man, I've been through this journey. I gotta go through it again and it's like such a long journey. Man, the back is tricky because you know you got nerves involved and things like that, so. Certain muscles weren't working right. I had lost some of my explosiveness. I'm I'm waiting for that to come back, so. I really didn't know how it was gonna go and it took a lot of faith and it really just took a lot of hard work and um. Just willingness to to. Even put the work in, you know, I think a lot of guys when they go through that, they just. Kind of become content with being average, being an average player, you know. Um, people will understand that guy had three back surgeries, but for me it was like, no, I gotta. I'm never gonna give up, man. I could have five, six surgeries, you know, and.

• 9:35Speaker 05

  And this is what I love to do. This is how I get my happiness. This is the talent God gave me, so I'mma. I'mma keep it rolling until until I gotta hang it up. So that was kind of my mindset, but. To your point, I think. Early on after surgeries, you gotta get over that feeling bad for yourself at first. I felt bad for myself, like, man, like. Why me? You know, I'm walking around, everybody else is healthy. They're not working as hard as me. They're not. Going back to the weight room and doing their their core routine and things like that, so why me? But once you get past that, I think it's just like, okay. Stop feeling sorry for yourself. No matter how you feel, you gotta go get your work.

• 10:07Ryan Clark?

  Yep.

• 10:08Channing Crowder?

  And and bro, how how many times, because I I um heard the Clippers, the Clippers had to pick that year and.

• 10:13Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:14Channing Crowder?

  The doctor of the Clippers is the one that. Did your evaluation and sent the memo out. I wa- I watched some some pods that you do with. Curious Michael. And we were talking about it today, but like, bro, I had the same exact thing. I told my ACL four times in high school. So I had a time where a doctor told me and my mom were sitting there and told me. He'll never play football again. This is high school.

• 10:37Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 10:37Channing Crowder?

  And I played in the league and I I told my mom like. I don't want to go to him no more. He don't believe in what I was going, like, he doesn't believe in my vision. He doesn't believe in what I want to do. Like, how many doctors?

• 10:50Fred Taylor?

  At through your surgeries kind of discouraged you from your goal? And what's the feeling that these medical professionals are telling you? You might not play basketball?

• 10:59Speaker 05

  I think what they don't understand is, you know, the mental strength of somebody like you or somebody like me, they don't take that into account. Man, going going through high school, you know, when my when my first kind of back started aching, I'm getting x-rays, MRIs. And then through college, I had so many doctors say like, nah, you you you're not gonna be able to play again. Unless in high school before my first surgery, it was, if you don't do something about this issue that we found in your back, like, you're not gonna be able to play in the NBA. Once I got my surgeries, like to your point, around draft time, you know, the Clippers doctor, you know, he's he's telling teams to kind of stay away from me because I might I might not be able to play again. And this is, you know, a professional doctor. So that was happening all throughout this whole journey, I think.

• 11:43Speaker 05

  Now, sitting here and understanding the also the emotional wellness part of it. When doctors say those things to to people, it not only puts, you know, fear and doubt in your mind, but that can actually affect your body, like all that fear, all that trauma of doctors saying, you're not gonna be able to do something. That can further exacerbate the problem. I didn't know this until I started talking to, you know, some of these wellness doctors that that talk about the emotional piece and, you know, the repressed emotions. But when you got doctors telling you that type of stuff, it can be it can be tough to work through. But I just think they didn't take into account how much I love the game and how much work I'm willing to put in to keep playing. You know what I mean?

• 12:22Fred Taylor?

  So you're hearing from everybody, all the professionals. You know, you you you're talking to yourself within, you know, that voice within, I can do this. Can I still do this? All those different things, that's very frustrating. I I read where it says your mother prayed for you, she prayed over you, another one of your trainers, what have you. We all have faith, right? Faith in God, faith in ourselves. But nothing's like a mom's faith. Like, what what did she say to you? Or what message did she share with you? That sort of triggered you to say, you know what? I ain't quitting like my mom believes in me. I gotta make sure I do right by her.

• 12:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think for me, man, just especially in that third surgery. I didn't even need anybody to try to encourage me that I was gonna make it through this. I just wanted people to try to understand how much pain I was in physically, but also emotionally, how down I felt. Because I've always been a dude, you know, as an athlete, growing up, you receive love from the applause of people at times. You know, sometimes you can get your worth from that. So, growing up, that's how it was. At that time, I think I just needed my mom to tell me like, "I don't know why you're going through this, but even if it doesn't work out, even if you're not able to play the game anymore, like, I'll still love you the same. It don't change nothing about how I feel for you.

• 13:39Speaker 05

  You don't have to go earn your love out on the court from us. We love you the same." So, I think having people in your life to where no matter what you're going through, they got your back and they love you no matter what. I think that at that time, that's what I needed. But, you know, her praying over me and just encouraging me, that was everything. I mean, my family was there the whole time and that really was everything, for sure.

• 14:01Ryan Clark?

  He was the best Hooper in the house.

• 14:03Speaker 05

  Who the best Hooper?

• 14:04Ryan Clark?

  You said your mom went for 45 a game in high school now.

• 14:07Speaker 05

  We switched gears and she could relate to what I was going through because she actually had a similar surgery. But my mom was cold, like, she averaged like, I want to say like 50 points in high school. But they played in Iowa average. She was 6'4", so back then for a female, that's about 6'7", 6'8". They played 6-on-6 back then. So, it was like, I think like, 3 players stayed on offense, 3 played in defense, played on defense. Iowa was the last state to get rid of that. That's where she's from.

• 14:36Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 14:37Speaker 05

  And then she went to Iowa, still holds scoring records up there. She was playing professionally overseas when she started, you know, having kids. I think after she had, you know, her third kid, she decided to hang it up. But nah, she definitely was.

• 14:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 05

  She was like that, for sure.

• 14:51Channing Crowder?

  They call him Fragile Freddy. I know you hate that. Look at, he hates that.

• 14:56Speaker 05

  Fragile Freddy, why?

• 14:57Channing Crowder?

  I don't hate it. Because he got hurt a lot.

• 14:59Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 15:00Channing Crowder?

  So, it was like, it was a thing where he's very talented, like yourself. That's why I thought about it, just watching y'all talk. Where he was saying like, if he's on the court, you're on the court, he's on the field, he gonna ball out. What does that do to you where like, where teams question you? Because it's like, "Hey, nigga, we watch you." Like, if you ball, you can ball, you know what I'm saying? But we have to always question if you're gonna be available to play. So, to Fred and yourself, like, what does that do to you mentally where? The sport thinks you're you're good, but you're not always available.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think that could weigh on you. I mean, for me, somebody asked me like, what is my goals for this season and anything like that? What I'm most proud about so far this season is I haven't missed a game. I'm the only player on our team that hasn't missed a single game. So coming from three back surgeries, to me, that means more than an All-Star game or this or that to to be available and not miss a game, considering what I've been through. I think that's the that's a testament to like, not only the work I put in to take care of my body and be available for the games, but um, also just how far I come. Like availability is the best skill you can have. So when you hear that, that can be that can be tough when, you know, people be calling me all type of names um, about not being available or getting hurt. Um, I'm just trying to beat those kind of allegations just by staying healthy. You know what I mean? Staying on the floor.

• 16:21Channing Crowder?

  And one of the names is no swing.

• 16:24Speaker 05

  No swing. Yeah, they say I don't swing the rock.

• 16:25Channing Crowder?

  Goddamn black hole, nigga. You bout to shoot.

• 16:31Speaker 05

  He said it's a black hole. It's crazy because last night, there actually was a play. Um, I think they they posted it. It was like a a full court pass. It was a loose ball. I got it. I went to the corner. And Tobias Harris was kind of playing the cat and mouse game. Like, is he gonna come out and contest or is he gonna stay back by the rim? And I seen Joker and Aaron kind of running back, but I'm already missed shot. I could have like dumped it right down to him. I'm like, bro, I'm in the corner wide open. I'm letting this fly. I missed it though.

• 17:00Speaker 05

  But nah, bro, to your point, I mean, now when I catch the rock, like, I just feel like it's a good shot because I'm 6'10". I I jump on my jumper. So it feels like a good shot to me. Some, I mean, people gonna have something to say, but that's my job on the team. You know what I mean? I don't got the rock. I'm not the point guard to facilitate. I'm when I catch it, it's probably going up.

• 17:20Ryan Clark?

  You know, you mentioned the blessing in falling to 14, you know, because you are surrounded by, you know, All-Stars and future Hall of Famers in in Denver, but you were also a projected number one overall pick in high school, uh, number one player in the country. I have two questions about that night. The first question is wardrobe question, right? Like, I like suits. Do you ever look back at those pictures and think about that vest and that tie? And say to yourself, maybe I shouldn't have worn it?

• 17:49Speaker 05

  Talking about Jeff, nah, nah, I was smooth.

• 17:53Channing Crowder?

  No, no you were not.

• 17:55Speaker 05

  I wasn't smooth that night. Y'all gotta talk to my stylist then, because I think I got... I thought I was... The little baby, the little baby blue suit?

• 18:02Channing Crowder?

  What, the big bitch Carter pants?

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Who?

• 18:05Ryan Clark?

  No, he had... No.

• 18:06Speaker 05

  That wasn't me.

• 18:06Ryan Clark?

  That wasn't him.

• 18:07Channing Crowder?

  He was clean.

• 18:08Ryan Clark?

  He had the, he had the best joint on.

• 18:09Channing Crowder?

  He had the best, but he had the, it was, it was, it wasn't sweet.

• 18:13Speaker 05

  It wasn't? I think you might got the wrong person.

• 18:15Ryan Clark?

  Nah, I think...

• 18:15Speaker 05

  I know I was...

• 18:16Channing Crowder?

  Listen, I'll look it up. Where my iPhone?

• 18:18Ryan Clark?

  My, my, my real, my real question is though, you know, we all, like, our goals are normally set by our expectations.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:26Ryan Clark?

  And if our expectations are based in reality, then a lot of times, those things, we feel like we've earned or we deserve. You know, we've mentioned what the back surgeries and those sort of evals did to your draft stock. What was it sitting there that night? And, you know, we've seen now that, you know, there were big time players in that draft. Obviously, you know, All-Stars as well. But falling to 14 when you had such, you know, I guess, high hopes and expectations two years earlier.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, man, like, in high school, I just remember, like, getting ranked for the first time, he looking at my suit right now.

• 19:07Ryan Clark?

  Hey, talk to the championship side, dawg. Talk to the championship side.

• 19:11Speaker 05

  I remember getting ranked for the first time though, like, I think it was sophomore, freshman or sophomore, I was 25th in the country. Kept working, kept working, got better, better. Eventually, I'm the number one player in the country. And I felt like I was much better than everyone in my class. And so I kinda always envisioned, you know, going to college, killing it for one year, being the number one draft pick. I had people telling me in high school, like, if you could still go from high school to the league, you might, you might be able to go number one in the class above you. You know, the class with, uh, some of those players, you know, above me, Lonzo, Markel, Jason. They were telling me, like, I could've gone in that class. So, I had high expectations for myself.

• 19:51Speaker 05

  And then, you know, the injury kinda happened. And so, I had my first injury in college. But by the time the draft came around, I, I, I knew I needed a second surgery, but I hadn't got it yet because I was trying to tough it out. You know, I didn't want teams to know I needed a second surgery. So, sitting there, watching the draft happen, I'm in, I'm in a lot of pain. But man, seeing the names go by, dudes I know I'm better than, dudes I've been killing at all these different camps, all these different events, all of high school. And I'm seeing each of them go above me, like, that's hurting me to my core because I did not envision drafting to be like this. I envisioned going number one, great night, celebrating my family. And I'm just slipping, slipping, slipping. And I understood it because I didn't even know if I was right.

• 20:35Speaker 05

  I didn't even know at the time if I'd be able to hoop again because I was in so much pain. But got drafted by the Nuggets. And like I said, like God works in weird ways because looking back, I could see the blessing. But right then, I was just hot. Like even after I got drafted, you know, you put on a smile for the cameras, but deep down, I'm, I'm hot. Like, the Denver Nuggets was the last team I ever would have thought I would have gone to. You know what I mean? I probably hadn't watched a, a Denver game since like AI. Right. You know, so, uh, it was a tough night, but looking back, I guess you could see some of the, some of the good that came out of it. Look at dude, let me see.

• 21:09Channing Crowder?

  Bruh, that was sweet.

• 21:10Speaker 05

  That's fresh to me.

• 21:12Channing Crowder?

  Bro, with the low, with the low vest.

• 21:14Speaker 05

  That was smooth back then though.

• 21:16Channing Crowder?

  The back then, like, you just look, bruh, I, I can pull them up now, nigga.

• 21:20Speaker 05

  Six years ago, that was smooth.

• 21:25Speaker 05

  But, but what's up?

• 21:26Channing Crowder?

  With the dark blue low cut.

• 21:28Speaker 05

  Man, I don't know, I gotta get a bit of luck. Y'all must be right, y'all must be right.

• 21:32Ryan Clark?

  You know, when I saw it, I was like, ooh, but you're right. We had, that's revisionist history. At that time, it probably was smooth, you know? And being one, like he was knife pick overall in the draft. Uh, you know, number one running back in the country. Back, but like when, they used to rank him in like chickens when he came out. Like in the sixties when it was him, you know, Walter Payton, some of those guys who were his peers.

• 21:56Fred Taylor?

  That joke is old, bruh. Larry Zonka. That joke is old, bruh. That joke's old, bruh.

• 22:01Ryan Clark?

  Hey, but for, for you though, like that wasn't kinda like your first time having to make a switch. You know, your pops was working at Washington. You'd committed to Washington, you getting shots up. And the staff comes down in tears because they've been fired.

• 22:17Ryan Clark?

  As a teenager, kind of sort of having your plan, I'm sure your plan was, I'm gonna go play for Coach Lorenzo Romar at U-Dub, I'm gonna play one year, I'm one and done, I'm the first overall pick.

• 22:28Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was a goal. And I just seen Markel Foles do it too, the year before.

• 22:31Ryan Clark?

  Right, so you just sitting there getting up shots, and now that coaching staff comes down and says that they're fired. What was that moment like for you?

• 22:40Speaker 05

  Yeah, I remember that vividly because I was super excited. You know, my brother who's a year younger than me, he classed up to play with me at the University of Washington. Lorenzo was my godfather, Coach Romar, so we had a, I think we had the number one recruiting class. But Coach Romar wasn't able to win with, you know, Markel and some of the, Matisse Thybulé, a couple of other guys the year before, so, yeah, they came down, I'm just getting shots up, and it's my dad's first year coaching there, so we had just moved from Missouri where I grew up to Seattle, you know, my dad's coaching under Lorenzo, we thinking we gonna go there, and they come down and yeah, they say, uh, the whole staff was fired. It was wild, like,

• 23:25Speaker 05

  yeah, they, just because we saw the vision, like, we knew we were gonna be nice the following year. Markel was talking about maybe staying, he probably wouldn't have, but, uh, still would have had Matisse Thybulé, would have had me, my brother, Jalen Noel, who's an NBA player. So we were, we were gonna be really good, and yeah, they came down there and said that, so what ended up happening was my dad ended up getting the job in Missouri, and I end up just going to play over there with, with him, but, yeah, Washington would have been live, like...

• 23:57Ryan Clark?

  Your sisters were already there, though, at Missouri, right?

• 24:00Speaker 05

  At Missouri, yeah.

• 24:01Ryan Clark?

  So, y'all kind of had to be like the first family of Missouri by that point?

• 24:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, we, we had, both of my sisters were, were at school already, and then, you know, once we had to decommit from Washington, we decided to go to Missouri and go back home, and that was, that was dope in and of itself. Yeah, it was four of us in college hooping at one time, I don't know, I don't know if that's happened before, four siblings playing at one time.

• 24:24Channing Crowder?

  You been thinking about that, though, bro, like, you're talking about Washington would have been sweet. Wherever you were was gonna be sweet.

• 24:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, they sold out, see, like, as soon as I committed, like, sold out tickets, season tickets like that, like, it was crazy.

• 24:36Channing Crowder?

  That's what it is, like, even nowadays where kids go and they jump around schools, like, players make the team. So your sisters and yourself, they made, you made Missouri, like, you would've made Washington, you would've made wherever the hell you were. You're 6'10", they can hit threes, bro.

• 24:50Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 24:52Fred Taylor?

  But even with that, you spoke about expectations, but what's the mindset like of being a number one ranked overall prospect coming out of high school? Like, what pressures are associated with that?

• 25:03Speaker 05

  Bro, like, before my entry, basketball came so easy to me that it wasn't even no pressure. I just knew I was the coldest by far, like, I can, I still shoot and I still can do some things on the court. And I'm getting better and kind of getting back to myself a little bit. But back then, I, I had a strap, I was getting downhill, jumping from wherever and dunking it. So I was just having fun with the game, it was free and it was like joyful, um, and it was easy for me. So like nowadays, it'd be, it's kind of hard sometimes, I reminisce on those days, sometimes think like, man, all my best days behind me. I know that's not true, but going from the number one player in the country where everything just came so easy to me, to having to work through these rehabs just to get back on track and, and, and try to be a good player in this league,

• 25:48Speaker 05

  um, it's hard because it just came so easy to me back then.

• 25:50Fred Taylor?

  When, when did you max out at your height, at 6'10"?

• 25:54Speaker 05

  I think my junior year of high school, um, playing in Missouri, I, I, uh, yeah, I was like 6'9 and a half. I think I grew like another half inch.

• 26:03Fred Taylor?

  And freshman year, where'd you enter high school at?

• 26:06Speaker 05

  I think I entered high school around 6'5".

• 26:09Fred Taylor?

  Oh, still big.

• 26:11Channing Crowder?

  Nah, he's been tall.

• 26:12Fred Taylor?

  Still big.

• 26:13Channing Crowder?

  His people 6'4" piece.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  Right, right. Yeah, my mom's 6'4", that's probably where I get it from, my mom, yeah. Both my sisters, uh, my sisters, 6'3", 6'2".

• 26:22Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, see, like, I don't know nothing about that.

• 26:24Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, it's crazy.

• 26:25Channing Crowder?

  I'm scraping, I'm fighting for 5'11".

• 26:27Fred Taylor?

  A lot of bitty baby. But a lot of times, those guys, they, they, they get that big too fast and their feet don't follow. A lot of guys can be clumsy and big, but he's extremely athletic.

• 26:37Speaker 05

  Or like, yeah, I had a, I had a, uh... A teammate, in the fifth grade, he was a grown man. Like, I, I, I was born in Indiana. I moved to Missouri in like, sixth grade, but in fifth grade, this dude was a grown man, number one player in the country. He was a center on our team. He, he played center, but he didn't grow, so then he went to power forward, then he went to small. He's a point guard now, because he never grew, like, he was, you know them dudes, the muscle dudes, they're like, fifth grade. So I was kinda glad I was a late bloomer. I kept growing all the way through high school.

• 27:05Ryan Clark?

  You, um, you mentioned going from Indy to Missouri. You were homeschooled. I always find homeschooling fascinating. Because I always think about the things I learned, both good and bad, that you gotta navigate being in school and having to be around those people. Uh, was there any adjustment entering high school? Or did you always kinda have basketball and use that as an ability to socialize?

• 27:31Speaker 05

  Yeah, you know, people always talk about homeschoolers being a little weird or whatever. I think, you know, the social aspect is a part of that. For me, like, we got that through basketball. All our friends, you know, we hooped on different teams, travel teams, so we got to socialize. Another thing my parents did was, I think probably when I was in sixth or seventh grade, they, my dad's from Mississippi, so, you know, they call them snowballs down there, but snow cones. You know, they, they bought a snow cone stand and had us working it, you know, and meeting people and serving people. We were young, so we would make a little bit of money and we was serving people snow cones. So we got to socialize that way, but I finally went to school in eighth grade, public school, and the first thing I noticed was I was way smarter than everyone.

• 28:13Speaker 05

  Like, at homeschool, you only had to do school for two hours a day, because you just, if you understood the topic or whatever, you could just knock it out.

• 28:21Speaker 05

  So we were doing school two hours a day, we'd get in the gym the rest of the day. When I went to public school, I was sitting in there eight hours, but I already was way ahead of all the other kids. But man, they were doing stuff and talking about stuff and, and into stuff in, in eighth grade that I, that I really wasn't even like, aware that my kids, my age, was really on at that point. So that was an adjustment in terms of that. Um, but overall, I think it was a blessing, um, being homeschooled. I know I'm gonna homeschool my kids one day, I think. You know, they teaching kids wild stuff in school these days, so I'm definitely gonna homeschool my kids.

• 28:51Ryan Clark?

  Did it hurt your game? Like, well, because you don't talk no women. Yeah, like, you can't, you can't, you can't learn no game if you ain't talking around girls.

• 29:03Channing Crowder?

  But the awkwardness now, it gotta be awkward. You send it home, your parents are teaching, then you go back into the world.

• 29:11Speaker 05

  I still have some little shorties running around my neighborhood that I want to go talk to.

• 29:14Channing Crowder?

  So you were still shooting, because we light-skinned.

• 29:17Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 29:18Ryan Clark?

  Thinking of that, though, you, in high school, you talked about being light-skinned. You're biracial.

• 29:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 29:24Ryan Clark?

  And so is Chan, as well.

• 29:26Speaker 05

  You mix black and white?

• 29:28Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, my momma white, daddy black.

• 29:29Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. And you mentioned about, and I don't think people understand colorism as much. Like, you know, we talk a lot about racism, but within our own communities, like, people don't really have to voice colorism because it's in our own community. But you mentioned about being light-skinned and having to fight the soft label because of...

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• 30:49Ryan Clark?

  For that.

• 30:50Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 30:50Ryan Clark?

  You know, how real of a thing was that?

• 30:53Speaker 05

  Y'all, y'all, y'all being jealous of us. They be jealous. You know what I'm saying?

• 30:58Channing Crowder?

  Come here, brother.

• 30:58Speaker 05

  Hey, you know you got in trouble. You know you got your ass in trouble.

• 31:02Channing Crowder?

  Who was that?

• 31:03Ryan Clark?

  Mike, I'll be, hey, listen.

• 31:04Channing Crowder?

  No, let me slide back, because y'all jealous.

• 31:06Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this.

• 31:07Channing Crowder?

  Y'all jealous, Wesley Snipes is not here anymore. They was riding with Wesley Snipes for years, wasn't they?

• 31:13Speaker 05

  Y'all, they jealous, man.

• 31:14Channing Crowder?

  They love Wesley Snipes.

• 31:14Ryan Clark?

  You had to run through, you had to run through eight light-skinned people to try to find one that actually had attractive physical traits today, when you were talking about light-skinned people in the car.

• 31:25Speaker 05

  Don't talk about, like, light-skinned dudes or light-skinned females?

• 31:27Ryan Clark?

  He was talking about light-skinned dudes, because he was trying to say that you and him...

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Some good looking light skinned dudes?

• 31:33Channing Crowder?

  You're a very good light skinned dude. Who represents us? Is it Drake? Who represents us? Is it Obama?

• 31:41Speaker 05

  It can't be Drake no more. He got the like the little clips in his hair, painted his...

• 31:44Channing Crowder?

  He done got, he done got a little weird with the money. Is it Obama? Obama can still represent us, bro.

• 31:50Speaker 05

  I don't think he represents these things.

• 31:52Channing Crowder?

  What about Steph Curry?

• 31:54Speaker 05

  He's definitely a good representation.

• 31:55Channing Crowder?

  Steph got us?

• 31:56Speaker 05

  He, he, he, there's a few that carry us.

• 32:00Channing Crowder?

  Patrick Mahomes?

• 32:01Speaker 05

  Nah, he don't carry us.

• 32:02Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 32:03Speaker 05

  Cause his brother.

• 32:05Channing Crowder?

  Bro, his brother weird. There's some weird shit going on there, ain't it? Like, yeah.

• 32:09Ryan Clark?

  He's also not that handsome.

• 32:11Channing Crowder?

  Who? Patrick Mahomes ain't handsome? Like, he got the weird mohawk.

• 32:14Ryan Clark?

  Y'all, y'all done went to this... Y'all done got on this just because it's light skinned, it works thing. Like, y'all gotta stop that.

• 32:19Fred Taylor?

  But Channing knows better. That's the shit that happened in the Jonathan Owens episode.

• 32:23Speaker 05

  What's the top five light skins?

• 32:27Channing Crowder?

  Shit, I'm there.

• 32:29Speaker 05

  I'm, I'm up there too. I think Steph.

• 32:32Channing Crowder?

  See, but that's the light skin issue. No, hey, hey, hey.

• 32:34Ryan Clark?

  This is such a sus conversation.

• 32:36Channing Crowder?

  Do y'all hit y'allself.

• 32:38Ryan Clark?

  Why did you put on a... I'm trying to ask a man about...

• 32:40Channing Crowder?

  Hey, you dark motherfuckers, we talking right now.

• 32:42Speaker 05

  This is a crazy topic.

• 32:45Ryan Clark?

  Okay, go ahead, Channing.

• 32:46Channing Crowder?

  So who's the top, who's the top five? Who, who got, who got us light skinned?

• 32:49Speaker 05

  Just carrying the, the light skinned culture. Uh, I think the, the dudes that's carrying the light skinned culture. I mean, you still gotta put Drake in there. I think in the league is Steph, Jason, D-Book, me.

• 33:00Channing Crowder?

  D-Book, but he got the high top though, I don't...

• 33:02Speaker 05

  He got the, he got the high top.

• 33:04Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 33:05Ryan Clark?

  Are y'all serious right now?

• 33:06Channing Crowder?

  Hey.

• 33:07Speaker 05

  It's a lot, hey, see, they, they just, they not even...

• 33:09Ryan Clark?

  They don't even, they don't even understand.

• 33:10Speaker 05

  But what was your question?

• 33:11Ryan Clark?

  Last week we posted Dez Bryant crying, reading something that he has to use daily to raise his children, and y'all two are ranking top five light skins.

• 33:24Speaker 05

  Hey, he started, he started the conversation.

• 33:25Channing Crowder?

  We've taken over the world.

• 33:27Ryan Clark?

  But I was asking.

• 33:29Speaker 05

  How do you fight the stigma?

• 33:30Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, cause there is a, there is a stereotype of that. And it's not... It's not everybody, it's us. You know what I mean? Like, you made the joke about us being jealous, we darker people, but there is that stereotype within, whether it's quote-unquote, which is obviously not true, the good hair, the light skin, those sorts of things.

• 33:51Speaker 05

  I don't know, I think it comes from the fact that we know we're handsome. So, people catch us looking in the mirror a little bit longer. They might catch us taking a little bit more pictures. So, they're like, "Oh, he kinda, he kinda little soft." But it's just really that we look good, you know what I mean? That's really what it is, for real.

• 34:07Ryan Clark?

  Mike, do you, do you like, hold your mouth halfway open for your pictures and stuff?

• 34:11Speaker 05

  Nah, nah, me.

• 34:12Ryan Clark?

  You, you don't do that?

• 34:13Speaker 05

  Nah, I just smile.

• 34:14Ryan Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 34:15Speaker 05

  We ain't, we ain't gotta do all that. Nah, we ain't gotta do all that.

• 34:17Ryan Clark?

  When you, when you think about, like, but honestly, in that, it leads me to this. You are Christian.

• 34:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 34:24Ryan Clark?

  Right? And you're a devout Christian. You're a Christian that lives out loud, which is what the Bible tells us to do. Right? The Bible tells us to go forth and make disciples. You can't do that unless you are honest about your faith. And you've used that in all sorts of ways, and understanding that God came for all people. God ate with the tax collectors and the sinners. You, in 2020, during the George Floyd, you know, you caught Flack for saying that we should also pray for the police officers involved. When you are living out loud with your faith and working to bring people together in the way that you are,

• 35:07Ryan Clark?

  how difficult is it to deal with a situation like that? Because many people in society don't understand that perspective. The perspective of, it's not about what you do, it's about who you are in God's eyes. Was that tough for you during that time?

• 35:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a, it's a balance, because you don't ever wanna come off, you know, when you're a Christian, you still wanna come, I've always tried to be authentic, but at the same time... If you really are living an authentic Christian life, like, you're gonna hurt some people's feelings, or it's gonna be super counter-cultural in some ways. Like, Jesus came here, he didn't come here to be liked. He didn't come here for none of that. Like, he came here to speak the truth. So for me, in that situation, as sensitive of a topic as it was, you know, I voiced my opinion. And that whole, those tweets got taken super out of context because the first two tweets was like, man, this is straight up like murder. Like, this is bringing tears to my eyes. Then I had to think about it because I was so mad.

• 36:08Speaker 05

  Like, you know, sometimes you be so mad, you don't want nothing to do with white people sometimes. Like, you go to the barber shop and, man, a lot of these, they don't even want white people around. Like, they have a lot of hatred towards white people. So I was, when I seen the police officer doing that to George Floyd, those were my first thoughts, was like, those thoughts. Then I was like, man. So my third tweet was, pray for the police officers that God would change their heart because people just hating white people. That's not gonna change nothing. The same cycle is gonna keep happening. So that was my point. It wasn't like, oh, they get off easy. Pray for these cops that God forgives them. No, it wasn't none of that. It was like, pray that God, only God could change the hate

• 36:53Speaker 05

  in that white person's heart to do that to a black person. Like, he would have never did that to another white person. You know what I mean? So that was more the message I was trying to get across. But at the end of the day, like, when you're trying to speak God's truth or whatever, no matter what you say, man, like, it could be surrounding any topic that's going on these days that they're trying to push. It's gonna sound counter-cultural. So you gotta get over the trying to keep a perfect image or not being canceled. I got over that a while ago. You know what I mean? You can't be an outspoken person for your faith or your beliefs if you're worried about making everybody happy. It's not for them.

• 37:27Fred Taylor?

  You have strong ties to women hoops. We mentioned it earlier.

• 37:31Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 37:32Fred Taylor?

  You just recently resigned or signed a new deal with Puma. Right, I saw you rocking the Stewie 2's, Breonna Stewart, her kicks. Have you been outspoken about the pay, the wages in the WNBA for those ladies?

• 37:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, they did an interview with me. I mean, I see it from both sides. I know these females want to get paid more.

• 37:55Speaker 05

  And they're very talented, but so is, so is a famous ping pong player. They're just as talented as a, like the best ping pong player is just as talented as the best basketball player. That doesn't mean they're gonna get paid the same, cuz it's.

• 38:08Ryan Clark?

  Cuz they play ping pong.

• 38:09Speaker 05

  It's what the people wanna watch, you know what I mean? So, as much as I understand females wanting the same treatment as, as men, basketball players is, is, it's a different sport. People, they're not packing out the arenas, obviously their TV deals aren't the same. So as much as I advocate for women and kinda the equality of the respect of their craft and all those things, I mean, you can't pay them the same thing, you know? But I do feel like they should, there, there should be a little way to make a little bit more money for them. Cuz they are very talented.

• 38:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think the, I think the big thing, um, obviously when you're thinking about negotiations, labor unions and different things like that, I don't believe there's any woman that believes she should be paid as a man gets paid. It's more about the revenue share, it's more about the percentage. And I think those things play into it, and then the other side of it is treatment. You know, within their own organizations, like they're never, like, they don't.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  Right, it's not as exciting.

• 39:10Ryan Clark?

  No, it's, it's not as exciting.

• 39:12Speaker 05

  It's not as exciting basketball.

• 39:13Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, you're not.

• 39:13Speaker 05

  They gotta lower the rims. I would watch a girl coming down the lane, huh, on another, I would watch that, they need to lower the rims.

• 39:19Ryan Clark?

  They're actually, as a, as a whole, women, women work the fundamentals more than most men do, because y'all can do that.

• 39:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:30Ryan Clark?

  Like, and that's, and that's why the.

• 39:31Speaker 05

  They play good basketball.

• 39:32Ryan Clark?

  Right, and that's why, like, the guys who are extremely skilled excel, because it's like, okay, you have all of this talent as well, but you can finish at the rim in different ways. You can handle the rock in different ways, you have floor vision. But women, like, that's the way they get on the court. And so I think those things are different, but I agree with you. They're not gonna be paid the same, but it's, it was more about the treatment, percentage, and having an opportunity for revenue.

• 39:58Channing Crowder?

  I, I was actually gonna say about the, um, the, the sixty-five game rule, that's what I was gonna get to. I wanna say you or how do the players think about that, where you can't be. And what is it, all NBA?

• 40:12Speaker 05

  If you don't play 65 games.

• 40:13Channing Crowder?

  You gotta play 65 games. And now, Alvin Silver came into it, and I know your injury history. And that's what I wanted to get to with that. How does NBA players feel about that? The low management thing, where you're not a low management guy. But you have had injuries. And just that whole thing where now the NBA is saying that you can't win this many awards, or you can't be blessed with this much stuff if you don't play 65 games or more.

• 40:39Speaker 05

  Honestly, I'm not too opposed to it. I think it's, it's because it was getting to a point where dudes was just resting. So I'm not mad about it. I think dude, like, at the end of the day, it's our job. So we play, we get paid very well to be available. You know, if you have an injury, that's one thing, okay? So sit out those couple of months and then, and then I don't think you should be recognized for those awards because you didn't play the whole season like some other guys did. Like I said, availability is one of the biggest skills you can have. So that should be recognized more in some of these awards. So I never really even understood the whole rule because my goal is just to play every game. So I know for some guys, they weren't feeling it, but I didn't really get too much into it, to be honest.

• 41:23Ryan Clark?

  You know, and talking about playing every game, seasons can get long. Your season last year was as long as it could possibly be. Maybe if they're Miami, he could have pushed it two more games.

• 41:35Speaker 05

  You won the Heat to win?

• 41:37Channing Crowder?

  Did you hear, I'm in Miami, bro. Did you hear what he said about the Miami? I listened, bro. He was like, once we got, we knew we was gonna win the series because we ain't know how they beat Boston. You ain't hear what he said?

• 41:52Channing Crowder?

  Bro, I watched, what is it with Trey, what's it called? On the, uh...

• 41:55Speaker 05

  On the point?

• 41:56Channing Crowder?

  On the point, he was like, yeah, once we got to the Heat, we knew we was gonna ride. I'm like, damn. Like, I was, I, I, bro, I sat there game five. I paid $7,000 a ticket for me and my wife to be on row five.

• 42:09Speaker 05

  Game five in Denver?

• 42:10Channing Crowder?

  Who's that? No, no, game four.

• 42:12Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 42:13Channing Crowder?

  And I just sat and watched y'all run up and down and that big old white boy just throw that little Uglaz, that little Uglaz hook.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  That's kind of why we knew because in the NBA in general, but especially in the playoffs, it's about matchups. And we just felt like we matched up really good with Miami. The last few years, they'd had a hard time with us because they played Bam at the center, but he's kind of an undersized center. And you gotta, you gotta be pretty like heavy and pretty like just big in general to do anything with Joker in the post. So we knew they were gonna have to bring a double. And then, you know, that's when everybody starts seeing AG gets the lobs, I'm getting the backside threes. We didn't, we didn't think they matched up with us very well.

• 42:53Fred Taylor?

  But can I, can I get your number? So if you're gonna just hit backside threes and AG get the lobs, I won't spend $7,000 ticket next year?

• 43:00Speaker 05

  It was still good games though. It was competitive though.

• 43:03Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned, you mentioned Nikola, like just one of the most skilled players we've ever seen at that position.

• 43:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 43:09Ryan Clark?

  With all the things that he can do, you know? If he didn't care so much about just going by horses and stuff, he probably just averaged a triple double. Like he's a great team player, extremely skilled. We got a chance to see you guys play against Joel Embiid this week as well. When you look at those two players and to me being the best two in the league, how do you think they compare? You know, I'm sure you feel your guy is the best one, but what Joel can do at that size too is amazing.

• 43:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's definitely the best two centers of our generation going head to head, but really top four or five centers ever, honestly. I think the only thing that separates them right now is Nikola's won a championship. They have completely different styles of, of, of playing though. You know Joker's very pass first, more of a facilitator. Joel will go out there and give you 40 every single night. And he's just, I don't realize how good of a, you know, mid-range shooter he is. At that size, 7'2" or 7'3", like get into mid-range, hesi pulls and his jumper's like so like soft, you know, soft touch. So offensively, he's just a dominant force.

• 44:23Speaker 05

  But you know, I'm a ride with Nikola, you know, you know, we won a championship last year. He can, he can have some nights where he gives you 50, another night where he gives you 20 assists, another night 20 rebounds. So he can do everything. Joel definitely takes that matchup personally though, for sure.

• 44:39Fred Taylor?

  And you said Joker can do everything.

• 44:41Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:41Fred Taylor?

  Is there anything that he does that just surprises you? See for me, just watching the game as a, you know, just sitting at home, watching it? I'm like, how does this guy, how's he so good? He looks so, he looks lazy.

• 44:55Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 44:56Fred Taylor?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 44:56Speaker 05

  He doesn't look athletic.

• 44:57Fred Taylor?

  He wobbling around? Yeah, like, how, does anything ever surprise you with him?

• 45:02Speaker 05

  Um, I mean, it does. But when you see like, uh, when you see it so much, I guess you kind of get used to it. I don't know if it's like an overseas type of thing. They, um, they play a little bit different. Like Luca, Luca sometimes looks like that, like he's just kind of going slow. Then boom, hits you with a step back catch. Like, they're just nice over there. I think they just, uh, the development over there is a little different. You know, over here, we got all these mixtapes and cameras. So guys is trying to do all the dunks and get real athletic and fancy. Over there, sometimes they rely more on touch.

• 45:38Fred Taylor?

  They fundamentals.

• 45:39Speaker 05

  Fundamentals, passing, playing the game a different way. So when they come over here, it just looks so different.

• 45:46Ryan Clark?

  Well, fellas, it's that time, man. It's time for the big game. Oh. SB 58. Our partners at DraftKings want to give you an even bigger opportunity. Any new customer using the promo code DEFENSE. You place a $5 bet on anything. Yeah, that's right, anything. You instantly get $200 in bonus bets.

• 46:04Channing Crowder?

  Hit them with the same game parlay on the biggest game. The over, the under, the side, whatever you want to do. An even bigger payout, baby.

• 46:13Fred Taylor?

  I like the coin toss. Can I say the coin toss? I'm gonna pick what the coin toss do. No, all you gotta do is download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. Get into the game. And the big game still has big, big, big daily fantasy. Go make it happen.

• 46:28Ryan Clark?

  Hey, he said get into the game. Neither of them ever got there, but I did twice. So if you use the promo code DEFENSE, place a $5 bet on anything, that's instantly $200 in bonus bets. Meet me where only I've been. You gonna do that right now?

• 46:42Fred Taylor?

  That wasn't in the, that was in the script.

• 46:44Ryan Clark?

  That was not what we're supposed to talk about? Oh. You mentioned, you know, Nikola, he's the MVP. He was the finals MVP as well, but you work your way all the way back. You are a max contract player and you get in the finals and your shot isn't falling.

• 47:04Ryan Clark?

  I can't shoot, no way, but for somebody who, like you said, though, like, there's a lot about basketball that came naturally. And even through your rehabs and your surgeries, the jumper was always nice. And you're on the biggest stage and, you know, you're in a champ, you played in a professional championship. I played in the Super Bowl, so we can talk about things like this. Some people have never gotten there, so they don't really.

• 47:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, y'all wouldn't understand those pressures.

• 47:28Ryan Clark?

  They understand the pressure of those type of situations.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  Red, red.

• 47:32Fred Taylor?

  I'm leaving.

• 47:32Speaker 05

  Yellow.

• 47:36Ryan Clark?

  But when, but honestly, though, when you're, when you're in the biggest series of your life, something you've worked back from three surgeries to get to, and the thing you do well isn't working, what's that feeling for you?

• 47:51Speaker 05

  All you want to do is win, so if my jumper wasn't fine, I was still trying to get 10 rebounds. I was still trying to play defense.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  Nobody, nobody cares about the percentage at that point. Like, of course, you, you, like, I wish my jumper was just cash all series. I've been hitting throughout the whole playoffs. In the finals, my jumper struggled a little bit, but I was trying to do other things to help our team win, because at that point, all you want is a ring. So you don't care about stats, you don't care about percentage. So I wasn't really tripping too much, especially because if I felt like I was the reason that we were like, maybe losing some games, or we end up losing the finals and I was like, man, I could have produced more offensively. I was, you know, struggling all series, it would have been one thing, but I was still impacting the game. We ended up winning, so I wasn't, I wasn't tripping too much.

• 48:36Ryan Clark?

  Why y'all stunt so hard at the parade, man? Like, after the game, bruh, bruh, coach loose? Y'all going hard at LeBron?

• 48:45Speaker 05

  They said it was like 2 million people downtown there. It was, it was crazy down there, but I don't know, man, and that's not, that, that ain't never been like, us as a team in Denver, we've always been under the radar. Dudes not really too outspoken, dudes not really be on social media too much. I think dudes was just loose. And then, yeah, it was crazy, I don't know, it was, it was crazy. We definitely was teed up at the parade, man, that whole, that whole celebration. I don't know what y'all did. We, uh, the celebration was weird, though, because.

• 49:17Speaker 05

  After you win, you got the celebration in the locker room. Right. We was in there for hours. Then, we go to Aaron Gordon's. He bought like a warehouse that he turned into like a lounge slash club, so we was there. But then the next two days, we didn't have anything. So, we're just at the crib like, like, can't believe we won a championship. We don't have anything as a team, because the parade was like a couple of days later. So, we're just, it was weird timing. Then after the parade, we went to Vegas. Turned up in Vegas for one night. Everybody missed the flight back home. It was just a whole, it was a whole week of just, it was hectic, but it was fun though. It's awesome, man.

• 49:49Channing Crowder?

  I want to talk more about this partying too, but they gonna, they gonna cut me off, because I didn't know what y'all did in Vegas and why y'all was sitting around like, yeah. Denver.

• 49:57Speaker 05

  Right.

• 49:58Channing Crowder?

  I can give you space in Denver, you know, I can give you some spots.

• 50:00Speaker 05

  You got some spots out there?

• 50:02Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, some spots out there.

• 50:03Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's a few for sure.

• 50:05Channing Crowder?

  I was gonna say, I didn't know if you wanted to say the name, but. No, bro. I want to ask you something that Ryan said about like, uh, your size. Bro, you big as fuck.

• 50:15Speaker 05

  Yeah, pause.

• 50:17Channing Crowder?

  Big one, pause. Yeah, ay. You think I'm talking about this man, Swype? This nigga is fat.

• 50:26Channing Crowder?

  You six, what are you, 16?

• 50:27Speaker 05

  But what's that, yeah, 16.

• 50:29Channing Crowder?

  You will never get down low.

• 50:33Channing Crowder?

  You will never fight.

• 50:36Speaker 05

  You mean like, like, uh?

• 50:37Channing Crowder?

  Like in the paint, y'all niggas. Y'all motherfuckers is nasty. What are y'all talking about? I was speaking of basketball.

• 50:46Speaker 05

  You mean like I don't post up like that?

• 50:48Channing Crowder?

  But you know, yeah, you so big, like you gotta.

• 50:50Speaker 05

  Yeah, I'll go get, I'll go get 10 rebounds in a game.

• 50:52Channing Crowder?

  And you can get the rebounds, but like, do you?

• 50:54Speaker 05

  Offensively, you mean like post up, like?

• 50:56Channing Crowder?

  Just, yeah, just, almost seven feet. You will never go, like, to go and wrestle with Embiid down there. You, you don't want to go down there and wrestle?

• 51:04Speaker 05

  Well, honestly, like, so like I said, I've kind of had to modify kind of how I play through the surgeries, um.

• 51:12Speaker 05

  Like, and then we have specific roles in NBA. You got, you know, the point guard, the shooting guard. As a three, I'm always on the, uh, in the corners usually. So I'm the one catching, shooting. AG is kind of in the dunker spot. And then Joker's, you know, in the post, whatever. So for spacing purposes, like you never really catch me posting up. I'm more out there for spacing because I know my guy's not really going to leave me. He don't want me to get shots off, so that opens the court up for everybody else. But like in transition, there are some times where I'll, uh, catch a post, I so. But for the most part, I'm spaced out, ready to catch and shoot, ready to catch and drive. And it's kind of in the dunker so that when his guy rotates, um, to Joker, he's getting lobbed.

• 51:54Speaker 05

  So it's just, it's just the spacing of our team and how we, we found it to, to work best. But you know, and pickup games in the summer, when you can work on your game and that, that all changes. Like in a pickup game, I'm, I'm posting dudes up, getting to the, the rim, all that.

• 52:07Channing Crowder?

  But like, but even like you said, like God works in mysterious ways. Like for you to go to Denver and to be in the place you are, where you might be on another team, where they would make you go down there.

• 52:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 52:16Channing Crowder?

  Like, is that, are you in the perfect position to thrive?

• 52:20Speaker 05

  I, I think I could go somewhere else and definitely do a little bit, uh, I could modify my game. I modify my game greatly to be in Denver.

• 52:29Speaker 00

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• 53:28Speaker 05

  Because that's what fits for our team. Aaron Gordon, when he was in Orlando, man, he had the ball in his hands a lot. And step back jumpers, middies. On my podcast, he talks about like, everything he did was just a tough move, tough bucket. With us, he's just catching lobs, doing a lot of the dirty work, facilitating. So it's really about finding dudes that are willing to sacrifice some of what they know they can do to like, fit the team. And that's kind of what we, we got like, a lot of dudes who are nice. You know what I mean? So we kind of got to modify how we play a little bit.

• 53:59Ryan Clark?

  Speaking of being nice, you know, keep going back to where athletically, especially young, you felt like you could have ended up in the draft, right? But you get to the league, you are on this great team, this team with other players, you play your role. Is there ever any thought given? Because it's not, like, I get it, man, like athletics, like, everybody looks at our bank accounts, right? And if you ever had a complaint, they would say, well, you make, you're gonna get over $200 million. But they don't understand, that's not what it's about, right? It's about doing our best to reach our full potential. Is there ever any part of you that thinks to yourself, man, if I was in this place? Or if I played here, I'd have the, I've had the basketball in my hand more.

• 54:42Ryan Clark?

  I have an opportunity for more shots, have an opportunity to maybe be exactly what I thought I'd be before being drafted. Because you mentioned the sacrifice it does take to be on the Nuggets.

• 54:54Speaker 05

  When you win a championship, that's another thing that negates all that. I could go to another team and probably average 25, maybe. On this team, I'm averaging what, like 17? But we won a championship. And in today's NBA, you gotta have a team of about three or four dudes who could be All-Stars to, to win a championship. If you look at the Suns, they got three dudes who, who could be All-Stars. KD, Book, Bradley Beal. The Bucks, they got Giannis, Dame, Chris Middleton, you know? You got a, the same thing with the 76ers with Tobias Harris. He got to sacrifice some of that team. Joel, Tyrese Maxey. So in today's NBA, you gotta have like, a lot of dudes who are nice. So to your point, I mean,

• 55:39Speaker 05

  Sometimes I think maybe later in my career, after I've, you know, won some, maybe there will be an opportunity for me to go blossom and do more things. But I'm content right now. We won a championship.

• 55:51Speaker 05

  I'm not tripping at all.

• 55:52Ryan Clark?

  You have used your voice for various things. You have your own show, right? Where you get an opportunity to speak your narrative, speak from your perspective, not necessarily have people paint things for you. What was sort of the catalyst of you starting Curious Mike?

• 56:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, we talked earlier about, you know, the George Floyd situation and how some tweets got misinterpreted. There's been a couple of other situations, you know, when COVID hit and I'm in the bubble, I think I had like either put out on like Instagram or Snapchat, my thoughts about COVID. You know, I've always been a dude, like I said, I never cared about being canceled or what the public thinks. So I put out my real thoughts about COVID. I was like, yo, I know COVID is real. I had it. But it's definitely being used for some other things, you know what I mean? And so I never got the vaccine. You know, I was kind of outspoken about that. But it was just the way people take little, little things you say and just run with it. I didn't like that. So I was just like, I'm not messing with Twitter no more.

• 56:57Speaker 05

  I'm not finna put out no little like things that could be taken a certain way. I'mma just, why not just have my own podcast and, you know, ask people questions? I've always been curious. I think that might come from being homeschooled, but I've always been like a free thinker, didn't, didn't conform to what the culture wanted you to think or the social norms. So I think for me, Curious Mike was just an outlet to have people on there that I found interesting and ask them questions and have a like unfiltered conversation about things that, you know, some people may be scared to talk about or whatever and just talk about it and be open. I feel like on social media nowadays, if your opinion goes against what the normal opinion is, you get crucified for it. So for me, we're just trying to create like a, a safe place,

• 57:41Speaker 05

  just like y'all do, just to talk for real.

• 57:44Fred Taylor?

  What's your opinion on, you just mentioned the bubble. What's your opinion on the Lakers championship at the bubble?

• 57:51Speaker 05

  Like, is it stamped, you mean?

• 57:53Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, should a asterisk be beside it?

• 57:55Speaker 05

  Nah, because I think every team still had to be in a bubble. It wasn't like they got an unfair advantage. We all were there, we all was going through it. They lasted the longest, so if anything, credit to them, you know? It was tough being in the bubble. It wasn't as bad as people make it sound, but I think that the worst part was you couldn't have females up there. That's why dudes was getting in trouble.

• 58:16Channing Crowder?

  Wait, wait, wait.

• 58:17Fred Taylor?

  That's not your saying.

• 58:18Channing Crowder?

  That leads into my question, Fred, that leads into my question.

• 58:22Speaker 05

  But no, there's no asterisk on it.

• 58:23Channing Crowder?

  And this is, this is something that we can leave them out of, because beautiful, handsome, rich, light-skinned fellas like myself, and like yourself.

• 58:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, what's up?

• 58:35Channing Crowder?

  Is it hard, bro? Like, you, you, I don't know if you have a lady, but like, just traveling and doing, like, being what you are as NBA star, you can't sneak around nowhere. You 6'10", like, you're not sneaking nowhere.

• 58:48Speaker 05

  Is it hard in what way?

• 58:49Channing Crowder?

  Is it just hard that, like, your, your love life and all, like, can you, can you do it? I've been married 15 years now, because I find, you know, I found mine.

• 58:57Speaker 05

  So you married? So, did you know from like back in the day, or you met her like once you already were?

• 59:01Channing Crowder?

  I met her while I was playing at a charity event.

• 59:05Speaker 05

  Okay, that's a good place to meet a girl.

• 59:06Channing Crowder?

  That's a great place to meet a girl. But I was in the club too, and I wasn't married none of them motherfuckers.

• 59:11Speaker 05

  Right.

• 59:11Channing Crowder?

  But like, is it hard, is it hard, bro? Because you, like, honestly, I know he's joking, but, bro, you're a good-looking dude, and everybody know you big, you famous, you rich, shit.

• 59:19Speaker 05

  I think, um, it's definitely hard. I think it depends what you want, because like, some dudes, they want all the, all the girls, they want to hit, hit someone in every city, you know? They're trying to get all the different girl in every city. So, in that aspect, if I was trying to live that way, it wouldn't be hard. But I grew up in a household where I seen my dad be faithful to my mom. They had eight, eight of us, you know? God-fearing household, so I believe in, in marriage. Like, I know that's a concept nowadays where dudes is just like, nah, I don't really know if I want to lock it down with her. But that's what I saw growing up, so I believe in that. So in that, in that aspect, I think finding the right girl now is hard. Like, if I had met her in high school, it would have been cool.

• 1:00:02Speaker 05

  Like, a lot of these dudes marry their high school sweetheart. You know, Steph Curry, Giannis, LeBron. But nowadays, the way these females be acting, bro, I would say that's the hardest part is to... To meet a girl nowadays and like trust her with with that and give her that lifestyle. You know what I mean?

• 1:00:23Ryan Clark?

  How does your how does your faith play into that? Because in truth, like Christianity and faith is, you talk about the norm. It's becoming abnormal, especially for people to be outspoken about it. For people to truly walk the life. And so where it's not even just, I'm looking for a particular thing in a helpmate and a partner for the rest of my life. It's that my lifestyle is different. Is there ever, or how difficult is it sometimes to find someone who matches that with you?

• 1:00:58Speaker 05

  Yeah, it is. It's tough. Like I said, because it's so anti-cultural nowadays, but it's even worse with these females, bro. These, these, these, these girls out here is crazy these days. So, and they put on a front. Like, my dad has told me a story. He was engaged before my mom, but, you know, the girl was putting on a front like she really was into her faith or whatever. Man, he, he, he kind of saw some signs, whatever, broke it off with her. Next thing you know, his tires is slashed, his clothes is took out the curb. So, these girls know how to put on a front. They're getting slicker and slicker. I used to think dudes was worse than females. I don't really know anymore. I don't know, so.

• 1:01:35Ryan Clark?

  They just smarter.

• 1:01:36Speaker 05

  They, they, I think it's, it is hard, um, but it's gonna happen one day. I'll probably meet her overseas or something.

• 1:01:43Ryan Clark?

  Was your, was your, was your pops in New Orleans at this time?

• 1:01:46Speaker 05

  He was in New Orleans. My man.

• 1:01:48Ryan Clark?

  So, I'm, so I'm from New Orleans. Creole, where they Creole, was she Creole? So, I already know.

• 1:01:52Speaker 05

  So, he was in New Orleans, but it's crazy. They met through basketball, but like, my dad, because he, he was born in Mississippi, went to college in New Orleans. Bringing my mom over to that area, you know, he would, he wouldn't, he wouldn't hold her hand walking through there because there was still some, you know, some, some racism and stuff going on down there. So, and then my mom's from Iowa. That's like the whitest place ever, you know what I mean? So, she really. It was, it's crazy how they met. And I know they've told me stories about, you know, when my mom would bring my dad there, where she's from and vice versa, but uh, yeah, at that time, that's how it happened, yeah.

• 1:02:25Fred Taylor?

  I want to ask you about the in-season tournament.

• 1:02:27Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:02:28Fred Taylor?

  Because the Lakers hadn't been the same since they won it.

• 1:02:30Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:02:31Fred Taylor?

  How has that changed the dynamic, like the competition level at the early point of the, of the season because watching the NBA, you know, I, I've been watching it for, for a while. It seems like guys don't really start to turn it up until after the All-Star break. And then also again in the playoffs. How has that changed the competition level?

• 1:02:51Speaker 05

  I think it's definitely been a good thing. It was, it was fun for us, like we really wanted to get to Vegas. We really wanted to win that uh, it don't matter how much bread you got, 500 bands is smooth. You can do a lot with that.

• 1:03:01Fred Taylor?

  Super.

• 1:03:02Speaker 05

  So for everybody, like, we were trying to, we was trying to get there, especially for the young dudes on our team. They were, they really could've, could've used that as well. So it definitely increased the competition and I think it'll be a good thing going forward. But everybody still at the end of the day cares about the finals. The, the, the real playoffs, but I think that, that in-season tournament really uh, can put some, some, some uh competitiveness into those, those earlier games for sure.

• 1:03:32Fred Taylor?

  Can you actually see the difference in how guys would attack those?

• 1:03:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, nah, you can, you can see it. I think at the end of the day, like, people have this, this thought that dudes don't try hard. Sometimes in the regular season or in the early part of the season. But that's not true because dudes are still playing for contracts, playing time, All-Star appearances, all these things. So when people act like NBA players don't play hard, that's not true. Dudes is playing hard every, every game. You're just playing against the best, best athletes. So sometimes it might look a little easier. The only reason the playoffs looks different than the regular season is because you play the same team and you start to know all their plays. So teams aren't getting the same shots that they do in the regular season. But dudes is playing hard every game.

• 1:04:17Fred Taylor?

  Gets faster and faster.

• 1:04:18Ryan Clark?

  How much does fatigue play into that as well though?

• 1:04:21Speaker 05

  In the playoffs?

• 1:04:22Ryan Clark?

  No, just during the season. You know, during the season, the fatigue of of the travel, of being in different places, the back to backs.

• 1:04:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:04:29Ryan Clark?

  All of those things, because just our season is simple, right? When we played, it was seventeen weeks, eighteen weeks now. You play once a week. You gear up the entire week for three hours, right? And you understand in those three hours, that's all I have. It's a different mindset walking into the stadium.

• 1:04:44Speaker 05

  And I didn't realize that at first. I became real cool with Russ over this past year in Denver. And he kind of was walking me through the whole difference between, you know, their schedule and our schedule. He would talk about they would go have meetings every day, you know, and just the process of you get to do rehab all these days leading up to Sunday or whatever, when y'all play. But then you get, it's one game a week. So if you lose, you gotta sit on that. You gotta sit on that for a week. That's tough. Like, I would hate that. You know, you gotta sit on a bad game or an L for a week. For us, you play, you play again not in two days or a day. So it's a different mindset, but the fatigue is a little probably different. I mean, football is obviously more physical than basketball,

• 1:05:29Speaker 05

  but as far as having to get up and play a play a game against the best athletes in the world every other day can be tiring.

• 1:05:36Ryan Clark?

  It's crazy, y'all share a best friend.

• 1:05:38Channing Crowder?

  We don't share a best friend.

• 1:05:39Speaker 05

  Oh, you don't like Russ?

• 1:05:41Channing Crowder?

  Russ?

• 1:05:43Speaker 05

  He likes Russ.

• 1:05:44Channing Crowder?

  I don't dislike Russ, I just think he's lame.

• 1:05:47Speaker 05

  You just think he's like a little corny or something?

• 1:05:49Channing Crowder?

  He's corny, like, he's just not like, I'm from inner city Atlanta. I see him talk, I hear him talk, and I'm like, that's not the guy I want to hang with. I wouldn't, I don't want to have a dinner with him. And he's about to leave Denver, so y'all probably won't be having too many more dinners together, because.

• 1:06:03Speaker 05

  How you think that?

• 1:06:04Channing Crowder?

  Sean Payton, Sean Payton just said, I don't need Russ here.

• 1:06:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, why, why you, uh, why you think that went down? That whole situation was weird to me, as far as like them benching him and getting him out of there.

• 1:06:15Ryan Clark?

  But he was there before Sean.

• 1:06:17Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 1:06:17Ryan Clark?

  So Denver brought him in. And I don't know, I don't know how he feels about it. I asked you how you think about the situation, but I think he was there before Sean, and then Sean came in.

• 1:06:24Speaker 05

  And he wanted somebody else?

• 1:06:25Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, Sean wanted somebody else.

• 1:06:27Ryan Clark?

  Sean Payton is a turd.

• 1:06:31Ryan Clark?

  And that's okay, right? Like, he's from the old school of coaching. The Bill Parcell School of Coaching. If you listen, if you see a man coming to the first press conference, and he's asked about a quarterback he's never worked with, and he immediately says what he's not going to allow that guy to do, then he's already had a plan in his head of how I'm gonna treat him. Yeah. Right? The thing that's different in your sport and ours is like, it's five of y'all, but it could be five of y'all who are all multi, multi, multi-millionaires, who I think, I don't know how many can have a max contract. I think he's up with three players or whatever. However it works for y'all, you can have all of these mega-stars. There's usually only one mega-star on a football team, and that's the quarterback.

• 1:07:16Ryan Clark?

  Quarterbacks are treated differently. Quarterbacks are handled differently publicly. When you see a head coach speak about a dude personally, the way he spoke about Russ, he showed the world he had a problem with the person. What was, what was he saying directly about? Oh, he said that he kissed too many babies. He said that he's not a politician, that he should be more focused on football. When he, soon as he got there, he talked about the fact that Russ was doing things, whether it's quarterback coach, or whatever these things were that Nathaniel Hackett allowed, that he immediately wasn't going to allow as soon as he got in, without ever having a conversation with the man. In the sense of, if somebody asked me about you, and I don't know you, or it's before this show, and they're like, "Well, what do you think about Michael Porter Jr.?"

• 1:08:00Ryan Clark?

  I'm not gonna speak out publicly. I'm gonna be like, "I don't know him." Yeah. Right? I think he could hoop. That's all I, you know, and so I think when you saw that, and also too, you, and you're an adult, right? When you and your coach have conversations, or he wants to correct you, unless it's egregious, those are conversations. Right? He's never gonna talk down to you, belittle you, insult you, because you're a grown man that understands what your job is, and you're doing your best to get that job done. Russ is playing Detroit, and he is going out of his way to make it a scene to show that Russ is wrong. Right? I feel like that's a setup. Right, that's a setup, so now when I do bench him, I could say, well, you could see that things weren't working. Where when it comes out, you called that man early on in the season,

• 1:08:44Ryan Clark?

  and tried to extort him or bully him into changing his contract, and threaten him with benching.

• 1:08:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was crazy.

• 1:08:50Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying, and so like to me, I just thought it was, I just thought it was foul, and like, I don't know Russ, like Russ isn't, isn't my friend, but to me, right is right, and wrong is wrong. And I felt like, uh, he was mishandled, and, you know, I spoke out about it, and I still stand where I stand, you know, and like, they tried to bully him, and I do believe some of the stuff that Channing is talking about, and the way that Russ presents, like, we also know, like, Russ always says the right thing, right? He never wants to ruffle, ruffle feathers. His image is important to him. Russ wasn't gonna be the dude to fire back at Sean Payton when he was treating him like that, or talking to him like that. Whereas like, another grown man is gonna be like, nah, man, you gonna talk to me like, man, I got kids too.

• 1:09:32Speaker 05

  I didn't know too much about him before like, we, we got to kick it. And I know like, stuff does bother him. He's one of them dudes, he's not like me, like, I have, I have a faith in God, but like, if somebody talk, I'm gonna talk crazy. He's always one of them dudes that looks on the positive side of things, like, no matter what, like, I don't know how he does it. He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a good dude, like, I've learned some things from him. Um, he does care about football a lot, like, every time I'm there, he's getting treatment, watching film, doing something about football. But he is very, very like, positive, um, and tries to protect his image. I just wanna put that out there, cuz I mean, I know there's a stigma out there that he might be like, corny or lame, I know, I know.

• 1:10:13Channing Crowder?

  Bro, to, to the point, and it's something I said, RC, right? This is the thing, cuz we got a lot, I got a lot of flack about that. Season ends, Friday night, you wanna go party? My thing was, I'm not calling Russ to go out and hit the streets.

• 1:10:28Speaker 05

  Nah, he's not the dude to call for that.

• 1:10:30Ryan Clark?

  But he's not, but he doesn't want to go out.

• 1:10:32Channing Crowder?

  And he doesn't wanna do that because he's not made, like, he's not, like, I always say, he's not like us, like, the thing about being lame, like, but I know it's okay, that's what I'm saying, it's not a negative.

• 1:10:41Speaker 05

  Like, watch this, like, like, you would want your daughter to, to date a square?

• 1:10:46Channing Crowder?

  I want my daughter to marry a square.

• 1:10:48Speaker 05

  So then that's so that really when you call somebody like lame or corny or whatever, it's not really an insult because that's somebody you would want your daughter to marry.

• 1:10:57Channing Crowder?

  I know, but I would want to hang with him.

• 1:10:59Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna say this, you don't have to be corny to treat a woman right. So I'm not gonna say that just cause.

• 1:11:05Speaker 05

  But you know what I'm saying.

• 1:11:06Channing Crowder?

  I'm a great husband.

• 1:11:08Ryan Clark?

  But yeah, but like, but what I'm trying to say is it doesn't, it doesn't make you like being square, like not going out and all that stuff doesn't make you square.

• 1:11:15Channing Crowder?

  Just square.

• 1:11:16Ryan Clark?

  What, what it is, and what I think he was trying to say was.

• 1:11:19Speaker 05

  Was it like the thing where he was talking about the, the, the, the warming up on the plane or whatever?

• 1:11:23Ryan Clark?

  No, no, but I think.

• 1:11:24Channing Crowder?

  It's the Broncos country, let's ride. It's the shit he does.

• 1:11:28Ryan Clark?

  I would say this, we're gonna move on. It is lame, it is lame. What it feels like, and he, he eventually came out and spoke about the Sean Payton thing, right? And he, and he actually said, okay, this is what happened. When someone is as image conscious as Russ is, it seems inauthentic, right? I could disagree with you on things that you say. But if you always present to me in a way that I feel like is you, right? And it's your true thoughts, your true feelings, what you're actually dealing with. I'm like, whether I agree with him or not, I feel authenticity from him. People like to feel authenticity. It's why people love Allen Iverson.

• 1:12:08Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:09Ryan Clark?

  Right? Because the establishment wanted him to be a certain thing. And he was like, this is all I am. This is all I could be and I'm gonna be it every day.

• 1:12:15Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Ryan Clark?

  And I think sometimes when you do listen to Russ, when I ask you a question about the sky or if I ask you a question about football and they're the same answers, they can't be, right? If they're just a cliche, made up answer before you come into it. And I think that's why people have felt that way. But Channing's not wrong. I don't think Channing is wrong. I just think it's also okay for him to be himself.

• 1:12:39Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:39Ryan Clark?

  You know, but I want to ask you this question. It's how we end every show. I know you gotta go. Well, first off, I appreciate your time, bro. I know you're on the road.

• 1:12:45Speaker 05

  It's been dope, bro. I've enjoyed this.

• 1:12:46Ryan Clark?

  I know you wrote, we always ask everybody about their biggest pivot, right? And for you, somebody who's going through so many things, different moves, uh, you know, some letdowns, obviously the extreme highs of winning. What is that one moment you point to, Mike, that if you don't have it, MPJ is not where he is today?

• 1:13:09Speaker 05

  Man, I'm gonna choose, uh. A moment that happened like earlier on in my life, because I've seen God's kind of hand on my life the whole time. That's why I trust him even through my injuries. I think it was probably sixth grade, sixth grade, seventh grade. We're driving back from AAU Nationals. I'm with my teammate. And I'm in the back of the car. We pull over on the highway.

• 1:13:33Speaker 05

  So that his, so that his grandparents can catch up. His mom's driving a car. His grandparents are behind us, they gotta catch up, so we stop on the side of the highway. And I'm chilling, I roll the window down because we there for like twenty-five, thirty minutes. Because we drove from far, like ten hours away for this, for this tournament. I'm chilling with my arm out the window. Man, she, and it was out there for a cool ten minutes. I'm chilling, I'm like on, on my phone or whatever it is. And she's like, Mike, put your arm on the window. And I get hot because it's not my mom and, and second of all, like, it's been out here this whole time, now you want to tell me to bring, bring mom on the window? Man, so I put, I pull my arm in the window, rolled up the window. When I tell you probably fifteen, twenty seconds later, we got a side swipe on my side of the car. The glass comes in the car and everything like that, like my arm would have been gone, bro.

• 1:14:18Speaker 05

  And this was, my arm was chilling out there for a cool ten minutes. Fifteen seconds after I put my arm in the window, the car hit us on my side, like. I would say for me, that's the point I look back on my life. Um, when I'm like, okay, God was there for me then. He got me. He got me then, he got me now, you know what I mean? So I think that's a big pivot, obviously I got some other ones. But that's one that just came to mind right now, I wanted to share that.

• 1:14:40Ryan Clark?

  How much did that affect you though in listening to people? Right? Because, because you know, you, you, your thought like that, that like that's a. And I don't want to call it a nasty thought, but that's a thought, you're like, man, look, like you're my, you're my, not my parents. Right? Like, I don't have to listen, but in listening, it.

• 1:14:58Speaker 05

  Probably saved my life.

• 1:14:58Ryan Clark?

  Saved your life and definitely saved who you eventually became.

• 1:15:03Speaker 05

  Um, yeah, definitely. I think it just, I've always had respect for, you know, my parents and for other parents, but. They definitely taught me a lot. First of all, it just taught me, you know, sometimes God speaks to you through other people. So I think, you know, a lot of times people are mad when they don't hear from God, or they're going through something, they just feel like they're praying and nobody's talking back. Sometimes God will put somebody in your life, or it's just a simple word, and that right there is how God's talking to you. So I think I picked up on that a little bit more.

• 1:15:32Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, that was dope, man. We appreciate you, bro.

• 1:15:34Speaker 05

  Man, appreciate you. This is cool, for real.

• 1:15:36Ryan Clark?

  That was dope, dawg. Hey, if he said, "Don," it'd dap me off, I don't feel this bad.

• 1:15:41Channing Crowder?

  Keep going, like Gumby.

• 1:15:43Speaker 05

  Appreciate you.

• 1:15:45Fred Taylor?

  For sure.

• 1:15:46Ryan Clark?

  Hey, when he stood up, it was like...

• 1:15:47Fred Taylor?

  What size though? It was 13, man?

• 1:15:48Speaker 05

  He's 14.

• 1:15:49Fred Taylor?

  14.

• 1:15:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, it was like... It was crazy though. Only basketball players can find shoes in 14s. Right, like the regular cat walking around in 14, he wearing shacks.

• 1:16:00Speaker 05

  14 is like the last size they'll have in store.

• 1:16:03Ryan Clark?

  They ain't gonna have no 14s. He wearing shacks, the shacks with the shack dunking the...

• 1:16:07Channing Crowder?

  You can't wear the shack.

• 1:16:08Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? If you wearing 14. Where you want to take this picture at, bro? Can we take here?

• 1:16:12Speaker 05

  I got a dope shoulder, bro. This is cool.

• 1:16:14Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, man.

• 1:16:14Speaker 05

  I'm definitely gonna take some tips.

• 1:16:16Channing Crowder?

  Y'all go still.

• 1:16:16Fred Taylor?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 1:16:17Channing Crowder?

  I saw what Yoke is on your shit. When he was talking, he don't like basketball.

• 1:16:21Speaker 05

  He was just like, "Man, I don't like this life." He don't, bro.

• 1:16:24Channing Crowder?

  Well, he don't, he doesn't like basketball.

• 1:16:26Speaker 05

  He don't even wanna have like a... He loves basketball. He don't like the fame that comes along with it. He don't like...

• 1:16:32Channing Crowder?

  He don't like the attention?

• 1:16:33Speaker 05

  Any of that, bro.

• 1:16:34Channing Crowder?

  But, but...

• 1:16:35Ryan Clark?

  Chan ready for the picture, though, bro.

• 1:16:38Channing Crowder?

  Y'all can't make me stand. That always made me... If anybody over 6'3" had made me stand next to this nigga, but...

• 1:16:42Ryan Clark?

  Taking a picture like this, fam?

• 1:16:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, in the middle, right?

• 1:16:45Channing Crowder?

  Why your face like that? Why your face like that?

• 1:16:48Ryan Clark?

  Cause I'm the most handsome person of the four.

• 1:16:50Channing Crowder?

  You taking a picture right there.

• 1:16:54Fred Taylor?

  Are we really, you for real?

• 1:16:56Ryan Clark?

  I'm getting it.

• 1:16:57Channing Crowder?

  Shut up, that shit funny. Shut up, man, that shit funny.

• 1:17:01Speaker 05

  I definitely need to get up.

• 1:17:02Fred Taylor?

  This nigga long, long.

• 1:17:04Ryan Clark?

  He's still, bruh.

• 1:17:06Channing Crowder?

  This nigga long, long.

• 1:17:07Ryan Clark?

  He's still.

• 1:17:09Fred Taylor?

  And, thanks.

• 1:17:10Ryan Clark?

  BPJ, he still with it, dawg, like...

• 1:17:12Speaker 05

  This dude wild.

• 1:17:38Speaker 00

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