How to Spot a Predator | EP 3 | Season 3

After Kenny’s release from jail, his lawyer warned him that something was brewing and to expect additional charges. As he and Cindy worked to defend themselves, they learned the damage was already done. Word has spread throughout Steamboat Springs that Kenny didn’t just abuse Cindy’s son – he sexually abused him. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. For more Burden of Guilt, follow us on Instagram @glasspodcasts https://www.instagram.com/glasspodcasts/. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 3:23Nancy Glass?

  Kenny Hamp is an easygoing, relaxed guy. In 2017, he moved to Steamboat Springs, Colorado. That's because he loved the outdoors. It's the place he thought he could work and play. Well, not only did he find work there, he found something else.

• 3:41Speaker 07

  It worked out for me, because I met Cyndi, you know, the love of my life.

• 3:46Nancy Glass?

  Kenny's relationship with Cyndi flourished into a beautiful partnership. And after a year and a half, Kenny and Cyndi took the next step. They went from partners to fiancés.

• 3:58Speaker 07

  That's when everything erupted, and the dream turned out to be a nightmare.

• 4:05Nancy Glass?

  Just five short days after their engagement, the Steamboat Police arrived at Cyndi and Kenny's front door. They had a warrant for Kenny's arrest.

• 4:16Speaker 07

  So we need you to go ahead and turn around and place your hands behind your back, okay? You are under arrest.

• 4:20Nancy Glass?

  Kenny was stunned.

• 4:22Speaker 07

  All right, Mr. Hamp, let's go ahead and walk this way. The cops came to my house and turned me in handcuffs and threw me in a squad car, threw me into jail. Six hundred and fifty-one in custody.

• 4:33Nancy Glass?

  For the next 20 hours, Kenny Hamp sat in a small jail cell. His head was spinning.

• 4:39Speaker 07

  That was the weirdest experience I've ever had in my life.

• 4:43Nancy Glass?

  Even though no one told him exactly why he was arrested, he had an idea.

• 4:49Speaker 07

  This was an attack, and this was a purposeful agenda. And no way in hell was this going to take me out. No way.

• 5:08Nancy Glass?

  I'm Nancy Glass, and this is season three of Burden of Guilt. Episode three, How to Spot a Predator.

• 5:20Nancy Glass?

  The week Cyndi and Kenny were in Hawaii, they had plenty of things to celebrate.

• 5:25Speaker 07

  That fraud lawsuit was over. She just got her money for it, for the settlement.

• 5:30Nancy Glass?

  That settlement involved the company Cyndi owned with her ex-husband, Steve. According to the Denver Gazette, Cyndi was paid $10.5 million in a settlement with Steve and another former colleague. So that vacation was meant to be a celebration of the end of litigation. And there was more.

• 5:51Speaker 07

  We put money down and we bought the house. That was closing within two weeks.

• 5:55Nancy Glass?

  That house would be Cyndi and Kenny's first home together, and a place they could enjoy with the kids.

• 6:03Nancy Glass?

  And then, on that Wednesday night in Hawaii, Cyndi and Kenny got engaged.

• 6:09Speaker 07

  We were at a luau, and it was a conversation. It wasn't super romantic. It was like, it's time, right? We're going to have a celebration, invite some friends, and go do this.

• 6:22Nancy Glass?

  So they're in Hawaii, really happy and celebrating. And in the meantime, they have no idea that something really bad is happening at home in Steamboat Springs. It involves Cyndi's three children and her ex-husband, Steve.

• 6:39Nancy Glass?

  What happened that week is very important to the story.

• 6:44Nancy Glass?

  The kids were staying with Steve, and on Sunday night, Cyndi called her kids on FaceTime to check in. At first, Cyndi spoke with her daughter, and then one of the twin boys.

• 6:57Speaker 05

  I said, hey, how was your weekend? Blah, blah, blah. Said it was great.

• 7:01Nancy Glass?

  That's when Cyndi's other twin boy then joined the call.

• 7:05Speaker 05

  And then my one son jumps on and goes, Kenny gave me a wedgie.

• 7:10Nancy Glass?

  You know what a wedgie is, right? It's when somebody forcefully pulls up another person's underwear. It's usually a joke.

• 7:18Speaker 05

  And then he was laughing about it. Ah, you gave me a wedgie. Ha, ha, ha.

• 7:22Speaker 07

  We're just like, what are you talking about? I didn't give you a wedgie. But he's jumping up and down, laughing and giggling like this is the biggest goofiest thing ever. And then he just kind of ran away. We're like, well, that was strange, you know, why he was making an accusation of a wedgie. And that was that.

• 7:40Nancy Glass?

  At the time, Cyndi's twin boys had just turned nine, and based on how he was laughing about it, Cyndi and Kenny didn't give it a second thought, except for one thing. Kenny said he never gave him a wedgie.

• 7:54Speaker 05

  He was fine. He didn't show any pain, nobody's crying, no, nothing. Nothing at all. And the kids aren't even talking about this so-called wedgie that happened, the other two.

• 8:05Nancy Glass?

  Did you give him a wedgie?

• 8:07Speaker 07

  No. No, I did not.

• 8:10Nancy Glass?

  Then things got worse. The following morning, Cyndi woke up to a message from her ex-husband, Steve.

• 8:17Speaker 05

  Steve's saying, my son was having some pain, severe pain, that he has to go to the pediatrician. His bottom hurts, and he's saying Kenny gave him a wedgie.

• 8:28Nancy Glass?

  That's when Cyndi followed up with her son's pediatrician, Dr. Fountain.

• 8:34Speaker 05

  I put a call in, I didn't get a call back until Tuesday, and it was from the nurse. And I said, what's going on here? And she goes, oh, well, you know, we had to report this wedgie because it made a mark. And I said, what wedgie? There was no wedgie. And she goes, well, it left a mark, and it's gone today. It healed. But we have to report it to DHS.

• 8:59Nancy Glass?

  Since a doctor is a mandated reporter, they're lawfully obligated to report suspected child abuse to the authorities. In the state of Colorado, that meant contacting DHS, the Department of Human Services, which investigates allegations of child abuse. That news definitely concerned Cyndi, but not the nurse.

• 9:21Speaker 05

  And she says, oh, I'm sure it'll be fine. He's very comfortable in your house. Feels safe. I wouldn't worry about it. It's just routine. This is just what we have to do. So it sounded more like protocol. So I let it go.

• 9:36Nancy Glass?

  Two days later, Cindy got another phone call. This time, it was from a caseworker at DHS named Kamala Hite. She informed Cindy that she was assigned to investigate the abuse allegation.

• 9:50Speaker 05

  And she said, well, we're just going to allow the kids to stay with the dad. Are you going to fight me on this? Or do I need to get a court order? And I was like, okay, this is weird.

• 10:01Nancy Glass?

  Cindy didn't fight Kamala and agreed to let the kids stay with Steve. She also set up a meeting with Kamala for Monday morning, once she and Kenny were back in steamboat. Meanwhile, Cindy couldn't stop thinking about this weird wedgie story. By trade, she's a scientist. She has her master's degree in geology, spent a good chunk of her career in that field. So she's trained to look at all the facts before making a conclusion. So she started racking her brain for a possible explanation for her son's sore bottom. And that's when it hit her.

• 10:39Speaker 05

  He just got a brand new bike. Does anybody know? That he was riding his bike for two straight hours the day before his birthday?

• 10:46Nancy Glass?

  The day before Cindy and Kenny flew to Hawaii, they celebrated the twins' birthdays. And on that afternoon, the twins went swimming and then rode their new bikes for nearly two hours. So if her son was complaining about pain, Cindy figured his new bike had to be the reason.

• 11:06Speaker 05

  Anybody with common sense could understand that this was from bikes. Brand new bikes.

• 11:12Nancy Glass?

  And this was information that only she, Kenny, and the kids knew. Not Steve or the doctors.

• 11:18Speaker 05

  They didn't ask me about that. I bet you they don't know. And they're asking this tiny little nine-year-old kid to draw a cause and effect conclusion on his own body.

• 11:26Nancy Glass?

  Cindy figured a quick conversation with the doctor would get this all straightened out. But ultimately, it made things worse.

• 11:34Speaker 05

  I was so livid and angry that when I finally talked to the doctor on Friday, I said, are you wearing these bikes? That they just got bikes. And she goes, oh, my gosh, I wish I would have known that earlier when I made my report. I said, oh, I bet you do. And I hope you got a good attorney. Because someone's getting sued over this. You guys just disrupted and traumatized my kids when you could have made a five-minute phone call. I was livid. My initial reaction to that was not the best one.

• 12:01Nancy Glass?

  Maybe it wasn't the best one, but anyone has the right to get angry over what they consider to be a false accusation. Still, that threat and those words remain one of Cindy's biggest regrets.

• 12:14Speaker 05

  That was my biggest mistake. I should have stayed perfectly calm. And I think me just throwing out litigation as a threat just pushed everybody into freak-out threat mode, and they weren't going to help me at all after that.

• 12:29Nancy Glass?

  By Monday, Cindy and Kenny were back home. And that morning, they went to the DHS office and met with Kamala.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  I gave the bike information. And this is fairly obvious to me that this wedgie whole thing is being blown out of proportion. So the whole time, I'm thinking, okay, I've given these people on death information now about the bike and everything. This is going to blow over and be resolved.

• 12:52Nancy Glass?

  Cindy said she spent over two hours talking to Kamala. But she left feeling like it had been pointless because she didn't think Kamala was open to hearing her side of the story.

• 13:05Speaker 05

  I'm a scientist. I understand confirmation bias the moment I see it. I saw it in that woman within the first 10 minutes. And that's going to be very difficult to unwind at this point.

• 13:15Nancy Glass?

  When Kenny got his turn with Kamala, he felt like he was met with some resistance.

• 13:20Speaker 07

  Kamala looks at me, she goes, what are you doing here? I go, well, you asked me to come here. I said, this is supposed to be an interview with me and Cindy. And I was like, I'm next. And she goes, well, you're not supposed to be here. And I was like, again, you asked me to come here. And she goes, okay, okay, let's make this quick.

• 13:36Nancy Glass?

  And much like Cindy, Kenny left feeling like Kamala had her mind made up.

• 13:41Speaker 07

  This wasn't a conversation. It was a prosecution.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  And I said, look, I don't know what is going on here, but I'm getting a bad feeling from that interview. I'm sure this is just a misunderstanding, but why don't you go take the camper? Go back and pack up some stuff, take the dog, go camping. And he's like, good idea, because I don't know what the hell's going on here either.

• 14:08Nancy Glass?

  So Cindy went to pick up the kids from school. And the next morning, she had a conversation with her son, the one who said Kenny gave him a wedgie.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  There was no wedgie. He said, I just assumed it must be a wedgie that I was playing and I got a wedgie because that's the only thing I could think of that would cause the pain on where I had the pain. He said something to the effect, he goes, Mom, remember? And he couldn't say the word hypothesize.

• 14:37Speaker 05

  Right? So he goes, well, you told me, you know, that hypothesize. And I'm like, oh, okay, you're thinking about the things it could possibly be. And he goes, yeah, that's what I was doing. And I said, so nobody knew about the bikes? And he goes, no, because I never talked about them. I said, I'm going to go grab your bike. We're going to do a little experiment. And so I grabbed the bike, which was down in storage, brought it up to the condo. He jumped on it. I'm like, is that where it hurt? And he goes, yeah, exactly. I said, okay, mystery solved.

• 15:09Nancy Glass?

  Not only that, but he also said he was wearing a pair of board shorts that day and no underwear.

• 15:16Speaker 05

  I even said to him, I said, do you understand why people wear underwear? And he thought it was because if you have an accident. And I said, no, honey, everybody wears underwear for this specific reason. And so I couldn't believe the entire group of adults are following a nine-year-old's mentality of cause and effect. You know, rather than asking all the pertinent questions that they should have been.

• 15:42Nancy Glass?

  For Cindy, it was case closed. So she put her kids to bed and planned to share the news with Kenny. By then, she saw a series of missed calls from Kenny when she finally got a hold of him.

• 15:57Speaker 05

  I found out Kenny was arrested. And yeah, it was for a wedgie.

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• 18:47Nancy Glass?

  On the afternoon of September 30th, 2019, Kenny was home alone in the condo where he and Cindy lived. That's when Two Steamboat Springs Police Officers knocked on the door, and what they said next shocked him.

• 19:07Speaker 07

  So, Mr. Ham, right now, I need to go ahead and let you know that we do have a warrant for your arrest. Okay, so we need you to go ahead and turn around and place your hands behind your back. Okay, you are under arrest. The cops came to my house, and they knocked on the door and turned me in handcuffs, and they arrested me for a wedgie. 617 arrival at the jail, break friendly.

• 19:25Nancy Glass?

  The cops led Kenny down the hallway into the stairs of the condo building, and Kenny didn't say a word during the trip down seven flights. Once they got to the ground floor, the cops escorted Kenny past the restaurant, the place where he worked as general manager, the same place he first met Cindy and her three children. And while Kenny was being led out of the building in handcuffs, Cindy, knowing nothing, was picking up her kids from school.

• 19:56Speaker 07

  All right, go ahead and have a seat. I know it's tight fits. You may have to sit sideways. I was literally scared for my life. I didn't know how to act or what to do. I just knew how to sit there, hold my fingers, and be respectful. Mr. Ham, you can go ahead and step out.

• 20:17Nancy Glass?

  And after being booked and fingerprinted, Kenny was placed in a holding cell.

• 20:22Speaker 07

  I'm in jail, and they confiscated my phone. I went through my phone.

• 20:27Nancy Glass?

  Kenny's phone was seized and booked into evidence, and then, hours later, Kenny got a visitor.

• 20:34Speaker 07

  Mr. Ham? Yes, sir. Hey, I'm a detective with the Seattle Police Department.

• 20:40Nancy Glass?

  A young detective named Jordan Cypher's introduced himself to Kenny.

• 20:44Speaker 07

  Hey, I was wondering if you were willing to talk to me or not?

• 20:48Nancy Glass?

  Detective Cypher's was investigating Kenny for abusing one of Cindy's nine-year-old boys. According to Kenny's arrest warrant, Detective Cypher's had been employed by the Steamboat Springs Police Department since 2014, meaning he had been there for five years.

• 21:05Speaker 07

  The detective comes in, you know, I was like, hey, uh, here to have an interview with you. I was like, I was happy to talk to you guys yesterday, but now that you guys arrested me, no, I'm not talking anymore. I said, you'll have to talk to my attorney now. Okay, I'll leave a business card on your property, then reach out whenever you're whenever you're. Thanks.

• 21:24Nancy Glass?

  From start to finish, Kenny's conversation with Detective Cypher's lasted less than a minute.

• 21:31Speaker 07

  I didn't ask a single question.

• 21:33Nancy Glass?

  Kenny learned his arraignment wouldn't happen until the following afternoon. That meant he'd be spending the night in jail.

• 21:40Speaker 07

  I'm just kind of sitting, biding my time in that jail cell with, I think, four or five other guys, sleeping on the ground next to a toilet, literally, sleeping on the ground next to a toilet. A court-appointed attorney came in. She was like, I'm here to represent you. And I was like, no, no, no.

• 21:59Nancy Glass?

  Kenny kindly refused. He wanted his own lawyer.

• 22:03Speaker 07

  Literally, I don't trust anybody, not even someone that says they're there to represent me.

• 22:08Nancy Glass?

  Kenny didn't have a record of any kind. He'd never been arrested before, not even a parking ticket. His mind went back to when he was a kid, and how if he ever got into trouble, his first call would be to his dad.

• 22:21Speaker 07

  His first thing he always said was, is everybody all right? And I'm like, yep. And he goes, okay, no problem. I'll be right there. I'll help you out.

• 22:29Nancy Glass?

  At the time of his arrest, Kenny was 46 years old. He wasn't about to call his dad. He had been waiting to call Cindy.

• 22:37Speaker 07

  I got my first phone call, maybe six, seven o'clock.

• 22:43Nancy Glass?

  As Kenny dialed Cindy's number, he couldn't help but think that just a few days earlier, he and Cindy were walking on the beach in Hawaii. They had just gotten engaged. They were planning to move into their new home with the kids. Everything seemed golden, and now, here he was, making a collect call to his fiancee from the county jail.

• 23:04Speaker 07

  I thought it was a nightmare. This isn't happening to me. This is not reality.

• 23:13Nancy Glass?

  That afternoon, Cindy went to pick up her kids from school, and she was under the impression that Kenny was taking the camper and leaving town for a couple of days.

• 23:21Speaker 07

  She didn't know I was in jail until that night.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Once I pick up my kids, I turn my phone off, because I want to be totally present for my kids. I don't want any interruptions. So, I start making dinner, and there's homework, and everything going on. So, I would have been in bed probably about 9:00 to 9:30, and all of a sudden, I look at my phone, and it had been blowing up.

• 23:43Nancy Glass?

  There were a bunch of missed calls from unknown numbers. She listened to her voicemail.

• 23:48Speaker 05

  And it was a click call from the jail. I'm like, oh, my God.

• 23:53Nancy Glass?

  Cindy frantically tried to figure out how to get in touch with Kenny, but trying to get through to the jail wasn't easy.

• 24:01Speaker 07

  She called the jail about 11:30 at night. That's when it first got a talk.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  And he got on, and he goes, I don't know what the hell is going on here, but they won't tell me. Turns out, this is all about a wedgie. My son said Kenny gave him a wedgie.

• 24:19Nancy Glass?

  According to police documents, Detective Cypher's wrote, "I learned that Cindy's boyfriend Kenny had given him a wedgie."

• 24:28Speaker 05

  They went and handcuffed him, and then put him in jail for the night for a misdemeanor wedgie. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous.

• 24:35Speaker 07

  She was pissed. She was pissed off. She couldn't believe I was in jail.

• 24:41Nancy Glass?

  Equally surprising was that, according to police documents, Kenny's arrest warrant was issued four days earlier while Cindy and Kenny were still in Hawaii, meaning the police hadn't even waited to speak to them before issuing a warrant. It indicated the detective's strong belief that something horrible had happened. Cindy was furious. She wondered how a story about her son getting a wedgie led to an arrest warrant. She was racking her brain about why, and then it occurred to her.

• 25:17Speaker 05

  We had a mediated divorce. It only got ugly when Steve decided to hire his own attorney, and then it got nasty. He said, I'm never going to allow you to leave the marriage, and I'm not going to allow you to take my kids from me.

• 25:33Nancy Glass?

  And there was something else, that $10.5 million settlement, the one Steve and another former colleague had to pay Cindy, and the timing of that settlement. According to court documents, that money was paid out shortly before their trip to Hawaii.

• 25:51Speaker 05

  I had just gotten the money. I think that was the trigger for him.

• 25:56Nancy Glass?

  In fact, Cindy said just before she and Kenny left for Hawaii, they had dinner with her lawyer, who worked the fraud case, and afterwards, her lawyer told her.

• 26:06Speaker 05

  He goes, watch out for Steve, because he's going to come after you somehow. I just feel it.

• 26:14Nancy Glass?

  With her lawyer's words echoing in her head, Cindy got to work.

• 26:19Speaker 07

  She was going into mama bear time of, now we're getting lawyers, and now we're starting to defend ourselves. But you know what? Once accusations are going to be in the court system, it's too late. It's way too late.

• 26:31Nancy Glass?

  While Kenny sat in jail, awaiting his arraignment, Cindy was working the phones.

• 26:36Speaker 05

  I was up all night. I was up all night long. I remember contacting an attorney at 4:00 AM.

• 26:44Nancy Glass?

  To take care of the arraignment, I mean, I didn't sleep at all.

• 26:51Nancy Glass?

  The following afternoon, Cindy walked into Kenny's arraignment, and she wasn't alone in the courtroom. Across the aisle sat her ex-husband Steve. He was joined by his wife, Christine, and Steve's mother, Alita, and their behavior wasn't what you'd expect from the family of an assault victim.

• 27:11Nancy Glass?

  They were just kind of, um, you know, they just seemed to be enjoying it. It was like a good show for them. When Kenny's name was called, he faced one misdemeanor count of child abuse. In the state of Colorado, that's typically punishable with up to 364 days in jail and/or a $1,000 fine. He entered his plea not guilty.

• 27:35Speaker 07

  My attorney goes, Judge, this guy's being charged a misdemeanor for a wedgie. Yeah, we're here over a wedgie. That's what he got arrested for. And the judge was almost snickering in the background, kind of laughing on how comical this was. The judge just starts shaking his head, and he goes, no bond, out you go, bye-bye.

• 27:55Nancy Glass?

  As quickly as it began, Kenny's arraignment was over.

• 27:59Speaker 07

  I was released on my own recognizance. I didn't even have to give bail. That's why I was like, this is gonna be taken care of. This is kind of a joke.

• 28:07Nancy Glass?

  Kenny was released. His nightmare was over, except that it wasn't.

• 28:13Speaker 07

  I didn't realize the temperature of what I was gonna be facing.

• 28:22Nancy Glass?

  Like Cindy, Kenny believed everything would get straightened out, that whatever mess they walked into after their Hawaiian vacation would easily get cleaned up. But they were both wrong. As the arraignment ended, Kenny remembers his lawyer's lighthearted demeanor completely changed.

• 28:42Speaker 07

  He was like, no, this is not a joke. And he goes, they are coming after you, Kenny. They're gonna try and up this to a felony for something.

• 28:51Nancy Glass?

  The wedgie was just the beginning. Far more serious allegations were coming. And as Kenny was escorted out of the jail, things started to get scary.

• 29:02Speaker 07

  So they took me out the back door out of the jail when I was released. And the guard, he goes, well, I'm gonna have these deputies follow you out for your security.

• 29:13Speaker 07

  That scared the hell out of me, that they were there to protect me. I was like, well, who are you here to protect me from? Circling around the town was, I was a pedophile. You know what happens to a pedophile in jail? They're gonna kill you.

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• 31:45Speaker 03

  She'd throw things, wander, and started hoarding. Mom's Alzheimer's was already so hard, but then we found out she had agitation that may happen with dementia due to Alzheimer's disease. And that was a different kind of difficult. So we asked her doctor for more help.

• 32:00Speaker 04

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• 32:35Speaker 03

  I'm glad I asked for help.

• 32:37Speaker 04

  Ask your loved one's doctor about Rexulti.

• 32:49Nancy Glass?

  Kenny walked out of jail on the afternoon of October 1st, 2019. It was news Cindy's friend, Mandalyn, could not believe.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  Cindy called and told me, they've arrested Kenny. And I asked for what? And she said, well, they're still investigating, but she said something about a wedgie, something about he had some marks down there when Steve had taken him to the doctor.

• 33:18Nancy Glass?

  Kenny was charged with a misdemeanor for giving Cindy's nine-year-old son a wedgie, something Kenny claims never happened.

• 33:27Speaker 03

  I heard something about a wedgie, and I'm just like, I could totally like see Kenny playing with him and throwing him around in the pool and 100 wedgies happening, you know? And I thought, what's going on? She said she couldn't really talk about it until they can investigate, and so we just kind of waited to see what was gonna happen.

• 33:52Nancy Glass?

  According to the police report, Cindy's nine-year-old son claimed he was watching the movie Rango when Kenny gave him a, quote, "huge wedgie." The report states that this left him with an abrasion on his bottom. That's why it became a misdemeanor child abuse charge, because Steve's story was that his son was injured and it all started when Kenny was roughhousing with him. And then, that initial allegation became something much darker.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Are they claiming that he molested them? Or is this wedgie? Like, I was just shocked. When I met Kenny, I was like, I like this guy. My kids have always been comfortable around him. And I said, let the police do their investigation. You know, if they don't find anything, they can't go after him. If there's nothing to find, there's nothing to find.

• 34:49Nancy Glass?

  Within a few days, the story had progressed. Cindy's ex-husband Steve would soon be back at the police station because he wasn't convinced that the injury was accidental. He began telling the police that he suspected Kenny sexually abused his son. Here's Mandalyn again.

• 35:08Speaker 03

  I just don't think Kenny could have done that. I mean, obviously, I didn't live with Kenny. I wasn't around him all the time. But there's intuitions that you get of people that are creepy. You don't get that with Kenny at all.

• 35:25Nancy Glass?

  Cindy's stepsister Lisa had a similar reaction. Cindy told me point-blank what the allegation was, and we were just like, what if? Just because you do have to be rational about it. And then it right away, it's like, no, uh-uh. Not, not possible. I mean, just knowing the person Kenny is, he loved those boys and it just wasn't true. Cindy and Kenny contend that there was no wedgie and absolutely no sexual abuse. They believe whatever pain the boy was experiencing occurred after riding his brand new bike.

• 36:10Nancy Glass?

  While the Steamboat Springs Police and DHS conducted their respective investigations, news of Kenny's arrest quickly spread. Before long, it seemed like the entire small town had turned against Cindy and Kenny. And if you ask Kenny, he knows exactly when it happened.

• 36:30Speaker 07

  Coincidentally, right when I was arrested, they held a how to spot a predator kind of meeting.

• 36:36Nancy Glass?

  This community workshop called Parenting Safe Children took place about six weeks after Kenny's arrest. It was organized by the school that Cindy's children attended. According to the organizer, the workshop's objective was to help parents identify what makes children vulnerable to sexual assault. The school is creating this class of how to spot a sexual predator. And I think like 80 people from the community showed up. Like, oh my God, this has really shifted in a way I didn't expect. All the parents at the kids' school got an invitation to this workshop, except for two people, Cindy and Kenny.

• 37:20Speaker 07

  I never received that invite to this predators program. Everybody else did.

• 37:25Nancy Glass?

  It's worth noting that in the months leading up to Kenny's arrest, Cindy's ex-husband Steve was a member of the school's board. After Kenny's arrest, Cindy said the people she considered her friends very quickly distanced themselves from her. Word had gotten out around town, and in the game of telephone, it wasn't about a wedgie anymore. The rumor was Kenny sexually abused one of the boys. All of a sudden, they start making accusations about Kenny being a sexual predator and a pedophile. I said, I beg your pardon? Even though we've been friends for years, I could not get them to change their mind. No matter what I said to them, they weren't changing their minds.

• 38:07Nancy Glass?

  People assume you're guilty if you're accused. One now former friend even questioned why Cindy ditched her ex-husband Steve in the first place. She starts saying, you know, I wish you would have stayed with Steve. Kenny's the bad person here. You need to get rid of him. As all this was happening, Cindy and Kenny could have separated, but they didn't. Kenny was adamant he didn't abuse her son, and she believed him. I can guarantee you this is coming from Steve. What he's trying to do is wear me down. He wanted those kids before Kenny. He wanted full control over these kids before Kenny was involved. So it's not Kenny that's the problem.

• 38:52Nancy Glass?

  Kenny became the collateral damage.

• 39:00Nancy Glass?

  This all left one big question. Why would a doctor and a police detective take this allegation so seriously? I mean, it was over a wedgie. Well, let's start with the doctor's findings. If you remember, while Cindy and Kenny were in Hawaii, Steve took his son to see his pediatrician, Dr. Fountain. Steve's wife Christine was at this appointment as well. We had a voice actor read Dr. Fountain's notes pulled from court transcripts. As a reminder, we won't use the boy's name.

• 39:36Speaker 03

  The patient said he had pain in his booty. His explanation for this discomfort? His mom's boyfriend playfully gave him a hard wedgie on Sunday, eight days ago. He said he was not wearing underwear, just his athletic shorts, and the boyfriend yanked the shorts hard. He has also told his dad that he had a dream that someone held him down and pried his butt cheeks apart.

• 39:59Nancy Glass?

  For reference, Dr. Fountain saw the boy twice that day.

• 40:04Speaker 03

  The patient came back to dad's house on Friday, three days ago. He had been with mom for a week. They flew to Las Vegas for the weekend. Father of child was concerned because his son seemed not himself, unusual anger and outbursts. Father of the child checked his son's bottom, and he said it was red with an abrasion. He did not see bruising. The boy has had a hard time sitting and being comfortable.

• 40:29Nancy Glass?

  Dr. Fountain added that the boy had told his grandmother that his bottom was hurting and stinging. She wrote that Steve took pictures of his redness and brought them in that day. Ultimately, Dr. Fountain gave the boy what's known as a differential diagnosis, meaning possible scenarios that could explain the boy's injury.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  The first was a focal abrasion from mild trauma or the wedgie.

• 40:58Nancy Glass?

  To clarify, focal means small, and an abrasion is superficial.

• 41:04Speaker 03

  Second was chronic constipation with leakage, which can cause an abrasion because stool is acidic. And third was sexual abuse.

• 41:14Nancy Glass?

  It's important to note that during that office visit, Dr. Fountain did not see any injury to the boy. She relied on the photos Steve showed her to make her differential diagnosis. She added that she interviewed the boy alone. Here's what she wrote.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  He continues to support the story of a hard wedgie. He says he feels safe at dad's house, and he feels safe at mom's house.

• 41:39Nancy Glass?

  Dr. Fountain wrote that the boy was pleasant and cooperative during both visits. Dr. Fountain ordered an X-ray. That X-ray revealed that the boy was constipated. She also ordered sexually transmitted infection tests, and those came back negative. The boy was also referred to get a SANE exam. A SANE exam stands for Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner. It's a comprehensive exam performed by a specially trained nurse when there's been either a disclosure or suspicion of sexual assault. That exam happened on Wednesday. The next day, Cindy's ex-husband Steve and his wife Christine met with Detective Jordan Cypher

• 42:23Nancy Glass?

  of the Steamboat Springs Police Department. That interview was recorded.

• 42:30Speaker 07

  Thanks for coming back in.

• 42:32Nancy Glass?

  Now Cindy and Kenny were still in Hawaii and had no idea this was even happening.

• 42:40Speaker 07

  I'm a reasonable person. I know what is in the best interest of these kids. I really do. I'm not an expert, but I know my kids.

• 42:47Nancy Glass?

  That's the voice of the boy's father, Steve.

• 42:50Speaker 07

  I don't think that Kenny's safe, and I don't think that mom's necessarily safe.

• 42:54Nancy Glass?

  And here's Steve's wife, Christine. Like, I'm a little bit in shock. Like, I didn't know that it was this serious. I didn't know that it could have been this serious. I just believed he had a bad wedgie, and it was just that simple. Detective Cypher took notes as Steve spoke about the appointment his son just had with the sexual assault nurse. It's an invasive exam. It involves a thorough head-to-toe examination, evidence collection, and photographs of injuries. The nurse's report wasn't available yet, but Steve filled the detective in on what the nurse told him.

• 43:30Speaker 07

  She said the pictures are what had her concerned, that there was just a lot of things there that were questionable. And I just, you know, I ask her the same thing I ask you guys. I'm like, just take off your nurse hat for a moment, right? And just talk to me as a parent. What do you think? She's like, yeah. She goes, there's something. She said, I can't prove it, and I don't know what it is. But she's like, that ain't a wedgie.

• 43:53Nancy Glass?

  On the next episode of Burden of Guilt.

• 43:56Speaker 07

  What needs to be justice for these kids? We're not like laying in the weeds, but we kind of are, you know? I don't want to do this, but we don't have a choice. When a child speaks, you need to listen. You need to really hear this. She could take these kids around.

• 44:12Nancy Glass?

  She's that stupid. I hope this is an opportunity to raise the bar and to get Cindy to behave. That's next time on Burden of Guilt.

• 44:44Nancy Glass?

  Thanks for listening. If you're enjoying Burden of Guilt, subscribe, rate, and review the series with five stars, hopefully. That helps other people find our show. Are you curious about what the people involved in this look like? Do you want to hear bonus content? Just check out our Instagram account at Glass Podcasts. You can reach out to the Burden of Guilt team at [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Burden of Guilt is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

• 45:26Nancy Glass?

  This series is executive produced and hosted by me, Nancy Glass, produced by Todd Gans, also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Additional production support provided by Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique LaBord. Our associate producer is Jade Abdul Malik. Our production manager is Kristin Milkeri. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krychek. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Audio mixing and mastering by Anna McLean and Matt Del Vecchio. The Burden of Guilt theme is composed by Oliver Baines.

• 46:07Nancy Glass?

  Music library provided by MyB Music. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart Radio app or Apple Podcasts.

• 47:34Speaker 01

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