A Passover & Easter Doubleheader (Reheat)

We ponder the question that Jews have been pondering since they crossed the desert: Can matzoh be salvaged? We also discuss techniques for dipping your egg into salt water, and trivia that will make the Earl of Sandwich tremble in his grave. Plus, in preparation for Easter Sunday, we debate whether spiral cut ham represents one of humanity's greatest achievements or its impending downfall.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dan Pashman?

  As we turn to fall and the weather starts to cool down, I think of things like crunching leaves. I think of sharing from the sidelines of a soccer game, walking the dog in the woods. And when I think of doing all those things, I'm usually wearing something from LL Bean. Whether it's my puffer vest, my puffer coat, my scarf, whatever you're doing outside this year, you probably need something from LL Bean, whether it's their boots, their Scotch plaid flannel, their rugged field coat, or more. Grab the layers and people you love and get outside. Visit llbean.com to shop the fall collection. LL Bean, be an outsider. As someone who has been lucky enough to go to Napa Valley, I can tell you, it's everything people say it is. Beautiful scenery, quaint, beautiful towns, and phenomenal food and

• 0:44Dan Pashman?

  drink everywhere you go. I don't even know that much about wine, but I know that every glass of wine I had in Napa Valley was excellent. I mean, there's no bad glass of wine and no bad meal. Choose between hundreds of wineries, tasting rooms, and chef-led restaurants from a low-key lunch on a vineyard terrace to a full tasting menu paired by the winemaker. Plan your trip at visitnapavalley.com.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Sirius XM Podcasts.

• 1:16Dan Pashman?

  Hey, everyone. It's Dan here with another Sporkful reheat. And I had to go all the way to the back of the deep freezer to pull this one out. A lot of you really loved some of the super, super old ones we've been sharing. Well, this is one of those from back when I hosted the Sporkful with my friend Mark Garrison. With Passover already underway, Easter's coming up this weekend, perfect time for a Sporkful doubleheader. That's right, two classic episodes for the price of one. Well, I mean, it's free, so two episodes for the price of zero. Anyway, you're welcome. The first episode here covers Passover's culinary delights. Spoiler, I love matzah. It's delicious. Why are people complaining about it? A little bit of salt water on it, cream cheese, matzah pizza, whatever. All right, we're going to get into it in the episode. In the second episode, we go deep into Easter foods, including

• 2:00Dan Pashman?

  my love of Cadbury cream eggs and spiral cut ham. Oh, the moment I first discovered spiral cut ham. What a magical day that was. And who better to talk about both Passover and Easter than an old friend of the show, Wyn Rosenfeld, who grew up with a Catholic mom and a Jewish dad. So Wynne will join us too. And remember that you can ask us to pull vintage Sporkful episodes out of the deep freezer whenever you like. Send me an email or voice memo to [email protected]. Be sure to include your first name, location, what episode you want to reheat, and why. Thanks so much. Happy Passover, Happy Easter, and enjoy. This is the Sporkful.

• 2:49Dan Pashman?

  This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman along with Mark Garrison.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Hey there, Dan.

• 2:55Dan Pashman?

  We're about to challenge your assumptions about consumption and drop a sporkful of knowledge on you because we're obsessively compulsive about eating more awesomely. And because if history has taught us anything, it's that the hosts of food shows need a lot of catchphrases. Mark Garrison, how are you, sir?

• 3:08Speaker 02

  I'm good. I actually consumed two bananas prior to this taping, which is unusual because it's rare that you have more than one banana at one given time. But I needed two because I knew that there would be kind of a delay before dinner is actually available. We finished doing what we're doing. So two bananas.

• 3:22Dan Pashman?

  I thought you were gonna say delay before...

• 3:24Speaker 02

  Banana number three?

• 3:26Dan Pashman?

  No, before you realized that banana number one was in your stomach and you wanted to like try to get the bananas in there as fast as possible.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  I don't trace them that rigorously, but I'm glad to know that you do.

• 3:35Dan Pashman?

  All right. Yeah, I do. I do.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  All right, guys. Just a reminder that the conversation we're about to have, it continues online all the time. You can go to sporkful.com. There you can find our blog. You can leave us comments, ideas, reactions, rants. We love all that stuff. Also Twitter feed, Facebook page, lots of ways to interact with us. All of that and a little more at sporkful.com.

• 3:54Dan Pashman?

  That's right. And joining us today is an old friend of ours who Mark and I worked with at the Brian Park Project. He is technically speaking, the most frequent guest to the Sporkful. This being his third appearance on the show. And we like to call him the Sporkful's wacky neighbor. And he's our friend Wynne Rosenfeld. Hey Wynne.

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Hey, guys. How's it going?

• 4:10Speaker 02

  Good to have you back.

• 4:11Speaker 03

  Well, thanks for having me back. It's an honor.

• 4:13Dan Pashman?

  And folks should know that Wynne works on a great show on PBS called Need to Know, which airs Friday evenings, hosted by our old friend Allison Stewart. And Wynne, now you're an on-air guy. You're on the TV.

• 4:23Speaker 03

  That's right. I'm a special correspondent.

• 4:25Dan Pashman?

  That's right.

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Special indeed.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  I do the nerd stories.

• 4:27Dan Pashman?

  Yes.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  If it's about psychology or abstract science. Things that are basically useless. I do those kinds of stories.

• 4:33Dan Pashman?

  Well, but you make them seem like 5% useful.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Right.

• 4:38Dan Pashman?

  So that's why we need you around, Wynne.

• 4:40Speaker 03

  That's my goal. That's my goal. Old 5% Wynne.

• 4:43Dan Pashman?

  Well, let's go ahead and jump into today's topic for mastication and rumination, which is Passover.

• 4:50Dan Pashman?

  And when we brought you here for this show and for next week's show on Easter, because you are half Jewish and half Catholic.

• 4:58Speaker 03

  That's right, yeah. My, my, uh, mother's Catholic, my father is Jewish. Uh, so I, um, I'm sort of a sandwich of guilt and shame.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  Well done.

• 5:08Dan Pashman?

  And, and we're dropping this show as Passover begins and the Easter show next week, we're actually gonna drop a couple of days early. So, uh, before Easter Sunday, so you can listen to it and prepare for your Easter Sunday feast.

• 5:19Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 5:19Dan Pashman?

  Uh, and when will be joining us for that show as well. Now, Mark, you'll be assuming the role of the curious Gentile.

• 5:25Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:25Dan Pashman?

  For this, uh, discussion. And for those uninitiated, you know, a Passover dinner involves a seder, which includes the recounting of the Jews' exodus from Egypt. And the seder also involves eating a bunch of things with symbolism. And we're not gonna get into all the things now, but, you know, you can Google it if you really wanna know the details. Uh, we're not gonna cover every single part of the seder, so if you're following along at home with your Maxwell House hagada, you may get lost.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Did you say Maxwell House?

• 5:49Dan Pashman?

  Yes, Maxwell House produces hagadas that a lot of, like, American Jews who aren't observant enough to, like, get the whatever fancy hagada.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  Is there a short answer to why Maxwell House, the coffee people?

• 5:59Speaker 03

  I hear that Folgers is anti-Semitic.

• 6:02Dan Pashman?

  Right. But I will tell you that the word seder means order. So we're gonna try to do this in order, although, you know, don't send me email if your rabbi does it differently, okay? Now, it, it kinda begins, uh, the first edible thing is called karpas, which is a vegetable. You dip it in salt water. Now, most common in my household was they would use parsley, because you're supposed to use a green thing, I guess.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:23Dan Pashman?

  Parsley should never be eaten alone. I mean, like, it's barely good as a garnish. There are other green vegetables you could use that would bring something to the table. You're gonna make me dip parsley in salt water? I mean, I know that we're supposed to be remembering our ancestors' suffering, but, I mean, Mark, you don't need to be Jewish to know that parsley dipped in salt water's not gonna be that good.

• 6:43Speaker 02

  I don't know about the saltwater part, but I have munched on a bunch of parsley and it's not bad. Only because this guy who I thought was crazy did this like that. So I can understand if that is the, the choice because I, I don't think it's totally ridiculous to do that.

• 6:56Dan Pashman?

  When, what do you think about the parsley?

• 6:57Speaker 03

  Well, I think fundamentally it's a garnish. I mean, no question. It's, it's an odd choice, especially because I think the value of parsley as a food is only in as far as it's a decent palate cleanser. It's a weird place to start, I think.

• 7:09Dan Pashman?

  Next up would be matzah, but we're gonna, we'll hold off on matzah because that's a big Passover topic. We're gonna need to sit down and spend some time on that. We'll skip maror because every, you know, that's the bitter herbs and you know, everyone knows that horseradish on matzah is just beyond repair. Nothing you can do to make that any good. Then you get to the haroset, which is part of the korach, I think is how you say that. Uh, which means a wrap or fold it over thing or a sandwich, Mark and when. Which, you know, if you believe the internet, they credit that to Rabbi Hillel who, you know, started making matzah sandwiches with this stuff. And I mean, uh, that's way before the Earl of Sandwich.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 7:45Dan Pashman?

  So there's some real history here, the sandwich, the matzah being used to make a sandwich. I mean, it's, that's pretty big.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, Zo, should we explain what haroset is?

• 7:54Dan Pashman?

  Yes, why don't you do that?

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Well, I'm not exactly sure. I was hoping you would do it.

• 7:57Dan Pashman?

  It's kind of, it's different in every household, but it's supposed to symbolize the mortar of the building of, I guess, the pyramids.

• 8:03Speaker 03

  But it's apple-based, is that right?

• 8:05Dan Pashman?

  It's usually, uh, apples, nuts, cinnamon, sugar, uh, and maybe a dash of, of manasshevitz, which is like Jewish red wine with sugar added.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  These are uncommon mortar type ingredients. Like that, that, cause that was, that was the one thing when I was kind of like researching this and kind of trying to understand the symbolism. Many things make sense, like bitter tasting things, bitterness, pretty easy. But none of these things, you, you would not build your home with any of those things, even if you puree them, it's not gonna happen.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Are we allowed to talk about matzah yet? Because I just a quick sidebar about matzah.

• 8:37Dan Pashman?

  Go ahead, go ahead, yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Is that matzah as a, probably the blandest food on earth has, I mean, that is the one thing I think of the seder that really stands up to it and really balances it out. I mean, it is that that sandwich is the best possible implementation.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Is there a piece of matzah on top and bottom? Or is it just a bottom layer with harosit on it?

• 8:54Dan Pashman?

  Matzah on top and bottom.

• 8:55Speaker 03

  But you can do open face, you can do open face.

• 8:57Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, you can do open face.

• 8:58Speaker 02

  That's kosher, I can.

• 8:59Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  Now, how though?

• 9:00Speaker 03

  Literally.

• 9:01Speaker 02

  With the harosit, I mean, is it, it's not typically like spreadable and it's more of like a, I don't know.

• 9:07Dan Pashman?

  It's chopped finely.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:08Dan Pashman?

  So it's finely chopped, so you kind of have a little spoon.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  So it's, it's gonna stay together enough if, if you pop one in your mouth as a sandwich. Because I guess I have some structural concerns about sandwichizing it with matzah, with essentially a cracker consistency.

• 9:19Dan Pashman?

  It's not, you know, you're right, it's not the best structural food. It, it works, it holds up, but you're gonna lose a little apple or nut at the bottom, you know? But I guess that's the way the rabbis intended it.

• 9:38Dan Pashman?

  See, right away, when you can see from the way that Mark broke his piece of matzah off from the hole, that he's not a pro. Look at this, look what I got. Look what I got, I'm holding a, a full vertical.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  It's very, it actually has the kind of the contours of kind of a minimalist skyscraper, because it's very, it's got the straight edges, you know, not a lot of extra flares to it like that. Very, very, very good.

• 9:57Dan Pashman?

  You, you gotta break along the perforations. I gotta tell you guys, I know that it's popular. Jews like to complain, well, in general, especially about matzah. Everyone wants to beat up on old matzah. Matzah the punching bag. Well, I'm here to say that I think matzah is delicious. I look forward to eating matzah. I had this box that I got so I could share something with Mark, this box of matzah, and Passover hasn't even started yet, and I've been eating it at home, because I just enjoy it. It's just a nice little palate cleanser, I love the texture, the level of crunch. Not too crunchy, but it's got a nice little pop when you bite into it. It's a nice mild flavor. It does have-

• 10:36Speaker 02

  Mild flavor. Like, it's mild flavor in comparison with other pieces of paper.

• 10:43Speaker 02

  You know, as long as you're keeping it in a certain genre, you're fine. But it does have good crunch. You know, that is beyond dispute.

• 10:49Dan Pashman?

  The texture is really nice.

• 10:50Speaker 02

  Crunch quality.

• 10:50Dan Pashman?

  What do you think of matz- is this the first time you're eating matzah plain, Mark?

• 10:53Speaker 02

  I've had matzah plain before. It's fine. I mean, I've had, and I've had, because we, this is kind of the matzah, you know, out of the box. So this is kind of the perfectly square. I've had kind of the more irregularly shaped, I don't know, what is that?

• 11:04Dan Pashman?

  I think they usually, they usually call those, I believe, that that is probably shmura matzah.

• 11:09Speaker 02

  Is that, because this kind of-

• 11:11Dan Pashman?

  It's bigger, it's darker.

• 11:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:12Dan Pashman?

  It's round. It looks a little more like made by hand.

• 11:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, because it was round, so it looks like, you know, because these have obviously been like-

• 11:19Dan Pashman?

  That stuff costs like $10 a slice because they pay a rabbi to watch it not rise.

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, because it has to be certified, yeah.

• 11:26Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, it's certified by a rabbi.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  Put in there like that.

• 11:28Dan Pashman?

  More rabbis watched that matzah be made than this matzah.

• 11:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. But I do like also, because I think, you don't get this in non-Semitic crackers. I don't want to call those like that. But these, typically, and even like, you know, what do you call these? The manufactured matzah? I don't know. But like, even then, though, they have like a nice around the edge or certain areas where it's like been a little charred, kind of toasted.

• 11:50Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  It's pretty good. I mean, because you don't get that in a Ritz cracker or typical crackers that come out of a box in a, you know, plastic sleeve.

• 11:56Dan Pashman?

  I agree. So, Wayne, what's your, what's your overall on matzah?

• 11:59Speaker 03

  I don't get it. I really want to get it. I don't get it. To me, this is the blandest thing. I mean, I don't mean to jump on the bandwagon of being anti-matzite, but I can't believe how bland this thing is. And he's eating it now, and I've eaten matzah now for 33 years, and it still tastes like the bland. I mean, you're drinking water right there like you're a porpoise. I mean, it's outrageously dry piece of cracker.

• 12:20Dan Pashman?

  My mouth does feel a little dry.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I gotta say, I mean, Mark, I hear you. The darkened spots are, does add a little char. Which is nice because it adds a little bit of nuance to an otherwise completely unnuanced food. I just, I'm almost, I'd almost defy you to come up with a blander food.

• 12:39Dan Pashman?

  It's like most crackers. I don't think this is so different from like a Cars Table Water Cracker.

• 12:43Speaker 02

  I don't agree with that. No, no, because like, you know, in a typical cracker, you're getting some kind of buttery flavor. And obviously, yeast has a little bit of flavor of its own.

• 12:50Dan Pashman?

  Look, I'm not going to say that matzah is amazing, but I think that once a year, for eight days, you know, it's a nice change of pace. I think it's got a really nice texture. I do like the flavor. To me, the only downside really of matzah- Is that, as my grandmother would say, it's very binding when you eat it. And it goes through your system. It's binding.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:11Dan Pashman?

  And that creates problems after you've eaten the matzah.

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:14Dan Pashman?

  And that's a problem that Jews like to complain about when it gets towards the end of Passover.

• 13:22Dan Pashman?

  When, what are some of the things that you will do to matzah to make it more palatable?

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Well, a harosit is the main thing, I think. I mean, because I actually don't, I mean, I eat matzah once a year. This, this year, twice, because I'm on the spork for eating matzah. In general, it's just a harosit delivery system in the biggest way possible. Well, what do you do to your matzah?

• 13:43Dan Pashman?

  My wife does more stuff, you know, she makes, she'll make the matzah pizza. You know, she'll buy a whole big jar of like tomato sauce and a big thing of shredded cheese. But, you know, matzah's very thin and it only takes a little bit of sauce and a little bit of cheese. You have to make like 20 matzah pizzas for it to be a real dinner.

• 13:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 13:57Dan Pashman?

  It looks like a lot of food because it covers the plate. But in reality, it's only like 1/16 of an inch thick. And so, you know, like when you get a little thin crust pizza, you could eat a whole pie.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 14:06Dan Pashman?

  And so, it's like that. She'll make matzah lasagna, where she'll kind of soak the matzah in a little bit of water or sauce and then put the matzah in, in lieu of lasagna noodles. But in general, my approach during Passover is really, I say the same thing about it as I say to vegetarians, you know, who are like, oh, like we had that caller on in our call-in show recently who said, you know, "I love tofu ribs." And it's like, you know, just, you know, it's fine to be a vegetarian, but then just, just eat the many delicious foods that aren't meat. But don't try to tell me that you have invented a food that is a substitute for meat. Like, matzah pizza is a real insult to pizza. You know, matzah lasagna is not very good. Like, just so don't eat bread for eight days.

• 14:48Dan Pashman?

  You know, it's not so hard, you know, so you can eat meat, you can eat fruits, and you can eat vegetables.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  There's a lot left.

• 14:54Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, that's like, you know, even the really observant Jews who won't eat pasta, they won't eat rice, they won't eat beans. Um, there's, and there's other stuff that I'm probably not even thinking of that technically, because a rabbi told them they can't eat it.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  Sour straws.

• 15:07Dan Pashman?

  Yeah. And so it's just like, like, there's still, it's even with the most, the strictest interpretations still leaves you plenty of stuff, and yet, here we have all these Jews making like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on matzah.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  My favorite way to eat matzah is as a matzah ball. Is, to me, uh, that, matzah ball soup, I think, is a great, that's a great, I mean, that's where the absorbency of the matzah, the core absorbency of it as a substance really comes into play. You get something that's a sort of a nice, wet, unstuffed dumpling, really, and as you sort of cut away from it, it, it has that beautiful break, you can sort of spoon into it, and it makes little reservoirs of, uh, broth.

• 15:47Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 03

  I'm a, I'm a big, big fan of matzah soup.

• 15:49Dan Pashman?

  That, like, that description of it is pretty good, that you said an unstuffed dumpling, and I've never thought of it that way, but it is.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  That was my nickname in college.

• 15:55Dan Pashman?

  It's very good.

• 15:56Speaker 03

  I don't know what that means.

• 15:57Dan Pashman?

  Um, yeah, I, I think you're right, Wayne, I think matzah ball soup is the best use of the matzah ball, it's made with matzah meal, which is kind of like pureed matzah, and, uh, and then just chicken broth, and it's really delicious, and, um, matzah meal, you know, you can also do things with matzah meal, uh, you can like, uh, uh, put it on chicken and fry out the chicken, and you get a crispy, it, it's like breadcrumbs.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  That sounds delicious, actually, I haven't had that, but that sounds great.

• 16:21Dan Pashman?

  It's decent, I mean, it's not as good as really good breadcrumbs, but like, that will work, it'll give you a little crunch on your chicken. So there's a lot you can do out there, and so, you know, don't complain this Passover season, all right? Just enjoy it.

• 16:35Dan Pashman?

  Then the only other thing you eat before you really get to dinner is usually a hard-boiled egg, uh, and that's traditionally done with the salt water, and the hard-boiled egg is, you know, egg, life cycle, the salt water, tears, and I actually think that dipping things in salt water is a technique that should be used more frequently. I think it is a really nice way to season a hard-boiled egg. When I go to the old-school Italian mozzarella shops in around Brooklyn, they keep the mozzarella, fresh homemade mozzarella.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  The fresh mozzarella, yeah.

• 17:04Dan Pashman?

  The fresh mozzarella they keep in water, and then when you buy it, they will take it out if you want, and they dip it into a concentrated salt water bath before putting it in the container.

• 17:14Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 17:15Dan Pashman?

  Um, and so, clearly, this is not just a Jewish thing, salt water as a, as a dunk. I think it's a great way to season things, I think we should do this more. What do you think?

• 17:23Speaker 02

  I can be up for that with a hard-boiled egg because I'm, I usually prefer a soft-boiled. Like, I'm not crazy about hard-boiled eggs in a Cobb salad or in any number of places where they're often deployed. So I would actually take that home and try that because I feel like if I'm faced with a hard-boiled egg, which you often are, because like, soft-boiled eggs, you gotta, they're not just around, but hard-boiled eggs tend to be offered and, you know, they can be saved and dealt out in different ways. So I will try the next time I have a hard-boiled egg to do your saline dip.

• 17:47Dan Pashman?

  All right. I cut up my hard-boiled egg.

• 17:49Speaker 02

  Uh-huh.

• 17:50Dan Pashman?

  Then sprinkle the salt water on top because the inside of the egg-

• 17:53Speaker 02

  Wait, I thought you were dipping. You didn't say anything about sprinkling. I didn't sign on for any kind of like sprinkle.

• 17:58Dan Pashman?

  It's the same concept.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  No, but I, you said dunk. You said dunk.

• 18:01Dan Pashman?

  In mozzarella, you dunk.

• 18:03Speaker 02

  Dunk and dip. But I thought we're dunking this egg.

• 18:05Dan Pashman?

  No, you know-

• 18:05Speaker 02

  I want to dunk this egg.

• 18:06Dan Pashman?

  Well, you can dunk it, but, but there's a bit of a seal around the exterior of a hard-boiled egg.

• 18:10Speaker 02

  No, I'm removing it. I'm removing the egg. Yeah, I'm taking the shell off.

• 18:13Dan Pashman?

  I'm not talking about the shell. I'm talking about the actual exterior of the egg white. Yeah, that thing's like Teflon, man.

• 18:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, no, what I was thinking was like, was to slice it in half.

• 18:22Dan Pashman?

  Yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 02

  Like, divide the yolk and then I'd have two ends that I could dip.

• 18:25Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, yeah, that works. That works. That works. I mean, I would usually take a spoonful of salt water and put it, and pour it onto the yolk. You have two halves or four quarters yolk sides up.

• 18:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 18:34Dan Pashman?

  And you take a little spoonful of salt water and sprinkle it across the yolks because yolk is more observant than egg wa- Yolk is more absorbent than egg white.

• 18:40Speaker 02

  It is observant, yeah. I mean, that's, that's why it's there for Passover.

• 18:43Dan Pashman?

  That's right.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  You want the most pious egg you can find, the pious part of that egg.

• 18:49Dan Pashman?

  That was our Passover episode from 2011, way back in the archives. Coming up after the break, our Easter episode from the same year, also featuring my old friend, Win Rosenfeld. And it's more than just candy, a lot to cover on Easter. Stick around.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  It's time to open up a can of advertisements.

• 19:14Dan Pashman?

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• 19:59Dan Pashman?

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• 20:43Dan Pashman?

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• 21:26Dan Pashman?

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• 21:53Dan Pashman?

  Welcome back to The Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman and we are quickly approaching our big live show in Boston. Let me tell you something, tickets are selling fast. And it's probably because of the all-star lineup of guests we have. From reporter Matt Shearer, to Irene Lee of MayMay Dumplings, to Ian Cosse of WGBH, who you heard in our Catching the Codfather episode, he's gonna tell a holster about monkfish. It's gonna be kind of like a bonanza, an extravaganza. It's gonna be good. All right, May 1st in Boston at WBUR City Space. Tickets and info at sporkful.com/live. All right, now back to this week's reheat. This is The Sporkful.

• 22:43Dan Pashman?

  This is The Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman along with Mark Garrison.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  Hey there, Dan.

• 22:49Dan Pashman?

  We're about to challenge your assumptions about consumption, drop a sporkful of knowledge on you. Because we're obsessively compulsive about eating more awesomely. And because if history has taught us anything, it is that the hosts of food shows need a lot of catchphrases. Mark Garrison, how are you doing?

• 23:03Speaker 02

  I'm good. I had a sandwich made of most of the leftovers that were in my fridge that needed to be cleared out. Sarah had these like weird like pre-purchased falafel balls, so I kind of sliced those up and put them on bread, which is weird. And then there were green onions, because I had a bunch of those in Japan and I was craving that and liked some carrots. It's not a like sporkful, you know, credit-worthy sandwich, but I just need to get rid of these things and somehow fuel up.

• 23:26Dan Pashman?

  And you already spent this much time talking about it, so now you kind of...

• 23:29Speaker 02

  It was complicated. Yeah, the other thing, I think there were, there might have been like, random rice crackers, because I decided there should be some crunch in there. And so I kind of embedded them into the mustard or mayo that I, I don't know. It was a little odd, but it was terrible.

• 23:42Dan Pashman?

  Next time try putting some matzo in there.

• 23:42Speaker 02

  Exactly, yeah. All right, let's go ahead and get into today's topic for mastication and rumination, which is Easter.

• 23:52Dan Pashman?

  Well, joining us today, he was our guest last week, we're happy to have him again. He's our old friend, Wyn Rosenfeld. Hey Wyn.

• 23:57Speaker 03

  Hey guys, thanks for having me back.

• 23:58Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, Wyn, of course, works on the PBS show Need You Know. Check him out as a producer and an on-air correspondent, doing a whole bunch of super interesting stories.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Thanks, Dan.

• 24:07Dan Pashman?

  On cool stuff.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  And so Wyn, last with us for the Passover show. We're trying to cover 66% of the Abrahamic faith, so we're doing the Easter show today. And Wyn happens to be, as I understand it, have both Catholic and Jewish heritage in his family, like half and half?

• 24:23Speaker 03

  That's right, that's right. I was a Christmas and Hanukkah kid.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  First topic, I know, Dan, you have a special fascination with this. There's nothing particularly Easter-related in this, but I know you're a big fan of spiral cut ham. If you can just take us back to the moment, because you've done this for me, but I don't know if our listeners have experienced the wonder you felt when you realized this was an existing thing.

• 24:45Dan Pashman?

  Right, well, I am Jewish, but I'm a pork-loving and eating Jew, certainly, and so I had nothing against ham. And when I was about 25, I had a roommate who celebrated Easter, and so I went to that Easter dinner, and her family had a spiral cut ham, and I had never seen this before in my life. And I just think that they're amazing. I mean, it's genius. It's exactly the way a food that has that shape, that has a bone in the middle like that, should be cut, if you want to be able to get all the meat off of it. Do you know that you could pick up a spiral cut ham and eat it all in one bite? Like, you could just start chewing it, and just twirl it, and twirl it, and twirl it. And then, you know when Garfield eats a whole ham hock, and it just has the bone? That could be you, thanks to the technology of spiral cut.

• 25:30Speaker 03

  Or you could just totally unfurl it and just share it with a loved one, like Lady and the Tramp style.

• 25:35Dan Pashman?

  Or wrap your loved one in it.

• 25:36Speaker 03

  That's true.

• 25:37Dan Pashman?

  I mean, it's amazing, it's one, like, how long would it be? It'd be like one 10-foot-long slice of ham. That's awesome.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Well, here's the problem, because I think the spiral cut ham is kind of a form of pork abuse, because when you're cutting into it, pre-cutting it, you're breaking the seal that locks in a lot of the moisture and flavor. So I have a very flavor-based objection to what you're doing there.

• 25:59Dan Pashman?

  Look, when I had spiral cut ham, it wasn't dry. I mean, I think if you cook your ham well, I mean, ham's got plenty of fat in it. You can season it with plenty of liquids and glaze it and do all these things to it. I feel like if you cook it right, it can stand up to spiral cut. It's a valid concern, but I think you can work around it.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  All right, I have a more kind of elemental and, you know, concern for humanity reason about spiral cut ham. Because I looked this up, because I knew that you were into this stuff like that.

• 26:23Dan Pashman?

  Okay.

• 26:23Speaker 02

  In terms of like having this fascination with spiral cut ham. One of the most popular, kind of the industry standard device, big industrial machine that does this spiral cutting. It kind of spins it around and blades come out like that. It's called the T2000.

• 26:36Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 26:36Speaker 02

  And you should be suspicious of anything that is made with Terminator nomenclature. Because as we know, if you give the machines too much power, they will take over.

• 26:45Dan Pashman?

  Fine, great. Spiral cut's awesome. Like, so what are they gonna do, take over? And then all my food will be spiral cut?

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that may just be like, that may just be a tease of Skynet's execution technique.

• 26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, it happens later. Because again, nuclear weapons are procured and then humanity is destroyed and you have to fight the robots. It's not, it's not worth like the slight convenience of having pre-sliced ham. But honestly, pre-sliced, slicing the ham is not hard and some people like it. It has a nice kind of ceremonial aspect to it. So it's not like slicing it is so difficult that it's worth sacrificing flavor, sacrificing the future of humanity, just so you can have your ham already sliced and spiralized.

• 27:22Dan Pashman?

  Will the nuclear weapons be spiral cut?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  One could hope so. One would hope so. I actually like spiral cut ham also because it's a fun food where you're, you get to sort of cut it on like another vector. Like, you know, you usually are cutting things, you know, either this way or that way. It's almost like a, it's almost like the fourth dimension.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  I will say that there is convenience.

• 27:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Now, what would be really cool though, I mean, like, I would kind of like bow to our robot masters if they could come up with the spiral cut ham that was kind of like the second Terminator, like the liquid metal guy like that. And it could kind of like change shapes like based on what it was doing and mimic other things. I think that would be cool.

• 27:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, potentially not healthy though.

• 28:01Dan Pashman?

  Well, you know, we have the technology for that, Mark. I mean, I mean, you know, I don't know if you've seen those little frozen chicken nuggets in the shapes of dinosaurs and letters? I mean, you know, there's no, there's no part of a chicken shaped like a stegosaurus. All right, so we could do it. Okay, we already can do it.

• 28:16Speaker 03

  All right, all right.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  All right, so we've had the dinner, but a lot of things people most associate Easter with is various candies and things like that. We got an email from Robert. He said, "I'd love to hear an episode on the good and bad Easter candy that is available every year." He says his personal favorite, the Reese's Peanut Butter Easter Eggs. He thinks of them as kind of the absolute best ratio of peanut butter to chocolate. Plus, they are tastier, he says, if you throw them in the freezer and let them harden up a bit. All right, Robert, so we're going to talk about many, many candies, and as you point out, there are good and bad, many of which occur in either chicken or bunny shapes. Now, I always have an issue with the chocolate that is shaped into bunnies, because it seems like this is the excuse for chocolate companies to put their absolute worst, crappiest chocolate, because if they put it into a bunny mold, they know that people will buy it because

• 29:04Speaker 02

  it's Easter. Can you remember the last... I mean, they're out there. I know they're like legitimate, awesome chocolate makers who decide, "Hey, I'm not going to mail it in. I'll make a bunny made of good chocolate." But that's pretty rare. That's pretty rare. I mean, can you imagine the last time you had a good chocolate Easter bunny?

• 29:18Speaker 03

  No, the whole thing is a lie, the chocolate Easter bunny. It's that it lets it that shiny, beautiful paper, and then you open it up. The detailing work is usually terrible. And then you break it open, it is vacant and hollow and empty.

• 29:32Speaker 02

  That's the issue.

• 29:33Speaker 03

  It's a deceit about surface area to volume ratio.

• 29:36Dan Pashman?

  That's a great callback, Wayne.

• 29:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, thank you. I'm a professional.

• 29:41Dan Pashman?

  Wait, you guys can tell me, is there a connection between bunnies and eggs and the actual religious meaning of Easter?

• 29:47Speaker 02

  Not the Christian meaning, but there was kind of a... A lot of the holidays were put on days that were kind of existing pagan holidays to kind of get those guys on the Christian bandwagon like that. "Hey, it's a holiday, but you're already celebrating this." And just think about Jesus and Christianity that day like that. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th.

• 30:05Dan Pashman?

  He was born July, right?

• 30:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the bunnies were some kind of spring fertility thing that just kind of got attached to this. And the candy makers have profited well off that.

• 30:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a weird marriage of iconography, and especially as related to food, because you've got the bunnies, but no one's really trying to eat bunny on Easter.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Although, they're delicious. I could start a movement just to have rabbit for Easter. I think that would be tasty.

• 30:32Dan Pashman?

  I feel like that would probably fix a lot of problems.

• 30:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:35Dan Pashman?

  You know, because then you're, because also, so you explained to me like, okay, so I get the connection between bunnies and Easter. But why bunnies and, and candy? And do, do bunnies even lay eggs?

• 30:47Speaker 03

  No.

• 30:48Dan Pashman?

  No, they have live babies, right?

• 30:50Speaker 03

  Good God.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Pretty sure they're still mammals.

• 30:52Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, mammals, right, so that's.

• 30:54Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying.

• 30:55Dan Pashman?

  This holiday makes no sense.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  It's insanity, it's insanity.

• 30:58Dan Pashman?

  As opposed to all the other things about organized religion, which just fall in line perfectly.

• 31:02Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah, with, with, with everything's very.

• 31:04Dan Pashman?

  This is the one thing I've ever encountered that just seemed to jive for me, the bunnies and the eggs. Well, also, I mean, I haven't met a whole lot of bunnies, but it's my understanding that they are among the most overrated animals. Like, people think they're so cute and cuddly and they're just really ornery and annoying and people that I know.

• 31:21Speaker 02

  They want to bite you, yeah. Often things that are cute, like pandas are, are, are evil, like they're, they're, they want to kill you. Like, bunnies, at least, they just want to bite you. I mean, they, they probably want to kill you, but they don't have enough mass and strength to do so, but. Yeah, cute does not mean nice.

• 31:33Dan Pashman?

  Right, and so it's like, you know, the, the, all the, all the deceptions that we are unraveling here. This is like the first, like, deep investigative piece the Sporkful has ever done. We're really getting right down to the heart of the matter. Bunnies suck. All right, like, they're not cute, they're, they're, they're nothing to do with Easter, they don't lay eggs, they're not good candy. We should be eating the bunnies on Easter.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  I agree, I agree, and that's, that's why you're a marketing genius.

• 32:00Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, let's see if this catches on, what do you think?

• 32:02Speaker 03

  I, I'm for it. No, but it's, like, the more I think about it, the less sense this thing makes. I mean, for the Easter bunny is a character, I guess, who ostensibly carries the eggs? Like, what's that mythology?

• 32:15Speaker 02

  It's kind of, I, I, I think of the Easter bunny kind of like as a dragon, but without the, the flame and the tail. He has like a basket of things that are not his. You know, because like the dragon, you know, because it'd be one thing if, if, if it were, if there were an Easter chicken.

• 32:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:29Speaker 02

  You would understand why the Easter chicken cares about the eggs.

• 32:31Dan Pashman?

  Right.

• 32:32Speaker 02

  They're, they're related.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:33Speaker 02

  But it's, since it's the Easter bunny, you know, because it, because the dragon never guards like dragon eggs. It's always like a treasure with like, kind of like mixed treasure. It's like, maybe like a golden sword and some necklaces, gold coins, you know, movies or something like that. So it's like a mixed treasure, so the dragon didn't. Purchase it, or earn it, or, you know.

• 32:52Speaker 02

  Prospect for the gold. He's an accountant. Yeah, it's something that he came to like. So I feel like the Easter bunny is kind of like the... It's very much like the dragon protecting something that's not his. But, I mean, like eventually the Easter bunny kind of gives you the egg. So it's kind of like a benevolent dragon.

• 33:06Dan Pashman?

  Right. You know what I love about this, where this conversation is going is like, this is how you know that everything on the internet is totally accurate.

• 33:19Dan Pashman?

  Cadbury cream eggs. I'm a big fan, but I only eat like one per year, max. I don't know what's on the inside, and I don't ever want to know. Even though I am a Mr. You know, read the Michael Pollan books and go to the farmer's market. But like my Cadbury cream egg, I don't want to know.

• 33:35Speaker 02

  You have like a seasonal, like, you know, like locally acquired Cadbury cream egg?

• 33:39Dan Pashman?

  I do buy it locally, yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 02

  It's made in Britain or whatever.

• 33:43Dan Pashman?

  That's all I know, yeah. It's a heavily genetically engineered chicken. Right. Mark, what is your take on the Cadbury cream egg?

• 33:48Speaker 02

  I like to go with the mini eggs. I know like big Cadbury cream egg fans are gonna find that pretty offensive, heretical. But I like them because like I don't like to do a two bite thing with a Cadbury cream egg. You can, full size when you can fit in your mouth if you want to. It's doable. But I like to have just like one bite and a nice, comfortable bite. Because I'm not one of the ones, because some people like kind of they wanna, they wanna bite off the top of the large egg and like see the cream inside. They want to like really confirm that it's there. But I'm not, I'm not that person. Like I'm happy to have, you know, the flavors all together in my mouth one time. So I like, I like the mini eggs.

• 34:25Dan Pashman?

  Have either of you ever tried to eat an entire Cadbury cream egg in one bite?

• 34:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:30Dan Pashman?

  How did it go? It was a lot of extra chewing. Yeah.

• 34:36Dan Pashman?

  I imagine though it could be pretty awesome. Like it's something you should probably do before you die. You've never tried this? No. Really? I always bite into it.

• 34:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was buying these either, but I do like the mini ones because they're perfect for that.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  They're a great size, yeah.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Cause it's one of those things where it's like you're getting a state change inside your grill, you know, which is kind of amazing where it's like a hard thing that all of a sudden explodes into this other kind of creamy thing. That's fun. The big egg is just tough because then you're, you're, you're kind of in for the long haul with that in terms of you're not, you're not gonna try to, then that's exactly when someone comes up to you and starts a conversation with you, when you're like, you got a Cadbury egg full.

• 35:09Speaker 02

  You know, the Marshmallow Peeps, another big, you know, very iconic thing, which I, I like looking at them. I think, I think they're beautiful to look at. They're even kind of fun to poke. Uh, I love, I love people that are making crazy dioramas with the peeps and, you know, very, very creative things that are happening with that. I'm not so much into like the whole like peep jousting where you put two in the microwave and see which one pops the other. Big mess. And, uh, but for me though, I, I'm not, you know, as, as we've established, like people can listen to our smores episode. I'm not a big Marshmallow guy and these are Marshmallow based, so they have a problem with that. The other thing, I don't know if people know this, the, uh, the eyes are made with carnaba wax, which is basically what makes your car and your shoe really shiny. So, so, you know, if anything, like, you know, remove the eyes. I'm not sure if you wanna like be consuming that level of wax in your, uh, Easter sundae.

• 35:54Speaker 02

  All right, Dan, another thing that shows up in the various Easter baskets with their nicely, uh, Windex colored grass is the jelly beans. Like where, where are you on the jelly bean?

• 36:03Dan Pashman?

  I, I just think that jelly beans are out of hand in general. I mean, I, I think that there are way too many flavors. One of those things like, you know, there, there's not actually a difference between cherry vanilla Coke jelly beans and cherry Coke jelly beans. Okay. And the idea that there are companies trying to sell us, there's a difference. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's gotta stop. There should be like not more than 10 flavors of jelly beans in the world. I saw one that were like gross out jelly beans. They had like booger flavored jelly beans and for kids.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  Kids.

• 36:31Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, for the kids and my wife.

• 36:33Speaker 03

  We're gonna, we're gonna wean this kid off his boogers, one or the other.

• 36:37Dan Pashman?

  It's like methadone. Well, I remember.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  Uger methadone, yeah. Somebody's gotta come up with that.

• 36:41Dan Pashman?

  So I'm very opposed to this whole jelly beanification and, you know, a thousand flavors and... Especially when you're having like, you know, 15 to 20 different flavors in your hand at the same time. I mean, you're eventually, I mean, you know, you might be able to, you know, okay, well, that's a butter popcorn, you know, and sort of get that and there's, you know, like a minty one or a lime one. But, but let's face it, it's just too small a unit of a food to just eat one of them. So you're gonna eat 10 of them and you're gonna, you're gonna have a large, disgusting morass of sugary grossness.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  Also too, I find it hard because they, they put them in these often variety packs and they'll be like, kind of a, on the back, there's like a mugshot of each jelly bean and you're supposed to kind of identify it by its like speckling or something like that. I, I can't tell the difference most of the time. Like I, I bite into this thing and I'm expecting toasted coconut pie and it turns out it's a popcorn.

• 37:29Dan Pashman?

  Yeah, I agree. It shouldn't be that hard to eat jelly beans. Win Rosenfeld, thank you so much again. It's been a pleasure having you here these two shows. Guys, thanks so much. I really appreciated the religious double feature.

• 37:40Speaker 02

  Until next time, I'm Mark Garrison.

• 37:42Dan Pashman?

  And I'm Dan Pashman, reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

• 37:55Dan Pashman?

  This reheat was produced by Gianna Palmer. The team that produces The Sporkful today includes me along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern. And senior producer Andres O'Hara. Our engineer is Jared O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of SiriusXM Podcasts. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. And hey, did you know you can listen to The Sporkful on the SiriusXM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app, it has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 ad-free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with A-list stars and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. And right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the SiriusXM app by going to siriusxm.com/sporkful.

• 38:41Dan Pashman?

  Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman.

• 38:48Speaker 05

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