The Jonas Brothers Reveal THE TRUTH Behind Their Breakup & Comeback

Leave an Amazon Rating or Review for my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! The Jonas Brothers arrived in the SOG studio carrying 20 years of wisdom about surviving fame, failure, and brotherhood in the music industry. Kevin, Nick, and Joe open up about their darkest moments - from Kevin losing 90% of his wealth in bad business deals to Nick's daughter spending months in the NICU to Joe navigating public heartbreak while performing eight shows a week. Their vulnerability was striking as they revealed how hitting rock bottom individually made their reunion even more meaningful. The brothers share hard-earned lessons about balancing perfectionism with presence, choosing authenticity over approval, and building sustainable businesses that don't depend on chart success. Anyone building something with family members, recovering from public failure, or learning to prioritize what truly matters will find their story both inspiring and practical. New album, Greetings From Your Hometown, coming Friday, August 8 – pre-order/pre-saveTheir North American tour will be kicking off in New Jersey at MetLife Stadium on August 10 – tickets are on sale nowListen to their latest single “No Time To Talk”, out nowIn this episode you will learn:The one question Joe asks every young artist that reveals whether they're pursuing fame for the wrong reasonsHow Kevin lost 90% of his wealth in bad business deals and what he learned from hitting financial rock bottomWhy Nick writes "What do you want them to feel?" on his backstage mirror before every performanceThe Disney character rule about hugging that Nick uses as life advice for his daughtersWhy their six-year breakup happened and the core family issue they had to resolve to reunite stronger than everFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1794For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Teddy Swims – greatness.lnk.to/1611SCZedd – greatness.lnk.to/1713SCJon Bon Jovi – greatness.lnk.to/1608SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Today I sit down with the Jonas Brothers and what a conversation this was. I don't think I've seen an interview with all three brothers, opening up, getting vulnerable, and actually being real with one another, the way they did in this episode. They truly open up about the behind the scenes pressures, tough family conversations, and what it took to come back stronger than ever. I also asked them about fame, money, and success, and each one of them had a different answer on how they navigated and the lessons they've learned from applying it from an early age to 20 years later, since they started their band to where they are now.

• 0:41Lewis Howes?

  Talk about the family conflict that nearly tore the Jonas Brothers apart, and how they were able to come back from it stronger than ever. We talk about creativity, how to be creative, how to get in the flow at different seasons of life, even when your music isn't on the top of the charts, and it's not commercially received the way you want it to be received by the audiences and fans. We talk about the power of authenticity and vulnerability and building trust with your audience, and truly what it takes to rebuild after hitting rock bottom as a global brand. It was a powerful conversation that I got to just do with the Jonas Brothers, and each one

• 1:22Lewis Howes?

  of them truly shares some amazing insights that I think will help you in your life today. If you're enjoying this episode, please share it with a couple of friends. It's so cool to see how their relationship has evolved, and where each one of them are at mentally, emotionally, and physically in their life, and how they're able to still create art on their terms to make money and make a difference and an impact in the world. I hope you enjoy this, and let's go ahead and dive in right now. It's the first time we've done this. We've got three people on at once. Really? We've got the Jonas Brothers in the house. Good to see you guys. Thanks for having us. I gotta start with this. So much has happened in 20 years. Yeah. And I'm curious.

• 2:06Lewis Howes?

  What is the thing that you've learned the most about fame, success and money? That you could share with the world? Like the lessons you've learned about fame, success and money? Either from 20 years ago, like it coming into your life when you were just like riding around in a van with your dad, you know, to malls trying to like perform for 20 people to then, oh, now it's a ton of it. Fame everywhere, success, money. To 20 years later, how it's evolved.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Oh, man. For me, I think it's, it's, it's been interesting to have this relationship with, with fame for as long now as we, we have. Cause fame often doesn't equal success. It doesn't equal money.

• 2:48Lewis Howes?

  It's true.

• 2:49Speaker 01

  In fact, at, at times it can, it can create more hurdles. And, you know, preclude you from getting to those goals of success and money. And so I've had to redefine what the benchmarks of success look like at different stages. And also what realistic benchmarks of success and goalposts are financially.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  And the, the biggest learning in that has been that anytime I'm in my creative flow and doing something that's making me happy.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  The results are, are better. And it sounds very simple and, and it also, I understand, sounds very privileged. And I, I will balance that with saying, writing a song is incredibly difficult. And if you're not feeling positive in your spirit, if your, if your life's not balanced, then you're not going to write a good song. In the same way that an athlete is not going to play a good game if things are out of balance in their, in their life. And you know, I try to make something great while I'm in a great place that then creates a, a financial opportunity and result that is net positive. But sometimes you do something that

• 4:06Speaker 01

  you love and you feel great about and no one responds to it.

• 4:09Lewis Howes?

  How do you feel about that when people don't respond to something that you love?

• 4:13Speaker 01

  Well, I think that, you know, it's, it's very much, as we get to know each other, it's very me to say no one responds to it. I mean,

• 4:19Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  You know, I understand that it doesn't hit number one. And so as the, the game has changed so much in this 20 year period. You know, ten years ago when I launched my solo music, it was very different. The process would be you go into, you know, a radio station, do an interview and, and watch the song slowly grow at radio and then hopefully people start, you know, buying it or streaming it. Now it's just a completely different landscape and, and the way the algorithms are set up on streaming services and everything really make the, the listener more in control.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  But what it does is it then makes it harder for things to break through and when, you know, you referenced music coming out ten years ago, there's probably a thousand songs that came out on any given Friday. Now there's thousands of songs. And so I've had to start saying what really matters most to me and, and the three things are feeling like my life is balanced, staying in my art, staying creative and having fun. And then creating a sustainable touring business that doesn't depend on the success of a song on the charts or it's more about super serving our fans who are absolutely incredible and have supported us for this 20 year period. And then if something starts to connect on a, on a larger scale, it's just an added

• 5:41Speaker 01

  bonus. But I've, I've, you know, we have built the foundation to sustain without the need for an anomaly. And, and I think in any business, that is the, the key is, you know, building something that, that can, where the, the floor is not going to fall out and, and the ceiling is attainable and.

• 6:03Lewis Howes?

  Cause you don't need one hits, you don't need a big hit song to make money right now. You have multiple layers of your businesses for touring to merge to whatever else it might

• 6:11Speaker 01

  And then, you know, there is that, that rare thing that just finds its, its way and breaks through and it continues, you know, to give us motivation creatively as we, we get further and further into our life and career. To just be honest in our music and the stories that we're telling and you know, that's why I think this album, this album title really like resonated with us was because it's about just getting back in touch with our roots and, and making music that feels like we're back in our living room in, in Wyckoff, New Jersey with our dad playing music.

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, so sorry, that was a long-winded answer.

• 6:45Lewis Howes?

  I love it, man. Kev, what about you? What's, what's the biggest lesson you've learned from money, success and fame over the last 20 years?

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've seen it both ways, right? I've seen the beginning of the success to financial success, not knowing what money really was and understanding it to not having, to losing almost all of it, seeing bad, bad business deal. Yeah, no, I had a.

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  You almost lost all your money?

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Like, yeah, most of it, like down to the one, like 10% left, you know?

• 7:11Lewis Howes?

  Really? When, when was this?

• 7:13Speaker 02

  About nine years ago. Invested in, in a bunch of property and doing other things and I was building at the time and sadly, it just wasn't the right partnership, if you know what I'm saying? Can't really get too much into it.

• 7:25Lewis Howes?

  I get it.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  Um, but the sad part of it is, uh, learn, I've learned a lot of lesson in that. Um, and thankfully for life in general, like we had a second shot and bite at the apple with the band coming back together and it actually was like kind of fortuitous in a way, like I learned this lesson, never wanted to learn it, but I did.

• 7:45Lewis Howes?

  It's a painful lesson, man.

• 7:46Speaker 02

  Uh, but then at the same time, reevaluated how to approach life and, um, from that perspective and looking to the future and at the same time was able to really feel honored that we could have a second shot at it. And then I think from the business side of things, I look at our business as, we are like a startup, like any kind of thing, right? Like starting artists and other things, they have an album that they work on, their first album's there, you know, most of the time, twenties, you know, eighteenth, whatever it is, they've worked on that album for 18 years before that album's out, right? That's their first album is 18 years in the making, then you have pretty much the pressure to put out another album a year later, two years later. So the, the window of time, the life you spend.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  Between projects can sometimes be important. I think we've learned that. I think it's helpful for us to do that. Live a little bit of life to talk about it. You know, but then I think we look at our, the, I look at a band like ourselves as like a startup. You know, you've got, you have to start in your garage, making music, you're, you're, you build your product. You go out, you get an investor.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Our dad was our lead investor.

• 8:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, our dad was our lead investor. Um, he, you know, supports you, you go on, you start, you go on the road show. All of a sudden, you know, you get a, you say a second investment and that's the label. And then you have distribution and now there's so many more, like what people forget about this business is that it is a business and that what we do is like, oh, cool. We have to release this project. But the amount of stuff that comes with it, the amount of stuff that like happens on the backside of it to even make that a reality is challenging sometimes. And putting up a tour and having to make, uh, you know, choices to, to, to where to go and what kind of venues to play. And these are all really complicated conversations and decisions that sometimes need to be made. So it's nice to be able to have a teammates with these guys and our, on our management team that's been with us for so long.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  And I think, you know, we're a good unit now and sometimes it takes time to make decisions. And I think that's okay. I think for me, that's the hardship that I should face. Like I just want to make a decision and move and continue. Sometimes it's nice to, like Nick said, or Joe said, actually to take it, take it easy. Like that's what I've learned, I think in all of this is to take some time is okay to make a decision. You don't need to make it in the room and Nick's really good at that. He's like, I'll let you know.

• 9:58Lewis Howes?

  He's like, give me some time.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  But like he'll say, it's like, I don't know yet and it's okay to not know. And I think like for me, that's always like an insane thing.

• 10:06Lewis Howes?

  Stresses you out. You want to be like, let's figure out a decision.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Because I just wanted, I want an action plan. I just want to start moving forward. Um, that's my little complications, but.

• 10:14Lewis Howes?

  It's good though, because you need some of that. Otherwise it was just like, eh, we'll think about it for months. You know, you need someone giving the pressure of like, all right, here's a deadline. How long you can think about it, right?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 10:23Lewis Howes?

  You think about it and then we'll get back to me in a few weeks.

• 10:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 10:27Lewis Howes?

  Otherwise, you know, artists could be like, I'll think about it forever, right?

• 10:30Speaker 02

  Completely.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think oftentimes too, artists get a, a bad rap for, you know, for being, um, less structured.

• 10:42Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  Um, but I, I have worked with, with people that I really admire and respect, who you would think based on their work would be really efficient. Killers in the room, making decisions and leading. Often, those are the people who just go, I don't know. And I might not know today.

• 11:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  And give me two days, three days, and I'll let you know. And they come back with something that is as good as the time that they were awarded to think on it.

• 11:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 11:11Speaker 01

  And even in the moment, if you're like, this isn't efficient, this isn't the logical thing. It's like, it does end up, the results are better.

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  It's the artistic. My brother, my older brother, he's 11 years older than me. He's the number one jazz violinist in the world. So he's played and traveled the world with all the top jazz artists, musicians. And he's just, it's another, the jazz world is another level of like artistic expression of improvisation. And it's just, his mind is incredible. But he's probably the extreme version of you where it's like, you know, hard to make a decision and everything needs, and he's got some of you, it's like, he's so hard on himself if it's not the perfect thing in every moment. So it's like the indecision can kill him sometimes. And then needing to look a certain way, and it's like, what has to be my perfect artistic expression? And it's like, I'm never gonna do this type of art, cause it's, you know, it crushes my soul if it's not this way.

• 12:03Lewis Howes?

  And so I'm like, yeah, but you could make a lot of money over here, too. And he's like, ah, I can't put something out there unless it's true to the art form of jazz. And I'm like, all right, man. It's what makes him great, but also like kind of his challenge that hurts him from like.

• 12:17Speaker 01

  Oh, more than me?

• 12:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, making more money or, you know, being more commercial or whatever it might be, so.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:22Lewis Howes?

  What about you, Buck, for biggest lesson you've learned from fame, success, and money? What has it taught you?

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I think probably fame and success. But I think success was, used to be like plaques on the wall and sold out stadiums and arenas. And now it's just like a quiet morning and quiet time with my kids. Or like a destination, like that's success, like just being happy. Fame, I think, is like, it's something that naturally you look at and.

• 12:57Speaker 03

  It's like, oh, I like, I, when I meet young artists, I always ask them like, "Do you have any advice?" And the first question I ask, I ask them a question back, I'm like, "Why do you want to do this?" And if they say they want to be famous, I'm like, I usually look at their mom or dad, I'm like, "Maybe they should stick and stay in music class for a little longer, see if they like it." Because I think if you're getting into it for fame, it's just not, that's just not what it's about. I think like, it's, that is such a double edged sword and, um, we've been, I guess, poked many times by the other side of the sword in a negative way, where it's just not fun. Um, and it comes with a lot of pressures and especially as a young person, like we started.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  And there are amazing things that it also comes with, naturally being able to help other people through the power of music. Um, we've met some incredible people just recently, people that are, have been affected by cancer and we've spent so much incredible time with, um, people who are sick kids or are going through some crazy things. And you play a song that you think, "Well, this is like, oh, this is, we're gonna play this one on the setlist," and you look out and you're like, "Oh, that's that person's like, I got them through something crazy." And you hear these real stories. And you've sung it thousands of times. Yes, of course. And it brings up, like, our, we have a song, "Little Bird." We wrote it, we, we have this song that is essentially a dedication to our, our daughters.

• 14:19Speaker 03

  And now it's kind of taken a life of its own. It's, it's people usually holding signs, "Can you sing this about my father or a parent who's no longer with us?" Oh, man. "Or my child is no longer with us." And you're just like, ugh. And so, the fact that we can

• 14:36Speaker 03

  help, I, I think genuinely, a reason to do what I love is the fact that I can help others in some way. Whether it makes them feel something or distract them at a concert, like that part of fame, great. If I can help people, that's what it's about. Now, money, I think, um, I am probably, probably least money smart here, but I think I also like love to take, as long as I'm able to take care of my friends and family and like I'm good. I've smartened up because I had to, having kids. But I think like surround myself with great people that know what they're talking about. And that can make sure that there's longevity there. But also have fun in the process.

• 15:20Speaker 03

  I mean, I think it's like, I don't want to be just behind a desk. And I'm not, I'm grateful for that. But I should say like, in a sense of like just working all the time. I want to be able to enjoy why I'm doing this and go live life. And find the kind of simplicities. That's what it's about. So I think like if I can create amazing things for my kids and also keeping them in somewhat like humble creatively, that's what I hope for.

• 15:46Lewis Howes?

  Sure, sure. If you could go back before your first gig as a group, 20 or whatever years ago it was, and you can play your life 20 years in advance to where you are now. All the ups and downs, the success, the fame, the money, the loss, the, you know, heartbreaks, the, the, all the different stuff. What's one thing you'd say to your younger self right before you started? About where you are now, one piece of advice, let you start.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  I have one funny one and then I'll say the actual one. But remember your guitar on the first night. The first night we went on stage, I literally left it in the dressing room and had to run offstage and miss the, one of the two songs we played. So don't forget your guitar. But realistically, it's enjoy the moments because learn to celebrate, even the little, the little moments. Because we kept going so hard, so fast that we would kind of never look back and we never celebrated. And I think we missed opportunity to grow as people because of it.

• 16:50Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, okay, beautiful.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  I would say fame and criticism are two very different types.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Of obsession and they have different tastes and learn to not overeat.

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, interesting. Okay, Nick?

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Anytime throughout this 20, 25 years, I guess I've been doing this. I've second guessed my first instinct and gone a different, cut a different direction. I've regretted it. I feel like I would encourage myself to trust my first instinct and stand by it. If it doesn't accomplish what you thought it would accomplish or wanted it to, stand by it because

• 17:46Speaker 01

  more often, you know, the result is something you can be really proud of than if you've spent

• 17:54Speaker 01

  time cutting a different direction. So yeah, don't second guess yourself.

• 17:58Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, beautiful.

• 18:01Lewis Howes?

  I had Rick Rubin on a couple of years ago. I don't know if you guys know Rick Rubin, the producer?

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Very much.

• 18:06Lewis Howes?

  You guys worked with him or you guys know him or just know?

• 18:07Speaker 03

  The audience comes last. It's my favorite Rick Rubin quote.

• 18:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  We had not worked with him. I would love to.

• 18:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, he, I asked him about his creative process on the show and I asked him about if he worries about what the audience thinks when he's making his music. And he says, no, he says, I make the music for me essentially. I'm paraphrasing him. And I try not to concern myself on how well it does commercially. Now, maybe he's older and got all the money in the world and he doesn't have to worry about that.

• 18:33Speaker 03

  He's had all the success.

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, yeah, who knows? But it sounds like he's kind of always been that way. Who knows?

• 18:37Speaker 03

  No, I think he probably was.

• 18:38Lewis Howes?

  I don't know. That's, you know, I would like to think that way when I make, you know, an interview or a book or whatever it is. I'd like to think, I don't care what people think. I'm making this for me essentially is what he's saying. How do you guys navigate that? You kind of mentioned it a little bit about really getting in a flow state of doing the thing you love, making music or performing from a place of love, whether it's a sold out audience or, you know, half sold out. I mean, not that you guys never sell out anymore, but it's like.

• 19:03Speaker 03

  There are times.

• 19:03Lewis Howes?

  How can you show up when it's like, oh, we didn't sell out the way we wanted to or people didn't react or respond the way we thought they would? How do you guys make art without worrying about the audience, but also making sure you make money to survive?

• 19:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  The show I just did is an example of this, you know, it's eight shows a week and.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  The theater holds about a thousand people, so that's eight thousand tickets a week, or roughly around eight thousand, which is a lot of tickets. And that over, you know, fourteen week period. It's easy to look out and go, oh, this is only a thousand seats. This should be pretty easy. But, you know, it's, it ends up being a lot of tickets to sell. And so, yeah, there was a few shows where the houses were a little lighter. And on top of what Joe mentioned earlier about staying motivated amidst, you know, some criticism and what I truly believe to be

• 19:58Speaker 01

  just a theme in this last Broadway season of a feeling that there wasn't a, that there were some critical voices that were louder perhaps than the audiences were. The audiences would come and see these shows and it wasn't just our show. And they loved it. Loved it. But a critic's voice just rose to the top and became the narrative. But what motivated me was regardless of, you know, my first instinct, which was to look out and go, oh, man, there's, there's a few more empty seats tonight than there was last night. Or, wow, this is a bigger audience, was to, to look at the reaction and, and focus on the experience that's happening in real time.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  You know, I, I was speaking to someone who, who basically was saying, you're creating all these scenarios in, in your head. It's as if, you know, I, I put a box on the table and said, what's in there? And you, you created, there was a snake in the box. It's like you open it up, it could be something else. But when you've created this scenario, it's not, it's not that. And that's what I was doing during that show. I'm, I'm starting to listen to the, the negative more than I'm really taking a second, regardless of how many empty seats there are, to enjoy what was happening in the room. And so as far as like staying motivated and creative and flow state, all this stuff,

• 21:25Speaker 01

  it's, it's not easy and it's not just, it's not just our, our art form. You know, this, this could apply to someone.

• 21:33Speaker 03

  At their job at an insurance company, whatever your creative thing is, your process is, you know, staying positive, staying motivated, isn't always easy, but there are ways to tap into it. And I think that the thing that's helped me the most has been to talk to friends and family and open up whatever inner sort of life stuff I'm going through to get through it. What's happening like outside of your work that directly affects what's happening in the work.

• 22:03Lewis Howes?

  So how do you navigate that then, whether it's, and you can share this about, how do you block out the noise of the outer world? Or block out the noise of the inner world of the outer world so that you can stay present and focused on creating your craft? Because you guys have so many, so much busy lives, like

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:20Lewis Howes?

  Kids, this, that, touring business, ah, fans, ah, social media, it's like there's distractions everywhere. Maybe it's not distraction, but there's things that need your time and attention all day long. How do you block it out, the outer world and the inner world, to just say, hey, we're just gonna create art today. We're gonna focus on this and not be on the phone or check with this person or your kid, whatever it might be. How do we navigate that?

• 22:41Speaker 03

  There was a season of my life where I, it was probably the most challenging season of my life. And I couldn't escape comments and negativity and headlines. And so that was like the forefront of my day or getting a call, like, hey, there's this from a PR person, you're like, gosh, like, like, and you're just wanting to also gotta go show up.

• 23:09Lewis Howes?

  Put on a smile and be positive and yeah.

• 23:11Speaker 03

  And go on stage. And so I guess to answer your question, there was a director I worked with, J D Dillard, and above his monitor, he said, what do you want them to feel? And I wrote that on my like backstage mirror like every night. And you realize that

• 23:28Speaker 03

  This is their show, the audience's show, and they deserve the best. And it's okay to be vulnerable. I think you fight that for so long to be like, I gotta like, I gotta show these people that I... Ah, doesn't matter. It's totally okay to be like, yeah, this is tough. And this is like a challenge, but like, I'm here. And I think people respect it more. Authenticity wins, like always. And it's not always easy. I think there was times where I'd just break down to these guys and, or be like, I... And they would have a real conversation, like, "Do you wanna cancel tonight? Or do you wanna like, you know, not sing this song or that song?" I'm like, "Nope, I'll do it all." Because I feel like that's what they deserve.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  And I know that I'm not, we're not hyper-unique individuals going through certain situations in our lives. Like, everyone's going through something. Whether if it, you know, feels like it's a big thing in your life, or it feels like a little thing in your life, it's true, you're going through something. And it was so beautiful to be at, I was at a Coldplay concert in Greece last year. It must have been epic. It was like, honestly, one of the best shows I've seen live. It's like a spiritual experience, right? It really is. And Chris Martin says onstage, he said, "How unique is this moment when all..." And then we were about to go, I think, on the road again, so it was like, I needed this. He was like, "How amazing is this moment in the world right now,

• 24:53Speaker 03

  that thousands of people can be in one place and disagree on politics, spirituality, what you would have for dinner? And yet you can sit here and sing the same song and be like, arm in arm and like, happy." And I'm like, "That, there's not many things like that anymore." Yeah. You can't go to even film, TV, music. Like, there's so, it's very divisive. And obviously, what's happening in our world, it's, there's a lot of heartbreaking things, but the fact that we could go to a place where we're putting all that aside, and we all have core memories of a song that like, could be that person's breakup song, it could be that person's like wedding song, you know? And we could be in the same room or same arena. I'm like, "How lucky are we?" And I think that's what they deserve. So I'm like, "Oh, I could do that for them." And if I have to cry through this song, so be it. That's what...

• 25:38Speaker 01

  And just to add to that...

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Some of the folks from the show I was just doing came to see

• 25:47Speaker 01

  an experience that we did last week in New York. Basically, we were rehearsing, music rehearsal all week for the tour, and we just decided to open it up to do like a live rehearsal experience for our fans. And it was a few folks who wouldn't, I think, categorize themselves as fans. Maybe they know a couple of the songs. But I said, "Just come and just see what the environment is like because it is kind of magical." Like Jonas fans are so loving, and it's such a joyous experience that I'm not naive, like I know that there are people that I've invited to shows who don't know a single song,

• 26:28Speaker 01

  or would even like say it just never hit them in culture or whatever. But when they come, they experience kind of similar to what he's talking about, that euphoric feeling. And it's why I love that I get to do this as my job. Creating in the studio is like my safe place. It's my favorite thing in the world.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  But getting on stage and feeling that feeling is like pinch me. This is real life. It's amazing.

• 26:59Lewis Howes?

  Does it ever get old for you guys, just being on stage and having people scream your songs back to you?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  It's such an experience every single time. Like, I remember the feeling of starting the last tour, the five albums one night tour, and we're at Yankee Stadium and opening that up and then like, you know, the start of the show happens and it just is no music. Like the music, but like we hit the stage and it's silent, not silent, but there's no sound from us. And it's just the audience and the lights are on them and it's just

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  Just a roar.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  In that moment, we get to see all their faces. And it's just unlike anything else.

• 27:37Speaker 01

  I think as we've gotten older and we've got families and, you know... We're not 22, like it does, the travel aspect of this occupation at times can be a little

• 27:49Speaker 03

  tiring.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  tiring, but we're so, we're so fortunate and, and once we get to that venue and the music begins and we, we hear the audience, it's, it's even more significant for us because, you know, there was, there was a chapter of this 20 year journey where things were not going well and it was, it was post the, the first, you know, peak and, and gradually over a three, four year period as we

• 28:19Speaker 01

  moved further and further away from authenticity in our personal lives and relationship with each other. Our music started to reflect that.

• 28:26Speaker 03

  Really?

• 28:27Speaker 01

  And then people's desire to come and see a show or, uh, you know, uh, radio station's desire to play a song of ours sort of started to go down.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  Really?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  I think hitting a version of rock bottom for all of us made this second, maybe third bite of the apple and one that is far more sustainable now.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  Even, even more special.

• 28:50Lewis Howes?

  How does that feel when you, I guess, reach a peak and then there's a dip and maybe it dips for a while or, I mean, and your guys' dip is still big compared to most, you know, artists and musicians, but you've been to a mountaintop and you've hit this success of number ones and sold out arenas and then, oh, radio stations don't care as much or it's not as high on the charts or we're making less money or fans are not as connected. How does that make you feel emotionally or mentally? When that dip happens?

• 29:17Speaker 03

  I think the dip feels like, like you, you're jumping off a cliff. Like it, it feels so much more in that moment. Like you, you just see when we were there, like in that place and to your point, absolutely. Like we realize now that like that dip is not as great as we thought it was.

• 29:38Lewis Howes?

  But it feels like, ah, you can't, you can't control it, right?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  It's also like, is this it? Are we done? Like, okay, do we need to like, yeah. And I think like,

• 29:47Speaker 03

  I think what it really did for us, stepping away from it, was realizing like, okay, well, do you love this that much that you're gonna be willing to just not start over, but start where you're at and figure out what that looks like? And I think there was a season when like, I think like every young person, I can speak to this and I'm sure you, everyone that loved music, you go through a season where you're like obsessed with certain artists. And then you go like, that's not cool. That's, I don't like that anymore. And you go and figure out what you like. And then you go, actually, no, I, what made, what, you may have laughed at me for what I liked when I was younger. I'm proud of that. And that actually was a defining artist or band or

• 30:33Speaker 03

  a boy band, whatever it is to you in your life. And to see now like all those people run back was like, great. We've always, the door's always been open. And I think what like, we learned about ourselves back then was that it was, we needed to step away from the band to be able to like focus on family and focus on figuring out what we were. I think we were starting to kind of recycle material creatively. And it started to feel like we were coasting. I think we got comfortable too, like musically and creatively.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Well, it's that thing too where you start to like create alternate realities to not address the elephant in the room. And what was the elephant? And the elephant was that it wasn't that we were taking control artistically and just doing it ourselves. It's that we weren't confident that people that we wanted to work with would work with us. And when we finally just said that out loud,

• 31:28Speaker 01

  that, you know, we were basically stunting our own growth because we were afraid of rejection. It was, it was a big. Reality check and an important one.

• 31:39Lewis Howes?

  Rejection from who though, was it?

• 31:40Speaker 01

  Uh, producers and, and songwriters. Who, who we were, again, the alternate reality was, yeah, we don't want to work with them.

• 31:47Lewis Howes?

  But you're afraid they didn't want to work with you.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:50Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  And then we burst that bubble and.

• 31:52Lewis Howes?

  What was that fear though? Was it afraid to like, oh, they didn't take you as a serious artist or like a next?

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Misconceptions and I think personally like my, my thought would be like misconceptions of just like some of the past choices of like even working with Disney, like that's all of this is. And it's like, no, we wrote all this music before we ever teamed up with Disney and thank God we had them and they helped surge and gave us a platform for our audience to hear the music we created. And the music that Nick wrote in the basement of our Little Falls house in New Jersey, when we were in between labels when we were dropped, like that is the album that we called Jonas Brothers because that's the album, you know, that's what, that was his, that was his 18 years or how old are you? 15 at the point? Um, yeah, 15 years of that first album, you know what I mean? Like we had an album before that, but that really wasn't us.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  It was this one, right? That's why it's called Jonas Brothers. And we found our sound, we found who we are and we found our voice. I think that success has changed for me and I think seeing, having my family be able to attend shows, which I never thought was going to happen when we had that deal.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  Your kids.

• 32:56Speaker 02

  My children, yeah, because we broke up and they're just about to have our first. Like I never thought they'd experience the Jonas Brothers.

• 33:01Lewis Howes?

  What is that like having your kids show up in like?

• 33:03Speaker 02

  It's the greatest experience, you know, having my wife Danielle and my support there and that, that, that feeling is unmatched, but then having the, our, my two girls come to shows and bring their friends and be like proud.

• 33:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  Be excited and like be singing. We did this thing on Broadway and they're on like the, on the balcony and like they're like jumping, jumping around, singing a song like, it's like, it's unimaginably like nothing else matters. Like, cool, did it. Great.

• 33:32Lewis Howes?

  Cause you were a teenager when you started and now it's like, they're almost, well.

• 33:36Speaker 02

  You're almost a teenager, yeah.

• 33:38Lewis Howes?

  That is like, the emotion behind that must be surreal.

• 33:41Speaker 02

  And we're still doing, still doing it, you know, like now, now, now the requests come in though. So now it's like MetLife is like, dad, I need a box for all my friends to come. I'm like, okay.

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  Amazing.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  It's becoming very expensive.

• 33:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, right, right. Wow. This is fascinating.

• 33:56Lewis Howes?

  Something else that I think you mentioned, Joe, earlier in the interview is about how, and you kind of just said this, how you wrote the songs, or you were, you kind of led, you were a natural born leader, I think that's what you said about Nick. What was that like as you guys, as the older brothers? I guess.

• 34:12Speaker 02

  I think we needed it.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Allowing him to lead, or allowing him to kind of like.

• 34:16Speaker 02

  I think we needed it, we obviously all worked together, but I think we needed it, because at that point, we're a little older, and we're like, oh, we just want to hang out with these two girls that we just met.

• 34:26Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 34:26Speaker 02

  And Nick's writing this incredible music, and we come back and hear it, and be like, oh, okay, that's great too.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  I think there's pros and cons.

• 34:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  I mean, I think like, would, like, it took us a while to also like have mutual respect for like what we bring to the table. You know, that's three of us, and I think like.

• 34:45Lewis Howes?

  Cause he's like the younger brother too.

• 34:46Speaker 03

  Younger brother, so I think I was envious, probably with his natural talent too, I was just like, like, it's a bit unfair, and I think also, that's at the time, and I think also like, naturally people, like, he was an old soul, so he's like kicking it with like 50 year old dudes writing music, and I'm like, I'm like, and then, also at the time, I think because we were like, to his point, being like, we're older and we just want to like, I want to go on a date or something, or I want to go just have a night off, Nick's like, why do you not want to be in the studio right now? And so it's like.

• 35:19Lewis Howes?

  And how old were you at this time?

• 35:21Speaker 03

  Like 15 or 16.

• 35:22Lewis Howes?

  Crazy.

• 35:23Speaker 03

  And by the way, just like.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  I'm 20.

• 35:25Speaker 03

  So, you know what I mean, so.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  Cause to that point, I think like.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  I was motivated by different things at that time.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:31Speaker 03

  Eventually.

• 35:31Lewis Howes?

  The girls didn't kick in yet, right?

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I'm like, you just wait, kids.

• 35:37Speaker 03

  You know, it's like one of those things where, over years and years later, like, and it really happened, I think during the breakup, where like, we all had to go figure out creatively, like what we can do on our own.

• 35:51Lewis Howes?

  How long was that breakup again?

• 35:52Speaker 03

  About six years or so. And we called it a breakup, but like, we didn't have no intent to get back together, that was not like.

• 35:57Lewis Howes?

  Like, we're done.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  I think it was just like, there was too much under the rug to like, to roll up and say, okay, well, we're gonna address all these things that were problematic, and also things were good. Like, so, not being long-winded, I think it was a little bit challenging at times, and I feel like we had to.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Trust each other a bit more with being like, actually, you are good in this band. You are talented and I, all of us, and for different reasons, like I shouldn't maybe just be the person in the, like for me, I was like, like, the audience thinks you're a frontman, that doesn't, we were, there was never a choice for that. So it's like, we can all share the spotlight and we could all share the studio and we could all share songwriting. We could all share money.

• 36:41Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 36:43Speaker 03

  I'm just saying, like, it really was, like, we could share this experience together and all fronts and, um, we had to figure that out. Took a while.

• 36:50Lewis Howes?

  How long did it take you? I mean, I watched the documentary, it came out a few years ago, but for those who didn't watch it, what was the core issue that you needed to resolve as a unit, as a family, to be able to come back together? And let go of either the envy or the jealousy or the, whatever was swept under the rug that wasn't talked about? What was the core issue that you guys needed to mend and how did you mend it?

• 37:14Speaker 03

  I think we, a lot of people assumed that we had our together and we would talk about certain things and I think there's a aspect where,

• 37:24Speaker 03

  I think this goes for a lot of people in the industry. It's like, we're all just trying to figure it out as we go. And especially when you're that young, you say something and it's in print.

• 37:31Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 37:32Speaker 03

  Back then, we had printed things.

• 37:33Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  And people would just think that's, like, you go by that word, but it's like, well, we're also like seventeen, sixteen years old. We're figuring out who we are.

• 37:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  And so I think like what we needed to, there's a lot of things that we probably needed to have real tough conversations about. Um, but it like primarily as a, as a core of like a band, I think it was the dynamics of how we need to open the door a bit more for other creatives to be a part of this project.

• 37:59Lewis Howes?

  Oh, not just you guys.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Not just us.

• 38:01Lewis Howes?

  And allow others to have input or...

• 38:03Speaker 03

  I watched that happen a lot, like for sure, when we came back afterwards and seeing all the work that Joe had done independently with his, you know, solo music with DNCE and all the writers and the songwriters that he worked with, Nick in the same capacity. And then getting together in our first writing camp, with the three of us, coming back into the music scene as, as, as a unit, but having multiple rooms going with the people that they all loved working with.

• 38:26Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  And bouncing from room to room and doing it unlike I've ever done it was...

• 38:32Speaker 02

  So cool to see because there was no, there was no like, we have to be in this room. We're all writing together and this is the idea and that's it's like, I'm gonna start this idea. I'm gonna, Kevin, you jump in here with them, see how what happens and like, it became so much more like it was free. And because of that, I think it became authentic. And I think that deciding to understand that there are three very independent and very different people, even though we're brothers, is important. And also forgiveness for things that like, we were just trying to learn who we were.

• 39:06Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 39:07Speaker 02

  Or are.

• 39:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, we're still trying to figure it out, I guess. I'm still figuring it out. It sounds like you guys were trying to do all the work yourselves early on, or it was like having the pride of like, I want to write the songs or whoever it is. And you were resistant to allowing outside support, or you were afraid of them rejecting you, I guess. And now you're about collaboration. Let's just find the best people that can help us make great art, is what I'm hearing you say.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 39:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And how does that, how does that make you feel now that's more collaborative? Not just within you guys, but with others you respect as well?

• 39:41Speaker 02

  I think that we had a real chip on our shoulder in our, our youth and, and early days of the band, where we were really, you know.

• 39:49Lewis Howes?

  Trying to prove.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Trying to prove ourselves and.

• 39:51Speaker 03

  And we'd see a lot of young acts come up around our same age and see these guys be like, just handed. And we, we got so mad, they'd be like, we were like, you didn't pay any dues. Like that was kind of our attitude because we were a touring band for years before we even had somebody pay attention to us. So, sorry to interrupt.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  Because they were just like given a song by a great artist and they sang it?

• 40:13Speaker 03

  It was just like, yeah, we felt like, wait, we're over here playing our instruments and loading in our gear. And this young hotshot kid comes out of nowhere and steals our audience? That's how we thought, which was obviously like, nobody has the control of the music industry. Like, we, you know, it's like, not one solo artist that doesn't go like, we live 2025, it's this, today's, it's their, it's their year. Like, I kind of always get annoyed when I read like.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  You can blurt my name out, but Rolling, I don't care. But Rolling Stones, like, top songs of the year, our favorite songs of the year. I'm always like, so subjective. Because that, this is like, everybody can share this, so.

• 40:55Speaker 02

  I think we also made a lot of decisions in fear. Fear that everything was gonna fall apart. Everything was gonna disappear. That one wrong move, nothing was gonna be good anymore. So make, when you have, that is your first hurdle to get over before you make all the decisions, you're gonna fall down pretty hard.

• 41:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, interesting. Do you guys feel like you can make art and you can be successful and other people can be successful at the same time and hit the charts and tour out and sell out? Like, do you believe in having abundance for all artists? Or what's your thoughts on abundance?

• 41:25Speaker 01

  I think that there are certain artists who look at this music industry as something that can be dominated. And you can win it.

• 41:39Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 41:40Speaker 01

  And I think that that is completely insane.

• 41:44Speaker 01

  And it's, it's mean. It causes people to do things behind the scenes that are unfair to other artists who are trying to find their way. And I think that the business is just kinda set up to allow it.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  And I know how difficult, firsthand, how difficult it is to get anything made, to see an anomaly happen. And, you know, how many people are often overlooked and...

• 42:19Lewis Howes?

  Who are really talented.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Who are really talented and don't get that shot. And it's, it's because there are people trying to win the game. And it's like, it's just not fair. It's not kind. And I love seeing people succeed. And, and I love hearing music that can inspire me or touch someone else's life. The magic of that is, is, is real. So I think... Abundance gets a big cosign for me. I think everyone should win and I think it's good. And you know, if to Joe's point about a sort of top song list.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, it was, I think it was best.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Best.

• 42:57Speaker 02

  Not favorite.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Best, yeah, yeah.

• 42:58Speaker 02

  Or something like that. Favorite's different, but best is.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  But exactly, but if you wanna, like, if you wanna talk about best songs, look at all the music Lin-Manuel did for Moana. Like, as a father, my biggest learning has been, I'm tapping back into, you know, the brilliance of Disney's cinematic universe. Yeah. And some of those songs in those movies are absolutely incredible. Incredible, yeah. And, and what, that's not gonna be on that list, cuz it's not some indie act from wherever. Like, give me a break. This is brilliant musical stuff happening. And our dad was always, you know, very wise in that he, he would play us a, you know, a bunch of different styles of music, music genres,

• 43:44Speaker 01

  and different eras, and all that kinda stuff. And then, you know, the odd thing would, would get played that one of us would be like, "Oh, I don't like this." And he's like, "Well, they did something right." Hmm. So, listen. Yeah, it's interesting. And it gave us a far more dynamic sort of view of, especially in pop music. You know, what one could consider isn't like, great or excellent. A lot of people in the world love it. Yeah.

• 44:09Speaker 02

  There's nothing better than hearing a song and going, being like, "Damn, I wish I wrote that song."

• 44:12Speaker 01

  Right?

• 44:13Speaker 02

  Like, cuz it's just like, it's inspiring to hear great, and hearing like, just some-

• 44:17Speaker 01

  What's that one song for you? Which he wrote?

• 44:20Speaker 02

  Uh, it was, for, for me, it was "Yellow" by Coldplay.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  My gosh.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Like, when I heard that song for the first time ever, I was just like-

• 44:26Speaker 01

  It's a good one. But what about like, in the last five years? Ten years?

• 44:30Speaker 02

  Uh, last five years, ten years, um, uh, come back to me. Joe?

• 44:37Speaker 03

  I never wrote a song called

• 44:38Speaker 02

  No, no.

• 44:39Lewis Howes?

  He's saying comeback.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  This is the one thing I'm not good at is naming songs. I don't know why I've never been good at it.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  It's interesting. You can't do it.

• 44:46Speaker 02

  I can't do it. And they do it. They put me on the spot all the time.

• 44:48Speaker 01

  You can sing the song, but you can't hit me. That's not why I did it. Mine is.

• 44:51Lewis Howes?

  What's yours?

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Attention by Charlie Puth. If we had come out with that song, it would have been a number one record for us. It's such a great song.

• 44:58Speaker 02

  That's a great song.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'm like so jealous.

• 45:01Lewis Howes?

  When did he write that song? About five years, six years ago?

• 45:03Speaker 01

  Like 10 years ago, I think.

• 45:04Lewis Howes?

  God, that was a hit.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Hit.

• 45:06Lewis Howes?

  It was massive. It was incredible. It's so catchy.

• 45:09Speaker 01

  And he, so at that time, I was.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  Okay, now I'm back.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  I was doing some solo music and, and every now and again, a song would, would get to me that he had written.

• 45:20Lewis Howes?

  Did that get to you?

• 45:21Speaker 01

  To potentially cut, and that one didn't.

• 45:22Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you're like, dang it.

• 45:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, Charlie.

• 45:25Speaker 02

  He kept that one.

• 45:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm keeping this one for me.

• 45:29Lewis Howes?

  You guys are all dads and my wife's pregnant, so I'm gonna have

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Congrats.

• 45:34Lewis Howes?

  My first kid here in the next few months.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 45:36Speaker 02

  Amazing.

• 45:37Lewis Howes?

  And I want to get you guys advice on what it's like being a dad and any advice you might have for me becoming a new dad.

• 45:45Speaker 03

  Well, the first thing I did, what you're doing, is asking people, I hope you respect us, but people that I really respected, fathers, parents, parent figures in my life that I really looked up to. And would go to them and say, all right, what's the best piece of advice you can give me? Like you're quick, like table pitch. And I just collected it all, kept a few that I really loved and some that I'm like, I'll be good. But I think it's, for me, I've really been present and also like it's so humbling being a father. Where you'd be like, all right, let's put the devices away and you're just, they're like, well, you're on your phone. Well, you're right. Putting that, those into practice. Kind of trying to be a present person and present dad.

• 46:30Lewis Howes?

  What about you guys?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that that is the best advice is the phone really can take so many precious moments away. And because these these jumps in development happen so quickly when they're that small, you really can end up missing some of the the most special moments of your kid's life. So I've tried to do my best to put the phone in another room on charge or something and go and just spend some time and be present. And it's just a magical thing once you're really able to connect and tap in. So that's that's the advice. And I think you're gonna you're gonna handle it with excellence.

• 47:12Lewis Howes?

  Thanks, appreciate it, appreciate it.

• 47:14Speaker 02

  I actually heard this yesterday from a friend. They said, you know, you take 10,000 hours to be, you know, great at what you do. And they said, try to put in 10,000 hours with your children before the age of 10.

• 47:24Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  And I was like, whoa, thinking about it. And it's true. My daughter's 11, my oldest. And by the time they're already at that age, they've got their own friend groups, they're starting to live their own life. Like, it's not outside of your home, but like, they're they're definitely their own people in a sense. And you start losing time. I already feel it. And so 10,000 hours before 10 is a great goal.

• 47:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow. You guys all have girls, right?

• 47:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:50Lewis Howes?

  So what's the biggest lesson, or how have you all evolved as men from before having girls to after having girls now?

• 48:00Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things that we just didn't know because we grew up in a household of all boys. Our parents always joke and say they tried four times for a girl and got four boys. And, you know, I think having an amazing teammate in my wife and, you know, just the woman that she is has helped me and my daughter. We've all benefited from that. And, you know, it's amazing to be able to walk kind of side by side with someone as brilliant as her. It makes being a dad even more special and a girl dad at that.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  And mine's still so young that, you know, there's lessons down the road as she gets older. I'm sure Kevin's experiencing that that I will experience. But right now, I'm just kind of loving all of her interests. And it's that inherent thing in her that just loves purple and pink and princesses. And it's kind of incredible.

• 49:03Lewis Howes?

  What's evolved inside of you from becoming a girl dad?

• 49:06Speaker 01

  Well, our initial journey with parenthood was really kind of frightening. We had about a two and a half, three month period in the NICU with our daughter. You know, the beginning of her life was really a test, not only for her, but for us. You know, in these moments where life throws you a curve ball like that, how you react says everything about, I think, who your parents are and how they raised you and the foundation that you have. And luckily, our parents raised us to take that moment, to take a breath and cry if you need to cry or do whatever you need to do, but then to stand firm in your convictions and make a game plan. And so we quickly sprung into action.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  And while it could be very easy to let the tornado of, you know, events happening cause a breakdown, we stayed calm and I leaned on family and friends to get through that and basically have my first test as a father be one of the hardest, perhaps I hope, that we'll ever have to go through. And yeah, I think it was an encouraging thing that when truly tested with what was going to end up being a really tough couple of months, I was able to sort of find it within myself to stay positive and encouraged and get through it.

• 50:27Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful, man. Joe, what about you, man? What's evolved within you by becoming a girl dad?

• 50:33Speaker 03

  Everything. It's the greatest joy and journey navigating. I have two beautiful girls and...

• 50:45Speaker 03

  Before having kids, I think, you know, we have a really strong, incredible mom who raised four boys, which is like, as a parent now, I'm like, how did you do that?

• 50:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  Obviously, two amazing parents, but a really strong presence of a mom in our household, which I think really helped us kind of understand how to treat people and with respect. And so my little ones have like some incredible women to look up to, including their mom. So I have a great co-parenting relationship, which is really important to me. And I think what's changed or developed in me the most, I know a lot of unicorn names that I never thought I would know, you know?

• 51:32Lewis Howes?

  Give me a couple.

• 51:32Speaker 03

  Um, I think there's Polly, I think Rachel, some they made up, you know? I, I, I love the sensitivity and the gentleness of, of young girls have, but also the strength that they're like, you're building them up to be these incredible, confident superheroes. And it's so amazing to, as a parent, to be able to just, you can go through a bookstore and like, things that I, you know, you wanted to read, or things that now, in this amazing world, in this generation, where we can be like, grabbing books about Pride Month, things that I really love that my kids get to have, there's so many options.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  It's really lovely.

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 52:18Speaker 03

  And I think also myself, I think probably I've realized it's just day to day. It's really quite humbling and eye-opening to, to learn so much about myself within learning about them.

• 52:35Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm. I want to ask you, you know, you said something before, before we started rolling, that you said you wanted to make this honest, this conversation honest.

• 52:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, please.

• 52:42Lewis Howes?

  Like this would make it powerful. So when I ask you, Kevin, because you're, you're the oldest, and you have the most wisdom of the three, I'm assuming, because you're the oldest. What is the thing?

• 52:51Speaker 03

  Are we getting honest now?

• 52:52Lewis Howes?

  You know, exactly. What is the thing? That both Joe and Nick do really well as leaders in their life in general, that you really respect and admire? And what's the thing, being the oldest and the wisest, that you've observed of both of them? That you think they can both improve on?

• 53:09Speaker 02

  Oh, God. Okay.

• 53:11Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, don't tell them how to raise their kids.

• 53:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, so that's like a no-fly zone for any of us. It's like telling somebody how to drive.

• 53:16Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. But more of like, what do you see that they do really well in life?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  Okay. I thought we were still on parenting, so I got a little nervous there. What they do in real life, I think balancing their schedules in the sense of their family and their time, right? Like, we all have our individual lives outside of what we do together. And trying to find that balance between priorities, saying yes to everything, saying no when you have to, saying maybe, you know? It's like trying to figure out how to make sure that the work-life balance is truly there. They do an incredible job at it. Not always perfect, none of us are. But I think they are incredibly good at making sure they are home when they need to be home, and as much time as they can be, and still prioritize the growth of their business, the growth of them as individuals, still daily challenges.

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Like, Nick deciding to do this Broadway show that he did for the last, you know, 14 weeks, 14, 15? That is a gauntlet, right? It's eight shows a week. You don't have to do that. We could have.

• 54:14Lewis Howes?

  You've got enough money. You don't need to do that. Yeah.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  It's more about just like the craft and bettering yourself and choosing to do something that's challenging. And I think they both do that. Joe releasing a very honest album in the last six months. You know, he worked on it for a while, but like, being very, very vulnerable in the songwriting, the performances, the way he presented it, like, the amount of time spent online to promote it. Joe, you know, finding new ways to do that through, you know, TikTok, social media. How they can do better.

• 54:44Lewis Howes?

  What's one thing each one of them could improve on in their life that you think and you see as the wiser, older brother?

• 54:51Speaker 02

  I do not have this answer. I really don't. I'm not gonna upset us.

• 54:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, what's the?

• 54:55Speaker 02

  No, I like, I don't know. Since, um...

• 54:58Lewis Howes?

  We said honesty.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I'm with you. I just don't really, I just really don't really know, if I'm being completely fair with you, but the answer is for Joe.

• 55:10Speaker 02

  Letting others choose a restaurant at times. Joe does a very good job of curating.

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Good answer.

• 55:15Speaker 02

  Joe does a very good job of curating the experience. He takes a lot of pride in where we go, where we eat, what kind of coffee we drink. And sometimes.

• 55:24Speaker 03

  He's good at it.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  He's very good at it. Sometimes it'd be nice to just do something else sometimes.

• 55:29Lewis Howes?

  So what's the deeper meaning underneath that?

• 55:32Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 55:32Speaker 02

  Uh, having a choice in the conversation.

• 55:36Lewis Howes?

  Allowing others to have a choice in the conversation?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Without having offense be given.

• 55:40Lewis Howes?

  Oh, so not like taking control of everything?

• 55:42Speaker 02

  It's not just because we have a suggestion does not mean your suggestion is not.

• 55:45Lewis Howes?

  Ah, okay. And, and what about, how's that land for you? Does that resonate at all?

• 55:50Speaker 03

  It's, I'm aware of this. I'm no stranger to this and I think I've gotten better at it. I used to go to, we'd like show up in a city to visit Nick and I'd be like, oh, I'm gonna show you around. He's like, I've been here for, I've, I've actually been here. And I have also visited this place when we were younger at the same age.

• 56:12Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I've gotten better. We did go to a restaurant Nick, Nick decided on.

• 56:16Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's good.

• 56:17Speaker 03

  That actually meant a lot to me. And there was no, there was no like pushback. He recognized that I haven't been in my home city for like six months. And I was like, I'm dying to just go and I'm gonna go there regardless. It's sort of the.

• 56:28Lewis Howes?

  You're the cop or not, I'm going.

• 56:29Speaker 03

  And he, he allowed us to go there.

• 56:31Lewis Howes?

  That's great. And what about for Nick? What's, uh, something that you really admire and respect? And then one thing that you see he could improve on?

• 56:38Speaker 02

  I think I mentioned the, the challenging himself continuously. Um, I think that that is something that I find really impressive. Still pushing the boundaries, sometimes when you don't really have to, but like still choosing to. Um, improve on for me, it's just my personal experience. Uh, when he's going through a frustrating time, voicing that, vocalizing that frustration instead of, uh, retracting.

• 57:00Lewis Howes?

  So what is that? You mean he, he kind of holds it in the frustration?

• 57:03Speaker 02

  Personally, I think he internalizes. And so then he, so I get nervous that I'm going to overstep if he's trying to process. And I don't know, I want to help because that's just my personality, but I also sometimes don't know how.

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Interesting, okay.

• 57:18Lewis Howes?

  And what about, what about for you with both of them? One thing you admire about your older brother? And think that he could improve on and one thing for Nick as well?

• 57:26Speaker 03

  I think Kevin is, um.

• 57:28Lewis Howes?

  And maybe you guys already talk about this stuff all the time, but I'm just.

• 57:30Speaker 03

  We don't actually talk about it enough.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Really?

• 57:33Speaker 03

  Yeah. It's not, it's like the time that we have to.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  To just hang outside of work is like better spent, I think, enjoying what we're doing and not like just having tough conversations, but this is great. I love, this is like my favorite kind of promo.

• 57:48Lewis Howes?

  Awesome.

• 57:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 57:51Speaker 03

  Kevin is, Kevin is thoughtful. He's very, um, he's, he's a incredible father and partner and it's amazing to watch him like navigate, like I think we used to tease him on his like quick red eyes after a show to get back to his family until we had our families of our own and we're like, oh, we're like, oh, we get it. Like you, that course you want to be as much as possible be with your, your family and be present with them. I think, um, what he can improve on, I would say probably

• 58:29Speaker 03

  just relaxing and chilling out a little bit more. Being able to just like pump the brakes and be a little less hard on himself.

• 58:38Lewis Howes?

  How so? Is he just, you mean he's just always driven for more or he's always frustrated with that he's not creating or?

• 58:44Speaker 03

  I think it's probably, um, my assumption or knowing you so well, it's probably making sure that like pleasing others and then he puts the pressure on perfectionism and making sure everything's like, nothing can go wrong. And then if something goes wrong, it's like the castle's falling. And I think like,

• 59:04Speaker 03

  being easier on yourself.

• 59:07Speaker 02

  I like that.

• 59:08Lewis Howes?

  Well, there's a, uh, there's a book called The Birth Order, which is about kind of the order of like our, you know, our siblings being birthed and like the first born is supposed to be the most perfectionist, have the most responsibility on them. So maybe that's through you being, you know, the oldest of wanting to be perfect at everything.

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's definitely some, I'm not trying to be perfect. I just feel like there's definitely an attempt to manage and it's not necessarily good all the time.

• 59:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, right. Okay. So how did that land for you?

• 59:37Speaker 02

  Good. I totally get it. And yeah, I do need to chill the

• 59:41Speaker 03

  What about this guy?

• 59:44Speaker 03

  He is a natural born leader and within our band as well. And he is just coming off of like doing one of the most challenging things, I think, as

• 1:00:00Speaker 03

  a friend, but a bandmate. I mean, going and doing a Broadway show in general is like very challenging. And with, as like, his like, two thirds of this and also one third of this. And also, speaking for us, and also watching him kind of navigate this, this mountain that he just went after. It's a beloved, for those who don't know, it's a beloved theater show. And it's already gonna have a lot of eyeballs and critics. And I guess, voice is a part of a show like this. And it was like unwarranted negativity when it was announced and a lot of, lot of, lot of like. There was a lot of negativity.

• 1:00:45Speaker 03

  A lot of, it was just tough. It was about the casting to the show itself. And we went to opening night, it was brilliant. It was like beautiful. I went to opening night and the opening preview and I was like, you're crushing it. And this is like, he sings the entire show. Wow. Him and, Andrea and Warren, they're both brilliant, or were brilliant. And, you know, it's just an uphill battle. And then award season, like Tony Award season. It's like, it's, you're constantly fighting this kind of thing that's, the theater world, it's, it's a, it's a whole league of its own. And I think a lot of the time, it's like, very insulated.

• 1:01:23Speaker 03

  And I, you know, witnessed him like have to, even on like, you read a tough, and we've gone through it, but it's not, never, it's never easy. You read like a tough review or tough like tweet, and you gotta go like, put on a good face and go do the show for the people that have bought the tickets. And so I think like, that was really impressive, how he was finding the why of like, why do this show?

• 1:01:47Speaker 03

  This isn't, that's not fun part of this business. Um, and him navigating that and still going and crushing it and never missing a show.

• 1:01:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow, eight shows a week.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, eight shows a week and also then like spending time with his daughter and wife. And being present and being there and showing up and waking up early, hitting the gym, eating clean, not drinking as much like. That is just a challenge in itself. It's very athletic and I was really impressed. And I could see how it made a great change on his personality. Now the, what he could work on.

• 1:02:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:21Speaker 03

  I would say it's, it's goes hand in hand with the first one, which is probably when these opportunities arise. It's always like an obvious yes, but I think probably maybe thinking about. Okay, like what do I really need? Because we go so much, like we just move and we, we're just naturally born like. I don't want to say workaholics, but we love what we do. And so time off is like somewhat abnormal to us.

• 1:02:53Lewis Howes?

  It feels weird when you guys aren't doing a project, huh?

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  Right. And we, because we love it. And so I think, I think that opportunity that comes, I think I would encourage him. To say, you know what? Maybe I don't know yet, but maybe I do need a break.

• 1:03:07Lewis Howes?

  Hmm. Interesting. You never really take a break, it seems like, huh?

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  Once a year, once a year, we go on like a little vacation.

• 1:03:17Lewis Howes?

  Like what, a week or two or like?

• 1:03:19Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, a week to 10 days.

• 1:03:21Lewis Howes?

  And that's it?

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  It's kind of it. I mean.

• 1:03:23Lewis Howes?

  You're just on nonstop.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a product of loving what we do.

• 1:03:29Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  You know, being incredibly motivated by the fact that I see the runway of opportunity. Has, um, thankfully been extended for, you know.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Let's call it fifteen to twenty years. I'm thirty-two. I think it's realistic that that's possible, but that runway exists and I can't ignore that. None of us can. And it's about building something that I can be proud of when I'm, you know, twenty years down the line, hopefully sitting on a beach enjoying the time that I, I'm sacrificing now.

• 1:04:07Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:09Speaker 01

  But I think that's a good perspective and good outlook. And thank you for what you said about the, the show.

• 1:04:14Lewis Howes?

  That's great.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  That meant a lot.

• 1:04:15Lewis Howes?

  That's great. And what about for these two guys? We'll save the youngest of the group for last, you know?

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think Kevin is, very wise financially. And he, as a part of, our business equation, because you know, we're brothers, we're family, obviously, we're bandmates, we're creative partners, but, we also run a business. And we're kind of co-CEOs in that sense. So we really have to, kind of lean on each other for different things in different areas where we excel. And, he certainly does when it comes to the financial aspect of the business and kind of operating, you know, the business part of it, which is wonderful and takes pressure off of us, to be in the weeds on that.

• 1:04:58Lewis Howes?

  You're kind of the creative director of the financial aspect and the vision of the...

• 1:05:03Speaker 02

  I just think just managing the day-to-day on it, like there's, constant things, you know?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Logistics.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  It's a lot. It's a very large ship that moves, very fast sometimes, but also very slow at others. And, you know, it can take time.

• 1:05:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:17Speaker 01

  And then I think, the thing that he can improve upon is that I think he creates hurdles for himself and his desire to, say what we've all kind of said, which is to please, you know? When it comes to what he said about me and, when I sort of go and hermit, you know, when I'm going through something,

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  I think sometimes he takes that personally. And it's actually just about me processing or someone else going through their journey. And it doesn't need to be fixed. And it's not your fault. It's just... It just doesn't need to be fixed in that moment.

• 1:05:53Speaker 01

  Joe has a carefree ease and ability to, I think, kind of see the good in everything and everyone. Even when situations that are thrown his way are unfair, where he's characterized in a way that is unfair. Or, you know, we all live this public life and you have to sort of take the good with the bad and know that who you are with the people that love you and surround you is who you are and not necessarily always what the world sees or thinks.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  But he has this ability to see the good and it's reflected too in his music, his attitude on stage and the way he treats people and I really admire it and I'm grateful for it because I don't have that as easily.

• 1:06:46Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 1:06:47Speaker 01

  I have a tendency to be sort of a little bit more cynical at times or

• 1:06:52Lewis Howes?

  Skeptical.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  Skeptical. And I can see the times in which it directly reflects my ability to perform my best or, you know, that's not just on stage but in the studio or if I'm in my head about something. And he's got this great ability to kind of pull out of it. Something he could work on.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  I mean, I think that the very thing that makes you great can also be the thing that makes it difficult at times. So when there's like an important conversation business-wise or creatively and he's more carefree and has an ease to him, like, it's like, let's lock in.

• 1:07:28Lewis Howes?

  Focus. He's like, ah, whatever, you know?

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  But again, it's like the brilliance of what makes us all dynamic and

• 1:07:37Speaker 01

  excellent teammates is that we have these like, things that make us great. It also is, you know, it's a double edged sword of it.

• 1:07:45Lewis Howes?

  So I've got a few final questions for each one of you, but you've got the new album coming out, Greetings From Your Hometown. It's out August 8th. And you're kicking off the tour at MetLife Stadium, which is cool because it's kind of like the dream stadium you guys saw growing up near your hometown.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:58Lewis Howes?

  Where you're like, maybe one day in the future, we could go play here. And now you're about to go sell this thing out and kick off this tour. What are you guys most excited about the album and the tour for people to know about?

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  This tour for us is a celebration of this 20-year journey. Our last tour was basically five albums in one night. It was a really ambitious show where we basically played everything from our five albums in the show. This is different because we're going to reimagine some of the songs, not just from our music catalog, but from Joe's solo stuff and DNC and from my solo stuff and my side project. And so it covers a lot of ground. And then there's a real kind of story aspect to it as well.

• 1:08:48Speaker 01

  And it's going to kind of end with us effectively creating sort of a version of what it was like to be in our living room with our dad playing music.

• 1:08:58Speaker 01

  And how we do that visually will be really fun to pull off. But then at the core, it's just about what those songs were. So our first song we ever wrote together, "Please Be Mine", when you look me in the eyes, which was really our first kind of hit that we wrote with our dad back in 2004. And so it's going to be emotional and a celebration. We've got Marshmello, who we've done two tracks with. He's going to be a big part of the show. And then All American Rejects are support for the tour and they're killing it right now. If you've seen any of their pop-ups, they've been doing it like these house parties. But it's going to be a really, really fun night. And for anyone that is a fan, we can't wait to see you, obviously.

• 1:09:40Speaker 01

  But for those that wouldn't, as I mentioned before, like just come and experience it. And I guarantee you, you will be uplifted. You'll feel some joy.

• 1:09:49Lewis Howes?

  Are you guys coming to LA?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I gotta come. I gotta bring my lady and come out. That'd be amazing. So hypothetically, you all get to live as long as you want to live in this world. You live 100, however old you are, and it's the last day on earth. So put yourself in that timeframe many years away. And you've accomplished all of your dreams, everything. And you've lived a life personally, professionally that you want to live. You've made all the arts, you've had all the downtime, all the different stuff. It's all happened for you. But for whatever reason, in a hypothetical scenario, all of your content, your music, anything you write or post online, it's erased or it's gone. And we don't have access to your content or your songs anymore. But on this last day, you get to leave behind three lessons.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  And you get to leave them behind to your daughters. And you get to share it with them, and they get to share it with the world. What would be the three things that you would leave behind? The lessons you would share to your daughter about the things you've learned in life? I'll let you start, then you, then you.

• 1:10:53Speaker 03

  Sure. Being nicer than you need to be. Like, it's so much...

• 1:11:01Speaker 03

  Being nice is cool. And also,

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  go to compassion before assumption.

• 1:11:16Speaker 03

  Constance Wu speaks about this. I encourage everybody to watch it, it's really... There's a video for her on the Light Night Show, she speaks about this. And the third is probably,

• 1:11:31Speaker 03

  I thought this was fascinating, but...

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  I don't know, it's on a show, it might have been yours, honestly. But learning that Disney characters

• 1:11:44Speaker 03

  are taught to, yeah.

• 1:11:46Lewis Howes?

  Hug.

• 1:11:46Speaker 03

  Are taught to hug a child until the child lets go. And I think

• 1:11:55Speaker 03

  for your sister and for your family and friends, hug until they're ready to let go.

• 1:12:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, man, that's beautiful. That gave me a chill, that's cool, man. What about you, Kev?

• 1:12:06Speaker 02

  I think number one is,

• 1:12:12Speaker 02

  work everything out with your sister. Don't forget that she's gonna always be your number one. You know, me, your mom, will be gone, but you'll have her. And work it out. Two, explore the world. See it, get after it, like, go...

• 1:12:39Speaker 02

  Wake up early, walk the city, like, you know, like I want them to feel and know more than just their hometown. And three, it's okay not to be good at everything. Hmm. It's, it's just about the try. It's just about working on that. We work on that constantly with our youngest. She took a long time to find what she liked. Mm hmm. And it's like, it's okay not to be okay with like be good at it. And just, just work at it, like do your best.

• 1:13:14Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful, beautiful. Nick.

• 1:13:17Speaker 01

  You'll never regret being kind.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Even when it's, you know, even when that seems impossible, you'll never regret it.

• 1:13:29Speaker 01

  Make sure the door is always open and the table gets bigger. You know, everyone is always welcome in our home and they have a place to stay, they have a place to eat. The door is always open. And last thing I would, I would say to my daughter would be your mother's a saint. She's never done a single thing wrong in her entire life.

• 1:13:50Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  She's the best.

• 1:13:52Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful. Final question for each one of you before I ask it to you, I want to acknowledge you, Nick, Joe and Kevin for your authenticity, your honesty, for your vulnerability, for your love and the joy that you bring to the world every single day. Individually in your families, you know, we have a lot of mutual connections and friends and I only hear great things about you guys.

• 1:14:12Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:14:13Lewis Howes?

  So I appreciate each one of you and how you show up in the world artistically, personally. You know, no one's perfect. We're all trying to figure stuff out and we're all got room to grow, but you guys bring a lot of joy to the world individually and as a group. And I think that's really inspiring. So I want to acknowledge you guys for that.

• 1:14:29Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:14:30Lewis Howes?

  And I hope, and I hope to see you continue to change many lives for many years to come. And I'm just grateful for you guys. My final question is what is your definition of greatness? And we'll start with you.

• 1:14:41Speaker 01

  Definition of greatness would be.

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  It would be seeing

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  seeing that it is possible to achieve great things and

• 1:15:02Speaker 01

  remain a good person. That is greatness. It is

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  hard for a lot of people to balance it. And they think they have to sacrifice one or the other. You don't.

• 1:15:17Speaker 01

  We got to watch a hero

• 1:15:21Speaker 01

  do it with such ease. Our father. He's in my mind, the definition of greatness.

• 1:15:26Lewis Howes?

  Beautiful. Joe?

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Do you have the ability to do what you love and

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  to be kind along the way?

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Definitely agree. Our father is such a great example of a human being. Navigating life through his unreal journey and I think if the people that I really look up to are like

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  are

• 1:15:56Speaker 03

  really good at what they do, but also are really kind and really take, like, I want to be like them. That's greatness. I want to be like that person or I want to like learn from them.

• 1:16:07Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. Kev?

• 1:16:09Speaker 02

  I think having a healthy

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  relationship with my family, my children, my wife, my brothers, my parents, extended family, truly like I think that will

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  always make me feel like I've achieved the most.

• 1:16:29Lewis Howes?

  The new album is out, the tour. People go watch you on tour. Jonas Brothers, thank you guys so much.

• 1:16:34Speaker 03

  Thank you, sir.

• 1:16:34Speaker 02

  Thank you. Appreciate it.

• 1:16:36Lewis Howes?

  It was awesome. Amazing.

• 1:16:37Speaker 02

  Loved it.

• 1:16:38Lewis Howes?

  I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And

• 1:17:22Lewis Howes?

  now it's time to go out there and do something great.