Recruiting, Ops, and Churn: Real Business Fixes in Real Time | Ep 884

In Q&A, Alex (@AlexHormozi) breaks down the real bottlenecks inside 8-10 companies, from e-comm hatmakers and mobility coaches to high-ticket consultants and medical practices. Whether you're stuck at $2M trying to get to $10M or trying to fix churn, CAC, or hiring, this episode is a masterclass in decision-making at scale. Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Wanna scale your business? Click here. Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition Mentioned in this episode: Get access to the free $100M Scaling Roadmap at www.acquisition.com/roadmap

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Alex Hormozi?

  If I said, "Hey, no one wants to come to Vegas who already has like a huge amount of, you know, marketing knowledge," because anyone who's really good at marketing can make more than that. Well, there's plenty of marketers who can make a million dollars a year in revenue and take home 200, you know, 250 with all the headache. It's like, well, I could pay you double that and you can just deal with high-level business owners all day. And for some people, it's like, that's a pretty good deal.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  Hey, Alex. My name is Mark. We help live poker players win more money who are already winning. We do about $2 million. We'll do $2 million this year and we'd like to be at $10 million. The problem is, we have two front-end offers and both are converting like crazy to the backend. But we have one that's 7.5K for 28 days and one that is 2.8K for 7 days. We are demand constrained on the high one, the 7.5K.

• 0:53Alex Hormozi?

  Do you upsell from the first to the second?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  We're not really converting because they overlap too much.

• 0:58Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so is it just a down sell?

• 1:00Speaker 01

  It's a down sell for players who aren't playing full-time or guys who are more weakened warriors as opposed to...

• 1:05Alex Hormozi?

  What percentage is each?

• 1:06Speaker 01

  We do 12 a month of the 7.5K and we do 16 to 32 a month of the 2.8K.

• 1:13Alex Hormozi?

  It's a big range on the other one. Okay, so what's revenue split there? Said 12 times 8, so call it 100 on the high-ticket side and then the other one is...

• 1:22Speaker 01

  50 to 70 on the...

• 1:24Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, so less on the other. Okay, keep going.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  So the question is, how do we differentiate these? Or do we just switch to a single offer that's more of an ascension? And make the one that's maybe 3 days or 5 days and less expensive and then we can upsell to the 28-day? Or do we just say, "Screw it, let's just do the 28-day and drop the thing on the front-end?"

• 1:45Alex Hormozi?

  You said your supply constrained on the 7-day thing?

• 1:48Speaker 01

  If we start doing a bunch of those, we need to hire more coaches.

• 1:51Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, and how are you not supply constrained on the other one? Is it less coaches for the more expensive thing?

• 1:56Speaker 01

  Gethin, my business partner in the front row, he does...

• 1:59Alex Hormozi?

  Is it fewer coaches for the... On the lower thing?

• 2:07Alex Hormozi?

  So won't you very quickly be constrained on the topic?

• 2:11Speaker 02

  We don't believe in a much before.

• 2:13Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 2:13Speaker 02

  They're in there.

• 2:15Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, three times a day, got it. But, okay, so the problem, though, is that you need another person to sell more people into the front end thing.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Well, because I'm running to my pages, like, so if I'm put in boot ten, yeah, I'll get down up there.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  The same.

• 2:35Alex Hormozi?

  I think you might have an opt issue. So right now, if I said, could you sell more people if you had a limited capacity? Like, could you, could you sell more if you had a limited capacity?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  We could sell more of the seven day thing because they go four times a month. So it requires less on our part.

• 2:49Alex Hormozi?

  Mm hmm. I, I feel like, I feel like reskinning the ops on that. But when I have two products that are really similar.

• 2:57Speaker 01

  Probably the higher guys.

• 2:58Alex Hormozi?

  And you sell them direct into that, right?

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, direct from warm inbound.

• 3:02Alex Hormozi?

  Whatever you're doing. Oh, from warm inbound.

• 3:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:05Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, got it. Heard. Okay. Well, if you cut off the low thing, you have no real scalable demand gen right now. It's just you make content and then that just, you get what you get and then you sell those people, right?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  And we're kind of capped on, on, well, the worm is growing, but it's slow. We wanted to start dipping our toes into paid.

• 3:20Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. I mean, that's going to be the thing that's going to unlock. As much as I want to say, hey, cut this one or that one. If you cut either of them right now, you'll just lose money because you don't have an ability to get customers kind of on demand. If I were to fix this, I would think, let's fix ops first, number one. Like, how can we reconfigure the delivery of the offer so that you can get three, five X the operational capacity for you? And then all of a sudden that'll unlock it so that then when we then go run paid ads, we can then actually bring enough people in. And then at that point, we could say, you know what? Now we have enough of the seventy five hundreds, which you might as well charge. Well, I'll just say you have enough of the seventy five hundreds that then you can make the call and say, you know what? We have this much capacity overall. If I just cut this, I can then triple this one and then you just do that.

• 4:03Speaker 01

  Do you like the pricing on those two? Or you're hinting at raising the?

• 4:07Alex Hormozi?

  Honestly, this is where I would be like, we need to do our research behind the scenes so we could, because we do price analysis all the time. And sometimes we get lucky. Like, we had a business that we acquired that we did a ton of pricing. Research and we basically said you are actually so underpriced that we will double the price. And it took me nine calls to the founder to get him to like sack up. Ladies, I apologize. Grab his gonads. Those are unisex. Anyways, grab those and then make the move. And not only did we double the price, conversion rate went up because it was so cheap, people didn't believe it. And so the thing is this, that sometimes we sell out of our own pocket, but you actually sell to gamblers.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  Correct. Yes.

• 4:44Alex Hormozi?

  So you might, you might actually find yourself in a situation where the more it is, the more they'll believe it. Which is called a veblen good, but we would do a pricing, kind of like deep dive on that before I would make a pricing rack for that specific avatar. But yeah, that's the TLD. I'd fix ops first, then I'd turn paid on, and then at that point we'll make the split call.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Cool. Thank you. Appreciate it.

• 5:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Hey Alex, my name is Jared and we sell body count contouring and body transformation to patients.

• 5:11Alex Hormozi?

  I heard, I like, that sounded so different from the onset. Sorry. Body what?

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Contouring.

• 5:16Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Body contouring.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  So it's our primary service is like melting fat.

• 5:20Alex Hormozi?

  We sell body counts. I was like, that's.

• 5:23Speaker 03

  This does, this does benefit body counts. If you're aiming for.

• 5:25Alex Hormozi?

  One leads to the other. It's a, it's a daisy chain. Got it. Yeah. Heard. So you get the contouring to increase your count.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  One point two in revenue.

• 5:34Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 5:35Speaker 03

  Um, with our, we're on track to two this year.

• 5:37Alex Hormozi?

  In person med spa?

• 5:38Speaker 03

  In person med spa. And what's stopping me, and my question is to start off from the top is we now sell a $6,000 package for a year. The med spas to help them scale using our pillars.

• 5:49Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So two businesses.

• 5:51Speaker 03

  Two businesses. And right now trying to figure out what to do.

• 5:56Alex Hormozi?

  Right. First one. And then this is this one. Keep going.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  So business one, we did start another location two years ago.

• 6:03Alex Hormozi?

  So three. Yeah. Heard. Okay.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  But the nice thing is we only do, we only did one service for like two and a half.

• 6:10Alex Hormozi?

  I do like, I do love the raising canes of just like, we make chicken tenders, toast, coleslaw and yeah.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  And then the cash is so good in the consulting that right now I'm like, do I set up the exit, move the consulting?

• 6:22Alex Hormozi?

  What do you want to, so do you want to sell the med spas?

• 6:25Speaker 03

  Not for nothing.

• 6:26Alex Hormozi?

  Well, no, I mean, yeah. But like, what do you want to have happen?

• 6:29Speaker 03

  I would like to be coaching. It lights me up.

• 6:31Alex Hormozi?

  So you like doing that better? You realize there will be no exit there.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  So within the coaching, this is why they've stayed together.

• 6:37Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:37Speaker 03

  Is we get all these clients and then we're able to pick the key ones for the spa group exit of like a 50 spa group, 100 spa group exit.

• 6:44Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  So I've got one that we.

• 6:46Alex Hormozi?

  You want to do a roll up of med spas?

• 6:48Speaker 03

  Of med.

• 6:48Alex Hormozi?

  I think that's smart.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  But they kind of go together. It feels like.

• 6:52Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, heard. How outsourced is this such a loaded question because everyone says they're totally outsourced? How many times have you gone to the med spa in the last six months?

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Uh, some week zero, some weeks once or twice.

• 7:02Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. I see where you're going. I think putting a roll up together, very easy to say, harder to do in practice. And then also the deal structure around that can be like, just a couple of ways of restructuring can make it A, more tax efficient for you. And also you capture more upside in a way that when you pitch it to them, makes it seem like they're getting a better deal. So there's, there's nuance to that, but beyond the scope, I do think that I want to get you out of the day to day of those because that's not the opportunity. At all. Because if you can do the roll up, basically nothing else matters. So I'd be willing to eat margin on the two, to put somebody who's intelligent in IQ first, square foot. So that I use my, uh, my cell phone talk. Have you guys heard my cell phone talk?

• 7:43Alex Hormozi?

  Here, here's the cell phone talk. So you get intelligent person and say, hey, intelligent person, I'm going to pay you, you know, a hundred grand a year and 5% or 10% of the profit of the business at best over four years. And if we sell, you'll get 10% of just the contribution of these in EBITDA to the overall. Cool. All right. But here's the trade. This doesn't ring. Let's role play it. Customer comes in, they're super upset because they had some weird reaction to contouring. What do you do? Any answer that is not call me is the right answer. Okay. You have a whole full stack and then the ceiling starts leaking in the middle of the day. What do you do? Anything that's not call me is the right answer. And so, and so I, I do this to make the point when you have that conversation because you're like, I'm giving you this ownership position.

• 8:26Alex Hormozi?

  I'm going to put your picture on the wall. We're going to call it your facility, not mine. So that you own these and then you can go and hunt. Cool. And if you have questions about the deal stuff, we're having help. Sweet. Thank you.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Hey, Alex. My name is Josh. We sell to athletes and fitness enthusiasts like yourself with mobility and injury prevention. So we help them overcome muscle tightness, joint stiffness, recurring injuries. We're at thirty-three million in revenue. We want to be at a hundred. And we've been scaling very fast. Now we're at a point where our CAC to LTV has like squashed down to two point one. So we don't have the breathing room.

• 8:55Alex Hormozi?

  Is this coaching or info? Sorry. Coaching, info or products?

• 8:58Speaker 04

  Info.

• 8:58Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 8:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, coaching. Low ticket to high ticket extension.

• 9:01Alex Hormozi?

  Okay, got it.

• 9:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. So our CAC to LTV is now two to one. We just don't have the cushion. So like continue scaling the sales team. To us, we need to double the sales team. We just need more cushion.

• 9:11Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So what I was referencing earlier about LTV to CAC at each of those kind of intervals of manual labor, that resonate with you a little bit?

• 9:18Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 9:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So you need to increase LTV. So are you all direct response? Is it all paid or do you have organic?

• 9:24Speaker 04

  We have a big organic following, but it's mainly like seventy percent of the clients are coming from paid.

• 9:29Alex Hormozi?

  Hmm.

• 9:30Speaker 04

  We run a lot of paid.

• 9:31Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So good. Good news and bad news. If right now you're at two to one, I would imagine the profit margins are compressing, right? So sales are high, but yeah, margins are lower.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:42Alex Hormozi?

  The issue is that, believe it or not, if we were to pull out the thirty percent that's coming from organic, the business would probably not be profitable.

• 9:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, it might be less than tw- I'd have to check exactly what that is.

• 9:52Alex Hormozi?

  Sure. What are your margins?

• 9:53Speaker 04

  Twenty percent.

• 9:54Alex Hormozi?

  Right. Twenty percent is coming from the free traffic and then the other eighty percent. Do you hear what I'm saying?

• 9:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So a part of it as well, like our close percentage as a company is twenty percent. The reason for that is like we've gone from four sales reps to forty sales reps in like three months. So a lot of our sales reps are still in ramp. It's like, it should be like thirty, thirty-five percent, which would give us a bit of breathing room, but it's still, yeah, like anything else we can do to liquidate more on the front end and.

• 10:18Alex Hormozi?

  I think this is actually pure ops. So it's, it's going to be the sales motion and dialing that in and probably adding some elements of education prior to the close, in addition to what you're currently doing, to make it easier for the sales guys to do their job with less ramp. And then getting, I mean, I'm sure you're proficient in doing sales because you're in fitness and obviously have a, you know, a hardcore sales. Well, I'm guessing if it's forty phone sales guys selling info, like it's pretty hardcore in terms of the, the, the selling perspective. Who runs the sales team?

• 10:44Speaker 04

  Uh. So we've got forty reps. There's then four pod leaders, managers, and then there's one, uh, director of sales.

• 10:50Alex Hormozi?

  Got it. Who developed the sales training?

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Myself, like it's kind of come from myself. It's evolved a little bit over time from our like top sales reps, but it's mainly me and the sales director.

• 11:00Alex Hormozi?

  To solve this business, it's going to be recruiting and training thing.

• 11:04Speaker 04

  Like in terms of sales reps, better reps. Yeah.

• 11:07Alex Hormozi?

  So like, if we look at the whole business, it's like, we have to solve that. Now, could we also probably look at the ad side? Like, are there things on the creative that might be able to give you a lift? Probably conversion rate throughout the funnel? Sure. Any incremental return is going to be positive. But I would bet right now that it's going to be, how do we get the best guys to forty, forty-five? And then have the meat, you know, the meat in be, you know, thirty, thirty-five.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, our best guys are close to forty.

• 11:30Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. But right now, were you saying the team average is?

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Team is twenty, yeah, because there's so many still around.

• 11:34Alex Hormozi?

  So part of it, yeah. So recruiting and training is going to be the business that you're in from a selling perspective. And so you have a sale, you have a sales business fundamentally. You have a sales business with a direct response media on the front end. And so there's so much that goes into sales training. I just rewrote the ACQ Sales Closer Handbook and all of our onboarding process. There's so much like nuance that goes into it and a lot of it is just, there's so much wasted effort that happens and untraining that occurs on the job when it's done the wrong way. That most sales or like I'd say ninety-five percent of sales organizations, their primary method for basically scaling the sales team is hire as many people as possible. Let the bad guys die out, which is scaling through selection rather than scaling through training.

• 12:14Alex Hormozi?

  And we scale through training. You can scale with higher margins because you don't have to pay the mercenaries. They're king's ransom because you can take anybody off the street and they can immediately sell. And so that's where your alpha is going to come in compared to people on like in your space. Who have to just take the mercenaries who'll jump from offer to offer to offer because you can pay them less. And you'll be able to ramp them higher and you'll be able to get more of them.

• 12:34Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 12:35Alex Hormozi?

  And so fundamentally, like that is the motion. That's going to be the competitive advantage of the business outside of the obvious. Like you need to still be able to run really good ads.

• 12:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. So the eighty twenty for us then is like for saying, uh, increase LTV is like better sales team.

• 12:48Alex Hormozi?

  Yes. You're not going to increase LTV. You're going to increase dollars per lead.

• 12:52Speaker 04

  Yep. Okay, got it. And what is a healthy CAC to LTV for our business model at this scale?

• 12:57Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, honestly, you want it to be bigger.

• 12:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, I definitely want to be bigger, but someone said yesterday 10 to 1, and I don't see how that we could do that.

• 13:05Alex Hormozi?

  I think that you could to 5 to 1 as a good target, and that would probably get like, getting the sales function where it should be would get you to 3 and 1/2, maybe 4-ish. And then I would say the other kind of 20, 25% lift that would happen there, it's going to happen front-end conversion rate optimization stuff, media, and then we'd have to look at what's the renewal rate on the backend, how many people renew long-term? Because like the two most profitable pieces of business for you are the customers that are coming in for free, which is basically the entirety of your margin right now, and then customers that renew that you don't have to pay CAC for. Right? Those are the things that are dropping to the bottom line. Everything in the middle is literally just to facilitate these two things.

• 13:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly.

• 13:39Alex Hormozi?

  Right? And so we just need to like, how do we double down on these two? Because these are the most profitable things. And then lift this so that we can unlock more to get to 100.

• 13:45Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm, yep.

• 13:46Alex Hormozi?

  But if you get to 4 or 5, then you can get to 100. So I mean, although this like this will be ops-heavy, this will be work. But you also get paid 70 extra million a year, so.

• 13:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay. All right, cool. Thank you, Mum.

• 13:57Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 13:57Speaker 05

  So my name's Chandler. I sell cowboy hats and custom hats.

• 14:01Alex Hormozi?

  Sweet.

• 14:01Speaker 05

  Uh, we do around 2 million in revenue right now.

• 14:03Alex Hormozi?

  Awesome.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  I'd like to be at 5.

• 14:05Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  What's stopping me is, so everything is mostly through social media.

• 14:09Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 14:09Speaker 05

  We've got about 780,000 organic followers.

• 14:12Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 14:12Speaker 05

  We are doing some paid ads, getting a 12 to 18 row ads on the ads. And the issue is, is I've got this big red shiny button on my desk, and at any moment I can just slam it and just double the content, like you say, I can double the paid ads, but I can't make the hats. And it takes,

• 14:29Alex Hormozi?

  Supply constraint.

• 14:30Speaker 05

  But it takes years to take somebody and make them into a master hat maker.

• 14:34Alex Hormozi?

  Hmm.

• 14:35Speaker 05

  And the issue is, is as much as we could say it's a recruiting problem.

• 14:39Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 14:39Speaker 05

  Uh, hat making is not like an inherent skill. So it's you, it's you could bring in a person that does artistry, you could bring in a person that does anything like that, and all of a sudden a bit out of the vision for it, they can't shape a hat. And so you need the hat making combined with the customer service in order to be able to talk to the clients.

• 14:55Alex Hormozi?

  So what's the price of the hat?

• 14:56Speaker 05

  Right now, anywhere from 800 to 1200.

• 14:59Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Got it. So there's a super high end, kind of like artisanal.

• 15:03Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 15:04Alex Hormozi?

  You know, hats are all custom, et cetera.

• 15:06Speaker 05

  And we do like end to end, like full virtuals. So every single person normally when they buy a hat goes into a hat store. And the issue is, is that hat stores are all locally based and it's a dying trade. And so what I did is I harnessed the power of the social media. And then we do all the video calls and everything virtually with people. So people feel like they're watching the video that they love on social media. But it's made just for them.

• 15:29Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. So it's totally recruiting issue.

• 15:32Speaker 05

  Totally. Yeah.

• 15:33Alex Hormozi?

  And I mean fundamentally, if you're like, I have unlimited demand for this stuff virtually, right? You can just slam the button and just get double the sales, but you can't deliver on it. It's a also kind of like the sales thing, different in terms of the delivery. But it's going to be recruiting and training issue. The thing that I think is underutilized right now is the fact that it's a dying trade. That to me is where the really exciting alpha is. Because if you tell me, okay, there's all these people who are dying on the vine, who can barely make ends meet. And then I'm over here printing money with the exact same skillset they have. I'll bet you, you could probably pay them better if they're making thousand dollar hats.

• 16:04Speaker 05

  But I'm in Kentucky.

• 16:06Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 16:06Speaker 05

  No one wants to be in Kentucky, besides us.

• 16:08Alex Hormozi?

  No one wants to be in Kentucky for what you pay them now.

• 16:11Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 16:11Alex Hormozi?

  So compensation is you can be overcompensated or you can be undercompensated. So if you are supply constrained and you are making money hand over fist, you are underpricing your talent.

• 16:23Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 16:23Alex Hormozi?

  So it's like, how much more would I need to pay somebody in order to get them to be one, willing to move to Kentucky? And two, be able to go through the training for it? If I can get them to do that, do I still have a good margin? If so, great. And it's like, okay, well, if I paid them 30% more, we'd be good to go. Okay. Well, what does 30% look like in terms of if we change nothing about price? What does 30% look like if we pass through the price to the customer? Does it change anything about our acquisition? If so, then jack the price, jack the talent, and then you're good to go. Real quick, guys, I have a special, special gift for you for being loyal listeners of the podcast. Leila and I spent probably an entire quarter putting together our scaling roadmap.

• 17:03Alex Hormozi?

  It's breaking scaling into 10 stages and across all eight functions of the business. So you've got marketing, you've got sales, you've got product, you've got customer success, you've got IT, you've got recruiting, HR, you've got finance. And we show the problems that emerge at every level of scale and how to graduate to the next level. It's all free and you can get it personalized to you. So it's about 30-ish pages for each of the stages. Once you answer the questions, it will tell you exactly where you're at and what you need to do to grow. It's about 14 hours of stuff, but it's narrowed down so that you only have to watch the part that's relevant to you, which will probably be about 90 minutes. And so if that's at all interesting, you can go to acquisition.com/roadmap. R O A D map, roadmap.

• 17:46Speaker 05

  How would you jack the talent? Like just, I mean, because I don't feel like recruiters can find hat makers. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

• 17:52Alex Hormozi?

  I think they can totally find hat makers.

• 17:53Speaker 05

  You think so?

• 17:53Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, I would just Google hat maker and then I would call the business owners. I'm just being like, this is how I would do it.

• 17:58Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 17:59Alex Hormozi?

  Like they're business owners. And so if they have the opportunity to, because the thing is they're probably not making anything.

• 18:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 18:04Alex Hormozi?

  And so many of them are artists. They don't have business sense. And so if they can make the money they want to make and do the thing they want to do, that's a dream life. It's a pretty good offer.

• 18:14Speaker 05

  But then they have to work for me and then the ego thing gets in the way.

• 18:16Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, but not for all of them. You need what? Three more, five more, 10 more?

• 18:20Speaker 05

  I would say like two to three more to get to five to seven.

• 18:24Alex Hormozi?

  I'll make a point. This is important. So you guys met my team today. Does it now make sense that they don't make a hundred thousand dollars a year? Yes, like the people that you talk to make between, you know, 200, well, two, no, probably higher. I said probably 300 ish on the low end, all the way to 750 plus, right? The people that you spoke with. And so if I said, hey, no one wants to come to Vegas who already has like a huge amount of, you know, marketing knowledge, because anyone who's really good at marketing can make more than, well, there's plenty of marketers who can make a million dollars a year in revenue and take home 200, you know, 250 with all the headache. It's like, well, I could pay you double that and you. You can just deal with high level business centers all day. And for some people, it's like, that's a pretty good deal.

• 19:05Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 19:05Alex Hormozi?

  This would be horrible if I was just trying to be like, how do I pay kind of as little as I can? And then be like surprised that no one wants to come here, but you have the margin and you have the pricing power.

• 19:16Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 19:16Alex Hormozi?

  So use it.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  So one last question.

• 19:18Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 05

  Can I hit the big red button and then that way?

• 19:21Alex Hormozi?

  No, supply first.

• 19:22Speaker 05

  And supply first, get the people first.

• 19:23Alex Hormozi?

  Well, you have margin, right?

• 19:25Speaker 05

  Like forty to forty five percent?

• 19:26Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, you got margin.

• 19:27Speaker 05

  Okay. So I'm just wondering, if I hit the big bread button, then I have more money and then I can afford the talent.

• 19:31Alex Hormozi?

  Well, how much capacity do you have right now? Are you fully like, are you fully tapped out?

• 19:36Speaker 05

  Right now, currently when someone buys a hat from us, the soonest they'll be getting their hat is like October, November.

• 19:40Alex Hormozi?

  So you would just be pushing out delivery when you do that?

• 19:42Speaker 05

  I could push out delivery technically.

• 19:44Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 05

  The industry does delivery at six months to a year for a custom hat. We're still technically two months under. I know, it's fucking crazy.

• 19:50Alex Hormozi?

  I hate using latency, but I do think that there's no difference between six and eight months.

• 19:54Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 19:54Alex Hormozi?

  It's just forever.

• 19:55Speaker 05

  Okay. Well, it is. And that's like at about the three to four month, like you get, you have to essentially just slowly grab everyone off the ledge.

• 20:03Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah. No, I think, I mean, if you want to slam your red button, just so you can just jam some cash in, that that doesn't really bug me. Pushing from six days can change absolutely nothing about the conversion process.

• 20:12Speaker 05

  Okay. Recruiting problem. Thanks.

• 20:14Alex Hormozi?

  Rock and roll.

• 20:15Speaker 06

  My name's Max.

• 20:16Alex Hormozi?

  Nice to meet you, Max.

• 20:17Speaker 06

  So I sell cannabis hemp dispensaries across the country.

• 20:21Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 20:21Speaker 06

  Twenty two million a year.

• 20:22Alex Hormozi?

  Grower?

• 20:23Speaker 06

  Goal is.

• 20:24Alex Hormozi?

  Are you a grower?

• 20:25Speaker 06

  No, distributor.

• 20:26Alex Hormozi?

  A distributor, got it.

• 20:27Speaker 06

  Yeah, so we buy it from California farms and distribute it out to.

• 20:29Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 20:30Speaker 06

  Goal is fifty million and what's holding me back right now is regulatory changes in the hemp industry.

• 20:36Alex Hormozi?

  Uh huh.

• 20:37Speaker 06

  So that fear of, you know, something changing, a few states are changing right now that are key markets and it's kind of holding us back from reinvesting and expanding the team.

• 20:48Alex Hormozi?

  So basically the uncertainty that the market is going to be there is what's holding you back from getting more locations on board to distribute to?

• 20:56Speaker 06

  Pretty much. I mean, from basically expanding the sales team and.

• 21:00Alex Hormozi?

  What's the alternative?

• 21:01Speaker 06

  I guess kind of sit stagnant and. Really? Mm hmm.

• 21:04Alex Hormozi?

  So what are you afraid of?

• 21:05Speaker 06

  I I guess what I was more wondering is like, should we change product categories? Cause there is other products like in the cannabis space that we could distribute to our current customer base.

• 21:15Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 21:15Speaker 06

  Rather than just flower, like that's been our full focus right now.

• 21:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I would probably think about it like this, which is regulatory is is like the number one concern in your space. Also, sometimes in healthcare as well. So that's kind of sometimes an issue because they're heavily regulated. That being said, most regulation, everyone's fear is that it's going to end tomorrow. But typically, one, you'll have heads up because bills are, you know, on the line. On top of that, they have to get voted for. Once they get voted for, there's going to be a time they're effective. By the time they're effective, they usually have a phase in because they typically don't want to disrupt business. And so you usually have way more time than you think you do. And so I kind of operate from the like, we will operate this way until we know. Cause otherwise you just get stuck in this uncertainty of just like, what do I do with my life? And you can stay there forever. Ray Dalio has been saying, I love Ray Dalio, to be clear.

• 22:02Alex Hormozi?

  But like Ray Dalio has been saying that like, the world's going to end for like 14 years. And so, and he's like, almost there, right? And he's like, almost right, but he's been almost right for like 14 years. And when it finally happens, I'll be like, I told you, right? And so the thing is, is that if you had like held gold this whole time, you would have missed out on one of the best, you know, growth periods in US history in terms of, you know, stock market appreciation. And so I say all this to say like, capitalize on the opportunity while it's there, when it's not there. Or like when you have a heads up that it's not there, then you can very aggressively start selling the other products into your distribution base. And I'm sure I would imagine that getting the other products, not that difficult. And training the guys to sell is probably also not going to be that difficult. So I would just go business as usual, still aggressively expand. And then if that happens, you'll, you'll make the pivot. Trying to guess the future is tough.

• 22:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 22:46Alex Hormozi?

  And so I would rather just deal with the, you know, the information we have now. And when that information changes, we'll change our behavior.

• 22:51Speaker 06

  Yeah. Thank you.

• 22:53Speaker 07

  My name is Peter. We sell sports memorabilia, autographed.

• 22:56Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 22:56Speaker 07

  Sports memorabilia by athletes in the UK.

• 22:59Alex Hormozi?

  Sweet.

• 22:59Speaker 07

  Uh, we currently do three million. I would like to be at 6.5 within a couple of years.

• 23:03Alex Hormozi?

  Very precise. Okay.

• 23:04Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'm English.

• 23:05Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 07

  I've been stuck at three million for the last couple of years, the swamp, as you say. I think I need an A player. Also, I'm not sure. I think I've been focused on the wrong things as well. So yeah, just want some advice on that and what else it could be.

• 23:21Alex Hormozi?

  What's limiting your ability to grow?

• 23:23Speaker 07

  Leads, I'd say leads and then converting leads.

• 23:27Alex Hormozi?

  Leads as in getting people to buy the products or getting the products?

• 23:30Speaker 07

  Getting people onto the site and then our conversion rate's one percent. So I think that's quite low for ecommerce.

• 23:35Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yes. Or the targeting is off from your traffic. Could be one or the other.

• 23:39Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 23:40Alex Hormozi?

  Cause I would say like if anything, some of you guys are probably like obsessing about your CRO, but the issue is actually the list. It's the traffic that's getting sent to the site. The easiest way to improve your conversion is get better people. I mean, being super real, like that's, it's one of the most underlooked way because the whole time you're banging your head against the wall. It's like, yeah, well, no shit. These people are in Africa. They're not buying this, right? To your issue though, do you know how to buy media really well? Or what's your core skill set?

• 24:01Speaker 07

  I don't know. I need to, I need to figure that out. Probably just managing the whole thing.

• 24:04Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Well, the core elements of the business are being able to source the products.

• 24:08Speaker 07

  Okay.

• 24:08Alex Hormozi?

  Are you good at that?

• 24:09Speaker 07

  Yeah. It's like seeing a piece of memorabilia being like, right, I could buy it for two hundred, sell it for two thousand. So I'd say buying.

• 24:15Alex Hormozi?

  So that's how you source, you just buy, sell. Okay. So you're a middleman. Got it. So you're finding, finding the stuff that you know is going to sell at a higher price point. You're good there. Okay. So we don't have to worry about that. I mean, it sounds like, I mean, there's not much else into the business. If you already have supply side down for ecommerce, it's just media buying for the most part. And then building the brand. But for you, you do get some kind of brand halo because of the nature of the memorabilia that you have, which is kind of unique to your business. But the fact that you didn't immediately say, yeah, I'm really good at ecommerce and really good at, you know, media buying, I'm going to guess that's what you're missing. And that's probably the person that you need. And the thing is, is you could go from three to six in like sixty days. If you have the right person, you go from three to ten, twelve. It's ecommerce. Like it scales very easily. That's why a lot of people like it.

• 24:55Alex Hormozi?

  The issue that then comes up is cash flow, which we can deal with later. But like, if, as long as you have, so you're at three-ish million. What are, what are margins?

• 25:03Speaker 07

  Four hundred thousand on three million.

• 25:05Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. So like twelve-ish percent, somewhere in there. This is why it's the swamp. So you either have to learn media buying yourself or bring in somebody who's a star or stud and you might have to give up. A few points of equity to get somebody who's really good without giving the entire margin away. Cause like you've got cash and you've got stock. You've got different levers that you can use to try and compensate somebody. It's just, it's like the really good media buyers make multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. And so most people who own e-commerce businesses are either very product brand focused or they're media hardcore media buyers. That's like, I would say those are kind of the two genres of e-commerce owners that I encounter on a regular basis. You kind of sit in the middle of like, kind of neither. And I don't say that as a slight, I'm just, just so you know where your deficiencies are.

• 25:50Alex Hormozi?

  The nice thing is that your eye for product, you have a really good sense of the market where you can do the arbitrage on the 200 to 2000, which is great. But I'm going to guess this is the skillset that you need right now, which is getting that going. Once you have the media person, then your skill that you'll have to learn is how do I brand this thing? So that I can long-term become kind of like a household name of sports memorabilia. But for now, let's get more sales, drive revenue up, and then brand would be the next thing.

• 26:13Speaker 08

  Thank you. My name's Nick. We sell sales coaching and lead gen to financial advisors. We're at 6.6 million. We'd like to be at 20 plus.

• 26:24Alex Hormozi?

  Appbound, paid ads, events, how do you sell?

• 26:26Speaker 08

  Paid ads.

• 26:27Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 26:27Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 26:28Alex Hormozi?

  Straight to VSL to phone team?

• 26:29Speaker 08

  Correct.

• 26:30Alex Hormozi?

  Cool.

• 26:30Speaker 08

  Yep.

• 26:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 26:31Speaker 08

  Biggest thing is churn, as with pretty much all agencies. We've basically transitioned from the lead gen company to sales coaching company. Cause we know that advisors can't close. No offense to any advisors in here. We're doing a lot of sales coaching now, so we have like the big head, long tail, where we can sell the lead gen on the backend.

• 26:48Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. The main question is, have you seen other agencies successfully pivot from lead gen to sales coaching? Or, you know, in like very non-sales or industries where founders or business owners are sales deficient? Have you seen companies successfully train their clients on sales?

• 27:04Speaker 08

  Yeah, sure.

• 27:05Alex Hormozi?

  So like a gym launch, how did you guys successfully do that across thousands of gyms? We had something called Boiler Room. We trained their trainers and front desk people every morning and drilled them, role-played, and separate them in the groups the same way with our own teams. So we just did it every morning for them. And it was just an add-on.

• 27:23Speaker 08

  Just group, group role-play, basically?

• 27:24Alex Hormozi?

  Mm-hmm. Just like you'd have a sales manager meeting where you'd role-play whatever particular part of the script they were all struggling with. We break sales training from the team side, not on the one-on-one side, into five parts. We've got intro, we've got disco, we've got offer, and then we've got objections and looping. And then fifth day is basically whatever is kind of the hot topic of what's the thing that we think is going to benefit the team the most? And so that's kind of how we rotate through. We have to keep each part of the script crisp, otherwise they'll fuck up something. And so that keeps the sword sharp. And that's what we did, you know, across the team. We still, we do that for our teams too. Basically, you need to provide more value or you need to lower the price. And so if you want to tackle churn, it has to be like, there are for sure businesses that work in the space that you're at. I think big headlong tail is a great model, like charge the upfront and then just make the continuity much, much smaller. So it's a no-brainer. Like they'll almost pay that just to be kind of in the network.

• 28:10Alex Hormozi?

  It's like, I try to answer the question so that it affects as many people as possible in this room. But the problem with information and kind of quote, quote, coaching or education type businesses is that people try to make continuity out of the front-end value that you're providing, and then the value drops once you have the skill. And so you have to separate out the consumables from the one-time things. The one-time things also have significantly more value than the consumables do. Now, sometimes they don't have the money to pay for the one-time thing because they don't have the skill the one-time thing would give them, right? That's kind of the issue. So in order to separate it, it's like you just have to think, what are the things that they get on an ongoing basis? And if we only sold that, what would the price point be? Likely significantly lower.

• 28:50Alex Hormozi?

  And if we got that skill, it would be significantly more. But once they have the skill, assume they have the skill on the ongoing basis. What would they still pay for? Now, you have the lead gen thing.

• 29:01Speaker 08

  How to sell using our process, they stay.

• 29:03Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 29:04Speaker 08

  The biggest thing is just making sure they actually consume the coaching.

• 29:07Alex Hormozi?

  So it's, so it's like, it's activation as well. So like getting them to come in and actually engage.

• 29:12Speaker 08

  Yeah.

• 29:12Alex Hormozi?

  Because most advisors.

• 29:13Speaker 08

  Is it all remote?

• 29:14Alex Hormozi?

  It's all remote. And they don't, they also don't like sales, like the word sales, like they like cringe inside when they hear it. So we've literally like banned the word sales. Like we, we just say consulting. We don't call them sales calls. We call them consults. So like, you know, like that.

• 29:28Speaker 08

  So it sounds like you just have to get better at training them?

• 29:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah. So, so what did your team structure look like as well? So I was, I was curious, like, is it possible at scale to do that? And then what sort of team did you have on the sales training or coaching side? It is possible, but the answer to my question isn't the answer. The answer to your question isn't the answer to your question. Me answering with what our team structure looked like does will not help you. It's a different business. And so for us, the fundamental arbitrage that existed by and large was kind of two main things. So one was the network and the community. That was a big component of it. You know, being a gym owner is very lonely. It sucks. The other component of it was lead generation, but not in the way that most agencies kind of do it. We were not an agency. So the one skill that I taught gym owners how to do was how to run ads in a local market. And then the thing they would need on a regular basis was the creative.

• 30:13Alex Hormozi?

  And so I licensed the creative every single month because they needed that every month, but they already had the skill. So I didn't have to have a hundred fucking account reps to deal with it because they knew how to run their own ads. And running ads in a local market is very easy. Drop a pin, female, go. You know what I mean? Like, as long as the creative is good. And they were running it to our pages that we already tested. And so all we had to do is feed the black box with the creative. And then after that, they just run our process. Got it. Your issue, though, is that if someone gets activated, they stick for sure. For sure. Well, then all of the, all of the effort we have is how do we get them activated? Like better, faster, which is going to be a function of two things. One is going to be, are there some avatars that are better than others? Right? So we only sell those avatars. And we split that into three buckets. You've got demographics, what do they look like?

• 30:58Alex Hormozi?

  Right? You've got the quantifiables, which is like the size business that they have, whatever. Those two at least get you on a head start in terms of segmenting the traffic. So you can be like, this is who the avatar is. These ones have a significantly higher likelihood of converting. And what will happen when you do that is your cackle go up, but then your stick problem will get fixed. Okay. So like, for example, if I sold everybody who identified as a fitness person, then GymLaunch would never have been able to exist. Because I would have had too many shitty customers who are personal trainers who've got 10 clients, whatever, and they can never pay and it doesn't matter what I do. And so for me to deploy the resources required to actually get them up to snuff, I have to have somebody who at their onset can pay more. So that I can actually help them. Okay. Because below a certain extent, it just needs to be DIY. Which is a different business, not the business I wanted to be in.

• 31:43Alex Hormozi?

  So there's probably some advisors that are better. That you need to basically scan out and say, all these people we're not going to service because they have a low likelihood of actually working. And maybe you need to adjust price to only accommodate those people and that newer avatar that's better. So this is predominantly an avatar issue. And then obviously the ops on the backend in terms of activation is what do? Oh yeah, that's the third bucket, the behaviors. So what do the people who have the right demographics and the right quantifiables? What behaviors did they do that caused them to activate and stick? And what did the other people who look like them not do? And then that becomes the activation process we reverse engineer. Makes sense. Quick last question. How did you optimize for for time to value? How did you launch? And how can we potentially do something similar? Because for us, deal cycles are. Yeah, we email their list, they make a sale in the first seven days. Okay, so just reactivation. Okay, sweet.

• 32:28Alex Hormozi?

  Appreciate you.

• 32:29Speaker 09

  My name is Roddy. I'm an orthopedic surgeon with emphasis in orthobiologics and regenerative medicine. We do about 2.1 million. And that was with a shift in the last year, more of an insurance based practice to more of cash based services.

• 32:43Alex Hormozi?

  Congrats.

• 32:44Speaker 09

  So obviously we want to continue to grow that. We think that we could get to 10 million. Ed encouraged me to mention that a lot of that cash based stuff has come on credibility tailwind of some fortunate exposure on the Joe Rogan podcast.

• 32:59Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, cool.

• 32:59Speaker 09

  But the question is, we would like to, we think our problem is top of the funnel because our close rate is very, very high, like 80%.

• 33:06Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 33:07Speaker 09

  We need a way to bring more people to us that know and understand what we do and are looking for this. The challenge is the marketing around it. And you mentioned earlier with healthcare is that we're not really allowed to say some of the things in that way. Because of the limits with the FDA and FTC. So how would you leverage some of these things and attack this from a marketing standpoint?

• 33:30Alex Hormozi?

  Well, you have the Rogan podcast. Do you get everyone to listen to that?

• 33:34Speaker 09

  No.

• 33:34Alex Hormozi?

  That might be

• 33:35Speaker 09

  Who's everyone?

• 33:36Alex Hormozi?

  Well, the people that you want to buy your stuff. If I had 60 seconds to answer the question of like, how do I fix this business without any other context? I'd be like, okay, who are the highest likelihood candidates for the service that you sell? Let's put them into an audience. And then the thing that we're going to give them or that we're going to encourage them to listen to is a truncated version of the Rogan podcast. And they're going to want to listen to that anyways, because it's probably a topic they would be interested in because it's Rogan. Plus, if they are in the demographic, then they would want to listen to it. If they listen to that podcast and then you just have follow up to those people. It's like that podcast does the selling for you. So basically that would function as your video sales letter in the process of selling those customers.

• 34:15Speaker 09

  Any problem with that you could see from leveraging that from, for example, somebody building their business off of something that developed as a result of their interaction with you?

• 34:26Alex Hormozi?

  So what you can do is you can, if you want to be clean about it, you just run it to the episode. And then you just have to measure your return. I don't know if you did CTAs or anything like that, but if you don't truncate it at all and you just say like, here's the episode, let's drive traffic to it. And we just know the difference is that every single person's going to listen to Rogan. A very small slice of that are people who might be interested in your stuff. If you only had people interested in that stuff who listen to the podcast, what percentage of those people then take the next action? So that would be like, again, if I have 60 seconds, both hands tied behind my back with zero ability to do anything else, it'd be like, let's just get as many people who are in the target audience to watch that thing or listen to that podcast. And then see what happens. That would be like the first move. The second move would be like, okay, we'd have to do a deeper dive on, okay, what are the patients? Where are the kind of like centers of influence for them? Is it like, is this better as an affiliate play?

• 35:11Alex Hormozi?

  Is this better as a content play? Is this better as a paid ads play? And then saying, okay, based on your skill set, we think this is the lowest risk opportunity that we can pursue to get new customers in the door. Because right now you could take more customers, right? Or patients, sorry. You could take more patients. Okay. And everyone that comes to you is nationally fly in or is it local?

• 35:29Speaker 09

  Both.

• 35:30Alex Hormozi?

  What's the majority?

• 35:31Speaker 09

  More local.

• 35:32Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, really? Okay. Well, then.

• 35:34Speaker 09

  Well, so let me say this.

• 35:35Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 35:35Speaker 09

  More local in general, but more from out of town that are

• 35:40Alex Hormozi?

  Rogan.

• 35:40Speaker 09

  Specifically coming because of that.

• 35:42Alex Hormozi?

  I would take that same idea, but I would just drop a 50 mile radius. Pin on the map and I would just focus on local because if you know the guy that Rogan talked about who did this thing is 50 miles from you, you're like, the likelihood that you wanna go do this thing is pretty high. And so that demographic, that's the lead magnet. And then the thing that's missing in your processes, you have no one who does sales, right?

• 36:02Speaker 10

  That we do now.

• 36:03Alex Hormozi?

  You do now. It's very common for healthcare to just have no sales whatsoever. And so you just need one person who's going to start working those leads so they can start booking appointments kind of proactively. Hey, did you get a chance to watch the podcast? What was the most such part for you? Oh, are you struggling with something like this? Well, it sounds like it might be a good fit. Can I tell you about it? Great. Let's uh, let's get you set up. The doc will get you all taken care of. That's my 60 seconds, hand tied behind my back way that I would solve it. But the thing is, you have this asset. I would like to leverage it in a clean way that doesn't, you know, uh, fuck up that relationship. And I think that would probably be okay if you push traffic to his asset. If we did a YouTube video and you ran ads to the YouTube video, I mean, you're promoting my show. So that's clean.

• 36:45Speaker 10

  Okay.

• 36:45Alex Hormozi?

  Does that make sense?

• 36:46Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 36:47Alex Hormozi?

  Thank you.

• 36:47Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 36:47Alex Hormozi?

  You're welcome.

• 36:48Speaker 10

  Michael Ivey, I, uh, managing partner at Eclipse Consulting. We're a boutique services firm based out of New York City and we provide data management, risk and regulatory change advisory services to highly regulated and data intensive businesses. And historically, most of our clients are financial services, particularly banking.

• 37:07Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 37:07Speaker 10

  We were heavily concentrated in banking, Credit Suisse, Silicon Valley Bank were some of our biggest clients. So, uh, when that sector went down, we had to kind of reinvent ourselves a little bit and focus more on asset management, insurance, private equity, relatively easy.

• 37:21Alex Hormozi?

  That's a wild change. That's a big change.

• 37:23Speaker 10

  The cool thing is data management, risk and regulatory stuff. It's, the practice is kind of industry agnostic. You need some of the specialty in the industry.

• 37:31Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 37:32Speaker 10

  But, uh, it was a pretty seamless pivot for us, to be honest.

• 37:34Alex Hormozi?

  That's amazing.

• 37:35Speaker 10

  We were just so, uh, at one point, supply constrained on the banking side and then demand disappeared. And so we chased, we went to where supply was. So anyway, so we'll, we'll do, uh, we, we were well over 30 million after three years.

• 37:48Alex Hormozi?

  Awesome.

• 37:48Speaker 10

  With the banking crisis, we fell back down. We'll do around 15 million this year. Uh, want to get to a hundred by 2029. I've almost. Invested too much time into working on the business.

• 37:59Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 37:59Speaker 10

  And I I found I had a lot of fun doing it. So historically, a lot of ourselves were founder led. And so we've really pivoted. I've been working aggressively. I know I can swoop in. I know I can use my network and relationships to drive leads and referrals. I don't concern myself as especially good sales guy.

• 38:15Alex Hormozi?

  Well, you're closing fifteen to thirty in business. You're not that bad.

• 38:17Speaker 10

  Yeah, I've done multiple nine figures of professional services, sales, but it comes from the passion, the consultative nature. So I think of sales as our last frontier, the operations, the people, the finance side, pristine, like in your, in your nine stages where you're solid eight, eightish in all of those areas, but sales and marketing, we're lagging big time. And so been trying to figure out in the sales, if you look at our growth engine from lead onward, team's exceptional. There's some levers we can continue to tweak and enhance on close rates and on a commercial acumen to just enhance profitability. But we need more leads coming into the funnel. So, so that's our biggest constraint. We've, we've been experimenting with a lot of different things. The pandemic definitely kind of changed up the game a little bit.

• 39:01Alex Hormozi?

  How do you source leads right now?

• 39:02Speaker 10

  So most of it's founder led. Most of it's just me texting someone on a whim.

• 39:05Alex Hormozi?

  Founder led, meaning you.

• 39:06Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 39:07Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 39:08Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 39:09Alex Hormozi?

  It sounded so fancy. I mean, like, I text people, like,

• 39:12Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 39:13Alex Hormozi?

  Got it.

• 39:14Speaker 10

  Yeah.

• 39:15Alex Hormozi?

  So you texting people that you know, just because you've been doing this for a while, is how you more or less source business. So it's warm outbound.

• 39:20Speaker 10

  Exactly.

• 39:21Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. It's probably in, in your industry, giving you a combination of three things. So you need to dominate trade shows and conferences because you're going to automatically be able to, you're going to be elevated. That's where all the fish are in one barrel. This is especially true for kind of enterprise level sales like yours. And so enterprise is typically a combination of affiliate partners in some ways. So kind of like the centers of influence who can kind of do joint venture type deals with where it's like, hey, you do this element that we don't do. We do this element that you don't do. Like, how can we share in deal flow and then basically co, co-participate in a lot of deal work, which I'm sure will happen. The conference stuff is like, we have a great conference playbook that we run for all enterprise sales stuff, tapping and walking through it. And then, I mean, you're doing warm outbound, which is always the first thing that you do, and you just happen to be able to do it to thirty point here, which is great.

• 40:06Alex Hormozi?

  When you do that for gym memberships, you get to about $5 a year. Goes to show, if you add more zeros, the thing you sell, you can go a lot further sometimes. But with cold outbound basically becomes a back to those two is the front end. So it's basically you use cold outbound to get your conferences and your affiliates. That's the outbound method that you're going to use as the primary action. The secondary action is securing the deals for both of those. So that you can have your playbook that you run on a regular basis that you're doing to get those people in the funnel. And then to the same degree on the affiliate side, doing the deals that you need so that you can share in lead flow. And so is Sean here? Is he here? No, well, he was in here earlier. So Sean was the CEO or president, excuse me, of Real Brokerage, it was a publicly traded real estate brokerage. And so Sean came in and six X the company from 200 million to 1.2 billion.

• 40:51Alex Hormozi?

  And he did one thing, he did 220 speaking events a year. And then he just went from stage and then stayed for two days and would just sell every person who'd come up to him. And that's how they took it from 200 million to 1.2 billion. And so sometimes it's like, we had dinner and I think I've told this story before, but like, people are like, so what's the really scalable? It's like, that's what he did. He did 220 fucking events in a year. And that's how he added a billion to the business.

• 41:16Speaker 10

  Oh, wow. Yeah, we're doing, you know, 10 or 20. So we could probably do.

• 41:20Alex Hormozi?

  You probably do more volume on this. There's probably way more you can squeeze per, because there's a bunch of different conversion points you can do if you set up the event properly. And then on the affiliate side, I see these as really good long-term things that you'll also still be able to source from the events that you attend. So it's kind of a really nice cycle in terms of acquisition. So it's like, we do the outbound so that we can get the events. The events then feed us in these multiple ways. One of the things that we triage at the event is potential partners so that we can actually between events, have this as our ongoing kind of lead gen component. And then obviously we do direct deals from the event itself.

• 41:50Speaker 10

  Yeah, that's interesting. So we have a robust alliance partner framework and so we have a lot of alliance partners. Our challenge has been.

• 41:56Alex Hormozi?

  Activation, getting them to continue to refer business.

• 41:58Speaker 10

  Exactly. Cause part of it is we almost have too many alliance partners.

• 42:01Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, but they're not activated. That's the problem. Right. So we think about affiliates as a second customer base. So Allen had three levels as the software company that we had. We had SMBs and then above SMBs, we had agencies. And above agencies, we had agency influencers. People who like helped agencies do stuff. And so we actually had to have three tiers of service. And when I started, I thought I was going to be serving SMBs. And then I realized agencies, really the people that needed to use our software to service SMBs. And so that became a huge level of leverage for us to scale the business really quickly. But then we were like, oh, wait, we also have these super affiliates that have 500, 1,000 agencies that are in their network. They could basically push us 100, 200, 500 agencies with one email.

• 42:42Alex Hormozi?

  And so we had to basically create the, how do we make these guys feel amazing all the time that they're the best? And then these people who are coming in, we only made money when they activated and actually use the platform. And so it's basically customer success has to get put in as a function on top of the affiliate base. And so then that becomes a regular cadence of communication with them. And then the same thing that we were talking about earlier with the sales coaching thing, which is like, what are the quantifiables? What are their demographics and what are the behaviors that they did? The ones that are the robust partners that do send you leads? What differentiates them from the ones that didn't? And then we just reverse engineered that into the actions that we put into activation on that regular cadence bore the affiliates. I know that was a lot of information, but.

• 43:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a lot. I just got to go flip the switch, I guess.

• 43:22Alex Hormozi?

  Does that make sense? Did that check out?

• 43:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's great. The playbook sounds really interesting.

• 43:26Alex Hormozi?

  Rock and roll. I appreciate you.