354: Caleb Pressley on Creating Viral Internet Content

Caleb Pressley is one of the most electric people on the internet. He currently works at Barstool Sports, run the @thinker account on Instagram, and previously played football at the University of North Carolina. In this conversation, we discuss college football, pro athletes creating content and building audiences, social media trends, default digital value of assets, volatility as Bitcoin's PR team, and many behind the scenes stories of Caleb's escapades. =============================== Athletic Greens is an all-in-one daily drink to support better health and peak performance. Even with a balanced diet, it’s difficult to cover all of your nutritional bases. That’s where Athletic Greens will help. Their daily drink is like nutritional insurance for your body that’s delivered straight to your door. You can get yours at https://athleticgreens.com/pomp =============================== Coinbase Wallets are adding support for .crypto and .zil domains through their partnership with Unstoppable Domains. Unstoppable Domains provides an all-in-one solution for blockchain domains. You can send money using these new domains instead of long Bitcoin wallet addresses, while also storing your domain in Coinbase's collectibles section. Go to unstoppabledomains.com in the dapp browser to register and manage your domains. =============================== Pomp writes a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast. Simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Caleb Presley is one of the most electric people on the internet. He currently works at Barstool Sports. He runs the @thinker account on Instagram and previously played football at the University of North Carolina. In this conversation, we discuss college football, pro athletes creating content and building audiences, social media trends, default digital value of assets, volatility as Bitcoin's PR team, and many behind the scenes stories of Caleb's escapades. I really enjoyed this conversation with Caleb and I hope you do as well. Before we get into the episode though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors.

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

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• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

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• 2:52Anthony Pompliano?

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• 3:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Everyone's talking about DeFi, but don't sleep on the DeWeb. The decentralized internet is on the way. Unstoppable Domains is leading the way and now Coinbase wallets will support these .crypto and .zill domains. Unstoppabledomains.com. Go check them out. Lastly, don't forget that I write a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. I break down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing my personal opinion on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com. Pompletter.com. All right, let's get into this episode with Caleb. He doesn't disappoint. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 4:44Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got a special treat today. Caleb Pressley is here. For those of you that do not know Caleb, he is a electric content creator is how I would describe him. Thanks so much for doing this, man.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  No problem. I'm excited. I told you I'm a big fan of yours. Huge fan.

• 5:05Anthony Pompliano?

  So Caleb, you grew up in North Carolina or just went to UNC?

• 5:09Speaker 02

  I grew up there. Born and raised, Ashland, North Carolina, which is in the mountains, west North Carolina. And yeah, then I went to Carolina for school too. So really the only time I've ever not been in North Carolina is here in New York City.

• 5:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, that's awesome. And so let's talk first about UNC football. I grew up a Duke fan, so we'll give you a pass. But what was that like playing football at UNC and kind of that whole experience?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Well, I'll give you a pass because, because my dad went to Duke. And so we had a little bit of Duke affiliations as I was growing up as well.

• 5:46Anthony Pompliano?

  But was he mad when you decided to go to Carolina?

• 5:49Speaker 02

  No, he wasn't mad, but I'll tell you this. He put a sticker on his car whenever I went to Carolina to play football. And then the day I graduated, he took his sticker off.

• 6:00Speaker 02

  It wasn't, it wasn't, yeah, he wasn't feeling it. So anyway, it was a great experience, man. I was there for, I went in, I went in under Butch Davis. And he got fired my freshman year before my first three days before the season started. So I got I got there in June or July. I spent like a month or two in the summer conditioning program, meeting everyone, all the coaching staff, whatever. And then three days before the season starts, he gets fired for, you know, there was just some apparently some cheating going on. Turns out he didn't even have anything to do with it, but he got fired. The staff took, you know, his staff was there my freshman year, but then after that they got fired

• 6:45Speaker 02

  too. So then I kind of, you know, I don't know how well your listeners are into football or not, but I went in basically Butch Davis is a pro style offense, which is a different type of quarterback. That's a different type of offense for a quarterback. And then we got a new spread style offense after that, which wasn't good for me.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  I was not a, I'm not a prototypical spread quarterback. So I had a great time in Carolina. I was a career backup, played in a few games and and I wouldn't change it for the world.

• 7:20Anthony Pompliano?

  I saw somebody tweeting at us when I asked for questions about you had a very long two yard run, they said. So I don't know. I think it was against Idaho or something, which I figured was somebody that you either knew or a Carolina fan that was trying to bust your balls.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  No, dude, it was actually historically correct. There's in the college football almanac. It's actually the longest two yard run in the history of the game. It was almost three yards. Yeah, no, it was, we were beaten, I think Idaho by, I think it was 70 to 20. And then the coach put me in. I think it was time to take the starters out eventually. And, and they, we were running a zone. So like, I'll do another inside football thing, but we're running a run play, basically zone read. We have an attached tight end. So what what you do in a in a zone read is you read the defensive end. If he crashes on the running back, you pull the ball.

• 8:18Speaker 02

  Well, if there's an attached tight end, then the tight end will just block that guy that you're supposed to read. And so there really is no ability to read it as a quarterback and you push the hand off, let the guy go. So I'm sitting here on the sideline, you know, it's 50 to 20, 60 to 20.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Seventy to twenty, finally I would get in. So I was like, I'm pulling the ball. So I basically made up my own play and almost made it three yards.

• 8:47Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I love that. I joke all the time. I put football at Bucknell University and in high school, our team was horrible. Like, I think we literally went one in 10 for two years straight when I was a freshman and sophomore. And so by the time I got to be a senior, we basically were like, look, man, we're either gonna have fun out here or we're gonna lose all the time. And our best play my senior year was a fake punt. So we basically would get in fourth and long and then we would run a fake punt. And the coach would only call it, you know, once a game. And finally, towards the end of the season, my friends and I just started saying, look, man, we're gonna run that play all the time. And so we would just call it ourselves on the field. And as you can imagine, I'm sure your coach didn't like the fact that you pulled the ball or that we used to run the fake punt. And, you know, they want to run their system, but hey, that's what happens, right?

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, fake punt's always good. You get to a point where you're running on third down, though, that's a problem.

• 9:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolutely. All right. And then tell us about this letter that you wrote to the coaches. What, what is that?

• 9:46Speaker 02

  You had to remind me, maybe. We have a lot of history there.

• 9:49Anthony Pompliano?

  So somebody said that you wrote a letter to the coaches that had like some ridiculous all time quotes in it, but it's no longer available anywhere on the internet?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  So this is what they're probably talking about. So I used to have, when I was at Carolina, and this is kind of how I got started at Barstool and, and, or at least it was the origins of it was, I had a website called CalebPresley.com. And I would just, you know, I didn't have any like aspirations to be in media as a profession, but I actually was inspired by this guy named Mark Titus. Some people might know him. He's still around. But when he was at Ohio State, he's a basketball player, he kept his own website called Club Trillion. And it was hilarious. Like, he was just always, he was a backup to- He's always writing about his interactions with like Greg Oden, who was there at the time and

• 10:39Speaker 02

  just hilarious website. So I was inspired by him. So I started my own website where I was doing blogs. I was trying to imitate him, basically. It was a copycat. And I was doing a couple of videos and it was all just to make people laugh and for my friends, really, my family, people who were following me back home in Asheville. And then, of course, there are some Carolina fans who are deep enough in like the message boards and stuff where they find out about it. And so I wrote a lot of stuff on that site, which it hasn't been necessarily deleted. I just stopped paying for it. So I think that I think that like WordPress deleted it, but I mean, I don't know. I probably could renew the subscription and find out what they're talking about. I wrote a lot of things and just in the interest of

• 11:20Speaker 02

  of remembering it fondly and remembering it like I was a good writer. I just don't want to renew it because I don't even want to see it.

• 11:27Anthony Pompliano?

  And were you writing things like covering your day to day life or were you writing like let open letters to the coaches and things like that while you're playing?

• 11:36Speaker 02

  Like any, like literally anything like open letters to the coaches, like demanding more playing time. I think I wrote one about like how third, I think I wrote one about thirst. This is about like basically how like horny you guys get during the summer during college like.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wrote, I wrote a lot of things and I'm not even sure how well they would be remembered. That's what I'm saying. So let's just, I might just let the sleeping dog lie.

• 11:59Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, that's fair.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  They might be remember well, I don't know. I would actually be interested to see.

• 12:03Anthony Pompliano?

  I, I would love to see players today using social media or blogs demanding more playing time. Like at the college level, I think things would get out of hand very quickly if that became the trend.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  That's why it's trending, dude. It's, it's definitely going power to the player.

• 12:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you see the pack, you see the pack 12?

• 12:21Speaker 02

  I saw the pack.

• 12:22Anthony Pompliano?

  What do you think about that? So for those that don't know, the pack 12 players, supposedly a bunch of them have come together and they're basically making demands. Everything from, uh, they want safer conditions during coronavirus to they want a revenue split with the conference. They want, uh, lifetime healthcare and all these, you know, pretty, uh, material demands. What's your take on that?

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I think, I think power to the player and I think that that's the way it's trending. That's the way it's gonna be, whether you know, the NCAA is, is gonna be with it or not. Or these conferences are gonna, of course, they're gonna meet it with resistance. And I don't know, you know, I'm not super informed on the exact details of what Pac 12 guys are asking for, but it is gonna be the way of power to the player and not just necessarily on in college. I mean, college is where they're probably the most, um, you know, they're, they have the most opportunity for growth. But even in the like professional ranks, I remember watching, uh, I think it was last year when it's, gosh, it seems like 20 years ago with everything that's going on, but I think it was last year.

• 13:28Speaker 02

  Antonio Brown, uh, was with, was put out that video of John Gruden calling him. And he was at his house and it was like, he was releasing footage that no, behind the scenes footage that, you know, wasn't in part of the HBO show or anything. It was just a intimate call that he had with John Gruden. And he put it out for the world to see and John Gruden, I don't think knew about it. Or maybe he cleared it with him after. But I remember watching that and being like, one, this is so interesting. It's captivating because you're seeing these people that you really care about operate basically behind closed doors. But what's stopping anyone from doing this? Not necessarily in just exposing conversations, but just in like really opening the door and letting people in.

• 14:14Speaker 02

  I'm watching, I keep track of it. I'm watching, uh, right now, JaVale McGee from the Lakers is, is doing a, a vlog inside the bubble. He's basically just, he's filming himself. I mean, it's, it's pretty, uh, crude, not in the sense of, uh, like language or anything, but crude in the sense of how it's made. But he's basically following day to day life in, with the Lakers. And, you know, he's getting on the bus and you see LeBron James in the back of the bus, listening to music. It's like. That's so easy for athletes of any level to capture and release and people are going to be so interested in that content. And it's something that we've really never seen, which is behind the scenes without these big hulking cameras which change behaviors.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  I do content for, you know, for work and a lot of the stuff we've done in the past has been like, you know, getting reactions out of people or talking to people on the street or, or even like hidden camera stuff. And you always want, I always ask the producer or whoever's shooting it, let's get a smaller camera. Because these big cameras change your behavior in an instant, you know, we have these huge

• 15:22Speaker 02

  freaking things that sit on shoulders and we got these, these audio booms and, and all of a sudden people start acting different. But if you can have these little cameras, which now are just the iPhone or whatever, you capture real life. It's like, uh, exactly how people are and for players to have the iPhone and to have the editing ability or to have, you know, a blog might even be outdated in terms of writing, uh, for players. I don't know. You have to have some good writers, I guess, but.

• 15:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Have you seen Mateus, I think is how you pronounce his name from, uh, the 76ers? He's been doing the same thing and he started on YouTube, maybe two, three weeks ago. He's already got almost a million subscribers. Each video that he's released, he's done like six or seven of them now, uh, has gotten a million views, uh, on each one, I think now.

• 16:04Speaker 02

  No, I haven't seen him. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I don't see what's stopping these guys from, because then what happens is, is then all of a sudden you start seeing from their perspective. You start seeing from the NBA players perspective, which we don't necessarily feel bad for NBA players and pro athletes. But, okay, then an NCAA athlete does this, some, a college football player. And you start seeing the day to day in his life and then all of a sudden, um, you start really seeing from his perspective. And then all of a sudden you really relate to him and then when they start making demands or when they start asking for,

• 16:41Speaker 02

  Basically, just to be treated fairly and be compensated fairly. Then you start being like, hey, this guy's right. I see what he's saying. He's totally right. And right now, what the NCAA has done a really effective job doing, whether it's intentional or unintentional, and I think it's intentional. And it's also these college programs is shushing the players, hushing the players, where they're the only ones getting to put their viewpoints and their perspective out. And so, of course, the public is just now starting to come around to the idea that maybe this is really unfair. And the more content these athletes are able to do, and the more people are able to relate to them, whether it's just social media, even if it's not a vlog, the quicker this is going to change, in my opinion.

• 17:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and I think that you got kind of two different things here, right? One is The Last Dance, if you watched that, right, with Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls. Like, they filmed all of that behind the scenes content and held it for, you know, 15, 20 years. And then they all released it at once, but it was very cut up. It was approved by Michael. It was kind of ESPN's version of that history. I think what you're talking about is getting access to that information almost in real time. And pro players are interesting. I completely agree it's going to happen at the college level. But you can almost go a step further. And what stops a player from, after a game, videoing, let's say, the athletic training room? Right? And like, look at how much pain some of these players are in after the game's over.

• 18:09Anthony Pompliano?

  And you could easily see, you know, some guy in a football stadium does that two or three games in a row, puts, you know, cuts it together and says, hey, you want to know why we want, you know, lifetime health insurance? Here's the, you know, the carnage after the game's over. And, look, I don't think that players, you know, necessarily want to go out and be like investigative journalists or anything like that. But I do think that they've got more power in their hands now. Right? They can do certain things that they previously weren't able to do, which, if they're smart, they can use to their advantage.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  That's exactly what I think. That's exactly what I'm saying, too. And trust me, these coaches know. And athletic directors know. And the people who are, it's in their interest to make sure that it doesn't happen. They know how much power is in the players' hands. And it's really kind of, you know, a lot of, I know, coaches, I remember Davos Sweeney a couple of years ago was like, no Twitter during the season. That's not so, listen, that's not so the players are focused. I mean, he wants them to be focused. The reason there's no Twitter during the season is he doesn't want anything getting out, someone to say something stupid, bulletin board material for another team, or even worse, some type of violation the NCAA is going to get Clemson on. They're looking out for themselves. And trust me, even when I was at Carolina,

• 19:20Speaker 02

  Fedora was the coach during whenever I was doing on my website and my content, was very receptive to me making content. He was very okay with it and encouraged it in a lot of ways. But with that being said, there were definitely still conversations that I had with my quarterback coach and and other, you know, it was just well known. It's like, hey, if you're going to be doing this and you're going to be posting, you have a responsibility not just to, yeah, you can try and make people laugh and try to be, you know, you know, funny guy on the side, whatever, but also this is very serious and you need to be careful what you're posting. And there's a lot of power there and I think the players are starting to come around to that.

• 20:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And the part to me that's so interesting about the Pac 12 thing is there's multiple teams, right? This isn't just a couple of guys who are going, you know, quote unquote rogue from one team. They've actually gone and they're organizing with people across the conference. And all they've done really is they've just made a demand, right? Which sounds like it's more of like they sent a letter or something like that. What you're talking about is when you start, when you stop talking to the NCAA, you start talking directly to the people, you could see very quickly this going from, hey, the NCAA is cool with you using your image and likeness, which, you know, when you or I were in college, wasn't allowed to now, literally the public pressure being like, why aren't you paying these kids?

• 20:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Right? And, you know, if you go back to, what was it? The Ohio State guys who like sold their cleats or something, right? You know what I mean? And they were getting in trouble for it. And it was like, look, their argument basically was, or you know who actually I think had the best argument was Arian Foster, right? I think he went to Tennessee, if I remember correctly. And when he was in the NFL, he came out and he said, I went into the stadium, I had like, you know, a record day or whatever. Everyone's chanting my name. I went home, opened my refrigerator, I had no food. And the quote he gave was, I called the coach and I said, hey, coach, you better bring me 100 tacos or I'm going to do something crazy. Right. And it's like, look, is he right in that situation? Probably not. But he's like, but the coach brought me the tacos.

• 21:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Right. And so you kind of get in this world of like, those are the stories that people previously were only comfortable saying, once they were NFL, once they had no repercussions. But I think that now with social media and content, people are going to start sharing those stories in real time.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Right. You don't want to air out your coaches. Like that's, you know, that's a violation. The coach now I do that. So, you know, like when I was at Carolina, it was, uh, Coach Fedora and those guys. I got, I like the coaches. I'm not trying to do anything that's going to affect them negatively. That's their job. They have families there that they put in a lot of time. Most of them really care about the players. So, you know, you don't want to get other people in trouble just because you're trying to, you know, expose a flaw in the system and that, you know, that goes for more than just college football, but it's kind of a balance of how do you get change without throwing other people under the bus and hurting what they got going on.

• 22:17Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Talk to me about, uh, Barstool. Obviously, uh, you've gone from college quarterback to Barstool and create some of the most hilarious content I've ever seen. You know, you were talking earlier, kind of like the man on the street or, um, going to college campuses, you know, during football season and stuff like, where do all these ideas come from? And kind of what's that process look like from going from, you know, I've got an idea to actually getting something, uh, approved and, and published.

• 22:43Speaker 02

  So this is what I think is interesting about Barstool for people who don't know is that Barstool was founded by Dave Portnoy, who is, who has now become, he's pretty much like a national celebrity. I mean, pretty much everyone knows him, whether you, whatever you feel about him. He's known. So he started this company and he basically just started it as he wanted it to be,

• 23:06Speaker 02

  for the common man, by the common man, about sports, sports talk. And he's grown it and he's grown it, but along the way as he's hired new talent and I was one of the.

• 23:17Speaker 02

  Now, when we look at it now, I mean, I was like the 13th employee. So I was, I was early on, I was before we got bought. But he still had been going it a long time before I came into the picture. And every time he picks up someone new that he thinks is good for Barstool, he is not overloading them. Basically, he's saying, hey, I think that you could make a valuable contribution to Barstool Sports. And what I want from you is I want you to go out and I want you to create content and I want you to publish content. And whether it's writing or it's a blog or now a podcast or TikTok, or I guess we might be moving to Triller, it sounds like, or whatever.

• 23:57Speaker 02

  You know, I want you to go do your thing. And then I'm also, Dave's running a company, but he's not like, you know, CEO guy all the time. He's, as you can see, he's making content as well. So it's like, almost a sense of like, yeah, go do your thing. Like, go, go, go for it. And then, whatever you come up with and put out, great. He's not checking anyone's work before it goes out. There's no editorial process. I think there might be now for like some of the really new guys because it has gotten so big. But um, there was never any point in my entire career where Dave, uh, like was like approving ideas after I came to him. Of course, you know, every once in a while he'll have an idea for me.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Or if there's something like it's a really expensive travel, I'll run it, you know, hey Dave, is this okay? And but with that being said, he's never said no. In my entire career at Barstool, which is, you know, five years now, he's never said no. He's like the best boss. And I think it's the only way Barstool works how it does, is that it's, it's complete creative freedom. And it's like everyone's their own boss. And we have this little world where uh, you can basically.

• 25:11Speaker 02

  Be as successful as you want to be and put out as much content as you want. Or you can, you can kind of hide in the weeds and you'll probably still get paid every two weeks. Because Dave just not paying attention. He's focused on making content himself. And so, you know, people are, don't know what to feel about Barstool because, you know, they maybe like, say they like Dave, but they don't like, you know, someone else. Or they like Big Cat, but they don't like Dave. And they're like, I don't understand, where is the company lying on Barstool? What is the, the main point they're trying to get across? And the, the fact of the matter is, there is no editorial point. It's just a bunch of different people who are all doing their own thing with basically no oversight.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  And it's, that's why it's kind of Wild, Wild West. There's no oversight.

• 26:01Anthony Pompliano?

  But that's what makes it fun, right?

• 26:03Speaker 02

  That's what makes it fun.

• 26:04Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. Wha- what do you feel like in terms of, um, that process? Like, what has it allowed you to do that maybe you couldn't have done elsewhere? So like one or two, you know, segments or, or pieces of content that you've done where you're like, I know that I could have never done this anywhere else. Only at Barstool could I have done this?

• 26:20Speaker 02

  I mean, almost exclusively everything I did.

• 26:25Anthony Pompliano?

  I figured that's what you were gonna say.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, there's, I've, I've done it all. I've done, uh, I mean, we've done things that are definitely not, uh, you know, PG. We've done, you know, we've done like the porn convention and we've done, uh, we've shot out and, and, uh, the Bunny Ranch, what was that for, uh, out there in, in Las Vegas where there's prostitution is legal, stuff like that, which is kind of more like sultry, uh, stuff. But also just how we involve with sports and, and we get in there and we do stuff that's not. I remember I went to Missouri last year and one of the things we did is like I covered like my, uh, my hydration tests, my pee test. And so like just showing yourself pee. I wasn't showing like nudity, but just like,

• 27:11Speaker 02

  I videoed myself peeing into a little jar. Recently I sent my poop off to, um, New Mexico and we talked about that. So just, there's just no, everything, everything. The answer is everything.

• 27:24Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you're thinking of this stuff, and I watch pretty much everything, first of all, it's hilarious, right? It's entertaining, and I think part of the point of Barstool is to make people laugh. And Dave and many others have said it multiple times, like, just to give people a break from life, right? And I think that you guys are obviously doing a great job of that. How do you personally come up with these ideas? Like peeing in a cup, sending your poop somewhere, going to the porn convention?

• 27:47Speaker 02

  I probably should like do more context on peeing in a cup and sending my poop, because that just sounds, without context, that sounds wild. But, uh, what, so, dude, so, it really is like, I kind of think of myself, and I don't know if this is right or wrong, but I kind of think of myself as just like working for myself. I work for Barstool and I work for the bigger company, you know, and I, and it's really out of just loyalty to Dave, because he, he really took a chance on, on hiring me out of, fresh out of college, and he's, he's just been like the best boss and, and really partner, because he's really a creative partner, because it's like,

• 28:31Speaker 02

  he's, he's not bossing me around, which I appreciate, and that, and it's, and he's like gained a lot of loyalty from me just by the fact that he's kind of like stays out of the way and he's, is very supportive, but he's not telling me what to do, and as a creative person, and as a, just a creative for my profession, that's, I think it's the only way it would work. And so I'm loyal to him and definitely to the brand, because that's what's given me the opportunities. But I kind of feel like my own boss in the sense of, I wake up every day and I make my own schedule. For the most part, I do radio every day. But besides that, I, I decide what I'm gonna do, I decide what I'm gonna work on, I decide where my priorities are, I decide what's, you know, important for me to post on, how many times I'm gonna post.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Every sing, every single decision that I make, I make on my own volition.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  And so, that's kind of, uh, it's kind of the feeling I wake up with is, is almost like I'm a, you know, entrepreneur in the sense of growing the, uh, my own brand. And, uh, so when I'm making these decisions, you just talk about what am I gonna, you know, what are you gonna work on and what I'm gonna do, or how do these videos come to light? A lot of them are just like...

• 29:47Speaker 02

  You know, they they just fit in with what I'm trying to at the moment like my almost. It sounds corny and it's not really how I think, but like a business initiative, like what am I trying to do right now? And then it's like, okay, what is the content that aligns with that?

• 30:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, makes sense. How has that changed in terms of quarantine? Obviously, people were just sitting at home. How did that affect you as you made some of the content?

• 30:11Speaker 02

  I went back to North Carolina. I saw everything was getting bad in New York. I kind of saw the writing on the wall. So there was like this weird. Text that was going around. I think you probably got it like a couple of times. It was like. It was about some dude had like an uncle who sat in on a lunch. Where Cuomo was at and they were talking about shutting down the bridges and tunnels.

• 30:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I got it.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I got that text like six times and I was like, all right, well. I'm getting out of here. And so I rented a car for a week in advance. I was like. If this everything keeps progressing at the rate it's progressing. A week from now, I'm gonna be wanting to get out of here. And I'm worried all the cars are gonna get rented up. So I rented a car for a week in advance. And sure enough, a week later, they didn't shut down the bridges and tunnels, but it was getting. Getting worse. And so I just took that car and I drove to North Carolina. And then I got to North Carolina and all my neighbors saw me and they're like, so who my parents get in there like. Wait, don't you live in New York City? Because this was like the worst thing in the world to have someone from New York City come to your neighborhood. But uh, so anyways, I was back in North Carolina and.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  I do what I could. I picked up golf, which is like now that's pretty much exclusively what I'm doing is golf.

• 31:21Anthony Pompliano?

  I I see the strokes hat on and there's a lot of people asking if you're gonna join the PGA.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's my goal. So. What happened to me is I went back home to North Carolina. Obviously, the one of the only things to do right now is play golf. I'm hanging out with some of my boys. We're actually in Chapel Hill. And and every time my whole life, people ask me if I want to play golf. I always say, I never played before and I don't want to hold you guys up.

• 31:50Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna go out there and then it's my first time. You guys know how to play. I'm spraying balls everywhere. I don't know the rules. And then all of a sudden, your whole golf experience is about helping me learn how to play. So every time I've been asked my whole life, I've been like, thanks, but no thanks. I don't wanna ruin your time. So I said this, this time, but these are like my best friends. And they're like, dude, come on, like, shut up. Let's, you can drink some beers and we'll come and let's play golf. First time I ever playing and I immediately fell in love with it. I was like, dude, this is the best sport ever. This is the best sport of all time. You're outside, you're with your friends. It's not super physically demanding, although I have got hurt multiple times since I started

• 32:32Speaker 02

  playing. Um, you can take it as seriously as you wanna take it. It's just, uh, it's just a beautiful game. It's mental. I mean, I was like, oh, this is my calling in life. And I'm 27, but I just figured out that this is actually what I'm supposed to do with my life is be a golfer. And so on that day, that very day, my first time ever playing, and I wasn't good. I wasn't like, oh, you're a natural, nothing like that. I just fell in love with it. And I said, my calling in life is to be on the golf course every day and to be, and the way that you do that is either,

• 33:12Speaker 02

  you know, Bitcoin goes to 45 trillion, I can do whatever I want. Or you become a professional golfer. So I said, okay, I'm gonna become a professional golfer because that is my calling. It's a gut feeling. I'm 27. I know I have uphill battle, but I'm gonna be 10 years from now on the PGA Tour. And that's what I, and I made that decision. I put that announcement out. That's probably two months ago. And since then, that's, uh, what I've been working on almost exclusively is to go to PGA Tour.

• 33:44Anthony Pompliano?

  So when you're in North Carolina, uh, it's much easier. There's golf courses everywhere and uh, you can just get your car drive there. In New York City, there's not exactly a lot of golf courses everywhere. So how do you continue that journey to the PGA Tour in New York City?

• 33:59Speaker 02

  Well, dude, I kept getting hurt at the beginning. So

• 34:02Anthony Pompliano?

  How do you get hurt playing? You gotta explain for those that don't know, how, how do you get hurt playing?

• 34:07Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, that's what I said, too. I was, when you think about golf, especially coming from like football background, you think about it just like a leisurely, easy game that old men play. So I, trust me, I was more surprised than anybody. But uh, I hadn't been doing anything. I would just, I was in, in content creator shape. I wasn't playing sports. I wasn't doing anything. So you go out there, it's a pretty athletic movement. If you want to do it right, or I, you know, I wasn't even doing it right. I was trying to, but a swing of a golf club is a lot of like, uh, you know, stability in your core, a lot of hips. And if you don't have those muscles ready, um, you, you'll find out you'll get pretty sore and you might even get hurt. But here's the real issue.

• 34:52Speaker 02

  Once I decided to go pro and people listening to this are like, is he serious? Does he really think he can go pro? He can't go pro. The answer is yeah, I'm, I am being serious. So whenever I, and we can talk more about why I'm serious if you want, but um, when I first started, I was like, okay, so I know this is gonna take. This is gonna take work. It doesn't just happen. So I immediately after starting playing one day, I think I started on like a Saturday. And on Monday, I was like, okay, let's start the golf career. And so I think I was putting in like six to eight hours of golf a day. Um, and that, and so basically I went from zero to 100.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  And so that's how I got hurt. It wasn't necessarily just like 18 holes with my buddies. Like I was like playing way too much. My body was not even close to being ready. And I just hit the accelerator too fast. And so then I really did, I ended up uh, pulling a muscle in my back. I had some really bad tendonitis in my knees. And then to top it all off, dude, one night I was, I came home from one of these golf trips. And my mom, so I'm staying at my parents' house for, for coronavirus. She made my, she like changed the sheets while I was out. So, you know, and that's a good mom move. And I'm not hating on my mom. I'm very appreciative of my mom. She changed my sheets. They needed to be changed. I appreciate that. I'm a grown man. I can handle my own, but she was doing me a favor.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  So I go in and she, she put clean sheets down the bed. So I go in to get in bed that night and I took a melatonin right before I went to bed. Because I was like, you know, I'm trying to get some sleep fast. I get in the bed. She tucked the sheets so tight under the bottom of the bed. Like, you ever been to a hotel and the sheets are super tight at the bottom of the bed?

• 36:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, you're doing like, you're like fighting with the sheets to get them untucked.

• 36:46Speaker 02

  It was, I don't know if the blanket was too long, the sheet was too long. It was almost like she tucked it all the way in from the bottom of the bed and then all the way back, all the way to the top. I couldn't get these things out. So eventually I just went to sleep and my toes were cranked back. Literally like this, they were cranked under the sheets. And all night they were cranked with the melatonin. I just, I just, I passed out. I wake up in the middle of the night in excruciating pain. I got turf toe from my mom's sheets and I'm not kidding. I got actual turf toe because my, my thing was pulled back for so long. And so I had to deal with turf toe. I mean, it's just been a myriad of terrible issues. So, and it.

• 37:31Anthony Pompliano?

  When you reach the PGA Tour, no one's going to be able to say it wasn't a, it wasn't a journey. You didn't, you didn't work hard for this.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  No one, no one's going to be able to say that. It's going to be a modern miracle if I can even, so I haven't swung a golf club in over a month.

• 37:46Anthony Pompliano?

  So what are you going to do in New York?

• 37:48Speaker 02

  So I'm back here now.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  And I have a plan to, there's, there's a course, a nine hole course in New Jersey. It's like 25 minutes from me that I've worked it out with them, that they're going to let me come out there. And my, my plan is every day I'm going to go out in the morning. I'm going to play my, you know, nine, 18 holes of on course experience. I'll go in, I do a radio show every day at one o'clock, the Yak on Sirius XM for Barstool. Uh, with a bunch of other great guys. And then after that, there's another place called Golf and Body. And it is a, it's a membership only club in New York City. It's very nice, very like luxurious.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  They, they reached out to me and they, you know, they worked it out for me because I can't pay it. It's a very expensive place. So I can't personally front the bill. So they're letting me get in kind of, you know, just out of good faith, I guess. And they're, they're just being nice guys. So they're letting me go there for free.

• 38:53Anthony Pompliano?

  But when you make it to the PGA Tour, they're going to be able to say, yeah, they're going to say, hey, we raised.

• 38:59Speaker 02

  That's what they said. I said, hey, man, so part of my like, you know, I told you I'd make my own boss, whatever.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  You know, part of my thing with Barstool is that they,

• 39:13Speaker 02

  I can't advertise. I can't just like advertise for whoever. So I told Golf and Body, I was like, I can't like advertise for you guys. They're like, no, all we want is whenever you go pro, just say that you came to Golf and Body. I was like, done. So anyways, and after you know, go there and they have everything. They have hitting bays. They have like PGA professional instructors. They have putting greens. They have a workout facility that hopefully whenever the gym is open back up, I can utilize.

• 39:40Speaker 02

  And they have locker rooms and everything. So it's like a full indoor golf place. It's honestly not ideal for someone who's trying to go pro because you really want to be out on the course. And, and, but for New York City, it's the best possible way to continue to be good at golf, especially during the winter, which you know is I'm not going to be outside here. So I have eight hours a day I could think I could put into golf.

• 40:02Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. So there's a lot of people who watch this and say, Caleb is always joking around, but I think he's serious. And the question then is, why is he serious about this?

• 40:13Speaker 02

  So dude, it's really like my whole life.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  I'm still new. I gotta figure out a better way to answer this question because I'm getting asked a lot. I haven't nailed my answer, but really the truth is that when I play golf that day, and this sounds maybe stupid, but I play golf that day. And I was thinking about it. I had this like emotional, physical. When I had the, it was like this idea. It was like, I should go pro. I should like do this with my life. And then all of a sudden, like all these mechanisms inside me and my brain starts churning and then everything was like, it just made sense. It was like a gut feeling. It was a literal gut feeling. And then

• 40:56Speaker 02

  you know, I'm thinking about it and all of a sudden the ideas start flowing. You know, if you ever had a, you know, an idea and then all of a sudden you might be driving the car and you have an idea, whether it's about your work or whatever. And then all of a sudden that idea and you're like, oh my God, this is great. And then I could do this and I could do this. And so I had that with golf. It was like a gut feeling that was like, yo, this is, it makes sense because I love being, obviously have athletic background. I love the athletic part of it. I love the competition part of it. I love the camaraderie part of it. I love um, the fact that it's outside and it's, it's, it's very like, you feel like you're kind of in nature, even though you're not, which is

• 41:36Speaker 02

  perfect for me because I, in theory, like nature, but then when I'm actually like back in North Carolina, we go like hiking and stuff. I'm like, this is like, there's like too many bugs out here, you know? So golf is like the perfect balance of nature for me. You get off your phone, which is a big thing for me because I'm always on my phone for work. So to be able to get off the phone. So just lifestyle wise, it works for me. And then I was like, I can do this for my work. Like I'm a, I'm a content creator. There's a, there's a lot of golf space to be had for making content. I can do this and still do a good job at my work for Barstool. And this is something where, you know, I can basically continue on the path I'm on, but also

• 42:19Speaker 02

  start a new journey. I'm like, yo, I'm 27. This might take me 10, say it takes me 20 years. Maybe, tell me it takes 23 years. I think at 50, you can play on a senior tour. Say I don't get on any tours until I'm a senior. Yeah, I know fifty year olds like they're relatively still young, especially ones who are like going for their dreams and and like doing stuff like. It seems twenty seven, thinking about being fifty seems so far off. But then I know these fifty year olds who are like totally young and totally like going for it and in good shape. I'm like, don't I, what I want to do at forty seven, do I still want to be going to college campuses?

• 43:01Speaker 02

  And like, I mean, these videos are good, but I am going to get aged out of some of it. Isn't it good to be like uh uh on the PGA tour or on a senior tour at fifty like, isn't that a good lifestyle that I could be working towards while maintaining my goals here? And and I think also came back to just my innate um what I'm good at. And I think that's something I've really been focusing on a lot recently is trying to just focus in on things that I'm really good at. Um and and it put my attention there because I know that from my experience, you know, what I what I put my attention on, I get better at. And what I focus on is improves.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  But, you know, I've also put my attention and focus on things that I'm not inherently good at or I'm not naturally uh great at. And so then I watch those things go from bad to average and I'm not really seeing a huge value add to my life. Um, one thing that I I don't think I'm that good at that I do every day is radio. I do it every day, uh and I wouldn't do it, but I like the guys so much on the show that I do it. It's like Big Cat and Roan and KB, Nick and Brandon Walker, the guys. And it's just like a good group of guys that I feel like I'm hanging out with my friends.

• 44:15Anthony Pompliano?

  Why do you, why do you feel like you're not good at it?

• 44:17Speaker 02

  It's just not natural to me. Um, you know, I I'm not like a natural, I'm not like a take artist, you know, like people who are. Are like, they can just give you like a fire take about anything, just right off the top of their head. It's just not my, it's not my thing and it's just not, I know that about myself. Uh, I'm more like, I like to like, think of like.

• 44:39Speaker 02

  I don't wanna say bigger ideas, but like, you know, something that might take a little bit more time, or like, a, a, a video idea that's, that's kinda more like convoluted and has more layers to it. That's, that's what I'm good at. So anyways, long-winded way of saying, I do that just because I love the guys and they're part of my, and they're just like my friends. Um, but anything else that I do and I'm putting my attention on, I'm really trying to make sure that I'm, I have a chance of being like the best at it, or like one of the best at it. And that goes for videos, uh, that I'm making, but also for golf. That's my, it's my personality. It's like, it's a kind of like a thinking game. It is some athleticism. I'm not like the most, I play college football, but I'm not really like the most athletic guy of all time.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  I'm just, I have like enough athleticism. The thing that got me far in football was the mental side of the game and I was a hard worker. Uh, I was really good at the mental side of the game and I was a really hard worker. I see those qualities. I'm above the threshold for golf, so I'm not, I'm athletic enough to be an elite player, but, um, you know, I'm not super athletic. And then the mental side though, I think I could really thrive and I think I could really thrive, uh, in the hardworking side, which I know I'm a hard worker. So anyways, I, it aligns for me with what I'm inherently good at. And I wanna start doing things that are, uh, sustainable one, but also two, that I can, if I do put my attention and my focus on it, then I can really become really good at it.

• 46:07Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 46:09Anthony Pompliano?

  So before we talk about Bitcoin, where are we starting on the golf side? Like, what are you shooting when you go for eighteen holes right now? And then what do we gotta get to? One twenty-one?

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Here's my hat right here, fifty-one strokes. I have to lose fifty-one strokes to be a scratch player. Uh, that's what the fifty-one strokes is all about. So my goal, uh, was June eighteenth. Next year, I wanna be scratch. Now, I didn't foresee being sidelined with, for two months of that twelve months with injuries. Um, so maybe that's gonna be hard. It was gonna be hard to begin with, but I said, if I can't get to scratch in one year, I mean, this is a far-off goal. I'm not an idiot. I know what it's, to be in the PGA, that's tough. So if I can't show some type of inherent ability to play and hard work that it takes and

• 47:01Speaker 02

  skill level to get to scratch in a year, which is almost impossible, but you gotta remember I'm playing a lot. Then maybe this ain't, I ain't cut out for golf as much I thought I was. So that was my goal. I do need to uh get back playing. Maybe I'll give myself like a breakfast ball on one or two months. But uh 121 is my score. I, my goal is to be at, at a, I want to be a scratch player by June 18th, 2021. And then four years after that, I want to be on some type of tour. And then I'm going to give myself uh five years from there to go be on the PGA tour. That puts me at PGA player at 37 years old,

• 47:42Speaker 02

  which is possible. There are thirty, plenty of 37 and up players on the PGA tour.

• 47:48Anthony Pompliano?

  So uh what's the best score you shot so far?

• 47:52Speaker 02

  121.

• 47:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay, so 121 is the best and now we gotta go through.

• 47:55Speaker 02

  Only time I've ever kept score.

• 47:57Anthony Pompliano?

  Oh, okay. All right, all right. That's fair. Look, hey.

• 47:59Speaker 02

  Keep in mind, I'm new, dude. I've only kept score uh because I'm so bad that when I go out and play, I'm not keeping score because it hurts my morale.

• 48:07Anthony Pompliano?

  So I'm going to give you uh, you're, you're a better man than me because the only golf where I've ever kept score is uh like actually tried to keep scores. We used to play something called speed golf, which everyone plays normal golf. They count the number of strokes, right? And so, you know, par three, whatever. What we did a couple of times in uh in high school is we play speed golf, which is when you tee off uh from the tee box, the timer starts and you can run all over the course, do whatever. It doesn't matter how many strokes. It's how long does it take from when you tee off to you put the ball in? But the only difference or the only caveat to that is when you tee off, you've got to finish a beer before you put the ball. So every hole is one beer and it's timed rather than strokes.

• 48:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:51Anthony Pompliano?

  Absolute madness by about like, you know, hole six or seven.

• 48:56Anthony Pompliano?

  We used to go to like a, you know, one of these like executive par three courses. That's like, you know, nine holes or whatever. Complete madness by the time you get about halfway through.

• 49:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, uh the golfing is also like, it's an easy way to get carried away with the drinking. It's very, you find it easy way. We played, so the, the weekend I hurt my back. We were in Pinehurst. Uh, we have some, some golf stuff going on. Barstool Classic is at Pinehurst, so I was there. And over the course of the weekend, I get in on Friday and we played uh, I played 36 holes on Friday. I got in, we, my first tee time was at one, right? Played 18.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  Uh, one and then we got finished around five or something and we're walking back off the course and we're like, dude, we really want to play again. Found some random dudes that we had never met. Like you guys want to, if I can get us a tee time, because Pinehurst was like helping us out. It was like, you guys would play with us? Played thirty-six on Friday. The next day I played forty-five on Saturday. And the point here is at the forty-five holes, you can imagine the drinking, it gets intense. And then, um, and I think we played whatever the remainder is. Played ninety-seven holes for the whole weekend. And dude, I don't know if my body hurt more or my brain dude from, it's easy way to get carried away. I think that's why a lot of guys like, I think fifty percent of golfers are actually, they just like drinking.

• 50:18Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. Absolutely. Um, all right. Talk to me about Bitcoin. Uh, and the context here is Marty Bent, which many people in the Bitcoin community will know, uh, used to work at Barstool and he red pilled a good number of people at Barstool. You were one of them. So tell us kind of like, what was the first time you ever heard of Bitcoin? What were those conversations like Marty, uh, like as well?

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, you're the first person to ever say, tell me what you think about Bitcoin because I'm used to people saying, Caleb, shut up about Bitcoin. Caleb, shut up. We don't care. We get it. We know.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  So Marty was hired at Barstool. We called him Bit, I know him as Bitcoin Marty. You know him as Marcus Dent? I know him as Bitcoin Marty. Bitcoin Marty got hired at Barstool literally as he had like some type of fake job that we were paying him for on paper. His job was the crypto guy because Dave was getting into crypto. And we had another guy named Light Switch Lou, uh, who's also, he's also doesn't work at Barstool anymore. Who's the one who knew Marty and brought him in. He was in crypto and then at, at Barstool, Marty got me in the crypto, maybe a few other guys.

• 51:33Speaker 02

  And I had like the most classic story getting into Bitcoin because Marty comes along. I'm I meet him like what's this guy's deal that this is Bitcoin Marty. Well, what's Bitcoin? He starts doing telling me about Bitcoin. I'm like, all right, I'll throw a few bucks at it. Cool. Well, then it was what 2017 in the fall. And so I throw like whatever 100 bucks at Bitcoin. All of a sudden my 100 bucks is, you know, 150 bucks. Pretty quick, like within a couple, like a week or something. It was like right when it was going off. So I was like, oh, this is like, I gotta get on this train now. Like this is, this train is leaving the station and I had to put everything I own into Bitcoin.

• 52:16Speaker 02

  So this is my personality. You can already tell by going all the way and go. I take all my money to have, all of it. Here's all the money I have. And I put it on the I put it in Bitcoin, every single dollar that I had to my name. I wasn't tied up in something else. Well, then Bitcoin starts kind of slowing down, right? It didn't crash, but it was like slowing down. I'm not talking about the over the course of months. I mean, like a couple of days it was slowing down. And I wasn't getting that, that, that hit. I was like, the hit of adrenaline when it was going up, I was like, watching coin market cap.com and all of a sudden I'm seeing Bitcoin, you know, plus, plus point oh four growth. And then I'm seeing all these other coins go 32%, 25%, whatever.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  So I, and I asked Marty, I say Bitcoin Marty, what's the deal with these other coins? Why, why are they going up so much? Are they going to be the big ones? And I don't know, at this point, he's giving me the speech about what cryptocurrency is, what blockchain, blockchain technology is, what a decentralized currency could mean for humanity. And all at this point I'm thinking about is the green plus however much percent. And he says, Caleb, dude, do not go into these altcoins. He's like, if I can give you any piece of advice, it would be hold your Bitcoin. Do not go into these altcoins. If you want to go into the altcoins. This Monero might have some value because it's, you know, of its secret nature and it's still, you know, whatever.

• 53:44Speaker 02

  He's like, but I wouldn't even, he's like, if you want to put some money in that, okay, if you want to diversify. But he's like, I'm telling you, man, these altcoins ain't where it's at. Says, all right, Bitcoin Marty, I said, you've got me far enough. I'm done taking your advice. You got me into Bitcoin. I've, I've, I've used you and your brain. I'm, Kale's brain's taking over now. So I put all the money that was in Bitcoin, move it to the altcoins. Right? And I'm not talking about like the altcoins that are, uh, at, at first it was like Ripple and Ethereum. Well, then those get born, you know, and then you see the ones that are hitting 300%.

• 54:23Speaker 02

  So before you know it, I get carried away. I got all my monies tied up in these random and, and I've got the ones that you have to get a, a download like software onto your computer just so you can get on to the, uh, the exchange where they hold this coin. I was in some, I was, it was like Q Cash, something that was in China and it was like, you had to download their service, thing was called like Liquid. It has since like went out of business and they like, they sent an email like, if you had money here, sorry, you can no longer access it. Anyways, all, all you need to know is that I've moved my money over here. Bitcoin tanks, obviously the altcoins tank even worse. I lost everything.

• 55:07Speaker 02

  I lost every dollar of everything that I had. Boom, poof, out the window cryptocurrency. And that's how I got into Bitcoin.

• 55:17Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. You're still here though. So explain what happens after you lose everything.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  I lose everything and I have to laugh at myself because I'm like, I'm an idiot, proven time and time again, idiot. Um, never cease to amaze myself, idiot.

• 55:35Speaker 02

  Then it goes on Bitcoin kind of goes down. I can't remember what it was at at the time. I want to say it was like 4,000 or something low. And uh, and so and Bitcoin Marty, you know, he's popular at Barstool whenever Bitcoin's going up. Cause I think Dave had bought some, Big Cat bought some. But then Bitcoin crashes. You know, I don't think anyone's gonna say it to his face, but you know, you kind of have a little bit of like, you know, this guy. Got everyone on Bitcoin. We all lost all our money. Um, and anyway, he ended up leaving. He's and and but I love Marty. So. And it wasn't, he wasn't fired because of Bitcoin. I can't, I think he left on his own volition. I think he took another job. But everyone was like freaking Bitcoin Marty lost us all this money. So.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  Probably a year later, I was like, or maybe even six months later, I was like, let's go get a beer and let's hang out. Cause I haven't seen you. I miss you. So we're talking. I'm like, so what's going on Bitcoin dude? Like, tell me what you think now. And he just really, he talked to me about one, how he had always felt the same thing. Uh, about it. His thoughts hadn't changed, but then he's really talking to me about. Some of the deeper issues with Bitcoin and and some of the what he believes is are, you know, some of the progresses like society could make from from adopting. Bitcoin and he gave me some kind of materials I could look at and look more into and and for the first time ever. He told me about um, kind of the the.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  Stages of currency that um, the United States has went through. Uh, over the years and how basically right now we're not backed up by anything. And. He really kind of like put some real thoughts in my mind that were outside of the just the numbers going up. And so and he kind of gave me some stuff to look at. So. I go and I look at it and I'm doing more research. And so I started buying in a little bit. You know, at low and I'm like, you know, I kind of do still think this is this, it is something. Um, and then I kind of just slowly getting in, I'm kind of watching it go up and then. I'm really thinking more about it and I don't have, and I know your show, this is why I'm a fan of your show is you have. Experts come on and they have so much extensive knowledge of the uh, what's what's happening. That's not me.

• 57:50Speaker 02

  But I do think I have a little bit of knowledge about, or at least I have a feel. It's more of a feel thing. Of what's popular and trends and things that are uh that have legs, you know, with what's coming up. Whether it's like we get on, we got on TikTok really early. Not really, really early, but like, once we saw it, we were on TikTok. Uh, and I say we, me and another guy who I do a thinker account with. Or a daily fact account. Or something like TikTok, or even like a new band, you know? You see something like this has legs, something about it is exciting and it's. And it, and it, it makes sense on a lot of levels and I could see this being big. Um, that's kind of how I felt about Bitcoin still, and I still do to this day.

• 58:33Speaker 02

  And it's the main reason why I'm in it is because. I look at Bitcoin and I say, no, there's obviously some issues here. Uh, it's obviously very speculative, but. When you look at the next generation of kids, I have a 10 year old, 10 years younger than me brother. And his world is so different than mine with. Technology and, and every, you know, all of their relationships. My little brother's really good about it, getting with his friends, being with them on a personal level, but I see his friends too. It's all phone, everything's phone and I'm kind of in the generation where, or, or my age group is. It's a lot of phone, but there's also a lot of personal interaction. 10 years younger than me, it's almost 90% phone.

• 59:16Speaker 02

  It's they talk to each other or Snapchat in the same room or. Everything that's happening is digital. 10 years younger than that, I mean, they have no chance of human to human interaction how we used to do it. So I'm thinking about, all right, these kids. Are they going to think about? When they think about money or they think about an asset, like I personally, and I don't know up from down, so don't take my word for it. I'm just telling you what I think. Um, I kind of think of Bitcoin has more legs as an asset than it does as a currency. Just for the reason that when you tell, if I told my little brother about the value of gold. It would be the actual gold, it's like hard to get, it's like, what do you get a gold bar?

• 59:59Speaker 02

  It doesn't really make sense. It's not like Apple, it's not intuitive. It's like, you'd have to do more explaining to, to explain to someone, this is gold, this is how you get it. This is why it's valuable than you would have to do for Bitcoin. And pretty much at the end of the day, you're coming back to the same argument of why is, why is gold valuable? If I really had to explain to my little brother or someone who's younger than him, I would eventually have to say, well, it's basically just valuable because everyone else says it is, you know? That's the same thing for Bitcoin because there is no inherent value of, you know, holding a bar or,

• 1:00:37Speaker 02

  it's, I think it just for people who are in the digital age. Whereas people now and older than me probably think about, well, it's just digital. So it's really not there. It's, it's ephemeral. It's in the floating in the air, you know? It doesn't make sense. It's not, it's, it's not real. It's not grounded in real life. My take is that life grounded in real life is disappearing very quickly. And I think 10 years from now, 15 years from now, the amount of life that's happening as we understand it in actual, you know, it's, it's not that there's a digital world over here on the right. And then everything that is in the digital world is just a reflection of what's happening in our actual reality.

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  I think that the reality of what's actually happening, what actually matters is going to be almost entirely in the digital world. For example, right now, you look at like a Twitter. Twitter is a social media that you kind of report. You report back on your thoughts about what's happening in our material world or in our reality. But then you look at something like, which I think Twitter's on the way out. I do, I hate Twitter. It's getting so terrible. Uh, I get on it because it work. If it wasn't for work, I wouldn't even be on Twitter. But TikTok, you know, I don't know where it's heading. It looks like it's kind of where, with President Trump right now. But TikTok, it's not a reflection of what's going on. In the real world, it is its own world.

• 1:02:06Speaker 02

  TikTok is its own entire world, similar to YouTube. YouTube is, you go into YouTube and it's like, that is its own reality. It's not a report back necessarily on what's happening in the real world. So I'm just thinking about the future. I see it as that we're going to be living inside the YouTube and the TikToks and just the internet sphere that is going to be the basis of our reality. And it makes so much more sense intuitively to have something that's a store of value like Bitcoin that exists and is and and works with that world opposed to a gold that

• 1:02:51Speaker 02

  you know, I'm not saying gold's not going to be valuable, but you know, it just doesn't make quite as much, I guess, intuitive sense.

• 1:03:00Anthony Pompliano?

  It's yeah, it's almost like, um, it's really interesting to hear you say this because you're the first person I've heard articulated this way, but I think you're dead on in that. Uh, there's an entire generation of people that their default for value is in the analog world, right? So kind of this idea like the digital world isn't valuable. It's not real like you kids are crazy. But when you flip around to the youngest generations, the default is all of the values in the digital world. And so I joke all the time, you know,

• 1:03:28Speaker 02

  You said that so much better than I did.

• 1:03:31Anthony Pompliano?

  No, no, listen, but I I think that, you know, the best example is like, how many people see when it comes to work? Like somebody like wants them to print out a piece of paper, sign it and then like fax it or copy it back. Right? I think there's a whole generation of people like, that's stupid. Just send it to me digitally. Right? And like that, like it's such a better process. And so that mentality is going to permeate into even assets and things like that. Um, and also, what's the difference between buying a stock on an app on your phone versus buying some other asset, right? The experience is very similar and yes, the asset itself is different. But I think that, uh, there's an entire generation of people that are growing.

• 1:04:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Growing up where maybe your dad or my dad or somebody else would call like a broker and be like, you know, hey, can you buy X, Y, Z, you know, asset for me? And it was a relationship where you were talking to a human in order to get access to something. Now, I don't need to talk to anybody, right? I literally just go right into the phone and I can do all kinds of things, including send you money. I can buy things. I can do all of this, never leave my couch and not have to talk to anybody. And so naturally the assets, I think that interface with that are going to be attractive. Right? Because it's just a different way of growing up from a technology standpoint.

• 1:04:49Speaker 02

  A hundred percent. I, you said it 10 times better than I said it, but it really is. The world is shifting to, you know, where the, where the most value, whether it's, you know, an asset or it's a financial value, but just it's in it. I think it's kind of unfortunate because I don't necessarily know that it's right, or I don't necessarily know that it's good, but I think that just if you look at where things are trending, people are putting more and more value of what, you know, what they think about themselves. What self-value is starting to align with the analog world and, you know, value of, of what is important in life, you know, is like, you know, what, what should I do today?

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Well, it's not necessarily, I think it's trending about what I should do today. And what is that's going to the value of my day's time, my time, the value of my time is starting to go analog world. So it's like all value is trending in that direction. So it only makes sense that, you know, a store of value would also live in that world. And I, like I said, I don't necessarily think that that's a good thing, but I do think that's where things are trending.

• 1:05:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And I think the part that that's really interesting too, is if you go back, uh, obviously there's now the, the infamous video that Dave made, uh, about Bitcoin in 2017.

• 1:06:07Speaker 02

  It's so good. It still plays.

• 1:06:09Anthony Pompliano?

  And like the part about it is he's just so honest. He's like, I don't even know what Bitcoins are like. I don't, and you know, and you can tell that, uh, whether it's Marty or somebody else has told him enough where he's got kind of pieces of it, right? But then he's talking about like, I don't know, somebody's just got a computer and they're just mining the Bitcoins. And then, you know, they just keep doing this. And what you start to realize is like, ultimately what's driving his interest at that exact moment is like, the price is going up. And I think even he says something like, you know, everyone's getting rich, but I'm not going to stand by and let everyone else get rich. But now, all of a sudden, as price moves, people become interested, and then some portion of those people get educated, right?

• 1:06:47Anthony Pompliano?

  And like, you pretty much outlined a perfect example where you're staring at a screen, and when things are going up thirty, forty, fifty, you know, three hundred percent or whatever, there's just a certain portion of the population that looks and it's like, hey, I'm not going to stand by. But then, once you actually understand what are these things and kind of what is the value, then it's like, oh, you know what? This makes a lot of sense, right? And then they kind of, then they're converted in terms of that thought process and they stick around. And so I think that like, that just is a natural market cycle and the price movements are the reason why people come in, right? And whether that's good or not, it's just a fact of life and ends up being valuable, I think, in the long.

• 1:07:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, the volatility is like the best PR team ever. It really is. I mean, even if it's going down, if it's a huge crash, it's like, you know, it's great PR for Bitcoin.

• 1:07:39Speaker 02

  I one hundred percent agree with you.

• 1:07:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Let me ask this, in terms of when you think of investing, obviously, the Bitcoin story you told us, what do you, like, what else do you do? Do you think about stocks or cash or real estate? Like, how do you think about investing in general? And really, from the perspective of, I'm only a couple of years older than you. I think a lot of people would look at kind of these content creators, whether they work at Barstool or elsewhere, and they kind of just write everyone off, like, oh, these millennial kids, they don't know what they're doing. You know, of course, they're just buying Bitcoin and Tesla, right? It's kind of like the joke in the circles of older folks. How do you think about investing for saving and kind of like, what do you do?

• 1:08:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I can tell you, I can't tell you what's the best thing to do, but I can tell you what I do.

• 1:08:28Speaker 02

  So I don't know what's probably the smartest thing to do. What I do is, you know, I'm involved in my work 401K. I don't want to be. It's the one thing I make, I like make myself do, and I do an IRA too. So it's like, I don't want to be, I actually didn't do it for a couple of years, even though it was available to me, which is probably dumb, but, because I just feel like... I hate, I hate giving that up, that money and then that investment that seems so like with the world we're living in and how fast things are going, it seems like, I'm like, there's no chance that this is gonna be worth it. But I do it as like, that's my safe play. That's like my, alright, you're doing this because you, you're doing something in life that's safe. Um, so I do

• 1:09:13Speaker 02

  do that. Uh, I do hold Bitcoin. And, uh, and then, uh, I, and the next thing I wanna do is I do wanna, uh, buy something, you know, whether it's land or, uh, uh, you know, a house, and not, not a house to, to live in, but, um, you know, whether it's, I know some, I have some friends who are like, starting getting to like owning properties, renting out properties. It's something I'm interested in, I'm reading about right now. I don't know enough about it to, to guarantee. I'm just looking at my, my books down here, but, um, I'm reading about right now, trying to learn more about it. But the number one thing that I invest in and, uh, is, is literally, uh, I put back into

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  myself. And just, just in terms of, uh, you know, what foods I'm eating, um, you know, what I'm willing to pay for, for, you know, physical training, or if it's, you know, a mentor or a class, or, um, that's where, and I'm not saying like, that's how I'm thinking about it. If you really look on paper, where does my money go? It really does go towards things that you could consider an investment, quote unquote, just back into myself, um, hoping that, you know, that I'm gonna become a better person and I'm gonna become, uh, a little bit more equipped to deal with the

• 1:10:31Speaker 02

  circumstances of where you really make money, which is, um, you know, in everyday decisions. And, you know, for me, in my profession, like creatively, like, you can't

• 1:10:45Speaker 02

  conjure up a creative idea. It's it's not how it works. So you really just have to, what I've learned is you really have to put yourself in the best position. And if it does happen that you're you did your part, you can only do so much. You can't force a creative idea, a good one. You really just, and for me, that just means, you know, it's it's eating healthy, it's getting good sleep, it's exercising, it's just doing the stuff everyone knows, meditating. It's just it's stuff that everyone knows, but no one wants to do. And and that stuff does cost money if you want to do it right. So For sure. So that's that's honestly, if you just look at like where I'm investing,

• 1:11:25Speaker 02

  that's where my my actual the most money goes is is that kind of stuff. And then, you know, I do like, I got in on Robin Hood when the stock market crashed for coronavirus. I'm I'm pretty much out.

• 1:11:38Speaker 02

  Because I don't like, it makes me nervous, like what's going on in stock. Once it started, I I made a ton of money because I just because of my timing, not because I'm smart. But obviously it crashed. I went in, I made a lot of money because it's rebounded so quickly. I got out pretty much whenever it stopped making sense why things were going up. I didn't like that. Obviously, Dave's still crushing. Or he says he is, I don't know. And then, but I'm out of that. I still have, and of course, you know, I'm I like pin the company that owns us like I'm

• 1:12:14Speaker 02

  I'm in pen, so that that type of thing. But really,

• 1:12:19Speaker 02

  the most of my investment is is in trying to, because I think I'm going to personally make more money wise, I'm going to make more money from like doing a really good job at Barstool. Then I'm probably going to make from hitting some stock or something like that. If I can really do, I mean, people saw the Call Her Daddy saga, if people remember that, and they were like astounded with what these girls are making. You know, I'm not making that type of money, but it's possible. And and Dave's the type of guy who would be more than happy to pay me a million, yeah, like these guys would be more than happy to pay you whatever you're worth. It's not like they're trying to rip you off or so if I can make myself valuable and I can do a really good job for them,

• 1:13:03Speaker 02

  then I'll get paid and I'm gonna make more from that than I'm ever gonna make from. I would say Tesla, but Tesla's going up pretty good.

• 1:13:12Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. No, and it makes sense, right? It's if you can increase your earning power, that is probably the number one lever you can pull, right? And so it's actually incredibly intelligent in terms of kind of what you do for a living. And if you can improve that, I think it ends up being a very smart investment. Before I wrap up, I ask everyone the same two questions. The first is, what's the most important book you've ever read?

• 1:13:39Speaker 02

  Whoa, um, I would say the one that had the biggest impact on me probably was the book about Steve Jobs by Walter Isaacson. Because because it's a great book and because Steve Jobs was so fascinating and and and just how he lived his life and it was just that part of it also hit me at a time in my life where I was, you know, I was in college and I was making, it was towards the end of my college run and I'm making a lot of decisions and you're kind of, I was kind of in that point of my life where it's one of the many points of your life, I guess,

• 1:14:21Speaker 02

  where you're kind of, you're very open and receptive to some like a book or where a book can really can change your life. It's like when you're in like middle school, a song can really change your life. You know, you really start living by that Justin Timberlake song, whatever you know, that's that becomes your mantra. Well, then when you're in college, a book can really change your life. So I would say I've read a lot of, you know, books that I love, but I would say that that one really changed my perspective in a lot of ways about

• 1:14:50Speaker 02

  how I was approaching life, just because probably at what point I read it.

• 1:14:56Anthony Pompliano?

  Love that answer. One more question that you get to ask me when to finish up, but this one's more fun. Aliens believer or non-believer?

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  Well, I don't think you have a choice anymore. You might want to change that question.

• 1:15:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Why?

• 1:15:09Speaker 02

  I mean, they're proven real. It's like, uh.

• 1:15:14Anthony Pompliano?

  They're basically here, right? They basically showed up already.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  They've been here. Yeah, it's like old news. It's like no one even cares. It's like. That that's hilarious. Uh, yeah, I'm definitely in on aliens. I've been in, first of all, I've been in on aliens before. Um, before it it was popular, but now if you're not in on aliens, you're kind of like. You know, I I my parents are like, uh. Used to use them as an example. I don't think they were in on aliens at all. But now I think that they're in on aliens because I think you have, it's like, no, we we've discovered spaceships and also here's a video of them. It's like.

• 1:15:50Anthony Pompliano?

  It it's almost like the people who are into aliens before they were the conspiracy theorists, but now if you're not into aliens, you're a conspiracy theorist, right? It's like switched.

• 1:15:59Speaker 02

  It's it's very tough. It's like, uh. Yeah. One of the things I kind of always tell, uh, I think about too is like. People who like are like, don't believe in evolution, right? It's like for me. That's it's pretty proven. It's like, I think I read or something. It's like evolution is just as proven is that H two O is water. You know, if you it's like, are you gonna believe? You if you're gonna believe H two O is water, then it's like just as proven that evolution happened, but there are still, and I'm from the South, and I guess you are too. You know, there it's still not super popular. It wasn't even taught to me in school growing up. The first time I even heard about evolution was in college.

• 1:16:38Speaker 02

  Right? I'm I'm studying abroad in Edinburgh, Scotland, and they and that's like where Charles Darwin's from and all the and, uh, and I was like. Oh, like I never heard about this. Evolution? I learned it when I was 21 years old. So anyways. Uh, the aliens are kind of same deal. It's turning out to be. It's like, no. They're here. They've been here. They might be among us now, but we don't really, you know. We don't talk about it because it's it's scary.

• 1:17:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Here's this video. No, no problem.

• 1:17:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, right. It's obviously. Yes, of course, aliens.

• 1:17:10Anthony Pompliano?

  What uh, what one question you got for me to finish up?

• 1:17:13Speaker 02

  Okay, okay. Well, first of all, if we're gonna flip the tables, I'll say that I'm a big fan of yours. I told, and that's how I ended up doing this. It's not because I think you were so interested in my Bitcoin takes, but I actually reached out to you and said, hey, man, I'm a big fan because. I just, I hate Twitter. I told you that. And uh it just because it's it's just not becoming enjoyable now. It's like it's I don't even need to explain. People who are on Twitter know what it's like. But there are a few people, a few people who I enjoy their tweets. I really get enjoyment and they're from different worlds or different things. Dave, my boss is one of them. I always will look and see what he's tweeting about. He's always cracks me up. And then you're another one. Just because, you know, for me, the

• 1:17:54Speaker 02

  Bitcoin world, I know you live in it. It's so far removed from me. And so I like to see what you got going on with. I love whenever you do the uh the the bull run tweet.

• 1:18:06Speaker 02

  The bull run tweet is my favorite tweet on the on the internet. So um yeah, so I'm a huge fan of yours. So I'll butter you up with that. And I'll ask you this. What do you think is the biggest obstacle in the way of Bitcoin becoming something that is more for the adoption of Bitcoin?

• 1:18:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Just time. I think it's one of these things where in my mind, it's inevitable, right? For a lot of the reasons you described earlier. And I think ultimately, there's like this global game theory going on where governments are just going to print so much money and there's going to be so many manipulated economies and currencies that eventually people are just going to start opting into something that can't be manipulated. I don't know how long that takes. It's not gonna happen tomorrow, but you know, could be 10 years away, 20 years away, whatever it is. But but I think that we've got to remember kind of the rise of currencies or assets in general take a long time, right? And Bitcoin's got not only the time obstacle, but it also needs time for people to build the infrastructure and kind of all the things necessary to make it easier, right?

• 1:19:13Anthony Pompliano?

  So you can't send Bitcoin back and forth between these, you know, random string of letters and numbers and people's hearts are like jumping out of their skin because they're scared they're gonna send it to the wrong person, right? You just gotta like all this stuff's got to improve. And so it just takes time, which for humans, I think we hate that answer because it's like we want to know like what could we do? But ultimately, it's just like we just got to keep doing what we're doing and be patient. And you know, look, Bitcoin went From you know, a third of a cent to say like eleven thousand dollars right now. Like, that's insane over, you know, ten, eleven years. Um, but I think that that's just getting started, right? And it's kind of like if you went, you looked at the internet in the early nineties, you were like, wow, I could send a message to somebody.

• 1:19:57Anthony Pompliano?

  And now you look and like you and I live, you know, ninety percent of our life on our phones, on the internet, you know, talking to people and doing all kinds of crazy stuff. Like, I think Bitcoin's very similar.

• 1:20:06Speaker 02

  You don't think that, uh, maybe my biggest worry is, is I know the government can't control it. Um, but, you know, I think governments could come together and really hurt the value, don't you think?

• 1:20:21Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that, uh, there's probably less likelihood that they'll coordinate. But I definitely think that there will be unilateral actions. So like the United States could ban ownership or another country could ban ownership or something like that. They did it to gold before, right? So it's definitely an option. Uh, the only difference here, I think, is if a country, especially a global superpower did that. I actually, so I use the example, United States bans ownership. I think that Russia and China and these other people who don't necessarily like the US dollar system would immediately get together and be like, hey, let's adopt the thing that the US isn't going to use. And then we can basically like break the world off onto this new system. Uh, and the US will be, you know, at a disadvantage.

• 1:21:03Anthony Pompliano?

  So I do think that there's like some game theory that plays out of just like the first countries to adopt it end up having an advantage. And then the first companies to like ban it end up being at a complete disadvantage. And so, uh, what everyone seems to be doing is like, um, nobody wants to take, like be the first to move. Right? So it's kind of like everyone's like standing in like the OK Corral at high noon, you know? Guns are at their hip, they haven't drawn them yet, but like the second one person starts shooting, everyone's going to start shooting. And so it's like this weird thing where we're just kind of like waiting to see who's the first to make a move.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  Right. Can I ask you one more? I know I only get one question, but I have one more question for you. Cause I asked this to Bitcoin Marty and I wasn't happy with his answer.

• 1:21:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Alright.

• 1:21:45Speaker 02

  Not that he answered it, but I was like, I, he, he didn't convince me, right? This is my other, so from my perspective, my idiot perspective of Bitcoin. My two, uh, worries about it are one, I worry about, you know, I don't think that the banks and government is, they're cool with it now where it's at now. But if it gets big, I don't think they're going to be cool with it. And then my other worry is this. And let's see if I can do a better job of explaining this thought. So. If Bitcoin comes out and it's completely, it's kind of capitalistic, right? It's, it's, it's, and, and a lot of people like Marty think that Bitcoin as our financial system could solve a lot of problems, right?

• 1:22:28Speaker 02

  So if it comes out and it's kind of like, if the government doesn't interfere with it, it's. My worry is this. If that type of society exists, no matter what it's, if it's financial or if it's back in the old days and it's, and it's men trying to compete for the women, right? What ends up happening is there's a top dog that says for the women back in the tribal days. There's the alpha. And then that alpha doesn't get. Uh. One girl, he doesn't get the most attractive girl. He doesn't get the most attractive girl and her, uh, her sister or whatever. He gets every single girl.

• 1:23:14Speaker 02

  That's how it used to work. The top dog in, in the society gets every woman. This is way, way back, you know?

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  In Bitcoin, see if I can bring this full circle here. Uh. These are a lot of my thoughts too, or like they, they sound idiotic, but they have good points. In Bitcoin, wouldn't the top dog, if it's unregulated? End up with not a lot of Bitcoin? With that, not, uh, you know, a majority of Bitcoin. Wouldn't they end up, the top, most richest guys in the world, end up with virtually all the Bitcoin? Wouldn't it eventually flow all the way back? It would, even people like, people like me who have a little bit, wouldn't mine eventually flow into them?

• 1:24:04Speaker 02

  And then they, basically when it's all said and done, you have the, the 1% of the 1% of the 1% has 99% of all the Bitcoin?

• 1:24:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, so look at the fiat legacy system, the top, you know, 1% or half a percent, they control like 80, 90% of the world's wealth. So what you just described essentially it happened, you know, in the legacy finance.

• 1:24:25Speaker 02

  Right, because that's because this is, and to my point, this, that's what happens in, in, it's just natural for the top people to get richer, the rich get richer.

• 1:24:34Anthony Pompliano?

  For sure. I think in the Bitcoin world, is it possible? Sure. But the one thing that Bitcoin has that the fiat currencies don't have is you're financially incentivized to spend your dollars, right? Because they become less valuable over time because they're being devalued or through inflation. With this, you know that if you hold on to the Bitcoin, because it's only 21 million, it's deflationary, meaning that it'll get more valuable over time, right? Because as long as demand increases, fixed supply will increase in price. And so what ends up happening is now you're incentivized not to spend or not to be a consumer and to be a saver. And so there's this weird dynamic where in the legacy world, investors are rewarded

• 1:25:15Anthony Pompliano?

  and savers are punished. Now, the saver actually can win in a Bitcoin denominated world. And so I think that's one of the key differences. That doesn't necessarily mean that there's not going to be a disparity between, you know, some people with lots and lots of Bitcoin and some people with not a lot of Bitcoin. But I think that that just mirrors, you know, the system that we already have.

• 1:25:36Speaker 02

  Right. Interesting. Okay. All right, dude. I appreciate you letting me get two questions off.

• 1:25:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course. Where, for like the three people who are watching this who don't know who you are, where, where can they find you on the internet?

• 1:25:49Speaker 02

  I'm sure there's more than that. But, Caleb Pressley on, on all social media is just my name. But, you know, and I'm doing stuff for Barstool and I'm around, I'm around. Hopefully in 10 years from now, you blog on, so whatever kind of virtual reality is going on and I'll be, you can watch, you know, PGA Tour, hopefully.

• 1:26:14Anthony Pompliano?

  Well, we're cheering for you, man. We'll have to do this again in the future.

• 1:26:17Speaker 02

  Absolutely. I really appreciate it, man. Keep doing it. Keep up the hard work. Keep hodling. And, and just remind people whenever Bitcoin starts to go up, please remind them what to do in a bull market.