Russia Bombs Civilians in the Sumy Region in Ukraine | EYES ON GEOPOLITICS

THE BOYS TALK ABOUT THE SUMY BOMBING, HOW TARIFFS ARE CHANGING THE GLOBAL ORDER, AND THE START OF NEDGOTIATIONS WITH IRAN OVER THEIR NUCLEAR PROGRAM IN OMAN. New merch, patches, and stickers! ⬇️ https://theteamhouse-shop.fourthwall.com Support the show on Patreon:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Find Mick Mulroy here: Fogbow ⬇️ https://fogbow.com/ Lobo Institute ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/ Twitter ⬇️ https://x.com/mickmulroy?s=21&t=-Ze3F_Ix2vlJ18KFvORTCA LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-patrick-mulroy-31198b52/ Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/mickmulroy.bsky.social Mick’s publications ⬇️ https://www.loboinstitute.org/publications/publications-of-michael-mick-patrick-mulroy/ Find Andy Milburn here: Twitter ⬇️ https://twitter.com/i/flow/login?redirect_after_login=%2Fandymilburn8 LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewmilburn2023 Substack ⬇️ https://amilburn.substack.com/ Andy’s book ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/When-Tempest-Gathers-Mogadishu-Operations Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/andy-milburn.bsky.social Find Jason Lyons here: LinkedIn ⬇️ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-lyons-666873316?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app Bluesky ⬇️ https://bsky.app/profile/bgsilverback73.bsky.soci Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

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• 2:07Speaker 03

  Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Eyes on Geopolitics. I'm here with the full crew today, Mick Mulroy, Jason Lyons, Andy Milburn, and myself, Dimitri Kontakos. Lot cooking as usual. First and foremost, just broke probably an hour or so ago, the Russians hit the Sumy region in Ukraine. I think that they said upwards of 30 plus people killed, civilians. It was a civilian target. You know, just seeing the videos coming out of there now on Twitter and everywhere else, it's pretty heinous. A bunch of American, you know, General Kellogg,

• 2:48Speaker 03

  the ambassador to Ukraine, all came out with like statements, you know, and support and stuff like that. They are getting a bunch of pushback, obviously, from the masses on Twitter. Let's start with Andy. Andy, what do you, what do you got for this?

• 3:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, actually, I'm very familiar with Sumy. Richie is from there, as a matter of fact.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  Shout out to Richie.

• 3:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, he's, it's a, that's my dog, by the way, for those of your audience who haven't been following us.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  OG's listeners know about Richie, yeah.

• 3:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's more famous than I am. He was on the cover of the New York Times, by the way. So, he's, but anyway, he's now, he's now living in Florida. He, he has full citizenship, so no danger of being deported. But on a serious note, yeah, Sumy is, it's a town about 20 miles from the Russian border in northeastern Ukraine. This particular attack, and I mean, it's no surprise to me at all, you know, having...

• 3:59Speaker 04

  Spent almost year and a half in Ukraine from the beginning of the war, Russian attacks, ballistic missile attacks, cruise missile attacks, drone attacks on cities are primarily, I mean, you can look this up statistically, are not aimed even at energy infrastructure. I mean, that is, that's one of their side targets, but they, they primarily target civilian centers. And this one was timed, obviously, for Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday is, it's the, for you, it's the weekend before Easter, and it's particularly a, a big time in Ukraine.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  It's a, it's, it's a big deal for the Orthodox Church, and since the Russians and the Ukrainians share the much, not, not exactly the same church, but the Russian Orthodox Church is very popular in Ukraine too. The Russians know what a big deal it is for the Ukrainian population, that the, the streets are likely to be packed at that particular time, which was church time, about six hours ago, six, seven hours ago is when this occurred. So, no, no real surprises. Just a reminder, you know, the, in, in light of the fact that we seem to be shifting towards an apparent friendship with Russia, we as a nation, that

• 5:23Speaker 04

  the Russians are, no, no business being our friends. And, and again, you know, again, this is statistically backed up. If you look at ever since that disastrous meeting with Zelensky in the Oval Office, Russian, Ukrainian casualties, civilian casualties have, have mounted. You know, the Russians are making determined attempt to hit Ukrainian cities, knowing that probably that they're going to be vilified less in, in light of the new, new US stance on Russia. And of course, some of you may know that Russia and Belarus were the two global exemptions from US tariffs, which...

• 6:07Speaker 04

  Again, seems to be quite extraordinary. So yeah, just, you know, I, I think, I, I mean, as we're looking for silver linings again, there's no silver lining for thirty civilian dead, including children. And as a reminder, this time last week, they hit, the Russians hit Crevey Rick, another town. Uh, and they, they dropped a cruise missile in the middle of a, a playground, whether or not they were literally targeting that playground, who knows, but they killed a number of children. Uh, oh, I, you know, as I look though.

• 6:44Speaker 04

  At European reaction, I mean, this is simply solidifying what they already know that, that they, the Russia is the enemy. Uh, for, for those of you, not those of you, but those perhaps even in our audience who keep beating their chest and say, hey, it's a European war, they should step up to the plate, blah, blah, blah. Um, you know, I've already commented about ridiculous transactional approach to that. It's always, always been part of US strategy and implicit understanding that we, we pay more than perhaps our fair share financially.

• 7:22Speaker 04

  But Europe is the battleground. They pay in terms of blood for Russian aggression, and that has been the way since the Marshall Plan back in the late forties. It's an implicit understanding. And from the US point of view, it makes good sense with the richest nation on earth. Uh, but we are, perhaps we are certainly reluctant to, uh, to put our people in harm's way. And, uh, that's what the Europeans have been doing, will be doing. And again, that's, you know, that, that's the battleground. So that is all I have to say now. The, over to you guys.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  Just FYI, Andy, I am Greek Orthodox, so I understand what Palm Sunday is and what it means and stuff like that. And I'm here with you guys during Palm Sunday.

• 8:05Speaker 04

  I am. Always. Yeah. I, you know, I simply meant because I know you live in that, um, that, uh, that bed of inequity and heathenism known as Brooklyn. And so I didn't know that how far you'd stray from your Orthodox. But it's just a reminder.

• 8:24Speaker 03

  Pretty far, to be honest, but. I should be at church, though. I'm getting text messages like, are you coming? I'm, I'm not, guys. Sorry. Mick, what do you got?

• 8:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, so I certainly agree with all that. I think it really shows, this attack on Sumy really shows emphatically that the conciliatory complementary approach to Russia is not the way to go. They did not agree to a ceasefire, not only are they, and then they asked for specific carve-outs of ceasefire that benefits them like Black Sea and energy infrastructure, since the Ukrainians are being very successful at both of those areas. So it shouldn't be a carve-out, it should be a ceasefire. And you shouldn't have to carve out not committing war crimes as part of any carve-out of a ceasefire.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  That's obviously against the law. They specifically target civilian infrastructures and kill civilians, including children. So I don't know what we need to see to realize that not only are they not our friends, but we don't want them as our friends. You don't want President Putin and the people who would order these strikes as your friends. So yes, I do think we should pursue a ceasefire, but the way we're doing it with actually advocating for one side over our traditional historic partner, who is a democracy, who was the aggrieved party, is not the way to go. They launched these attacks before Special Envoy Witkoff left Russia.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  So that's, that is essentially laughing at you.

• 10:06Speaker 05

  It really is.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, no.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Sorry, sorry. No, go ahead, Mick. I was just, I was just gonna chime in, but.

• 10:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, so and then others, just some stats this morning that I was reviewing with a friend of mine. Over 100 missiles since this so-called ceasefire, not ceasefire, happened. Well over 2,000 drones, mostly from Iran and.

• 10:30Speaker 05

  And if you're following the fighting on the ground closely, about eighty percent of the casualties now are coming from drones. Okay, so Witkoff went what? He went from Moscow down to Oman to talk to the Iranians. So most of the casually producing effects on the battlefield right now are coming from the Shahid type drones. And then, you know, thousands and thousands of other munitions have been fired by Russia into Ukraine. Uh, to Annie's point, this idea that it's, you know, they're paying into this pot of NATO. What that is, is you pay a certain percentage, you're supposed to, of your GDP for your own defense. Right? So if if Europe spends more money uh, on their own defense collectively, uh, that's better for everybody, but it doesn't necessarily mean we get to spend less.

• 11:16Speaker 05

  In fact, we're we're hearing reports that we're going to go up to one trillion dollars at our own defense budget. So it's not tethered to um the GDP, uh, percentage of GDP that these countries pay for. And now they're going over that and exceeding it. So now's the time where we get the biggest benefit. And I do agree, they should have been doing it the whole time. But now they are. So we don't want to withdraw from the most significant military alliance in history at the time when it's actually the strongest. Right? When everybody's actually doing their part. That is not against the US uh, national security interests. We should build it, we should participate in it, and actually, we should lead it. Because that's what the US has historically done in the world, led the free world.

• 11:58Speaker 05

  Uh, not withdraw from it in in uh, in by the way, uh, in case you're wondering if you go to the Hill, because I do often, uh, there's very few people who would disagree with what I just said on either side of the aisle. When the cameras are off, everybody knows Russia's not our friend. Everybody that I know up there, uh, senators, representatives with very few exceptions. So I think we really need to focus on who's the enemy here and who's dragging who along and who's uh, and who's the the party that was actually the country that was actually invaded. And then really put Russia in a place where they have to come to the table because right now they

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• 14:35Speaker 05

  I don't see it. They don't see the, they don't see the benefit for them from the perspective of Russia. They think they can keep getting trained. They are very, you know, Donetsk Grecian. They're taking some, you know, they call them settlements or whatever they're terming a small village. But Ukraine is holding their own, and we need to essentially make it so Ukraine is improved in their military position and Russia by the opposite, so that they want to come with some ceasefire that's acceptable to the Ukrainian people. Is what I think. We should be pushing that as a way to get to the ceasefire. Compliments and you know capitulation are only going to make Russia less likely to sign

• 15:20Speaker 05

  anything significant and stick with it at all. And there does need to be a deployment of European forces to secure this ceasefire, or it's guaranteed that Russia will break it, just like they have every time in the past. That should be non-negotiable. And we should support it with air, because after all, it's a ceasefire, right? So if Russia doesn't intend to violate it, then what's the concern? Even Prime Minister Maloney from Italy, a very conservative Prime Minister, said that Russia shouldn't care about European deployment unless they intend to break the ceasefire. So we're a long way from where we need to be here, but the best way to get there is more support to Ukraine and start

• 16:04Speaker 05

  dictating the terms of a ceasefire once they start getting the upper hand.

• 16:10Speaker 04

  You know, this really exhibits again sometimes the fact that we don't even look at recent history. I mean, there's all this talk about Zelensky should step down. How about making it a term of a condition that Putin steps down?

• 16:24Speaker 05

  Right.

• 16:25Speaker 04

  You know, I mean.

• 16:26Speaker 05

  The guy who's not elected.

• 16:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, he's absolutely not elected. And history shows us from all this, do you remember all that ridiculous talk about a Russian reset way back under the Obama administration? And, you know, I mean, time and again, time and again, he has laughed at us when we've reached out a hand. He's doing it now. And you just have to look at the last 30 days, what Russia has done. I'm not talking about now about the missile attacks and the civilian targeting. I'm talking about their supposed concessions, right? They're saying, you know, that they want the, that they're willing to let, you know, their concession is to allow

• 17:08Speaker 04

  Ukrainians to export more from their Black Sea ports, where Ukrainians have already fought for and won that right by almost obliterating the Russian Black Sea Fleet, right?

• 17:21Speaker 05

  Yes, absolutely.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  With that approach. They already have that. You know, they don't need a Russian concession in order to do that.

• 17:29Speaker 05

  Right.

• 17:30Speaker 04

  And so.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  You know, all these things are just, it's a facade and. Very sad and it's very embarrassing to watch our negotiators just being, having circles run around them. And

• 17:48Speaker 04

  let's hope that the same doesn't happen, by the way, in these, with these talks now taking place in Oman with, with Iran.

• 17:57Speaker 09

  And I, I think something that is important, and it always has been important, is messaging on our part, you know. If, I think if we didn't have the incident like we have with President Zelensky in the Oval Office and everything. What happened, I believe it was two days ago, yesterday with Special Envoy Kellogg, where he, in an interview, some took what he was saying as that Ukraine post-war could be divided up Berlin-style between European zone and a Russian zone, and he had to go back and correct that. And I think if everything before this, our messaging before this had been steady and,

• 18:39Speaker 09

  you know, then that would have been just seen as a gaffe, but now it just adds to the Ukrainian people's, their, their outlook on us, you know, that's just one more thing. It's like, oh, are they really gonna do that? You know, divide us up like that? So I think messaging is just more important now than ever.

• 18:59Speaker 05

  Agreed. And it seems like Europe should be playing a much more substantial role in these negotiations.

• 19:03Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  Like if I was Ukraine, I'd say, hey, I mean, oh, are we even continuing our support to them? I'm not sure, but Ukraine is, in some cases, quadrupled their support. So maybe Europe needs to be the one that really leads the advocacy on the side of Ukraine, considering Ukraine's in Europe.

• 19:24Speaker 04

  I do know the, you know, for, to, to some of our discussions earlier about expenditure of, percentage of GDP expenditure on defense, Poland has stepped up to the plate with 4% expenditure. Poland is now a, a real leader within NATO. And, you know, we've already talked about Finland and Sweden joining ranks. And NATO is stronger than ever before. And so it's, you know, make to your point, it makes absolutely no sense at all to, to step away from NATO. You know, we're advocating leadership to To others and for those of us who've served in the military and fought for the United States in wars that were less productive, the bottom line is what I used to tell my Marines was, you

• 20:09Speaker 04

  know, in the end, we're fighting for American values. And as hokey that may sound, if you take that away and you tell me American values are simply about trade deficits and how much we can get other people to pay, contribute to defense, that seems a very, that seems a very shoddy thing to have, to risk your life for. And, you know, I think a lot of these, these people who are talking this way, just, just don't, don't understand that, that these things we pay, that we talk about. And again, values are not, it's, it's not just lip service.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  Yes, I think the Poles have saved Europe before, right? Battle of Vienna, can see Ottomans, somebody can back check me on that. But the Poles, yeah, they've totally stepped up. They like doubling the size of their army, literally doubling, not, not hyperbole.

• 21:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:08Speaker 04

  And, and extraordinary. And then if you, you know, if you read The High Side, right? Which is Jack and Sean Naylor, Jack Murphy and Sean Naylor's writing. And I know we can't really comment on this, but they'll, they'll talk about what Poland has been doing in Russia in the, you know, over the last few years, some pretty, pretty ballsy stuff. And, and I know that Green Berets thump their chest and talk long and long and endlessly about unconventional warfare. But when it comes down to it, have, I mean, not practiced it, right? It's all, it's except, I mean, very isolated incidents. I'm going to be lambasted

• 21:53Speaker 04

  for this, aren't I? But let's be honest. All right. It's, it's all very academic, except for, you know, back in 2001. But the Poles are actually doing this stuff. And so are the Ukrainians within Russia. And we should be learning from them.

• 22:10Speaker 04

  That itself is worth paying a little bit more for their defense, having them to, having them do that.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Yep, and my son's, he's deployed over there, as you guys know, he's in the security assistance group Ukraine. But he's, he's going with a lot, to a lot of places with his unit. And, uh, you know, although we're there to help train and do that, he's learning a lot from them because the, these folks have a different perspective when you're looking across your border and, uh, and you're seeing a very aggressive Russia who probably won't stop at Ukraine. Right? They're looking at this as, in many cases, inevitable. Not just something that they should be concerned about and prepare for, but in many cases, especially the military commanders are viewing this as inevitable, the conflict between

• 22:57Speaker 05

  Russia and the rest of Europe. And we need to start viewing that lest we be, you know, the appeasers of, of past that historians will scratch their heads about, uh, if we do it again.

• 23:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, 1938, Chamberlain, you know, coming back and announcing to the UK, it's peace in our time. You know, I, I've spoken to her, Hitler, and at heart, he is a reasonable man. In all of this, it just sounds familiar, doesn't it? And by the way, Mick, to your point, the Estonians had a considerable contingent in the Mozart group, and they were damn good. And these guys were Estonian military guys who, who officially or not officially, but kind of took leave of absence as sabbatical from their own military to come to Ukraine to contribute to the cause there. Some of them joined the Legion, some of them helped out with organizations like ours.

• 23:54Speaker 04

  And, you know, you talk to any of them and they will tell you with certainty that they feel that the Baltic's on their. And that is why, by the way, the Estonians have stepped up their 155 artillery production. I mean, I they haven't, I'm not saying they're putting all of their industry on war footing, but they are punching way above their weight when it comes to producing ammunition to support Ukraine. And with the intent, and and not only have they done that, but they're providing leadership within Europe, within NATO, and actually across Europe with the goal of of replacing the United States as a supplier of ammunition.

• 24:38Speaker 04

  By the way, the US never really did a good job at providing artillery ammunition because we we don't produce enough. We focused all our acquisition on platforms and things that are obsolete as soon as they're churned out. And we we forget that wars are, you know, lessons going back to the first world wars are won by production, not just the platforms, but munitions too.

• 25:02Speaker 04

  But the Estonians have realized that the UK from the beginning of the war have sent people out. You know, I don't know if they're working for MI6 or whether and that are official capacity, buying up stocks of 155 munitions across Europe and and in Turkey too, with the goal of supplying Ukraine.

• 25:29Speaker 04

  So no one can really accuse, you know, this this whole thing of, oh, Europe needs to really do more. Since the beginning of the war, Europe, European countries, certainly a collection of European countries have been doing a great deal for Ukraine. The the United Kingdom, Germany for the offensive in June of 23. I mean, first of all, the UK is training thousands of Ukrainian soldiers in the UK. And they emptied their shelves of all their breaching equipment, all their breaching vehicles, gave them to the Ukrainians for the for the 2023 offensive. Storm Shadow missiles that emptied them shell their shelves again for those things which are

• 26:12Speaker 04

  have been have proved invaluable while we were dicking around, you know, trying to decide whether we were going to give them attack and so not. And when we did, we piecemealed them out. The Brits and the, yes, and the French were the ones who were really giving the Ukrainians a long range, precision, strike capability.

• 26:32Speaker 03

  Are we still producing 155 rounds and giving them to Ukraine or no?

• 26:39Speaker 04

  Well, we're producing them. Not enough. I don't know. We

• 26:43Speaker 05

  That's a good question.

• 26:44Speaker 04

  You know, one thing we learned is that if we had gone to war, I mean, really gone to war, say, I don't know, over Taiwan. I mean, forget about all the other things we're talking about. We would have run out of artillery rounds very quickly.

• 26:59Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 27:00Speaker 05

  I know there was a, there was a a pipeline that was still going of support to Ukraine. I think it's still going.

• 27:08Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah, I know we have stepped up to 155 like in Scranton and I think Texas is another factor we have that's pumping out 155 rounds.

• 27:20Speaker 03

  But yeah, if you're your crainer, if you're the EU, you can't really rely on the US anymore. I mean, your future needs to be looking at like this needs to be a homegrown solution. An EU Ukrainian solution.

• 27:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, we are. We're still supporting. Okay. Yes, we, there was a brief pause.

• 27:46Speaker 05

  Yeah, so we're still supporting, which is good, and we need to just increase it.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  Uh, moving on. It's fair to say, it's fair to say that, you know, in the law, we, we have not been consistent in our support of Ukraine, not just under this administration, but the previous administration too, right?

• 28:02Speaker 05

  True. Yes.

• 28:04Speaker 04

  I mean, that was through

• 28:08Speaker 04

  Republicans in the, in the House. And it was not specifically, you know, it was about, it was about defense funding, right? But we held up supplying Ukraine for months. And, and you can draw a straight line correlation between that and increased Ukrainian casualties. So in fairness, we've already shown that we are not dependable partners in the world. And, you know, it's, I suppose it's going to take. I suppose it's going to take us repeatedly failing to back up upon this, um, which we have

• 28:51Speaker 04

  done since, you know, since running out on the Kurds in 2017, um, the debacle of Afghanistan and, and of course now, now Ukraine, um, and let alone the, the financial turmoil that the world is going through now. So I'm wondering, you know, I'm wondering at what stage we do, I'll, I'll read the reservoir of, of trust and the reputation that the United States has established as defender of the free world does as a, you know, a bastion of all these values that we've talked about. I, I would be surprised if that hasn't already been whittled down to nothing.

• 29:32Speaker 05

  So we, the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative has allocated 32 billion since 2022 and it's about to run dry. So that was the, what I was confused on. Uh, so a lot of the, the equipment that they're getting now was, was authorized some time ago. And once it's over, that's the question of whether we're gonna continue to do that, which obviously everybody on this show advocates for us to do so. But it's probably going to be, it need to be increased alongside with the increases of Europe. That would put Ukraine in a better position and make the ceasefire much less, much more likely.

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Yeah. So we've been talking about, I, I mean, we were going to hit on Iran in the Oman talks, but I want to talk about tariffs just because there's like a, it feels like there's like a global reordering of like who's, who's buds with who now, especially with the tariffs, uh, tariffs on China at like 145% as of right now. I mean, it's up to, at some point it's going to change for sure. There was some word today that they're going to exempt electronics and, uh, other things. Um, but you see China cozying up with the EU. There's talk about China and the EU talking, um, electric cars from China to be imported to the EU. China also, uh, Xi Jinping is planning like a Asian tour, gonna go to like different countries

• 30:54Speaker 03

  in Asia who are historically our allies. Um, and we're cozying up with Russia.

• 31:01Speaker 03

  And talking about annexing Greenland, like it's this weird like shakeup, like you just mix it all. It's like a game of Risk. You just mix it up and like whatever ends up happening, happening like with terms of allies. So it's. Mick, what are your thoughts on like this global reshuffle?

• 31:18Speaker 05

  Sure. And one more point on Ukraine before I jump to that. They are looking to purchase fifty billion dollars worth of US weapons and munitions. So that would be the biggest purchase in history. So that's very advantageous to the US. And I believe they're purchasing it with money that was provided to them by Europe. So on the tariffs, I mean, we talked about this last week. I'm not an economist or a financial analyst.

• 31:46Speaker 05

  I think you really have to look at what I don't understand. So I'm going to form this and and pose this in the form of a question is what's our, what is our intent here? Right? So if it's to bring home jobs, okay, we have a really low unemployment rate. We have probably more jobs or close to the amount of jobs open than we have people that are unemployed. And a lot of the jobs that would come

• 32:10Speaker 05

  are jobs that I think Americans would want. I think putting in China to assemble a iPhone, they get paid five hundred dollars a month. Right? So I don't think those are the kind of jobs Americans would even consider. And of course, if they did consider it, they would get paid a lot more than five hundred dollars a month, which would mean this would be about a three thousand to four thousand dollar phone. Right? So so maybe that's not the case. Are we trying to bring manufacturing home? Okay, I do think we should make more things here just from a security perspective. But if we make deals with everybody and then end up lowering all the tariffs, it'll take away all the incentives to onshore, the very manufacturing that we're talking, we say we want. So I'm confused about that.

• 32:53Speaker 05

  And nobody's going to invest the billions of dollars not knowing whether all the tariffs are going to be gone tomorrow, since we're going back and forth with it, or that there's going to be another person in the Oval Office in three and a half years before we even get done with our plan. And then, of course, the whole automate, optimization of plants. So I'm confused about that. So to your point specifically, Dee, when it comes to China. I think they have been ripping us off substantially for many, many years. Most people do in the intelligence community. I think we should have a joint, some kind of joint task force between the FBI and the CIA to really go after them like

• 33:34Speaker 05

  full throttle to start throwing people out of the country to start looking at student visas for what the Chinese, you know, intelligence services look at them for as huge opportunities to steal our intellectual property. I think they should do a lot more against China. But we should have done it with the cooperation of our historic allies, right? So we've picked the tariff war, trade war with everybody. And now you've got, to your point, the China's talking to Japan. They're talking to South Korea. They're talking to Europe. What if they all gang up on us? We could have had the opposite. We could have essentially gone to our

• 34:14Speaker 05

  treated allies, right? These are treated allies. These aren't just partners and then gone and taken, token down China with a lot of clout. So I, I just don't understand it. Somebody told me yesterday that this is really a, and maybe somebody in our audience knows this better, but a way to eliminate the income tax by using tariffs as the primary source of governmental revenue. So like, almost like a, a end around to do the fair tax plan, if you're familiar with that from, uh, I mean, if that's the case, I mean, it'd probably be best if they just explain it so people understand the plan. I don't know that they could do that, but at least I would understand the purpose.

• 34:55Speaker 05

  But anyway, so I think, and then of course, on top of that, if we would have gone with our traditional allies, historic allies, our allies against China, I think we would have had a better opportunity. If we actually decouple from China.

• 35:10Speaker 05

  The chances of a conflict over Taiwan go up substantially. Right? That's one of the biggest governing factors of China, restricted factors, in other words, of them taking the military step to, uh, you know, to invade and and take over Taiwan is because that would have, say, serious ramifications potentially on their economic well-being, unless they're already decoupled from the United States. So this is, this also goes up. And I'm not saying that that means we don't do anything in China. I am a big advocate for doing a lot more against China. It just seems like there's a better way to go about it.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  The one, uh, not only that, Mick, but I'm disturbed to see, I'm disturbed to see people who should know better talking about the fact or almost saying as much that we would not go to war over Taiwan. All right, let me, let me just explain this because it's not, it's not a very straightforward concept. It is true that I think that it's unlikely that we would go to war over Taiwan. But the point is you don't admit that, right?

• 36:32Speaker 05

  Right.

• 36:32Speaker 04

  The, the whole point, ambiguity was that you want the Chinese to keep guessing. You don't start saying publicly, hey, we're not going to go to war over Taiwan. I mean, that is another gift

• 36:46Speaker 04

  to, we've already given Xi, Chinese Premier, we've already given him enough gifts with the whole terror thing and by alienating most of the world. And now, and now we're telling him, by the way, if you scarf up Taiwan, we're not going to do anything about it, despite the fact that our military uses, or certainly in the record, China as a pacing threat and our acquisition programs and our training are all geared to taking on China as a near peer competitor. And the only, the only real

• 37:26Speaker 04

  realistic place where that might happen would be over the defense of Taiwan, perhaps more more realistically, the, um, uh, to

• 37:39Speaker 04

  To preempt and then try and win back Taiwan after, you know, after a Chinese fait accompli. No, look, I know it's tremendously, it's a, it's a very, I won't say impossible, but it's strategically, it is a really tough proposition. Politically, it's a tough proposition, you know, trying to justify expending US lives in the defense of Taiwan. But we don't, you know, to talk about.

• 38:13Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 38:28Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 38:39Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

• 38:43Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 38:50Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat, it's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart radio app today.

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• 40:09Speaker 04

  That openly, not just on Signal, but openly in the global forum is, to me, it just undermines everything that we that we have prepared for, should it come to a potential conflict with China.

• 40:31Speaker 05

  Ambiguity has been our policy there.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, right on.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  So Jason mentioned something about like the problem with the messaging with Ukraine. When it comes to Ukraine, there's a problem with the messaging from the administration when it comes to the tariffs as well. There's mixed messaging coming around all over the place. They are really just doing it, you know, by this, you know, they're doing it by the seat of their pants. They're just, there is no plan, Mick, to your, and I'm going to editorialize, so sorry, get over it. Not you guys, the rest of the people.

• 41:07Speaker 03

  There is no plan. There is no plan whatsoever, because if there was a plan to get rid of the income tax eventually, that I could see that being, you know, messaged and packaged to becoming a positive. It'd be like the people in the country would be like, oh, that's great, right? Like, you know, no income tax, like even the poorest of the poor, even though you're getting screwed over with the tariffs. Like, let's be real here. So there is absolutely no messaging going on. I think it's just Trump being Trump.

• 41:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's no 5D chess going on. At least I I don't think so.

• 41:44Speaker 09

  Yeah, I I'm trying to I I fully admit I don't understand all this stuff. Um, that's why I stay in my lane when it comes to the economics and stuff. But uh, one thing that I did see that's funny but not funny to me is that uh, you held up your iPhone before Mick and I was laughing because uh, Apple airlifted like 600 tons of iPhones from India to try to beat the tariffs and all I could think of was like bootleggers running moonshine, you know, during the prohibition. And that it's like, is this where we're at? You know, that shit is is hilarious to me, but it's scary at the same time.

• 42:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  Um, anything else on the tariffs and like the global reorder?

• 42:31Speaker 03

  Last thing, cool. So last but not least, uh, on Saturday, we had our delegation and the Iranian delegation in Oman to start talks and a potential nuclear deal.

• 42:46Speaker 03

  Steve Witkoff was leading that, which uh, doesn't really make me confident. Um, but Mick, what do you think about the talks in Oman?

• 42:58Speaker 05

  So I mean, if you go back to when we unilaterally withdrew 2018, the biggest uh, well, it was one of the arguments was that the the nuclear agreement from 2015 did not cover the proxy operations that Iran did, right? So supporting groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, many others. I thought it was a fair argument, wasn't a perfect agreement. Uh, but when we withdrew, I think to be fair, the proxy force operations and attacks went up substantially. So it did, we never did really address it. And now it looks like. We're willing to enter into something that looks similar to the 2015 JCPOA, at least

• 43:41Speaker 05

  from what's coming out of the comments of the people that were in a bond. So it's just about militarization of a nuclear program. It's not about getting rid of the nuclear program, which of course, you know, can be used for civilian energy. And there is no discussion on Iranian support to proxy forces, or they call their allies. So, okay, so I still think it's important that we get to an agreement that prevents Iran verifiably from getting a nuclear weapon. So I'm not critical of it. But if they end up back in 2015, there's going to be a lot, whoa, what was that all about? Because we could have

• 44:23Speaker 05

  been doing that the whole time. They are at about 60% enrichment. It can get quickly to 90, which is weapons grade. So that's the big concern. I don't think Israel is too happy about our negotiations here. They were the ones that pushed us to get out in 2018, pretty strong. We of course made our own decision. But I do think, you know, it is a better route forward, diplomatic route forward than necessarily military strikes, which I would not take off the table. I think if we have to, that is, that is an option. But I'd be, I think we need to be fair to say that it's not a, like, pull the trigger

• 45:05Speaker 05

  and it's all done. Right? I don't know how successful it would be. And I think if, once we start doing that, it's going to have to be like we used to call CT operations, mowing the lawn. We might have to keep doing it, doing it, doing it. Because Iran, and I do a lot of these foreign interviews with Iranians. So there, it's actually, I learn a lot listening to them, because they're obviously repeating what the regime says. They don't get to see whatever they want. If we take the strike, everybody that I've been on with says that Iran's going to go for a nuclear weapon. All out, like all out, no matter what they have to do, buy one, get one, build one in a

• 45:44Speaker 05

  secret facility, they will go all out. And I know that's partly his messaging, but we have to be just, I think, fair. Again, I'm not against that as an option, but it's not an option that's 100%. It could, it could into a massive regional conflict. The Iranians could

• 46:04Speaker 05

  see mine the Straits of Hormuz, for example, which would be incredibly difficult even for the US Navy to clear. And then commercial entities have to accept that it's clear and insurance companies and all that. It's, it's a, it is a place we don't want to necessarily go down. And I, trust me, our regional partners absolutely don't want to go down that route. So I, I do wish the folks that are in this negotiation well. And I think if we get something close to maybe an improved version of the 2015, then okay. And I would say like, just like the Department of Defense said back then is we'll just address the proxy forces separately. You know, but anyway, so wish them luck. It's a better path to go down than the military

• 46:48Speaker 05

  path. We should not take the military path off the table in summary. But we just have to accept that it's not as clear cut as we pull the trigger and this thing's over.

• 47:00Speaker 09

  I have a quick question. And I may, you may not know the answer to this, but I watched a video just before we came on where if he was a former senior defense intelligence official said that with Iran being at 60% enrichment, that it's only a matter of like two weeks before they can get to 90. Is that true?

• 47:21Speaker 05

  That's why I was close to those, close to that. Yes. And that's my knowledge from public, you know, reporting. It's, then they have to get the triggering mechanism.

• 47:31Speaker 09

  Yep.

• 47:32Speaker 05

  Right? So you have the amount of material, but I don't know, maybe they can purchase that from North Korea. I don't, the concern is that all this stuff could be sped up by contributions from North Korea or Russia. So and then delivery, yes, they have a ballistic missile program. That's why we're so concerned about it, but they could also put it on a Dow. They can put it on a, they can put it on, there's a lot of ways to deliver. It's, it's the excellent and, and we all know what'll happen, you know, the difference between Kim Jong-un and, uh, you know, Colonel Gaddafi. You know that. So there is, there is a actual incentive of countries to get acquire nuclear weapons, but it would trigger.

• 48:12Speaker 05

  You know, a race, a nuclear arms race in the Middle East. Saudi would get one, the Emirates, other countries. Uh, and then we'd have all these nuclear armed countries around the world, which isn't good for, you know, world stability and certainly not in our age.

• 48:29Speaker 05

  And, and Israel's going to take, they're not going to just sit there, right? So.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  I mean, you saw, you saw.

• 48:36Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:37Speaker 03

  They're gonna not look happy about like Trump saying, yeah, we're gonna meet up on Saturday and like, you know. So.

• 48:44Speaker 04

  The, the thing is.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  The thing is too, and I, you know, I, I'd be the first to say, I mean, credit to credit where credit's due the. These talks and they continue next Saturday, I know, but they, you know, they ended on a pragmatic note. And clearly both sides, both us and the Iranians are keen to avoid war in the Middle East. The fact that Whitkoff came clearly with, uh, the goal, well, not clearly, but it was, it came out during discussions. Apparently that the goal, you know, is not to close down Iran's nuclear program completely, but, uh, prevent. Iran from being able to produce nuclear weapon. And so that's a more pragmatic approach. I would like to see.

• 49:32Speaker 04

  Support for the Houthis rolled into the whole deal because that is, you know, that is immediate, uh, near term. Perhaps definitely a more contentious issue, you know, I, I recognize of course, I mean, that Iran is, we talked about 60% enrichment. It's relatively easy to break out to, to upgrade that to weapons.

• 49:58Speaker 04

  As Mick pointed out, the missing piece is the triggering mechanism and also the weaponization piece of being able to that combine that with a delivery system. So it's not quite as dire as it looks sometimes on

• 50:17Speaker 04

  for, you know, the Iranian nuclear program as far as imminency. However, what is of concern, you know, if you're looking at recent comments in open source in the media. And

• 50:34Speaker 04

  you know, they absolutely did. And let's just call them opinions, right? But they're informed opinions that actually the US is no longer in a position for a number of reasons where it could actually shut the program down. As Mick said, it would be mowing the grass and setting, setting the program back. And some experts have said by as little as six months. So the, the move ahead, the, the incremental raising of sanctions with Iran, you know, opening up to weapons inspections and signing agreements saying that they will not enrich uranium beyond the, you know, the current level. Those, those are definite positive steps and it benefits Iran to take a very incremental approach.

• 51:18Speaker 04

  You know, they, they want to see a deal that lasts and they want to see a commitment to lifting sanctions. So those are the two things that they want to get out of it. I would say from the US point of view, aside from

• 51:31Speaker 04

  from preventing Iran from being able to make a nuclear weapon. Yes, as we talked about, also curtailing their support for the Houthis would be a very useful outcome. And, you know, Netanyahu, it's always, you know, good to see him stymied. But, you know, the, the, if the Israelis, I think the Israelis had the ability to go after the nuclear, Iran's nuclear program, they would have done so. And I think, you know, he's probably hearing from his intelligence guys. Of course, the Israelis don't necessarily know what our capability is. But the Israelis, we talked about this a number of times. Yes, they've got, they've, they've overcome a number of obstacles that were in the way before, like being able, you know, the refueling piece.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  They wiped the table clean of Iranian, of really.

• 52:23Speaker 04

  The effectiveness of Iranian IADS, Integrated Air Defense Systems. But the program is possibly, probably now, I'm talking about the Iranian nuclear program buried so deep that even our bunker busters cannot reach them. That is a possibility. I'm just speculating here. That's all. And or they can, they can't guarantee, we cannot guarantee wiping the program out. That's, that's what I'm perhaps thinking. So anyway, positive signs, cautiously optimistic.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, Mick, I know. Do you have to take off? Yep, I gotta jump on. All right, get the hell out of here. So it's a pleasure. Give us a shout out on this show. I will, absolutely. Thanks, Mick. That's Mick Mulroy, of course.

• 53:17Speaker 04

  To more important things.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Of course, check out Mick Mulroy. All the links are in the description. Just to finish this off.

• 53:29Speaker 03

  Mick mentioned like, you know, it looks like the parameters of the nuclear deal are going to look a lot like the 2015 one that Trump and the Trump administration has lambasted and got us out of in 2018.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Is it just so like Trump can make a deal and take credit for it? I know this is like, because if it's the same exact deal or very similar.

• 53:53Speaker 04

  Well.

• 53:53Speaker 03

  Benefit.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  Well, the, I mean, it's a good question. The, the one thing that Jake Poet gave us, you know, it did fall short in not addressing the proxies and Iran's malign influence throughout the Middle East, which arguably was more of an immediate threat at the time to US interests. And it does indeed not look as though this potential deal or the approach by negotiation is addressing the proxies. But perhaps it's recognition that the one thing that Jake Poet did give us was the right to inspect, right? So we could monitor. And I understand all the potential shortfalls in these agreements.

• 54:38Speaker 04

  Iranians can hide things, etc. But we did have access. And so I think probably there's an element of admission here that we do need that kind of access and visibility again now. And and perhaps also an understanding that for reasons that we've already talked about here, Iran is in a much weaker position than it was back in 2015 in many ways. No, I'm not, aside from the nuclear program. I mean, the proxies, notably Hamas and Hezbollah are on the ropes. The Houthis are getting, they're getting bombed regularly and we've questioned the effectiveness of that, but nevertheless enough to, you know, they've

• 55:16Speaker 04

  been quiet since January. So all Iran has left is its nuclear program. And so, and, and, and by the way, in the meantime, its economy has really gone deeper in the toilet. And so they are arguably more ready to, to negotiate. The other piece too, remember the Japua was, it was, I think, six countries involved, right? These are just bilateral talks, which means perhaps that the talks are a little more effective. And it also kind of plays in with the administration's, I want to say disdain, all right, for.

• 55:57Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 56:11Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 56:22Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

• 56:27Speaker 08

  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

• 56:33Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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• 57:51Speaker 04

  For our European allies. I don't know. I'm speculating here.

• 57:56Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, you could speculate. You could just read that Signal chat that was released, right?

• 58:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 58:02Speaker 03

  About their thoughts about the European allies. Also, I'd love to talk about Israel. Like, do you think Israel's gonna want a carbon copy of the Japua from 2015? I don't think so.

• 58:16Speaker 04

  No, I mean, you know, this is not what Netanyahu wants at all. Netanyahu would like to see a strike take place. He would like to see the whole question of Iran being able to make a nuclear weapon removed completely. I mean, not make a weapon, but the nuclear program completely eviscerated and destroyed, such that it was never a question again.

• 58:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 58:43Speaker 04

  But I think, but again, I think, you know, that I think that's, even if the US supported such a stance, I think that's possibly, probably unrealistic.

• 58:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, I mean, I had it in my note as well about what's going on with Gaza. Like, it seems like they've totally cordoned off Rafa or the Southern, yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 03

  I'm gonna editorialize again. I think what's going on in Israel, what is, what's going on in Gaza, what Israel's doing is fucking disgusting. It is a war crime. There are, you know, Netanyahu and his war council are war criminals. Yeah, I get that, like, October 7th was horrendous and they needed payback and they needed to smoke Hamas. But we've seen Israel be surgical with their CT and, and, you know, intelligence services. I think they could have gotten a better result by doing that rather than destroying an entire area and killing 50,000 civilians.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  I think, and like, just, just a cutoff of aid and stuff like that, it's, it's, it's frankly fucking disgusting. And, you know, the, the, the pull that Israel has on us, both administrations, even, you know, the Biden administration doing the same thing. They, they, they gave Israel everything they wanted, but they kind of complained about it. You know, the Trump administration, less so, in turn, they give them whatever they want, but they don't really complain about it.

• 1:00:24Speaker 03

  So, man, I'm sorry I editorialized, but it's fucking disgusting what's going on. I gotta be completely honest.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  Any thoughts, guys?

• 1:00:36Speaker 09

  Yeah, I, I mean, I, I can't say that I disagree. I, I think that, again, and I just had this discussion with someone the other day, that you can, at, at the same time, agree that Israel had every right to retaliate for October 7th. Absolutely. There is no taking that away, but...

• 1:00:57Speaker 09

  It's gone way past that as far as I'm concerned and you no one can tell me, you know, I don't care if you're a Middle East expert, you can't tell me that it has not gone beyond retaliation for Hamas and going after Hamas to now going after what seems like all of the Palestinian people. And I, I just think, yeah, I think enough's enough. I'm not saying it has to completely come to a halt as far as military action against Hamas. I'm just talking about wholesale against the Palestinian people. It's just enough's enough.

• 1:01:34Speaker 03

  Milburn?

• 1:01:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, I, I mean, yeah, we talked about this many times on the, on the show. It's, uh, but there's no, you know, there's, there's nothing curbing Netanyahu now. And I mean, it's,

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  there is just no, no surprise, basically.

• 1:01:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:01:58Speaker 04

  What did it take? Nah. On that note, you should jump out, fellas.

• 1:02:03Speaker 03

  All right, get out of here.

• 1:02:04Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:04Speaker 03

  Guys, you guys, you guys get out of here. I'll finish up. I'll finish up the stuff if you're getting run. Later, Andy. Guys, do us all a favor. Like and subscribe. If you're listening to us on audio, subscribe there. Give it five stars. Best thing also you could do is share it with your friends. Even if they don't want to hear about it, share it with them. They'll, you'll thank you later. All the guys, uh, links are in the description. Andy Milburn's book, When the Tempest Gathers, link is in the description. Jason Lyons link is in the description. Mick Mulroy, Fogbo, Lo, uh, Lobo Institute, they're doing great work.

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  Links are in the description as well. And if you'd like to, uh, support the show and get this show ad free as well as the Team House ad free, you can go to patreon.com slash the Team House. That link is in the description as well. Guys, thank you.

• 1:02:56Jack Murphy?

  Talk to you for a moment about how you can support the show if you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a little bit more involved and help us continue to do this. You can check out our Patreon. It is patreon.com/the team house. And for $5 a month, you can get access to all of these episodes of The Team House ad free. The same goes with our affiliated podcast Eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason Lyons, Mc Mulroy. That one, you will also get all of those episodes ad free. And you support the channel and the show and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally what has helped this company, this small business survive, especially during our early years.

• 1:03:40Jack Murphy?

  And you are what continues to help this thing going even as we navigate the turbulent world of YouTube advertising. So we really appreciate all of you guys. There's going to be a link down in the description to that Patreon page. And there is also going to be a link to our new merch shop. So if you guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, we got stickers and we also have patches. And I should mention, if you sign up for Patreon at $10 a month, we will mail you this patch as well. So we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale on the merch shop. And additionally, they got t-shirts up there, water bottles, a tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff. So please go and

• 1:04:25Jack Murphy?

  check them out and support the show. We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you.

• 1:04:30Speaker 06

  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

• 1:04:45Speaker 07

  People would always think I was lactose intolerant. So I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

• 1:04:56Speaker 06

  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

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  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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  Hi, I'm Jenna Ushkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

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  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic. In a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

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  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

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  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you, you're not alone.

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  One of the best guys that I dated, he made a point to memorize all my food allergies.

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  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeart Radio app today.

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  Hi, I'm Jenna Oshkowitz. You might know me from Glee. This is At the Table, the food allergy podcast, a show about food, connection, and what it really looks like to live with food allergies. Each episode, we hear stories from real people like Daniel.

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  People would always think I was lactose intolerant, so I just kind of shortened my explanation to I'm deathly allergic, in a big way that defined a lot of my childhood.

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  And while there are challenges, there are moments that remind you you're not alone.

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• 1:11:14Speaker 06

  So join us and hear their stories and more, because living with food allergies isn't just about what you can't eat. It's about still having your seat at the table. Brought to you by Genentech and Novartis. Listen to At the Table, the food allergy podcast, on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow At the Table and start listening on the free iHeartRadio app today.

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