Moment 109 - How to Overcome & Push Through Your Hardest Times: John Eckbert

In this moment John Eckbert discusses how he was able to make it through the darkest and most difficult period of his life and the lessons that he learned that made him a better person and CEO. This period challenged every identity that John gave to himself: a husband, a partner, and a father. However, what remained stable during this time was his position as a business leader and the trust that things will improve, you just have to keep showing up. Looking back, John believes it is important to remember that we end up being grateful for the worst periods in our life, as they end up making us into the people we are. Listen to the full episode here - https://g2ul0.app.link/2aX2AjoQIzb Watch the Episodes On Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/TheDiaryOfACEO/videos Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Steven Bartlett?

  ¿Cuál fue tu momento más difícil?

• 0:04Speaker 01

  ¿Mi momento más difícil?

• 0:06Steven Bartlett?

  ¿En tu viaje con Five Guys?

• 0:08Speaker 01

  Sí, bueno, pasé por un divorcio muy doloroso y pasé por algo llamado "dejar para eliminar", que no me gustaría a mi peor enemigo. Esencialmente, es el derecho de tener a tus hijos fuera del país. Así que tenía dos niños jóvenes que el sistema judicial aprobó dejar para eliminar, lo que permitió a mi ex llevar a mis hijos a América, lo que fue increíblemente doloroso. Y toda mi visión de mí mismo, mi definición de quién era, cambió. Pensé en mí mismo como un gran compañero, buen esposo, buen padre, padre devoto.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Sabes, estaba en la política en América, estaba involucrado en mi comunidad, líder de la iglesia y empresario. Y pensé, sabes, todas estas cosas son quien soy. Y esencialmente, todo eso fue, sabes, bastante un gran fuego de vanidad. Y ese fue un momento real y oscuro para mí. Y había días en los que Five Guys era la única cosa en mi vida que estaba estable y que podía sostener. Y eso realmente me llevó a través de un tiempo muy difícil y oscuro personalmente.

• 1:29Steven Bartlett?

  ¿Cuánto tiempo llevó ese proceso?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  Eso es parte del desafío de los EE. UU., llevó años. Una parte mejor de dos años estuvimos en ese proceso. Y luego, sabes, tratar de reconstruir esas relaciones. Y afortunadamente, estoy en un lugar increíble con mis hijos ahora y he aceptado que tenemos una relación más adulta prematualmente, pero ahora que están en la universidad y se sienten más normales ahora. Y esas son relaciones que se lucharon duro, se ganaron duro, recastan, que, sabes, son realmente importantes para mí. Pero la idea de que estaban en riesgo fue...

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Caused just enormous anxiety and in living with that kind of anxiety on the personal side, having a having a place where, you know, things were more predictable was in being able to work in that way and provide for them was, you know, a real, yeah, really helped me through.

• 2:42Steven Bartlett?

  When your kids are essentially taken away to another country and you you've got this huge responsibility of running this big business, how does how does that impact your ability to show up every day professionally?

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, I mean, it was it was it was really complex for me because I had a non compete back in the US, the business that I had sold, so I couldn't just relocate back to America and do my job. So it felt like a huge catch 22 because I had these court ordered financial obligations and the only way that I could really fulfill them was to keep doing my job here. So

• 3:18Steven Bartlett?

  Court ordered financial obligations is in the separation costs and stuff that you have to pay your part?

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. So it it felt like a catch 22. They were allowed to leave, but I had to provide for them. So I had to stay. So it was it felt like a kind of a indentured servant for a bit. But, you know, being able to to focus on on the important job that I had actually was enormously relieving because I knew that for, you know, 10 hours a day, you know, 12 hours a day, whatever it whatever it ended up being, that I could actually do something productive that I knew I was good at, that made a difference for them. And that was it the the anxiety of being separated, I could set aside for a

• 4:07Speaker 01

  few, you know, for those hours in a day. And that was really helpful. It could have just kind of overwhelmed me. But work was able to it was it was a place where I could where I could escape from that.

• 4:20Steven Bartlett?

  Did you see your motivation fluctuate? Often when we have these like pretty substantial life events, there's an initial period where getting out of bed in the morning is a little bit more difficult. It's almost like someone has messed with your why, your reason to get out of bed and your sense of purpose.

• 4:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:36Steven Bartlett?

  So you always have to I've I've learned from my own experiences that you have to spend a little bit of time. You're almost faking it. To get to get the drive back, if that makes sense.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  No, of course. No, well, you know, I told you I got up at 5 a.m. when I was a kid and practiced violin for an hour before before school. And what I mean, I was never a great musician, but what I did find was that if you did something every day, you actually could get better at it, maybe even more than competent. And I think it was something like that, that just in me, you know, said, you know, get out of bed, do the next, do the next thing. And something, things will change. You will, I called a friend of mine who'd been through a similar situation. And he said, you know, just keep showing up, you know,

• 5:24Speaker 01

  you know, texting my son every day, calling, you know, every day, being as present as I possibly could. And, you know, obviously, it's imperfect. And it's deeply upsetting, I'm sure to them as well as as well as to me. But doing as much as you possibly can to be available and in touch. And then you just have to trust, trust something that it'll be okay.

• 5:51Steven Bartlett?

  Trust something. I think just trust life that it will.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  No, I mean, you know, I now we're getting very personal, even but, you know, I believe in a higher power. I don't, I don't pretend to understand it. But I think there's something much more powerful than I am in the world. And what I will say is that it helped me to see the world in two camps. One are things that I can control, and some things that I absolutely can't control. And if you spend, if you allocate your mental health and your time on the things that you can't control, you can drive yourself to distraction and mad, eventually madness. So being able to focus on the things that you can control, and realizing that that's your job.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  You know, your job as a human is to do the things that you can control. And if you, if you, you know, it's just, it's just arrogance and ignorance to focus on the things that you can't control. And so identify those, identifying those two camps and being at peace with that, accepting that you can't, some things you can't control, that's really hard, but it's hugely important.

• 7:01Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I was at this festival this weekend and there was a, I did one-on-one meetings with lots of people that were in the audience for three hours. And I found myself being asked over and over again how to deal with exactly that, which is when chaos arrives in our lives, what to do on that day. And people had me recording these voice notes for them for that day. So when that day comes, they just wanted to be able to play it. And what you said there is exactly what I said, which is there are a small list of things you can control. And on that tough day, make a promise to me that you'll spend a hundred percent of your mental energy focusing only on those things. Cause you can't, cause obviously yesterday focusing too much on that tends to lead to depression is I think the Lu Siao, the philosopher says, focusing too much on tomorrow and the things that are yet to be in your control will also cause a lot of anxiety.

• 7:45Steven Bartlett?

  So really focusing in on today, I think is just phenomenal advice in terms of, A, it's the thing that's most conducive with a successful outcome. But B, it's also the thing that's most conducive with having a healthy mental state in total chaos.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  No, I think that's absolutely right. I mean, I think the other thing is that realizing that our, I believe our purpose in life is human connection. I think that's why we're here. I think we're made to connect. And sometimes it's, you know, we're colliding, you know, and more than connecting, but, but figuring out how to connect with other human beings. And I will say, you know, that was the making of me as, uh, in being able to, to, you know, when someone comes into my office and says, you know, I've, I've lost my, I've lost my partner, you know, they, they passed away, you know, way before their time, you know? Being able to connect with that person in that moment of loss is hugely valuable as a company.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  But hugely meaningful to me as a human being. And I wouldn't have been able to do that if I, if I hadn't been through the loss that I, that I had experienced. So, you know, it's one of those things where you end up being grateful for the, the most upsetting things that happen in your life. Because I think they're the making of you in many ways.

• 9:07Steven Bartlett?

  Because of what you said at the start of this conversation about that importance of feeling like you belonged and that's so evident that that is much of the reason you've also been successful is you're you mean even from the short conversation we've had you strike me as a very empathetic person who is able to connect with others. That moment must have been presumably even more difficult because your sense of belonging in that moment was was taken from you to some degree. The family unit, right?

• 9:32Speaker 01

  No, for sure. That was that was a yeah, that was a defining moment. But now, you know, the thing about about five guys is that we have these eighty six hundred people who get up every morning and have this shared vision mission to make great burgers and fries for hungry customers. And I get to be a part of that. And, you know, I get to be a part of this larger community that has this and that, you know, winning in business feels fantastic, right? I mean, it's a real it's a real high. It's a it's a it's a drug and it's an addiction. And being a part of a community that had that's accomplishing this thing, you know,

• 10:16Speaker 01

  we were the we were the eighth fastest growing business in twenty sixteen, I think, in the UK and the fastest growing food and beverage business. And even with that, we never met a budget that I had made. So we were, you know, we were fastest, but, you know, still behind by my mind. And being a being a part of this community that shares our our values and that are all working towards this is enormously satisfying. And and yeah, fills something that that, you know, has always been empty.

• 10:48Steven Bartlett?

  Some days as CEOs, we maybe we're tired or, you know, we're in a bad mood or something's off. We can sometimes not show up as ourselves. And sometimes when that happens with me, I regret it. So I'll go home and think, I just wish I'd, I wish I'd handled that situation differently. Does that happen to you a lot where you think, ah, fuck, I wish I'd been in a better mood or I'd slept more today or something?

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, Julie tells me.

• 11:16Steven Bartlett?

  Who's Julie?

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Julie, my head of ops, she comes in and says, you really fucked up that meeting.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  But actually, having, having somebody who, you know, to me, the, the, one of the worst things that can happen are these, you know, emperor has no clothes, where, you know, where the, where the, where the, the most important, powerful person in a business has blind spots that, you know, everybody knows about and somehow you, you know, you work around. And, and that's just hugely dangerous as a business. And having people who can come into your office and go, John, that, that was, you know, that comment was just way out of line or really unhelpful. You know, you now have people thinking like this. Is that what you wanted? So people who can confront power with truth. And, you know, to me, that, that kind of

• 12:05Speaker 01

  culture is hugely important to a company because you can go so wrong with the emperor has no clothes and people thinking, God, we know this, we just can't tell them to that person.

• 12:16Steven Bartlett?

  How do you cultivate that? Because I imagine a lot of CEOs and a lot of team members that work for a CEO think, oh, there's no way I could give my CEO and tell him that was wrong or he shouldn't have said that. Or she shouldn't have said that.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  I think publicly owning your shit is really, is really helpful in that way. You know, so, so showing up at the next meeting and go, hey, you know what? I said this to the last meeting and that was just really wrong. It was off and, and, you know, I was, I was off my game or, you know, I didn't think it through. And, you know, and it should be the opposite. It should be the opposite of that. And, and, you know, showing that you can respond to that kind of challenge, I think is, is, is important as a leader. And then you give everybody else permission to do the same thing. You know, I mean, you can change your mind. You're allowed to change your mind. You're allowed to be wrong as a, as a fallible human being too. And, and confessing that is powerful.