988 The Morning Routine of Millionaires, Superstars & History’s Greatest Geniuses w/Robin Sharma

“Genius is less about genetics and much more about your daily habits.”Lewis is joined by leadership expert and bestselling author Robin Sharma to discuss how "The 5 AM Club" can help you reframe your mind, rebuild your heart, and renew your life. They also talk about the problem with positive psychology, and how to take advantage of this challenging moment to develop resilience. Mel Robbins: The “Secret” Mindset Habit to Building Confidence and Overcoming Scarcity: https://link.chtbl.com/970-podDr. Joe Dispenza on Healing the Body and Tranforming the Mind: https://link.chtbl.com/826-podMaster Your Mind and Defy the Odds with David Goggins: https://link.chtbl.com/715-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 988 with New York Times bestselling author, Robin Sharma.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:31Lewis Howes?

  The Greek philosopher Epictetus is quoted as saying, "Wealth consists not in having great possessions, but in having few once." And Thomas Edison once said, "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Oh, I am so pumped that you are here today because when I first interviewed Robin Sharma a couple of years ago, he immediately became one of my favorite podcast guests, and I am so pumped to have him back on today. Robin is one of the world's top leadership experts, a bestselling author whose books have sold more than 15 million copies

• 1:10Lewis Howes?

  in over 92 languages. In his most recent work, The 5 AM Club, gives incredible insights into a daily routine to help optimize our lives. And in this episode, we discuss why the greatest people in history woke up before the sun, a specific morning routine to set yourself up for daily success, why genius is more about habits than talent. That's right. It's more about habits than talent. How to take advantage of this moment to become more resilient in your life? What the wealthiest, highest achievers are doing right now to set themselves up for future financial growth and so much more.

• 1:50Lewis Howes?

  If you're enjoying this at any time, I was enjoying it the whole time. Share this with someone who you think needs to hear it. You can take the link, lewishouse.com/988, or just copy and paste the link on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or wherever you're listening to this, and share it with a friend during this episode. And if you're enjoying it as well during any time, make sure to leave us a rating and review over on Apple Podcasts. And I am so excited to bring you Robin Sharma.

• 2:20Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness Podcast. I'm super excited because we have one of my favorite human beings on the show right now. His name is Robin Sharma, and he's widely considered one of the world's top leadership experts. And he has also sold more than 15 million copies of his books worldwide, and his most recent book is called The 5 AM Club. It's all about how to own your morning and elevate your life. And this is a game changer book. I'm going to talk about it from the start, because I think everyone needs to learn about morning routine and mastering their morning routine. So Robin, so glad to see you, my friend. I miss you.

• 2:54Robin Sharma?

  I miss you too. You know, Lewis, you're one of the best. So it's great to see you again.

• 2:59Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it, man. I'm curious, I want to dive into morning routine at the start, because you're a huge advocate of a very specific morning routine. And, you know, morning routines are talked about a lot on success minded podcasts and high achiever podcasts these days. But you have a different approach to it. And yours is the 5 AM morning routine, which is the 2020 20 plan. And first, I want to ask if you can talk a little bit about what that plan is, why it's more powerful than other morning routines that people might talk about. And then I want to ask you a follow up question on it after that.

• 3:41Robin Sharma?

  You know, Lewis, I've been teaching morning routine for 24 years. I wrote a book years ago called The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, where I talked about the ritual of early awakening, and I talked about the 5 AM club. You know, the Spartan warriors, I learned a lot from them. These are human beings that were fierce and they're resolved to do amazing things. The Spartan warriors had nobility and honor. Look at the world we're in right now. We need to do what it takes to become stronger, as well as more compassionate. The Spartan warriors' mothers, you used to actually say to them, come back on your shield, come back victorious, or don't come back at all.

• 4:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:26Robin Sharma?

  And the Spartan warriors also used to say, sweat more in training, and you'll bleed less in war. And so, we live in a world, obviously, there's COVID. But I think this is a time of incredible unrest. We've got social unrest for all of the unjust injustice that is, has been out there for so many years. We've also got a financial crisis, which I believe is going to get much worse. And we've got, for sure, I'm no financial expert or an economist, but, I mean, if you look at, you look at all the quantitative easing happening right now, if you look at the low interest rates

• 5:11Robin Sharma?

  and all the encouragement that we buy more and spend more right now to pump and jumpstart the economy, we're just pushing an inevitable collapse further down the road, I believe. So I think we have, you know, we have the coronavirus and we have some early optimistic trials on the vaccine, which I'm very encouraged about, and then we've got all these other things, including an environmental catastrophe in the making. So, with that context, I think one of the most important things a human being can do is press the pause button each morning while the rest of the world is asleep, and ask yourself, "How can I fortify my mindset? How can I insulate my heart set?

• 5:56Robin Sharma?

  How can I optimize my health set? How can I escalate my soul set?" The four interior empires that I've introduced in the 5AM Club, so that when I walk out in the world, I'm creative, I'm productive, I'm compassionate, I radiate positivity, and I have resilience in case I get knocked down. And so I think one of the best ways you can do that is this 2020 20 formula that I've been teaching to the billionaires, the NBA stars, the film icons, and many of the most successful people on the planet for, as I say, 24 years.

• 6:35Robin Sharma?

  And very high level, Lewis, the 202020 formula is simply this. You get up at 5:00 a.m. And anyone can get up at 5:00 a.m. One of the gifts of a human being is neuroplasticity. We are built to change. So, please, I would encourage, you know, if we recite our excuses long enough, we actually believe they're true. We are built to change. We are built to grow. We are built to own our heroic nature. And so, according to University College London, if we do any practice or habit for 66 days, we reach a point of automaticity where it becomes easier to do that new habit than not do the new habit. Once you wire in the new habit, for the first 20 minutes, 5 to 5:20, you move.

• 7:20Robin Sharma?

  Because you can release BDNF, brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which promotes neurogenesis. It optimizes your brain. If you move first thing in the morning, you release serotonin, which makes you feel good. You release dopamine, which, you know, sets you up for inspiration. Second, we can get into it more deeply, but second pocket from 5:20 to 5:40 is reflect. You know, while the rest of the world is asleep, there's such quietude in the air. This is where you can pray. You can meditate. Write in a journal. Sit in quietude. So that you're focused, living your life and your priorities through the day. And then the final pocket of the 202020 formula that I talked about in the 5:00 a.m. club is grow. You'll never get old if you grow.

• 8:03Robin Sharma?

  You'll never become obsolete in your business, even in a time of great volatility, if you're growing. You'll always stay happy if you grow. So 20 minutes at the end of this victory hour, that's what I, what I call it. You spend some time listening to a podcast, like Lewis Howes on the School of Greatness, a man adored by the majority of humanity.

• 8:29Robin Sharma?

  You listen to an audio book, you read a book, you study your battle charts. Anyway, that's a really rough, general way to explain the 2020 formula that is currently helping millions of people navigate this hard time.

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  Does it matter the sequencing of 2020/20? Do you need to move first? Can you meditate first? Do you grow, you know, or is that a process that is proven scientifically?

• 8:58Robin Sharma?

  The process has been proven in the trenches of elite performance for a long time with my clients. And having said that, you know, I would say the 2020/20 formula is minimum viable morning routine. And you're a biohacker, I'm a biohacker, I'm a productivity hacker, I'm a life hacker. And so I would say do what's right for you. You know, it's like this whole field of personal mastery and leadership that we inhabit. I'm not one to say you must do this because we all have different learning types, we're all on different journeys. Someone might be right now upgrading their spirituality so they connect with their crusade

• 9:41Robin Sharma?

  and their higher power in this time of house arrest. Other people are creating their masterwork right now. So I think we have to find the routine, the morning routine that works best for us.

• 9:53Lewis Howes?

  What about people that say, you know what, I'm just a night person, you know, I like, I think at night, I work out at night, that's when I meditate, you know, I strategize the next day at night and I just, I've tried the morning, it just doesn't work for me. What would you say to that?

• 10:11Robin Sharma?

  I've had a lot of night owls.

• 10:13Lewis Howes?

  That's a great excuse, isn't it, to be a night owl?

• 10:16Robin Sharma?

  I've had a lot of great, a lot of night owls who have said, you know, I could never be a morning person. I've had a lot of people who've said, you know, grandma couldn't get up early, grandpa couldn't get up early, my parents couldn't get up early, I don't have early rising genes, you know. And what I would say is, if you don't read that book you've been resisting because you don't think it's for you, you might just miss your new favorite book. If you fall in love with your most closely cherished beliefs and you're not open to trying new things.

• 10:53Robin Sharma?

  You might miss your new favorite, trying your new favorite food. If you say, "Well, here's the kind of friends that I hang out with, and I'm not open to anyone else," you might miss that new friend or that new mentor who will transform the way you run your craft and live your life. And it's the same for the morning routine. The 5:00 AM Club, I mean, it's just, I've had so many people read the book, run the models in the book, live the message, and achieve what they never thought they'd achieve. And so what I would say to a night owl, or a lot of people say shift workers or whatever, I would say, "Give it a try. Don't just give it a try for a week, you know?

• 11:36Robin Sharma?

  Give it a try for three weeks, four weeks, the 66-day minimum, and then judge by your results."

• 11:43Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. I did this for, I was getting up at, uh, not that I was in competition, but I was getting up at 4:50 a.m., Robin, for a few months, a couple of years ago, and I was doing a 5:00 a.m. workout. And that's how I do it. So I was spending an hour in the morning working out at 5:00 a.m., then I was coming back and meditating and strategizing for the day. And it was extremely challenging for me for the first month. Um, but then it got better and better, and I started to make it a, you know, something that I was proud of, you know, I would call it beating the sun. I was like, "I'm gonna beat the sun tomorrow." And I'm gonna wake up, and the first 20 minutes are not fun, for at least a month.

• 12:26Lewis Howes?

  And maybe it's never fun in the first few minutes, because you could, it always feels more comfortable to sleep until your body really starts to find a routine and a rhythm that, "Okay, you're just going to bed by 8:00 or 9:00," and you start to appreciate that process in a different way. You might have loved being up late before, in its own way, but this is a new way to find appreciation. So I'm not in that space right now. My, you know, my girlfriend moved in, and I said, "You know what? I'm gonna allow myself to sleep in a little bit with her and experience something different." But I tell you what, I always feel more productive when I'm consistently waking up earlier, um, even if it's uncomfortable.

• 13:07Robin Sharma?

  Well, there's a line in the 5:00 AM Club, which is "All change is hard at first, messy in the middle, and gorgeous at the end."

• 13:13Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 13:15Robin Sharma?

  And so you were telling, I don't think you'd mind, but before we

• 13:18Lewis Howes?

  Go ahead.

• 13:19Robin Sharma?

  started recording, you, you were sharing how you're running more. And it's, it's like the first time you run. It's like the first time you ski. It's like the first time you fall in love. It's like the first time you play chess. I mean, we, we, we, we stumble before we walk and then on shaky legs, we embrace the new habit. And that's the very nature of personal transformation. I mean, every master was once a beginner, every professional was once an amateur. And so this, this, this idea that we need to be masters right out of the gate, that we need to, you know,

• 14:00Robin Sharma?

  get up to 5 a.m. and instantly it should be easy. Well, falling like a great relationship isn't easy. Building a world-class business that stands the test of time isn't easy. Uh, becoming a, a maestro or any kind of a virtuoso, it's, it's always a process. I mean, I know you, you interviewed Kobe. Well, I think what made Kobe Kobe was his intense, rigorous practice over many, many years.

• 14:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:28Robin Sharma?

  You know, he just out-practiced out everyone around him. And I think, you know, we live in a world of easy. We want the easy morning routine versus the morning routine that'll give us the greatest payoff. And I just, there's a reason Louis, that a lot of the great saints, sages, poets, military leaders, world changers got up at 5 a.m. and before the sun. I think it's the quietest time of the day. You, if you look at willpower researchers, we wake up with the most willpower when we first wake up. You have the most mental focus before the phenomena, attention residue takes over and cognitive bandwidth is high. And you know, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's been profound for me.

• 15:13Lewis Howes?

  How does someone be consistent in their discipline? You know, when most people will say, I want to do this for three months or six months. But then, uh, interruption, COVID, uh, uh, I got sick, uh, something, someone in the family needs, needs me. And I'm up all night. And what's the difference between what Kobe did for two decades in the NBA where he was disciplined? How is he able to stay motivated? How are the greatest able to stay motivated? Where others seem to lack the motivation and discipline to be consistent? Because anyone can do it for a few weeks, but how do you do it for years and decades? What's the difference between that?

• 15:53Robin Sharma?

  It's it's an excellent question and I and I would say first of all in COVID right now, may we give ourselves permission to be gentle with ourselves?

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:03Robin Sharma?

  I think, you know, even this whole idea that we must be machines in terms of our morning routine or even our pre-sleep rituals. This, these messages that are out there that we must be monomaniacally consistent and flawless human beings for us to wear our badges of honor in society as leading members of the cult of productivity. You know, I I'll just, I'll confess right here to you right now. I sure I'm no guru and I slip, I slip, you know, I I slip on the 5 a.m. club. I have had those, those evenings where I'd feel like a few extra chocolate croissants. And I I just think we must give ourselves permission to be humans.

• 16:46Robin Sharma?

  I think, you know, I was flying on a little plane from White River, South Africa to this game reserve. And the pilot let me fly the plane for a little while. And he kept on saying, you know, the winds are going to push you off course. And just, you know, keep, keep that, I think it was the altimeter or whatever, but just keep it in the center. And so the the currents, Louis would pull me off course. And then I just, you know, look at the dial and I'd come back. And I really believe, you know, that's, that's, that's how we live our days as human beings. I mean, I'll get up and sometimes there's a current, like you said, you know, a child who kept you up at night or it's the pandemic. So maybe you're worried or maybe you've lost a job.

• 17:31Robin Sharma?

  And so those currents will take us off course. And so our job is just to steer back on course each day. We're, we're, we're not perfect human beings.

• 17:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so it's okay to to sleep in once a week or to miss, miss the routine once in a while. It's not going to affect your overall, you know, results or process. Is that what I'm hearing?

• 17:55Robin Sharma?

  Yeah, I think, you know, if you want to commit to the 5am club, you want to commit to a world-class morning routine. Because the way you begin the day profoundly sets up the way your day unfolds. And this, again, this is not anecdotal. You get up in the morning and you run the 202020 formula that I explain in the book. You will create the flow state, you will release serotonin, you will release dopamine, you will release DNF. You will increase your metabolic rate, you will boost creativity, you will increase your willpower, you know, all those things. I mean, we want, we all have the ability as human beings to arrive at our own original form of greatness.

• 18:39Robin Sharma?

  We have not been schooled, we have not been taught, a lot of us have not been mentored on the mindsets, heartsets, routines, rituals that will create and allow us to live our personal genius. But, you know, if you look at the greatest women and men who have ever graced the planet, these were so-called ordinary people who just set up their lives in such a way that their native gifts saw the light of day.

• 19:11Lewis Howes?

  It's funny about how no one ever teaches this stuff unless you had a parent or an older sibling that's, that you were able to model and mimic like, oh, my, my dad gets up very early or my brother gets up and does his violin or practices sport, whatever it may be. And I want to be like that and I want to try that. It's, you know, we're not taught this in school.

• 19:32Robin Sharma?

  You know, Louis, I, um, when I was a kid, I wasn't believed in by a lot of people. I marched to my own drumbeat, I had a different way of seeing the world. I was very sensitive, I was very creative, very much a dreamer in many ways. And, uh, I didn't fit in with the cool crowd. And in grade five, I had a history teacher and her name was Cora Greenaway. And she was one of the first people in my life who believed in me. And we all meet a Cora Greenaway and may you and I and everyone listening from around the world

• 20:14Robin Sharma?

  or watching from around the world, may we be a Cora Greenaway to someone else. What I'm suggesting is...

• 20:21Robin Sharma?

  All it takes is that one person who coincidentally shows up in our life, and maybe it's a book, maybe it's a podcast episode, to introduce us to a new frame of reference and a new way of living. It might even be, that's why I love reading so much, you know, it's, it could be one idea in a 300-page book and that idea opens you up to a new galaxy of possibility and the hand that puts down the book is a fundamentally different hand. I mean, all it takes is one new insight to change the way you see the world.

• 20:54Lewis Howes?

  That's very true.

• 20:54Robin Sharma?

  And so, yeah, and that's why I'm such, on such a mission, and I've been on such a mission for 24 years, to remind people of who they're meant to be. Martin Luther King Jr. said, "If you have not discovered something you're willing to die for, you're not fit to live." And I, I believe we all need to find our mighty mission and our crusade. It doesn't have to be lofty, it could be delivering pizza by Uber Eats, it could be a, you know, a teacher, it could be a lawnmower, it could be a coder, it could be a gravedigger or a street sweeper. All, all labor has dignity, but, you know, there, there are no extra people on the planet and I think, you know, that's why I appreciate the work you do so much. I mean, we do have greatness within us

• 21:39Robin Sharma?

  and society has brainwashed us and heartwashed us into thinking that the great ones are cut from a different cloth. And it's not, it's not true, as, as a matter of fact, in the 5am Club, I say, you know, genius is less about genetics and, and much more about your daily habits.

• 21:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's true. That's, I mean, I could, that's, that resonates with me because growing up a kid that was, you know, dyslexic and still struggles with reading and writing today and was in the special needs classes, I never thought I would amount to much and I didn't have belief in myself until I found a spark and belief in myself. And then I started leaning into that gift, which was sports, and started to realize, oh, I have some vision and I have some coordination and I have... Some speed, even though I was never the fastest or strongest, I had some height. And so I would lean into this gift that was here and see if I enjoyed this gift and see if I liked this gift and see if this brings me joy. And it did, and I continued.

• 22:42Lewis Howes?

  And then I built routines and habits around that gift and kept pursuing it until, as far as I could pursue it, until it was no longer a dream or until the gift was no longer there. Until I wanted to pursue other things. And I think, you know, even if whoever's listening or watching, even if you didn't think you were talented or smart enough at some point, there's something inside of you that is talent. You've just got to keep trying things and see what brings you that joy and that uniqueness. At least that's what I would say.

• 23:14Robin Sharma?

  Well, you know, just to hitchhike off of that, Louis, I think no one will believe in you until you believe in you. And, you know, as I'm writing this new book I'm writing, I've been, I've been looking at people like J.K. Rowling, for example. I mean, everyone laughed at Harry Potter. Oh, no one will ever read this. And she believed in this character about a child wizard who, who had all of these adventures. And she was a single mother and she was suffering and she had no money. And she wrote, the whole idea for the Harry Potter concept came to her on a, on a delayed train ride.

• 23:56Robin Sharma?

  And then, I believe in Edinburgh, she wrote the first Harry Potter and it was rejected. And we all know this, but like, you know, just a gentle, respectful, loving reminder for everyone who's, who's tuning in here, which is every visionary is initially ridiculed before they're revered. And look at Jonas Salk. Look at Elon Musk right now. I mean, look at Shakespeare, look at Oprah, look at...

• 24:24Robin Sharma?

  Martin Luther King Jr., look at Nelson Mandela, look at Marie Curie, look at Edison and Einstein, look at Galileo. These were all ordinary people who followed their joy, who came up with a vision. And the very nature of a great vision means you're going to disrupt the status quo. So you're going to scare people. I mean, if your idea is really good for that new business or that new relationship or that new fitness routine or morning routine, it's going to scare people who are card-carrying members of the status quo. And so it's much easier to shoot the messenger than to embrace the message.

• 25:08Robin Sharma?

  And so it's much easier. It's much easier. I mean, I'll tell you completely candidly. I spent four years writing The 5:00 AM Club. I put my heart and my soul in the book. The models and the art that was done by this amazing artist and every line I wanted calibrated. And, you know, people didn't understand what I was trying to do. And when the book first came out, I looked at the Amazon reviews and they were terrible.

• 25:38Lewis Howes?

  Really? Why?

• 25:43Robin Sharma?

  Well, and I just want to say now it's one of the best-selling books in the world. And it's almost as if the tide shifted once enough people read it. And the narrative changed. It was the most interesting thing. But I've actually, that really hurt when the book came out. It's like holding your baby out into the world. And, you know, everyone's looking at it going, you know, just want to tell you, your baby is really

• 26:11Lewis Howes?

  Ugly.

• 26:12Robin Sharma?

  Not so pleasant to look at. And, you know, what I would say is J.K. Rowling, again, she said, "For some to love you, some must loathe you." I would say also Bob Dylan, "Don't criticize what you don't understand."

• 26:31Robin Sharma?

  And so if you do anything that's disruptive, and also if you put, if you put out work that challenges people to leave their comfort zone, to wake up to their genius, if you, if you challenge people to be more loving, to stand for love on a planet that has too much hate, if you challenge people to get up at 5am, to spend one hour working on your mentality, purifying any toxicity within your heart set, upgrading your health and longevity, mining your spirituality in a world of selfies and dancing cat videos and

• 27:17Robin Sharma?

  a lot of superficiality and a culture of comparison, you're gonna, you know, I mean, it's easier for people to shoot you down versus to embrace the message.

• 27:32Lewis Howes?

  Does, when we're on unusual times right now, does the 5am routine, uh, in the 202020 shift? If things are, there's an excuse, I'm tired, and then there's a shift in the world. Does the 5am club shift at this time? Do people say, you know what, let me really take it easy for a few months? Or is that an excuse for too long to get back into your vision?

• 28:06Robin Sharma?

  I think that's a profound question, and I would say trust your instinct. There are times, for example, as an artist, when I'm writing and it's flowing, and I just know this, trust your natural cycles because your higher power, call it your instinct, call it your intuition, call it your artistry, knows what it's doing. So there are times to be productive and there are times to rest. Now, I very much believe in the 5 AM Club and the 202020 formula. I very much believe that it will create a pharmacy of mastery within your brain. It's been proven by science. You know, even just the simple idea of starting your day with some sweaty exercise.

• 28:51Robin Sharma?

  Why sweaty exercises? Because sweat reduce, when you sweat, it'll release the BDNF, which John Rady at Harvard calls "mirror grow for the brain." But just that idea of exercising first thing in the morning will help you become more resilient, peaceful, strong during the day. So, yes, do your morning routine. Yes, run the 202020 formula and then judge by results. Having said that,

• 29:20Robin Sharma?

  if you've been up at 3:00 in the morning

• 29:24Robin Sharma?

  because you've lost your job,

• 29:27Robin Sharma?

  because you're just picking up on the energy of the world right now where there's so much fear, you're dealing with COVID or you have a family member you've lost as a result of the pandemic.

• 29:42Robin Sharma?

  Self-love, personal care requires that you rest,

• 29:49Robin Sharma?

  recover and do what you need to do. And I think, you know, that's one of the things, I say this with great respect, but when I read the books or see people saying, "You must be like a robot and follow a morning routine or a nightly ritual or whatever your best habits are." I believe there must be room for the hard seasons of life. And, you know, when my heart has been broken, when I've gone through my periods of suffering.

• 30:25Robin Sharma?

  I haven't been as disciplined. I haven't been as rigorous. I've had the inopportune pizza night.

• 30:35Robin Sharma?

  You know, and here's what I would also say is my ego, because a bad day for the ego is a great day for the soul. My ego says, Robin, you're not being productive. You're not on your A game. You're not a warrior. But you know what I've realized? I might not be creatively productive according to the definition of society during those cycles or seasons of suffering. But am I not spiritually productive? Am I not emotionally productive? I mean, when does a human being crack the shell of the ego that covers their hearts? And learns the human virtues?

• 31:21Robin Sharma?

  I mean, Nelson Mandela learned how to be Nelson Mandela in his Robin Island season.

• 31:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Robin Sharma?

  And so I think we learn honesty and compassion and vulnerability and creativity when things are falling apart, not when they're not in the seasons of sunshine.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I I look at life in terms of sports analogies. And so for me, there's four seasons in, you know, I guess the seasons of the year, but then also in sports, there's there's really kind of four seasons as well. There's the preseason to prepare you for the season. And then there's the playoff season, which is where you're hustling, you're all in, you're you're only thinking about one thing and you're focused on that energy and you're you're not burning the candle on both ends, but you're you're all in on that thing and less on everything else. And then there's the postseason where, okay, the championship is done or that season is done.

• 32:22Lewis Howes?

  And now we have the postseason, the time to reflect, the time to reevaluate our goals, our life, what worked this last season, what didn't work. Do I need to tweak my routine? Do I need to, you know, be in different relationships? Who do I need to bring into my circle? What do I need to eliminate in my circle? So I look at life in terms of, you know, sports seasons. Um, just because that's how I've lived my life. But I think if, and if we can, we can do that, then you're going to have time to rest and reflect. And you're going to have a balance in that kind of seasonal progression of life, where it doesn't have to be robotic every single day, you know, for 20 years or the rest of your life. So at least that's the way I look at it.

• 33:04Robin Sharma?

  You know, I think, I think rest is a secret weapon. There, there's a line in the 5M Club, which is rest is not a luxury, it's a necessity. One of my favorite authors is Haruki Murakami, the great Japanese novelist. And he said, when I'm not writing the book, I'm writing the book. I mean, you're an author. But it, it's not a, any creative, any productive. We, we beat ourselves up, or maybe it's just me, but we beat ourselves up if we're not doing. But how can you calibrate world-class doing if you don't make the time for being?

• 33:45Robin Sharma?

  And so, and so those times where, you know, nature or our instinct or our inner artist says, these are times to pull back from the world and sunbathe and read the classics and write in a journal and have four-hour meals with the people we love and travel when it used to be safe to travel. Those are not times to feel guilty. John Lennon said, "Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time."

• 34:17Robin Sharma?

  And so what I've realized is the greatest productives, the greatest artists, the greatest thinkers, the greatest heroes, they were cool with rest and recovery. They understood that elite performance.

• 34:35Robin Sharma?

  It's not like a marathon, it's more like a sprint. And the Energy Project, to give credit where it's due, they've evangelized this when they talk about energy. It's the greatest productives work in sprints versus marathons. And so all I'm saying is, you're right. Life is a series of seasons and enjoy the seasons. And that's what's going to actually allow you to play the game for a long time, but also do your greatest work. I mean, my instinct now is, I'm about three weeks away from submitting this manuscript on the new book. And my instinct is get into another book. And this morning, I realized, I'm going to take next year.

• 35:20Robin Sharma?

  I'm going to have great conversations. I'm going to travel, hopefully it'll be safe to travel. I'm going to enjoy the fruits of my labor and enjoy life. And that's going to be incubation for the next book.

• 35:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I think that's key because I started about a year, year and a half ago, I started saying, okay, I'm going to write my, I'm going to start working on my next book. And about overcoming self doubt. Because I think what you said in the beginning of this interview is, if people can take away one thing from this interview is what you said in the beginning, where it doesn't matter if the world believes in you. If you have billions of people that say, you're the greatest, you can do it. If you don't believe that you're capable, you'll never be able to live up to that potential or achieve those goals. And the opposite, if the world is saying, you are crazy, you can't do it, this is a dumb idea, you'll never be enough, you suck, it doesn't matter.

• 36:15Lewis Howes?

  Because if you firmly believe, it only takes one. It only takes one either way. And most people don't understand that self doubt is the killer of dreams. And if they can figure out how to eliminate the noise from the outside, but most importantly, eliminate the noise of the inside that keeps them from their dreams, then they can achieve them if they learn that process. And I was a year and a half ago saying, okay, I'm going to start working on my next book project. Then a few things came up in my life. You met me in a time, which I acknowledge you in a deep way, because you met me in a time where I was going through some challenges with. A breakup and also just people, whatever, gossiping about me, whether they knew what

• 37:00Lewis Howes?

  happened or not. And I was like, wow, I thought I knew my friends. And I started to quickly know my friends after these few months of challenge. And I was really grateful for the wisdom you gave me. You said, you know, this is a blessing. It's a blessing for the ego to go through this type of thing because it allows you to have more compassion, more humility, everything you've been saying in this interview. It allows you to purge relationships in your life and purge ideas, thoughts, processes that maybe don't work for you anymore. I was planning to start writing this book a year and a half ago. And I started working on the proposal, but something wasn't clicking. And I was like, okay, well, this is an excuse. And I'm not going to allow writer's block to hold me back. I'm going to keep going

• 37:45Lewis Howes?

  through this. So I kept doing it every single month, working on the proposal, but still didn't feel, I didn't feel excited about it. I didn't feel proud of it. Something was off. And then I felt guilty because I was like, huh, I'm not putting it out when I said I wanted to put it out. I'm not completing it when I said I wanted to do it. But there was a lot happening in my personal life as well. And I said, you know what, it's gonna, it's gonna come when it's ready. And I'm not going to put pressure on myself anymore. In this kind of year and a half plus season of not doing anything quote unquote, has actually been a lot of insight, reflecting, research. And I just now, in the last couple of weeks, have dived back into the process because I feel like, wow, I've actually gathered

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  so much data from the last year and a half of not working on it, that I feel like I have the information I need now to move forward. So I think this time of reflection can always be powerful. I call it strategic messing around, where you're like playing more, you're doing other activities, and things are coming to you in a different way.

• 38:51Robin Sharma?

  You know, I think Lewis, instinct is 100 times wiser than the intellect.

• 39:01Robin Sharma?

  Our intellect, right? Like, most people, we're running our lives from our intellect. But the intellect is just the sum total of what society has told us is possible. Intellect. That's just what's been done before. That's what the experts tell us is possible. Well, look at Bannister and the four-minute mile. No, a human being, if a human being runs a mile in under four minutes-

• 39:23Lewis Howes?

  He'll die.

• 39:24Robin Sharma?

  She or she is gonna blow up. But in the weeks and months afterwards, people started doing it. And then you just, you talk about Elon Musk and what he's doing, you look at the great scientists, you look at Galileo, who said, you know, the Earth is round. And it just goes on and on. And I think, any great creator, any hero, any history maker, any human being who wants to live life fully, completely, spiritually, creatively, we've got to learn how to trust the silent whispers of our instinct over the chattering voices of our intellect.

• 40:09Robin Sharma?

  And, you know, when you were talking about your book on overcoming self-doubt, criticism is a symptom of greatness. You know you are making traction around your creative ambitions when the cynics, critics, naysayers come out to play. That's when you know you're doing something great. I mean, I'm really big into documentaries, and I watched a recent one on Miles Davis. And Miles Davis, you know, a legendary trumpet player, as you know so well, and he suffered, you know, a challenging childhood.

• 40:49Robin Sharma?

  He came from a fairly well-off family, but he suffered from a lot of racism. And then he started playing trumpet, and he became really good at it, and he played with his heroes, eventually Duke Ellington and Charlie Parker, I believe. And then, like a lot of people, they start playing like they're heroes, but it wasn't until he said, "I've mastered the game, so now I can destroy the game."

• 41:19Robin Sharma?

  What did Picasso say? First master the rules so you can break the rules. And so Charlie Parker, technically, you know, world-class at playing the trumpet according to the traditional rules. But his instinct said, "This isn't where I want to go. I want to, I want to go blue ocean. I want to go green, green field. I want to do what no one else has done. And this is where my, my creativity, my instinct is leading me." And so he got into his late 60s, Bitches Brew album,

• 41:57Robin Sharma?

  where he experimented with cadences and styles and rhythms that no one had ever heard before. And in the documentary, his son said, "You know, Dad never kept his old albums at home." And the documentarians said, "Why not?" And he said, "Because he wasn't interested in what he'd done before. He was only interested, he was only interested in where he was going." He told John McLaughlin, the guitar player who played with him. He said, "In this session, I want you to play as if you don't know how to play guitar."

• 42:41Robin Sharma?

  So all I'm saying is, you know, you're right. And we can talk about the tactics, but living your truest life as an artist, as a productive, as an entrepreneur, as a leader, as a, someone trying to make the world better, it begins with you doing the interior work. And that's why the 5am Club is so powerful. Because you're giving yourself an hour while everyone else is asleep. The, the time of the lowest digital distraction, but the time of the least interruption, the time of the, it's the time of greatest quietude. And you're up at 4:15 or 4:30 or 5am, and you have one hour to pray,

• 43:23Robin Sharma?

  to meditate, to visualize, to read the classics of the great women and men of the world, who all will say and reinforce within our mindsets and heartsets, "Trust your instinct."

• 43:36Robin Sharma?

  Learn to love yourself. Be too, do not be too much in the world and of the crowd. So that you learn to trust your values, your instincts, and take your craft and your life where you want to take it versus where society wants you to take it. And if you can start doing that through meditation, journaling, verbalization, visualization, reading, mentorship, et cetera, then you're, you're an army of one against the world. And I think that's how that great heroes roll.

• 44:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. I'm loving this. And do you think there are, from all the, the great leaders you've talked to of this moment, right now? The billionaires, the, the CEO leaders, the financially abundant leaders to high performers? Are those successful and wealthy people doing anything different than unsuccessful and wealthy people in this moment?

• 44:41Robin Sharma?

  Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think, um, let, let me just, if I may, I've worked with a lot of super wealthy people. And one thing I want to emphasize is there are a lot of extremely wealthy people and money is all they have. And so I believe there are multiple forms of wealth. As a matter of fact, I do believe that once you pass a certain threshold of net worth and, and annual income, you actually add complexity to your life, which destroys happiness.

• 45:19Lewis Howes?

  Yep. You have to learn to be happy in spite of the wealth you create.

• 45:25Robin Sharma?

  The happiest cohort I have ever met in my life. Our ski instructors, I'm a level one ski instructor, which means I barely passed the grade, but it was, it was a dream of mine. So I, you know, I went and I got it and I taught little kids to ski at minimum wage for a year. And it was one of, you know, one of the great victories of my life. But the point I'm trying to make is they would always say, we're not rich, we don't have a lot of money, but we're really rich.

• 45:53Robin Sharma?

  They were just happy, like they're out in the mountain, they were eating the food they wanted, they were turning people on to skiing and they were doing what they love to do. And so I just wanted to make that point, which is, you know, I've worked with a lot of billionaires, a lot of the celebrities that people would know about instantly. And that, you know, you probably know, I, as you know, I, I used to do the Titan Summit, I've had a lot of the superstars on my stage. But generally speaking, you know, what's the expression, mo, mo money? Mo props.

• 46:25Robin Sharma?

  And so I, I just, you know, Jim Carrey said it well, he said, be careful what you want because yeah. So, um, but the people I work with, right now, what they're doing is they are leaning out there, a lot of them are leaning out their businesses and looking for efficiencies.

• 46:41Robin Sharma?

  So it's a great time to rework your business if you're an entrepreneur and just ask yourself, what is your biggest, what is the single greatest opportunity right now for you to distribute astonishing value to your marketplace? And then build all your resources around that singular, singular opportunity. I mean, great companies die, not because they don't have enough good opportunities, but because they're chasing too many shiny toys. So that's what my clients are doing. Another thing they're doing is they're upgrading their health, they are biohacking, they're also upgrading their spiritual spirituality by meditation, by prayer, by journaling, by working with spiritual counselors. I mean,

• 47:25Robin Sharma?

  I think this is, everyone's saying, oh, it's a once in a generation pandemic. I think it's a once in a generation opportunity for us to look within and heal our hearts, develop ourselves and reconnect with who we're meant to be. The people I'm working with are also

• 47:43Robin Sharma?

  A lot of them are reconnecting with their families, Louis. I think a lot of industry titans are industry titans because they've lost the connection with their families.

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 47:54Robin Sharma?

  And so a lot of people I work with and mentor, it's like, you know, this forced quietude of the pandemic has allowed me to be a better father or mother and reconnect with my kids or my or my partner or even, you know, I call it the great reset, even reconnecting with your priorities. You know, you look at some of the trends like ruralization right now. People are leaving cities, moving out to the countries. People are working at home. So, I mean, this great upheaval will lead to much brighter days once we get through the mess.

• 48:27Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 48:29Lewis Howes?

  Should we be focusing on the future or the present? You know, in order to be in flow state, we need to be in the present, obviously. In our morning routine, are we focusing on this moment, this day, or our dreams and aspirations of the future? How do we navigate that of future-present thinking?

• 48:53Robin Sharma?

  What a great question. I don't think I've ever been asked it. What I would say is be like, be like, uh, uh, you're climbing Mount Everest because you really are climbing your own private Mount Everest. Keep one eye on the summit, one eye on the climb. So your morning routine is the preparation for you to be a warrior poet during the day. But then, when you're living your day, you know, if you're, if you're, let's say, writing your book or working on your code or then you want to enter flow state. We can talk about how to orchestrate your environment so you enter flow state. And one of the ways is you leave your phone in another room because you can change the world where you play with your devices. You don't get to do both.

• 49:39Robin Sharma?

  So you, you live your day because your days are your life in miniature. You live your day fully in flow state and with fiery presence because that's all we have. You, you, you live your day because your presence on your work allows you to birth your genius on your work or be with your family. But you also want to be strategic.

• 50:06Robin Sharma?

  Because what's the point of climbing a mountain to realize you were in flow state, climbing the wrong ones?

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 50:13Robin Sharma?

  And to make it tactical in a time of crises,

• 50:20Robin Sharma?

  I would say, hope for the best and plan for the best and prepare for the worst. I would say, I'm someone who's been saying, you know, sell your TV and don't watch the news for a quarter of a century, you know? And now I'm starting to watch the news, but I think you want to do it very intentionally and very deliberately.

• 50:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:40Robin Sharma?

  So you see what's coming, and then you can plan for it. And if you're an entrepreneur, you can battle proof your business for what's coming. And we can talk about the advice I'm giving to my entrepreneurial clients, but you can, you want to be strategic, you want to plan for what's coming, you want to protect your family for what's coming.

• 51:05Robin Sharma?

  And yet, at the same time, you want to find ways to see the benefits that crisis brings. Because suffering can breed great artistry. Calamity can breed great creativity. Nietzsche said, chaos gives birth to dancing stars. I've done my greatest healing when I've been down on my knees.

• 51:27Lewis Howes?

  Right. That's when you're the most, you have to be the most present when you're suffering the most. It forces you to be in the moment of that pain, right?

• 51:38Robin Sharma?

  Well, when the pain, exactly, when the pain is in your body.

• 51:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's all you think about.

• 51:43Robin Sharma?

  You know, I don't get how people go, oh, you know, I was heartbroken, or I was going through a divorce, or I was going through a bankruptcy or a job loss, so, you know, I just kept busy and I was out there having fun with my friends. Like, I'm not judging, and I understand we have different types, but for me, when I'm in pain, I'm like an animal. I need to go to the forest and lick my wounds. You know, I need to lick my wounds, and then, once my wounds have healed...

• 52:12Robin Sharma?

  I go back into the world and I can, you know, do the stuff that you do in the world.

• 52:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and you may be healing for, you know, a year or two after something, a heartbreak, but you may be productive half the time and still need to heal a little bit here and there. So you don't have to always be in the woods for years when you heal. But I understand that for sure. What are, what, we talked about this in the, actually, I want to ask you, you mentioned the, how to bulletproof businesses and the, some of the advice. Can you touch on that a little bit of what you're sharing with, with, you know, leaders on how to bulletproof their business and protect themselves during this time for making the most out of this opportunity?

• 52:55Robin Sharma?

  Well, I think for, I mean, this is the time that real leaders come out to play. I mean, anyone can be a leader in the sunshine, but when everything's falling apart. One of the books I've read in, in lockdown is The Splendid and the Vile. And it's all about how Winston Churchill became Winston Churchill. And Lewis Winston Churchill became Winston Churchill, May 10th, 1941, I believe, when he became the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

• 53:28Robin Sharma?

  And he was thrust into greatness. And so what I'm trying to suggest is hard times look bad to the ego, but it's in the, it's in the difficult times that we get to see what we're made of. I believe there is a, a mystical orchestration of life. Nature knows what she's doing. And so I think this is all happening for a reason. And I think when we experience the storms of our lives, I don't think they happen at random times. And so what I'm, what I would say to leaders and entrepreneurs is number one, there's always room at the top. Look, look at Peloton right now.

• 54:12Robin Sharma?

  Peloton is experiencing explosive growth.

• 54:16Lewis Howes?

  It's bloating.

• 54:18Robin Sharma?

  And there are a lot of other, you know, look at online, uh, online media companies. Look at the people in our field who saw a lot of this, who have planned for things falling apart. So have built digital businesses and digital courses. And it just goes on and on. So what I'm saying is you want to as quickly as possible, ask yourself, how long will this take? Where will this go? I actually think this is going to be a few years. I don't mean to be in any way negative, but I want to be of service. You know, if you look at what's going on, I think there's the health crisis and the pandemic. And then there will be the, the hunger crisis, uh, which there is one now, but it's, there's going to be all the suffering from the fallout.

• 55:03Robin Sharma?

  And that's going to go on for a while. And so I would say, if you were asking me for some entrepreneurial advice, it would be number one, ask yourself, what value can you give to the marketplace? That your industry peers are not giving. Number two, I would, I would also say right now, a lot of peers in the industry are getting knocked out of the game. Whatever the industry is, they're, they're scared, they're exhausted, they're contracting. So for someone who is feeling strong, again, the way you feel on the inside is going to determine the way you feel on the outside. That's why morning routine and the five AM club, that's why nutrition, that's why biohacking, that's why learning, that's why your daily habits are so incredibly important.

• 55:46Robin Sharma?

  If you don't have any confidence right now, you're not going to be able to build a, build your business. But ask yourself, what value can I push to the marketplace that no one else is doing? I would also ask, um, what, where can I go costs and lean out the business right now? Because in good times, we fall in love with growth. And when we fall in love with growth, sometimes, you know, we, we build a highly complex business. Where all we need is a nimble little business that is actually more agile. Few other things I would say is, uh, clean out digital distraction right now. In the five AM club, I talked about your Menlo Park.

• 56:28Robin Sharma?

  Edison used to have a Menlo Park at the top of the hill in New Jersey, where he and his co, his teammates would go to get away from the world. And I think right now where we want to check the news, we want to connect with our friends digitally. We want to do all those things. It's very easy to fall into the dopamine loop where we become addicted to distraction and checking our notifications. And when that happens, you will not get into the flow state, which will allow you to do the work that will allow you to lead the field. You know, we're at war. We're at war and it's not only against the coronavirus. We're at war against distraction. We're at war against digital interruption.

• 57:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:12Robin Sharma?

  It's a war, it's a war because we must protect our genius. Because the world will be less of a place if we do not bring our light, our love, our genius to it.

• 57:23Lewis Howes?

  I believe that. Man. And in the first interview, we talked, we talked a little bit about self doubt. And I wanted to bring it, bring it up and go a little deeper than that because we talked about it here as well. I'm curious, is there a difference between building self-confidence and eliminating self doubt?

• 57:42Robin Sharma?

  I don't know. I'll have to think about that. What I would, what I would say is, I'm going to be very contrarian here. You know, so many people are talking about mindset and you know this from our first interview. You know, it's like mindset is everything. It's like if you only build a PMA, positive mental attitude, the world will be okay. Well then, if that was the case, I'm going to actually be a little bit dramatic. And I would say that's the big lie of positive thinking. Now, does positive thinking not work? It does work. But a positive mindset without a purified heart set leads to an empty victory.

• 58:23Robin Sharma?

  So what I would say on your question about self doubt and what we try to do is we try to remove, we try to build confidence. Psychologically, we meditate, we visualize, and we read the books, and we watch the podcast.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  With our intellect, yeah.

• 58:40Robin Sharma?

  With our intellect. But as human beings, we are these four interior empires, empires I teach in the 5M Club. It's not just mindset. It is our psychology, but it's also our emotionality, our heart set. And then it's our third interior empire, our health set, our physiology. And then it's the fourth interior empire that I wish more people were talking about, because it's not weak, it's brave. Our fourth interior empire, our spirituality. So what I would say, when you use your morning routine, or your nightly ritual, or spend some time every day, working on your four interior empires,

• 59:22Robin Sharma?

  that's when you release your ego. And when you release your ego, when there's no more darkness, all there is is light.

• 59:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:33Robin Sharma?

  And that, that mean, that's who we are. Our, our truest nature is pure creativity, vitality, love, heroism, compassion for other people, honor and honesty. So what I would say is the missing link in self-confidence and turning down self-doubt is, read the positive books, listen to positive thinking gurus, and get your psychology to world class, because your daily behavior does follow your deepest beliefs, no question. But then do something that not a lot of people on the planet are doing, which is do your heart set work,

• 1:00:15Robin Sharma?

  which is, if you've got anger, sorrow, resentment, shame, guilt, repressed within your subconscious, within your heart set, well then you're at war, because you've got a positive mindset, but a toxic heart set. So doing that... Emotional healing is the game changer. Then you get into health set, massage, you release the toxicity from massage, Reiki, acupuncture, etc., sweat lodges, etc. And then you do the soul set work where you connect to your higher power, your inner hero. You do those four things, you start to dissolve self doubt.

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Can we achieve great things with pain and resentment and anger living inside of us?

• 1:01:05Robin Sharma?

  Well, it depends on what you define as great things. I think a lot of great companies have been created by very damaged people.

• 1:01:20Lewis Howes?

  And great music, great art.

• 1:01:23Robin Sharma?

  Well, for sure. I mean, I was once on an airplane from New York, I believe New York to Paris, sitting next to an artist and he said, you know, I look for romantic partners who break my heart.

• 1:01:37Lewis Howes?

  He writes great songs.

• 1:01:40Robin Sharma?

  I go, why do you do that? He goes, because when I'm intimate with suffering, I do my greatest song, my greatest art. So, but what I would say is, in many ways, a lot of the great companies have been created by damaged people. And here's the point I'm trying to make, they were never enough for mommy or daddy. So they were relentless and because they were relentless and never took no for an answer and just, you know, incredible drivers, they built these great companies. But is that a great company?

• 1:02:14Robin Sharma?

  You see what I'm saying? So if we want a great world, I think a great world is built from an intention of love. And this is not weak, because I think the greatest artists, they were not coming from fear, if not being a, the greatest artists, industry titans, world builders. I don't think they were building from a place of inferiority, insecurity and not enoughness. I think the great masterpieces, the great movements.

• 1:02:49Robin Sharma?

  We're born of love. Mother Teresa worked from love.

• 1:02:55Robin Sharma?

  Mahatma Gandhi died with less than ten possessions. Why? He didn't care about those things. He reached a level of spiritual maturity

• 1:03:04Robin Sharma?

  where that wasn't the game he played. He played a completely different game. It was, "How can I bring love into the world?" And I think our greatest teachers are teachers of love. And I think if you can be an entrepreneur but operate from trying to serve the world and help the world and distribute awesome value to the world that lifts people's lives. If you're a painter who works from love because you want to bring joy to people through your craft. If you're a schoolteacher or a world leader who works from love and service and honor because you want to be a humble servant to humanity and you know that life is short ultimately. I think that's when you do amazing things.

• 1:03:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. That's beautiful. And why do you think people make excuses of their past, of the presence? Why do you think it's human nature to make excuses? Because it seems like what unsuccessful people do better than everyone else is they make a lot of great excuses. Whereas the successful people who are happier, healthier, achieving more in their genius are making less excuses. Why do we do this in general?

• 1:04:14Robin Sharma?

  Because we're human.

• 1:04:16Lewis Howes?

  Why is it human nature to make some excuses?

• 1:04:20Robin Sharma?

  Because, because human nature is, we're flawed. I mean, I make, I'll, I'll say right now, I make excuses too. I just make a lot less excuses than I did last year.

• 1:04:32Robin Sharma?

  I mean, it's, it's a journey. It's, it's, I think we all make excuses. And if you don't, you know, and the people who don't think they're making excuses are not aware of the excuses that everyone around them sees them making. So, but why do we do it? Because we are disconnected with who we truly are. You know, I think Joseph Campbell's hero story explains so much. And if you look at The Matrix and The Alchemist and Jonathan Livingston Seagal, one of my favorite books, and a lot of the great works, in one way or another, they're talking about the hero's story. The hero is born in full blazing glory and in full intimacy with their genius. The hero goes out into the world and the world,

• 1:05:16Robin Sharma?

  remember Morpheus in that old movie, The Matrix? Pulls the wool over their eyes. The hero then starts to be programmed, brainwashed, heartwashed. We get the messaging of our well-intentioned parents, but they give us their fears. Then we go to school. You can't be an astronaut, be practical. And then we get the media and we get our peers. And so the whole of society works its seduction and hypnosis on us. And then we wake up at 25, 35, 65, 105. Mere figments of who we're meant to be. And then we come up with this excuse. Yeah, but that's easy for Lewis Howes to do. That's easy for you to do, Robin.

• 1:06:00Robin Sharma?

  It's easy for Muhammad Ali or Kobe or Oprah or whoever it is. Because we have created a perceptual filter, but not only perceptual filter, an emotional mask. You know, one of your books, like, I think it was The Mask of Masculinity. We don't only put masks over our psychology, we put it over our emotionality, our physicality and our spirituality. And then we look through the masks so many times, we believe the stories, our lies are telling us our truth. And we would take a bullet.

• 1:06:41Robin Sharma?

  For our story, because it is so incredibly scary to leave the foundations we believe are true. And that's why personal mastery is one of the... It's not weak. You know, people roll the eyes, "Oh, personal mastery, personal development, personal leadership." It's the most heroic thing you can do, because look how brave it takes for you to look in the mirror and leave the foundations you've built your entire life on and go blue ocean. And that's why the mystics talk about the Dark Night of the Soul. Because when you think it's all falling apart, that's when you're really waking up.

• 1:07:21Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Isn't it funny that every time there is a breakdown, a break in the body, a breakup in a relationship, a near-death experience in a family member or your life, that's when you open your eyes and say, "Oh, this hurts." You know, something isn't working. Let me reevaluate what's not working and try to find the answer to what the truth is. Because the way I've been living has been a lie, in some way, shape, or form. It always seems to have... It always seems to take some major breakdown for us to wake up. Why? Why can't we just say, "You know what? Life is good, but it's not great.

• 1:08:05Lewis Howes?

  Why can't we just wake up when it's good?"

• 1:08:08Robin Sharma?

  Well, you know, I feel like we're just hanging out, you know? And I love it, because I think, you know, these are... They're very meaningful questions to me, and I... In many ways, this is my fuel. This is the conversation that brings me alive. Richard Bach once said, "What the caterpillar thinks is the end of the world, the master knows is the butterfly." And I think this is very relevant for what we're going through right now. My heart hurts for the people who have died as a result of the turmoil on the planet right now.

• 1:08:49Robin Sharma?

  And I want to do anything I can do to be of service and helpful. Having said that, perspective is powerful as well. Our human society has gone through many upheavals. We've gone through plagues. We've gone through depressions. And I believe upheaval and volatility is necessary for the long-term survival of our species. I walk in a forest not too far from my home and there's a sign that says "natural disturbances", and it said "from time to time, nature sends natural disturbances to this forest",

• 1:09:29Robin Sharma?

  like windstorms, fires, and insect, whatever the word is, I guess it's invasions.

• 1:09:39Robin Sharma?

  When that happens, large tracts of this forest are knocked out.

• 1:09:45Robin Sharma?

  But this is necessary for the long-term survival of the forest. Well, nature is nature, and we're all part of nature, and the planet is part of nature. And I believe what's happening on the planet now is absolutely necessary for the long-term survival of our species and the planet. There is a town in India that finally sees the Himalayas after 10 years, because the smog is gone because of what's going on.

• 1:10:11Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:10:12Robin Sharma?

  So it looks really bad, and it is really bad. We must acknowledge how we feel versus repress how we feel, because that just breeds more toxicity. But let's also remember, you know, nature knows what it's doing, and we are being taken to a better place. And so, to answer your question head-on, I think pain and suffering's got a bad rap in society. You know, I think the greatest spiritual lesson of all spiritual lessons is, "How may I find peace in the middle of a war zone?"

• 1:10:47Robin Sharma?

  You know, the greatest of all spiritual lessons is letting go. It's to find comfort amidst acute discomfort. So what I try to do is, as things fall apart, go within, build a stronger inner core that is not so attached to what's going on in the world. Because if you're not deriving your peace, joy, power, strength, creativity, from outside of you, you're getting it from within you, which is where the masters play. The only reason something on the outside, whether it's... Philosophical relationship, or this, or that, is because we are attached to what's on the outside, which is actually a very vulnerable place to be.

• 1:11:33Lewis Howes?

  So we shouldn't attach ourselves to outside things, but more inside things?

• 1:11:37Robin Sharma?

  If you want to be peaceful, and let's go deeper, you want to be free, you absolutely must find your axis of power from within. Then, then people will say, well, Robin, are you saying I shouldn't build a billion-dollar business? Are you saying I shouldn't write the next bestseller? Are you saying I shouldn't change the world? Are you saying I shouldn't have a beautiful home, or whatever my heart's desires are? No. You have those desires because your heart wants those desires. Honor them. But don't need them. Don't need them. It's like when you see people who completely fall apart when they lose something on the outside. I say this with deep respect, but it's, they were very attached

• 1:12:23Robin Sharma?

  to what was on the outside. I mean, you know, I read a lot of Marcus Aurelius in my mornings, and he just reminds me about the shortness of life. Like, if I get tomorrow, I'm a lucky man, Louis. I don't know, I could be knocked out of the game tomorrow. I could, I could get COVID tomorrow. And end up on a ventilator and I could die. So I try to keep my mortality very front and center for me. And I, it's not a platitude, it's not something I'm just saying here. I mean, it is, when I say goodbye to my kids in the morning, I hug them and I kiss them because I don't know if I'll be around tomorrow. And if you build that kind of intimacy with your mortality,

• 1:13:07Robin Sharma?

  then you are in the world, but you're not of the world. And you don't really, you do your best.

• 1:13:13Robin Sharma?

  But it's all an illusion and if you lose it, it doesn't matter because you're gonna be, as Marcus Aurelius said, Alexander the Great and his mule driver ended up in the same place. They were just a bunch of dust. They were just a bunch of dust.

• 1:13:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and I think, is it the country of Bhutan that focuses on their death five times a day? And they're supposed to be some of the happiest people in the world because they have that perspective and gratitude and appreciation for life now?

• 1:13:42Robin Sharma?

  Yeah, I think Bhutan is the happiest country in the world and I think they met, they don't have a GDP, they have a, you know, Gross Happiness Index. I was in South Africa and there was a gentleman who every time he would see a human being, he, his eyes would light up. And I said, you know, after spending a few days with him, I said, every time you see a human being, you know, you really come to life, like you just really, you smile and, and he said, you know, Robin, I've seen a lot of dead people in my life. So every time I see a live person, it makes me very happy.

• 1:14:22Robin Sharma?

  And if we can, if we can only connect with the shortness of life and, you know, the beauty of every human being and the dignity of every human being and the value of every human being and the opportunity we're graced with if we are alive today to do some, some beautiful work that contributes and to share some love and some joy. And it doesn't mean you have to work all the time. I mean, I like, take a good nap too. That's another part of enjoying life.

• 1:14:53Lewis Howes?

  Of course, yeah. This has been amazing. I want to, I want to ask you a couple of final questions to wrap things up, uh, before I get to them. I want to make sure people, check out your book. 5am Club, this is going to, if you've enjoyed this so far, you're gonna love this book. And I believe you have it on audio as well.

• 1:15:10Robin Sharma?

  Yeah, it's on Audible. People are loving the audiobook and you can get it on amazon.com and all the usual places.

• 1:15:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, you should get the book. Get up at 5am or, or start at 6 or 7 if you need to get started there, then work towards 5 and read this for 20 minutes a day, or listen to it for 20 minutes a day while you're working on your routine. Uh, but this is really gonna support you in your life. Even if you just took one idea away from this book, it will add value to your life and help you. And you also have some free resources for people uh, at robinsharma.com/greatness. Can you share what these resources are to help people?

• 1:15:47Robin Sharma?

  Sure, um, so I wanted to, to contribute some strong value to all your followers, Lewis, in this time where a lot of people are facing, you know, a lot of volatility and uncertainty and a lot of stress and challenge. So I put together what I call the Victory Over Difficulty Toolkit. And these are three, uh, strong, high-value reports. The first is the Victory Over Difficulty Manual. It's not long, it's about a 15-page, um, handcrafted report that will help creative people, productives, and entrepreneurs navigate these times so they battle-proof their lives and their businesses,

• 1:16:31Robin Sharma?

  uh, and then come out of this much stronger than before. The second resource is, um, the War Measures Manual.

• 1:16:40Robin Sharma?

  And I believe we are at a war against the coronavirus and distraction and economic challenges. And so I think it's really smart to look at how the greatest warriors navigated difficulty. And that's what that report is about. And then the final thing is actually a full ebook. I believe it's about 80 pages long, and it's called the World Changers Manifesto. Obviously, no charge whatsoever, pure value. And you're right, it's at robinsharma.com/greatness in celebration of the School of Greatness.

• 1:17:12Lewis Howes?

  I love that, I love that. I want to ask you, um... A couple of final questions. And, and you had some amazing answers the last time on your three truths and your definition of greatness. And I may, I may tease people and not share what you said, but really powerful responses. And I want people, and I'll link it up in the show notes to go listen to the previous interview where you can hear those answers. So I have a different question for you today, beyond the three truths and your definition of greatness. Is happiness the goal today for people? Or is it an outcome of following a routine in your day to day life? Is it the goal or is it the outcome?

• 1:17:57Robin Sharma?

  I think it's a byproduct. I believe the goal is truth. Now, truth is not some kind of philosophical truth. I'd say the goal is truth. Live your truth. That could be do work that's meaningful for you. Your truth, live your values, even if no one believes in you. Your truth, stand in your power versus external power. But I think the goal is to be truthful to yourself. I think if you do that, you're going to be happy. Because then you're not becoming who the world wants you to be. You're authentic and honorable to yourself. That's when you fall in love with yourself.

• 1:18:39Robin Sharma?

  When you fall in love with yourself, you do amazing work because you wouldn't betray and dishonor yourself. You eat great food, you get up early, exercise, you treat people well.

• 1:18:48Lewis Howes?

  I think if people understood the art of falling in love with yourself, the world would be much better. Because it took me thirty years to learn how to forgive, heal, let go of anger, resentment. And it was, I was constantly in war in my emotions. And I was still productive and it drove me to achieve, but it didn't make me feel peace inside. And it wasn't until I started, started to heal all those past things and say, okay, I'm allowed to love myself. That's when I started to truly feel fulfilled. That's when I could sleep at night without stressing. I mean, that's when I truly started to unlock.

• 1:19:29Lewis Howes?

  Um, who I am, and I think it's a game we should all learn how to play well. Uh, is how to love yourself and it's probably a lifelong journey. Um, you know, I'm not sure what it's gonna look like in 10, 20, 30 years from now. Hopefully I can continue to live that long, but I'm sure it's a constant process, right?

• 1:19:48Robin Sharma?

  It's a, it's a messy, dangerous, amazing, wonderful, incredible process. I think it's the best sport you could ever play. I think the world is selling us a good, a bill of goods, which is the goal in life is FFA. Fame, fortune and applause. I've never felt happy from fame, fortune and applause. For a day I do.

• 1:20:09Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 1:20:10Robin Sharma?

  But I believe the real goal and a completely different sport is JPF, joy, peace and freedom. And the interesting thing in joy, peace and free, joy, peace and freedom doesn't come from anything in the world. It comes from learning who you are, living your truth, expressing your truth, loving yourself. Here's the paradox. If you have that level of power where you're deriving your creativity, your love, your honor, your expression from everything within, the world beats a path to your door because you're so incredible. You're so incredibly powerful.

• 1:20:45Lewis Howes?

  That's true. Things unfold, things naturally come to you. You're like a magnet of all your dreams. We could, I'm, I'm, we could write a whole book on this whole episode. Rob, and I really acknowledge you for your consistency of how you show up in the world, for being there for human beings. I mean, again, the way you were there for me, when you came on the interview the first time a year and a half ago, you met me at a time when I was going through some challenges and you really showed your light towards me and you were there for me in a powerful way. And the way you keep showing up for yourself, keep writing to serve humanity, it's, it's inspiring, my friend. And I want everyone to get this book. 5 AM Club, it's gonna change the game for you, I promise you, go check it out right now. Robin, is there any final thoughts? Because I want people to go listen to your three truths and definition of greatness on the episode,

• 1:21:30Lewis Howes?

  on the other episode, but is there any final thoughts? While we wrap this up?

• 1:21:34Robin Sharma?

  I just say, you know, when I've gone, I remember a particularly hard time in my life and someone said something. And he just said, this too shall pass, and obviously, it's a, it's a old piece of wisdom. But that really helped me, and I want to say to everyone tuning in here, you know, what we're going through will pass, better days are ahead. And the key is to ask yourself, when I'm looking back at this time that we've navigate, that we have to navigate right now in five years, what will I wish I would have done during the time of the pandemic to set me up for a glorious life as I go ahead? And I'd, secondly, I'd say,

• 1:22:17Robin Sharma?

  you know, you are stronger than you know, everyone. And how many times have we faced a crisis? We didn't think we could get through it, get through it. And the final thing I'd say is I'd like to applaud you, Lewis, you know, you, you're very consistent. You really care about the world and all the, all the work you do. And I think, you know, I just want to celebrate you for, you know, you're changing the world. And, and you have, I think you have a really good heart and I want to, you know, I want to just celebrate you for that and, and, you know, thanks for reaching out to me.

• 1:22:55Lewis Howes?

  Of course, appreciate it, Robin, thanks so much, man. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I am so glad you made it here because I know if you implement one of these ideas into your life, you will improve your daily quality of your life. And if you found value, please share this with one or two friends. Just text a couple of friends right now, this link, lewishouse.com/988, or just copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this on your favorite podcast platform and send this along, post it on your social media accounts, tag me at Lewis Howes. Make sure to. To tag Robin as well, as I'm sure he would appreciate seeing who is listening to this right now. And if you enjoyed it, click on that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts right now and leave

• 1:23:40Lewis Howes?

  us a review and a rating. When you do that, when you subscribe and you leave a rating or review, it really helps us spread the message of greatness to more people. So by doing that, you're helping change the world. And if you want inspiring text messages from me every week, then text the word PODCAST to 614-350-3960 and I'll send you messages right to your phone and you can send back messages to me as well. And I want to close with a quote from Braveheart. "Every man dies, not every man truly lives." What are you doing every day to truly live? How are you setting up your day? If no one has told you lately, you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

• 1:24:24Lewis Howes?

  I'm so grateful for you, and you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.