Devale Ellis From the NFL to Acting and entertainment, the former football star shares how his Plan B fueled his Plan A, how developed a tight bond with Tyler Perry that helped lead him, talks his marriage and strength in being a father to boys. ,

Growing up in Brooklyn in the 80s and 90s, kids did not have many role models in the media industry to admire, so sports became the main outlet and focus for Devale Ellis, who followed this path with football always being his plan B while acting and entertaining were his real dreams, Devale used the game of football to teach him about being a better man, better teammate and better person because The football player turned actor and Internet personality, joined Ryan, Channing and Fred to share an inside look into his journey through the ups and downs, beating underdog odds and eventually landing him on the big screen while amassing a large social media fanbase. Walking on to Division I football, making the team, being undrafted and making a NFL roster are rare instances but for Devale, it's just about outworking the next person and being the 1% of the 1% which is why becoming a star actor and YouTube phenom was never out of a reach with dedication and effort. Before making it to the NFL playing with the Detroit Lions and Cleveland Browns, Ellis was a wideout alongside Marques Colston at Hofstra University. Having played basketball most of his life, Devale relied on his athleticism to perform at the college level, but he tells the guys about how his dream for a scholarship led to him wanting real money at the professional level. Starting his NFL career in Detroit, Devale's motivation to outwork people landed him a roster spot but as he peels back the layers of his experience, revealing his struggles mentally and emotionally, he opens up to the guys on how his addiction to painkillers began, turning to pills to try and mask his insecurities and frustrations with football. With his passion fading for the game, his Plan B quickly became his Plan A as he transitioned from the NFL to Hollywood, becoming an actor and entertainer. Today, Devale s best known as a family man who's a star on Tyler Perry’s Sistas show amongst other projects while creating a platform with his wife Khadeen that has become a hit. His social media framework is filled with a lot of positive messages while sharing daily experiences to allow people a peek into his life and the lessons along the way. Sharing with the guys how instrumental Tyler Perry has been in his career and as a mentor in life trying to navigate each day. Perry has helped him continue to grow with opportunity and fame, but Devale explains the importance of always supporting his people while taking the characters he plays on tv to set an example that there is always hope for a different outcome. While Devale posts lots of moments with his family online, he says the 1 min he shares out of the 1,440 minutes in a day is such a small representation of his life and who he is which is important to him to keep some aspects close to his heart. He stresses the importance of open communication between him and his wife as well as with their sons, allowing them to experience life as it happens and tackle tough topics straight on whether it be racism, bullying, work ethic or debunking false perceptions of black culture, Devale prides himself in setting an example by sharing life experiences and showing the world, even people who hit obstacles have a way of achieving their dreams. Life never works out quite as we planned or imagined, but sometimes it can work out even better and Devale has embraced the better and all the growth that has come with each success and even the failed opportunities too. As a father to young boys, Devale emphasizes how everything is centered around emotional maturity, having a strong family and the means to get by each day. Devale is honest about the paths he's walked, mistakes he's made and how each part of his journey has shaped him into the man, husband and father he is today. New episodes drop on Tuesdays at 12 p.m. ET and Fridays at 3:30 p.m ET Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Channing Crowder?

  What up, dawg? Gentlemen. The best husband in the world.

• 0:35Channing Crowder?

  I'm tired, man. Appreciate you, brother.

• 0:37Ryan Clark?

  What up, my boy? What's happening with you?

• 0:39Speaker 03

  It's good.

• 0:39Ryan Clark?

  Chilling, chilling, chilling.

• 0:41Speaker 03

  Respect it, dawg. You got it. Respect to y'all. Love it, man.

• 0:43Ryan Clark?

  Take a seat, man.

• 0:44Speaker 03

  And you nominated, yo. That's a big deal, yo.

• 0:47Ryan Clark?

  Man, appreciate it.

• 0:48Speaker 03

  That's a big deal.

• 0:49Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Chan, I would've split him.

• 0:52Speaker 03

  You crazy. Oh, 170? You crazy.

• 0:55Ryan Clark?

  Aw, yeah.

• 0:56Speaker 03

  You crazy. 170, Chan? You wouldn't even seen me. The ball.

• 1:02Ryan Clark?

  He was out the gate.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Okay, Jamie Foxx. He like, he Jamie Foxx now, anything you said, dude. You would've been... Where'd he go? What's with my bag, coach? Keep your head up, Ryan. Keep your head up.

• 1:13Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, man. You see what it is now?

• 1:15Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:16Channing Crowder?

  College stats was stupid. College stats was stupid.

• 1:18Ryan Clark?

  Who was this, like, him, Willie Cologne?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  Marcus Coaster.

• 1:21Ryan Clark?

  Marcus Coaster.

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Gave y'all the business. You know I was the number one guy at Hofstra, right? It wasn't Marcus.

• 1:27Ryan Clark?

  No, you told him that you was gonna take his job. You ain't never take that man's job.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  So I did. Ask him what happened when he was out, his junior year. I let a team receive me yards, catches, touchdowns.

• 1:37Ryan Clark?

  What, I say IAA? You know all of it, right?

• 1:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, all of it.

• 1:41Ryan Clark?

  He said, "Ask him what happened when Marcus Coaster was out."

• 1:43Speaker 03

  And ask him when he came back a senior year.

• 1:44Ryan Clark?

  That's like saying, "What happened when Zach Taylor was gone."

• 1:47Speaker 03

  You right, you right. That's a good point. Ask him what happened when he came back a senior year.

• 1:51Ryan Clark?

  I'm talking about damn coaches.

• 1:54Ryan Clark?

  Zach Thomas. When Zach Thomas was gone.

• 1:56Channing Crowder?

  When Zach Thomas was gone. When Zach Thomas left, I let a team in tackle.

• 1:59Ryan Clark?

  Because Zach Thomas was gone.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  Because you was the man the whole time. See what I'm saying? You know the light skins gotta stick together.

• 2:05Ryan Clark?

  Well, I got you, bro. You are not light skin.

• 2:09Speaker 03

  I just came back from Jamaica. I'm a little tan.

• 2:10Ryan Clark?

  He's not light skin? Well, you wanna be light skin? Why do y'all hate on us so bad? This man came on the show and attempted to be light skin.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Bro, he really is red. Why? He do this all the time? He does it to receivers. I know. I do one-on-ones right now.

• 2:25Ryan Clark?

  They try to claim.

• 2:29Channing Crowder?

  I don't care. They trying to claim all of us, brothers. We gotta stay together.

• 2:32Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? I just came back from Jamaica. I'm a little tan, but...

• 2:35Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, that's rich people conversation. But go to Jamaica? Just came back from Jamaica, yeah. Yeah, he rich.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  I turned 40, I'm not rich. My wife paid for it.

• 2:42Fred Taylor?

  Did you, um, you already had a relationship with Usain? That's how your son met him, right?

• 2:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, um, well, it was wild to me because he followed us on social media. His wife watches the show, of course. So I'm on my social media one day and I get a DM from Usain Bolt. And I'm like, this ain't no real Usain. Oh shit, it's Usain Bolt. Then we just started chopping it up. And then from there, you know, my wife is Jamaican, so it became a thing. So they be, we became close, family started talking. And I was like, you know, my kids like love you to death. And he was like, when you back in Kingston next time, come through. And he followed through. We hit him up and he just showed up like, yo, I'm here. Imagine the most famous person on the island comes to where you are. Like when I tell you, I was like, I can't believe this. Cause in Jamaica, it's Bob Marley, Usain Bolt.

• 3:29Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  Like that's those two. So came to check us. It was a good feeling. And my kids, you saw the video.

• 3:34Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 3:35Speaker 03

  They didn't say nothing the whole time. The whole rest of the day, they were just like this. I felt like the best dad in the world that day.

• 3:41Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Ryan Clark?

  Well, man, welcome to the show, bro. I think, um...

• 4:09Speaker 03

  Nah, thanks.

• 4:09Ryan Clark?

  You know, me and you been communicating about getting it done. So I'm excited to do it. This is Freddie T., this is Chan, I'm RC, Devale Ellis, sitting down with the Pivot. Hopster's finest. Let me, let me put that out there for you guys. Marcus Colston was in a coma or something and he led the team.

• 4:28Speaker 03

  No, no, no. Don't do that. Marcus is my guy. Don't, don't do that. And if, if I was picking somebody, I'm picking Marcus before me too. Like Marcus was my guy.

• 4:36Ryan Clark?

  I mean, honestly though, I'm from New Orleans. Saints legend, truly.

• 4:39Speaker 03

  So you know what it is.

• 4:40Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, what he was, what he was able to do down there. You get drafted late and become what he became. I think you gonna have to start talking about him as one of the greats in the entire organization. So nah, you absolutely right. I got something for you. I want to ask you a question. Hold on. I very rarely read off of my phone, but I'm gonna do this. I want to, tell me your first thought when I read this to you. Trips right, motion, slant right, 525, F post swing. When you hear those words, I'm obviously not Ja Kitna. When you hear those words, man, what are your first thought?

• 5:13Speaker 03

  Oh, man, my first thoughts is, shit, get out to the right, get lined up real quick. Look at that end man on the line of scrimmage. Count how many defensive line men they are. Know if I'm hot. See if they rotating. If that safety comes down, I got a slant. It's the first thing that comes to my mind.

• 5:29Ryan Clark?

  When you get your opportunity, your agent makes the call to Martin Mayhew and he says, "I believe I got one." And, you know, you have an opportunity to show the Detroit Lions that a kid from a small school, from Brooklyn, can do this. What were those first moments like for you? Where you came in with the feeling, "I could do this," but now you have to show them, and that's one of the calls you hear in the huddle?

• 5:59Speaker 03

  It's my time. Like, you all played. You can't have no doubt. Like, I just knew I was the best football player. And I was a basketball player. I never played football my whole life. Started playing football my junior year. And I was just like, I can jump high, I can run fast, I'm a smart guy. Let me make some people miss. And I just was challenged my whole career. High school, I had 26 catches for 831 yards, 15 touchdowns. Every time I touched the ball, it was a touchdown. So I was like, yo, just give me the ball, let me do what I do. But I gotta walk on to Hofstra? Like, no disrespect to Hofstra, but you Hofstra. And you making me walk on, like, you know what I'm saying? So, this was my attitude. That spring going into my senior year, I didn't do anything high school related.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  I drove from Brooklyn to Long Island every day to do spring ball, which you're not supposed to. And I was just like, yo, tell whoever y'all gave them scholarships to, there was two guys that got scholarships. Brian Crummel and Joe Slappy. Said, "Tell them to come when I come." Let's go do workouts. We did 110s, I won everyone. We did the bench press, I out-benched them. Vertical, everything. We did one-on-ones, beat them in everything. So I was like, yo, this is, no disrespect to anybody, but basketball seemed like it was more difficult to me. Football didn't seem hard at the time. You know, you a young kid. Then I get to Hofstra and I meet Marcus Colston.

• 7:19Speaker 03

  No, no bullshit. Dude walked in like, like God. He was 6'4", 230 at the time. Had his shirt cut here, abbed up. As fast as I was, he was like right on my hip. So I'm like, gotta beat this dragon. I go out there, break some records, get to Detroit. They got Roy Williams, Mike Williams, and Charles Rogers. Three first-rounders, three early picks. Three early first-rounders. All beasts, bro. And I was like, just gotta do it again. So I was like, let's go in there. Let's get this free agent tryout going on. I'm leaving here with a scholarship. I'm leaving here with a contract. And that's what I did.

• 7:56Ryan Clark?

  Why ain't you go basketball then if you was real?

• 7:59Speaker 03

  Because I was only 5'10" and if I'm being honest, I didn't even want to play professional sports. That's, to be honest, that's why I love y'all so much. Because y'all are an example of what I always wanted to do. I wanted to be in entertainment. It was a means to an end for me. So it was like, yo, I'm playing basketball. I always wanted to act. But I grew up in Brooklyn in the 90s. Who, who you know in TV in 90s in Brooklyn? Nobody. And if you in any arts, you were considered soft or gay. And in the 90s, being from Brooklyn, it was just like, I'm not trying to do that. So let me go play sports. So, playing sports just to get a means to an end. And then, once football gave me a greater opportunity, because I saw myself like 5'10", 150, this basketball thing not working. You know what I'm saying?

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Like, I'm looking at all these trees, like, I'm like, nah, I'll play football. So that's, that's what it was.

• 8:48Fred Taylor?

  Everybody you meet that's from Brooklyn, they got an extreme, like, an extreme sense of pride. And I hear you after, you know, seeing you do your thing, seeing you on the show, following, following your social. Would you credit that to the, the person who you are today and everything that you've accomplished?

• 9:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely. I was a latchkey kid. I had to get on mass transportation from the time I was 10. Imagine you 10 in Brooklyn, coming off the crack epidemic. Everything is going on in your neighborhood and your parents both working. I grew up with both my mom and dad, but they both working. Get on the bus. Go to choir rehearsal. Get on the bus. Go to your aunt's house. So, you gotta deal with stuff. Like, you gotta deal with people. You gotta deal with adults. Like, I learned how to navigate the world because I was always, like, aware. So, Brooklyn made me who I am.

• 9:35Ryan Clark?

  You talked about crack epidemic and the different things, especially when you look at the 90s, but...

• 9:43Ryan Clark?

  You would think some of those adversities, some of those experiences hardened you from falling into some traps, from falling into some mistakes, from, and helped you be stronger than addiction, but that wasn't the truth for you. You know, you get injured, obviously you have a surgery, or you're not, you're feeling the pain, you're trying to play, you're gonna take Tylenol, you're gonna take painkillers, and you get addicted to pain pills. What was that time like for you, and what sort of forced you into feeling like that was something you needed to do?

• 10:14Speaker 03

  2002, you was a free agent, went to the Giants. You know what it's like, no disrespect, you 70th pick, third round pick, you third round, top 10 pick, first round. Y'all don't know what it's like to walk into a locker room, and everybody's telling you that you don't belong there, and you're not gonna stick. Like, when I first got to Detroit, people didn't even like, talk to me like that. I was a tryout guy, too, like, look at the little guy. Roy Williams, Mike Williams, Calvin Johnson, Mike Furry comes over, Eddie Drummond's a Pro Bowl returner, that's five right there, they only keep five. Scotty Vons was coming back, Glenn Martinez had made the team last year as a free agent.

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Nobody's paying attention, so I'm like, what can I do to, you know what I'm saying, make the team? So, special teams, but I'm only 5'10", 175. They put me at R5 on kickoff, cuz I was the fastest guy on the team. I raced everybody. It started with my attitude, I got in there talking shit to everybody. Dre Blah, me and Dre Blah got into a fight in OTAs. We don't got no pads on, I'm out there, scat right 525 at post swing, they bring the blitz, ah, catch it. I catch that ball and run that shit all the way to the end zone. Dre Blah like, yo, yo, yo, let me tell you something, this ain't Hofstra, you ain't walking on, cut that shit out. Like, niggas ain't here trying to...

• 11:38Speaker 03

  And I'm like, fuck you, you got money, nigga, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, say, what you mean fuck you? Like, so I'm like, nigga, fuck you, you want me to run hard? I'ma keep, I'ma pay me then. So, all the vets were just like, I like him a little bit. Defense ain't like that, y'all know, you know what I'm saying? So, no pads on, catch a hitch, turn outside, Dre grab my jersey, I run to the end zone. Next time, he get on the line of scrimmage, we, boom, we in there, fighting. And after that, Dre was like my older brother.

• 12:11Speaker 03

  Like, like, like my older brother, like, Cam was like, yo, we need that, like, we need that. And he kind of like mentored me and told me, like, he fought me, we fought, but then after he's like, yo, don't ever stop. If you want to make this football team, don't stop doing it.

• 12:26Ryan Clark?

  How does that connect to the painkillers?

• 12:30Speaker 03

  Because if that's what I gotta go through and I gotta, look at how big Channing is. I gotta run down the middle of the field, I gotta bust the wedge, there's no wedge no more. So I gotta bust the wedge. But now I got shoulder issues, I got knee issues, and I'm like, fuck, I can't not do it in practice. Because if I don't do it in practice, I'm not getting an opportunity. Started to develop heel spurs because I'm trying to stop right before I get to the wedge. So I gotta run with bad heels. So I'm just taking pain meds to numb it. So I'm like, I'm gonna numb it just to get through practice. And then I end up making a roster. And I'm like, fuck, it's three first-round draft picks and I made the roster. I can't slow down. I gotta keep going. So I keep taking pain meds, like, just, and not even like to be high, but I'm taking the pain meds so that I don't feel nothing.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  I'm gonna run through and bust this wedge. For me, the difference was practice squad, 3,000 a week, or 16,000 active roster, busting a wedge. Gotta do it. Gotta bust the wedge, like, no choice.

• 13:28Ryan Clark?

  How'd you come out of that? How did you wean yourself off of?

• 13:31Speaker 03

  So the truth of the matter is, um, it wasn't me. End of the season, I had wild depression. Um, when you go through that whole season, you make the team, you make money, everybody assumes that everything is gonna be fine. But it's not. Like, that whole rookie season, it, it's a lot for me to talk to. I don't talk about this often. I don't. But, uh, that whole rookie season, there was a lot going on in my family too. Like, family was going through financial issues. My pops needed help, I had to help my brother with stuff. So you making money, but it seemed like everywhere, somebody just coming, like, I need this, I want that, you know? My girlfriend at the time, she's about to graduate from school, we was not vibing. Like, first time we away, come back home.

• 14:16Speaker 03

  You're 22 years old, got money. Got money, there's nothing for you to do. Drinking, I don't got pain meds. Cause you know, when you go from the league, I can go in a room and be like, yo, I need two Vicodin. And they give you two Vicodin. But now I'm back home and I don't got access to that. So I'm trying to numb the pain because I'm just used to taking something. So I'm just drinking all day. And then one day I woke up and I was in a cold sweat in the bed. I think it was withdrawals from not having the pain meds. Cause during my rookie season, I was taking four Tylenol to wake up in the morning, four Tylenol before practice, four Tylenol after practice, and then two Vicodin. And I did that every day for like the last two and a half months of the season. I think my body just came used to it. I went from 175 to 158.

• 15:01Speaker 03

  And my body was like going through stuff. She woke me up and she was just like, yo, like you gotta fix this. Like, I don't know what happened to you, but it's not good. My receiver coach from college called me and was just like, your girl called me, what's up? And he literally just did what men do to men. Fix it. He said, fix it. Don't, don't give me no excuses. I don't want to hear about your depression. He said, you in the NFL, you are living a dream that everybody wants to have. And you here feeling sorry for yourself. You got an opportunity to fix it, fix it. So I just cut it, cold turkey. Since then, I don't take no pain meds. Only thing I'll take is an antibiotic. If I get my tooth pulled or I have surgery, I don't even take a Tylenol or Advil. I just deal with it.

• 15:44Speaker 03

  Cause I just, I wean myself off it by just cold turkey.

• 15:47Channing Crowder?

  But was it, was it physical or mental? Cause it's, it sounds, to me, it sounds like, like, you know, you got on it, but then it sounds like it was more psychological than the heel spurs or the, you know, whatever the injury.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  So y'all, y'all all played?

• 16:01Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 16:01Speaker 03

  It come to a point where you just don't like being around, like, imagine you defeat three first round draft picks to get an opportunity. Then you hear Detroit Lions looking to draft Calvin Johnson. It's like,

• 16:12Speaker 03

  Like, I had dealt with Marcus. Then Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, Mike Williams. I finally get an opportunity. Now y'all gonna draft Calvin Johnson? Megatron. Megatron, bro? I didn't wanna see football. I didn't wanna hear football. Everybody wanted to talk football. And to be honest, I never wanted to play football. Remember, I was a basketball player that wanted to be an entertainer. But now I gotta, I gotta make money to provide for my family. So the alcohol was a way for me to just drown out the noise at that point. It wasn't even pain. It was mental, like, I don't wanna hear from nobody.

• 16:45Channing Crowder?

  Yes, a follow-up, man. That sounds crazy because people that make it, even make it to that level, like you saying, make it to a practice squad. Football was, football was my out. Football was your out. Football was your out of Bill Glaze. Like, you, for you to say, you said a couple times, I didn't even wanna play football.

• 17:01Speaker 03

  No.

• 17:02Channing Crowder?

  But what happened, just, you were just real fast and could catch?

• 17:06Speaker 03

  I was fast. I was just fast and can catch, man. I, I was, the first time I ever dunked a basketball, I was in eighth grade. I was only 5'7". So I was super athletic. So I just knew that I had to use my athleticism to get me out of my situation. I had a plan since I was 16. I said, I'm gonna use my athleticism to get a scholarship. If I can play professionally for a year or two by a brownstone in Brooklyn, live downstairs in a basement, run out the upstairs two floors, I don't have to be a starving artist. I just never wanted to be a broke artist. So football was just my plan. Like, let me make a practice squad. But then you get there, and y'all know too, like, even though y'all was draft picks, you know, you see people in locker room, you like, you was drafted? You ain't even that nice. You know what I'm saying?

• 17:49Speaker 03

  Like, you not, and, and not even that nice, it's like, you not even putting in the necessary work to develop your skills. Cause when you get to the NFL, the worst person on the roster is the nicest person ever played football in they town. But when you get there, a lot of people, you know, I'm here already, I'm chilling. Oh, so you drinking, you missing workouts, you late to meetings, I could take your job. So once I got there and I saw the behaviors of some of the people in my position room, I was like, ah, you don't really want it bad enough. So I was just like, let me just get it. So then I'm going from making a hundred K a year to two seventy-five, then three sixty. I'm like, I'm gonna ride this out until I can't ride it out no more. And that's, that's really all it was. Make the money, start businesses, and move on.

• 18:30Fred Taylor?

  I gotta ask, the NFL was involved in probably the biggest class action lawsuit in the history of the, of the game. And a lot of it's because of the concussions.

• 18:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 18:40Fred Taylor?

  Because of the bike it in and tore it all and all that different stuff. That eventually has led to a lot of guys, post-career, going through a whole lot of stuff. Whether it's, you know, anxiety, depression, uh, memory loss, you know, all that stuff that we hear about. Was there ever a moment that you were fearful that these things can happen to you? Because we see the show and we see all of the happiness and the family and the love and that stuff on the outside.

• 19:08Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:08Fred Taylor?

  We don't always know exactly what's underneath. How is, how is life like, really?

• 19:16Speaker 03

  See, when you, this is shit I don't talk about. This is why RC told you I called him to be here, because I wanted to talk about this. Two thousand nine, I get a chance to be on the Browns. No, the whole season, two thousand eight, I got cut. This is during the recession. I lost a shit ton of money. So I make all this money the first three seasons. I'm the guy on Detroit, you know? They fire Mike Martz. Mike Martz likes smaller receivers. Kippy Brown comes in, he liked bigger receivers. That mean I'm out. You know, it's just a change in, you know, change in the guard. So I'm out, I'm at home, but at the same time I'm out, the recession hits in two thousand eight. So all the money I had saved from trying to be fiscally responsible, I lost in the stock market and I lost in the housing market.

• 20:01Speaker 03

  Because you know what they tell you when you get in the NFL? Buy property, get invested. And that's what I did. Like, I didn't buy jewelry, I didn't... Chad Johnson, bro, real talk, I was the same way. I bought fake products, I bought fake clothes. I said, "I'm in the NFL." People gonna think I'm rich anyway.

• 20:18Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 20:18Speaker 03

  So I was really saving my money to make sure that I can make the transition. I get cut, the recession happens, I lose a lot of money. So I'm like, "Fuck, I gotta play, I gotta keep playing, I gotta make, get my money back." So I get to Cleveland, and Romeo Cornell signed me to a futures contract. Because the year prior, during preseason, I gave him business. Romeo Cornell gets fired. They bring in Eric Mangini. Eric Mangini wanna bring in all the Patriots and the Jets, and I watched my name go from 5th on the depth chart to 15. And then I seen 15 on the depth chart, R5. At that moment, I said, "Mm-mm. So I'm not, I'm not doing this." It was really like I'm sitting in meetings and special teams,

• 21:00Speaker 03

  and I see all the names, and I see myself having to go through that process again. Checked out. Started falling asleep in meetings, not caring. I get cut. My family said, "What happened?" I said, "I don't wanna play no more." 'Cause I couldn't do that again. Like, I had already beat the dragon, you know what I'm saying? I already beat the pain med dragon and the drug abuse dragon. I'm not gonna be 15th on the depth chart and work my way back up to 5 or 3. I'm not doing that no more. So, I got cut, and I said, "That's it."

• 21:28Ryan Clark?

  You know, but that's a Plan B luxury. You know, like, I have a saying. I'm always like, "Man, you know, the best way to have a great Plan B is to be really good at Plan A." Right? I worked really hard at football. And because I worked really hard there, it got me in the doors and ESPNs and the NFL networks. And I was able to show that Plan B could work out as well. But for me, it was Plan A, Plan A. Right? And when I got cut from New York, and I got picked up the first day of camp in Washington, it was like, "How am I gonna make this team?"

• 22:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 22:00Ryan Clark?

  When I dang near passed out in the first practice, and my coach that was in New York came up to me, he's like, "You gotta do something this practice, or they gonna bring somebody in." 'Cause they just need bodies. Right? And I knew I had to do it. So my mind was, "How do I make that next play? How do I do this next thing?" And it was always like that. Channing asked about like, well, why did you play? I think it sort of came full circle then because I would sit there because football was my thing. Right? Because I loved it so much from the first time I saw it. I would see myself, you know, 15th on the depth chart, R5. And I'd be like, at practice today, when we get the special team, somebody gonna go to sleep, me or them. Right? Like, that's, that's my thought. But it helped you to say, nah, I've always had this plan to do this.

• 22:41Ryan Clark?

  And so you walk away and you call Adrian Lennox or...

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:46Ryan Clark?

  And so what is that conversation like? Because to me, if I would have called my people at that point, just because they knew me, they'd have been like, some of them ain't right. There's no way you're just walking away.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Right.

• 22:58Ryan Clark?

  So when you pick up that phone and make that call and say, hey, I want to do what you're doing, tell me what that conversation was like.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  See, it was different for me than most athletes. My whole family, all my friends knew I was an entertainer. Even when I was in Detroit, me and Roy Williams locker was next to each other. I had my own segment on the Detroit News while I played football where I would interview my teammates. At practice, I catch something, I'm dancing. Like, I always entertain people. So when people heard I walked away from football, it was like, oh, he really gonna go do what he want to do. Because, because remember, your plan A was football. My plan A was entertainment. But for me, the way I look at life is, you can have a plan A, but you can use other methods to get to plan A.

• 23:38Ryan Clark?

  D, but your plan B is as difficult or even harder than plan A. You know, like, plan B is like, I'm gonna go be an accountant.

• 23:47Speaker 03

  Right.

• 23:47Ryan Clark?

  I'm gonna sell real estate.

• 23:49Speaker 03

  Right, right, right.

• 23:49Ryan Clark?

  Right? Like, you picked, you said, you know what? We gonna go from being a one percenter to doing it again.

• 23:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:55Ryan Clark?

  Where people just like, oh, yeah, man, come on, you gonna be great as an actor. Or you'll be great as an entertainer. Was there any pushback to making that decision?

• 24:03Speaker 03

  There's always pushback now. People still see me as the football player or the YouTube guy. And they just like, you can't really get into Hollywood. Then you book a TV show and it's like, oh, you just booked a TV show. It's only on BET. Then I got my first lead role in a Netflix film coming out and, oh, it's, it's like, people will always find a way to discredit what you do if they can't do it. But I don't listen to the noise. Like, like, I don't do things for other people's admiration. I do it because that's what I want to do. So what people say about me while I'm doing it doesn't matter. Plus, I'm just, I like proving people wrong. Like, same thing with football. When I went from basketball in high school to football, you never played football, you too little. I was like, watch me. You know what I'm saying? It's like that same mentality that I had for football to prove it. I got it for acting.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  So for me, that's just all it was about, like just proving people wrong. And, and understanding the skill and educating myself on what it takes to be an actor. The same way, I had to learn to respect football. I was a basketball player. And I was like, I can do this, I can run fast, I can catch. And then you get in that huddle. And you like, oh shit. Like this. And then, and then forget that. I'm the little fast guy. And then when you get to the league, and you got the big fast guys. I played against, uh, Boss Bailey. Boss Bailey's 6'5" but can run like me.

• 25:21Channing Crowder?

  Monster.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  You scene release, you get inside, you try to go around a boss and you like, you 6'5", you 260, I'm running by you. And then you running and you like, oh shit! But then here's the crazy part. You go to catch the pass, cause you like, find he on me. I'mma just go up and, and then when you go up, he go up and turn around and, and you like, oh, okay, I see. Like the NFL is, is different. Like, that made me realize that, okay, if I don't have the passion to get up every day and do like you did, or you did, or you did, this can't be mine. I can't do this.

• 25:56Channing Crowder?

  Got you.

• 25:57Speaker 03

  You know, I just can't. Like I didn't have the love for it. Did I have the skill and the ability? Yes. Yes, I was a 4'2" guy in college. I had a 4'1" vertical. I did 225, 16 times. My 5'10" 5 was 3'8", my L drill was 6'7". Like I, I was fast, I could catch the ball. But when you get up on a Sunday and you don't wanna practice.

• 26:16Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 03

  But then you got other guys who just as fast as you, who already up, who was doing drills for 45 minutes to prepare for practice, you start thinking to yourself like, like nah, bro. There's no, there's no way you 6'5", 225 can move like me and was practicing 45 minutes before I got out here and I gotta compete with you. When all I'm thinking about is what movie I wanna do when I get out of here. Like I, I knew I couldn't compete at that level. So I was like, let's, let's make this vivid.

• 26:43Channing Crowder?

  It's crazy. Because kind of like what RC was just saying, like football's hard, the 1%. But acting's not easy. Singing's not easy. I was just looking at something, you sold out a. You had the. You had the Prince. The Prince video cameras up. Singing, rapping, acting, that's not all easy. What, is football tougher than that? Because that's, I don't even know, I don't know if it's a 1% of 1%, but that's what everybody says. But all four of those things seem like they're hard as hell.

• 27:15Speaker 03

  They are, but it ain't tough when it's your passion. Like y'all were great at football because y'all loved it, yo. Like if I told you, you had to get out there in front of an audience at a sold out Apollo, dance like us, do a backflip on cue, on music and do all this stuff, y'all be like, hell no. But if I told you right now to feed your family, you had to go out there and make three sets, you'd be like, oh, I could do that in a heartbeat because that's your passion. This is my passion, I love entertaining. I love it, I love the crowd, I love being able to try new things, I love being able to create a new person. Like, I, I implore all of you as men to understand that your mindset really dictates what you're gonna do. When you start thinking that you can only do this, you're only gonna be able to do that. Like y'all need to start opening up and thinking, what else can I do?

• 28:01Speaker 03

  Y'all Emmy nominated, yo, let's, let's be real, bro. Y'all three black men who play professional football, y'all supposed to be Neanderthals. You know what I'm saying? You, you started a podcast that was just on YouTube, but now you're like probably top five most famous podcasts in the world right now? Because y'all had a passion for it. Think about what y'all are doing for, for me. I'm a 40-year-old man and I look up to y'all. Like I'm a 40-year-old man, I called this man like, please, Ryan, please. Because I got a story to tell and I got the story I wanted to be told to, to us. You know what I'm saying? I know there's a lot of young men and women who's gonna watch this pivot episode and be like, damn, there are other things I want to do and I never thought that I could. And I wanted to be able to tell that, but y'all made that possible because y'all are doing great.

• 28:46Speaker 03

  You say 1%, y'all just 1%ed the 1%, Emmy nominated? That's like 1% of the 1%, y'all's like a thousandth of a percent. So I think anything is possible, there's nothing in my life I don't think I, I can't do. Seriously.

• 29:00Fred Taylor?

  You sound just like somebody in this room. And I'm looking at different comparisons, being undrafted, approaching everything with a chip on their shoulder. You can probably look up and see who I'm talking with.

• 29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I already know this guy, man. My suits are better though.

• 29:14Fred Taylor?

  He approaches everything.

• 29:17Speaker 03

  I knew I was gonna get him. I knew I was gonna get him.

• 29:20Fred Taylor?

  That's a sin in this room.

• 29:22Ryan Clark?

  Freddie T, I'm glad you got a sensible question, because we're losing our minds here.

• 29:27Fred Taylor?

  He wouldn't touch you, bro.

• 29:29Ryan Clark?

  Watch him.

• 29:29Fred Taylor?

  He wouldn't touch you. The other part to that, you know, you're saying that football really wasn't your thing. And as children, as kids, we do have certain dreams.

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:40Fred Taylor?

  You know, I don't know if you saw yourself as that entertainer. Did you see yourself ever selling out the Apollo?

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Dude, I remember having visions. This is how crazy my mind works, and I don't mean this out arrogant. I remember sitting in my parents' car. My dad had a black Cutlass Calais. And I used to play in the streets with all my friends. We played basketball on nights and everybody. We played football on Monday past everybody. And I remember saying to myself, do I want to be an entertainer like Will Smith and Michael Jackson? Or don't want to be an athlete like Deion Sanders? I remember asking myself from the back of the car. And I remember saying to myself, oh, man, athletes get old. Entertainers entertain forever. And that's why I wanted to be an entertainer. So I seen, I seen, like, I had visions. Like, I'm a big believer in faith. I'm a big believer in God and the secret manifestations. So for me, if I can see it, that means it's already happened.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  God has delivered it to me that is in my future. I just gotta work to get there. And I don't put a timetable on it. Because if you put a timetable on it, then you're like, oh, if I don't do it in five years, I failed. No, you only fail when you quit. For me, it's just, I'm gonna keep doing it and doing it until it happens. And then people be like, yo, you sold out the Apollo. Yeah, I sold out the Apollo at 40. But most people think if you don't do it in your 20s, then you failed.

• 30:58Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  So for me, I'm like, life is life. I'm gonna just keep doing it. That might be something else. Couple of years from now, I'm gonna be like, you know what I want to say? I might try to see and see what happened there. You know what I'm saying?

• 31:08Ryan Clark?

  It's the, you know, you mentioned something a while back. I think it was on, I think they call it the fellas.

• 31:14Speaker 03

  Yes, the fellas, yeah.

• 31:15Ryan Clark?

  And you were talking about raising your kids and the certain things you don't show about raising your kids because you feel like people would push back against

• 31:23Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 31:24Ryan Clark?

  who you are as a parent sometimes.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 31:26Ryan Clark?

  And I, I think that's smart because you can't give the world everything.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  No.

• 31:30Ryan Clark?

  But you do, you know, you and your wife, awesome couple. You guys talk about relationships. You guys talk about race. You guys talk about parenting and it's almost as if you like, you've been grouped together that you can't be separate.

• 31:43Speaker 03

  Right.

• 31:43Ryan Clark?

  Sometimes. And then even like all your posts when you're doing the family stuff, like it's just funny. You know what I mean? Like when you married a chick, you met a cop, like all those things, right? But it almost gives like a perception of you, it's like, oh, like he's like the sweetheart. Like the good husband.

• 31:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 31:58Ryan Clark?

  The great dad, but sitting here, I'm like, oh, he got some stuff to him. Right? Like, like, like just, like listening to it, you know, because like even like he from Brooklyn. Like everybody, you know, from Brooklyn, it's almost like, like they're a little rough around the edges. Like when, when you sit with him, you can feel a little bit like, oh, nah, like he ain't really playing. Like he ain't acting. How do you balance those things? And which parts of those do you want the world to know? Right? Because there's the side, like I said, the perception side and then what I feel here. How have you learned what I'm going to give the public?

• 32:36Speaker 03

  There's 1,440 minutes in a day. On Instagram, I give you one a day. I give you one minute. So how much do you really know about me? People will, will put the content you put out. People are going to create their own narrative about who you are, regardless of what the content is. I've learned to understand that when you're an entertainer, people have a right to their opinion about who you are. I don't fight people on their opinion. I know who I am. So when it comes to my kids, I will show them what I want them to see about my children because my children also have to decide how much they want to share. You know what I'm saying? So when it comes to my children, it's like, if this is the story I want to tell today, if this is the message I want, because I'm also big about putting out positive messages. People often ask me, why'd you start social media?

• 33:21Speaker 03

  In 2016, my son was five, I got my first like real opportunity to be on Power. And this was my third time being on like national television.

• 33:32Speaker 03

  Third time wearing an orange jumpsuit. My son, five years old, goes, "Damn daddy, you always wear that jumpsuit." I said, "Damn." Here I am trying to change the stereotypes of who we are as black men, but I'm perpetuating the stereotype on TV every time I take a role doing that. So I said, "I'm not doing that anymore." So I stopped auditioning for those roles and I decided that I was going to do a social sitcom. At the time, nobody knew what a social sitcom was. And I was like, "Yo, Instagram gives us 15 seconds." I'm gonna write a 15-second script. It's gonna be a message and it's gonna be funny. Because I want producers to see that black men, especially black athletes, are more than just Neanderthals that run through walls.

• 34:14Speaker 03

  I included my children and my wife because I wanted them to see me in my sexuality. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't just see me as the guy who played football. See me as a human. Because one thing y'all don't know about this entertainment industry is most of the people who write the stories about us aren't us. So they can only write based on what they know or they see. I wanted to change that. So when you see me on social media, just know it's entertainment. Social media is no different than television and movies. It's entertainment. The 99% of the vow, nobody really knows. That's why when I sit here, it's kind of like, "Okay, he not like I thought he was." Because I don't really show people that. I'm at a point now in my career where I'm tired of entertaining all the time.

• 34:59Speaker 03

  I want to be devout. Like, I want other young men to see, like, "Oh, he's not just the caricature that he portrays on Instagram." That caricature y'all see on "I Am Devout" is not me. You speak to my kids and they're all laughing and goofy and happy. My kids know how to play that game, too. If my kids walk in here, you'll be like, "Oh, them kids got something to them, too." They're gonna look you in the eye, they're gonna shake your hand, they're gonna ask questions. You know, they're gonna be responsive. But also, if you ask them something, they don't want to tell you, they'd be like, "I don't know you." But also, as black men, we have to have a right to do that. Because think about it, when in this world have we ever had the right to be free?

• 35:38Speaker 03

  Me and my wife talking about this all the time. We just came off the plane and it's crazy. I watch as people will wait for other white people and races to go. Me and my wife going, they just walk in front of me as if like, damn, like, I'm not even human enough for you. You held the door for them, you waited for them, but then when it's me and my wife, y'all just walk in front of us? Not me. They go, excuse me, can you wait for my wife, please? You saw my wife standing here? You know what I'm saying? Like, people need to understand who we are as people. And so I started with social media so they can, you know, oh, he happy. Cause that's a part of us too. They don't think that we're like that. So that when I have to be like that, they could be like, oh, well, he's not always like that, he's always a happy guy.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  So that's why I put out what I put on our social media, so it can kind of put people's guard down, so they understand I'm not an angry Neanderthal all the time, cause that's what you're used to. I'm a family man, you know what I'm saying? Give me some opportunities as a family man too.

• 36:35Speaker 00

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• 37:05Channing Crowder?

  It seems like the bread is made on the other side, though. And that's what I think a lot of guys make that sacrifice to, is that they have to play that role to get paid. Like you said, you gonna give up a role not to be a prisoner. But that's a check that you just gave up. That's food out your kid's mouth, you know what I'm saying? So a lot of people make that decision that the bread, the check, whatever it is, is bigger than what you're trying to portray or what you're trying to show.

• 37:31Speaker 03

  All money ain't good money. You know what I'm saying? If you making money, but your money is detrimental to your community or your family or yourself, is it really good money? When you die, what you, you're not going with the money. When you die, you going with your soul, with your spirit. What did you provide to earth? You know what I'm saying? And if you can't feel comfortable with yourself living every single day, you wake up in the morning, you look in the mirror and you like... I don't know how long I could do this, then you shouldn't be doing that. And that's what I had to deal with. My son saying daddy, I always see you in the orange jumpsuit, broke me, bro. Because at the time, I was mentoring, remember when I first retired from the NFL, I was mentoring over 500 young black men and women in Brooklyn. And I'm teaching them about all of these different standards and what they have to be.

• 38:13Speaker 03

  But then they gotta watch me on Power to Play an inmate again? When last week I was on the blacklist and I played an ex-con who murdered somebody? Like, how do I talk to these kids about putting out different messages while I'm doing that? It was the same thing on Sisters with Zack.

• 38:29Ryan Clark?

  I was about to ask the same question. What you're most famous for now as an actor is playing an ex-con. And you know, we talked about it, you made me look this word up, by the way, recidivism.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:40Ryan Clark?

  And just the ability to relapse and become your old self. Or fall into those old ways. Why is playing Zack different than some of those roles you ran away from?

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Because those roles kept Zack, well, kept that character in that place. If he was an ex-con, he stayed an ex-con, he died an ex-con. Zack is a redemption story. Zack started as an ex-con. He was dealing with recidivism, in and out of prison. But then Zack was like, man, I really need to change my life. So we're watching Zack change his life. And Zack's story reminds me of an athlete's story. Dude got no money. He just working, he in the airport 15 hours, making little, kinda like us, we in the gym, in college. We putting in hours, no money. Everybody, he ain't gonna make it, he ain't gonna make it, he just like everybody else, he ain't gonna never make it. Then Zack just runs into money. And now, he wants to be a businessman. And you know what happens when he wants to be a businessman? People constantly remind him of who he was.

• 39:38Speaker 03

  And we watch Zack try to fight those demons while still grow. That's what we as athletes go through. Every time somebody does something successful, they gotta remind them of what he did in his past, right? Don't we say, damn, he got past that already. He won the Super Bowl. He's a head coach, but we gonna talk about 1990 something, so and so was arrested. It's like, why do we do that to our black athletes? So for me, with Zack, it was like, I sat down with Tyler Perry. Tyler was just like, where do you wanna see Zack's story go? He asked me, and this is something that I have to credit Tyler for, because he's very, very aware. And he was just like, I can see that this character's gonna be loved. What do you want to see? I said, I want to see him win. I want people to watch an ex-con dealing with recidivism.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  And recidivism is you have the propensity to go back to jail. So it's the system. They create a way for you in the probation system. You know, you have a probation officer. If you don't follow all these rules, you go right back. It's a way for the system to keep us in and out of prison. And I said, I don't want Zach to be that guy in the show. He's like, what do you want him to do? I said, I want him to have a family. I want him to meet a woman. I want him to try to be the best version. And then Tyler said, I got it.

• 40:51Speaker 03

  And he did the rest. He started writing where he wanted Zach's story to go. And I fell in love with it. Cause I'm like, man, if you watch season one, he was living on his girl couch, working at the airport. Now he got his own duplex. He got a fiance. He found out he had other kids. He's trying to be the best father, but he's also making mistakes through that process. It ain't the fairy tale. He's still got, you know, he's still doing stuff like dudes do. He a dude that just came into money. Women at him. Slipped up. Got back with my ex one time. You know what I'm saying? That happens. That's real life. One of the things that really like got to me two years ago, my boy Matt, who was there, he was there filming. We were doing a documentary for my wife and I's Love Against the World Tour. We come out of Kings Plaza in Brooklyn.

• 41:34Speaker 03

  A girl runs up on me, gives me the biggest hug. She's like, yo, my husband's been locked up six years. They watch Sisters every Wednesday. And everybody in it is like, yo, when I get out, I'm gonna be like Zach. You know how much that meant to me, yo? From my, like full circle, from my son saying, Jim, you always got on that orange jumpsuit. To hearing a young lady say, man, my husband is locked up. He said, when he get out, everybody saying they want to be like Zach. They tired of the bullshit. They tired of being in and out. They want to get a girl and, and build a life. And I'm like, that's, that's my calling for this role. Is to be an example.

• 42:10Channing Crowder?

  And bro, Tyler Perry billionaire.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:14Channing Crowder?

  Tyler been around, hell, before you, before you even played ball.

• 42:18Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 42:18Channing Crowder?

  He took your advice on the angle of a character. He took your advice on the angle of Zach.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Because Tyler writes, directs and produces everything. But think about it. He's a 53 year old man who's never, never been a pro athlete. He's been rich, no, not even, he's been wealthy since his twenties. He doesn't have those experiences that we've had. So he often sits down with his actors and says, you know, where do you see this character going? And then he builds the story like that's his writer's room.

• 42:48Fred Taylor?

  That's crazy.

• 42:49Speaker 03

  So, and also, when I tell you, I've been able to build an empire for my family, largely in part because of the advice from a billionaire. How many people can call the billionaire and be like, "Yo Tyler, I'm looking to do..." And he could be like, "Why would you do it that way? There's a very easier way to do this." That's how my tours started to become what they become. I've listened to him, and he's not a gatekeeper. He don't say, "Call my attorney." No, he's like, "What you doing? Try this way. Try to put all your tour expenses at the end of the year so that you can get a tax write-off, so that when the tour starts, everything is in surplus."

• 43:25Speaker 03

  You know what I'm saying? So it's like, "Wait a minute, I made two million last year, say. The government, y'all know, gonna take forty percent of that." So it's like, "Dang, forty percent, that's eight hundred thousand dollars. I'm not giving that just to the government. Let me invest in my art. Let me invest in these tours. I don't need sponsors to do that. I can just take my own money, invest in it, and then when the money comes back in, I can keep rotating it." I'm like, "Dang, that's how he made his money. He just kept investing in himself." And he taught me ways to do it. I'm really just following suit. I'm not making up anything new. I'm just doing what he did, and I'm gonna say I'm gonna feed my family the same way."

• 44:02Fred Taylor?

  I think those were two things I wanted to kind of jump on was, one, the working relationship with Tyler, and the biggest takeaway. How is he away from all of that? You know, like, aside from the movie stuff, is he like more of a mentor, big brother, outside of the acting part? How was he able to keep you from losing your mind during this whole writer's strike and all that other crazy stuff?

• 44:28Speaker 03

  One thing I tell you about Tyler Perry is he takes care of his people. When the writer's strike was over in October, he told the studio, "We need to get people back to work immediately, especially for the holidays. People can't close out the year without getting paid." So he wrote two seasons quickly, and we got back to work. Because he cares a lot about the people at his studio. And when I tell you he... How much money y'all think Tyler Perry make a year? Whatever it is, you can multiply it times a thousand. That's all I'm gonna say.

• 44:58Channing Crowder?

  It's about to be a big number.

• 45:00Speaker 03

  It's a huge number. And the truth of the matter is, he uses a lot of that money to help his community. There are so many people who would not have a place to stay, a job. He also has his own program at the studio for people with recidivism, who can work as soon as they come out. Like, he really uses that to build something for us. I asked him, I know, I know everybody's seen on the internet, he got like a hundred thousand square foot home. So, I'm like, "Yo T, why you need a big ass house like this?" He said, "Name a monument we have as a people in this country that represents us." He was like, "I always got Graceland." I was like... He said, "When I die, everything's gonna go into trust. My child or children will be taken care of, but this is gonna be for us."

• 45:45Speaker 03

  People will come back to Tyler Perry Studios like Disneyland. They'll go to my house like Graceland and say, "Dang, a black man from Louisiana, who came from poor parents, was able to build this. I can do that." It's like, his vision is bigger than entertainment. People think that he's an entertainer. He's not just an entertainer. He's a brilliant businessman. And he's an icon for our people. So, to me, he's like the best mentor I can have. He doesn't gatekeep. He gives me all the information I need. And he just asks for the same thing our coaches ask for. Give me dedication when I need it. Because we film differently. We film 25 episodes in two weeks, which is not easy. You know how that is. I mean, y'all in the entertainment industry now,

• 46:29Speaker 03

  just to do this show here, it takes a lot to get people here. But imagine if you have a 420 people set, that you have to make sure everybody is there for two weeks. The people that he trusts are the people who come to work. They're diligent, they don't cause trouble. And that's me. And I learned that from football, though. Like, y'all know how football is.

• 46:48Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, you gotta go.

• 46:49Speaker 03

  Gotta go. Keep that, "What you need, coach? My helmet is on already. I'm not gonna complain. I'm smiling." Because you also know bad body language people. People be in the locker room. That was me in Cleveland. Remember when you asked, "When was the moment that you realized, like, I didn't want to do this no more?" When I seen myself 15, I was like, "Man..."

• 47:08Speaker 03

  I'm not doing this and I was out of that, I got cut two weeks later. So I kid you not, two weeks I got cut and I was like, my body language so bad, bro. Like, but yeah, Tyler is like my big bro, man. We speak like once a month, no, once a week, once a week.

• 47:24Ryan Clark?

  You know, you mentioned that, he said the character would be big and people would love that character. But it also takes an evolution of being able to show someone like Tyler Perry, I can play that character.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:38Ryan Clark?

  I can invest parts of myself into him. What parts of you have you had to pull from your real life, from your experiences, from your upbringing, to pour into a character that you said is much like an athlete? It's kind of starting from the bottom.

• 47:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 47:56Ryan Clark?

  But he also has a history that holds him back, a little different than an athlete that started.

• 48:02Speaker 03

  So, there are two parts to my life. You know, everybody knows the vow of family man and stuff like that, but I did come from Brooklyn. So I got family who, this is, like my cousin, my, one of my closest cousins, and I'm not gonna say his name, but when we were 17, he got arrested for attempted murder and armed robbery. And I watched him do eight years. And this is like my boy, like we grew up together. And I watched what he went through coming out and I watched when he went through. And the funny thing is when he came out, when he started to do better is when he got stabbed. He got stabbed after being out and I'm like, yo, you did eight years upstate and he had no trouble. You come out and you get stabbed. But then what it showed me is that when you get out, the people around you are the people you have to be worried about the most.

• 48:46Speaker 03

  So when I play Zach, I think about him. I think about my struggles in the NFL when I first started making money. And I consider myself a handsome guy, but you become thousands of times more handsome when you make money. And you see now on the show, everybody wants Zach, not because he handsome, but because he got something. He got something that other people don't have. So I lean into those times and I remember what it was like and what my thought process was. So when it's time to play the character, it's like... I gotta let go of who DeVal is now and remember like 23-year-old DeVal. And the struggles of trying to fight off when I'm engaged. And you know, you're engaged, but now all the exes, it's just like, DeVal, you was the one the whole time.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  And I'm like, nah, nah, nah, I wasn't. Nah, I wasn't, because when I was in college, I was 148 pounds, that's when you was messing with old boy. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't tell me I was the one now, because I was not the one then. But I remember what that felt like. Like, that's why people was like, man, you get so emotional on TV. I'm like, I've had my heart broken in real life. I've lost people in real life. I've lost opportunities. You know what I'm saying? So it's easy for me to draw from them places.

• 49:57Channing Crowder?

  And speaking about drawing from it, this is something I asked Omar Hartwell to with his acting stuff. With the passionate scenes. Like...

• 50:09Ryan Clark?

  What are passionate scenes? Like when he's really trying to get a point across? What do you mean passionate, Channing?

• 50:16Channing Crowder?

  Fucking...

• 50:20Channing Crowder?

  But, but, like, is that... Like, and I just thought about it, you know, my mind works differently.

• 50:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 50:25Channing Crowder?

  But you're talking about like how you draw from that, from that character, but...

• 50:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 50:29Channing Crowder?

  You have a bunch of kids with your beautiful wife, Kay. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, y'all, we know how babies are made.

• 50:35Speaker 03

  I do a lot of that, yes.

• 50:36Channing Crowder?

  Yeah, but is it the same? Is it, you know, like, that transition, just when you were speaking of, of the drawing for the dude that just got out of jail? Your cousin, your homeboy. Are you drawing from that as well?

• 50:50Speaker 03

  Actually, actually, yes. I am drawing from the fact that you have relations with women. But I'm gonna draw a picture for y'all. Y'all tell me if this is gonna be sexy at all, right? Now, you know, I played Omari Hartwell's body double for three years on Power. So Omari is like my big brother. Like, he played in the NFL as well. We got the same build. Like, I was his body double, so I watched him for three years and I watched how it works. Now, when Omari was working, this was right before the whole Me Too movement. Now, they have sex coordinators, or intimacy coordinators. Intimacy coordinators are like stunt coordinators. And before every scene, they come in with the little Gumby things, and they say, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  This is what it's gonna look like. They come out with a pad. And they put the pad on the young lady and the pad covers everything here. You know what I'm saying, so you just you don't feel anything. Now, us, guys, you gotta put your whole joint and your nuts in a sack. And you tie that joint up so that you it's like, cause you can't get an erection. Like that's assault. If you on set with a young lady and you, y'all going through scenes and you have an erection and you rubbing your, you can't do that. So they put the thing, you have practices where they ask her what she's comfortable with, what you're comfortable with. You make a decision and you say, okay, let's film the scene. Now that's just before you film the scene. So now we actually going to film the scene. My stiff is tied up in a knot. Does that feel sexy to y'all? No.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Okay, so automatically, this is whack, right? Now she got the pad here, she got the nipple covers if that's what she decides. Plus you got Tyler Perry 6'5", 260. You got all these dudes, they don't want you sweating in there, so it's cold as a motherfucker in there. Alright, it's lights, right? So it's you and her in the middle. And you got all these people around you, these cameras, Tyler Perry, alright Deva, alright, uh, uh, pick her leg up, pick her leg up.

• 52:48Speaker 03

  So like this, so people, and but when you see it though, cause y'all have seen this, you be like, ah, don't get in there. No, no. There's nothing, no. That's why me and Crystal become such good friends, cause it's funny to us that people think that we really be having sex on them. Like you really think we, this ain't soft porn. Like come on, like people gotta be adults. Like y'all think they just put us in a room and be like, ah, y'all gonna have sex, we gonna film it. And we just gonna put this on BET. That's not how it works, yo. There's so many things that happened before and it's not sexy at all. It's not, and the intimacy coordinator be right, she be right there like this. Most intimacy coordinators are women, obviously, and they're just like this, and if things about to get too close, she be like, ah, no, Scott, Scott, halt, halt.

• 53:33Speaker 03

  Now you got her leg up here, you know, you trying to work on your melvin and I'm just like, cut, and I'm like, fuck. Don't put her down, Deva, I'm like, okay, y'all seen Fatima, Fatima think it's hell. I'm like, okay, I'm like, starting to sweat, like he sweating. Turn up the AC, nothing about, you know what I'm saying? Them people talking shit, thought you played football, hold on, I did play football, motherfucker. Like, this, this is the sex scene. What y'all sees beautiful.

• 53:58Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 53:59Speaker 03

  What we go through is hell.

• 54:00Ryan Clark?

  Oh, okay.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  It's hell, bro. That shit ain't sexy, bro.

• 54:04Ryan Clark?

  Hey, Chan, and too, they let him, he knows your secret. Here's a lot of boys. You said it's a secret. He knows, we got four boys. Y'all got four boys too? No, you got four boys. I got four boys, yeah.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got, I got five.

• 54:17Ryan Clark?

  So does Fred know the secret too? Everybody knows a secret. You got one boy. Yeah, I didn't know the secret. You got lucky one time.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  No, they catch up.

• 54:25Ryan Clark?

  Mm-mm.

• 54:27Speaker 03

  Hair to hair.

• 54:32Speaker 03

  I'm not fucking with him. I'm not fucking with him. Oh, no, he's a troublemaker. Yeah, I'm not fucking with him, man. He's a troublemaker. I am not. But it's only good loving.

• 54:40Ryan Clark?

  It is. Let me tell you, Deval too, when I went home, it was Easter, and I was like, yeah, mom, you know, talking to my parents. I was like, yeah, sure, I'm gonna do, like, me and Deval talked on the phone, and my mom, this is my mom in church, I say it all the time, eight days a week.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I know that.

• 54:53Ryan Clark?

  24 hours.

• 54:54Speaker 03

  I know that.

• 54:55Ryan Clark?

  I love him.

• 54:56Speaker 03

  Aw, that's what's up, mom.

• 54:58Ryan Clark?

  I was like, oh, we gotta get this done ASAP.

• 55:01Speaker 03

  What's up, mom?

• 55:02Ryan Clark?

  She's actually gonna be happy to now know that the intimacy coordinator.

• 55:05Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, she is.

• 55:06Ryan Clark?

  Make, make sure that.

• 55:07Speaker 03

  Yo, no, no, no, seriously, it, it is a thing though, cause the, the internet creates narratives.

• 55:11Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:12Speaker 03

  And there was a time when people was like, I can't believe Deval cheating on his wife with the address. I'm like, cheating on my wife with his address? And I look at the sex scenes they doing on TV.

• 55:19Ryan Clark?

  Godmother of my child.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'm like, sex scenes on TV, y'all talking about? But then I had to be honest, like, people don't know.

• 55:26Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 55:26Speaker 03

  Like, they, they from the outside looking in, and they watching, they like, are they kissing up on this woman and they having sex? I'm like, that's not real, people, but when people don't know, it's the same thing with football. You know how people just watch football and say the dumbest stuff to you? Like, quarterback throws an interception. Receiver misses a hot route, he throws it right to the safety, you been there so many times, you got like, what, 14 picks?

• 55:46Ryan Clark?

  I don't know.

• 55:47Speaker 03

  I think you got 14 picks.

• 55:48Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, 14? 16.

• 55:49Speaker 03

  16, I, I, I don't know, then 16.

• 55:52Ryan Clark?

  He, he don't matter, what, they, the pick I was drafted at, so he's gonna do some research.

• 55:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, no, no, I, I definitely do research.

• 55:58Ryan Clark?

  He has, he has his own show too, like.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do, and I was a broadcast journalism major in college.

• 56:03Ryan Clark?

  Oh.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  So. Throw a pick to Ryan, "This quarterback sucks." He just threw it right to the... Oh, they point shaving. No, the receiver just missed the hot because they blitzed. The defense did a good play. But y'all in here talking about... I mean, y'all see some of your professionals on television do that. Yeah. Break down the play completely wrong. And when you play, you like, "Wait a minute. This person here is a professional on TV breaking this play down wrong like that?" So, when I thought about acting, I was like, "Let me give people grace." Because some people may think that it's real, and it's not. So, I give them grace.

• 56:35Speaker 00

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• 57:04Fred Taylor?

  We were talking about your boys. How have... You spoke about grinding and doing it for your family. But how have they made you better, outside of that part?

• 57:16Speaker 03

  Bro, my sons made me... You got five boys. I know you've probably looked at each of them differently and seen stuff in them that you didn't like and said, "They got that from me." When you have kids, yo, and your sons do stuff like bad body language, bad attitude, talkback, they... You like, "Am I projecting that so my children think that that's okay?" And then it makes you be like, "You know what? Let me check myself." Like, I've checked myself a lot in the last decade. And to be honest, when people say like, "Oh, I love DeVal, I love..." You're watching growth from me having children and being married. Because a lot of people, if they knew 20-year-old DeVal, if I'm being honest, they would've said I was an asshole.

• 58:00Speaker 03

  I don't have a lot of friends from college. I maybe got like four. Because a lot of people ain't fuck with me. I was a problem in the locker room. I had a chip on my... You know how it is. I have a chip on my shoulder. Anybody who I thought was a challenge, I'm challenging you. And then I was like, "Fuck you, I don't got to be friends." And they were like, "You know what I'm saying?" I watched my sons start to be like that because they watched me. And I was like, "Oh, I gotta change that." So, with them...

• 58:26Speaker 03

  I watched them, I say, I don't want my son to make this mistake. Because part of the reason why I got cut in Detroit was because of my attitude. Um, this is a story I never told publicly, but Kippy Brown became the offensive receiver coach. I was busting ass, all OTAs, like crazy. He comes to me at the end of OTAs, man, you keep working hard, you'll be a good fifth receiver. I said, what the fuck you mean, fifth receiver? I'm trying to be the best receiver, you know what? Then I walked away. I started venting to Sean Jefferson, who's my receiver coach. While I'm venting to Sean Jefferson about how fucked up that is, Kippy Brown walks right behind me. After that, my reps went like this.

• 59:09Speaker 03

  And you know what? When I was in my twenties, I blamed Kippy for me getting cut. But now, I'm like, that was, that was for me. You know what I'm saying? Like that, you can't do that. You can't be in a hallway of meeting rooms airing out your grievances with your offensive coordinator and people walking by. So I think of those things and I talk to my sons about emotional maturity. That's my biggest thing in that house. I'm like, hey, you gonna do something, you feel a way? Take a deep breath? Let's talk about it. How's it make you feel? How are you gonna respond now that you feel a way? Because I don't ever want one of my sons to lose an opportunity because their mouth or their attitude. Like, they are a lot like me. So I'm just trying to, trying to be a better person, but also teach them about that.

• 59:52Fred Taylor?

  Did you have to have the conversation about being young black men in this, in this world?

• 59:59Speaker 03

  I wrote a book. Um, it was an Amazon bestseller. Not We Over Me, this was in 2020, after the George Floyd incident. We was in LA, my son was nine at the time, and the NBA was finally coming back. Everybody had on a shirt that said, Black Lives Matter. Jackson says to me, same Jackson that said, Daddy, you always on our s- He said, Daddy, why we gotta say Black Lives Matter? Don't everybody know that?

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  Alright, well, let's, let's discuss it. But I was kind of afraid, because I was like, I don't want to give my son. It becomes a perpetual cycle of your existence as a black man, when you automatically assume that everybody you come across is going to be racist against you. That actually becomes your reality, if you walk into every situation. So what I said, I'm not gonna give, I'm not gonna fear him, I'm not gonna give him anything, I'm just gonna teach him history. So we started from slavery, and we went from slavery to black codes, to the vagrancy act, to mass incarceration, to Jim Crow, and I just explained to him what it was like to exist as a black American. And the first thing he did was cry.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  But then he said to me at nine, and this is where I realized the ability for children to compartmentalize, but also not be skewed by our ideas. He says, "So, they don't hate us because we black, it's about money." I was like, "What made you think that?" He said, "Well, slavery was about money, Jim Crow was about money, mass incarceration, black codes." So he talked about, we talked about how they changed the laws, especially the vagrancy act. For people who don't know, the vagrancy act came out in 1866. In 1865, all blacks were considered free. But when you're considered free, you are a slave. You weren't allowed to read, write, or own property. 1866, they created the vagrancy act, which means if you couldn't read, write, or own property,

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  you were considered a vagrant, which was a felon, and you would then institutionalize, or be considered a prisoner. Then, after they became a prisoner, they started doing convict leasing. Convict leasing meant that if you worked, well, not worked, if you were a prisoner, especially a life sentence, like the movie Life, they could then put you to work, and had to pay you nothing, which is another term of slavery. So my son started to realize it was all about money. He says, "Oh, so it's not just because I'm black, it's a money thing." But that gave him a little bit of pride, because he said, "So we came from being enslaved, to now being able to make money on our own and do our own things," and I said, "Yes." And then he doesn't correlate racism with white people. He correlates racism with a system.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Because that's really what it is. Everybody you come across isn't racist, but there's a system in place that keeps us in a certain state in this country and around the world. So for my boys, when I explained to them what racism is, I didn't want them to be like, all white people are racist. Because, not for nothing, that's how I was kind of brought up. My grandparents grew up in Jim Crow South, Orangeburg, South Carolina. And it was, don't look them in the eye, be polite, be quiet, stay out the way. And I asked my grandmother, I was like, "Yo, why, why did you teach us that?" She said, "I had one responsibility when you came down here this summertime, and it was to get you back home to your parents safely." And that's the only way she knew how. But what that did was created a fear in me.

• 1:03:23Speaker 03

  So when I saw police, or I saw the people, it was like, "Ugh." And I don't want my sons to grow up like that. I want them to be free and have pride. So I tried to teach them about the history of this country and not just the people of this country. You know what I'm saying? Let them understand the system that racism is and not the fact that every time you see somebody, be worried that they're racist, so. And my son just, two months ago, had to deal with that. Y'all probably saw on the internet where white kid just said something, well, a white kid was going in his friend's bag, and he was just like, "Yo, that's my friend's bag, don't take none of that." And the kid said something like, "Yo, this probably smells like you anyway, smells like cotton." And we in Georgia, you know what I'm saying? So you know where his family heritage probably comes from, like, Jim Crow South was only

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  60 years ago. So his grandparents or his parents could have taught him that. So Jackson came home pissed, of course, had a conversation about it, but we moved on from it.

• 1:04:17Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I think our kids are growing up differently than we did. We grew up differently than our parents, so on and so forth, as you continue to go back generations. You know, some of the conversations your grandmother had with you in South Carolina, I'm from the west bank of New Orleans.

• 1:04:34Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:04:35Ryan Clark?

  Right? I'm from Louisiana, so I've had to have those same conversations. And it's beautiful that y'all can have that discourse, and he comes away with it, comes away from it with pride, because it's a very difficult thing. And it's also beautiful that he can understand your perspective through experiences are different than his.

• 1:04:56Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:04:57Ryan Clark?

  And I think teaching it from a historic standpoint is actually... The way to approach it because it allows them to form their opinion based on fact.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:07Ryan Clark?

  Not your opinion or your experience.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  Exactly, and that was actually the whole point. I grew up in Stop and Frisk Brooklyn. Are y'all familiar with Stop and Frisk in Brooklyn? Stop and Frisk?

• 1:05:18Ryan Clark?

  Yes, I do.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:05:19Ryan Clark?

  I heard you say.

• 1:05:20Speaker 03

  In the 90s, early 2000s, you're a young black person and the police could just stop you, check you, frisk you, open your bag, dump your stuff out and send you on your way. Almost like we were in a communist country in Brooklyn, that's what it felt like. So, a lot of my issues, especially with racism, come from that. Because it wasn't just white cops doing it, it was any cop.

• 1:05:41Ryan Clark?

  The system.

• 1:05:42Speaker 03

  So, it's the system, and that's what I was trying to explain to my son. That racism is no longer just predicated towards one group of people being racist towards another. There's a system that is against people who look like us. So, growing up in that, I didn't want my son to have that fear. I'm driving and I hear woo woo, to this day. It's like, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, I do not want my sons to have to like live life like this.

• 1:06:07Ryan Clark?

  You start running through the ways to deal with it. Okay, I gotta do this, I gotta look this way.

• 1:06:12Speaker 03

  Move it down.

• 1:06:12Ryan Clark?

  I gotta be that way.

• 1:06:13Speaker 03

  Open windows.

• 1:06:14Ryan Clark?

  Like, you don't want them to have that feeling. What are, because you talk about some of the images you post. And you give us that one minute. What are some of the things you do from the way you live that you want them to see on the positive aspect of? The way you treat your wife, the way you deal with things business-wise? Or even when you are, because I am exactly like you, bro. Right now, my pet peeve is, because I travel a lot. If you are in Row 12B and I am in 3B, you do not get to walk past me before we get off this plane.

• 1:06:47Speaker 03

  Right, right.

• 1:06:49Ryan Clark?

  Right, and so, I'll be honest. I'm gonna be, hey, this guy was walking out the other day, I put my whole body in the aisle. Excuse me.

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  No, for real.

• 1:06:58Ryan Clark?

  And we was all stuck, because the people in front of me ain't moved either. We was all stuck like this, and we gonna stand here like mother effing sardines stuffed in this can. But I swear to God, you will not get off this plane before me coming from 15C. 15C, it's not happening.

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  Facts.

• 1:07:16Ryan Clark?

  So like, but then I also realized too, I also realized, in my mind, I'm like, but... Putting myself in that position now allows this person to behave in whatever way they want to, right, and react in whatever way they want to, even though in my heart, I feel that you are rude, I feel that you are disrespectful, I feel that you are wrong, and if you're not any of those things, you're actually stupid because there's a way to go out the plane. And now, if they buck, or if they act a certain way, I know who I am, right? I know the reaction I have now given them the opportunity to have toward me, and what that could, and what that could cause me to do, based on the fact that I was like, even though I'm sitting in this chair in 3B, he's not actually trying to disrespect me in particular,

• 1:08:00Ryan Clark?

  but I specifically feel it and I gotta check it. What are some of the ways you try to move so your kids could see some things differently?

• 1:08:07Speaker 03

  Well, we all understand this, we are at different points in our life because we're all public figures. Because we are public figures, we have to move differently, right? You asked to be an entertainer, you have that responsibility to move that way, like that's just the way it is. So for, for me with Jackson, my, my kids travel, and this is not a, this is not a humble brag, but my kids travel first class with me. When we sitting in there, and when I see things about to happen, I'll tell them, I was like, yo, Jax, you see dude pushing through people? He's not pushing through me, bro. But watch how I handle it, bro. Plus, you all lift weights. I know if it's the average man on the plane, you know, I also, I'm also not a brag,

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  I competed nationally in martial arts, jiu-jitsu, and taekwondo since the time I was young. I can handle myself, but I don't have to handle myself. I just get in the aisle, boom. Excuse me, so you mind waiting a second? I need to let my son get out. They see a kid, and it's like, I appreciate you, I thank you for your patience. Then I look at Jax and say, you see how I did that? You know what I'm saying? It's like, and I tell them too, I'm like, now, your dad could get up here, act tough and threaten him and stuff, but then where will I be? He be like locked up. I say, yeah, you wanna see me locked up? He like nah, so I said I have to learn how to temper myself. Cause I wanna get off the plane too, why should I have to wait for him? But I just, I do it and I'm very deliberate about saying watch. And I do the same thing with my wife.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  We have full discussions about marital issues in front of my boys. This is something they'll never see on Instagram, y'all never see this. But when me and my wife disagree, we like to disagree in front of our sons. So that they can see how two people who have to live in a house together can disagree and not be disrespectful or radioactive. So when we have conversations, it's not this, yo, me and your mother talking, go in the room. They gonna have to learn how to deal with women at some point. So it's, hey, we talking about this, I'm like, hey, you notice how me and your mother not raising our voice? You notice how your mother thinks this, I think this. We don't have to agree. We come from two different lives, two different perspectives.

• 1:10:15Speaker 03

  I respect her opinion, she respects mine, we're gonna find a solution oriented way to move forward. But I let them see that in real time as opposed to, yeah?

• 1:10:25Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, y'all.

• 1:10:27Channing Crowder?

  The just, I mean, it's surprising me that people are so surprised that grown men can sit down and talk and disagree and be like, nah, I ain't got you. It's one thing about this show, I think one of the reasons the show is successful is because we sit down, we disagree and be like, okay, bro, you good, I'm good. We don't gotta fight, we don't gotta argue, we don't gotta do nothing. We're good to go, man, yeah, I see your side, you see my side.

• 1:10:49Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 1:10:50Channing Crowder?

  And that's the thing, and that's beautiful.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  It's funny you say that too, because Zoom, you have four boys, you got five, they gonna fight. What I don't do, I don't sit in the middle of them and tell who's right and who's wrong. Y'all discussing and figure it out. If I gotta come down there, trust me, if I come down there, I'm not coming down there to be nice. And I've watched them, and you know, it's 12, 7, 6, and 2. The 2 year old ain't really getting into it. Yeah, he just moving around like, oh, what's happening? The 7 and the 6 year old, they the ones who be, and then the 12 year old, sometimes they try to get with him. And I'm like, hey, y'all gonna have to learn how to deal as young men. Because you get out here in the world, everything can't come to fits. You know, the first couple times somebody get punched or somebody get pushed, I'm like, alright, who the bigger one? Why would you do that to your little brother? Or who the little one?

• 1:11:36Speaker 03

  Why would you do, if he wanted to, he could end you right now. And sometimes it takes, alright, hit your brother again. Don't let his little ass get away with that. That's something I couldn't, you know, you could never show that on social media. Yeah. But then now you hear, "Ah!" And then this is me, "I told you to leave him alone." And then it's done, you know? It's a wrap. Once you give them that latitude to be like, "I'ma let you this one time." But then you have the conversation with the older one, like, "Yo, don't OD." You know what I'm saying? Do not OD, because you know you could hurt him. The older be like, "Alright." They can't wait. You know, they can't wait, but... That's it, just trying to be an example and let them feel their emotions and deal with it.

• 1:12:19Fred Taylor?

  I think the middle names of your sons, too, are pretty dope. The last name of your favorite artists.

• 1:12:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. Yo, y'all really do research on this shit, man.

• 1:12:27Fred Taylor?

  I mean, what is it, Carter, Shakur, Hendrix, and Marley?

• 1:12:32Speaker 03

  Yes, sir! Yes, sir, yes, sir.

• 1:12:34Fred Taylor?

  So with that?

• 1:12:35Speaker 03

  Shakur Tupac is one of my idols, bro. One of my idols, I love Tupac.

• 1:12:41Fred Taylor?

  Nah, he's the man, for sure. So with that, we always ask the guests, obviously you should know, biggest pivot question was coming. So what's been your biggest pivot in life? Which is, without that moment happening, it wouldn't be you. You wouldn't be here.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  My biggest pivot in life would have to be 15 years old. I'm a sophomore. I block a big, this is, I block a big, come down dribble dunk a basketball, right? Football coach walking through the gym, football team's only eight, three years in a row. Comes up to me and say, "You wanna go to college?" I'm like, "Hell, yeah." "Now come play football." I'm like, "Hell, no." Like, I'm, yo, I'm like, there's no, I'm not tackling nobody. He was like, "Listen." Oh, his name is Jeffrey Ishmael. To this day, he's still my guy. He's like, "You play between the numbers and the fucking sidelines." If you play between the numbers and the sidelines, you'll go to college for free. And I was like, damn, I don't really wanna play no football, bro.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  My older, my, my younger brother is a football player. He's way better football player than me, like, always been, but he's one of them kids that's aggressive, like, you know, you know, certain kids that's gonna play football. Like, when y'all playing manhunt, everybody else is trying to get away, he the one running through everybody, like, you like, yo, what is, that's my, my little brother. I watched him beat his body up, said I didn't wanna do that, but I knew I wanted to go to college for free. So, when that moment came for me to play football in high school, it just changed the trajectory of my life. I don't think I would've went to college for free playing basketball, 'cause I didn't love basketball enough to put the work in. Um, I had a skill set for football, being that fast and athletic, the skill set just matched.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  Basketball, man, you 5'10", like, you could be the most skilled person, but it's very, very rare that you can make it 5'10", and if I didn't make that change, I don't know what I would've been doing. I probably would've been an accountant, to be honest, because that was my other option. If I didn't go to school for free, I was gonna go to Baruch, it was a city school. I had my plan, I was gonna go to Baruch, city school right there, get my degree, go work on the stock market. My certified financial planner now was working for Morgan Stanley at the time, and I was gonna go intern with him. I had that plan set up when I was 16. Then football came and changed my life. Love it.

• 1:14:56Ryan Clark?

  I mean, you had more plans, too, than I had, for sure. And the ability to execute, I guess it was actually plan B, to go from basketball to football. Football, prepare yourself to sort of have a nest egg, lose that nest egg, and believe in yourself enough to make it an act, man. I think it was amazing. I appreciate you reaching out. Glad we got to get it done, man.

• 1:15:21Speaker 03

  It's love, bro, I appreciate y'all.

• 1:15:22Ryan Clark?

  Keep doing your thing, brother.

• 1:15:23Speaker 03

  Y'all inspiring me, my genes.

• 1:15:25Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, brother, that's all.

• 1:15:26Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. Light skin's gotta stay together, man.

• 1:15:29Ryan Clark?

  Don't let them, don't let them tear the park. Deval, bro, you are not light skinned, though.

• 1:15:34Channing Crowder?

  That's debatable. Come on, Red. You are not. Come on, Red.

• 1:15:38Ryan Clark?

  Jay, he spreads color.

• 1:15:40Fred Taylor?

  You talking about money make you a thousand times prettier, right? This, all he did was get teeth.

• 1:15:47Ryan Clark?

  Paid 20,000 for him.

• 1:15:48Fred Taylor?

  No, he said money make you more sexier, more attractive.

• 1:15:53Fred Taylor?

  He can't stop smiling.

• 1:15:55Ryan Clark?

  Devale, he always had money, but when them teeth was the other way, he was not handsome. Y'all always all had money, man. They was not treating you like that either. With your teeth was like that. You want me to get outside? Asia was with you for your personality.

• 1:16:07Channing Crowder?

  Man, I was throwing dick when I had. I had raccoons.

• 1:16:15Ryan Clark?

  He walked up like, what up?

• 1:16:20Ryan Clark?

  You know what it is, baby, you know.

• 1:16:24Channing Crowder?

  I still had participants.

• 1:16:25Ryan Clark?

  You stupid, dawg.

• 1:16:27Channing Crowder?

  I still had participants.

• 1:16:28Fred Taylor?

  Hey, bro, I appreciate you, man.