“They’re Liars!” Greg Doucette Calls Out Fitness Scams, Bodybuilding Grifters, & Secret PED’s

Peterson Academy: Join today for $59 a month! https://petersonacademy.com/ICH ExpressPros: Get the hiring support you need at https://ExpressPros.com TNUSA: CALL 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://tnusa.com/ich ZocDoc: Go to https://www.zocdoc.com/ICED and download the Zocdoc App for FREE Follow Greg Doucette : Website - https://www.gregdoucette.com/ On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLqH-U2TXzj1h7lyYQZLNQQ On Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gregdoucetteifbbpro Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Introduction 00:01:52 - Most shocking fake natty 00:04:34 - Safest vs. riskiest PEDs 00:07:55 - First time using steroids 00:08:56 - Are tested athletes clean? 00:10:29 - Worst steroid story 00:13:37 - Steroid mistakes 00:13:45 - Sponsor - Peterson Academy 00:17:43 - Can steroids be good? 00:19:30 - Body dysmorphia in fitness 00:21:31 - Dedication vs. disorder 00:22:56 - Attracting men vs. women 00:25:34 - Compliments: guys vs. girls 00:30:02 - Greg’s false natty calls 00:30:30 - Regret calling people out? 00:33:08 - Worst fitness fraud 00:35:13 - Sponsor - ExpressPros 00:36:08 - Natty status you wonder about 00:37:31 - Biggest influencer downfall 00:42:00 - Why people stay out of shape 00:44:27 - Is obesity a choice? 00:50:40 - Best everyday diet 00:51:05 - Best supplements 00:53:36 - Top fitness myths 00:55:18 - Beginner workout 00:58:39 - Eating clean while traveling 01:01:47 - Daily calorie limit? 01:05:24 - Sponsor - TNUSA 01:06:49 - Sponsor - ZocDoc 01:07:55 - Fast food hacks 01:10:47 - Relationship advice 01:15:45 - Does height matter? 01:20:40 - Greg’s income 01:26:13 - Fit vs. rich hypothetical 01:27:00 - Delete 1 fitness influencer 01:28:32 - Most underrated influencer 01:29:15 - Dad bod vs. shredded 01:29:30 - Most respected influencer 01:30:36 - Who Greg would live with 01:31:39 - Next big fitness lie 01:33:43 - Pre-filming hype 01:34:33 - Biggest Insecurity 01:35:14 - Greg vs. Bradley Martyn 01:37:35 - Jesse James West impression *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Almost every single person that you think is on steroids is.

• 0:35Graham Stephan?

  Who is the biggest fraud that you exposed?

• 0:37Speaker 01

  I mean, who's the bigger fraud? Is it Mike O'Hern or is it The Rock? Is it the guy that plays Thor? How do we decide who's the biggest fraud? Does anyone think The Rock is natural? And why would he be in his 50s? But when you think, why wouldn't somebody take a product to help them get better? If it's gonna make them feel better, look the better.

• 0:53Speaker 03

  I took them, yeah, up until the competition.

• 0:55Speaker 04

  You could have died. Were you scared?

• 0:58Speaker 03

  I was very scared.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Most people that are training are not doing it for their health. Almost all are doing it to be more attractive.

• 1:05Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think we have an obesity problem?

• 1:07Speaker 01

  We have the invention of the telephone, which has caused us to be more sedentary. There's way more highly palatable foods available everywhere. It's a recipe for disaster. I think that the average person doesn't want it bad enough. If I jumped into anyone's body watching this right now, in a year from now, I would look amazing compared to what you do right now, and I'd look like a piece of [BLEEP]. Because you would jump into my body and waste it.

• 1:28Graham Stephan?

  What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

• 1:36Graham Stephan?

  Coach Craig, thank you so much for coming on the Iced Coffee Hour. Really appreciate it.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

• 1:41Graham Stephan?

  Thank you. So I'm curious, you call out a lot of influencers who are not natty, who are taking steroids. How common is it that this happens?

• 1:49Speaker 01

  I think it's way more common than people even think. It's extremely prevalent. And the reason for that is because it's still not socially acceptable. And people who take steroids, they don't want people to misjudge them or to think that they're somehow bad. So rather than just being honest, they just hide. Because people are gonna be critical if they admit the truth.

• 2:06Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. What percentage of people would you say are on steroids? See them on Instagram. They're lifting and they look just massive.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  I would say almost every single person that you think is on steroids is. So probably three quarters of the people that you would say, yeah, he's probably on steroids. They're most likely are.

• 2:22Graham Stephan?

  Who is the biggest fake natty you exposed that shocked everybody?

• 2:25Speaker 01

  That shocked people. I would say probably that guy that just came back after a two-year hiatus of doing David Dobrik. David Dobrik. I made a video on that. It got like maybe half a million views. I'm like, this guy's not natural. Because he doesn't, he doesn't look like me. And it's like, no, he could achieve that body natural. I'm like, yes, but he didn't. So typically, it's not the guys that are most jacked. It's the guys with average physiques. And like, that guy's average physique was not achieved natural, because most people who take steroids don't actually look like they do.

• 2:54Graham Stephan?

  So what do you think? Yeah, I'm so curious, because David Dobrik, to me, seems like that would be totally achievable if you do nothing but eat really good, weight lift every day, have a trainer, have a nutritionist. Like, why couldn't you achieve that physique?

• 3:09Speaker 01

  You absolutely could if you had elite level genetics. And see, that's the problem. I'll show a photo of me when I'm like 21, and they'll, and I'll say, you know, that was natural. I did 42 shows natural. And they'll say, well, your physique is better than him. And you say, you're natural, so why didn't he do it? I'm like, because his genetics aren't as good. You take the most elite genetics in the world, and you train 100% natural, compared to a guy on every steroid that you can think of who has horrible genetics, the elite natural looks way better every single time.

• 3:34Graham Stephan?

  How confident are you that he's on something? Like, a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being like, I'm 100%. 80%. What would you suggest he's on?

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Maybe some Scams, HRT, peptides. There's so many things that, for example, if you have millions of dollars in access to money, and if you're not, like, against using performance-enhancing drugs, then why shouldn't you? Like, why wouldn't he use something? Like, it's not illegal, so why wouldn't he do it? There's nothing illegal about taking a peptide. So if he was taking, for example, ipamorlin, or sermorlin, or IGF-1, IGF-2, MGF. There's so many different peptides that could help him build more muscle, then why wouldn't he take it? And a lot of fake natties, they'll say, I can prove it. They'll take their testosterone test, they'll post their testosterone levels. I'm like, yeah, great, you're not on testosterone. You didn't prove anything. Anything else? There's so many other things you could take. Growth hormone is another example.

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Scams like Osterine, you probably have heard of that, maybe Rad 140 or LGD, some of these things. So there's so many other things that can give you an advantage. Same thing as guys like The Rock. Does anyone think The Rock is natural? And why should he be? Why would he be in his 50s? Now, I would argue that he's probably on a lot of products, not just HRT. But when you think, why wouldn't somebody take a product to help them get better? If it's gonna make them feel better, look the better, be healthier, why wouldn't they do it?

• 4:49Graham Stephan?

  How do you know David had bad genetics? What if he just had good genetics, but he his entire life just never worked out and he was eating too much?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  If you have great genetics, even if you don't try, you're gonna look somewhat okay, somewhat respectable, and you're gonna respond very quickly.

• 5:04Graham Stephan?

  What would you say are the safest PEDs to use and the most dangerous PEDs?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  I would say the safest would be testosterone with the prescription from a doctor, which is a performance, it's because it's testosterone and you could argue it's bioidentical, whatever. It's like testosterone, testosterone. I'm on HRT prescribed by my doctor. I get my blood work done multiple times a year. I feel very healthy, but if I push that dose higher than the doctor recommends, that's when it becomes dangerous. But at the dose that's recommended, I think it's very healthy. That to me would be probably one of the safest. But of course, if you just use it on your own, not very safe. The safest oral, probably Anavar in terms of side effects, but anything at a high dose is not gonna be very safe. Other performance enhancing drugs, I could argue, is Cialis a performance enhancing drug? It's not banned by WADA, which is the World Anti-Doping Agency,

• 5:52Speaker 01

  but I think it has a performance enhancing effect. And should it be called a drug? Well, it's debatable. Caffeine is a drug. Without question, it was banned by WADA. So in the Olympics years ago, you couldn't use caffeine above a certain level. You fail a drug test. It was considered cheating. But like we have iced coffee tower. If you drank five cups of coffee, is that performance enhancing? I would say absolutely. So is that healthy? A society allows us to think that some drugs are okay and some are not. What about, you might have heard the Wolverine stack, BPC 157 or TB 500? These are peptides that promote healing. You heal probably twice as fast as not using them. So if you're an MMA fighter and you and you hurt your Elbow, your wrist, whatever, and you can heal faster. That's going to allow you to get back to training and you can have more of a performance and anti benefit.

• 6:37Speaker 01

  Then we have, for example, peptides that increase your IGF one levels. So you can build more muscle, have a muscle look a little bit fuller, recover faster. And so those are fairly safe, but depending on the country, they're, they speak against it.

• 6:48Graham Stephan?

  So if you had two twins, one is natural, one took peptides or steroids. Over three years, what sort of difference would you see between the two, assuming they're working out and eating the exact same?

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness. So it could be 30 pounds of muscle in three years. The difference, HRT alone typically, and I've coached hundreds of people to do this. Usually around eight to 10 pounds of muscle in a year from HRT. That's at doctor prescribed levels, not like crazy doses, not 500 or a thousand milligrams. Just a typical dose. If I stopped my HRT, I think I would lose 10 pounds of muscle in a year. If I went completely cold turkey, no more, no more steroids, which is testosterone. If I stopped and my dose is 140 milligrams a week, I would probably lose 10 pounds in a year. And if, if you started, you probably, well, you're a little bit of, it's kind of a percentage. What's your body weight, like 140, 150?

• 7:36Graham Stephan?

  130, 135.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  So probably not going to be eight to 10, but I bet you gain six, seven in a year at a low dose prescribed by a doctor. So significant. Peptides would be less.

• 7:47Graham Stephan?

  What if your testosterone is already high and you just bump it up even more?

• 7:51Speaker 01

  You would still be a little bit more muscle, but of course it would be have to be at a higher level. So if you, let's say you're pushing a thousand nanograms per deciliter, which would be significantly like high, like way above average. And you take steroids at low doses and it's only enough to keep you at a thousand. It's not going to make as big a difference as you bump it up to 1500, but it will still make a difference because the normal person's testosterone levels go through highs and lows. So for example, if you don't sleep for a day or two, because you're stressed out, you're working, your testosterone levels go down. You're not going to build as much muscle versus somebody like me. My testosterone levels are always high because I'm on exogenous testosterone prescribed by my doctor.

• 8:25Graham Stephan?

  When did you first get introduced to steroids?

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I was in my early 30s and I had already competed 42 times naturally. I was, I started competing in the 140s and by the end of it, I was competing in the 170s. And I wanted to be an IFBB pro. And so after, after a few years, I was very, very much declining in my gains. I would say I averaged probably three pounds of muscle a year for a very long time.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  Then the last year or so, I was like, I don't think I'd put on any muscle, maybe one pound. And at that point, I won the Canadian Drug Tested National Championships. There was no pro cards for that. And I said, I want to be an IPB pro. So I started taking steroids. Three years later, I was a pro. Probably put 25 pounds of muscle difference, I would say, between the two looks. A lot of, I do a lot of before and after transformation. I'll show them on my wall. I'll say, this is when I was natural, at my best. This is me enhanced. There's hardly any difference. I'm like, oh, my goodness, there's so much on stage. It's night and day difference. Like, if you put on even 15 pounds of muscle, you would look like you're on steroids, for sure.

• 9:56Graham Stephan?

  In the untested category, any bodybuilder, would you say they're all doing performance-enhancing drugs?

• 10:01Speaker 01

  Untested, I would say probably 90% are using steroids. Now, I was a guy that was competing in untested bodybuilding shows, and I was winning. But I had amazing genetics. And I don't say to brag, I'm basically saying, hey, I'm taking the power away from me. I was lucky that my genetics allowed me to look a certain way, that even at 155 pounds, I looked better than a lot of the guys who weighed 200 pounds.

• 10:23Graham Stephan?

  It's interesting, Ronnie Coleman said the exact same thing, that he credits a lot of his ability to pure genetics, that he is like the best of the best of the best.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:30Graham Stephan?

  Combine steroids with that, and you could be the top in the world. And he competed for a long time without use.

• 10:36Speaker 01

  I believe him. And I would say, me at my best with steroids, at my best, would get destroyed by him 100% natural. I fully believe that. There's another example, like Chris Bumstead without steroids. Now, unfortunately, he started at 18, which is sad to see, because he's such a young guy. And unfortunately, he's such a great guy, but he's a negative influence to the people of the world who saw him at 18 take steroids, because who doesn't want to be Chris Bumstead? Or like Sam Sulek? So these guys started so young. But see, Bum, Chris Bumstead with no steroids, would still look ridiculous. And so imagine he had never taken steroids and been famous and been a natural guy. Almost everyone would look at him and say, you're on steroids. I would do a natty or not on him, and I would say, let's see. Show me him at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, and if he had that normal progression,

• 11:21Speaker 01

  I'd say this guy's natural. But if you all of a sudden see that one year where they put on twenty, thirty pounds, it's like, okay, now I got you.

• 11:28Graham Stephan?

  What's the worst horror story from steroids you've seen?

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Personally, I dated this girl fifteen years ago. She was a bikini competitor and she got into competing, was doing great, decided to use Anavar fifty milligrams a day, fifty milligrams.

• 11:43Graham Stephan?

  What exactly does Anavar do?

• 11:44Speaker 01

  It builds muscle. It's every steroid is an anabolic steroid. Steroids are anabolic androgenic steroids. Anavar is less androgenic, which means it causes virilization, turns you more into man, deeper voice and all that stuff. She's fifty milligrams. She put on twenty something pounds of muscle. She went from bikini into like the bodybuilding division. So she was huge, like, put on so much muscle and no real negative side effects. The voice was normal. There was none of the facial hair, none of the downstairs growth, let's call it. So, hmm, I'm immune. And so after that, you get that dopamine rush of, hey, I got second place at this show. I got first place at this show. Then you want to keep going. And so from that point, now I'm going to push all in.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Then comes the testosterone, the DECA, the D-ball at higher doses. And all of a sudden, I'm like, what? I only dated this person for six weeks. What? What's wrong with your voice? What's going on with your face? Like facial hair growth, the acne bursting through the skin, getting on a bar, squatting and seeing blood from the acne busting. Gross. Like this is just disgusting. And I'm like, you need to stop. This person just kept pushing it like that, would not stop, passing out in the gym. People were blaming me throughout Canada because they thought I was the one that was giving it to her because I had dated her for a few. Look at Greggy coach. I'm like, I had nothing to do with this. I tried to make her stop. But of course, there's always someone in your corner whispering in your ear, take more, take more. You're going to be the

• 13:06Speaker 01

  best. You'll be Miss Olympia. Just keep going. And so they don't listen. And so this kind of stories happen all the time. It happens everywhere. I do videos on these people all the time to happen at the Miss Olympia show. I mean, that's horrendous, but there's worse stories. There's people who die.

• 13:20Graham Stephan?

  And what happened to her?

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Well, she ended up getting into OnlyFans at one point. I haven't heard from this person in years. She ended up using, I believe it was math. And just being like, I mean, just, just a mess.

• 13:30Jack Selby?

  Like, do you think, do you think that her lack of like logic and reasoning skills was a product of this PED abuse? Or do you think that it was something that she probably had for a long time that led to the PED abuse? That got maybe exacerbated by that and then went to the meth and everything?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  When you take steroids as a man or as a woman, it changes your mind. Like you really become a different person. I've talked to many women like this, men, men already have higher levels of testosterone, 10 or 12 times higher than women. And so when she took testosterone and it was testosterone and other drugs, she probably had more testosterone than me, a lot more. She was fighting people at the bar, fistfights. And it's like, whoa. And then you start winning and you want to win more and you just can't think rationally. You become more aggressive, you become like hyper masculine and it changes a person. You're no longer feminine. Like a lot of people think men and women, we're all the same, let's all be equals. We're not equals, we're different people. Men and women are not the same and nor should they be the same. But in society today, we try to treat people like, no, let's all treat everyone the same. We shouldn't be treated the same.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  So a woman with male hormones becomes more of a man and this creates a downward spiral. And I do think that that's one of the causes of what, what led, what led her to do all these things.

• 14:37Graham Stephan?

  What are some of the biggest mistakes people make if they do decide to take steroids?

• 14:42Speaker 01

  The first mistake I think they do is taking too much.

• 14:45Jack Selby?

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• 15:03Graham Stephan?

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• 15:17Jack Selby?

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• 16:10Jack Selby?

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• 16:20Graham Stephan?

  Thank you so much, Peterson Academy, for sponsoring this podcast.

• 16:24Speaker 01

  Many people think that they should take, for example, 500mg of Test and Trend, because that's what such a person took. Well, I'm gonna take this. The babyest of smallest of doses would make a significant difference, but people want all the gains right now. And so they see the best transformations in the world. The guy's put on, say, 20, 30 pounds of muscle in like, three months. And so when they take steroids and they don't put on 10 pounds, they're like, well, what's wrong with me? And they take much too high of a dose. Second thing is, they take too many different steroids, rather than just saying, I'm just gonna only take testosterone, or I'll only take Anabar. They take several things at the same time, very high doses. And they do these steroids for way too long. And what do the average person think? They think, well, I'll just do it. And I watched Chris Bumstead win.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  I would've hurt him, he's a millionaire. I watched Sam Sulek get 5 billion followers, and he just won his pro card. Does he go on or off? We don't know. So who's actually outspoken? Who talks about this? I did. I talked about everything that happened to me. And what happens? You're a bad person, Greg, because you took steroids, and you tell this, and you promote it to people. I'm like, I do the opposite. I think I've done more to be anti-steroid than almost anyone. But yet, people will criticize me for being open. Well, just don't talk about it. Well, if they talked about it and expressed the negative things that happened, I think that would be way better.

• 17:41Jack Selby?

  What would happen if you took someone that didn't go to the gym? They don't diet and they started taking steroids?

• 17:47Speaker 01

  They've done these studies and so this is actually confused people because they gave them 600 milligrams of testosterone and they said, "Don't train and take it. What will happen?" And the thing is, they all gained a lot of weight, 10, 15 pounds. And so they said, "Oh, see, steroids build muscle without working out." But the problem is, it gains weight. Doesn't mean it's muscle. Water weight, for example, use a DEXA scan and you're up 10 pounds, but you're bloated. Like when I took steroids, my face was like a moon face, like I was puffy. I had the ripped six pack, single-digit body fat, perhaps the same leanness as now, but I looked fatter in the face. And so when people take steroids and they don't work out, they gain a lot of weight, but it's mostly water weight. And the problem is, as soon as you stop, you lose that weight. And so if you do take steroids and don't train, you're not really gaining anything from it whatsoever, aside from, you know,

• 18:31Speaker 01

  some of the problems that come. Of course, some positive side effects could be like your improved sex drive or ability to concentrate, work harder, that goes up. But as far as just building muscle, you need a stimulus for muscle growth to occur.

• 18:43Jack Selby?

  Are steroids always bad? Is there anyone who should be taking them?

• 18:46Speaker 01

  Steroids are not always bad. For example, I need to take them. Now, is it my own fault? Yes, I used steroids for probably about 10, 11 years and then I stopped. And the doctor said, "You know, your testosterone levels are in the toilet." I had 47 nanograms per deciliter in one test, another test 49. Normal male is like, say, 250 to 1,000 or so. So I was more like a female. And because of that, my sex drive was horrible, hard to get, uh, hard to get erections, hard to sleep well, hard to concentrate. You feel like garbage, you feel aches and pains, you're more moody. You just don't feel good, you don't feel right, you don't feel like you should. And so anyone that takes steroids for an extended period of time and then stops, you're going to go through this period where you feel like Superman when you're on them. But when you go off of them, it's the opposite effect.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  I compare it to, you get drunk and you feel really good and it's amazing. Then the next morning, you wake up and you're hungover with a headache. As good as you feel on the steroids, the opposite's gonna happen when you get off.

• 19:40Jack Selby?

  So if those are all of the negative consequences of having low testosterone, what are some natural ways someone could increase their testosterone?

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Natural ways to increase testosterone, there's not the, not the greatest. Amount of of things you can do, you're gonna need to get enough sleep. So most people have normal levels of testosterone if they didn't do stupid things. So partying, doing drugs, drinking, staying up all night, being extremely stressed out, going on crash diets. So not having a healthy diet, like not eating enough vitamins, minerals, or just starving yourself, not eating. A lot of people that have low levels of testosterone, they're bodybuilders, they they diet down to say 5% body fat, or they suffer from anorexia. That caused their testosterone levels to go down. So if you don't do all those things, you're likely going to feel and feel pretty healthy. It's rare that a body, a person actually needs testosterone replacement, maybe say 1 or 2% of the population.

• 20:30Jack Selby?

  What percentage of the top level bodybuilders would you say have eating disorders or some sort of body image issue?

• 20:38Speaker 01

  Um, well, even I did this research back in my university days, and it was like 25% of athletes involved in weight classes have eating disorders, whether it's bulimia, anorexia, and so on. That's in a weight class, like wrestling, uh, fighting, any kind of boxing, 25% of those. In bodybuilding, you're being judged on your appearance. And so it's much higher than that. And so I'm gonna go and say roughly 50% of the people that I would have coached or I know of have disordered eating behavior, whether you want to call that an eating disorder or not, it's extremely prevalent. It's horrible. Um, it's like when I hear a person very excited to be a bodybuilder, I'm always thinking now that I'm older, I'm like, okay, this is great. I love the

• 21:19Speaker 01

  sport, but I am concerned because I know that once you get into it and you see yourself shredded, like you say, you're a normal guy, you're like 20% body fat, you're not bad, you might almost have abs. Then you diet down and you're shredded and you got the oil on and you and you diet it and you're just amazing. And then everyone's like, wow, look at your abs, you look amazing. Then you go off of that and you gain back the weight and might only go to 15%. You're 20 here, you get down to five, you go back to 15. You always remember five. You always remember all the compliments you You don't remember, well, I used to be 20 or 15. You compare yourself to your best. And so that's one of the biggest problems with using steroids or competing is that you will remember you on that day on stage. And then you're triggered and that's when the eating disorders come from remembering how you used to look.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  You look in the mirror and you're like, I don't like how I look anymore. I remember how I was. And then it's a constant battle of starving yourself, doing cardio. I mean, I, just as early as yesterday, a guy wrote me, he's like, I'm doing a hundred minutes of cardio bike on the bike a day. And I'm eating 2,000 calories a day. And I'm not lean enough. I'm like, show me a picture. He's like 5'8" and weighs 135 pounds. And it's like, well, you look healthy, like, but you really need to do all this? And that happens to, I would say 50% of people.

• 22:31Jack Selby?

  How do you draw the line between dedication and disorder?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  I think that it's when it negatively affects your life. And so I've been accused of having an eating disorder for years. I watched my YouTube videos. People made YouTube videos about it. You eat from your cookbook, you're eating all these vegetables and fruits and high volume meals and look at you biking. And I'm like, I love all this. It's fun for me. I enjoy it. I look forward to every time I bike. I was riding the bike an hour this morning. I rode the bike an hour yesterday. I can't wait. It makes me happy. I enjoy it. I like the foods that I eat. But if I felt negative, if I couldn't take my shirt off at any time in the day, if I couldn't take a photo and I had to say, can you take 10 photos of me and I'll delete the nine that don't look good and I'll post that one? I could take my shirt off right now, stick my stomach out and stand in front and wave at the camera and say, hey, it's me.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I'm happy, but if I couldn't do that, if I couldn't go to the pool unless I skipped lunch, you know how many people like, they diet down to go to Mexico? I'm like, I'm just showing up. You're like, what do you mean? I'm like, you think I'm going to do all this so I can look good at the beach in Mexico? I already look good. I look better than 99% of people, so I don't have that. But most people don't like their bodies, no matter how good they are, like Sebum. Do you think he likes his body right now? He thinks he's a skinny bitch, like he literally does. He's lost 20 pounds of muscle. He's like, man, I look like this in Prague. I look like this at the Olympia. Now it's like, I can't train his other shoulder. He's got a shoulder injury. It's like, he doesn't like it. He wants that body. And so no matter how good you are, it's never enough.

• 23:57Jack Selby?

  So I've seen these TikToks of these street interviewers going up to different girls in the party scene and they show them four different images of.

• 24:04Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the HouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 24:33Jack Selby?

  Different body fat percentages.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, theHouseMajorityPac.com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 25:04Jack Selby?

  And one is like super lean, and then it gets to maybe like, you know, 15%, and 20%, and like 25%. They ask these girls, "Which one do you think is the most attractive?" And none of them ever say the completely shredded one, like the super muscular, like probably gym goer, seven days a week. Do you think that after a certain point of having a bodybuilding physique, you're really getting more of your attention from men?

• 25:28Speaker 01

  The first thing is never ask a woman her opinion because she doesn't know what she's talking about. That's the first one. This is true. So, they, they said, they showed Seabum's picture in the offseason. He was 10 or 11%. What do you think of this? Dad bod. They said he had a dad bod. I was on Myron's show with the, with those girls. I don't know what it's called. And they said, "Yeah, we like dad bods. We don't like bodybuilders." And then I turned to the woman, I said, "So what do you think of me?" She's like, "Yeah, you have a good dad bod." I'm like, "I'm a professional bodybuilder. What are you talking about?" And so that's the problem.

• 25:59Jack Selby?

  She's saying that to go viral. She's, there's no-

• 26:02Speaker 01

  They didn't know.

• 26:03Jack Selby?

  But you know what? Sometimes you hear women where they say, "How much does a man need to make?" And they're like, "Oh, $500,000 a year." Or like, "I've seen so many, $1 million a year." They have to-

• 26:13Graham Stephan?

  Make minimum to date them.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  A woman wants a hundred grand as a minimum. That's the average salary, right?

• 26:18Jack Selby?

  I refuse to believe that.

• 26:20Graham Stephan?

  It's a perception thing. I don't think so.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  They do not. Women have no clue what they want. They want a dad bod, but the dad bod's Jason Momoa. They do. I've seen it. It's not BS. Women have no clue what they want. They also want a man who's gonna treat them like a princess and do this and do that. I'm like, no, you don't. This is, they don't want them what they want. Have no clue. And so what do these women want? I'll tell you what they want. They want between 10 and 12% body fat ideal, 5%. It's getting kind of extreme. They don't really want that. Now, some do. Girls who are in the fitness industry, like bikini models, competitors, girls who like really are into working out, they like that because that's your circle. Like my circle is like my friends, half of them are on steroids, half of them are jacked. The girls the same way. And so they're used to this, but the average woman doesn't

• 27:04Speaker 01

  need a guy who's like 5% body fat. Like I'm at 8%. So they don't need this, but 10 to 12? One in a hundred men are at 10% body fat. So the ideal is 10 to 12. So the top 95% of men, that's what they want. Now, do they want 5%? The one in a thousand? No, that's a bit extreme. Chris Bumstead on show day shredded. They don't need that. They just want Chris Bumstead as a dad bod in his off season, like the way he looks right now. You know, 245 pounds, six foot one, jacked. That's what they want.

• 27:34Jack Selby?

  So if you were to go walking on a cruise with your shirt off or something like that, how many compliments would you say you get on your physique in one hour? And how many from guys and how many from girls?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  I would say 90% of compliments are from men, and I'm being generous. It's probably 95% men. And it depends. Like most people that compliment me now, they already know me from YouTube and stuff. But if I'm going back to when I was younger, it's almost all men. And maybe not so much at the beach, but at the bar. It would be continuous all night. Wow, look at a physique. Every time I go to his washroom, men, men, men. How many girls? I've only been like grabbed in the ass by like maybe three girls in my life at a bar, hardly ever approached. And so if you're thinking you're developing a body to get girls, it's not. You're gonna get lots of dudes though. But if so, if you're optimizing to get girls, what would be the ideal physique? I would say your size, but leaner, like not jacked, like I'm, I'm about 190.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  If I was 160, like lean like this, it'd be very good. Like, there's no way you need this much muscle. Um, a, a great looking, natural physique, like the pinnacle top form natural who's trained for 10 years. That's probably what girls are looking for. Very lean, aesthetic, they don't care about the massive size, but definitely if like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna bullshit the guys. Girls will like you more at 10%, 12% than they will at 20 for most people. And so if you're trying to look max, getting a six pack, but not having veins, not being crazy and not having steroid size, that's important. I've always said this before, but Brad Pitt from Fight Club has always been my ideal, like aspiration body type is that. And I would say that women don't need that lean.

• 29:11Speaker 01

  He was in the 140s. How tall is Brad Pitt? 5'10". And he was in the 140s. Give or take. Not huge. But lean though. But definitely lean, but like, you don't need to be that lean, but certainly 10 to 12 is a great look for most men. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's that beach body. You definitely have a six pack, but you're not like so crazy that your chest is dried in. It's like, it's like ridiculous. It was interesting after Brad Pitt, I think it was either Justin Bieber, his body, or David Beckham was like the next one up from that. Cristiano Ronaldo. Yes, he's highly sought after that physique, absolutely. And you know what's funny? Of course you can get that physique, natural, but most can't.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Most can't, most people can't get a David Beckham or, or Cristiano Ronaldo physique while being natural. The, but with steroids and a very good diet, or perhaps some Ozempic and GLP-1, and you starve yourself with steroids? That's probably what you're gonna look like, like that level of physique. And so the problem is, most people think if I take steroids, enough of them, I'll probably look something like this, or maybe like Sam Sulek, roughly somewhere around there. But the problem is 90% will be way underdeveloped from what they expect. And so, you know, I used to sell steroids, I know what guys were taking. And so they were just not nearly as Satisfied and I would say 50% of them if they took their shirts off and you looked at them, you couldn't tell they worked out and you're thinking, well, why would they use steroids? Because they wanted you to think they worked out.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  They wanted to be able to one day go on the beach with their shirts off and have their wife, their girlfriend, look at them and be like, oh, you're kind of cute. You're kind of hot.

• 30:43Graham Stephan?

  But why do everything else other than just workout and diet? It just seems like that would be the easiest thing to do. And if you're optimizing for women, which I bet a lot of guys, they say they they do it for themselves.

• 30:54Speaker 01

  I would say 90% are lying. They're doing it to get girls. Same as the girls.

• 30:58Jack Selby?

  But if, but then what happens if they get their wife and they just like, why don't they just throw their physique out the window then?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Well, to start with, like, girls say they don't put makeup on for other people for themselves. This is 100% bullshit. How many people get home from work and then put on makeup to sit and watch TV for themselves? Nobody does that. And so men that are just not, do it for me. They're doing it so that I can feel good about the compliments for getting from men and for women. And so most people that are training are not doing it for their health. Steroids are not good for your health. Anyone that takes steroid, any bodybuilder, I don't care if it's C-bomb, if it was myself, any person that takes steroids other than prescribed from a doctor is doing something unhealthy. I would say it's equal to being morbidly obese. So when I was taking steroids, it's the same thing like smoking cigarettes or or being 300 pounds of fat.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  It's not healthy. So if you're going to the gym for yourself, who goes to the gym to be less healthy, to live less long? And so if you're taking steroids, automatically not healthy. So when people go to the gym and and take steroids and try to look a certain way, I think almost all are doing it to be more attractive. Attraction is more important than health.

• 32:01Graham Stephan?

  How often are you wrong about your callouts? Where you've said someone's not natty, but it turned out you were wrong.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  I've done three videos in my lifetime and probably done 100 posts of natty or nots where I said, oh, I was actually wrong. So I'd say almost always I'm right, but I definitely have made errors.

• 32:17Graham Stephan?

  Do you ever feel bad about calling someone not natty when when they are?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  That's why I make the videos like I had Lex Little, I did that on. There was another powerlifter. I'm like, do I feel bad? Yes, of course.

• 32:30Graham Stephan?

  What about, do you, do you have any remorse or feel bad calling people out who might not want to be called out? Or maybe they're just like, oh, shit.

• 32:37Jack Selby?

  Like they don't want to attract any attention to themselves or something like that.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  That's a good question and I I can empathize with why they don't want to do it. So for example, sometimes I'll say, well, why do you think they're not admitting it? Like The Rock doesn't say he's on steroids, but we all know he is. And like, why doesn't he do that? Well, I don't know if he would have the same acting career and I think that they justified in themselves that if he were to say he's on steroids, same as like Mike O'Hern. If they come out and admit that they're on steroids, I think that they've justified it in themselves that, well, this would be worse because then if everyone in the world knows The Rock's on steroids, maybe he thinks other people would use steroids, but I think it would do the opposite. I think if people said, wow, The Rock's on steroids, this guy's on steroids, Chris Hemsworth, or any of these guys, like famous guys came out and said they're steroids, people's bar would be lower. Because if I'm a 20-year-old, like, and I'm

• 33:24Speaker 01

  growing up and I'm watching Hulk Hogan and all these guys on steroids and I'm thinking, yeah, I want to look like that, they would never use steroids. But if they, if we knew that all these celebrities, actors and so on, were on steroids, people would say, oh, that physique isn't a normal physique to achieve natural. So I think that we need a paradigm shift in thinking where people actually come out and admit it. The Rock says, you know what, guys? I actually been taking tests, I've been taking tren, I've been taking peptides, and I have body dysmorphia, I can't handle not looking good, I need this. And then people who, you know, worship The Rock would be like, wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know men felt this way, that they felt the need to have that much muscle. Because imagine the pressures. It's completely changed in the last 30 years. Before, it was just mostly women. When I was a kid growing up, I didn't feel pressure I had to look

• 34:08Speaker 01

  a certain way. But look at social media now, it's like there's the same amount of pressure on a male to look good as a woman, and almost worse. Women, they need breast implants and whatnot, but they don't have to put on muscle. Men, they need a drug to look the way that women want them to look.

• 34:20Jack Selby?

  Do you think that virtually all A-list actors that get shredded for a certain job take some sort of performance-enhancing drug? Like, what about like Tom Holland, for example? If you know who Tom Holland is, he got jacked for Spider-Man, you think he's on something?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Tom Holland, I would have to, like, honestly, I know he is, but I, I don't, I didn't see a crazy transformation that he made. Like, I don't remember it, I'd have to see it. But I would say, I would say it's 50/50 that, for example, he would have, and I would say 50/50 that almost any Hollywood actor that has any kind of importance on looking at all aesthetic, at all, even slightly remotely that would be benefited by that, would be tempted to take something for sure. I would say at least 50%.

• 35:01Jack Selby?

  What about Logan Paul?

• 35:03Speaker 01

  Logan Paul, I would say he's not natural.

• 35:05Jack Selby?

  Pretty confidently?

• 35:06Speaker 01

  I would confidently bet that he's not, yes.

• 35:08Jack Selby?

  Who is the biggest fraud that you exposed?

• 35:10Speaker 01

  I mean, who's the bigger fraud? Is it Michael Hearn or is it The Rock? Is it the guy that plays Thor? Is it a famous? And how do we decide who's the biggest fraud? Is it Dan Lin Bailey? Is it a female? Is it a male? Like, I don't know how we quantify who's the bigger fraud. Somebody that lies about it every day or somebody who has the most followers? Like, I would say-

• 35:29Jack Selby?

  I would say lies about it every single day, through their teeth.

• 35:31Speaker 01

  Oh, the Michael Hearn is the most notoriously famous person that is exceptionally, obviously lying that's on steroids. I think that he's justified in his head that he can't just admit it. I almost think that he's like convinced himself because there's no way he's natural. I would bet my life against $1 that he's not natural. There's no way he's natural. But I think that he's in his 50s and it's like, what's the point? It's a joke. It's like part of me now. I think maybe he's justified and said, well, if I come out and say that I'm a fake natty for all these years that, well, maybe kids will think that they should use steroids. So I'm gonna lie for their benefit. Like, I think people justify, like, no one wants to lie. When you ask somebody a question straight up to their face. Like, when I talk to people face on, like, I'm talking to you, let's say you're on steroids. I'm on the iron steroids, they'll kind of like, um, well, what makes you think? My friend, they don't want to say no.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Like, if you say, Greg, are you on steroids? I say, yes, I'm on 140 milligrams. I can look at you in the eye and say it. But when people are lying, they tend to not want to lie. So I can tell oftentimes by body language when I meet somebody in person. I'm like, you've been saying you've been natural or not? And I look at them in the eyes and I just ask them and nine out of 10 times you can tell. It's like, we were talking about the Shin, Shin Dim show-

• 36:36Jack Selby?

  Shin Lim.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Shin Lim in the opening act and he had people in the audience. And one of the parts of the act was he, he said, you're gonna draw a picture and I'm gonna predict which three people drew those pictures. I was from behind and I looked and I said, her, first picture, her and her. And I got it right, three in a row, did I not? And it was like, you can tell by how people act. People don't want to lie. And so, people that are lying about being natural, you can kind of tell in the way they answer the questions. And so sometimes, I'll just look at how they respond or how they'll answer a question in a video and I'll be like, that's a liar, I can tell.

• 37:07Jack Selby?

  If you could have confirmation on one influencer, whether they're taking something or they're not, who would it be?

• 37:13Graham Stephan?

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• 38:08Jack Selby?

  If you could have confirmation on one influencer, whether they're taking something or they're not, who would it be?

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Confirmation, I mean, the ones that I need confirmation, I don't need it. Like, I would want Mike O'Hern to come out and say that he's not natural. In the fitness industry, he's the most famous one, the most enjoyable to say, here's proof. But I don't need proof. I would bet my life against all of ours in this room. We're all going to die if he's not, I know he would fail. And Mike, and The Rock, 100%, I know for certain, I would swear on the Bible, I would bet all our life, I would bet my families, I, there's no way this guy's natural. And so do I, but I would love to have the proof, then I could say, here. Because then people would know, and I think The Rock would make the biggest difference in Hollywood, because he has, what, 500 million followers? I mean, that would be a huge difference. And Mike O'Hern in the fitness industry, I think that would make the biggest difference.

• 38:59Graham Stephan?

  What do you think is one of the biggest scams in the fitness industry that people are just unaware of?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  Uh, that it's not calories in, calories out to lose weight? I think that the people that are like trainers are trying to trick people into this different ways to lose weight. Like, if I eat 2,000 calories of licorice a day, I'm gonna get ripped, for sure, because it's not enough calories for me. And so I think that's a huge scam, that it's not that. That if you eat carnivore, or keto, or don't eat carbs- After midnight that there's just something gonna happen if all you eat is butter that Sam No, you need a calorie deficit to lose weight. To me, that's the biggest myth.

• 39:31Graham Stephan?

  Which influencer, if they're natty or not, came out would have the biggest downfall?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  And natty or not that they came out. I wonder, I debated if it was actually Michael Hearn and I don't think it would hurt him that much. I think it would actually bring more popularity. I think that all the people that have come out, for example, Alex Eubank was a huge natural influencer, over a million followers. And he ended up going on HRT. Now, previously, I've accused him of being a fake natty, of which I still think it, I still consider myself friends with him. I talk to him, I help him as much as I can. And so even though he's a fake, like, I don't dislike people who are fake natties. Like, I'm thinking, if I was in the same circumstance, would I not do the same thing? And it's like, you can't judge what somebody does unless you were given that exact same situation that you'd be in. When he went out and he said, look, I'm on HRT, 200 milligrams prescribed by my doctor. He had a spike in views because people are now talking about him. And so

• 40:21Speaker 01

  I don't know if it would hurt anyone. Like, let's say if somebody really natural, like Will Tennyson, maybe, maybe Will Tennyson or like, no, I don't even know it would. He's so well, I think that anyone that would come out and admit that they're taking something. Now, I'm just to be clear, I'm not using Will Tennessee being a fake neck, but like, in case people are like clipping it and thinking it. So anyone that would say, you know what, I decided to do this. I think everyone would respect that. I think people respect honesty so much at this point because hardly anyone is honest. I think that if they were to come out and be honest, I think everyone would be a net positive. Every single person, I think, would be overall better.

• 40:55Graham Stephan?

  When did you start getting into fitness? And at what point did you start taking it to the next level?

• 40:59Speaker 01

  I mean, at 10, I was lifting weights with my dad and my twin brother in the basement and following a three day split, doing sets of six reps for each muscle group and taking it serious, like really serious. You did that for six months. My dad hurt his arm doing curls. And then I wasn't allowed to train. So, but my parents were school teachers, so I, I got home from school earlier, so I lifted weights in the basement in secret. And I mean, At thirteen, I was benching like two hundred and thirty pounds. I weighed about one twenty something. So I was like a little guy with a lot of strength. I was competing at eighteen, like last year in high school. I took it serious at ten, like I was into it, like hardcore, serious at ten. I was into everything, anything I could see personal improvement in myself. I just absolutely loved, whether it was,

• 41:43Speaker 01

  like I was doing triathlons at thirteen. I was swimming, biking, running, competing. Any sport where I could measure myself against myself, I didn't need to beat anyone else. I just loved improving. And so bodybuilding was just like a personal journey to see, I want to get more muscle. I want to get stronger. I loved it, every bit of it.

• 41:59Graham Stephan?

  Do you think you were raised that way? Or do you think you were just born like that?

• 42:02Speaker 01

  I think it's born like that. I think more so born than raised. I mean, my family, my, my twin doesn't really compete that much, although a little bit, but he was never into it like I was, but he was more into studying, like my twin, like my twin is like really a genius. He's like, it's super smart. My whole family is really smart, but like he's like at a next level. But I think you just want to be good at stuff. And when you see yourself good at something, you want to keep pursuing that. Like, I think if I was really good at piano, I probably would have done more piano, but I wasn't that good. I wanted to be good at something and I was really good at lifting weights, bodybuilding and strength sports. So I did more of those, but I mean, I was a phys ed teacher for eleven years. I loved all sports. I loved competing, but I didn't care if I won or lost, like really, I could play badminton or basketball. I'd lose, I was like, I would always win the most sportsmanlike award. You think I'd be like athlete or something?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  I would mostly want like the sportsmanlike, because I was just a guy that liked to have fun. I was just really a chill guy, just having a good time.

• 42:51Graham Stephan?

  How does your twin compare to you physically?

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked three hundred fifty thousand Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 43:24Speaker 06

  You sound horrible. Oh, I feel worse. This flu is not playing around.

• 43:29Speaker 07

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• 43:33Speaker 04

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• 43:36Speaker 06

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• 43:40Speaker 07

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• 43:42Speaker 06

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• 43:51Speaker 01

  He's about five foot, three and a half and 138 pounds. He's actually competing at the world championships in Taekwondo in like a couple months. So he's like cutting down to like whatever the weight class, 130 something pounds. He runs, he's quite athletic in terms of running. He beat me in certain sports, he was better than me at hockey, but every other sport is pretty much better than him. But you know, he was very, very athletic, but like more so. Like when we're, I'll tell you the story. When I was like two or three years old, my parents bought us both sippy cups. This is a cup with the lid, because when you're a kid, you're gonna make a mess. Mine said strong on it, his, his said smart. He had a thing with the glasses. And so even back when I was three, I remember associating myself with being this strong kid.

• 44:34Speaker 01

  And he was a smart kid and trust me, he got the highest average. He's like super smart. I would go in the backyard and lift rocks and say, can you lift this rock to my twin? And I could lift the rock and throw it. And I was just so excited about this or deadlift a paint can. My parents are like, you could barely walk and you're deadlifting the gallon of paint. They're like, you're just into it. And so I think you're born with it, like I, because I don't think they raised me to be like, you should lift weights or you should bike race. It just, I naturally want to do these things.

• 44:59Graham Stephan?

  So what's holding people back, the average person, from getting in shape?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  I think that the average person doesn't want it bad enough. And I think that a guy like David Goggins acts like you can just want it, like you can just do it. I actually think it's very much intrinsic or very much internal. Like I do think there's a, a very much a biological adaptation or some like, almost like I'm born with an obsession that makes me want to do it. And I don't think you can just teach that. I don't think I can just convince you to want it as much as me. I posted the other day on my Instagram, I said, if I jumped into anyone's body watching this right now, in a year from now, I would look amazing compared to what you do right now. And I'd look like a piece of shit because you would jump into my body and you'd be like, oh, this is great. And you'd start eating chips. You wouldn't ride your bike every day. You wouldn't watch what you're eating. You wouldn't care about your health. Now, not everyone, but like.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  The vast majority of people would come into my body and waste it. And then they would lose all the gains that I've made. I would jump in their body and be like, wow, I'm 300 pounds now. This sucks. I'm in a calorie deficit. I'm going to ride my bike one or two hours a day. A year for now, that person's in shape.

• 46:00Graham Stephan?

  What's an exercise you see people doing all the time? But it's actually pretty useless.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  Uh, useless. Front lateral raises. That would be pretty useless because most people have overdeveloped anterior delts, front delts, especially guys that are bench pressing and stuff. On YouTube, that's been promoted lately. It's those in bent over rows with 10 pound dumbbells. We're doing this thing. That's pretty useless. It's not heavy enough. That's a very common one. But I think that most people doing any exercise, there is benefit. If you're pushing to failure or going close to failure on any exercise, even if it's done incorrectly, it's probably going to build some muscle.

• 46:36Graham Stephan?

  Why do you think we have an obesity problem? There's been a picture circulating Twitter, which is really interesting. They show a picture in the 1970s of people on a beach and everyone is just like in shape. And then you see now, and it's rare to see someone who's at like a healthy body weight.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Well, there's a few different reasons. The main ones is because we have the invention of the telephone, which has caused us to be more sedentary. We have computers, TV and so on. And so we just sit at our phones. And so rather than moving a lot, we don't move. So that's we exercise less, so there's less movement. The next is there's way more highly palatable foods. As in there's high sugar, high fat foods available everywhere, fast food restaurants and so on. And you combine those two things and it's a recipe for disaster. Like really, if people were to just not have a phone and move more, go for walks more and eat healthier foods, less fast food, 100% of weight loss would happen.

• 47:26Graham Stephan?

  So if someone is overweight, how much of that is purely out of their control?

• 47:29Speaker 01

  Well, I would say it's probably 50 50. It's 50% environmental or like your genetics or whatever. Like it's half and half. It's can you do something about it? Yes. Can you do all about it? No. And so if I said to anyone, like, let's say you were sitting here and talk to me and you're 100 pounds overweight, I would say, look, I wish you could lose 100 pounds. I want to help you. If I had a client, they hire me and I do this all the time. I don't think 100 pounds is realistic for you. And it's hard sometimes to tell them like they hire me all the time. Like here's my dream physique. I want to like, look like this. Probably not gonna happen. I'm like, can we get halfway there? So let's lose 50 pounds instead of 100. If you're 50 pounds overweight, try to lose 25 and keep it there because losing all of it,

• 48:07Speaker 01

  I don't think it's realistic unless you're aided by my, by drugs like a GLP one, like Ozempic or something prescribed by your doctor. The fight to urge of being hungry, like, I don't think people understand. People are skinny. They don't know what it's like to be obese. I do, even though I've never been obese. And why do I? Because when I do a bodybuilding show, I have absolutely no energy. I feel like shit. I'm miserable. I have barely the energy to get out of the bathtub to use the washroom. I can barely shoulder check. I've been in car accidents because I'm too tired to shoulder check driving. Cause the diet is so aggressive to get to four, five percent body fat. And so in my mind, I imagine anyone who's severely obese

• 48:46Speaker 01

  to, to, to diet down to even a healthy weight, let's call it 15%, they probably feel like me when I'm at 5% and that's a miserable life. You have brain fog, you have no energy, you're always starving. Imagine fighting that urge, that hunger urge, like, people don't know what it is to be hungry, like to be truly hungry, like starving, like 5% body fat. You're starving all the time. And so I don't think it's fair to say to somebody who's 300 pounds, just lose 100 pounds. All it's just willpower. Maybe to get to 250, I think that's normal. Like, don't go all in and just eat everything you want, but to go to be lean, the extremes, like you're 300, now you're 210, to get from 210 to 200, the effort required, I don't think it's fair. And so I would never say to them, like, you know, you have to do better. But I also don't think you should just

• 49:28Speaker 01

  give up and just be 300 pounds. There's a difference between eating anything and everything you want and being like the perfect spec specimen of fitness. I don't people, I don't expect people to be like me. Oh, you gotta ride your bike one or two hours a day and eat only lettuce or something. It's just silly. But somewhere in the middle, I think that's realistic.

• 49:45Jack Selby?

  Is being a little bit hungry bad? Or is it, is it totally fine to just like, maybe it's eight o'clock PM, you're like, ah, it's a little bit late to be eating. I'm a little, I'm pretty hungry right now, but it's fine. I'll just go to bed. Like, at what point do you know if it's like, you know, okay versus bad?

• 50:00Speaker 01

  Well, for example, I'm a little bit hungry right now. I didn't eat that much. I want to eat. Now, if, when this is over, I'll definitely eat. Now, if I were a hundred pounds overweight, I would say, okay, how hungry am I? Is it, is it all I'm thinking of? And if it was only on my mind a little bit, I'd say, okay, I can go through it. But the average person that's lean, they don't really ever get hungry and care about it. It's easy for them. Their genetics are so made to be lean. Like basically, everyone has a certain amount of like ghrelin that's released or fat cells. The more fat cells you have, the more ghrelin's released, the harder it is to be lean. And so I think that there's going to be some normal amount of hunger, but it shouldn't be an ever evasive thought. It shouldn't be an intruding thought all the time. If you're always, every hour, thinking about eating all the time, it's not healthy.

• 50:45Speaker 01

  Now, there's things you can do. You can eat a different diet. For example, higher fiber foods, more voluminous, like fruits and vegetables, more satiating foods like proteins. It's just, people don't know what they eat. Like, I don't want to, like, I don't really care about if you people buy my book, but I do have a circle diet book in my cookbook. And it's like, if you haven't tried it, it's a game changer. Like, it's just so much easier to lose weight when the foods have half the calories. I was at the gym this morning doing my cardio and a guy had an example. He said, I, I, I'd hardly eat and I can't lose weight. And it was like 3,000 calories and it was like very calorie dense foods, like nuts and all that stuff, like very dense. The other person's like eating so much food. It was like double the volume but had half the calories. And it's like, no wonder you're losing, like, no wonder you can't lose weight. You're eating too many calorie dense foods, like french fries, chips and stuff.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  But if you eat more fruits and vegetables, it really is easy to lose weight to an extent. After a while, when your drop, body fat drops too low, then it gets hard.

• 51:38Graham Stephan?

  For me, it's really tracking. Like, I say this all the time with finance, that when people say I can't save money, I always say, well, track how much you're making and then track how much you're spending. And every single time, there's little tiny things they don't think about that they just spend money on. It could be, you know, going and getting a coffee, going and buying that little $20 thing. But they do that throughout the week a few times and that adds up. For me, I found myself not losing any weight whatsoever. And I thought I was eating really healthy. And I started tracking what I was eating and like inputting the calories on my fitness tracker or whatever it was. And it was Sauces for me and it was coffee creamers and I was putting in way too much coffee creamer and way too many sauces in foods that I just didn't even think about like spicy mayonnaise

• 52:20Graham Stephan?

  when eating sushi this like little things but yeah throughout the week it would add up and that was my little surplus there that prevented me from losing any weight.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  Think the average person I think it's like thirty two percent of people under report calories by five or six hundred.

• 52:34Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  So most people are saying I'm eating fifteen hundred calories a day and I'm like no you're not. If you're eating that you'd be ripped you'd be peeled there's no way you are but they don't actually track and I think with knowledge comes power and I think most people don't know and are not aware of the calories that they're in the foods that you're eating. So if somebody wanted to lose weight my my first thing is always read labels for everything. Look at everything I'm not saying don't eat the cake don't eat the the sauce but look at it and know what you're putting in your mouth if you look and say wow there's twenty calories per tablespoon and I actually put in eighty calories of ketchup maybe I'll have sugar free ketchup next time which has ten calories that saved you forty. Maybe instead of three hundred calories of of you know Caesar dressing I'll only put half or maybe I'll buy light Caesar dressing instead of that thousand calorie cheesecake

• 53:16Speaker 01

  I'll eat the five hundred calorie other kind of cake instead of Haagen Dazs or Ben and Jerry's I'll have this fruit like it just is small changes like if you still want to eat it go ahead it's no different than like you're saying with finances like am I gonna go and buy a dress without looking at the price for my girlfriend or something I'm like okay this dress is three thousand dollars this one's a thousand I like them about the same I'm buying the thousand dollar dress it just makes sense same applies to food.

• 53:40Graham Stephan?

  So what's the best diet for the average person?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  The average person best diet is eating a lot of fruit and vegetables and having a lot of meat that's lean lean cuts of meat and a lot of yogurt or Greek yogurt or dairy that's low in fat so a high protein high fiber voluminous diet that's the best for most people now does that mean that you can't lose weight on a keto diet or a carnivore? No but for most people they'll be more full by eating these foods and so that's the best diet to follow.

• 54:05Graham Stephan?

  What about the best supplements?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Creatine is probably the one that's been proven to build the most muscle, like maybe one or two pounds. The most unproven, but that's I would bet my life on it is turkestrone from ajuga turkestanica. It's the most popular supplement I sell by far by a long shot. The problem is the research isn't established at this point. And the research that has been done essentially has been done on fake ajuga turkestanica from a plant from China, a copycat plant. And so it's a plant that doesn't have the same profile as the plant that's ajuga turkestanica. And this gives you a lot of energy, helps you build muscle. But anyway, aside from ajuga,

• 54:47Speaker 01

  for building muscle, I would say something that gives you a pump like nitrates or L-citrulline that you have in a pre-pump product. I also think caffeine is highly anabolic because it allows you to train harder. It gives you the motivation. Like if I wake up in the morning and I'm gonna do cardio and I take my caffeine, I might do an hour. If I don't, maybe I only do 30 minutes. If I'm going to the gym, instead of doing maybe 10 sets, I only do five or I only push half ass. So I think caffeine, even though it's not technically building muscle, the caffeine itself, if it motivates you to go to the gym, I think it's gonna build a lot of muscle. On top of that, I would say beta alanine is a strong supporter of building muscle for people that train like higher rep sets,

• 55:26Speaker 01

  like maybe supersets, drop sets and so on. But unfortunately, there's not a ton of actual supplements that make a huge difference. Like we're talking about, these are things that are gonna make 10 to 20% difference from not using them.

• 55:39Graham Stephan?

  What are your thoughts on like artificial sweeteners, diet coke, things like this?

• 55:43Speaker 01

  I'm a huge fan of artificial sweeteners and some people are gonna argue and say no. If you drink a diet pop, it's about 150 calories. I'm sorry, a regular pop, 150 calories for like a, you know, a standard size versus five calories. And so you're automatically consuming less calories. And now some people say, well, that's gonna trigger you to be more, more hungry. Yeah, but even if you added 150 calories, you're still at break even point. Studies have also shown that people who consume like non-calorie sweetened beverages or non, what like zero calorie, like whether it's pop or Kool-Aid or whatever with zero calories. Those people are more satiated and even after the diet's over, they keep more of the weight off in comparison to people who drink water. So if you were saying, if I took a group of a hundred people and said, you 50,

• 56:28Speaker 01

  you can just drink water. You 50 can drink water and you can drink Diet Pop and Kool-Aid. These people will be more satisfied and lose more weight and keep more of it off. So I'm a fan, a huge fan of it.

• 56:36Graham Stephan?

  What do you think are some of the biggest fitness myths out there? Like doing fewer reps, but heavier weights or doing, you know, a lot of reps, working out abs, you know, targeting certain fat loss in specific areas. Like what are the biggest misconceptions out there?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  I see some people posting about burning off stubborn belly fat, as you're saying, like there's not a thing, you can't really spot reduce, you can't just tone your arms by training your arms, it's not going to burn fat off else, off in one spot. I'm kind of drawing a blank on like, what is a fitness? Like almost everything can be a myth that's put out there. I guess let's take a beginner's. Beginners don't need to train very hard to make gains, that you shouldn't just, I see a lot of people, it's like the new program, a 90 day fitness challenge. Day one, they're in the gym and they're training twice a day. And I'm like, why? You just get in there and show up and you're going to do great. And I think that to the opposite extent, the more advanced trainers, I think that some people think that you shouldn't go to failure.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  They're trying to, oh, if you train too hard, it's not good. Or people who are natural think that you shouldn't be training hard, that you have to hold back because you're not natural. And if you're on steroids, that's the ones that train hard. Everyone should be training hard. But yeah, I guess being a beginner, just show up, warm up, enjoy. That's probably the thing. And another myth, taking a lot of steroids isn't going to build you the physique that you want, but you think it will. So most people who take steroids look like bigger people who are overweight. They don't look like ripped guys with six packs. That's just not a thing. Like taking steroids doesn't really make you look like you're a lean aesthetic body. Obviously puts on a lot of muscle. But a lot of muscles do with that added fat.

• 58:18Jack Selby?

  If you were to design a perfect, no excuses hypertrophy plan for a beginner, how would you do it?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I would ask them what they like to do and I would try to design it as close to what they like as possible because the perfect plan is not the one that scientifically is said to work the best. It's the one that they're most likely to do and enjoy because enjoyment is the number one factor. If you enjoy a program, you're going to keep doing it. If you don't like it, you're not. Anyone can do a 30 day or 90 day triathlon. Anyone can run for that long. Anyone can follow a diet for 30 to 90 days, but you have to love your training program and your diet to keep doing it for life. Like I wouldn't ride a bike if I didn't love it. I used to do it when I was a kid and I do it again now. If I didn't like the meals in my cookbook, I wouldn't eat them. I would want just eating normal pizza.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  But because I like what I'm eating, I can keep doing it. So really people need to focus on the enjoyment factor. And all these studies that are out there, like no matter what study it is, it's based on, say there's a thousand people. It's the average that they're proving. They prove this works. Well, it doesn't mean it worked for everyone. It's the average person is benefiting from. So you don't know. You might be a person that benefits more from doing higher reps. You might benefit from lower reps. The average might need five to 15 reps. You might need 20. It's your, we're not averages. Every person is unique.

• 59:35Jack Selby?

  What about meal timing and fasting? Does it matter if you eat before a workout, after?

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Essentially it doesn't matter at all. There's almost no, there's almost no relevance to it whatsoever now. I do think that eating three to five meals a day is better than eating two or one. Every meal past one, it's gonna like one meal a day. Okay, that's good. Fine. If you eat a calorie maintenance, you can lose, or if you eat less calories, you can lose weight. If you eat more calories, you can, you can gain. Two meals is going to be better. Three is going to be better. Four, maybe a little bit better. Not sure. Five, maybe a tiny bit better. Six, seven, eight, nine, 10, not going to matter. And so long as you spread your meals out and you have protein in all of them, it's not going to matter. So in other words, you don't need to eat during your workout or right after your workout or 30 minutes after your workout or 30 minutes before your workout. More important is you eat when you want, when it feels good for you, because for some people, they don't want to go to the gym.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  With food in their stomach. For other people, they can't go to the gym with food in their stomach. Two opposites. Like if I get up in the morning and try to lift really heavy first thing in the morning, I hate it. I need to eat. Other people, they like to, they like to train fasted.

• 1:00:37Jack Selby?

  How often do you cheat on your diet?

• 1:00:39Speaker 01

  What, what would you call cheating? I would say zero percent of the time because I don't have a thought that if I eat a cookie, that's cheating. So if I eat ice cream, did I cheat? If I eat a cookie, did I cheat? I don't have a diet. I eat. And I think that when I design plans for people, I don't call it cheating. I have off meal plans. So for example, if somebody typically I'll say they're going to eat three meals a day plus one or two snacks. Every meal a day, every meal once a day, I said, you don't have to eat what it says. You can eat anything you want within a certain amount of calories. If you eat more calories than it says, then you eat less snacks. So I don't think of it as cheating. Like I don't think that anyone on any diet shouldn't eat ice cream. Everyone should be able to eat pizza. There's nothing off limits. I don't do diets where you can't eat a certain food. I don't care if you're dieting for the Mr. Olympia.

• 1:01:22Speaker 01

  If I was coaching, and trust me, I've coached competitors, I've coached guys getting pro cards and so on. You want to eat something you can. It's about, it's how much of it you eat. Okay. You want to eat cookies. You're not eating 40. So how often do I cheat? I don't ever cheat because I don't, I don't consider anything that I eat as a cheat, if that makes sense.

• 1:01:39Jack Selby?

  How do you eat healthy while you're traveling?

• 1:01:41Speaker 01

  I like to oftentimes go to a store and buy like groceries and preferably there's a fridge. Now, at the hotel I'm staying at, there's no like special fridge, but almost every single time there would be one. I would go in there and I would get Greek yogurt. I would get chicken. I would get all the things I want to eat. I travel with protein bars and I usually eat like one meal a day at a restaurant, but I typically just buy what's available and I find if you try, you can do it.

• 1:02:07Jack Selby?

  Okay. So there's this thing. So me and my housemates, we always joke because you could go in theory to Little Caesar's and you could get a pepperoni pizza from there. And I think it's maybe like 2100 calories for the entire pizza and it's like 110 grams of protein. If you were to do that and then have a super, super dense. Protein shake, or maybe you had some nonfat yogurt or just egg whites or something like that to get the rest of your protein goal and you're still under 2,500 calories by the end of the day. Is that fine?

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  It's fine, but if you do it long term, it's not going to result in the same physique as eating, for example, vegetables, fruits, because you're going to need the nutrients. So for example, you're beginning inflammation from foods that aren't as healthy, you're not going to build as much muscle. So we're comparing the perfect healthy diet to a shitty diet, but both get enough protein. They're not going to equally get the same results because one could have more cortisol, one doesn't let you sleep as well, one has more inflammation. And so even though they're both at the proper calories and you're still going to gain weight or lose weight, one body's healthier than the other.

• 1:03:11Jack Selby?

  Is it better or worse to obey your diet perfectly for 10 days and then on the 11th day, you eat 5,000 calories?

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  The opposite of what you're, the other one, the other option.

• 1:03:23Graham Stephan?

  Eat a little bit more a day.

• 1:03:24Jack Selby?

  So it's not bad to just have a cheat day where you eat whatever you want?

• 1:03:27Speaker 01

  I think it's horrible to say, I'm going to diet strictly for six days and then one day is my cheat day, which is what most people have. Like I'll watch The Rock. It's like use my cheat day and it's like, there's that much French toast. Or they're like, once a week I go crazy. I'm like, this is stupid. You diet strictly 1,500 calories a day, then you have this one 5,000 calories. Why not take whatever you ate on that 5,000 calorie day and let's take 500 calories extra and let's spread it out over the week. You shouldn't feel the need to cheat. I don't diet and think I can't wait till Friday where I get to do X. Every day I should get to do X. It should be balanced. If you're, if you're feeling like it's not enough, you're not eating enough, then there's something wrong. And when you're a coach and you have a dieting athlete and they're eating, let's say it's

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  1,500 calories a day, they're dining for a show. And then the coach is like, I need a cheat meal on Saturday to reset or whatever. That just means a cheat, the coach fucked up. That's it. The coach messed up. And so they're adjusting that by giving you more calories. So let's say you're eating 1,500 calories a day, then Saturday you need to cheat 3,000. Why? Because you're so lean, you deserve that you earned it. No, the coach is just not going to say, you know what, you should have been eating 1,900 all week and the cheat day should be still 900. The coach says, no, it's 3,000 cheat deal because you're just so good. No, if you're that good, the coach should allow you to eat more all the time. So cheat, cheat meals are the coaches making up for screwing up earlier in the week.

• 1:04:47Graham Stephan?

  Is there a limit to how many calories you could absorb in a day?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:04:51Graham Stephan?

  If it, but so if I eat 20,000 calories in a day, I'm going to gain, if I burn 2,000 naturally, I'm going to gain a few pounds of fat from that one meal.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  You would probably have maybe, let's say 10% of those calories that would just be excreted because it can't be digested at that point, but like 20,000 calories, I mean, we're getting an example of something that I don't think you physically could do. Like I've tried to eat that kind of volume of food. I don't think you could do that. Like there's a very difficult challenge in the YouTube world. It's a 10th, eat 10,000, burn 10,000. Very rare can somebody do it. Now, I don't think that eating 10,000 is necessarily hard. Burning 10,000, if you're fit, it's not that hard. I could do it, of course, but doing it at the same time is hard. But 20,000, no one could do this. And so if you eat 20,000, you're not going to just shit out 10,000 calories and not gain it, but you will not absorb it.

• 1:05:42Graham Stephan?

  I thought there might be a life hack there. Like you could only absorb 10,000 calories a day.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  That's why I thought you could just have one meal where you just like eat whatever you want. And it's like, well, you know, I'm not, it's not calorie for calorie. Trust me, I've binged in the past. I didn't know what I was doing my whole life and I would have some days where I'd eat 10,000. I remember the first bodybuilding show, I tracked all my calories. I remember writing 2,000, 2,200. It was in that range. I'm dining for my first show. And then I went to like a all you can eat pizza and it was 7,000 calories. And then it took me a week to get back to where I was. It's like one meal. Now I screwed up in the whole week. I'm going to have to diet to get back to that. There's no one meal. I'll just like not absorb it. Now, if you develop an eating disorder and you become bulimic, then yeah, you eat 5,000 calories and it's in the toilet, then it doesn't count. Or perhaps you're using laxatives or there's some tricks that people are doing that we don't really want to talk about.

• 1:06:26Graham Stephan?

  Okay, so this is, what about diarrhea? Let's say you eat 10,000 calories and you just got explosive shit afterwards. Do you still absorb all the calories?

• 1:06:36Speaker 01

  No, definitely not. And if you have certain diseases like let's say Crohn's disease, a lot of those calories are coming through. Or I've suffered from different problems where I'm like really sick and you just can't absorb and you're eating foods and it's going through you. You don't absorb all the calories. So like people, it's calories in, calories out. But if I eat a thousand calories and it's nuts and corn and it's not been digested quickly enough and it just goes through me, then the calories out, it's like, well, some of those calories are going out. In the toilet, let's say you eat a thousand calories and 200 or 300 are excreted that way. Well, there's 300 there and then maybe I burn off 500 calories on a bike. It all adds up in certain ways. So, yeah, I mean, there's some foods that are not digested the same. Like even though a food has, let's say, a thousand calories, doesn't mean your body can necessarily

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  get all thousand from them. If it's, if it's coated in something or if there's certain chemicals you're taking at the same time.

• 1:07:28Graham Stephan?

  That would be crazy. Just imagine this, a spray that you spray on the food, like, you know, the, the outside of corn, right? You can't really digest. Imagine a spray you spray on a steak. You eat the steak, but the steak is coated in something that doesn't break down your body. And then, but, but then, but you could eat whatever you want to and then it passes through.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  Well, you're probably aware of like.

• 1:07:47Jack Selby?

  Does it come out in the same form?

• 1:07:49Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 1:07:50Jack Selby?

  Okay, we gotta stop talking. My grandma watches, she doesn't like these conversations.

• 1:07:54Speaker 01

  You know, there's breads that have like ridiculous amounts of fiber that are not digestible. And so they have very low, like they're.

• 1:08:02Jack Selby?

  Like the keto stuff?

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Well, it's, it could be a two, yeah, I guess like a 200 calorie bread. It's got like 32 grams of fiber or 30 grams of fiber. And so those fibers aren't digestible, depending on what type of fiber it is. So a lot of times you are able to eat these more bulkier foods with less calories because it's literally going through your body, can't digest it.

• 1:08:19Jack Selby?

  What would you say are the biggest fast food or just restaurant home cooked meal diet hacks?

• 1:08:24Graham Stephan?

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• 1:09:50Jack Selby?

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• 1:10:56Jack Selby?

  What would you say are the biggest fast food or just restaurant, home-cooked meal diet hacks?

• 1:11:00Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that you should make your own protein ice cream at home. It's been my favorite. I used to have the videos with the ice cream over the head. You use some protein powder and some ice and some fruit, and you blend it up, add some guar gum or xanthum gum to make it really thick, and you're literally eating ice cream. Now, you might have heard like a ninja creamy.

• 1:11:18Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  These are just, for me, these are life-changing diets for me. I cannot believe how satisfying it is and how good it is because my biggest weakness as a cheat is ice cream. As a kid, I would eat two 2-liter's. I've done this a long time. I would just have crazy epic cheats with two 2-liter ice creams. I love ice cream and the fact that I could eat every single night on a diet, a massive like one and a half liter ice cream thing with like the spatula and just go to town and be so full and be like, that was 400 calories. I mean, how, how can you not lose weight versus eating a 2,000 calorie, two liter ice cream, I'm eating 400 calories and maybe it's, it's not as good. It's 80%, but to me that's enough. And now I have the ninja creamy. I have those every single night. To me, that's a huge hack.

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  The second biggest hack that I've had for myself had to be the anabolic French toast. Because people are like, you can't eat bread on a diet. And I'm like, for 20 years, I've been eating these French toast where you don't have the egg yolk and you have the, the, the, the whites and like some cinnamon and sugar twin and maybe put blueberries on it and it's just so good, but it has half the calories of a regular French toast. So you eat till you're full for half the calories. And so how do you not lose weight? You're full on less calories, simple.

• 1:12:29Graham Stephan?

  The ninja creamy is something I've heard so many people.

• 1:12:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've heard so much.

• 1:12:32Graham Stephan?

  Do you recommend that?

• 1:12:33Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, literally every single night I have a ninja creamy now. Now, before I used to have the big blender and I would make it myself. Every night I just put in there, blend and it's delicious. Like it usually has 300 calories, 50 grams of protein and it literally tastes like ice cream and it's about two cups worth. Versus I'll say about a thousand calories for, for like a Haagen Dazs or ninja creamy. So I'm saving 700 calories a night and I'm having 50 grams of protein with that. And so imagine 700 calories times seven, 4,900 calories. You're looking at over a pound of fat a week that I'm losing just by having this change. If, so if I switched and had the regular ice cream, I could literally be gaining over a pound of fat a week. One change.

• 1:13:12Graham Stephan?

  Wow.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  Simple.

• 1:13:13Graham Stephan?

  Okay. Is one gram of protein per pound of body weight, actual science or just bro science?

• 1:13:19Speaker 01

  It, it's probably more than you need, 0.8 grams. I think that they round it off to one, that's the bro science. It's actually 0.8, which is basically anyone that's getting 0.8. If you bump it up to one, unless you're in a calorie deficit, unless you're dieting, it's probably not going to make any difference. So it's just a cooler number. It's easy to remember, but if you weigh 200 pounds instead of 200, if you have 160, you're going to gain just as much as somebody who's, who's 200 pounds. Unless of course you're on steroids or if you're on a crazy low calorie diet, because some of that protein is going to be used for energy at that point.

• 1:13:48Graham Stephan?

  And one of the things when I was doing research for this podcast, you were giving very good dating advice and just relationship advice in general that I thought was very sound. What would you say the biggest mistakes are that young people make when it comes to dating or being in a relationship?

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Well, in terms of dating, meeting a woman, I think people are not themselves, or they think they have to act a certain way that the woman will like. And the problem with that is they're never going to fall for you. Like, if you act like you're cool, or you act like you're this, or act like you're that, it's never going to work because they're falling for not the real you. And then usually three to six months go by and then they find out who you actually are, and then it doesn't work. So you need to be yourself from day one. And don't listen to a woman tell you what she wants. You be yourself. She might say, "Treat me like a princess. Buy me this, buy me that, take me here, take me there." They don't respect that. If a woman changes you, if you change for a woman, they're not going to respect you for that. They want to be with the man that is strong enough to be themselves.

• 1:14:43Graham Stephan?

  Also, I guess another question that leads into that. What gives it away if someone's insecure?

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  How does a woman know if you're insecure? There's no dead giveaway. I don't think that you can fake this. I think that you either are or you're not. I don't think that I can, as an actor, talk to a beautiful woman and be like, "Yeah, I'm just cool." And so what people have to do is, I say, progressive overload your business. Like, literally, no, it might be, I don't know if your show allows these words, but you need to be around women to get used to it. And so if you're a man and you have no self-esteem and you're not confident, you need to start hanging around with girls. Because if all, we're just three guys talking around, we're cool, maybe you're like, "Yeah, Craig's so cool, he's like, he's so himself." Then a woman walks in and it's like, and then you stutter every word because you're not used to it. You get used to hanging around girls who are like, let's say, on a scale of one to 10, they're ones, they're 400 pounds, 300 pounds, whatever.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  You hang around them, you're not intimidated. She's overweight, maybe she's very unattractive, and so you have no trouble with them. You get used to hanging around those girls. Then you get higher, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine. Eventually, if you're a guy who has owned an owner of a nightclub or a strip bar or something, you're hanging around with girls who are very attractive all the time. It's no big deal. So you're naturally going to be the same. But if you only hang around with men and you suddenly go on a date with a beautiful woman, you're not going to know how to act. How you act is the same you do with your bros. The way you and I would talk, if we're best friends, this should be the same way you talk to a girl that you just met. If you start acting different, that's when they can tell. So you have to be yourself, but... Within being yourself, there's your good self and your bad self. Being myself can be shy, being myself can be confident.

• 1:16:19Speaker 01

  Depends on the situation I'm in. If I'm with a bunch of bodybuilders who work out, I'm very confident. I know all about it. But if I start talking about watches and cars and I'm like, don't you drive a McLaren? And you have a watch like, I don't know how much, I don't know, I don't know about it. I'm not very confident because I don't know that. But if I hung around these people all the time and I learn more, it would become comfortable for me.

• 1:16:36Jack Selby?

  So you're saying spend a bunch of time with people of the opposite sex?

• 1:16:39Speaker 01

  Exactly. And start with women who you're not intimidated by. If you're trying to get gorgeous girls, you can't just start by like, I'm just gonna hang around a bunch of gorgeous. You'd be uncomfortable. But if you, like guys who have, maybe they have a sister and their sister would bring their girlfriends over. And they just naturally talk to these people all the time. It's just, it's normal. And so guys are just, in today's day and age, people sit around and game and sit on the computer. When I was younger, you'd talk to people, you'd hang around with people, you were in the real world with people. But now people talk via texting and so on. So when you actually go on a date with a girl, you just don't know how to talk because you don't have any practice doing it. So people have a hard time being themselves.

• 1:17:18Jack Selby?

  It's a good thing I spend a lot of time with Graham because I feel like I get a lot of feminine energy from him. And I can kind of absorb that.

• 1:17:24Graham Stephan?

  I learned that from Jack, just being around Jack so much. His feminine energy really comes over to me.

• 1:17:30Jack Selby?

  What would you say are some of the strongest pillars to a successful relationship?

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  Honesty, communication, people that respect each other. I think the problem is not everyone wants that. I don't think everyone wants their partner to be honest. Does somebody really want them to say, I don't really think you're that attractive. I think you smell bad. I don't think you're cool. So do people really want honesty? So I think people are in relationships and I would say the reason that 50% of people are divorced is because people aren't in the proper relationships to begin with. But do they even want to be in a proper relationship? Do people really want to be with the person that's gonna tell them everything that they think? Like really, think about it. Everything.

• 1:18:07Graham Stephan?

  So where do you draw the line? What do you think is like a good ratio for, you know?

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  I think when in doubt, do it. I think when in doubt, you should do it. It's very difficult because do you really want to say to somebody like, let's say I'm, I'm short, I'm five, six. Do if my girls are really attracted to six foot tall guys, do I want to hear her say like, you know, you're not that tall. I kind of like taller guys. I'm gonna feel like you're shitty, but like if they don't tell you, how do you know what she's thinking? But if you can trust them enough to say things, then they'll be more confident. Well, you know, I really like six feet tall, but man, you got some jacked arms. That's cool, too. And maybe you're not so high on the, on the tall factor, but you got some nice abs. So I think it's better to just be honest and say, well, I prefer this, but like, I love this.

• 1:18:46Graham Stephan?

  How much does height matter?

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  You know, for a woman?

• 1:18:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  It's excessively important for women and you're shorter than me. So it's very important. It's as important as looks like, uh, it's as important money. And actually I did some research on this. Every inch is worth about $30,000 a year. So being five foot six, if I were six feet tall, I would have to make $180,000 to be the same attractiveness as a man who's six foot, just because of my height. So if I were six foot two, I mean, I would be excessively, uh, what do you call it? Like, uh, desirable for women. I have a lot of money and I'm famous. I have muscles. If I was six foot two, huge difference. If I was five foot two, would you date me?

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  No, five foot two, not dating me. I'm a multimillionaire and I'm famous as a five foot two is not happening. What's the minimum height you'd have? Five, four?

• 1:19:34Graham Stephan?

  But when you say, don't ask a woman what she wants because she won't give you the truth. Isn't this an example of that? If you say that, but if you were five foot two, exact same, I would argue she would probably still be dating you.

• 1:19:48Speaker 01

  She would not, but somebody would.

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  Like there's millions of girls out there and the being four foot, let's say, let's go with four foot nine. It's going to be real hard to get some girls, but if you've got millions of dollars, that's worth a lot. We just talked about 30,000, $30,000 per inch. If you're six foot two, it's six foot three, which is the ideal male height to get a girl. You're automatically gonna get more girls. It's just easier. Now, does that mean I can't get a girl because I'm five foot six? No, but if I go on a dating service right now and they don't know who I am and I say, hey, swipe right, five foot six, forty nine years old, next? Who's, who wants to date a forty nine year old guy who's five foot six? Not a lot, but if you say, yeah, famous, millions of dollars, this personality, get to know them first

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  and that's cool. But if you look at just the height parameters on dating sites, most women, eighty five percent not dating guys five foot six. It's auto, like, so I can only get fifteen percent of women. But fifteen percent of a million girls is still fifteen thousand. So fifteen percent of a billion, it's, there's still lots out there. So, but you are significantly reducing the amount of women who are interested in you. But who cares?

• 1:20:56Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  You only need one.

• 1:20:57Graham Stephan?

  So what is your advice to a guy who's under five eight? Who's trying to get a short king?

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Get a hot frigging body and get a lot of money.

• 1:21:06Graham Stephan?

  Now, what about, literally? Now, what about personality wise?

• 1:21:09Speaker 01

  Be yourself again.

• 1:21:10Graham Stephan?

  But I've seen, I've seen some guys who are like five foot six, have nothing going for them, but they are so charming. They're just charismatic, funny, everyone wants to be around them and they have no trouble despite being short and not having money. But it's, but they, they've got the best personality, like you just.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  One thing they are, is they're getting into situations where they meet people, literally. The best personality and charming and ugly and no money is gonna get how many dates with people they don't ask out? Zero. They're going on that dating site, they're getting zero dates. They're not meeting any, but if you go to the coffee shops and you go to the sports teams, you're playing volleyball and pickleball and you're going to the clubs all the time and you're meeting people and you're going to social events, you're gonna meet people and they're gonna be like, wow, you're really cool. I get to know you, but how do you get your foot in the door without, without having something to offer? Like, you need to be able to show them who you are. And so unless you're going to public places where actually meeting people, you're not gonna get to. And the problem is that most men, eighty five percent roughly, they're not gonna ask those girls out.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  They don't dare. They're not gonna go to the gym and ask that girl out. But if you have enough confidence to get rejected, oh my God, you ask enough girls out, somebody gonna say yes. Ask a hundred girls out, guaranteed one gonna say yes, but how many people ask a hundred girls out, even in a year? Do it in a day.

• 1:22:26Graham Stephan?

  Yep. Now, speaking of making money, what is your advice for young people who wanna make a lot of money?

• 1:22:31Speaker 01

  Uh, get good at something and study and work really hard at it. Um, I don't know. I'd like, I, my first thing would be, why do you need to make a lot of money? Cause money doesn't buy happiness and having gone from having less money to a lot of money and having, speaking from experience,

• 1:22:49Speaker 01

  it's not the money that makes you happy, it's the pursuit of, the pursuit of getting better at something. Like, when I consider money at this point, I almost consider like money is like Monopoly. Like, I wanna, if I'm playing Monopoly, I wanna get the most money to win this game. I don't need more money, but it doesn't mean I'm not gonna try, cause it's just like a currency of like improvement, self-improvement. I don't need to try to make more money. Like, I'm not trying to make more money than this person or that person. I just wanna make more for myself, because that's a measure of success. Just like, I wanna get faster on a bike, I wanna lift more on a bench press. So, that's what I'm doing. But, guys that wanna make more money, I would be like, money ain't it. It's not gonna make you happy. But is there anything wrong with trying to make more money? No, but you should enjoy what you're doing. That's the most important. Because if you don't like what you're doing, how long are you gonna do it?

• 1:23:33Speaker 01

  Like, if you, if I liked, if I didn't like making YouTube videos and it makes me a lot of money, how long would I actually do it? I probably wouldn't be doing, you know, 500 videos a year.

• 1:23:42Graham Stephan?

  How is your income broken down? Like, if we looked at a pie chart in terms of what percentage is what?

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  Every year, it's been completely different. Like, when I, when I first started making money, the first time I was making real money, it was from coaching, by far, probably getting around like three quarters of, uh, yeah, like three quarters of a million dollars in a year, from just coaching. And then I was like, okay, how do I, like, scale this up? And I just kept putting my prices up, but then there's only so many people you can coach. Then I put out the cookbook. And then all of a sudden, okay, that was selling so much that I would say 80% of my money was coming from cookbooks. And I says, well, I don't need to really coach people anymore because I'm making so much money from a cookbook. Then maybe one or two years, the sales were really ridiculous. And then, they kinda go down every year. I mean, yeah, I mean, I still sell enough cookbook. Like, if anyone sold as many cookbooks as I had now, they would be super happy.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  Like, I'm making hundreds of thousands a year on just a cookbook. But, like, I was making millions before, so it was way higher. But the cookbook transition to now supplements. So I sell mostly supplements. So I would say my supplements are probably like maybe eighty percent of my income now. YouTube is a good income because I have, I make a lot of videos. So there's, there's a little bit of coaching, a lot of supplements, and then YouTube videos is probably my main source now. But I also have other platforms where I do like Bilibili. It's like a Chinese YouTube and whatnot like kind of thing.

• 1:25:03Jack Selby?

  Yeah. What would you say is the most amount of money you've made in a single day?

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Well, I made a hundred and four thousand in a day selling cookbooks on one video, but I've made maybe two hundred and forty thousand in a day. Like the release of a cookbook, like, like, you know what I mean? Cookbook two. I think cookbook two in one day made two hundred and forty thousand, but it's like, that's a drop. That's not like just out of the blue. Like when I sold a thousand books and a thousand and four books in twenty four hours. Like I made a video on YouTube and people were watching it and I went, this is the first time I made big money like this. Like I'd made like maybe, you know, like ten, ten thousand a day type of thing. That's like, kind of was like normal, but I was like a hun, like I was literally looking at the Shopify and I was refreshing and I was like, there's no way that's, that there's an extra zero there. Like I didn't believe it.

• 1:25:48Speaker 01

  And that was the most surreal, memorable day of my life, I would say. Like I literally left to go to the gym and I was driving the car and it was like I was on like twenty grams of Molly or something. It was just like this high feeling over my whole body. Like I felt like something was coming out of my skin. Like I can't express how much I was like, I've made it like my, my problems will, I like, I had enough money just from that one day. And like this continued for a long time, making ridiculous sales from the cookbook. I just, I couldn't believe it. And so it was just like feeling of like I've made it and this surreal feel like it is more money than I ever thought I could ever make. So it was just monumental to me and it just lasted for so long. And then I was chasing that high again. And so I released a cookbook too.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  And like I had more money in that first day, but then the sales didn't continue. It wasn't like crazy high. And then I was like, I released the third cookbook and the sales were a bit less and it's like. I'm never gonna get the same high ever in my life from that. If I made a, if I made a billion dollars today, I don't think I would be more excited than when I made that hundred thousand. Because after you make a certain amount of money, there's no, it doesn't matter.

• 1:26:54Jack Selby?

  It doesn't change your lifestyle.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  No, like if I made, if you gave me a hundred million dollars, Mr. Beast is like, hey Greg, a hundred million here. I'd be like, wow, that's cool, but like, doesn't change anything.

• 1:27:02Jack Selby?

  So where's the point of diminishing returns in terms of money?

• 1:27:05Speaker 01

  I would say the max is at about a million dollars a year, like, and research kind of was saying that. I looked at some studies and it was like around a hundred thousand. It was like, you don't get happier. And it's like, no. You get happier till probably a million, but I don't think it's the money per se even. I think it's the fact that you know that you've accomplished so much and it's the thrill of being better, accomplished. Like you go to university, you study, you work, and when you make a hundred, two hundred, three hundred, four hundred, it's like there's this increased happiness, but at a million to two, to five, to 10, I don't think there's a big difference. I don't think there's any difference. And I think that actually can be a deterrent. I think that if you go and make a million a year, you're really like, who doesn't want to make a million dollars a year? That's great. And you make five, you make 10, then you go back to one. One sucks.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  If I only made a million dollars in that year now, I'd be like, what am I doing wrong? I would feel horrible, not because I need the money, but I'd be like, what have I done wrong? Where now I'm just not excelling at what I do. I just want to be good at it. I would compare it to, you win the Mr. Olympia, Chris Bumstead, he won this Mr. Olympia six years in a row. He comes back and he gets eighth. Eighth's amazing. If I went to the Mr. Olympia and got eighth, I would just be like, what did I just do? But Chris would be, how did I fuck up so bad? So that's the problem within these young influencers. I talked to a lot of these guys who are making a million dollars a year or more, and they're buying shit and spending on Lamborghinis and all stuff. And I'm like, you don't need that. You can't just keep buying a more expensive car. Like I got a McLaren 720S. And like, should I get a Bugatti now? Will that make me more happy?

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  And I was thinking about, yeah, you know, you get a Bugatti, it's a couple million dollars, whatever. That'll, that'll look cool. And I'm like, am I doing it for me? I don't even want a Bugatti. I'm like, am I just trying to brag that I have a lot of money? Like, how does it make you happy? I don't think it does. And so for me, like, the money is just. It's fun to make, but it's almost a measure of like your success rather than actually needing that money. And I think that we are just obsessed with having to make all this money. And then for what? To show off to, to who? To, to show off to my girlfriend? Like, I'm gonna get a look at what my boyfriend's like, why do I need to do that? I don't think that matters. And so at this point, like I basically stopped watching TV and I read books and I'm just trying to be more knowledgeable and experience the world for different lenses and just try to like

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  learn and to grow. So would you rather be rich but out of shape or in really good shape, but not rich? I have to be in shape. I would pay every cent I own to be in shape. Like if I could get rid of all of it, if I could take a zero off my income, I would take that in a second over gaining 25 pounds of fat. There's no way I just want to be this fat, soft, like I just, my dopamine comes from personal improvement. I wouldn't get, you know, of all the vehicles I have, the most important one is my stationary bike. By far, I would trade all my fancy vehicles and drive a Toyota Corolla from 19 whatever over not having my bike. Cause that's the thing I love the most and I spend the most time in it. By far, the frigging McLaren, I need

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  that. I only drive in the summer anyway. Like who cares? But my bicycle, I need my bike.

• 1:30:02Jack Selby?

  If you could delete one influencer off the internet forever, who would it be?

• 1:30:06Speaker 01

  Who's the worst influencer that is like, man, the worst one? I think we're gonna go with Togi.

• 1:30:12Jack Selby?

  Togi?

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Togi.

• 1:30:14Jack Selby?

  Wait, why?

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  Because he's promoting gambling, recreational drugs, and he's almost created a paradigm shift in thinking that promoting and glorifying drugs is cool. This guy has a lot of power. He can go and meet people and people know who he is and everyone wants to be like Togi. Do you know what I'm gonna do now? I'm gonna take a bunch of steroids. I'm gonna gamble and do drugs and promote it. I'm gonna just get wrecked and make videos and maybe I'll get famous. So we've probably got 10,000 guys right now trying to be Togi right now, using steroids, using drugs, doing everything to try to become famous. It worked for him. Will it work for anyone else? I don't know. But that's a bad influence on a lot of young people.

• 1:30:51Jack Selby?

  Togi, if you're watching this, I've always wanted to have you on the Ice Coffee Hour. Because, because I feel like we could have such a good discussion, mainly about money. Because he said he has a goal of making or being worth $10 million.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  In the next month.

• 1:31:04Jack Selby?

  And he said, he said he was like 90% there.

• 1:31:06Speaker 01

  Do you believe anything this guy says?

• 1:31:08Jack Selby?

  I don't know about that, because that sounds kind of crazy. What's it about making 10 million?

• 1:31:11Speaker 01

  He's 90% there in the grave. I mean, he almost died from an overdose on frigging Adderall laced with meth.

• 1:31:17Jack Selby?

  But I, I do think that we could have a very, because Graham and I are like basically diametrically opposed to Togi in terms of just like personality, character and stuff like that, risks that we take and according to our career and stuff like that. So I feel like we could have a very productive conversation with Togi. Togi, if you're watching, come on the show, please. We'll come to you. We're open to it. Who do you think is the most underrated fitness influencer?

• 1:31:37Speaker 01

  It would be anybody who I've never heard of. Every single person that I know of is not underrated, in my opinion. Like, as soon as you get a million followers, can you be underrated? Could I be underrated? Could Will Tennyson? Could Jesse James? Could any of these top level influencers be underrated when you have millions of followers? I think all of us are overrated. Anyone that has millions of followers. And like, okay, I have, like, I have, what, 2 million followers? If somebody has 2,000 followers, am I really 1,000 times more better than them? I, I can't imagine it. So anyone who's working really hard, that's producing videos that people aren't seeing, I think those are the underrated people. I don't think it's anyone that's, because if I name somebody that's famous, they're probably not underrated.

• 1:32:17Jack Selby?

  Would you rather have a dad bod and be 6'5" or be shredded and be 5'5"?

• 1:32:22Speaker 01

  I'd rather be me. I am 5'5" and shredded. Well, 5'6", but it's close enough. Over dad bod. Unless it's Jason Momoa or, or Chris Bumstead, then I'll take those.

• 1:32:32Jack Selby?

  Who's someone in the industry that you think is legit and deserves more respect?

• 1:32:36Speaker 01

  More respect that's legit? Who's not respected? Everyone I know that has a lot of followers is respected. Like, if you go to, I don't know, have you ever been to like an Arnold's or a Mr. Olympia or anything?

• 1:32:47Jack Selby?

  No.

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  All these fitness influencers or young LA guys or, or anyone that's approached like, like any of these like famous fitness influencers? It is unbelievable the amount of respect that everyone is getting. So I don't see anyone getting no respect. Like, there's Hundreds of people, thousands trying to take photos with every single influencer that has like, say a million followers or more, like they will literally do anything to get a photo with you. Like it's, it's like you're a superstar. Like I literally feel like The Rock when I go to a fitness event. Like it's, it's unbelievable. Like everyone wants to talk to you, take a photo, take some time and you just can't meet everyone. And so it's surreal. Like it's hard to believe that there's that many people. So I don't think anyone is not, is needs more respect. The respect at an event like that. So if you're

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  a famous fitness influencer and you've never been, go because your life will be changed after doing this. It's unbelievable.

• 1:33:38Jack Selby?

  If you had to live with one fitness influencer for a year, who would it be and who would be the worst?

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Who would I least like? It's gotta be Mike Izzertel. Now, even though we've squashed the beef.

• 1:33:50Jack Selby?

  Have you? It doesn't sound like it.

• 1:33:51Speaker 01

  Well, like I can squash a beef with a guy, but doesn't mean I want to live with them for a year. Like would I really want to spend a year? I can't get into it. Cause the beef is over.

• 1:34:01Jack Selby?

  The beef is 30 videos long.

• 1:34:03Speaker 01

  How have I not, I, I haven't, I watch a video.

• 1:34:05Jack Selby?

  You haven't seen it?

• 1:34:07Speaker 01

  I forget a lot.

• 1:34:08Jack Selby?

  You know who Kendrick is or Drake? It's bigger than that. It all stems, it all stems from, from not having a proper tan. Is what it stems from.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  But I mean, partly the, the, the lack of having a great tan and.

• 1:34:20Jack Selby?

  Yeah. I do, I do want to say we've had Mike on the podcast and he's been nothing but amazing. To us at least, like he's like the nicest guy ever. He invited us into his home. I don't want to say anything. He's hilarious. Very funny. Yeah. I don't want to say anything about negative about Mike because he's honestly treated us incredibly well. So, but.

• 1:34:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, he's just said some things about me and I've said some things about him. And if you're not familiar, I don't want to repeat them again. Cause it wouldn't be really, yeah.

• 1:34:41Jack Selby?

  What do you think is going to be the next big lie of the fitness industry?

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I mean, if I sat down and had an hour, I might be able to come up with an answer, but I don't know what the next big lie is. I think it's going to continue to be like being a fake natty or doing, doing HRT is a thing. I know one thing that's going to come up that's going to be huge is going to be GLP-1s for fat loss. People are going to be using Ozempic. I think that perhaps saying that those things can be used with no negative side effects or no negative consequences. Like are you familiar with those Ozempic and all these GLP-1s like for weight loss? You basically inject your. Self with with a drug and it makes you not hungry and a lot of people lose muscle. And I think it's going to be the biggest thing in the fitness industry in two, three, four years from now. Like we even sell a GLP one, like an oral version of this product reduces your appetite.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  And so we could basically cure obesity because if you're not hungry, why are you overweight? Unless you're, you know, eating because you're sad or something. So, but is that going to cause negative side effects down the road? Like people using it for 10 years, like who knows? That could be something scary.

• 1:35:42Jack Selby?

  Is there a question you wish more people would ask you?

• 1:35:45Speaker 01

  What I'm like in real life, perhaps, and people that would, I don't know. It's like to ask me, but assuming that just because I make a video and say a certain thing, then that that's gotta be like who I am as a real person. Like, I think people, they'll talk to me, they'll be like, you have a normal voice? You don't like just scream all the time? Like, I don't sit at a party and freak out and call everyone not natural. Like, I'm just a chill guy, like, but people think it like they can't imagine just me being normal. And like a normal girl liking me, like I've had people like, there's no way that a girl would ever like you, your voice. And I'm like, I'm just a normal guy, like I'm just normal. And I would argue one of the most normal bodybuilders you can get, because most bodybuilders, they're not going to eat normal food, they're not going to go out. I was like, it's a week out from a show.

• 1:36:30Speaker 01

  I'm like, yeah, you want to go to the bar? Let's go dance, I'll have a good time, let's do it. Like, I'll go to a restaurant, I'm just normal. I had a normal job, I was a school teacher and I was dining at the same time, I wouldn't freak. And I'm like, I, I feel like I'm a normal bodybuilder, but bodybuilders inherently are not normal.

• 1:36:45Jack Selby?

  How do you hype yourself up before you film?

• 1:36:47Speaker 01

  I don't need to, I don't drink caffeine, I'll go in, I could just sit here like this. And then I just start the video and I just, I have a lot of passion for the sport. And when I talk about something, it just, just as soon as I get going, I really do get going. And so I don't need to, to talk myself into it. People think I snort lines of creatine, which is not creatine, but cocaine, I don't do that. I don't drink caffeine before doing my videos, I just literally go. But I pick topics that I have passion for and I'm very passionate when I speak. And like, I mean, I used to be a phys ed teacher for 11 years. I have to walk in and the grade primary kids are there, you know, five year olds and we'll get them hyped up. We're going to play in gym class. So I'm just used to being excited or even if it was in the classroom, like.

• 1:37:28Speaker 01

  History again, but if I could amp up the story a little bit and get some excitement, the kids would pay attention. So it just comes from practice.

• 1:37:36Jack Selby?

  What would you say is your biggest insecurity?

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  I have a horrible memory, but I don't like I I lean into it. I'm like, I don't remember your name. All these famous people come and visit me and I'm like, like Eric Channicki, I spent two days practicing his name. Or Mitchell Hooper, I call him Michael Cooper. And I was like, I just couldn't do it. I just like, I don't have this memory. Um, so perhaps, perhaps my sense of direction, I would say, yeah, that's my worst. Like I can't like, like I have a I'm a genius with learning stability. I tell people all the time, literally, like, you know, I just can't do it. Like, I can't find directions. We were talking even before I was like, I couldn't get my help back there. Like, I can't, I get lost driving to my house multiple times and I've lived there for a year and a half in Halifax. How is that possible? But yet it happens.

• 1:38:17Jack Selby?

  Do you think you could take Bradley Martyn in a street fight?

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  He's 260, bro. No way.

• 1:38:21Jack Selby?

  Couldn't do it.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Two.

• 1:38:23Jack Selby?

  You're supposed to say yes. You're supposed to say yes.

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Why would I say yes?

• 1:38:26Jack Selby?

  Because it's just like a long, ongoing.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  I'm so familiar with Bradley Martyn asking everyone that, but I like literally, I just like answering questions honestly. And I think Bradley would destroy me.

• 1:38:37Jack Selby?

  What if you had, what if you had a tire iron? Do you think you could do it?

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  That's a great question. Okay, I got the tire iron.

• 1:38:45Jack Selby?

  Yeah, like what would, what would even the playing field?

• 1:38:47Speaker 01

  I think with a tire iron, yeah.

• 1:38:48Jack Selby?

  What would be the perfect material that you could use to make it perfectly even? And not a gun.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  Uh, tire iron, that's it. Baseball bat, I'd have too much of an advantage.

• 1:38:57Jack Selby?

  If you spoke a little bit slower, you'd sound very similar to Jordan Peterson.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  A lot of people said, I'm Jordan Peterson on steroids. And I'm like, who's Jordan Peterson? This was like five years ago. And I looked him up and like, oh, it's a compliment. This guy's actually famous. He's from Canada because they're both Canadian. Yeah, I've had that a lot. I like Jordan Peterson a lot. I've read, I've read his 12 Rules of Life.

• 1:39:20Jack Selby?

  You read it after you heard about him. You have?

• 1:39:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I went to see him at a, at a, at a concert. I got backstage with him, took photo with him. Huge respect for him. I love this guy.

• 1:39:29Jack Selby?

  He was great.

• 1:39:29Speaker 01

  He's awesome. He's so smart. He's like, it's like he speaks and he'll like look down, his eyes are closed. He's trying to think of every sentence perfectly. He's like talking on the stage. He's like, his eyes are closed all the time. Like, he's so passionate about it and he speaks so well. Yeah, he's one of my, like, would be like one of my role models for, for, you know, for life, that one of the guys I listen to a lot. Yeah.

• 1:39:53Jack Selby?

  Cool. This is the. I'll put it into the mic too when you.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:39:58Graham Stephan?

  People that watch me know my worth and value to whatever. Can you give us your best Greg impression?

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  Oh my God, are you kidding me? I told you he's not Natty.

• 1:40:09Graham Stephan?

  How was that? Is it good?

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  It's not bad.

• 1:40:12Graham Stephan?

  He's not Natty. Oh my goodness. That's crazy to see in real life.

• 1:40:16Speaker 01

  I watch my old videos and there's different phases where I'm like, oh, that's like cringey Greg. Like it's my nasally Greg. I find that my voice is maybe louder now, but like, or like more normal now, but it's more like my real voice. That's like almost put on like I was just yelling too loud, but it's certainly changed over the years. Like I definitely sound different.

• 1:40:37Graham Stephan?

  Can you give us an impression of Jesse James West?

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  Okay, guys, we gotta go. We gotta go it on. It's, it's amazing. And then, then he has to screw up and then do it again. No, uh, uh, it's fitness influencers versus bodybuilders. No, it's fitness influencers versus people who wait. And then, so the Jesse James impersonation has to be, you do it with extreme excitement, but you have to take, retake the takeover 10 straight times. This is Jesse James.

• 1:41:06Graham Stephan?

  You hear that Jesse?

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  So if you're in a Jesse James video, you have to redo the scene 10 times to get it perfect. Cause he's a perfectionist.

• 1:41:12Graham Stephan?

  I think everyone does that in fairness.

• 1:41:14Speaker 01

  No, Coach Greg does not do this. I make one.

• 1:41:17Graham Stephan?

  You're perfect off rip.

• 1:41:19Speaker 01

  I'm far from that, but I think that people like the mistakes. They like seeing you screw up. And honestly, how many videos have I done where I say something and I say the person's name? I did a video on RFK and I called him JFK six times throughout. And then it was like RFK, RFK, or I call like Mike Thurston, the wrong name. The wrong name and people are like laughing. They're like, I can't believe it. So the more mistakes I have in a video, the better. Like if I made, if I said, we're saying Mitch, Mitchell Hooper. If I said, Michael Cooper right here with a straight face and I didn't notice and people are like, did bro just say Mitchell Cooper? Or whatever, like it's just funnier. So why, why redo it? Just go. So I speak, when I do my videos, there's no one in the room.

• 1:42:00Speaker 01

  I have the, the, the, the videographer guy presses record and walks out because I'm too stupid to remember to press these buttons and hate it. And I talk and then when the video's done, I press then and I walk out the room and I don't do anything. So there's a lot of mistakes in there and the editors sometimes will like take the scene out or whatever. But like a lot of times they're just putting in there because it's more fun.

• 1:42:18Graham Stephan?

  Interesting. That was perfect. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was great.

• 1:42:23Graham Stephan?

  This is a blast. I love this.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  I had a good time.

• 1:42:24Graham Stephan?

  Awesome. Thank you guys for watching so much.

• 1:42:26Speaker 01

  Thank you, Greg.

• 1:42:27Graham Stephan?

  Yep. We're gonna link to all of your info down below in the description along with the cookbook. So for people that wanna follow along, that is down below. Thank you so much, and until next time.