Pod Insights Let's Talk About Myths, Baby! | Greek Mythology & the Ancient Mediterranean Liv Reads Homer: The Odyssey (A Modern Translation!) Books 16 and 17 About this episode Liv reads Books 16 and 17 of Homer's Odyssey, translated by Ian Johnston. Time for the Father-Son reunion Nobody asked for... Telemachus is back in Ithaca and it's time for him and dad to make a (deadly) plan. This modern translation is used with immense gratitude to translator Ian Johnston and Vancouver Island University https://johnstoniatexts.x10host.com/homer/odysseytofc.html. Submit questions and prompts for future Odyssey readings at mythsbaby.com/questions http://mythsbaby.com/questions and get ad-free episodes and so, so much more, by subscribing to the Oracle Edition at patreon.com/mythsbaby http://patreon.com/mythsbaby
CW/TW: far too many Greek myths involve assault. I try to provide direct warnings when there is reference to anything with overtly traumatic themes but be aware that Greek mythology regularly features assault, death, and many other potentially triggering events.
This is not a standard narrative story episode, it's a reading of an ancient source, audiobook style. For regular episodes look for any that don't have "Liv Reads..." in the title!
Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here:mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions http://mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.
Learn more about Liv's next group trips https://travelbugxlivalbert.my.canva.site/ to GREECE! Application deadline is November 30 (Subject to change due to demand).
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript 16,876 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Liv Albert? Hey nerds, really quick note from me. I want to tell you that we now have the applications open for the next set of listener group trips. This is us going back to the original, the trips that we have held in the past that have been so much fun, so successful, and pretty affordable in terms of wandering around Greece with a bunch of nerds. So check out the details and get your applications in at mythsbaby.com/groups.
0:43 Liv Albert? Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. No new tools, no extra logins. Just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Make work less work. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at g o o dot g l e slash Workspace with Gemini.
1:13 Speaker 01 Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend.
1:18 Speaker 02 You know that ache when a book ends and you're not ready to leave that world? We live there. Fantasy Fangirls is your best friend's book club meets English class. Where we dive deep into beloved fantasy books, discussing lore, characters, themes, theories, and so much more. I'm Lexi, older sister and fantasy lore nerd. And I'm Nicole, younger sister and romantic at heart. Right now, we're exploring Prythian as we go deep into the highly anticipated and newly released Akatar books by Sarah J. Maas. Fantasy Fangirls is not your typical deep dive book podcast. When we say deep dive, we really mean it. Every episode covers a stretch of chapters and is structured with five segments to easily follow along. So pack your bags. We're headed to the Night Court with new episodes every single Monday.
2:05 Speaker 01 Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. acast.com.
2:39 Liv Albert? Hello, this is Let's Talk About Myths, baby, and I am your host, Liv, here with another reading episode. I have to admit, I had hoped and planned to be further along in The Odyssey at this point, but that movie really disrupted things in a way that I was not expecting, but perhaps I should have. But, oh my gosh, I'm already exhausted by all of the takes, like, the scary right-wing fascists think that it's too woke, which means that anyone trying to criticize the fact that it's misogynist drivel gets accused
3:18 Liv Albert? of being on their side, which is crazy. Like, as if... I really saw a headline that suggested that both racial and gender issues are a you problem. And I, like, the idea that criticizing what they did to the female characters is somehow in the same vein as criticizing
3:52 Liv Albert? the pretty great racial diversity is dangerous. Like, we can and should talk about the issues, even if the right also thinks that there are other stupid, nonsensical issues. Like, the left can still raise issues. The diversity was incredible. It was spot-on, except for the fact that there was a distinct lack of Mediterranean-looking people entirely.
4:26 Liv Albert? We can say both of those things at once. Like, it's ju- and I understand where the, the pushback is coming from and all this, but like, we can say those things at once. We can praise the diversity while also criticizing the explicit lack of one specific cultural group that the entire story is based around. And I'm not even speci- like, Mediterranean broadly, right? Right? We can say, hey, the racial diversity was a really great step forward in terms of how we conceptualize these ancient things. And also, it should have had Mediterranean faces. We can say those things at once. We can say
5:06 Liv Albert? that this, this movie was, I mean, I think calling it woke is hilarious because it had the tiny, tiny, tiniest bit of critique about Western imperialism, but it was mostly pro-Western civilization. And so any kind of tiny, tiny, tiny critique of Western imperialism is kind of moot. We can't, like, we can take that in and still be like, hey, if you don't like women, if, if it's clear from your movie that you are at best uninterested in seeing women as equal human beings to men, and at worst, you hate us, then actually that tiny, tiny, tiny bit of anti-imperialist commentary in the movie
5:50 Liv Albert? doesn't mean much. Because guess what? The patriarchy is part of it. It is all wrapped up together. None of us are free until all of us are free. And ah, anyway, I didn't mean to make this that rant, but like, it's just nonstop. And I simultaneously do want to talk about it and also don't at all, just because of the wider internet.
6:18 Liv Albert? If I could just disappear off of social media entirely, I think I would. But then I can't because it's how I connect with all of you. We're really in a vicious cycle here and so someone stop my rambling. Um, it's going to be me. We're gonna just dive right into the Odyssey, Homer's Odyssey. An Odyssey that is more progressive than what Christopher Nolan gave us and which is being called quote unquote woke. The, the original is inarguably more progressive. Like, the original is inarguably more anti-imperial. Like, just...
6:54 Liv Albert? It's fine, it's fine, it's fine. This is the real one. This is the Homer. This is the Homer. I promise I'm, I'm not losing my mind, but one quick anecdote, which is that a man, and I, and I make that very clear. A man recently discovered my podcast from watching The Odyssey and, um, he didn't send me an email to tell me how, uh, just generally helpful it was, or, or just that he liked my work. He sent me an email to say that he had just found, just started listening to episode one of The Odyssey, like my Odyssey series, which, quick recap, that's from the year 2018.
7:33 Liv Albert? Yeah, take that in. Okay. So he sent me, uh, an email, a direct email. Put all the information in, to, from, and he said, "Thanks for your content. I just listened to the first episode. I really hope you fix your pronunciation of Telemachus. It's really getting on my nerves." Okay, thanks.
7:55 Liv Albert? Do you know how unhelpful it is to criticize someone on something that they did eight years ago? Let alone, not even a constructive criticism, because he didn't actually... And now, I thought about it after the fact, and I realized the issue is that he saw the movie. He saw how they pronounced Telemachus and just decided that I am wrong. And granted, I do say Telemachus, which is how they say in the movie. And back in the day, I think of my to said, "Telemachus", because that's what I learned in fucking university. So anyway, Stuart, if you're listening to this, screw you. You don't, you should not, should not put all your effort into emailing somebody to tell them that something they did eight years ago was wrong, but also to say like, "I hope you fix it."
8:39 Liv Albert? What, what do you think that's going to achieve? It's like going to a movie from eight years ago and being like, well, I hope it's different.
8:51 Liv Albert? Anyway. Again, I didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but if you're listening to me, you know, and it's fine. Now I'm getting into the Odyssey. I swear.
9:02 Liv Albert? A reminder of where we left off, and then I, I promise I will actually start. Odysseus is finally home in Ithaca. He's been chatting away, lying through his teeth with the loyal slave swineherd, Eumaeus, and Telemachus has just been called upon by Athena. He's just left Sparta, where we saw how strong and important and generally well-respected Helen was. And now he is about to arrive back in Ithaca, where Odysseus is still hanging out with good old Eumaeus.
10:06 Liv Albert? This is Homer's Odyssey, Book 16, translated by Ian Johnston and used with immense gratitude to the translator and Vancouver Island University.
10:20 Liv Albert? Meanwhile, at dawn, Odysseus and the loyal swineherd, once they had sent the herdsman out with droves of pigs, lit a fire in the hut and prepared their breakfast. As Telemachus approached the hut, the yelping dogs stopped barking and fawned around him. Lord Odysseus noticed what the dogs were doing and heard footsteps. He quickly shouted to the swineherd. His words had wings. "Eumaeus, some friend of yours is coming, or someone you know. The dogs aren't barking and are acting friendly. I hear footsteps." He hardly finished speaking when his own dear son stood in the doorway. The swineherd, amazed, jumped up, the bowls he was using to mix the gleaming wine fell from his hands.
11:05 Liv Albert? He went up to greet his master, kissed his head, both his handsome eyes and his two hands, then through his tears he spoke, just as a loving father welcomes his dear son after a nine-year absence, returning from a foreign land, an only son, his favorite, for whom he's undergone much grief. That's how the loyal swineherd hugged Telemachus and kissed him often, as if he'd escaped his death. And through his tears he spoke to him, his words had wings. "You've come back, Telemachus, you sweet light! I thought I'd never see you anymore, once you went off to Pelos in that ship.
11:46 Liv Albert? Come in here now, dear boy, so that my heart can feel the joy of seeing you in my home, now that you've returned from distant places. You don't often visit farms and herds, man, your life is in the town. Your heart, I think, must enjoy the sight of those vile suitors." Prudent, Telemachus then answered him and said, "If you say so, old friend. I've come here now on your account, to see you face to face and to hear you talk about my mother. Is she still living in the palace halls, or has some other man now married her? Is no one sleeping in Odysseus's bed? Is it covered in disgusting cobwebs?" The swineherd that outstanding man then answered him.
12:28 Liv Albert? "Yes, indeed, she still lives in your palace, with a faithful heart, but always grieving, wasting days and nights away with weeping." He said this, took the bronze spear from Telemachus and let him in, crossing the threshold made of stone. As he approached, Odysseus, his father, got up to offer him his seat, but across the room, Telemachus stopped him and said, "Stay put, stranger, we'll find a seat somewhere inside this hut. Here's a man who will arrange that for us." He spoke. Odysseus went back and sat down again. Eumaeus made a pile of green brushwood on the floor and spread a fleece on top. Odysseus's dear son sat down there. Then the swineherd set out before them platters of roast meat,
13:13 Liv Albert? left over from the dinner they had made the day before, and quickly heaped up baskets full of bread. In a wooden bowl he mixed wine as sweet as honey, and then sat down himself, opposite god like Odysseus. Their hands reached out to the welcome meal prepared and spread before them. When they had satisfied their hearts with food and drink, Telemachus spoke out to the trusty swineherd. "Old friend, where does this stranger come from? How did sailors bring him to Ithaca? What, who do they claim to be? For I don't think there's any way he could get here on foot." Then swineherd Eumaeus, you answered him and said, "My child, I'll tell you nothing but the truth. He claims that he was born in spacious Crete, and he says he's been roaming all around,
13:58 Liv Albert? wandering through many human cities. That's how some god has spun a fate for him. He's just fled a ship of Thesprosians and come here to my farm. You can have him. Do as you wish. He's a suppliant," he says. Prudent, Telemachus then answered him and said, "Eumaeus, I'm truly distressed at heart by those words you said. How can I welcome this guest into my home? I am too young. I don't believe my hands are strong enough to fight a man who acts with violence against me first. And as for my mother, in her chest the heart is quite divided, whether to stay with me and tend the house out of respect for what the people say, and for her husband's bed, or to go now with the finest man of those Achaeans
14:42 Liv Albert? who have been courting her within the halls, the one who offers the most marriage gifts. But anyway, now this stranger's come here to your home. I'll dress him in fine clothing, cloak and tunic, and give a two-edged sword and sandals for his feet. I'll send him off wherever his heart and spirit prompt him. If you wish, you can keep him at this farm and out and care for him. I'll send some clothing here and the food he'll eat, so he won't..." Ruin you and your friends, but I will not let him go to my home and mingle with the suitors. They are far too full of insolent pride. They might mock him, and I would die of shame. It's difficult for one man on his own, even if he's very strong, to do much against so many. They are far stronger.
15:28 Liv Albert? Then Lord Odysseus, who had endured so much, said to Telemachus, "Friend, surely it's all right for me to answer, and my heart is torn as I hear you speak. These suitors think up such presumptuous actions in your home and flout your will, though you're a decent man. Tell me, do you agree with this oppression? Do the people of the country hate you and follow what some god is telling them? Do you think the blame rests with your kinsmen, whom a man relies on in a quarrel, even when he's in a serious dispute? With my heart the way it is, how I wish I were either as young as you, the son of brave Odysseus, or the man himself, returning from his travels. There's still room for us to hope for that.
16:11 Liv Albert? Then, if I came to Odysseus's home, son of Laertes, and did not bring destruction on them all, I'd let a stranger's sword slice off my head. If I, acting alone, was overwhelmed by their great number, I would rather die, killed in my own house, than keep on watching such disgraceful acts. Guests treated badly, women servants shamelessly being dragged through the fine palace, wine drawn and wasted, and all the time food eaten needlessly, acts which go on and on without an end."
16:47 Liv Albert? Prudent Telemachus then answered him and said, "Well, stranger, I'll speak candidly to you. The people are not all angry with me, nor do they bear a grudge. And I don't blame my kinsmen, the ones a man relies on in a fight, even a serious dispute. The son of Cronos made our family follow a single line. It goes like this: Archysias fathered a single son, Laertes, and he too was the father of only a single son, Odysseus, and he in turn fathered me just one son, then left me by myself in his own hall."
17:23 Liv Albert? He got no joy of me, that's the reason so many hostile men are in our home. All those lords with power in the islands, Delikium, Samai, wooded Zikintis, and those who rule in rocky Ithaca, all of them trying to court my mother and destroy my home. She does not turn down the hateful marriage, but cannot decide how to bring these matters to an end. With their feasting, they consume my household, and they'll soon be the ruin of me too. But all this lies in the lap of the gods. Old friend, you must go quickly and report to wise Penelope that I've come back. I'm safely home from Pelos. I'll stay here until you've told the news to her alone and have returned.
18:05 Liv Albert? No other Akaien must learn about it, for many of them are hatching dangerous plans against me.
18:13 Liv Albert? Then swineherd Eumaeus, you answered him and said, I know what you're saying, I understand. You're speaking to a man who thinks things through. But come, tell me this and be frank with me. On this trip, should I go to see Laertes with the news? The poor man is miserable. For a while, though, suffering great distress about Odysseus, he'd supervise the fields and in his own home eat and drink with servants, as the heart inside his chest would urge him. But now, since the time you left for Pelos, people say he no longer eats and drinks the way he used to, or inspects the fields, but sits there groaning and wailing in tears, with his flesh shriveling around his bones. Prudent Telemachus then answered him and said,
18:58 Liv Albert? That's more distressing, but nevertheless, though it makes us sad, we'll leave him alone. If mortal men could somehow get all things simply by wishing, we would first of all select the day my father gets back home. After you have informed her of the news, get back here right away. Don't go roaming around the fields looking for Laertes. Instead, tell my mother to send her maid, the housekeeper, quickly and in secret. She can report the news to the old man. His words spurred on the swineherd. He took his sandals, tied them on his feet, and set off for the city. It did not escape the notice of Athena that swineherd Eumaeus was going from the farm.
19:39 Liv Albert? She approached the hut, appearing like a woman, beautiful, tall, and skilled in making lovely things. She stood there, just outside the entrance to the farm, and was visible to no one but Odysseus. Telemachus could not observe her shape or face or notice she was there, for when the gods appear, they do not let all men perceive the form they take. But Odysseus saw her, so did the dogs as well, but there was no barking. Instead, they slunk away, whimpering in fear, to the far side of the hut. She gave a signal with her eyebrows. Odysseus noticed and went out of the hut, past the large wall that ran around the yard, and stood in front of her. Then Athena spoke to him.
20:22 Liv Albert? "Son of Laertes, adventurous Odysseus, sprung from Zeus, now is the time to speak to your own son. Make yourself known, and don't conceal the facts, so you can plan the suitor's lethal fate. Then go together to your famous city. I won't be absent from you very long. I am eager for the fight." As she said this, Athena touched Odysseus with her golden wand. To start with, she placed a new, unblemished cloak around his body, then made him taller and restored his youthful looks. His skin grew dark once more, his countenance filled out, and the beard covering his chin turned black again.
21:03 Liv Albert? Once she'd done this, Athena left, and Odysseus went back into the hut. His dear son was amazed. He turned his eyes away, afraid it was a god, and spoke to him. His words had wings. "Stranger, now you look different than you did before. You're wearing different clothes. Your skin has changed. You're one of the gods who hold wide heaven. If so, be gracious, so we can give you pleasing offerings, well-crafted gifts of gold, but spare us." Long-suffering Lord Odysseus then answered him and said, "I'm not one of the gods. Why do you compare me to immortals? But I am your father, on whose account you are grieving and suffer such distress,
21:46 Liv Albert? having to bear men's acts of insolence." He spoke, then kissed his son. He kept his self-control until a tear slid down his cheek, falling in the dirt. But Telemachus, who could not yet believe it was his father, spoke to him again, saying, "You cannot be Odysseus, my father. No, some spirit has cast a spell on me to make me lament and grieve even more. There's no way a mortal man could plan this with his own wits unless some god himself were present, who could, if he so desired, make him look young or old quite easily. Not long ago, you wore filthy clothing and were an older man, but now you're like the immortal gods who hold wide heaven."
22:30 Liv Albert? Then resourceful Odysseus answered him and said, "Telemachus, it's not appropriate to be overly surprised your father is back home, or to be too astonished. You can be rest assured, no other Odysseus will ever be arriving. I am here. I've borne a lot, in many wanderings, and now, in the twentieth year, I'm back on my native soil. This present business, you should know, is forager Athena's work. She made me look like this. It's what she wants, and she has that power. In one moment, like a beggar, and in another one, a younger man, dressed in much finer clothes. It's easy for the gods who hold wide heaven to glorify, or else debase, a man."
23:14 Liv Albert? Once he'd said this, he sat down and Telemachus embraced his noble father, cried out and shed tears. A desire to lament arose in both of them. They both wailed aloud as insistently as birds, like two sea eagles or hawks with curving talons, whose young chicks have been carried off by country folk before being fully fledged. That's how those two men let tears of sorrow fall from underneath their eyes. And now, light from the sun would have gone down on them, as they wept, if Telemachus had not spoken. He suddenly addressed his father. "In what kind of ship, dear father, did sailors carry you here to Ithaca?
23:57 Liv Albert? Who did they say they were? For I don't think you made it back on foot." Noble, long-suffering Odysseus answered him, "All right, my child, I will tell you the truth. Phaeacians, those famous sailors, brought me. They escort other men too, as well, all those who visit them as guests. I stayed asleep, as they transported me across the sea in their swift ship, and left me on the shore. They gave me splendid gifts of bronze and gold and woven clothing. Now, thanks to the gods, these things are stored away in caves. I've come at Athena's bidding, so we may plan destruction for our foes. But now it's time to tell me the number of the suitors,
24:39 Liv Albert? so I may know how many men there are, and what they're like. Then, once my noble heart has thought it over, I'll make up my mind, whether we two are powerful enough to take them on alone without assistance, or whether we should seek out other men."
24:56 Liv Albert? Shrewd Telemachus then answered him and said, "Father, I've always heard about your great renown, a mighty warrior. Your hands are strong, your plans intelligent. But what you say is far too big a task. I'm astonished. Two men cannot fight against so many, and they are powerful. In an exact count, there are not just ten of them, or twice ten, but many more. Here, you can soon add up their numbers. From Delikium, there are fifty-two hand-picked young men, six servants in their retinue; from Samae, twenty-four; from Zikynthis, twenty young Achaeans; and from Ithaca itself, twelve young men, all nobility. Meadon, the herald, is with them, as is the godlike minstrel,
25:41 Liv Albert? and two attendants, skilled in carved meat. If we move against all these men inside, I fear revenge may bring a bitter fate. Now you've come home, so you should consider. If you can think of anyone who'll help, someone prepared to stand by both of us and fight with all his heart."
26:01 Liv Albert? Then Lord Odysseus, who had endured so much, replied to him and said, "All right, I'll tell you. Pay attention now and listen. Do you believe Athena, along with Father Zeus, will be enough for the two of us? Or should I think about who else might help us?" Prudent Telemachus answered with these words: "Those two allies you mention are excellent. They sit high in the clouds, ruling others, men and immortal gods." Long-suffering Lord Odysseus then said to him, "The two of them won't stand apart for long from the great fight, we can be sure of that, when Ares' warlike spirit in my halls is put to the test between these suitors and ourselves.
26:44 Liv Albert? But for now, when dawn arrives, go to the house, join those haughty suitors. The swineherd will bring me to the city later on. I'll look like a beggar, old and wretched. If they're abusive to me, let that dear heart in your chest endure it, while I'm being badly treated. Even if they drag me by my feet all through the house and out the door, or start hurling things at me. Keep looking on and hold yourself in check. You can tell them to stop their foolishness, but seek to win them over with nice words, even though you'll surely not convince them, because the day they meet their fate has come. I'll tell you something else, keep it in mind. When wise Athena puts it in my mind, I'll nod my head to you.
27:27 Liv Albert? Once you see that, take all the weapons of war lying there inside the hall, stow them in a safe place, all of them, in the lofty storage room. When the suitors notice they've gone missing and ask about it, you must deceive them with reassuring words. I've placed them well beyond the smoke, since they're no longer like the weapons Odysseus left behind when he went off to Troy. They're all tarnished, the fire has breathed on them too many times. Beyond that, the son of Cronos has put a greater worry in my heart that you, after too much wine, may start up a fight amongst yourselves and then hurt each other, dishonoring your courtship and the feast. Iron attracts a man all on its own.
28:10 Liv Albert? But leave behind a pair of swords, two spears, and two oxhide shields for the two of us to grab up when we make a rush at them. Palace Athena and Counselor Zeus will keep the suitors' minds preoccupied. I'll tell you something else, keep it in mind. If you are my son, truly of our blood, let no one hear Odysseus is back home. Don't let Laertes know, or the swineherd, or the slaves, or Penelope herself. You and I alone will investigate how the women feel, and we will check out some of the serving men to discover if any of them fears and honors us in his heart, and the ones with no respect who malign you for being who you are.
28:52 Liv Albert? Then his splendid son answered him and said, "Father, I think you'll later come to recognize my spirit, for no timidity of mind possesses me, but still, I do not think your plan will benefit the two of us. I'll ask you to consider this: you'll spend a long time simply testing every man as you visit the farms, while those others, in their proud way, relax inside your halls and use your property without restraint. I'd suggest you learn about the women, those disgracing you, and the guiltless ones. As for men on the estates, I'd prefer we did not test them. There'll be enough time to do that later, if you recognize signs sent from Zeus who bears the aegis." So the two men talked about these things together.
29:37 Liv Albert? Meanwhile, the well-built ship which brought Telemachus from Pelos with his comrades had reached Ithaca. Once the crew had rowed the boat inside the harbor, they hauled the black ships up on shore. Eager servants carried away their weapons and, without delay, took the lavish gifts to the home of Cliteus. They also sent a herald to the royal home to report to wise Penelope, telling her Telemachus had gone to visit the estates, and had told the ship to sail off for the city, in case the noble lady might get sick at heart and start to weep. This herald and the swineherd met because they'd both been sent off with the same report to tell the queen. When they reached the royal palace, the herald spoke out in front of the female servants.
30:24 Liv Albert? My queen, your much-loved son has just returned. But the swineherd walked up straight to Penelope and informed her of all the details her dear son had instructed him to say. Once he had mentioned in his account what he had been ordered to report, he went away, leaving the courtyard and the hall to get back to his pigs. The suitors were unhappy, their hearts dismayed, and they departed from the hall, moving past the courtyard wall. There, before the gates, they sat down. The first one of them to speak a word was Eurymachus, son of Polybus. My friends, to tell the truth, in his great arrogance, Telemachus has carried out his trip and has had great success. We never thought he would complete it, so let's do something.
31:08 Liv Albert? Let's launch a, launch a ship, the very best we have. Collect some sailors, a crew of rowers, so they can quickly carry a report to those other men to come home at once.
31:18 Liv Albert? No sooner had he said this than Amphitamus, turning in his place, saw a ship in the deep harbor. Men were bringing down the sail, others holding oars. With a hearty laugh, he then addressed his comrades. Don't bother with the message anymore. They've arrived back home. Either some god gave them the news, or they saw his ship themselves and, as it sailed past, but could not attack it. He spoke. They all got up and went to the seashore, then quickly dragged the ship up onto drier ground, while eager attendants carried off the weapons. Then, in a large group, they went to their meeting place. No others were permitted to sit there with them, no old or younger men. Antinous addressed them, son of Epethys. Well, this is bad news.
32:01 Liv Albert? The gods made sure Telemachus was safe. Our lookout sat each day on windy heights, always in successive shifts. At sunset, we never spent the night on shore, but sailed over the sea in our swift ship, waiting for sacred dawn, as we set our ambush for Telemachus, so we could capture and then do away with him. But some god has brought him home again, so let's devise a sad end for Telemachus right here. Ensure he does not get away from us. For as long as he's alive, I don't think what we're doing will bring us much success. He himself is clever, shrewd in counsel, and people don't regard us well at all. So come now, before he calls Achaeans to assemble, I don't think he will concede.
32:43 Liv Albert? He'll get angry and stand up to proclaim to everyone how we planned to kill him and how our ambush failed. Then the people will turn against us once they learn about what we've done. Take care, they may harm us and force us out, away from our own homes, then send us off into a foreign land. Let's move first, capture him out in the fields, far from the city or else on the road. We suitors will retain his property and his wealth, with each of us receiving an appropriate share. As for his home, that's something we should let his mother keep, together with the man who marries her. If what I've been saying displeases you, if you prefer he still remains alive, retaining all the riches of his father's, let's not keep on gathering in this place, consuming his supply of pleasant things.
33:28 Liv Albert? Instead, let each man carry on his courtship from his home, seeking to prevail with gifts. She can marry the one who offers most, the husband her own fate has set for her.
33:39 Liv Albert? He finished, they all sat quiet, saying nothing. Then Amphidamas spoke out and addressed them, a son of noble Nissus, Articius's son, the leader of the suitors from Delikium, land rich in grass and wheat. Penelope found him especially pleasant because of the way he talked, for he understood things well, with good intentions. He spoke to them and said, "My friends, I would not want to slay Telemachus, it's reprehensible to kill someone of royal blood. But first, let's ask the gods for their advice. If Zeus's oracles approve the act, I myself will kill him and tell all other men to do so too. But if the gods decline, I say we stop."
34:21 Liv Albert? Amphidamas finished, they agreed with what he'd said, so they immediately got up and went away to Odysseus's house. Once they reached the palace, they sat on polished chairs in the great hall. By then, wise queen Penelope had thought of something else, to put in an appearance before the suitors, despite their arrogance, because she heard about their plot to kill Telemachus in his own home. The herald Medon, who heard their plans, had told her. So Penelope set out, moving to the hall, escorted by her attendant servant-women. As soon as the noble lady reached the suitors, she stood beside the door-post of the well-built room, and, holding a bright veil across her lovely face, she spoke to Antinous, reprimanding him.
35:06 Liv Albert? "Antinous, though you're an arrogant man and come up with crafty schemes, people say you are the best among those men your age at offering advice and making speeches. But you don't seem to be a man like that. You madman, why devise a fatal plan to kill Telemachus and disregard the things involved with being a suppliant, who has Zeus as a witness? It's impiety to plot evil things against each other. Do you not know how your father came here, a fugitive, afraid of his own people? They had grown extremely angry at him because he'd joined with Taffian pirates to cause trouble for the Thesproteans, who were allied with us. And those men wished to kill him, rip out his heart, and devour his huge and pleasant livelihood.
35:49 Liv Albert? But then Odysseus held them back, kept them in check for all their fury, and now you eat up that man's home without paying anything? You court his wife, attempt to kill his son, and cause me such distress. So stop all of this, I tell you, and order other suitors to do the same." Then Eurimachus, son of Polybus, answered her, and said, "Why, Penelope, child of Icarus, cheer up! Don't let these things concern your heart. No man living, no man born, and no one yet to be, will lay hands on your son, Telemachus. Not while I'm alive, gazing on the earth, I tell you, and this will truly happen. That man's black blood will quickly saturate my spear.
36:33 Liv Albert? For Odysseus, sacker of cities, also set me on his knees many times, and put roast meat into my hands, and held red wine up for me. Thus, Telemachus is far the dearest of all men to me. I say to him, 'Don't be afraid of death, not from the suitors, but there's no way out when our death comes from immortal gods.'"
36:55 Liv Albert? He said these words to ease her mood while he himself was planning how her son would die. Penelope climbed the stairs to her bright upper room and wept there for Odysseus, her dear husband, until sweet sleep from gleaming-eyed Athena spread across her eyes. At evening the fine swineherd came to Odysseus and to his son, both busy preparing dinner. They killed and singed a boar, a yearling. Athena went up to Odysseus and touched him with her wand, transforming him into an old man once again. She put shabby clothing on his body, in case the swineherd, by looking up, would recognize him and then go off to tell faithful Penelope, unable to keep secret what was in his heart.
37:41 Liv Albert? Telemachus addressed the swineherd first and said, "Eumaeus, you've come back from the city. Is there some news? Are these haughty suitors already in the house after their trip, or are they still out there waiting for me as I travel on my journey homeward?" Then swineherd Eumaeus, you answered him and said, "I did not bother to find out such things or ask any questions on my travels through the town. Once I'd given my report, my heart told me to get myself back here as quickly as I could. A swift messenger, who was sent by your companions, met me, a herald. Your mother got the first report from him, but I discovered something else, which I saw with my own eyes. As I walked above the city by the hill of Hermes, I saw a fast ship coming into harbor
38:23 Liv Albert? with lots of men aboard and loaded down with weapons, shields and two-edged spears. I thought it could be the suitors, but I'm not sure." Eumaeus finished. Telemachus, with a smile full of fresh confidence and strength, allowed his eyes to glance over at his father, avoiding contact with the swineherd. Then, once they had finished working and dinner was prepared, they ate a meal. Their hearts did not lack a thing. They shared the food as equals. When they had satisfied their hearts with food and drink, they thought of rest, and so they took the gift of sleep.
39:12 Liv Albert? This episode is brought to you by Quince. You know the drill. Quince makes elevated, everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and premium stretch denim. I have been speaking into a microphone about Quince for a while now, and I have no complaints. I have a bunch of their stuff. I've got a couple cute sweaters that, I mean, it's nearing sweater season, so those will be back in the rotation anytime now. And I have this leather bag that I absolutely love. It's like this braided leather, and I use it like basically every day. Because that's the thing, they have really great basics. Like, they have really great
39:57 Liv Albert? things that you can wear with so many other things. Just the options are endless. And as the weather gets colder, like all the sweaters in my closet, Quince has everything you need to round out your wardrobe. From warm, responsibly sourced down jackets and cozy cashmere scarves and gloves, to beautiful 14 karat gold jewelry that adds the perfect finishing touch. And of course, everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And if we haven't learned anything in the last 10 years, isn't it just getting rid of the middlemen, you know? Making things more affordable. So find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince.
40:42 Liv Albert? Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was me. Let's talk about myths, baby. It's the best way to support the show.
41:04 Speaker 03 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. No new tools, no extra logins. Just one subscription. Description that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Make work less work. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at G O O dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini.
41:34 Speaker 01 Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend.
41:39 Speaker 04 Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold. Through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception. They are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.
42:13 Speaker 01 Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
42:37 Liv Albert? Okay, that just kind of kept going. I missed stopping it earlier. So our little ad break right here is is just in between books because that was the entirety of book 16. And I will do book 17 also today. We are getting towards the end. And well, shit's gonna get violent. But in the meantime, I just, this is the problem. And a part of me, this is gonna be my, the mid, the mid ad question slash rant. I don't really have fresh questions from anyone. I think everyone has been pretty understandably consumed by the movie.
43:14 Liv Albert? Okay, that's a lie. I actually do have at least one listener question for this episode. But I will say, I just want to acknowledge, I have a handful of really great, great questions that have come in from all of you that are a bit either beyond the Odyssey readings, or just like bigger questions that I need to devote like a whole Q and A episode to. So I will be doing one of those soon. So that said, if you have questions, the Odyssey or beyond, that you want to submit for the next Q and A episode, which I'll probably record, I don't know, in the next week or two, submit them now, mythsbaby.com/questions, or we have, or rather, they're both at that website, but there's voice notes or just text questions. I love both or either. But in the meantime, I did want to acknowledge,
43:58 Liv Albert? I've had a few questions about like lost bits or pages, or like lost elements of the Odyssey and things like that. And I just want to say, I hear your questions. I see them. They are good. I need to do more research before I can answer them, which is why I haven't yet. But acknowledged, because I have like three, and that's delightful. And so this is something I really want to learn more about. And honestly, now that I think about it too, I am hoping to have a conversation with Joel Christensen, and I'm willing to bet that he will have way better answers about that than I could ever give. So with any luck, that'll be a kind of combo. But in the meantime, I just want to use this break to elaborate on a couple little things, slightly from the, the one thing I just want
44:41 Liv Albert? to tell you all from the movie is like objectively, one of the sillier changes that they made. And it's like absolutely low stakes. I don't think it made a big deal. I don't think it was an interesting choice personally, but I also think in terms of like, the various, you know, major choices that Christopher Nolan made, this one is like minor and just like kind of dumb. And thus, I want to make fun of it with you all. And it made me, I don't know if you can tell, I think I might have rerecorded it if I laughed too hard, but. Telemachus talk, when, when Telemachus is talking to Eumaeus and he's like, how did this guy get here? Like, he, he certainly didn't come by land. And then he specifically talks about how he came from Pelos. And he's like, yeah, nobody can come from land. Anyway, in Christopher Nolan's movie, for reasons that will never be
45:24 Liv Albert? understandable to me, he wanted to keep, so like, he, he made it so that Telemachus only goes to speak with Sparta. He only goes to visit Sparta and he gets this like, yeah, we get this utterly horrific adaptation of Sparta, which bums me out to no end. Yeah, they were, Christopher Nolan was really consumed by this whole like, I'm gonna weave in the, the Bronze Age collapse into this and it's gonna make it like really deep. Stupid. It was stupid. Anyway, um, outside of that, what he did was make Pelos like down the road from Ithaca. And simultaneously, he made it like a, a, um, cave, like a desert cave, um, temple?
46:09 Liv Albert? It's basically like the least Greek seeming thing ever. He has it so that like, also, he, he seems to not want to have, want, like, he, he seems to be disappointed by the fact that Telemachus doesn't actually get attacked by the suitors, that like Athena makes it not happen. So he makes it happen via this like fake temple to Athena at Pelos that literally looks like it's straight out of like the Mummy movie. It's really bizarre and, and now that I'm thinking about it and this, I will, I will talk about this somehow. I again, have to do more research before I can, but I just want to at least for now acknowledge that this reminds me the fact that it turns out that not only this movie, like, that is so clearly Western propaganda,
46:54 Liv Albert? like, there is a point where, where he has Odysseus saying like, when people forget how to write, this is all that we'll have. Like, it's such stupid shit. It's such stupid shit. They didn't hire any Greek people and yet it's like Western propaganda via Greek mythology. Anyways, fucking stupid. But on top of that, they filmed it in occupied territory. They filmed it in the Western Sahara, which is illegally occupied by Morocco. It is land where the indigenous peoples have been forced off by
47:30 Liv Albert? an illegal occupation.
47:35 Liv Albert? And he was like, let's film it there. The irony, the, the lack of cog, like the cognitive dissonance between these people who think like, he, he thought he was making a woke movie. He's getting accused of making a quote unquote woke movie. He filmed it on occupied territory in Africa. Like, are we, are, like, be so fucking for real. Be so fucking for real. And anyway, that thus, thus ends my Nolan's Odyssey rant. I'm going to answer one quick and fun question and then we'll get into the next book of the Odyssey. Um, this question
48:17 Liv Albert? comes from Sophia, who was on one of our group trips last year. Hey, Sophia. Um, I, oh my God, I miss those. It's officially been over a year since I've been to Greece, which is, I know it's such a brag, but like, oh, I, it's been, I, I've been going like at least once a year, but really ridiculously twice a year for a few years now. And this is the first year it's been over a year since I've been there. And my heart aches. My heart aches. I miss it. I went to get Greek food for my birthday on the weekend and I was just speaking Greek to this guy in Toronto, which was delightful because we have a Greek enough population that it was like this little pocket of, of being at a, at a Greek taverna. And then, uh, anyway, sorry. Now I'm just rambling about how much I miss Greece, but
48:58 Liv Albert? I'm answering this question from Sophia. Sophia asked, when, when people sacrifice meat to the gods, do they imagine they receive this meat and eat it somehow? Or is it only the fact that the humans are in fact sacrificing a good part of the meal they would have liked to eat themselves and this gesture is of devotion? Or is it something like a transmutation of the life force ripped from the creature that somehow arrives at the gods as energy? I think it's kind of a fascinating thing to visualize. As far as I remember, whenever we hear the gods eating it, is it only ambrosia, which is a type of honey? And so weird how that evolved or devolved into later Christians who imagine that they are eating the body of their god. That end bit, absolutely fascinating because oh my God, it's so, yeah, it's so connected.
49:42 Liv Albert? So the sacrifice is really interesting to me from um, from a perspective of like the full religious understanding. I am not confident in my response, but from the mythological understanding, which are sometimes connected and sometimes pretty different, which is why I say that. From the mythological perspective, it's not that they're eating it. So it's, it's really fascinating actually, because I think it conveys the ways that religion is so intentionally used by its people in ways that particularly ancient religions or like non,
50:23 Liv Albert? I don't know enough, but like not, I will say not Christian, but it reminds me of how, how like a, a not specific indigenous people might feel towards a religion, but it just reminds me of more of that broader understanding in the way that it seems to be. The Greeks had a much more like reciprocal is the word I want. They had like a reciprocal relationship with their gods and their religion. It was a little bit less like devotional in the way that I think like maybe Judeo-Christian or modern religions tend to be, but again, I'm, I'm super atheist, so I just don't know. But, but in terms of how it like manifested, what they
51:05 Liv Albert? gave to the gods was, is actually basically inedible to humans, but that comes with a story, right? So the story is that um Prometheus tricked the gods in order to help the humans. It's one of Prometheus's many stories of tricking the other gods to help the humans. And in this case, it's sort of, I forget the original sourcing on this, but the, the broad myth that lives in my head is that it is, you know, sort of early humanity period of the mythos, when Prometheus has this opportunity to help to give them fire, and then he does this as well. So uh, the idea is that in this early form of humanity, Zeus makes this request.
51:48 Liv Albert? He says that the humans have to sacrifice their best meat, or rather the sacrifice animals and to burn the best meat for the gods, right? And so naturally that, like you said in, in your question, Sophia is like, I mean, that to me, that's what it feels like Christian, right? Like it's like a tie. It's whatever you have to give up. You have to give up something that would have benefited you as a human. You have to burn it, make it inedible for you in order to devote to the gods, right? And so that's the original story. But then the Prometheus of it all is that he taught the humans how to trick the gods so that they did not have to burn
52:33 Liv Albert? their best cuts of meat and in fact could burn and sacrifice or rather like burning that part is what's for the gods. The whole sacrifice, obviously, but primarily the sacrifice of the animal is meant to feed the people. And you just have to do this element for the gods. And what they did is that, you know, Zeus wanted the best cuts of meat. And so Prometheus advised the people to, um, to take like all the nastiest, least edible bits, the like, I don't know what's least edible of an animal, but like they, he suggested they take all of that, like the gristle, whatever, the stuff you basically don't want
53:13 Liv Albert? to eat or can't eat, wrap it around the thigh bones and then wrap it in a layer of fat. And then so that layer of fat and the bone makes it seem like the most appealing cuts of meat are being given to the gods. So by like, they layer this fat around it to make it appealing whilst simultaneously reserving the best cuts of meat for the humans. And so that's what I mean by like reciprocal, right? Like it comes, it feels to me like it's just lots of different mentalities being kind of co-mingled in a way that like singular modern religions just don't like maybe it's the monotheism of it all as compared to this because it's like Zeus made this.
53:59 Liv Albert? Fairly tyrannical request of early humans and Prometheus is like, oop, that's not sustainable, long term. And so he gets them this workaround. And so during the actual process, you know, an animal is sacrificed. It's quite the whole to do. I am a reluctant meat eater, so I won't go into such detail. But like the, the actual sacrifice is a big part of the, the ceremony itself. But from a practical perspective, they were very smart about the meat. They recognized that it would not be sustainable to be giving to burning, ruining the food that is most edible to them just to devote to their gods.
54:40 Liv Albert? Like they were, there's this reciprocal, this like understanding of the world alongside religion. To be like, nope, that's not doable. So then they have this myth outside of it that then gives them this explanatory, you know, I mean, it's an explanatory myth for, for why they can keep the best meat for themselves and they don't have to waste it on the gods. But at the same time, they are still honoring the gods, exactly how the gods ask to be honored. I, I, I actually, I love that question because it's something I generally find really fascinating. Because, I mean, especially in the Iliad and the Odyssey,
55:20 Liv Albert? you often hear of sacrificing hecatomes of cattle, and that is a hundred. A hecatome is, is a hundred cattle. And I remember I had an episode a while back with Flint Dibble, who, who studies like zoo archaeology specifically. So like animal bones are his jam. And I asked him about that because I was like, dude, I think about the hecatomes all the time. That's literally so many animals. And particularly like on the plains of Troy, like where are they getting a hecatome of cattle? But that's a whole other question. But he was saying like,
55:56 Liv Albert? He considers a lot of this kind of um food, you know, spe- like thi- this is food porn in the ancient world is basically the the gist of it is that he was like, you know, it's not necessarily like re um showing what is actually happening on a day to day basis with people, but it's more of that kind of um like the hope, you know, because they they don't have that many cattle like Greece is not great for cattle because it's really mountainous. They've got a lot of goats, right? And a lot of sheep and stuff like that. And they've got some pigs, but broadly like they are not, they're not gorging on cattle all of the time. They're not gorging on cattle to the degree that
56:39 Liv Albert? the sources might suggest. And it's sort of more of this like aspirational, like, look what we could have. Like, the thing that's just came to my mind as a comparison is like in um Hook, the movie Hook, you know, the Lost Boys like invent food as this kind of, you know, aspirational, this way to make themselves feel like they have more than they do. Anyway, so I that's great question all around. I I'm really, I gotta get back into the actual reading, but I'm so thrilled to have that question. Thank you, Sophia.
57:29 Speaker 03 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets and more. No new tools, no extra logins, just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Make work less work. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at G O O dot G L E slash Workspace with Gemini.
58:00 Speaker 05 Hello, I'm Chris Richards, general manager at Safran Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.
58:09 Speaker 06 Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, special finance manager at SafranCredit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit SafranCredit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.
58:29 Speaker 01 Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend.
58:34 Speaker 04 In today's information ecosystem, it can be easy to hear the same voices over and over. I'm Mary Harris, host of What Next from Slate.com, and I do not want to hear the same voices over and over. I want to hear from the upstarts. Hassan, Adam, welcome to the show.
58:52 Speaker 05 I disavow myself all the time. Every day I wake up, I'm like, I disavow myself.
58:56 Speaker 04 I want to hear from the people on the ground.
58:58 Speaker 07 I videoed one ICE detainment. One of the ICE agents walked up and tried to hand me a little plastic Jesus.
59:06 Speaker 04 And I want to hear from tomorrow's leaders today.
59:09 Speaker 03 I've been arrested because I'm a political opponent to the harm and the cruelty that they are pushing.
59:15 Speaker 04 That's why I host What Next. We are a different kind of daily news podcast. One story a day, five incredible voices a week. We see the news from the bottom up, not the top down. Daily news from a human being. Follow What Next now, wherever you get your podcasts.
59:34 Speaker 01 Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
59:59 Liv Albert? This is Homer's Odyssey, Book Seventeen.
1:00:04 Liv Albert? As soon as rose-fingered early dawn appeared, Telemachus, dear son of godlike Odysseus, tied sandals on his feet, took a powerful spear well suited to his grip, and, as he headed off towards the city, called out to the swine herd, "Old friend, I'm now leaving for the city so I can see my mother. I don't think her dreadful grieving and her sorry tears will stop until she sees me for herself, so I'm telling you to do as follows: Take this vagrant stranger to the city. Once there, he can beg for food from any man who will offer him bread and cups of water. I can't take on the weight of everyone, not when I have these sorrows in my heart. As for the stranger, if he's upset at this, things will be worse for him. Those are the facts, and I prefer to speak the truth."
1:00:50 Liv Albert? Odysseus, that adventurous man, then answered him and said, "Friend, I myself am not all that eager to be held back here. For a beggar man, it's best to ask people for a meal inside cities instead of in the fields. Whoever's willing should give me something. For an old man, it's not appropriate to linger any longer at the farm, obeying everything a master says. So you should be on your way. This swine herd, who you give orders to, will take me there as soon as I've warmed up beside the fire and the sun gets hot. These clothes I'm wearing are miserably bad, and I'm afraid the morning frost may be too much for me. You say the city is a long way off."
1:01:30 Liv Albert? Odysseus finished. Telemachus walked away, out through the farmyard, moving at a rapid pace. He was sowing seeds of trouble for the suitors. When he entered the beautifully furnished home, he carried in his spear and set it in its place against a looming pillar. Then he moved inside, across the stone threshold. His nurse, Euroclaea, saw him before the others, while spreading fleeces out on the finely crafted chairs. She burst out crying, rushed straight up to him, and other female servants of brave Odysseus... were quick to gather round them. They kissed his head and shoulders in loving welcome. Then, from her chamber, wise Penelope emerged, looking like Artemis or golden Aphrodite.
1:02:12 Liv Albert? She embraced the son she loved while shedding tears and kissed his head and both his beautiful eyes. As her eyes wept, she spoke to him, her words had wings. You've returned, Telemachus, you sweet light. I thought I'd never see you anymore when you secretly sailed off to Pelos in that ship against my wishes, seeking some report of your dear father. So come, describe for me what you have heard of him. Prudent Telemachus then answered her and said, Mother, do not encourage me to grieve or get the heart inside my chest stirred up. I've just escaped being utterly destroyed. You should have a bath and put fresh clothing on your body. Then, with your attendance, go up to your upper chambers and promise the gods you'll
1:02:57 Liv Albert? make a perfect sacrifice if Zeus will somehow bring to fulfillment actions which will give us retribution. I'll go to the place where we assemble so I can call upon a foreign man who came with me on my trip from Pelos. I sent him to town with my fine comrades, telling Piraeus to make him welcome, to treat him kindly, and to honor him until I got there. Telemachus finished. Penelope was quiet. No winged words flew from her. She bathed herself, took fresh clothing for her body, and promised she would offer a perfect sacrifice to all the gods if Zeus would somehow bring about a way of gaining her revenge against the suitors. Telemachus walked through the hall, gripping his spear. Two swift dogs went with him.
1:03:41 Liv Albert? Athena poured on him such marvelous beauty that, as he moved along, all people gazed at him. The arrogant suitors thronged around him, making gentle conversation, but deep within their hearts they nurtured evil plans. Avoiding the main group of them, he chose a seat where Mentor, Antiphas, and Halitherses sat, companions of his father many years ago. They asked him all kinds of questions. Then Piraeus, the well-known spearmen, approached, leading the stranger through the city to the place where they assembled. Telemachus did not keep his back turned for long upon the stranger, but went up to him. Piraeus was the first to speak. Telemachus, get some women to hurry to my home so I may have those gifts brought here
1:04:26 Liv Albert? to you, the ones from Metelaus. Shrewd Telemachus then answered him, "Praeus, we don't know how these matters will turn out. If these overbearing suitors kill me and my own halls in secret and divide the goods my father owns amongst themselves, I'd much prefer you keep those gifts yourself, and enjoy them more than any of those men. But if I sow a lethal fate for them, then bring those presents to me in my home, for I will be rejoicing in my heart." With these words, he led the long-suffering stranger towards the house. When they reached the stately palace, they removed their cloaks, put them on the stools and chairs, and went into the polished tubs to take a bath. After the attending women had washed both men,
1:05:09 Liv Albert? rubbed their bodies down with oil, and wrapped around them woolen cloaks and tunics, they came out from the bath and both of them sat down. A servant brought water in a lovely golden pitcher and poured it out into a silver bowl so they could wash their hands. Beside both men, she set in place a polished table. The worthy housekeeper brought bread and set it down, then added plates of meat, giving freely from her stores. Telemachus's mother sat across from him by the doorpost of the hall, leaning from her seat to spin fine threads of yarn. They reached out with their hands to take the fine food prepared and set before them. When they had satisfied their hearts with food and drink, the first to speak to them was wise Penelope.
1:05:52 Liv Albert? "Telemachus, once I've gone up to my room, I'll lie in bed, which has become for me a place of sorrow, always damp with tears, ever since Odysseus sailed off to Troy with Atreus's sons. Yet you don't dare to tell me clearly of your father's trip, before those haughty suitors come back here and shame my house? No word of what you learned?" Prudent Telemachus then answered her and said, "All right then, mother, I'll tell you the truth. First we sailed to Pelos and reached Nestor, shepherd of his people. He welcomed us into his home with hospitality and kindness, like a father for a son who has just returned from far-off places after many years. That's how Lord Nestor looked after me, helped by his splendid sons with loving care."
1:06:36 Liv Albert? But of brave Odysseus alive or dead, he had not heard a thing from any man on earth. He sent me off with horses and a well-built chariot to that famous spearmen Menelaus, son of Atreus. I saw Argive Helen, for whom countless Trojans and Achaeans struggled hard, as the will of the gods decreed. Menelaus, skilled at war shouts, at once questioned me. Why had I come to Sparta? What was I looking for? I told the truth, all the details. He answered me and said, "That is disgraceful! They want to lie down in the bed of a courageous warrior when they themselves are cowards, just as if a doe has put two newborn suckling fawns in a lion's thicket, so they can sleep and roam mountain slopes and grassy valleys seeking pasture.
1:07:19 Liv Albert? And then the lion comes back to that lair and brings a dismal fate for both those fawns. That is how Odysseus will bring those men to their disastrous end. By father Zeus, Athena, and Apollo, how I wish he could be as he once was, in well-built lesbos, in a wrestling match, when he stood and fought Philomelides, threw him decisively, and all Achaeans felt great joy. If he were that sort of man, Odysseus might well mingle with the suitors and destroy them all, a bitter courtship. As for the things you're asking me about, begging me to speak, I'll not evade them or lead you astray. No, I won't neglect or hide a single word that I was told by that all-knowing old man of the sea.
1:08:02 Liv Albert? He claimed to me that he had seen Odysseus on an island suffering great distress in the nymph Calypso's home. She keeps him there by force. He can't get to his native land because he has no ship available, no oars, and no companions who might transport him on the broad back of the sea. That's what great spearmen Menelaus said, the son of Atreus. When I was finished, I came home, and the immortals gave me favoring winds which quickly carried me back to my home once more. Telemachus's words stirred the heart within her chest. Then among the group Theoclimenus, a godlike man, spoke out and said, "Noble wife of Odysseus, Laertes's son, Menelaus has no certain knowledge.
1:08:44 Liv Albert? You should attend to what I have to say, for I will make a truthful prophecy and not conceal a thing. Now, let Lord Zeus, first among the gods, act as my witness, and this fine table welcoming your guests and the hearth of excellent Odysseus, which I have reached. Odysseus is, in fact, in Ithaca already, sitting still or moving, learning of these wicked acts and sowing trouble for every suitor. That's how I interpret that bird omen which I saw, sitting on the well-decked ship. That's what I told Telemachus back then."
1:09:18 Liv Albert? Wise Penelope then answered him and said, "Ah, stranger, how I wish what you've said might come about, for then you'd quickly learn how kind we are, how many gifts I'd give. Anyone you met would call you blessed." That is how they talked to one another of these things. Meanwhile, in front of the palace of Odysseus, the suitors were relaxing, throwing a discus and tossing javelins on a patch of level ground, as was their custom, displaying their arrogance. When it was time for dinner and the sheep arrived, coming from the fields in all directions, with those whose task it was to drive them there, Medon spoke up. He was the herald they liked more than all the rest, and he was always with them when they had a feast.
1:10:03 Liv Albert? "Young men, now you have entertained your hearts with tests of skill, so come inside the house and we'll prepare a meal. There's nothing wrong with eating when it's time to have some food." Medon spoke. Persuaded by his words, the suitors stood up and moved away. When they reached the palace, they removed their cloaks and draped them on stools and chairs. Men sacrificed huge sheep and goats with lots of fat. They killed some plump hogs and a heifer from the herd as they prepared the meal. Meanwhile, Odysseus and the loyal swineherd were hastening to leave their country fields and start walking to the city. Eumaeus, a worthy man, was the first to speak. "Stranger, you are eager to reach the town, as my master asked, and to go today.
1:10:47 Liv Albert? Myself, I'd rather leave you at the farm to guard it, but I respect and fear him, for he may reprimand me afterwards, and a master's punishment can be severe." So come now, let's be off. Most of the day has passed already, and even the eat and as evening comes, you'll quickly sense how cold the air can get. Resourceful Odysseus then answered him and said, I see that. I know you're talking to a man who understands. So let's be setting out. You take the lead, show me the way to town, but if you've got a pole somewhere that's cut for you to lean on, then give it to me, for you did say the road is slippery.
1:11:25 Liv Albert? Odysseus finished, then threw around his shoulders his tattered bag, full of holes, with a twisted strap. Eumaeus offered Odysseus a staff he liked. Then the two of them set off, while dogs and herdsman remained behind to guard the farmyard. The swineherd led his master to the city like a beggar, leaning on his stick, an old and wretched vagrant, with his body covered by shabby threadbare rags. But as they made their way along the rugged path, getting near the city, they reached a well-made spring, built by Ithicus, Naritus, and Polycyto, where townsfolk drew their water from a steady flow. Around it was a poplar grove, fed by its stream. They grew on all sides of the stream, cold water
1:12:08 Liv Albert? flowed down from a rock above. High up on the summit, an altar had been dedicated to the nymphs, where all the people passing by made offerings. Here, Melanthius, son of Doleus, met them. He was driving a herd of goats, the finest ones in all the flocks, to serve as dinner for the suitors. Two herdsmen followed him. When he caught sight of them, Melanthius started yelling shameful insults. Odysseus, in his heart, was enraged at such abuse. Now here we have a truly filthy man, leading on another filthy scoundrel. As always, a god matches like with like, you wretched swineherd. Where are you off to with this disgusting pig, this beggar man, a tedious boar who will interrupt our feasts? He'll
1:12:52 Liv Albert? rub his shoulders on many doorposts, begging scraps, no need for sword or cauldron. If you'd let me have him guard my farmyard, clean out the pens, and carry tender shoots to my young goats, then he could drink down way and put some muscle on those thighs. ...size of his, but since he's picked up thieving habits, he has no urge to cope with real work. No, he'd rather creep around the country and beg food to fill his bottomless gut. I'll tell you something, and this will happen if he goes into the home of brave Odysseus, many a footstool hurled by real men will hit his ribs and all parts of his head when he gets tossed around all through the house.
1:13:32 Liv Albert? Melanthius spoke, and as he moved on past them, the stupid herder kicked Odysseus on the hip. But that did not dislodge Odysseus from the path. He stood there without budging. He was wondering whether he should charge in and kill him with his staff, or grab him by the waist, lift him up, and smash his head down on the ground. But he controlled himself, checking the fury in his heart. Eumaeus looked at the man, scolded him, then, lifting up his hands in prayer, he cried aloud, "You spring nymphs, daughters of Zeus, if for your sake Odysseus ever burned pieces of thigh from lambs or from young goats richly wrapped in fat, grant me this prayer, let my master come, guided by some god. He would soon shatter the rude presumption that
1:14:15 Liv Albert? you now, in your insolence display, always wandering down into the town while wicked herdsmen devastate our flocks." Melanthius the goat herd answered him and said, "Dear me, the things this crafty mongrel says. I'll take him someday on a trim black ship far from Ithaca. He can make me rich. Oh, how I wish Apollo's silver bow would strike Telemachus in his own house this very day, or that he'd be silenced by all the suitors. For the day Odysseus will be returning home has disappeared in some land far away." Melanthius said this and left them there, as they trudged slowly onward. He strode
1:14:58 Liv Albert? ahead and quickly reached the royal house. He went in at once and sat among the suitors, opposite Eurymachus, who was fond of him, more so than were the others. A household servant set down a portion of the meat in front of him. The worthy housekeeper then carried in the bread and placed it there for him to eat. Meanwhile, Odysseus and the loyal swine herd paused as they came closer. Around them rang the music of the hollow lyre, and for Themius was striking up a song to sing before the suitors. Odysseus clutched the swine herd by the hand and said to him, Eumaeus, this place surely is the splendid palace belonging to Odysseus. It's easy to recognize even when one sees it so among so many others.
1:15:41 Liv Albert? For here there is building after building in this courtyard. It's finished off with walls and coping stones, and there's a double gateway well fenced in. No man could criticize a house like this. I notice many men are eating here. There's smoke from roasting meat above the house, and a lyre is playing. A god made that to serve our companion at a feast. Then swine heard Eumaeus, you answered him and said, "You recognized it easily enough, for in other things you're quite perceptive. But come, let's consider how this business will be carried out. Either you go first and move inside the finely furnished house to join the suitors while I stay outside, or if you wish, stay here, I'll go ahead.
1:16:22 Liv Albert? But don't hang around for long, just in case someone sees you out here and hits you or starts throwing something. That's my advice, you should think about it." Long-suffering Odysseus then said to Eumaeus, "I know, I see that, but you're talking to a man who understands. But you go on ahead, I'll stay out here. Having things thrown at me or being hit is nothing new. My heart can bear all that, for I've put up with numerous hardships in war and on the waves. So let all this be added in with those. There is no way someone can hide a ravenous stomach, that torment which brings mortal men such grief. Because of it, they launch their well-built ships and transport evil to their enemies across the restless seas."
1:17:07 Liv Albert? And so these two men talked to each other about these things. Then a dog, prone in the dirt, raised its head and pricked up its ears. It was Argus, brave Odysseus's hunting dog, whom he himself had brought up many years ago. But before he could enjoy being with the hound, he'd left for sacred Troy. In earlier days, young men would take the dog to hunt wild goats, deer, and rabbits. But now with his master gone, he lay neglected, in the piles of dung left there by mules and cattle, heaped up before the doors, until the household slaves took it to manure some large field. Argus lay there, covered in fleas. But then, when he saw Odysseus who was coming closer,
1:17:52 Liv Albert? Argus wagged his tail and dropped his ears. But he no longer had the strength to approach his master. Odysseus looked away and brushed aside a tear, heeded so casually to hide it from Eumaeus. Then he questioned him. "Eumaeus, it's strange this dog is lying here, in this dung. He has a handsome body, I'm not sure if his speed once matched his looks, or if he's like those table dogs men have, the pets their masters raise and keep for show. Then swineherd Eumaeus, you answered him and said, 'Yes, this dog belongs to a man who died somewhere far away. If he had the form and acted as he did when Odysseus left him and went to Troy, you'd quickly see his speed and strength, and then you'd be amazed.
1:18:37 Liv Albert? No wild animal he chased escaped him in deep, thick woods, for he could track a scent. He's in a bad way now, his master's dead in some foreign land, and careless women don't look after him. For when their masters no longer exercise their power, slaves have no desire to do their proper work. For Zeus steals half the value of a man the day he's taken and becomes a slave." Ugh! This said, Eumaeus went inside the stately palace, straight into the hall to join the noble suitors. But once he'd seen Odysseus after nineteen years, Argus died, seized by the fatal clutch of death.
1:19:20 Liv Albert? As the swineherd Eumaeus came inside the house, godlike Telemachus was the first to see him, well before the others. He quickly summoned him by nodding. Eumaeus looked around, then picked up a stool where a servant usually sat, and carved massive cuts of meat to feed the suitors when they were feasting in the house. He took this stool, placed it by Telemachus's table, facing him, and then sat down. Meanwhile, a herald offered him a portion of the meat, set it in front of him, and helped him to some bread served in a basket. Odysseus came in the house behind Eumaeus, looking like an old and miserable beggar, leaning on his staff with his body dressed in rags. He sat on the ash wood threshold in the doorway, propping his back against a post of cypress wood,
1:20:05 Liv Albert? which a craftsman had cut and planed with utmost skill and set in true alignment. Then Telemachus called the swineherd to him and from the basket took an entire loaf, and as much meat as he could hold in both hands. As he did this, he spoke to him. "Take this food and give it to the stranger. Tell him he can move among the suitors and solicit each of them in person. When a man is hungry, they say that shame is not a good companion." Telemachus spoke. Once he had heard these words, Eumaeus went and stood beside Odysseus, then spoke to him. His words had wings. "Stranger, Telemachus gives you this food and invites you to move around and beg among the suitors, each in turn. He says, when one's in need, it's bad to feel ashamed."
1:20:50 Liv Albert? Resourceful Odysseus then answered him and said, "May Lord Zeus, I pray, grant Telemachus be blessed among the gods. May he obtain whatever his heart desires." Once he'd said this, he took the food in his two hands and set it down right there at his feet, on his tattered bag, and ate, while the minstrel sang to those feasting in the hall. When he had eaten and the godlike singer finished, the suitors were causing an uproar in the room. Athena approached Odysseus, Lertes's son, and urged him to beg for bread from all the suitors, so he might find out those who did respect the law and those who flouted their traditions. Even so, she would not let any of them evade his fate.
1:21:33 Liv Albert? Odysseus then moved off to beg for scraps of bread, holding his hand out to each of them on every side, starting on the right, as if he had been a beggar for years and years. They pitied him and gave him bread, then asked about him, questioning one another, who he was and where he came from. Then the goat herd Melanthius spoke out to them. "Listen to me, those of you courting the glorious queen about this stranger. I've seen him before. The swineherd was the one who brought him here. I don't know his identity for sure, or the family he claims to come from." Once he said this, Antinous turned to Eumaeus to reprimand him.
1:22:12 Liv Albert? You really are a man who cares for pigs. Why bring this fellow here into the city? As far as vagrants go, we do not have enough apart from him, greedy beggars who disrupt our banquets. Do you believe too few of them come here and waste away your master's livelihood, so you invite this man to come as well? Then Swedherdumeas, you answered him and said, Antinous, you may be a noble man, but what you've said is not a worthy speech. Who looks for strangers from another land and then in person asks them to come in unless they're workers in a public space, prophets, healers of disease, house builders, or gifted minstrels who sing for our delight? Such men are summoned to where people live everywhere on boundless earth, but no one invites a beggar to consume his goods.
1:22:54 Liv Albert? You are abusive to my master's slaves, more so than any of the other suitors, especially to me. But I don't care, not while faithful Penelope lives here with brave Telemachus inside these halls. Then prudent Telemachus answered him and said, Be quiet. For my sake, don't reply to him with a long speech. It's Antinous's habit always to offer nasty provocation, to start a quarrel with abusive words. He urges men to do the same. That said, he spoke to Antinous. His words had wings. Antinous, you really do care for me, like fathers for their sons, when you tell me in your forceful way to drive this stranger from the house.
1:23:36 Liv Albert? May God forbid such action. Take some food and give it to him yourself. I don't mind. I'm asking you to do it. You need not worry about my mother or any of the servants in this house belonging to godlike Odysseus. But still, there is no thought like this inside your heart. You'd much prefer to stuff yourself with food than give it to another man. Antinous then answered him and said, Telemachus, you're a braggart and won't control your rage. What are you saying? If every suitor offered him as much as I will, this house would make him stay away at least three months. As he said this, he picked up a stool standing there where he used to rest his shining feet while feasting, and lifted it up high, as if about to throw it.
1:24:21 Liv Albert? But every other suitor offered Odysseus food, and so his bag was quickly filled with meat and bread, enough to make him stop and shuffle to his place, back in the doorway where he could squat down and eat the food the suitors gave. But he stopped by Antinous and spoke to him, saying, "My friend, give something. You don't seem to me the worst decan, but one of the best. You have a regal look, so you should give a bigger piece of bread than other men. I'd publicize your fame across the boundless earth. For once, I, too, lived among those in my home, a rich man with a happy life. There were many times I'd offer presents to some vagabond." No matter who he was or what he needed when he came, I had countless servants and many
1:25:06 Liv Albert? other things that people have when they live well and are considered rich. But Zeus, son of Cronos, destroyed all that. That's what he wanted, I suppose. He sent me with some roaming pirates off to Egypt, a lengthy trip. He wanted me to die. I moored my curving ships inside Egypt's river, and told my loyal comrades to stay there and protect the ships. Then I sent out scouts to go up to the lookouts, but the crew, giving way to impulse and counting on their numbers, quickly set off to ravage the attractive farms of the Egyptians, capturing the women and their children while slaughtering the men. The cry went up, and soon it reached the city. Hearing noise, the people came as soon as dawn appeared.
1:25:48 Liv Albert? The entire plain was filled with men on foot and in chariots armed with gleaming bronze. Then Zeus, who hurls the thunderbolt, threw down dreadful panic on my crew. None of them dared stand and face up to the enemy. Disaster loomed for us from every side. With their sharp bronze, they killed a lot of us, but others they led off while still alive, so they could be compelled to work for them. They gave me to a stranger they had met, bound for Cyprus, Demitor, son of Viasus, a man with power and king of Cyprus. From there I reached this place in great distress. Then Antinous answered him and said, What God sent this nuisance to interrupt our feast?
1:26:31 Liv Albert? Leave my table alone. Go over there, in the middle, or you'll find yourself somewhere worse than Cyprus or in Egypt. You're an insolent and shameless beggar. You come up to each of us, one by one, and they give you things with no holding back. And there's no check or scruple when one gives from someone else's goods, and each of us has much food set here in front of him.
1:26:53 Liv Albert? Resourceful Odysseus then moved back and replied, Well, now it seems as if the mind of yours doesn't match your looks. You'd refuse to give even a grain of salt from your own house to a follower of yours, and now you sit in someone else's house and do not dare to take some bread and offer it to me? And yet there's plenty right in front of you?
1:27:14 Liv Albert? Odysseus finished. Antinous, deep in his heart, was even angrier than before. He glared at him, and with a scowl gave his response. His words had wings. I do not think you'll leave this hall unharmed, now that you've begun to babble insults. As he said these words, he grabbed the stool and threw it. It hit Odysseus at the base of his right shoulder, where it joins the back, but he stood firm, like a rock. What Antinous had thrown did not make him stagger. He shook his head in silence, making cruel plans. He shuffled to the door, set down his well-stuffed bag, crouched in the entranceway, and addressed the suitors. Listen to me, you suitors of the queen, for in my chest my heart prompts me to speak. A man's
1:27:59 Liv Albert? heart feels no pain and does not grieve when he's hit fighting for the things he owns, for cattle's or white sheep. But Antinous just struck me, thanks to my wretched belly, that curse which brings such pain to mortal men. So if beggars have their gods and furies, may Antinous come to a fatal end before his wedding day. Antinous, Eupithys's son, gave him this reply. Sit still and eat, stranger, or go someplace else, in case younger men haul you through the house by your hands and feet, for what you say, scraping your whole body. He finished, but though all those proud men were furious, and one of the more insolent young men spoke out.
1:28:41 Liv Albert? "Antinous, it was wrong of you to hit the wretched beggar, and you may be doomed if somehow he's a god come down from heaven, for gods can truly make themselves appear like foreign strangers, assuming many shapes and haunting cities to investigate men's pride and their obedience to laws." That's what the suitor said. However, Antinous paid no attention to their words. Telemachus, having seen the blow, felt pain growing in his heart, but no tear passed his eyelids and dripped onto the floor. He remained silent, shaking his head and planning dark schemes in his heart. But when wise Penelope heard that the stranger had been hit inside the hall, she spoke out to her attendant women, saying, "Ugh, how I wish Antinous mu- might be struck by the
1:29:26 Liv Albert? famous archer god Apollo." The housekeeper, old Eurimy, said to her, "If what we all pray for could be fulfilled, not one of them would see dawn's lovely throne." Wise Penelope then answered her, "Good nurse, they are all enemies with evil plans, but Antinous more than any of them is like black fate. Some unhappy stranger wanders through the house begging from the men; his own needs drive him to it; the others, all of them, give him gifts and fill his bag, but Antinous threw a footstool at him and hit a bone in his right shoulder blade." So Penelope talked with her serving women, sitting in her upper room while Odysseus
1:30:07 Liv Albert? ate. Then she called out to the loyal swineherd, saying, "Good Eumaeus, go and ask the stranger to come here, so I can greet him warmly, and ask if he perhaps has heard about my brave Odysseus, or, or caught sight of him with his own eyes, for he looks like a man who's spent a long time wandering around." Then, swine heard Eumaeus, you answered her and said, "How I wish Achaeans would keep quiet, my queen, for he tells the kinds of stories which delight one's heart. I had him with me for three nights, and for three days I kept him in my hut. He came to me first of all, he was fleeing in secret from a ship. He never finished what he had to say of his misfortunes, just as any man hears a minstrel who sings enticing songs to mortal men,
1:30:50 Liv Albert? ones the gods have taught him, and there's no end to his desire for more, no matter what he sings. That's how this man enchanted me, as he sat in my home. He claims that he's a guest friend of Laertes from Crete, where the race of Minos lives. He's come from there, after many hardships, he keeps wandering from place to place. He insists he's heard about Odysseus, who is close by, living in the rich land of Thesperotians, with many treasures which he intends to bring back home. Wise Penelope then answered him, "Go and call him here, he can tell me for himself. Let the men keep sitting in the hall or at the door, enjoying themselves, their hearts are cheerful. Their own possessions lie untouched at home, sweet wine and bread, which their house servants eat.
1:31:35 Liv Albert? But they fill up our home all, day after day, butchering our cattle, fat sheep and goats, carousing and drinking our gleaming wine without restraint. Much of it is wasted. There's no one like Odysseus here who will guard our house from ruin. If Odysseus came back here to Ithaca, he and his son would quickly seek revenge on all these men for their unseemly ways." As Penelope said this, Telemachus gave a mighty sneeze. It echoed through the house. Penelope laughed and quickly spoke some winged words to Eumaeus. "Call the stranger, bring him here before me. Did you not see my son sneezing at everything I said? The complete destruction of the suitors will not go unfulfilled, for all of them, not one will flee his fatal destiny.
1:32:19 Liv Albert? I'll tell you something else, lay it to heart. If I can see he's telling the truth, I'll offer him fine clothes, a cloak and tunic." Penelope finished. Once Eumaeus heard her, he went off and, standing close beside Odysseus, spoke to him, his words had wings. Honored stranger, wise Penelope is summoning you, Telemachus's mother, for her heart, in spite of bearing much anxiety, is urging her to ask about her husband. If she perceives that everything you say is true, she'll give you a cloak and a tunic, things you desperately need. As for food, you can beg for it throughout the country and fill your stomach, whoever's willing to give it to you. Long-suffering Lord Odysseus then answered him:
1:33:01 Liv Albert? "Eumaeus, I'll tell the truth, all the details, to wise Penelope, daughter of Acharius, and quickly, too. I know Odysseus well, for both of us have had the same misfortunes. But I fear this abusive crowd of suitors, whose pride and violence reach up to iron heaven. Just now, as I was moving through the house doing nothing wrong, one of them struck me and caused me pain, and no one sitting there, not even Telemachus, could do a thing to stop him. So you should tell Penelope for all her eagerness to wait right now, there in the hall, until the sun goes down. Let her ask me then about her husband and the day of his return. Let me sit close by the fire, for the clothes I'm wearing are pitiful, as you yourself well know, since I came to you, first of all, for help."
1:33:45 Liv Albert? Odysseus finished. Once he'd listened to these words, the swineherd went away. As he crossed the threshold, Penelope said: "He's not with you, Eumaeus. Why is the beggar acting this way? Is he somehow too afraid to come here, or does he feel ashamed by something else? He's a poor beggar if he feels disgraced." Then swineherd Eumaeus, you answered her and said: "What he said makes sense. What any man would think if he was planning to avoid the insolence of those presumptuous men. He says you should wait for him till sunset. And, my queen, it would be appropriate for you to talk in person to this man, so you yourself will hear what he may say." Wise Penelope then answered him and said: "The stranger is not stupid, for he thinks about the dangers that may well threaten.
1:34:28 Liv Albert? I don't believe that any mortal man are as high-handed as these suitors are, the way they plan their wicked foolishness." Penelope spoke. Once he told her everything, the loyal swineherd, mixed with crowds of suitors, moving up close to Telemachus so others could not hear, he spoke to him. His swift words had wings. Friends, I'm going to leave and guard the swine and other things, your livelihood and mine. You take charge of what's going on in here. First and foremost, protect yourself. Your heart must stay alert so you don't suffer harm. Many Achaeans are hatching evil plans. May Zeus kill them all before they harm us. Prudent Telemachus then answered him and said, "It will happen, old friend.
1:35:11 Liv Albert? Now, you should eat before you leave. Come here in the morning and bring fine animals for sacrifice. Everything in here will be my concern, mine, and the immortal's." Telemachus spoke. The swineherd sat down on the polished chair again. Once he had filled his heart with food and drink, he left, returning to his pigs, through the hall and courtyard, where the throngs of suitors were enjoying themselves with dance and song, for evening had already come.
1:35:53 Liv Albert? Oh nerds, that one lasted longer than expected. So this outro is quick because my voice is going. I just have to say, ugh, the dog bit, the Argus bit is like so iconic and Christopher Nolan ruined it for me. It'll come back, it'll come back. But right now, all I have to say about that utterly like
1:36:13 Liv Albert? heartbreaking storyline, that is heartbreaking as it is and like,
1:36:18 Liv Albert? the whole point of it is that only Odysseus loved this dog. Like it's meant to really exemplify the lack of Odysseus, right?
1:36:27 Liv Albert? Anyway, Christopher Nolan gave the dog like this whole storyline where it's like living with Eumaeus and cared for and all of these things. The long, I mean, and there was, there's ultimately not, nothing wrong with giving Argus that storyline.
1:36:41 Liv Albert? Except that
1:36:44 Liv Albert? Christopher Nolan invented more of a storyline for the dog than he gave existing storyline to the women. Like, does that make sense? Like, the women have existing storyline and, and Christopher Nolan removed it all and butchered it. And instead, he, he extended, he made, he invented an entire story for this dog. And I love a dog. I'm a dog girl. I love animals.
1:37:18 Liv Albert? But the idea that this man was just like, "We don't need the women. I'd rather learn more about this dog," is, it just so exemplifies modern culture and makes me want to scream. Uh, and that's how I'll end this one.
1:37:37 Liv Albert? Oh, we're coming back with more. We're getting to the real good stuff and
1:37:44 Liv Albert? hopefully I'll run out of reasons to talk about Christopher Nolan's Odyssey very, very soon. For my sake and yours. Let's talk about Miss Baby is written and produced by me, Liv. Albert Michaela Pango, which is the Hermes to my lamb, is my incredible producer. Michaela has been traveling for a while now, but she is coming back and she is bringing with her some history episodes. We will also be back with Hermes Historia episodes for the Patreon tiers that are, that get that, you know, whatever, my brain. We'll be back with more of that soon. Speaking of Patreon, if you would like ad-free access and so much more, check out the tiers we have available. Um, it helps, it helps, it helps. Uh, and I
1:38:27 Liv Albert? just, uh, that's probably all from my brain today. Thank you all so fucking much. I really do love this shit. Even when Christopher Nolan butchers the fuck out of it, at least I am here to pick up the pieces and shove them down our throats.
1:38:42 Liv Albert? I don't know.
1:38:55 Speaker 03 Ever notice how every new AI tool asks you to explain your business to it all over again? Google Workspace with Gemini skips that. You get Google's AI built right into the premium versions of Gmail, Docs, Sheets, and more. No new tools, no extra logins, just one subscription that gives you personalized AI right inside your actual workflow. Make work less work. Try Google Workspace with Gemini at
1:39:20 Speaker 01 G O O dot G L E slash workspace with Gemini. Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show we recommend.
1:39:30 Speaker 04 Hi, I'm Molly Graham, host of Work Life, a podcast from TED. The most important lessons about work usually aren't the ones anyone teaches you. They come from experience, from uncertainty, from figuring things out as you go. On this show, my expert guests and I explore how careers really unfold. Through change, through doubt, through the decisions that shape who we become over time. Because those moments aren't the exception, they are the work. Listen to Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.
1:40:03 Speaker 01 Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
1:40:54 Speaker 03 Enemy of My Dreams by Jenny Williamson is a historical romance novel set in the time of the late Roman Empire, where Alaric, a brutal Gothic warlord, and Julia, a Roman princess, with a love of good wine, team up to take down Rome. The much awaited sequel, Game
1:41:13 Speaker 02 Game of Thieves comes out December 8th. In this sequel, Julia and Alaric must overcome centuries of conflict to work together, or the turbulent riptides of rebellion and the demons of their past will tear them apart.
1:41:25 Speaker 03 And now, for a limited time, when you preorder Game of Thieves through Burning Pages Bookstore, you'll get a signed book plate and a free art print of one of Jenny's favorite spicy scenes from across the series.
1:41:38 Speaker 02 Get this amazing artwork only from Burning Pages at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves. Don't wait. Order your copy from Burning Pages today at burningpagesnc.com/game-of-thieves.
Previous ANNIVERSARY SPECIAL: The Most Infamous Woman of Greek Myth, A History of Helen Next The Hero We Don't Deserve, Memnon and Other Answers to Your Questions Page updated October 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated