How Your Brain Is Hurting or Helping Your Relationships, Memory & Life w/Dr. Daniel Amen (PART 2) EP 1121

“If it’s good for your heart, it’s good for your brain.”Today's guest is Dr. Daniel Amen, who has helped millions of people transform their lives and brains through Amen Clinics, his best-selling books, and public television programs. The Washington Post has called Dr. Amen “the most popular psychiatrist in America” because of his books, media appearances and clinics which have over 7,000 patient visits a month. Amen Clinics also have the world’s largest database of functional brain scans relating to behavior, totaling over 170,000 scans on patients from 155 countries. This is actually the second part of Lewis and Dr. Amen's conversation, so if you haven’t listened to the first episode, make sure to go to www.lewishowes.com/1120In this episode Lewis and Dr. Amen discuss the biggest challenges Dr. Amen thinks the world is facing around brain health, how to optimize brain and heart health, how our brain health can affect the quality of our relationships, how constant overwhelm of dopamine is affecting our brain function, why working on improving our memory is necessary and practical ways to start working on it, and so much more! For more go to: www.lewishowes.com/1121Check out his website: www.danielamenmd.comCheck out his new book: Your Brain Is Always ListeningCheck out his podcast: The Brain Warrior’s Way PodcastThe Wim Hof Experience: Mindset Training, Power Breathing, and Brotherhood: https://link.chtbl.com/910-podA Scientific Guide to Living Longer, Feeling Happier & Eating Healthier with Dr. Rhonda Patrick: https://link.chtbl.com/967-podThe Science of Sleep for Ultimate Success with Shawn Stevenson: https://link.chtbl.com/896-pod Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 1,121 with New York Times bestselling author Dr. Daniel Amen. Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur, and each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:29Lewis Howes?

  Oprah said, breathe, let go, and remind yourself that this very moment is the only one you know you have for sure. And Debbie Hampton said, take care of your mind and your body will thank you. Take care of your body and your mind will thank you. And my guest today is Dr. Daniel Amen, who has helped millions of people transform their lives and brains through Amen Clinics, his bestselling books, and public television programs. And The Washington Post has called Dr. Amen the most popular psychiatrist in America because of his work and his media appearances and clinics which have over 7,000 visits a month. Amen Clinics also have the world's largest database of functional brain scans relating

• 1:08Lewis Howes?

  to behavior totaling over 180,000 scans on patients from 155 countries. And he's also written a new book called Your Brain Is Always Listening: Tame the Hidden Dragons That Control Your Happiness, Habits, and Hang-Ups. And this is actually the second part of a conversation. So if you haven't listened to the first part, make sure to go to LewisHowes.com/1120 to listen to that as well. But in this episode, we discuss the biggest challenges Dr. Amen thinks the world is facing around brain health, how to optimize brain and heart health at the same time, how our brain health can affect the quality of our relationships, how constant overwhelm of dopamine is affecting our brain's functionality, why working on improving our

• 1:51Lewis Howes?

  memory is necessary, and practical ways to start working on it, and so much more. Again, if you're enjoying this at any moment, make sure to share this with a friend that you think would be inspired by this message as well, so we can keep changing lives together. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or use the show note link, LewisHowes.com/1121. Make sure to tag me and Dr. Amen as well over on social media when you're listening and sharing it on your social media profiles. Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Daniel Amen.

• 2:24Lewis Howes?

  What is the biggest challenge you face? You've been doing this work for what?

• 2:27Daniel Amen?

  Thirty years.

• 2:28Lewis Howes?

  Thirty years. The biggest, 183,000 scans. You're speaking about this all the time. You're writing incredible books about this all the time. You've got talk shows on this, on public television. You've got, you're the leading expert. What's the biggest challenge in your life right now? Knowing all this information after 30 years? What do you still struggle with?

• 2:51Daniel Amen?

  I hate the fact that all psychiatrists don't do this. I hate the fact that I'm still an outlier in my profession. And part of me loves that. Because I get to do something very cool and very special. But the fact that the masses of psychiatrists still are making diagnoses based on symptom clusters with no biological data, exactly like they did in 1840 when Lincoln was depressed. Lincoln was suicidal, went to his doctor. How did his doctor diagnose him? He talked to him. He looked at him. And then he treated him. That's exactly what's happening in 2021. It's insane.

• 3:34Daniel Amen?

  And every day, it irritates me that, you know, they'll go, "Oh, there's no science behind what Dr. Amen does, even though I've published 80 studies, some of the largest studies in the world. There's 14,000 scientific references on brain spec if you go to the National Library of Medicine." But that's the stuff. It just really frustrates me because most people aren't getting the help they need. This psychiatric problems are not mental illnesses. They're brain illnesses.

• 4:09Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 4:10Daniel Amen?

  And that one idea changes everything. It decreases stigma. It increases compliance because everybody wants a better brain. Nobody wants to be called mental. Calling someone mental shames them.

• 4:22Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:23Daniel Amen?

  People really don't want to, and yes, I know Lady Gaga came out and Justin Bieber came out. And it's like, that's awesome. But it's not mental illness. It's brain health.

• 4:37Daniel Amen?

  Exercise has been found to be a treatment for depression.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 4:41Daniel Amen?

  As effective as Zoloft.

• 4:42Lewis Howes?

  Gratitude is also, yeah.

• 4:44Daniel Amen?

  Why not? And let's work on getting the physical functioning of our brain right. And optimizing our mind. And that's how we're gonna end mental illness. So I have one of my other books called The End of Mental Illness. And I love that title, but I got a lot of grief from the title. It's like, what do you mean? I'm like, we need to stop calling these things mental illnesses. And use these Bright Minds strategies. Because when your brain is better. For example, the second I in Bright Minds is immunity and infections. There's a study, and I put in the end of mental illness.

• 5:24Daniel Amen?

  Of a graph of the, a map of the United States of the highest incidence of schizophrenia. It's the Northwest, the North Midwest and the West Coast. And right below it is a graph. Of the highest incidence of Lyme disease. They're virtually identical.

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:45Daniel Amen?

  Could schizophrenia, in some cases, be an infection? That's attacking the brain? And I think the answer is yes. Not in all cases. But it's something we should be screening for.

• 6:00Lewis Howes?

  And I have a- People with Lyme's disease have a higher risk of schizophrenia?

• 6:04Daniel Amen?

  They do. And they have a higher incidence of virtually all mental health challenges. And I have so many great stories. One of them I talk about in the book. Adriana, sixteen, beautiful, straight A student, kind. Goes to Yosemite on vacation with her family. And when they get to their cabin, they're surrounded by six deer. And they think it's a magical moment. But Lyme is often transmitted by deer ticks. And ten days later, she's hallucinating. And she's violent. And they put her in a psychiatric hospital. She's diagnosed by a psychiatrist trained at Stanford with schizophrenia. Told the mother, Adriana needs to be on this medication for the rest of her life.

• 6:50Daniel Amen?

  And her mother's like, no, I'm not okay with this. And they had spent like a hundred thousand dollars and ended up in my clinic. Spending a lot less than that. And when we saw her brain, we went, her brain's infected.

• 7:05Lewis Howes?

  It shows the infections.

• 7:06Daniel Amen?

  It shows the tendency toward infection. And it turned out when we tested for Lyme, she had it. And on an antibiotic, within a year, she was herself again. And she went on, she graduated from Pepperdine, and then she got a degree in HR from the University of London, and she's normal. And I remember, because she's all one of my other doctors, but when I got to meet her, I mean, both she and I just cried. Because she's the reason I do what I do.

• 7:37Lewis Howes?

  That's beautiful.

• 7:38Daniel Amen?

  But infectious disease, including COVID-19, I have about 50 COVID scans. COVID is not good for your brain. And about 20% of people with COVID will get a new onset diagnosis of anxiety, depression.

• 7:55Lewis Howes?

  Come on, really?

• 7:56Daniel Amen?

  Yeah. It is not a good thing. You know, a lot of people go, oh, it's like the flu. Nah, it's not like the flu. It can impact your brain. And we knew it early on, because, you know, you lost your sense of taste and smell. Well, those are central nervous system struggles. And, yeah, it's pretty interesting.

• 8:16Lewis Howes?

  Has there been any scans from people who have gotten vaccines on the effects of the vaccine?

• 8:21Daniel Amen?

  It's a great question. I've scanned lots of people with vaccines. I haven't seen a pattern with it. Now, some people will be hurt with vaccines, right? I mean, anytime there's any medicine, there's a risk. But I knew this was serious when I lost my dad to COVID-19.

• 8:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow, sorry to hear that.

• 8:45Daniel Amen?

  And I have a clinic in Manhattan, you know, which is the epicenter. Early on in the pandemic, my 28-year-old employee ended up on a ventilator for 10 weeks.

• 8:55Lewis Howes?

  A 28-year-old?

• 8:56Daniel Amen?

  28-year-old.

• 8:57Lewis Howes?

  10 weeks?

• 8:57Daniel Amen?

  10 weeks. And it's just not the same. So...

• 9:02Lewis Howes?

  Have they recovered, or?

• 9:04Daniel Amen?

  Not the same.

• 9:05Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 9:06Daniel Amen?

  Yeah, because there's this whole thing, people are talking about long COVID. And we've treated a lot of people with long COVID.

• 9:15Lewis Howes?

  What does long COVID mean?

• 9:16Daniel Amen?

  It means you're not better in three days. In fact, you're not better in six months. You still struggle with anxiety, with brain fog, with muscle aches, and so on. And it depends. I've talked a lot since the pandemic started.

• 9:32Daniel Amen?

  Your best defense against COVID-19 is your immune system. Yes. Right? And often it's your vitamin D level. So the strategy for immunity and infections is optimize your vitamin D level. Yeah. Either by getting more sun or taking a supplement. Like 80% of the population has suboptimal levels of vitamin D. And the study that just nailed it for me. If your level, so normals between 30 and 100, if your level is under 20, you have double the risk of cancer of those people who are over 40. So I keep my level around 80. You're in the sun all day, you're having the supplements, yeah. Right. And it's just that one act.

• 10:17Daniel Amen?

  It's like, is this good for my brain or bad for it? And if I do one thing, I'm more likely to do two things. If I do two things, I'm more likely to do 11 things. You'll stack it. Yeah. So the N in Bright Minds is neurohormones. I alluded to that earlier. You know, testosterone's really important for brain health. Now, you don't want too much because then your libido will go up and your empathy will go down, which is a prescription for divorce, losing half your net worth and visiting your children on the weekends. So that's not a good thing. But low testosterone goes with depression and goes with anxiety and goes with low energy. So thyroid, DHEA, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and so on. So getting your hormones stacked.

• 11:02Daniel Amen?

  D is diabetes. So we talked about being overweight, but also having high blood sugar. Diabetes. Diabetes. What does that mean? It's a combination of you're overweight and you have high blood sugar. Either one of those is a mental health, brain health risk factor. And 50% of that, get this, Louis, just shocking.

• 11:28Daniel Amen?

  Fifty percent, five, zero percent of the population is either diabetic, fourteen percent, or prediabetic, thirty-six percent. That's a disaster. And that comes from the simple carbs we're pouring and pounding in our body. It's an insulin response.

• 11:45Lewis Howes?

  So if we're diabetic or prediabetic, what is that doing to our brains?

• 11:50Daniel Amen?

  It's atrophying, making your brain smaller, and it's murdering the hippocampus. You know, those baby seahorses.

• 11:58Lewis Howes?

  Six hundred, seven hundred a day, you said?

• 12:00Daniel Amen?

  Seven hundred a day.

• 12:01Lewis Howes?

  Seven hundred a day. We're just, they're being born and dying right away.

• 12:04Daniel Amen?

  Right.

• 12:04Lewis Howes?

  As opposed to connecting and multiplying functionality, neurons in the brain.

• 12:09Daniel Amen?

  And helping your mood and helping your memory. And what's interesting, I'm sixty-six. My youngest is seventeen, getting ready to go off to college. And we produce the same number of stem cells every day. Hers are more likely to stay than an older person's because the blood flow to my brain, not my brain, but the blood flow to most sixty-six-year-olds is not healthy. And that's why aging is progressive. And did you know, this will horrify you, fifty percent of people eighty-five will have dementia. And I'm not okay with that.

• 12:44Lewis Howes?

  Fifty percent of people?

• 12:46Daniel Amen?

  Eighty-five. So if I'm fortunate enough to live to eighty-five or beyond, I have a one in two chance of having lost my mind. That's why I'm serious about this. I love my four children. I never want to live with them. I just don't. I just don't. And I never want to be a burden to them. And I know later in my dad's life, my siblings, because I'm the medical person, are like, you know, you need to take his keys from him. I'm like, do you know him? Do you know how that conversation's gonna go? And I don't want my kids having to have that conversation with me, which means I have

• 13:25Daniel Amen?

  to do the right thing so I can stay sharp for as long as I can. And so, I'm not overweight and I don't have high blood sugar because I get rid of the simple sugars in my life, bread, pasta, potato, rice, sugar. Those just, they don't have enough nutrients. To pay off the sugar.

• 13:49Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 13:49Daniel Amen?

  Right? They quickly turn to sugar. It's this thing called the glycemic index. Right?

• 13:53Lewis Howes?

  Do you have any cheat days or a little here and there?

• 13:56Daniel Amen?

  I do.

• 13:57Lewis Howes?

  Or is it like, hey, I'll have a dessert or a couple of bites?

• 13:59Daniel Amen?

  Yeah.

• 13:59Lewis Howes?

  Or are you like?

• 14:00Daniel Amen?

  I do. We go to Italy. I mean, not recently. We'll go to Italy and have a gelato. But it's...

• 14:06Lewis Howes?

  But it's the daily consumption of these things which are really hurting you.

• 14:09Daniel Amen?

  But I have things I love. Like, I have, almost every day, a cup of frozen blueberries. And I'll put a couple of Stevia Sweetened Chocolate Chips in it. And it's less than 100 calories, and I love it. Or the hot chocolate. I love that.

• 14:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 14:31Daniel Amen?

  And, you know, I have a protein shake in the morning. And I love it. Right? I only eat food I love. That loves me back.

• 14:40Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 14:43Lewis Howes?

  It's gonna take a practice, you know, for a lot of people. We've been conditioned to eat bad foods consistently for so long. We've gotta condition ourselves to start eating good foods.

• 14:50Daniel Amen?

  It's just a habit.

• 14:51Lewis Howes?

  It's a habit.

• 14:52Daniel Amen?

  Right? Is it a good habit or a bad habit? And your brain is always listening. There's actually a whole section on bad habit dragons. And the worst bad habit dragon is the oblivious bad habit dragon. Is you just never think about. Like, the products you put on your body. Another strategy under T for toxins is download the app Think Dirty. I have no financial interest in it. But the app Think is not what you think it is. It allows you to scan your personal products, and it'll tell you on a scale of 1 to 10, how quickly they're killing you. So, for example, since I was 14, I shaved with barbersol.

• 15:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 15:34Daniel Amen?

  I like it. It's soft. It works. On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being bad, it's a 9.

• 15:41Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 15:42Daniel Amen?

  And I'm like, no. I like myself way too much to put crap on my body. And so I get something now called Kiss My Face. That's a 2. And people go, well, it's more expensive. And it's like, it is, except it lasts 50 times longer. So it's way less expensive. And I love it.

• 16:02Lewis Howes?

  It's less toxic.

• 16:03Daniel Amen?

  And it loves me back.

• 16:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 16:04Daniel Amen?

  And the same with the shampoo. I was using, um...

• 16:11Daniel Amen?

  I forget, but now I forget, it's been so long. And now I use something called Olafia, made in Africa, it's a two, get it on Amazon. It's just a practice of being thoughtful about what I put in my mouth, what I put on my body, and people go, isn't that hard? And I'm like, being sick is hard.

• 16:34Lewis Howes?

  That's hard.

• 16:34Daniel Amen?

  This is easy. God gave you a big brain for a reason. None of this is hard. It just, you create new and different habits. Cause ultimately, the mother habit, is this good for my brain? Or bad for it? No, by the way, if it's good for your heart, it's good for your brain. I wrote a fun book you would really like called The Brain in Love. I used to be a columnist for Men's Health Magazine. And I wrote a column for three years, "Am I Normal?" People write in about all the... And so anyways, I wrote Brain in Love. And I've been saying forever, whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain. Cause it's about blood flow.

• 17:15Daniel Amen?

  Your brain is 2% of your body's weight, but uses 20% of the blood flow. And 30% of the calories you consume, which is why food's so important. But whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain. And when I was writing Brain in Love, I went, whatever's good for your heart is good for your brain, is good for your genitals, cause it's all about blood flow. Did you know 40% of 40-year-olds have erectile dysfunction? Which means 40% of 40-year-olds have brain dysfunction. Cause if you have blood flow problems anywhere, it likely means they're everywhere.

• 17:53Lewis Howes?

  I'm 38, you're scaring me.

• 17:56Daniel Amen?

  But just me, it's just another reason to do the right things. Because your sex life is better. And I'm just a huge fan, and when people get on the brain health train, when they become a brain warrior, their erections get better. And I love that because I want people connected with their partners.

• 18:22Lewis Howes?

  How much does the brain affect our choices in intimate relationships? Our choices in who we choose to be partnered with, who we're connected to,

• 18:33Lewis Howes?

  our love life? How much of the brain helps or hurts our love?

• 18:38Daniel Amen?

  Well, your brain does what it's trained to do. So if you were trained by parents who bickered all the time, you're more likely to pick someone you bicker with even though you hate it.

• 18:51Lewis Howes?

  Don't like it, yeah.

• 18:53Daniel Amen?

  The brain doesn't like change. That's why therapy is important. Because it's like you can work on it over time and create new habits.

• 19:04Daniel Amen?

  I've scanned thousands of couples. I love scanning couples. And I didn't used to. I remember in 1991, I just started scanning. And I see this couple. They brought their two kids to see me because I'm also a child psychiatrist. And the little girl got better, but the little boy wasn't getting better. And as I saw him, I'm like, oh, his parents hate each other. He's under chronic stress. So I saw the parents. I'm like, you guys should come see me. Because your bad relationship is causing your son's stress. And they're like, Dr. Raymond, we like you a lot. We've seen four other marital therapists and they just make it worse. And in my head, don't ever have this thought.

• 19:48Daniel Amen?

  I'm like, well, maybe you just didn't see anybody good enough. Don't ever have that thought. And when I saw them on the first session, I had two blue leather couches in my office. They sat on the opposite end of each couch. It's a bad sign in marital therapy. And after about three months, I know I'm not going to get them better. I feel hopeless, which is terrible for a psychiatrist to feel. But she had a PhD in grudge holding. I mean, she was beating stuff. She'd bring up stuff from 15 years ago over and over. And she's married to a guy called The Sniper. Because he like was always late to appointments.

• 20:30Daniel Amen?

  And whenever she'd like settle down and be more able to learn, he would say something so evil, so awful to her, just to get her going again. And I start having physical stress symptoms when I realized they're on my schedule. And at nine months, I'm in the shower getting ready to go to work. And I know they're on my schedule, my stomach starts to hurt. And I'm like, damn, these people are in my shower. Today, I'm gonna tell them to get divorced. Because it's actually better for children to not be raised in chronic conflict than for the parents to stick together, fighting like they are. I agree. But I grew up Catholic. You don't get divorced. And it's like, you don't get divorced, it's a bad thing.

• 21:13Daniel Amen?

  And because I had that thought, the Catholic voice came and visited me. And she said, because you're not a good enough therapist, you're gonna condemn their soul style. Oh, wow. And I started looking at the water faucet going, how much therapy is this gonna take to get over? And I got out of the shower and I called my friend from the imaging center. I said, will you give me two scans for the price of one? Because I was always negotiating for my patients. And he's like, why? I said, Jack, I have this couple and I don't know what to do for them. He's like, couple? He said, you know, I've been married twice, I can't figure it out. Maybe we could do a website and call it brainmatch.com. Oh, man, that's amazing. I like that.

• 21:56Daniel Amen?

  And when I presented that to the couple, they're like, well, this isn't working, let's try something else. I mean, they knew it wasn't working too. And she had an OCD brain, which totally fit in retrospect. She just couldn't let anything go. OCD brains, their front part of their brain works way too hard. And he had an ADD brain. His front part was sleepy, which is why he was late and why he was conflict driven. And I put him on Ritalin, her on Prozac, balanced their brain. Told him I didn't wanna see him for a month because I needed a break. When they came back a month later, they sat on the same couch.

• 22:35Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:35Daniel Amen?

  She had her hand on his leg.

• 22:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:38Daniel Amen?

  Which is a good sign in marital therapy. And it's 30 years ago. I gave a lecture in San Francisco a couple of years ago. They came to it. They're still married.

• 22:48Lewis Howes?

  Shut up.

• 22:49Daniel Amen?

  They love each other. They don't fight with each other. She lets things go. He pays attention. And

• 22:56Lewis Howes?

  They're still married.

• 22:56Daniel Amen?

  With a better brain.

• 22:58Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:59Daniel Amen?

  Comes a better marriage. And when I met my second wife, when I met her, I knew I wasn't gonna fall in love with her until I saw her brain. And two weeks later, because I really liked her.

• 23:12Lewis Howes?

  So what does that mean? You like her, like, oh, but she needs to get scanned first before I say I'm yours?

• 23:18Daniel Amen?

  Yes, absolutely. And if you date any of my children for four months, if I think you're gonna stick around, I scan you. I'm not kidding.

• 23:27Lewis Howes?

  I love this.

• 23:28Daniel Amen?

  It's sort of like meet the parents.

• 23:29Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 23:30Daniel Amen?

  But worse.

• 23:35Daniel Amen?

  So Tana, my wife, is a neurosurgical ICU nurse, so she loves what we do. And so when I suggested, hey, come to the clinic, let me look at your brain, she was all in.

• 23:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay. And then what did you see in the brain and how did that match your

• 23:50Daniel Amen?

  So her brain was actually pretty healthy, but I could see she had a head trauma in the past. And I'm like, do you ever have a head injury? And she said, no. And I'm like, because the scans don't lie. And I'm like, so maybe it was before she could remember anything, right? But she's like, no. I'm like, ever in a car accident? She goes, yeah, when I was 25, my sister fell asleep at the wheel going 75 miles an hour. We flipped three times, landed on the roof. And only because my seat was, I was laying back, that I survived. She said, but I didn't lose consciousness.

• 24:30Daniel Amen?

  And what people don't realize, consciousness is a brain stem phenomenon, really deep in the brain. You can totally damage the cortex of the brain.

• 24:42Lewis Howes?

  So.

• 24:43Daniel Amen?

  So we work to make it better and she's been my best friend for 15 years.

• 24:50Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So if someone has a damaged brain, let's say you're hypothetically have the, you know, the ability to go get a scan, you meet someone, you're dating them, you're like, I really like this person, I'm gonna get them scanned, and their brain is messed up, let's just say.

• 25:03Daniel Amen?

  Just know you're in for a wild ride. Now, if they're not willing to do anything about it, why would you be in a relationship with it? It's just your life's gonna be hard. But I love them and it's going to be stressful. But if they're like, oh, well, let's make this better.

• 25:22Lewis Howes?

  Let's improve it.

• 25:23Daniel Amen?

  That's awesome. Right? I mean, that's the attitude. Right? If I scanned my daughter's boyfriend and he goes, no, I'm not gonna do any of this. You need to move him on.

• 25:36Lewis Howes?

  Or you've got a decision, you're either gonna struggle in this relationship and you maybe have some good times, but a lot of stress, or you can move on.

• 25:44Daniel Amen?

  Right. It's just a piece of information that I think everybody should have. And when you're young and loved, you don't really think about, wow, how's his mom? How's his dad? What's the family history? But, you know, being 66 and being a psychiatrist for 40 years, all of those things matter.

• 26:03Lewis Howes?

  And what's the, so that's, we mentioned diet obesity, which is being overweight, high blood sugar, obesity, stuff like that. What's the S in Bright Minds?

• 26:14Daniel Amen?

  Sleep. Absolutely essential. So we talked about autophagy early. That's what happens when you sleep. Your brain cleans, it washes itself. Actually, the cleaning crew shows up. We didn't even know that. It's a system called the glymphatic system that is asleep, basically, when you're awake and turns on when you're asleep.

• 26:38Lewis Howes?

  Sweeping out thoughts, stress, fats.

• 26:41Daniel Amen?

  Integrating information, but literally cleaning the synapses.

• 26:46Daniel Amen?

  In your brain, like the cleaning crew shows up. And if you're not sleeping six and a half, seven, eight hours a night, trash is building up in your brain, making you more likely to be depressed, to have brain fog.

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  Overweight, all those things, right?

• 27:04Daniel Amen?

  Yeah, and so being disciplined about a good time for sleep, avoiding things that hurt sleep, doing things that help sleep can be just so helpful.

• 27:17Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I had Andrew Huberman on a couple of times, neuroscientist out of Stanford. And I told him, you know, I'm trying to improve the quality of my brain. And I'm taking Spanish class three days a week. I've got a private Spanish teacher. One, because for 20 years, I've always wanted to do it, but it always gets too hard and I stop. And then at the end of the year, when I reflect on what I'm proud of, I'm always not proud that I didn't stick with something I wanted to do. So I keep telling myself, I either need to let this dream go and kill the dream and move on with my life, or I need to actually be consistent with it, even if it takes me years of practice until I'm fluent and conversational.

• 28:00Lewis Howes?

  And for the first three months, it was like, it hurt my brain so much. Just learning, studying, trying to remember these things, it just was painful. Now I'm noticing the ideas are just as complex, but my brain isn't under so much pain and stress, or just confusion, or whatever. Like, I'm not enough, or I can't get this, or whatever it's saying. It's more like, okay, I understand this is challenging, but I know I can get this. So let me be patient with myself. And I feel like I'm picking up so much more because I may not get it in that moment, but then the next day or three days later, because I'm resting, because I'm cleaning out the mess, it's integrating. Like, when I sleep, I feel like it's integrating what I learned days ago, and now I remember it.

• 28:44Lewis Howes?

  But if I'm not sleeping well, if I'm stressed out, it's much harder to remember these things.

• 28:49Daniel Amen?

  Absolutely. Because it's one of the things that sleep does. It integrates what we learn during the day. And it compares it to our experience from the past, and then decides what's to keep and what to let go. But if you're not sleeping well, like, or you're drinking to put yourself to sleep, it damages REM sleep, which is the most restorative sleep. And...

• 29:16Daniel Amen?

  You're not gonna get the benefit from it.

• 29:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:18Daniel Amen?

  So, sleep is absolutely essential. Sleep apnea, people who snore loudly, who stop breathing at night, triples their risk of Alzheimer's disease.

• 29:29Lewis Howes?

  Sleep apnea, so how do we, well, I mean, it's probably, applying these things will help you get rid of sleep apnea. And obesity is probably a big part of sleep apnea, I'm assuming, right?

• 29:37Daniel Amen?

  For some people. Now, some people are thin and have sleep apnea and they need to wear a CPAP. But, working with the smartest people I know, right? This would be part of greatness. That the smartest people I know work with the smartest people they know.

• 29:53Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 29:53Daniel Amen?

  And so, stop denying you have a problem, or saying, "I won't do this or that." So many guys go, "Oh, never wear a CPAP." It's like, well, you're murdering those baby seahorses every night when you're not breathing. Because, so, we talked about, your brain uses 30% of the calories you consume. 20% of the blood flow goes to your brain. 20% of the oxygen. Any oxygen debt state damages your brain. And I have like, near drowning, um, brains. They're just awful.

• 30:33Daniel Amen?

  Any oxygen debt state, and sleep apnea is an oxygen debt state.

• 30:39Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 30:39Daniel Amen?

  Because you're stopped breathing, which is a very bad thing.

• 30:44Lewis Howes?

  Are you able to recover those brains that had near drowning, or?

• 30:48Daniel Amen?

  Sometimes.

• 30:49Lewis Howes?

  Sometimes.

• 30:49Daniel Amen?

  Yeah, it depends. We don't have the Lazarus treatment to bring dead cells, dead brain cells back to life, but we can get the struggling ones better.

• 30:59Lewis Howes?

  Better.

• 31:00Daniel Amen?

  And, I have one girl, it just breaks my heart. Uh, she was taking too much of a pain medication, and her heart stopped for 10 minutes. And I have her brain beforehand, it was this big fat, I don't know, watermelon. And now it's like a prune. And I can get it better, it's never going to be normal.

• 31:22Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 31:23Daniel Amen?

  Heartbreaking.

• 31:24Lewis Howes?

  Is she able to have an okay life still? Or is it just struggling with?

• 31:29Daniel Amen?

  And, and, and it's not just her. It's her parents. Lives will never be the same again. We, we have to be so much more serious about brain health.

• 31:43Lewis Howes?

  When someone's brain shrinks over trauma, physical trauma, emotional trauma, whatever it might be, when it shrinks, obesity, what happens to the brain inside the skull? Is there more room? Is there more fluid in between the brain and the skull? Like, what is actually? How small could it be? Is it rattling? Like, what is actually happening with the space between the brain and the skull when it shrinks?

• 32:09Daniel Amen?

  So it gets bigger. The space gets bigger.

• 32:11Lewis Howes?

  Space gets bigger.

• 32:11Daniel Amen?

  And so fluid will take it up.

• 32:14Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 32:14Daniel Amen?

  Uh, cause your brain's, you know, has to be contained. But that's not what you want.

• 32:21Lewis Howes?

  You don't want fluid.

• 32:22Daniel Amen?

  You don't want.

• 32:23Lewis Howes?

  A lot of fluid.

• 32:24Daniel Amen?

  More fluid. In fact, if you have too much fluid, it's called hydrocephalus. And that can shrink the brain. One of the causes of Alzheimer's disease is called NPH or normal pressure hydrocephalus. And when we put a shunt in and drain some of that excess fluid, people actually think better.

• 32:46Lewis Howes?

  Put a shunt in the brain, the skull, open up the skull.

• 32:49Daniel Amen?

  Put a shunt and then we have it drain into your abdomen.

• 32:53Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 32:53Daniel Amen?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Lewis Howes?

  How does that work?

• 32:54Daniel Amen?

  And that's not uncommon.

• 32:55Lewis Howes?

  Put something in the brain and it goes down?

• 32:57Daniel Amen?

  But like, think of a tube.

• 32:59Lewis Howes?

  A tube goes to the outside of the body or what?

• 33:00Daniel Amen?

  No, no, inside. Well, they'll tunnel it underneath your skin and neck and so on.

• 33:06Lewis Howes?

  It goes all the way down?

• 33:07Daniel Amen?

  Yeah.

• 33:07Lewis Howes?

  That's a crazy.

• 33:08Daniel Amen?

  I actually did a study, it was fascinating, on something called omental transposition surgery, where we took the omentum from the gut. So it's like this fatty apron on top of your abdominal organs. And it's loaded with stem cells. So we actually bunched it up and put it on the brain, but kept it connected to the blood supply in the gut. It was pretty wicked surgery. But we found it really improved cognition. Now, this was before the whole stem cell movement. We've been working with stem cells to improve brain function.

• 33:45Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 33:45Daniel Amen?

  Pretty interesting.

• 33:46Lewis Howes?

  Crazy. I want to ask you about dopamine. In the last, I believe, seven years, I feel like with social media, smartphones, kids having smartphones, much earlier and earlier, video games, the access to these things.

• 34:05Lewis Howes?

  The constant dopamine hits that we're all getting more with our phones. What does an overwhelm of dopamine do to the brain? Does it support brain health? Does it hurt brain health? Should we have, you know, only 10% of the dopamine we're getting? What is it doing to our function of our brains?

• 34:24Daniel Amen?

  Dopamine is really important. It's a very important neurotransmitter. Now, there are a bunch of them that are really important. Serotonin and oxytocin and endorphins and cortisol. Dopamine works on the area called the nucleus accumbens, which is the pleasure center in the brain. Push on that and you feel, whoa, I like that. If you push on it too much or too intensely, it wears it out. And, which is why my book, Feel Better Fast, there's a whole section on drip dopamine, don't dump it.

• 35:03Lewis Howes?

  Don't dump dopamine on yourself.

• 35:06Daniel Amen?

  Don't dump it. In fact, in Your Brain Is Always Listening, I have a brand new 12-step program. The 12-step program for addiction was actually developed 85 years ago and has no neuroscience in any of the 12 steps. And one would think the brain should be part of the 12 steps. So I redid the 12 steps. I know, some 12-steppers will hate me. But I'm like, well, if a neuroscientist was gonna do it, what would I do? And step number seven is drip dopamine, don't dump it. Because when you dump dopamine, pornography dumps dopamine. Cocaine dumps dopamine.

• 35:43Lewis Howes?

  Alcohol.

• 35:44Daniel Amen?

  Alcohol dumps it.

• 35:46Lewis Howes?

  Drugs.

• 35:46Daniel Amen?

  Skydiving dumps it. Running with the bulls dumps it, along with a whole bunch of cortisol. You wear out your pleasure centers, which is why in Justin Bieber's docu-series Seasons, he came out, I was his doctor. He talks about dopamine. And I pray that children do not become famous until their brains are developed. He was famous really early. And every bad thing happened to him because he felt bad. He had no dopamine left. He'd worn out his pleasure centers.

• 36:26Lewis Howes?

  Getting so much of it all day long, all the attention.

• 36:28Daniel Amen?

  And so part of the therapy was we have to rehabilitate your pleasure centers. And so you want to avoid things that dump dopamine and engage in things that drip dopamine.

• 36:42Lewis Howes?

  What are some of those things?

• 36:43Daniel Amen?

  Like our conversation today. I mean, it's just been so much fun for me. Holding my wife's hand, looking in her eyes, playing with the grandbabies. Oregano drips dopamine. Pumpkin seeds drip dopamine. Magnesium drip dopamine. Rhodiola, ashwagandha, I mean, some cool supplements. So I want to protect my pleasure centers because pleasure, in many ways, can be the enemy of happiness.

• 37:15Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 37:16Daniel Amen?

  Because if you have too much, it wears them out and then you begin to feel flat. And that's how addictions start. Something dumps dopamine, you go, oh, that's awesome. Like a young superstar does a concert, like, that's amazing. But afterwards, they have nothing left.

• 37:34Lewis Howes?

  They're alone in their hotel room or whatever, yeah.

• 37:36Daniel Amen?

  And they're playing video games, which is dumping dopamine that they don't have. And so then they're like, well, maybe I'll smoke. Maybe I'll vape. Maybe I'll do marijuana or cocaine. And then it's flattening the response. Sugar does this too. It actually flattens the response. It's like, whoa, ew. Whoa, ew. And pretty much you're into whoa, ew.

• 38:02Lewis Howes?

  Your whole life.

• 38:03Daniel Amen?

  That's the addiction.

• 38:05Lewis Howes?

  How, this is gonna upset a lot of people.

• 38:10Lewis Howes?

  What is the research and the science saying about marijuana? In terms of the brain health in marijuana? Cause there's a lot of people talking about how it's actually relaxing them. I've never been high on anything in my life. I've never done drugs, never been drunk, never drinking alcohol. Except for a couple sips when I was a kid as a taste.

• 38:28Daniel Amen?

  So your brain is probably gonna be better than you think.

• 38:30Lewis Howes?

  I hope so. I hope so. Yeah, never been drunk.

• 38:33Daniel Amen?

  And I'm one of the few people, I've been drunk twice, but I learned quickly. I'm like, no, I don't like to be out of control. It's not for me. All the hater comments come out when I talk about marijuana.

• 38:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:46Daniel Amen?

  But I was, I mean, it was 20 years ago. I was on the radio with Michael Savage in the Bay Area. And he's like, people are just gonna hate you when you talk about marijuana.

• 38:59Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 38:59Daniel Amen?

  I said, but everybody who calls in, who's been smoking for a while, is gonna spontaneously complain of memory problems. And everybody who called in complained of memory problems.

• 39:12Lewis Howes?

  I can't remember yet.

• 39:12Daniel Amen?

  So I, I knew it was trouble right after I started looking at scans. It makes your brain look older.

• 39:20Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 39:20Daniel Amen?

  Than you are.

• 39:22Lewis Howes?

  How am I, are you smoking daily or once a week or?

• 39:25Daniel Amen?

  Well, if you smoke once a week.

• 39:27Lewis Howes?

  Is this both?

• 39:28Daniel Amen?

  It's just marijuana. If you smoke once a week, the problem is it's fat soluble, which means it stays in your body for 30 days.

• 39:38Lewis Howes?

  Oh man.

• 39:39Daniel Amen?

  And so that one decision can actually impact your brain for 30 days. And so if you're smoking a lot, you have a pretty high level in your body. And I published a study with my colleagues from USC on a thousand pot smokers. We compared them to a group that never smoked.

• 40:05Lewis Howes?

  What happened?

• 40:06Daniel Amen?

  Every area of their brain was lower.

• 40:09Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 40:09Daniel Amen?

  Every area of their brain was lower in blood flow. Blood flow is really important.

• 40:15Lewis Howes?

  Now, is it, is it the pot? Or maybe, maybe they're also eating sugar or drinking? Or they're also overweight?

• 40:21Daniel Amen?

  It was that consistent variable that we looked at. And then I did the world's largest imaging study on 62,454 scans, looking just at how the brain ages. What do little kids' brains look like? What do old people's brains? What's the trajectory of aging? And it sort of sucks. Really busy brains, kids have really busy brains. Sort of levels out by the time you're 25, 26. And then it stays that way until you're 60, and then it starts to drop off. It's not good. And then we looked at, well, what accelerated aging in our database? And schizophrenia was actually the worst.

• 41:04Daniel Amen?

  They, their brains were like 10 years older. Then the next worst was marijuana. And it shocked us. Cause we looked at alcohol and smoking, depression, ADHD. No, it was marijuana. I'm very concerned. And now I'm a fan of legalizing marijuana, cause please don't put people who smoke pot in jail. That is just a bad use of resources. But let's not say it's healthy. It's healthy for us. Because it's not. Kids who smoke, teenagers who smoke or use edibles have a higher incidence of anxiety, depression, and suicide as teenagers.

• 41:45Lewis Howes?

  Funny you're saying that because you see the case, or I'll see this online, of people making the case for marijuana. And I'm, if people wanna smoke and drink, it's on them. You know, I'm choosing not to personally for myself, but I'm not here to judge someone or make someone wrong. But I see people make the case to say, well, look at this person who, I don't even know what the condition's called, where it's like they're shaking, they can't control their body, they're like constantly shaking when they move, and then they smoke, and then all of a sudden you see them relaxed. It's these viral videos of these individuals who have these conditions or can't calm their mind, they have marijuana, and then all of a sudden they're like the most peaceful, relaxed person. And it helps that condition.

• 42:24Daniel Amen?

  And there's evidence for, it can work to help some forms of seizures. There's evidence for that. It helps with nausea and chemotherapy. It helps with appetite for people who are really struggling with cancer and they've lost their appetite. And it's like a lot of other things that can be good.

• 42:54Daniel Amen?

  And bad.

• 42:55Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 42:56Daniel Amen?

  And so, I mean.

• 42:58Lewis Howes?

  You gotta make your choice, yeah.

• 42:59Daniel Amen?

  Ketamine, for example, has been shown to have antidepressant qualities, and yet is a drug of abuse. And so, in a supervised setting, for some people it can be helpful. But let's not unleash it on the whole population.

• 43:14Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 43:15Daniel Amen?

  And because

• 43:16Lewis Howes?

  As a recreational thing.

• 43:16Daniel Amen?

  As the perception of a drug, as the perception of dangerousness of a drug goes down, use goes up. And that's what's happening for our children.

• 43:26Lewis Howes?

  And marijuana, I'm hearing you say, based on this 60,000 scan study, is this what it was, 60,000? Is one of the, one of the main factors for aging faster.

• 43:37Daniel Amen?

  Correct.

• 43:37Lewis Howes?

  The brain aging faster, which makes you lose memory, which makes you slow down, all these things, right?

• 43:43Daniel Amen?

  Correct.

• 43:45Lewis Howes?

  And what about smoking?

• 43:46Daniel Amen?

  It's bad.

• 43:47Lewis Howes?

  It's bad.

• 43:48Daniel Amen?

  Because nicotine constricts blood flow to the brain. And so, and that's vaping.

• 43:53Lewis Howes?

  Vaping is just as bad.

• 43:54Daniel Amen?

  Vaping is just as bad.

• 43:55Lewis Howes?

  Well, even if it doesn't have the toxins.

• 43:57Daniel Amen?

  When you vape, you don't have as many toxins. But the flavoring is toxic. And so, um, it's just, it's a bad idea to get involved in changing your consciousness. What's the matter with your consciousness? Let's change that. Use diaphragmatic breathing, taming the ants, killing, uh, or killing the ants, taming the dragons. Let's teach you how to mentally manage your mind, so you don't have to medicate it.

• 44:27Lewis Howes?

  Have you seen anyone who is, the mind is under so much attack that they've been addicted to substances, they've tried to get off, and they're unable to stay consistent with healthier habits because they had some type of mental condition that was so aggressive that they were just like, I need to drink, I need to smoke because I've tried the other way and it doesn't work. Or have you seen people who have been successful time after time if they're able to follow the challenging practices consistently to improve the quality of their brain?

• 44:59Daniel Amen?

  See, I would say they're simple practices. I've seen people.

• 45:03Lewis Howes?

  Challenging for people to.

• 45:04Daniel Amen?

  I've seen people both ways. Right? And often it takes enough pain for them to change.

• 45:13Lewis Howes?

  Meaning what?

• 45:13Daniel Amen?

  But sometimes, like losing their kids. But sometimes even when they lose their kids, they don't change because their brain has been hijacked.

• 45:23Daniel Amen?

  I mean, I don't know if you're like me, but one of the reasons I never did drugs is I never wanted something else to control my life.

• 45:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it was one of the reasons. I also never wanted to make an excuse if, because I would see people, especially playing football in college, guys would get drunk after a game and then they would, they would not be well the next day at practice. That was one. I was like, I want to have an advantage, but then people would do things and they're like cheating their girlfriend, oh, I was drunk, I'm sorry. I was like, if I cheat or do something bad, I want to own it. I want to be responsible for being a jerk or being a whatever I did as opposed to blaming a substance that did that thing.

• 46:03Daniel Amen?

  So you want to be in control.

• 46:04Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 46:05Daniel Amen?

  Of your whole life? And that's what I want. I don't want anything else controlling me. And if you know these things are potentially addictive, it's like playing Russian roulette. It's like, I would never play Russian roulette. I'm like, that's stupid. You know, why would I increase my chance of trouble? I mean, you know, to think you're invulnerable, it's not, not a, not a smart way to, to live. But anyway, I've seen patients both ways, you know? Some people come and I teach them how to correct their negative thoughts and they walk, walk out of my office. It's like, no, I can't do that. I'm attached to, I'm a loser. And other people, they get it.

• 46:48Daniel Amen?

  And I'm always trying to be, how can I be more effective? And I find the easier I make it, the simpler I make it, like, you know, how do I get my brain healthy? Bright lines. It's like super simple. Right? I mean, it's a little complicated, but it's your brain.

• 47:07Lewis Howes?

  What about the, the wave of plant medicine use and normalization of plant medicine? The people saying it's transformation of, transformational work, helping them heal their pain of their past, helping them overcome trauma, helping them break through things they've never been able to mentally break through with.

• 47:30Lewis Howes?

  This work of ayahuasca, plant medicine, all these different things. What are your thoughts on that in terms of brain scan results?

• 47:39Daniel Amen?

  Well, I actually did a study with ibogaine, which is one of the plant medications.

• 47:43Lewis Howes?

  It's like an ayahuasca or?

• 47:45Daniel Amen?

  It's like ayahuasca and it wasn't good from a brain perspective.

• 47:50Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 47:50Daniel Amen?

  But I think it's going to be an interesting, exciting part of psychiatry. And there are lots of studies, there's just recently legalized, not now, but in two years in Oregon and.

• 48:04Lewis Howes?

  They're legalized what, plant medicine?

• 48:06Daniel Amen?

  Plant medicine.

• 48:06Lewis Howes?

  In Oregon?

• 48:07Daniel Amen?

  Yeah, mushrooms.

• 48:08Lewis Howes?

  Oh, they are.

• 48:08Daniel Amen?

  Psilocybin.

• 48:09Lewis Howes?

  In Oregon?

• 48:10Daniel Amen?

  Yeah, microdosing.

• 48:12Lewis Howes?

  Because they're seeing some benefits.

• 48:13Daniel Amen?

  The problem is, I wish, so the big innovations in psychiatry now are magic mushrooms and marijuana and more medications. And I'm like, how about diet, exercise and learning how to not believe every stupid thing you think? Don't you think we should at least start?

• 48:29Lewis Howes?

  Those three simple things.

• 48:29Daniel Amen?

  Let's start there.

• 48:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:32Daniel Amen?

  Let's start, you know, with brain health. But I think it's going to be an interesting, exciting thing. But you know psychiatrists were really interested and excited about Valium. And they were really interested and excited about cocaine. Freud used cocaine.

• 48:54Daniel Amen?

  And they went, oh, they're interested and excited about marijuana. And they go, well, the brain has cannabinoid receptor sites. Well, the brain also has benzo receptor sites and that didn't work out well. And the brain also has opiate receptor sites and that didn't work out well. We should be finding ways to naturally increase opiates and that's exercise.

• 49:17Lewis Howes?

  People say, well, plants are natural, you know, and this has been happening for centuries with our ancestors and.

• 49:24Daniel Amen?

  And cocaine is natural.

• 49:28Daniel Amen?

  Right?

• 49:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 49:29Daniel Amen?

  I mean, just because...

• 49:30Lewis Howes?

  Sugar is natural, I guess.

• 49:31Daniel Amen?

  Sugar is natural. Right. I mean, is it helpful? That's the question.

• 49:37Lewis Howes?

  So what about magic mushrooms or mushrooms or microdosing this? You know, I've heard mushrooms are good to eat, you know, food mushrooms.

• 49:45Daniel Amen?

  Well, I actually make. I have a supplement company called BrainMD. And we make something called Smart Mushrooms. I put a scoop in my shake every morning. It's got lion's mane and cordyceps and reishi. And they have both immune system benefits and cognitive benefits. And I feel at 66, every bit as sharp as when I was 20.

• 50:07Lewis Howes?

  So what's the difference between those mushrooms versus the medicine mushrooms?

• 50:12Daniel Amen?

  They don't have hallucinogenic effects, so...

• 50:15Lewis Howes?

  What else does the brain when we hallucinate?

• 50:17Daniel Amen?

  It activates. It actually turns on some of the limbic or emotional parts of the brain. And if you're doing it in a therapeutic environment, you might be able to reprocess some of those painful memories in a different way. You might be able to separate from them, get a different perspective of them. But there are other ways to do that that might not have side effects. Like, there's a treatment for trauma I like called EMDR.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  I was just gonna ask about that.

• 50:49Daniel Amen?

  Eye movement desensitization and reprocess. I studied that in police officers.

• 50:52Lewis Howes?

  I hear amazing things from this.

• 50:54Daniel Amen?

  So helpful.

• 50:56Lewis Howes?

  And that does a similar strategy of...

• 50:58Daniel Amen?

  Activates your emotional brain and then calms it. So I did a study with police officers who had PTSD from being involved in shootings. And most police officers don't want to be involved in shootings. That it becomes traumatic for them if they hurt someone. And like soldiers in war, and they were all off work. And on average of eight EMDR sessions, they all went back to work. And it calmed down the emotional parts of their brain. So that's pretty exciting. There's another technique I use called Havening, which is bilateral hemisphere stimulation. That's what EMDR is.

• 51:42Daniel Amen?

  You bring up the trauma, get your eyes to go back and forth. And that trauma connects to another trauma, which can connect to another. It's really interesting. But Havening is just really simple. It's thinking about the trauma. I want people always to go into their pain, not away from their pain. And so, for example, I told you my dad died May 5th last year. And a couple of days later, I'm at my mom's house. And we're just going through paperwork, right? I mean, it's what you do after somebody dies. And somebody, some idiot, had a picture of my dead father in the mortuary, in that stack of papers.

• 52:25Daniel Amen?

  And I'm just, and all of a sudden I find it and it hits me. And it just bothered me. And, and a couple of hours later, I realized it was bothering me. It was circling in my head. And so I teach my patients this. It's Havening. It's like, think about what's bothering you. And for 30 seconds, stimulate both hemispheres of your brain. So as I do this, it's stimulating that side. If I do that, stimulate while you bring up the trauma. And do that like up to six times. And after the first time, I'm like, that's the last picture of my dad I'll ever see. And it was okay. And then I did it twice more.

• 53:08Daniel Amen?

  And the picture became my favorite picture of my dad, because he was at peace.

• 53:16Daniel Amen?

  And I slept like a baby that night. And the picture never bothered me again. It's just simple. And there's these simple techniques that everybody should know. Why do you have to be sick to learn how to be well? Shouldn't we have? And we have a high school course called Brain Thrive by 25, that we teach kids how to love and care for their brains, their minds, their relationships, and be purposeful.

• 53:49Lewis Howes?

  You've got some beautiful techniques, some beautiful information. I'm very grateful for this. I've got, I think, a couple more questions if we've got some time. I've got so many notes here. This has been extremely helpful. I want to talk about memory.

• 54:07Lewis Howes?

  And then we can probably, I think we can wrap it up because I'm probably going a little, a little long here. But I'll talk about memory.

• 54:14Lewis Howes?

  In an age of having everything at our fingertips and having all the information available without needing to remember, how important is it for us to get back to remembering? Remembering phone, I remember as a kid, I used to know all these phone numbers from your mom, you know, your home, your dad's office.

• 54:31Daniel Amen?

  Now we don't know any of them.

• 54:32Lewis Howes?

  Exactly. Girlfriend's phone number, right? It's like it's always programmed to click a button and, and have an action. How important is memory training for us as humans in a world of lack of memory? And what are a few things we could do to increase the ability to remember?

• 54:52Daniel Amen?

  So like you're learning Spanish. Working your memory helps you to keep it. We actually have a course. I work with someone, I don't know if you've ever interviewed Jim Carroll. He's hysterical. He's a memory athlete.

• 55:07Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 55:08Daniel Amen?

  And yeah, you would love him.

• 55:12Daniel Amen?

  And he was a steel mill worker and selling Avon products. And then he had cardiomyopathy when he was 49. And as he was doing his PT, he was riding a bike and rather than watch TV, he started memorizing things. And that was the secret. New learning with exercise. He learned all the ZIP codes in the United States.

• 55:39Lewis Howes?

  All of them?

• 55:40Daniel Amen?

  All of them.

• 55:41Lewis Howes?

  Wait, how many ZIP codes are there?

• 55:42Daniel Amen?

  Thousands.

• 55:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 55:44Daniel Amen?

  In fact, you could just say, you know, your ZIP code and he'd go, hey, you're from Erie, Pennsylvania.

• 55:49Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 55:50Daniel Amen?

  His memory is just phenomenal.

• 55:53Daniel Amen?

  And then he learned all the Oscar movies and all the Oscar actresses and actors. And his memory is just unbelievable. He can go to a group of 2,000 people and give them tickets that have 12 letters on them and a movie on the other side. And he'll call on people randomly. You tell me the movie, I'll tell you the 12-digit number. A lot like Jim Quick. A lot like Jim Quick. And he's hysterical. He's like a great entertainer. And if you use it, you get to keep it. If you don't use it, you'll lose it.

• 56:37Daniel Amen?

  And so it's really important. Now, you know, we're probably not going to be remembering phone numbers because we have our auxiliary brains. But our auxiliary brains is causing Alzheimer's to be diagnosed three or four years later when it's actually harder to get help. Because I would diagnose people when I first started in practice 30 years ago because their family would call me up and they say, "He's getting lost in a place he's lived in 30 years." But now you just have to go, "Hey Siri, take me home." And so these auxiliary memories are actually causing people to be diagnosed later. We should always be working on our brains. New learning is just absolutely essential.

• 57:22Daniel Amen?

  So Spanish is great. Learning a musical instrument is great. A dance or whatever. You know, producing stuff for television is great. It's a new skill. Marketing is a new skill. Anything that challenges you. Anything. And you should be doing things that are new and different. Like I know how to read brain scans. Like hopefully you'll come and I'll look at your brain. I'll know immediately, healthy, not healthy. How many people have been through your labs? Well, we have done 183,000 scans. In how many years? In 30 years. And we have 300 NFL players.

• 58:05Daniel Amen?

  I love what I do.

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  It's amazing.

• 58:07Daniel Amen?

  I'm so grateful. I had no idea that when I decided to be a psychiatrist.

• 58:12Lewis Howes?

  This would happen.

• 58:13Daniel Amen?

  This would, this would have been my life.

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  I'm, I'm very excited about your book. I was going through it. I'm a big fan already. Your brain is always listening. Tame the hidden dragons that control your happiness, habits, and hangups. There are so many credible exercises on how to deal with any type of struggle or stress that you might have in your life right now, whether it be addiction, whether it be negative thoughts, whether it be dealing with past traumas. You have the reasoning behind these things. You've got the exercises on how to, to overcome them. You've got everything in here, which is extremely powerful. You've got simple strategies. You've got more complex things. You've got graphics that explain stuff for me. So it's, it's amazing. It's,

• 58:58Lewis Howes?

  I think everyone should read this. Overcome Pain From Your Past. It's funny, I just did a video yesterday saying if you can learn to overcome the pain from your past, your life will be a hundred times better just by that one simple thing. And this is something you teach in here through the science, through the research. Everything you need in here to optimize your brain is here. Check it out. Get the book. Get a few for your friends. Your brain is always listening. Make sure you get this book. Couple of final questions and then we'll wrap things up.

• 59:27Lewis Howes?

  This is a, a question I ask everyone at the end called the three truths question. So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical situation. It's your last day on earth, many years away. You've accomplished all of your dreams and goals and you're happy and healthy and everything you want to do, you've done. But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your written work with you, your video work, your content. It's all going to go with you to the next place, wherever you go. And no one has access to your information anymore, but you get to leave behind three things you know to be true. Three lessons you would share with the world. And this is all we have to remember you by. I call it three truths. What would be three things you would share with the world?

• 1:00:09Daniel Amen?

  Brain envy. Love your brain. Don't believe every stupid thing you think. Know what you want and ask yourself every day, does my behavior fit?

• 1:00:21Daniel Amen?

  What I want.

• 1:00:25Daniel Amen?

  People don't do that. It's crazy. They should be teaching this to seven year olds. What do you want? Relationships, schoolwork, money, your health? What do you want? Is your behavior getting you what you want? Rather than say you should do this, or you should do that. Shoulds don't work. It's just getting people to know and then act. And if they have a healthy brain, it's easier.

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:56Lewis Howes?

  I want to acknowledge you for a moment before I ask the final question.

• 1:01:00Lewis Howes?

  The work you continue to do is so inspiring. And it's helping so many people when they allow themselves to learn, to apply it and take action. So I really acknowledge you for being so passionate about this work, for showing up for people's lives, for being someone that cares deeply about human beings, the quality of their life, improving their brain health, which is the quality of their relationships and everything. I just think we need more people like you. And I'm really grateful that you're alive, healthy, and driven on this mission, because I think a lot more people would be suffering without you creating this work in a simple way, without you scanning people and getting the data that proves these things. So I really acknowledge you. And I'm grateful you're alive. I really am, because this stuff's really inspiring for me.

• 1:01:47Lewis Howes?

  Where else can we support you? Besides getting your book, following you on social media? Where else can we go if we want to learn more? If we want to take your courses, get supplements that can help our brains? Where should we go?

• 1:02:02Daniel Amen?

  So the supplements, brainmd.com to support your brain. Amen University, we have courses, Amen Clinics, I have nine clinics, I have a new clinic in Dallas. It's just crazy busy. Later this year, we're going to open a new clinic in South Florida.

• 1:02:24Daniel Amen?

  And then my wife and I do podcasts together. We have 847 episodes.

• 1:02:29Lewis Howes?

  Almost as big as this.

• 1:02:31Daniel Amen?

  The Brain Warrior's Way. They're like 10 minute little inspirational pieces.

• 1:02:41Daniel Amen?

  To get people excited.

• 1:02:44Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:02:44Daniel Amen?

  Because we need a brain health revolution.

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:02:49Daniel Amen?

  Um, cause with that, we can end mental illness. But it's never gonna start with what we're doing now. We have to break the paradigm and create a new one.

• 1:03:00Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, so you're all mental illness or most of mental illness is connected to brain health? Would you say?

• 1:03:05Daniel Amen?

  Yes.

• 1:03:06Lewis Howes?

  All of it unless there's some type of trauma that?

• 1:03:08Daniel Amen?

  There's, it's foundational.

• 1:03:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:11Daniel Amen?

  If your brain's not right, you're not right. And it doesn't mean psychological trauma won't have an impact. But if your brain's not right, plus psychological trauma, going to psychotherapy is not gonna be as good as it could be.

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  Bright Minds. Everyone's gotta apply the Bright Minds method. Um, okay, so we'll check out your podcast, the Brain Warriors Way podcast. We'll link up all this stuff. Make sure you guys check out brainmd.com and everything else. Um, get the book. Final question for you. What is your definition of greatness?

• 1:03:51Daniel Amen?

  It's pushing to do what you know you can do.

• 1:03:57Daniel Amen?

  Despite what other people say.

• 1:04:00Lewis Howes?

  Appreciate you very much. Thank you.

• 1:04:02Lewis Howes?

  Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope it gave you a lot of clarity, a lot of wisdom and knowledge to help bridge the gap from where you are to where you wanna be in your brain health. And if you enjoyed this, please share the message forward so we can change lives together. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening to this, or you can just use the show notes link with all the resources over there at lewishouse.com/1121. And also make sure to check out part one. If you haven't listened to that one as well, just click right back to the previous episode if you're on the podcast app on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening. And if this is your first time here, click the subscribe button over on Apple Podcasts right now so you can stay up to date on the latest and greatest on the School of Greatness. We've got over a thousand episodes from some of the biggest names in the world helping

• 1:04:47Lewis Howes?

  you unlock your inner greatness and we are gonna have some incredible. Content moving forward here in the near future. So make sure to click the subscribe button right now and stay tuned for more greatness coming soon. And I want to leave you with this quote from RuPaul, who said, "True wealth is having a healthy mind, body, and spirit. True wealth is having the knowledge to maneuver and navigate the mental obstacles that inhibit your ability to soar. Now is your time to soar in this life." We have so many different challenges and obstacles in our way, but more than ever, we have so much more research and tools and science and strategies to help us heal, evolve, improve, and grow. And I hope this episode and this interview with Dr. Daniel

• 1:05:28Lewis Howes?

  Lehman gave you some tools to support you in your growth so that you can soar as well moving forward. I am so grateful for you. I'm so appreciative that you decided to take time today to improve the quality of your life. And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.