Will Packer on building a Billion-Dollar film empire, pivoting to power, navigating Hollywood high stakes, Kevin Hart being evil, lesson from Paul Walker, persistence through rejection from Beyoncé, and turning setbacks into success.s

“Do you want to be right or do you want to win? I want to win.” -Will Packer When Will Packer pulls up to The Pivot Podcast, the conversation goes far beyond Hollywood headlines, combining sports and business to one of the most entertaining yet educational episodes we've had. Will unpacks the real story behind his rise—from grinding it out as a young mind at at HBCU to becoming one of the most powerful producers in the game. He shares how he built a billion-dollar film resume from the ground up, turning bold ideas into box office hits while navigating an industry that rarely hands out opportunities. But this isn’t just about success. Packer gets candid about the missteps, the pressure of managing money and expectations, and the moments where everything could have fallen apart. From producing cultural staples to learning hard lessons about risk, partnerships, and perseverance, his journey is a masterclass in betting on yourself—even when the odds say otherwise. From navigating Hollywood’s gatekeepers to creating opportunities where none existed, his path is paved with resilience, ownership, and vision as we unpack the wins, losses, and the pivots in between—and what it really takes to turn ambition into a lasting legacy. He reflects on hits like Girls Trip, Ride Along, Think Like a Man, and Stomp the Yard to life—films that didn’t just perform well, but became cultural movements. Along the way, he’s collaborated with some of the biggest names in Hollywood, including Kevin Hart, Ice Cube, Queen Latifah, Tiffany Haddish, and the late Paul Walker. On day one of filming Takers, Will had to step in and defuse a tense moment when Paul nearly walked off set—quickly navigating the pressure to keep the production on track. It became a test of leadership, showing how staying composed and solutions-focused can turn a potential setback into a moment of trust and respect. Filled with inside stories, lessons and advice on staying at the top, this episode is about building confidence as a muscle, taking big leaps, and overcoming rejection in order to get doors to finally open, Will is unguarded and uses humor to share some of his most impactful moments to allow us to see a side of him we haven't before, hoping his story inspires and ignites a fire in others. Pivot Family, comment, like, hit the subscribe button, we enjoy hearing and learning from you- the good and the bad, we want to know! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  Every game day, you show up for your team. Now, it's your time.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  We go V.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  We go V. Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Semaglutide injection, 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-833-4-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait? We go V.

• 0:50Speaker 02

  Jazz, jazz, jazz.

• 0:51Speaker 03

  What's happening?

• 0:53Speaker 04

  What up, Florida boy?

• 0:53Ryan Clark?

  I'm Pullman.

• 0:54Speaker 04

  Yeah?

• 0:54Ryan Clark?

  So you good, man? What's up, man?

• 0:57Speaker 04

  What up, dude? My guy?

• 0:58Ryan Clark?

  Hey, man. I'm about to start taking these acting classes. What's happening?

• 1:02Speaker 04

  If you real, you know what I'm saying? Like, you talented. You know what to do in front of the camera.

• 1:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I've been getting my leading man body right right now. You know what I'm saying? And now we gonna continue.

• 1:13Speaker 04

  Okay. All right. Well, here's what I would say. Get your lead man body right, but get your supporting man acting skills first. Okay? All right? Let's get our extra background. See, he got the right mentality. Okay? Everybody wanna jump in, like, I'm the star.

• 1:28Ryan Clark?

  Like, we could put my movie on one of those real low-network streaming joints. You know what I'm saying?

• 1:35Channing Crowder?

  I asked to be a security guard. You wanna be the lead?

• 1:39Ryan Clark?

  I would like to be.

• 1:39Speaker 04

  I feel like there's a very accomplishable goal right there. I feel like we should talk. I never will kill a brother's ambition. So, don't get that wrong. I'm not saying what you can't do. I'm just saying, that can happen fast. That's all I'm saying.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  Man, Will Patrick, man. Welcome to the show, man. We've been trying to do it for a long time.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, we have.

• 1:58Ryan Clark?

  Really excited.

• 1:59Speaker 04

  I appreciate you having me, fellas. Thank you.

• 2:01Ryan Clark?

  Nah, for sure. That's Fred Taylor. That's Channing Crowder. Ryan Clark. Pivot fam. Thank y'all for pivoting with us. I'm gonna get straight to the hard-hitting questions.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 2:09Ryan Clark?

  Why y'all fire Raheem Morris?

• 2:14Speaker 04

  You know what I love about sports? Seriously, I love about sports because it's the great connector, right? No matter who you are, what your perspective is, your political inclinations, demographic. When it's your team, everybody comes together around your team. And I love that. And the other thing I love about it is that sports is the one area where, and it's a complete fallacy, but we all buy into the possibility every year. No matter the sport, this could be our year.

• 2:49Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 2:49Speaker 04

  Right? Everybody does that. And I don't care, you name a team, you name a league around the world. I don't care what they finished last year. When it's a new year, it's a new day. It's full of potential and new opportunities. So to answer your question, sir, is that it's a new day, a new league, and we are full of potential and opportunities, sir. And I cannot wait for you to see.

• 3:11Channing Crowder?

  That man ain't wrote a script before.

• 3:15Speaker 04

  I can't wait to see what we do with the new version and the new look Atlanta Falcons.

• 3:20Channing Crowder?

  Nah, I love it. The sports, though, what you do is, like you say, every team thinks they win a Super Bowl every year. Every team thinks they win a championship every year.

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:29Channing Crowder?

  Every team thinks that.

• 3:30Speaker 04

  Isn't that delusion beautiful, my guy?

• 3:32Channing Crowder?

  It's so.

• 3:33Speaker 04

  It just.

• 3:34Channing Crowder?

  I was in locker rooms where we ain't got none better talent.

• 3:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:38Channing Crowder?

  Oh, we gonna get him this year. I don't know how, but we gonna get him this year.

• 3:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 3:42Channing Crowder?

  With making films and all, do you really think like this is gonna kill them every time? Or you, how could you get to the end of a project and be like, yeah, this might do 20 mil. This might do 10 mil. Do you think that way when you're making something?

• 3:57Speaker 04

  You do, you do, bro. Because every time, every project, it's not dissimilar from a sports team where, like you said, you was in a locker room, no, you didn't have any talent. I have been on film sets where it's like, ugh, I don't know, okay? Because we, you know, thought this was gonna work, but not actors maybe don't have chemistry or the director is not delivering the way that I thought they were gonna deliver. What's interesting, though, is that we have the opportunity to pivot in a way that athletes don't. I had this conversation with Jameis Winston. Back when he was in Tampa. And he and I were talking about the similarities. And I was giving him props about his ability to freestyle when a play is broken down.

• 4:40Speaker 04

  And he was like, "Yeah, but it's only so much you can do." Right? He was like, "Y'all have the ability. You see a scene not working, you reshoot the whole scene." Which is true. You can go in, you can fire an actor in the middle of a shoot. You know what I mean? So like, if one of my projects is the equivalent of a game, then I have the ability to make in-game changes that professional sports franchises just don't. So, do we have a sense of how it's gonna do? Sure, absolutely. And there are a lot of things, just like in athletics, you can't control. Right? The market, the industry, what people are doing. I'm involved with every aspect of my movies, from concept to fruition. The idea of it, actually producing it, finishing it, which is a post-production,

• 5:24Speaker 04

  and then the release. All of those are very, very important. One of those off and the movie's not gonna work. I have been very blessed to be very successful throughout my career, but it is very much because I am paying attention to every single aspect of what it takes to get it out. So, as a producer, I'm like the GM. That's really me. I'm the GM. And so, the players on the field, those are my actors. You know, my coaches, my director yelling, you know, "Cut and action." And I'm the person that's gotta put everybody in place. And I get judged over the course of my career, over how well I've done. Not so much just project by project, like other people.

• 5:58Fred Taylor?

  Hey Will, I'm gonna do this thing RC does all the time, and cut the room. Because we Florida boys. I don't know what they are.

• 6:04Speaker 04

  All right.

• 6:05Fred Taylor?

  But when you talk about-

• 6:06Speaker 04

  FLA.

• 6:07Fred Taylor?

  FLA. St. Pete, Muck City.

• 6:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:09Fred Taylor?

  Like Chocolate City, Frank Love.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  Hello. Ah, you know about Chocolate City, Frank Love, baby.

• 6:14Fred Taylor?

  Rashawn Ali and my wife, they line sisters. I'm on top of it. You can't bad mouth Atlanta. But I'm a bad mouth this. I just wanna, I want you to sort of put this to sleep. Fam you set, fam you or Howard? Because he's a Howard guy.

• 6:30Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 6:31Fred Taylor?

  Where his wife is.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  Okay, okay, all right. Yeah. I mean, there's no competition. I don't know what the question is, but you gotta-

• 6:36Fred Taylor?

  What's the best HBCU?

• 6:37Speaker 04

  Well, it's Florida University, but he knows that. You can tell. He wants to go home to his wife. He's got a good relationship at home.

• 6:44Fred Taylor?

  That's real.

• 6:45Speaker 04

  He's not about to-

• 6:46Fred Taylor?

  Have you been to Howard Home, come on?

• 6:46Speaker 04

  Sit here and tell the truth. But I'm not gonna even hold you on that. Like, I mean, come on. Let me tell you why fam you, like, literally. Like, it's not even, they just give you facts. Like- Florida A&M University sits in Tallahassee, Florida. Okay, there are three things in Tallahassee, Florida. The capital of Florida, Florida State University, and Florida A&M University. Okay, so as Florida A&M, we always had to hold our own. Because you know, you got capital, big government type officials. Florida State was always a much bigger school, right? We had to get it out the mud. Everybody came to Tallahassee to see what was going on with FAMU. Ask anybody who played at Florida State. They wasn't hanging out over there, they was hanging out.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  All games, bro. I drove two hours for the set.

• 7:31Speaker 04

  He drove from UF to come to the set at Florida. Now, there's nothing against Howard, but it's DC, right? So like, when y'all have a big Howard Homecoming, it's like, yo, you can go party at Howard Homecoming and never even go to Howard. Because there's parties throughout the city, it's DC. So it's like, oh, which way you want to go to? Check the flyers, text where you want to meet the people? You ain't seeing campus the whole time during Howard Homecoming. It starts and ends at FAMU Homecoming. Like, it's the epicenter. We gotta all band together, because it's all we got, bro. Y'all just a little too diluted, that's all I'm saying.

• 8:04Ryan Clark?

  Bro, that was the most alpha answer in history.

• 8:08Speaker 04

  Because it was accurate.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  So, y'all take pride in that tennis court by them little raggedy dorms?

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Hold on, first of all, what we gonna do? What we gonna do is, we gonna bring you up to speed, because Florida A&M has had some serious capital improvements since the last time you was there. I'm telling you, you wouldn't even recognize a campus.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 8:28Speaker 04

  You know it's the Will Packer Amphitheater there.

• 8:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  I've been saying, so you were there. Ryan helped me open. Chris in the Will Packer Amphitheater. You and the whole crew came down, Kev, Hart, like, we had a nice time opening it. Was it raggedy, Ryan?

• 8:43Ryan Clark?

  No, it was awesome. It really was, man.

• 8:44Speaker 04

  I mean, and I don't even just mean my amphitheater, like, the university.

• 8:47Ryan Clark?

  The support is the biggest thing, though. The community, the camaraderie, the commonality. Then like the, how proud... Those students were of their alumnus.

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:59Ryan Clark?

  And you coming back, like you could tell how much

• 9:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:02Ryan Clark?

  that meant to them. And so now it was amazing to be a part of it.

• 9:04Speaker 04

  Black college campus too, just because the camaraderie is different. The ownership is different on a black college campus where you don't, you don't have the preponderance of alumni that have just, you know, done things all over the world. So those of us that have been high profile coming out of an HBCU are celebrated in a different way because it's just, it's special. It is different.

• 9:28Ryan Clark?

  That was awesome to be there. You mentioned the general manager thing. That's a difficult place to be in. I feel like in football, the direct conversations are very common thing. Like Channing and I talk about it all the time. Sometimes in the real world, you have to learn, I call the real world like non athletics. You have to learn how to massage egos and have conversations to where people feel valued and worthy and wanted, but also understand the points you're trying to get across. So when you have to have a conversation like you had with the late Paul Walker on a set of Takers. Right? Where there's a fallout immediately as a movie starts.

• 10:10Ryan Clark?

  But this is a star, right? This is a big part of what a big movie is going to be. When you put that general manager's hat on, what is your mindset walking in to talk to Paul, knowing that you want to make this movie? You want him to be a part of it, but he does have to conform to what you need in a way.

• 10:27Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's such a perfect analogy, Brian. I'm so glad you brought that up. I made this movie, Takers. Paul Walker, May Rest in Power, Idris Elba, T.I., Matt Dillon, Hayden Christensen, great cast, Michael Healy, Chris Brown. And day one of that movie was a disaster. I'll never forget it, right? I'd never forget. It was, it was a chilly day in L.A. It was like six in the morning. We had an early call time. That's not why I remember. I remember because Paul Walker, who was an incredible human. Like anybody who knows Paul will tell you, like just mild mannered, chill. You know what I'm saying? He just was that dude. Don't have no problem with nobody. Paul Walker was on one that day.

• 11:09Speaker 04

  I came to set and he was standing outside the hair and makeup trailer with the head of the studio who had financed the movie and they going at it. And this is not Paul Walker that you know, but the head of the studio was a yeller and a screamer. Hollywood, very type A, aggressive abrasive industry and this head of studio was going, "This is how it's gonna be, I'm trying to tell you." And Paul Walker was giving it as good as he was getting it that day. And the argument was about Paul's look in the movie. Okay. Paul standing outside, he's scruffy, 5 o'clock shadow beard, ripped jeans, you know, t-shirt, dirty t-shirt, but that's Paul. Like, he still look cool, right? Whatever Paul had on, he gonna look all the time. That was Paul.

• 11:52Speaker 04

  Problem was, that was what Paul wanted to be his look in the movie. And we had had this vision of takers as this real slick, smooth heist crew that dressed to the nines. You know, pocket squares and ties and fedoras and that was the vision because we knew we had these good-looking guys. A young, an action movie normally appeals to young males, we felt like, but because we got the Pauls and the Idrises and these cats, we can actually get some women to come to the theater in addition, so let's have them looking good. Paul, somehow that had not been relayed to Brother Walker, okay?

• 12:30Speaker 04

  So, we are outside the hair and makeup trailer and all I hear when I walk up is Paul go, "F you and F this movie. I'm going back to Hawaii." What? What? We shooting, what if we tell Hawaii? What is going on? The director called me right at that time, he's on set, he said, "Will, we bout to shoot the first shot, I need Paul, what do you want me to do?" I said, "Okay." I said, "Shut up the first shot without Paul. Do not make it seem like, like it's a big problem. Here's why." Because the whole thing was about his look and his wardrobe, I had had the same fight with Idris Elba a month before. But Idris and I had hashed it out behind the scenes.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Idris also didn't want to wear the suits and the tie. He was like, "That's gonna mess up my swag. I'm not as comfortable with it, you know what I mean? I wanna be, I wanna wear jeans. I wanna wear like hip stuff." And I was like, "Bro." We went back and forth. He agreed to wear the suits and ties for the look. But I knew if word got back that Paul Walker also didn't want to do it, oh, I was gonna have a full-blown revolt. Like, "You canceled." We was all going to Hawaii. You know what I'm saying? Meaning, not shooting the movie. So, I go to Paul Walker's trailer. I had waited about 10 minutes. I knock on the door. I'm hoping by then, okay, maybe he's calmed down. He not on 100. Knock on the door. Paul wasn't on 100 anymore. He was on 110. Paul answered that door like, "What?" Now, here's where that general manager thing comes in. There is a term I use, and it's a technique,

• 13:58Speaker 04

  and I call it taking the thunder out. And taking the thunder out is when you remove, you rip out somebody's counterargument. When they are hot and ready to go, you diffuse it, right there at that moment. But it requires you to swallow your ego and to be very mature about it. Paul opened that door. I said, "Hey, Paul, first thing I want to do is apologize." Now, this was not my fault. As the producer, I had done everything that I was supposed to do. His reps knew. I didn't know Paul like that at that time. So I made sure that everybody was aware of what the plan was. Somehow, the ball had been dropped, but it wasn't Will Packer's ball. However, I said, "I want to apologize." I said, "Because this is your first day on a Will Packer set, and you are so upset." I said, "This is not how I want to start off." I said, "Listen to me."

• 14:43Speaker 04

  I said, "You have my word. If you work with us on this project, I will make sure that every day going forward is better than today because it's my responsibility. It is on me. You shouldn't be in this situation. It is not on you. If you will work with us to complete the look of this film, I personally will guarantee you that every day will be better than this one." And he took a breath, and he said, "I get it." And he said, "You the good cop."

• 15:10Speaker 04

  He said, "But you a damn good one." And what happened was, I gave him somebody to be mad with that wasn't this head of the studio, who was yelling and cursing and screaming. I took responsibility for something that he felt like wasn't his fault. I realized that it's not about winning the battle, it's about winning the war. And so, we get so caught up so many times focusing on, "How do I win this battle in this individual moment?" That you forget, when we fighting and arguing, because when me and you, Ryan, we got beef, and I say, "Hey, man, we gonna come on, sit down, talk about this, right?" You ready for me. When you come in, you got your counter arguments, I know Will gonna say this, and I'mma say this, and I'm ready, right? If I come in and I say, "You know what, Ryan? I wanna start off by taking responsibility for what I did.

• 15:53Speaker 04

  And I wanna apologize for my part in it, because there are things that I would have done differently. I wanna just let you know right now, today, that I had a big part to do with this, and I want us to move forward and figure out how we gonna be successful."

• 16:06Ryan Clark?

  That's leadership. That's leadership.

• 16:08Speaker 04

  Absolutely, it's leadership. And that's what you have to do in any industry, but certainly in mine. Paul did the movie, swallowed it, looked good. My favorite part about Takers, right? Takers opened number one at the box office. Afterwards, all the ladies loved the look of the guys, and in all the press, all the actors, Idris Elba included, talked about how much they loved the look on the film. Idris Elba will lie to this day and say that he did not fight me on the look for this movie. He knows that he is lying. It is a true story, and he looked good along with the rest of them, but that's what it took. You have to take the thunder out. Sometimes when you ready, come, even if you know you right, you wanna be right, you wanna win.

• 16:53Speaker 04

  That's me. I wanna win. I'm a winner, and I've won in this industry. And a lot of times, I do that by taking the thunder out and allowing other people's egos to run rampant. I gotta be a leader.

• 17:04Ryan Clark?

  I love it.

• 17:04Speaker 04

  I don't have time for that.

• 17:05Channing Crowder?

  And they creating these dudes that laughs. Idris Elba, Damsen, all this hard, they creating these dudes that laugh nowadays. We ain't got a chance as light-skinned brothers no more. I don't know where they coming from.

• 17:19Speaker 04

  I could put a light-skinned dude in a movie, you, me, and Tuskety, man. I did that for you, okay? You, Michael Ealy, Luda, all my family, I, y'all gotta, we give y'all one every decade, every 10 years.

• 17:29Channing Crowder?

  When I was a kid, I had Shamar Moore.

• 17:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, Shamar.

• 17:32Channing Crowder?

  That's all. He played the same love interest, had the same face. Every time with them, with them big braids.

• 17:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 17:40Channing Crowder?

  But as the G, is the most difficult thing, the talent? Because there's so, like you just said, you were saying there's so many different thought processes, so many different, you know, tentacles that you have to deal with. Is it dealing with talent, or is it the other side?

• 17:55Speaker 04

  Meaning the hardest thing to do? Talent is definitely difficult, but, Chan, it's all hard, my guy. You know what I'm saying? Like, be honest with you, because remember, I'm trying to raise money. So my job is, you come in and you give me an amazing idea for a movie, which I get all the time. I never meet anybody that doesn't have a great idea for a movie. Either a great idea for a movie, or, or, or a cute kid. Any of y'all got kids that act, that would be great in a movie? Be honest. You got a kid?

• 18:22Channing Crowder?

  Uh, yeah.

• 18:23Speaker 04

  And are they talented?

• 18:25Channing Crowder?

  In sports, yes.

• 18:26Speaker 04

  Okay, you know what? Now, see, that's honest. Most people know their kid, he got a lane, you just said sports. That's not how they, most people introduce themselves to me, they say, this kid can do everything. Sing, act, dance, and then they put me there in front of the kid, and the kid, come on, do your thing! And the kid is bad, I'm standing there, it's awkward, what do you want me to do with this? This child, this child needs to be in school. Why is he tap dancing for Will Packer?

• 18:52Channing Crowder?

  Will, you gotta pick the one thing they do well, though.

• 18:54Speaker 04

  Stick with it, he said sports.

• 18:56Channing Crowder?

  Man, they got a pretty smile. That baby has a pretty smile.

• 19:01Speaker 04

  So, yes, my job is to go out, I get a great idea, right? And now I have to turn that into, I gotta get the financing, I gotta get the distribution, I gotta hire directors, actors, everything. It's all very, very difficult because it's like being a big project manager. So I have to pull it all together. But what I will say is that, what I always do, I say, you keep the main thing the main thing, whatever fire is burning the brightest, because you can't do everything, and this is just in life. You gotta focus on what's the thing that is causing, calling for my attention the most, causing the most challenges and problems, you prioritize that. That's something I do just in life. Whatever, because I never, you know, have gotten a call, I've been producing movies for three decades, right? I never get the call, and it's like, Will, we just wanted you to know everything's going great.

• 19:46Speaker 04

  Everything's going good on set, the actors are happy, we're on budget, all the locations worked out, just need to let you know, okay, bye. Not one time, never have gotten that. It is always some version of a five alarm fire. Let me tell you what's not working, let me tell you what's not going, that's what I always get. Now, I have multiple projects, multiple things, I can't deal with them all. By definition, you can't put out ten fires at one time. Which one is burning the brightest? It requires you to compartmentalize and focus on that. So sometimes it is the talent. Sometimes, dealing with talent is very, very difficult. They got a really, really hard job, I respect them. Sometimes they make it hard on everybody else because they're just trying to do their job. Sometimes it's the studio, it's the budget, it's the location, it's the crew. Whatever it is, you focus, keep the main thing the main thing.

• 20:30Speaker 04

  And what I do is, I then apply that to my life. And I tell people that all the time. Keep the main thing the main thing, even in your own life, right? You know, you got a challenge at home with the kids. Well, challenge at home with the kids, challenge with your wife, challenge on the job, you can't do everything at once, what's the one? Let's focus, let's compartmentalize. Let's get the one that we can deal with now. Okay, it's the kids, we're gonna get back to the wife, we're gonna go to the job, we're gonna get to all that other stuff, but right now, I gotta deal with the kids. Focus your energy and effort there, that will then allow you to do everything else. Here's the trick, though. Sometimes the fire that's burning brightest is you. And that's what we don't do. That's something that I had to learn.

• 21:12Speaker 04

  Sometimes the thing that needs the most attention is ourselves. And we try to deal with everything and everybody else, and you're the one that needs it.

• 21:20Fred Taylor?

  I like that. Well, you're an engineer at heart, the core of you. Natural fixer, but from an all A student back in St. Pete.

• 21:28Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 21:28Fred Taylor?

  Going to FAMU to study electrical engineering.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  Yes, sir.

• 21:32Fred Taylor?

  But you pivoted into movie, to film. When did that passion, that love and desire for a movie, for that love, when did that come to fruition?

• 21:39Speaker 04

  When I was at FAMU. And it's one of the reasons I tell people all the time, from an HBCU, you can make it anywhere. Because I met my line brother, frat brother, good friend to this day, who wanted to be a movie director. His name's Rob Hardy. Rob wanted to be a movie director, and I helped him make his first movie, which was a little tiny movie called Chocolate City at FAMU. I did not know that filmmaking was my passion or what I was gonna be doing. My plan was to go, I had a scholarship in electrical engineering. I was always somebody that was like, you know, astute in school. I put the work in, my parents wouldn't have it any other way. And I, but my plan, I was passionate about engineering.

• 22:23Speaker 04

  My plan was to then go to business school and start my own business, because I knew I wanted to be in business. And we made a tiny little movie along the way. I helped him to chase his dream. And that movie, Chocolate City, is what really started the launching pad. Because we made that movie, and Hollywood couldn't care less, right? Nobody, like, we thought you make a movie, send it to Hollywood, and you get, you know, a big deal, and, you know, buy it, you know, you're bothering, right? Man, Hollywood was like, if you don't stop sending us this little VHS tape, we done sent it back 10 times. But I'd never forget, I had invited all these big Hollywood executives to the world premiere of our movie, Chocolate City,

• 23:06Speaker 04

  down there at FAMU in the Lee Hall Auditorium, okay? Tallahassee, Florida. Here's the thing about audacity. You have to be audacious, you have to dream big. Because that tells other people how much to respect your dreams.

• 23:18Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 04

  Right? You tell other people the value that they assign to you, and the value they assign to your dreams. So as some broke college kids, we said, hey, we having a world premiere of Chocolate City. You gotta get dressed up to come. Tuxes and ball gowns only. We are, I might have had $73 between all my accounts, you know what I'm saying?

• 23:40Speaker 04

  We forced these kids to go out and rent these tuxes because we said, "This is a world premiere. It's a big deal. It's important." Because we treated it like it was so important, they did that. They treated it like it was important. They went out and rented those tuxes. Now, I invited all of Hollywood. The whole front row. I'll never forget, I'm standing in Lee Hall Auditorium, and the whole front row is empty. And it's empty because I had saved these seats for these Hollywood executives. So I invited all of them. Paramount, Sony, Disney, Universal, you name it. I invited them. Never forget. My mom said, "Well, baby, you inviting these people? You should invite Oprah Winfrey." I said, "Ma, now that I know. Oprah Winfrey is not coming to my premiere in Tallahassee." I don't know Oprah. She said, "You don't know them other people either. Invite Oprah." I invited Oprah Winfrey. I gave her plus one.

• 24:24Speaker 04

  She could have brought stamina or gale. Didn't matter. I'm standing there, front row is completely empty, but every other seat in that auditorium was packed because those kids wanted to see themselves. And that was the moment when I realized I'm not making my movies for the front row. And so many times, we chasing validation from people because they got a title, because they got money, because they got resources. That's the front row people. You chasing them when there's a whole slew of people that will support you, that are invested in what you're doing, that do believe in what you're doing. You're skipping over them because you feel like, "I need to get to the important people." No, don't do that. I had to learn that. That is what I had to learn. And I learned that right there at Florida A&M University, about as far from Hollywood as you can get.

• 25:08Speaker 04

  No film school, no major backing, none of that. But we made our little movie. We made it important. And those kids on that campus, it was a big deal to them. That was the launching pad that we needed to then get our career started. That's amazing.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Someaglutide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit wegovie.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 25:52Ryan Clark?

  That seems like a difficult balance, though, right? Because, you know, you talked about having to raise money for movies and even if you're making it for the rest of the people that support you, a lot of times it's the front row that funds you. Right? So you do have to reach them. How do you balance the decision when you're creating your work and when you're working with your people to deliver a lot of these stories that are authentically us?

• 26:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 26:21Ryan Clark?

  Right? And we are the audience. How do you make sure some of those executives and some of those companies want to partner with you?

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:30Ryan Clark?

  To make what is it, at least 10 number ones in the box office, over a billion dollars? You've done it over and over again. What's that secret sauce?

• 26:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, you know what it is, Ryan? I realized that the only reason Hollywood ever started caring about Will Packer, started returning my calls, started validating me, was because I went out and had success without them. I tell people all the time, you want to get Hollywood's attention, make money without it. And that applies in Hollywood, but also in other industries and in life, because if you can show that you've got people that see your value and enough of those people will support you, whether you have major distribution or major financing or not, the finance is going to come.

• 27:22Speaker 04

  The distribution is gonna come. That's literally what happened with me. I wasn't able to get those front row people, the folks that, that, you know, I partner with now to fund my projects. None of them were thinking about me. But I showed that I had the ability to get to an audience. And especially now, when you have the ability to create content on your phone, if you can scale that audience, if you can show that you can get a lot of people, then you're gonna get somebody going, "Let me help you make even more money." Because they wanna make money off of you. But that also applies, you know, it doesn't have to be entertainment or content creation. Oftentimes, again, don't worry about that front row. Go to the people that are gonna support you. Show success. Be able to show, because at the end of the day, it's a bottom line business. Any business that we're talking about is the bottom line.

• 28:07Speaker 04

  Go straight to that bottom line. Do you have to have a certain level of investment? Sure, it would help you to maybe make a bigger project business plan, whatever it is you're going after. But if you can show that you can do it without that, it will come. Focus on that, right? Don't spend all your time banging your head and knocking on doors that aren't designed to open for you. You talked about the audience that I go after. One of the things I love, I get asked about like, being one of a few black producers in Hollywood at the level that I'm at. And oftentimes, when I'm in rooms, where you're going in front of a green light committee, the people that are actually going to decide whether or not they're making a movie or not,

• 28:49Speaker 04

  I'm the only person that looks like me in that room. But that's an advantage. Because I have a perspective that nobody else in that room has, and they can't debate that with me, right? I can't debate with them certain aspects of their job when it comes to a particular algorithm of financing. I may understand it, but I can't debate them because that's what they do. You can't debate me when it comes to my audience. Because that's what I represent. I walk in that room with a very, you know, like Liam Neeson said, a particular set of skills. I walk in that room- I have a particular skill set. With a very particular set of skills. Yeah. Right? So that's why I say to people, "What's your particular set of skills that nobody can argue with you about?" Right? There's that aspect for each of you that it's like,

• 29:32Speaker 04

  "All right, we can talk tragic about fam, you all day, Kabbasberg's out, but it's something..."

• 29:38Speaker 04

  That I cannot debate because it's like, okay, you got that. Because you understand it and that's what you know. I walk into Hollywood rooms just like that. Let me tell you about what this particular audience is looking for and what they will respond to. I know it because I've lived it, because I come from it. And I'm able to articulate that in a way that they understand and they cannot debate me on that aspect of it. I still got a lineup. How much am I paying for it? How much am I asking? What is that? What's the value of that audience worth? Is it gonna be theatrical streaming? I got all these things I still have to figure out. But ultimately, it's me leaning into what's unique about me. My parents, when I was in elementary school gifted class, I came home, I said, this is a racist class. You gotta get me out of here. I'm in third grade now. Third grade, gifted class, first day, come home. Listen, we gotta talk because this class is racist.

• 30:23Speaker 04

  Okay, well, tell me why, little William. This is my parents. Little William, tell me why it's racist? Everybody in there is white, okay? Only black kid in the class. I walked in, everybody turned around. Everybody looked at me. I'm the black kid in the class. I could tell they racist, they don't like me.

• 30:38Speaker 04

  Parents let me finish my tirade. They said, okay. Now, let me tell you why you have an advantage that none of those other kids have. You walked in the room, all the heads turned. You got everybody's attention. What you gonna do with it? You gonna give it up? Are you going to play into some preconceived notion they might have about who you are? What you can do, what you can't do? Or are you gonna keep that attention and never, ever let it go? And show them who you are. He said, all the other little white boys and girls in class, they gotta do something to stand out. You don't. It's all eyes on you. What you gonna do with it? I have lived that my entire life. You walk into a room and you the only one of one, whatever your one is? Use that, your advantage.

• 31:21Ryan Clark?

  He used the word why a lot of times, a lot, in explaining that. And also saw that you had to continuously go back to Beyonce to get her to do the movie. But she said, I was able to do it because she told me why.

• 31:37Speaker 04

  That's right. That's right.

• 31:39Ryan Clark?

  How have you been able to use the whys in the no's to help you continue to grow to where you are?

• 31:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, man. It's what I call the fortuitous no, right? And this is so important, all of us, but especially the generation behind us that has a level of entitlement that is not their fault, it's just the way that they were raised, where they get immediate validation, right? Generation below us, you post something, immediately you get a thousand likes, you know, "Oh, I got it, I knew I killed that outfit, yes, posting again," right? Everybody's gonna get told no, and I mean soundly rejected. I'm talking about not just like, "Oh, well, maybe next time." No, I'm talking about no. You, Fred Taylor, it's you. It ain't nobody else, it's you. We don't like you, you don't have it, you don't have what it takes, no, right? That hurts.

• 32:32Speaker 04

  And oftentimes, what we do, we get that no, and immediate reaction is, "F them," right? Just hate, they hating on me, clearly. Or it's just, it's not fair, right? It may be true. But if you can figure out why you got the no, you can turn it into a fortuitous no. But that requires you to bring your ego down a second, alright? So, yes, Beyonce is a great example. I had this movie called Obsessed, I went to her, and she told me no. And Beyonce is not a shy person, right? She's an amazing person, but she's not like, "Well, I don't think so." She was like, "Thank you, no." Like, she was very clear and direct. But what she did was she told me why she said no.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  And I then made adjustments, because I had to do my own cost-benefit analysis, we all do that. And I said, "Okay, it's worth it for me to try to figure out if I can get Beyonce in this movie, because that now is what the green light is dependent on." And she may never do it, but I gotta at least try. Well, tell me why. And she was gracious enough to tell me why. And then, through the process of going back and forth, she allowed me to bring it to her again, after I had made some adjustments based on what she said. She told me no, again. She told me no famously five times. But that sixth time, I had then adjusted that project, removed all the things that were bothering her, you know, schedule, you know, script.

• 33:59Speaker 04

  All these other stuff, I was able to then make it not only a project that she, I had removed the reasons for her to say no, actually made it a better project. See, that's the thing. If we can, you get told, no, I got a business plan, I'm coming in, I'm looking for investors, and the investors say no, right? Oh, so painful. But take a breath, breathe, remove your ego. Why did they tell you no? What is it? Your metaphorical Beyonce may never tell you yes, but if you learn something from the no, why the investors told you no, right? Why the casting director, the person that's hiring you, told you no for the new slot on their show? If you can listen to why they said no, doesn't mean everything they said is valuable,

• 34:40Speaker 04

  but some of it will be, and then you adjust, then it becomes a fortuitous no. So every time I get told no, and I, and it hurt, Will Packer gets told no for sure. I still get told no in my industry, right? But I do listen and try to figure out why, and then adjust what I'm doing. So if you can do that, then the no has value to you. That's when it becomes fortuitous.

• 35:04Channing Crowder?

  But Will, you said a number of times now, remove the ego.

• 35:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:08Channing Crowder?

  But then you have another phrase, healthy arrogance.

• 35:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:13Channing Crowder?

  Those aren't, those aren't on the same path. I have a thing that I say when, if you invite me somewhere, I'm not walking and saying, thank you. I'm walking and saying, you're welcome, because you invited me here.

• 35:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 35:24Channing Crowder?

  I could have been at the house with the kids. You invited me to this room, so you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome. I'm here, you know, appreciate it. Can I have some shrimp?

• 35:33Channing Crowder?

  But what, but what is that? The, the, the switch between removing the ego, but also healthy arrogance?

• 35:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. You know, it is, there's healthy arrogance and toxic arrogance. I need to know more about your arrogance. I'm not sure yet, because like, did you demand the shrimp? Did you say, you're welcome?

• 35:50Channing Crowder?

  God put me on this earth for everybody.

• 35:52Speaker 04

  You don't have to learn. Don't unpack that one? Super toxic.

• 35:57Ryan Clark?

  Like, like last night.

• 35:59Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 35:59Ryan Clark?

  On the plane, sitting next to Fred.

• 36:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 36:02Ryan Clark?

  Booty in the middle of the thing between him and Fred. That feels inappropriate.

• 36:06Fred Taylor?

  Worst experience.

• 36:07Ryan Clark?

  What are we doing? Mad at Fred because Fred even cashews. Like the Queen of England. I walk through like the Queen of England.

• 36:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. I've worked with a lot of people like you. That's very, that's very comfortable for me in Hollywood. That is, he didn't already work his way up from bodyguard. He's gonna get it in this movie. Ryan, you got, you got some work to do because this brother, he Hollywood ready. He, he cocky, he got the arrogance. You know what? Here's the thing that's interesting. So there's definitely toxic arrogance. Toxic arrogance walks in a room and says, "I'm better than everybody in this room." Okay? Everybody, "Look at me, I'm better than you, you, and you." Okay? That's toxic arrogance. And there's a lot of that out there. And we live in an environment where that is celebrated on a lot of ways, okay? Ultimately, it's not sustainable. I promise you. Ultimately, it is not something that people will gravitate towards you and want to help you and see your success.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  And it's also not something that is good for your own mental because you're constantly having to defend and show people why, "I'm the best in this room." It's not sustainable. Healthy arrogance walks into a room and doesn't question whether or not you belong in that room. Because I've been in some high-profile rooms. People that are some of the most powerful people all around the world. And the difference a lot of times in those people in those rooms is that they believe they're supposed to be there. People outside the rooms are like, "I'm not sure if I can hang in that room." So first is knowing you belong in the room. But the big thing is also realizing the reason you belong is not because you're better than anybody, but because you have something nobody else in that room has. You're bringing something to that room. And then the true key here is the room is better because you're in it?

• 37:43Speaker 04

  Because you're gonna make everybody else in the room better. That's healthy arrogance. It's a confidence. It is not about putting other people down. It's actually about realizing that when you lift everybody up, you've done something nobody else in that room could do. And you're better for it. It's not about getting that credit. It's not about having the ego. It's about doing it because that's just how damn good you are. You don't even have to say anything. You know when you walk into the room, the room got better because you got something that nobody else has.

• 38:14Fred Taylor?

  Is that like a earned belief? Because what's your book, Who Better Than You?

• 38:18Speaker 04

  Who Better Than You, yeah.

• 38:19Fred Taylor?

  The title, a year ago.

• 38:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:20Fred Taylor?

  So is that like a earned belief to have that sort of mind?

• 38:25Speaker 04

  I believe that confidence is a muscle like any other muscle and you have to work it. You literally have to work that confidence muscle every day. Because I meet people all the time and they're like, I'm just, I don't have that personality. I'm not outgoing like that. I'm not, you know, super comfortable being in these types of situations. I said, that's okay. You don't have to be. But what you have to do is you have to work it and do things to build up your own confidence. Words of affirmation. I do a daily affirmation, look myself right in the eye, tell myself what I got, how prepared I am for the day, what I'm gonna do that's gonna work out today. I do that because it's gonna be the last time I hear it. I'm not walking into rooms and everybody else going, you the best, Will, you got it. You got it. No. The world is set up to tear you down. So you need to hear that, number one. And you also need to recognize the voice you're hearing it from is the most important voice

• 39:10Speaker 04

  you're gonna hear it from that day. The other thing you gotta do, I believe in fabricating momentum. Fabricating momentum. Do things, right? When you're trying to accomplish something that lets you understand you're getting closer to your goal. My first movie when I graduated from FAMU, I was trying to raise $250,000, never even got close. Try and try and try. I didn't know anybody with money. I didn't know, you know, Fred Taylor won't answer my call, none of that, right? So I then said, I'm not setting a monetary goal, I'm gonna set a date goal. Okay? It was March, I said, whatever we able to raise by June, that's the budget of the film. It's not $250,000, it's whatever we able to raise in these three months. June came around, we had raised a whopping $75,000. Guess what the budget of that movie was? $75,000.

• 39:53Speaker 04

  It was a little tiny, low budget movie called Toi. And that was the budget of the film. We completed the film and it told people that I could make a movie, that I was a filmmaker. But most importantly, it told me that I could do. So people are out there and sometimes you get stuck, you get paralyzed preparing. You get stuck on that first rung. Your goal is, I'm gonna climb the mountain. I'm gonna climb the mountain, I can do it. Come on, I'm gonna climb the mountain. That's not the goal, that's not a good goal. Okay? That mountain is tall, it's cold outside, stop it. All right? Break it down. First thing, let's drive by the mountain, let's look at it, okay? Next day, let's go get the hiking shoes, all right? Next day, let's buy some rope. You've done three things towards your goal.

• 40:37Speaker 04

  Do something every day, even if it's small, because it's momentum. And sometimes you have to tell your own self. Because it's so easy to sit back and go, "I have done nothing towards my goal." "I said I was gonna do it." "January 1st was four months ago." "I have not done the thing I said I was gonna do." It's okay. Do something small. Fabricate that momentum for yourself. That's when I talk about building confidence as a muscle. Those are the kinds of things that you can do to get yourself closer to the goal. But too many people out there are going, "Yeah, I'ma go, I'ma climb the mountain." And a year later, you haven't climbed a whole entire mountain, and you feel disappointed, you feel stuck. You feel like, "I haven't accomplished anything." It's not true. You just gotta break down the goal. Give yourself some momentum. Say to yourself, "When I made that first little tiny movie after college,

• 41:21Speaker 04

  it said to me, 'You know what, I can do this.'" And I needed that more than anybody else.

• 41:25Ryan Clark?

  Well, you are extremely likeable.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  Well, thank you, sir.

• 41:29Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, not even in like, just, you just are. Like, listening to you tell stories, every time I've seen you, you're consistent. You've been the same every single time from the first time we met. You know, and even listening to you talk about the way you walk in rooms and understanding different things. You're hard to dislike, right? And you say the right things a lot. So this may be really hard for you to answer.

• 41:53Speaker 04

  This is gonna be tough.

• 41:54Ryan Clark?

  Uh, we sat with President Obama.

• 41:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 41:57Ryan Clark?

  Right, and we were talking, obviously, him as the first black president, there were rooms he was in where people didn't feel he belonged.

• 42:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:05Ryan Clark?

  And he said, "And after a while, I would sit there and I'd look around, I'd go, 'Oh, these people really aren't that smart.'" Right?

• 42:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:13Ryan Clark?

  Have you ever been in a room trying to communicate or convey something to people? And you did feel to yourself at the end of it, "I'm trying to do all this and I'm jumping through these hoops." But these people really aren't that smart.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  All the time. All the time, all the time. That's, listen, I'll say it, that's Hollywood. That is Hollywood. Hollywood, and I got a lot of great peers that work in the industry. It's a lot of mediocre people. There's a lot of people that were getting stuffed in the lockers in high school. I was, I was, I was not one of those dudes. So when I run into one of those dudes, and they telling me what they not gonna do, and how I'm wrong, and I'm going, I know they stuffed you in the lockers. I'm looking at them, and I'm going, I know they was on your ass. They told you at lunch, fifth period, boy, save the chocolate milk, or I'm whooping your ass. Like, I'm dealing with people like that all the time, RC.

• 43:12Speaker 04

  That is 100%, and so it makes it hard, because that's not me, right? That's not my personality. I'm somebody that believes like, hey, man, mean what you say, say what you mean, look somebody in the eye, you know what I mean? Have a level of confidence, man up, like, all those types of things. But Hollywood is, is, here's the interesting thing about Hollywood. You don't have to have a degree, or a very specific, quantifiable skill set. Right. You just have to be able to know somebody. A lot of people in Hollywood there because they knew somebody, because they got a good last name, right? A lot of people in Hollywood because they were able to accomplish something. They don't have, you don't have to have a degree in the world, you don't have to have gone to college at all. But you come up with a great idea, or create a great short, write a great script, you in the game. Right. That is, that, that I actually like about Hollywood,

• 43:57Speaker 04

  because in that way, it is very much dependent on you, and what you're able to deliver. But there are a lot of people that are in there just because, because they have money, their parents have money, uncle have money, and a lot of those people are in some very high positions. So it is challenging. What I remind myself is, I did not come in this room to make friends and hang out with these people. I came in this room with a very specific mission. We get so caught up, and take things personal with people that you might never see again. Yeah. They got no real effect on your life. Why are you so upset? And that's where the compartmentalization comes in. Yeah. I am very good at being able to focus on, you know, keep the main thing the main thing. But yeah, I'm in those rooms all the time.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  But what I say is like, you know what? This is just a person with a title. They got a title, so I have to give them that respect, and I have to deal with them, and try to convince them of something that I know they do not have the cognitive ability to truly understand, but I'm still, my job in this room is to get my green light. So that's what I'm gonna do.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time.

• 45:09Speaker 00

  Ask your prescriber about Wegovy. Somemagnitide injection 2.4 milligrams a GLP-1. Call 1-8334-WEGOVIE or visit Wegovy.com to view the medication guide and to learn more about Wegovy. Why wait?

• 45:27Ryan Clark?

  Well, y'all don't have scoreboards, right?

• 45:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:30Ryan Clark?

  But y'all have other ways to quantify.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  We do.

• 45:32Ryan Clark?

  Whether or not you won.

• 45:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:36Ryan Clark?

  Right? In football, we got the film. So on after game day, I would get to go in. I would go home, I would eat. I got myself a pizza. That was my treat. At the end of the week, I get a cheese pizza and a pack of Michelob Ultra. Right? That was how I celebrated.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  This is your all-star athlete, what?

• 45:54Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, because the entire, because the entire week you gotta eat a certain way and you're training and you're doing treatment.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  This is after the game or before the game?

• 46:02Ryan Clark?

  This is after the game.

• 46:03Speaker 04

  Okay. This is on Sunday?

• 46:04Ryan Clark?

  Sunday after the game when I would get home, I would get a cheese pizza and a pack of Michelob Ultra.

• 46:08Speaker 04

  Got it.

• 46:09Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, that was my celebration. I am so disappointed.

• 46:11Speaker 04

  Like a frat boy.

• 46:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I know. That's okay.

• 46:14Speaker 04

  This is in college or this is pros?

• 46:15Ryan Clark?

  This is in the pros.

• 46:16Speaker 04

  Oh, Jesus. As a professional athlete, Michelob Ultra pizza. No, no, no, I just needed to be clear because. The pizza's cool, the Michelob Ultra. America's so disappointed, I know I'm not alone in hearing this, whatever. You're amazing, Ryan, keep going.

• 46:28Ryan Clark?

  It's the first beer I ever drank with my dad, like.

• 46:31Speaker 04

  It's special, it's special to you.

• 46:32Ryan Clark?

  It's all I knew.

• 46:33Speaker 04

  So every Sunday after the game.

• 46:34Ryan Clark?

  That's what I do.

• 46:35Speaker 04

  You destroyed the hard work you did, whatever. I feel like we getting on.

• 46:38Ryan Clark?

  I was already destroyed by that point anyway, well, I was barely walking. So, but I'd watch the film, right? And I'd get to know, okay, this is how I did. But every Sunday when I was walking into the stadium, I was like, man, I put the work in. This is exactly where I wanted to be. This is who I wanted to be. It's going to be great. I'm going to have a great day. When you make a film, right? Or you do a TV series, was there ever, or which movie, film, whatever it was, that you thought this is the one? And then it didn't hit?

• 47:11Speaker 04

  And then it did not? What I'll tell you is the movies that I didn't get made that you wouldn't even know. Right? You're saying like, after I got it made, that didn't get to a certain level. I'm gonna break it down further than that, Ryan, and say like, imagine you train all week, all summer, all season, and then you don't even get to play in the game.

• 47:32Ryan Clark?

  Hmm. So you're saying like, I have this idea, I know it's gonna be a hit, and people don't even...

• 47:37Speaker 04

  Absolutely. Work on it for years, getting it ready, developing it, get your pitch, go in, and cannot sell it. Can't sell it at the place A, B, or C. That's the painful thing. These are projects that you, you know, you'll never know the name of because they didn't get put out there. See, me making a movie, it's hard to make any movie, especially if you're talking about major Hollywood productions. Any movie. Any movie's very, very hard to make. Once you make the movie, that's a win. So it's the equivalent of just getting on the field is the win. Now, you wanna win the game on the scoreboard, no question. I've been very blessed. I got more scoreboard wins than most people. But what I'm gonna take you is not just the, well, if it didn't like...

• 48:15Ryan Clark?

  It's almost like getting cut.

• 48:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yes. It's like getting cut. You're no longer on the team. I've gotten cut more times than I have won. People just don't see it. That's the pain. That's the pain. It's somebody watching right now going, I just wanna get a movie made, right? Because it's so hard to get it made, especially if you're talking about with major financing. I also have been in that position where I have not been able to get the movie made. So that is, now you gotta come past that. You gotta overcome that. Yeah, sure, absolutely. There's certain projects, I would walk in, like I told the Beyonce story. That movie, they liked the idea of the movie and they said, it doesn't matter who's in it. It's not about the cast. And I had just done a movie with Idris.

• 48:59Speaker 04

  And so I had Idris and then we were just looking for his wife to play it. And I heard through her agent that I knew that Beyonce was looking to do like a thriller. And I was like, oh, that would be fun, right? The studio's already said, we making a movie. We already got Idris, like, we'll figure out who the actor's gonna be. Beyonce's like, oh, I'd like to do a thriller. I was like, you know what? Let me just send it to B, just to see, right? Send it, she passed. Okay, cool. I went back to studio. Okay, let's talk about this movie and who we gonna... They said, da, da, da, da, da, da. We heard you sent it to Beyonce. I said, yeah, I did, but she said, no, they said, we gonna need Beyonce. I said, "I'm sorry, what?"

• 49:34Ryan Clark?

  They changed up on you in the middle.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  What? All of a sudden, the whole movie was dependent on one of the biggest superstars in the world. That happens more often because the industry's constantly changing. It's a week-to-week scorecard. If a movie worked last week starring somebody that they didn't know the week before, all of a sudden, everybody wants that star. And if you had somebody that they thought was a star and that movie didn't work, all of a sudden, guess what? Audience is not checking for them. They're not really a star anymore. So it means that the goalposts are constantly moving. So I am not immune to that. I'm walking into rooms and I am trying to, you know, give a reactive industry, not proactive, reactive, what they think they're looking for at that time. And oftentimes, they will say, "Okay, yeah, you know, we'll do it,

• 50:20Speaker 04

  but we gotta get Ryan Clark." Well, Ryan Clark might be booked up. He got movies, you know, from now to 2029. So this ain't happening no time soon. If you're telling me that's the only person that can do it, yeah, that's it. We gotta get blah, blah, blah. Okay, all right. Didn't happen. Got cut.

• 50:40Ryan Clark?

  I mean, these guys were All-Americans and draft picks and stuff. I've been cut. So like, I know what that feels like.

• 50:47Channing Crowder?

  See, I had a little body built, though.

• 50:50Channing Crowder?

  He built funny.

• 50:51Ryan Clark?

  Bro, first off, dog, you knocked me. Like, how does that even, in front of Will?

• 50:58Channing Crowder?

  That's changed the direction. That's changed the direction.

• 51:03Speaker 04

  The one thing about football is that, you know, it's hard. You can still play if you like, small and fast. This is a way to introduce the fact that I used to play, guys. You know, I was, um, I feel like we haven't talked about that in the interview, but St. Pete High School, I had one game where I was hell out there. I played in Florida. Fred knows, okay? I was a star. Who'd y'all play tonight? We played against Lakewood High School, William Floyd. What position was this? I was a defensive back and wide receiver, okay? Now, I was not tall, but I was fearless. I would take down anybody, except William Floyd. William Floyd, bar none.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  Bar none.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  This is where I knew I was not cut out to be like you guys. William Floyd, none of this gonna make the interview. But, William Floyd, they gave him the ball, played for St. Pete High. He played for Lakewood, gave him the ball. Somehow, he got clean through, I'm the DB, right? He got clean through the D-line, the linebackers. It's me and William Floyd, okay? William Floyd was 250 in high school. Like, what, I was this size in high school, right? So, I'm there, I'm squaring up, just, let's get it. I'm waiting for help. I need somebody to help me. So, as he's coming towards me, I'm supposed to be coming to him. He coming towards me, I'm backing up slightly. I didn't want it to make you see, I wasn't running from William Floyd, but I needed other people.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  I felt like I could take him down if there was, nobody came. It's a team sport, Ryan. So, I didn't, I didn't get a man 10 yards, like, don't let, don't, you don't want me to come, I'm about to hit you low. You don't want me to, hey, hey, hey.

• 52:42Speaker 02

  Nobody showed up.

• 52:43Speaker 04

  You don't see this man running?

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Nobody showed up.

• 52:46Speaker 04

  Finally, me and another DB took Big Floyd down. Shout out to William Floyd, St. Pete's zone, yeah.

• 52:51Fred Taylor?

  You go tell mama he racist. Mama couldn't save you that day.

• 52:56Speaker 04

  You say what?

• 52:56Fred Taylor?

  You say, I say you couldn't go tell mama he racist, like you did in the third grade.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  Oh, oh.

• 53:00Fred Taylor?

  Tried to get up out of it. You couldn't get out of the situation.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  Literally, literally.

• 53:04Fred Taylor?

  I did want to ask you really quick about your relationship with Kevin Hart.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:09Fred Taylor?

  Very productive partnership.

• 53:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:11Fred Taylor?

  What do you guys continue to do over and over from, to bring, to bring whatever you bring out each other creatively?

• 53:18Speaker 04

  The industry is so hard that you want to work with people who have a similar work ethic. You're not gonna outwork me, right? You might, you might have a better script, project, bigger box office, but you're not gonna outwork me when it comes time to the work. And you're not gonna outwork Kev. And it's interesting. I know Kev better than most. He and I are each other's most frequent collaborators. I've made more movies with Kev than I have any other individual actors. He's made more movies and TV shows with me than he has any other director or producer. So I know him very well. I can say this. He's an evil little man. He really is. Kevin Hart is, uh... Babe! He is just... He seems pleasant. He's an awful little human. You don't know him. He is, he's, he's evil in his own way. But he's also very loyal.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  So loyal and evil is a weird mix, but I know him, so I can say it. He is somebody that, he's gonna work himself to death, you know? And he's, he's gonna do what it takes and he's gonna outwork you. And that's why we get along so well, because I'm the same way. And you have to have balance, so I'm not like advocating, you know, just work yourself till you got nothing left. You have to have that work-life balance, which is something that I've learned. And it's something that I've learned from him. We did Ride Along, and Ride Along was, at that time, the biggest opening on MLK Weekend. And we were out in L.A. and Cube, Ice Cube, said, "Yo, let's go to Vegas to celebrate. We got a number one movie in the country." "I got the jet. I'll get the jet. Let's go. Let's hop in." I said, "Man, let's do it."

• 54:46Speaker 04

  And I called Kev, and we had a promotional shoot for another movie we were doing that year called About Last Night, that we made with him, Michael E. and Regina Hall, Joy Bryant. And we were supposed to shoot that Sunday, but Cube was like, "Yo, Saturday night, let's go. We can get it." I was like, "Kev, listen, let's do this." And I know Kev. Kev ain't never met a party that he turned down, right? So I was like, "Let's blow off the shoot. I'll figure it out. I'll work it in, see if we can do that some other time. Let's hit Vegas." Kevin Hart shocked me because he said, "Will, Vegas gonna be there." He said, "I've been here before, where I've had success and I've lost it all."

• 55:29Speaker 04

  He said, "My biggest financial year, I thought I was rich, and my accountant told me, 'Great, now you only owe another $250,000 to the government, 'cause all these other years you didn't pay taxes.'" He said, "I told myself, if I ever got to the point where I was successful, I was gonna double down, triple down, quadruple down. So I never, ever was at a point again where I saw my success taken from me, because I took it for granted." He said, "I'm not going to Vegas, and neither are you." He said, "We're gonna stay here, and we're gonna put this work in." And I respected him for that, still do, absolutely. You gotta be able to put the work in, man.

• 56:06Channing Crowder?

  Does it minimize, or I don't know, pigeonhole? I don't know the exact phrase, that every time they talk about you, they throw black in front of it. You went to an HBCU, but it's black filmmaker.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 56:19Channing Crowder?

  It's black, you know, direct, black producer, black. Does it minimize it? Or is it prideful that they always have to throw that? Because you could be like Scorsese's and Tarantino's and those guys. They don't throw white in front of it.

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Right.

• 56:34Channing Crowder?

  But they throw black in front of yours.

• 56:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's such an interesting question. And what I would say is that I'm very proud of the fact that I make projects that are universal, that have subject matters and themes that people can relate to regardless of your ethnicity or your demographic. But they are told through a very specific lens. And that means that I have a lane that many people don't have. I'm still that kid in third grade, trying to say, I got all eyes on me and I want to keep them. I don't want you to look anywhere else. I'm still the kid in third grade saying, yeah, I'm the only black kid in the class. And I'm proud of that because it gives me an advantage over everybody else. I'm still that kid. So when they say, he is the most this black filmmaker,

• 57:21Speaker 04

  the most profitable that black filmmaker, I say, bring it on. I'm very proud of that lane that I occupy. You also have to add amongst filmmakers, I'm holding my own as well, right? There's not a lot of white filmmakers that have the resume that I have. But I never, ever shirk away from the fact that I do occupy a lane that makes me unique. And there have been a very specific audience that has helped me to get to that point. So anything that would feel like, well, I mean, don't call me that. I'm not, don't say black, you know, with the capital B when you talk about. To me, that would be disingenuous and disrespectful to the audience that got me there. So I'm very proud of it. I would be that black filmmaker all day. But I am a filmmaker and I make movies.

• 58:07Speaker 04

  And here's the thing, you don't get to a billion dollars in box office off of just one demographic. You don't do it. To have the success I've had, you gotta bring everybody into the tent. But I did it through my very specific POV. I did it my way. That's what I'm most proud of.

• 58:22Channing Crowder?

  Well, they call me a pocket watcher. You just said the billion. What's, how's the structure set up for your, your angle of that billion?

• 58:32Speaker 04

  You don't get the billion. So I try to remind people in that case they want to catch me in the pivot parking lot. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't have it on me at present. I like to remind people of that. What I would say is that I am very fortunate, like you all, to work in a high-profile industry that has those, you know, those ceilings and that kind of money that flows through it. And being a producer is not a bad place to be when you're talking about box office.

• 59:00Ryan Clark?

  Also too, I don't know why you included us in whatever business you were talking about, where people could like do things that make a billion dollars. Cause we not part of that. You part of that company?

• 59:12Fred Taylor?

  Yeah, I ain't, I ain't.

• 59:13Ryan Clark?

  I'm not part of that. You part of that industry, friend?

• 59:15Fred Taylor?

  I haven't made it.

• 59:16Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. Don't we do M's? We don't do B's. Yeah, yeah, that's not the, I feel like the alphabet ain't lining up to where Will.

• 59:24Speaker 04

  Y'all are some incredibly successful, high-profile brothers.

• 59:28Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, they were like, yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Listen, man.

• 59:30Ryan Clark?

  I appreciate you though.

• 59:30Speaker 04

  The average cat is not dealing with professional athlete money.

• 59:34Ryan Clark?

  I got it.

• 59:34Speaker 04

  You know what I'm saying? And it's different now. I get it though. That, that's the only thing I would say about being an athlete is that if I was like our generation, old school, I would hate these new cats because the deals they coming out with. See, with movies is different because it's like, it's such a weird industry that is hard for the young cast. I'm trying to help the young cast. They can't even get in.

• 59:55Ryan Clark?

  It's difficult, right.

• 59:56Speaker 04

  You have to have a young generation and they're coming in and they signing deals. And I know y'all looking like, man, I gave my spleen away for a fraction of that.

• 1:00:06Ryan Clark?

  I actually literally gave my spleen away. Did you do that purposely?

• 1:00:11Speaker 04

  The spleen thing?

• 1:00:12Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I lost my spleen playing football.

• 1:00:13Speaker 04

  I did not know that. I didn't, is, is it okay? Can we laugh about it?

• 1:00:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah. Channing laughs about it all the time.

• 1:00:19Speaker 04

  I didn't know that was a thing.

• 1:00:21Fred Taylor?

  I'm gonna die.

• 1:00:23Ryan Clark?

  In Denver.

• 1:00:24Speaker 04

  Well, I knew, I knew about the Denver thing because of the, the altitude. I don't know that I knew.

• 1:00:27Ryan Clark?

  I lost my spleen.

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  You lost your spleen playing football.

• 1:00:30Ryan Clark?

  I got it.

• 1:00:30Speaker 04

  Well, he ain't got no insides.

• 1:00:32Ryan Clark?

  I ain't got no gallbladder.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  He got no insides. He had a hysterectomy. Look at you. Look at you. He had a, he got.

• 1:00:39Speaker 02

  He got no indoors.

• 1:00:40Speaker 04

  He took it all out.

• 1:00:41Ryan Clark?

  It's hard, though.

• 1:00:42Speaker 04

  That's why he's.

• 1:00:43Ryan Clark?

  Will ain't that damn funny.

• 1:00:44Speaker 04

  He got a heart.

• 1:00:45Ryan Clark?

  He funny.

• 1:00:46Speaker 04

  He got a heart of stuff.

• 1:00:47Ryan Clark?

  He's not that likable.

• 1:00:48Speaker 04

  I see you look good, man. Would you do it again?

• 1:00:51Ryan Clark?

  Yes, absolutely. I tried to go back. I couldn't, I wasn't supposed to play there, or they wouldn't allow me to play anymore. I begged to play. I put a team of doctors together, you know, with Coach Tomlin.

• 1:01:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:00Ryan Clark?

  Said if I was his child, he wouldn't let me go back. So I never played again. But yeah, I would do it again, over and over.

• 1:01:05Speaker 04

  You don't regret it?

• 1:01:06Ryan Clark?

  No.

• 1:01:06Speaker 04

  That's what it took. That's the sacrifice.

• 1:01:08Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:01:08Speaker 04

  Now, the only thing that you have to understand is that the young Ryan Clark today would do the same thing with that same sacrifice, but make like a hundred times more money.

• 1:01:18Ryan Clark?

  A lot more money.

• 1:01:18Speaker 04

  Would make way more than you.

• 1:01:20Ryan Clark?

  I fought for that. I was in the union, the P A. I fought for that.

• 1:01:22Speaker 04

  There you go. You paved the way.

• 1:01:24Ryan Clark?

  You mentioned Universal Movies, right? Being able to make movies for everyone. Like you said, you don't, you know, have the type of success you have making movies for a particular audience, right? And you, me and Tuscan, like, I think it's a great concept.

• 1:01:38Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:39Ryan Clark?

  Right? A great audience. You know what you, I think, what'd he say? A little spicy white man or something?

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:01:43Ryan Clark?

  You know what I'm saying? Something like that. But to have that mindset, right? To make a rom-com in that way that is blending so many cultures. How exciting was it to put that together creatively and see it all come to fruition?

• 1:01:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a good example of making a movie, that movie could have starred anybody. It could have definitely starred a young white girl, a young Latina, a young Asian girl. I wanted to tell this story through the P O V of a woman that looked like Halle Bailey. And I did that because my daughters, my daughters are in Halle's age range, and they've never had a movie where they seen themselves in an aspirational, exotic location, somewhere on the other side of the world, falling in love. And young white girls have seen that. Young women of other ethnicities have seen that. My daughters have not seen that. So I was like, you know what? I love what this represents. But also, it is a universal story.

• 1:02:43Speaker 04

  She then goes and she meets this crazy Italian family. Those are the spicy whites in the movie. They call them the spicy whites. Which, by the way, is very accurate. I spent the whole summer in Italy. I had a ball. Very much like black people. I'm just gonna tell you, I was very home. Talk loud, in your face, you know what I mean? You think they mad, but they not, you know what I mean? And it was like, oh, you're my people, I like it. But yeah, it's a universal love story. And it's a romantic comedy. And so the fact that it's told through the lens of two people who happen to be black, right? One black American, Reggae John Page, plays the brother who's a love interest. He's a Brit in the movie. He's an expat Brit who lives in Italy. Like, it's all kind of cultural mashups. But that's what the world looks like.

• 1:03:22Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think, honestly, though, you know, I don't know if there's many stories where like, you fake a fiance, the guy comes back to Italy, you with the brother cousin. Like, I feel like that's a story where if it was just all us, somebody gotta get pause put on it. Like, at some point, we're gonna be like, hey.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  It wouldn't have worked.

• 1:03:42Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, we gotta square up.

• 1:03:43Speaker 04

  No, yeah, cuz she broke into those Italian people's villa. And I feel like if any one of y'all had came home and it was somebody in your people's crib, like, in the crib.

• 1:03:54Ryan Clark?

  Moms was gonna cut up.

• 1:03:55Speaker 04

  It's some splaining. With a capital S, it's some splaining to do. It would've been a short film. It would've been like, the hell, what? Pop, pop, pop, whoa, shit. It could've been an SNL skit, that's it.

• 1:04:07Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, no question.

• 1:04:09Fred Taylor?

  This is the moment I've been waiting for, the Will Packer pivot. The biggest pivot in life. That one moment you can look back on and say, because this happened to me and for me, I am who I am today.

• 1:04:18Speaker 04

  You know what? It's gonna tie back to what we talked about earlier. I am who I am today because when I graduated from high school, I was headed to the University of Pennsylvania in the Wharton School of Business, an Ivy League business program, one of the top in the country, then and still is today. And that was my intention, was to go and go to an Ivy League school and start my career. And my parents, led by my father, who's no longer with us, God bless him, he said, "Florida A&M University is giving you a full-ride scholarship." And there was a man named Dr. Frederick S. Humphreys, who was a president of the family at the time. And he came, and he sat in my living room at my house, like I was a D1 athlete.

• 1:05:03Speaker 04

  And he recruited me to go to Florida A&M and offer me a full ride. And he said, "We're not the University of Pennsylvania, we're not Yale, we're not Princeton, we're not Harvard. We're something different. And if you come to this school, you're gonna have people that believe in you and give you a foundation of success that those other schools will not give you. You're gonna be an "other" at those schools. You're gonna be centered at this school." And he said all that to me. And I still didn't wanna go. And I said, "Yeah, but I'm too good to go to an HBCU. Look at my grades, look at my test scores. The kids that was cheating off of me in class going to FAMU, I'm not going there, I'm going to an Ivy." And my dad sat me down and said, "You too young to understand this, but this is the best opportunity that you've ever had in your young life.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  And you're gonna go to FAMU. Afterwards, if you choose to continue on and go to whatever grad school, you can do that. But you're gonna go to FAMU and take this scholarship." And this man has come and sat in this house, and we're gonna see what it's all about, to be centered for once in your life. And that's what I did. And from there, everything flowed. That's why I fell in love with filmmaking, that's why I met my partner, Rob Hardy. We made our first movie. From there, I went off, moved to Atlanta, started making movies. It is where I really began to believe in myself and found my voice was there. So that was the pivot for me. That was the decision. Made for me. I was not smart enough, and I did not have the maturity to make it myself at that time. That was the decision

• 1:06:33Speaker 04

  that more than anything puts me on this couch with you guys today.

• 1:06:36Ryan Clark?

  No, man, that's amazing. Bro, it was honestly better than I thought it would even be. I know we tried to get it done a lot of times.

• 1:06:44Speaker 04

  Well, Ryan, I feel like you should unpack that because when I saw you, you was like, "Oh, we'd be so glad to have you. Please come on the show."

• 1:06:51Ryan Clark?

  I was still glad.

• 1:06:52Speaker 04

  And now I feel like your expectation was a little low, so... Like, what did he say, fellas, before I came in? Was he excited or...?

• 1:07:00Ryan Clark?

  Will.

• 1:07:00Speaker 04

  Because I thought this was my guy.

• 1:07:01Ryan Clark?

  I was very excited. Expectations are breeding ground for disappointment, though.

• 1:07:06Speaker 04

  They are. So was yours low or...? Because I exceeded them. I love exceeding them, but I feel like, were they?

• 1:07:12Ryan Clark?

  So, no, they weren't low, but you have exceeded them, right? Black people can't take no damn compliment either. They're trying to compliment this man for 20 minutes.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Y'all got that little podcast.

• 1:07:23Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  You got them little movies over there. We will do that, boy. We'll lure you to death, won't we?

• 1:07:32Speaker 04

  Ryan, no, seriously, man. I appreciate you. And I also appreciate, and whether this is about the podcast or not, I want to say this to you three black men. Like, you're creating a platform. You have created it. You're expanding it where you allow people like myself, not in front of the camera people, to go out and tell stories to a generation that needs them. There might be one, two, three people that are inspired by a conversation that we had here today. What you all are doing, sometimes you don't understand the power of what you're doing when you're in it. But you really are, man. And you're doing it in a way, and I have to say this and give it to you, you're doing it in a way that's professional and classy, dawg.

• 1:08:15Ryan Clark?

  Thank you.

• 1:08:15Speaker 04

  It's not messy. And a lot of people out there, and I know y'all know, a lot of your contemporaries feel like, "I got to have so-and-so on because that's going to get them clicks, that's going to get the eyeballs." It's not sustainable, man. What y'all are doing is sustainable. There's certain stuff that I just, I won't associate myself with, and major brands won't, and major media companies won't. But you all are doing it the right way.

• 1:08:35Ryan Clark?

  Nah, man, I really appreciate that. That means a lot. We had that conversation often. About the conversations we want to have, about the impact we want to have. But more importantly, it's about what you feel when you get up off that couch.

• 1:08:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:47Ryan Clark?

  Right? The fact that you can go forward and say, "Hey, man, this was a positive experience."

• 1:08:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:52Ryan Clark?

  And you enlightened me in so many ways. I think you blessed us with what you said. And I know a lot of people are gonna learn a lot from this, so thank you, fam.

• 1:08:59Speaker 04

  I appreciate it.

• 1:09:00Ryan Clark?

  Yes, sir.

• 1:09:00Speaker 04

  And I'm glad I didn't pay. I didn't play, fellas. I don't know, because I have my spleen. I don't know if I need my spleen, but I have it.

• 1:09:08Ryan Clark?

  Will, here's the worst part.

• 1:09:09Speaker 04

  I used to want to play. I'm really glad I didn't, guys.

• 1:09:12Ryan Clark?

  Will, but here's the worst part. He talks about it all the time. Oh, he be like, man, he's so sickly.

• 1:09:17Speaker 04

  Is he sensitive about it?

• 1:09:19Ryan Clark?

  No, I don't care.