How Old is Link? (And Other Important Questions, LIVE from Portland)

LIVE from Portland, it's Triple Click! Kirk, Maddy, and Jason reach into the Gamer hat and answer some audience questions. It gets a little off the rails.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Hello everyone, Kirk here with just a bit of preamble for this episode. You're about to listen to our live show recorded on Friday, July 11th, at the Alberta Rose Theater in my hometown of Portland, Oregon. This is the main feed version, which means you'll get a regular episode of Triple Click, more or less just recorded on a stage in front of people and with a lot more energy. So you'll get our discussion topics, which were chosen by the audience, and you'll get our one more things as usual. However, the show was a full two hours long and it had a lot more going on than a regular episode of Triple Click. And if you'd like to hear that full two-hour show, all the songs we sang, the games we played, some sax solos, some bonus topics, some extra discussion of games we've been

• 0:46Kirk Hamilton?

  playing, well, you can listen to that if you go and become a Maximum Fun member, because that version is live right now in the Maximum Fun bonus feed. And if you're already a member, go listen to that version to get the full show. We had such a great time at this live show, I can't get over it. It was much more of a production than past live performances, and I really just couldn't have had a better time on stage. Thanks to everyone at the Alberta Rose Theater for making it all so easy for us, and a huge thank you to everyone out there who came out to the show. Rest assured, we will be back. All right, I hope you enjoy this recording of our live show. Thanks, as always, for listening.

• 1:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Hello, all you lowercase g gamers in Portland, Oregon. Welcome to Triple Click Live!

• 2:20Jason Schreier?

  I'm Kirk Hamilton.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  I'm Maddy Myers.

• 2:23Jason Schreier?

  And I'm Jason Schreier. Hello Portland!

• 2:27Jason Schreier?

  Wow, what a crowd!

• 2:30Speaker 02

  We made it. We're here.

• 2:31Jason Schreier?

  Pacific Northwest is pretty cool. It is. I'm telling you guys. I'm always saying it.

• 2:37Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, we came out just for Kirk. Anything you say. All your New York supremacy is just misguided at that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, it's nice. It's nice here. He said it. Like a distant, like, third or fourth. For a New Yorker, that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. It's like New York, and then New York again. Then Queens. Staten Island. No, Staten Island's on the bottom. Okay, no offense to Queens. Staten Island jokes, like, really play in the Pacific Northwest.

• 3:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, they really do. They really do.

• 3:07Jason Schreier?

  They love it.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  So what are we doing tonight, Jason?

• 3:11Jason Schreier?

  What are we doing? Well, we're playing a live show in Dublin, Oregon.

• 3:14Speaker 02

  We are. We're doing a live show.

• 3:15Jason Schreier?

  We all flew out here. Kirk drove the 10 minutes from Missouseto. That's true. That's true. I did carry all the stuff, though. How about Kirk Hamilton on the guitar?

• 3:25Jason Schreier?

  On the stage. How about Maddy Myers?

• 3:31Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, but how about Jason Schreier?

• 3:33Jason Schreier?

  Jason Schreier.

• 3:36Jason Schreier?

  This guy can play the guitar. All right. So we got a lot to get through. We do. It's a big show.

• 3:42Speaker 02

  We've got a lot to get through?

• 3:44Jason Schreier?

  It's a supersized show for you all.

• 3:45Speaker 02

  It sounds so fun.

• 3:46Jason Schreier?

  Well, yeah, I mean, we gotta grind on through it.

• 3:51Jason Schreier?

  I got places to be. I got stories to break. We have some topics to discuss. We asked some of you to write some down on index cards as you came in. But you know what? That box is a little hard to get stuff out of. Maddie, give us your hat.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:09Jason Schreier?

  Give us your video games hat.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  My video games hat, you mean? This hat?

• 4:13Jason Schreier?

  Your video games hat.

• 4:15Speaker 02

  This hat that I'm wearing only for this purpose?

• 4:17Jason Schreier?

  So what we're gonna do tonight is we are going to take the hat and we're gonna pick out some topics and questions and things to discuss. We did not read these in advance, so...

• 4:29Speaker 02

  So we're just gonna see what happens. This is our first time.

• 4:32Jason Schreier?

  We're trusting you guys to keep it a-ha.

• 4:34Speaker 02

  This is our first time ever answering a question before.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Okay. Well, this one's tough. How old is Link?

• 4:47Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay, well, first clarifying question. Ocarina of Time or a different Zelda game?

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Doesn't say. We have to decide.

• 4:55Kirk Hamilton?

  All of them. How, like Breath of the Wild Link? Twink Link?

• 4:58Speaker 02

  He's over 100 years old.

• 5:00Jason Schreier?

  I feel like this is written by someone who's like, "Over 18?"

• 5:08Speaker 02

  Well, we haven't started playing Ocarina of Time yet on the podcast, so I would say Link is still legal.

• 5:13Jason Schreier?

  So we don't know the answer.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Well, I just mean he's a kid in that game. I was talking literally here.

• 5:17Jason Schreier?

  Well, he's a kid and he's an adult.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then he becomes an adult later. He's over 100 years old in Breath of the Wild, right?

• 5:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, that's a good point. He's quite true.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  Because of the mystical Sleeping Beauty coma.

• 5:27Kirk Hamilton?

  The cryosleep that he was in.

• 5:29Jason Schreier?

  Does that count?

• 5:30Speaker 02

  I think so, yeah.

• 5:31Jason Schreier?

  If you're cryogenically frozen.

• 5:32Kirk Hamilton?

  It's a little bit like one of those technicalities. Like, "Your Honor, she was an 18,000-year-old dragon."

• 5:39Jason Schreier?

  Let's call the anime defense.

• 5:43Speaker 02

  So he's 118 years old. We agree.

• 5:46Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay, that's how old Link is.

• 5:47Speaker 02

  I'm putting these on the floor. We didn't plan this part out very well. We needed a second half.

• 5:50Jason Schreier?

  Maddie, pass the hat around.

• 5:51Speaker 02

  Pass the hat, am I right?

• 5:53Jason Schreier?

  All right. Let's get a good one.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, don't take it from the top. The bottom ones are the good ones.

• 6:01Jason Schreier?

  I feel like we've answered this on the show before, but I'll read it anyway. In the TripleClick logo, which controller belongs to which person? Yeah.

• 6:07Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh yeah, do we remember? I remember.

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, do you? What was it?

• 6:11Kirk Hamilton?

  I think Jason is the Nintendo, the Super Nintendo.

• 6:14Speaker 02

  I am the Xbox.

• 6:15Kirk Hamilton?

  I am the PS4 and you're the Xbox.

• 6:16Speaker 02

  I know I'm the Xbox.

• 6:17Kirk Hamilton?

  Because you're the hardest core gamer of all of us.

• 6:20Speaker 02

  Oh, well, it's true. It's true. All right, Kirk, get to turn.

• 6:24Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay. Oh, wow. Okay.

• 6:28Kirk Hamilton?

  This is a nice question. Did you all intentionally set out to connect with a wider community via the podcast, the TripleClick Discord, et cetera, or was that an accident? How do you feel about having the following that you do now? It was a total accident. Actually, we didn't mean to publish this show.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  What are you all doing here?

• 6:47Kirk Hamilton?

  It was just gonna be a fun thing that we were gonna do to practice podcasting and then like someone leaked it and then here we are. No, I think we sent, yeah, I mean, if you make a podcast, you set out to connect to a wider audience. I don't think we could have, you know, imagined that it would be quite like this, but then again, you never know where something is gonna go.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think we're also okay with it not being the biggest thing in the world. We've talked a lot about what success means to each of us and what makes us feel good about the show, where it is. Do we want to be playing stadiums? Obviously. And we're working towards that every day because that's what success is. But no, for real, I think we feel really good about where it is and we do try to intentionally reach more people.

• 7:33Kirk Hamilton?

  I do think that the TripleClick Discord is a very special place. That was kind of, and that wasn't intentional exactly because we didn't do that.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  That's not our doing.

• 7:41Kirk Hamilton?

  This is our, for anyone here who doesn't use our Discord, it's our, the server where people who listen to the show can hang out. Some people hang out there who don't listen to the show and they just, they're in there like to talk about video games because it's a nice place to be. And we didn't really have much to do with that aside from maybe setting the tone with the show. So that was not intentional exactly. We were like, let's just have a Discord. I don't know, we'll see what happens. And now there's like thousands of people in there having a great time. So that's just a very cool, unexpected side effect, I would say.

• 8:07Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, just no gamers.

• 8:09Kirk Hamilton?

  No gamers. That was the one rule.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, those are the only rules.

• 8:11Jason Schreier?

  No capital G gamers.

• 8:12Kirk Hamilton?

  If you've ever played a video game, you're not welcome here.

• 8:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's still true.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Okay, favorite video game tree?

• 8:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, man.

• 8:25Jason Schreier?

  That's a good one.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Gotta think of a tree, guys.

• 8:29Kirk Hamilton?

  It's not the Deku tree. Fuck that guy.

• 8:32Kirk Hamilton?

  He can fix his own problems. He's always asking me to go inside and deal with the spiders. No.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Gotta say, it's also not that tree that spits at Kirby. That guy...

• 8:41Kirk Hamilton?

  No.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Hmm, no. A lot of bad trees in games.

• 8:45Jason Schreier?

  That one's pretty cute.

• 8:48Speaker 02

  What's his problem, you know?

• 8:50Jason Schreier?

  I've been playing a lot of Fantasy Life, I... And they have a lot of trees in that game. There are like all sorts of trees that you can chop. So I don't know, I guess they're not your favorites if you're just cutting them down constantly.

• 9:01Kirk Hamilton?

  I mean, it could still be your favorite.

• 9:02Speaker 02

  What's your favorite tree to chop?

• 9:03Jason Schreier?

  The cherry tree is fun to chop.

• 9:05Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah?

• 9:05Jason Schreier?

  You go full George Washington.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, you lie about it, or...

• 9:09Kirk Hamilton?

  Does it make like a satisfying sound when you chop it down?

• 9:11Jason Schreier?

  They all do. It's like a mini-game. You have to like walk in. I'm gonna spoil the Fantasy Life section of this podcast. You like walk around in a circle, like looking for the sweet spot, which does extra damage to the tree.

• 9:22Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, okay.

• 9:23Jason Schreier?

  And then you chop it. It's very addictive.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Extra damage to the tree.

• 9:27Kirk Hamilton?

  So that's your answer, is the cherry tree?

• 9:30Jason Schreier?

  There are more in the box, right?

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:32Kirk Hamilton?

  There are so many.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  There's so many more. We might not get to them all, but that's okay.

• 9:37Kirk Hamilton?

  We're gonna go as fast as we can.

• 9:39Speaker 02

  Hurry!

• 9:40Kirk Hamilton?

  We've got a timer going here.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Jason's already rejecting some of them.

• 9:43Jason Schreier?

  How can I support game studio unionization from outside of the video game industry?

• 9:51Kirk Hamilton?

  It's a popular question. Unions, who knew? Actually, a lot of people knew, I think.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  I think changing public opinion about unions is something that we all participate in

• 10:06Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  together, all the time. And I feel like we've watched it change just in our media careers. Like, when I was starting out, I don't think people were as pro-union just among journalists and reporters that I know. And now, it's like, well, you really need to be in one. And that word of mouth is really spread. So I think there's something to just sharing articles about it and changing public opinion among people you know, whether it's related to games or not. I think that makes a difference.

• 10:30Kirk Hamilton?

  Jason, you gave a GDC talk about this.

• 10:33Jason Schreier?

  Well, it was less a talk and me interviewing somebody.

• 10:35Kirk Hamilton?

  You asked a guy questions who...

• 10:36Jason Schreier?

  Probing tough questions.

• 10:38Kirk Hamilton?

  Who had things to say about it. You talked. I was there, though. It was great. I don't know. What would you say?

• 10:43Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I don't know, because I don't feel like there's really anything that people outside of a workplace can do to, like, impact. Like, it's ultimately up to the workers, I feel like.

• 10:52Kirk Hamilton?

  I would say...

• 10:53Jason Schreier?

  Because they have to decide if a union works for them, and why, and what that union looks like. Because a union can take so many different forms, right?

• 10:59Kirk Hamilton?

  That's true. Like, so the current presidential administration has gutted the NLRB. And so, I was wondering if there would be some hisses. Yeah, we're not huge fans up on the stage. And they've gutted national labor protections in the NLRB. And I think that is something, I mean, it's pretty tangential, or you're pretty removed from it. If you're voting for people who are pro-labor, they're not going to gut the NLRB and other union, you know, national union protections. So, that's something. But a lot of it, yeah, is just sort of being cool and, you know, being pro-union. There's not a whole lot that a just layperson or someone who plays video games can do directly.

• 11:39Kirk Hamilton?

  Also true, join a different union.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Multiple people are asking about the controllers and the logo. The people want to know.

• 11:48Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay, well, that person got their answer already. They must feel so happy.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  Okay. Do video game companies coerce players to play and pay attention to games that are easiest to profit from?

• 12:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Hmm.

• 12:03Speaker 02

  Sometimes.

• 12:04Jason Schreier?

  Do video game companies coerce? I'm imagining, like, a slave labor camp of gamers.

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, we're all being taken advantage of.

• 12:10Jason Schreier?

  EA is just like, so...

• 12:12Speaker 02

  I mean, I think there's a certain kind of game, we might imagine.

• 12:14Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, like, I think if you think of a type of design, right, that the, like, really sticky design that sucks you in, yes, I think that is totally, it's the same as designing a casino or gambling apps. You know, they're designed to be frictionless and really sticky and to pull you in. And then you, you know, give you this big reward every so often and keep you in the zone, so you're just kind of cruising, like, yeah, absolutely, game companies do that. It's pretty scummy. It's like, not the kind of video game that I like at all.

• 12:41Jason Schreier?

  We also designed this podcast so that people keep listening.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. That's a separate question.

• 12:45Jason Schreier?

  That's how, to answer the first question, that's how we built our audiences, through gotcha mechanics.

• 12:50Speaker 02

  Coercion.

• 12:50Kirk Hamilton?

  Targeted, targeted frictionless design.

• 12:52Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:55Kirk Hamilton?

  All right, next question.

• 13:00Kirk Hamilton?

  This is a variation on the show logo question.

• 13:02Jason Schreier?

  Okay.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  It's just pure logo all night.

• 13:04Kirk Hamilton?

  It is. This is logo three. If you remade your show logo but with foods,

• 13:13Kirk Hamilton?

  who would be holding what?

• 13:19Kirk Hamilton?

  I would be holding a burrito because we always talk about how I like burritos. Like Jason got a burrito with me once in like 2019 and then he talks about me eating burritos.

• 13:29Jason Schreier?

  It was like 2014.

• 13:31Kirk Hamilton?

  So I would be holding a burrito.

• 13:32Jason Schreier?

  I would be holding chicken wings.

• 13:34Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay. Like they'd be on your fingers.

• 13:37Jason Schreier?

  Oh yeah, all over.

• 13:38Kirk Hamilton?

  Some like slime.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think I'd be holding a little container of popcorn because it's sort of multifaceted. It's like, I'm just having a good time, like in the memes, but also I legitimately really like popcorn.

• 13:49Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  So it plays both ways.

• 13:51Jason Schreier?

  No, Kirk, you would be holding potato chips. You're like a potato chip.

• 13:53Kirk Hamilton?

  I do like potato chips.

• 13:54Jason Schreier?

  Beaned.

• 13:55Kirk Hamilton?

  The jalapeno kettle chips.

• 13:56Jason Schreier?

  Chip beaned.

• 13:57Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, the greatest potato chip of all time.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  There's more.

• 14:02Jason Schreier?

  Oh, Kirk, this is for you. Kirk, if Chrono Trigger is on the table as a payoff for this year's predictions, if I went, does that mean we might also get a Yosunori Mitsuda episode of Strong Songs?

• 14:15Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh man.

• 14:19Kirk Hamilton?

  I think I wouldn't commit to an episode of Strong Songs right now because I'm still planning out the next season. But I would love to talk about that music because I do love Mitsuda's music. I think that's one of the best video game soundtracks of all time.

• 14:30Jason Schreier?

  That would be good. That would be real good.

• 14:31Kirk Hamilton?

  And so there would be at least some kind of short feature on TripleClick or something about it. Because yeah, one of the great soundtracks.

• 14:38Jason Schreier?

  One time you did like a Strong Songs on TripleClick called Hey, Listen.

• 14:43Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes.

• 14:43Jason Schreier?

  And then you just stopped doing this.

• 14:44Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, because I was like, I have another show where I do this. It's a lot of work.

• 14:49Jason Schreier?

  Cannibalizing yourself.

• 14:51Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I was feeling very ambitious at that time, I think. This will be fine. I'll just do like five episodes of Strong Songs every month. Okay, what do we got? What's the deal with the Metroid Prime 2 and 3 remasters?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Right?

• 15:05Kirk Hamilton?

  I only have a Switch and I need to play them.

• 15:09Jason Schreier?

  We were just talking about this last night, right?

• 15:11Kirk Hamilton?

  We were. Yeah, we were sitting around.

• 15:13Speaker 02

  I'm wondering what's up with those. It seems like they're not gonna do it, doesn't it?

• 15:17Kirk Hamilton?

  It does kinda seem that way.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  I'm looking at Jason like he has secret information.

• 15:21Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, your uncle works at Nintendo.

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Like, Jason, do you know?

• 15:25Jason Schreier?

  I'll just call Doug Bowser.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, call Doug.

• 15:27Jason Schreier?

  You know what's funny about saying Doug Bowser is that it sounds like you're making a joke. Like, "I'll just call Doug Bowser." But that's actually the president of Nintendo.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. It does seem like they're not gonna do it, though. And I feel for this person, because they only have a Switch, which I assume is them referring to the fact that they can't, you know, play them via Prime Hack or some other methodology. Because there are good ways to play remastered versions of those games, but... Guess you have to play the originals. I mean, I feel like those games don't get a lot of love. They're not as beloved as the first Metroid Prime. I think we can all admit that, even me. I'll admit it. But it's sad, because 4 is gonna come out. It's got a "4" right there in the title? Like, doesn't that kinda make everybody feel like you're supposed to play 2 and 3? But yeah, they're just not gonna do it. I've given up hope.

• 16:13Kirk Hamilton?

  Can I ask, is... One of them has like a light and dark... There's like a shadow.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 16:17Kirk Hamilton?

  You're in the sun and you're getting burned. Like that one Destiny level. That's my only frame of reference. What's the other one? Is there a gimmick in the other one?

• 16:26Speaker 02

  Um, well, the third one is corruption, so it's about like a virus.

• 16:30Jason Schreier?

  Well, the gimmick also was the Wii mode you used to shoot.

• 16:33Speaker 02

  Yes, the motion controls are in the third one.

• 16:35Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, motion controls. I know people didn't like that one. I read that one, so I think you're up.

• 16:40Speaker 02

  Okay, great.

• 16:42Speaker 02

  Is this Maddy and Jason's first time in Portland? And have you guys done anything fun while you're in town?

• 16:50Jason Schreier?

  Well, we've been staying at Kirk's house, so nothing fun.

• 16:52Kirk Hamilton?

  No fun. We have a strict no fun policy.

• 16:56Jason Schreier?

  No, Kirk's house is actually lovely.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  It is, it's beautiful.

• 16:58Jason Schreier?

  And she has a giant golden retriever, Appa. It was amazing.

• 17:01Kirk Hamilton?

  She is. We almost brought her to the show. It would have been really fun to bring her.

• 17:07Jason Schreier?

  Did you say almost?

• 17:08Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay. Almost is maybe overstating this.

• 17:10Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, no, you did not.

• 17:11Kirk Hamilton?

  Emily and I talked about possibly bringing Appa to a show.

• 17:15Jason Schreier?

  I don't think animals are allowed in here.

• 17:17Kirk Hamilton?

  Maybe not, and we didn't even ask the other girls.

• 17:19Speaker 02

  But we almost did it.

• 17:21Jason Schreier?

  You're getting death stares from the stage manager.

• 17:24Kirk Hamilton?

  No, we didn't even ask, but I think she would have, I think it would have blown her mind so hard she never would have recovered. To get this much, because all she wants in the world is attention. And to get this much attention, it would be too much for her little brain.

• 17:36Speaker 02

  It has been fun to play here.

• 17:37Jason Schreier?

  I know, I've been here a few times. I think this is my third or fourth time in Portland.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've been here a couple of times as well. But never before have I gotten to play Mario Kart World in Kirk's home.

• 17:48Kirk Hamilton?

  That's true.

• 17:50Speaker 02

  We got to do that last night.

• 17:51Kirk Hamilton?

  So pretty fun. We have a good time in my house.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Pretty fun.

• 17:55Kirk Hamilton?

  Play Mario Kart.

• 17:56Jason Schreier?

  We did, we went to Powell's this morning.

• 17:58Kirk Hamilton?

  We did go to Powell's, yeah. Of course. Jason likes to go to Powell's and check to see where all his books have been sorted. I'm not kidding. And it is kind of important because sometimes they miscategorize them and they file them as video game guides.

• 18:11Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 18:12Kirk Hamilton?

  Which is only true in the loosest sense of the word.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  Powell's didn't do that. Powell's put the book in the business section.

• 18:17Kirk Hamilton?

  No, they nailed it.

• 18:18Jason Schreier?

  They're good.

• 18:18Kirk Hamilton?

  Yep, they had it.

• 18:19Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I signed a bunch of copies.

• 18:21Kirk Hamilton?

  It was actually sophisticated business, is what it said.

• 18:23Jason Schreier?

  Sophisticated, yeah.

• 18:24Kirk Hamilton?

  For sophisticated business books.

• 18:25Speaker 02

  They have a whole section just for that.

• 18:26Kirk Hamilton?

  It was mostly leather-bound tones.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  Only Jason's book is there. It's all alone.

• 18:30Jason Schreier?

  If you want to go and do a business, this is where you go.

• 18:32Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes, exactly. And then they've got Play-Doh right there.

• 18:39Jason Schreier?

  Kirk.

• 18:40Kirk Hamilton?

  Hey.

• 18:40Jason Schreier?

  What eatery in Portland do you have to take the others to?

• 18:46Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, we didn't go here. My favorite pizza place is a Pizza Shoals.

• 18:53Kirk Hamilton?

  Kind of an easy answer. It's like saying you like Blue Star Donuts.

• 18:56Jason Schreier?

  You're really gonna... I come in from New York and you really would take me to Pizza Hut?

• 19:00Kirk Hamilton?

  It is very good. A Pizza Hut is great. Don't get all New York weird. Save that stuff. But, we went to Laurent's last night. Has anyone here eaten there? That place is good. This is not a sponsored post. Laurent's is very, very good. And they were just really nice. And the food was delicious. Am I out? So that was the eater guy's business.

• 19:27Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, I see. Okay.

• 19:31Kirk Hamilton?

  What are your favorite games that no one would call one of the greats?

• 19:37Kirk Hamilton?

  This is like a common forum thread topic.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Like a game we like, but nobody would...

• 19:47Kirk Hamilton?

  I'm trying to think.

• 19:47Speaker 02

  It's tough because I have such good taste.

• 19:51Kirk Hamilton?

  What are my favorite games?

• 19:52Speaker 02

  I'm just always right.

• 19:53Kirk Hamilton?

  Or just objectively greats.

• 19:57Speaker 02

  We have to think of a bad game that we like. Or kind of a seven out of 10 game that we like.

• 20:01Kirk Hamilton?

  I really like Far Cry 5.

• 20:07Kirk Hamilton?

  That's the one where you're in Montana. And there's like a cult leader named Joseph Seed. And he's the Messiah or whatever. And then it has a really dark and horrible ending. And it's a very nihilistic and kind of unfortunate game. It's very weird. But it's pretty fun and I liked it. So there's one that I liked.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Do you have one, Jason?

• 20:27Jason Schreier?

  I mean, all of my games are like terrible. All my favorite.

• 20:33Jason Schreier?

  You guys have had to play some of my favorite games.

• 20:36Kirk Hamilton?

  I would say that people call Final Fantasy VI one of the greats.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  I think they did say that about Sweet Code 2 as well.

• 20:41Jason Schreier?

  But like other, just like trashy JRPGs.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:47Kirk Hamilton?

  What about you, Maddie?

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Oh, boy. I mean, I like all the Dragon Ages, even the ones that didn't review that well.

• 20:53Kirk Hamilton?

  The Dragon's Age.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  The Dragon's Age. I feel like it's sort of misremembered now. Like, people think of Inquisition as like, it was lauded upon release, but it really wasn't. And I liked it even at the time.

• 21:04Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I gave it a good review.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, you're right.

• 21:07Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, we have great taste. It's the sole problem of this question.

• 21:10Speaker 02

  This is why it's so hard. But I know that at the time, people were like, "What's up with the hinterlands?" And all that. But I liked it.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  All right. It's my turn.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  This says Dunk Fest and then it's got a little scrawl of a basketball. Just to kind of intro what the questions vibes are. Y'all appreciate the creative process and have compassion for creatives. What's a piece you find irredeemable? Bankrupt?

• 21:42Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, man.

• 21:43Speaker 02

  I actually have an answer to this.

• 21:44Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I do too. Duke Nukem 3D.

• 21:50Kirk Hamilton?

  That is a pretty irredeemable game, I would say.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  That's a good answer. So my answer, there is a game that is, it's called the C-word, but it's all spelled out in that game, and it's made by Edmund McMillan, and people probably know him because he made the Meat Boy games. And most people don't know that he made a game that is a graphic depiction of like a penis attacking a vagina. I know, way back in the day. So I interviewed him about it when Meat Boy was getting really popular, and people can dig this interview up on the Boston Phoenix archives if they want to find it. I'm really proud of it because it was like one of my early interviews I did where I was like, "I'm gonna challenge this guy." And he was, it's Edmund McMillan, so he was a super good sport, and he was like, "Yeah, that game was really messed up.

• 22:36Speaker 02

  I don't, I was going through some stuff at the time."

• 22:39Kirk Hamilton?

  That's funny.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  It was a weird decision I made, and I was like, "Yeah, it was really weird. Why?" So we just like had a fun conversation about it.

• 22:46Kirk Hamilton?

  So everyone agrees irredeemable?

• 22:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, even he was like, "I don't know. I'm sorry." But yeah, it was kind of like the Newgrounds era where you like made a lot of edgelord-y games that would just be shock, shock jock kind of games, and you'd play it for free, that sort of thing. But yeah, I do think that game's just really bad. It's bad.

• 23:03Kirk Hamilton?

  I just realized I should clarify, I meant Duke Nukem Forever. Duke Nukem 3D is fine. Duke Nukem Forever irredeemable.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  Duke Nukem Forever is really...

• 23:13Kirk Hamilton?

  Really bad.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  The pits.

• 23:15Jason Schreier?

  Um, Destiny.

• 23:21Kirk Hamilton?

  Also maybe our favorite 7 out of 10.

• 23:24Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, well.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Pre or post Dinkage?

• 23:27Jason Schreier?

  My favorite game ever and also my least favorite game ever. Every time I played Destiny, Amanda would just like, she would come to me afterwards and she would be like, "Why do you play that game?" "All you do is talk about how much you hate that game."

• 23:42Kirk Hamilton?

  Just complain.

• 23:45Jason Schreier?

  Alright, oh, another Metroid question.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 23:48Jason Schreier?

  Playing Metroid Zero Mission on Maddy's suggestion, and it is so good. What Metroid do I play next? Already played Prime and Super. Dread is too hard for me.

• 23:59Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, okay.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  Okay, Fusion is what I would say next.

• 24:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Fusion.

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Metroid Fusion is the next one. So, it's a little easier than Dread, but it also comes story-wise right before Dread. And I will say Dread has an easy mode now, that I've heard is alright. And, no shame. Easy modes, it's all good, whatever you want.

• 24:18Kirk Hamilton?

  It's a hard game.

• 24:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a hard game, it's a hard game. Didn't have an easy mode when I was playing it, and there were certainly some moments where I was like, "Really?" Even me.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Alright, this is sweet. The Bad Feeling remix with Kirk is my fave. How did this person know I was gonna be reading this question?

• 24:33Jason Schreier?

  I don't know.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  About a song I wrote that there's a remix featuring Kirk on the saxophone.

• 24:38Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  And check it out. Any chance we hear it? Not tonight, but we are gonna play a different song of mine.

• 24:45Jason Schreier?

  That's true.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  Later. We got more songs to come.

• 24:48Kirk Hamilton?

  And I will be playing some saxophone, though not on that song.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  That's true, not on that song.

• 24:51Kirk Hamilton?

  That was very fun, this was a...

• 24:52Speaker 02

  That was fun.

• 24:53Kirk Hamilton?

  A producer, I guess, came to me saying, "Hey, I wanna remix Maddy's song, do you wanna play a sax solo?" And I was like, "Yes." And I think we surprised you with it, right?

• 25:00Speaker 02

  You did. Bit Culture is the name of the remix.

• 25:02Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes, Bit Culture, thank you.

• 25:03Speaker 02

  And the two of you just came to me and were like, "We made this incredible remix of your song."

• 25:08Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it was really fun.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  And I still listen to it, and I'm like, "This is really good."

• 25:11Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it was good.

• 25:12Speaker 02

  And I wrote it. I didn't write that sax solo though, that's all. That's all Kirk able to...

• 25:17Kirk Hamilton?

  It's true, the whole time I'm like, "Hope Maddy doesn't hate this solo."

• 25:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, it would be funny if I was like, "What did you do?"

• 25:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay, oh, we have a very straightforward one here. Best DLC that enhances the original game's experience?

• 25:32Kirk Hamilton?

  I mean, I guess, while we're talking about Destiny, I will say The Taken: King. For Destiny, was an expansion that enhanced the original game's experience.

• 25:42Speaker 02

  Did it make it a good game?

• 25:44Jason Schreier?

  At the time.

• 25:47Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it was great.

• 25:48Jason Schreier?

  Good is a relative term.

• 25:50Kirk Hamilton?

  Enhanced.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  Enhanced is true. That's factual.

• 25:54Jason Schreier?

  That's DLC then.

• 25:55Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah.

• 25:58Jason Schreier?

  Hollow Knight's Silk Song?

• 26:02Kirk Hamilton?

  It did. Because the magic of Hollow Knight is waiting.

• 26:05Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, it just totally overhauled.

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, in a way it enhanced Hollow Knight. Because it just increased the anticipation that we all feel about Silk Song.

• 26:14Kirk Hamilton?

  That is true.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  And it made Hollow Knight a better game.

• 26:17Jason Schreier?

  Uh, Cyberpunk.

• 26:19Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, actually.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  That actually is a good answer. That's a good answer.

• 26:21Kirk Hamilton?

  Are we gonna separate the 2.0 update from the Phantom Liberty DLC? Because they're asking about DLC.

• 26:27Jason Schreier?

  But they came so close together.

• 26:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, it's true.

• 26:29Jason Schreier?

  That it's like, I feel like they're one of the same.

• 26:30Speaker 02

  I still feel like it's a fair answer.

• 26:32Kirk Hamilton?

  That's a very good call.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Because Phantom Liberty is such a good DLC of its own, with its own story. That's fun.

• 26:37Kirk Hamilton?

  It is very good. It's a good answer.

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Oh, is it my turn?

• 26:39Kirk Hamilton?

  I guess so.

• 26:40Speaker 02

  Wait.

• 26:41Kirk Hamilton?

  Or it's Jason's.

• 26:41Speaker 02

  It's Jason's turn.

• 26:42Kirk Hamilton?

  I think we got the order off at some point.

• 26:50Jason Schreier?

  Vaporware. What the hell happened with Little Devil Inside?

• 26:57Kirk Hamilton?

  Little Devil Inside?

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Remember that game?

• 26:59Kirk Hamilton?

  No.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  It had a cool trailer that we talked about on the show.

• 27:02Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Kirk Hamilton?

  What is it?

• 27:03Jason Schreier?

  It was like a few years ago.

• 27:04Kirk Hamilton?

  Describe the trailer to me.

• 27:08Kirk Hamilton?

  It was a few years ago. What was in the trailer?

• 27:11Jason Schreier?

  I don't remember, but I could just make things up.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:13Jason Schreier?

  Alright, so it's inside of someone's body. There's a devil. No, sorry, Maddy.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  Forget what I said. It's more Jason's turn.

• 27:19Jason Schreier?

  Do you remember what it actually was? Because I was just gonna make things up.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, they kind of looked like little wooden guys. And they were running through like a really hyper-stylized world. It looked like a sort of 3D puzzle platformer type of a situation. Is any of this ringing a bell?

• 27:33Jason Schreier?

  You know that episode of Magic School Bus where they go inside the human body?

• 27:38Jason Schreier?

  It's like that.

• 27:39Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay. Well, no, I don't know. That was, the whole question was just Little Devil Inside.

• 27:42Jason Schreier?

  And I don't know what happened to it.

• 27:44Kirk Hamilton?

  No. Sorry.

• 27:45Jason Schreier?

  If anyone out there knows.

• 27:47Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, speak up.

• 27:47Jason Schreier?

  Let this person, let this anonymous ask her, no.

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, some people have signed their names, but very few have. Alright, this person is just doing bits, but I'm still gonna humor them.

• 27:58Speaker 02

  When Jonathan Blow streamed Blueprints and complained that it actively hates the player quote, do you think Bennett Foddy felt a disturbance in the forest?

• 28:10Kirk Hamilton?

  Did that really hap- Did that really happen?

• 28:13Speaker 02

  I assume, yes.

• 28:14Kirk Hamilton?

  I'm hearing enough yeses that I believe it. Wow, that's funny.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  Ben Affleck, though, king of making games that do, quote, "actively hate the player," but that's part of the joy-

• 28:24Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, and Jonathan Blow, the master of telling people, "Just be patient." Like, I don't know, do you guys, you guys remember the, um, uh, walkthrough for Braid that you could look up? Did anybody here look up the walkthrough for Braid? When Braid first came out in 2008, this was like, the internet had just been invented, so... You know?

• 28:41Speaker 02

  Only a couple people had.

• 28:42Kirk Hamilton?

  Right, there were just a couple websites. One of them was a walkthrough for Braid, and if you, if you Googled "a walkthrough for Braid," Google was like a search engine that worked.

• 28:55Kirk Hamilton?

  You would type in "Braid walkthrough," and like, a relevant website would come up and you would click on it, and it was like, "braidwalkthrough.com," and you would go to this page-

• 29:04Speaker 02

  Is this real?

• 29:04Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes. You would go to a page that was, I think, made by Jonathan Blow, and it was a, you know, you see the beautiful Braid art in the background, and it says, "Here's the Braid walkthrough." "Don't look up hints for this game." And that's what it said on the, on the website. And then you, you like, read a whole thing, and he's like, "Just be stuck for a little while, it's gonna be okay, take your time, think about the puzzle, and you'll solve it." It was really cool at the time, just because it was kind of a clever way of telling people, you know, "Don't just rush through the game, and if you feel stuck, you know, you have to be in the stuckness." And then The Witness was all about that, that was like, the philosophy of that game. There were all these kind of ponderous recordings of a guy being like, "I like being stuck, it's great." Something like that, I don't know, you played the whole game, I actually never finished it, but...

• 29:47Jason Schreier?

  Didn't, I, didn't Jonathan Blow once tweet like, a picture of a bottle full of pee? And he was like, "Working hard," or something like that?

• 29:58Jason Schreier?

  Like, he didn't wanna get up from his desk to pee?

• 30:01Kirk Hamilton?

  Is that, I don't know if that was him. Anyways, he was, uh, feeling stuck in the moment, and living in the stuck- So anyhow, I don't know, for, for, it, it is funny that he would be frustrated by a game like Blueprints. That's all I'm saying.

• 30:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is ironic, yeah. Maybe he should've just read a walkthrough? I mean, I know that's sort of against his MO, but there are walkthroughs-

• 30:21Kirk Hamilton?

  It's true. As far as I know, Tonda didn't put up a Blueprints walkthrough website, that's like, "Don't look stuff."

• 30:26Speaker 02

  And if anything, I think he was okay with people using walkthroughs, maybe more than you or I. Uh, I guess it's your turn, because I just read that one.

• 30:35Kirk Hamilton?

  Cool.

• 30:40Kirk Hamilton?

  What is the best movie sequel? And why is it Terminator 2?

• 30:48Kirk Hamilton?

  I mean, Terminator 2 is a really good sequel.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Terminator 2 is really good. And Sarah Connor looks great in it.

• 30:55Kirk Hamilton?

  She does.

• 30:57Speaker 02

  Those guns, they motivate us all.

• 31:00Kirk Hamilton?

  It's true. It's true. When she does a pull-up, I'm like, I can't do a pull-up. What is another great movie sequel? I mean, The Two Towers, that's a sequel. That's a movie sequel, kinda counts. I like that better than Fellowship. Uh, what else?

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, Empire.

• 31:17Kirk Hamilton?

  Empire is a great example as well.

• 31:19Speaker 02

  I mean, I feel like it's, the answer really is, why are sometimes sequels better?

• 31:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Evil Dead 2. People just call 'em out. We'll agree with you, probably.

• 31:29Speaker 02

  It's because for a sci-fi or fantasy world, you've already set up all the constraints. You've introduced all your proper nouns.

• 31:35Kirk Hamilton?

  Back in the habit.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Like, you know, a science fiction movie, like Sister Act, for example. You've set up all your proper nouns. Everybody knows what's going on.

• 31:44Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, I know. I know one. Rise of Skywalker. Sorry, uh, next question.

• 31:54Speaker 02

  Last one. There's more in there.

• 31:57Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh yeah, we got one left.

• 31:58Speaker 02

  But we don't.

• 31:59Kirk Hamilton?

  But we actually have dozens left.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  Can you grab a refill?

• 32:03Jason Schreier?

  I need to refill some.

• 32:05Kirk Hamilton?

  Get some more in.

• 32:07Jason Schreier?

  Thanks, everyone, who wrote in these questions.

• 32:09Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah. We'll hang on to the ones we don't answer. Maybe we'll do an episode later.

• 32:12Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, I think we'll do a few more and then, uh, and then we'll do some more things.

• 32:16Speaker 02

  Do something else. They'll all get answered someday.

• 32:23Jason Schreier?

  Will they, though?

• 32:26Speaker 02

  You'll never know.

• 32:28Jason Schreier?

  Okay. If you could choose any other company to manufacture a console, now or in the past, who would you choose?

• 32:38Kirk Hamilton?

  Hmm.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  Okay, Taco Bell.

• 32:44Kirk Hamilton?

  That's a good one.

• 32:45Jason Schreier?

  That would be like a Gordita Crunch console.

• 32:46Speaker 02

  It's like a fourth meal, but it's a console.

• 32:50Speaker 02

  It's like you already have the main three, but what's the fourth console? Taco Bell.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  I just think they have it. They've got something there.

• 32:59Kirk Hamilton?

  Fender?

• 33:03Kirk Hamilton?

  They probably make a kind of a cool console. It'd sound great.

• 33:06Jason Schreier?

  Like Guitar Hero.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  They could work with harmonics on it.

• 33:08Kirk Hamilton?

  You'd have to tune it up before you play it.

• 33:13Jason Schreier?

  Ooh ya, they should make a console.

• 33:14Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, they should. They should like stream over the internet. That would be amazing.

• 33:19Speaker 02

  I was actually kind of rooting for Ooh Ya.

• 33:22Jason Schreier?

  And it's just, it's broken. It just tells you the wrong things.

• 33:26Kirk Hamilton?

  It's just like, you're a great job. You won. You're the best.

• 33:31Jason Schreier?

  Or you put in Mario and it's like, oh, you would like to play Sonic.

• 33:38Jason Schreier?

  I think Taco Bell is the real winner.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks. What's your favorite I Think You Should Leave sketch?

• 33:46Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, man.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  We do talk about this on the show a lot.

• 33:48Jason Schreier?

  It's really hard to narrow it down.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  Mine is Coffin Flop, though.

• 33:53Kirk Hamilton?

  Coffin Flop is good.

• 33:54Speaker 02

  I've watched it so many times.

• 33:55Jason Schreier?

  I mean, there's some, like...

• 33:57Speaker 02

  But I know, there's so many good ones.

• 33:59Jason Schreier?

  Load of Nachos is up there.

• 34:02Kirk Hamilton?

  I like where he's really into his phone and he updates his phone all the time. When he ever feels weird, he gets on his phone. That is one of my favorites.

• 34:11Jason Schreier?

  And Sloppy Stakes.

• 34:12Speaker 03

  If I feel weird, I just get on it. I use it.

• 34:15Jason Schreier?

  Triples. Triples is good.

• 34:16Kirk Hamilton?

  Little Buff Boys is a good one. The Zip Line.

• 34:20Speaker 02

  The Zip Line one's iconic now.

• 34:23Kirk Hamilton?

  Talking about Death Stranding and the Zip Lines.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  I know.

• 34:26Kirk Hamilton?

  Sam Bridges really is the guy from that sketch. He's just here for the Zip Line.

• 34:29Speaker 02

  He really is. He really is.

• 34:33Kirk Hamilton?

  Hmm.

• 34:34Speaker 02

  You're just deciding which you do.

• 34:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, I'm gonna go through them all.

• 34:37Speaker 02

  We're running out of time, so.

• 34:38Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay.

• 34:39Speaker 02

  We're really not.

• 34:41Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, this just asks, have any of you played the Kid Amnesia game that Radiohead made? And what did you think of it?

• 34:47Speaker 02

  I haven't played it.

• 34:48Kirk Hamilton?

  And that's the sad answer is no, but this reminds me that that happened in a ship.

• 34:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Has anybody played it?

• 34:54Kirk Hamilton?

  This one is blank. I think this is just a moment that we should all sit in silence. And we should think about ourselves and our lives and our place in those lives.

• 35:05Jason Schreier?

  Do you think that was an accident or like a Nathan Fielder like?

• 35:08Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh. Do you see him with his laptop?

• 35:11Jason Schreier?

  Like a prank on us, yeah.

• 35:13Kirk Hamilton?

  Is he watching us? I want to read one that we can actually answer. Okay.

• 35:21Jason Schreier?

  I like Kirk's little reactions before telling any of us.

• 35:25Kirk Hamilton?

  What are the economics for creators of games that are available on Xbox Game Pass or PlayStation subscriptions? That's a big question.

• 35:33Jason Schreier?

  What are economics?

• 35:35Kirk Hamilton?

  What are economics?

• 35:37Jason Schreier?

  Does anybody know?

• 35:39Kirk Hamilton?

  I guess the question is sort of how do you make money? Is that a sustainable model?

• 35:45Speaker 02

  And also maybe are you aware of what the split is when you make that deal? Or the deal's different for everyone? Again, we're looking at Jason.

• 35:53Jason Schreier?

  I'm gonna look at the crowd and hope someone doesn't answer. No, well, there's a split. I mean, if you're like, you're some developer and Xbox is like, hey, we want you on Game Pass, then they pay you and you put your thing on Game Pass.

• 36:06Speaker 02

  Is the split the same for everyone?

• 36:07Jason Schreier?

  But there's no split because it's not, there's a revenue.

• 36:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I see, yeah.

• 36:10Jason Schreier?

  It's not like they're giving you a percentage of each subscription or something like that. The question is like you have to do some forecasts of like how much am I gonna miss out on in terms of sales if I put it on there? And for some companies, it's been really lucrative. Remember, at least in the past, like Rocket League was on PlayStation Plus when it launched? And that's one of the reasons it got really big. So sometimes for multiplayer games, it can be really successful because it builds this massive player base and everyone's talking about it. But then other times, it's like, oh, we just. Like, gave up all of our potential sales.

• 36:45Kirk Hamilton?

  I was thinking about how a lot of games launch on PlayStation like Plus or on Xbox Game Pass, but they just added Cyberpunk to PlayStation Plus like last month. And that's another approach that I never really see people talk about, that your game has been out for a long time and it's already sold, like Cyberpunk sold a jillion copies. And now they're just like, "Well, what the hell, we'll put the base game on a subscription service." That seems like it may be a different approach, but I could see why someone would do that, maybe more than launching a new game on it.

• 37:15Jason Schreier?

  Alright. When will we get a new 3D Mario for the Switch 2? Exact date, please. Kirk, you first.

• 37:26Speaker 02

  Take a shot. If you're right, it's gonna be crazy.

• 37:29Kirk Hamilton?

  October 21st, 2026.

• 37:33Jason Schreier?

  Maddy?

• 37:34Speaker 02

  I'm gonna go later than that. I'm gonna go November 3rd, 2027.

• 37:42Kirk Hamilton?

  The year of Mario. 2027.

• 37:48Jason Schreier?

  October 3rd, 2035.

• 37:54Speaker 02

  But weirdly, we're gonna get a lot of 2D Mario before that.

• 37:56Jason Schreier?

  That's true.

• 37:57Kirk Hamilton?

  We didn't know those, the Odyssey team is making Donkey Kong.

• 38:00Jason Schreier?

  Donkey Kong Bonanza, Donkey Kong Bonanza 2, Donkey Kong Galaxy. And then maybe some Mario.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  That would actually kinda own, though.

• 38:09Jason Schreier?

  That would be very funny.

• 38:11Speaker 02

  Alright. When you're gaming, are your music ears on and you're thinking about the composition? Or can you turn that off? Speaking for myself, I can't turn it off.

• 38:21Kirk Hamilton?

  No, me either.

• 38:21Speaker 02

  But I don't think it's a bad thing.

• 38:23Kirk Hamilton?

  No, sometimes the music is distracting, or especially if it's really kind of bad or it doesn't fit the scene.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Well, of course.

• 38:29Kirk Hamilton?

  And then, yeah, a lot of times I think I'm just noticing it. Once I've heard it a million times, it does kind of fade into the background, I guess. I do find that when I'm really struggling with a very difficult boss, I have to not listen at all and then I play a lot better. Once I know the fight really well, I like take my headphones off and like turn the volume off and then just go off the visuals.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I do that.

• 38:47Jason Schreier?

  Kirk is like doing strong songs in his head, just like talking through each of that.

• 38:50Kirk Hamilton?

  Sometimes, yeah. A lot of times I'll have like an instrument nearby, so I can be like, "Oh, what?"

• 38:55Speaker 02

  I don't do that. I do turn off the music sometimes for a hard boss, though, which is sometimes feels like the wrong thing to do because those audio cues can be paramount.

• 39:05Kirk Hamilton?

  Right. I guess turning it down helps.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, turning it down, but sometimes also, it's almost like how changing environments helps you focus more. Just like playing with no sound and just watching, you notice more things. Turn the sound back on.

• 39:18Kirk Hamilton?

  Play with only sound.

• 39:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, play only sound. You're not playing. You just kind of see if the boss kills you or not.

• 39:26Jason Schreier?

  I only play games while watching TV, so I don't listen to music.

• 39:31Kirk Hamilton?

  Okay, this is, if you had to recommend a podcast that covers RTS games, real-time strategy games, or something like Factorio, what would it be? I actually don't have an answer for this.

• 39:43Speaker 02

  I don't listen, but isn't Three Moves Ahead?

• 39:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Oh, I guess Three Moves Ahead. Yeah, they definitely cover strategy games anyways.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  I've heard good things. I hope they're good, because I don't know.

• 39:50Jason Schreier?

  Why would anyone listen to a video game podcast?

• 39:53Kirk Hamilton?

  That's a fair question. Did you put that question in here?

• 39:57Jason Schreier?

  All right, let's do one more question.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  All right, it's all on you, Jason.

• 40:01Jason Schreier?

  We'll do some more things. Okay.

• 40:03Speaker 02

  He just starts rejecting every single one. He's like, "No, no, not good enough."

• 40:06Kirk Hamilton?

  He's gotta find a really good closer.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Ooh, not good enough.

• 40:09Jason Schreier?

  Yeah.

• 40:09Kirk Hamilton?

  He looks disappointed.

• 40:10Jason Schreier?

  You gotta find a good one. Oh, we kind of answered. Some of these are a little bit... Okay, here's a good one. In Pixar's Cars,

• 40:22Jason Schreier?

  what happens if you open their doors? Is it just organs in there?

• 40:32Kirk Hamilton?

  I think the car organ looks like the parts of a car.

• 40:35Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 40:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Like Lightning McQueen's pancreas looks like a steering wheel.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're sentient android, almost, but they're a car.

• 40:41Jason Schreier?

  But they're in the hood, or the hood is the mouth, so it can't be in the hood.

• 40:44Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, I guess the hood... Well, right. No, they talk them through the grill.

• 40:47Jason Schreier?

  Right, the grill is the mouth, yeah.

• 40:49Kirk Hamilton?

  The hood is like the nose, I guess, or the top of the head.

• 40:51Speaker 02

  Well, but I mean, our brains are behind our hood, as it were.

• 40:57Jason Schreier?

  Behind our grill, as it were.

• 41:00Kirk Hamilton?

  And then in the trunks, that's where they keep the bodies of all the people in the world that they have killed, because there are no people left. The drivers that they got sick of have been stuffed in the trunk.

• 41:09Jason Schreier?

  That's true.

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, that is true. Yep, that's true.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Great, great question to end on.

• 41:15Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, good question to end on. Thanks for all your questions for the Video Games Hub.

• 41:25Speaker 04

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• 42:05Speaker 03

  Walking About is the podcast about walking. It's a walkumentary series where I, Alan MacLeod, and a fun, friendly guest go for a walkabout. You'll learn about interesting people and places and have the kind of conversations you can only have on foot. We've got guests like Lauren Lapkus.

• 42:28Speaker 02

  I figured something out about this map, like how to read it.

• 42:32Speaker 03

  Betsy Sidaro. I had no clue. That's awesome and nuts. John Gabris. This is like great first date for like broke 20 something, you know? And more. Check out Walking About with Alan MacLeod on Maximum Fun.

• 42:50Kirk Hamilton?

  And yeah, we have so many left over. We'll probably, we'll hang on to them and we'll maybe we'll answer. All right, Kirk and Maddie, it is time for one more thing. It is. Kirk, why don't you go first? All right. My one more thing is both a TV show and a book series. Because I had to do two more things. Classic. It is actually a book series that I have talked about before that has been adapted into a TV show. It is called Murder Bot.

• 43:18Kirk Hamilton?

  I thought there might be some fans. So, this is Martha Wells' wonderful book series that I have talked about on the show, have devoured, love them dearly. They're really, really good books. I just found out there's a new Murderbot story coming out. I think it just came out. It's like, today, right? The finale went up? Yeah, so there's a new Murderbot story, which is very exciting. And it's partly exciting because I didn't love the Apple TV show. How did everybody out here who watched the show feel about it? Woo! Yeah, people liked it. It wasn't bad. And when I say I didn't love it, it wasn't that I was like, "Oh, this is terrible." I just think that they kind of made some missteps, even though they got some things right. So, this show is an adaptation of

• 43:59Kirk Hamilton?

  a book series. Like I said, the book series is about a cyborg. He's technically, it's technically a construct that is not a bot, which is sort of just a robot, and not, obviously not a human. It has organi, like, organic parts. Right, like in cars. Like a car, yes. It's about Lightning McQueen. Yeah. It's a car's prequel. We get it. Yes. So, Murderbot, as it calls itself, is a rogue sec unit, security unit, that has hacked its governor module so that it can be totally free. And no one really knows that it's free, because if they did, they would destroy it. It's like a piece of corporate technology. It's owned by a corporation. But then, it goes on a job with these very nice people from an independent, sort of, planet system, or, I guess, star system, whatever.

• 44:44Kirk Hamilton?

  A group of independent people who are very nice, and it realizes that it kind of likes them. And then, over the course of the book, of the books, it develops a relationship with them. And it's really sweet. It's like a very nice, very action-packed, very fun series of books with a really distinct protagonist, with a very distinct voice. And they're all narrated in the first person by Murderbot, by a sec unit, who sees the world in a very particular way, and doesn't really understand humans, and doesn't understand how things work. So, as a result, you get this very narrow view of things, and you have to do a lot of decoding. And that's what's so fun in the book. You see these characters like Mensa and Pin Lee, who are, over the course of the books, you really get to know what they're like.

• 45:27Kirk Hamilton?

  We're kind of guessing because Murderbot doesn't pay a lot of attention to them and you only get a few lines, so they develop really slowly. So on a TV show, it's just totally different because you have an actor playing each character and you're just going to see this actor and they're going to be doing all these lines and acting and you just get a way stronger sense of all the characters. And so as a result, for me at least, you have to be really careful with the characters when you're doing that. And I think they just didn't quite nail some of the characters. Pin Lee is like a little not how I picture her. Mensa is kind of like a nervous wreck in a way that I just like didn't seem to fit with the story and I don't know why they changed that. Alexander Skarsgård plays Murderbot. He is very good. I think he does a very good job. And so it's good. The actors are all good. I don't mind the changed characters that much, but I'm just a little, I'm so

• 46:12Kirk Hamilton?

  precious with the stories because you become so familiar with Murderbot's point of view that seeing the show is just, it's been very hard to separate them out. And the last critique I will make for the show is that they release it in half hour episodes. And that's a huge problem, I think. Like every week, Emily and I, Emily also loves the Murderbot books, and we would watch an episode and it would be like 23 minutes long. And it's just not enough time. And it's the first book, which is a very short book. You could read the book in about the time it would take to like watch two episodes or something of the show. And so it's drawing it out over so much time. And they're just, every time an episode would end, we'd be like, okay, so we just wait till next week for like the next extremely brief series of events. And I think that was a mistake on

• 46:55Kirk Hamilton?

  Apple's part. It should have been 45 minute episodes. Maybe just make it like five episodes in a season or something. That would have worked better. So I will definitely watch the next season. I haven't seen the finale. And, you know, I'm excited that they're making a show and I think it's getting more people to read the books. But I wasn't wild about the show. It was a little bit disappointing for me. Bing! Kirk here, editing the episode. I bet you didn't think that I would bing into a live episode, but here I am. Binging into my own one more thing. To add a couple little things about the Murderbot show for starters, after our live show, I watched the finale and I actually thought it was really good. It changed a lot of stuff. It just invented a whole new little mini storyline compared to the book, but it was actually really a good storyline. I thought it was well

• 47:37Kirk Hamilton?

  Done. It was more tonally consistent than a lot of the rest of the show. And I, I really liked the finale. So it made me feel more positively about the show overall, or at least about the finale. And I also just wanted to shout out David Desmalchian, I think is how you pronounce his last name. He is a character actor who has been in everything. You've definitely seen him in things, in Ant-Man, if nothing else, but he's in a ton of different things. And he plays Garathan in the show. And I forgot to mention him on stage, but he is really a highlight, as much as some of the other character interpretations aren't quite right to me. They nailed Garathan and they actually gave him a lot more to do. And I just think that Desmalchian is a fantastic actor and he really kills it. His scenes with

• 48:18Kirk Hamilton?

  Scarsgard are terrific. So anyways, yeah, just wanted to add that. Okay, back to the live show. Bing. So.

• 48:26Jason Schreier?

  Good to know.

• 48:26Kirk Hamilton?

  That's my one more thing.

• 48:27Speaker 02

  So if you're me and you haven't read the book yet.

• 48:30Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes.

• 48:30Speaker 02

  But you heard your glowing recommendation, would you still recommend that I would read the book and watch the show? Or should I not?

• 48:36Kirk Hamilton?

  I think read the book. If you want to watch the show, fine. Get the version of Murderbot and the version of the characters in your head that the book will give you.

• 48:43Speaker 02

  So ruin the show for myself the exact same way that you did.

• 48:45Kirk Hamilton?

  Yes, exactly. Because the books, the books are where it's at. Like Martha Wells is awesome. And like I say, start with the books for sure.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is like a classic problem, though. You read the book and then you're like, but I already know all the characters in my head and I've cast them as specific actors.

• 48:58Kirk Hamilton?

  Well, and it'll be hard now. I would think it would be hard not to see Alexander Scarsgard as Murderbot, even if you haven't seen the show. Just because you've seen the promotional art and you know what he looks like, which isn't the worst thing in the world. Like, Murderbot is very undefined in the books. It's an interesting thing. You never get a description really of what Murderbot looks like, other than like, I looked normal or I looked average, you know, which is kind of fun. Like you don't, you can kind of imagine Murderbot however you want.

• 49:22Jason Schreier?

  Quick digression. When we were at Powell's this morning, we found what might be the best book title.

• 49:30Kirk Hamilton?

  We did.

• 49:31Jason Schreier?

  That we've ever seen. It is Murder at Sex Island.

• 49:37Jason Schreier?

  Which, I think we were talking about how like if someone went to a book publisher with that, they would be like, "One million dollars." Like normally you have to write the book and send it to them?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  No, not kids.

• 49:49Jason Schreier?

  With that book, you only need a title.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  No.

• 49:51Kirk Hamilton?

  Bing, Kirk here, binging in again with some extra information about this book that I feel I have to share. Murder on Sex Island: A Luella Van Horn Mystery was written by the great Joe Firestone, a comedian who, among other things, co-hosts Dr. Game Show right on our own network on Maximum Fun. So I thought that was pretty cool and thought we should shout her out by name since she did write the book and it looks like a lot of fun. I really am going to read it. Okay, anyways, back to the show. Bing.

• 50:16Jason Schreier?

  Maddy, what's your one more thing and why is it not Murder on Sex Island?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  I just haven't read it yet, but I am thinking about it. So Dean and I watched all of The Studio, which was recommended on this show, and I'm recommending it again. So I think it was both of you who had seen it when we talked about it. And you both were like, "It's not quite a comedy. It's like uncut gems."

• 50:37Jason Schreier?

  At times.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  I agree with, but I will say, it's a comedy for sure. And we were laughing the whole way through. But I don't want to spoil any part of it, but I'll just describe it in brief. So Seth Rogen stars, he sort of plays against type by playing a Hollywood movie executive and kind of being on the other side of the cameras, it were, and probably including his own informed experiences of what it's like to talk to people like that. It's also a very loving representation of this type of person, even though he's also unbearable to be around at certain points in the show. But he loves movies and yet is also making a movie about Kool-Aid Man.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  And there's a really great episode about whether Kool-Aid Man should be portrayed by a black actor or not, and is that racist? That's like, the entire plot of an entire episode, it's wild. But there's one moment that I thought was really fascinating where Seth Rogen's character gets into an argument with some doctors about which of their jobs is more important.

• 51:48Speaker 02

  And I've just still been thinking about it because I'm, I'm kinda like, well, they're both important and they're just not comparable. But it's really stayed with me as a sort of riddle. It's like, is, how important is art? And I think, I think we all agree. We're here talking about art today.

• 52:06Kirk Hamilton?

  Sure.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  The end of the day. We all agree it's important, but also, you know, doctors and what they do is pretty important, too. So yeah, it's a comedy. It's a really good show, good funny show. So I recommend it. It's called The Studio. It's on Apple TV Plus, whatever.

• 52:19Kirk Hamilton?

  We hadn't talked about the finale. I think we hadn't seen the finale when Jason and I talked about it.

• 52:24Speaker 02

  The finale is incredible.

• 52:25Kirk Hamilton?

  I, you forget, you forget that Bryan Cranston is like, one of the funniest actors because he was so intense on Breaking Bad. He gets to do comedy on the show and he's hilarious. Man, yeah. I laughed harder in the finale than I have in the show.

• 52:39Speaker 02

  More than one pratfall per episode sometimes. A lot of pratfalls.

• 52:43Jason Schreier?

  Maddy, you should listen to The Town, which is a podcast. Matt Belloni of The Town is on the show. And then he interviewed-

• 52:48Speaker 02

  Who appears as himself.

• 52:50Jason Schreier?

  So he interviewed Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg, the creators of the show, like, on his podcast. And it's great. They talk about like, behind the scenes.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  That's amazing. That's like, one of the fun things about the show is that they'll be like, oh, the characters will be talking about Matt Bellany, you know, entertainment reporter. And I'll be like, you know, that's a real guy in my head. And then Matt Bellany will appear in the show and I'll be like, whoa, what, what's going on? The whole show is like that.

• 53:11Jason Schreier?

  Well, what's really funny is that Matt, his like, regular co-host, Lucas, who is on The Town on Mondays, is my editor. So, a little bit of a-

• 53:21Speaker 02

  Small world. So are you gonna be in the studio?

• 53:23Jason Schreier?

  Separation. I would like to, yeah.

• 53:25Kirk Hamilton?

  Season two, Jason Schreier cameo.

• 53:26Jason Schreier?

  We'll see if they can afford me.

• 53:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Hmm.

• 53:28Jason Schreier?

  Um, my one more thing is also a TV show.

• 53:32Kirk Hamilton?

  Nice.

• 53:33Jason Schreier?

  Uh, it is called The Four Seasons. Have you guys watched the show?

• 53:36Kirk Hamilton?

  No. I'm curious about it.

• 53:38Jason Schreier?

  It's fascinating. Okay, so this is a show, it's kind of like a reimagined version of a movie from the eighties with Alan Alda. And it's about these three couples. And it's got Tina Fey, it's got Will Forte, it's got Stephen Correll, Steve Correll, and a couple of other actors.

• 53:55Speaker 02

  Stephen Correll.

• 53:56Jason Schreier?

  Stephen Correll, yeah. Of the-

• 53:57Kirk Hamilton?

  He's Stephen now. He's become a more serious actor.

• 53:59Jason Schreier?

  Stefan, it's got Stefan Correll. And it's really wild. I thought it was gonna be funnier than it was. It's very dramatic and it's about all these couples on these four different seasonal vacations. They're all in their 50s and they're all going through midlife crises and watching their relationships fall apart. And it's really interesting for a few reasons. One is that I kept turning to my wife and being like, "Oh, my God, we can never be like these people." But two is, what I thought was really cool about it is that always in shows and on movies, we see a lot of people in their 20s and 30s, like, living life in their 20s and 30s. Like, Seinfeld and How I Met Your Mother and Friends and, like, I don't know, The League.

• 54:42Jason Schreier?

  And some of my favorite shows are all about people in their 20s and their 30s. It's very rare to see people in their 50s, like, straight up, like, full-on Gen Xers who, like, have kids who are now in college and are all just miserable all the time.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, you never see shows about that.

• 54:56Jason Schreier?

  It's very interesting to watch. It's like a perspective of people, very clearly, like, Tina Fey's, like, the position, the stage in life that she is in. And it's really interesting to see that era of one's life portrayed in a way that I haven't really seen it portrayed much on TV shows before. Very entertaining show, very good show, The Four Seasons. I recommend it.

• 55:19Kirk Hamilton?

  Nice.

• 55:19Jason Schreier?

  You guys should check it out. Only eight episodes, so easy to watch.

• 55:22Kirk Hamilton?

  I think of the characters on Seinfeld as being older than me and Friends.

• 55:27Jason Schreier?

  Yeah, 'cause it was the night.

• 55:28Kirk Hamilton?

  Right.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  And also they were wearing, like, big pleated pants. And, like, you watch that show now and you're like, "They're 45. Look at how they're dressed."

• 55:36Kirk Hamilton?

  Yeah, obviously.

• 55:37Jason Schreier?

  Right, George Costanza, it's like, he's 25.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  He knows why.

• 55:41Jason Schreier?

  You're like, "Wait a minute, wait a minute." Well, that's, I mean, if you guys ever watch, I was watching Curb on the flight here, actually, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Larry David, they talk about him as, like, a guy in his 40s when he looks like he's 70.

• 55:55Jason Schreier?

  His dad, like, he has a dad on the show who's like in his 70s. And it's very strange, the way that age is a funny thing, it turns out. It is. All right, so for those of you out there listening at home on the audio feed, this is where we say goodbye. Maddie, give us a bye.

• 56:12Speaker 04

  Bye.

• 56:13Jason Schreier?

  For everybody here in this theater, we are not going away. We are taking a little break. We're gonna go take an intermission, and then we'll be back. In the meantime, go grab a drink, go buy some merch, hang out, make yourselves comfortable, do whatever it is people do during intermissions, look at your phone, whatever. Pull out your switch, whatever. We're going to go take a little break, and then we'll be back. Yeah, we'll be right back.

• 56:49Kirk Hamilton?

  Triple Click is produced by Jason Schreier, Maddy Myers, and me, Kirk Hamilton. I edit and mix the show and also wrote our theme music. Our show art is by Tom DJ. Some of the games and products we talked about on this episode may have been sent to us for free for review consideration. You can find a link to our ethics policy in the show notes. Triple Click is a proud member of the Maximum Fun Podcast Network, and if you like our show, we hope you'll consider supporting us by becoming a member at maximumfun.org/join. Find us on Twitter at TripleClickPod, send email to [email protected], and find a link to our Discord in the show notes. Thanks for listening. See you next time.

• 57:47Jason Schreier?

  Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artist-owned shows. Supported. Directly. By you.