Pioneering Your Path & Achieving Entrepreneurial Greatness

The Summit of Greatness is back! Buy your tickets today – summitofgreatness.com – James Clear’s book, Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones is an awesome source of information, and it’s been many years in the making. In fact, James Clear told me about how this book (and his writing career as a whole) is really the result of his taking his own advice. Jaspreet Singh, otherwise known as the Minority Mindset, is a qualified attorney, investor, and CEO of both Market Briefs and Market Insider. Although he didn’t receive any formal financial education, he is on a mission to make financial education fun and accessible. His brand has helped countless people get out of debt, start investing, and create a plan for building wealth. For more than 25 years, Sukhinder Singh Cassidy has been a leading tech entrepreneur and CEO who’s grown, scaled, and advised for companies like Google, Amazon, and more. She’s currently the Founder and Chairman of theBoardlist, a talent marketplace focused on putting diverse leaders into key executive positions. She also serves on the board of directors at Urban Outfitters and Upstart. Guy Raz has been studying entrepreneurs for several years. You may know him as the voice of the incredible podcast How I Built This on NPR. I was so excited to have him on The School of Greatness to give his insight on the world of entrepreneurship and what sets successful entrepreneurs apart. In this episode you will learn,The key factor that distinguishes exceptional entrepreneurs and sets them on a path to success. Whether achieving success or maintaining it poses a greater challenge and what it takes to excel in both aspects. The motivations behind individuals in business, whether they prioritize the mission or financial gains. The significance of failure in the entrepreneurial journey and how it contributes to personal and professional growth. Common misconceptions surrounding the entrepreneurial lifestyle and gain insights into the realities of being an entrepreneur. For more information go to www.lewishowes.com/1495For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960Links to full episodes:James Clear – https://link.chtbl.com/1395-podJaspreet Singh – https://link.chtbl.com/1327-podSukhinder Singh Cassidy – https://link.chtbl.com/1150-podGuy Raz – https://lewishowes.com/podcast/an-entrepreneurs-guide-to-success-with-guy-raz/ Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Lewis Howes?

  Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection. I've got an invitation for you. Join me at this year's Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness. This is the one time a year that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful transformative weekend. People come from all over the world and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Jaspreet Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Sanchero, and many more. You'll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.

• 0:44Lewis Howes?

  So if you're ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com/summit2023. Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I'll see you there.

• 1:01James Clear?

  You want to stack the deck in your favor and design an environment or join groups and tribes where your desired behavior is normal, where your desired behavior is easy. But it's going to be so much more productive and easy to stick to the habit because you're in a space and a context that's designed to support it.

• 1:20Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 1:44Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to this special masterclass. We brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today. It's going to be powerful, so let's go ahead and dive in.

• 2:02Lewis Howes?

  What are three to five non-negotiable habits that every human being should? And if they could do on a daily basis, it would improve their lives and everyone's life around them. What are those non-negotiable habits on a daily basis we should do?

• 2:18James Clear?

  Yeah, three habits that would improve everybody's lives on a daily basis. It's so hard to give an answer like that because obviously everybody's, you know, dealing with different stuff. But there are a few things I think I do genuinely think most people would benefit from. So the easy answer would be, or the easy way to frame this would be reading, but I don't think it actually has to be reading books. I think it just is the habit of learning something new. So if you, you know, listening to podcasts, reading a book, watching a good YouTube video, whatever, it doesn't matter what version of that it is. But if you go to bed a little bit smarter than you were when you woke up, that's going to improve your life. And just having this thirst for lifelong learning,

• 2:59James Clear?

  having an eagerness to learn or discover something new each day, it's going to pay off in a huge way in the long run, no matter what topics you're interested in. So a habit of some small habit of daily learning, let's just call it learn something new for 10 minutes each day. Some sort of physical activity, you know, this is, I think, an important realization about all habits, which is, in most areas of life, there might not be a thousand ways to do something, but there's almost always more than one way. And, you know, I like working out in the gym, but not everybody wants to train like a bodybuilder, and that's fine. You know, like you can kayak, or go running, or rock climbing, or ride

• 3:43James Clear?

  a bike, or whatever. There's like a bazillion ways to live an active lifestyle. And you should choose the version of your habits that is most exciting to you. Like, in a way, that's the first biggest hurdle to clear when you're building habits is, have you selected a habit that you're genuinely interested in, that you're actually engaged with? Because if it's something that you actually care about, there are going to be like endless opportunities for improvement. If you're not actually care, if you don't actually care about it, if you're just doing it because you kind of feel like society's encouraging you to do it, or your parents want you to do it, or your peers are kind of subtly saying, hey, this is something you should do. Then even the obvious improvements are going to feel like a chore, you know?

• 4:24James Clear?

  So let's call it 10 minutes of learning something new, some sort of physical activity, whatever is exciting or interesting to you. And then I think the other one is a process, a habit of reflection and review. So it's very easy in life to be so busy or working on stuff heads down, or just have the next task come up, whether it's things you gotta do for your kids or responsibilities at work, that you never take even five minutes to step back and just breathe and ask yourself, am I working on the right thing? You know, am I directing my attention and energy to the highest and best use?

• 5:04James Clear?

  And boy, there is nothing so wasteful as working hard on the wrong thing. You know, like so many people work really hard, but are you directing your energy and attention to the best spot? And so the only way to discover that, like I know I'm not smart enough to figure it out on the first time, like I can't, I can't just sit down, give me five minutes and be like, oh, this is exactly what I should be focused on. It takes iteration, it takes refinement, it takes a process of reflecting and reviewing and looking back on the previous day and be like, hey, was that a good way to spend my time? Like, did I live a good life today? And the more that you do that, the more you start to course correct. And the other tricky thing, and the reason this needs to be a habit that you revisit consistently,

• 5:47James Clear?

  I don't necessarily think it needs to be daily, but consistently, is the answer changes over time. You know, like what you want shifts over time, the situation you're in or the resources you have or the time you have shifts over time. And so you need to keep coming back to this. Maybe it's every week, maybe it's once a year, but whatever it is, you need a chance to reflect and review and to try to ask yourself. Is there a better way to do this? Am I working on the right thing? Am I working on what actually matters? Um, am I directing my attention and energy in the highest and best way?

• 6:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And how, how important is accountability then in your mind? When we are taking on these new habits for ourselves? Is it important to have self accountability, buddy accountability, coach accountability? You know, social accountability? Do those support habits forming these consistent habits? And what other factors are in play there?

• 6:47James Clear?

  They definitely support them um, or, or hinder them potentially depending on the, the people you're around and the, you know, the group that you're part of. Ultimately, the form of accountability that matters the most is self accountability. It's almost impossible to exceed the standards that you have for yourself. Like that almost always sets the baseline. You know, if your, your beliefs or your standards are almost always going to be the limit on what you allow yourself to do or what you accept. Now it's easier to stick to high standards in a supportive environment than it is in a, uh, an unsupportive one. So there are a lot of things that can influence whether you want to maintain that standard. But ultimately the standard you hold yourself to is going to be the most important thing.

• 7:29James Clear?

  Now, having said that, I do think that the social environment, the tribes that you belong to, influence your habits in a really dramatic way. So if I had to pick one topic that I think is even more important now than I realized when I was writing the book, I would probably say the social environment. You know, we're all part of multiple tribes. Some of those tribes are like really large, like what it means to be American or what it means to be Australian. Some of those tribes are small, like what it means to be a neighbor on your street or a member of the local CrossFit gym. But all of those tribes, large and small, they have a set of expectations. You know, they have a set of social norms. They have a set of beliefs that, hey, this is how you act in this group. This is what's normal and expected.

• 8:14James Clear?

  And the more that your habits align with the expectations of the group, the easier it is to stick with them, the more like appealing and attractive they are because they signal to the people around you, hey, look, I belong to, you know, like I'm part of this. And the more that they go against the grain of the tribes that you belong to, the harder they are to stick to, because you start to get criticized for them. And if people have to choose between, you know what? I have habits that I don't really love, but I fit in. I belong, I'm part of something. Or I have the habits that I want to have, but I'm cast out. I'm ostracized, I'm criticized. I mean, the desire to belong will often overpower the desire to improve. You know, belonging will, loneliness will lose to belonging.

• 8:59James Clear?

  And so you need to get those two things aligned and join groups where your desired behavior is the normal behavior.

• 9:06Lewis Howes?

  It is so true, and it doesn't mean you can't make it happen. There's a great example that came up this week. Someone on my team on our team call said, I asked, I asked everyone on the call. I said, what is one thing you want to let go of next year for your life? Like, what's one thing that's not serving you right now that you want to let go of? And this person said, I want to let go of drinking, drinking alcohol, like, or at least drinking as frequently as I do with the social circles that I'm in. And I thought that was interesting because I've never been drunk in my life. I don't drink. It's not, it's not a part of my identity, right? I never did it from sports and then after sports, I was just like, why? It didn't make sense to me. Nothing good or bad about it, just wasn't fitting my values personally. I have other problems, which is sugar, right?

• 9:51Lewis Howes?

  It's like, I've got that, that's my vice, right? So no judgment here, but I was just like, this never stopped for me. You know, in every, until maybe the last four or five years, where anytime I'd go out in college, after college, then the business world, restaurants, networking events, like all that stuff, people would always try to influence me to drinking. And so I had to be, I had to be so firm in my beliefs and really just not even care at all about it. That I just knew that people were going to try to influence me. They would try to say a joke, they'd be, I can't believe you never drank, all these different things. Try to get me to drink for the first time, all this stuff. I knew it would happen every single week.

• 10:34Lewis Howes?

  And I just realized, okay, this is going to happen, no matter what type of circles I'm in, unless I find people that do not drink, which is very rare. And which is one of the reasons why with my girlfriend, when we started dating, I was like, listen, it's not gonna work. If you like to drink, I don't think I can date you. Like, doesn't mean you're a bad person. I just don't wanna be in that environment for the rest of my life with the person I'm choosing to be with. And so I had to make a conscious decision. And she was like, well, I don't really need it. Like, maybe I'll drink a glass of wine once a month. I'm like, okay, that's fine. But if this is a weekly thing, like, it's just not gonna work. Because I've chosen this to be a high priority of my value for my life. And it's, it's very challenging if there's something you wanna do and the people around

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  you are influencing you the other way in terms of accountability. So I think it's, it doesn't mean you can't do it, but choosing to be around people or groups or tribes, like you mentioned, that are supportive, even if it's the local CrossFit gym or whatever it might be, find those communities as much as possible. You know, if your family isn't as supportive, find these other micro tribes to support you in that habit form.

• 11:42James Clear?

  There's this whole chapter in Atomic Habits, it's called The Secret to Self-Control. And one of the surprising things that I came across when I was researching the book is a lot of these self-control studies, we typically will, like, kind of the standard story we all tell is, oh, man, I wish I had the discipline of that person, or I wish I was, you know, as consistent as this professional athlete or whatever. But in fact, the people who exhibit the highest self-control are often the people who are tempted the least. That's like the predominant pattern that is common across those different contexts, is that they are

• 12:14Lewis Howes?

  Don't put cookies in your house, you're not gonna eat them. Yeah.

• 12:16James Clear?

  And so, you know, you want to stack the deck in your favor and design an environment or join groups and tribes where your desired behavior is normal, where your desired behavior is easy. And if you do that for yourself, sure, you'll still have to put effort in, but it's gonna be so much more productive and easy to stick to the habit because you're in a space and a context that's designed to support it. And that's maybe one of the biggest hacks or strategies for building better habits is worry a little bit less about having superhuman willpower and worry a little bit more about designing an environment where you don't need willpower at all.

• 12:54Lewis Howes?

  You did something really smart, which I think a lot of people aren't willing to do. You spent 10 years writing every week in an incredible article or articles that were so detailed, so thought out, so researched. And you said, how can I serve the maximum number of people in my niche? And then start branching out in the space as well and do it consistently over a decade without really making a lot of money, you know, selling other things. And then you came out with a book, and now this doesn't happen for everyone, but then you came out with a book. And it became, you know, a, uh, one of the bestselling books of the year, of the most selling book of last year on Amazon. Like you said, top five, I think this year as well.

• 13:40Lewis Howes?

  And it just continues to add value to people. And I think it's a testament to what you created for a decade plus of adding value. So congratulations on everything, man.

• 13:49James Clear?

  Yeah, thank you. That's very, very nice of you to say. It's been a wild ride. I, there are a couple of things going on there, like I do try to operate with this core value of always give value before you ask for value. And if you think about in any business, but like in my business, writing books, the amount of, um, what it costs a reader or what it costs a customer is not just how much they have to pay for the book. It's also how much time they have to spend reading it or finding it and so on. And whatever that total cost is, time plus money, that's like the amount they have to pay. And then whatever I get paid, um, is what I make. But what they get in return should be like well in excess of that.

• 14:32James Clear?

  So like the value they get minus the time and money they spend, there's some surplus there. And we could call it whatever, but I like, think about it as like goodwill. And I always want to have a surplus of goodwill. Um, and so everything that I create, whether it's an article or a newsletter or the book, I want people to be. To have this feeling that it's like, oh, my gosh, I get so much out of this. Of course, I would want to open the next email or of course, I would want to buy the book. It's like such an obvious win for me. So I always try to give value before I ask for value. And I don't think that there's any one way to do this. Like you could start with the book and not have an audience, for example. But the way that I did it is I wanted to focus on building the audience first, building the platform first.

• 15:15James Clear?

  Give as much value as possible, get the audience as large as possible. And then I was able, you know, I didn't have any credentials, right? Like, I don't have any background for, and there was no reason for me to get a book deal. I was just a guy with a blog. And the only reason that any of the publishers in New York met with me is because I spent that time building the email list and developing the audience. And then I got my foot in the door and got the book deal. And then, of course, you have to execute well on that and create something valuable. And then, you know, ultimately, the book being a hit was sort of just all this potential energy that had been built up for two years or five years or whatever, and then it being released when the book came out.

• 15:56James Clear?

  So I, to a large degree, I kind of think that's the hardest thing about writing books is all the work is upfront. You know, you have to build the audience and write it and edit it and make the marketing plan and start to record interviews and execute on that. You have to do all of that stuff before you sell a single copy. And most people are just not willing to delay gratification that long. You know, I mean, it's probably, depending on how you measure it, Atomic Habits took somewhere between like three and six years.

• 16:27James Clear?

  Definitely at least three years, because that's how long it was from when I got the book deal. But I was doing a lot before I even got the book deal. So, you know, it's just a long time to work on something without making a cent from it. And so if you're willing to do that, then you can get a great result.

• 16:45Lewis Howes?

  You will set yourself up for so much more financial peace over financial pain in the future, but you've got to be willing to face the fear of judgment of what people think about you in order to do this, especially early on when you make these tough decisions.

• 16:58Jaspreet Singh?

  And that's so hard.

• 17:00Lewis Howes?

  So hard.

• 17:01Jaspreet Singh?

  And you're so right, because we've all been there, every single person. And, you know, I remember, you know, I was supposed to be a doctor, like I was saying.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  You're such a failure, man. You're such a failure at being a lawyer and a real estate agent and investor.

• 17:15Jaspreet Singh?

  Imagine hearing that, though, when you don't have anything, right?

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  I know, man, it's scary.

• 17:18Jaspreet Singh?

  And I, before I got it, so I, in between, I also started a sock company. The only way I learned was by doing things. And I was supposed to be a doctor. And now people know me because I'm selling socks. And, you know, people have these high expectations for you. They, oh, that's pretty good, it's gonna be a doctor. I was a sock salesman. And now imagine going to these parties, right? And Indian aunties, they have this, like, the gossip culture is horrible.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  They love to judge and gossip and...

• 17:46Jaspreet Singh?

  Yeah, and so, you know...

• 17:48Lewis Howes?

  Critique and...

• 17:49Jaspreet Singh?

  And they'll say it to your face, oh, so you're selling socks now? And then they don't just tell you, they tell your parents.

• 17:55Lewis Howes?

  Everyone.

• 17:55Jaspreet Singh?

  They tell your grandparents. And, you know, it's a, and now you start hearing from every single person around you, why are you throwing away the sacrifices your parents made?

• 18:05Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 18:05Jaspreet Singh?

  Your parents gave up everything to come to this country so you could have a chance to be a doctor, and you're throwing it away because you want to do this dumb thing called entrepreneurship?

• 18:13Lewis Howes?

  Oh, man, the shame around that must be tough.

• 18:16Jaspreet Singh?

  And they put it all, and now you have nothing to show for it.

• 18:18Lewis Howes?

  And you're failing at the thing.

• 18:19Jaspreet Singh?

  And you're failing.

• 18:20Lewis Howes?

  That you're trying.

• 18:21Jaspreet Singh?

  And you're screwing up, and you have no idea, like, you just have this vision that, like, you know, when I'm 65 and I look back at my life, 75, 85, whatever year you want to put on, let's just say 100, hopefully we can make it there, we look back at life. What are you like, are you gonna be upset that you tried and failed? Or are you gonna be upset that you never gave it a shot? And I remember that was like what I kept telling myself, I was like, look, I'm gonna be old one day, hopefully. And I'm gonna look back at life. And that's when I'm gonna say, you know, am I happy that I tried and screwed up?

• 18:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 18:54Jaspreet Singh?

  Or am I happy that I never tried?

• 18:56Lewis Howes?

  And here's the thing, pain is the price of admission for greatness.

• 19:01Jaspreet Singh?

  Yeah.

• 19:01Lewis Howes?

  And we just have to ask ourselves, what type of pain do I want to experience? Do I want to experience pain of not doing anything?

• 19:09Jaspreet Singh?

  Yeah.

• 19:10Lewis Howes?

  And then feeling unhealthy and sick and, you know, bankrupt because I didn't take action and I was afraid. And the pain comes to me later, or do I want to put myself through controlled pain?

• 19:20Jaspreet Singh?

  Yeah.

• 19:21Lewis Howes?

  By facing the insecurity, by facing the fears, by doing the challenging things consistently with my health, with my finances, to set myself up for more peace in the future.

• 19:31Jaspreet Singh?

  Yeah.

• 19:31Lewis Howes?

  Either way, we're gonna experience pain.

• 19:33Jaspreet Singh?

  A hundred percent, man.

• 19:34Lewis Howes?

  But the controlled, conscious, daily, consistent pain is the price of admission for greatness. And we've got to be willing to lean into that if we want to have something in your life that feels like peace.

• 19:47Jaspreet Singh?

  You know, the biggest drug that holds us back from doing that? Comfort.

• 19:50Lewis Howes?

  I know.

• 19:51Jaspreet Singh?

  We get comfortable and it becomes a drug. And we get addicted to this idea of I need my healthcare. I need my steady salary. I need my 401K. I need these things to feel safe.

• 20:04Lewis Howes?

  I need my lattes every day.

• 20:05Jaspreet Singh?

  I need, you know, and, and those are the things that then hold us back from then following and doing something else. Because we can create a million excuses, right? It's easy to make excuses for why I had this side hustle idea, I had this business idea, I want to go start investing, I want to do something. It's easy to make excuses. Oh, I don't have a million dollars, my parents didn't give me a million dollars, oh, I don't have rich parents, oh, I look a certain way. Look, man, you know, it's, excuses are easy.

• 20:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 20:30Jaspreet Singh?

  And this is where now. Look, sometimes we go through real problems, like mental health is a real problem. If you are struggling, you can't get up because you're depressed, you're anxious. Okay, let's start with that, right? You can't build a business when you can't even get out of bed. So you break it down, okay, if I'm struggling mentally, you gotta get that taken care of first. Go spend whatever it costs, do whatever it takes, start working on that. Pain creates purpose, right? And now you, you can then start to work towards something else and then you start work. But you gotta get away from that comfort drug. You understand, you know what, sometimes you gotta be willing to be uncomfortable. I had this talk with me, so it's kind of, this is funny, I don't think I've ever talked about this publicly. But I, I remember I used to go through like the worst case scenario.

• 21:14Jaspreet Singh?

  I was like, worst case, worst, worst case. My parents kicked me out of the house, uh, I make no money, I'm homeless. Yes. What's the big deal? Okay, I can make that work, I'm like, can I make it work? And, and so a funny kind of segue from that is later on, I went and started a, uh, I co-founded a community service organization. And we did a lot of, or do a lot of help, we call it SEVA, which is a Sikh word. But I'm from the Sikh faith, S I K H, that's the name of the religion. Uh, and SEVA is a fundamental tenet, which means selfless service. And so one of the things that we do was we would do a lot of things in the city of Detroit to help people there. Primarily homeless people.

• 21:59Jaspreet Singh?

  And kind of as a joking idea, kind of as like a serious thing, I told a core founders, I was like, hey, you know, we're doing a lot of things for homeless people here, but we don't know what they're going through. Why don't we try being homeless? And, and I like doing kind of different things and putting myself through it. And so a couple of guys were like, yeah, let's try it. And so, uh, you know, I know I could never experience real homelessness because I know I have a home, I have a family, I have, I had that comfort that I knew I was gonna go back to. But for four days, we slept on the streets of Detroit. We had fifteen dollars a person. Um, and Wow. We're gonna figure it out. And to kind of prepare myself, I didn't shower for a week, but leading up to it and now we just tried it.

• 22:43Jaspreet Singh?

  And this is where now, you know, you put yourself in uncomfortable situations. For me, I kind of try to do that because it gives you new perspectives. Yes. New ways of thinking and people call me crazy and all this stuff all the time, but I kind of. It makes sense to me now because I want, I don't do things the way everybody else does. I don't see the world everybody else does. And I want to try things the way I can see the world from different places. Like we were talking about before, people with different opinions. I look for that.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:10Jaspreet Singh?

  Most people like, especially in this political climate, if you disagree with me, block, turn you off. Talk to me, I want to hear what you have to say. We don't have to agree, but I want to learn from you. And that's where wisdom comes from is when you can listen to two different points of view and then come up with your own analysis. Like when we talk about stock market investing, I'm gonna tie this back to finances. When people talk about, how do you know if it's a good company to invest in? Like one of the things that we talk about is, and I talk about on YouTube is, listen to people's opinions about a company. But don't just listen to one side's opinions. Listen to people that think that the stock is going to the moon. Listen to people who think that the stock is going down.

• 23:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 23:49Jaspreet Singh?

  And now you have both perspectives. Cause if you just listen to people that say, nothing is gonna go wrong, you're gonna be in this euphoric state of, I'm gonna buy everything. But you have to put things in perspective and understand there's two sides to everything. Being willing to, again, it's uncomfortable, right? Especially when you firmly believe something. And then you hear somebody telling you that you're completely wrong, that you're an idiot, that you're a fool. Makes you a little uncomfortable. But being willing to make yourself uncomfortable can teach you a lot. So that's, we're talking about saving money. But it all kind of ties in together of knowing now, being willing to handle that judgment, because that is hard, man.

• 24:22Lewis Howes?

  Huge, man.

• 24:23Jaspreet Singh?

  It is hard.

• 24:24Lewis Howes?

  Huge.

• 24:24Jaspreet Singh?

  Which then brings us to then protecting yourself. Which, you know, there's a few different things here at protecting yourself and protecting your money.

• 24:31Lewis Howes?

  And what's the fourth one? Spend, grow, save?

• 24:34Jaspreet Singh?

  Oh wait, we completely skipped earning.

• 24:35Lewis Howes?

  Earning.

• 24:36Jaspreet Singh?

  Oh my God, we can't skip, that's the most fun one, man. Wow, I'm sorry for that. So earning now is, you built a system. Seventy-five, fifteen, ten. Every time you make money, some of your money is being spent, some of your money is being invested, some of your money is being saved. Now it's, I kind of like this financial education stuff. How can I amplify the system? You gotta put more fuel on the fire. How do you do that? You need to earn more money. Now, this is where unfortunately, unfortunately, a lot of people look for that quick and easy way. I mean, who doesn't want to get rich quick, right? It's, it's, it's very appealing.

• 25:12Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 25:13Jaspreet Singh?

  The problem is, most people who try to get rich quick end up losing, and you end up paying somebody selling you a get rich quick service. And unfortunate, it's very unfortunate, but that's, I mean, it's very easy to sell this idea of get rich quick. And this is where now, understanding that, you know, we could go over systems of, do these five things to build a million dollar business. But everything, everyone's gonna be different, and sometimes you just gotta be willing to put in the work.

• 25:38Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 25:39Jaspreet Singh?

  And there's no bypassing that. But now it's understanding how you can work hard and work smart, because most of us are taught that hard work is rewarded, and it is. But you have to complement this hard work with smart work. Like, if the hardest people in America were compensated by their level of work, construction workers would be the highest paid people in America.

• 26:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 26:02Jaspreet Singh?

  But they're not.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  Teachers would be making more money.

• 26:04Jaspreet Singh?

  Teachers would be making way more money. They're not. We're compensated completely differently, and this makes a lot of people angry, because you say, man, I put in 20 hours, I put in 12 hours, I put in breaking my back, and this is all I'm making? And this is where, it's, it's, why, this is why we need to be taught how our financial system works, because we're all a piece of this puzzle. But most of us are only consumers, we're never taught how to benefit from the way the economic system works. And so you have to be able to work smart, instead of just working hard. And now, the question is now, first, you have to be willing to work hard. Like, I, I, when people tell me, hey, man, I wanted to start a business because I don't want to work that hard, I, I can't even talk to you. Like, like, you can't.

• 26:46Lewis Howes?

  Not gonna happen.

• 26:47Jaspreet Singh?

  It's a completely different language.

• 26:48Lewis Howes?

  You've got to be obsessive or something if you want it to do well.

• 26:50Jaspreet Singh?

  Yes.

• 26:51Lewis Howes?

  You have to be obsessive, and a business owner...

• 26:55Lewis Howes?

  Doesn't get to turn it off. You don't get to clock out at five and say, I'm done for the day. Like, I don't have to worry about anything. Like, time to go home and chill and relax and just watch the money flow in. You've got to, it doesn't shut off. You're thinking nonstop about your employees and making sure they're taken care of. About, am I going to be able to generate enough money to take care of them and the expenses? And running new initiatives and launching your products and making those better? And dealing with customer acquisition? Yeah. It never stops.

• 27:23Jaspreet Singh?

  I know my daddy used to joke around. We had a talk the other day. My dad worked very hard. And he joked around about me because he saw this article on the internet. And he was like laughing. I was like, what's so funny? He was like, work-life balance. I was like, what? He was like, look at this article, you young generation, people are asking for a work-life balance. And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, there is no concept of a work-life balance. When I came to this country, it was work. If I didn't work, I don't have money to feed you.

• 27:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:52Jaspreet Singh?

  Right? And it's like, sometimes you gotta be willing to put in that sacrifice. And obviously, look, we live a life. And you want to, you know, you gotta balance this. But sometimes you gotta be imbalanced to have more balance.

• 28:03Lewis Howes?

  There's a season of life that you've gotta be imbalanced in order to get to balance.

• 28:07Jaspreet Singh?

  Right. And, you know, when I, like, I work a lot, but I don't work as much as I used to.

• 28:12Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:13Jaspreet Singh?

  And I have.

• 28:15Lewis Howes?

  You're getting comfortable, man. You're getting soft.

• 28:16Jaspreet Singh?

  A little bit, man. I seriously gotta go back through something that's gonna make me uncomfortable.

• 28:21Lewis Howes?

  Well, the economy might put you through that, so don't worry.

• 28:23Jaspreet Singh?

  I know.

• 28:23Lewis Howes?

  If you're not disciplined with your pain, the world will bring pain to you.

• 28:27Jaspreet Singh?

  A hundred percent. You're a hundred percent right on that. But it's a matter of now understanding, when is the sacrifice worthwhile? And when are you going to be willing to do that? So it's now, okay, I gotta be willing to put in the work.

• 28:39Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 28:40Jaspreet Singh?

  The second thing is now, where am I putting that work? Now, some people are born with the entrepreneurial bug, entrepreneurial bug. Some people are not. Some people can't handle the risk. That's okay. Not everybody should operate a business. Not everybody should be an entrepreneur. I know the internet makes it seem like that's not the case. Look, there's nothing wrong with working a job, okay? Just understand now, what are the different ways that you can earn more money? Can you work to get a raise? Can you work to maybe change careers if you don't have that much upside potential? Can you get new skills? Can you get new skills, a certificate? Can you, can you do something to earn more money? And it's much more accessible online now. There are so many skills you can learn online that can help you earn more money.

• 29:24Jaspreet Singh?

  Maybe get a second job, right? If that's not the case for you, maybe now you can create your own side hustle if you have an idea. Maybe that can become its own business. The one thing that I would say about side hustles is a lot of mistakes. The mistake that a lot of people make is you try to do too many things and then you end up doing nothing. Right? So it's, it's focusing down on what is it that you want to do and working to scale that. And really just being willing to learn and being willing to fail. Like if, if you have the discipline, you have the work ethic, you're willing to learn and you're willing to fail. There's really not much that can stop you. Because now you have the recipe to actually go out and make it happen.

• 30:06Jaspreet Singh?

  But it's very difficult and you're going to go through a lot of tough times. And most people give up after the first or the second or the third. And, and that's where, you know, the people that keep standing are the ones that can then have the chance to succeed. That's it, man. If you're not, I forget who said it, it might have been Kobe, but you can't beat somebody who doesn't stop getting up. That's true, man. And it's, it's one of those things where you just got to keep coming back and keep trying, keep learning and keep. That's it, man. And goes back to the judgment, which then brings us now to how do you protect your money? Protect that money, baby. Because now as you build more wealth, as you start to do more of these things, now you start to achieve more success. You don't want to lose it. You don't want to lose it.

• 30:49Jaspreet Singh?

  And now, you know, this is where, the first thing I would say is taxes. Cause this is probably the most interesting thing about this. It's tough, man. And as an attorney who spent a lot of time studying the tax code, what I can tell you. Is not all income is treated the same. In general, the IRS has three different categories of income. You have earned income or your ordinary income. This is the money you make from your job, your W two salary. You have your portfolio income. This is your investment income. So if I sell a stock for a profit, that is my portfolio income. And then you have passive income. This is the money you make from something like a rental property. Something that you're not operating, but it's generating you cash flow. Out of these three different types of income,

• 31:33Jaspreet Singh?

  the income that comes with the highest tax rates and the lowest tax write offs, the lowest deductions is your earned income, your ordinary income, the money you make from your job. Now, again, this makes a lot of people upset and angry because they're like, wait, what the I'm working so hard to make my money. You're telling me that if I made this money from my investments, which doesn't require as much physical labor, where I can make even more money, I pay less in taxes? Yes, and again, we're never taught this. And that's the first frustrating part is the reason why people are upset is because they don't know how to take advantage of it. And you can't take advantage of something you don't understand. So the first step is now understanding, look, this is the rules. You can hate me for telling you, but I'm telling you what the rulebook says. The IRS rulebook says this. It's over 2,000 pages long.

• 32:18Jaspreet Singh?

  And all that really says is here are the different categories of income. Here are the write offs. Do you know where these write offs apply? They don't apply for your W two income because most people are just taking the standard deduction. They'll apply for your investment income, your portfolio income, or your passive income. So now the question is, how do you optimize that? How do you take advantage of that? Because the IRS rulebook is a rulebook. It's a guideline, like it tells you what you can do and what you can't do. So now your goal is to understand this and say, huh, based off of this rulebook, I should be doing this or I should have been doing this. And this is where tax planning comes into play. If you're accountant, your CPA, if you have one, if you have a business or invest in real estate, I 100% recommend you have one.

• 33:01Jaspreet Singh?

  Always have a good accountant on your side when you have tax, when you need tax advice. But if all they're doing is filing your taxes, you are leaving a lot of money on the table. And that's where it becomes so important to understand that, you know, for many Americans, your taxes are your biggest expense because it's money that's taken out of your paycheck before you even get to see it. And now if you can understand how you can utilize certain things, and you talked about the real estate professional exemption. If you're investing in real estate, real estate has some of the biggest and best tax write-offs that a tax code has to offer. People like investing in real estate for three reasons. One, you get cash flow. Second, you own a hard asset because now you're taking your paper cash to a physical

• 33:45Jaspreet Singh?

  piece of bricks and windows and real estate. Land. And third, you get tax breaks. Real estate is one of the best tools out there to use a tax code because with real estate, you get paper write-offs, which means I can show the IRS, hey, I made $10,000 with the profit, but my taxable income is maybe zero because I can show them a property is one year older. It's called depreciation. So I get to show the IRS, hey, my property is one year older, so I'm not gonna, I don't have any real taxable income, even though you have some money in the bank. Right. And that's gonna depend on now how valuable the property is. But now you can make money and pay $0 in taxes. In addition to that, you could potentially, there are some, there's a lot of restrictions

• 34:29Jaspreet Singh?

  on this, but if you lose money or lose money on paper, meaning you make a profit, you tell the IRS you lost money, depending on how much money you make and how much money you lose, you could take some of this money, offset some of your job income. There's a lot of rules against this, but you can do that. Then, if you sell your real estate property for a profit, small or big, you can use all that money, go buy another property and pay $0 in tax today. It's called the 1031 exchange. So all these things are available, but you have to now understand that you have to understand it, then how do you do it? Now, the first issue that people have is, how am I supposed to invest in real estate? I can barely buy a home for myself. Right. Well, you have to plan for it. Yeah. Right? It's not something that happens overnight.

• 35:13Jaspreet Singh?

  You're gonna have to work towards it, and if you can't find any property in your area, maybe you look in a different area. Second is if real estate is completely out of the picture. Either you tell yourself you can't do it or you don't want to do it. You don't have to. You can also invest in stocks and still get some of the tax advantages. Because now your portfolio income has lower tax rates. And so now you can invest in stocks. You can generate cash flow from stocks. You can pay less taxes. You might not have the same tax benefits as real estate, but you still get a lot of tax benefits. And you can start with, I mean, I like to say as little as a hundred dollars, but literally you can start with as little as one dollar. There are platforms out there that will let you start with one dollar. But again, it starts with that education. The second thing when it comes to protecting. So first you got to understand the taxes.

• 35:56Jaspreet Singh?

  I would one hundred percent recommend getting a good accountant. Second is protect yourself. If you have a business idea, protect yourself. Because the reality is there's people that want to come after you. People in America, you can sue anybody for anything. And we are the most litigious country in the world. I've seen this firsthand. And this is where now you want to protect yourself, protect your idea. So I'll give you a quick story. Because when I started the Minority Mindset, I know the value of trademarks. So I trademarked the name. It costs a little bit of money, but I trademarked the name Minority Mindset. A little bit after, I was a nobody. Like Minority Mindset was still a nobody at this time.

• 36:40Jaspreet Singh?

  But then I got these messages and then I got a potential lawsuit against me. Because somebody claimed that they owned the rights to the word Minority Mindset. And I looked at why. It's because like ten years prior to me starting the Minority Mindset, this guy wrote one blog post with the words Minority Mindset in it. So he's like, I own the rights to this name. And me and my attorneys looked at this and we're like, well, we have a federally registered trademark on the name Minority Mindset. So no, you, there was nothing that they could do. So you want to protect yourself.

• 37:17Speaker 03

  When people are looking at failure, one of the reasons I think failure is so daunting for people is because they think that a choice is binary. So I think there are two things that you need to do if you want to get out of failure mindset. First of all, you have to get out of this idea that you have one shot at glory. So we fear failure because we think whatever decision we make is what Jeff Bezos calls a one-way door. I go through this door, there's no coming back.

• 37:43Lewis Howes?

  It's going to define me forever.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  It's going to define me forever. When Jeff Bezos in a shareholder letter to Amazon shareholders said, very clearly said, "Most of the decisions we make at Amazon are two-way doors. You go through, it doesn't work out, you come back." So I think that most people have the perception that failure is the result of a binary choice. You make one choice, it fails or succeeds. Now, if you believe like I believe that actually between you and a reward is probably not one decision, but 30, 40, 100, should you really overweight the importance of the first decision? I would say you should overweight your ability to keep choosing. If you can keep choosing, you will find a path. It may not be, you may not end up where you started, but you know, where you wanted when

• 38:29Speaker 03

  you started, but there will be a path. But that, like you have to dismiss this myth that failure is a bi-modal, binary, one-way door. It isn't. It's just the first choice and a series of choices you will inevitably have to make. So first of all, stop thinking about failure as like a one-choice circumstance. It's just not. Then number two, and I will say this, supposing the decision you're contemplating is in fact bigger, and it is a one-way door. I make it up. You mortgage your house, you're starting a company, like, you know, you can't take back the mortgage, you quit your day job, you go to zero salary, and you mortgage your house. Okay, we could agree that's a big risk. In that mode, I always say to people like, okay, well, if it's a big risk, then as opposed to planning for all the upside that's going to happen, I said, "Plan for the failure mode.

• 39:14Speaker 03

  Plan for the failure mode in order to get yourself to act." And people are like, "What do you mean?" I'm like, "Okay, if something's really, you know, a big and scary risk, I want you to tell me the five choices you'd make after the choice." And then I bet that you will find two, three, four recovery paths, but actively think about that now. Park all of your imagining of the upside. Okay, that's great to get what I call your FOMO going. You'll get really excited, fear of missing out is like, you know, you want to act, you visualize the positive. But when you're trying to overcome failure, I'm like, visualize a failure. Work it through.

• 39:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 39:44Speaker 03

  Understand all your contingencies.

• 39:46Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:47Speaker 03

  And then you're probably far more likely to get into action. Because what you've done is reduce your failure.

• 39:53Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 39:53Speaker 03

  Because you can actually, you're actively imagining the choices after the choice, when it fails.

• 39:58Lewis Howes?

  That's interesting you say that, because I was interviewing a UFC fighter, George St. Pierre.

• 40:01Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:02Lewis Howes?

  And that was one of the greatest of all time. And he was talking, I think it was him or another UFC fighter that I heard, I can't remember which one it was. But talking about how they train to be in the most uncomfortable situations.

• 40:13Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:13Lewis Howes?

  Like, I'm on my back, my arm is behind my back, I've got a hand here, and a guy's just punching me in the face. How do I get out of this?

• 40:19Speaker 03

  Yes, that's exactly right.

• 40:20Lewis Howes?

  How do I get out of it? How do I stay calm? How do I not like, pass out? How do, you know, if I'm in the worst position possible, like every bad position I train for.

• 40:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:29Lewis Howes?

  Then I train to get out of it.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:31Lewis Howes?

  So that when it does happen.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:33Lewis Howes?

  I'm like, this sucks and it's uncomfortable, but I know I can get out of it.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 40:37Lewis Howes?

  And if I can just get back on my feet and stand up again, then I can take the next step.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, exactly. And then, and I think for people who are like, I fail, let's say you pick a new job, and you left your old job, and you cut your ties, and it fails. I'm like, okay, what then? So play through, okay.

• 40:50Lewis Howes?

  You lose your relationship, you lose your, everything you lose, yeah.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, then you're like, okay, well then what would you do?

• 40:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 40:55Speaker 03

  Because I think that on small failures, it's enough to know that if you act once, you still have 10 more choices.

• 41:01Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 41:01Speaker 03

  On something that is like truly a one-way door, there are very few decisions that truly you can't come back from. And those things, you're like, okay, then what are my contingencies?

• 41:10Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  What do I do? So I believe that like, this risk-taking equation guides all of us, which is fear of, fear of missing out is more than fear of failure. Which everyone is, you know, fear of missing out is greater than fear of failure.

• 41:22Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 41:22Speaker 03

  You'll take action if fear of failure is greater than fear of missing out, you won't. But most people only want to work one side of that equation, which is think about the positive.

• 41:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 41:29Speaker 03

  And I'm like.

• 41:29Lewis Howes?

  No, you gotta think about both.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really, it's, yeah.

• 41:32Lewis Howes?

  One of my coaches, Chris Lee, years ago, probably like seven years ago, I'd been training for years already to overcome the fear of public speaking.

• 41:39Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  And I'd been speaking for, I don't know, at this point, 10 years.

• 41:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:44Lewis Howes?

  Professionally, and I'd made good money on stages.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Yes, of course.

• 41:47Lewis Howes?

  And spoken in front of 20,000 people. And I remember saying to him, I was like, gosh, I don't know why, but I still feel like, kind of scared and nervous.

• 41:54Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 41:55Lewis Howes?

  Like, the day before I go on.

• 41:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:57Lewis Howes?

  And I don't know why, and I remember calling him like, hours before, and I go, I don't know why I'm still nervous. And a little afraid. And he said, because one of the things is you're afraid of how you're gonna look. You're afraid of like being embarrassed or not like saying the right thing or messing up. You're still afraid of that as opposed to being of service to the audience and knowing you're gonna mess. Not, it's not gonna be perfect. And he put me through an exercise like, well, like a what if or what happens next exercise. Just go, okay, what if you, what if you forget your words? What if you forget that story? Then what?

• 42:28Speaker 03

  Then what?

• 42:28Lewis Howes?

  Then what?

• 42:29Speaker 03

  Then what? I call that the choice after the choice. Then what?

• 42:32Lewis Howes?

  Well, then I'll be like embarrassed. Well, then what? Well, then, uh, what's the worst could happen? Uh, I don't know. Then I just walk off stage and I forget the whole thing. And then what? And then what? And he's, well, everyone laughs at me. Okay, and then what? And then I don't wanna come out for a week because I'm so embarrassed. And then what? And it's like eventually you, you're like, okay, I'm down here and I, I'll pick myself back up and I'll be okay. And I, you know, I'll start again.

• 42:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think that that's sort of the point. Like the then what, then what, then what? We sort of have trained ourselves to think that it has to be, you know, that it, like I said, it's bimodal. I'm like, it's not bimodal. It's like what will happen is you'll discover there are five choices after the choice. So think those through now.

• 43:09Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 43:09Speaker 03

  Because in there is comfort.

• 43:12Lewis Howes?

  It's so good, it's so good. What is the thing that you're most proud of? Most people don't know about you.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  What I'm most proud of career wise, and then I think what I'm most proud of people know. What I'm most proud of career wise is I have had a career of working with exceptionally talented people. Where I feel like I got to be part of accelerating their journey. That is what I'm most proud of. Like I'll look back on my life and say, regardless of the cuties or what, I like, I just look, I'll say to people, do you know how amazing it is to work with tribes of great people who are by and large, great human beings as well? And then be like, oh yeah, I will look at my journey and be like, I got to intersect with these amazing people. And maybe for a few of them, or hopefully some meaningful number of them, I was an accelerant. So that's what I'm most proud of, kind of business wise. What am I most proud of that people wouldn't know about me?

• 43:59Speaker 03

  Maybe that I think I wake up every day, both fully empowered and also pretty clear that I'm like pretty far from the center of the universe. Like, I'm, I'm proud of the fact that I think that most people would think that I wake up thinking I sort of must rule the roost. And most days I'm like, no, I wake up pretty empowered, but I, I'm really grounded and clear that, you know, life is a blessing. I'm here for a reason. I'm living my impact. The world is a much, much bigger place than just me. Um, yet I feel very stable within it. Like I, I, I, I don't feel like many, I don't, nothing's gonna shake me.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I have a sense for why I'm here and what I'm meant to do without thinking that it's all about me. So I, I'm proud of that.

• 44:46Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 44:47Speaker 03

  I'm like, I'm good with it.

• 44:48Lewis Howes?

  That's great. The book is about risks and you said, most things won't shake you, but when people take big risks, sometimes it shakes them a lot. What's the biggest myths around risk-taking? Um, that we tell ourselves?

• 45:03Speaker 03

  Yeah. And by the way, of course, if you read the book, you'll know that many risks I took shook me, which is the whole reason for writing the book. Cause I'm like, oh, it don't wanna shake you. This is what happened to me. So I can't say I've never been shaken by risk. But I think I, I keep coming back to that singular point. Like, I know it sounds so simple, but it is the point of the entire freaking book. The book is about how, but the point of the book is about, you know, let go of this myth of the single choice. Stop believing that outcomes are binary, that risk and reward is a singer, singular linear game. Like, hey, I take a big risk, I get a big reward, you know, or I have an epic fail. Like, it's just not like that.

• 45:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's either I win big or I lose it all.

• 45:46Speaker 03

  Exactly. That is this bimodal issue. I think that is the biggest myth, myth around risk-taking. And it's the whole reason I wrote the book. I'm like, you have to keep choosing. Stop overweighting the first choice. You know, if you are willing to keep choosing, there are, you know, a hun, a thousand, um, a thousand choices between you and success. And I cannot promise you that the success you'll get at the end is the one you originally thought. It may or may not be. But I can tell you that if you keep aiming for impact in every single choice, cumulatively, you will have an outsized career. And you will have an outsized life.

• 46:21Lewis Howes?

  What is the one thing, the main thing that you feel from all the interviews you've done that makes great entrepreneurs great?

• 46:30Guy Raz?

  There's a bunch of answers to that question and some of them are predictable, like resilience or a strong sense of optimism, you know, the ability to get back up when you get knocked down. And those are all true. Like you have to have that. But the one thing,

• 46:47Guy Raz?

  because not every person I've interviewed has got a college or is educated. They're not all book smart. They're not all charismatic. They're not, you know, they're different. They're like us, right? But the one thing that binds every person I interview is they've all, they all either have naturally or have learned to develop the ability to withstand rejection, to accept, to basically accept that lots of people are going to say no and keep kind of grinding through it.

• 47:19Lewis Howes?

  That's, it's one of the hardest things is to deal with rejection, deal with people judging you, deal with people saying that like, this is bad, this is horrible, this isn't going to work. It's because you want that confirmation. We want confirmation when we're doing something of like, yes, you're amazing. Go do it. But when everyone's saying no, and you can go through it, because at some point, great entrepreneurs are going to get people to say no.

• 47:41Guy Raz?

  Yes.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  And at some, you've got to learn how to get through it.

• 47:45Guy Raz?

  I interviewed this guy, Topio Otana, a couple of weeks ago, and he founded this company called Calendly. Have you ever used Calendly? It's a really great.

• 47:53Lewis Howes?

  I mean, everyone for podcast interviews, it's like all we do is schedule calendars.

• 47:57Guy Raz?

  Yeah. So he started this, I don't know, like six or seven years ago. And his first job while he was a college student was selling ADT home monitoring services door to door. Right? So he's in Athens, Georgia. And he's this kid who's from Nigeria. He came to the US when he was 16. And he's going door to door in Athens, Georgia, selling, knocking on doors, trying to sell people home monitoring systems. And I said to him, I said, didn't you ever get discouraged with all those doors slamming in your face? Didn't you get tired of hearing people saying like, no soliciting? And he said, no, because I knew that that there was a hit rate. And, you know, eventually, one of those doors would open and the person would say, yes. And I would make a commission on that sale and that was more money than I ever had in my life.

• 48:41Guy Raz?

  So it was fine. I mean, it's a similar story with Sarah Blakely, who founded Spanx. Like she sold fax machines door to door. It was, she describes it as torture, you know? She, but it steeled her when it came time to starting her business. Like she had to find a textile manufacturer that was willing to make a prototype of these undergarments that no one had ever seen before. And all these textile plants said no, until one finally said yes, but she was ready for that process because she had gone through like rejection exposure therapy.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Yeah. Like she had a PhD in rejection. For I think it was six or seven years she was doing door to door.

• 49:20Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 49:20Lewis Howes?

  And do you think it's harder for to get successful or to stay successful as entrepreneurs? Is it easier to like, okay, I made something work. This was a success. Or is it easier, once you get there, to maintain?

• 49:34Guy Raz?

  It's a great question. I mean, I haven't put a lot of thought into it, but here, here's what I would say. I think getting to a place where you have found some success, it's sort of like finding lift. And it's like when an airplane, you know, takes lift. And then, and then, you know, you hit cruising altitude at 35,000 feet and there will be turbulence. But I think that in general, in my experience, I think once you have achieved some level of success, it's easier to build on that because people have seen you succeed in some fashion or form like, like. What I do, what you do, I mean, 25 years ago, when I started out on radio before it was podcasting, I couldn't get on the air. Why would somebody give me a chance, you know?

• 50:19Guy Raz?

  I had no track record. I had no, no one knew who I was. Nobody knew if I was any good and I sucked, by the way.

• 50:26Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 50:26Guy Raz?

  That's how it is. You suck when you start. You suck and then you suck less and then a little less and a little less. But, you know, once I started to go on air, it was like that, that domino falls. And other people's like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, you can, you can, you can do a story or, or are you sure you, we'll, we'll take your, your, your pitch? And it's the same thing with, I think with entrepreneurship, which is, once you, you know, it doesn't mean that you're gonna, if, if you start a bill, like, is Kevin Systrom gonna be able to found another billion dollar Instagram account? Probably not. I mean, that, but it, but will he continue to be successful in any endeavor he does? Yeah, and he'll also have some failures. But, you know, he has that sort of, and most entrepreneurs who have, who have achieved something,

• 51:10Guy Raz?

  who've created something and built something, even things that have failed, they have that like, that lift, you know, that keeps them, keeps them flying.

• 51:18Lewis Howes?

  And do you think anyone could be a thriving, successful entrepreneur? I mean, like sustainably making money and having a business with customers? Do you think it's possible for anyone or some of us just not wired? Because when I was a kid growing up, I was never into baseball cards. I didn't do the lemonade stand thing. I, I never made any money. I was like an athlete and I didn't know the concept of, here's a value, here's a skill, go sell it, try to get some money. I didn't know that concept until I was 25 and I needed to make money until it was a necessity and there was no other way. And 2008 happened, there was no jobs and I was like, well, I gotta figure out what I'm gonna do to survive.

• 51:58Guy Raz?

  Yeah.

• 51:58Lewis Howes?

  Is it a thing that people can learn or is it kind of you that got it or you don't?

• 52:04Guy Raz?

  I'm a thousand percent believer that.

• 52:08Guy Raz?

  Virtually every skill that entrepreneurs have are acquired. Now, there are some people, like Mark Cuban is a good example of just a freak of nature. Like, when he was in his teens, he read a book called How to Retire at Age Thirty-Five. Okay? He wanted to become, like, he was determined to become a millionaire by age thirty. He went, he picked a college program where he could graduate in three years to save money. He instantly went to Dallas because he thought there were opportunities there. He got a job bartending at night because he knew it would stuff his pockets with tips. And in the daytime, he started selling computer software. I mean, he was a millionaire by age thirty. Like, he, but he's a freak of nature, right? In that sense, I think most entrepreneurs acquire these skills over time.

• 52:51Guy Raz?

  I mean, let's go back to rejection for a moment. So some people are just naturally easier with it, right? Like, you, you remember, you probably knew, like, that guy in high school who would just ask a hundred people out on dates, and he wouldn't care if ninety-nine of them said no, because he knew that one would eventually say yes, right?

• 53:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:09Guy Raz?

  Now, I was not that kid. You might not have been that.

• 53:11Lewis Howes?

  I was not that kid. I was terrified of girls.

• 53:13Guy Raz?

  I was terrified, right? I was terrified of the, of people saying, like, no. So, it's sort of a weird kind of example, but, you know, the, the idea of going door to door to sell something, or pitching people on your product, going to investors, it's really hard. It requires the ability to hear no and to keep fighting. And, you know, one of the insights that I gained from, that I learned from the show is, just in this weird, it's like this weird thing that's happened, which is that I have ended up interviewing a significant number of Mormon entrepreneurs, okay? Now Mormons are a tiny percentage of the American population, like two percent, okay? And they have a pretty significantly high rate of entrepreneurship.

• 54:02Guy Raz?

  In their, in their community, in their culture and also business success. So what is it that they're doing differently? Well, they're doing something very different than pretty much every other population in America.

• 54:13Lewis Howes?

  They're like door to door salesmen.

• 54:15Guy Raz?

  They send their 18 year olds to the country around the world. And they say, go live somewhere for two years and get as many converts as you can. You're going to have to knock on a thousand doors to get five, 10 people to accept the Book of Mormon.

• 54:28Lewis Howes?

  And you have to learn the new language and speak a different language out of your comfort zone.

• 54:32Guy Raz?

  Perfectly, and you've got to pay your own way. And by the way, you have to be polite and gracious and friendly. You can't be like, why are you slamming the door in my face? Like you are a Mormon missionary. You are, you're representing the church. Like you've got to be really polite and friendly and kind. So those kids go abroad for two years. They come back to the US, Utah, or wherever they start college. They're way more equipped than your average 21 year old to start their lives and also to start a business. And it's a story that I've heard from David Neillman, the founder of JetBlue. It's a story, you know, I've heard from Joel Clark, the founder of Kodiak Cakes, the, you know, the protein powder pancakes. He got back from his mission in Australia and he started this company, this business. He had no fear of going door to door to sell pancake cakes.

• 55:17Guy Raz?

  And so it's, I'm not, you know, I'm not suggesting that everybody become a Mormon. I'm saying that, what I'm saying is that it's a really interesting kind of case study. You know, I don't think the church deliberately, you know, setting its, its young people up to be entrepreneurs, but it's setting them up to be independent. And, um, and so that's a learned skill. I mean, Mormons are not more preternaturally more gifted in, in rejection of the ability with standard rejection. They just had two years of it. So they're better at it. And I think all of us can kind of replicate that in a, in a sense.

• 55:49Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple. Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are

• 56:30Lewis Howes?

  loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.