The Taylor Swift Deepfake Problem, Tech All Time Highs + Layoffs, Quitting Amazon Prime

Ranjan Roy from Margins is back for our weekly discussion of the latest tech news. We cover 1) Why nude Taylor Swift deepfakes could be a problem for generative AI 2) Whether the technology slows due to this Taylor Swift episode 3) Google's latest video generator, Lumiere 4) Are Generative AI margins lower than software margins? 5) Why tech layoffs are happening at a time when tech stocks are hitting all-time highs 6) Are media layoffs a result of generative AI? 7) Are tech investors overexuberant? 8) Why canceling Amazon Prime is easier than you might imagine. --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. For weekly updates on the show, sign up for the pod newsletter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/6901970121829801984/ Questions? Feedback? Write to: [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Alex Kantrowitz?

  Deep fake nudes of Taylor Swift are circulating online, leading to calls from all sides to ban the practice. So what does it say about the future of generative AI? Let's also talk about the weirdest tech recovery, where stock market all-time highs are being met with mass layoffs, and why quitting Amazon Prime might not be a bad idea. All that and more, coming up right after this. This episode is brought to you by Genesis. What does it actually take to put a Gentic AI to work across an entire enterprise? I recently spoke with Genesis chairman and CEO Tony Bates about why orchestration is emerging as a competitive advantage in customer experience, and what companies need to get right in the AI era. Then, I sat down with Adam Mitchell,

• 0:43Alex Kantrowitz?

  head of enterprise business solutions at Voya Financial, to go inside a large-scale Agentic CX transformation, including the business decisions, trade-offs, and lessons along the way. You can watch both conversations now on my YouTube channel today. It's never been more challenging to get frontier compute. How do you know where to look, who to trust, or how much to pay? Akash is an open cloud that provides easy access, flexibility, and peace of mind. That's how companies like Razer were able to cut their inference cost by 15 times. Visit akash.network/alex for a free consultation. That's akash.network/alex for a free consultation.

• 1:26Alex Kantrowitz?

  Welcome to Big Technology Podcast Friday Edition, where we break down the news in our traditional, cool-headed and nuanced format. We're back here for another week of news, big week of news, consequential week of news. We're streaming live on LinkedIn once again, so you might take some questions from the audience. And for those listening on the audio feed, we appreciate you. Ranjan Roy joins us as always. Ranjan, welcome. We're so familiar, no introduction needed, Alex.

• 1:55Alex Kantrowitz?

  So before we get started, I just want to share something very quick. We got such a nice review on Apple Podcasts from someone whose username is K Parwani. K Parwani writes, "This podcast is my tech sanctuary in a world filled with digital noise. No tech babble, no smoke and mirrors, just straightforward, insightful discussions that cut through the BS." We ask for the reviews because people who are evaluating the podcast, they tend to use them as a proxy for how many people listened, listened to the show and whether their executives should be on. And we've had a couple of really close calls. We had some great guests last year, of course, Brian Chesky from Airbnb, among others. And we want to definitely deliver the top-tier executives to you this year. And the way that you can help us do that, not for our egos, but

• 2:39Alex Kantrowitz?

  for the guest recruitment, is to do a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Now that I have gotten that out of the way, just want to make that plea and say thank you to such a nice review. Let's get to the news of the week. And it's been a bit of a troubling story, Ron, John, where there's been AI porn of Taylor Swift circulating through the internet. Basically, people using image generators to make naked images of Taylor. And now it's become this huge story. Was it inevitable that we were going to get here with image generation?

• 3:14Speaker 01

  It was inevitable. And as I read a couple of places, it's not a big deal until it happens to Taylor Swift. And I think this is where the rubber meets the road. This is where generative AI, we've known it's going to have to be addressed at some point. So what better platform than Elon Musk's X slash Twitter? I'm still having trouble calling it X. And who better than Taylor Swift? And I think regulation around generative AI, at some point, there is going to be some kind of platform standards that are needed. There's going to be some kind of regulation that's needed. Most image generators have protections and censorship against this, but clearly lots of people are able to do this. But yeah, we've all been talking about this and we've

• 3:59Speaker 01

  known it was coming. So it's here.

• 4:02Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah. And you could totally, you could jailbreak these, these image generators. And even if there are protections, there are ways to always like, I guess, inject prompts and get around some of the protections, which is going to be a bigger and bigger issue. And you're right, the fact that it's Taylor Swift has now brought everybody's attention. And the New York Post, as it tends to do, just so artfully put it, it's no big deal until it happens to Taylor Swift. Now that you have your attention, Houston, we have an AI-generated porn problem, an oozing societal store many folks were seemingly happy to ignore until it ran afoul of America's sweet sweetheart. This week, deep fake images of the wholesome singer, digitally altered photos portraying her in a compromising sexual

• 4:44Alex Kantrowitz?

  position circulated on X to Swifties discuss. And now, this is important, Swifties are wondering how there are no regulations against someone creating fake porn using the likeness of real people and distributing it for the whole world to behold. So of course, I try to consume a good deal of media on all sides of an issue. And what I found interesting here was that the interests of the New York Post and folks on the other side of the aisle or the other side of the political spectrum are lining up, saying that this is a real problem and needs to be dealt with. Here's Casey Newton and Platformer saying, generative AI has many positive creative uses, and I still believe in its potential to do good.

• 5:29Alex Kantrowitz?

  But looking back over the past year, it's clear that any benefits we have seen today come at a high cost. And unless those in power take action, and soon, the number of victims who pay that cost is only going to increase. That is notable to me, that we're seeing this as an issue that is starting to drive consensus. And of course, we've seen consensus for regulating big tech across the aisle. And, you know, it never amounted to anything. But when this stuff starts happening, Taylor Swift, do you imagine that it's going to be a pretty important legislative issue fairly soon, if not already?

• 6:01Speaker 01

  I mean, it is ironic that. We've already seen examples of deep fakes around, I mean Biden and Trump for a long time around in other political races. So the future of American democracy and global democracy did not create this call to arms in the way that Taylor Swift has in the last week, but it's still good that it's happening. I think this is the year that the technology has become as democratized as possible and effective as possible. Just anyone who's used like mid journey version three versus where it is now in version six has seen how quickly the technology has just exploded and just how effective it is. But yeah, I

• 6:42Speaker 01

  think going into this election year, this is going to be such an issue that we are going to see certainly some very, very viral deep fakes and you know, that are circulated, that are confusing. Or like in this case, I don't think, I mean, I'm guessing vast, vast majority of people who see the Taylor Swift deep fakes are not thinking it's actually Taylor Swift. It's more a very clear coordinated harassment campaign. But overall, it's now and it's happening. But I get one question. You had said big tech regulation. Do you think this is an issue of platforms? Do you think this is an issue for the tools like

• 7:21Speaker 01

  mid journey, Dolly, stable diffusion, whoever else? Or who gets regulated or who gets controlled?

• 7:28Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, it's a great question because there will be a big movement that will say it's only a problem for the folks that distribute it and the platforms that allow the distribution, which is a great legal argument. But I think ultimately, when it comes down to who's going to take heat for it, it is going to be the tools that enable this to be possible. Like Twitter existed, you know, despite all of its issues before this happened, right? This is a new technology that's enabling it to take place. And so therefore, the new technology will be the thing that gets the spotlight. And yes, of course, it will play a role in politics. But I also think that You know, maybe like an image of Joe Biden, a fake image of Joe Biden or a fake image of Donald Trump.

• 8:11Alex Kantrowitz?

  I think a lot of people can, can like you mentioned, pick out the fact that that's fake. The same way that they picked out the fact that Taylor Swift, the Taylor Swift image was fake. But when it comes to creating these nudes, that's the real problem, fake or not. And to me, one of the most interesting things about this is, and the post is right. It has opened our eyes to the fact that this has been a problem for many others. There was a post that Casey Newton picked out that was talking about how on, on 4chan, they're finding women that are testifying in court and then deep faking them without their clothes on. And this is sort of like a way that like they, you know, sort of revel in the technology. And that's a huge problem.

• 8:53Alex Kantrowitz?

  And I think that like, my eyes are open now in particular about how widespread this already is and how, and where it's going to be. And maybe it's not going to rise to the point where it's going to throw an election, but certainly to the point where like everyday people are going to have to deal with the fact that nude images of them are circulating, deep faked or not, that's a problem.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  No, that's, that's a good point. I think that distinguishing between disinformation and harassment. And when this is clear, that this is pure harassment, not disinformation, basically. And the example you made, which is terrifying, is pure harassment or intimidation. Yeah, that's, that's actually, I mean, a really good distinction that I hadn't thought of as much. And probably up to this point, has not been the center of the discussion and needs to be more so. But yeah, this is, this is a tough problem. And it's, and it's also tough because again, I'm like the first to say that this technology is incredible and is going to have so many positive and interesting and amazing use cases.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  And, and I love talking about it and using it. So yeah, this is going to be an interesting year on this.

• 10:05Alex Kantrowitz?

  Ron, John, this is such a new technology also. And so it's, it's coming into an environment where there are broader awareness of the downsides of technology. And maybe in an instance like this can alter its trajectory. Can something like the Taylor Swift nudes actually set back progress in generative AI? Or is that something that is still so far fetched, given the direction of technology?

• 10:31Speaker 01

  That's, okay, one thing I would take issue, and I think any time in discussions around regulation of technology is the phrasing setback progress. Because I think, you know, is this progress? Taylor Swift nudes, deep fake nudes being circulated? Like, I think a lot of the times, the language around regulation, especially from the technology side of the industry, especially the ones benefiting or profiting, is that everything is progress and you'll be setting it back. I think it's, I guess, in a way, it's a good thing, because you can imagine, seven to 10 years ago, no one would have even really thought, like, this might even happen, and everyone would just look the other way and just let things go.

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Whereas I think we're in a environment now, as you said, where at least everyone is a lot more conscious of risk in technology, and at least willing to think through how to, how to work around, work with it and work to prevent it, but, I don't know.

• 11:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay, let me, let me attach this specific definition of progress, then. Progress in terms of, okay, we can like, talk about like, the broad definition of progress. I'm talking specifically about building better technology in this vein. Will it set that back? Progress in that way?

• 11:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, and better technology, meaning, like, if Midjourney version 8 has more safeguards implemented to prevent this.

• 11:57Alex Kantrowitz?

  I gotta ask, I gotta get the real answer here, though. Like, yes, of course, but I'm talking about more sophisticated, like, we have been on an innovation curve with this generative AI movement, where we've seen this stuff improve its capabilities. So, yeah, I'm not saying we shouldn't build for safety, I'm just trying to say, like, can this be a screeching halt moment, or are we still gonna see folks continuing to build? This technology.

• 12:23Speaker 01

  I don't think this will be a screeching halt moment. I think this is going to be, it's good that these disc, it's not good that this is happening, but it's good that it's brought it to the forefront and the discussion. Cause again, maybe there is some law around. I mean, there already are definitely laws around harassment. And if you generate it and distribute it, not the platform, the user that can be, you know, maybe there's actual legal recourse that can be taken and is like very constructed and created in a way that, you know, the legal system recognizes. So I think, I think it's, it's going to not bring it to a screeching halt and will be built, will be built in a better way.

• 13:05Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, I think all the companies thinking about bringing out the next generation of this stuff had, how we're watching this now and being like, are we, are we sure? Are we sure? Because this stuff is moving quickly. And we spoke a little bit last week about how video generation is going to be the next thing. And then like literally two days later, this happened this week, Google released a video generator called Lumiere, uh, which AI video generator. Uh, this is from Ars Technica. It does a great job of creating videos of cute animals in ridiculous scenarios such as using roller skates, driving a car, playing the piano.

• 13:43Alex Kantrowitz?

  And one of the things that I thought was so interesting about is how it could alter. You like, you, you like, it can alter existing videos. So you say, um, you know, make that person's white shirt black or make that person's, you know, gray hair, blue, and it will be able to do that just with AI, which is unbelievable. So we talked about how this video generation stuff is really going to, I mean, if you thought, if you think bad images of like, let's say Taylor Swift are causing a problem, just wait till the videos come.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  If I may rant about Google for just a moment, they, they did not actually release Lumiere. And we'll definitely get into this in a segment later. They released a paper and as they often do, you know, saying that this capability will be possible. I think it's really reflective of how Google has approached product development and generative AI overall, just a small rant that'll come back in this episode. But yeah, I, I agree. Video is going to be. A major area, but video is still far away. Video, if you've used Runway ML, if you've used the video generation capabilities that people can actually use at this point, there's still a ways to go.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  So I think photos are still going to be where the, where were the like kind of behavioral norms, legal norms, all these things are kind of set.

• 15:01Alex Kantrowitz?

  It would be interesting to get someone who's like working on training some of these AI-generated videos to come on the show. I'm just kind of curious, they must see all sorts of, in the, in the development process, they might see, must see all sorts of like, I don't know, fun house hell that these video generators are creating.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I've worked on, I've trained a stable diffusion model and like on custom images and stuff and yet it, it's wild and weird and especially this was about like a year ago. So it was, I mean, it's progressed very quickly since then, but you know, that's like the 12 fingers, eight hands, 10 arms, that kind of stuff was very common before, which is why I think we do have time, we do, there, there is a window here, but I also agree, it's, it's, I think the point you made, the people create, the, someone working at Midjourney is a product manager, someone working at OpenAI on Dolly, like this Taylor Swift situation will make them at least think, which is at least a start, it's at least a start versus,

• 16:04Speaker 01

  I feel there was probably like, you know, a three to four year window where people probably did not like almost willfully ignored potential use cases of what they're doing.

• 16:15Alex Kantrowitz?

  It is kind of sad that it takes something like this to like make them pay attention. Like you would imagine that the idea of people being AI-generated naked after appearing in court would be horrifying enough, but I guess it takes Taylor Swift.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Larger statement on society and culture.

• 16:34Alex Kantrowitz?

  And look, we're here spending the first 15 minutes of the show talking about it when it's Taylor Swift, so.

• 16:39Speaker 01

  I mean, where is she going to be sitting at the AFC Championship? That's all we know in the box.

• 16:45Alex Kantrowitz?

  That's for sure. You got the Chiefs or the Ravens?

• 16:48Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go Ravens. I also think if Taylor sat in the cold, could you imagine how powerful that would be?

• 16:56Alex Kantrowitz?

  It would be an amazing statement. Nothing will bother her.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Nothing would bother her. The cold of the people, Taylor, I mean, with bodyguards all around. I understand this is like a case in point that being too close, Jason Kelsey shirt off in the, among the people has a different, uh, different, you know, wherewithal, but, but yeah.

• 17:17Alex Kantrowitz?

  I mean, he's a 300 pound offensive lineman.

• 17:19Speaker 01

  What about you? Ravens or Chiefs?

• 17:21Alex Kantrowitz?

  I think my Super Bowl is gonna be Chiefs Lions. Let's see how it goes.

• 17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm, I'm Lions this year. I'm rooting strongly for the Lions, Detroit, you know? It's a, it's a feel-good story.

• 17:32Alex Kantrowitz?

  I mean, the coach is amazing. Bite the kneecap off guy, you know, potentially taking Detroit to the Super Bowl.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  We're gonna get up and on the way up, we're gonna bite a kneecap off, all right? And we're gonna stand up and then it's gonna take two more shots to knock us down. All right. And on the way up, we're gonna take your other kneecap.

• 17:48Alex Kantrowitz?

  Anyway, we should, before we get too deep into the sports stuff, uh, let's, let's talk quickly about the business side of generative AI, because there was a very interesting story about Anthropic. Like you and I are always trying to determine like how much of a business this is. Will margins come down, et cetera, et cetera? This is a story from the information. Anthropic's gross margin flags long-term AI profit questions. Okay. It's, it's a bit of a jumbly headline, but basically it means that they're not making as much money off of it as, uh, as other technology. And this is interesting. So it says, new data show that profit margins for startups may end up lower than for existing enterprise software firms. Let's talk about AI startups, right?

• 18:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  After paying the cost of customer support and service to power its AI, Anthropic's gross margin, so gross profit as a percentage of revenue, was between 50 and 55% in December. And this is according to two people with direct knowledge of the figures. That's far lower than the average gross margin of 77% for cloud software stocks. So we are looking at the fact that there are so much money involved in running these models that the margins are fairly low. And it's interesting because, or not fairly low, 55 is still pretty good, but not as high as traditional SaaS software. And it does make me wonder a little bit about like, what is the? What is the business future of this? I mean, think about all the billions, trillions

• 19:13Alex Kantrowitz?

  may be invested into AI. And if you can't make a lot of money off of it, does that eventually come back to roost?

• 19:20Speaker 01

  I thought this was, this was such a good story and a good point. Again, every listener, remember, average gross margin for cloud software stocks, 77%. Anthropic reported 50 to 55. And 50 to 55% gross margin, you can see that in a good retailer, someone actually making clothes. So you know, you're getting into a very, very different space than traditional software. And it really got me thinking around, how does generative AI scale? Because we know that generative AI is a more resource intensive process. There's definitely hope that over time, again, as this technology advances and improves, the

• 20:02Speaker 01

  cost per query will come down, the way things work will come down. And you know, this will all be, the right models will be used for the right use cases. Because again, do I need the full power of GPT-4 or for Anthropic, the latest model of Claude to do simple text queries or, you know, generate like 10 email subject lines? Probably not. So maybe that's one area where you can start to see some more cost efficiency. But, but overall, is this going to look different than traditional software? And I think it raises a really interesting question around that, that is this, is this a new hybrid where the cogs

• 20:43Speaker 01

  behind technology are no longer just kind of infinite scale software like we've seen in most other industries where it almost looks more like, you know, Tesla or Airbnb or someone else calling themselves a tech company, but actually having a lot of underlying costs. Maybe it looks more like that.

• 21:03Alex Kantrowitz?

  And what does that say about where this is all heading then?

• 21:05Speaker 01

  Oh, the valuations are, it says the valuations are insane. Actually, I think even more so because these are not even being valued like cloud companies. These are being valued like COVID era, whatever Peloton, work from home, crypto, everything. So, so I think-

• 21:25Alex Kantrowitz?

  You know, you're in trouble when you're in Peloton COVID territory.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you're in Peloton COVID territory, raise the flag, you know. But yeah, I think, I think it says very clearly that valuations are out of control in this space. Because again, it's, it's one thing to say this is a pure traditional software play that's going to dominate traditional software. But if you start seeing that the underlying economics are different than traditional software already, then those like 50x future sales or whatever they're trading at right now definitely look a bit, a bit rich.

• 22:03Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yep. And speaking of COVID era valuations and market madness, can I briefly tease Wednesday's guest?

• 22:12Speaker 01

  Please, please.

• 22:13Alex Kantrowitz?

  Okay, I'm gonna do it. Vlad Tenef, the CEO of Robinhood is coming on. So we're gonna have such a fun conversation. I can't wait. So folks, stay tuned for Vlad coming on Wednesday. Should be about 6 a.m. Eastern that I drop the episode.

• 22:26Speaker 01

  Just for listeners context, I do not know ahead of time these guests. And Alex amazingly weaves into every conversation. Somehow I tee him up perfectly to introduce the guest that's coming.

• 22:41Alex Kantrowitz?

  Thank you so much. So, all right. Speaking of the economy, very interesting moment right now. And I really, I think we're gonna just have to figure out what the heck is happening here because it's so confusing to me. We're seeing all time highs in the stock market and not just all time highs in the stock market, but we're seeing all time highs in tech, which is powering the stock market. And yet it looks like 2024 might be a bigger year for tech layoffs than 2023 was. I would understand if so many of these cuts, and let's just talk about them quickly. We saw that Microsoft is gonna cut 1,900 people from Activision. The Salesforce just announced a layoff.

• 23:24Alex Kantrowitz?

  We've talked about the ones at Google. We've talked about ones continuing at Amazon.

• 23:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  That we're already outpacing January 2023, which is hard to believe. And Quartz says that we have 24,000 layoffs just this week in the tech industry. Why in the world are the tech companies performing so well and cutting so deeply?

• 23:50Speaker 01

  So there was a really good article in The Atlantic from Andy Lowery around layoffs being contagious, or the idea of copycat layoffs that I thought was pretty interesting.

• 24:01Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, can you explain that? Can you dig into that a bit?

• 24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, so when a company lays off and their peers are not laying off, it gives the impression that your company is potentially in trouble or something's going wrong. When your competitors are laying off people and it becomes an industry trend, that is exactly the moment that not only if you've been thinking about laying off anyone, you do it, it almost looks bad if you're not laying off people. Because at that point, like right now in the market, it started with year of efficiency and everything else last year. Layoffs not only have become normalized, it's almost a show of strength by tech CEOs and most of these firms.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  So I think it's clear that every leader has the incentive to lay off right now. And in some ways is again incentivized to do it. There's, and I think we can definitely discuss, should they be doing it? Who should be taking responsibility for the decisions being made that were made in the past few years? But, but it's clear this is going to continue.

• 25:07Alex Kantrowitz?

  I mean, how do you do it? Like, okay, so you said, maybe we should, let's do it. Like, let's talk about it. How can you lay off so many people when the valuations are at an all time high?

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Because you hired too many people during the last couple of years.

• 25:20Alex Kantrowitz?

  But isn't the market telling you you didn't? If they're putting your stock at an all time high?

• 25:25Speaker 01

  Well, no, but the market is still just trying, the market just cares about your revenue, sales growth, EBITDA profit.

• 25:32Alex Kantrowitz?

  But this is what I'm saying. So if the stock market isn't punishing you for your costs.

• 25:37Speaker 01

  It could be better be. Well, actually, hold on. But the other major point, and this is one thing that I know, and I will be a bit controversial here, is I don't have the greatest sympathy for large tech firms and employees at many of them, because over the last number of years, I heard firsthand endless stories about people very, very generously compensated, barely doing anything at a lot of these firms, that they did become bloated. They did become, you know, just like kind of, you know, rest, invest, or just places to relax and hang out, do a little, do side projects, and get insane compensation packages relative to most people

• 26:21Speaker 01

  in the world, and even most people in tech. But I think where it gets interesting is, at what point does that hiring bloat negatively affect the actual work being done, the product development pipeline? And if you can imagine, those additional layers of bureaucracy and complexity probably slow things down. Like, Google, going back to what we had said earlier, Google has been a disaster in terms of product rollout, especially in the generative AI space. I mean, Bard is a mess. How that works within their existing products. Meanwhile, Microsoft has just been on fire. You know, is that because there are too many people? I mean, that's what Mark Zuckerberg and Meta

• 27:04Alex Kantrowitz?

  I was about to say, you're sounding Elon Musk-ish.

• 27:07Speaker 01

  I know, but this is something I will agree with Elon Musk to an extent. But I will agree more with Mark Zuckerberg in the sense of, you know, culturally, it changed the company. And then, again, remember, it was in their year of efficiency that they launched Threads, in like, how many? It was like, three months? There was a great piece I remember reading about the entire launch process. Like, they got to work, they cut things down and really focused and started executing very well. They revitalized their entire ad business, again, while downsizing and becoming more efficient. So I think there's something to be said where hiring bloat, even if the market is allowing for it, Still actually will have negative long-term implications on the company,

• 27:52Speaker 01

  both culturally, in terms of actual product efficiency development, all these things.

• 27:58Alex Kantrowitz?

  So let's accept your argument. Why didn't this happen in 2023? Why did they wait till 2024? Was it that they were so slow that they couldn't figure out who they wanted to cut for a year? This is like, we're gonna see more cuts this year than last.

• 28:13Speaker 01

  No, but well, one, we did see many cuts last year. I think that Quartz had the graphic that cuts this year are outpacing on average for January every month from last year, but still are just only slightly higher. So there was plenty of layoffs last year, and I do think it'll continue. But as you said, these companies have been running slow. You know, these companies, there is a lot of bureaucracy and work within this, and it's not like you're at this early-stage startup where hiring and firing are the fastest things that happen. You know, these things do happen slowly, but going back to the contagious copycat idea, now there's all the appetite in the world. Again,

• 28:58Speaker 01

  should Sundar and other leaders take more responsibility for the mismanagement or the over-hiring? I think that's a reasonable question, but is it the right thing to do for the company at this moment? I think for a lot of these companies, it is.

• 29:14Alex Kantrowitz?

  Let's talk briefly because it involves like one of the themes that we talk about here. Let's talk briefly about the media layoffs, right? 115 people cut at the LA Times, I think 8% out at Business Insider, Sports Illustrated effectively demolished. We know there've been layoffs at Conde Nast. I mean, I could keep talking forever about the media companies that have laid off. My old employer BuzzFeed News, no more newsroom, although that happened mid-last year. There, I think there's a misnomer here that people are saying that this is because of generative AI. I just don't think it's like people have gone to generative AI to get their news. It seems to me that it's just like broader business mismanagement. Can we agree on that one?

• 29:56Speaker 01

  I, well, one definite distinction for anyone listening is that media layoffs, I have a very different, at least empathy for versus kind of like big tech layoffs. Cause again, it's not like people's lives were super comfortable beforehand and you know, versus a lot of the big tech employees. I think within the media industry, it's tough, it's been tough for a long time and it remains tough. But I agree, I don't think it has anything to do with generative AI. Maybe like if anything, it'll be used as an excuse by management to push through layoffs. But I think this just still goes back to the class, the business model problem that's plagued media for the last 15 years.

• 30:40Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, I agree. I just think they, they spent too many bills came due and I mean, you're also like in the case of LA Times relying on a billionaire to keep funding you. And I, it's, you know, maybe that works for a while, but it's always a difficult position to be into rely on one person's whims to decide whether you can fund a newsroom or not.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  And then something like should Sports Illustrated exist is a, it's a tough one. Cause it's just, you know, so such an iconic brand that everyone has been around for so long and meant so much to America and you know, but, but does the athletic or whoever else have the same, you know, right to become that iconic of a sports brand? I think it's still capitalism, it's still open and the, you know, Sports Illustrated for a long time, especially after the spinoff from, I believe it was Time Warner. I mean, has not been in the greatest business situation or did not pivot online as well as it could have.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  So I think at that point, it just, at some point it was inevitable.

• 31:47Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly. And I was, I would say that, you know, yes, Fortune Illustrated did use generative AI, but that is to me, a trailing indicator of the fact that they had business problems. It's not like they've figured out generative AI. It's like a desperation move at the very end of the journey.

• 32:01Speaker 01

  Do you remember when BuzzFeed's stock popped? I think it was like 35% because they put out a press release for generative AI. I think, I agree, that's a good, right now, media companies, when generative AI comes out is like that they're very publicly using it or using it at scale. It's a trailing indicator that things are bad. I think. Some companies are probably very smartly working on how it's going to augment their processes and workflows, but, but the ones when they, the ones that are doing it too fast are definitely the ones that are in trouble.

• 32:36Alex Kantrowitz?

  We did get, um, though, an incredible resignation letter from Ross Levinson, who, uh, was the CEO of Arena Group, and then he went to the board. He was basically the person that was, I think he was held accountable for a lot of the Sports Illustrated scandal stuff. He, uh, he writes this, "The members of the board take their fiduciary duties and responsibilities seriously. The company's decisions regarding operating expenses, strategic transactions, or otherwise, follow thoughtful process and deliberation." Um, oh, wait, hold on. What does he say? Oh, this, sorry. He says, "The feckless actions and the board's inability to stand up to the demands of a minority shareholder and his two board representatives

• 33:21Alex Kantrowitz?

  has placed the company in severe distress, and watching what is transpiring in real time makes it impossible to continue to serve. Today's obliteration of Sports Illustrated's storied newsroom and the union busting tactics is the last straw. These actions and the inaction of this board are illegal, riddled with self-dealing, and will almost certainly lead to shareholder lawsuits. In my more than 30 years inside of public and private companies, I've never witnessed more negligence in my career."

• 33:48Speaker 01

  That is pretty spectacular, given Ross Levinson, it's not like he's been the most, you know, like, of-the-people media executive.

• 33:57Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Known. He's been known as a pretty kind of like, high-up, cutthroat business guy. So for him to write that, I think that says something about, uh, what's going on.

• 34:08Alex Kantrowitz?

  I mean, on the positive side, we are seeing that in, in two areas, right? Both the economy and the stock market. Things are looking up in a way that sort of have exceeded people's wildest dreams. Uh, first of all, this is from the Wall Street Journal, "What recession growth ended up accelerating in 2023? The US economy grew 3.1% over the last year, defying projections of a recession as a resilient labor market, uh, supported strong consumer spending." Um, people are saying that this is, that, that's soft landing, so that's great. And then we also, I mean, we, we saw all throughout this week, all-time highs in the S and P 500 and of a number of, uh, companies that we follow here.

• 34:50Alex Kantrowitz?

  So I guess you could look at that as a very good sign for where we're heading this year.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that probably the biggest conversation going into the election, I think, is going to be like, is the economy good or not? And this is a perfect example where media layoffs always have a much bigger media impact than other industries, just because people are very, you know, already have reach and can say, I was laid off and will, you know, find readers and it'll become more of a story and other writers or journalists will write about it because it hits so close to home. So I think the scale, and this is, you know, is it a recession? The vibes are bad or is the economy bad? I think it's going to probably be the most ongoing debate over the next year up to the election.

• 35:41Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah. Okay. And where do you stand on that?

• 35:46Speaker 01

  It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I think like, one thing I was actually thinking about was-

• 35:50Alex Kantrowitz?

  What's tough about it? It's actually good.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  Well, no, but here's the thing, like inflation and how it feels, I've really, and I've been having so many conversations with friends and other like family and stuff where everyone's like, you know, I still see inflation everywhere. And it's a reminder that a decreasing rate of increase of inflation does not feel good. That like inflation still is high relative to where it was before. Your grocery bill is still significantly higher. Things cost more. So like, it's one of those, because I studied economics undergrad and, you know, like learned all this stuff theoretically. But then this is for me, the, this has been the first genuinely

• 36:35Speaker 01

  inflationary period I've lived through that I can remember. And like, watching it, how it plays out, because it doesn't feel good when inflation goes from like 8% to 3% because it's still, that 8% inflation is still there, is just now increasing at a slower rate. So which is feels very theoretical and intellectual, but in real life, your milk still costs more and it's still costing a little more every time you go.

• 37:04Alex Kantrowitz?

  Let me ask you this, Ron, John, whose fault is this? Okay, because on one hand, corporate profits and the stock market is about are in about the best shape as they've ever been, right? So on one hand, you could say corporations took advantage of a moment of stimulus and need during COVID and raised prices and they all and are, you know, reaping the reward and causing some of this inflation, right? Now, beyond this, the supply chain stuff, I'm talking about strictly from a corporate profit standpoint. On the other side, you know, we were just, uh, my wife and I, we went to see the Gutenberg Show on Broadway this, this, uh, this week and we were in the standing room only section. By the way, a great, uh, life hack in New York.

• 37:47Alex Kantrowitz?

  If you can go, if you go standing room, you can see a show for 40 bucks as long as you can stand through, through the show and you have great sightlines. Uh, but someone we were speaking with was talking about how like they were charging like $25 for a drink in Vegas and something like $15 for a drink in the theater. And I'm like, well, they'll just keep charging it as long as people keep paying it. Like on one hand, it's the price gouging from the companies, but on the other hand, it's like, as long as we allow them to do this, they'll keep doing this. I mean, I guess it's like a broader market question, but who do you think the culprit is here?

• 38:21Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think it's everyone, starting with, once you add in some trillion dollars into the economy of new, you know, new money that it's going to be spent somewhere and then people will have it. So I think obviously it started with ZERP and, you know, stimulus, but then obviously corporations have taken advantage of that as well as they would and should. And so, yeah, I, I think it's a tough one because I don't think blame is the right answer. I think, you know, what are you gonna do?

• 38:53Alex Kantrowitz?

  It's always my solution.

• 38:56Speaker 01

  But that's the thing, it's everyone's fault. It's everyone's fault, but also, and I agree, if you don't want to, even going out to restaurants in New York City, it really is the point where, I mean, I've gotten to just, you go out less, because like you go to a meal and when you're spending, you know, like 50% more than you used to spend and the meal doesn't feel as good, or doesn't feel like a premium thing, then you go to less of them. And at some point, that will, you know, flow back into economic statistics, but right now, we're still at that, that we're still, you know, feeling the effects of people are willing to spend because there was just more money.

• 39:37Alex Kantrowitz?

  Interesting. So now, when we look at the stock market, I mean, you could understand why people are feeling positive, but a big question, especially on CNBC this week, like right before I came on to talk about Netflix earnings, there was a big discussion of whether the market is over exuberant. And you are looking at like a very frothy, it feels frothy, right? Like all time highs in this kind of uncertain moment where everything needs to be perfect to sustain them. Company like Netflix, which I was on to talk about, I mean, doing good on earnings, like adding 13 million subscribers, which is excellent, maybe like the second highest quarter of ads in its, in its history, but also trading at like a 35 times forward

• 40:19Alex Kantrowitz?

  price to earnings multiple. I mean, that's crazy, right? I mean, it's, it's a media company to go 35x. So do you think that the stock market is kind of getting ahead of its skis on this one?

• 40:32Speaker 01

  It's tough, but by the same token, there's so many stocks, I was seeing some chart around that, like what exuberance and, you know, so many of the poster children of the COVID years or even before are down 70%, 90% from their highs. So. It's overall, obviously, the tan mama Tesla, Apple, Netflix, Microsoft, Alphabet, and so on, and that or the Magnificent Seven, yeah, have driven, been a big driver of those gains, but also this, the increase was not just kind of like, these are all companies that are in strong positions, right? Like, it's not, it's not like they're complete fluff

• 41:15Speaker 01

  or froth. They're in strong positions, as you said, Netflix, which has been questioned many times, like, how well they're executing on the ad-supported tier of the business, has been pretty impressive. So that shows an entire new avenue of growth. They're going into gaming, they're, you know, they're innovating, they're, they're progressing. So in terms of future growth, it could, there's a story there. I, I will say, I actually feel this is less over-exuberance than certainly some of the past cycles and that there's a real story here. Hopefully, I didn't just jinx the market completely right there.

• 41:49Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah, now we're toast. So.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  I'm Jim Cramer right here. I just did it.

• 41:53Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly. So, listen, there's something else that, that has happened, and I was listening to the Compound and Friends, you know, which is a show that we like here. I've been on a couple of times. They were talking about how this moment, it's, you have, so, so here, I just saw this, that the S and P 500 sectors weight in the index, of the technology sectors weight in the index just crossed, they're above 30% for the first time since 2000. So technology sector above 30% in the S and P. The, we thought that higher interest rates, and maybe this was just me, but we thought that higher interest rates were going to hurt the tech sector because they would emphasize profits and not future growth, and that's

• 42:36Alex Kantrowitz?

  not really the bag of the tech sector. But what's actually happened is that the big tech companies have thrived in this moment, while some of the smaller companies, like I think the Russell 1000 is trading 20% under its all-time highs, which represents like some of the smaller cap companies. And what they were saying on the Compound is that. Those smaller companies have a harder time getting access to capital than the bigger companies. So it's an interesting moment where like, in a moment where rising interest rates, you would think they hurt big tech. Actually, they benefit big tech disproportionately than the small guys. So low interest rate benefits them, high interest rates benefits them. I mean, where could, you know, there's, it seems like they are impenetrable.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Well, no, I think the thing that happened was generative AI and the AI hype, they all were well positioned for and have capitalized on that. So that becomes part of the growth story. So then you combine that with cash, being cash machines and profitable and not needing the same access to capital or having, being so big that they have easier access to capital. Yeah, I agree. It's definitely, if we thought high interest rates would diversify the economy more, that definitely has not been the case. But again, what I see different now is with higher interest rates, the fraud, the Peloton during COVID, the stories are

• 44:00Speaker 01

  not happening. And that's not where the action is. The action is in, you know, highly concentrated, highly profitable trillion dollar gigantic companies that have a growth story. For what that, for what that means for the overall economy and vibrance and democracy, you know, there's debate there, but they have a story. I'll give them credit.

• 44:22Alex Kantrowitz?

  It's a big technology economy, huh?

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Yep. Yeah. Why you named it? Why you named the publication?

• 44:27Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly. So much to do a podcast about these things. Uh, rounding out this segment, I just, this is gonna kind of blow up our transition, but I forgot to mention this and it's actually this crazy thing that happened this week. So, um, you know, the Wall, the Washington Post, which is owned by Bezos, like speaking of all the layoffs, uh, there, there was a story in the Washington Post homepage that said something like billionaire funding isn't idea, isn't ideal, but journalism needs it right now. And then you clicked on the story and the story was editor's note and the body of the story was, um, this file was inadvertently published.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Wait, really?

• 45:07Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yes. It was crazy. I couldn't believe what I saw.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  I wonder if someone was laid off for that one.

• 45:15Alex Kantrowitz?

  Jesus.

• 45:17Alex Kantrowitz?

  All right. We're talking about years of efficiency. Why can't we have a year of efficiency on our own? When we come back from the break, we're going to talk briefly about the merits of subscribing to Amazon Prime and why, as I recently argued in Big Technology, the newsletter might be timed to unsubscribe. We'll be back right after this. This episode is brought to you by App Point. Everyone's racing to roll out AI right now. Co-pilots, chatbots, agents doing real work. But here's the part nobody loves talking about. All that AI runs on your data, and most teams have no single way to see it, secure it, and prove it's under control. That's exactly what App Point does. For 25 years, they've been the trusted layer beneath the world's most demanding data,

• 46:02Alex Kantrowitz?

  now extended across your entire AI estate. Your data, your cloud, and the agents acting on your behalf. It's how more than 28,000 organizations deploy AI with confidence, so innovation scales without scaling risk. App Point, the unifying trust layer for AI. Head to apppoint.com to see how enterprises deploy AI with confidence. Learn more at avpt.co/bigtechnologypodcast. That's avpt.co/bigtechnologypodcast. Violent threats against executives are growing at an alarming rate. When a company experiences backlash, executives are the first people blamed.

• 46:44Alex Kantrowitz?

  When their address and other personal details are sitting online, this backlash can lead right to their front door. The team at Ironwell knows this better than anyone. They've protected some of the most targeted executives and individuals on the planet for almost two decades. As a white glove enterprise security service, they protect your people with continuous personal data removal, proactive prevention tools, and human-led emergency support. So when someone goes looking for your executives, Ironwell ensures they hit a dead end. So here's what to do. Go to ironwell.com/bigtechnology, fill in the quick form, and request your free risk assessment. Their team will show you just how exposed your executives are and how to lock it down before a threat reaches their front door. That's ironwell.com/bigtechnology.

• 47:28Alex Kantrowitz?

  Learn how to stop online threats before they become real-world attacks. The link's in the show notes.

• 47:37Alex Kantrowitz?

  And we're back here on Big Technology Podcast Friday Edition, joined as always by Ron John Roy of Margins. So Ron John, we talked about this briefly on the show last week, but why don't we talk about it this week as well? Because now that I've written about it, I feel like really amped up and a believer in my argument. So my story this week in big technology is I canceled Amazon Prime and you probably can too. And I guess this is building off of a series of hot takes that I've dropped to start the year and I will return to more AI coverage after this. But I guess these kind of built up over the new year break and I had to pump them out. I mean, why have a newsletter if you're gonna keep your hot takes to your own, to yourself. But basically, my argument here is that I,

• 48:18Alex Kantrowitz?

  along with many other people, came to see Amazon Prime as indispensable during 2020 and 2021 amid the lockdowns. And the idea that, you know, in-person shopping was closed for good chunks of time and you could get things delivered that day or the next day or two days later with Prime, solved that problem and made it an essential service. But when the FTC started to talk about how it was so difficult to cancel Prime, I tried it and I actually did cancel Prime. And then it lapsed. And I said, okay, I'm just gonna wait and see what happens here. And I waited and I said, okay, actually, I don't need it because as long as my shopping cart is over $35, Amazon is gonna ship those things

• 49:01Alex Kantrowitz?

  for free to me anyway. And okay, I have to wait an extra few days. Who cares? And then, okay, I lose Amazon Prime, but I also have Macs and Netflix. Like a lot of people, I had multiple subscriptions. We all know, we don't need all those. And so now I'm happily off of Prime. And I argue in the piece that by and large, it seems like, I would, I would guess, and I don't, didn't write this down, but I would guess half of the 100 million people, of the 200 million people who are Prime subscribers don't really need it. What do you think?

• 49:29Speaker 01

  No, this is, I love this. And so I've had my own little experiment. I am too cowardly to actually cancel Prime out of fear that my wife would destroy me because I actually, what has happened in the last couple of months? So I, last year I was traveling a lot more for work and I got the MX Platinum to get some lounge access. And one of the benefits is Walmart Plus for free. It's like 15 bucks a month. It, I think it probably costs around the same as Prime. So the last, basically a couple of months ago, I started trying to test, can I only shop on Walmart Plus and not Amazon? And I admit, Amazon, I shop on a lot and have shopped on for

• 50:12Speaker 01

  years a lot. So like, you know, all the things that I buy on Amazon, if I go to Walmart, can I buy them and buy them at a, and get them in a reasonable timeframe, often one or two days? And it's been fine. It's been totally fine. It's equivalent in terms of assortment, in term, the equivalent in terms of delivery, you know? So I think Amazon already on the e-commerce side has competition. I think the video side of it is also interesting. I've just been watching Reacher recently and I binged it over, uh, have you watched it?

• 50:47Alex Kantrowitz?

  No, not yet.

• 50:48Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 50:48Alex Kantrowitz?

  It's on Amazon Prime?

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on. Oh, yeah. Sorry. Of course you have it then. Yeah, yeah. Not exactly the pinnacle of prestige TV, but an entertaining, uh, entertaining spy show nonetheless. But, but yeah, I really started to wonder, whereas if you asked me a year or two ago, like, the Amazon Prime bill yearly subscription you would pay for before anything else, it was such a part of just living that like, I think a lot of people are going to start asking that question. The moment that question gets asked, that's huge. Because again, Amazon Prime customers, I think I had read. It's like they on average spend $1,400 a year, whereas a tip non-prime customer spends

• 51:35Speaker 01

  around 300. So it's like almost a 5X multiple of how Prime locks you in. And we know it locks you in. Obviously, they're adding more and more to the bundle of the NFL, whatever else. But the moment that with these kinds of things that feel like, you know, at a time, if you were not on Facebook, do you even exist socially? And then people, myself included, deleted Facebook and then actually you still have friends and still know what's going on in the world. And suddenly it's not indispensable. So I think, so yeah, the moment that question even enters people's minds, it's big trouble for Amazon.

• 52:12Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly. And I still think most people will hang on to their Prime subscription, but if a certain large percentage left, especially they added 50 million people during COVID, like those people didn't need Prime, you would imagine beforehand, they signed on, and a lot of people have forgotten, like I did, that you could actually get stuff shipped for free. And that's been nice because it's really limited, these Amazon impulse purchases that I would make. So that's been fairly good. And also, like, it does, it does take a little bit longer, but not that much longer for stuff to arrive. So.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Well, without impulse purchases, how is the US economy going to grow, Alex?

• 52:48Alex Kantrowitz?

  So that's a big question.

• 52:49Speaker 01

  It's the US consumer that drives the economy. And if we are not impulse shopping, what's left?

• 52:55Alex Kantrowitz?

  This is why I think a 35 multiple for Netflix is wrong.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  All right. That's fair. That's fair.

• 53:02Alex Kantrowitz?

  But there are, there is lots of great television out there. We, you know, being limited to Max, very tough life, but watched The Entire Sopranos since October. And that show is incredible. Have you seen it before?

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. No, I watched it.

• 53:17Alex Kantrowitz?

  Brilliant.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  During, as it came out and remember waiting for the finale that whole week. I, but, but one good point on that is I, for the last. Three years, let's say, maybe it actually lasted three or four years. Any new subscription service that was launched for streaming entertainment? I probably subscribe to and all these companies were, you know, launching $3 a month, $6 a month, first six months free and very clearly trying to get you hooked into their ecosystem. But it's only recently that I really have been questioning, what can I cut? I still haven't cut anything and still have most of them, but I think that question is going to come up because of price increases.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  And then you're right, at a certain point, when it's, when I'm looking for what I want to watch, I have no idea where to start. I get lost versus if I had, you know, fewer subscriptions, then it narrows down your choice and actually helps you in that journey.

• 54:16Alex Kantrowitz?

  Oh yeah, we've done, we really plowing through the max. We've done all of Game of Thrones, which was incredible.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Okay, so you just didn't watch any of the biggest shows of the 2000s.

• 54:26Alex Kantrowitz?

  Well, listen, before I got married, I used to watch a lot of sports and now I'm like actually watching series. So all Sopranos and now we're, we're watching, we're about to queue up the wire, which I have watched before, but I can't wait to watch again. It's a classic.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  I could do a wire rewatch. I could think.

• 54:43Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah. Why don't we do it on the pod?

• 54:45Speaker 01

  Technology spinoff.

• 54:46Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly.

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Big technology spinoff.

• 54:48Alex Kantrowitz?

  By the way, these, these show podcasts are very popular. Just do one, you know, recap every, after every episode. People love that stuff.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  All right, maybe, maybe.

• 54:57Alex Kantrowitz?

  I'd be down, Ron, John.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  You've heard it here, wire rewatch, big technology spinoff.

• 55:04Alex Kantrowitz?

  Love it. By the way, just got a text. Flexport is gonna lay off 20% after it raised 260 million from Shopify this week. 20%. Nearly 20% of its workforce. And they just laid off a lot of people. So even beforehand, after the Dave Clark thing happened, so.

• 55:23Speaker 01

  I'm still amazed Shopify how public they were on that investment as well. That, you know, it's a company that's still trying to kind of find its footing. Again, after being a Peloton COVID poster child, but, but very strong business overall. But to kind of just very publicly make a big flashy investment like that was interesting. But

• 55:46Alex Kantrowitz?

  But they've always, this is the thing, they were always competing with Amazon on logistics. So that could be an alliance that happens. So we'll see. We have, we have Ryan Peterson scheduled, the Flexport CEO to come on next month. We were supposed to have him around New Year, but he was doing a lot of media and I said, let's wait. So it actually might be a great time for us to, to speak with him about it.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Maybe I'll cancel my Amazon Prime in solidarity for the alliance.

• 56:12Alex Kantrowitz?

  Exactly. Just wait, there's going to be like Shopify plus or something, but it's all these individual merchants.

• 56:18Speaker 01

  Oh, wait, Shopify plus.

• 56:21Alex Kantrowitz?

  Yeah.

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Okay. All right. I'm in streaming entertainment as well. Fast shipping from a curated assortment of suppliers. I think I'm in.

• 56:30Alex Kantrowitz?

  I think you just branded that perfectly. Yelled it.

• 56:34Alex Kantrowitz?

  All right, everybody. Well, the big technology podcast brought to you by the future Shopify plus has been proud to bring you this episode.

• 56:43Alex Kantrowitz?

  Seriously, call us, Toby. Well, anyway, this has been great. Well, we'll be back next week to break down the news. Ron, John, thanks so much for being here.

• 56:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, have a good weekend.

• 56:51Alex Kantrowitz?

  Have a great weekend, everybody, and we'll see you next time on Big Technology Podcast.

• 57:02Speaker 03

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman, Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid and risked 350,000 Virginians healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 57:31Speaker 04

  In this life, you can't win.

• 57:33Speaker 05

  When the world gets you down.

• 57:34Speaker 04

  No!

• 57:35Speaker 05

  Escape to Pluto TV.

• 57:37Speaker 04

  This is objectively fantastic.

• 57:38Speaker 05

  Relax into the movies and shows you already know and love, all for free.

• 57:42Speaker 04

  Schwing!

• 57:43Speaker 05

  Even our news is uplifting.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  You stay classy, San Diego.

• 57:46Speaker 05

  Watch School of Rock, Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy, The Ex Files, Wayne's World, and so much more.

• 57:52Speaker 04

  We're not worthy!

• 57:54Speaker 05

  The best things on TV really are free.

• 57:56Speaker 04

  You just have to know where to look.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never.