Vicky Pattison - ‘You don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft’

Vicky Pattison was 22 when her life changed and she was cast in reality TV show Geordie Shore. She was on the show for nine seasons between 2011 and 2014, during which time the cameras followed her falling in love, becoming engaged, then breaking up. Now 37, Pattison has rarely been off our screens - whether it’s as a finalist on Celebrity Masterchef or winning I’m A Celebrity in 2015. She’s a radio presenter on the Heart network, is fronting a new Channel 4 dating show called The Honesty Box and has a new podcast, Get A Grip, which she co-hosts with Angela Scanlon. In this candid episode, Vicky talks openly about her lifetime struggle with PMDD and how it affects her every day, fighting the fear of becoming an alcoholic and how so much has changed since the days of Geordie Shore. This bonus episode is brought to you by @arlalactoFREE - all the taste, easier to digest. ✨ IN THIS EPISODE: 00.00 Intro 02:00 Fame and Geordie Shore 05:00 Growing up and getting married 07:00 First failure - failing her driving test 12:00 Ex boyfriends and resilience 14:30 Dad and alcoholism 22:00 Vicky on having children 25:00 Egg freezing 29:45 Second failure - a failure to be still 34:00 What wellness is for Vicky 38:00 Self-worth 41:00 Handling social media as an over-sharer 43:30 PMDD and how it impacts her 46:00 The affect of PMDD 53:00 Final thoughts on Geordie Shaw Have something to share of your own? I'd love to hear from you! Click here to get in touch: howtofailpod.com Production & Post Production Coordinator: Eric Ryan Studio and Mix Engineer: Matias Torres Sole & Gulliver Lawrence-Tickell Senior Producer: Hannah Talbot Executive Producer: Carly Maile How to Fail is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment Production. Find more great podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment at sonymusic.com/podcasts To bring your brand to life in this podcast, email [email protected] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Elizabeth Day?

  This bonus episode of How to Fail is brought to you by Ala Lacto Free. Delicious dairy with all of the taste, none of the lactose.

• 0:17Elizabeth Day?

  Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that redefines failure as data acquisition. There is no such thing as a mistake if there's a lesson wrapped up in it.

• 0:26Speaker 01

  You don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft. I was a mess at 30. I'm 37 and I'm still not there. I've got to the point where I've shared so much, like, I just don't know where that line is.

• 0:40Elizabeth Day?

  Vicky Patterson was 22 when her life changed and producers cast her in a reality TV programme called Geordie Shaw. She was on the show for nine seasons between 2011 and 2014, during which time the cameras followed her falling in love, becoming engaged, then breaking up with her then-fiance. Patterson was an instant hit with the viewers, becoming known for her humour, her sometimes chaotic personal life and her vocabulary. Her catchphrase, "Tachon", became a new entry in the Collins Dictionary. But this was just one part of her TV career. Now 37, Pattison, who studied drama at Liverpool John Moores University, has rarely been off our screens.

• 1:24Elizabeth Day?

  Whether it's getting rave reviews for her caramelised apple as a finalist on Celebrity MasterChef, or winning I'm a Celebrity in 2015, Patterson has become a beloved figure in our national culture. Along the way, she's also published bestselling memoirs and novels, built up an Instagram following of over 5 million, and campaigned for wider recognition of women's health issues. She's now a radio presenter on the Heart Network and is about to front a new Channel 4 dating show called The Honesty Box and a new podcast, Get a Grip with Angela Scanlon. "I'm not kidding when I say I always wanted to be famous", she wrote in her 2014 memoir, Nothing But The Truth.

• 2:08Elizabeth Day?

  "I come from a family of attention seekers. When we get the karaoke system out on Christmas Day, it's like the Hunger Games." Vicky Pattison, welcome to How to Fail.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  I learned something about myself in that little intro.

• 2:23Elizabeth Day?

  Did you?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  I thought I'd tell everyone I did 10 series of Geordie Shore, but it was just the nine.

• 2:26Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, well, there you go. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  You've outed us.

• 2:31Elizabeth Day?

  But the impact felt like 10.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  God, mate, it felt like 20. Still does feel like 20. Poor little body.

• 2:37Elizabeth Day?

  Does it? How did it feel? Actually, I was aware when I was reading out that introduction in front of you, that I started off with something that you have worked really hard to become more than.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49Elizabeth Day?

  And I hope that was okay.

• 2:50Speaker 01

  No, please. I don't feel any type of way. It is still one of the things that I get recognised for the most, Geordie Shore. And ultimately, that does make sense. Like, I spent five years of my life doing it, you know? It's a show that's still repeated, that's still doing the rounds. And I've been really honest about my conflicted feelings about my time spent on Geordie Shore, you know? They were my formative years. Like, who hasn't made mistakes and done silly things that they probably wish they hadn't in their twenties? Mine were just all televised. And I still maintain that I probably didn't have the skills as a young lass in our early twenties

• 3:28Speaker 01

  to navigate everything that was going on. So I'd like to think I've done a lot since then. I've changed. I've grown up. I've worked on myself. But do I mind when people, like, quote bits back to us and stuff? Like, no, it was still a part of my life. And let's be real, mate. I wouldn't be where I was without Geordie Shore, you know? I've got to recognise that. And I'm very grateful to everything that, that show, that opportunity MTV gave to us.

• 3:55Elizabeth Day?

  And I think, I mean, I would find it so difficult if my twenties were played out on the screen.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  Oh, mate. Actually, like, I was still just a kid, like, figuring it out, you know?

• 4:04Speaker 01

  And I thought I would really mourn the loss of my twenties. I think, like, most women, I have a fear of getting older. This amazing thing happened when I hit me thirties. I just loved them. Like, I loved them. Like, I stressed less about what everyone thought. Still, habitual people, please, I don't get us wrong, but it was alleviated slightly. I learned to accept myself for everything I was and everything I wasn't. I just, I don't know. Felt a sense of liberation and comfort and acceptance came with me thirties I never had with me twenties. It's almost made me less terrified about the impending forties.

• 4:42Elizabeth Day?

  Let me tell you, if you think your thirties are good, your forties are amazing.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Mam says things like this all the time.

• 4:47Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 4:48Speaker 01

  Bring it on.

• 4:49Elizabeth Day?

  Now, does it help being married to someone who understands reality TV? Because your husband was in The Only Way Is Essex.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think that's a common misconception. Like, Erk, bless his heart, was in The Only, like, was in Towie for five minutes. Like, blinking, you would have missed him. That was a real bone of contention for him. Um, but I always think he was too nice for reality TV. And that is not me being judgmental or in any way disparaging about people who are successful within reality TV, because I myself is one of them. But he is just the kindest guy. And I don't think that was a bad thing. I don't think that was his journey. What Erkan is, is just incredibly kind and supportive and thoughtful and patient. And all the things, actually, that I probably wish I was more of.

• 5:35Elizabeth Day?

  Oh.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  So, um.

• 5:38Elizabeth Day?

  Vicky, what a beautiful thing to say.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  No, I always get a little bit upset when I talk about Erkan, because I waited a, a long time for him. Um, for somebody who was all those things, all the things that actually I didn't know I needed. And probably in me teens or me twenties would have dismissed, you know, oh, he's too nice for me. Or I'll chew him up and spit him out, like, you know. But actually, he's been the best thing that's ever happened to us. So, you know, he, he's just kind for loads of other reasons. And understanding for those other reasons he didn't have to be in reality TV too.

• 6:13Elizabeth Day?

  I think kindness is the most important quality. And like you, I think it took me a long time to put that at the top of the list for a romantic partner. There were tissues just there.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I'm going to.

• 6:26Elizabeth Day?

  You did say, you did say, I'm going to cry.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  I was really hoping, oh gosh, no, ruining the place. I was really hoping I would have gone a little bit further in before the water.

• 6:36Elizabeth Day?

  You're fine, you're fine. And tell me a bit about that thing that you wrote in your memoir about always wanting to be famous. So where did you get your idea of fame from? Was it watching TV as a kid?

• 6:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think my, my family are all the same. And actually, I think more than anything, less about the fame, I just wanted to be successful.

• 6:54Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  I didn't matter, it didn't matter to me how I got there. Whether it was, you know, reality TV or the radio or the TV or writing books or any sort of thing. I just wanted to be successful.

• 7:07Elizabeth Day?

  Let's get on to your first failure because your failures are so good. And I know that a lot of the things that we've touched on in the introduction, we're also going to get deeper on in the failures. Your first failure is your failure to drive.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Crap.

• 7:21Elizabeth Day?

  So you've never passed your test?

• 7:23Speaker 01

  Never, I've never even taken a proper test.

• 7:26Elizabeth Day?

  Okay, tell me more, why?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  So it will surprise absolutely no one to know who's familiar with my previous work. That when I was younger and everyone else was like learning to drive and stuff. I was just quite drunk all the time. I was from about 16, 17, going out all the time, working in bars and nightclubs. And it just wasn't a priority of mine to learn to drive at all. My priority was always just having a good time. And then at 18, moved to Liverpool to go to uni, lived in the city centre. Everything was walking distance again, so much fun to be had, like. Getting me provisional licence was just not top of the agenda, you know. It was like three Jägerbombs for a fiver and sort of dropping on bars, you know. Kissing Scouse boys, I loved it all, it was exciting.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  And then I left uni and then I, I really was under the impression, I think I've probably watched too many rom coms, but I thought you left uni and like as you were standing afterwards with your cap and gown, somebody walked up to you and was like, I'm from so and so company, we, we, we can't wait to hire you. Do you know what I mean? One of those and you moved off to a city and got a high flying job and started a complicated relationship with a gorgeous, mysterious man across the, across the way.

• 8:39Elizabeth Day?

  Obviously, played by Harrison Ford, done.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Tick. Um, and it wasn't like that. There was three hundred thousand graduates my year for thirty thousand graduate jobs. So the vast majority of we were just rendered a little bit redundant. Um, so me and my pal were like, right, we are going to have six months of fun before we get our heads down and join the rat race and be grownups. And we moved to Ibiza and we lived the best time, like we were on the bones of our arse, mate. But we just had so much fun and like, oh, used to blab away and all the great nights and, oh, I just loved it. Came home and within a couple of weeks had got found for Geordie Shore. It just feels like I've been on this real, like conveyor belt, this like super fast hamster wheel, whatever you want to call it.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  And driving has never really been a priority of mine. Um, and then a couple of years ago, I say a couple of years ago, it's probably ten now, I don't know where the time goes. But I did a driving show with E4 called Celebrity Driving School. Don't pander to us and say you watched it, nobody fucking did.

• 9:45Elizabeth Day?

  I saw the trailers, I did see the trailers.

• 9:49Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, it was a bit of a swing and a miss that one. So yeah, they're going to all be hits. Um, but yeah, so I remember making that, in my head, I'm making a TV show, you know. Um, but in the instructor's head, I was learning to drive and our, we had very different ideas about what we were doing. Um, and out of like sixteen celebs or something, I was the only one that they wouldn't let sit their driving test.

• 10:11Elizabeth Day?

  They wouldn't even let you sit it?

• 10:12Speaker 01

  No, they would not. He called my driving style, get on this, highly unpredictable and very dangerous. He said I was not only a hazard of myself, but others and that I would never pass.

• 10:24Elizabeth Day?

  Oh my gosh, if you hadn't already written your memoir, I'd say like A Hazard to Yourself and Others would be a great title. That's savage.

• 10:31Speaker 01

  There's plenty of time, yeah, but I'm one.

• 10:33Elizabeth Day?

  Did you feel, when you were behind the wheel of the car, did you feel out of control?

• 10:38Speaker 01

  So the thing is, like, I'm, I'm probably, I'm probably undiagnosed ADHD in fairness. Um, it would, it would explain a lot. Um, uh, and I subsequently am either like hyper focused or completely disinterested and I can get distracted very easily as well. Um, and so subsequently, like, I'd be driving and I would be really trying at first to listen to them and watch the cars and be observant and all those things that are necessary to be a good and safe driver. And then there'd be a dog and I'd just be, oh, there's a dog and it'd be a Mickey and I'm like, oh, yes. So I, and like, he wasn't a bad guy, he was doing his best and he probably said what he said out of complete frustration, but it's never left us.

• 11:21Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 11:22Speaker 01

  It's never left us. And I've tried a couple of times since, you know, to like do an intensive course or get a driving instructor locally. And it's just always ended in, not, I think disaster is hyperbolic, but close.

• 11:36Elizabeth Day?

  It's so interesting what you say about that phrase or those phrases, never having left you.

• 11:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:41Elizabeth Day?

  Because I think there is something for women who have grown up in a certain culture, in a certain decade, when they've come of age, where social conditioning wasn't often that friendly towards women having their own agency. And so we become people pleasers, as you mentioned. And then someone can say something that to them, they won't even think twice about.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  Very cavalier and throwaway.

• 12:04Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, but we internalize it so deeply.

• 12:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:08Elizabeth Day?

  Is that, can you recognize that in yourself?

• 12:10Speaker 01

  I hold on to everything, absolutely everything. And like even, even going back to when I was on Jodie Shaw and I was a very divisive and, you know, quite outrageous character, a caricature of myself, if you will.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  The things that people would write about me or say about me, whether it be comments online or the press, I still remember them. And in like my deepest, darkest moments, you know, that three o'clock in the morning when you can't sleep, like I get treated to a highlight reel of that, you know?

• 12:45Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  I had this one really horrible ex-boyfriend who used to say to me,

• 12:51Speaker 01

  You, that's unfair. We were just, we were toxic together. But he used to say, you think you're Vicky from the jungle, but I know you're Vicky from Geordie Shore.

• 13:04Speaker 01

  And I think that was his way of, of reminding me of, of what people potentially saw me as and just basically honing in on me deepest, darkest fear and really giving that a platform. So yeah, I, I, I do think, I do think sometimes we are, we're our harshest critics, aren't we?

• 13:24Elizabeth Day?

  That is so upsetting, Vicky. And I'm so sorry you had to bear the brunt of that. Because for me, that speaks of someone who is so insecure in themselves that they have to lash out at someone else who they perceive to be more successful and powerful than them. And I'm sorry that you had to hear that.

• 13:40Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. Honestly, it was, it was a bit of, it was a, it was doomed to fail, that one. And I probably wasn't great either. And we can recognise all of that now. Do you know what I mean? Hindsight's a really nice thing. But yeah, you don't let go of stuff like that in a hurry. Like I say, I dwell on it.

• 13:58Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, we were chatting beforehand about the fact that we're both Scorpios, November Scorpios, and we will bear lifelong gudges.

• 14:03Speaker 01

  Oh, never forgive or forget.

• 14:06Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah. I'm like Arya Stark in Game of Thrones. I just have a list of names. I still remember them. Can we talk a little bit about the drinking years? Because you've spoken about them so openly and so movingly in the past, particularly as it pertains to your dad and the documentary. Yeah, the tissues are there on the left.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Tissues there, Elizabeth.

• 14:25Elizabeth Day?

  This incredibly powerful documentary you did with your dad.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:29Elizabeth Day?

  Examining his alcoholism. And I know that we started off talking about a failure around a driving test, but I was so intrigued that you explained that by saying there were these kind of lost years for me. How is your relationship with alcohol now?

• 14:50Speaker 01

  I think for a long time, I genuinely believed that I had this predetermined destiny, this future that was completely outside of my control. And ultimately, because my dad was an addict, and I was his daughter. And I was always told when I was growing up, you're your dad's daughter, you're your dad's daughter. And again, people probably didn't understand how I was internalising that and taking it, you know. But I just believed I was ultimately going to become an alcoholic like my dad. And I do have a very addictive personality, you know. So it was, for me, a foregone conclusion. And I wrestled with that for years.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And you say a lot of that on Jodie Shaw.

• 15:41Speaker 01

  But now, through years of like, therapy, counselling, life coaching, personal training, working on myself, distancing myself, changing my lifestyle, changing the people I spend time with, everything. I would describe my relationship with alcohol as healthy. But it's taken us the best part of like, 20 years to get there. And there's still a part of me that is afraid that old habits will die hard. And I will end up like my dad. But I think that fear, that recognition, is the thing that will stop me. At least I hope it is. That's what my dad told us himself.

• 16:26Speaker 01

  He said, when we're making the documentary, he went, you're so worried and so scared of ending up like me. And he says, but you've got one thing that I never had. And he says, I was never afraid of this. He says, you are, and you don't want to be like me. And even though that's heartbreaking, because I want so much more from my dad. It is the truth, and it is his reality. So, yeah, I would say I'm in a good place now. But I think when you've had, when you've been exposed to what I have as a child, and as a young adult, and even as an adult, when you have an alcoholic parent, you potentially live in fear of becoming the same.

• 17:14Speaker 01

  Because you've seen what it can do to a person and a family. And also, like, the pull is, I feel like, for me,

• 17:24Speaker 01

  you know, when you've had a hard day, or someone, you know, there's a bad article, or you're feeling overwhelmed or exhausted or overstimulated, my go-to was always alcohol. It's always like a medicinal thing. An emotional thing. But I've had to work hard to remove that. But yeah, it does still scare us, mate.

• 17:46Elizabeth Day?

  You're so strong and so eloquent in your pain. And I really want to thank you hugely for sharing that.

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Oh, honestly, it it's taken us like, yeah, it's taken us years to understand me dad's illness. And that itself, like, honestly, if I can implore any child of an alcoholic, any child of an addict who is struggling to understand, who is has a complicated or strained relationship with a parent, like, I would implore you to work hard to try and understand it. I, for years, was so mad at me dad. So mad at me dad.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  That he, and I ask myself these questions all the time, like, why doesn't he just love us enough to stop? But it's bigger than that, and it's not that. Um, and I think once you take the time to understand the illness, then you do feel a sense of, you give them grace, you give them grace, but you also can't enable them, you've got to hold them accountable. It's finding the right balance, isn't it? I feel really grateful that me and me dad were able to do the documentary. And I was able to understand my relationship with alcohol and also understand his. Because it brought work fundamentally so much closer. It allowed me to exercise some compassion, mate.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  And and realise, potentially, I had been enabling him, you know? Feel it as a vulnerability to addicts that sometimes gets overlooked

• 19:21Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  in people's rush to have them condemned.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  You you stop to realise there's a person behind it, and there's probably a

• 19:32Speaker 01

  It's probably something significant that sparked it, you know. Nobody wants to be an addict. And I think like, once you sort of understand that there is a real potential to enable, oh, it's fine, you've had a drink, it's fine. Don't worry, Dad, I understand. God, I would have done the same. You're only human.

• 19:55Speaker 01

  And these things, even though you think you're helping them, you're not.

• 19:59Elizabeth Day?

  Well, especially as a child.

• 20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:01Elizabeth Day?

  You want to normalise your parents' behaviour as well. So that's, it must have been so difficult and it must continue to be. How is your dad doing?

• 20:12Speaker 01

  Oh, I see my dad so good. He's actually on the train down now to come and see us.

• 20:16Elizabeth Day?

  Okay.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  My relationship is great now. It used to be very strained, but it's brilliant. He, um, he is, he, he just, he says himself, he says he'll always be an alcoholic. Sometimes he's in recovery. And he is beaten. The illness.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  And sometimes, sometimes he's not. It's not a linear thing.

• 20:39Elizabeth Day?

  Can I ask you a really big question? Not that these ones haven't been big.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  Oh, because this is just a warm one, Elizabeth.

• 20:47Elizabeth Day?

  Don't worry, it's actually, yeah, well, it's, it's something that I am really passionate about. And you have been so open about, and I've really respected that. Which is the journey to being a parent, potentially. So I'm someone, I've had loads of unsuccessful fertility treatment, basically, and I'm not a parent, I'm at peace with it. But I also went through egg freezing.

• 21:07Speaker 01

  I just don't have enough tissues for the day.

• 21:09Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, my darling, I went, are there any left? Oh, no, I'm so sorry. I love you.

• 21:19Elizabeth Day?

  You shared your egg freezing journey online and I was so grateful to you for doing that. Because people don't understand how invasive and emotional that is. And it's offered as this kind of cure for people who might not be sure about when they want to have a baby and feeling like the timing isn't right. And actually, there's just lots of complexity to it.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:43Elizabeth Day?

  And I just wondered, given everything that you have so beautifully shared about you and your dad and parenting and children, how much this plays in your mind?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  Oh, mate. It's like, right at the start of the documentary. I say, I think I was about thirty two when I did the doc. Ten thirty seven now, I say, I know I haven't had children or even entertained the idea of having children. Because I was so terrified believing that becoming an alcoholic for me was a foregone conclusion. And there was a huge genetic element to it, which I still believe there is.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  That I was just gonna have, I was just gonna give birth to children who were fundamentally broken like me.

• 22:34Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, but you're not fun, you're not broken. I might have you thinking that. Don't be sorry. I won't have you thinking that. You're so perfect. You are such a radiant shining being. And you are perfect in being the person that you are. That's so upsetting. I'm so sorry.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  No, and like, please don't, please don't apologise. Like, I had had to work through an awful lot.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  My house, like my mum and dad are the best and I just absolutely have to have that as a precursor to whatever I'm gonna say next. And I had a really nice childhood with a happy home and a gorgeous family who loved me. But it was very different to what a lot of other children and families experience as their norm. Do you know what I mean?

• 23:30Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 23:30Speaker 01

  I grew up in a house where like, was loud sometimes. And it was scary sometimes. I don't know what type of parent I'm gonna be, Elizabeth. No, I know no one does. But um, I have fears about the type of parent I could have been if I was still on the trajectory I was on from say ten years ago. And that is, in my opinion, not someone who is fit to be a parent. I wasn't fit to be a parent. And um, it's took years of like work on myself.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  To get myself to a place where I do believe I could actually be a nice mum.

• 24:18Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  And the heartbreaking thing about that.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  It's like twofold. One is that's why I get so upset when people remind me of who I used to be. Because I think if you knew why I'd worked so hard to get away from that, you'd maybe give us a little bit of grace. Secondly, it's after doing all this work, putting in everything, you get to the point where your body

• 24:48Elizabeth Day?

  Mm.

• 24:49Speaker 01

  is gonna find it hard to give you a baby. Do you know what I mean?

• 24:52Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  And I just think it's really unfair on women. Like, we're just expected to have it all figured out by the age of thirty.

• 25:00Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Like, fuck me, I was a mess at thirty. I'm thirty seven and I'm still not there. Like, you know, and I just think the odds are totally stacked against where to be able to be everything we want to be.

• 25:14Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  And I thought by freezing me eggs and sharing me journey, I was potentially doing something responsible. I was giving women this alternative to fucking rushing and having a kid with the wrong bloke because you felt like this biological body clock was ticking. And I remained steadfast in that belief, but what I wasn't prepared for was the backlash that came with it.

• 25:38Elizabeth Day?

  That shocked me too. I, I, it's the amount of people with no skin in our game who have opinions about what we should do with our bodies is shocking to me.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  I know. And like, I know this whole like, no uterus, no opinion is like gaining some traction, quite rightly so again at the moment. And I believe that. But you know, the hardest thing, and you'll get this, is when these opinions came from women.

• 26:05Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  And I don't know why it hurts us more when women are disparaging about us, but it just does.

• 26:11Elizabeth Day?

  For what it's worth, Vicky, there are two things I want to say to you. One is I found it very moving when you said, I just wasn't convinced I'd be a good mother. And I think I had my time of thinking that too, because it wasn't happening for me. So then, if you believe in the universe and things working out as they should, there was part of me that was like, why isn't this working out? Is it telling me something about how I'm not worthy of this?

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:40Elizabeth Day?

  And the thing that helped me through that, and I know you have two beloved dogs, and I have a beloved cat, and I realised how I was with my cat. And I know that that sounds trivial or stupid, but honestly, I mean it really sincerely.

• 26:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:54Elizabeth Day?

  I see how you are with your dogs. That to me is the bigger sign that you are going to be an amazing parent. And I just want you to know that. And the other thing that I want you to know is that if for whatever reason it doesn't happen for you, there's this amazing peace on the other side of it that I never believed existed. But I'm here now and I'm here to tell you that it is. And there are different ways of being a parent. And but I I just, I firmly believe in both of those things for you.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  That's really reassuring. And this is why I think we need more, like fertility needs more sunlight.

• 27:32Elizabeth Day?

  Totally. I love the way you put that.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Candace, it needs more brilliant, brave women speaking about their alternative experiences. But the thing is, when you have these really loud, judgmental voices, you understand why people don't share.

• 27:47Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  And it's because of stigma, it's because of fear of judgment. It's because actually, it is such a hard, emotionally difficult thing to go through. You're so exhausted just by that output, like to share it with anyone else feels impossible. But ultimately, we need to get past that, we need to push past it. Otherwise, we're never going to get to a place where people understand it, where people understand these different routes to being a mother, whether that be surrogacy, whether that be like egg freezing or adoption, or actually choosing to not have kids, like all these things are okay and they're beautiful. But people are scared to talk about them because of others' reactions. And it's this cycle, isn't it?

• 28:28Elizabeth Day?

  Hello there. Thank you so much for watching this powerful and moving episode. Now, I wanted to take a minute to talk about the episode sponsor, Ala Lacto Free. I believe wellness comes from the inside out. So you can do all the yoga or gym sessions you like, but ultimately, what you eat is absolutely essential for feeling well and energized. The thing is, my dream Sunday morning is probably a big bowl of yogurt and berries, followed by thick slices of cheddar on a hot buttered crumpet. And my cat, Huxley, then licks the plate, because he's a cat with great taste. What can I say? But I'm also aware, I can sometimes feel a little discomfort when digesting regular dairy. This is where

• 29:12Elizabeth Day?

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• 29:35Elizabeth Day?

  So your second failure is your failure to be still, which is actually quite funny, because you've just got up to go to the loo. But wait, it's more, it's deeper than that, in that you thrive off being busy, as you said, and you find it hard to switch off.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. In every, in every sort of sense of the word, I find it hard to relax. So my husband and I haven't actually had a honeymoon. I left the wedding after two days to fly to Cyprus to make my new TV show that's coming out, The Honesty Box. So like, we never did the traditional tin cans on the back of the car, riding back into the sunset thing, which I really wanted. And then since then, there's just been no time. We, I made the dark, I got me job at heart. It's just been a bit of a roller coaster. So we are trying to find somewhere for a honeymoon. And his idea of like honeymoon heaven is just like me and him on a beach with

• 30:31Speaker 01

  like a cocktail and a coconut and like the sand in between my toes. And I can do that for about 45 minutes.

• 30:39Speaker 01

  It's a long flight for forty five minutes. Like, I just, I feel like once I'm, I just feel like I get so, I feel trapped and I feel stressed and I, I feel stagnant very fast. Um, I need to know, like, I need to be working, I need to be doing. And a lot of it is, I, I think a lot of it is to, I honestly feel like unless I'm busy, unless I'm proving myself, I feel like somebody else is gonna come along and do what I do would better and everyone's gonna forget about me.

• 31:13Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 31:14Speaker 01

  And I have that desperate belief. And also, I'm just really neurotic.

• 31:18Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  Like, just, yeah, and just a bit unhinged, essentially.

• 31:24Elizabeth Day?

  Where do you think that comes from? That belief that someone's going to come and make everyone forget you?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  I think, I think for an awful long time, um, when I was on, like, Geordie Shore and stuff like that, I knew from, I knew from, like, series one that I wasn't happy. It, it didn't matter to me how much of a success the show was become, wanna become, how much of a cult following it was going to have. I knew that it wasn't serving me as a person. And even in those formative years, being quite young and just really inexperienced, I knew I wasn't happy mentally there. I used to threaten to leave every series. This is it, I'm done, I'm gonna go, I'm not happy. I want a nice, normal boyfriend, I wanna buy my own house, I wanna normal, I wanted, I wanted to get away from it, you know?

• 32:16Speaker 01

  And I would be always told, whether it be by people at MTV or agents or whatever, like, don't bite the hand that feeds you. There's nothing else for you out here. You've got it good. Like, you should know where your bread's buttered. What you're gonna do outside of this. Does no one had any belief that there was anything else for me? And I say now, I was probably just surrounded by the wrong people, people who are trying to keep us small. I was benefiting them, probably, I was in. It wasn't easy for them just to collect that ten, twenty percent off my Geordie Shaw paycheck and, you know, keep me feeling little.

• 32:59Speaker 01

  And ultimately, like, I made the decision to leave series nine, as I now know.

• 33:06Speaker 01

  And it was really scary because I did it without the support of anyone, really, apart from me mum. Me mum and me pals, they absolutely really believed there would be something else for me.

• 33:16Elizabeth Day?

  The people around you at the time wanting to keep you small. Your lack of self-belief served their needs and it takes a long time to unpack that. I think it takes as long to unpack as you were in the situation.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. So somebody said to me once, like, however long you were in a relationship, it takes twice as long to get over it. And I believe it's a similar, it's a similar, like, dynamic with that. I spent so long being kept small because that's where I was useful and pliable and manageable for people.

• 33:53Elizabeth Day?

  How does this impact your wellness more generally? What, what does wellness mean to you?

• 33:59Speaker 01

  So I've always had this thing.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Wellness to me is waking up before your alarm in the morning. And I, that sounds so silly, right? But like, I know I'm firing on all cylinders and I'm well and I'm healthy and I'm ticking all the boxes when I wake up before my alarm and I go, no, I'm ready for a day.

• 34:20Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 34:21Speaker 01

  And this might be like a really ignorant, innocent, like romanticised version of health, but it's my, it's my version. Because when I'm eating everything I should and I'm nailing me jobs and I'm being kind to people and I'm going to all the right places, saying the right things, going to Pilates, you know, doing the things I need to do, I go to bed when I need to go and that horrible voice that keeps me awake at night is quieter, you know, and I, I wake up before my alarm and I'm like, right, I'm ready for a day. But when certain things are slipping and I'm neglecting my health and I'm neglecting the wellness and all the rest of it, the alarm goes off and I feel like it's the middle of the night and there must have been a mistake. Why would I set my alarm for four AM? This can't be right. And I look and it's not seven and.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  That's just not how I like to start me day with that like dialogue, that inner monologue. I like to be like, ready.

• 35:13Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  And every day, you're never gonna, it's not gonna be every day.

• 35:16Elizabeth Day?

  And do you think there are more of those days now?

• 35:19Speaker 01

  The good days or the bad days?

• 35:20Elizabeth Day?

  The good days.

• 35:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, ultimately, honestly, mate, like I, for, I got to the point when I was younger and I couldn't even look at myself in the mirror. Because I hated who I was becoming, but now, no, like, I'm surrounded by great people. I nurture those relationships, I'm thoughtful, I walk the dogs, I get fresh air, I eat what's right and. Got a lovely partner, great family, I know I am moving more and more towards being the person that I wanna be.

• 35:52Elizabeth Day?

  Hmm.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  So yeah, sleep does come easier and ultimately waking up is easier. There's still some slip ups here and there, I've had a Red Bull too late or, you know, potentially haven't been. Perfect way I should have been to a colleague or whatever, do you know what I mean? But ultimately, no, I'm, I'm definitely, I'm definitely finding w- wellness, I'm on the right track.

• 36:15Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, and I love that you include kindness in your wellness map. That idea that if you're not being as kind as you would have wanted to be on a perfect day, quote unquote. Then that is a signal maybe that you need to take more care of yourself.

• 36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like, it's, I don't know, I think you can tell when a person is well and happy. You can just tell because they are patient and nice. And, and don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about all the time we all have down days. We've all got so much that we're dealing with in, in this day and age, especially women. That I'm not suggesting for one single second that we're all fucking perfect all the time, because I'm not. But you know, when you just know someone's.

• 36:59Speaker 01

  Gone to Pilates or somebody's done sunrise yoga or somebody's had their green juice or somebody's like done their HIIT class or had the walk with the dog and you know, because it's in the way they treat people.

• 37:10Elizabeth Day?

  And it's in the way they treat themselves. And I wonder if for you, it's almost like for many years, maybe you didn't think you were worth taking care of in this way. And you're getting to the point gradually where on some days you do feel you're worth taking care of. And that will just get more and more, Ricky. Like it will get more and more as you understand that you are fundamentally lovable, exactly as you are.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I really hope that. I think it's all, um, I think it's definitely how you treat yourself. Sorry.

• 37:47Elizabeth Day?

  Don't ever apologise for showing beautiful emotion, honestly.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Tried so hard to hold them in, but sadly I leak. Um. It is like how you treat yourself is all wrapped up in how you see yourself. It's your self-worth, isn't it? And, um. I think for me, that is the final puzzle piece that's missing. The last bit is how I see myself.

• 38:09Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  And, um, it's just gonna take time, mate.

• 38:13Elizabeth Day?

  Well, you are amazing. This is the first time we've met, but.

• 38:17Speaker 01

  Doesn't feel like that.

• 38:18Elizabeth Day?

  It doesn't feel like that at all. And your final failure is your failure to be private. And this pertains specifically to the fact that you grew up essentially on a reality TV programme. And as you put it to me, I have had to work twice as hard to prove myself.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:38Speaker 01

  So like, you know, when you're in your early twenties and stuff and your teens and things like that, like you're just trying to work out who you are. In fact, your whole twenties is that a complete decade of self-exploration and growth and, you know, for the best part, none of us have got the tools to navigate it. It's all about trial and error. There's absolutely no rulebook. But I think it's when you're, uh, it's when habits are formed. It's, it's when you learn about yourself. It's, it's when you, you make routines and things. And, um, subsequently, most of my formative years, those years were played out in front of millions.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  And now, as an adult, I have a real warped opinion of what is appropriate to share.

• 39:32Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  Like, I remember speaking so desperate to leave reality TV in its most traditional sense, you know, and saying to me team, I just want to be a TV presenter, I want to be a broadcaster. I want the only thing that people know about me to be like, what colour dress I had on that day, or how I did at me job. Don't want them to know everything about me personal life anymore. Because when you give so much of yourself like that, people do feel like they know you. And they feel like they've got every right to judge you this way to Sunday. And that is quite exhausting emotionally to have to explain yourself to millions of people all the time. When you're just trying to figure it out yourself when you're just a kid.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  So I remember saying that and them being like, yep, this is the journey for you. This is what we're gonna do. We're gonna take you away from reality TV. We're gonna, you know, we're just gonna rebrand. And I wanted that. I wanted it so much. And actually, I just found a way to fucking overshare myself anyway. I just went on social media and was like, I'm over today, or got me period today, or got to be like shit today, or I'm so angry, or this, or that. And this, you know, this juggernaut that is social media sort of was rising as I was making this decision to dip out of reality TV.

• 40:57Speaker 01

  And it just replaced that in me life for giving everybody this huge access to me. And I think because that's how I lived me early twenties, I don't really know how to be anything else. Other than a habitual oversharer. But I've got to the point where I've shared so much, like, I just don't know where that line is.

• 41:18Elizabeth Day?

  Do you think that you struggle confusing privacy with secrecy? So the idea that you might want to keep something to yourself, is there part of you that feels like, oh, that would be dishonest, though. If I didn't share it, that would be dishonest. I wouldn't be being authentic.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  I've made me living on being a transparent person.

• 41:38Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Being this nice, normal lass who's just managed to get somewhere and is really proud of that. And I know I wouldn't be here.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  I know I wouldn't be here if people hadn't voted for us to win the jungle.

• 41:54Elizabeth Day?

  Oh.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  People didn't buy me books and follow us on Instagram and invest in me. And subsequently, I feel like I owe people so much.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  And so I give so much.

• 42:08Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  I give everything like I've got, I really do. And um, I always say like, whenever I'm out and people go, oh, does it bother you when people ask for pictures? And I'm like, are you fucking joking me? Do they bother us when someone comes up and recognizes me? No, it's the biggest honour in me life. Because the minute people stop asking for pictures or the minute people stop going, oh, you're that bird from X, Y and Z, I'll be back at me call centre. And I did, I was very bad. I was not good at that job. Like, I was rubbish. I was trying to sell Sky and I couldn't. I was crap. I feel beholden.

• 42:45Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 01

  To the people who've put me here. And I feel this real sense of responsibility to continue to share everything, the highs and the lows of me life.

• 42:56Elizabeth Day?

  Yeah.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  So that be getting married to Erkan, this love of me life that I waited fifteen years to find. Go on, let's lash it on the telly. Because

• 43:08Speaker 01

  people who were there for me when I had me heartbroken and talked me through how they had their heartbroken deserve to know that there can be light at the end of the tunnel, like I found.

• 43:17Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  That's what I think. And like, whether it's me PMDD, me periods, me hangovers, me gym sessions, me dogs, whatever, I just think everybody is, is, deserves to know because they're invested in us. But it is exhausting. And I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. Am I boring people with me life?

• 43:38Elizabeth Day?

  No.

• 43:39Speaker 01

  Do what, should I be keeping some of our back? I don't know anymore.

• 43:41Elizabeth Day?

  It's such an interesting question. It's such an interesting question and really fascinating hearing you talk about it as someone who is in the belly of the beast. And I want you to know that. I don't think you need to feel beholden to us. We are so invested in you and want to see you thrive. And you can keep on sharing, but you don't have to share immediately. I think that would be, if it ever feels exhausting, you could always take some time and be like, let me work out how I feel about this thing. And then I'll post about it. And that can be so powerful because it comes from this position of wisdom.

• 44:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think as I've got a bit older, I am getting a bit better. Like, I used to be so impulsive. It used to be like, this has just happened to me right now. So obviously, I need to share it with everybody.

• 44:31Elizabeth Day?

  Yes.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Because that's what I'd grown up doing. And I am getting slightly better. I think my PMDD, it makes us quite introspective. And I don't know if what I'm feeling is rational all the time. So I sit on, I try and sit on my feelings a little bit before I share. The lines are still blurred for us, mate.

• 44:51Elizabeth Day?

  So PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder. And I had never heard of it until you started talking about it. And then a contestant on Married at First Sight started talking about it.

• 45:03Speaker 01

  She did. Christina. Love Christina.

• 45:05Elizabeth Day?

  Yes, we love her.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  Gorgeous little bunny.

• 45:07Elizabeth Day?

  And it is like a very, very aggressive form of, will you explain what it is?

• 45:12Speaker 01

  No, you're hitting the nail on the head. Honestly, so PMDD, premenstrual dysphoric disorder, is essentially often described as an aggressive form of PMS. The best way I ever heard it described, and something that has stayed with me, is like, imagine building a sandcastle of good habits. You eat healthy, you nurture your relationships, you practise self-care. And then, once a month, a wave comes along, and it completely destroys your castle. And in place of all these good habits, and it just is utter destruction and despair.

• 45:54Speaker 01

  For some people, it manifests itself as anxiety and insomnia and exhaustion and crippling self doubt. In extreme cases,

• 46:07Speaker 01

  you have such dark thoughts, you're suicidal, right? And every month I have to watch this like quite strong, quite confident, ambitious woman turn into a terrified little girl who doesn't want to post on social media, who doesn't want to go outside, who can barely articulate yourself. I

• 46:32Speaker 01

  I lose all sense of myself and it's like a terrifying place to be because in some of the darkest moments, I genuinely believe the world would be a better place without us in it. And I have to fight that. I have to fight that feeling and reiterate that it's just temporary and you've been here before and you know this isn't you and you're going to be okay. But

• 47:00Speaker 01

  it's killing women. For five years, I went back and forth to the doctor, mate, telling them, you know, I don't think I'm well.

• 47:13Speaker 01

  Something happens to me, seven to 10 days before me period, and I'm unrecognisable. I don't know what I'm capable of, you know? And it was from a real place of despair and fear that I went to speak to somebody. I got told, have you tried losing weight? Which of course, when you get told by a medical professional, you go away and do.

• 47:37Speaker 01

  So I lost weight. I think maybe this time you came off your birth control. You've been on it a long time. So I came off my birth control.

• 47:44Speaker 01

  That didn't help. Do you know that periods just get worse as you get older? Do you know that every other woman is going through what you're going through and they're managing to be okay? Are these mostly male doctors by any chance? Yes, absolutely. And like, let's not make a sweeping generalisation. I think fair is fair. There was definitely some women who marginalised how I was feeling, who dismissed me feelings and made me feel ashamed, you know, but ultimately it was men. And that is because there is a huge bias within medicine. Medical misogyny is rampant. And I just, like so many other women, absorbed it, shouldered it for years, believed I was the problem, believed I was weak.

• 48:27Speaker 01

  And I couldn't cope with periods like all of them could. And you know, it was only Elizabeth through going on social media. And this is why I have that complicated relationship with me privacy. Because if I hadn't gone on there and gone, I am really struggling. A woman reached out in their droves, mate, and they said, um, Vicky, this isn't normal. Regardless of what doctors are saying to you, it sounds to me that you've got PMDD. So I went away and I researched it myself. I kept a feelings journal.

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Which honestly, as a girl from Wall's End, is not so. I thought I was gonna. The least jolly thing you've ever heard. I went to see a doctor, I went private in the end, which again irks me so much because I love the NHS, but they're just so. Oh, they're just so stretched. So anyway, so I went and I sat there all guns blazing, ready to have like a row about it. And just be dismissed again. And I eventually got through my spiel, which must have been so muddled and just emotional. Anyway, she just went, take a breath. She says, it sounds to me like you've got PMDD. And I just burst into tears. Honestly, mate, I felt for the first time in my life. Like, at least for the last 10 years, I felt seen, I felt liberated. Yes.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  I felt like I wasn't just descending into madness. Yes. And it's just so much more common than you think. And is there treatment for it? It's frustratingly enough, it's not a one size fits all pill. Um, it's kind of, you have to work out what works for you. And there's loads of different routes you can take. A lot of the time. A lot of the time it is antidepressants for a certain period of the month. Personally, I'm reluctant to do that. I'm not depressed. I have PMDD, it's very different and you should be able to treat that rather than treat me as if I'm a depressed person. And birth control works for some people, cognitive therapy works for others, supplements.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  I'm still not where I'd like to be. The thought of being a mother

• 50:31Speaker 01

  as I am now is again a terrifying reality I'm facing. Has Erkin been helpful?

• 50:40Speaker 01

  Yes and no. Yeah. Because he's a man and I hate to again make a sweeping generalisation, but they don't understand. Yeah. They don't understand and they can't possibly hope to be empathetic. They can be sympathetic, sympathetic. But it's taken, so same, I think it's maybe three, four years ago I got my diagnosis, it's three. And we've both had to learn to live with this. Because it absolutely kills me that for a quarter of our life I am not the person that he fell in love with and not the person that he thought he was marrying. Because that is, that is the reality. I'm not myself. I'm not recognisable at all.

• 51:25Speaker 01

  I could be screaming one second and sobbing the next, then completely disassociating, unable to be social,

• 51:34Speaker 01

  lost, afraid, whatever it is, however it's manifesting itself that week, you know. He's had to, he's had to learn to love that version of me as well and that is really difficult.

• 51:47Speaker 01

  And that is not something I would ask of my worst enemy, let alone the man I love more than anything else in the world, you know. It is a true testament to him and his character that he's learned to understand it because not every man does. I found the one thing that helps is communication. So saying to him, we have a little, I gotta say, it's coming into PIMD week. He goes, oh no, PIMD. PIMD and I say, yeah, PIMD and he goes, that's okay, like we'll just take it. So. And he knows that some days I will have to come in from work and just go straight to bed. And I can't even speak to him because I'm so done in from pretending to be the person that I am normally. With other people that I've got nothing left to give him or the dogs.

• 52:31Speaker 01

  He is so understanding considering. So I think what I'm trying to say is if any women are listening and they've got PMDD or they think they've got PMDD and the husband or partner just can't understand it, please don't think that makes him a bad person or it makes him fundamentally not the right person for you. Don't go down a rabbit hole with it.

• 52:52Speaker 01

  They're not, they're not made to understand initially. You have to help them with it. You have to help each other.

• 52:58Elizabeth Day?

  And I think the very fact that you have found the words to communicate something so difficult within your partnership is such an amazing foundation for a future relationship. Communication is totally key. So the fact that you can navigate this very, very challenging thing for me just makes you as a unit stronger. So I want to commend you for that.

• 53:21Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 53:22Elizabeth Day?

  Final question. If you could still have done Geordie Shaw and be where you are and who you are, but you could erase all of the tapes in existence and it would never be seen by anyone again, would you do it?

• 53:36Speaker 01

  Oh, I don't know.

• 53:41Speaker 01

  No, because that's a coward's, it's cowardly. You don't become old and wise if you haven't been young and daft. I would not be on the trajectory I'm on now, Elizabeth, you know, to be in somebody who

• 53:55Speaker 01

  is worthy of the things I want. If I hadn't had certain things happen to me and if I hadn't been a specific type of person, if I hadn't done some stuff to myself, oh, let's hold my hands up, a bit of accountability. I was my own worst enemy, sabotaged myself all the time. And I'm constantly reminded of who I used to be. And that pushes me forward, stops me doing those things because I don't want to be that person again. And maybe as if those tapes weren't out there and I didn't get the odd comment from people still being, you are just the slag off the telly. I wouldn't be so committed to being better.

• 54:35Elizabeth Day?

  Oh, that's made me, that's made me cry. What an amazing note to end on. You can't be old and wise unless you were young and daft.

• 54:43Speaker 01

  We've all got past me and we just need to own it unapologetically and use it as fuel to go forward.

• 54:52Elizabeth Day?

  Vicky Patterson, I can't wait to see what you do next. You are such a powerful and worthy woman. Thank you so much for coming on How To Fail.

• 54:59Speaker 01

  Thank you so much for having us. I hope everyone's not sick of seeing me cry like a big fella.

• 55:03Elizabeth Day?

  I'm not going to get up and give you another big hug.

• 55:08Elizabeth Day?

  This episode has been brought to you by Aala Lacto Free, delicious dairy with all the taste, none of the lactose. Please do follow How To Fail to get new episodes as they land on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Please tell all your friends. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. Thank you so much for listening.