20VC: Who Will Own The Data? Is There An Incumbency Advantage in AI? When Will Artificial Super Intelligence Come To The Forefront with Rudina Seseri, Founder and Managing Director @ Glasswing Ventures

Rudina Seseri is Founder and Managing Partner of Glasswing Ventures, Boston's own AI focussed fund. Prior to Glasswing, Rudina was a Partner at Fairhaven Capital, sering as lead investor and Director on the Boards of Celtra, CrowdTwist, Jibo, SocialFlow and Statisfy. Before Fairhaven, she was a Senior Manager in the Corporate Development Group at Microsoft where she was responsible for sourcing, structuring, and negotiating Microsoft's acquisitions and strategic investments. Rudina has served as Entrepreneur-In-Residence for Harvard Business School for 4 consecutive years and is an advisor for L’Oréal USA Women in Digital. In Today’s Episode You Will Learn: 1.) How Rudina made her way from Microsoft into VC with Fairhaven and then Glasswing? 2.) Why is now the time for an AI fund? What technological advances have happened to allow narrow artificial intelligence to come to the foreground in such a prominent way? 3.) Does the potential incumbency advantage in AI concern Rudina? How can founders look to mitigate this and gain access to substantial data sets? 4.) In terms of disruption cycles, where does Rudina believe we are in current cycles? How does this affect adoption cycles of technology? Why will this be the fastest ever? 5.) Predictions: How long till artificial super intelligence comes to the forefront? How long until mass adoption of driverless cars? Will this be a winner take all market? Items Mentioned In Today’s Episode: Rudina’s Fave Blog: Paris 1919 Rudina’s Fave Book: Wait But Why As always you can follow The Twenty Minute VC, Harry and Rudina on Twitter here! Likewise, you can follow Harry on Snapchat here for mojito madness and all things 20VC. The Twenty Minute VC is proudly sponsored by Luma, Luma is the world’s first ever Surround WiFi system that brings speed, security and control to the home network. And Unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three sleek devices to place in different rooms in your home. Luma then creates a mesh network that work together to create an outrageously-fast, ultra-secure Surround WiFi network. Lastly, Luma’s app lets you easily see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. To buy your Luma, simply dead to getluma.com or amazon.com. So many problems start with your head: stress, depression, anxiety, fear of the future. What if there was some kind of exercise you could do, that would help you get your head in shape. That’s where the Headspace app comes in. Headspace is meditation made simple. The Headspace app provides guided meditations you can use whenever you want, wherever you want, on your phone, computer or tablet. They have sessions focused on everything from dealing with stress and depression, to helping you eat more mindfully. So download the Headspace app and start your journey towards a happier, healthier life. Learn more at headspace.com/20vc. That’s headspace.com/20vc.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Harry Stebbings?

  You are listening to the 20 Minute VC with your host Harry Stebbings and you can find me on Snapchat at H Stebbings for mojito making madness, startup stories and of course plenty of VC chat. However, to today's show, and we have all witnessed a rise in excitement surrounding AI in the past couple of years. Well, today's guest is so bullish on the future of AI, she has a fund devoted purely to AI. And I'm delighted to welcome Rudina Seseri, founder and managing partner of Glasswing Ventures, a Boston AI focused fund. And prior to Glasswing, Rudina was a partner at Fairhaven Capital, serving as a lead investor and director on the boards of Crowd, Twist, Jibo, Socialflow and Statify. And before Fairhaven, she was a senior manager in the Corporate Development Group at Microsoft,

• 0:41Harry Stebbings?

  where she was responsible for sourcing and structuring and negotiating Microsoft's acquisitions and strategic investments. Rudina has also served as entrepreneur in residence for the Harvard Business School for four consecutive years, and is an advisor for L'Oreal USA Women in Digital. And a huge thanks to Joe Shorger at Isama Capital for the intro to Rudina today. However, before we dive into the show, let's be honest, most problems start in the mind. Fear, anger, stress, anxiety, sleeplessness, they begin in your head, but they can wreck your life and meditation can really help. Headspace is meditation made simple. There's a mountain of science showing the positive effects of meditation and mindfulness. And the Headspace app provides guided meditations you can use whenever you want, wherever you want, on your phone, computer or tablet.

• 1:23Harry Stebbings?

  And they have sessions focused on everything from dealing with stress and anxiety to eating healthier, sleeping better and even being more creative. It's 1% of your day that can change the other 99. So download the Headspace app and train your mind for a happier, healthier life. Learn more at headspace.com/20vc, that's headspace.com/20vc. I'm also so proud to be sponsored today by a product that's genuinely changed the way I live and work, and that is Luma. Luma is the world's first ever surround wifi system that brings speed, security and control to your home network. It really is wifi you'll love. And unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three sleek devices to place in different rooms around your home.

• 2:02Harry Stebbings?

  The app then guides you through a simple setup and in just minutes, Luma creates a mesh network that work together to create an outrageously fast, ultra Surround Wi-Fi network. Lastly, Luma's app lets you easily see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. And Luma is perfect for anyone who wants to be able to stream in the family room, game in the playroom, conduct video conferencing in the office, and much more, all at the same time, without the usual fight of bandwidth. So if you want to join me in the joy of experiencing amazing home Wi-Fi, simply head over to getluma.com, amazon.com, homedepot.com, bestbuy.com, or you can buy it in Best Buy stores in the US. They really are absolutely incredible. However, enough from me, so now it's time to hand over to Rudina Sessary at Glasswing Ventures.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  You have now arrived at your destination.

• 2:54Harry Stebbings?

  Rudina, such a pleasure to have you on the show today. A huge thanks to Gerald Ismer for the intro, but thank you so much for joining me today, Rudina.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Thank you, Iri, and thank you for having me.

• 3:03Harry Stebbings?

  Now, I'd love to get the ball rolling today by hearing a little bit about you and how you made your way into venture first.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Gosh, I've been in venture now for about a decade, um, working on early-stage investments and companies, particularly Series A and seed, both on the enterprise as well as consumer platform side. Prior to that, I was at Microsoft, um, working on investments and acquisitions. And, um, it was really sort of my connection in between Microsoft and entering venture during my business school years, where I met my now partner at Glasswing, and he was already a VC and sort of got me all excited about the transformational power that capital can have when partnered with the right leaders and the right founders. That was the genesis of it all.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  And, you know, after being at Microsoft for a couple of years, my partner recruited me back into venture and the rest is history.

• 3:58Harry Stebbings?

  I'd love to hear, you said about your time at Microsoft there. What were some big takeaways from working in such a, such a behemoth of an organisation?

• 4:05Speaker 02

  Well, behemoths and dinosaurs die slowly, so the ability for a large company to disrupt oneself is quite difficult. If they succeed in doing it, it's usually the exception. And I'm often hard pressed to find such exceptions, perhaps Apple, because it nearly died and then jobs came back and kind of reinvented it and resuscitated it. But so I think driving change within a large tech company is quite difficult because you have to essentially be able to cannibalize your own current revenue streams with the public market pressures. I also think that from my perspective, when you're making strategic investments, which have a financial return component,

• 4:49Speaker 02

  but also other priorities, it's a little bit hard to measure results. And on the acquisition side, it's really, you can create as much value as destroy value with an acquisition, depending on how a target gets integrated.

• 5:03Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, no, that's a fantastic takeaways to have and and kind of especially going into now your current role with Glasswing. And I do want to start with the investment strategy there and it's focused on AI. And as you told me before, more specifically narrow AI. So 10 years ago, this wouldn't really have happened. So why is AI firm focusable theme now today? What's your take on this?

• 5:25Speaker 02

  To your very last part of your comment and question, AI and machine learning and even deep learning technologies have existed for decades, to be perfectly honest. What has transformed or what has changed the market timing for adoption is this emergence of what we at Glasswing call pervasive connectivity and the inputs and outputs to it. So by pervasive connectivity, we're really referring to the notion that consumers and enterprises now have many, many, many points of connection. We don't see convergence to one device. We see the existence of many devices around us, wherever we are in the home, in the car,

• 6:06Speaker 02

  in our offices, educational institutions, wherever the case may be, where we're constantly connected and constantly on through different devices and means. That pervasive connectivity has enabled the emergence of a new wave of multitudes and terabytes of data that now can be leveraged to train models on the AI side, can be leveraged to. Essentially bring sort of the AI promise with machine learning, but also the other facets from speech recognition to face recognition to social cognition, et cetera, to reality. Couple that with the fact that mobility as a revolution, if you will, has happened and

• 6:48Speaker 02

  storage costs with cloud computing have come down dramatically make for the right market timing for narrow or applied AI to emerge.

• 6:58Harry Stebbings?

  I do have to ask, you mentioned one really interesting element for me there and it was data sets and kind of the incredible amounts of data that's produced from all the devices. Do you think in terms of ownership, these will be in the form of public data sets in the future or will they be privately owned by the companies that produce the devices?

• 7:15Speaker 02

  So that's a, that's a very fair, fair question. I think it will be a hybrid. I think the, there is a bubbling, if you will, consumer sort of reaction to consumer data being used by large entities and tech companies and the likes to these entities' advantage and not for the consumer advantage. And you see all sorts of movements on the ad tech side with do not track and whatnot. I think reality will be that data will remain proprietary to a certain extent. You know, you have entire ecosystems around Google and Uber and Facebook where they're effectively AI companies leveraging the large data sets, but you'll also see this push from consumers to have more control. So probably a hybrid where, and even the

• 7:59Speaker 02

  recent regulations that emerged and just there was a vote, I believe earlier this week around consumers having more power of, over their own data. So I think we might see a world where consumers have to buy in and have to approve and get some sort of benefit, whatever the case may be. That's somewhat contradicting with what we have seen with the millennials and the younger generations around this notion of privacy and data, them being a little bit less concerned. So I think you have a push and pull, but overall we will see a little bit more of a move, I think, in favor of consumers.

• 8:33Harry Stebbings?

  The next logical question for me then is for you as an investor, do you think these data sets that are privately owned? Uh really a kind of motive defensibility for these companies? Or do you think actually, you know, it's not a significant form of IP that would prevent you from investing?

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Listen, no single factor alone makes for a successful investment. Um I think, forget data, forget technology, you in my view, you always start with people. They can make or break you. There is no artificial intelligence that replaces human execution. So at the end of the day, uh sort of you always start with who are my founders? Who's my management team and how, you know, how can they translate vision to execution? Having said that, the more barriers to entry one has, the um the higher the chances of success. So having the right AI technologies and apply, you know, technologies and products is important. Having the right data sets to train these models and to create even more, um not just training,

• 9:34Speaker 02

  but also to increase the data sets is important. How you get those data sets, you know, whether they're closed or open, it's also important. On the one hand, you might want to have proprietary data. But on the other hand, by doing right with consumers, you're creating a certain brand and a certain trust between consumers and your product and your company. And that can be a barrier to entry and a brand differentiator in and of its own.

• 9:56Harry Stebbings?

  You said about access there to the data itself. Do you think then for startups, there is a really significant data incumbency advantage to the likes of, say, your previous employer, Microsoft or Google or Facebook? Do you think this is a a large and worrying data incumbency?

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Um I do think that there are big data incumbencies and I do think that they require, if you will, they're a challenge to overcome. I do think that the barriers to overcome them are not so high. Um as previously mentioned, the incumbents oftentimes get in their own way. So, uh but also I think the agility of a startup and um with execution and access to other sources of data. Right now, as we speak, companies that are actually being created and founded to enable this AI movement, to enable the, to provide data sets, to enable the training of algorithms for whatever purposes, whether it's, you know, to solve security problems or. Um. Marketing tech problems, sales tech, whatever the end application may be.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  And by the way, um, just sort of on the, on this whole notion of data sets. This is not a new problem. I mean, think about what has happened with ad, ad exchanges and ad networks and the aggregation of data. We've seen data marketplaces in the past.

• 11:11Harry Stebbings?

  Taking a slightly mess of you and looking at just the kind of disruption cycles themselves now. Where would you say we are in these cycles and curves?

• 11:19Speaker 02

  In our view, again, and um, I, we fundamentally believe that we were entering the third disruption cycle. So, and we think of the first as it being the web in the, you know, nineteen eighty nine, Sir Timothy Berners-Lee. Out of your home country, um, invents the web. So we see the disruption that emerges out of the digital wave. Then um, we see the social mobile wave. And that disruption or that wave, in our view, the revolution is complete. There will be, there is evolutionary or incremental, um, you know, improvements in nature. And we'll see new products, but from a transformational point of view, I think that um, wave is complete.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  And now with this notion of pervasive connectivity, where you have the right data and the right, um, you know, technological drivers and inputs. Uh, we think that AI, the AI wave has already in fact begun. We're probably three, four years into it. And we expect that as in prior waves, the adoption cycle for AI powered products and platforms will be shorter. Um, from the web to the social mobile, we saw adoption half from fourteen years to seven years. And we expect, um, you know, a similar rate, if you will, in, in the speed of adoption with the AI wave.

• 12:36Harry Stebbings?

  Why, why is that increased speed of adoption? Is it the storage? Is it the data? What makes it so much shorter?

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Yes, and yes, and yes. I, I think it's that, I think we, it's the um, millennials and the younger um, generations that um, how tech savvy they are and how quickly that adoption is taking place. And they're then pushing to sort of the older generations. I mean. If you think about it, you're young, but you, I don't think remember a world without web and without digital presence and today's teenagers don't know a world without mobile and it's part of second their nature. So they're very much have driven the mobile social wave. And I have a three-year-old and I think she's going to be an AI native with not just sort

• 13:23Speaker 02

  of the interactions and a very redefined relationship with technology, but also the whole world of social robotics and the increased role that robotics will have in our lives, which at the core really has applied AI and even one day possibly general AI twenty, thirty years from now.

• 13:41Harry Stebbings?

  I'm thrilled to hear you say that about kind of AI native and kind of the exciting and positive connotations that that carries, I think, for both me and you. But there's a lot of discussion around dark AI, so we're going to focus on the positives of AI today. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it will be transformative in such a positive way going forward.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  I mean, it's, take it to the basics. What you're doing is instead of the traditional, if you will, mode of developing software and products around coding, optimizing, getting the product to be good enough and then deploying it out there with machine learning and as, you know, as the models get better and better with deep learning. And again, there are all sorts of, within those two statements, there are all sorts of branches and varieties. In that continuum, we, you essentially are developing software that far outperforms legacy solutions that don't have AI in them because it's constantly learning. At some point, you know, as you feed more and more and more data, it will reach a peak of learning and then it becomes a

• 14:45Speaker 02

  business decision rather than fundamentally a tech constraint around, do you want to iterate one more time? Is it worth it from an ROI perspective or not? The applications for that is effectively disrupting every facet of the enterprise from IT to, you know, the departments, from sales technologies, marketing tech, cybersecurity, every single facet all of a sudden is ripe for disruption. Because of because of AI powered technologies. And then on the consumer side, you have entirely new experiences from the whole world of, as I mentioned, social robotics. And what that will mean to our daily lives to overlaying AI capabilities with emerging, you know,

• 15:28Speaker 02

  augmented reality and virtual reality type technologies to deliver entirely new experiences for consumers.

• 15:35Harry Stebbings?

  I I do always wonder with kind of positive and transformative AI applications. What are you thinking in terms of business models? Because it's quite an undefined area, really. It's not like licensed or SaaS where we've got a very predictive model. What is your take on kind of the AI business model of the future?

• 15:52Speaker 02

  I think AI is much more about and AI enabled products are much more about disruption, if you will, at the most fundamental level of the technology. I'm sure there are business model ramifications, but to say that you have an AI powered product, you're speaking to the performance, you're speaking to how you're building it, you're speaking to, if you will, jumping a curve, jumping an S curve. In my view, it's to a lesser extent about innovating around the business model, although it doesn't preclude you from doing so. So I could very much see a sales tech, a next generation sales tech company that is AI powered, but it's still a SaaS monetization model. Does that make sense?

• 16:35Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, absolutely. No, it does. It does. In terms of kind of speaking about the future though there, I'd love to be really annoying and make some predictions. Obviously, all in jest, there's no recall on these later. At ten years' time, we will not come back. But let's make some predictions then. And let's start with one that always intrigues me, and that's artificial superintelligence. So how long do you think until artificial superintelligence comes to the forefront?

• 17:00Speaker 02

  Why don't you read Rikers Wiles' blog? Uh, look, you're talking about sort of general AI and superintelligence. We'll see if it pans out. I think for, um, look, as a VC, I'm really good at spotting trends. I'm really bad at predicting. I think there are entire, you know, there's a field of futures who should do that. But I do think we're twenty, thirty years away from that. And when we get there, I hope we will put the right parameters in place to make the right decisions, um, because there are a lot of ramifications, some of which are not all positive.

• 17:30Harry Stebbings?

  What do you think of the right parameters?

• 17:32Speaker 02

  Putting the right sort of standards, ethics, um, the right balance of things. And people oftentimes ask about sort of more imminent in a certain way, negative implications around AI, like loss of jobs with robotics and whatnot. And my comeback and my response to that is, where are the horse carriage drivers out on the streets? I don't see them. There will, when there is, um, disruption, there is always, um, displacement of, uh, employment and labor, and that's a reality. And in the short term, one may outweigh for the negative the other. I don't necessarily think that's the case, but it could be the case. In that instance, we have to actually focus on creating opportunities that drive further

• 18:17Speaker 02

  creativity, that take advantage of us as humans and, and the many skills we have. And leverage AI as a tool and leverage robotics as an extension, rather than focus on legacy roles and employment, you know, is something that we need to hold on to.

• 18:34Harry Stebbings?

  Talking about, you said there about, uh, horse-drawn drivers. Uh, how long till driverless cars will become mainstream mass market with, uh, uh, likes of Tesla's technology?

• 18:44Speaker 02

  I think, I think in the next five to ten years, we'll probably see quite a bit more, um, penetration of, um, self-driving cars. And again, I hope for, since becoming apparent, apparently the whole world revolves around my child, who knew? But I think, I suspect that by the time she's an adult, um, having a driver's license might be a luxury, um, item rather than an everyday necessity.

• 19:08Harry Stebbings?

  Do you think it will be a very fragmented market? Would you think it will be very much a winner takes all in the form of Tesla, Google, Uber?

• 19:15Speaker 02

  By the very nature that you mentioned, um, three companies could be winner take most. Look, I think it comes back to what will be the barriers to entry, how will the legacy players be disrupted? Again, I am a believer that it's startups or new entrants that create new categories rather than um the legacy auto, you know, manufacturers that win. Um, I suspect that it will be winners take most, not a winner take all.

• 19:44Harry Stebbings?

  But I do wanna move more specifically to you and kind of your investments now and the investment strategy. Being so focused on AI and I'd love to hear what you think are the benefits of having such a defined and honed investment strategy to AI.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  It's a case of having deep knowledge and experience and expertise around the core AI technologies such that you are focused in that regard. But then the end market applications are broad, so you're targeting trillion dollar markets. So it's a focused strategy, but not a narrow one, if you will. Again, I'm looking at categories such as the enterprise and where, what is ripe for disruption by leveraging AI technologies. Again, though, not forgetting the core fundamentals of people, people and then more people and execution, but um, around the founders, but what can we disrupt around the enterprise and what's prime time?

• 20:40Speaker 02

  What are categories are prime time targets for doing so? Then I'm looking at what new entirely category making type investments can one make? Um, I have a portfolio company in the interest of full disclosure called Jibo in the social robotics space that um I said it a while ago. And I think that in that whole area and category of consumer robotics um, it's about to take off and I clearly believe that Jibo will be the leader, otherwise I wouldn't have invested. But it's a category that's AI is enabling entire, an entirely new space, just like mobility enabled the entire mobile.

• 21:20Speaker 02

  And app ecosystem. So we're seeing both disruption of existing big end markets and the creation of entirely new categories. And those collectively are hundreds of billions and if not trillion type markets. And then you have the whole space of cybersecurity and the ability to leverage these big data sets and models to not just be reactive in nature to security vulnerabilities and hacks, whether they're at the network, data or identity level, but to actually be able to predict and perhaps one day prescribe to, you know, taking to the even a higher level to be able to start to differentiate between correlation versus causation, something we've never done in the past. So it's quite exciting.

• 22:05Harry Stebbings?

  Do you think that's the fundamental difference in AI then and and other predecessor technologies? The ability to potentially detect causation instead of resulting activities?

• 22:16Speaker 02

  No, I think that's only a facet. I think the fundamental difference is about having a software that it's effectively to have systems that continuously self-improve. That that is transformational.

• 22:28Harry Stebbings?

  I'd love to dive into a quick fire round with you now, Rudina. So I say a short statement and then you give me your immediate thoughts. How does that sound?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Oh dear, yes.

• 22:37Harry Stebbings?

  Okay, about sixty seconds per one. Let's start with your favorite book and why?

• 22:42Speaker 02

  Paris nineteen nineteen. It's basically the history of what happened at the Paris conference after World War One. And it essentially shaped the rest of the twentieth century and even some of the new world order in the twenty first century. Hands down, my favorite book.

• 23:00Harry Stebbings?

  Biggest mentor to you and how it came about?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  So it's interesting. Mentors have changed over time for me. They've always been people that have been adjacent in my industry, but not quite in the industry. So they have been guiding me without being too much into weeds and I've always been grateful for that. But they've changed over time as my career has advanced and altered over time. So I would say the steady figure in my life has really been my mother and. Both from a mentoring and um role model point of view, um she ran a thirty six hundred person enterprise. And I've seen the what it takes to lead and.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  But also she raised myself and my sister to be pretty strong and independent women and sort of. I hope to have the same chance to instill those values in my family.

• 23:52Harry Stebbings?

  What's your favorite blog or newsletter? What are the must reads for you when they come in?

• 23:56Speaker 02

  Team Urban's Wait by Y. I love it, love it. Can't wait for it.

• 24:00Harry Stebbings?

  I love that. They did. That's actually how I learned the foundations of my A I knowledge. Uh. They did a brilliant deep dive on A I and A N I and A G and A S I. Uh. And that was how I started my interest. So, yes, I completely agree with you on that.

• 24:14Speaker 02

  Yes, they did a very good sort of the fun one on one fundamentals of A I. Yep.

• 24:19Harry Stebbings?

  And then let's do the biggest challenge in setting up Glasswing.

• 24:22Speaker 02

  A startup, my god. I mean, you know, all all three of us at Glasswing, myself, Rick and Sarah, my other two partners. Have operational experience um at varying degrees. Sarah built companies um as an entrepreneur and. Has done that for decades and Rick as well. So. Uh. The operational experience has been there for years, but I have a whole new level of appreciation for what it takes. To set up a startup, to be the janitor and the C E O and everything in between. So um always have been mindful of that with founders of companies and startups. Now to a much higher sort of heightened level because of that very reason. It when, you know, it takes quite a bit of commitment and.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  Turning the twenty four hours in a day to eighty hours in a day and still needing some more time.

• 25:11Harry Stebbings?

  It's a terrible feeling when you're working yourself to the bone and you just don't have enough time still.

• 25:16Speaker 02

  But actually, it's also extremely exciting and sort of that whole drive and that whole passion for building something and hopefully something big. So I have to tell you, it's a lot of hard work, but probably I've never been happier. So what can I say?

• 25:30Harry Stebbings?

  Yeah, absolutely. Well, well then let's finish on the next five years for you and for Glasswing. What's the vision ahead?

• 25:36Speaker 02

  So um the vision ahead is to transform Glasswing into a market. The market leading firm, I don't think I mentioned this, but Glasswing's, you know, meaning is actually a butterfly, it's a specific species of a butterfly. And it's a transparent butterfly. So this is the idea of being transparent with our founders and teams, but also with our LPs all along the value chain. It is a beautiful sort of up and to the right, so the notion of helping build companies with a transformative, leveraging the transformative power of technology. In the case of a butterfly, you go from a, you know, little caterpillar to a cocoon to a butterfly.

• 26:20Speaker 02

  And lastly, this particular species happens to be a marvel in mechanical engineering and durability. So the notion of building a big firm. So in the next five years, to come back to your question, if we have achieved those goals of being transparent, of being transformative and in the companies that we invest in and the help that we provide, as well as becoming a top tier firm, I think, I think we'll be in a good spot.

• 26:45Harry Stebbings?

  Well, Rudina, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. I look very forward to having you on in five years' time and we can tick all those off the list, but thank you so much for joining me today.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Thanks for having me, Harry.

• 26:56Harry Stebbings?

  So fantastic to have Rudina on the show today and a big hand to Joe Shaw, we're at Isom Capital for the intro today. And if you loved the show with Rudina today and do not want to leave the world of the 20 Minute VC, then you can add me on Snapchat at H Stebbings to see behind the scenes footage from the studio, VC offices and startup pitches. Alternative, I would love it if you were to sign up for the newsletter on 20minutvc.com. That way you never have to miss an episode or an update from us. But before we leave you, as you know, fear, anger, stress, anxiety, sleeplessness, they begin in your head, but they can wreck your life and meditation can really help. And Headspace is meditation made simple. There's a mountain of science showing the positive effects of meditation and mindfulness. And the Headspace app provides guided meditations you can use whenever you want, wherever you

• 27:40Harry Stebbings?

  want, on your phone, computer or tablet. And they have sessions focused on everything from dealing with stress and anxiety, to eating healthier, sleeping better and even being more creative. One percent of your day that can change the other ninety-nine. So, download the Headspace app and train your mind for a happier, healthier life. And you can learn more at headspace.com/20vc. That's headspace.com/20vc. Again, a huge thanks to a product that has genuinely changed the way I live and work. Luma is the world's first ever surround Wi-Fi system that brings speed, security and control to your home network. Finally, it's Wi-Fi you'll love. And unlike traditional routers, Luma comes in a pack of two or three really sleek devices to place in different rooms around your home.

• 28:22Harry Stebbings?

  For me, one of the most impressive aspects, though, is the seamless onboarding process as the app guides you through a simple setup. And in just minutes, Luma creates a mesh network around your home that creates an outrageously fast, ultra-secure surround Wi-Fi network. Lastly, Luma's app lets you easily see and control which devices, users and content are on your network. So, Luma is perfect for anyone who wants to be able to stream in the family room, game in the playroom, conduct video conferences in the office and much more, all at the same time, without having the usual fight for bandwidth. And if you want to join me in this Wi-Fi heaven, simply head to getluma.com, amazon.com, home depot.com, bestbuy.com, or you can even head into Best Buy stores in the US. Uh, they really are incredible and a must-have. As always, we so appreciate all your support and I cannot wait to bring you Friday's episode.