It’s The Most Taboo Business Model We’ve Ever Seen

Episode 566: Shaan Puri (https://twitter.com/ShaanVP) and Sam Parr (https://twitter.com/theSamParr) bring you the most taboo business model they’ve ever seen–plus the content funnel making this momfluencer $10M/yr. Want to see Sam and Shaan’s smiling faces? Head to the MFM YouTube Channel and subscribe - http://tinyurl.com/5n7ftsy5 Access Hampton’s “2023 Ecommerce Analysis: People, Profits, and Projections” here - http://joinhampton.com/ecom — Show Notes: (0:00) Sam and Shaan have "the talk" (2:50) Free egg freezing. Really? (8:37) Assessing the regret score of your life decisions (10:20) Economics of revenue per employee for ecomm (13:38) The content funnel of Dr. Becky (21:34) How momfluencers build trust (25:00) Strategic relatability, beautifully done (29:45) Genius marketing antics of Mini Katana (33:55) $1b dollar business plan: Freeze-dried candy (35:17) Hormozi's best advice - Find the 10/10 opportunity (38:10) The function of quitting — Links: • Cofertility - https://www.cofertility.com/ • Good Inside - https://www.goodinside.com/ • Dr. Becky on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drbeckyatgoodinside • Big Little Feelings - https://biglittlefeelings.com/ • V Shred - https://vshred.com/ • Miss Excel - https://www.miss-excel.com/ • Kinobody - https://www.facebook.com/kinobodyfitness — Check Out Sam's Stuff: • Hampton - https://www.joinhampton.com/ • Ideation Bootcamp - https://www.ideationbootcamp.co/ • Copy That - https://copythat.com • Hampton Wealth Survey - https://joinhampton.com/wealth — Check Out Shaan's Stuff: Need to hire? You should use the same service Shaan uses to hire developers, designers, & Virtual Assistants → it’s called Shepherd (tell ‘em Shaan sent you): https://bit.ly/SupportShepherd My First Million is a HubSpot Original Podcast // Brought to you by The HubSpot Podcast Network // Production by Arie Desormeaux // Editing by Ezra Bakker Trupiano Past guests on My First Million include Rob Dyrdek, Hasan Minhaj, Balaji Srinivasan, Jake Paul, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Gary Vee, Lance Armstrong, Sophia Amoruso, Ariel Helwani, Ramit Sethi, Stanley Druckenmiller, Peter Diamandis, Dharmesh Shah, Brian Halligan, Marc Lore, Jason Calacanis, Andrew Wilkinson, Julian Shapiro, Kat Cole, Codie Sanchez, Nader Al-Naji, Steph Smith, Trung Phan, Nick Huber, Anthony Pompliano, Ben Askren, Ramon Van Meer, Brianne Kimmel, Andrew Gazdecki, Scott Belsky, Moiz Ali, Dan Held, Elaine Zelby, Michael Saylor, Ryan Begelman, Jack Butcher, Reed Duchscher, Tai Lopez, Harley Finkelstein, Alexa von Tobel, Noah Kagan, Nick Bare, Greg Isenberg, James Altucher, Randy Hetrick and more. — Other episodes you might enjoy: • #224 Rob Dyrdek - How Tracking Every Second of His Life Took Rob Drydek from 0 to $405M in Exits • #209 Gary Vaynerchuk - Why NFTS Are the Future • #178 Balaji Srinivasan - Balaji on How to Fix the Media, Cloud Cities & Crypto • #169 - How One Man Started 5, Billion Dollar Companies, Dan Gilbert's Empire, & Talking With Warren Buffett • ​​​​#218 - Why You Should Take a Think Week Like Bill Gates • Dave Portnoy vs The World, Extreme Body Monitoring, The Future of Apparel Retail, "How Much is Anthony Pompliano Worth?", and More • How Mr Beast Got 100M Views in Less Than 4 Days, The $25M Chrome Extension, and More

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Shaan Puri?

  Sam, you know what they say when you're on a boat and it's sinking?

• 0:04Sam Parr?

  Get off?

• 0:06Shaan Puri?

  Women and children first.

• 0:10Shaan Puri?

  And that's what we're doing with the podcast today. Women and children first.

• 0:22Shaan Puri?

  I have a topic I want to talk to you about. Have you seen this startup that's called Co-Fertility?

• 0:28Sam Parr?

  How do you spell it?

• 0:29Shaan Puri?

  C O fertility.

• 0:31Sam Parr?

  I don't know. It could have been Co, like you spelled with a K like in the Asian way. I don't know. Co-fertility. All right. I get it. Yeah, I'm there.

• 0:39Shaan Puri?

  So check this out. You know, a little bit about egg freezing, but I didn't know much. I've never done it. But I do know there's like a growing trend of this. I think basically people are having babies later in life. And egg freezing tech has come along and it's also become more normalized. I think some companies pay you or will pay for your egg freezing. But like, just look at this Google Trends charts. Last five years, egg freezing has basically gone from, you know, roughly kind of 30, 40 on the Google Trends to like basically 80. And so it is, it is on the rise. And that's just in the past, I don't know, couple of years, two, three years. I think last year, 20,000 women in the United States chose to freeze their eggs. So still a very small number.

• 1:22Sam Parr?

  So for like the 18 year old men who are listening to this podcast.

• 1:26Shaan Puri?

  For me, six months ago, what is egg freezing? What do you mean?

• 1:30Sam Parr?

  So egg freezing. So I guess, I guess I actually don't know the difference in terminology, but I know from experience, there's two ways to do it. One, a woman just freezes her eggs. And then when she's ready, I don't, yeah, I guess.

• 1:42Shaan Puri?

  Why does it feel like we're having the talk? It's like when a man and a woman love each other very much.

• 1:48Shaan Puri?

  Birds of the bees.

• 1:49Sam Parr?

  I was, I was a participant in this. And so I guess you could, you could freeze just eggs. And then eventually, when you like meet a husband or you meet someone who you want to like mix it with, you mix it and they stick it upside the women. And then like nine months later, hopefully she has a kid.

• 2:03Sam Parr?

  The other way you do it is you freeze embryos, which is a process that I went through, which is awesome. But every like, leading up to doing it, I have to bring my sperm to the doctor, like 30 minutes after getting the sperm out of my body. And you just have this ultimate look of shame. And I remember my wife and I have debated, what is more embarrassing and shameful? Like when a woman has to go to a gynecologist or when a man has to like donate sperm? It's like,

• 2:34Shaan Puri?

  It's like when my son comes, like I haven't seen him in a little while and he's like a three year old and he just comes out of somewhere and he'll be like, I did a bad thing. That's you walking into the hospital, holding a couple of sperm.

• 2:44Sam Parr?

  It's a, it's a horrible experience. And so, uh, yes, I, so that's what egg freezing is.

• 2:50Shaan Puri?

  Somehow we made this about the dude side of things, but I think for the women, it's a little bit harder. They have to like, literally like take shots and like harvest the egg. It's like a very hard process on your body. Anyways, it's also very expensive. So I think traditional egg freezing, one cycle is something like $10,000. And so there's this startup, Co-Fertility, what they came out and said was, hey, free egg freezing. How is it free? Right? And it says, um, by the way, they had like this billboard or this ad, which was, it says, the best time to freeze your eggs is often when you can least afford it. That's why we're making it free. And I don't know if you've ever heard that phrase, if it's free, then you are the product.

• 3:29Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 3:29Shaan Puri?

  Basically,

• 3:30Sam Parr?

  Wow.

• 3:31Shaan Puri?

  The biggest version of this. So what it's doing, what they're doing is they're like, we will freeze your eggs for, for free, but we keep half. We keep half the eggs. And this sounds a little crazy when you first hear about it, but I actually think this is pretty smart. What they've done is they've bundled together two things. They've bundled together egg freezing and egg donation. So some people do donate eggs, they get paid for it and they're willing to do that. They go in eyes wide open and they choose to do that. And that's great because other people need eggs. And so they bundled it together where now you can, you can get free egg freezing if you bundle in and agree to donate half the eggs upfront. And on the other side, they go and charge people who want eggs and they charge them $13,000

• 4:15Shaan Puri?

  at $13,700 to as their matchmaking fee to get you your eggs. And so I think this is a pretty smart and disruptive model. What do you think of this idea?

• 4:25Sam Parr?

  Ah, insane. I think this is insane. Not in a bad way necessarily. I think it's a bad way for me. I don't want to do that. But I think that the whole process of that that I went through, that my wife and I went through, I think it was like something like $60,000. And her insurance paid for it. But if you can't afford it, you're screwed. This is pretty wild. Do you think this could actually work as a business?

• 4:50Shaan Puri?

  I think this can totally work. I think there's a lot of people out there who, like you said, they don't have the extra tens of thousands of dollars to freeze their eggs. And so if your options were, don't have, don't freeze it, or this free option, but you're going to donate your, you know, some of your unused eggs and you'll know that they're out there in the world. I think there's a lot of people who will take that. And I, by the way, I think that because this is controversial, it's going to get so much free press. Like there is something almost strategic in doing a sort of controversial taboo, almost a naughty idea. And you will get article after article, online argument after online argument. And all it really does is it pushes away the people who were never going to be your customer,

• 5:35Shaan Puri?

  but it educates the people who actually might be your customer because it's going to be so noisy.

• 5:39Sam Parr?

  Dude, let me tell you a related story. So she said I could name her name, but you and I have a friend named Kat. And well, she's, I'm really close with her. I don't know if you're close with her. I think you've just met her once or twice. Her and her wife wanted to have a kid and it was, and although she's successful, she's a, she's a frugal woman and it was really expensive to do this. And we all have a mutual friend, David, who's this wonderful man. He's like a six foot tall, good looking, nice, smart guy. And Kat and her wife Emily were like, David, would you like to, uh, you know, could we get some of your sperm and have a baby? And they looked into like some of this egg freezing stuff and it was really expensive.

• 6:22Sam Parr?

  And they were like, can we just kind of do it yourself on this one? And so they didn't have sex. They didn't have sex, but he would come over in the morning, like when they were ovulating and he would do the deed in the bathroom. They would get the sperm and they would just kind of, I guess they had like a do it yourself kid at home.

• 6:42Shaan Puri?

  Beaker?

• 6:43Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I don't know, like, and they did that. And in the very first try, Cat got pregnant. Now she's got a beautiful two year old and

• 6:53Shaan Puri?

  Wow.

• 6:54Sam Parr?

  It worked.

• 6:55Shaan Puri?

  So what did he get? Like free lunch? What happened? What did David get out of this?

• 6:58Sam Parr?

  Nothing. He just, he's like, he's like, dude, it's like on paper.

• 7:03Shaan Puri?

  That's how she's a great marketer, dude. She is a great entrepreneur and a great marketer. She convinced this guy to do this for free. She used her, her marketing skills.

• 7:11Sam Parr?

  Well, they have a beautiful kid and he's like the uncle and his parents sort of act like a mixture of grandparents and uncle and aunts. And it's like a wildly awesome relationship and everyone's happy with the ordeal. And so this whole like co-fertility thing, I think this is another interesting solution to the same problem. Similar problem.

• 7:32Shaan Puri?

  What's the, what's the slogan for Austin?

• 7:34Sam Parr?

  I don't know. What is it? Keep Austin weird?

• 7:36Shaan Puri?

  Weird.

• 7:38Shaan Puri?

  You guys are doing your part out there.

• 7:40Sam Parr?

  They kept it weird. If I told you this solution, like, oh, it's just possible. You'd be like, that's crazy. These three people, it's, I guess it's a throuple. I don't know what you call this. It's perfect. It's like the most harmonious relationship I've ever seen.

• 7:53Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, it sounds actually very healthy to be honest.

• 7:55Sam Parr?

  It's very healthy. So I like co-fertility. Did they raise money?

• 7:59Shaan Puri?

  I, you know how I think they raise money? They have the like, you know, when you see somebody who goes to the store and buys a new outfit? And you're like, you're looking great, but like, can't really put your finger on what's new about it. And then you see the tag on their jacket still. You're like, oh, this is, you got a new jacket. That's what you went shopping. You got a new jacket. Their fonts are all the fonts of like a red antler brand where you're like, oh, you launched, but you paid for fancy branding upfront. You got a font that I can't find on defont.com in the free section. And so I know that they got some money somehow to do this.

• 8:33Sam Parr?

  This is pretty cool. Would you do this?

• 8:36Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, why not? Also, it's hilarious that like on this huge life decision, I was like, why not? And then for the first time in my life, my brain responded with several reasons. Why not? Usually, why not is met with nothing. So they did some, I was reading some study and it said that 83% of egg donors share that they would donate again, and only 2% regret their decision, which forget about, you know, surveys, I think, are often prone to just like finding data that supports the point you want. But I do think it's an interesting, that's an interesting statistical thing, which is what percentage of people regret X decision? Like, I would love to see a list of life decisions and then the regret score. You know, for example,

• 9:19Sam Parr?

  Tattoos.

• 9:20Shaan Puri?

  Burning Man is this thing that I've been on the fence for, for like 11 years, even though everybody I like and trust in my life who goes is like, it's the best. What are you even talking about? What's the decision? Just go. And I don't know anybody that's regretted it personally in my life. I'm sure there are people, because it's just like a million people that go every year. But I just kind of want to see for life decisions, the regret percentage for each thing. I think that would be very illuminating for somebody who's trying to make good decisions in life, don't you think?

• 9:46Sam Parr?

  Wait, so why haven't you gone?

• 9:49Shaan Puri?

  To Burning Man? I'm scared of drugs.

• 9:51Sam Parr?

  Yeah, same. But you just literally said no one that you've met has regretted it.

• 9:55Shaan Puri?

  And when I tell them that, they're like, so then don't do drugs. I'm like, but I thought that's what you do there. And they're like, no, that's just one of many things. You don't have to do drugs. What kind of dork ass response was that? And then I'm like, okay, I'll, I'll think about it this year. Then I go home and I'm like, I'm still scared of drugs. I'm not doing this.

• 10:11Sam Parr?

  My square friend, like my, I'm straight edge. So my other straight edge friend and his girlfriend, they're like, hey, we went to Burning Man, Burning Man, it was awesome. You guys want to see some pictures? I mean, I was looking at pictures and swiped into their phone and it looked a little bit normal, a little bit normal. And he's like, sitting over my shoulder, like, yeah, this is this cool guy we've met. Like, here's this cool van that we saw. There's us just like, doing this. And then there's a picture of him butt naked, like with a full frontal photo with his arm over her, who's also naked. And they're just like smiling. And then he's just like, yeah, there we were like celebrating this thing.

• 10:48Shaan Puri?

  The weather was great that day.

• 10:49Sam Parr?

  Yeah. And then just swipe and I was like, okay.

• 10:54Sam Parr?

  And I saw that I was like, I don't know, man.

• 10:56Shaan Puri?

  Those might be the scariest words in the English language. Do you want to see some pictures from my Burning Man trip? It's like, you know, right before you go to Six Flags and they put the, they, the, the like roller coaster thing and the thing comes down and clamps you in. That's, that's how I feel when somebody says you want to see the pictures from Burning Man this year.

• 11:11Sam Parr?

  Um, I want to do another parenting one. Before I get to the parenting one, can I do a quick little thrill the show?

• 11:17Shaan Puri?

  Thrill me, baby.

• 11:18Sam Parr?

  This is something I'm, um, I'm proud of. So in Hampton, we have access to like a thousand founders and we've been doing these really cool surveys where we.

• 11:26Shaan Puri?

  What's Hampton by the way?

• 11:27Sam Parr?

  Hampton, it's my community for CEOs, uh, average CEOs doing about 25 million dollars in revenue. You guys can check it out and you apply, we interview everyone. Fun fact, my partner, Joe and I watch 100% of the interviews and we're the ones clicking the approve or deny button.

• 11:43Shaan Puri?

  So like the Harvey Weinstein of the, of the process, would you say?

• 11:48Sam Parr?

  No, I would not say that. I would not. So check it out, joinhampton.com. But here's what's kind of cool. We did this survey and I was like, let's do wealth where we like, ask all these people, all these questions like, you know, how much money do you have? What's your monthly burn? All these questions that people are embarrassing to have. It was cool, but then we were like, let's actually do it by industry. And so we're doing it by software. We're doing it by all the different industries. So what other industries, other software, marketplaces, health stuff. We just did one on e-commerce and if you go to joinhampton.com or just search, just actually, this is easier. Look in the YouTube description or just Google join Hampton and then blog and you'll see our blog and you'll see all of our reports. Dude, we did this thing with e-comm owners where we asked them all about their revenue per employee and, uh, their, uh, how much profit they're making?

• 12:32Sam Parr?

  How much they're paying themselves, things like that. Did you see that thing we released?

• 12:36Shaan Puri?

  What was the revenue per employee? I'm curious.

• 12:38Sam Parr?

  Dude, it was pretty good. So let me read you off some of the.

• 12:42Shaan Puri?

  Wow. What a satisfying answer. Thanks.

• 12:44Sam Parr?

  I'm going to read it.

• 12:46Shaan Puri?

  The chart just says pretty good.

• 12:48Sam Parr?

  Yeah. Dees, it just says Dees. I'm going to read, I'll, I'll, I'll read you off. So we had about 50 people reply. The average revenue of the responder was 25 million, average revenue per employee, 1.35 million. The average founder paid themselves $385,000 a year. Net profit has grown consistently over the last couple of years and we break down each company's net profit. And shockingly, I guess this isn't shocking to you and I, fucking Meta, dude, it's still the best platform for buying ads for e-comm.

• 13:17Shaan Puri?

  Dude, uh, it is, except for there's a couple of people just dominating on Tik Tok shops right now, but, um, Let me ask you something. On 1.3 million of revenue per employee, right? So 1.3 million of revenue per employee, I would say that a good e-commerce brand is doing 20% profit margins on that before taxes, EBITDA, EBITDA margin. And I would say the average might be between 10 and 15%. So let's just do a little math. So 1.3, and let's just use the 15% number. What is that? $195,000. And so I would guess the average wage might be 100 for these ecommerce stores, maybe 120. And so roughly 50 to 70K of profit per employee.

• 14:01Sam Parr?

  And so that's why the 30th and final slide of this presentation, where we go through all the numbers.

• 14:06Shaan Puri?

  It just says ecommerce sucks.

• 14:08Sam Parr?

  It just says, don't, don't.

• 14:12Sam Parr?

  But if you're listening and you are into ecommerce, check it out. Just look up, you go to joinhampton.com/blog or just search Hampton blog and you'll see all the reports there or in the YouTube description. Now, can we talk about something that it was your idea to get to cover this person? And I'm now obsessed with them. Who's that person?

• 14:30Shaan Puri?

  Dr. Becky.

• 14:31Sam Parr?

  Dr. Becky. I love Dr. Becky. I more so love the idea of her than maybe I actually love her.

• 14:37Shaan Puri?

  Explain what you, who she is and why you love her.

• 14:40Sam Parr?

  I'm going to give you like the two-minute breakdown of who she is. So Dr. Becky, I believe her real name is Becky Prince. Now her name is Becky Kennedy. Grew up in Scarsdale, New York, which is like a really nice suburb in Long Island. On Long Island, it's like 45 minutes outside the city. She had a bunch of issues as a kid, so she had like emotional issues that she wasn't sure how to handle. Eventually that developed into anorexia and she starts going to therapy at age eight or nine. Gets obsessed with therapy, goes to Duke and Columbia to study psychology. And then, starting around the pandemic, so 2020, she just starts doing this content on Instagram. And I looked at her first post, it feels like very impromptu. So it's like her just kind of actually like this setting or like your setting, next to a wall,

• 15:24Sam Parr?

  just with their camera up and answering questions about parenting, of which she studied at Duke and Columbia. And it takes off. And one of the reasons it takes off is she's very charismatic. She's very cool looking. She's got the it factor. She looks like someone who you could trust and she grabs your attention nicely, although it's sort of like Andrew Huberman, where he's not doing anything like thrilling, but there's something about their personality and the way they look where you're like, I just want to trust and

• 15:48Shaan Puri?

  High trust. You just trust this person.

• 15:50Sam Parr?

  Yeah, I just want to listen to you. Now, things kind of take off and she's like, let's turn this into a thing. So she creates this business called Good Inside and it's a community where you pay $300 a year. And you, uh, you get access to like this area where you can talk to other members and you could ask questions. And they also have a bunch of, uh, she calls it Good Inside clinicians, but people who I guess if she's trained, who are talking and answering different questions. And now it's a thriving community. Behind the community, you also can see videos of her, things like that. And by the way, do you know who she partnered with to start this business?

• 16:25Shaan Puri?

  I do. I just found that out right before this pod.

• 16:27Sam Parr?

  You, did you catch that?

• 16:28Shaan Puri?

  I was like, Erica Belsky. Huh. Is that a common last name? Or is this Scott Belsky's wife? And it turns out it's Scott Belsky's wife. No way.

• 16:35Sam Parr?

  It's Scott Belsky's wife.

• 16:37Shaan Puri?

  Under the pod, Scott Belsky.

• 16:39Sam Parr?

  Yes. Scott Belsky, who's now the chief product officer at, uh, Adobe. I don't know if he's actually been on the pod, but we both admire him, just a wildly successful, cool dude. And that's her partner. And did you also know that they've recently raised $10 million for this business, Good Inside?

• 16:57Shaan Puri?

  No way. I did not know that. And this is only like a few years old. I think it's like three, four years old, but you, you missed the headline. The headline of the story is, uh, the product, uh, their product, Good Inside, has about 50,000 paying members. So their membership community is probably doing around 13, 14 million a year in revenue, giving parents, parenting tips, parenting advice from two clinical physicians and mothers, right? Uh, that's kind of amazing. And this is a

• 17:22Sam Parr?

  That's amazing.

• 17:22Shaan Puri?

  It's an interesting market. There's actually a bunch of these. So I don't know if you ever saw, uh, Taking Care of Babies. Do you know who that is?

• 17:28Sam Parr?

  No, what's that one?

• 17:30Shaan Puri?

  So if you just get her, her, her name is Kara and then her handle is Taking Care of Babies. We had bought her course, like for a hundred something bucks when I had my first kid. And she has basically like a sleep training course of like

• 17:42Sam Parr?

  Yes.

• 17:42Shaan Puri?

  Train your baby to sleep without, without, uh, crying it out.

• 17:46Sam Parr?

  I did this too.

• 17:46Shaan Puri?

  I bought her a hundred dollar course. I sat down, I did it. I looked at it. I watched it and I was like, yeah, we're not going to be able to do that. But either way, it was good material and there was some good insights in it. And basically, the funnel for these is all the same. Free content on Instagram or YouTube. And then basically, like, they're just building trust on Instagram, really, where it's like, here's who I am, here's what I do, I'm gonna put up stories and tips every single day. They build up trust, trust, trust, trust, trust. And then they have the free, or sorry, they have the paid either membership or educational product underneath it, the info product. Taking care of babies was making somewhere between 10 and 15 million dollars. This was not even like a company, this is just like her. 10 to 15 million dollars a year in revenue with fat profit margins because she was spending

• 18:28Shaan Puri?

  nothing on marketing and basically had no, you know, a small team or no team. And then she got canceled, unfortunately. She got canceled because she donated to Trump, of all things. Like, a pretty crazy reason to cancel somebody, but the mom sort of in mass unsubscribed. And in all the mommy groups on Facebook, they were like, we're not gonna support her if she's gonna support Trump. And so she kind of got knocked down a couple of pegs. I think she's still out there doing fine, but.

• 18:52Sam Parr?

  But wouldn't like the Trump people be like, yeah, I'm in even harder?

• 18:56Shaan Puri?

  Well, I think there's probably some lean and the like, who uses these products and who pays for these products, which is like maybe more coastal moms and whatnot. Like, it might be skewed in that way. I'm not sure, but, but you're right. It doesn't fully, doesn't fully make sense, but I remember reading that. There's other ones. Ben had bought this one called Big Little Feelings, I think. They sold 200,000 courses at an average of a hundred dollars, so 20 million in revenue. Turns out, mom influencer, great career. Great career if you could pull it off. And it's a very simple career, not easy to do, let me put that, put it that way, but very simple. Free content on Instagram, lead to paid thing. But obviously, these people have expertise. Maybe they've been a doula for a long time, or they're a clinical physician, or they're a clinical psychologist, sorry.

• 19:40Shaan Puri?

  They have, they have to have some, you know, expertise or authority in the domain. But, you know, one of the things I really liked about Dr. Becky's content, by the way, is I think intentionally, she makes it relatable, so she's not wearing a lot of makeup. She's not sitting in front of a very well-produced thing, which of course, they could afford it at this point. But she'll be like, on the go to pick up her kids from soccer practice, just take out her phone when she has the impulse about some topic and say it. And I think it makes her feel like the kind of relatable but aspirational mom who like, just finds time, doesn't have time type of thing. And I think there's something strategic about that, that, that's pretty cool.

• 20:16Sam Parr?

  So. That's what I wanted to bring up. So Dr. Becky is, I think, a very, very smart woman. And I think she runs with very smart people because I was looking into this woman a little bit. And this sounds like I'm hating. I don't mean for it to sound that way. I'm a big fan of this person. And I think they're the real deal. I think that this is far more put together than it appears to be. It tries to look like it's kind of thrown together and it's this thing. But Dr. Becky lives on the Upper West Side of New York, where a 1,800 square foot apartment is typically five to like $7 million. And she also like went to the best schools. She's from Scarsdale, which is a beautiful fancy community in New York.

• 21:01Sam Parr?

  I think that she runs around with, you know, people like Erica Belsky, these people that are top notch, top at their game. And they, I think that it was definitely like a, we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do this, and we're gonna do this, not, oh, what thing just happened to turn to this, to this, to this. Like, she's executing this plan perfectly. And so this, again, this sounds like I'm being negative. I'm not. There's nothing wrong or unethical at all about any of this. But it like, I think this is like a perfectly executed plan is what I think it is.

• 21:29Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, I think for most content creators, it starts organically, right? Because you don't sit there and think, and now from scratch, I shall become an influencer with millions of followers. It's not really how most people start.

• 21:40Sam Parr?

  I think she did.

• 21:41Shaan Puri?

  I don't think so. We could scroll back. Like, let's scroll all the way back.

• 21:45Sam Parr?

  No, they deleted old posts. All the old, I already found the old posts. They've been like, I, I, I looked on YouTube, like they're like, there aren't that many old posts. And here's what I think. I think that had you met this woman 10 years ago, like, it would have been very, you could have just had a conversation with her and been like, yeah, I think you got the if factor. Like, this is like a type of person who I see her talk. And I'm like, dude, it's very obvious that you've got like whatever these popular influencers have. Let's just put a little bit of money behind this and try this to do a thing.

• 22:14Shaan Puri?

  Well, I like that you've gone coffee's along this one. You're like, hey, wait, pause that frame. That's Oprah in the background. She's friends with Oprah. You're like, if I try to find the thing. I think my, my personal belief, I don't think it's plotted, but I do think it's strategic. Meaning, I think there is a lot of. To make something look effortless, to make something look authentic and, and, and real, it actually takes some effort to make something look effortless. And it takes some thinking to make something look off the cuff in a way, right? And, um, and often it's not that you're manipulating people, but it's you're intentionally saying no to certain things that would ruin that vibe, that would break that trust, that would break the fourth wall or whatever. And so I do think that they've done a great job of that. It's like,

• 22:58Shaan Puri?

  uh, you know, there, but there is the negative version. Like, I think, remember those stories about Sam Bankman Freed, where they were like, um, hey, uh, you know, you're going to meet with whoever this investor today. And they're in the boardroom and they're like, Sam, um, you look good. He's like, thanks. And they're like, no, like you need to, you need to look like a, like you need to look like a dork. And they were like, get this man some jorts and like, somebody ruffle up his hair, make it look like he hasn't slept in six weeks. And there was, there was an article that basically was like, we basically knew that people pattern match. And if we can look basically like Zuckerberg and a bunch of the other like, kind of prodigies who are awkward, who don't know how to dress, who they have these weird personality quirks. Okay, let's play up that he's vegan. Let's

• 23:41Shaan Puri?

  make him drive this car, right? Like, there was intentional choices along the way to either make him look more like that, or prevent anybody from polishing up those rough edges. They're like, no, no, the rough edges are key. Let's keep those. And actually, let's put those front and center.

• 23:56Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 23:56Shaan Puri?

  And there was, there were stories that came out. It's very rare for those stories to come out. Cause even the people that pull it off, they, they never have any incentive to come out and like, acknowledge that. It's only when somebody has a complete downfall that his closest confidants come and betray and be like, yeah, that actually happened.

• 24:11Sam Parr?

  By the way, I am not remotely implying that Sam Bankman Freed and this woman are even in the same, I'm not, all I'm saying, I like this lady. I trust her advice. I think she's wonderful.

• 24:24Shaan Puri?

  You are not getting an invite to her Hamptons party this summer, right?

• 24:27Sam Parr?

  What I am saying is, I think that she's just a shark when it comes to business, which is not something that would, you would necessarily want to portray when you're trying to be a, a mother expert. I'm on board with Becky. I think she's the best. So I'm on board. Um, what, uh, is there any niches that you think are interesting other than parenting for this model? Because this model is the most basic, simple model.

• 24:51Shaan Puri?

  Explain the model. What do you mean by that?

• 24:53Sam Parr?

  So the model is, um, Well, I don't know why they raised money for this because typically you don't need to with this model, but the model is, we'll use Andrew Huberman as an example. So, or we could use what I've done, whatever. But the model is you get popular on the internet and become a thought expert. And then you get popular oftentimes through having a blog, sometimes a podcast, sometimes on social media. And then you create a community, you create a community that is something like $200 or $300 a year. And you try to get as many people as possible. And then you also host events that cost money. And then you have courses that are between $1,000 and $2,000, something to upsell because you want your pricing to be something cheap, a little bit more expensive, and a little bit more expensive. And then you just focus on getting

• 25:37Sam Parr?

  more and more popular and creating this business all around a lifestyle, an idea. For her, her idea is, what's it called? Good inside? I think that's like her, it's like, that's like a thing she teaches called good inside. For other people, like, there's Mark Sisson, who did this with

• 25:53Sam Parr?

  Good Apple, which is about like a health company. There's a lot of people who have done this in a variety of niches where it's thought leader, blog, book, course, community, and then like some type of higher tiered membership.

• 26:07Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, definitely. Like Miss Excel did this with just teaching people Excel, Excel expert, create free content, leads to courses, leads to info products, leads to membership. I think this playbook has been out for a while. And by that, I just mean to say, I don't think this is, I don't think you have to do the figuring out. All you have to do is the execution, which is nice in a way, but it also means it's kind of competitive. It's not as easy as it might have been if you were early in the figuring out phase. But you could definitely do it. We've done it in a way. We just gave three examples in the parenting niche that have done it. Miss Excel has done it there. There's people who have done it in the, you know, the V-shred type of model that have done it in the guys, bodybuilding.

• 26:49Sam Parr?

  What's V-shred?

• 26:51Shaan Puri?

  V-shred? You don't know what V-shred is?

• 26:52Sam Parr?

  No, what is that involved like the V of your abs?

• 26:56Shaan Puri?

  Yes, yes, the Dorito body, baby. You want your, you want your upper body to be shaped like an upside down Dorito. You don't know who V-shred is? That blows my mind, dude.

• 27:05Sam Parr?

  Let's V-shred.

• 27:06Shaan Puri?

  It is the perfect intersection of. Dude shirtless, successful businesses and internet affiliate marketers. I can't believe you don't know who this guy is. That is your, that's your Venn diagram.

• 27:17Sam Parr?

  Sign me up.

• 27:20Shaan Puri?

  You don't know who V Shred is? Oh my God. All right. So let me give you a little V Shred story. So you, you do know this guy. As soon as you see him, you're gonna know this guy.

• 27:28Sam Parr?

  I, I'm on his website. I have, I, I don't, I've never seen this before in my life.

• 27:32Shaan Puri?

  Basically, this guy was super jacked guy who then runs Facebook ads. You click the Facebook ad and it takes you down a funnel and his funnels are pretty like well-known in the internet like marketing niche. Cause it'd be like a V Shred click funnel. And it would be usually a quiz and it would take you through a quiz of like, I'm a guy. It's like, do you want to get jacked or get abs? And you're like, oh man. Or it's like both. It's like, give me both. And then it'd be like, what holds you back? Is it, you know, eating poorly? You're like, yeah, it is eating poorly. How'd you know? And then you just keep going down this funnel. It's like, I'm gonna give you a personalized thing. And then it gives you a personalized thing and you pay 99 bucks for it. And he basically ran this funnel and made like, I don't know how much money this guy made, but I'm pretty sure I ran at one point, this was like nine figures, but I think I might be mixing up Keno Body and V Shred.

• 28:17Sam Parr?

  No, you're right. I'm looking at V Shred and some, like, there's some stories saying it's done $200 million in revenue.

• 28:23Shaan Puri?

  Yeah. So how, look at this block was how V Shred used a quiz funnel to drive 200 million in revenue. I don't know if this is like legit or not, but in 2022, they had 5 million monthly visitors on their website. And yeah, this guy just basically dominated with, with Facebook ads for the, the health and fitness niche. Now, what he was doing was he was using ads. He was still an influencer, but he was like, cool, I'm gonna pump ads. And I have this like funnel that was basically the most simple click funnel in the world. Like you go there, literally, we could show this on the screen. It's a progress bar. And then it just says, are you a man or a woman? And it was like, simple, like A or B type of answers. And you click, you click, you click. And then you kind of want to see what's the end here. And then they'll show you like at the end, it's like before he sells you

• 29:05Shaan Puri?

  the thing, he shows you like five transformations. Like here's this nerd. Now he's jacked. Here's this fat guy. Now he's skinny. And it just shows you like five transformations. And it's like, do you want that shit or not? And then you buy it.

• 29:17Sam Parr?

  Imagine them just describing it at their meeting like you did. So we're gonna show a nerd, a fat guy, and then we're just gonna say, want this shit or not?

• 29:27Shaan Puri?

  Where are we gonna get a nerd? Take your shirt off right now. Go and take a picture. It's you. You're the guy.

• 29:34Sam Parr?

  Do you want to talk about this guy Isaac?

• 29:37Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, yeah, tell the story. Okay, this is like a full, this is a full circle story. So have you, have you seen, have you seen what the guy, that guy Isaac's doing? The guy who, we talked about his mini katana brand.

• 29:47Sam Parr?

  What's his last name?

• 29:49Shaan Puri?

  I have no idea what Isaac's last name is. Isaac mini katana guy, sword guy. And we talked about it before because he had taken a product that was super niche, literally katanas, like, I don't know, Japanese sword.

• 30:03Sam Parr?

  Swords. He sent me one.

• 30:05Shaan Puri?

  Yeah, they're called mini katanas. By the way, this thing is like six feet long.

• 30:08Sam Parr?

  It's not mini.

• 30:09Shaan Puri?

  Nothing mini about it. You know how pissed my wife was? It's like giant sword in the house now. And I'm like, I don't know, it's supposed to be small. I don't know what happened. And they couldn't run Facebook ads or Google ads because you can't advertise weapons. And so what he did was really smart was he basically got content creators to make cool, he turned his disadvantage to his advantage. His disadvantage was I can't run ads. His advantage was I sell a cool product, swords, and there's a lot of cool content you can make with swords. And he just used YouTube and TikTok to go viral many times. And he built it up to like 10 million or so a year. Basically, like, you know, 10, 10 to 20 million a year in revenue on the katana brand. But of course, surprise, surprise, there's not a lot of repeat purchase in the sword niche, right? Like, you're not, you know, there are some collectors, but for most people,

• 30:54Shaan Puri?

  most people don't want a sword. Of the people who want a sword, you might just want one. You might not want to fill your house with swords. So it was not a great econ product. But what's he doing now?

• 31:02Sam Parr?

  Hold on, before you get to what he's doing now, you missed a few points about Isaac. So Isaac, I listened to a podcast with him. He was like, he did Postmates and like freelancing and things like that. And then he's like, I'm gonna start a business. And so. He was like, yeah, we can't, like you said, we can't advertise, but you didn't say how big his channels got. So basically, he was like, I'm going hard on content. And so he gets up 1 billion views a month across his network of YouTube channels. And so his main channel on YouTube, which only launched in 2022, has 8.7 million subscribers and 5, uh, and billions of views. And this is like, not their main product. Their main product is the swords. And they're just using this as marketing, but it's, they knocked it out the park.

• 31:47Shaan Puri?

  It's an incredible example of marketing. I've used this, I've, I've used, I've learned some things from Isaac and used them in my business that have been very effective. And it's just a different way of thinking about marketing. So, but what he was doing was he would say, all right, how do you sell a mini katana? You can either go to people who already are collectors. That's a really, really small market. You go to people who might be interested. Why? Cause they have interest in anime and different like interest overlaps. Where do they hang out? Okay. They hang out on Tik Tok and on YouTube. All right, cool. How do I actually get them to want my product? How do I build desire for my product? And what he did was instead of saying, here's the sword, here's the features, here's how the handle looks. Here's how sharp it is, whatever. He's like, do you think I can cut this bullet in half?

• 32:29Shaan Puri?

  If I shot a bullet at somebody at this ninja, do you think the ninja could cut it in half with a sword? That video has like, I don't know, 10, 20 million views. It's like an insane video where a guy literally chops a bullet in half as it's flying at him using a sword. And then he does another one where it's like,

• 32:47Sam Parr?

  Which is kind of like a weird, that's like a weird thing. That's like saying like, if you punch me, me saying like, told you my face could stop that. Like, like the bullet aims at the sword.

• 32:57Shaan Puri?

  Hurt your hand, huh? As you bleed. He also did one that was like, another marketing thing I really liked of his was, how do you not mention the product in a way that drives the comments crazy? So he started a video that was our, not he, but like one of his creators started a video that was like, they're cooking a steak. So you think it's a cooking video and it's about a steak. And then they put the steak on the, on the cutting board. And then they take a giant katana and they cut it into slices, but they never mentioned the katana. And every comment was like, uh, are we going to talk about him using a actual sword to cut the steak? What the hell was that? And the comments drive the virality. And it was, if he had said, now watch me use this sword, people wouldn't care. It's when he didn't mention the sword that all the comments have to talk about. Uh, bro, can we, what is this?

• 33:43Shaan Puri?

  And it's that type of social engineering that I think was really, really smart. All he needed was a better product. I think he might have a better product now.

• 33:50Sam Parr?

  And so he, he starts to sit down and he's like, all right, so my business got to like 10 or 20 million in revenue. That's not enough. I want to go to one billion. And so he shared out, he goes, in late 2022, I stepped back and I said, I need to hit a billion dollar company. Or I want to make a billion dollar company. Here's my five requirements. Would the content playbook give us a severe unfair advantage? Does the, does it have a huge TAM? Meaning could a 1% win be a massive outcome? Is there some, is this something that I'm personally passionate about? Does this have a moat, sort of like mini katana store already had, which is like making swords are really hard. So if I could figure that out, I have a moat. And then finally, the product doesn't 100% rely on marketing because I want tailwinds. Uh, I want, I want to like catch a wave.

• 34:35Sam Parr?

  And so he said, what can I launch that fits that? And so what did he launch?

• 34:40Shaan Puri?

  He launched a freeze dried candy brand called Con Pie Foods. And, um, it's basically a candy brand and it's, I don't, have you ever had freeze dried candy? I've never tried this.

• 34:51Sam Parr?

  I, I don't think I've had this. I don't even really know what it is.

• 34:56Shaan Puri?

  All right. So here's what it says, freeze dried process removes all moisture from the candy, leaving behind a perfectly crunchy treat. So I think it's candy that's crunchy like a chip, basically.

• 35:04Sam Parr?

  And light. And so it's like a gummy bear, but it's like a light.

• 35:07Shaan Puri?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Sam Parr?

  Yeah.

• 35:08Shaan Puri?

  Exactly. It's like just the sugar. And so he, uh, by the way, this is a great example of one of the most valuable insights that I ever had on the podcast. When Alex Hormozi came on the podcast, a long time ago, I don't know where this was. His first came on like three years ago. And you know, Hormozi puts out like, you know, a metric shit ton of content every month. And I don't consume all of it. But this one thing he said to me three years ago on our podcast has stuck with me and I've repeated it to myself and many others. I actually told Isaac this at a party once when I was talking about, dude, You are doing 10 out of 10 execution on a two out of 10 opportunity. This was the advice I needed to hear early in my career because I started a restaurant and I tried

• 35:51Shaan Puri?

  to do all the coolest shit in the world and I tried my hardest and I was trying to bring 10 out of 10 effort and I thought I was a 10 out of 10 talent, but I was going after a two out of 10 opportunity. And that's what Hormozzi said that he, that's the advice he got from Russell Brunson about his gym launch thing. They were like, dude, you're, you're an amazing marketer, but you're just using your marketing to launch brick and mortar gym chains one at a time, a couple in a year, maybe. What you need to do, that's you taking 10 out of 10 execution at a two out of 10 opportunity, brick and mortar, small scale boutique gyms. Instead, what you should do is take your marketing playbook and go sell it to every gym across the country. That's the 10 out of 10 opportunity. Similarly, you know, just the last segment we talked about

• 36:34Shaan Puri?

  with the Dr. Becky, taking her, her expertise in children, if all she did was saw five, five clients a day as a clinical child psychologist or whatever it is, that would be a smaller opportunity than what she decided to do, which was make a media product that scaled to millions of people and then charge, you know, a membership fee and make 13 to 15 million a year on her membership fees. Right? That's a same skill set, bigger opportunity or same person, bigger opportunity. I think what Isaac's done is he's taken that 10 out of 10 content playbook that he really like mastered and he switched from going to a one, I would actually give the sword thing, like honestly, a one or two out of 10 opportunity. And now he's going for like, you know, a sort of a five or six out of 10, maybe six out of six or seven out of 10 opportunity

• 37:19Shaan Puri?

  because he said it right. He might've had a hundred percent of the mini katana market before and it'll be smaller than him getting half a percent of the, of the candy market or even the like alternative candy market in this case.

• 37:35Sam Parr?

  What did you do with your mini katana?

• 37:37Shaan Puri?

  It's sitting right over there on the wall in my office. In a case, just in case.

• 37:44Sam Parr?

  Which is the problem with it, which is the exact problem with that business is minds do the same thing. It's just sitting there and I showed it to three people.

• 37:51Shaan Puri?

  I was supposed to practice every day. What was I supposed to do?

• 37:56Sam Parr?

  And so did he shut down Minikatana?

• 37:59Shaan Puri?

  I have no idea, but he should.

• 38:02Sam Parr?

  Just light it on fire, throw it in the dumpster and hope no one finds it with that whole business?

• 38:05Shaan Puri?

  It's honestly an underrated, uh, an underrated thing is the art of quitting. Um, like your whole life, you're told not to quit and you're told that perseverance is everything. Well, quitting, like everything, it wouldn't exist if it didn't have a function. And, uh, there is a function to quitting things. And, you know, it's easy to quit when everything's failing. The hard thing to quit is the slow burn of mediocrity, right? Like the thing that's not taking up all your attention, but is taking up some, the thing that's not totally working and achieving your goals, but it's not totally failing. It's that middle zone is the danger zone. The things that are obviously failing are easy to stop. We stop them no problem. The things that are working are easy to keep working. You just shouldn't stop them. It's the things in that middle zone that people are very, very bad at quitting. And if I had to give myself a little pat on the back, this is the one thing I'm good at is being

• 38:50Shaan Puri?

  pretty ruthless about things in the middle zone. Like I had a venture fund that I was doing. I had a rolling fund. It paid me very well and I was deploying, I don't know, close to $10 million a year to invest in startups. It was, uh, it was good, but it was in the middle. I found better investment opportunities outside of that. Um, but it wasn't so bad that I needed to stop and I could have just let it chug along and eat away at my focus and instead just made a ruthless cut and said, I'm stopping this. And when are you stopping it? I'm stopping it yesterday. It's done. Now I'm just gonna stop it now.

• 39:20Sam Parr?

  That was a good time to use a, a line that I think we should make our line, which is not to toot my own horn, but beep beep.

• 39:33Sam Parr?

  You gotta say it like that.

• 39:35Shaan Puri?

  Dude, have you said that before? Where did that come from? Is that from something?

• 39:41Sam Parr?

  That's an MFM special.

• 39:43Shaan Puri?

  Dude, once in a while you just get me like, you make me laugh in a way that very few people can make me laugh, dude. It is so funny. That is, oh my God. Wow.

• 39:53Sam Parr?

  Give yourself a little toot.

• 39:56Shaan Puri?

  I have to do my own beep beep.

• 40:01Shaan Puri?

  Oh, that was good. I don't want to do the podcast anymore. I want to end it and laugh.

• 40:05Sam Parr?

  That's an MFM special. Um, Isaac, I think you're awesome, man. Sean, I think you're awesome for being a quitter. Beep beep.

• 40:15Sam Parr?

  Dr. Becky, even though I was, sounded like I was being rude, I think you're also awesome. Beep beep.

• 40:21Sam Parr?

  Is that it? Is that the pod?

• 40:22Shaan Puri?

  That's it. That's the pod.