How To Develop A Peaceful Heart & Warrior Spirit w/ Dan Millman EP 1217

Today’s guest is Dan Millman. He’s a former world champion athlete, university coach, martial arts instructor, and college professor. After an intensive, twenty-year spiritual quest, Dan’s teaching found its form as the Peaceful Warrior’s Way. He’s written eighteen books, including the best-seller Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which had a big impact on my life years ago. He’s back with a memoir called Peaceful Heart, Warrior Spirit: The True Story of My Spiritual Quest which is all about Dan’s search for meaning in the modern world. That’s something I believe each and everyone of us can relate to. In this episode we discuss the interesting approach to overcoming the fear of other people’s opinions, how Dan’s definition of a purposeful life has become clearer over 75 years and what gets in the way of most of living meaningful life, how to reshape your negative beliefs and build up your self worth, how to develop what Dan calls a peaceful heart and a warrior spirit and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1217Get Dan's new book: https://www.peacefulwarrior.com/peaceful-heart-warrior-spiritThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,217 with Dan Millman. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:28Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back, my friend. Today's guest is Dan Millman. He is a former world champion athlete, university coach, martial arts instructor, and college professor. And after an intense 20-year spiritual quest, Dan's teachings found its form as The Peaceful Warrior's Way. And he's written 18 books, including the bestseller Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which is one of my favorites, which had a big impact on my life when I read it many years ago. And he's back with a new memoir called Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit, The True Story of My Spiritual Quest, which is all about Dan's search for meaning in a modern world. And that's something I believe each and every one of us can relate to. It's a book that I loved going through, and I loved this interview.

• 1:12Lewis Howes?

  So much wisdom from what Dan has to share. In this episode, we discuss the interesting approach to overcoming the fear of other people's opinions. And I think everyone should try this approach. It's something new that I hadn't heard, that I really loved, that I want to try myself. How Dan's definition of a purposeful life has become clearer over 75 years, and what gets in the way for most of us for living a meaningful life. How to reshape your negative beliefs and build up your self-worth, which I know holds a lot of people back these days. How to develop what Dan calls a peaceful heart and a warrior spirit. That and so much more. I was so inspired. Again, I really love this message. I hope you're getting a lot out of these interviews. Every week, we try to bring you the most inspirational, inspiring guests we can find.

• 1:58Lewis Howes?

  And if you're enjoying this at any moment and you can think of a friend or two, or you want to post this on social media, then please share this message out there. You can post it over on Instagram stories and tag the link wherever you're listening to this episode, you can post it on, you know, your WhatsApp group chats on Facebook, wherever you want to post it, get this message out there to someone that you think would be inspired by this as well. And I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week, Mo. And Mo said, what I look for the most in a podcast is being able to take something away from any episode that I can actually apply to my life. And this happens every time with the School of Greatness. It's so informative, thought provoking, and always inspiring. So a big shout out to Mo for being a fan of the week, leaving a review over on Apple Podcasts. Thank you so much for your reviews.

• 2:41Lewis Howes?

  And if you want a chance to be shouted out, then make sure to leave a review of what you thought about this episode today. And make sure to subscribe as well over on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or as well over on YouTube as we're about to cross 2 million subscribers over there. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dan Millman. 2022 is going to be a big year for a lot of businesses, but some industries are projected to grow even more this year, like digital events and conferences. And we've seen that firsthand here at Greatness Media. Sustainability, new eco-friendly products are popping up left and right, fitness, especially health and wellness apps, and more. If you work for or own a business in one of these growing industries or a wide range

• 3:25Lewis Howes?

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• 4:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I am very excited about our guest. Dan Millman is in the house. Thanks so much for being here, Dan.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  You bet Louis, it's always a pleasure.

• 4:17Lewis Howes?

  I'm excited because we've, you've been on a couple of times now and I've been a fan of you personally. I've been a fan of your message and your work.

• 4:29Lewis Howes?

  You know, your, your books have been very impactful. Way of the Peaceful Warrior was a, a so inspiring for me. And you've got a new book out called Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirits. And there is a saying out there, I may butcher the saying, but it, it's a saying that says it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war. And I'm curious, does that resonate with you in any way about having a peaceful heart and a warrior spirit? And what does that really mean? Is it connected to that in any way?

• 5:02Speaker 01

  Well, I like that saying. It has a nice resonance and balance. And yes, I, I love to have the opportunity to explain what I mean.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  You know, way back when, when I was a young college professor in Oberlin, Ohio, I taught a martial arts course, basically Aikido and Tai Chi. And they're both internal arts. I was going to call the course, The Way of the Warrior, which makes sense. But it didn't quite fit because they're internal martial arts. They're not really aggressive arts. And then a light bulb went on and I said, hey, why don't I call it The Way of a Peaceful Warrior? To add some balance. But it wasn't until years later that I wrote a book and decided to use that term as the, the title. But people asked me, what do you mean peaceful warrior?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  And so over time it evolved and I, I got more insights and. It's like we're all peaceful warriors in training. Whether one would label themselves such or not, I view everyone that way because everyone I know is seeking to live with a more peaceful heart, a sense of serenity, equanimity, balance in the chaos and changes of the world, since change comes at us in waves that we can't control or predict, as many of us have learned recently, but we can learn to surf those waves. And so that's the idea of a peaceful heart.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  And there are times in our lives, not just athletes, like you and me, former athletes, but there are times anyone needs a warrior's spirit. And it's not about fighting. It's not about a battle, except maybe the internal demons of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, those kinds of things. But really, it's about rolling up our sleeves, standing up tall inside of ourselves and marching into everyday life and doing what we need to do with that kind of spirit. So that's why I view everyone as a peaceful warrior in training.

• 7:00Lewis Howes?

  You mentioned these kind of inner demons that we all face. What do you think is the strongest demon that each one of us needs to learn how to overcome?

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Probably some form of fear, including self-doubt. That can be a big one. You know, Customato, the boxing coach, once said, "Heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear. They just respond differently." And so the focus of my work recently, after working with the four primary mentors in my life over a 20-year period that I describe in the new book, what I've come to is that we have less control over our thoughts that just appear in our mind, in our awareness, and less control over the emotions we happen to be feeling in any given moment. We can't just change them by willing them to change instantly.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  We don't have a spam filter in our head to stop certain thoughts. So rather than focus on what we have less control over,

• 8:04Speaker 01

  I believe in focusing on what we have more control over, which is our behavior, what we actually do. And so that's, that's become an emphasis in my work of late. And it really does simplify life. You know, Barbara Rasp, the writer, once said, "The lesson is simple, the student is complicated." And that's true of all of us. We complicate everything. And so I'm striving for simplicity, directness, clarity by life skills, spiritual life skills we didn't learn in school necessarily. And so that's what I've gained, that kind of insight after working with these mentors over, as I said, several decades.

• 8:42Lewis Howes?

  And what do these mentors teach you about overcoming fear and self doubt? Or what did you discover within your own lessons and own failures and learnings on how to overcome failure and self doubt? So that it doesn't consume you or control you?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Early on, in the memoir, in the new book, early on, I go into my foundations as a young risk taker who was almost left the planet when I was still in diapers, running after a bouncing ball in the street till my dad grabbed me. But I had a, I had a role model named Steve Yusau when I was about five or six years old. He was seven or eight. He was streetwise, you know? And he and his friends, I'd follow them around. And he and his friends found a home under construction in our neighborhood and they climbed to the roof naturally and there was a huge sand pile below. And I climbed up with them.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  I managed to get up there and they, Steve jumped off and sunk up to his knees in the sand pile and his friends followed. And then they said, "Come on Danny," you know? And so I got, I went to the edge and I, I wanted to so badly. I wanted to jump, but I was so afraid. I stepped back, then I stepped forward again and stepped back. And he finally yelled something I never forgot. He said, "Danny, stop thinking and jump."

• 10:05Speaker 01

  And a light bulb went on. It was like, I could do that. I just stopped my thinking about it and bent my knees and pushed and jumped. And that became like a master metaphor. It became a meme kind of in my life. Stop thinking and jump. And I trained my gymnast to do that when I was coaching at Stanford University. When I knew they were prepared to do something, but there was still the fear.

• 10:28Lewis Howes?

  What if we don't feel prepared to do something?

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Right. Now, that's different. There's a saying that fear is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. And it can serve us. I mean, if our fear is physical, if we could be injured or killed doing something, fear may be a wise counselor saying, wait a minute, step away from this. You're not ready yet. Or prepare better, or take precautions, or be especially alert. If it's something we really want to do, but if we're not prepared yet, then we avoid it. So if the fear is physical, we need to listen to our fears. If we could be injured or killed, they may guide us. If we're walking down one dark street in a part of the city we're not familiar with, and we get a weird feeling about to go around a corner,

• 11:14Speaker 01

  we might want to listen to that and go wide around the corner or cross the street, that sort of thing. But if the fear is subjective, if we're afraid of looking foolish, or being embarrassed, or ashamed, or awkward, just do it anyway. Because it doesn't break bones. So we're embarrassed. So, you know, I've been embarrassed many times, and I write about that in the book as well. So those are the two kinds of approaches. When do you know when to listen to fear? When do you cut through it? And that's how I differentiate.

• 11:43Lewis Howes?

  Why do you think so many people are crippled by the fear of judgment of other people? The embarrassment, what people will think about them, how those, what they'll say about them? Why do you think so many people? Will wait in decades to actually start a project, a creative endeavor, writing their book that they've been dreaming about for so long, out of the insecurity of someone else's opinion.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  I could theorize about why other people do it, but I do know that I've faced it myself. And yet, as a gymnast, I failed. And as a football player, former football player, you faced it too. I failed 50 times a day. I tried something, I messed up, I fell, I crashed, and I kept doing it. So failure to me was just a stepping stone to where I was going. But many people haven't really encountered a lot of that, and they just want to succeed, and they feel their identity is on the line, their self-worth is on the line. And they put too much on the line. To me, it was all play. You mess up, and you do better next time. So I think, you know, there's one fundamental kind of

• 12:51Speaker 01

  fear, well, there's several actually, but the fear of public speaking. One Canadian study found that it was rated slightly higher than the fear of death.

• 12:59Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 13:01Speaker 01

  Because when we're speaking in public, all these people seem to be judging us. What if they don't like us? Oh, my God, we might as well roll over and die. But the fact is, if we focus more on the task at hand, of giving to them, rather than what they think of us. If it's all about me, how do I look? Do they like me? You know, how do I sound? Then we can get all nervous about that. But that's the one kind of fear. But it also is related to self-doubt. And it's related to the god of opinion. You know, you've heard that saying, what other people think of us is none of our business.

• 13:37Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  But most people don't believe that. They put the best self forward on Instagram, on Facebook, or whatever, because they want to look good to everybody else, thinking everyone will like them if they look good. But sometimes, if we look too good, other people feel bad around us. They compare themselves. And there is an exercise one can do to free yourself from the god of opinion. So you can begin to trust the god of your heart. All right, and this, by the way, this actually works. It sounds silly, but it works. Um, you make a little altar in your room. And maybe put a white cloth on it, some incense, a flower, whatever. Make an altar. Then you make a little god of opinion and you put it on the altar.

• 14:21Speaker 01

  It can look like Darth Vader or a clay figure or put someone's picture on it who represents the god of opinion. And every morning, when you get up, you get on your hands and knees in front of this altar before you start your day. You bow down, touch your head to the floor, as ridiculous as it may feel, and you go, "How am I doing, god of opinion? Am I okay? Do I look okay? Do I sound okay? Do you approve of me?" Now, if someone comes, walks in on you when you're doing that, it's like, "Whoa, what are you doing?" And it's like, "Oh, I'm just worshiping my god of opinion." And that's even better. But let's say no one walks in. You do it privately. You don't have to do it the rest of your life, just for a week or two.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  But what happens is during the day, when you confront somebody and they seem to be judging you and you're worried about their opinion, you can say to yourself, "Wait a minute, they look a lot like the god of opinion, but it couldn't be because I know where it is. I left it back on my altar this morning. And here's the key, I've already worshipped it today. I already did that. Do I want to do it again?" What this exercise does, it works at a subconscious level because that little inner child, our subconscious mind, likes humor and it likes symbolic imagery. And this has both. So this actually can help cure the worshiping the god of opinion and start paying attention to our own inner knower.

• 15:45Lewis Howes?

  I love this example and exercise. I don't think it's too crazy. I think I'm always exploring and trying new things like that in my own way. So I think that's a beautiful exercise. I think people should try that 100%. If there's been something that's been holding you back from the opinions of others, peers, family, friends, social media, whatever it is, uh, practice it. Try it for a day, try it for a week and see what happens. Do you ever feel, uh, that insecurity at your life, at this stage of your life from the opinions of other people when you're putting out a new project or speaking or anything like that? Or have you mastered that?

• 16:22Speaker 01

  I only feel insecure around my wife.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  That's about the only time. I just am so focused on sharing with people that the insecurity or doubt just never comes up. And even if it does, I've learned, and you know, really, I learned that God of Opinion exercise from one of the mentors I call the Warrior Priest. And I found out it really works. And I learned from the mentor I call the Sage, who I met more recently,

• 16:56Speaker 01

  some other principles. And so even if I feel self doubt, I've learned three things that are very, very effective for functioning well in life, despite the feelings or thoughts, positive or negative, which is to accept my thoughts, positive or negative, and my feelings as natural to me in that moment. Now, when I say accept them, I mean, as I might in meditation, notice them. They're there, not denying them or ignoring them or running from them, just notice they're coming up. The second thing is, what is my purpose? What is my goal or aim? And the third is, doing what needs to be done in line with my purpose. It sounds very simple, it's not so easy.

• 17:40Speaker 01

  But by doing that, we learn to function well in life despite conflicting thoughts and feelings, all those complications.

• 17:49Lewis Howes?

  So the three things, accept your thoughts and feelings.

• 17:52Speaker 01

  Yes, as natural to you.

• 17:54Lewis Howes?

  Maybe you don't, maybe you don't want to continue on with those thoughts and feelings, but accept that they're happening, you're feeling them, you're thinking these things, that's step one. Notice them, really. Number two is, go back to thinking about your purpose. What is my purpose? And then step three is to start taking actions and steps

• 18:13Speaker 01

  In line.

• 18:14Lewis Howes?

  that are in alignment of your purpose.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  Right, it's respectful of the individual. Not in alignment with Dan Millman's philosophy or what you read in a book or scripture. I mean, it's basically just what is your purpose? A constructive purpose and then do what needs to be done. We've all done that. We've taken out the trash or done our work or gone to, gone to school or whatever it is. When we weren't, when we're tired or not feeling like it, we've all done that. So we know how to do that. You know, there's, there's a saying, a man named Shomo Marita once said, "When running up a hill, it's okay to give up as many times as you want, as long as your feet keep moving."

• 18:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, absolutely. Do you feel like we can control our thoughts and our feelings?

• 19:00Speaker 01

  Absolutely not. I know there are many books around or people who will tell you how to feel more resourceful feelings and feel this and feel that so you can finally live well. And how to quiet the mind or think more positively. I personally, in my own experience, have found that neither I nor anyone else I've ever seen has a spam filter in their head can just say, "Oh, I don't want to think that thought anymore." In fact, the best way to become obsessed is to try not to think a given thought all day.

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:33Speaker 01

  So rather than focus on that, trying to control what we have little control over by our will, is because feelings and thoughts change all the time. They come and they go. They don't stay with us unless we're, you know, what you fight, what you resist persists, that old saying. So rather than trying to fix my thoughts and feelings, there's another way to liberate ourselves, literally, from that. Now, feelings can be very valuable. I mean, they have information. If I'm feeling depressed or angry when I'm around a particular person, there is some action I may need to take, something I may need to express or change. So feelings have information. I'm not saying deny or ignore them. But to try to change them...

• 20:19Speaker 01

  You know, if there were a terrible storm outside right now and a lot of destruction, would it be your fault? Would it be my fault? I don't think so. And why not? Because we have no control over the weather. We, unless we're Storm, I guess, in the X-Men or something, you know, she could control the weather. If we could, we'd have some control, but we can't control the weather. Therefore, we're not responsible for it.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  So we can probably agree on this, that we are responsible for what we can control, not responsible for what we can't control. And so if we come to accept this idea, many people haven't thought about it. I know I hadn't, until the sage exposed me to these ideas, but I realized that thoughts just come and go. And one problem with many teenagers, and adults as well, is they feel too responsible for the wild and crazy thoughts and feelings they're having, and not responsible enough for what they actually do. And they use emotions or negative thoughts as an excuse to not do what they need to do. So there is a way, an approach to simplify our lives and just focus.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  The one question, the key question in my life in any given moment is, what do I need to do now?

• 21:38Speaker 01

  And do that, to the best of my ability. And there are tricks, there are ways, there are hacks. For example, I recommend to people, "Dream big, but start small, and then connect the dots." A little of something is better than a lot of nothing.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  Right. What if someone is saying, "Well, I feel like I don't, I can't manage my thoughts and my feelings, and it's consuming me so much that I just feel stressed out, or anxious, or worried all the time." How do we then, I guess, redirect our thoughts and our feelings into a more peaceful, peaceful heart, I guess?

• 22:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, the peaceful heart is not always a feeling of serenity. It's a way we behave. Let me give an example. A young man came up to me after I gave a talk at a college. And he said, "Dan, I, I think you mentioned you have done consultations with people one-on-one at times, but you must charge a lot of money for your time. I'm a poor college student, so what can you tell me for a dollar?" And he gave me his dollar. And I told him six words that could change his life. I gave him a lifetime practice in six words. "I'm still practicing." And those six words are here and now. Breathe and relax.

• 23:01Speaker 01

  And that is an entire teaching. The here and now part, most people say, "Oh yeah, I know that already. I know it's good to live in the present moment." But many people don't really understand what that's about and why. And for example, technically, a physicist will tell you, "There's no such thing as the present moment." Because what nanosecond can we grab hold of? You know, a millionth of a second.

• 23:24Lewis Howes?

  It's gone, it's gone.

• 23:25Speaker 01

  It's gone, it's gone. So what teachers like myself, what we say is, "Just handle what's in front of you." Because past and future do not exist. They literally do not exist. The past is always going to be past. The future is always going to be future. There's no such thing as future happiness. We're either happy now, or we're not. We're either strong now, or we're not. It's not a matter of, "I will get that way later in the future." So what do we bring to that? How do we know? Well, first of all, when I say they don't exist, what we call the past is a set of neural impulses in our brain. We call memory. And someone can show me a picture of their 10th birthday party and say, "Look, I know the past is real.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  I can show you this picture. But what's actually happening is I'm looking at a picture in this present moment, and they are showing it to me in this present moment, a visual image." But that was, it's still a memory. Nothing wrong with the past. It's a great human capacity to remember, to learn, to reflect on, to ruminate on the past, but not to mistake it for reality. And the same with the future. We can plan our day. We can use our imagination about the future. But the future never comes. It's always our imagination. We can, even if we plan our day, we don't want to become too attached to the plans. Because they have a way of changing, don't they? We intend one thing, something comes up.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  So by focusing on the present moment, the here and now, that's our moment of power. It's our moment of reality, our moment of sanity. We can always handle this moment. When we're concerned about a toxic meeting we're going to go into, we're not looking forward to it, it's not happening right now. You know, I was in Costa Rica, teaching a workshop there some years ago. And one of the things we did was a zip line. You know what zip lines are? You go up in a big platform and link up to this line and leap off, you know, 30 feet in the air and zoom down this line. Well, it's kind of scary. And she'd never done this before. We had our harnesses on, our safety harnesses, which they hook us up to. And we were walking up this gigantic tree, like in Middle Earth.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  It was a spiral staircase going up this tree. And as we were walking up, she said, "Oh, I'm so nervous. I'm really getting scared." And I went, "I don't understand. Haven't you ever walked upstairs before?" And she went, "Oh, yeah, I've walked upstairs." I said, "Well, that's all we're doing right now." She went, "Oh, okay." So she relaxed for a little while. We got to the top on the big platform. People were going off. And they hooked us up to a cable at the center of the tree, around the tree, so we wouldn't fall off the platform. And then she saw somebody leaping off and she went, "Oh, I'm getting scared again." And I said, "I don't understand. The only way we can get hurt standing here is to take off our helmets and bang our head against the tree." And she went, "Oh, okay." Brought her back to the present again.

• 26:24Speaker 01

  And finally, she was standing on the edge, ready to leap off. They'd hooked her up to the line. And I went, "Now you can be scared. At least it's appropriate in the moment, you know?" So by focusing on the moment, it simplifies our life. This is the moment of power to focus on our, not our cosmic purpose or ultimate purpose or 20-year goal, but focus on what I need to do now. What is my purpose right now? My purpose is very clear. So is yours.

• 26:50Lewis Howes?

  Has your definition of purposeful life or meaningful life changed over the last 20, 30 years? Or has it always been the same?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  No, it's changed. It's evolved like everything else.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  It's become clarified more than changed. Uh, my sense of what it means to have a purpose. I reflecting on my little granddaughter when she was in diapers crawling across the floor. Um, it struck me that she wasn't doing this to exercise. She wanted something, some sparkly little thing she was crawling toward. And I believe from, from infancy, we're hardwired goal seekers. We're happiest when we're pursuing a goal. Those people who feel most fulfilled aren't just those who've reached a destination, but those who have, are moving toward it. In fact, I define success as making progress toward a meaningful goal.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  And you know, in the Peaceful Warrior movie, you may recall a moment when the character Dan is walking up this big hill with, with the man I called Socrates, um, played by Nick Nolte, you know? And Dan has this realization, he said, Sock, you know? I just realized it's, it's the journey that makes us happy, not the destination. And that's, that's a bit of wisdom because most of our lives are spent on the journey. But without a destination in mind, there is no journey. We just wander around. So from our point A, we need a point B to be going toward, even if it's just in the next five minutes. And by doing that with quality, it pulls us into the zone

• 28:30Speaker 01

  like we experience as athletes in everyday life. And it helps us to live purposefully. You know, one of my books is titled Living on Purpose. One is The Four Purposes of Life. Another is The Life You Were Born to Live. So a lot of my work has developed in this area of living a purposeful life.

• 28:48Lewis Howes?

  What do you think it's in the way of people living a meaningful, purposeful life?

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Well, as you probably know, I'm sure you do. Uh, things like doubt, like insecurity, these blocks that we put in our own way. What if fear of failure and maybe even fear of success at times? Because what if we succeed and we're not happy? What do we do next? So sometimes we get in our own way, step on our own feet, put our foot in our mouth and self sabotage. So, life can be very simple if we just focus on what is my purpose? Not just what does someone else want me to do? And what is my purpose? And then moving toward that. And I believe that sense of a purpose for life gives us a sense of fulfillment.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Because people who get things done, that may not sound that sexy or spiritual, you know, to finish what you start. But people who get things done have a default sense of fulfillment that's greater than those who don't get things done.

• 29:47Lewis Howes?

  And why do you think so many people self sabotage? And how do we overcome sabotaging ourselves?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Well, and I have given this some thought. So, I believe one of the fundamental elements, in fact, I wrote a book called Everyday Enlightenment, which has 12 gateways to personal growth. And the first one in that book is discovering our worth, appreciating our worth, not a sense of entitlement. I'm talking about appreciating our innate worth as a human being. I often remind people that each of us has a story. And that story is unique. It's like no other on the planet. Not a single other person on the planet has exactly our story. And it's sort of our treasure.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  We don't just have a story, we're a story in the making. We're like a novel being written. And we never know what the next chapter is going to be. But I think we need to appreciate that story and the value of it. And we've all had quiet moments of courage, of heroism, overcoming adversity. We've all had those. You know, sometimes in a seminar, I'll say, please raise your hand if you've experienced physical, emotional, or mental pain in your life. Of course, all the hands go up. But yet, I think we could agree that because of that difficulty, that challenge we've all faced, we're a little bit stronger now, a little bit wiser now. And having a bigger sense of perspective for having gone through that. Sometimes digging out of a dark hole can give us the strength to climb the mountain.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  That's my experience. And I've had my dark moments as well. And I wrote about it in Way of the Peaceful Warrior and in the new book, in the memoir.

• 31:31Lewis Howes?

  We talked about fear of failure, fear of success, and the fear of other people's opinions or judgment from other people. Which one do you think is the biggest fear to overcome for a majority of people, of those three?

• 31:45Speaker 01

  I wouldn't want to hypothesize because each person is individual. And it's... Well, I was mentioning self-worth.

• 31:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  When we grow up, we've done kind acts in our lives, we've done unkind acts. All of us at times have been callous. You know, somebody came up to me once and said, "Dan, you know, you seem like a nice guy." I said, "Sometimes." Because we're sometimes this and sometimes that. That's natural. And we, you know, nobody is standing over us with a notebook judging every time we've done a kind act or an unkind act. And/or shirked responsibility, or showed lack of integrity, all those things. But somebody is keeping track, we are. And what happens is, we each have a sense, a limited sense of deservedness. There's a saying, "We don't get what we deserve in life, we get what we're willing to negotiate."

• 32:42Speaker 01

  And what we're willing to negotiate depends on that sense of deservedness. How much do I deserve of success? And again, it's not entitlement, it's just innate value as a human being. And if I were to ask a group of people, and I have done so, give yourself on a 1 to 100 scale, rate yourself, what's your level of deservedness? Give yourself a number. Rarely do I, people say honestly, sincerely, 100. Usually it's 98, or 26, or 72, or whatever it is. And, you know, Ramakrishna, the Indian saint, once said, "An ocean of abundance can be pouring down from the heavens, but if you're only holding up a thimble, that's all you're going to get."

• 33:26Speaker 01

  And so that's what that limitations we place on ourselves. When something good happens, we go, this can't last. Or when's the other shoe gonna drop? Or I'm starting to get uncomfortable with all this good stuff. I need to make it more difficult. We don't do that consciously, of course. We don't wake up one morning saying, I think I'll sabotage my relationship today. Oh, no, I did that last week. I think I'll do my finances today. It's all, it's operating on the subconscious level based on the sense of deservedness or self-worth. That's where self-sabotage comes from. Now, you may say, well, if it's subconscious, how can we change it? Well, it's not really about a feeling of self-worth. By the way, it's not the same as self-esteem.

• 34:10Speaker 01

  That's more like confidence and liking ourself. But this deeper sense of deservedness, that's, that's gonna be key in our lives. And you know, I would just recommend as a practice, put up a little post-it on your mirror in the bathroom. And every morning when you get up, you read this and it says, how good can I stand it today? And that's how good you'll get it. So that's, that's what I, I suggest. It's a matter of when someone offers us a pen, because we don't have one, instead of, oh, oh, I couldn't take, accept that. It's, thank you. It's saying to life more, yes, thank you, yes, thank you. And opening up to that, that, that we deserve it, not because we've led perfect lives

• 34:55Speaker 01

  or always been nice to everyone, but because we're a human being doing the best we can with what we're given that day.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  I mean, how does someone really learn to develop their own self-worth and appreciate their worth? So they, they can believe they are deserving of what they want? And they believe they are deserving to negotiate more of what they want?

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, that's, that's really a tough one, about believing that. Now, there are people who will tell you, there are trainings that work with belief structures and discreating unressourcable beliefs and creating more useful beliefs, more complications. You don't have to always feel worthy. You don't. That's why, see, all I can do as a teacher of this kind of practical, some say spiritual wisdom, all I can do is remind people of what they already sense or know at some level, but they tend to forget. I offer observations and reminders, so I'm offering the reminder now. And that's other than putting that posted on your mirror.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  It's just remembering this issue of self-worth, remembering how we can sabotage ourselves because of this subconscious tendency. And any habit like this can be challenging to overcome. For example, here's another habit. That's not the same thing. I'm going a bit off topic, but it's related. One of the most heartfelt things I beg people to do is to stop comparing yourself to other people. Because if you do, and look what happens, people get depressed. We know, young people on Facebook and Instagram and Snapchat and all that. Because everyone else seems to be having such a fantastic time. But they don't realize everyone has their inner battles.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Everyone, no matter how good their act looks like on the outside. And so when we compare ourselves to someone else, we're either going to feel superior or inferior.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  And it's a profound disrespect for our own process. For example,

• 37:05Speaker 01

  when I was a coach at Stanford, I taught beginning gymnastics classes. And eventually, I taught some of these young kids how to do back somersaults. And I noticed that some of them learned the somersault faster than others.

• 37:20Speaker 01

  But often, those who took longer to learn it, learned it better than those who learned it faster. Interesting. So we need to, that's another reminder. We need to trust our way of learning and our way of living, to trust our own process and who we are. Which is why, well, one of the fundamental tenets of this approach to living that I call the peaceful warrior's way is that there is no best teacher, no best book, no best philosophy, no best religion, no best diet, no best exercise form, no best martial art. There is only the best for each of us at a given time of our life. Life's an experiment. We have to find out what works for us.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  So I'm back to that topic of self-trust. And yes, we'll have doubts, we'll have insecurities in various situations. Like an athlete may be very confident on the field, but maybe not so much at a party. Or it's for some, it's the opposite. So we all have our situations. That's old saying, what is it? We're all ignorant only on different subjects. So we're human beings and we need to give ourselves a pat on the back and cut ourselves a little slack at times.

• 38:34Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. What's the thing that we should write on our mirrors?

• 38:39Speaker 01

  How good, how good can I stand it today?

• 38:43Lewis Howes?

  How good can I stand it today? I like that. What happens, do you think, for people when they start making that switch? Not, oh, here we go again. I hope it's not a horrible day again. But instead, how good can I have it today?

• 38:58Speaker 01

  Well, in another one of my books, I write something I call the Margaret analogy. And the way it works is this, you know, people ask me, Dan, if you had an enlightenment experience. I go, no, my life is more like a dimmer switch being turned up and then down slightly and then up a little brighter and then down slightly. So it's, it's more, you know, two steps forward, one step back kind of thing. But in this Margaret analogy, I coached a diver, a springboard diver named Margaret at Oberlin College. And the way she learned a new dive is first she would go up and just go splat in the water, trying it. She'd have no idea what she did wrong, how to improve it. She'd need me, the coach, who watched her and she'd say, what did I do, coach?

• 39:41Speaker 01

  And I'd explain to her and then she'd say, thanks. And she'd try it a few more times. And then as she improved, while she was messing up, she noticed it. Oh, I'm doing that again and splat.

• 39:54Lewis Howes?

  In the air, she's noticing it.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  She's noticing it in the air. Oh, I'm doing it again. And we've all had that experience. Here I go again, right? And what you said, um, so after more practice, she's able to notice it earlier and correct for it and compensate for it. But it takes a while. So people shouldn't think they hear something, um, hear me speaking now or read a book and suddenly they're gonna just, their life is mastered now because it takes time to overcome inertia, old habits, ways of doing things.

• 40:31Speaker 01

  So there's that in-between period and we have to understand that. You know, I learned something when I was sixty years old, which was about fifteen years ago. When I turned sixty, I wanted to do something special. So a friend of mine loaned me his unicycle at my request. And I wanted to learn to ride a unicycle. And he recommended I practice in a tennis court. Because it's good level ground and I could get a death grip on the chain link fence. While I'm trying to stay atop this thing. Now, I don't know if you have ever tried that Louis, or any of your listeners. But it's humbling, believe me. You just, you get up on it and it goes out from under you. So, I practiced every day, I came back.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  And I, at the end of the first week, I could pedal six times careening forward before it went down. And then the second week, I think I got twelve pedals. I was thrilled, twelve pedals. By the third week, to make the story short, I was doing figure eights on the unicycle around the tennis court. Took me three weeks, every day. And I learned two things from this experience. That I'd learned years before in gymnastics, but I'd forgotten. Because it's easy to forget. I learned first of all, that everything is difficult until it becomes easy. And that's everything we do. Changing habits, whatever. The second thing I learned was maybe even more interesting.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  I found there were certain days, two or three days during those three weeks. Where everything fell apart. I was worse physically. I was confused mentally. I don't know what happened, I was better the week, you know, week before. It was very discouraging. But I kept coming back. But then I realized, noticing this pattern. That the day after, after those so-called bad days. I made a breakthrough. A jump in learning. And I realized the learning was actually happening on those so-called bad days. That's when it was, the information was going from my front brain, the cognitive part, thinking about it. Analyzing it, to the back brain, which is more automatic. Into my instincts. Like learning to drive a gear shift car in the old days, you know?

• 42:46Speaker 01

  So, that can happen, that those crisis times, it seemed to be worse. In a relationship, for example. Or in learning any kind of skill. Where you feel all confused and you feel worse. You know, sometimes we feel like we're getting worse, going vegetating, even going backwards. But we may be backing up to get a running start. So we persist through that difficult time and we have breakthroughs in relationships, new levels of intimacy and so on. So just to push on, that's where our feet keep moving.

• 43:22Lewis Howes?

  Right. I thought you were in your 50s. You look amazing for 75, you said?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:29Lewis Howes?

  75.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  Genetics and, and you know, decent life habits, nothing extreme, but good life habits.

• 43:36Lewis Howes?

  Good mindset, habits, environment, quality of relationships, good sleep, hopefully.

• 43:42Lewis Howes?

  What have been the, the, I guess, I mean, at 75, what have been, what are the new lessons you're learning at this season of life? That were different than 40, 45?

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Well, one thing I realized in my relationship with my wife, Joy, of 46 years and, but who's counting? I, I, it took me 25 years probably to realize she was not criticizing me. She was improving me. That's part of her job and hopefully I serve some of the same capacity, but she's taken that on, that, that task. And with the new book, Joy read every single draft of the nine drafts I did, cutting the new book down from a, of an over bloated 500 pages down to, from a, a, a, yeah, from a hedge, a big thick hedge to a 200, weighing in a 200 pages to a bonsai.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  I wanted to just trim it down. You know, Jack London wants it. It takes hard writing to make easy reading. And I did the work. So Joy read every single draft and made suggestions. So I'm still learning, always learning. Anybody who presumes to teach needs to keep learning. And Joy even weighed in when, around the seventh draft, she said, Dan, I remember things, you know, she was with me through my time with the four mentors as well. And she said, I remember things that just have a different sensibility. I remember this differently from you. And she said, what if I wrote something in the book? And I went, what a great idea. So she also, it's unusual for memoir, but she also added about 10 pages overall, sprinkled throughout the 200 pages of the book.

• 45:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I see Joey's notes at the end, at the end of some of these chapters, her notes, which is kinda cool.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 45:33Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna be forty in a year and two months. And it's hard, it's hard for me to even, it's hard for me to even contemplate that because I just feel like I'm still in my, I don't know, twenties, early twenties still.

• 45:45Speaker 01

  Good, good, yeah.

• 45:47Lewis Howes?

  What are three things you wish you did, didn't do, or implemented as you went into forty for the next thirty-five years of your life?

• 46:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good question because I have more of my life to look back on than forward to in all likelihood. And that's why it seemed time to write a memoir. But my forty-year-old self, I would congratulate myself on reaching a certain level of maturity. You know, in our twenties, we're kinda bulletproof. We can do anything. And we, we learn that's not necessarily the wisest course sometimes.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  In our thirties, early thirties, we become more reflective, more contemplative. We, we're ready to take on life in a, in a different way than just the playtime of the twenties. And at forty, I think there's, there's also a place of maturity.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  For you, it probably won't even be midlife yet. But it, it's getting to those places where we really wonder.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  You know, one of the books I wrote with my daughter is called The Creative Compass. And it's about writing your way from inspiration to publication, but it's about creativity. And I'll, I'll get to the point of this in a moment. She, Sierra, my daughter, very, very smart young lady, she, who just turned forty recently too. And, and she structured the book around five stages of any creative process. The first is dreaming, coming up with ideas, lightbulb moments.

• 47:30Speaker 01

  You have to get some idea, you know, what you, what you wanna do. And especially in writing or creating anything.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  The second is drafting.

• 47:43Speaker 01

  Which is bringing it into the world from the ethers, from nothing to something. So you sit down usually and you record it or you type on a keyboard and you bring these ideas into life. The problem with that is sometimes that castle in your mind, it looks like more like a garden shed when you've actually written it down. And that's when you have to renovate. That takes you to the third phase of the creative process, which is development, development. Which is when you step back and you say, is this the vision I wanted to convey? And then finally you go to the refining stage, that's the fourth stage, polishing and so on.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And then finally sharing it with the world, the fifth stage. Now, the reason I mentioned that, it seems like a non sequitur, but you in your 40s are at the development stage. You're looking back at your life and is this what I want to do? I hope it is because you do it so well, Lewis. Is this what I want to do? Do I want to make some fundamental changes in life? You're really going, you've developed some momentum as well and experience. Do I want to tackle the way I do it in a little different way? How can I improve? So that's what I would say to my younger self is to trust that. Trust the process exactly where you are.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  And remember you are still young from my perspective.

• 49:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Is there any other lessons you wish you knew when you hit 40? That maybe were hard lessons to learn in your 40s, 50s or 60s?

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Again, you're getting insight into my thinking process because it's going to seem like another brief tangent. But I came across a quotation by Gold of my hair. I used to be more of a humble person. But then she said, "Stop acting so humble. You're not that great." And the reason I bring that up, the reason I bring that up in response to your question, Lewis, is that I want to say, "Don't worry. It's not that important."

• 49:55Speaker 01

  We, you know, the world isn't riding on it. It may seem to be so. It seemed to me, oh, when I was really involved with my books, I was writing almost a book a year and I was going to save the world and turn people's lives around. And maybe I have influenced some people. But nothing is that important. It's all a form of play. You know, we're here on earth. We don't know why. It's a bit of a mystery. We have a certain amount of time. Let's not be too desperate. Let's, let's relax a little bit and, and enjoy the show. You know, that's, that's what I did on trampoline from a beginner kid just jumping up and down. I describe in the book to, at a world championship. The book opens in midair, you know, at the world championship.

• 50:39Speaker 01

  But it was all play. We're just having a great time. And yeah, I was working. It was some effort, but it was all this sense of play. And that's what I would say in their 40s. It's a good time to remember that.

• 50:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Do you feel like, you know, working on all these books you've written, do you feel like they were all play when you're in the middle of it? Or did you get lost in maybe the stress or the, you know, worry of, of making sure you've created more and more?

• 51:07Speaker 01

  Good question, because no, I, I associated trampoline with play. But writing is, writing is difficult. In fact, Thomas Mann, a Nobel Prize winning author, once said, "Writers are those for whom writing is more difficult than for other people." Because they're trying to do it well. And you know, in our, in our little book, The Creative Compass, one chapter is, "Permit yourself to write badly, so that one day you may write well." Permit yourself to write badly. Those who write a first draft, you know, Hemingway said, "The first draft of anything is crap."

• 51:45Speaker 01

  So, and Ray Bradbury said, "Writing consists of two phases, throwing up and cleaning up." And I found that to be true in my own case. So, but writing is difficult. And yet, so is gymnastics, so is trampoline, so is football, so is life. It can be difficult at times, but it can still be approached with the idea. Well, let me, let me tell you a story. I was in the gymnasium and I was swinging around the high bar, getting ready to do a big dismount, like a full twisting double somersault, whatever. Socrates was there watching me in this story. His arms crossed, you know? And I do a full twisting double and I stick my landing. That's a good thing in gymnastics. So I went, "Yes!"

• 52:29Speaker 01

  And I figured that's a good place to stop for the evening. So I rip off my sweatshirt, throw it in my workout bag, and he and I are walking down the hallway afterward. And, and he said, "You know, Dan, that last move you did was really sloppy." And I went, "What are you talking about, Socrates? It was the best dismount I did in weeks." And he said, "Oh, I'm not talking about the dismount. I'm talking about the way you took off your sweatshirt and put it in your bag." And he reminded me again that I was treating one moment as special and another as ordinary, like it didn't matter. But there are no ordinary moments and it, everything matters. That doesn't mean we have to get too serious about it, or desperate,

• 53:14Speaker 01

  or craving, or clinging, or perfectionistic. But it just means, see, this, what he said after that was, he said something I never forgot. I actually got this line into the movie, you know, like two weeks before they started shooting. I wasn't the screenwriter, but the director liked the line and put it in. And Socrates says, "Dan, the difference between us is, you practice gymnastics." I practice everything.

• 53:39Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Now, what did he mean by that? Because that sounds like a never-ending obsessive self-improvement program. But that's really not what it's about. See, mostly, we do things. We do our work. We do our job. We do the laundry. We do the dishes. We do, you know, our studies. But the moment we say we're practicing something, we're doing it with the idea of improving it or refining it. How many of us refine every time we sign our name? How many of us try to do it smoother or better? Or when we walk across a room to ask ourselves, can I walk a little more smoothly? Can I sit a little more balanced? Can I breathe a little more relaxed and deeper? When we do this with a sense of play, not over seriousness, but just how can I improve?

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Like learning a backflip and improving it. What happens is it pulls us into the moment, into the zone, into the flow. And life becomes a meditation when we remember to do it. Do I remember it all the time? No, that would be idealistic. But in those moments I remember it, I have a different quality of moment, a different quality of life. Even now, I'm remembering that. And it's a good reminder we can offer ourselves every now and then.

• 54:57Lewis Howes?

  I love these stories. They give me chills about that. The movie's amazing. If people haven't watched the movie, you should go watch it and get that book as well. You talk about these additional mentors, you know, in the later phases of your life, the warrior priest and the sage. Why is it important for someone like yourself, who has been someone who has achieved at high levels from sports to teaching to writing and creating and workshops and all these different things, had a thriving marriage for 45-plus years? Why is it important for someone like, and plus many other things, a movie and all this other stuff? Why is it important for someone like you to continue?

• 55:42Lewis Howes?

  Looking for, finding mentors and learning when you are teaching so much and you've learned so much already.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Well, there's a thing, a concept, as you probably know, in the Buddhist tradition called beginner's mind. To keep the mind of a beginner. Um, so there's the old Zen story about, you know, you have to empty your cup before you can learn. Uh, the teacher pours the teacup and it overflows and so on. Um. But actually I've learned that you don't need to empty your cup. You just need to get a bigger cup. You can keep what you've learned, your life experience, but stay open to new learning. Um, and that's what I've tried to do. It, it makes no sense to lock into the role. Now I'm a teacher. I don't have to be a student anymore. Um, even after, years after I was teaching, I met some other mentors.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  I was starting to teach when I met the warrior priest. I was definitely teaching actively, the peaceful warrior's way. When I met the sage and I wasn't studying with him to improve my life. I was studying to maybe refine what I was teaching, to inform my teachings. So I could simplify further and keep things more and more practical and realistic. And he was a devotee of reality and he, he brought me down to earth from the metaphysical realms. Um, so your question is, yeah, I had a lot of success early on. It was just my destiny, if you will. I, I got lucky at the world championship as I described what happened.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Um, you know, I was in the middle of my championship routine when I completely forgot the routine. Forgot what I was doing. My mind was a total blank and I could have very well just stopped and, and hung my head down and that would have been it. But I remembered that stop thinking and jump and I just kept jumping and I kept doing flips and I just made it up as I went along. Improv. Now, people have trouble relating to that. They're used to seeing gymnastics in the Olympics. That people do routines over and over and over and rehearse and practice for their performance. But I never did. I, I used to do different routines every meet. I was, I was creative and I liked to improvisational stuff. So. I kept learning, I was all these experiences.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  And then I ended up lucking out, getting the coaching job at Stanford at twenty-two years of age. And went through many experiences, learning how to coach. Then, you know, it's funny, a lot of managers in business, I think they'd be better off considering themselves as coaching a team. And it's a beautiful and apt metaphor. It's not just fancy words, they are a coach, no different from a sports coach. And they have a team to manage. And but I think rather than a staff, you know, manager and staff, it works better to think of themselves as a team. And, yeah, so I learned a lot, you know, what prepared me was my athletic days.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  That prepared me for what I was to do later on, I didn't know it at the time, of course. But I described in the book how a Zen master knocked on my office door and said, "I have a group of students, we meditate in the mornings, could we use your floor exercise mat?" And I went, "Sure, in fact, can I join you?" And later I learned transcendental meditation and all that. This was before I met any of the mentors. So I had some background. In college, after I shattered my leg in a motorcycle crash, as many people know about who've read my work. And I describe what really happened like that in the new book. I started thinking more deeply, what is inside, what's in my psyche? I realized my own mortality.

• 59:26Speaker 01

  It shook me upward, let's say. Yes. And I actually experimented, it was back in the late sixties, I was at Berkeley. And I went to a teammate of mine, I said, "Listen, I've heard, you know, you can get some real insights with this stuff, what is it, LSD?" And I said, "Can you, can you give me any advice?" He said, "Dan, have you ever been drunk?" I went, "No, I don't really like alcohol." He said, "Have you ever been stoned?" I went, "No, I don't like having smoke in my lungs." He said, "You better get drunk and/or stoned first, better walk before you run." So I, you know, I experimented a little bit with some grass and got the munchies and experienced music for the first time in a different way.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  But the LSD trip for me was quite valuable. I don't believe in recreational drugs at all, but for a sacred purpose in the right set and setting, it was quite profound. All that happened before I met any of the mentors. But I think more than anything, what it was my commitment to share with other people. Because something hit me, I was so much into self-improvement, Lewis. Maybe you were too, you know, as a kid, I took memory courses, speed reading. I learned to juggle and do magic tricks, sleight of hand, yoyos, bullwhips, boomerangs. I just learned all these skills because I wanted to improve myself.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  And one day it struck me that no matter how much I improved myself, only one person benefited. But if I could somehow influence other people in a positive way, then look what you're doing, you know? Then it made my life more meaningful. Not everybody has that calling, that's fine, they don't need to, but for me, that was the call. And because I wanted to share anything I learned with other people, I think life opened me up to meeting these four mentors, the professor, the guru, the warrior priest, and then the sage, over a span of 20 years, intensive training. Even people have read Way of the Peaceful Warrior think, oh, Dan was this jock,

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  you know, who met this old guy in a gas station, and now he teaches spiritual stuff. But they don't understand the intense preparation and training I went through to do what I do now.

• 1:01:44Lewis Howes?

  If you could only, uh,

• 1:01:48Lewis Howes?

  let's put you in a hypothetical scenario. Maybe it's not a fair question, but hypothetically, if you could only spend, um, one more day with one of the mentors, one of the four mentors, and you had to choose one, who would it, who, who would it, which one would it be? And what question or conversation would you still want to ask? That maybe has not been asked.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  Leave it to you, Lewis, that is a great question. I've never been asked and probably will never be asked again. If I could be with one of those mentors now.

• 1:02:26Lewis Howes?

  Only one, you can only be with one?

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Only one. Well, I could answer that different ways. Let me just take the easy way out. I'd want to be with a sage, the last one, because he's the only one still alive.

• 1:02:37Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Though it'd be very interesting being with one of the others who's passed on. So, and also because it was more of a culmination. It was more of a finishing school, if you will. Now, if you'd asked me another question, who's your next teacher? I have no idea if I will have one, but I suspect my wife has been one of my teachers all along. Later in life, a lot of my training is just to keep up with her. She, I think she's an older soul. That's my own feeling about it. And I'm just playing catch up this life, doing all this hard work, the things that she had already realized in some ways. So I think we need to appreciate our spouse.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  If they're in our corner, and to me, more than anything, she's my best friend. And I think that's so important. We're not competing with each other. We're not, even though I do feel insecure around her, as I mentioned, sometimes. So, without idealizing her. I mean, she's got her issues too, like we all have. But it's been a real blessing in my life. Socrates, the ancient Greek, not my Socrates, he once, he actually said this, he was, he said, "By all means, marry. If you choose well, you'll be happy. And if you do not choose well, you'll become a philosopher."

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  And you realize he became a philosopher.

• 1:04:03Lewis Howes?

  You're a philosopher too, but it seems like you got a happy marriage.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Yes, also, I had both, best of both worlds. So you were asking?

• 1:04:10Lewis Howes?

  The greatest lesson your wife's taught you in the last forty-five plus years?

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  I believe the most challenging lesson for me, we all have our tendencies and values and priorities. And I think I came into life on what they call a certain ray. And my devotion was, my family was my extended spiritual family, my students, my readers. And so that was my priority. Fortunately, I did better than Mahatma Gandhi, who was a great figure, an iconic figure, but he completely ignored his children, who suffered and their lives reflected that. And my priority was always on my work. It felt important to me that I needed to spend my time, no matter what. Before that, it was on the search.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  And my first wife suffered the effects of that, because I really wasn't engaged in the relationship. I was just focused on my work. And so my work changed. It became teaching work in a larger world. So what my wife has taught me. One day, she said this, and it didn't make sense to me at the time, but I never forgot it. She said, "Dan, with all the work you do and all the books you write, it may be some of the most important thing you'll have ever done is help raise our daughters." And at the time, I said, "Well, yeah, that sounds good." But I didn't really get it, but now I do, now that they're grown.

• 1:05:33Speaker 01

  There are some amazing people, as all young people are, in their own way. I don't want to be a bragging dad. Nothing's more boring than hearing a bragging dad. But now it's grandchildren, and it's taking care of them. It's not always easy. It's like running a marathon, delightful but exhausting. So I'm having to, it humanized me in terms of focusing on my daily life, my relationships and family,

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  and setting aside my work at times when I need to do that. So I think that's... You know, I was introduced in Melbourne, Australia, when I gave a talk down there, as an expert in mindfulness. And the first thing I said when I got up on the stage was, "My wife might beg to differ. When I do the dishes, she always finds the spots I've missed. 'Dan, come back and redo this,' you know." These are the kind of humble things that I learned from her each day. By the way, while we're on the topic of mindfulness, to me, it's become a thing, this like solution. "Oh, I practice mindfulness." But actually mindfulness, I don't know how people can write whole books on it.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Basically, it just means paying attention to what's going on in the present moment without judgments.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Just being aware, as we would, and if we do it internally, we call it mindfulness meditation. Noticing the thoughts and feelings arising, letting them go. But even more important, because we're not, we don't live life in a sitting position, in a lotus position. More important is being mindful in everyday life. And that's something I'm still learning and my wife is still teaching me more about.

• 1:07:21Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's beautiful. It's interesting, I've just, um, uh, in my relationship with my girlfriend, um, it feels different in the way that we communicate with one another, it feel, than my previous relationship, let's say. There's a different quality to our conversations and spiritual connection, it feels. And, uh, we, we've gone very, you know, vulnerable, early on, when the first day we met, both of us are very vulnerable, it's kind of been that way the entire time.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 1:07:59Lewis Howes?

  And so every time she asks me what might seem like an uncomfortable conversation, um, I tell her, I, do you want me to tell you the truth of what I think and feel? And, you know, my vision and all these different things, or, or not? Because everyone I've shared in the past hasn't been able to handle the truth without some type of reaction, or not accepting me, or getting upset, or whatever it might be. And she said, yes, I can handle it. And then I'm, in my mind, I go, okay, here we go again. I'm going to say the truth, and then this is not going to work out. But the reason I'm queuing this up is because one of these conversations, um, was her asking me, what's my vision and what's my priorities in my life? And I said, do you want the truth?

• 1:08:44Lewis Howes?

  And she said, yes. I go, to be honest, um, I think most women will not want to hear what I'm about to say, if I was in a relationship with them. But my vision and my purpose, uh, my number one priority is to take care of my mental, physical and spiritual health first. Because if I'm not in a good state of mind, or a good body, or good physical health, then I'm going to have to put all my energy into getting there so I can help others. That's priority number one for me. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I feel like I'm out of my life. The second biggest priority is my mission, my purpose, my calling. Because if I'm, if I'm abandoning my calling from my creator, I'm going to be very upset, resentful, unhappy, missing, you know, whatever it might be. And so my mission is my main driver.

• 1:09:29Lewis Howes?

  Uh, beyond that. And then three will be you, my partner, if this continues to grow and work out. And I go, you're probably not going to like that because most women want to be the number one priority in a relationship. But that just doesn't work for me. And I've tried that in the past and it didn't work. And, and she looked at me, she goes, that's it? I love this. Uh, you know, I've always wanted to find a man with a purpose. And so I was like, okay, well, uh, but I'm hearing you say that your work was a, a massive priority for you. Do you, do you wish that you pulled back on that in your thirties, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties?

• 1:10:09Lewis Howes?

  And I guess we're more present in your marriage or in your, you know, with your kids? Or do you feel like what you did was exactly in alignment with what you wanted to do?

• 1:10:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, um, I, I really wouldn't, wouldn't change anything at this point in time. Looking back, I did what I needed to do, just as you've stated, Lewis. Um, taking care of my body and my health uh, is, is central to anybody's life. Because spiritual life doesn't begin up in the air, it begins on the ground where we are. And it's, it's the old cliche, you know, take care of your oxygen mask before you put, put it on somebody else. So that allows us to do all that. So I, I'm really aligned with what you've done. And, and no, um, I think one thing I did, if you want, you know, to model this vulnerability,

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  is I wish I'd been more communicative with my wife and my daughters to

• 1:11:06Lewis Howes?

  About what?

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Well, uh, my own vulnerabilities, um, when I screwed up to apologize, even when I wasn't sure I was really wrong, but just to acknowledge it. And if, when my daughters were young, being teenagers, they'd sometimes run in their room, slam the door, they were upset, and mom would just pound on the door and come on, let me in, let me, I would step back, I just stepped back at that point. It was too difficult for me at the, at the time. So maybe I would have stayed engaged and been more involved with their schooling, knowing their friends' names, that sort of thing. These are, are small things, but big things for them at the time.

• 1:11:50Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  It wasn't like I abandoned my family. I mean, I was a pretty good dad. You know, we still have good relationships and everything. But, um, there, we all make mistakes, you know, we refine things, we do them differently. But anyway, I, I want to make that clear because there are people out there maybe in a similar situation. I wouldn't change my priorities. I'm, I'm here to, to share what I can. And, but I will say this, Louis, when you get to be my age,

• 1:12:21Speaker 01

  your marriage, if that is your partner, is going to take on more and more priority. Because you've done the work, you've completed, you've accomplished a lot. And you realize you're going to be together this time and you've got the two of you. Many people are afraid of intimacy because they're afraid of loss. And my wife and I talked about that because one day, you know, she says, I'm going to die first. I said, no, I'm going to die first. I don't want to have to deal with, with that, with you dying first. So there, these are intimate things, but many people have conversations about this. It's difficult.

• 1:12:58Lewis Howes?

  What do you think the lesson, you know, I'm seeing that as a big, a fear that's, you know, you don't want to lose your wife, obviously, before you go. What do you think, um, is the lesson for most people? You know, I don't want to put this out there, but what is the lesson for most people? If they lost their partner? What is the lesson that they need to learn, can learn if they're willing to step into? You know, that unfortunate, obviously, and very challenging time?

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  Well, just love and trust. And many people are afraid to do that because the grieving will be proportionate to the love. But I just came across a quote. It's a hobby. It's the one big hobby I have for the last forty years. I collect quotations, pithy bits of wisdom, as you've noticed, I like to share them.

• 1:13:53Lewis Howes?

  I love them.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do too. And it's been just a hobby of mine. One that comes up for this situation, it may be when you lose somebody, the most appropriate response is not necessarily grieving, but gratitude for the time you had together. On the other hand, everyone grieves in their own way and that they will, there's no one way to do it. And it's a natural part of life. When people have been together a long time, we just have to face that with a warrior spirit.

• 1:14:27Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Man, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit is out now. It's the true story about really your life and your spiritual quest and a lot of great lessons, the four different mentors that you've worked with over the years, the lessons they've taught you, incredible examples and stories, actionable practices that people can take on to have a deeper peaceful heart and warrior spirit as well, to take on the challenges and adversities of life. People can get the book right now. Where can we go and support you personally? Where do you spend the most time? I love getting your newsletter, so I know people can go to peacefulwarrior.com at least and jump on your newsletter, but where do you spend the most time that people can connect with you?

• 1:15:11Speaker 01

  Well, I think my website, peacefulwarrior.com. There's a free life purpose calculator. People might enjoy just putting in their date of birth or even a relationship number there you can do. And various books, online courses I teach, a four-minute meditation, a four-minute workout, which I do every day as a core of my workout. So, yeah, peacefulwarrior.com. But also, I share my favorite quotes with people on Facebook and Twitter as well.

• 1:15:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:42Speaker 01

  Anybody who wants to follow me there can do that. And, yeah, so I'm going to continue to teach where I'm invited and I'm looking forward to going on as long as that may be, stay in good health, and... It's it's one of the one of the treasures of my life is is meeting people like you, Lewis, and being invited to share with you and have conversations.

• 1:16:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I appreciate it. You know, every time you come on, we every time you come on it, we get such a great response. People love the message and

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  So glad.

• 1:16:11Lewis Howes?

  You always got you always got these new quotes to share, which I love. So

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:16Lewis Howes?

  I'm curious. I want to ask you a couple of final questions. I've asked you these before, but I'm curious if the response is the same or if maybe they're different. Uh, this is called the three truths question. It's a hypothetical question. That I'll have to look up what you said before, but I'm curious what you said now. Imagine it's your it is your last day on earth. You get to live as long as you want to live. But eventually, uh, you gotta call it call it a day. And you continue to live out your dreams and have the relationship you want with your wife and see your kids flourish and all these different things. They all come true. Uh, but for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your work with you

• 1:16:58Lewis Howes?

  to the next place, or it goes somewhere, but we don't have access to your work anymore. Your message, your quotes, your books, your content, this video, it's it's gone for whatever reason. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world, three things you know to be true from your life lessons, or maybe the lessons that these mentors tell you. What would be those three truths that you would share behind?

• 1:17:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know what I said last time at all, but this time, right now, I would underscore with a yellow highlighter, some of the things I've shared already. First, it would be about trusting your process.

• 1:17:35Speaker 01

  Again, not comparing to other people, but trusting the process of your life unfolding. The second would be that faith is the courage to live as if everything that happens is for our highest good and learning. And the third would be to remember

• 1:17:54Speaker 01

  your innate worth as a human being and treat yourself kindly with compassion.

• 1:18:02Speaker 01

  As you would treat others.

• 1:18:04Lewis Howes?

  I love that. I think that third one is a big one. And, um, you know, if people can remember their innate worth, they can hopefully overcome the insecurities and self doubt that holds a lot of people back from the fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of judgment. And just be willing to pursue the calling and listen to the calling and pursue whatever that calling is for you, trusting the process of the failures, the lessons, the learning. And, um, have the courage to know that it's all coming in your highest favor. You know, it's the highest level of learning for you. So I love these three truths. Um, I want to acknowledge you, Dan. I've been, again, a big

• 1:18:45Lewis Howes?

  fan of yours for a long time and just inspired by your message, your mission, your, the way you constantly show up as a human being, um, the way you continually want to serve humanity. I think it's just such an inspiration. So I really acknowledge you for it. And I hope, I hope you get to keep doing in-person workshops sometime in the future. And I gotta come out sometime. Um, but I want people to make sure they subscribe and come to workshops and do your online courses and everything as well. Again, peacefulwarrior.com. And the book, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit. Make sure you guys pick up a copy of this. You will be inspired. Um, it'll, it'll just give you more tools to support you on your

• 1:19:27Lewis Howes?

  life's journey and figuring out what your message is, what your meaningful life is to you. So make sure you guys pick up a copy of the book, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit, uh, anywhere online, Amazon, but also a Dan's website, peacefulwarrior.com.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  And support your independent bookstores.

• 1:19:43Lewis Howes?

  Oh, there you go.

• 1:19:45Speaker 01

  Support independent bookstores, yeah.

• 1:19:47Lewis Howes?

  It's at Barnes and Noble and independent bookstores and all that stuff. Yeah. And the final question is, what is your definition of greatness?

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  There's an ancient quote that says, "He or she who would be the greatest among you is the servant of all."

• 1:20:00Lewis Howes?

  Dan Millman, thanks so much for being here. I appreciate it.

• 1:20:03Speaker 01

  You bet, Louis. You take care.

• 1:20:05Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links. And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well. I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most. And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.