#2381 - Taylor Kitsch

Taylor Kitsch is an award-winning actor best known for his roles in films such as "X-Men Origins: Wolverine" and "Lone Survivor," as well as television shows including "Waco," "Painkiller," "American Primeval," and "The Terminal List." His new series, "The Terminal List: Dark Wolf," a prequel to "The Terminal List," is streaming exclusively on Amazon Prime Video. In addition to his busy acting career, Taylor is an accomplished wildlife photographer and philanthropist. He is launching Howlers Ridge Fund (HRF), a nonprofit serving veterans, people in recovery, and those facing trauma, grief, and life’s hardest moments through nature-based retreats, educational programs, and grants to aligned nonprofits. www.primevideo.com/detail/0MYH9XYR9SCGXB57LR8ES71GFLwww.howlersridge.org Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new DraftKings customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Get 1 promo code to redeem discounted NFL Sunday Ticket subscription and max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. NFL Sunday Ticket: YouTube TV base plan (not included in this offer) required to watch Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. Subscription autorenews yearly at then-current price (currently $378 for YouTube TV subscribers, or $480 for YouTube subscribers); cancel anytime. Terms, restrictions, embargoes and eligibility requirements apply. No refunds. Commercial use excluded. Addt’l terms: https://tv.youtube.com/learn/nflsundayticket/draftkings/. Offer ends 9/29/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, 85.

• 0:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, slap some headphones on.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to, well, see, if you're ever gonna shoot something at 45, you really want to be comfortable at twice that.

• 0:23Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 0:23Joe Rogan?

  So I'll shoot 90, I'll shoot 100 yards, yeah.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because that way, when you get into 40, it seems normal.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 0:31Joe Rogan?

  Seems easy.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  Easy day.

• 0:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:33Joe Rogan?

  It's all just about, like, effective distance.

• 0:35Speaker 01

  Would you take a shot at 85?

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:37Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 0:38Speaker 01

  That's far.

• 0:39Joe Rogan?

  You might take a follow-up shot.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 0:41Joe Rogan?

  Like, if you know the animal's already gonna go down.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:44Joe Rogan?

  And you can, if you can, you should always get a second shot on them.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:47Joe Rogan?

  So I'll take a second shot at 85, but I would never.

• 0:50Speaker 01

  Have you had one and, and it just fucking ran, just gone?

• 0:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Like 200, 300 yards?

• 0:58Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean?

• 0:58Speaker 01

  Like, if you shoot it and you know how?

• 1:00Joe Rogan?

  Like, hit it?

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, hit it and it just goes into the bush and you gotta track it, find it.

• 1:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you can track them, though.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, just leaking all over the place?

• 1:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, blood trails.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you use a large, mechanical, broadhead.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  So, I've shot one deer in my life, and it was after Lone, and I was on Luttrell's.

• 1:18Joe Rogan?

  After Lone Survivor?

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was with Luttrell and a couple other seals on his ranch.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  And, you know, you're surrounded by seals, so it's like, he's like, "Let's get you one." I'm like, "Yeah, let's go." And, so we're on the ranch. Have you been there?

• 1:34Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Oh, it's great. And, I don't know how many acres, but he had, used to have, like, giraffes on the ranch and shit. It was crazy. You would literally just be out there and there's a couple giraffes. And I think they're, they've, they're gone now. But we pull into this, like, opening, and he's like, "There's gonna be some deer on the right." Lo and behold, couple deer. He's like, okay, take that one. Pull out the M4. Uh, we're pretty far, but not crazy. And I'm nervous, man. I like, of, of course I've trained with the M4 and, and for loan and all this stuff, but I've never like, shot shot. And so I hit it. And he's like, fucking great shot. Let's, let's roll up.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Roll up, no deer. And you can hear it though. And it's like,

• 2:27Speaker 01

  just losing its fucking mark.

• 2:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  And I'm like, oh, fuck. And so the other seal, he's like, let's go. So we walk and walk and walk and finally get around this corner. And we have to put him down with a pistol. And I was like,

• 2:43Joe Rogan?

  Why'd you have to put him down with a pistol?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Just because we walked right up on it. And it was,

• 2:48Joe Rogan?

  Just dying?

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so I was just like, okay, this is part of it.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Um, and then we, you know, ate it and all that kind of stuff, but it was, uh,

• 2:58Joe Rogan?

  That's the good part.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is. Um, but that was my one experience. But I did, I did go, uh, with my bro loves hunting. And, uh, we went out in Montana and there's on, on a friend's ranch and into the back country. And he was bow. And I love tracking animals for photography. So it's the same thing. Watching the wind. Um, getting up fucking before light hits, just getting deep. You're way up there too. Calling, all that kind of stuff. And, uh,

• 3:31Speaker 01

  it's just so fun. And once you get in tight, your adrenaline's just buzzing. And we had eyes on this like big boy. And, uh, so then I'm doing the, he's like working his way up the mountain, up this, uh, pass. And I'm doing the antlers against the tree and then the antlers and getting it angry, getting it worked up. And it starts bugling even more. And you're like, I'm not even taking the shot. And I'm like, This is fucking legit. And he like, he pulls his fucking mask down and he's like getting into it. I see him like army crawling up there. Missed, but um, we had a blast. It's more of like a bonding experience, man. Than anything for us, but.

• 4:15Joe Rogan?

  It's a very intense experience, especially.

• 4:16Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 4:17Joe Rogan?

  They scream and.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 4:19Joe Rogan?

  The sound like gives you goosebumps.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  It does.

• 4:22Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you're close to them.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it just goes through your body.

• 4:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  It shakes you.

• 4:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's nothing like elk.

• 4:29Speaker 01

  I know.

• 4:31Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's really fun.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:32Joe Rogan?

  But it takes a lot of work.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  It is. You earn it.

• 4:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  It's a different hunt, right?

• 4:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Than just rifle. It's just rifle up there and at least in that area, it's like sometimes your, your hunt's under an hour.

• 4:46Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  You know, with bow. You're in one.

• 4:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:50Speaker 01

  This is days possibly.

• 4:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 4:54Joe Rogan?

  Especially if you want to get within fifty.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:57Joe Rogan?

  And then if the wind swirls.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Yes, yes.

• 5:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Throwing up the grass, checking it all the time.

• 5:04Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  Fuck, it's so fun.

• 5:06Joe Rogan?

  You live in Montana now?

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I do, yeah.

• 5:08Joe Rogan?

  How long you been out there?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Five, just over five years now.

• 5:12Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome. What made you choose that?

• 5:15Speaker 01

  Man, flying into Austin, I was here sixteen plus years. So it's just memory fucking lane. It's crazy. Crazy. This is where it all started, man.

• 5:24Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Friday Night Lights. Um, we're like school for the deaf just down the street. Uh, land in the airport, uh, Dylan Field was just across the airport. So so many memories. Of Pete and I, we were staying at the Four Seasons, shooting the pilot, learned to box here at Richard Lord's. Um, if you don't know this guy, he's fucking amazing.

• 5:48Joe Rogan?

  Richard Lord?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, Richard Lord. There's a doc on him, actually. He's up, I don't even know if he's still around. He was pretty old when, when he taught me how to box. But um. Wicked dude, just zen'd out. He was probably in his mid-sixties, so he'd be up there now. But um. Yeah, Pete literally was like, before we hit camera, it was like, hey, you want to go box? And I was like, alright.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  And I loved it. I loved it. And I still box.

• 6:19Joe Rogan?

  You mean Peter Bird?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Peter Bird, yeah.

• 6:20Joe Rogan?

  He loves boxing.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 6:23Joe Rogan?

  LA, yeah.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  Of course. I do not spar with him anymore. He's, Dirty Pete is his fucking boxing name. I bet you he didn't fucking tell you that, did he?

• 6:33Joe Rogan?

  No, why is it Dirty Pete?

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Because he's earned that, man. He's, uh... So, you know, you'll do body shots only, or stuff like that, and spar. Keep each other honest.

• 6:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Um, but fuck, you get him once, it's, there's no rules. There's no rules. And it's like you're on camera in like a week or something like that.

• 6:53Joe Rogan?

  Trying to give you a black eye.

• 6:56Speaker 01

  And then you like take it, and you're kinda shocked at first. It just goes from like two to eleven so quick.

• 7:03Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  But yeah, it's the best workout.

• 7:05Joe Rogan?

  We have a gym connected here. So the last time he was here...

• 7:07Speaker 01

  No way, here?

• 7:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's right next door. We have a big gym.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  No shit, smart.

• 7:11Joe Rogan?

  So, we worked out together, and cold plunged, the whole deal.

• 7:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:15Joe Rogan?

  He gets after it.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  He does. He does. He pushes. I mean, even when we shot, uh, American Primeval, he was, uh... His little garage setup, man. Cold plunge, uh, steam room, like it's... He's gotta have it.

• 7:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  He's gotta have it for that brain of his. Yeah.

• 7:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, American Primeval was fucking awesome, dude.

• 7:37Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.

• 7:38Joe Rogan?

  That show's so good. I started wa- watching it with my wife, but she's like, "Nope, gotta go."

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Too much, bro.

• 7:44Joe Rogan?

  She can't handle...

• 7:46Speaker 01

  It's a lot.

• 7:46Joe Rogan?

  Things get intense. That's a fucking inten- but also probably super accurate.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:52Joe Rogan?

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• 10:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I learned so much on that, man. I mean, living in Montana, I got to, uh, this cowgirl friend of mine who I met at that ranch.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Had been working with this shaman just outside of Livingston. And I was telling her, I'm playing a guy that kind of raised by Shoshone and all this and like that was kind of where I hung my hat of like if this guy lost his family at six or seven and then adopted or sold to the Shoshone, this is who he is. He's more Shoshone than he is white. So I started working with this shaman, uh, which was incredible. And then, um, went down to the Shoshone Reservation, Wind River. Worked with the elders there. It's tough, man. Cause obviously going there, you're like, and they knew I was coming. But it's like, you're talking to these elders and it's like, we meet

• 11:52Speaker 01

  five minutes in and I'm like, so what do you, what do you guys do when you bury your wife? And you're asking these heavy, heavy questions.

• 12:00Joe Rogan?

  Cultural questions.

• 12:01Speaker 01

  Yes, that is true meaning behind it all. So she took a long beat. And she's like, I'll get back to you on that. I'll get back to you on that. And then I went into this other room. At the school there and this other elderly woman comes in a wheelchair. And she sits there and she's like, what do you want to know? And so we just sat there for hours. And she was incredibly transparent and just really open and I would take all this and go to Pete and be like, listen, if we're gonna, we gotta honor these guys. So let's do it right. And he was all ears and the Shoshone was very tough to learn.

• 12:38Joe Rogan?

  When you say working with a shaman, like what did, what did you do?

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, so we'll do like two hour sweats.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  Like a sweat lodge?

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 12:46Joe Rogan?

  How do they have that set up? Like a fire in the middle of it or something?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's, uh, fire is always burning. Uh, before you start the sweat and then he'll grab river rocks from Yellowstone, uh, river. And then the fire's going and he'll bring these rocks. rocks that are in the fire into the middle of the sweat lodge. And there's four doors to this one. And you'll talk, you'll fast the day before. And you'll, he'll put the river rocks in the middle and they're smoking hot, right? And then he brings river water from a spring or whatever. Um, and then you have, you fast and then you have your intention ties. So you would sit down with them for an hour or two and talk about what you want out of this. Um, sometimes it's like, do I want to have a kid?

• 13:35Speaker 01

  Or a buddy of mine was using heroin for something. So I would bring him and have a sweat and just give him my energy in this sweat to help him. Or my dad passed or something or some, it can be light too. It doesn't have to be so heavy.

• 13:51Speaker 01

  But he's been amazing like before, like I start a movie in a couple of weeks. And I'm just gonna go do a sweat and get ready for that. And I just, whatever he's gonna, energy he's gonna give me to go into this shoot. Um, and then for the, for prime evil, it was fucking beautiful. Like I wasn't a good rider, I'm still not on horses. And he gave me, like my horse has a feather. If you really watch, he's, I have four horses in it, but my first horse has a feather in him. And I wanted to do all these in honor of the horses, uh, which obviously the Shoshone do. Um, so he, he just taught me a shit ton about

• 14:32Speaker 01

  just to honor that tribe and honor what, what they do and, and to be as authentic as possible. So that helped me root Isaac so much.

• 14:42Joe Rogan?

  But yeah. That's a, such an intense character. I imagine like you're playing a guy who's a white guy who's like deeply ingrained with Native American life. And so it's like, it's all, it's very conflicted. There's a lot going on there, but you want, you, you want to embody what this guy would be like.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And you're, you meet him when he's mourning, right? And he's lost his wife and his son and he married into the tribe. Uh, so the, the female chief, I married her daughter and had a son. And, um, so when you meet Isaac, he's just in mourning and. Everything is full circle, everything is circular with them. So, the only way he could reunite with his family is to, is to die honorably. So, that influences the way I fight. So, the way Isaac fights is all in.

• 15:36Joe Rogan?

  Wild.

• 15:37Speaker 01

  Wild, like biting.

• 15:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  I had, I just got chills thinking about this. There's a fight, I think, in episode two, which was fucking insane. And, we didn't rehearse. This is very Berg. And, we have these, one guy's Blackfeet. Unbelievable guy, and I kept using him because he's a great stunt man. And, um, so Pete's like, "You guys are gonna fucking roll down this hill, and I want you to fight your way to the river, and then we'll cut, and then I want you to fight in the river." This is like, maybe twenty-eight degrees in that river. The safety guy is like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is not cool." And this is all like on the go. So, JJ dashing on my double,

• 16:24Speaker 01

  is like all in. He loves this. This is near the end of the shoot too, so. And, uh, everyone's game. And, um, that fight was just so fucking intense.

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  So, is it choreographed at all?

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 16:40Joe Rogan?

  Nothing?

• 16:41Speaker 01

  Literally nothing.

• 16:42Joe Rogan?

  So, how do you know, like, when he's gonna punch, or you're gonna punch?

• 16:45Speaker 01

  So, during, if it's you and me, it's like, you will walk the area, make sure there's no, uh, sticks or whatever that were gonna impale us. And during the fight, I'll be like, "Okay, I'm gonna flip you."

• 17:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 17:00Speaker 01

  And then it's like, "Okay, I'm gonna get on top."

• 17:03Joe Rogan?

  So, you have to say it?

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then Pete will be yelling behind camera to be like, "Okay, now work your way on top of him, and then we'll fight, work our way, roll, work our way," and then he's like, "Okay, find a rock." Kill him. Jesus Christ. And then that war cry, which I'm so proud of, I worked on that forever, but uh, and I had talked to Pete about it for, you know, months before, but we're just rolling so quick. And I told our A camera Brett to get in tight. I mean, any shot with Pete is fucking tight, which I love. Um, and I'm like, B, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this war cry, so don't go down to him or,

• 17:48Speaker 01

  and he's like, gotcha. And so when I did it, Pete finally called cut and he goes, what the fuck? I was not fucking ready for that. And it's those moments though, that, that he allows you to just go, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's such a smart guy. He is, man. When he's dialed, he's like lone, he was just so present and early and he just, I mean, we're surrounded by SEALs, as you know, every take and um, I don't think you could do what we did to, in prep of just like, no producers, no Pete, no nothing. It's just every morning, 7am, 8am, we're up on the mountain.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Uh, with SEALs, with Ray Mendoza and uh, amazing guys. And uh, we, first week is like, first day, man. I'm Canadian, so I haven't shot a fucking gun in my life.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  The first time you ever shot a gun was Lone Survivor? Well, yes. That's hilarious. So first, Chris Karachi, who's a fucking legend, a man's man. Um, and he, I think, he was like one of the, on the first team, uh, SEAL team units. And the deepest voice you've ever heard in your life and like a fucking man. And he took me under his wing and so our first day was live fire. And Karachi took me aside. He's like, hey, it's you and me. And I'm like, let's go. And I'm like, as fit as I ever have been. I was running Town Lake, doing the Murph every fucking three times a week with weighted vests.

• 19:29Speaker 01

  And just at Lake Travis High School there, doing pull-ups and it was unbelievable fun training for that. And first day was live fire. And that fucking gets you right. That you do not fuck around. And they make sure of it. And then I haven't, I hadn't met Marcus yet. And Foster had drove down, I think from Texas to New Mexico with, with Luttrell. I was pretty jealous of that. I was like, oh, you got to spend some real time with Marcus. And I was playing Mike, obviously, and, and who was Marcus's best friend.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  And so we're on this fucking range, doing live fire, like upside down, reloads, combat reloads, jamming, blindfold. It was just, it was full on. And Emil's actually a great shot. Marcus comes, everything goes full stop. And right when he's coming, there's a P A on the other side and she's bringing fucking banana shakes out. Which is not a good look for these actors. And Marcus looks at these shakes and he looks at the actors and he's like, what the fuck is happening? You guys don't get shakes in between, but?

• 20:50Speaker 01

  And one of the actors just shamelessly goes up and grabs one of these banana shakes. And he's just talking to Marcus, meeting him for the first time. I'm like, you might wanna put that down. Like, wait till he fucking leaves before. But, and then, uh, it's just a beautiful experience, man.

• 21:12Speaker 01

  The second week of training, we were doing simunitions. Have you done that? No. Oh, you would love it. So this'll break skin, and, uh, they hurt. It's like hard plastic, paint tipped, and they fly like that, right? They arc? Yeah. Cause they don't go as fast? Right. And, uh, so we have Sims now, and Mike would, I'm, my guy decides if we push left, push right, if we engage, get the fuck out of here, let's buy ourselves some time, whatever. I gotta make these calls. And, um, so the SEALs are in tally gear, and they're like, go up the mountain. What's tally gear? Taliban gear. Oh. They're all dressed in tally gear.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  So, we meet up at the bottom of this fucking mountain, and they're all in Taliban gear. And you're like, oh god. We're so fucked. So they're like, give us 10 minutes, and, uh, when you get ambushed, we're gonna watch, and we're gonna engage, and we're gonna see what you do, see what you've learned the last week. And you're like, alright, let's go. So, it happens, and you're just walking, right? Just like we are in the film. You're just walking and waiting to get ambushed. You know shit's about to hit. And, so they hit, and you hit the ground right away to figure out where the bullets are coming, and,

• 22:37Speaker 01

  uh, and you can hear them, which really sets you straight. And so I'm looking over at Emil, and I'm like, fucking, uh, 12 o'clock. They're just straight up in these trees. I'm like, 12 o'clock, fucking push right. We gotta get the, cause we're in this open field, I just got chills. We're in this open field. And I'm like, get the fucking cover, dude. We gotta fucking fight our way to cover. And Emil's like-

• 23:07Speaker 01

  Taking his time. And he's like, "Bro." "Ah, fuck." "Alright, this is fucking intense." And I'm like, "Push." Right, I got Foster behind me, who's like so in it. He's fucking crawling through cactus and like bleeding. And I'm on the ground crawling, screaming at Emile. Marcus comes out, full s- we got hammered. I literally don't think we got through a mag. Like, and Marcus comes out. And we're not laughing, but it's too light. Like, we're taking it too lightly. And I'm like, "Emile, you gotta push, man." If I'm pushing, if I'm telling you.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  So Marcus comes in and he's like, "Full stop." And he goes, I thought he was gonna rip Emile. And he comes over to me, and he's like, "Is this funny?" And I'm like, "No, sir." And he's like, "Do you understand the stakes of this? Like, every one of you are fucking dead. You're all fucking dead." And so he just rips me. He's like, "It's your fault. This guy doesn't wanna fucking move? Make a move." Like, "You're dead, do you understand that?" And I was just like, just leveled, right? And it's a beautiful learning, a curve for me. And, um, we got better.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  But, I mean, anytime, there's one time, I won't kill you with these stories, but... One time, I was like fucking proud of myself. Like, we got in a ditch. We're, it was too much. Simunition, same thing. And we got in a ditch, and we're all here. And I'm fucking looking downrange, like, like fucking, we're in one. We're still in a fight. And then, no joke, Mark Simos, the sniper SEAL, grabs my fucking shoulder.

• 24:59Speaker 01

  And he's like boom and I'm like where the fuck did you come from like that's how good these motherfuckers are man. So it was like it was just an amazing experience.

• 25:11Joe Rogan?

  When you train for something like that, like how much time is spent like when you know you got the role?

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:17Joe Rogan?

  And you know you're gonna film like how much time do you give yourself to prepare for something like that?

• 25:20Speaker 01

  Longer, I love prep.

• 25:23Joe Rogan?

  Do you?

• 25:23Speaker 01

  So yeah, I do, yeah.

• 25:24Joe Rogan?

  Why, why do you love that?

• 25:26Speaker 01

  The more time I can root myself into this guy, especially when the stakes are so high like Murph. Um, I mean physically uh was I did this little comedy uh in Canada. And if you watch this movie and I was training for loan during this movie, so it's called Skirwink Trail. Um, in Newfoundland, beautiful fucking trail and it's me, my best friend of thirty years and my assistant who is a great guy and we're training for loan, getting ready, doing like fifty pound runs. Uh, weighted vests, all this kind of stuff, Skirwink Trail. So if you watch this movie.

• 26:08Speaker 01

  Like at the beginning to the end, my body goes from like this to just fucking stacked in this movie. And so there's that, but obviously ninety percent of this is mental, right? The seals. And so um, I just love that. I love the prep. I love that pressure. Pete did a beautiful thing, bringing nineteen guys died on the op uh in the rescue mission. So it was like. He brought all the families. Uh, I think it was a week before we hit camera and um. Man, you know, I'm going, it's, I'm in the elevator at the Hyatt in uh Santa Fe or New or Albuquerque.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  And I'm fucking nervous, like throw up nervous because I'm meeting Dan Murphy now. And I'm like, did I do enough? Am I really fucking ready? Am I worthy of this shit? And then we all have that fucking voice in our head that's like, you're a pile of shit. You didn't do enough. You're not ready. And that's why I prep so much because it eliminate, it's like a fight, right? UFC or anything, these guys fucking, you prep to eliminate that self doubt. So you can be like, I'm fucking ready for you. You know, so it's the same mentality. And so that was um. My first words to Dan were like, I'm gonna, everything I have into this, I'm gonna do it as authentically as I know how.

• 27:34Speaker 01

  And he was just so fucking gracious with me. Gave Mike's firefighter patch and just told me some amazing stories. And I'm super close with the Murphy family still, but I love prep, man. I think it's, you gotta have it, especially with Pete's process. Like, if you're, he's so off the cuff sometimes. And if it's an idea he has on the day, which he really leans into his gut instinct. And obviously that's guided him pretty fucking beautifully. But you just gotta be ready for anything. And if you don't prep, you're not rooted, you're not ready for anything, you know? So that one was a special one. Yeah.

• 28:20Joe Rogan?

  Do you, when you get into a character, like, if you're doing Lone Survivor, do you try to stay in that character all day long? Like, do you try, do you break for lunch and just be yourself?

• 28:32Speaker 01

  I try, for sure, but you're still-

• 28:35Joe Rogan?

  You try to stay in the character?

• 28:35Speaker 01

  No, I try and be with you in the moment, at lunch. And not, even though-

• 28:42Joe Rogan?

  It's gotta be weird, though, right?

• 28:43Speaker 01

  It is weird, because you're having-

• 28:45Joe Rogan?

  Cause you're on location.

• 28:45Speaker 01

  Yep, on top of the fucking mountain, you're taking this ski lift up there.

• 28:49Joe Rogan?

  And it's so important to be this guy.

• 28:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then you're having lunch with the Taliban guys.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  And they're coming and they're like, hey, man, we're big fans.

• 29:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  And you're like, this is fucking weird.

• 29:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're supposed to be shooting at each other in 20 minutes.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  I'm about to fucking blow your head off, man. And so, I mean, Wahlberg's quite light in between, so that can be infectious in a good way. Ben is very, like, he carries that weight in a beautiful way. That's why he's so good. Uh, Emile's quite light.

• 29:25Speaker 01

  But yeah, there's definitely a tone, right? Uh, especially when you're surrounded by the SEALs. It's such a quick reminder of what you're doing or serving. But yeah, you're up on that mountain, having a sandwich, helping camera crew move their shit.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  And then lunch is always quick, so you're right back into it. And it depends on the day, like, if I know-

• 29:49Speaker 01

  Like the climb up to Murph's death was you're just carrying more weight that day. You just cannot fuck around with, you better get that fucking right. Right. And I remember being, uh, Emile comes up to me and he's like, hey, if we get off tonight, I'll go full circle with this, if we get off tonight, uh, you wanna go see Eddie Vedder? And I'm like, fuck yeah, I love me some Vedder. And that was in Albuquerque. And so we go to Vedder, meet him, Vedder calls him up, sings a couple of songs to him, it was unbelievable night. And Pete, the next day, comes up to me and we're back up in the mountain doing some, uh,

• 30:33Speaker 01

  the fall off the cliff, we're doing that the next day. And Pete's like, hey, your death scene, I wanna talk about it. And I'm like, all day, what do you, what do you wanna know? I got some thoughts on it and, you know, I talked to Marcus in the hotel and he, he remembers one specific thing he'd like me to do and so Murph brought, was pushing himself up with his rifle, uh, climbing up this rock. So I'm like, that's really all I wanna make sure for Marcus's sake that I get that in. And, uh, he's like, yeah, yeah, uh, we're gonna shoot this, um, in a parking lot. Uh, uh, just outside, uh, on, off the highway in Albuquerque. And I'm like, yeah, right.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  And he's like, no, no, I wanna control the light and have a beautiful landscape behind Murph. And I'm like, Pete, you, you're fucking killing me. We're gonna do this in a fucking parking lot? And so it was my last day as Murph. And I love music. Uh, I always have a playlist for whatever character. And, um, Explosions in the Sky, who's Austin, who was at the time Austin based, great guys, and Pete uses them all the time. Um, and they're just acoustic, no lyrics, which is, they're fucking amazing. And so there's one song that has a heartbeat in it. And that was my song from Murph. And it slows down in it. And so I go-

• 32:03Speaker 01

  You know, prepping in the, in the trailer, I walked down through this fucking parking lot and I'm like, oh dude, I'm not in it. I'm not ready for this. And then I'm getting mad at Pete for putting me in a parking lot to do this shit. I'm looking at fucking Sandia Hotel.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  Getting ready to go like this most epic death on, you know, it doesn't get more epic than that guy, really. Put in the tunes. And they built this big stage that was like four feet high and the, the rocks and then surrounded it by green screen. And cameras on the phantom camera, which is that uber slow motion. That's where you see the, the spit coming out of Murph's mouth and all this and. And I just broke down. Like just, I puddled myself. Right before it was just like months and months and months of thinking about it. And, uh, and prepping and putting so much pressure and then I had explosions. In my head and I was like, goddamn, this is like, you're overwhelmed with emotion.

• 33:05Speaker 01

  And Pete comes up and he's like, get it out. And so I took five minutes, camera crews waiting. We did like, I told Pete, I want that rifle to him to climb up with the, the rifle and, um. I think we did three takes. And then the camera crew, Jacques was a, he's a DP. He DP'd American Primeval, but he was a camera op on, on loan. And, uh, he was working that slow mo camera and he just goes to Pete, he's like, we've got it. We've got it.

• 33:39Joe Rogan?

  Was it weird watching it on film, knowing that you shot it in a parking lot, like trying to?

• 33:45Speaker 01

  This is the first time I told this story. Um, very much. Like we would go. We went and, the first time I saw this film, man, was in, uh. I think it wasn't Redskins, it was Denver, the Broncos. We go and show this to the Broncos. And, uh, Robert Griffin the third was the quarterback, I think. Yeah, he was there. And, um, I was with Ben Foster and Ben had seen it and I was, I watched it the first time with the Denver fucking Broncos, sitting in this theater. And I was a mess, a mess, yeah. Yeah, it's just the pressure, right? I think.

• 34:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:30Speaker 01

  But I love it.

• 34:31Joe Rogan?

  Do it honor.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, truly. And then my first email was to Dan, his dad. And he thanked me and that's all that really, and Marcus, but yeah, they thanked me and that was really all I fucking need.

• 34:44Joe Rogan?

  That's gotta be a very intense kind of a role because you're playing a real human being whose family's still alive.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Maureen, Johnny, Dan, uh, the whole family and there's a destroyer, uh, fucking beach, uh, uh, uh, male, uh, uh, UPS, or not UPS, but like a fucking, um, stamp or whatever named after him, there's fucking, it's insane, there's all these huge, uh, honorary plaques and statues and all this kind of stuff, so if you let it like overwhelm you, it definitely can. Yeah, but it's been, I mean, that's where all this, my love for these guys is, is really stemmed from that, you know? Um, that's where it's like,

• 35:38Speaker 01

  I, I've played SEALs a lot and it's, it's, I'm never raised military or my grandfather served, but it was, it's an infectious group, man. It's like a brotherhood that's so real.

• 35:54Joe Rogan?

  Exceptional humans.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  Truly, truly, and people don't understand these guys are the best fucking problem solvers on the planet. They're doctors, they're lawyers, they're fucking smart. And, uh, so.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  I don't know, I've just been embedded and I think once you're in with these guys, you know, you're, you're, you don't take it for granted. It's like, I've made calls to a buddy of mine that, one of the most decorated SEALs alive, and he trained me for loan, Ray Mendoza. He just came out with Warfare, that movie, that's his best friend, his story, and unbelievable guy. But I'll call Ray, and Ray was doing second unit on Terminalist Dark Wolf, and he's like a brother to me. And, no joke, you're like, "Hey man, I need a favor," and he's like,

• 36:49Speaker 01

  he'll fucking bury someone for you, man. This guy, like, "Yeah, what do you, what do you need? What, what is it?" And it's like, it's just that whole brotherhood that it's like unquestionably, undeniably loyal.

• 37:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  And like Marcus, like, I mean, we're chatting a lot lately just because I'm shooting in Huntsville in a couple of weeks and he's not far, but, like, my, my sister, I took some time off to help my sister because she was using drugs, and, and I just needed somewhere to fucking go. Just, I can't be in Austin, I tried LA, she's still using, she's still relapsing. I, fucking Marcus, call Marcus, I'm like, "Let's, I, this is what's going on," he's like, "Bring her here. Bring her to the ranch. There's no fucking fentanyl, there's no heroin, there's no meth on this fucking ranch, man, bring her here." And so, I, she's not using at the ranch, so we went to the ranch,

• 37:49Speaker 01

  and ten days, I know she's gonna be fucking clean, because there's just, all we're doing is driving around looking for hogs, or like, hanging out, fishing, whatever it is, but, he's just a beautiful guy, man, and where he is now is just, he's lighter on his feet, it's so beautiful to see. He was hurting on loan, going through a lot of fucking surgeries still, all this stuff, so, they're just so loyal, and just great guys.

• 38:21Joe Rogan?

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• 39:02Joe Rogan?

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• 39:34Speaker 04

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• 40:14Joe Rogan?

  Have you been paying attention to what they're doing in Texas for veterans?

• 40:19Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:19Joe Rogan?

  This I began initiative?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Yeah. Awesome.

• 40:21Joe Rogan?

  Huge.

• 40:22Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 40:22Joe Rogan?

  It's it's so remarkable how effective it is.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  And how many people it's completely saved their life and changed their life.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:31Joe Rogan?

  You know, and I was just thinking about that for your sister, you know, I don't know.

• 40:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's clean 10 years now, just under 10.

• 40:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's awesome. That's amazing.

• 40:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, thanks. Uh, she's a nurse now.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  Which is incredible.

• 40:41Joe Rogan?

  That's great.

• 40:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's it's really kind of like that's where that nonprofit comes from. Um, I just started it called Howler's Ridge and um, I didn't even know like when she got clean, like there's some fucking crazy stories I can tell you. Um, but she's she got clean and she hit me up and she was at a sober escape with all the girls she got clean with. And I'm like, what is that? And it's basically a reunion with all the people that you went through your sober living or whatnot. The last place she got clean was she was supposed to be there 90 days. She was there nine months.

• 41:19Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 41:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I said. Um, and uh, so she was at this sober escape and so Howler's Ridge is basically a place I think we all know an addict if we're not ourselves and uh, and we're gonna help vets as well. But it's the sober side of addiction. So it's a place anytime you're using, at least through my experience, watching my sister die a couple of times, get narcanned a couple of times. I mean, I've seen her detox on my fucking kitchen floor, which is the worst fucking sight of anybody to watch someone in so much pain. Um, but um, this this spot is for her, you know, where where it all started and this is,

• 42:04Speaker 01

  I think anytime you're using, right, we're all habitual humans. You work out six, seven times a week. You need that for your brain. So do I. And once you get in that habit, I change. If I don't work out in three, four days, I'm a fucking asshole. And I get depressed.

• 42:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I get.

• 42:24Joe Rogan?

  Anxious.

• 42:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, very.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  Yep, me too.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  And I get, and I beat the shit out of myself.

• 42:29Joe Rogan?

  Right mentally, yeah.

• 42:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:31Joe Rogan?

  Feel terrible.

• 42:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  Um, so we all create this environment, whether it's good or bad.

• 42:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And I think with my sis, I just didn't have anywhere to take her. And I needed to pull her out, cuz there was a time I, she relapsed like four or five times in LA. And I was just finishing True Detective when I got her. And, uh, I mean, there's stories, but like, it's pretty fucked up, that whole system. Cuz you have someone that's dying, right? It's someone you raised, or your brother, fucking best friend, whatever. And, uh, I bring her to this, well, first she had to detox, which is an incredible story. Um, my mom calls me, and she's like, she's been using for this long, and I go full hero mode. I didn't even know what fentanyl was.

• 43:20Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 43:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't. This is right after True Detective. I really wasn't exposed to it. I knew heroin, of course.

• 43:26Joe Rogan?

  So what is this, like, 12, 13 years ago?

• 43:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, right in there, whenever the end of-

• 43:31Joe Rogan?

  You didn't know what fentanyl was?

• 43:32Speaker 01

  No. I knew, I knew, like, with the seals, um, they had fentanyl patches for the pain.

• 43:40Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  And then, of course, like, but that's really all I fucking, if that. Like, obviously, I educated myself on it after, and it's 20 to 25 times worse than heroin, it's a deathbed drug, puts you to sleep. And, um, so I got this call, and I'm like, I'll get her sober in two weeks, bring her down, like, hero mode. And she comes, and I had no idea what was going, and she had used right before she flew. And so she was in withdrawal.

• 44:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 44:14Speaker 01

  Oh, God is fucking right, man. And your muscle contractions are so bad that I had this little one-bedroom apartment in Marina Del Rey, 15, like, literally a hallway from here, about this long, actually. And it's late, and, um, she's just pacing, cuz she can't sit still, cuz the muscle contractions are so bad. And I'm like, shells just- Take, go to bed, take my bed and just try and sleep. She's like, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. I have to move. And so she tried sleeping, going, laying down, muscle contractions are so bad, she fell off the bed. And I'm like, okay, let's go for a walk.

• 44:56Speaker 01

  And the beauty of our relationship and what I think was a huge factor in getting her clean was the transparency. Like, you gotta fucking be real with me. Tell me when you used, tell me how often, like, everything. And she did, which is so tough to hear. Um, and so we ended up walking down Abbott Kinney at three in the morning. And no one's obviously out there. And we just did this crazy walk and talk. And I'll never forget it. And it's just heartbreaking. And I get her and I call, um, I don't even know if she needs to detox. So I call the hospital, Marina Del Rey, and they're like, no, we don't take anybody that's using right now.

• 45:38Speaker 01

  You, they have to be detoxed and we may be able to help them after. So I'm like, okay, what the fuck is, okay, we got, got a detox. And, um, so I call this place and they're like an hour away. And she's like, I have a bed for her. And bring her at 6 a.m. I mean, I got this little wrangler, a two-door wrangler, and she's in the backseat, my mom in the front. And she's like, almost kicking the fucking glass out because the muscle contractions of my Jeep. And I was like, holy, like, such a wake-up call that I had no idea it was this bad. So reality's kind of setting in. And, um, she kept asking for methadone. I want methadone.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  Because she had detoxed before on methadone and, um, and so I go to this fucking house and I knock on the door and she's in the backseat. She's got her little backpack. And it's this fucking woman, like, butchy in, like, presence. She opens the door. She's like, just a matter of fact, where's your sis? And I'm like, oh, she's grabbing her bag. She's like, well, bring her here. I'm like, okay, uh, Shell's, let's go. She comes and Shell's is like, I need, doesn't say hi, nothing. She's like, I need methadone. And she goes, well, when did you use blah, blah, blah, and all this? And she tells her and she's like, oh, you haven't even bottomed out yet. We don't treat drugs with drugs here, honey.

• 47:05Speaker 01

  You're gonna, you're gonna have some Gatorade and some topical muscle relaxer. And you're gonna sweat this out. And she, it's funny now, but Shelby goes to her knees. And she's like, I need methadone. She goes, no, no, no. What did I just say? And she's like, you getting Gatorade, muscle relaxer, and you're gonna watch some movies. And you can smoke, no phone. She was incredible. Four and a half days later, she called me and she's like, your sister's good. Bring her to a sober living just by Venice High. And it's thirty thou, like when someone's fucking almost ready to go, you're, I'll do anything, right? And they know this.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  And so it's thirty thousand for the month. And it's sober living, you'll have one session, which isn't enough, uh, cause she has some trauma. And, um, uh, with a psych. And I was like, One in thirty days? One every week. Oh. And I was like, we need a lot more than one a week. And, um, so I draw, and my sis was a runner. And, uh, so you sign this fucking contract and it's like, if she runs, if she leaves, if she does this, this, this and that, you, she's out. We kick her out and we keep your money. Two hours in, gone. I get a call. Yeah.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  I get a call from this LA number and I'm like, no fucking way. Okay, there's thirty grand gone. I'm gonna find another one. She went to another one, little better, cool. Yeah, I got twice a week. Two days later, she runs again. So I'm down sixty-five K in Three days. And I'm like bleeding cash. And then I figure out like another spot. She stayed like thirty days, relapsed. And then, um, yeah, she kept relapsing and then, uh, multiple times Narcan up in Calabasas, there's a place and she left. And, uh, this one girl, she had, uh, night terrors.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  And um, so they would, she had, I would walk around, Joe, with this fucking uh Ziploc bag of pills of like antidepressants for her night terrors, sleeping pills, all these things to just take away this trauma for whatever beat it would be within her, right? And there's an amazing doc up there and South African guy that deals with women addicts and trauma. And uh, she was there for a while and that was really great and she got a hold of these sleeping pills and they're supposed to give you one every night. And the girl put the bottle up on the little half door.

• 49:58Speaker 01

  You know, those doors, swinging doors, yeah. And um, so she grabbed the bottle. And she was, as a lot of these sober livings are, they're pretty incestuous and in the guys sleep with the girls, vice versa, obviously, and um, she was dating a kid named Mike there. And so she went to that part of the house and said goodbye to Mike. And to this kid's credit, um, he was like, that's a little weird. You didn't say goodnight, you just said goodbye. And so she goes up, hammers sixty something sleeping pills. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, and uh, he goes and tells, he's like, hey, this ain't right. You gotta go check on her.

• 50:40Speaker 01

  So, long story short, called the ambulance and the medic to his credit is like, go grab the fucking bottle. And uh, grabs a bottle and shows this medic and he's like, we're pumping her stomach right now in the ambulance. And um, what saved her life were their time release.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Isn't that fucking crazy? Wow. Yeah, wild. So I got this call and I lost my mind for giving her uh, the bottle. Um, but yeah, she, at that point, she kinda just

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Fucking ran again, went to a drug house. She hates using needles so someone would shoot her up. Yeah, so as you know, if you're fucking sober ninety-two days, whatever it was, if you use what you were using before, you're fucking gone. Cause your tolerance is gone. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they dropped, it's a fucking movie. They dropped her off at the stoop of this hospital. And she got an R can. I didn't know any of this part. I didn't, I wasn't privy to this yet. I'm just driving around looking for her. And, uh, anyway, she's, just to go back to that environment, I'm like, I'm out of money. We gotta, I gotta send you back home to Vancouver. And she's like, you put me to Vancouver, I'm gonna die.

• 51:59Speaker 01

  And I'm like, well, it ain't working well here either. And, uh, she was at a psych ward on Thirty Fourth and Lamar. Uh, that was a fucked up story, but, um, for like ten days. Um, but anyway, she got, she went to this place called the Westy House in New Westminster, just outside Vancouver and it was a women's only and she was there. She ran there and I got her back in and she got clean and hasn't looked back since. Ran again. I know, man. Phew. Vancouver. Phone calls must be rough. I was, I didn't even know what Al-Anon was. And, uh, I was at Three Sixty Bridge. There's a church just across Three Sixty Bridge.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  And, uh, I was at this Al-Anon and, uh, and I'm waiting, I didn't, Shell's has been gone. So I'm waiting for the call of like, okay, she's finally overdosed and gone. And so I'm a mess. And I'm in Al-Anon, just waiting for this call. And I'm judging everybody in this fucking Al-Anon. Like, there's this woman across from me, she's like, yeah, my husband, he used and, um, yeah, I got Christmas with him. And I'm like, fuck, that's easy day. I'm like, you don't even know what the fuck I'm dealing with over here, you know? And then you hear another story and you're like, that's bullshit. You guys are pussies.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  All in my head. And so I just listen. It does help or help me a lot. And I come out and this one guy, he's like, hey, you're heavy. You gotta, you wanna talk or anything? You didn't say a word in there. And I'm like, right when he said that, my sis called and she was downtown Vancouver and she had just used and got scared straight. Some guy had followed her and sexually abused a friend of hers in front of her. And she's like, I can't do this no more. So she was scared straight.

• 53:57Joe Rogan?

  So that's what got her so hurt?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  She got, she was downtown Vancouver, called me and she's like, can you get me back in Westy House? And I call Susan was her name and call her back and I'm throwing everything. I'm like, I will fucking support you guys. Can you give us a bed? Can you get her one more time? I know she's not allowed back and all this. And she goes, I'll call you back. And she got.

• 54:21Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by the mosquito bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part, it's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights and starring Nicholas Galatzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Believe it or not, the holiday season is

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  here again, and that means you might need to fill some seasonal roles, fast. Maybe you need extra cashiers or stockers, or maybe something more unique like a lead elf, or an expert gift wrapper, or a Zamboni driver. Whoever you're looking for, whatever skills you need to power through the rest of the year, ZipRecruiter is one of the best places to start your search because you can try it for. For free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. And because ZipRecruiter helps sort through thousands of resumes and applications, showing you the most qualified and interesting ones first. There's even an option for candidates to explain why they want the job.

• 55:50Joe Rogan?

  Let ZipRecruiter find the right people for your roles, seasonal or otherwise. Try it for free today at ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/rogan. Meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Got her bed and she was there nine months.

• 56:09Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:11Joe Rogan?

  So what was it that finally kept her sober? Did she say?

• 56:17Speaker 01

  That's a fucking good question.

• 56:18Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, can you tell Jeff to bring in the coffee?

• 56:22Speaker 01

  Um, that's a good question. I know at times it was like, she is, we have nieces and nephews and she wanted to get clean for them, but that didn't last. I think it was that moment of getting scared straight, like you just can't keep doing this.

• 56:44Joe Rogan?

  Rock bottom.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's so subjective, right?

• 56:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 56:50Speaker 01

  We all know somebody that's like, I stopped drinking yesterday.

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 56:53Speaker 01

  Done.

• 56:54Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  Like my buddy over there, you just met. It's just like, he went for a few weeks and he hasn't had booze since. And it's like, sometimes it just clicks and they're like, fuck this life, I don't want it anymore. And some just can't break that habit. But yeah.

• 57:11Joe Rogan?

  It varies so much.

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 57:13Joe Rogan?

  Thanks, Jamie.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, she's a lot like me too, super, I'll steal some.

• 57:19Joe Rogan?

  Get some, dog.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  Thanks, man. Um, yeah, it's a beautiful story.

• 57:26Joe Rogan?

  It is because it ends, but it ends well.

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  But it very well couldn't have.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  I know.

• 57:31Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if that guy didn't say goodbye? What is goodbye? Why goodbye? What the fuck's going on? Yeah, that one guy probably saved your sister's life.

• 57:39Speaker 01

  And I want to fucking kill that guy, by the way. Because he relapsed with her and used with her at that drug house.

• 57:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  I know, man. So that like for me is a big part of Howlers Ridge. And then with the vets is we just chatted. I love these guys and the families. And so hopefully we'll have, you talk about Iba game. I know we can't do that in Montana. Yet, hopefully, but I hope up there on Howlers Ridge, we can, maybe in a year or two, we'll see what happens. That we can do some of that up there.

• 58:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think it's gonna be so effective in Texas that it's gonna spread. And I think the fact that they're starting with veterans.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:22Joe Rogan?

  Because these guys don't get any support.

• 58:26Speaker 01

  I know.

• 58:27Joe Rogan?

  You think about what they have to go through when they go off to war, with the things that they experience. And then they come back and they've lost friends and they've seen their buddies get blown up in front of them. And they're, they just, they're all fucked up and then they're hooked on pills.

• 58:42Speaker 01

  And the pills are just, you can Cookie Monster a fucking jar if you want and they'll refill you like. And there's different outlets like Virginia, Hawaii, Florida, doctors in each one that are sending you.

• 58:54Joe Rogan?

  Yep, yep.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  And it's, that's, you, literally at your doorstep, you're getting these jars of pills. It's like you're giving, and these guys obviously have addictive personalities. That's what makes them so fucking great.

• 59:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  That's one thing like.

• 59:09Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird thing, right? The addictive tendency can actually make you great at something.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, beautiful, right?

• 59:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  If you use it.

• 59:18Joe Rogan?

  If you harness it, but it can go sideways on you, which is really weird.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  It is. That's one thing, and it's funny because it, not that I'm cocky or was cocky with Dark Wolf, but I had played this guy already before and I lose my trident in it. And Mendoza's kinda getting the parade rest ready and the whole ceremony ready for it. And he's just a brother of mine and.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  And it was a big moment that I learned because these workups, say you work up on a Thursday and you go at 2am to 7am and you go take a couple guys out and you come back, whatever, celebrate, probably get, have a few drinks and then you have another workup on Tuesday. But let's say you and I go in the fight and I die on that Thursday op. You're back in workup Tuesday morning. So this is one thing that really kind of punched me when I was talking to Mendoza because he was talking about some stories where he lost somebody and I was like, there's literally no fucking time to mourn. There's no time to register the loss of this.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  So you're just harnessing this pain and this, all these emotions.

• 1:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:34Speaker 01

  And you're just like, okay, I guess I'm back in the fight. And I'm going to do this for at least another few months before I'm out on my six month tour. And that really kind of knocked me out and that set me free to play this guy a lot more like just knee jerk emotion and way more of a live wire. Because it's like, who, we talk about how subjective mourning is. You know, it's like everyone mourns differently.

• 1:01:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:03Speaker 01

  So it's like, I just made that choice with Ben of just like, this guy's just a fucking mess. And let him just emotionally make these decisions then. And that's where I took him.

• 1:01:14Joe Rogan?

  Did you have conversations with other vets that were addicts and that were fucked up from war? And just had all sorts of different kinds of ways of dealing with trauma?

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  All the time, all the time. It's so common.

• 1:01:28Joe Rogan?

  It's insanely common.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:30Joe Rogan?

  It only makes sense. It would be crazy if it wasn't common.

• 1:01:33Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah, you're right.

• 1:01:34Joe Rogan?

  Just think of what you're asking them to do.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  I know. And we don't know the half of it.

• 1:01:38Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  We really don't.

• 1:01:39Joe Rogan?

  We don't know any of it. We don't experience, if you don't physically experience it, you're just making things up.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I mean,

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  I think obviously with Red Wings and stuff like that with Lone, but then you talk to these guys in between takes. And they're pretty transparent, which is beautiful that they're talking about it and all this, but it's like, where are they putting this fucking energy after they're out? Like they gotta find another purpose that's so fucking heightened when you're serving. There's no bigger purpose. You're fucking killing bad guys. Like that's incredible with your brothers right next to you. Like that's a heavy fucking thing to carry. And then when they come out, now what? I'm gonna go walk fucking Walmart and

• 1:02:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:02:26Speaker 01

  just be a dad and that's just a whole nother life?

• 1:02:30Joe Rogan?

  That's one of the things I really loved about Hurt Locker.

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, fuck me.

• 1:02:33Joe Rogan?

  It was such a good movie.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:35Joe Rogan?

  And it was so good, the way he explained, or the way it played out, how this guy just could not go back to normal. Like it just wasn't working. He didn't give a fuck. He'd rather be back out there.

• 1:02:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:50Joe Rogan?

  Downrange.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  I mean, you look at Marcus too. After Red Wings, he went back to Ramadi.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Which is wanted to die with his boots on. I mean, these guys are fucking, this is kind of the UFC, right? Of like, these guys are modern day fucking gladiators, warriors. And I know they're not in the front lines or downrange, but it's like you got a guy like Marcus or the Mendoza or these guys that are just truly born warriors. There's just a, they are a different breed.

• 1:03:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's why they get it through buds too.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:21Joe Rogan?

  You gotta be a different kind of human.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, more mental than physical.

• 1:03:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  I mean, Mendoza was running buds too, and he would say, a lot of times you look at these fucking scrawny guys.

• 1:03:32Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Those are the ones that make it.

• 1:03:33Speaker 01

  And then you got the D1 athletes

• 1:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:36Speaker 01

  that haven't had or gone through a whole lot because they're gifted athletically. Up here though, they're not as strong. And that fucking scrawny guy over there is bringing that D1 athlete with him.

• 1:03:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, those stories are.

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  It's kind of the case with fighters too sometimes. Sometimes it's the guys that aren't talented that wind up being champions because they're just, they're tougher and they work harder.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57Joe Rogan?

  Because they don't have it given to them easily. You know, they can't half ass in the gym. They have to be all in.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's the life, right? It's the sacrifice, what are you willing to do?

• 1:04:09Joe Rogan?

  And you, you, you know, you have to be all in in that job, both jobs.

• 1:04:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and comfort can kill you.

• 1:04:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, in everybody's life.

• 1:04:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I hate it.

• 1:04:20Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 1:04:22Joe Rogan?

  I hate it. I would have thought that one day that I'd be wealthy and that I'd be just fucking chilling and going to the beach, like, no.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  Now you're going even harder.

• 1:04:30Joe Rogan?

  Cold plunge every morning and, yeah, no, I fucking hate it. I think it's the enemy.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 1:04:36Joe Rogan?

  The enemy of happiness.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Joe Rogan?

  Really is.

• 1:04:39Speaker 01

  Like, me with acting, it's, like, I live for it, I love it. And I honestly do believe I've just worked my way through stubbornly. Like, I'll just outwork people. It's not like I was gifted this talent, or it truly isn't. I'll just outwork people. And then now, it's like, forty-four now, which is crazy. And, um, now I'm starting to be like, okay, you're thinking about kids, you're thinking about, I need a little more balance. But then I start this balance, and it scares the fuck out of me, and I don't like it.

• 1:05:15Joe Rogan?

  How does this scare you?

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  Just, it's the comfort, right? It's like, oh, kids, don't take this, just go keep fly fishing, keep, you know, just go on a motorcycle trip, go, which is great, and I'll still do it. But I'm just so conscious of it, of like, don't get fucking comfortable, don't think, don't rest on your work, you know?

• 1:05:34Joe Rogan?

  Comfort's not bad if you earn it.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:36Joe Rogan?

  But you gotta earn the fuck out of it. Where, like, when you're sitting on that couch, you know that you actually need to recover. Like, if you're gonna keep going, you need to recover, so like, watching South Park is probably good for you.

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  Actually like medicine.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:51Joe Rogan?

  You know, just fucking, let me just zone out and jiggle.

• 1:05:54Speaker 01

  True, true. But there is that, I think, I don't know, do you have that with the fear of failure still, of just like?

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Of it all falling apart?

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  That, and like, I'm on set in two weeks and I'm fucking scared.

• 1:06:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  And it's a heavy role, shit ton of dialogue.

• 1:06:13Joe Rogan?

  That's because you're doing the right thing.

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:06:16Joe Rogan?

  It's what you're supposed to be doing.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  But I can't sit on that fucking couch, because I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, kids?

• 1:06:22Joe Rogan?

  Well, now you can't sit on the couch, because it's getting ready to be go time.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Joe Rogan?

  But that's why you, you're doing what you do. I mean, you, you have to be a little scared of what you do. You have to be.

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:34Joe Rogan?

  Like Monday, I'm going elk hunting.

• 1:06:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Joe Rogan?

  Kind of freaking out, which I always do, because it's hard.

• 1:06:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:06:39Joe Rogan?

  It's, I got in shape, I got like, did a lot of cardio, a lot of leg workouts, because you're going, you're huffing it up those mountains. I shot three hours of arrows today.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Fuck.

• 1:06:49Joe Rogan?

  Three fucking arrows, I'm pulling, three hours, I'm pulling back an eighty pound bow.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  No joke.

• 1:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, it's a lot of work, man. I work hard, but it's because when it's there, you want to be prepared.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Joe Rogan?

  So, leading up to it, I get like fucking super serious. I get like really like where it's, it's with me all day long.

• 1:07:08Speaker 01

  I know it, I know it.

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  With me, I'm putting on my underwear, with me, I'm sitting in the cold plunge, I'm thinking about the mountains.

• 1:07:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:15Joe Rogan?

  It's a hard thing to do, and that's why I do it, because I love it, and, but it's also because it's a hard thing to do. And when you're getting ready to do like a role, that's like a fucking intense role, the nerves are a good thing, they're your friend.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, truly, keeps you honest.

• 1:07:28Joe Rogan?

  Feeling, you can't eat, like, that's, that's your friend.

• 1:07:31Speaker 01

  Or you're looking through my girlfriend.

• 1:07:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're barely listening.

• 1:07:35Speaker 01

  Running lines, fucking, what if I do this in this scene?

• 1:07:38Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh. But they want to talk about Taylor Swift's engagement ring. Like, I can't, I can't hear.

• 1:07:46Speaker 01

  And then you're an asshole.

• 1:07:47Joe Rogan?

  Right, like, what did you say? You're not listening. I was, I was listening, I just spaced out for a second, I'm sorry.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then you go back to being spaced out after apologizing. Or I'll just literally be like, I'm going on a bike ride, and I'm gone for two, three hours, and then I'm running shit in my head, or... It's so true, but it's the same, I equate it to like when we're rolling, it's like, you ain't hiding no more, kid. You're fucking, you're in it, it's the same thing, once you get exposed to that elk, it's like, this is your fucking moment.

• 1:08:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're in it.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  We're gonna see if you did the work.

• 1:08:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent, yeah. I think people, everyone needs something like that, but it scares people, so they shy away from it. And they look towards something that's guaranteed, you get a guaranteed paycheck, it's easy, it's simple, but that's the, that's, that's your enemy.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:37Joe Rogan?

  That's how, that's how your life becomes this just dull shade of gray.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I know.

• 1:08:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not good. You're very fortunate. You're very fortunate. You've been able to do what you love and that what you love is, you know, it's, it's very exciting.

• 1:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Joe Rogan?

  Like, and it's very exciting to other people. It's very rewarding. Like, I do, I fucking loved you in American Primeval.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  Oh, thanks.

• 1:09:01Joe Rogan?

  That role, phew.

• 1:09:02Speaker 01

  That was my Gladiator now.

• 1:09:04Joe Rogan?

  That was intense. That one scene where you're getting changed and you see all the fucking cuts all over your body.

• 1:09:10Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:10Joe Rogan?

  You're like, like, whoa.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:09:13Joe Rogan?

  Like, it just-

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  That scene, I lost a bunch of weight for it. Um, and then Howard Berger did my makeup for that and he's fucking incredible. And, uh, that scene, man, um-

• 1:09:25Joe Rogan?

  That scene meant a lot because-

• 1:09:27Speaker 01

  It's everything.

• 1:09:28Joe Rogan?

  You saw who that guy is, raw, naked.

• 1:09:30Speaker 01

  With his Shoshone brother and wakes up with the-

• 1:09:33Joe Rogan?

  Starving, covered in scars.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  And then goes into that, uh, teepee with the chief, the mother of his wife that he lost. And I wrote that scene, man.

• 1:09:44Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:09:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And so Pete, Pete and I came up with It's Only Pain. And then I, I broke my foot and got a fucking bone cut out of it on this, that show. And you know the scene where-

• 1:09:57Joe Rogan?

  You got a bone cut out of it?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Joe Rogan?

  Why'd they cut a bone out?

• 1:10:00Speaker 01

  So, there's a scene where I go down to get horses and I kill five or six guys at this skinning camp and I think it's episode two. And Betty Gilpin, who's amazing, comes down and she's like, didn't trust me and she comes down, I have to kill these guys. During that sequence, uh, I broke this, my foot and they call cut and I go to, uh, Dash and all, the stunt coordinator. And, um, I'm like, oh, it's broken. And he's like, I've worked with him for 15 years and he's like, don't fuck with me. And I'm like, no, Dash, it's broken. I got this shooting pain in my groin. And he's like, get the fuck out of here.

• 1:10:41Speaker 01

  And I'm like, yeah. So, finish the scene and they, they spray fucking bio freeze on my foot. And I'm like, guys. It's broken, like I'm fucked. And so I go to Bozeman and he's like, it's this small bone right on the side of your foot, right there. That goes up and down right here.

• 1:11:00Joe Rogan?

  Next to your toe?

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  Uh, connecting my big toe. It's on the side bone on my big toe.

• 1:11:06Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 1:11:06Speaker 01

  And uh, so he's like, oh, you can wear a boot. It's a small bone, so you won't need to, it'll heal itself. So I go back and I'm in a boot doing this fucking show. And I got a six foot six, uh, Wrangler. So when I get off that horse, 90% of the time, I think his name's BJ. Great dude, big cowboy, um. And he's below me off camera, taking my weight. Cause I can't step off the horse, cause I'm in a fucking boot.

• 1:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Medical boot.

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, uh, six weeks goes by or a month and I go back to Bozeman and take my boot off and, uh. He does one last x-ray and he's like, you need to be in surgery today.

• 1:11:49Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 1:11:50Speaker 01

  That's what I said. That's a shitty call to Netflix and Pete and, um. So I got surgery and then right before surgery, um.

• 1:12:01Speaker 01

  He's like, we can pin it, but you're gonna be super active. And it may not take, or I can cut it out and put bone wax on it.

• 1:12:10Joe Rogan?

  Bone wax?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, didn't know there was a thing of that either. I don't know either.

• 1:12:17Joe Rogan?

  So you just said cut it?

• 1:12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Joe Rogan?

  Cause you wanted to go back to work?

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:20Joe Rogan?

  So they cut a chunk of bone off and then what is bone wax?

• 1:12:24Speaker 01

  I think it just is a protective coating over it. Ooh, look at this.

• 1:12:28Joe Rogan?

  Commonly supplied and sterile sticks usually require softening before it can be applied. It's generally made of beeswax. Softening agent uses paraffin or petroleum jelly and it's smeared across the bleeding edge of the bone. Blocking the holes and causing immediate bone hemostasis.

• 1:12:46Speaker 01

  Still don't know what it means.

• 1:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Well, I don't know what this mean is. Is a tamponade, tamponade effect? The closure of blockage as if by a tampon, especially to stop bleeding. You have a tampon on your foot, bro.

• 1:12:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do.

• 1:12:59Joe Rogan?

  Wow, that's crazy.

• 1:13:01Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:13:02Joe Rogan?

  So, does your foot fuck with you now?

• 1:13:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, uh, if I'm fly fishing or on uneven ground, it's, or if I'm doing, you know, if I'm tracking or doing something, uh, side healing, which I fucking hate.

• 1:13:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Side hill hiking, I hate it. I have a terrible knee as well. That's where it bites. Yeah.

• 1:13:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  And then, um, yeah, so I dealt with that. We had to, I had to be on the couch for six weeks, but my first day back was those two scenes and I had called Pete and I'm like, hey, I wrote this scene. I'd love, because that scene was exposition with my mom at first. We were talking about red feather and stuff. And, uh, I'm like, this is my first day back after losing them that I haven't seen her since I've lost her daughter and her grandson. So this guy can't get through anything. Uh, so that was the crutch and thank you for noticing. That's the crutch of that whole arc to that guy.

• 1:13:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was an intense scene because it was so realistic.

• 1:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, like, well, that's what a guy would look like. Like, I hate when you see someone who looks like they've been living an easy life.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:08Joe Rogan?

  And they take their shirt off when they're supposed to be like in some rugged outdoor environment. It just looks soft. Yeah.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Or he's stacked and looks incredible. Nice tan.

• 1:14:17Joe Rogan?

  Gym, yeah, eating creatine. No, you, you look like a hard man. Like a hard man who's been through some fucking hand-to-hand combat. It looked very realistic.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:28Joe Rogan?

  Did you have to starve yourself for that?

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Joe Rogan?

  How much did you have to lose?

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

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• 1:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Just to get hungry looking.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  I had time, which was great.

• 1:16:25Speaker 01

  I lost 30 for that.

• 1:16:26Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:27Joe Rogan?

  That's a lot of weight.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. But I had done it. I did this one film called The Bang Bang Club. Here I was just living off Lamar here. And I play this drug addicted. True story about these war photographers right before the during the apartheid, right before the first free election, Mandela's election. Kevin Carter is his name. He won a Pulitzer for this epic shot that he took. Got a lot of flak for it and ended up taking his own life.

• 1:16:57Speaker 01

  But that I had 30 days to prep and I lost 35 in 30 days. And I remember going just over I 35 here to this dock and my heart rate was fucking low twenties.

• 1:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Oh God.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  Cause all I was doing was running, coffee and I would. The broth can be super salty, sodium heavy. So I'd filter that and then just have broth and broccoli for dinner.

• 1:17:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god, you're starving yourself.

• 1:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was bad. And then I got a thyroid problem from that. And that doc, that doc was like, um, hey, you're gonna fail this, uh, physical. Just so you know. And I'm like, what do I gotta do? I'm going to Africa next week. And he's like, do some pushups. So I did pushups and got my heart rate into the low 40s. And he's like, okay.

• 1:17:47Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:17:48Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:17:49Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:17:51Speaker 01

  I was hurting on that.

• 1:17:52Joe Rogan?

  You were probably kinda dying.

• 1:17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:55Joe Rogan?

  That's nuts, dude.

• 1:17:56Speaker 01

  And then I was hurting. They would shoot me out on Bang Bang Club, like just shoot your coverage and go. Go back to bed. And then I ended up getting a nutritionist there. And she helped me a little bit, but that was a quick shoot. But um, that's where I think I fucked my body on that one.

• 1:18:14Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  And then Koresh again, lost weight for that.

• 1:18:18Joe Rogan?

  That was great, by the way.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 1:18:19Joe Rogan?

  That fucking whole Koresh story is so crazy.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  I know, man.

• 1:18:23Joe Rogan?

  What is it like doing that movie? Cause it's another real life.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. That was, I was just prepping right there too. Um. That was almost too long a prep. Here's me saying I love prep, but I had six months to get into that headspace. And it just, the last month I tried to pull out of the show.

• 1:18:43Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I was just, this is, I was just, you're holding, hoarding all this energy. And you, I lost the weight, learning to play guitar and sing, which was a fucking comedy. Um, I'm fucking terrible.

• 1:18:57Joe Rogan?

  He was terrible too, though.

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he was. That literally helped me. I would listen to Dave and I'd be like, wow.

• 1:19:04Joe Rogan?

  That guy sucked.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, he shit.

• 1:19:08Joe Rogan?

  I have no idea how he got people to follow him with that fucking terrible singing. If I was in that call, they'd go, yo, we gotta reevaluate. This guy is not Christ. He is not the leader.

• 1:19:19Speaker 01

  He's actually kinda fucking terrible, right? Should we leave?

• 1:19:21Joe Rogan?

  He sucks. His fucking music sucks.

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  But.

• 1:19:27Joe Rogan?

  Just, what is it like getting in the headspace of someone who's that depraved too? And, and who has that kind of like sick control over people?

• 1:19:39Speaker 01

  Why? Figure out the why. Why?

• 1:19:41Joe Rogan?

  Did you figure it out?

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:19:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  Um, go to his childhood, which was fucking terrible.

• 1:19:48Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:19:50Joe Rogan?

  You don't become a cult leader if everything's awesome when you're a kid.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  Two great, healthy parents.

• 1:19:56Joe Rogan?

  Always giving you hugs.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  Siblings.

• 1:19:59Joe Rogan?

  And you decide to be a cult leader? No.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. He memorized the Bible by fifteen.

• 1:20:03Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  Which is fucking.

• 1:20:05Joe Rogan?

  That's intense.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  That says enough right there.

• 1:20:07Joe Rogan?

  That's intense.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  But he was like tied to a radiator on his birthday and like abused pretty hard and, um.

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  I almost bought his car.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Oh, my God. I tried buying his bike.

• 1:20:18Joe Rogan?

  Pulling the trigger on his car. He had a nineteen sixty-eight Camaro and a buddy of mine texted me and said, yo, David Koresh's car for sale. And he knows I'm a car head. And I'm like, oh, I love cars, especially old muscle cars.

• 1:20:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Joe Rogan?

  I got a bunch of them. And I have a sixty-nine Camaro. And I was thinking about, at the time, I didn't have any Camaros. But I was thinking about getting like a sixty-eight or a sixty-nine or a sixty-seven. I like the sixty-nine's a little more, a little wide body. But, uh, then I found out it was Koresh's car. I was like, whoa, that'd be wild to drive to the Comedy Store in David Koresh's Mustang.

• 1:20:48Speaker 01

  In Texas.

• 1:20:49Joe Rogan?

  Or his David Koresh's Camaro, rather. But then I thought about it. I said, you know what? I don't want it. I don't want anything from that guy. I don't want that energy. I don't want, I don't want to hold his steering wheel. I don't want to sit in his seat. I don't want it. I don't want it. Also, what a piece of shit. That guy's a preacher. He's driving around in a muscle car. Like, for sure, right there and then. Terrible singing and muscle car.

• 1:21:12Speaker 01

  Ego, little bit of an ego.

• 1:21:13Joe Rogan?

  A lot of ego. I mean, not that you can't enjoy, I love them. I think they're one of the greatest accomplishments of American engineering in terms of like a piece of functional artwork.

• 1:21:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:24Joe Rogan?

  American muscle cars. I love them.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  I'm that way with motor, motorcycles too. And I got to set, we shot actually in, uh, Waco wanted nothing to do with us. So, yeah, rightfully so. So we shot that in Santa Fe.

• 1:21:38Joe Rogan?

  Like to change that.

• 1:21:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, man. And, uh.

• 1:21:41Joe Rogan?

  Waco's a great town, by the way.

• 1:21:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:44Joe Rogan?

  It's great.

• 1:21:44Speaker 01

  It's grown like enormously too. Um, but, um, yeah, his motorcycle came for sale and obviously they knew we were making it. I kicked tires on it and they wanted just, it was probably worth two grand. They wanted fifteen or something and it was just like, go fuck yourself.

• 1:22:01Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:22:02Speaker 01

  And what honestly, like you just said, what am I gonna do with his moto?

• 1:22:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was silly at first and then after a while I'll be like, I can't do this.

• 1:22:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I, when, before we opened up the comedy mothership in town, I was under contract for this place called the One World Theater that was also owned by a cult.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Here?

• 1:22:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  No way.

• 1:22:22Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the One World Theater, you know where it is?

• 1:22:23Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  It's on B Cave? Well, this is what's fucked up about the story. Ron White performed there once, cause they have concerts there. And Ron White did stand up and we were talking about opening up a club and he said, you should buy that place down on B Cave. It's the fucking shit. Beautiful theater, I think it's for sale. I played there once, it's amazing. I was like, alright, Ron White's the fucking man. If he tells me, I'll go check it out and I check it out and I'm like, yeah, we could do this, let's do it. And so, signed the contracts, all that. And then I get a call from my friend Adam, he goes, hey, did you ever watch the documentary on that cult? I'm like, oh no. There's a documentary? The documentary's called Holy Hell and it's about a guy who is a gay porn star and a hypnotist. That was a yoga instructor.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  Oh my god, checking every box.

• 1:23:07Joe Rogan?

  Yep. So it's yoga instructor in Hollywood and then the cult in Waco gets taken down. And then he is on the run now because now the cult awareness network starts going after all these cults. After Waco, they're like, hey, you know, people's children are getting kidnapped essentially by these fucking maniacs. And, you know, winds up being like, Waco, we gotta stop these cults. And so, he moves to Austin and changes his name. And has a, you know, this is the 90s, you could get away with changing your name.

• 1:23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Nobody, no internet.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:40Joe Rogan?

  And so this guy has his followers build him this theater so he can dance in front of them.

• 1:23:45Speaker 01

  Holy.

• 1:23:45Joe Rogan?

  The documentary is bananas. And I see the documentary, I'm like, oh my god, I gotta get out of this. After I see the documentary, I'm like, I gotta get out of this deal, I gotta get out. And fortunately, there was a problem. Fortunately, there was a problem, cause you know, you got a bunch of cult members building that place. They're not gonna do it to code.

• 1:24:02Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:24:03Joe Rogan?

  And so it was.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Just like his residence.

• 1:24:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there was a lot of shit that was wrong, a lot of wacky shit, they didn't wanna pay for it. I'm like, let's just.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Joe Rogan?

  So it cost me a little bit of money and I got out of it. And then we eventually got the Ritz on Sixth Street. And that's the perfect spot anyway. But it was the thing of being in that building, knowing what happened, I'm like, I can't handle this.

• 1:24:25Speaker 01

  Different energy there.

• 1:24:26Joe Rogan?

  A hundred, 200 people wasted their life with this asshole for 20 fucking years. And there was a bunch of them crying at the end of the documentary. Like, I lost my life, my life is meaningless now. I thought I was gonna be with them forever, now I'm a dog walker, I'm like, oh my god.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:24:44Joe Rogan?

  I can't carry that in this club, I can't feel it.

• 1:24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, no.

• 1:24:47Joe Rogan?

  I'd have to tear the building down.

• 1:24:49Speaker 01

  In a comedy club.

• 1:24:50Joe Rogan?

  I just thought it'd be silly. You know, oh, building built by a cult, perfect, we'll take it. But the reality is, every cult winds up being the same thing. The guy wants all the money and he wants to fuck everybody. It's almost every one of them has the same profile.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  And fear-based.

• 1:25:06Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Always.

• 1:25:07Joe Rogan?

  Always fear-based, always everybody else is the enemy, I'm the solution. The nutty thing about this guy, though, is that he would do this thing to these people called the knowing. And you had to earn it. And when you earned it, it was this very special ceremonious moment. And he would put his hands on their head and he would do something to them. And these people would feel God, they would experience God. And I know that it has to be some sort of a placebo effect or psychosomatic, something where your brain triggers this energy. But all these people that called him a fraud, that fucking hate. I wasted my life. They all talked about that moment like it was the greatest moment of their life still.

• 1:25:49Joe Rogan?

  They're like, I gained a connection to God and to the universe. That to this day was the most profound and loving moment of my life. It's like, yeah, the guy was a total piece of shit. Scam artist, con man, liar, everything was wrong. Yet, he was still capable of doing that thing to them.

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  Condition them over the years.

• 1:26:13Joe Rogan?

  Well, he had them thinking about the moment that it was gonna come one day. And then he would take it away from them and then, and then one person would get it and they would all sit around and watch. And they're like, when am I gonna get it? But when they got it, they would all be like, oh. It's, cause we know that the brain produces psychedelic chemicals. And I guess you can trick it. Which is I think what a near death experience is. I think a near death experience, your body, your body's like, it's over, flood the gates.

• 1:26:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:41Joe Rogan?

  And then.

• 1:26:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 1:26:43Joe Rogan?

  It rolls through and then you, you know, you go down the tunnel and light and all the jazz and you meet dead people.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Joe Rogan?

  This is, I think this is possible with everybody. You just have to achieve the right state of mind.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  I know people in Kundalini yoga, the people that are like heavy into it can fucking completely trip balls.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:27:01Joe Rogan?

  I had a buddy of mine who had done DMT.

• 1:27:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  And then he really, he'd done DMT a couple of times. So he knew what the experience was. And then he really got into Kundalini yoga. And he was doing it for like six months and then.

• 1:27:12Speaker 01

  What is Kundalini?

• 1:27:13Joe Rogan?

  It's a very specific kind of yoga that involves like deep breath work and there's a lot of like head bobbing. It's very strange, but. It's, you achieve a DMT like state. He's like, you achieve a full on psychedelic experience doing Kundalini. I was like, whoa. And I've always thought about like trying it, practicing it. I'm like, eh.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:34Joe Rogan?

  I don't have the time. I don't have the time. It's just, I'm too busy. I can't think about some new thing to be obsessed with, but. But it's, my point is that there is some little trigger in your brain that if you can trick your brain into snapping over to on. It just.

• 1:27:51Speaker 01

  I believe that part.

• 1:27:54Joe Rogan?

  This fucking cult guy did it to those people.

• 1:27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Joe Rogan?

  As much as they hated him, as much as they knew he was a fraud, he fucked everybody.

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:00Joe Rogan?

  The crazy thing is like, they didn't know that everybody was getting fucked. And so like, one guy leaves the cult and he sends out this group email. Like, hey, this guy's been hypnotizing me and fucking me for like 10 years. And they're all like, I thought it was only me.

• 1:28:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  And then it became crazy where everybody had a story.

• 1:28:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:18Joe Rogan?

  Everybody had a story. He would charge them money for these experiences and then he'd fuck them.

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  Of course. Jesus.

• 1:28:24Joe Rogan?

  Hilarious, but terrible.

• 1:28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  And so, I didn't want that building. So, like I didn't want Koresh's car.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Let me look at that contract again, uh, no.

• 1:28:36Joe Rogan?

  So when you were getting close and you wanted to pull out, was it just the heaviness of carrying around this guy's weight?

• 1:28:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. And then I called my manager, Steph, and she's like, give it a day.

• 1:28:50Speaker 01

  And then the Dowdell brothers who wrote and directed, terrific guys. And, um, I called John. And I think one thing that set me free probably on month three, because I was really stuck on everything we've just said of like, why am I playing some guy that's pretty fucking reprehensible in a lot of ways?

• 1:29:10Joe Rogan?

  And a real person?

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:11Joe Rogan?

  Who did real damage to people.

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  But I was judging him. And that was like, really a big block for me because I couldn't understand him more. And so, once I started to not cast judgment or my own judgment on him and just trying to understand and root him. Then I was like, okay, I'm gonna fly now. Of like, this is his childhood, this is why he's doing this. And so, it's your guys' job can judge away and do all this, but for me to play this guy, I can't bring that to him.

• 1:29:44Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:46Speaker 01

  So that helped a lot.

• 1:29:47Joe Rogan?

  Gotta be that piece of shit.

• 1:29:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:29:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:49Speaker 01

  I gotta do it and try and root that.

• 1:29:51Joe Rogan?

  When you got done with the role, was it like a thing that you had to cast off yourself, like?

• 1:29:56Speaker 01

  Bang Bang Club fucked me. I was hurting pretty bad after. I didn't know my process very well and, uh, you know. Um, Kevin Carter was just really, really troubled. And I think it was Mandracks, which is an animal tranquilizer that he would take.

• 1:30:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 1:30:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he would have, um, night terrors and all this. There's photos of him, like, they called it the Bang Bang because they had these police scanners. And once they would, this is early nineties, uh, in South Africa. And once they heard it on the scanner, it's like a bang bang. And they would be there a lot of times before the cops, like some kind of civil rights or civil fight would happen. And they would get, hear it on the scanner and they'd go, like Scooby Doo kind of shit. They'd get there before the cops a lot of time or the military. And they'd be in the middle of this, shooting it, uh, photographing it.

• 1:30:51Speaker 01

  And you see pics of Kev that are just like him in like one shoe high, hiding behind like a fucking barrel in the middle of this gunfight. Like they would get really into it. And then he was a guy that just kind of took everything to heart. You know, of just, he would see some fucking pretty abysmal shit and just be like, take it, you know? Wear it. And, uh, it just hammered him. And so he would take these drugs and just to sleep and just to get over or get through it. Um, but yeah, that was really tough coming out of him just because I didn't know myself enough or process be able to really kind of separate.

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  Became a part of him?

• 1:31:35Speaker 01

  Yep. And then the weight and all that. And then with Dave, um, yeah, I was so ready to gain the weight back and just wipe my hands with it. I always go on a motorcycle trip after and that sets me free, helps me a lot. I'll write letters and just burn them. That helps a lot. They say when you're like, if I get therapy or something or it's like, write a letter and literally watch it burn. And that is something like, that's a, a mind trick, I'm sure. Just like if there's trauma or something.

• 1:32:09Joe Rogan?

  Figure out a way to let it go that way.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  Like a ceremonial purging.

• 1:32:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:32:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 1:32:15Joe Rogan?

  So that was, Bang Bang was harder than Karesh?

• 1:32:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. On me.

• 1:32:19Joe Rogan?

  Because you would like not, you hadn't been used to carrying around someone else's thoughts.

• 1:32:24Speaker 01

  Exactly. And that was the first time I started having really bad nightmares in South Africa. And um, and I just, that started fucking with me a lot. And then I was really happy it was only a four week shoot.

• 1:32:40Joe Rogan?

  Did you try that tranquilizer, whatever the fuck it is?

• 1:32:42Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:32:42Joe Rogan?

  Know what it's like?

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  No. I've only smoked weed three times in my life.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Nothing else?

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  Nothing else.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  Little booze?

• 1:32:48Speaker 01

  Little booze, yeah.

• 1:32:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 1:32:49Speaker 01

  Um, first time.

• 1:32:51Joe Rogan?

  But just weed?

• 1:32:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:32:53Speaker 01

  Savages, uh, with Oliver Stone.

• 1:32:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:32:58Joe Rogan?

  Oliver goes hard.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  He does.

• 1:33:00Joe Rogan?

  I was surprised he still smokes weed.

• 1:33:02Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:33:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:04Speaker 01

  And uh, I was in rehearsal and he asked me, and I hadn't smoked weed ever before.

• 1:33:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 1:33:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I'm playing this guy, this obviously a seal, but that smokes weed, grows weed, sells weed, gets into the cartel.

• 1:33:19Joe Rogan?

  And you smoked with Oliver Stone the first time?

• 1:33:21Speaker 01

  No, my first time, he gave me some of his medicinal. And I went with a buddy who smokes weed all the time and I was staying at the Shangri-La in Santa Monica while we were filming and my buddy bought, uh, brought over um, a bong, a water bong.

• 1:33:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh no.

• 1:33:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh no, that's not how you do it. If you're gonna do it the first time, this is what I tell you to do. Just go like this. That's it. That's it. Just a little hit. You gotta dip your toes in there.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  Drug is, is uh, also known as Quaaludes.

• 1:33:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, interesting. That's what Quaaludes are. Wow.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Quaaludes is a brand name for it. What does it say it's, it's doing to your brain? Uh, it's a muscle relaxer for insomnia. There you go.

• 1:34:06Joe Rogan?

  How do you say that word? Methaqualone? Methaqualone? Combination of drug known as Mandrak, sold primarily in Europe containing 250 milligrams of methaqualone and 20 milligrams of diphenhydramine. Diphenhydramine?

• 1:34:26Speaker 01

  In a single tablet.

• 1:34:28Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:34:30Speaker 01

  That is not.

• 1:34:30Joe Rogan?

  Commercial production was discontinued in many countries during the mid 1980s due to widespread misuse, addiction and associated public health concerns. Yeah, you know when a popular drug gets pulled.

• 1:34:43Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty bad.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was no joke.

• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  So just because that was the first time you'd ever tried carrying around someone's thoughts, that was why, because he was so fucked up.

• 1:34:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I was that actor where it was like, I gotta be in trauma too then.

• 1:34:56Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right.

• 1:34:58Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:34:59Joe Rogan?

  To be real.

• 1:34:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:00Joe Rogan?

  But it comes out, that's the fucked up thing.

• 1:35:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it does.

• 1:35:03Joe Rogan?

  It comes out in the role, like it seems real.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:35:05Joe Rogan?

  Like as nutty as Daniel Day-Lewis's process is, when that motherfucker is that guy and there will be blood, you believe it.

• 1:35:12Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:35:12Joe Rogan?

  I drink your milkshake. He's fucking there, man, he's dialed in.

• 1:35:18Speaker 01

  The best to do it.

• 1:35:19Joe Rogan?

  He's the best. But it's just that process has gotta be fucking soul crushing.

• 1:35:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:24Joe Rogan?

  Because you lose you.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Definitely.

• 1:35:26Joe Rogan?

  You lose you and now you're some fuck. This episode is brought to you by Simply Safe. With the excitement of the holidays, it's easy to forget the rate for burglaries goes up this time of the year. So let's talk about the solution, Simply Safe. They provide top-notch security, protect your home, your family, even your dog. I get how important it is to feel like your pets are safe at home alone, especially as you get roped into all the holiday madness. And the reason I say it's top-notch is because Simply Safe's security system protect your house 24/7 with agents that can intervene in less than 30 seconds. That early intervention is crucial in these situations.

• 1:36:08Joe Rogan?

  I've also partnered with Simply Safe to offer my listeners the biggest savings of the year, 70% off your new system with professional monitoring when you visit simplysafe.com/rogan. That's simplysafe.com/rogan. And write in the Joe Rogan Experience at checkout, that really helps the show. Simply Safe, ahead of crime, in real time. This episode is brought to you by Tacovas. The holidays are coming up and if you've got a pretty high bar for what's going under the tree this year, check out Tacovas. These guys make some of the best western boots you can get. They're made by hand, designed in Austin, Texas, and they're incredibly durable. Plus, they're super comfortable, right out of the box.

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• 1:37:29Joe Rogan?

  Dumb person like David Koresh.

• 1:37:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. Having nightmares, living in a fucking mini hotel room in South Africa. Like lonely as fuck. Yeah, it's no joke. That was no joke, but I've learned my process a lot more.

• 1:37:46Joe Rogan?

  Did you have to refine it on your own? Did you get help?

• 1:37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was Waco that really kind of set me straight in my process. Really helped me figure out like my me. Cause it's all self exploratory shit as well as is acting. And, uh, and then you're just way more conscious of it. Of like, okay, like even with relationships of like, okay, that's I, I can get quite short. Like be like true detective. I was oddly an asshole through the whole thing. And I had my best friend of 30 years with me, helping me on that. And I was drinking like a to blackout. And that's not me. I don't drink much, but I was just a fucking mess.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  And my buddy was is like played in the NHL AHL was a fighter like he would fucking murder me.

• 1:38:35Joe Rogan?

  You would get shitty with him?

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Really shitty with him.

• 1:38:40Speaker 01

  And I would poke him, man.

• 1:38:42Joe Rogan?

  That's booze, bro.

• 1:38:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:38:43Joe Rogan?

  Booze is the worst.

• 1:38:45Speaker 01

  I know, man.

• 1:38:46Joe Rogan?

  It's the worst for that. So many drunk people get themselves into situations that they really should not be in.

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  And I would poke him, man. And we'd go to this shithole bar. It's called Sports Harbor. I don't even know if it's open anymore, but I would fuck around. And, uh, I didn't have to find out, but I definitely was getting that really I was conscious of it. And he would have to have a moment with me of like, hey, you said this last night or.

• 1:39:12Joe Rogan?

  Do you think it was partly because you're trying to play detective and detectives are kind of?

• 1:39:17Speaker 01

  All fucked up.

• 1:39:17Joe Rogan?

  All fucked up.

• 1:39:18Speaker 01

  In the closet, just a mess.

• 1:39:21Joe Rogan?

  So do you think that's what it was?

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do. Yeah, cuz after I shed it or after it wrapped, I was with my sis right after, but I was fine. I didn't touch anything. But during, I was no bueno.

• 1:39:34Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:39:35Speaker 01

  Even getting ready for this, it's, I play this director of corrections in Texas. It's a true story about the longest hostage situation in the US in a prison. It's 11-day hostage negotiation and Freddy Carrasco is gonna be played by Luna, Diego Luna, who's, I can't wait to see what he fucking does with this, but I play the director of corrections, so we're negotiating for 11 days. And I, and he's gotta be quite hard on his, on the guys in his war room. And he kinda comes in and he takes over the negotiation.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  And he's never done a negotiation before. So he makes a mistake here or there and he, he fucking pays the piper psychologically for it cuz it doesn't end great. And, and so I'm starting to get into that mindset and when I'm with a buddy or something like that, I can be quite short and you start to see it filtering in. I'm like, okay, Jim is settling in me. Like, I can start to feel it a little bit more. I get a little more reactionary.

• 1:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:48Joe Rogan?

  That's so creepy. It's like you're getting haunted. You're kind of getting haunted by your characters. But that's, dude, that's why you're so good.

• 1:40:56Speaker 01

  Ah, thanks.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  I think that's, there's something to that, man, because you're fucking believable. You know, like, I've seen you in a bunch of movies, but it doesn't matter. Whatever the fuck you're doing, I believe, even though I know, oh, that's Taylor Kitsch.

• 1:41:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:09Joe Rogan?

  I've seen him in Lone Survivor. I've seen him in this. I've seen him in that. When you're in that, the same as the Daniel Day Lewis thing, that's, he's that guy. He's that fucking guy. And even though you know who he is, that's how good he is, that he's still that guy even though you know who the fuck that is.

• 1:41:24Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:41:25Joe Rogan?

  It's like the trick works.

• 1:41:26Speaker 01

  That fucking monologue Daniel Day has on the porch, where he's like, I don't, to his brother, I think it is, where he goes, I don't like people.

• 1:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:34Speaker 01

  Ah, all fucking time.

• 1:41:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:41:37Speaker 01

  He is the best to do it.

• 1:41:39Joe Rogan?

  Such a complicated character he played, too.

• 1:41:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:41:43Joe Rogan?

  There was so much to it.

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  He's, he's got something coming out soon, too. His son, I think, directed it. Which is gonna be a fucking banger. I, I think he plays a soldier that comes back or.

• 1:41:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I saw a trailer. Yeah, that's right. I saw a trailer recently.

• 1:41:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:41:59Joe Rogan?

  That fucking thing of carrying a guy around like that, whether it's the detective or Karash or the Bang Bang guy, it's like. That's gotta be fucking exhausting.

• 1:42:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Because you're like real light in real life. You're friendly and like, hey, what's up? How you doing? I was, cause I didn't know, didn't know what you're gonna be like. Everybody's different, you know?

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  I heard horror stories of you.

• 1:42:23Joe Rogan?

  I mean, really?

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:42:24Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:42:25Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:42:26Joe Rogan?

  I tried to be nice, but you know.

• 1:42:28Speaker 01

  I was just with Sheridan the other day.

• 1:42:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Taylor? I love that guy. I fucking love him.

• 1:42:33Speaker 01

  And of course Pete and every car, everyone's like, you're gonna have a fucking blast, so.

• 1:42:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No, for sure. Everybody told me that about you too.

• 1:42:40Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 1:42:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but you know, you don't know. You don't know until you meet someone, but that, I'm glad I didn't meet you while you're on full, on True Detective in full character. You know, because full character is fucking crazy. You're kind of haunted.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta live it. You gotta live it. I think, I mean, you look at anybody that's great at anything. You have to, that it's amount, it's the amount of sacrifice you're willing to give to it.

• 1:43:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you have to be all in all the time.

• 1:43:06Speaker 01

  And I think it's that, like the fear of failure and also I don't wanna fucking watch it and be like, oh, kids, you didn't.

• 1:43:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  That would fucking kill me.

• 1:43:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the, the, watching a guy phone it in is the worst feeling as a, a, a consumer of the show, like a, a, a. You know, passenger on the ride, watching someone phone it in, like, no, dude, do another take. Come on, man, you motherfucker. What are you doing? You going through a divorce?

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:37Joe Rogan?

  What's going on, man?

• 1:43:38Speaker 01

  They're out there, man.

• 1:43:39Joe Rogan?

  Can't lock in?

• 1:43:41Speaker 01

  I've worked with some pretty fucking huge names that have apologized.

• 1:43:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  After a, a film or at the premiere or something that were like, hey, I'm, I, I'm sorry, man, I just wasn't there.

• 1:43:52Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:43:53Speaker 01

  Like in my head, I'm like, no, I know.

• 1:43:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, I had Charlie Sheen on yesterday.

• 1:43:57Speaker 01

  Oh, no way.

• 1:43:58Joe Rogan?

  And he was talking about his time doing anger management. About he was still really fucked up and just doing way too many drugs and he was trying to be locked in. But he was and he just didn't do it and then he wanted, didn't want to do it anymore. So he was miserable while he was there and he's all fucked up. And, and he's like apologizing to everybody now. I was like, I am so. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's a sweetheart of a guy, like a really nice guy. He's sober. Eight years, almost eight years. Amazing. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Damn. But you, you know, you can see the itch behind his eyes. Right. You know, that's a struggle. That sober is a struggle sober because that guy went through it for so many years. Yeah. The stories that he was telling about, like literally how 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. would go by like that.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  And then all of a sudden someone was pounding on his door. It's time to go to work. He's like, I am high as fuck on crack. And he goes, and so I have to lie in bed. So he'd lie in bed. I try to close my eyes. He goes, I'm not taking a nap. He goes, I'm cracked out of my mind. My whole body's vibrating. And he goes, and then I took a ice cube and I stuck it up my ass. Get out of here. And the ice cube woke him up and got him back. Like he was literally falling asleep on the set. And he said, give me a couple of minutes. And he shoved an ice cube up his ass.

• 1:45:15Joe Rogan?

  That movie writes itself. Bro, that guy went so hard. How do you figure that out? Yeah, right? You know, you're just going to the fridge. I gotta wake up. He's literally falling asleep. How do I wake up? Shove an ice cube up my ass. I guess it works. What would the other choices? Stick a fork into an electric socket? How did you get to an ice cube up your asshole? Oh my god. But he was going that hard and, you know, it just. He's so lucky he didn't die. So. We're the uppers and downers and everything, right? The crack. Well, people that he, the girl he smoked crack with the first time he ever smoked crack with eventually overdosed. Ah. He told a story about the first time he smoked crack. Brutal.

• 1:45:57Joe Rogan?

  This girl who was a crackhead, she gave him a blowjob while he took his first hit of crack. He said, to this day, I can't top that experience. He goes, to this day, he goes, I probably shouldn't say that. He goes, to this day, this is the greatest moment of my life.

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 1:46:14Joe Rogan?

  Like, oh my god.

• 1:46:16Speaker 01

  Isn't there a doc on him that just came out?

• 1:46:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what it's about. Yeah, he wrote a book and he did a doc.

• 1:46:21Speaker 01

  Oh, he did?

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And now he's doing movies again.

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  Is he?

• 1:46:25Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he's excited to be working again. He was kind of a little bummed out that it took so long for him to get a job again, but...

• 1:46:30Speaker 01

  Well...

• 1:46:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, you know, you got a lot of investment. Yeah, a lot of money invested.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  It's a lot of insurance on the studio, yeah.

• 1:46:38Joe Rogan?

  But now he's sober for eight years, so hopefully it'll...

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  Wow, good for him. Holy shit. What is he, like, sixty now?

• 1:46:43Joe Rogan?

  He's in his sixties. He actually looks good.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  Does he?

• 1:46:46Joe Rogan?

  So, for a long time, he looked terrible. And I said to him, I go, "Dude, you look better than I've seen you." I mean, I hadn't seen him ever in real life. It was the first time I ever met him. But it was, he looked good. He looked healthy. Looked remarkable for a guy that's gone through...

• 1:46:58Speaker 01

  Damn, that's just fucking abused.

• 1:47:01Joe Rogan?

  Twenty years of redlining the machine, just bang!

• 1:47:09Joe Rogan?

  Twenty years of crack!

• 1:47:10Speaker 01

  Shit. I'm gonna watch that doc.

• 1:47:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's, the doc is great. It's really entertaining, too. It's really well shot. It's really well shot. Yeah, really well edited.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  I mean, that whole family is pretty epic.

• 1:47:21Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, Martin Sheen is the fuck man. Yeah. Yeah, no, uh, we talked about Apocalypse Now, too, which was really crazy, because he was on the set when he was eight years old. Eight or ten? Ten? Ten. Ten years old. So he was ten years old, in the Philippines, on the set of Apocalypse Now while it was being filmed. Yeah, helicopters, fucking Robert Duvall, everything. Yeah. Dude, he was there. Ten.

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:47:50Joe Rogan?

  And your dad's Martin Sheen, like, holy fuck.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  And the Philippines back then, too.

• 1:47:54Joe Rogan?

  Dude, I love that movie so much, I wear this watch. This is the Willard. This is a, uh, this is a reproduction of the watch that Martin Sheen wore in Apocalypse Now. Yeah, it's my favorite watch.

• 1:48:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:04Joe Rogan?

  Because of that.

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:05Joe Rogan?

  Because, well, it's a nice watch. It's a Seiko. But like, they all, the Vietnam soldiers, all got Sekos because they were like, super durable and reliable. Look at that. That's him with his dad.

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  Oh my god. I didn't fucking get it in there, but...

• 1:48:18Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. On the set of Apocalypse Now, in nineteen seventy-nine. That is crazy.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  Oh, how old was Martin Sheen then?

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  Looks pretty young.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:30Joe Rogan?

  I mean.

• 1:48:30Speaker 01

  What a legend, though.

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  He looked, it seemed like in the movie, he was in his early 30s, right?

• 1:48:34Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:48:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Crazy, crazy, crazy, I mean.

• 1:48:40Speaker 01

  And you wonder why?

• 1:48:41Joe Rogan?

  And then 10 years later, literally 10 years later, he's doing Platoon.

• 1:48:46Speaker 01

  Oh, my god, yeah.

• 1:48:47Joe Rogan?

  Which is the next, like, epic war movie. Oliver Stone's directing it.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  Willem Dafoe, fucking yeah.

• 1:48:55Joe Rogan?

  Who's the other guy, the other guy with the scars in his?

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  Uh, Tom, uh, uh, who is it? Yes.

• 1:49:00Joe Rogan?

  Dude, that guy ruled in that movie.

• 1:49:02Speaker 01

  Yep, he did.

• 1:49:03Joe Rogan?

  He seemed so scary.

• 1:49:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, Willem's an amazing guy.

• 1:49:06Joe Rogan?

  Amazing.

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:07Joe Rogan?

  That guy's, I love that guy in everything. He was great in John Wick. He's great in everything.

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  He really is.

• 1:49:12Joe Rogan?

  He's great in everything.

• 1:49:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Willem Dafoe's the fucking man.

• 1:49:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:15Joe Rogan?

  But like, to be there at 10, watching your dad filming the apocalypse now, and then 10 years later, you're in Platoon, and Oliver North is directing you, and your narration. Oh, excuse me, Oliver, Oliver North, that's hilarious. Oliver Stone is directing you, and you're doing the narration. Like, the whole thing is nuts. 10 years. How do you adjust to that?

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  No, you don't. Well, that's how you adjust.

• 1:49:40Speaker 01

  One word.

• 1:49:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  Crack.

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, it took a while for crack.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  That was his drug of choice, was crack.

• 1:49:45Joe Rogan?

  It started with coke. When that girl blow him, when the girl gave him a blowjob while he was smoking crack, it was crack from then on out. It was like, I get it now.

• 1:49:52Speaker 01

  It's a hard sell, damn.

• 1:49:54Joe Rogan?

  It's just crazy that, it's crazy that he's alive.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:58Joe Rogan?

  But one of the things that we were saying that I was talking to him about, I was like, no one could understand what you went through. Because no one has ever done that. No one has ever been Charlie Sheen at 20 years old, and been in Platoon, and you're the toast of the town, and you're a baby.

• 1:50:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:12Joe Rogan?

  You know, you're just getting out of high school, you know, like, what?

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  A baby, man.

• 1:50:16Joe Rogan?

  And then the world's your oyster, you're doing blow every night, and... It's chaos, just nuts. You're off the rails and every time you fail, you succeed better. Like every, every time you go into rehab, there's a better movie waiting for you on the other side. There's no consequences career wise.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  God.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  And it just keeps going hard.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  What was the baseball movie? God, I loved it. Oh, the best.

• 1:50:37Joe Rogan?

  Major League. Oh, he was awesome in that movie. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  I grew up watching that.

• 1:50:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, dude, that guy, that guy's been in some great fucking movies. He's been in some great fucking movies. But to be him and to, you know, to, no, there's no blueprint for that kind of thing.

• 1:50:53Speaker 01

  What was his bottom out? Did he tell you?

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  He kind of, like, there was a bunch of bottoms out.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, losing Two and a Half Men or something?

• 1:51:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it was that and then it was his behavior afterwards and then he did, he very apologized to Chuck Lorre. He says, we've talked, I've apologized, we're friends now, like, thank God, like, cause I felt so.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  Does he live in LA?

• 1:51:14Joe Rogan?

  Charlie?

• 1:51:15Speaker 01

  I wonder.

• 1:51:16Joe Rogan?

  Remember, did he say?

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Get the fuck out.

• 1:51:18Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he said. I don't think I asked him. I don't know if he's still there. Um, but he's been completely sober for eight years.

• 1:51:24Speaker 01

  Good for him.

• 1:51:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, good for him.

• 1:51:26Speaker 01

  Holy shit.

• 1:51:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, if he can do it.

• 1:51:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no shit.

• 1:51:28Joe Rogan?

  That guy could do it. And he seems together.

• 1:51:31Speaker 01

  Both of them bad.

• 1:51:32Joe Rogan?

  Behringer was in that too, that's right. That's crazy that they, that completely different roles. Behringer in Platoon was so scary.

• 1:51:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:42Joe Rogan?

  Scared the fuck out of me.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  Damn, I love that shit.

• 1:51:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just amazing that, that guy's life arc to go from being a child on the set of Apocalypse Now to 10 years later starring in Platoon.

• 1:51:53Speaker 01

  I think Apocalypse was like a two-year shoot.

• 1:51:56Joe Rogan?

  Three, yeah.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:51:57Joe Rogan?

  We were talking about it yesterday, yeah. I thought it was even more than that. I think the entire production took forever.

• 1:52:02Speaker 01

  They just kept asking for money, too.

• 1:52:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Francis Ford Coppola, man.

• 1:52:06Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 1:52:06Joe Rogan?

  He nailed it. He, to this day, I will watch that movie every now and then and just sit there and go, fuck.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Back then too, to make a movie like that, yeah.

• 1:52:15Joe Rogan?

  In seventy nine?

• 1:52:17Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 1:52:18Joe Rogan?

  Come on, man. That movie was epic. And it was like, one of the first like, realistic war movies.

• 1:52:24Speaker 01

  Then you got Platoon, like you said.

• 1:52:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:26Speaker 01

  Epic.

• 1:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah. It's crazy that he's, you know, he experienced both of them. One as a child, watching his dad, and one as a star, and all within the span of a decade. Which is like, two thousand fifteen was yesterday, man.

• 1:52:39Speaker 01

  I know. And the most formative years, too.

• 1:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  Ten.

• 1:52:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, ten.

• 1:52:44Speaker 01

  What were you doing at ten?

• 1:52:46Joe Rogan?

  I wasn't in the Philippines. That was the other thing. He was like, I didn't know that that world existed. He goes like, I was living in Malibu, you know, in this beautiful town on the beach, you know, everybody's like, happy and wealthy, and his dad's a movie star. Then all of a sudden, he's in the Philippines. And he's like, in Francis Ford Coppola, had all these sketchy people on set all the time. Like, he was an artist. He's a nut. Like, everybody, come on and hang out. There's all these weird fucking people around and...

• 1:53:12Speaker 01

  Three-year fucking shoot.

• 1:53:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, in the jungle.

• 1:53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, literally.

• 1:53:16Joe Rogan?

  Using helicopters from the army. And he was saying that one time the army had to take the helicopters back, because there was rebels and there was a insurgency. Yeah, they had to borrow the helicopters.

• 1:53:27Speaker 01

  There's another movie.

• 1:53:28Joe Rogan?

  They had the whole scene rigged. They had the, the river was rigged with explosives. They're ready to film the scene. And they were like, no, we need our helicopters back.

• 1:53:36Speaker 01

  Holy fuck, man.

• 1:53:37Joe Rogan?

  We need to go kill some people.

• 1:53:39Speaker 01

  That's old school movie making, though.

• 1:53:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, man. I mean, if you could go back in time to be on the set of any movie ever, what would it be?

• 1:53:48Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:53:51Speaker 01

  I mean,

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  I've got to, I had dinner with Gibson one night, Mel Gibson, and I've worked with, um,

• 1:54:02Speaker 01

  what's his, Brendan Gleeson. So maybe Braveheart. That was a big one for me.

• 1:54:07Joe Rogan?

  That was a big one.

• 1:54:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:08Joe Rogan?

  Boy, that was a movie that made everybody want to sword fight afterwards. He's like, go fuck something up.

• 1:54:13Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 1:54:13Joe Rogan?

  Get out of that movie.

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 1:54:15Joe Rogan?

  God damn.

• 1:54:16Speaker 01

  That one was big.

• 1:54:17Joe Rogan?

  When he screams freedom at the end of it.

• 1:54:18Speaker 01

  I mean, come on. Or when the, when the, uh, when he, the king pulls his, he pulls the, the helmet off the king and he sees he's fighting for the other side. And then you cut to Gibson, it's those fucking blue eyes that are trying, he's trying to register that it's the king, his king. And that moment for me was just like, oh my God.

• 1:54:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:54:41Speaker 01

  Just beautiful.

• 1:54:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Mel Gibson can make a fucking movie, dog.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  He really can. He really can.

• 1:54:47Joe Rogan?

  You know what I watched again recently? Apocalypto.

• 1:54:50Speaker 01

  Amazing. Same, by the way.

• 1:54:52Joe Rogan?

  Not, it's a blockbuster movie that where no one speaks English.

• 1:54:56Speaker 01

  Yep. And no big movie stars.

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. No big movie stars, no one speaks English. It's fucking amazing.

• 1:55:03Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:55:04Joe Rogan?

  And he used like real people that lived there.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Good for him, man.

• 1:55:08Joe Rogan?

  Good for him.

• 1:55:09Speaker 01

  What a fucking swing.

• 1:55:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's a fascinating guy. Like his brain is like, he's just rattling all over the place all the time. First time he was on the podcast, he had a pen and he couldn't stop clicking it.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  Oh, God.

• 1:55:19Joe Rogan?

  Like the entire time. Click, click, click, click, click, click. I'm like, you fucking crazy person. Put the pen down.

• 1:55:26Speaker 01

  Oh, man. That was a cool dinner, though. He told me, uh, some stories of Braveheart.

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:55:32Speaker 01

  Of just riding the horse to all these cameras. Like ripping the horse to one camera, seeing the shot, going to the next, seeing the shot, going in, doing the speech, going, looking at playback.

• 1:55:42Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:55:42Speaker 01

  Just like, and then he's like falling asleep, standing up, you so tired. Like, that's like epic stuff. And talk about realism. Like those fights.

• 1:55:53Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no, they were horrible.

• 1:55:54Speaker 01

  Still holds up.

• 1:55:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:55Speaker 01

  That soundtrack, come on.

• 1:55:58Joe Rogan?

  That was an incredible movie.

• 1:55:59Speaker 01

  Like my dad played the bagpipes. Um, he played actually in the world championships in ninety-five in Scotland.

• 1:56:06Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:56:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:07Joe Rogan?

  From Canada?

• 1:56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:08Joe Rogan?

  Went to Scotland?

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:56:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:56:10Speaker 01

  And then, um, he, uh, so the pipes to me, like I remember he was alcoholic and not a lot, he wasn't around a lot. And, um, he, uh, I remember some of my best memories was like, you know, the fucking sound of the pipes when you're putting air in? It's the worst sound in the world. It's like a rabbit, like getting bludgeoned.

• 1:56:33Speaker 01

  And we would be at Christmas, all my cousins, his side of the family, and he would walk downstairs and you could hear this, these fucking pipes getting air put in. And you could tell he had a few and he was, he would come up and stand in the middle of the living room and just rip the pipes. And everyone's just like full stop and just beautiful. And he'd play in Barbados, he worked in Barbados doing a lot of like the pavers, the golf paths. And he'd play at funerals.

• 1:57:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:57:05Speaker 01

  And when.

• 1:57:07Joe Rogan?

  How did he do in the world championships?

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  I don't know. That's a good question, but it's a great story. So Primeval, I was fly fishing in the Madison, just West Yellowstone. I had four days off, so I went home to a Bozeman, was fly fishing. Only my favorite spot in West Yellowstone, my bro calls me and he's, and I'm like, I just caught like a 20 inch rainbow or something. And I'm fucking ripping into my brother being like, this fucking, I'm killing it, the rod's on fire right now. And he's like, ah. So my dad raced cars as well and his race car name, or we called him Gooey growing up. And he's like, Gooey's got 48 hours to live. And I was like, ah, fuck. All right.

• 1:57:53Speaker 01

  Literally just verbatim like that. Like I saw him, the last 19 years, I saw him twice. And one time was in Montana and he had early onset dementia and my brother drove him down. Great stories there, but, so I drive, I take my adventure van, drive up to Kelowna, my hometown and I've got this big beard from Primeval. And I hadn't talked to one of my brothers in years and then I was still close with the oldest and get to the hospital and he's, I turn his wheelchair around.

• 1:58:29Speaker 01

  And I'm like, hey, hey, Gooey. And he's like, who the fuck are you?

• 1:58:34Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:58:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he's on like oxygen and I'm like, I'm your youngest son. And he's like, what are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm just here to say hi and, and hang out for a couple of days. And he was like on point, like his brain was going. And, um, and it was a little like, I hadn't seen my one bro forever, so.

• 1:58:55Joe Rogan?

  How long had it been since you'd seen him before that?

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Years, a couple of years. Yeah, probably two years.

• 1:59:01Joe Rogan?

  And is it dementia that he didn't recognize you or the beard?

• 1:59:04Speaker 01

  No, the beard. It was the beard. And I was limping with that fucking toe. And, um, so, uh, we go up to his room. This is a Friday at noonish. And he's great though, like, so we had this young doctor, he's like forty, great guy. I go and sit down with him, he's like, I'm like, dude, he's dialed, like, what do you mean he's gonna fucking die? Like, he's on point. And, uh, he's like, this is what happens. Sometimes when somebody like this, he doesn't know he's dying, but he is once, like, all three of us brothers, all three of his sons were there, and it's like a high.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  And everything, he's just dialed into it all, and just very present.

• 1:59:54Joe Rogan?

  Because everybody's there.

• 1:59:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And he's like, the doc is like, man, I have a feeling all three sons haven't been together with him. And I'm like, in twenty-five years. And so we were all there. And I had my assistant back in, um, Santa Fe. And I was like, hey, my dad played for a cologne pipe band. And I was like, call her, I'm like, you gotta help me here. Get a piper and to come play for him at the hospital. And she's like on it. And she was great. And, uh, the next, the next, or Friday night, I'm like, Gooey, what do you want for breakfast? And he's like, give me something I shouldn't have. Give me like a fucking Costco muffin and, uh, and. Stupid amount of whipped cream and a coffee.

• 2:00:41Speaker 01

  And so, of course, I go overboard and bring him this fucking ridic- the big chocolate chip muffin and and the coffee in the next morning, but he had gone from like dialed to he's hurting. And so we got this piper to come. We fucking, we're not allowed to do this. We bring him out in the courtyard. And and the piper comes and he's asleep. And she's like, uh, what do you, what do you want me to play? Like, they know of my dad that he had played for the Kelowna Pipe Band and and I'm like, I don't know many songs. And I just obviously Amazing Grace and stuff like that. And so she's just rips it. And he wakes up.

• 2:01:24Speaker 01

  And we're all buckled emotionally, right? Because this whole, the pipes to us is just like, that's our father. That's like our only memory, one of our only memories for him. So. Um, she plays two songs. And he's fallen asleep again. And he wakes up and he's, and I'm like, gooey, you got one more song. And he's like, okay, he was a mama's boy, loved his mom. And and she was amazing. And he's like, play one for my mother. So I think at that point, he knew he was about to go see her. And yeah, so we have all this on video and and um, his brother was there and his wife and uh, his best friend growing up. And so we fucking, the nurse comes out after the pipes.

• 2:02:08Speaker 01

  They're not, obviously, the whole fucking hospital can hear this. And so we're obviously got caught. And she's like, bring him up now. And so we're like, yes, yes, ma'am. So we fucking have him in his bed. And you know those like wheelchair ramps? It's like a hard ninety degree.

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  He's out, he's sleeping. And my middle, I'm the youngest of three boys. My middle bro's big. And then my other bro's like six, two, big boy, two. And we're fucking, we got him and we're stuck in that turn. So now it's like Weekend at Bernie's.

• 2:02:48Speaker 01

  And this is like a, a pain movie where it's like, he's fucking, I'm like, hey, gooey's stuck. Boys, he's stuck. We can't get over this fucking corner because the bed's too long. And we're dying like we needed a laugh. And so I looked down and gooey's arm is like fucking crooked, jammed in that bar. Oh, no. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, whoa, whoa, back up a bit. So we back loosen it up and it's like, it's not broken, but we, he didn't feel any of this shit. So we're like crying laughing because it's like a weekend at fucking Bernie's moment. It's our dark humor, man. Right. You gotta laugh in those moments.

• 2:03:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess you had to. Yeah, because we were just buckled 10 minutes earlier. Get him to the room and he's in and out sleeping and the next day on Father's Day, I had, I had to drive back to Bozeman. And we have dark humor. And so everyone's in the, in the room and I'm like, all right, get the fuck out of this room. Everybody like, like a joke, but the nurses are like, oh my God, what happened? And I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. It's a joke. I just want 10 minutes with him. And then I gotta go. I gotta go back to work, but I'm gonna say goodbye. And so they leave and he's like kind of in and out of consciousness and he would wake up

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  and look right through you. Like he's trying to be with you or present or I don't know. That's kind of how I took it. And he's fighting consciousness, I guess. Hmm. And

• 2:04:31Speaker 01

  small little side note, I was driving and the shaman who was helping me for primeval, he texted me once I got into Canada and he was like, hey, I had a dream, you gotta fucking call me. And I'm like, I don't know if I believe this stuff, but I'll, I'll call you. And so I call him and he's like, hey, something's up. And I'm like, I've told three people that my dad's going. And he's like, I had a fucking dream that you're about to lose someone. I don't know if they're close to you and I hate calling. This is a crazy call, but I'm gonna listen to this. And I'm like, man, I'm on my way to say goodbye to my dad. He goes, okay, that's what it is. Wow. Yeah. How weird is that? Yeah.

• 2:05:16Speaker 01

  What is that? I know, I don't know what that is. I'm still, and he's like, how, like, tell me about your dad. What, what kind of guy was he? I'm like, not very present. He drank a lot and, you know, some regrets, of course, and this and that. And he goes, okay, I'm gonna set up an altar and pray for him. And this is what I think is gonna happen. He's not gonna cross over very easily. Cause of the life he's lived. And so when I'm one on one with my dad, I started the conversation. I'm like, gooey, it's me. And out, and he had soft hands. That's one thing I remember.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  So I grabbed his hand and our humor. I'm like, yeah, these are a little fucking soft gooey. Like, maybe you should have worked harder, like, no calluses, like, nothing. Just, you know, just trying to, and then I went into like, the nonprofit and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna try and give back and this and that. And I promised him. And, and during that conversation, he would try and like be conscious and he was fighting to be there, present. Yeah. But he was, I think, gone. Yeah. And then two hours I left and then on the way home, my bro called and he had passed on Father's Day.

• 2:06:39Speaker 01

  And then, then I was back to work on Tuesday, fucking riding banana bread. Wow. My horse, yeah, with like Shay Wiggum, who's an amazing actor. He played Jim Bridger in that, but. Yeah, Pete was great with me on that.

• 2:06:54Joe Rogan?

  Did that help you like hold a feeling of loss for your your character?

• 2:06:58Speaker 01

  I think it, I mean, how crazy art simulating life and vice versa. I'm playing a guy mourning.

• 2:07:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:07Speaker 01

  And then all of a sudden, like, my father, who I didn't really have, died, but it's still your dad, you know? And um, and Pete was like, hey, this, you know, do you want to ride banana bread into this into this shot or walk him or? And I'm like, I'll ride him in. And I was doing a scene with Shay Wiggum and it was beautiful because I was upset that some knew that it's my news to tell, you know, but some had already knew the crew. So I was a little rattled at that when I got to set because everyone was very fragile with me, which I understand.

• 2:07:43Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  But I was like, whoever told you guys, it's not your story to fucking tell. It's mine if I want to share it with the crew or whoever. But so I was a little upset on set, but then a lot, it was so beautiful, man, because a lot of these older guys on set would just come up and be like, man, my father was this guy to me, this guy, but, you know, I just, I feel you. And they would share all their father stories. So it was a beautiful experience and Pete was great and Betty Gilpin was amazing and and that scene, I just buckled. Like, walked away from the Fort Bridger and I just was pretty emotional and and Pete was like, amazing.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  And then we shot the scene, he's like, go home. And then I got to my trailer and literally to the minute of when I went down, that was the minute he got cremated.

• 2:08:37Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:08:37Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, but I do think it was really cathartic to be playing that guy and then I had a beautiful sweat after. And I mourned him the right way, you know? It did knock me though, for like, I'd say six months after, I was like, what am I doing? Am I doing everything or enough? Am I living my life enough because even if he's not in your life, you're still like to witness that is it was heavy.

• 2:09:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  But I had more in them, right? And you know, I'm in a good spot now, but it was an interesting thing of. You just take stock, I guess. I've never lost somebody close to me. Especially in that way. So, yeah, it was just a blessing to be still on set, working and doing that.

• 2:09:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sometimes you just need to appreciate people and sometimes it takes a loss before you appreciate others sometimes. It's just like you just get too used to people. You get used to them being around, you take them for granted.

• 2:09:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:43Joe Rogan?

  And then if they're gone, you just.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  That's, you know what, Joe? That's what I was fucking literally saying. He's just gone.

• 2:09:51Joe Rogan?

  When I was.

• 2:09:51Speaker 01

  Just like that.

• 2:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Lived in New York at a best friend that was a drug addict. And he was a crack addict at one point in time. And then later he started getting into harder stuff like opiates and.

• 2:10:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:06Joe Rogan?

  And he died of an overdose and I moved to LA in 94, but you know, we stayed friends, we hung out. He would come out to visit me, I'd go to visit him, but he was always fucked up. He was always a mess. Came to my house once detoxed. I didn't know that that's why he wanted to come to LA. But he came to LA and he was just so sick. He just laid in bed for four or five days.

• 2:10:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, brutal.

• 2:10:26Joe Rogan?

  And then, you know, a couple of days later, I had to go back to New York. But he died of an overdose. And another buddy of mine that I'm good friends with called me up that we were all tied together. He called me up and it just never made sense. I was like, how is he not here?

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:42Joe Rogan?

  How is he gone? Like it just. It just fucked me up where I knew he was gonna die. I knew it was gonna happen, but I couldn't believe it happened. And then, you know, you gotta go back to work.

• 2:10:54Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:10:54Joe Rogan?

  Back to life, you know, just and you feel so. Like a piece of you is missing.

• 2:11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:01Joe Rogan?

  Like, the world doesn't make sense.

• 2:11:03Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 2:11:03Joe Rogan?

  A person isn't in the world anymore. It's so hard to imagine until it actually happens. So abstract, almost.

• 2:11:11Speaker 01

  And like you said, even if, like, I had, I had enough time to understand he was going.

• 2:11:16Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:11:16Speaker 01

  But when they're gone, it's just totally different.

• 2:11:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  And then you just take stock and you're like, okay, I go, am I doing enough? Am I, whatever it is.

• 2:11:26Joe Rogan?

  Just tell people you appreciate them sometimes. That's, sometimes that's all it takes.

• 2:11:29Speaker 01

  And forgave them.

• 2:11:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:31Speaker 01

  Like, I didn't hold, I wasn't that son that was like, fuck, where were you? Why didn't you do this for me? Blah, blah, blah. I wasn't.

• 2:11:37Joe Rogan?

  He is who he is.

• 2:11:38Speaker 01

  Yep. And you learn that as you get older.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. People are who they are. And some people also, they grew up with monsters.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:46Joe Rogan?

  That's the other problem. If you try to pretend that, you know, your parents should have their shit together because you have your shit together and they were your parents. No. Well, who raised them? They were raised by people living in the depression.

• 2:11:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:59Joe Rogan?

  They were raised by animals.

• 2:12:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:01Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:03Joe Rogan?

  We've, we've only been truly civilized.

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  Humans have only been truly civilized for the last few decades.

• 2:12:10Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 2:12:10Joe Rogan?

  I think most of history is just horrific barbarism. It's just slaughter and, and crime.

• 2:12:18Speaker 01

  And repeat.

• 2:12:18Joe Rogan?

  And repeat.

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Over and over and over again, until we developed the ability to communicate how bad that is.

• 2:12:26Speaker 01

  And it doesn't fix it.

• 2:12:27Joe Rogan?

  It fixes it a little. It gets, it makes it a little better, but still, still, even today. You know, there's.

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  But the pipes, so every time I hear the pipes, I'm like, ah, it gets ya.

• 2:12:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, oh, I'd imagine now.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  I do wanna go to Scotland.

• 2:12:44Joe Rogan?

  Scotland's beautiful.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't been.

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  I've been there a few times. I love it. Yeah, I love it. People are very cool. It's not overcrowded. And if you can get past the rain, which is kind of a good break every now, especially if you live in LA.

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:12:56Joe Rogan?

  It's a good break to see rain everywhere where they're like, good luck starting a fire out there.

• 2:13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, right.

• 2:13:02Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:13:02Speaker 01

  And to go into the Highlands and maybe take a motorcycle trip, or I do wanna go and, and watch those world championships. Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, the Highland Games?

• 2:13:11Speaker 01

  So the guy, I hired up three pipers for his funeral.

• 2:13:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 2:13:15Speaker 01

  And I pull in, I got this on fucking video. And, uh, I pull into the parking lot, a little church in the middle of my town. And they're doing the fucking, putting the air in the bag. And I was like, this time it crushed me. And I took a video from my truck and I went out, introduced myself and he's like, "You're not gonna fucking believe this." And I'm like, he's an older guy. Um, and he's like, "I played next to your father at the world championships."

• 2:13:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:13:46Speaker 01

  Wow. Like just randomly, this is the guy playing the funeral.

• 2:13:50Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:13:51Speaker 01

  And, uh, he was fucking amazing. And, uh, he stayed a while and then it was like this little church, you go into this little gymnasium kinda spot. And he stayed and played in the, in the back. Uh, and some of my, that I didn't know, but some of my dad's favorite songs. So I have those on video too, but it was just beautiful.

• 2:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:14:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it brought all three boys back together, you know? Now we're on good terms. It's been super cathartic. I was the only one to speak at the funeral. And, uh, I'm in the pew and it's his sister who I hadn't seen in a decade. And, uh, my two brothers and their kids. And my oldest is just a puddle. He's just, he's wearing sunglasses and just a mess. And the priest was actually quite great. He was funny and, uh, and then my other brother was in front of me and he was a puddle. And he doesn't like speaking and I don't either as me. I, I get a little nervous or whatnot.

• 2:14:59Speaker 01

  I'm always good if I'm in character or hiding behind something. But the priest was like, okay, um, now's the time to say something. And the whole church is just like. And I look at Damon, my other brother, Brody. And Damon looks back at me, priest looks at me, he's like, "Now's the time."

• 2:15:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so you just had to decide it was you?

• 2:15:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then my Auntie Lee, uh, just squeezed my hand. I'm like, "I'm fucking saying something, aren't I?" She's like, yes, you are. So I get up and I just said, you know, if there's any light to this whole situation, it's that all three of us brothers are back on great terms now.

• 2:15:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's good.

• 2:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's great.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  That's cool.

• 2:15:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:15:50Joe Rogan?

  And then right, right back to primeval.

• 2:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, right back to primeval. Go get on banana bread. Take it out on those motherfuckers.

• 2:16:01Speaker 01

  Man, yeah, what a trip. What a trip.

• 2:16:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that is, that's a crazy experience, man. When you were doing the Koresh thing?

• 2:16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16:09Joe Rogan?

  What was the thing that fucked you up the most about playing him?

• 2:16:14Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 2:16:14Joe Rogan?

  About even preparing to play him?

• 2:16:17Speaker 01

  Trying to root him emotionally to those circumstances that were so foreign. Like, the emotional beats of like, I just didn't understand it. I didn't understand how someone could do what he did and then he was very woe is me. Like, he played the victim incredibly manipulatively well. Uh, and I would always say he's like a great coach and he would, a great coach would be like, with you, he could train you and push certain buttons, but then he'll do something totally different with someone else and incredibly manipulative. So I think just trying to root that and understand, like, I don't think I'll ever

• 2:17:01Speaker 01

  understand some of the actions, obviously, um, to that level, like how someone can do that. But it is all out of fear and insecurity and trauma, like that part of it, I did understand. And memorizing the Bible is a defense mechanism, because when he's with, there was over 20 theologians that would get on the call with him. And if you, and I listened to Child Protective Service calls, uh, obviously all the Nezner uh, calls, uh, which was the, played by Michael Shannon, who's amazing, and uh,

• 2:17:40Speaker 01

  And every time he got his back to the wall and they had a point or had something or had a level up on him, he would go right into Bible speak, which nobody could keep up with him on. So he would gain that upper hand and I would just go into a fucking dialogue about a dragon with one eye is about to come and show its face and bare its teeth and take the children. Like, what the fuck do you say to that? You know, if you're on the call

• 2:18:10Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:18:10Speaker 01

  And you're trying to have a rational conversation of like,

• 2:18:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:13Speaker 01

  Let the children out.

• 2:18:15Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:15Speaker 01

  We want these kids out. And he goes, "Right." And he just goes into this Bible speak. You're like, there's no real rebuttal to that.

• 2:18:25Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  And that was, he did this with Child Protective Services, too. On those calls, he would just go, "Right." And that was such an anchor to him.

• 2:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 2:18:34Speaker 01

  Because nobody could play a card like that.

• 2:18:36Joe Rogan?

  Right, because as soon as you say, "Words from the Bible," you're right.

• 2:18:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:18:41Joe Rogan?

  You have to be right.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  And he's married to it.

• 2:18:43Joe Rogan?

  You're literally quoting the Bible.

• 2:18:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:44Joe Rogan?

  And you're, you're gonna argue with me? You're arguing with the Bible.

• 2:18:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:18:48Joe Rogan?

  It's trump card.

• 2:18:49Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 2:18:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:18:50Speaker 01

  Truly. And he would go to like Oxford and have debates with theologians in the classes. And that's how he recruited a lot of people, that he would win these debates and they would come and join, come to Texas. Like, really, like, he would write these letters to people and send tapes to Australia and get them to come.

• 2:19:12Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, this was incredibly smart guy. Like, that you have to give to him.

• 2:19:19Joe Rogan?

  That is, isn't it so fucked up that someone with a brain that works that well would choose to use it in that way?

• 2:19:27Speaker 01

  All, just fear. I mean, even the way like he's talking about God and the, the end of days and um, how he needs to bear, I think, around 22 children that are gonna go up with him and ride a cloud up there and all these crazy things. He had the answers to aliens.

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so what was that answer?

• 2:19:47Speaker 01

  I can't remember, but people, I do wanna know. The, to your point, though, it's like, he ended up shooting himself in the head, right? Which ironically, you don't go to heaven if you do that. Which is, um, but also like,

• 2:20:03Speaker 01

  He does all this shit and I don't know, just that was a big thing for like Paul Sparks and I played my right-hand man of like when we shot that death scene. Of like, man, like I do wish to your point, he was still alive and we could learn shit. You know, all these guys, they end this, like they drink the fucking Kool-Aid in the bed or the fucking like, it's such a fascinating. Perspective that I do wish we could break that down and maybe learn something from this. Then just he shooting himself in the head and burning, burning in the house.

• 2:20:40Joe Rogan?

  What you could learn, what you could learn, like especially after. The event, like the raid on the compound and everything like what could you, all the people are dead, like how, what could you learn from that guy then? He's gonna be so fucked up.

• 2:20:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, nine people survived that. One of the survivors, Thibodeau was there with us, his drummer.

• 2:21:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh wow.

• 2:21:02Speaker 01

  Every day.

• 2:21:04Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 2:21:04Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah. And.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  What did he say he was like?

• 2:21:10Speaker 01

  It goes back to your point that he still was thinking that he's coming back.

• 2:21:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god.

• 2:21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:16Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:21:17Speaker 01

  So he, I know.

• 2:21:19Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:21:19Speaker 01

  And this didn't come out until our last week of shooting. Cause I got along incredibly well with him. And he did give us, he did write a great book and give me insight to moments that I asked to be in the show, but.

• 2:21:35Speaker 01

  I mean, he was going. I don't know, to North Dakota or the Dakotas to, someone had blueprints for an alien warship. And he was going to see these blueprints. And we're just in between takes. We're, we're in between takes, sitting in our set chairs and me and Paul Sparks and we're like, hey, what, what are you doing after this? After we rap? And he went on and, and told us he was going to look at blueprints to this warship. And we're like, okay. Copy that. Yeah. So, those are the type of guys, though, that

• 2:22:14Joe Rogan?

  Wound up being cults. Yeah.

• 2:22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. Sweet man. Like, very helpful, was great to us, and was very open, but, I mean, a lot of, majority of people are followers, right, so?

• 2:22:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a lot of people out there that have brains that don't really work that well.

• 2:22:30Speaker 01

  Right. Truly.

• 2:22:32Joe Rogan?

  That's just how it goes. It's a very unfortunate roll of the dice, but your, your brain does not let you navigate through life very well, and you need someone to hold your hand and tell you what to do, even if it's completely illogical. And those people wound up becoming followers.

• 2:22:46Speaker 01

  I think it was the new light. He called it the new light, this is a while ago, but I think it was the new light. He, he, Dave woke up, and he got all, everyone together, and he's like, "I just had a word with God, and it's the new light something." And, uh, it's where I'm gonna, I'm the only one now that is going to sleep with the women.

• 2:23:10Speaker 01

  And, this guy named Norm, I think he was Australian, or, anyways, this guy was like, "Fuck that shit." "I'm out." And like, twenty, thirty people laughed. But, a lot stayed, right?

• 2:23:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. You're always gonna get people that stay, and then they think that if they stay, he'll like them even more now. And those other losers who are in the way of them getting attention from Dave, now gonna be tighter. "I'm staying. Fuck that. I'm Team Koresh." "You can fuck my wife, bro."

• 2:23:43Speaker 01

  Fucking jersey on.

• 2:23:45Joe Rogan?

  Nuts.

• 2:23:46Speaker 01

  It is, man. It is.

• 2:23:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird thing that people have, like, encoded in us, to look for a leader.

• 2:23:53Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:23:54Joe Rogan?

  Very strange.

• 2:23:55Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:23:56Joe Rogan?

  You know, I think it's just from tribal DNA. That's what I think.

• 2:23:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about that.

• 2:24:01Joe Rogan?

  If, when we were groups of like a hundred and fifty people, the only way we could survive, you gotta listen to the wisest, most experienced person. And that's the tribal leader. That's how it always was. It was the greatest warrior, the one who knew where the fish were, the guys. Guy who knows what you're supposed to eat and not eat, and where the danger is, and that guy's gonna help you, keep you alive. And we always have that in everything. We have it in businesses. We have it. There's always like this one top monkey.

• 2:24:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:28Joe Rogan?

  At the top of the pile.

• 2:24:29Speaker 01

  The carrot.

• 2:24:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:29Speaker 01

  That fucking carrot.

• 2:24:30Joe Rogan?

  It's weird, but you see it in chimpanzees too, man. It's crazy.

• 2:24:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:34Joe Rogan?

  It's primate behavior. They're all, they're all, all those chimpanzees, they have a tribe leader.

• 2:24:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:39Joe Rogan?

  They have one guy who's the fucking top chimp.

• 2:24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:42Joe Rogan?

  And he sees running shit. It's weird, man. It's like, it's encoded in us. And so for people that aren't that smart, someone like David Koresh can totally exploit that.

• 2:24:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24:52Joe Rogan?

  And go, I am the leader. And you're like, wow, I'm so glad I met you. I was lost without you. You are found now, my son. You are found. And all of a sudden, like, that guy's so confident. He must be right.

• 2:25:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:03Joe Rogan?

  I'm not confident.

• 2:25:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. He did say tanks were coming and they're here. So, literally, that was a big moment.

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  That's what he said?

• 2:25:09Speaker 01

  That was a big moment.

• 2:25:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:25:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:12Joe Rogan?

  That must have been freaking out.

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  The seven seals, he was rewriting the seven seals, his final days.

• 2:25:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:25:19Joe Rogan?

  The whole raid on the compound thing is nuts.

• 2:25:22Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:25:22Joe Rogan?

  Like, when you see the fire coming out of the tanks, you're like, what did you guys do?

• 2:25:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. There's a guy that ironically was Dick DeGuren, his lawyer. And he was speaking in Santa Fe when we were shooting this. So I'm like, full fucking stop, we're going to hear Dick DeGuren speak.

• 2:25:41Joe Rogan?

  He's speaking about Waco?

• 2:25:42Speaker 01

  He's speaking about his experiences as a lawyer.

• 2:25:45Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:25:46Speaker 01

  And he did. And I went and introduced myself and there's a crazy story. It was Dave's mom who called him. And was like, this is what's happening. Would you go help, blah, blah. He was on a fishing trip, I think. And he's like, yeah, I'm gonna go. So he showed up to the compound on the perimeter that was set. And he's like, I'm that guy's lawyer in that house. You need to take me over there. FBI puts him in a fucking tank. And he goes to the front door in a tank. And the door has this big piano. I've tried getting this in the show, in the show, and we couldn't. But, um, so there's a big piano at the front door, blockade. Dave wasn't allowed to walk by the windows, all this kinda stuff.

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  This is deep into the 51 day standoff. And Dave's right-hand man, and played by Paul Sparks and another, his lawyer, Harvard grad, I think, answered the door and Dick's like, "Oh, I see the bullet holes in the ceiling, couple bodies that the ATF weren't, uh, didn't allow you to take out. Um, you got a case here, but where's Dave?" And they show him the house and all this kinda stuff. And so they're back in the foyer and the piano's against the wall. And they're talking. And he's like, "Okay, I don't, I wanna help, but I don't know where Dave is."

• 2:27:13Speaker 01

  And he's leaving. And he's like, "You got a fucking case." And the right-hand man just goes, "Dave was in the fucking piano, listening to this whole thing."

• 2:27:27Joe Rogan?

  What a psycho.

• 2:27:28Speaker 01

  And so he got back in the tank and Dave got briefed of their walk-through there. And anyways, Dick DeGuerin was his lawyer on that. What a fucking story, though.

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  How crazy.

• 2:27:39Speaker 01

  And I wanted to be in that piano and shoot that.

• 2:27:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:45Speaker 01

  That would've been unbelievable.

• 2:27:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that would've been an important part.

• 2:27:49Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  It's an important part of the story.

• 2:27:51Speaker 01

  It really is.

• 2:27:52Joe Rogan?

  That's how nuts he was.

• 2:27:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  He hid in the fucking piano.

• 2:27:55Speaker 01

  So scared to get shot or didn't trust anything.

• 2:28:01Speaker 01

  But those guys, apparently in that, in that tank, they were like ripping Dick DeGuerin. And like spitting on him and doing this kinda shit. Because they're like, "You do know they just killed a bunch of ATF guys in that shootout as well? And you're gonna go fucking be this guy's lawyer? Fuck you."

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:21Joe Rogan?

  Rightly so. But the thing, like, what started off the feud? I don't even remember, like, who's... How did bullets wind up flying?

• 2:28:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it was, Dave had, he was selling like homemade bulletproof vests and was like, had these, I know.

• 2:28:41Speaker 01

  Fucking and the ATF were kinda spiraling out like their funding was about they were about to get defunded and they needed a win. They needed it. What was it? The Ridge?

• 2:28:55Joe Rogan?

  Ruby.

• 2:28:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, there you go. So they dropped the ball huge on Ruby Ridge, right?

• 2:28:59Joe Rogan?

  Say that again.

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. So which is at the very beginning of Waco and they needed a fucking win. Here, find a cult leader into weapons, selling ammunition, I think, and bulletproof vests and this kinda stuff. And this guy's got these kids and all this is perfect. And that started it of just like, we're gonna go get this guy. And there's a famous tape that we put in the show too, where Dave was like, you know, why didn't you just like, he did this run all the time and was kinda just out and about, working on the house, running around. He had a fucking go-kart track around the, uh, the compound. And he's like, why wouldn't you just arrest me when I'm on a run, when I'm on this or that?

• 2:29:45Speaker 01

  But they needed a lot of press and they needed to get funded again. So they made this a spectacle and then it fucking turned into what you saw. Like they were, they wouldn't let fire trucks come and take that fire out. That's a fact. And then, um, they're playing that music of animals being like mutilated into the compound. Um, yeah, then they were flying the ATF flag. I asked for that to be put in, but we didn't put it in, but they were flying the ATF flag while it was burning down. Yeah, it's legit.

• 2:30:22Speaker 01

  Crazy, man.

• 2:30:23Joe Rogan?

  Wow, they needed a win.

• 2:30:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then.

• 2:30:28Joe Rogan?

  That's so dark.

• 2:30:29Speaker 01

  I know. I know. Picture I-35 right here, fucking tanks and all these armored trucks, everything going down I-35. It's incredible, you know, and they're just sitting right in front of, of the house. Now 51 days is fucking crazy.

• 2:30:49Joe Rogan?

  That is crazy.

• 2:30:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:52Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:30:54Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:30:54Joe Rogan?

  It's just hard to believe that they would do that. But then you you read the Ruby Ridge thing.

• 2:30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:59Joe Rogan?

  They shot a woman while she was holding her baby, man.

• 2:31:02Speaker 01

  The kid in the back, I think.

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, the dog.

• 2:31:05Joe Rogan?

  Shot a kid, dog, yeah. And for what?

• 2:31:08Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:31:09Joe Rogan?

  For what?

• 2:31:09Speaker 01

  I know, I know.

• 2:31:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's weird, man. It's weird, you you could you could be an assassin for the government.

• 2:31:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:31:18Joe Rogan?

  And even just think you're just doing your job. But it's like, this is, seems pretty fucking criminal, guys.

• 2:31:26Speaker 01

  It's a lot, it's a lot.

• 2:31:28Joe Rogan?

  It's just hard to believe that they would.

• 2:31:31Speaker 01

  Seventy seven, six people died?

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  The videos, nuts.

• 2:31:37Speaker 01

  Twenty, twenty something kids.

• 2:31:38Joe Rogan?

  Driving over the house on a tank and shooting fire into it. Like, and then they denied doing that. They denied doing that with the tank, shooting fire, but you could you could watch it.

• 2:31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:49Joe Rogan?

  You could watch the fire come out of the tank.

• 2:31:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:31:52Joe Rogan?

  It's horrible shit, man.

• 2:31:55Speaker 01

  I know. What a role.

• 2:31:57Joe Rogan?

  So when you get out of that role, would you stop playing that guy, man? How long does it take before you you go back to being you?

• 2:32:04Speaker 01

  Probably, I bet you a month, six weeks, till you shed it.

• 2:32:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:32:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. Go do something that makes you feel you and alive. Motorcycle ride, something, get the fuck out.

• 2:32:19Joe Rogan?

  Do you like dream of that guy?

• 2:32:20Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Not anymore.

• 2:32:22Joe Rogan?

  But you did?

• 2:32:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. Yeah, your subconscious, it's funny because it's like, that's, you marry yourself emotionally to said circumstance. And so my subconscious, and I'm sure a lot of actors will say, it's like, you're wide open. And so you're more vulnerable, I'm way more emotional. And so, because you just do the work and you're just, your subconscious is open, so my, your dreams, once I start dreaming a little fucking crazy, visceral stuff, that's when I know I'm getting closer, for sure.

• 2:32:56Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:32:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:57Joe Rogan?

  You're like you're getting haunted.

• 2:32:59Speaker 01

  A little bit.

• 2:33:01Joe Rogan?

  It takes six weeks to detox you.

• 2:33:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:04Joe Rogan?

  And fucking exorcise the ghosts.

• 2:33:06Speaker 01

  And then it's like, you play this guy, you know what's fucking crazy was ACL. And I was walking and prepping for Waco and randomly, out of nowhere, this guy is talking about Waco and that it never happened.

• 2:33:24Speaker 01

  Like, this is so random. And I was with my buddy who's out there. And I was like, holy shit, what the? We gotta do this story now. Like, there's people out there that believe that it's just one conspiracy theory that never happened.

• 2:33:38Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:33:39Speaker 01

  And I was like, what?

• 2:33:40Joe Rogan?

  There's people that believe everything though.

• 2:33:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:33:42Joe Rogan?

  If you can figure out the conspiracy, there's a whole group of people on Reddit dedicated to it.

• 2:33:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:48Joe Rogan?

  You're late to the party. Any conspiracy, just fill in the blank. There's a bunch of people that think space is fake. There's a whole online community of people that don't believe in space.

• 2:33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:59Joe Rogan?

  Okay. There's people that believe a lot.

• 2:34:02Speaker 01

  That's a big...

• 2:34:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:03Speaker 01

  Just, just to say that alone just feels like, sorry?

• 2:34:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's people that like, Flat Earth is not crazy enough. They wanna take it to the next level. The next level is space doesn't even exist.

• 2:34:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:34:15Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:34:15Speaker 01

  That's all, you know when you get older and people will just straight up, like, when they talk at you telling you false shit?

• 2:34:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:23Speaker 01

  You're like, okay.

• 2:34:24Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:34:25Speaker 01

  Use the alibi and be like, you're an idiot, this is what is actually happening.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:30Speaker 01

  But no, now it's like, alright.

• 2:34:32Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes it's exhausting though.

• 2:34:34Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  Shut up, that's so fake.

• 2:34:37Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:34:37Joe Rogan?

  How do you believe that?

• 2:34:39Speaker 01

  But they like double down, triple down on it.

• 2:34:41Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:42Speaker 01

  Um.

• 2:34:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I just had one of those moments. You used to be a lot more of those people before the internet.

• 2:34:46Speaker 01

  I know, man. That's a dangerous game.

• 2:34:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:50Speaker 01

  I don't read shit, which has really helped me.

• 2:34:54Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:34:54Speaker 01

  It really like...

• 2:34:55Joe Rogan?

  That's very healthy.

• 2:34:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. Like...

• 2:34:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:58Speaker 01

  I don't read any, uh, reviews.

• 2:35:00Joe Rogan?

  Good for you.

• 2:35:01Speaker 01

  Any of that. I learned the hard way, man. I got hammered on John Carter. Um, that put me in a dark spot. Um, but yeah, had to rebuild everything. Um...

• 2:35:15Speaker 01

  But yeah, that, you're down that tunnel and you're just like, like, they're not just like, he's a bad actor. It's like, this guy should die.

• 2:35:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're a terrible person. It's nuts.

• 2:35:26Speaker 01

  Personal attacks.

• 2:35:27Joe Rogan?

  The world would be better if you were never born.

• 2:35:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:35:29Joe Rogan?

  Like, whoa.

• 2:35:31Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Fuck. I know you're just trying to write a saucy article, but holy shit.

• 2:35:35Speaker 01

  It's a lot of fucking sauce.

• 2:35:37Joe Rogan?

  A lot of vitriol there.

• 2:35:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, man.

• 2:35:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's weird, man. People, but that's, you know, they like doing that to people they don't know. It's

• 2:35:44Speaker 01

  Zero accountability. It's so easy.

• 2:35:47Joe Rogan?

  And now, because of social media, anybody can do it.

• 2:35:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just asked.

• 2:35:52Joe Rogan?

  You never used to hear people's opinions before. You had a movie in 1979, the general public either went to see it or did not.

• 2:36:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:01Joe Rogan?

  And it was like a word of mouth thing, and then there was like Siskel and Ebert and whoever else is reviewing stuff.

• 2:36:05Speaker 01

  The five other reviewers.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  That was it. And if the New York Times said it was good, you'd go see it.

• 2:36:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but now, it's like fucking everybody.

• 2:36:12Speaker 01

  Clickbait, negative always beats.

• 2:36:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:36:15Speaker 01

  You get more clicks on a negative hit. And then, you know, that was the beauty of like Friday Night Lights. Like, I never, there weren't reviews, really, and I was just, we didn't have social fucking media.

• 2:36:26Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:36:26Speaker 01

  We're in Austin, no real producers on set or writers. We're kind of, Pete set it up so great. And you're just going there, slinging, trying shit, failing, trying again. It was such an amazing experience.

• 2:36:40Joe Rogan?

  Without all the extra input.

• 2:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, without any of the weight of like, is this gonna be successful?

• 2:36:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:45Speaker 01

  What does that even mean now? You know?

• 2:36:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they, well, do they still do focus groups when they do a film?

• 2:36:51Speaker 01

  Yes, definitely, yeah.

• 2:36:53Joe Rogan?

  So that's kind of like a small internet.

• 2:36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:57Joe Rogan?

  It is kind of, because you're like, well, who are these people?

• 2:36:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:59Joe Rogan?

  They might be like 200 morons.

• 2:37:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:02Joe Rogan?

  Like By the way, I like Oklahoma. But there's certain spots where, you know, like, if you wanted to tank a movie, you'd do a focus group and, you know, some moron community where everybody's on fentanyl.

• 2:37:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:37:15Joe Rogan?

  You guys watch this movie. Tell me what you think.

• 2:37:16Speaker 01

  I slept through half, but I don't like that guy's hat.

• 2:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Did they get paid? Is that like a job?

• 2:37:21Speaker 01

  I don't know. That's a good question.

• 2:37:23Joe Rogan?

  I bet they do. I bet they do, which is then you have to factor in, okay, what kind of a person is getting paid to do focus groups? They might be a failure. They might be a really dull-witted, dull-minded person, and they get to decide the direction of this movie.

• 2:37:38Speaker 01

  And like, I don't like the ending. Yep, reshoots, twenty million dollar reshoots.

• 2:37:43Joe Rogan?

  Forty percent of the audience said they didn't like the ending. Forty percent of the audience wouldn't pass a piss test.

• 2:37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, true. Even like John Carter was like one of the highest tested movies in Disney's history. And we got hammered, obviously. But it's like, I don't know how much that moves the needle or anything.

• 2:38:02Joe Rogan?

  I think people distrust the media more than they trust the media now. But if something sucks, like if a critic says it sucks, it still works. Like if I see a one star review, like, oh, that movie supposedly sucks.

• 2:38:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, I don't give it any other thought.

• 2:38:18Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:38:18Joe Rogan?

  It still does work. But if something's really good, people go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Fuck the critics, fuck the critics, this movie rules.

• 2:38:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:27Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at Adam Sandler's movies. The critics always hate them. The audiences always love them. Always. It's the most lopsided.

• 2:38:34Speaker 01

  He's bad in a thousand, that guy.

• 2:38:35Joe Rogan?

  I know, it's crazy. His movies are fucking. He's the best, he's the nicest guy of all time.

• 2:38:40Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:38:40Joe Rogan?

  And he's a great regular actor, too. Uncut Gems was bananas. That movie gave me so much anxiety.

• 2:38:48Speaker 01

  And.

• 2:38:48Joe Rogan?

  I was like, don't do it. Cause he played that guy, that gambling addict, so well. So believable.

• 2:38:56Speaker 01

  Great directors, too.

• 2:38:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just, it's great.

• 2:38:59Speaker 01

  Smart guy, smart move.

• 2:39:00Joe Rogan?

  But his comedies, I love his comedies. They're fun, and I love that I can watch it with my kids. Like, he's got, they're funny. Like, Jack and Jill is funny. It's fucking silly and ridiculous, and Al Pacino's in love with his sister, who is him. It's funny, man, it's a funny movie, it's so stupid and silly.

• 2:39:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:18Joe Rogan?

  But that's, but the critics hate those movies, they hate them. Like, okay, what are you going to see? It's an Adam Sandler movie. This is really good at making this kind of movie. And if you want to go see a fun, lighthearted, silly movie.

• 2:39:31Speaker 01

  Which we need a little more of.

• 2:39:32Joe Rogan?

  With a lot of heart to it.

• 2:39:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:33Joe Rogan?

  His movies are the ones to go to.

• 2:39:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:36Joe Rogan?

  But the critics hate them.

• 2:39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:37Joe Rogan?

  They don't, it doesn't matter. If people love it, that's what matters.

• 2:39:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, Terminal is season one.

• 2:39:42Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:39:43Speaker 01

  We got hammered.

• 2:39:44Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:39:44Speaker 01

  And the people spoke, man.

• 2:39:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it didn't matter.

• 2:39:48Speaker 01

  And that's why I'm here.

• 2:39:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:39:50Speaker 01

  Like, that's why Dark Wolf is dark, we're doing it, you know? It's cause people wanted to see why Ben is fucking the way he is and made that decision.

• 2:39:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:01Speaker 01

  If it didn't, there's no way we would have got that green light. There's no way.

• 2:40:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, because it's written by Jack. So Jack Carr, who's a good friend of mine, who's an awesome human being, and also a SEAL, and writes and had the goal, this is how crazy Jack is, had the goal of first becoming a SEAL, getting military experience, and then becoming a great writer. Like, he had it in his head.

• 2:40:26Speaker 01

  Did he really?

• 2:40:27Joe Rogan?

  Yes. He always wanted to be a SEAL. He always wanted to serve. So he wanted to do those things, get real-life experience. I mean, that guy has a love of history.

• 2:40:38Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable.

• 2:40:39Joe Rogan?

  Incredible love of history.

• 2:40:41Speaker 01

  He's a walking encyclopedia.

• 2:40:41Joe Rogan?

  He's so brilliant, and his recall is phenomenal. So, but imagine that kind of decision-making. I'm going to be a SEAL. I'm gonna go get deployed. I'm gonna get military combat experience, and then I'm gonna go write books.

• 2:41:00Joe Rogan?

  This is, that was his, like, set.

• 2:41:03Speaker 01

  Eight bestsellers. Seven or eight.

• 2:41:05Joe Rogan?

  And right out of the box, Terminalist, his first book is fucking incredible. It's incredible. But the guy prepared for it his whole life. Like, he's a voracious reader. Voracious reader. Reads constantly, can recommend books constantly. He's always great about that. And so his first book out of the gate, it's like he'd been preparing for it his whole life.

• 2:41:25Speaker 01

  I mean, when he comes on to set, and we're shooting this, in episode five, he came to Budapest, and his energy, like, he's like a kid in a candy store, man. It's like, I'm fucking gassed out, tired, and like, just getting beat up, and here comes Carr, and it's just the light. He just brings an energy to that set that is just like, man, we're so lucky to be here. And you're like, you know what? You're kind of fucking right. We are.

• 2:41:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:55Speaker 01

  And I just love that guy, man. Super supportive. Right when I got the role.

• 2:42:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:00Speaker 01

  He's like, not pressing me. He's like, I know you've played a SEAL before. If you want any of my notes, who Ben is, and he's like, if you want that long leash, here it is. Like, I trust you. Like, he's been nothing but amazing with me so far, so.

• 2:42:14Joe Rogan?

  He's a brilliant guy.

• 2:42:15Speaker 01

  He really is.

• 2:42:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he really is.

• 2:42:16Speaker 01

  Super caring.

• 2:42:17Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, just a great man.

• 2:42:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:21Joe Rogan?

  Like a truly great man.

• 2:42:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:23Joe Rogan?

  It's it's so cool when a guy like that gets to write stories that really reflect the true lives that he led and then he knows a lot of his friends lead and it's real. It's like he has a an understanding of it that obviously the success of his books and the success of the series. That understanding just translates in a way like, oh, this is very authentic.

• 2:42:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, even like little notes, man, I would get with the gun work and all that kind of shit and obviously you listen. But it's just like he's he comes at you of just more excitement.

• 2:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:43:01Speaker 01

  And you don't take it personal, you can't. And you want to get it fucking right. When you have him and Jared Shaw, who's another SEAL and Mendoza, who's a SEAL and we got a what a Army Ranger who writes a lot of it, like we're surrounded by these guys every day. So if they want, if anything is not authentic, you're, I mean, the bullshit meter is like fucking two feet away.

• 2:43:26Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:43:26Speaker 01

  You know, and I love that, though, because they're doing a lot of my work for me, helping me, making me look like fucking Ben.

• 2:43:34Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:43:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 2:43:35Joe Rogan?

  It's a complicated character, too.

• 2:43:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of that stuff, like one of my best buddies is a SEAL and had like two hundred guys under him, fought in Ramadi and bomb specialist guy, wicked dude. And um, there's a moment in the CIA room in in in episode one that was written and then I kind of, I've been hearing this from him for so long. And so it's kind of ingrained in me of just like how there's always someone to answer to and you're never really getting the full transparent part of what they're putting you out for. So I'd heard all these stories for like the last, since Lone, I met him on Lone. And um, and so that scene, I was like, this is for you, man.

• 2:44:22Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna fucking go and have at it with this CIA guy. And he was at the premiere and watched it and loved that beat, but it's like I get to serve, you know, some of these guys that they they don't get to have those moments.

• 2:44:35Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right.

• 2:44:36Speaker 01

  And that's so fun for me to just fucking go and light them up in that room. One of my favorite scenes.

• 2:44:43Joe Rogan?

  Cathartic.

• 2:44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:44:44Speaker 01

  So I steal from these guys, even like, and I get it, I got hammered, or Ben got hammered for being the twist of season one, right? I'm the guy who kinda orchestrated a lot of it. And, um, and I was talking to Marcus, cause I'm like, how the fuck am I gonna root this guy? This SEAL that's like best friends with Reese? And now all of a sudden the twist is like, man, I had a hand in this. I'm the guy that put you guys down that tunnel, on that op, and your whole fucking platoon died, uh, for the most part. And, um, I just literally, it was like a little moment that I had with Luttrell, where he was talking about going back and dying with his boots on.

• 2:45:29Speaker 01

  And I was like, really settle into what that means. This warrior is just decidedly going to die over there, serving. It's beautifully tragic. And I was like, that is where I hung my hat with Ben, of like, how I can root this crazy twist, of like, I'm making this decision for you, but you're gonna go die with your boots on. Instead of this fucking, you're gonna die rotting in this hospital bed, no insurance, your family, all this kinda shit. I'm like, I'm gonna take that decision for you. So that's where I rooted Ben for season one.

• 2:46:04Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:46:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then I go and open, uh, the Mike Murphy Museum, uh, with Dan and Marcus and a lot of other SEALs, obviously. And, uh, a lot of the SEALs were like, I fucking get it. You know, but a lot of people just were like, how could you?

• 2:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:46:21Speaker 01

  And I get that part too. But it was just like-

• 2:46:24Joe Rogan?

  Both things are true.

• 2:46:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, truly.

• 2:46:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, both things are true. How could you and I get it.

• 2:46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:31Joe Rogan?

  He's a human being.

• 2:46:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:32Joe Rogan?

  And, you know- That's, that's one of the reasons why the show is so interesting.

• 2:46:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:38Joe Rogan?

  People are fucking super complex.

• 2:46:40Speaker 01

  And how fucking gray it all is.

• 2:46:42Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:46:42Speaker 01

  And how it goes back to like you're in mourning of a buddy. Uh, you, you broke this promise, his family's dead and now I'm on an op and I get in front of the guy that killed this guy's family. I'm gonna fucking put him down. Fuck this. I'll ta- the beauty of Ben too in this is he's accountable for it. Like, I'll take it. Take my trident then. I'd do it all over again. Which is a beautiful thing. And I think he does, like, it's, it's a very... It's an emotional reaction that, you know, phrase his life and, uh, the other character, uh, uh, Rafe's character, he gets his trident taken. But it's... That's one thing we were talking about earlier of just like,

• 2:47:27Speaker 01

  it's so fucking gray and in these really split decision moments that you have, and these guys aren't fucking robots out there. It's like they're emotional, they're fucking trained like better than anybody. But at times, they have to make these decisions. That is like, okay, you're gonna fucking put those girls on the black market or sell them or put them in the sex trade? You don't get to live anymore. I'm gonna do that. But that's a beautiful thing too.

• 2:47:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and people can relate to it. Cause if you were, if you were in that scenario, what would you do? And most people would like to believe they would say, you're not gonna live anymore.

• 2:48:05Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. We have these talks on set all the time. You're on American primeval. We can romanticize the 1850s, or at least I did at the beginning of like, this guy's a fucking mountain man. This is sick, like, he's a motherfucker, like, if I, if you see me on the river in 1852 and you're like... I want your jacket. You're gonna just come up and kill me and take my jacket.

• 2:48:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:48:31Speaker 01

  Like, that's how fucked up the eighteen hundreds were back then. Lawless.

• 2:48:36Joe Rogan?

  Lawless.

• 2:48:37Speaker 01

  And so we started shooting and I was like, we're shooting at ten thousand feet up there and you're cold and we're still spoiled, obviously. Your trailer's fifty feet away, but it's like, fuck this. I'm like, there is nothing in me that would wanna be in the eighteen fifties.

• 2:48:56Joe Rogan?

  Nothing.

• 2:48:56Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 2:48:57Joe Rogan?

  No, I can't believe people made it through.

• 2:48:58Speaker 01

  I can't either.

• 2:49:00Joe Rogan?

  It's hard to believe.

• 2:49:00Speaker 01

  I can't either.

• 2:49:01Joe Rogan?

  And those people were living in a lap of luxury compared to people who lived four thousand years before that.

• 2:49:07Speaker 01

  Oh, my god. Good boy. Two hundred years earlier.

• 2:49:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's nuts. I mean, it's like what we were talking about earlier. Civilization is super recent. I mean, it's not, obviously, there's ancient Egypt and all that stuff, but I mean, what we're dealing with right now is super recent.

• 2:49:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:23Joe Rogan?

  Relative safety, relative security.

• 2:49:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:26Joe Rogan?

  Relative, you know.

• 2:49:29Speaker 01

  I mean, do you, do you, when you go hunt, you're Utah, backcountry, wherever you're going, you're gonna be in the shit. It's gonna be beautiful and quiet and like, I live for that.

• 2:49:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's why Montana's a great, it's a great place to hunt, too. And Montana is a truly wild place.

• 2:49:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:49:46Joe Rogan?

  I mean, outside of Bozeman.

• 2:49:48Speaker 01

  Right. Yeah. Thirty, thirty minutes outside.

• 2:49:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, thirty minutes outside, you've got like a truly beautiful, incredible, un, just un. If you've never experienced the mountains, like the true mountains, especially when there's some snow on the ground and the winds whistling around, it's like, it's majestic. It's like the most extraordinary work of art that nature created.

• 2:50:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:50:16Joe Rogan?

  There's something about like mountains.

• 2:50:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:50:19Joe Rogan?

  It's just like, awe inspiring.

• 2:50:21Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:50:22Joe Rogan?

  It's like, wow.

• 2:50:23Speaker 01

  Makes you, perspective sinks into you, you're in the moment.

• 2:50:26Joe Rogan?

  And it's weird that very few people live near them.

• 2:50:29Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 2:50:30Joe Rogan?

  It's when you get there, when you get there, you're like, oh, my god, I wanna see this every day.

• 2:50:34Speaker 01

  Yeah. Then you're on a flight to New York in two days.

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  I lived outside of Boulder for a while.

• 2:50:40Speaker 01

  Oh, beautiful.

• 2:50:41Joe Rogan?

  And it was like that every day. It's like you're just driving through these mountains, like, this is incredible.

• 2:50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Like, this view that you have is like a vitamin.

• 2:50:50Speaker 01

  It really is, man.

• 2:50:51Joe Rogan?

  Restores your soul.

• 2:50:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:50:53Joe Rogan?

  Look at this place. And it's, it's not a coincidence that people in mountain communities are chilled out.

• 2:50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're right.

• 2:50:59Joe Rogan?

  It's not a coincidence. They're surrounded by this overwhelming majesty of nature and it's humbling.

• 2:51:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 2:51:07Joe Rogan?

  It makes you a little chiller.

• 2:51:08Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 2:51:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:09Speaker 01

  And I think for me too, it's so good for the brain for all those reasons, but also it's just like, if I'm sitting around feeling sorry for myself or whatever it is, bored, it's like, it's your fucking fault if you're bored out there.

• 2:51:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:51:23Speaker 01

  There's a thousand hikes, go get into wildlife, go to the national park, go for a fucking walk, anything.

• 2:51:30Joe Rogan?

  Fix your perspective.

• 2:51:31Speaker 01

  Truly.

• 2:51:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:32Speaker 01

  And it does.

• 2:51:33Joe Rogan?

  It does.

• 2:51:33Speaker 01

  It does. After an intense roll or whatever it is, once I land in Bozeman, man, I get on the bike or whatever, go fly fish. It's like, it's, it's a beautiful thing.

• 2:51:45Joe Rogan?

  And there's less people there, so it's like.

• 2:51:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:49Joe Rogan?

  You don't feel the buzz.

• 2:51:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51:51Joe Rogan?

  Relax.

• 2:51:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I just bought a thirty-five dollar fucking protein shake before I came here.

• 2:51:57Joe Rogan?

  In Austin?

• 2:51:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:01Joe Rogan?

  What the fuck is in it?

• 2:52:02Speaker 01

  I look up, yeah, it's like, I don't know, probably like koala DNA that's gonna give me hard for the next seven days or something.

• 2:52:11Joe Rogan?

  Grass-fed tallow.

• 2:52:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Where'd you get it? How's it, how do they charge thirty-five bucks for a smoothie? That seems a little outrageous.

• 2:52:19Speaker 01

  Adding shit. I was adding.

• 2:52:21Joe Rogan?

  You're adding protein and stuff?

• 2:52:22Speaker 01

  Creatine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I was like, what's happening?

• 2:52:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not Montana, but even Austin, like compared to where I lived before, I lived in LA and living here is like, there's only two million people.

• 2:52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:36Joe Rogan?

  It's so much more.

• 2:52:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Like what they think is traffic is adorable.

• 2:52:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:42Joe Rogan?

  Cute little traffic you have.

• 2:52:44Speaker 01

  It's true. LA's insane.

• 2:52:45Joe Rogan?

  It's just a terrible way to live.

• 2:52:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it really is.

• 2:52:48Joe Rogan?

  It's a terrible way to live.

• 2:52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:50Joe Rogan?

  And I think I get how people used to wanna live there because it was the center of, you know, the TV business and the comedy business, but it's. It's not worth it, kids.

• 2:52:59Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 2:53:00Joe Rogan?

  It's not good for the soul.

• 2:53:01Speaker 01

  I mean, nothing's being filmed there anymore. It's rare. It's just...

• 2:53:04Joe Rogan?

  Weird, right?

• 2:53:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:06Joe Rogan?

  Like, how did that happen?

• 2:53:07Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:53:08Joe Rogan?

  How did they fuck that up?

• 2:53:09Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:53:10Joe Rogan?

  How did you fuck up the one spot where everybody wanted to move to to be an actor? You fucked up that spot?

• 2:53:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they have everything. Mountains, beaches, fucking...

• 2:53:20Joe Rogan?

  You can get to the mountains, to the shore, in two hours. You're up in Big Bear, you're down in Santa Monica. Two hours.

• 2:53:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:28Joe Rogan?

  It's nuts.

• 2:53:28Speaker 01

  Studios, everything's there.

• 2:53:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they fucked it up.

• 2:53:31Speaker 01

  Yep. Brutal. What the fuck is happening?

• 2:53:36Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 2:53:37Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:53:38Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I'd blame politics, but I think there's a lot of other stuff going on, too.

• 2:53:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:42Joe Rogan?

  I just think the people running it, it probably takes exceptional people to have real vision and learn how to keep stuff together.

• 2:53:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know.

• 2:53:50Joe Rogan?

  I don't know either.

• 2:53:51Speaker 01

  I'm not a big fan of L.A.

• 2:53:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. I lived here for seventeen years.

• 2:53:56Joe Rogan?

  Did you love it here?

• 2:53:57Speaker 01

  I did.

• 2:53:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah?

• 2:53:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. I loved the lake life.

• 2:54:00Joe Rogan?

  It's nice.

• 2:54:00Speaker 01

  It's fucking amazing.

• 2:54:01Joe Rogan?

  It's a chilled city, too. It's like genuinely good people here.

• 2:54:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, there are.

• 2:54:06Joe Rogan?

  And normal people.

• 2:54:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:07Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:54:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:08Joe Rogan?

  In L.A., everybody is like a failed actor, want to be an actor, trying to get on a reality show.

• 2:54:15Joe Rogan?

  Looking to be a TikTok influencer, something. Everybody's got something.

• 2:54:19Speaker 01

  And they want something from you.

• 2:54:20Joe Rogan?

  Always.

• 2:54:21Speaker 01

  Always.

• 2:54:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and every connection they make is like a networking thing. Every new friend becomes someone who's an asset.

• 2:54:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, an asset, yes.

• 2:54:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because it's like very transactional.

• 2:54:29Speaker 01

  Yep. Gross.

• 2:54:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's gross.

• 2:54:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:32Joe Rogan?

  Well, listen, brother, you're a very interesting guy, and you've got some awesome stories, and you're a really great actor.

• 2:54:37Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:54:38Joe Rogan?

  And so I've been a fan for a long time.

• 2:54:39Speaker 01

  Likewise.

• 2:54:40Joe Rogan?

  So this was really fun.

• 2:54:40Speaker 01

  Thank you. Thanks for having me.

• 2:54:42Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, brother. Um, tell everybody one more time, Terminalist, Dark Wolf. It's available now on Amazon.

• 2:54:48Speaker 01

  On Amazon.

• 2:54:48Joe Rogan?

  Which is great, and I know the Terminalist killed it for Amazon.

• 2:54:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:52Joe Rogan?

  It was a huge show for them.

• 2:54:53Speaker 01

  We're number one right now.

• 2:54:53Joe Rogan?

  That's amazing.

• 2:54:54Speaker 01

  So, yeah, thanks.

• 2:54:55Joe Rogan?

  That's awesome. It's a great show. It's a great show. All right. My pleasure. Bye, everybody.

• 2:55:13Joe Rogan?

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