#409 - "Darker Than Satan" Demonologist on What Demons Actually Are | Nathan Gillis

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Nathaniel J. Gillis is a religious demonologist, author, and lecturer. He has sought to redefine the nature of haunting phenomena, ghosts, and "high strangeness," with a particular theory linking demonic entities to other paranormal categories. He argues Djinn, demons, aliens, and shadow people may all be variations of the same underlying phenomenon. SPONSORS https://mengotomars.com - Use code DANNY for 50% off for life. https://quo.com/danny - Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months. https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/zralgyl0 - Download Cash App today. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS https://parasymposia.com https://www.instagram.com/thenathanielgillis FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Demonologist on growing up in a haunted house 05:24 - What demons actually are 10:12 - Why demons smell like sulfur 16:47 - The ultra-terrestrial "shared reality" model 23:55 - Why the alien phenomenon targets children 28:29 - The phenomenon hijacks our consciousness 38:19 - The psyop of reverse engineered crafts 42:30 - Apports (phenomenon materializing objects) 47:47 - The Vatican's warning on non-human entities 49:22 - Explanation for light orbs & Chris Bledsoe 55:34 - Biological explanation for alien experiencers 59:11 - Evidence that apparitions & spirits can physically harm you 01:02:54 - Projected consciousness 01:08:49 - General McCasland & the Collins Elite 01:18:35 - Government's classified consciousness programs 01:22:03 - They believe Chris Bledsoe is Merlin 01:24:34 - Entities impregnating humans 01:34:49 - Abductees whose memories are wiped 01:39:44 - 4 movies that best describe the phenomenon 01:44:57 - NDEs 01:55:11 - Death bed visions & ancient AI 02:04:16 - Theory that the phenomenon has hijacked consciousness 02:09:06 - Leslie Wexner's demon possession 02:17:28 - Similarity between Satan & the phenomenon 02:21:36 - The phenomenon is precognitive 02:24:00 - 1970s scientists who went missing 02:29:33 - The government's "non-human biologics" 02:34:33 - Government says aliens created us Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 1:06Danny Jones?

  All right, Nathaniel Gillis, pleasure to meet you, brother.

• 1:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's my pleasure, man. It's my honor. It's great to be on your show. Big fan, been a fan for a long time, and it's surreal.

• 1:15Danny Jones?

  Thank you, man. Yeah, your work is fascinating. So what the hell's a demonologist?

• 1:20Speaker 03

  I go in and do in-home investigations, and I try to understand the pathology of what a demon is. So I didn't want to take the academic route, because if you do take that route, they're going to convince you of their own religious tradition. And what I realized early on was, I have what I've been told a demon is, and then I go in and do in-home investigations, and I'm like, hmm, there's a mismatch there. And so I wanted to stay true to the data and not the dogma.

• 1:46Danny Jones?

  Are you religious?

• 1:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I am.

• 1:49Danny Jones?

  Are you a Satanist?

• 1:50Speaker 03

  No, no, not at all, man, not at all. I just, I have a fascination with this stuff. You know, like, I grew up in a haunted house, and I've just been fascinated with this kind of research, for whatever reason.

• 2:03Danny Jones?

  You grew up in a haunted house?

• 2:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:06Danny Jones?

  What was that like?

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Terrifying. When I was eight years old, my, uh, my parents had purchased the home, and we just got in there, and I saw a full-bodied apparition of a little girl underneath my bed, or what would we call my bed?

• 2:22Speaker 03

  So I originally, we, we took a tour of the home. And so my dad's like, all right, son, this is going to be your future room if we end up putting in an offer. So I get in there and I remember feeling watched. I remember smelling sulfur or some kind of, yeah, ozone or something. I didn't, there was nothing in the room. It was just a bed there. That's the only thing they staged the home with was just the bed. So I remember it being in the room and I thought to myself, I feel watched. I smell something and it's, it's like, then you'll see this is common in the research where it's like a, a rotting or decomposing organic matter. And yet there's nothing in the room at all. And so I felt compelled to get on my hands and knees and look underneath the bed.

• 3:03Speaker 03

  And there was a little girl about eight years old, long black hair with a dress that looked to have been made during the turn of the century.

• 3:10Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 3:11Speaker 03

  And at first blush, I thought she belonged in the neighborhood. Right? I'm a kid, I'm eight years old. I had no frame of reference for hauntings or demons or anything like that. And so I, I just remember telling my parents like, hey, you know, we need to tell somebody in the neighborhood because there's a little girl that snuck in. You know, I thought she just belonged in the area. She didn't. Once we finally moved into that house, I realized after playing with all the kids there, getting to know everybody. Yeah, she didn't exist.

• 3:39Danny Jones?

  She was always there? Every time you looked?

• 3:41Speaker 03

  At least that one time. And that's, that's another fascinating pathology about.

• 3:45Danny Jones?

  When you saw her that one time, was she looking at you, moving or was it just looked like a dead body?

• 3:49Speaker 03

  No, she looked like, I was looking at you or something, right? Like literally.

• 3:53Danny Jones?

  Did you try talking to her?

• 3:54Speaker 03

  No, not at all. What happened was as soon as I looked up at her, down at her, rather, uh, she shimmyed her body, body all the way up to the wall itself. And then I left and I was like, I'm out. You know, so it was very strange.

• 4:08Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was very strange.

• 4:10Danny Jones?

  Was there any other inner, other type of things that you saw in that house?

• 4:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. So that's when I realized, like, once I got in that home and settled down in the middle of the night, I would hear something displacing its weight in the living room. We had wooden floors.

• 4:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:24Speaker 03

  And so you can imagine like a full grown man with boots on, just displacing its weight. And then would walk into my room and then I could just feel this malevolence. Manifesting and so it evolved. So I never saw the archetype or manifestation of a little girl anymore. Now it was the like a black cloud that would hover in the corner of the room sometimes. So what's fascinating about that is as I'm going through that and constantly feeling watched, I mean, it would follow me when I would go to like sleepovers and play Goldeneye and stuff, you know, because I'm a nineties kid, hang out my buds and yeah, you could hear the same manifestations and weird stuff. Point being is at the same

• 5:06Speaker 03

  time, I'm going to my local church and really struggling because I'm going to like Sunday school teachers and youth pastors and trying to ask them like, okay, like what's going on with me at the house? Because whatever I'm dealing with, does it sound anything like what you're telling me it is? It wasn't like horns and hooves. It was more like an energy field or a parasitic presence that would project terror into me. And then the more fearful I became of it, the weaker I became. And so that's why my colleagues and I in the field believe that at least some of these entities are parasitic and they just feed. It's very strange.

• 5:51Danny Jones?

  So how did you become more educated in this over the time? And like what, you know, there's a, there's a huge gap in understanding or like there's lots of misconceptions of what demons are, you know, whether you're looking at it from a Christian or a Catholic context, or looking at it from like a strictly psychological context. Um, you know, the idea of demons exists in multiple domains from, from art to psych- psychology, religion, whatever, you name it. Um, what is your like high level view on like what demons are?

• 6:27Speaker 03

  So there are various traditions and the tradition I grew up hearing about was the Nephilim lore, right? So it's a disembodied spirit of Genesis six where an angel copulates with a woman and they create this half-human, half-angel entity. And then when that body dies, the consciousness exists in a post-biological state. So that was some of the church fathers' theology where they believed these were demons, their disembodied consciousness. What I have come to learn is that I do not subscribe to the Catholic version of demons at all. If you go into various traditions all around the world, you'll see that a lot of these

• 7:10Speaker 03

  beings have their own belief systems. They have their own language preferences. Not only that, but there's a significant issue with the way they procreate. If it is in fact a disembodied entity, how can it inseminate a woman with a fetus? It's a biological being. Not only that, but if you go into incubi literature, which for those who don't know, because I didn't either, you're dealing with an entity that would copulate with a woman, but then would leave secretions and sigils as if it was a practitioner. And so, early on in demonology, there was this argument, especially with the Church Fathers, where it was like, okay, number one, we got a significant issue here, because

• 7:52Speaker 03

  if they are just disembodied spirits of Nephilim, how can they procreate? And in addition to that, why are they leaving sigils? I mean, that's like chaos magic, by the way, where you're combining sigils with secretions. What's a sigil? A sigil is essentially, there's two traditions there. A sigil is essentially the symbolic signature of an entity. So let's say if I was a demon and I visited somebody and I would carve my sigil into them, that's me almost like branding them. Got it. Now, Peter J. Carroll and another occultist named Austin Osman Spare used sigils differently as practitioners, where they would, they would write it down on a piece of paper, mentally project it

• 8:36Speaker 03

  into their own mind, memorize it, and project intention into it, and then forget about it, and hopefully that that sigil will create an intended outcome. The question though, and this is something I've wrested with within my own research, because there's no real model that explains that, is, number one, what would combine sigils with secretions with an intention of procreation? The only explanation I found is that it would be the Red Right from Peter J. Carroll's research, where you have a practitioner who is trying to replicate his own consciousness, and the only way to do that is to combine sigils and secretions, and then possess the fetus that will be in the woman.

• 9:19Speaker 03

  Now, that is called the Red Right. That was, that first originated by an anthropologist called James Fraser.

• 9:27Speaker 03

  And the idea in antiquity was that a mortally wounded soldier would dispossess his own body and possess someone else, so that his body dies, but his post-biological consciousness still exists. So, within both of those substrates, I believe we're dealing with something that is self-replicating itself. It's self-replicating. So, that's a lot.

• 9:50Danny Jones?

  What, what is the incubi?

• 9:52Speaker 03

  That is an entity explicitly that appears to a woman in the image of a man.

• 10:00Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 10:01Speaker 03

  And I've had cases like that all the way from, from here to India, where an entity will be, it'll be a shadow figure to the left of the side of the vision. And then when the individual lays eyes on them, it's, it looks like the husband. And so there's a, a unique pathology that, that I can get into here, but that's essentially what it is. An entity that, that appears to a woman in the image of a husband. So, I've had cases where it's deceased boyfriends, deceased husbands. I've had cases where the individual's put in like a dream state. Then very bad things, very dark things happen. And then when that entity lets go of the consciousness of that person, that's when they realize my husband's been next to me

• 10:46Speaker 03

  asleep the whole time. So, that's what my research is centered around is understanding what I call these interface events. When, when we as a species come in contact with these beings, what happens? Why does it happen that way? And more or less, I'm looking for the pathology. People like will say, okay, Nathaniel, you believe there are horns and hoves? Not really. I believe there's something deeper and darker going on here.

• 11:11Danny Jones?

  Where does the idea of horns and hooves and the sulfur smell and this whole, this whole narrative that is wowing throughout the Bible and biblical literature, where does that come from?

• 11:23Speaker 03

  So, one of them is a description of hell where allegedly these beings come from and it's sulfur. So, they smell like their local environment. That's one explanation.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  The idea, though, that that they smell like sulfur, I believe it's ozone. I believe they're affecting the local environment. And that's and so some of the research my colleague Steve Maranai are doing now is looking at the scientific aspect of it. Because it's possible that what's happened in antiquity with our ancestors is they're doing their best to explain this.

• 11:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Right. They don't have the scientific method. The best they could do is give us some kind of actionable data, descriptions. But the deeper I get into this, the more I realize that there is some kind of technology present. And then it's not either or, it's not spiritism or technology. Whatever we're dealing with seems to have combined both of them.

• 12:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  Which is the Jack Parsons model.

• 12:17Danny Jones?

  This is the the crossover between paranormal and like the UFO phenomenon.

• 12:24Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that's where the research needs to be. Because I think that what's happened here lately is that we're starting to realize that the old answers, they're not actionable anymore, they don't work. And so if anything, this is my goal as a researcher, is I might not have all of the right answers. Maybe I have the right questions, or a more correct question to ask. And so that's why my model evolved it, and not just believing in spirits, but believing in some kind of merging of matter and memory. Where it's almost like technomancy in a sense. And that's where I think we are with the question. It's not just, okay, it's ufology or hauntology. Right?

• 13:07Speaker 03

  We're no longer looking at those fields as if they're separate fields of research. Even James Lekatsky in his book Future Visions came out and said, when I started looking at ufology and interviewing these witnesses, I realized very, very early on that we weren't dealing with strictly ufology, we're dealing with hauntings as well. And that a lot of these witnesses of UAPs were going home to what I grew up with, believe it or not. Disembodied voices, shadow figures, hauntings. And so what I'm realizing now is that, yeah, we've compartmentalized this intelligence, when it seems to be according to the data, not the dogma, but the data, that we're dealing with a singular intelligence that's operating underneath the paranormal umbrella.

• 13:52Speaker 03

  Not either or, not UFOs or ghosts. It's something larger and much more in tune with each other.

• 14:01Danny Jones?

  Now that makes me immediately think of that, I'm sure you've talked about this before, the Varginha, Brazil case where the women, the two girls, the schoolgirls were walking home and they saw this creature that looked like a demon, smelled like sulfur, had red eyes, had the little horns and it had cloven feet. And when I had Diana Pasolka in here, she says, she's like, that's the description of a demon from the Bible. She's like smelled like sulfur, had the cloven feet, had the red eyes. And it also, it ended up killing that guy Marco Chirisi, who was one of the cops that grabbed him and threw him in the back of a cop car. I don't know what kind of a psycho would do that, but he did that.

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  And kept it like held it in the back of the cop car when they took it to the hospital. And then some of the people that worked at the hospital that it was brought to in Brazil said the hospital smelled like sulfur for weeks afterwards. What do you, what is your take on all that stuff?

• 14:59Speaker 03

  So this gets back to your earlier question. That's Pan.

• 15:04Danny Jones?

  Pan?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Pan, yeah. So he was-

• 15:06Danny Jones?

  The god Pan?

• 15:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's where the horns and hooves legend came from.

• 15:10Danny Jones?

  Pull up, pull up Pan. Let's get some imagery.

• 15:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So that's, again, that's where the legend came from, that these are all horns and hooves, but that was a later tradition.

• 15:18Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 15:19Speaker 03

  The earliest tradition is we're dealing with disembodied consciousness. So here you're looking at a deity.

• 15:25Danny Jones?

  There you go. Had and cloven feet.

• 15:27Speaker 03

  So that's where that legend originated.

• 15:31Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 15:31Speaker 03

  Now here's the question. How many times has that image been witnessed in demonology? The cases are very scant. Even within Catholic exorcisms and manifestations, what in many cases we're witnessing is some kind of translucent being that has its own energy field. And yeah, so this is where we have to separate the data from the dogma.

• 15:54Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  And I had to do that early on because I went into my, my investigations like gung ho, right? I have a good handle on this thing. I know what I'm going to experience and absolutely not. And so a lot of these things that are being classified as demons are evidently appear to be something entirely different. Not that they don't exist, it's just they were demonized throughout history and people just kind of bought into that idea. But that's pan. And so where I come in as a researcher, I say, okay, but how many times has that been witnessed?

• 16:24Danny Jones?

  When you say that's pan, what you're saying is the idea of the hooves and the the image of pan, that's where we get the idea of like the devil with the tail and the feet.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 16:34Danny Jones?

  I'm not in my twenties anymore. And although you can do tons of work to improve your diet and your workout routines, when you start to get into your mid to late thirties, you tend to notice a drop in energy and motivation. And you also should not be relying on stimulants, drugs, or unnatural additives. I want my body to be working the way it's supposed to, which is what led me to Mars Men. A lot of guys notice changes as testosterone drops with age, less energy, slower recovery, and a harder time staying in shape. Mars Men is a natural supplement designed to support healthy testosterone levels, weight management, and exercise performance with ingredients like tongkat ali, shilajit, zinc, boron, and more. What I have noticed is steadier energy, better focus, and faster recovery after workouts. It's not like a caffeine spike, it's just a constant drive throughout

• 17:19Danny Jones?

  the day. And I love that it keeps things natural. Mars Men is made in the USA, third-party tested, and it comes with a 90-day money-back guarantee. For a limited time, our listeners get 50% off for life, plus free shipping, and three free gifts at mengotomars.com. That's spelled M-E-N-G-O-T-O-M-A-R-S dot com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. After you purchase, they will ask where you heard about them, and please support the show and tell them we sent you. So do you think that what, whatever that being was that all those people witnessed in Virginia, Brazil, was the same thing people were witnessing in antiquity?

• 17:58Speaker 03

  I think so. Now, I'm very fascinated by that case study. Steve and I had Ronnie Verner on our show a while ago, awesome researcher, really cool guy. The curious thing, though, and this is another misnomer in the field, is that if you conjure something... Which is what they, what, you know, there are some researchers believe they did, and I believe they did, uh, that it's just gonna be some kind of, again, translucent being. But if you look at Ronnie's research, this is fascinating, is that Zay Gomez had created like a cavern in the earth to perform his rituals. And when, when, when Ronnie Renee went there and investigated, he's talking to the locals and they said, okay, there's two things that happened. Number one, we had an entirely different interpretation of what occurred until ufologists came.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  And then everything that we told them was kind of shifted into, okay, they're more along the lines of extraterrestrials. Okay. Now, according to what I've been told is that Zay Gomez performed his rituals and then from out of the earth, which is where he was performing his rituals, right, and he carved, uh, like a, a little laboratory in the earth, out of the earth emerged a cloud, a mist, which is something that we see often in ritual magic. And from that emerged physical beings. So there is this kind of materialist argument, are all conjured entities non-physical? That may not be true at all. And I think that's a fascinating data point.

• 19:24Danny Jones?

  If they're non-physical, where are they? Where are they when we're not, when we're not looking at them?

• 19:29Speaker 03

  So I am more along the lines of the ultra-terrestrial model. Okay. So I do not believe we're dealing with extraterrestrials. The evidence I've collected, it leads me to believe that we're dealing with something that's here.

• 19:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Right here. And that at times-

• 19:45Danny Jones?

  It's because they look like they evolved here, right?

• 19:47Speaker 03

  Pretty much, yeah.

• 19:48Danny Jones?

  Like bipedal, eyes in front of the heads, they breathe this air and-

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's, it's, and this is one of the more difficult nuances in the research. It's like they're present with but absent from. So there's a late researcher named Paul Eno, a very fascinating guy, but, um, he had this idea of the phenomenon where you would have basically two circles and they would both be evolving. And then at times they would touch. And in that moment, you have a substrate or a meeting to where these entities could climb into our reality because we share that space with them for that fleeting moment.

• 20:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  This gets back into Jacques Vallée's case studies where he had one instance, this is fascinating, where a UAP comes crashing through a tree line.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  And yet, none of the branches were disturbed. They're witnessing it, but it's going through the branches and then it lands into a, on a patch of grass, which is disturbed. You could see like there's, there's landing gear, there's imprints, there's, there's disturbance in the grass pattern.

• 20:52Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 20:53Speaker 03

  And so the idea that I'm leaning on here is that we, we share certain parts of reality with them. And those parts of reality that we share are where there is disturbance, where you have physical evidence. But that would also explain why that tree line was not disturbed itself. Why? Cause it doesn't exist for them.

• 21:13Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 21:15Speaker 03

  And so we do share certain spaces. Now, the point of conjuring would be to create a space for them to inhabit, to where it actually cuts through both of them, to where literally I have created a sacred space for you that we will share. It's not, it's not designed, it's evolved together until we merge. I'm creating a moment of merging to where you can incarnate in this dimension.

• 21:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 21:37Speaker 03

  So, that's one of the ideas is that it doesn't exist for them. Now we get into Betty Lucas case study, she's an abductee where the same phenomenon occurred, where she's just in her, in her kitchen with her family and these beings walked right through the door. Didn't open it, walked right through. And yet, when she handed them an object, they could hold it. So, that aspect of us sharing certain spaces with them, it also occurs in hauntings. I've seen, I, I, in my archive, I have videos of like a shadow figure who will walk through a hallway, open up the door of a room, walk through the closet completely.

• 22:17Speaker 03

  So there, again, it points to this, this sharing of reality, and I think that some people would confuse that with interdimensionality, right? Well, that's just interdimensional, to a degree, but it seems like some things exist in our reality for them and we share that space and some things just simply do not. And, and that's where I'm at.

• 22:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, you know, we could have a completely different map of reality than whatever these things are, you know, like, we could look at the world and the universe and physics a completely different way, like, the way we fit stuff into our minds and compartmentalize stuff and process and rationalize stuff could be just completely alien, like, no pun intended, to whatever some other entity that we're not aware of that could be on some higher plane of existence to us, does. So, we just may not have the, we may not, we may not have the right words or the right language to be able to explain what this stuff is.

• 23:15Speaker 03

  Exactly, and for the longest time, we were trapped.

• 23:18Danny Jones?

  Even using the word interdimensional, that may be a one dimensional way of explaining what this actually is, you know?

• 23:24Speaker 03

  And when that is codified, right, where people say, well, if you don't use the term interdimensional, well, you're wrong. It's like, no, we, literally, I mean, I, we don't really know what's going on here. We, all we have throughout history are witnesses that are using their own terminology and vernacular to describe something that could be ineffable. We don't have the terms. And in many ways, that's what I've been trying to do in my own research, is I've kept, I'm running into things where I don't have the vocabulary to articulate what they are, even with the incubus, that, I mean, okay, we go to Father Sinestro of Amino, he's encountering these demons and their entities, and the church is like, investigating what they are, and they were trying to charge these women, this

• 24:08Speaker 03

  is, this is demonic, by the way, right? Charged them for some kind of sin, and they're like, well, okay, was it a beast? Because they're looking, right? If it is, it's bestiality. And she's like, I have no idea what it was. We have no idea what it was. So, what we're looking at, though, is seems to be like, intelligences that transcend every known model of the phenomenon. And so, the best move I've been able to do along with Steve Mara is where we've kind of realized that we've compartmentalized this thing, over and over and over again, to where we have our own little boxes, our own fields of research, our own cliques. And yet, the phenomenon doesn't play by those rules.

• 24:46Danny Jones?

  What have you noticed, or with all the people that you've talked to, and all of the stuff that you've read and learned, have you noticed or seen a pattern in the specific type of people that experience this stuff, whether it be paranormal or UFO stuff?

• 25:06Speaker 03

  I, there is a pattern. Usually it comes to people when they're really young. So when it showed up in my life, I was eight years old. My buddy Paul St. Clair, same thing. Same thing with Steve Mira. And we don't know why.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Now, there is a theory, and this is, again, we're dealing with an entirely different subject, but it's like that they wanted us to be in the field as researchers. So one faction is like dark, I guess, simplified. The other one's light, and they initiated us in the field somehow. That's, it's a ridiculous notion, by the way. I don't buy it.

• 25:38Danny Jones?

  They initiated you into the field when you were young?

• 25:41Speaker 03

  Yes. They wanted us, something wanted us to notice the black cat and the matrix and to investigate it. That's one explanation.

• 25:53Danny Jones?

  The black cat and the matrix. What do you mean by that?

• 25:56Speaker 03

  So my perspective with the paranormal is that we only know about it because it seems to be a glitch. When I was a kid, that, that black cloud in my room should not have existed.

• 26:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  And yet it did. It's a lot like Neo being initiated by virtue of them saying, hey, you notice that there's another black cat? It doesn't fit. It should not fit. And so then Neo's like, well, what? Yeah. So what is that exactly? So that's one theory. Now, here's some more of the malevolent aspects of the phenomenon that people are being taken from a young age and experimented on by entities. And I've had cases where it'll be a 55-year-old woman, and she's still being taken, and we're doing an investigation, and she, maybe gonna take her at eight years old.

• 26:52Speaker 03

  Yeah. So the question, I guess the jury's still on what's actually going on there and why. But in terms of researchers, that's one theory I lean into, is that there's someone or something that wants us to research this phenomenon. Wants us to understand. And perhaps it is an intelligence that's wanting us to understand reality at a deeper level. I don't know.

• 27:13Danny Jones?

  Or is it something just inherent in kids, in young kids, that don't have a fully?

• 27:21Danny Jones?

  Like rigidized framework of reality yet, you know, like they haven't been fully indoctrinated into the modern world. They're still more open.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 27:30Danny Jones?

  And they're, they're, they may even have like a deeper, deeper senses, like their, their, their sensory abilities haven't, they aren't rigid yet, you know, they, they have, like, there's some people that have speculated, or I think that, yeah, there's obviously no proof of it, but like, people speculate that, you know, when you're young, that you, you may have even more of a intuitive way of communicating or getting knowledge or understanding, because you don't have the ability to really speak yet, you know, when you don't have the

• 28:08Danny Jones?

  language yet, you rely on other sorts of cues. And, you know, you could discern that as being some sort of an intuition or something like that.

• 28:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 28:20Danny Jones?

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• 29:04Danny Jones?

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• 29:29Speaker 03

  It's very possible. One thing I could tell you, though, and this gets back into my research, is that... The phenomenon is highly deceptive. Yeah. Highly deceptive. And it evolves according to our awareness of it. And it evolves in order to evade. So, one of my earliest cases of abduction included an adult woman who, this is one of those individuals that was taken first when she was a young girl. Just to show everybody how deceptive the phenomenon is, when they begin to take her, they would just show up in a room at nighttime as her favorite cartoon characters. That was the interface it chose to interact with her. So, she's eight years old, eight or nine years old. And she's like, you know Nathaniel, I didn't understand, like, why is my favorite cartoon

• 30:14Speaker 03

  character taking me out of my room at night? Wow. It's really wild stuff. And so, the fascinating part about this is now we're getting into the learning matrix in my field where later on, she said she wasn't abducted for like two or three years, but that was when she got puberty. She shot up in height, you know, she stopped watching cartoons, she got into literature, you know, she matured. And she's like, and then one night, she feels this intelligent electricity manifesting in her room and she's all walled up. She's like, they're here, what do I do? And then here comes that little short cartoon character. Now, here's what's fascinating is she's like, now I'm like a foot taller than them. And I'm realizing, there's, this is stupid.

• 30:57Speaker 03

  There's no way you're a cartoon character. Now, here's something that's demonstrative of the pathology. Is that when that took place, that enid, its eyes got big, looked right into her eyes. And she said, Nathaniel, the only way I can explain this is that it was measuring my belief in its mask. Do you believe I am who I am appearing to you as? And what this is very, now we're getting into the real deep stuff here, buddy. And that's when she realized like, um, there's something beyond just an entity here. Because what it was doing was measuring how much, okay, is it 60%?

• 31:41Speaker 03

  I could work with that a little bit. Or is it 10? Because if it's 10, what it does, and then is now I gotta manifest as something else to you. You don't believe in the image. And so there is this learning matrix that the interface pulls from. And we've seen that, I mean, even with, uh, Ted Rice's case where his grandmother and him were abducted. And one of the entities appeared as the grandfather. The problem is that his grandfather had been dead for a long time. And so what I'm realizing in the field is that what we are seeing may be the least reliable way to interpret the phenomenon.

• 32:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Because again, well, that's Pan. Well, that's just a demon. Well, hold on a minute. Now we have to retroactively track where that originated. You know? So my point is what this phenomenon does is it hijacks consciousness in such a way that when we're experiencing it, we're being experienced by it and it's mapping us out. Can I go into this for a second?

• 32:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:45Speaker 03

  All right. So when you get into even the Skywatcher,

• 32:51Speaker 03

  they made a statement that really caught my ear and they said that we're having a hard time understanding what we're observing when we're observing it.

• 33:03Speaker 03

  Now, that comes from this concept within parapsychology. One of the, one of these case studies originated with Lloyd Orbach, where they were in a haunted house and they kept seeing a recurring apparition floating on by. It was a lady in white. And so they had multiple witnesses in the, in that, that house that saw it. This is, his investigative team saw it. And they said, well, the best thing we can do to capture data is we're gonna put a camera on it. And so what happened, it changed my, my life, or at least my research entirely. Cause I'm like, I'm like, oh my God, this is a game changer. So they, with their eyes, they're perceiving an apparition.

• 33:49Danny Jones?

  Multiple people.

• 33:50Speaker 03

  Multiple people, but on camera, it was just a ball of light.

• 33:56Speaker 03

  So what they concluded is that this ball of light, what we're calling plasmoids in the field.

• 34:02Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 34:03Speaker 03

  This was in the, uh, in the nineties, I believe.

• 34:05Danny Jones?

  Nineties?

• 34:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:06Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 34:06Speaker 03

  Lloyd Arboc, the researcher, for people that wanna go look it up.

• 34:08Danny Jones?

  Lloyd Arboc?

• 34:09Speaker 03

  Absolutely. He's a parapsychologist. Point being though, is they saw an apparition with their eyes, and she's floating on by, but what they captured on camera was completely inconsistent with what they rendered by looking at it. Point is, that not everything we're seeing is real. They may be a physiological construct, an apparition, produced by these balls of light. Now, another case study.

• 34:43Danny Jones?

  Now, what, real quick, what happened when they went back and watched the footage? Did they see the ball of light, or did they see the woman?

• 34:48Speaker 03

  They saw the ball of light.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  No apparition. Here's why. Because the camera cannot believe. There's no consciousness to hijack, Danny.

• 35:00Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  I'm getting real passionate now, man. We got into the real research, buddy. So, um, yes, there's no consciousness to hijack with the camera. There's no archetype. You mean, again, so my point though, is even with like, um, Dr. Barry Taft's case study of San Pedro haunting, same phenomenon, where they're cornering this, this corpuscular ball of light. Not small balls of light, but like basketball sized. They have photographs of this. They're self-illuminating. They're on the ceiling or near the ceiling, they're near the ground. And they, they finally cornered one of these things in a room. He's got his research team with him, and they're just looking and observing this orb.

• 35:45Speaker 03

  And out of nowhere, the orb projects half of an apparition of a man. And it's animated. And it's looking at them, eye to eye, and observing the room. When that happened, his research team fainted, and he said, "I could hear them hit the ground."

• 36:04Speaker 03

  So what we're dealing-

• 36:04Danny Jones?

  Who was the man?

• 36:05Speaker 03

  Uh, what they didn't know.

• 36:06Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 36:07Speaker 03

  Just some, you know, projection.

• 36:09Danny Jones?

  L. Ron Hubbard.

• 36:10Speaker 03

  Probably was, buddy. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, that would have freaked me out.

• 36:16Speaker 03

  So my point, though, is this is part of what I call the diversification method of the phenomenon. Now, here's the problem. In history, we lack the scientific method to capture the pre-manifestation. Right? We never, okay, all we saw were apparitions. We did not know that they were being projected by an orb. Until we got a camera on it. And so here's the problem, and I've said this in other, other lectures, where if all we knew throughout history was the physiological construct of the phenomenon, it created it.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Then we have mythologized its mask. And we may have never really, truly seen, again, that orb that was present. Now, that same phenomenon is occurring in the CE5 movement.

• 37:10Danny Jones?

  Where they see the orbs and then they manifest as different shit?

• 37:13Speaker 03

  Yes, just recently at a conference, Cockpit in the Desert. There was a group of CE5 practitioners. They performed-

• 37:19Danny Jones?

  CE5 is Stephen Greer's deal.

• 37:21Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 37:21Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 37:22Speaker 03

  And what's so fascinating about this, and I kind of said on this for a while, because I knew it was happening, at least, or I thought I knew, right?

• 37:27Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 37:28Speaker 03

  Where they're observing these, these orbs.

• 37:33Speaker 03

  And, and, and out of nowhere, you see faces and you see forms emerging from them. And then people left, doing what we've done in the field, right, for the last hundred years, was saying, "Oh, my goodness, look at the form. It's producing their alien beings." When really, it was these, these balls of light, these plasmoids, diversifying themselves, creating and projecting a physiological construct. That if we, right, if all we had were the apparitions, we wouldn't really have, you know, the orb. We didn't have the orb until we actually put a camera on it.

• 38:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:10Speaker 03

  So we have mythologized, uh, the mask. But, and I think that's really, it's a dangerous point when we sit there and say, "Okay," and this is fascinating, too.

• 38:20Danny Jones?

  Did you say we mythologized the mask?

• 38:22Speaker 03

  Yes. We go around saying, oh my God, think about the implications. Well, I saw an apparition of my dear Aunt Edna.

• 38:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  It's not her. It could be something different. Now, let's go back to the San Pedro haunting. This is a very, very profound point here. This really did change my game, at least my research, was that there is no difference between these lights in haunted houses and these lights in the skies. Orbs. Altitude does not change their ability to project. So what are these orbs projecting in the sky is my question? That we have taken as actual craft, just like we've taken them as actual apparitions. Is it making sense?

• 39:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 39:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, there's no difference. It's just altitude.

• 39:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 39:16Speaker 03

  It's just altitude. That's where I'm at.

• 39:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the weird thing is when you get into like the nuts and bolts crashes, like the one in Virginia and obviously Roswell and the Tic Tac stuff that the pilots were seeing like. I think people are conflating all this stuff and because we don't understand it, we're trying to put it all in the same boat.

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. I think we are in, and I'm not, okay, I'm not saying I disagree with the nuts and bolts aspect.

• 39:42Danny Jones?

  I think the nuts and bolts stuff is probably ours.

• 39:45Speaker 03

  A lot of it is. Matter of fact, uh, my colleague Steve Mary is a lecturer in England. Years and years and years ago, when Jeff Renz had his website, like we're talking like probably oh six, oh five. And Steve had published a, a video that he took of something in England. It was like a balloon of some sort. And out of nowhere, a think tank here in the States published it as a form of disclosure, as a, an authentic UAP. And Steve had to email them and say, guys, you, we both know. I took the video. You're pushing it as some kind of extraterrestrial presence.

• 40:25Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 40:25Speaker 03

  So do I believe there's some kind of psyop present? I do. Not that, again, not that I discount the existence of nuts and bolts phenomenon, but let's go back to Richard Bandery.

• 40:36Speaker 03

  And I know people have their qualms with him. Richard Bandrick is now an aerospace CEO. But 40 years ago, he was contracted with our federal government to go out to gifting fields.

• 40:47Danny Jones?

  Gifting fields?

• 40:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:49Danny Jones?

  What's a gifting field?

• 40:50Speaker 03

  Where the phenomenon will gift our species technology, like nanotechnology metamaterials. So they would give him coordinates and he would go out with I don't know how many people. And they would collect metamaterials given to us, quote, given to us by these beings. The problem though, and it feels so fascinating, he said, you know, he goes, when we would, we'd find it. We, we confirm the location, we would get it in our hands and it would look like it's metal. His testimony is astounding, he said, but then within 10 to 15 seconds, it would almost dissolve into a dust. And you could blow it away in, in, in the wind. His conclusion though was startling.

• 41:33Speaker 03

  Cause somebody asked him like, what did you think about all this? He's like, we came to the conclusion that we were being manipulated by something that wanted to appear to be giving us technology, but it wasn't technology at all.

• 41:49Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  Right. So there are aspects of the research that need to be addressed. But I, I again, I don't wanna, I'm not gonna say I'm anti nuts and bolts.

• 41:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I think the craziest thing about all this stuff is like I said earlier, we have those, those stories. We have like the, the pilot tic tac stories. We have planes seeing things in the sky. We have orbs, we have ghosts, we have demons, we have whatever you wanna call it. And we're trying to put it all together, fit it all together into one puzzle. You know, it's like, well, what about this? This kinda like, doesn't make sense. Like, how do you, how do you reconcile that? How do you reconcile, you know, an orb, making yourself look like a woman?

• 42:30Speaker 03

  What is that?

• 42:31Danny Jones?

  And communicating with you telepathically with, you know, some fucking metal tic tac that's moving around and going under the water and that we allegedly have, and we allegedly also, and you know, we allegedly captured some of these beings and we have them in government custody. Like, what?

• 42:47Speaker 03

  I'm not sure. I'm really not sure about that. No, I'm not discounting these.

• 42:50Danny Jones?

  That's what the government's saying now, that we have seven different species of these things. And like. I mean, it's really comforting that James Clapper is the head of all of this. So we know it's, we know it's true.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  Really encouraging, really encouraging, right? I don't know about all that, honestly, I, because there are certain data points that are inconsistent with my research and the research of my colleague. Not that like we're experts and gods on this, you know, again, we're just researchers, but there are inconsistencies where it's just like, that's demonstrably untrue. The problem is, is that the compartmentalization has, has really bit our demise in some ways. So my point is, there are some instances where one field has a question, the other field has an answer for. So for instance, my colleague Steve Merron has had cases of apports. An aport, for those who didn't know, because I didn't know either, is essentially like this coffee mug, okay?

• 43:42Speaker 03

  Where let's say I would even purchase this coffee mug, but it would just show up in my house. And Steve's had cases like that, where the phenomenon will materialize objects into a local environment, and the family didn't buy it. And so they're like, okay, where did this come from? Even more than that, and this is where we get into the pathology, is where the phenomenon would take things from a home, so let's say I did buy the coffee mug, it would take that away, it would go missing for months, and then I would wake up one day and it's back. So Steve's had cases like that, where one family, they had a coffee mug that went missing, and they looked for it everywhere. Out of nowhere, it's back on the table, right?

• 44:26Speaker 03

  And so what Steve did is he realized that, I guess they purchased the coffee mug from like a Costco or something, it came in another box with other coffee mugs that were made from the same, same, same people, all that, same makeup. What they did is he tested the coffee mug that was replaced, that manifested, against the others. And he realized that there was a different isotopic ratio in the coffee mug that manifested than the other coffee mugs that it was allegedly purchased with. So the idea is, one theory was that the isotopic ratio, it's different, is the result of it dematerializing and then re-materializing. Another theory is that's not the original coffee mug.

• 45:09Speaker 03

  The phenomenon took the real one, replaced it with another one that looks like it. It's a simulant. So then what he and Barry Fitzgerald did is they had a-

• 45:18Danny Jones?

  These demons, everything better to do? Fuck with your coffee mug?

• 45:21Speaker 03

  I know, right? Yeah, it's kinda dumb. Now, so they realized that what was happening is that they would see these supports and they would take them out of the homes as an experiment. Like, okay, you didn't buy this? No, I don't even know where it came from. We're gonna move from the house. When they did, the paranormal activity would go down to almost nothing. And so the idea now is that a lot of these supports are quantum anchors where the phenomenon will attach itself to them, manifest them into this dimension. And now it's almost like a portal. And I hate the word portal, but that's what it appears to be.

• 45:54Danny Jones?

  So attach themselves to the people?

• 45:56Speaker 03

  Attach itself to the object that they manifested. Yeah.

• 45:59Danny Jones?

  Okay, I see.

• 46:00Speaker 03

  Quantum anchors. Now, he's had cases where one individual, her pet died and so she had it cremated, put it in a little smaller urn. That urn went missing. Couldn't find it.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  So then what happened is she went and got another urn, put the ashes in that urn, because she still had some left over. And then years later, she's remodeling the house and found the original urn inside of the wall. So what this appears to be again is that these beings, whatever they are, they can create objects in our dimension that do not belong here. They look the part.

• 46:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:35Speaker 03

  But they're that black cat in the matrix. Now, that's in parapsychology. But even in demonology, the Vatican has cases, Gabriel Amorath has these cases as well, where when these beings were being exercised from the demoniac, they will begin to regurgitate from the cavity of that person, objects they never ingested.

• 46:59Speaker 03

  Screws, coins, whatever is small enough. Yeah, so here's what's fascinating. The Vatican, and even Malachi Martin talks about this, where they will collect these objects. The problem is, and it's not more like a problem, it's more like a solution, is that the phenomenon is also attached to those apports as well. So what the Vatican does, what these Catholic exorcists do, is they will take those objects, place them in a sacred space, afar, far, far away from humans, because they know the phenomenon is attached to them. It's the same thing with the ports and haunology, where the phenomenon, when it doesn't want to be vacated, it will replicate something in a house, attach itself to that simulant,

• 47:43Speaker 03

  and the family will never know the difference. He had a case study of a husband and a wife that were in a verbal disagreement, and the husband looks down and he sees this figurine that's moving, just slowly moving. So he grabs it in a fit of rage, and he throws it out the front door, it shatters on the driveway. Husband walks back in, that figurine is right back on that table. He found a simulant. And so, what a lot, what it seems to be is happening, here's something crazy, what kind of a demon could do that? Right? That doesn't sound like a demon at all.

• 48:17Danny Jones?

  Was the shattered figurine still in the driveway?

• 48:19Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 48:20Danny Jones?

  And then, brand new one was inside?

• 48:21Speaker 03

  Inside. So what that appears to be, this is what, these are glitches in The Matrix, it's that black cat, where that should not be taking place, but it is, and then it manifests out of nowhere, which kind of implies that we exist in a construct of some sort, to where it's built on information, to where at any time of their choosing, they could just imprint something into this reality.

• 48:43Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. Speaking of the Vatican, wasn't there something that the Vatican came out with, that, where they said that, um, people were gonna be trying, they were warning that people were gonna be trying to paint religious, uh, portraits onto the UFO phenomenon, or something like that, or try to correlate it with religion, and they were like, trying to warn about that, or something?

• 49:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think you're talking about the, uh, because I think I read that too, where they were talking about apparitions and religious figures.

• 49:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, apparitions, yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  So, the reason they're doing that is because they're realizing that some of these entities will appear as religious figures. And when people try to say, okay, religion doesn't have a role to play in this, that's quite the opposite of the phenomenology. You know, we're talking about a lot of people who have met these entities that will take on the appearance of a religious figure. Dr. Carla Turner had plenty of those cases. Where it's those, it's, I hate to use the word archetype, but it's a predictable manifestation.

• 49:41Danny Jones?

  So Diana Pasolga wrote about this in, I think, her recent book, where she said that somebody was, had Michael the Archangel hovering over her or something.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Absolutely, absolutely. It's that interface. It's no more Michael the Archangel than it was Mickey Mouse. It's something different. And this idea, though, that it's present with us, but absent from what's present with us is the mask. I don't think we've actually ever truly seen its form, or maybe it doesn't even have a form.

• 50:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  You know, it could condescend itself into our reality to be perceived by us. There's a lot of theories regarding that, but there is an underlying deception present.

• 50:22Danny Jones?

  So what do you think's going on with these orbs? Cause that guy, Chris Bledsoe, sees them all the time and he films them and they don't always manifest in things, but like he goes outside and the orbs surround him.

• 50:31Danny Jones?

  So there's a. Have you seen that stuff?

• 50:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, it's fascinating.

• 50:33Danny Jones?

  It's crazy.

• 50:34Speaker 03

  It's really fascinating.

• 50:35Danny Jones?

  I mean, either that guy's the greatest magician of all time, or like there's something crazy going on there. And it seems to be tied to like, according to him, and if you're familiar with the story, like the guy's been through like insane tra- trauma his whole life, psychological and physical. So the people speculate that like, maybe there's a connection between people that have gone through tons of trauma and like it opening a portal in their consciousness to being able to summon or see this stuff.

• 50:58Speaker 03

  I think that is true, and sometimes the phenomenon causes the trauma that opens up that portal. I mean, that's what happened to me, man. I mean, I went through a lot as a young kid and then later on in life, I started having a lot of paranormal experiences, like precognition and stuff, you know, like I would see things in some kind of second sight and, and I think it does come from my experience as a kid. But getting back to Chris Bledsoe, I think he's genuinely a good dude. I really do. I just. I said this before, I don't trust the phenomenon at all, though, at all. And, and those of us, like you study the folklore and the phenomenon at large, like, like, almost like a cultural anthropologist, we go back in time when we say, okay, how many times has the white lady been, been witnessed?

• 51:41Danny Jones?

  Right, Hathor, right?

• 51:42Speaker 03

  Absolutely. So it's not limited to his experience respectfully, it's not. It's other people, and even Jim Simy Van said this, yeah, people in the intelligence community have witnessed this white lady. Now, here's something that's interesting. He said that what he witnessed and what they witnessed in the intelligence was completely different than what's being presented to us by people, you know, that are creating a narrative, where she's love and light, right? She's just there to, to raise our consciousness. No, she terrified them at first. Shadow figures.

• 52:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:16Speaker 03

  What are we doing? Shadow figures in the home terrorizing the kids? And this is what we're dealing with. Again, I thought we're just talking about UFOs.

• 52:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:25Speaker 03

  Or, or a white lady, you know, white lady. No, we're not. We're talking about something that, like, it's the hitchhiker effect, but it's a deeper, darker aspect of it.

• 52:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 03

  Where I'm gonna manifest in your home, I'm gonna give you false prophecies. And the problem I have with the field with, with this part, particular nuances, like, none of that's being presented to us. It's always strictly, well, she's here to raise our consciousness, it's the divine feminine. And, and what Simy Van said is something more along, along the lines of what we're seeing in the field is like, yeah, she's not all love and light.

• 52:57Danny Jones?

  That's what Semi Van said?

• 52:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that she terrorizes people, and she's being accompanied by shadow figures. And so with, with respect to the disclosure movement, I think that's an area that they're going towards. That's why Jay Stratten wrote his book. When Jay Stratten's book, it's, it's out now, but he's

• 53:15Danny Jones?

  He's the guy who advised Dan Farah on the Age of Disclosure movie.

• 53:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 53:18Danny Jones?

  And he tell, he basically pointed Dan Farah where to go, who to talk to.

• 53:21Speaker 03

  Right. So that's one aspect of disclosure that I agree with, because it's what I found to be true of my own research, is that there's a sting in this tale. And it's not just the hitchhiker effect. It's almost as if even some of the witnesses to UAPs, it's like, yeah. We tell the witnessing of the UAP story. Disclosure.

• 53:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  We don't talk about the shadow figures, the disembodied voices and the malevolent haunting that followed. And that's why Lakatsky's work to me is so important. I know people have their issues with him. It's whatever. I'm after data. I don't really care about, you know, who dislikes who. So the data is real and what he said was, guys, right? We're focusing on, okay, this witness saw that. We're not focusing on the fact that after we talked to them a little bit more, they came out with the fact that, yeah, it's not just UFOs. We're being haunted by something that's in our homes at nighttime, that's affecting our children.

• 54:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 54:21Speaker 03

  And that's why it's so important to say, okay, if we're going to include all of the data, let's include all of the data.

• 54:26Danny Jones?

  And that, that's the kind of shit that would make me go to church if that started happening to me. I would fucking start going to church every day.

• 54:33Speaker 03

  Disembodied voice. Direct voice phenomena, though, is, and that's what they're talking about, is some of the scariest manifestations. That, I mean, you're talking about, just picture this. It's at nighttime, right? And you're in bed and you wake up for no reason. This has happened. And in the middle of the night, a man's voice calls you by name and you don't know where it's coming from. It's just there. That's what they're dealing with. And so somewhere within these manifestations, I'm wondering if the UAP manifestation itself or witnessing itself is not really what's going on. It's a pair, it's, it's almost like a parasite where that's what you see initially. Something else is going to come home with you and that's the true phenomenon.

• 55:15Danny Jones?

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• 55:58Danny Jones?

  Moving money should be simple, but it should also be safe, and that's why I love Cash App. For a limited time, new Cash App customers can earn $10 if they use the code SECURE10 in their profile at signup and send $5 to a friend within the first 14 days. Terms apply. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners. Prepaid debit cards insured by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa debit flex cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and the Bancorp Bank, pursuant to license from Visa USA, Inc. See terms and conditions for Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit card. Discounts and promotions provided by Cash App, a Block Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Yeah, it is weird. I wonder, you know, if it's just something that people are predisposed to psychologically, if there's something about their consciousness.

• 56:41Danny Jones?

  You know, Peter Lavenda was in here explaining to me. Yeah. I was talking to him about this stuff and he was saying that if he was in charge of trying to figure out what this stuff was,

• 56:50Danny Jones?

  he would, and this is his quote, he said, he would take all the people who have experienced it and he would take apart the radio.

• 56:58Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 56:58Danny Jones?

  As far as like their consciousness and figure out what's going on inside these people's minds that's allowing this stuff to happen, like what's significant about them. And then, you know, there's also that, um, that other dude from California that, um, what's his name again? Gary Nolan.

• 57:13Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 57:13Danny Jones?

  Who says it has something to do with a basal ganglia and people that have, that experience this UFO stuff and experience paranormal activity, they have really dense neurons in their caudate and in their brain, which is very odd.

• 57:27Speaker 03

  That's fascinating. I love, yeah. One of Gary's cases is, it's absolutely channing, but he talks about this instance of a child in France where, and this is another part of my research, where sometimes the phenomenon seeks to be seen.

• 57:43Speaker 03

  If you could be visible, why would you want to be visible? Right? If you want to be invisible, why would you want to be seen by me? And so you have this case study of Gary Nolan's where you have this child and she's in the car with her mother and through the sunroof. She is seeing, again, seeing a craft. And so she begins to describe the dimensions of the craft, the collar, right? The shape. Here's another example of what we talked about earlier, right? The rendering aspect.

• 58:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 58:12Speaker 03

  Where out of nowhere, the mother's like, okay, I've got an iPhone. There's the camera. The camera cannot believe. There is no consciousness to a camera. So it can't hack the camera. So then she takes a photograph of it. And what was witnessed, and this is a key data point in the phenomenology, was witnessed by that child was completely different than what was captured on the camera.

• 58:33Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 58:34Speaker 03

  Completely different. Now, the theory that I'm working on again is that it's the phenomenon sought to be seen.

• 58:40Danny Jones?

  I think I remember this story. Didn't he explain what, didn't the girl explain what she saw out of the sunroof as like something that had like biological skin to it?

• 58:51Speaker 03

  Something like that, yeah. And then the photograph itself was like this metallic object that had like points to it. It's really cool. And that's where I kind of nestled in my research was like, it's possible again, that it's another, it's another mechanism where it diversifies itself. And right, which one are you going to go document? Which, right, okay, it's like the same thing in hauntings. Well, I'm going to go around and, and write books about the apparition. No, that's it. That's its rendering. That's what it wants you to see.

• 59:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:22Speaker 03

  There's something else there beyond, beyond the shadows that we're just starting to capture. And when you're dealing with an entity or intelligence, or even a craft that has the desire, not just the ability, the desire to compartmentalize itself. I want you to see this and this only. And meanwhile, something else is going on behind the scenes. That's what disturbs me because just like we could have been in hauntings and mythologized the mask of the apparition, we could have went around and had conferences about the wrong thing.

• 59:59Speaker 03

  Because, right. So that's where we're at in this. And it makes me think that a lot of times when people say, okay, I know what I saw. That's exactly right. And that's all we know.

• 1:00:09Danny Jones?

  So whatever these things are, when it, especially when it comes to the paranormal stuff inside people's homes, right, at night, is there any evidence at all that these things can touch you or take you or physically handle you or harm you?

• 1:00:30Speaker 03

  Absolutely. Hundred percent.

• 1:00:32Danny Jones?

  What, what sort of evidence do we have of that? Other than just testimony?

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  No, I have a photograph of a person that was being haunted malevolently. And there was a handprint. He got, he got beat up pretty badly, but he has a handprint in his back and it's the top hand of something. And my colleague ran a, a test on it using ultraviolet light. And they came to the conclusion that it was subdermal, under the skin. Take that and let's go into some of the scarifications we have. So this gets really dark, by the way, unfortunately. So I have a case study of mine. Years ago, I gave a lecture on skin anomalies on experiential kind of compared, compared and contrasted them like abductees to people that live in

• 1:01:21Speaker 03

  hauntings. And I got on the phone call with this individual whose father was a famous remote viewer, at least in his, in his town. So his father would do sessions. He would get information from his guides that he would go and get paid thousands of dollars by like politicians and.

• 1:01:38Danny Jones?

  This remote viewer dude?

• 1:01:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's perfect. Like a professional baseball player would say, okay, like, you know, should I, should I hold out on my contract?

• 1:01:45Danny Jones?

  Also, fun fact, all the remote viewers were fucking Scientologists. Do it that what you will.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, right. Side note, man, side note. Yeah. I'll tell you what's crazy. This guy was going in and out of his body and meeting these creatures. And he said, you know, it was going well for him for a while. And then one day he came back into his body and he had a coronary. He had a massive heart attack.

• 1:02:08Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:02:08Speaker 03

  And, and I have, it's wild. So the, the families there, the EMS is there, they're pulling his shirt off, they're working on him. And as they're looking at his body from underneath the skin to the surface were symbols. One of them was the star of David. One of them was a cross. The third one was an, an arching Egyptian hieroglyphic.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  They emerge from underneath the skin to the surface. And when I actually talked to the sun about this and I got a hold of this remote viewer's diary. This is crazy. He came to the conclusion that this was some kind of species of sorcerers. That had led him to believe they were his guides. And that some kind of ritual was performed upon him. And that's why he almost died. And that's an aspect of the field that's often it's very underrepresented is that. A lot of the physical evidence we have, even the level of hauntings is scarifications that begin subdermally.

• 1:03:06Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:03:07Speaker 03

  And we cannot explain that. So along with that, getting back to the the orbology in this. My dear friend, Michael Lynch, now he's dead, but he's a great researcher. He had a case. And this is getting into necronetics, my field where they're doing an investigation. And they kept seeing this orb floating in and out of a man's body. And out of nowhere, he's being picked up off his feet onto a wall. And he can't breathe and he's saying, Dr. Lynch, it's choking me. I can't breathe. I can't breathe. They couldn't see anything. Right? And then out of nowhere, they see this handprint around his neck.

• 1:03:47Speaker 03

  And they concluded that the handprint itself was an extension of the orb.

• 1:03:53Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Now, now we're getting into my research necronetics, which is projected consciousness.

• 1:04:00Danny Jones?

  Projected consciousness?

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:04:03Danny Jones?

  Did you coin that term necronetics?

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  Yes, I did. So in the 1970s, the USSR were performing parapsychological experiments.

• 1:04:11Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Well, and it's fascinating stuff, but one of their experiments. They took a blank piece of paper, placed it in an envelope and taped the envelope to a person's head, a psychic medium's head. They said, okay, we have a series of symbols. We want you. By virtue of projected consciousness and intention. We want you to put these symbols into this envelope, into this paper. Weirdest paper. It was it was declassified by the CIA in 2002. So it happened.

• 1:04:47Speaker 03

  This is crazy stuff. So then the next experiment they ran was they took that piece of paper, put it 20 feet away. Go through the same mechanism. We want you to project your intention. By the way, this is occult science. Project your intention and your consciousness out of your body. We want to test its ability, your ability, to change information into matter. So here's what happened. That that it's another one of those data points that changed my trajectory in my research. Is there was a difference, a contrast between the first and second experiments. The second experiment, they witnessed what's called a biofield manifest between the individual

• 1:05:31Speaker 03

  and the envelope.

• 1:05:33Danny Jones?

  What's a biofield?

• 1:05:34Speaker 03

  A biofield. Think about a translucent electromagnetic field, a cloud.

• 1:05:38Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 1:05:39Speaker 03

  That's visible to the naked eye and it's slowly moving. By the way, this gets back into orbs. Inside that cloud, they they were they were visibly, they were watching this as these balls of light begin to manifest with that cloud. And it moved across the room nestled down upon that envelope. Same end result. Here's the thing. One of Dr. Carla Turner's cases, and she's dead now unfortunately, but she worked on this case study and I've since worked on it with the families that she's gone. But in this particular abduction, if you will, the mother is sleeping on the couch.

• 1:06:20Speaker 03

  The son, who I personally know, and his father, they're watching television. Out of the corner of the room, they see, and they, we didn't have a reference for this, right? We didn't know this was kind of an experiment. They see this translucent cloud of energy begin to move, it's hovering through the room. It goes over there and it descends down upon the sleeping mother.

• 1:06:43Speaker 03

  Now, forty-five minutes later, she wakes up. She claims to have been abducted by a gray alien. But she was covered from head to toe with symbols.

• 1:06:55Danny Jones?

  With symbols?

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  Symbols, yes.

• 1:06:56Danny Jones?

  What kind of symbols?

• 1:06:58Speaker 03

  We're leaning on Theban. It's the best, that's the, that's the only symbol, the only symbols that we could find that look the same.

• 1:07:04Danny Jones?

  Theban?

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  Theban, yes. Again, we're dealing with sorcery.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:07:10Speaker 03

  It's, it's a medieval alphabet, by the way, employed by-

• 1:07:12Danny Jones?

  A medieval alphabet.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, my theory, one of my theories-

• 1:07:18Danny Jones?

  She had these things all over her.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Now-

• 1:07:23Danny Jones?

  Can you find, can you look up the origin of this stuff on, uh, click on that link, tell me what it says about it?

• 1:07:31Danny Jones?

  Theban alphabet, also known as the witches alphabet, is the writing system specifically a substitution cipher of the Latin script uh, that was used by early modern occultists and is popular in the Wicca movement. Okay. Sixteenth century.

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  The evidence suggests that some of what we're witnessing as orbs is projected consciousness.

• 1:08:00Danny Jones?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:08:02Speaker 03

  And that would also make sense as to why it become, can become anthropomorphic. It's a hand around the neck. Or even with Chris Bledsoe, he was being stalked by somebody that had, he said, what did he say? He said, "I was in the forest and I heard the footfall of a man walking behind me." And he turns around and it's just an orb. So, a lot of these orbs, I believe, to be projected consciousness. And I think the USSR and our federal government stumbled over that concept. Where you can project your consciousness into another environment. And that person will perceive your consciousness based upon how you intend them to.

• 1:08:44Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  Joe McMonigal. Right? Joe McMonigal, a remote viewer. Remote viewed himself into the jail cell of a terrorist.

• 1:08:57Speaker 03

  And what the terrorist observed as projected consciousness looked nothing like Joe McMonigal.

• 1:09:03Danny Jones?

  It was an orb.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, it was a translucent being that floated off the off the ground.

• 1:09:08Danny Jones?

  Holy fuck.

• 1:09:10Speaker 03

  So we're dealing with is it a yeah, now what we're dealing with here is a a technology of consciousness to where I could, you know, theoretically project my consciousness into your environment. Either by virtue of that biofield, right? I could literally perform a ritual on you. By virtue of my projected consciousness and I could tell you I'm a gray alien and you'll wake up thinking you're abducted, which is what this individual did, the mother. And the families there and they're like, Mom, you didn't leave. You stayed here the whole time. So what I believe, and this is my current position, is that a lot of what we're dealing

• 1:09:54Speaker 03

  with in the abduction phenomenon is the end result of projected consciousness of conjurers. And this is exactly what General McCasland led to in Pila Pila Venda, right? One of the theories being presented.

• 1:10:08Danny Jones?

  McCaslin was talking about this?

• 1:10:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, he, yeah, so, so he, okay, this is a whole breakdown. So he hopped out of the right pet Air Force Base.

• 1:10:15Danny Jones?

  For for people listening, McCaslin is one of the scientists or top generals that just went missing in the last couple of months.

• 1:10:19Speaker 03

  He was, yeah, he was one of the advisors to the whole secret machines series. By the way.

• 1:10:24Danny Jones?

  He was talking to Tom DeLonge.

• 1:10:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, so shout to Pila Venda, by the way, huge fan, huge fan.

• 1:10:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  But they were working with this concept, right? But their theory was that a ceremonial magician in another dimension. We're in the same framework here, by the way, right? A ceremonial magician in another dimension is projecting his conscious into this dimension and we're perceiving it as a UFO or a UAP.

• 1:10:51Speaker 03

  So within that intellectual framework, by the way, and this is gonna be, I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this, is that is Collins Elite territory.

• 1:11:02Danny Jones?

  Somebody, didn't somebody just tell us the other day that the Collins Elite was fake? Or like that was all messed made up? Somebody just told me that. I don't remember who.

• 1:11:09Speaker 03

  I'm not a big fan of a lot of their, of a lot of their work, at least the Collins Elite. But something that they hit on that was fascinating to me, and I want to provide some background to this. I grew up in that haunted house within the walking distance to Wright Pet Air Force Base, which is the hub where McCaslin was, was out of, and where the Collins Elite and the Stack Five is right there. Yes. This is gonna blow your mind. Now, that, my house, okay, so there's, there's airway, people are gonna watch this, they're gonna, they're gonna, yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna track. There's the airway road, there's Woodman, there's Joe's Pizzeria, then there's Wright Pet Air Force Base. I lived in a house over here. I have family members that worked at Wright Pet, one of them still does, okay?

• 1:11:54Speaker 03

  One of them told me as a kid that they witnessed a craft hovering above the Wright Pet Air Force Base. And I said, really? I was like, is this like a, you know, UFO, was it metallic? They said, no. It was a projection of something. And, and I said, well, how do you know that? They said, because we could actually see as it just kind of retracted back into the, what was it, a building at the Wright Pet Air Force Base. Anyways, she said, and my Aunt Angela, she said it looked like some kind of projection, not a real structured craft.

• 1:12:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:34Speaker 03

  Let's go to James Lakatsky's work. Okay? In his book, Future Visions, he talks about the difference between solid looking craft.

• 1:12:45Speaker 03

  And metallic objects. In other words, he's, he's implying that one can look solid, right? It's a physiological construct. Just like an apparition. But it's not a real craft.

• 1:13:00Danny Jones?

  This is the, um, uh, the foglets or whatever. You know what I'm talking about? Jesse Michaels dropped a video about this where they have these mountains. There's allegedly this guy who was, who went on, I forget his name. This guy who went on Jesse Michaels podcast, he said he worked for some like, uh, private, uh, military, military contractor, and they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And, um, he just wrote a book and he sent it to the Pentagon to get approved for public release to figure out. And this was a game he played specifically to see what they would redact because he labeled it as science fiction.

• 1:13:35Speaker 03

  Nice. Okay.

• 1:13:36Danny Jones?

  And basically part of the story is that they have these fake mountains in the desert in Mexico. That are made up of something called foglets where it's not a, it's not a hologram of a mountain because they can, it's, it's, they can program it to be a solid or to be like something that people can fly through. So they're saying they can, they can have it so where their helicopters can fly right through the fucking mountain, but a, a fighter jet who's chasing that helicopter will, will explode when it hits it.

• 1:14:08Speaker 03

  That's, I think that's what we're leading to.

• 1:14:10Danny Jones?

  And this is the same thing that a lot of people talk about with like these secret bases that are in New Mexico that where these, these helicopters can descend right underneath the ground, right into the ground or, or emerge out of a fucking portal in a lake or something.

• 1:14:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, it exists when they want it to. It's really what they're pointing to, right? Like, yeah, yeah, it doesn't exist for me and then it'll exist for you. So the physiological construct part about this, it falls right hand in hand with what we know in ontology. That orb can create something that looks real and it's not. And so it's a projection, it's a construct. So with the Collins lead again, so, so dealing with this idea that my aunt, working at Wright Pat, she said, okay, Nathaniel, I saw this craft in the sky, but it was a projection. That's what she believed. Well, the Collins lead again, and I take everything. They say with a grain of salt, by the way. But one of the data points that they had that really was fascinating to me was the idea that there were researchers in the federal government, hopped out of the Wright-Patt Air Force Base,

• 1:15:07Speaker 03

  who were collectively projecting their consciousness as physiological constructs. And other people, UAP witnesses, were seeing what they thought was a craft, when really it was constructed, projected consciousness.

• 1:15:24Speaker 03

  And I think that plays a role. It falls hand in hand with what I think I'm researching here. But I think that more than anything else, that this is, I think our government's classified consciousness.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  I think they know a lot more about that than we do. And that a lot of what we're seeing is it's some kind of projection. Not all of it.

• 1:15:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna, you know.

• 1:15:49Danny Jones?

  Do you believe these stories that these people are talking about of kidnapping people out of like the desert, like forests or jungles of Indonesia? And then rendering them to the United States and using them to summon these UFOs and stuff? Like feeding them specific diets? And something to do with the fact that these people aren't attuned to modern civilization or technology or anything like that? That they have some sort of a sensory opening to be able to conjure this this stuff? And they're using this and like?

• 1:16:25Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know. I I have heard of cases where children are being used. And it's really dark stuff. But I I do believe that's some, I think that is happening to a to a degree. And what's so fascinating about like the Epstein files is when they were talking about this concept that, yeah, like you would have like these like migrant groups of people that are, you know, migrating or something like that. They're trying to get to the United States and like 10 of their kids go missing and they can't figure out where they're at. It's Polite's work, right? It's it's missing 411. So I don't really know. I I don't, I don't know what's going on there, but I can, I can attest to, yes, that children have been used to conjure these beings.

• 1:17:07Speaker 03

  That's some of like the darker stuff. Like I remember talking to Ronnie Rene about. Orbs and stuff and he was telling us about how that bloodletting in Brazil. Like people would actually cut themselves and the more blood they let, the more manifestation of these balls of light would manifest.

• 1:17:24Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:17:25Speaker 03

  So I think that has a little bit to do with it, but it's, it's really dark stuff.

• 1:17:30Danny Jones?

  All right, I gotta pee, we'll be right back. What I wanted to ask you earlier was, are you aware of that, there was a story that Diana Pasulka told me on, she wanted to say it in her book, where she was meeting with Jacques Vallée, he told her to read the devil book.

• 1:17:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:17:44Danny Jones?

  The book about the devil, like these people are obsessed with like, people like Jacques Vallée and Heineck, they were like all obsessed with like angels and demons and all this stuff. And I've read the devil book and there's like, no, I don't understand what the hell he was talking about there. There's not, maybe this, this guy comes from this background, maybe he was raised in this sort of like Catholic sort of world, I don't know.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  It might be, it might be. I, I recently watched an interview he did, Vallée, where he was actually more sympathetic to demonology than I could ever even imagine.

• 1:18:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Speaker 03

  He was like, you know, he goes, he goes, he's not, he's like, I'm not a Christian, but he goes, I, I sympathize with that position and I can understand why that, you know, people would believe they're demonic. But I mean, look at the archetype, right? Okay, it's horns and hooves. It's like, how much of this is the phenomenon playing on our belief system? You believe I am this, that's how I'm going to appear to you as.

• 1:18:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36Speaker 03

  Right? So it would be along the lines of that what we see may not be real, it may be just what we're most likely to believe in. And that's very Keely and by the way, it's very John Keel, but it would make sense as to why we have cases of like where you have the phenomenon wearing a mask, not just that UFO, by the way, you know, like actual entities appearing as something and then you think you're, the problem is that we're having is that we apply rules to that interface.

• 1:19:05Speaker 03

  Right, to that mask, like, okay, if it's deer in Edna, you're not gonna hurt me, you're not gonna do anything. If you're a cartoon, I'm gonna definitely trust you, cuz you're very innocent, I can trust you. And it's like, no, the phenomenon will wear that, get you into a compromising position, and that mask comes off, and you realize for the first time, just like the remote viewer, you weren't my guide at all. You were something different, and now you start to see, it's just, it's the Hitchhiker effect.

• 1:19:28Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:29Speaker 03

  There's something else going on.

• 1:19:30Danny Jones?

  So, do you believe that, like, there's actual, like, what you were saying about, was it Joe McMonigal projecting his consciousness into a cell of a terrorist? And the terrorist saw something in his cell?

• 1:19:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it was him and Louis Lortzondo, I believe, yeah.

• 1:19:47Danny Jones?

  That's frickin' crazy. Do you think that this is happening a lot with, like, different government programs? Where they're actually doing this, like, maybe these orbs Chris Bledsoe is seeing, this is something like the government could possibly be doing?

• 1:19:59Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Yeah, 100%, absolutely. And, so, I think that that is the case, that our government knows what they're doing. And that even with McMonigal, that's not a one-off case, that, okay, we have cases, I have a case study, it's from Claude Lacudo's book, where, again, we're in the 16th century, I believe, where a sorcerer's projecting his consciousness as an alter ego. And whatever he's projecting is being perceived by someone in that environment as, yeah, in this case, it was literally something that didn't look like him at all, but he was experiencing whatever that alter ego was experiencing.

• 1:20:43Speaker 03

  So, again, I would hate to beat that horse here, but it does sound like our government discovered, I wanna say occult science, but it's like they discovered an aspect of consciousness that they're classifying.

• 1:20:56Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:57Speaker 03

  But that, cases like that are all throughout history. And what's so fascinating, when I, cuz I have that background, again, in that folklore and that, that research, when I heard, and at least I read, that occurring, it blew my mind, cuz I'm like, well, if you could render yourself at another location as an angel by projected consciousness, what else can you render yourself as? Right. It's a whole nother, it's a whole nother field.

• 1:21:26Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 1:21:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like one of the things that just blows my mind about Bledsoe's story is how all these CIA people are like gravitating towards him and all these government officials and massive people like surrounding them, like befriending him and even that spooky Tim Taylor dude like befriending him and telling him all this insane stuff and like giving him the briefcase, holding the medals and like having this like, that seems like some sort of like circus act to me.

• 1:21:57Speaker 03

  It very well could be.

• 1:21:59Danny Jones?

  Like, like, not that, I'm not saying Bledsoe is making it up. What I'm saying is that I feel like it's that dude or those people intentionally trying to confuse him or make him believe a false narrative about something, but I don't know anything.

• 1:22:15Speaker 03

  No, I, I think that, that does play a role in it. I also tend to sympathize with Richard Banderick's position where it wasn't just that the meta-materials they held in their hands, that, you know, they would dissolve into dust. It was if that was not designed for you.

• 1:22:33Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:22:34Speaker 03

  Right? Then it will return to the, to dust and it'll blend in with its reality. Why? Because if you aren't the one the phenomenon gifted this to and for, it'll dissolve. But if you are, it will allow you specifically to, to reverse engineer it essentially.

• 1:22:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:22:53Speaker 03

  So that, if you take that, again, specifically what he said about holding it in your hand, it would appear to me as if there are two things going on and when I hear Ryan Bledsoe say that the government believed my dad was Merlin, that falls on deaf ears because...

• 1:23:10Danny Jones?

  Did he say that?

• 1:23:11Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23:12Danny Jones?

  Who told him that?

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  I have no idea.

• 1:23:14Danny Jones?

  Find that.

• 1:23:15Speaker 03

  I, I'll send it to you after the show. Yeah.

• 1:23:17Danny Jones?

  Steve will find it.

• 1:23:18Speaker 03

  Yep. So.

• 1:23:21Speaker 03

  I did on the podcast, but it's fascinating to me because people say, okay, that's hilarious. Like, no, no, no, no, he's not saying like, from my position, it's not like, okay, he's actually Merlin. Merlin. Merlin was a category.

• 1:23:30Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Right? Not up just a person. And later on in the journey, it became a category of a person that was in contact with the phenomenon.

• 1:23:39Danny Jones?

  Well, if I was the government and I found a person, I knew I had the best I, you know, I knew what was going on. And we were trying to keep it a secret and not let it out into the public. And we found a person, a civilian who had some kind of crazy connection I didn't understand. I would study the fuck out of him. And I would also make him believe that he was Jesus Christ.

• 1:24:01Speaker 03

  Exactly. Exactly. Yes. As, yeah.

• 1:24:03Danny Jones?

  Because then way he would go out of the public and people would fucking write him off. Oh, this guy thinks he's Jesus? Get out of here.

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  You would be able to capture all of your actionable data. And then after you're finished.

• 1:24:14Danny Jones?

  Dispose of him.

• 1:24:15Speaker 03

  Exactly. Right.

• 1:24:16Danny Jones?

  That's the best way to do it.

• 1:24:17Speaker 03

  And that, that sucks. I mean, I genuinely feel bad about that. Like I, yeah.

• 1:24:22Danny Jones?

  If that's true, that's despicable.

• 1:24:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:24:25Danny Jones?

  But that's, that's their.

• 1:24:26Speaker 03

  It is, it is, it is true that it's despicable.

• 1:24:28Danny Jones?

  But that's what they've historically done to people.

• 1:24:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. They just throw you away.

• 1:24:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:34Speaker 03

  And the sad part about that is the, it's not like the phenomenon leaves them, but they're still going through that. It's just the government got everything they needed from that particular case study. Adios, on to the next. And so what's even worse than that is convincing them that they're the, you know, that they're the only ones that have seen the white lady and their interpretation of her is the accurate one and nobody else's. And I think, again, that's the government telling them that, right? Okay, this is the only interpreter. Meanwhile, behind closed doors, they're like, yeah, there's a lot more to her than, than what we're allowed to say. So, and that's what I think happened essentially is that they found out that he was in contact or she was in contact with him. And said, okay, let's test, right? Because that's what happened. Tim Taylor was at the house and out of nowhere,

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  he pulls Ryan aside according to Ryan's testimony. He goes, okay, hold this for me. Or his dad, or the hold this. And yeah, so it's, it's a fascinating case study. I just, I don't trust the government. And I don't trust the phenomenon. I just don't.

• 1:25:34Danny Jones?

  What is this stuff you were talking about? And?

• 1:25:39Danny Jones?

  I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, this stuff exists in like a lot of old texts or scriptures about these entities actually impregnating humans?

• 1:25:53Speaker 03

  That's the long argument, yeah.

• 1:25:55Danny Jones?

  And when did this start? When did this first starting being, start being documented?

• 1:25:58Speaker 03

  It's everywhere. I will, mainly in the 16th century, a lot of things happened 16th century, by the way. So, there were two things going on at the same time, and then Safdie Palace, today Safdie Israel, they were having the Debook manifestation, or the Dybbuk manifestation. And the term Dybbuk, this gets really weird, by the way, it, it means to cling to, but it also, it also means the impregnation of the dead in the bodies of the living.

• 1:26:31Speaker 03

  So you would have cases, it's just like the incubi, right? Where it's an entity appearing to a woman in a dream, and then the next morning, she'll have bruises on her body that directly correlate with a nightmare. So she's like, okay, it's, this, this wasn't just a dream, it actually happened. But whatever these beings were, they just wanted her to believe it was a dream so she can go live in her life. Really, what, you know, they did bad things. So, but yeah, that, that's the incubus, and that's the Debook phenomenon. But there were cases of pregnancies that would go missing. And, and not just that, this is kind of, it's a, it's hand in hand with the abduction phenomenon, by the way, where it was the succubi, a succubus, a female entity would abduct a, a man.

• 1:27:17Speaker 03

  So, there's a book called Arrows and Evil by Ariel Masters, and he details instances where men were abducted by quote demons, whatever, okay? And like literally being given a child.

• 1:27:35Speaker 03

  And that child looks remarkably like them.

• 1:27:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:27:40Speaker 03

  The problem was, the man would say, I'm a virgin. I would, how could I father a child? So this is why some people, again, that they will look at ufology, demonology, kind of combine the two, because it's possible that we're dealing with one and the same. It's just, these are archetypes of the single source, right? They're masks. So that's where I got to a point in my research where I kept bumping my head into these categories. And I realized like, hmm, maybe we're dealing with the same things here.

• 1:28:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:13Speaker 03

  You know, and that's why my, like, my friend Joshua Kutch, another guy to talk to, he's big into fairy lore and everything, and he talks about this subject extensively, where even some of the fairy lore has the same manifestations.

• 1:28:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, so what we're looking at is either they're all separate intelligence, they're just doing the same things.

• 1:28:31Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  Or we're dealing with an intelligence that's masquerading as all of these.

• 1:28:36Danny Jones?

  One single source of intelligence that's masquerading, wearing masks and shit.

• 1:28:40Speaker 03

  It's possible.

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:43Danny Jones?

  Have you heard of David Huggins?

• 1:28:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:46Danny Jones?

  Wild story. He lost his virginity.

• 1:28:48Speaker 03

  I know.

• 1:28:48Danny Jones?

  To an alien.

• 1:28:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:28:49Danny Jones?

  And had a bunch of alien babies with this lady. And she looked like a, like a human, a human with like an alien head. And there was like mantids and all these other things and like, this guy was not public, was not trying to promote any of his stuff. Just this filmmaker dude heard about him and went and made an incredible documentary about it. And, uh, this dude just sits in his apartment in Hoboken and makes paintings and does art shows and stuff like this and no one, everyone writes him off as crazy because it's just such a wild story.

• 1:29:19Speaker 03

  You know, the more I get into this research, I don't, I don't write off anything anymore, man. It's just, it gets weirder and weirder as the day goes on.

• 1:29:28Danny Jones?

  So these stories of these people that get impregnated, they're temporarily carrying a fetus and then the fetus just vanishes?

• 1:29:38Speaker 03

  Vanishes. Yeah, so the missing fetus syndrome is the

• 1:29:42Danny Jones?

  Is there any modern descriptions of this or like modern accounts of this?

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  There's a documentary called Extraordinary Seeding, I would recommend, where you have these individuals that

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• 1:30:53Speaker 03

  This is what, okay, this is verbose in the field, by the way, where you have these women who they will go through this abduction experience or some of them won't. They just think it's, you know, a dream demon or it's a nightmare. And, uh, and they'll go get surgery or something and their doctor, their surgeon's like, yeah, you've got a lot of scar tissue. Did you give birth? No, right? So there's still, yeah, so it looks like, you know, you, you were gestating a fetus.

• 1:31:23Danny Jones?

  Like a C-section?

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  No, it's just gone. That's what's even weirder.

• 1:31:28Danny Jones?

  But like scar tissue as if there was a C-section or something?

• 1:31:30Speaker 03

  Inside the body, yeah, the cavity. That's, that's weird. Now, I could tell you that in the 16th century, again, the Dubuque phenomenon is equally as fascinating where Isaac Luria, again, dealing with possession and pregnancy. They believed that, that possession to us is pregnancy to whatever these beings are. And so you would not just have the fetus, you would have consciousness in the fetus. As possession.

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  It's really wild stuff, man. But in the 16th century, they were having cases where women were possessed by beings that they were seemingly impregnated by at the same time. And so Isaac Luria would hold the wrists, he was a kabbalistic practitioner, he would hold the wrists of these women, and at times he would find two heartbeats in the same body, two pulses in the same body. And so, and this is one of the most mind blowing instances in humanology, where they're asking the woman, are you, like, what happened to you? Some of this is, it gets into even Islamic exorcism too, right? They have the same methodology, where, you know, you're pregnant with an entity or a being, and you know, you're a

• 1:32:42Speaker 03

  virgin or something like that. Have you had a dream of an entity in the night? And a lot of times it's like, absolutely. So my point, though, is Isaac Luria, and even Ha Yehudah, to a certain degree, they were doing exorcisms on these women that were possessed. And they asked the question, because these women were actually starting to show physically as if they're pregnant. That's why they call it the impregnation of the dead and the bodies of living. And so they're showing symptoms of pregnancy, not just pulses, heartbeats, but actual physical symptoms. And so they asked them, okay, is it possible you're not just possessed by the entity, but you're actually pregnant with it as well? And it kind of changed the course of demonology. Then what we'd be dealing with would be an

• 1:33:27Speaker 03

  entity that would want to impregnate with a fetus and its own consciousness, which is the red right. It's Peter Carroll's red right. You find a woman, you impregnate them, and you take that fetus as your own avatar, so you can prolong your own existence. Now that would explain, I'm just brainstorming here, buddy, that would explain why the incubi entity would produce sigils and secretions at the same time. Why? Because he's trying to transfer his consciousness into a fetus. And he can only do that with his secretions and his own sigils.

• 1:34:00Danny Jones?

  Do any of these, are there any accounts of these people actually giving birth to these things? Like some sort of immaculate conception?

• 1:34:06Speaker 03

  Very rarely. Very rarely. Now, yes, that is, that is a legend. Now, I will give you an instance that, oh my god.

• 1:34:13Danny Jones?

  Is this how Jesus was born?

• 1:34:18Speaker 03

  I don't think so. I don't know. I don't think so. I don't see any examples of sigils being present, but I think that there is something going on that we're completely ignorant of in terms of reality and existence. Now, Dr. Turner, back to your question about are they happening and what's going on. Dr. Turner had a case where a lady was abducted, impregnated, and they did some memory regression with her, which I don't recommend, but they're doing this with her.

• 1:34:48Danny Jones?

  You don't recommend it?

• 1:34:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, here's why, man. You got people, okay, that, and I've had this happen, where like they thought it was a love and light experience, right? It's like, oh, it's a cool, you know, I was abducted, no big deal. And then they're like, but I want to know everything that happened. And then you do memory regression and all of this stuff comes out. And it's like, now there's a lot of trauma.

• 1:35:09Danny Jones?

  Maybe, maybe that would have been best if it just stayed buried.

• 1:35:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was Dr. Turner's theory, like, nah, we're not gonna do that. But Dr. Turner had a case study where a lady gave birth to one of these fetuses and it was no longer alive.

• 1:35:25Danny Jones?

  No longer what?

• 1:35:27Speaker 03

  Alive. And so she buried it. And but the phenomenon, this is crazy, it's almost like it possessed her to put the fetus in a glass jar and bury it. But that's as far as it allowed her to remember. She could not tell anybody, I don't remember where I buried it. I don't know how far deep I buried it into the ground. And so the phenomenon just blocked her memory from the rest. Now, Dr. Turner had in one of these instances, herself, where upon finding out that her whole family was being abducted, she held a family meeting. And it was her, her ex-husband, her son, and they're all talking. And her ex-husband's

• 1:36:10Speaker 03

  like, you know, Carla, don't you remember that you were pregnant by one of these beings? And she's like, no, I wasn't. He goes, oh, yeah. You lost it. We had to replace the whole bed, right? Basically. And everybody knew that's what happened. And she also forgot about the whole ordeal. The phenomenon would not let her remember. So, yeah, is it happening? Very well could be. The problem is, who's gonna remember it? So that's why we have to rely on like the physical data.

• 1:36:46Speaker 03

  God, that's so wild. Well, what's disturbing about all of this, and this is a question that was postulated to Dr. Turner, how many people are being abducted? We don't know. Why? Because the only abductions we are documenting are from people who are allowed to remember them.

• 1:37:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:37:05Speaker 03

  And it's like, okay, well, what about the people that are experiencing this thing? They just don't have the memory of it. And so that's when you start having experiencers who start to have post-traumatic stress disorder, that their body starts to bear the weight of the trauma that their mind no longer remembers. So it's really dark stuff.

• 1:37:26Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. And why would, and why would some people be allowed to remember it? Or, or maybe not, maybe they're not allowed. Maybe this by some happenstance, like their, their, their neuralizer fails or something like that. And they're like Chris Bledsoe, when he does have these crazy memories, memories, which becomes this like self-licking ice cream cone to where now they have all this crazy trauma and that just induces more of this experience.

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  Mm hmm. That may be the case. Another fascinating case study given to us by Dr. Turner, it's captivating because it shows us where we are in this, unfortunately. We cannot trust what we see with this, just like I demonstrated early on in the pathology, where we see something and then what's on camera is completely different.

• 1:38:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:14Speaker 03

  There's a researcher named Trey Hudson, which I'll get back to Dr. Turner in a second, but Trey Hudson has a, an investigation called the Meadow Project. Remember what I told you guys about earlier about projecting consciousness as orbs? Okay. So there are two things a phenomenon can do when you witness it. It can induce bilocation in the observer. This happened with Betty Luca, her husband, and even Judy Doherty, another case study, where you literally see a craft and suddenly you are out of your own body and you are witnessed in two places at once.

• 1:38:49Speaker 03

  Okay, Betty Luca discovered this with her husband Bob, they're abductees. When they're getting ready for bed, Bob is sitting at the edge of the bed, putting socks on. All of a sudden, he's out of his body. His real body's in suspended animation, but there's an apparition of him walking towards her. Same thing happened to her.

• 1:39:08Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:39:08Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, the phenomenon can do that.

• 1:39:13Speaker 03

  The second thing the phenomenon can do,

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  demonstrated by the metal project, is it can change the thermal energy signature of a human being into a ball of light, which goes back into my theory, right, of projected consciousness of a human. In the metal project, they're, they're looking through a thermal camera, they're picking up a thermal image of one of their researchers that is on the project in this, in some kind of park, I believe. Yeah, they're in the woods at least, and they've got him on camera as the thermal image. Out of nowhere, he's no longer on the camera. He is now just an orb.

• 1:39:57Danny Jones?

  Was this blood cell they did this with?

• 1:40:00Speaker 03

  No, this was in the metal project.

• 1:40:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:40:02Speaker 03

  This is one of their researchers. So, anyway, so that's, that's a crazy thing. So, we can't trust what we see.

• 1:40:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:08Speaker 03

  Now, getting back to Dr. Turner, she had a case study of an individual who was having a cookout at her house, and she's got like a bunch of neighbors over.

• 1:40:15Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  And she's like in a catatonic state here, like talking to Dr. Turner, like really emotional. And she goes, "I don't understand what happened." She goes, "The only thing I could say is, we are, we're collectively, we're observing this metallic craft hovering above a neighbor's house."

• 1:40:30Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  "We watched this hover for 45 minutes straight."

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  She said, "I remember pulling out binoculars, staring at this object, and then passing it down the line, and everybody's got the binoculars." She said, "Furthermore, I remember using my telescope to zoom in on this thing." And she's like, "This happened for like 40 plus minutes or so." And Dr. Turner said, "Okay, what's the problem?" She said, "Dr. Carla, I don't own binoculars."

• 1:41:02Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:41:03Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:41:04Speaker 03

  She said, and then later on that day, I went back and found that my telescope was still in the box it was delivered in.

• 1:41:10Danny Jones?

  What the fuck?

• 1:41:11Speaker 03

  Yes. We cannot trust what we see. And so the idea here, and this is the problem, that the phenomenon will diversify itself into different masks, but it can also create a virtual reality scenario to where even those who are allowed to remember it, right? It's a built in mechanism of deceit. Even if I do remember something, is what I am remembering an accurate depiction of what happened?

• 1:41:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, from what you're describing, it makes me feel like it's nothing, it's nothing physical, it's nothing that we can explain with physics. Like, a lot of people try to fit this into a box, like, maybe they're, maybe they're time travelers, maybe they're from another planet, maybe they're here, future humans that are like an ancient descendant of our ancestors that survived cataclysms and live under the ocean now and that have just mastered gravity and electrogravitics and have technology that can basically cloak themselves and all this stuff, but it doesn't seem like that is the correct framework from what you're describing to fit this stuff into.

• 1:42:22Speaker 03

  It's too weird.

• 1:42:24Danny Jones?

  It feels more like, just like, just feel, like, just if I'm going to describe what it feels like, it feels to me more like that we are in some sort of a video game, and these are the creators of the video games that are just like coming in and moving stuff around, kind of like that movie, um, uh, god damn it, we always, I always forget the name of this damn movie, where they come in and they pause reality and they change stuff.

• 1:42:48Speaker 03

  Adjustment Bureau.

• 1:42:48Danny Jones?

  Adjustment Bureau.

• 1:42:49Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, buddy, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would, and I love that movie, by the way, uh, I think it's a combination of three movies. Uh, four, really, if you want to get down to it. So you have the Justin Bureau, you have the Truman Show.

• 1:43:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:03Speaker 03

  Where he realizes, if I go this direction, the control system will try to stop me. Okay, think about this. That moment, and I'll give you all the other movies in a second. Um, but, um, so, okay, that moment of Truman Show, when Truman's starting to realize, like, things aren't really what he, he thought they were. He goes into a grocery store and he sees that, okay, if he goes beyond the limitations, you start seeing what I would consider to be the phenomenon, right, cutting him off.

• 1:43:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:34Speaker 03

  No, look at this. Look at this. Why? It's diversifying itself. Look at this. Don't go be, don't go behind the scenes. Why? Because behind the white doors, right? There was a producer and he realized this is less of reality. It's a stage.

• 1:43:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:43:51Speaker 03

  And a lot of what we're witnessing is stagecraft. There are stagecraft. And so that's one movie. So you got Truman Show, Justin Bureau, then you have Dark City, which is my favorite out of the whole lot.

• 1:44:04Danny Jones?

  Dark City.

• 1:44:05Speaker 03

  Where you have a parasitic species, and this gets back to necronetics, who are projecting their consciousness to create a reality. And at, at every night, they will get together. This is stack five, by the way. They would get together, let's say at right pad air force base, just kidding. And right, they would, they would, uh, together, they would congregate, they would project their consciousness and, and people around them would, like, one guy would watch as these buildings are being moved and created and they're adjusting the landscape. Yeah. And then, and then the humans would wake up and, and wow, you know, what's that? So that's a good one, too. But what, what it appears to be, though, is it's a construct.

• 1:44:50Speaker 03

  That's why they can not just manipulate reality, but I mean, there's been cases, and, and I know this is anecdotal, but, uh, Steve was talking to Peter Robbins about this. My buddy Steve Maron, he's like, Peter is like, it's gonna be the weirdest question, because nobody wants to answer it, because it's, it's a kind of, you know, verbose. What's the craziest case study you ever heard of? Like, what, you know, because for people who don't know, Peter Robbins was a research assistant to Bud Hopkins. And he's like, you know, he goes, Bud Hopkins and when, and I, we went to investigate a case where a man was being pulled through the ceiling by these beings. And something glitched out. And so now he's kind of stuck in the ceiling and they had to go and carve him out.

• 1:45:33Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:45:34Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. So this is why, and this is so cool too, is why the conversation is shifting. It's we're beyond the materialistic view or materialist view of of reality. It's more of an information that becomes matter. That's why the reports take place. That's why they have the ability again to walk through walls, become physical. What does that mean? I mean, I've read abduction accounts specifically in the book Beyond UFOs with Ray Hernandez, where he's talking about abductees who were not taken out of their bodies. But in their bodies, they become non-physical. So it's not astral.

• 1:46:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:20Speaker 03

  Right? It's literally like changing the way matter exists. How it's structured. And then we're pulled into their environment and then at will they put us back together. It's really weird stuff here.

• 1:46:35Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:36Speaker 03

  But that's where we're at. We're we're kind of, I'm kind of done with all of the categories. I just want to look at it. I just want to know, right? Like quit trying to pigeonhole me to one model. What does the data say? Because I think that if people actually knew this data, it's a lot darker than demons. It's like, wait a minute, what's really going on?

• 1:46:55Danny Jones?

  Right. And also, there seems to be the same sort of pattern happening in like these stories of people having near death experiences. Where their near death experience will match their religious background or their religious belief, whether it be Judaism or Christianity or whatever it is.

• 1:47:17Speaker 03

  And that should be a statistical improbability.

• 1:47:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  Well, you know.

• 1:47:23Danny Jones?

  Especially that Gone in a Flash or the one with the lady got struck by lightning.

• 1:47:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:27Danny Jones?

  That one's insane. She like leaves her body and she goes and sits in a garden. And it has all these symbol symbols like, because she was like literally walking into her synagogue when that happened. And like, her whole experience was like very. Related to her Jewish upbringing.

• 1:47:44Speaker 03

  Which is strange, because if there is one truth, or let's say if I have my religious tradition, you do yours, right? And there was one objectable truth, right? Or objective, objective truth, where it doesn't matter what people believe.

• 1:47:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:47:56Speaker 03

  Does it make sense?

• 1:47:57Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  It's like, kind of not that. That's what, it's weird. I'll give you the craziest.

• 1:48:02Danny Jones?

  Very weird.

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  The craziest near-death experience I ever heard of, and I heard it directly from an individual. She was an EMS driver. And when I first met her, she had a scar about that wide, right through here. Yet I knew there was some neurological damage. And she's like, look, Nathaniel, I know you want to ask. I'm like, I'm not gonna ask you. Like, what's, you know what I mean? She's like, no, go ahead. I want to tell you. I'm like, okay, like, what happened? She goes, I used to drive an ambulance. And she goes, I got a call in the middle of the night, um, to go on a call. And she's like, so I'm flying down this highway. It's in the wintertime. She goes, I hit a, a patch of ice. I'm ejected from the ambulance, and my head hits the guardrail. It dissolves all the connective tissue inside of my skull

• 1:48:46Speaker 03

  that holds my brain intact. She goes, if I fall right now, my doctors, you know, told me I'm gone. She's like, so I barely walk anymore. And I said, okay, you know. And she goes, but the craziest thing happened to me. She goes, I woke up in a dimension. She goes, where there was no pain. I wasn't hurting. The collars were more vibrant. She said, and I remember looking at my DC's father. And this is, these are like the cases that really fascinate me. It's like, wait a minute. And she's like, listen, I don't want to go back into my body, because I'm pretty sure I'm in bad shape. And he goes, no, you have to. It's not your time. You've got to go back for your boys. And I was like, okay, you

• 1:49:29Speaker 03

  have children? She goes, not for a decade.

• 1:49:32Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:49:34Speaker 03

  Yeah. And like, the hair in the back of my neck stood up. And I was like, yeah, that's, that's wild. So yeah, she had two twin boys a decade later.

• 1:49:42Danny Jones?

  That's crazy.

• 1:49:43Speaker 03

  So like there are near death experiences where I kind of look at and I think, okay, that's kind of iffy, you know, like it always follows your tradition, but that's a near death experience that I could not explain.

• 1:49:54Danny Jones?

  The wildest one that I ever heard was there was a twins, twin, a brother, two brothers, a brother and a sister that were in a car accident and it was a shared near death experience where one survived and the other one died and the twin brother that survived explained in a detailed account of what it was like. They were out both out of body together and then this being came and took the sister away and then he went back down into his body.

• 1:50:25Danny Jones?

  Fucking gay. That one gave me the chills.

• 1:50:26Speaker 03

  Uh, are you familiar with Ian Stevenson's work?

• 1:50:28Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:50:29Speaker 03

  Okay. So Ian Stevenson, oh my gosh, this is another wild one. I can't wrap my mind around this. Anyways, he has an individual, a woman. She has a near death experience. Well, she comes out of it, speaking a different language, different memory, changes her name

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  and goes in and moves with, in with the family that she allegedly existed with before she had died. So you have literally a near death experience or near death experience her who is like on the verge of dying. Someone else comes into her avatar, changes her belief system, her tradition, her language, her clothing, her fashion, emancipates herself from her family to join another one. And by the way, she came back saying, yeah, I died, but I'm back again. I forget what her name was, but here's my name. I'm going to go back and live with my family. It was, it was only case of that happening, but it happened nonetheless.

• 1:51:30Danny Jones?

  So whoa, whoa, whoa, let me make sure I got this straight.

• 1:51:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:32Danny Jones?

  She had a near death experience.

• 1:51:33Speaker 03

  Someone else.

• 1:51:34Danny Jones?

  Her soul, if you want to say that one way of saying it was her soul left her body and another soul entered her, entered her carcass.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:51:43Danny Jones?

  And then, and then went and did its own thing.

• 1:51:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:51:47Danny Jones?

  And then what happened?

• 1:51:47Speaker 03

  He's out.

• 1:51:48Danny Jones?

  And then what happened to her, her original soul again?

• 1:51:51Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:51:51Danny Jones?

  It came back eventually?

• 1:51:52Speaker 03

  No, not to my knowledge.

• 1:51:54Danny Jones?

  The soul just was gone?

• 1:51:55Speaker 03

  It's gone.

• 1:51:57Speaker 03

  That's like the craziest one I've ever heard. And it was, it was a one off, by the way, but it doesn't matter. We only need one to be like, nah, it's kinda weird.

• 1:52:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:05Speaker 03

  But yeah, I mean, yeah, like, I've never heard of anything quite like that before in the research where literally, can you imagine that? Like, you know, you're, you're thankful, you know, like you're, you're survived the near death experience. Yeah. Deuces.

• 1:52:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it sounds like a, it sounds like a, one of those horrific stories of like salvia trips gone wrong where the people take salvia and then they like live an entire life and like raise a family and children and go through this a whole thing. And then they come back and it was only like five minutes.

• 1:52:36Speaker 03

  That's

• 1:52:36Danny Jones?

  You know, there was this crazy study. I don't know if you've heard of it. There was a John Hopkins study on, on religious professionals where they took, uh, religious leaders from like Judaism, Christianity, uh, Hinduism and, um, uh, like Islam. And they gave them all psychedelics, the same psychedelic drug. And they wanted to document what their experiences were. And their goal was to find out if there was a common core to all religions. It's just like perennialist idea of like, maybe all these religious stories that we have written down all come from one original source. And, um, what they found was that all the psychedelics did was just it enhanced

• 1:53:17Danny Jones?

  their original religious belief. And like, they experienced their psychedelic experience, it had their religion was like mapped on to every single one of them. Like they all had very different experiences based on their religious background and what they believed already.

• 1:53:33Speaker 03

  That's strange.

• 1:53:33Danny Jones?

  Which was pretty wild.

• 1:53:36Speaker 05

  Is this the, is this the lady?

• 1:53:38Danny Jones?

  Lady who died, went to hell and came back to the human world after two months?

• 1:53:43Speaker 05

  Her name is, uh, Sumitra.

• 1:53:45Danny Jones?

  This sounds different.

• 1:53:48Danny Jones?

  Uh, case of possession type in India with evidence of paranormal knowledge.

• 1:53:55Danny Jones?

  Dr. Ian Stevenson? Is that guy you said?

• 1:53:57Speaker 03

  Yep, Ian Stevenson.

• 1:53:58Danny Jones?

  Father of reincarnation research. Um, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. He studied the case of children who claimed to remember, oh yeah, who remember past, this is different, I think. Yeah, I heard about this too. This is what Jeffrey Kreppel was telling us about.

• 1:54:14Speaker 03

  By the way, shout to Jeffrey.

• 1:54:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he's awesome.

• 1:54:17Speaker 03

  Pretty cool. I've never met him, but he seems to be a nice guy.

• 1:54:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he was talking about this too. He was died of it. Oh, this is the abstract. Okay, this is the exact story that this is media articles talking about. Uh, young married woman Sumitra in a village in the northern of northern India apparently died and then revived. After a period of confusion, she stated that she was one Shiva who has been murdered in another village. She gave enough details to permit verification of her statements, which corresponded to the facts in the life of another young married woman called Shiva. Shiva had lived in a place about 100 kilometers away and she had died violently there earlier by suicide or murder about two months before Sumitra's apparent death and revival.

• 1:55:04Danny Jones?

  Subsequently, Sumitra recognized 30, 23 persons in person or in photographs known to Shiva. She also showed in several respects new behavior that accorded with Shiva's personality and attainments. For example, Shiva's family were Brahmins, whereas Sumitra was Thakurs. After the change in personality, Sumitra showed Brahmin's habit, Brahmin habits and were strange in her family. That were strange in her family. Weird.

• 1:55:38Speaker 03

  I think that's been the most fascinating research out right now.

• 1:55:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, so Kripal was saying about the people who, the kids who remembered previous lives. He thinks there was a connection to the trauma or whatever. Cause he said, most of the children who experienced past lives, who said they had remembered their past lives, they were always male in their previous lives. And he thinks that that, the reason for that is that mostly men died violent deaths, more, the more traumatic deaths.

• 1:56:05Speaker 03

  I've heard that.

• 1:56:06Danny Jones?

  Like back in history, you know, because they're the ones that are typically in combat or whatever. So they had the most violent traumatic deaths and that somehow correlated to these kids remembering past lives.

• 1:56:19Speaker 03

  And that's very prominent in, in the Dubuk literature too, where people would become possessed. Like there was one case that Luria had where an individual possessed somebody to solve their own murder and told the authorities, here's where the murderer is. The, the knife that he killed me with is in his possession. Here's his address. They went and knocked on the door. When they knocked on the door, the individual came out and said, oh my God, thank God. His ghost has been haunting me the entire time.

• 1:56:46Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:56:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. For a frame of reference, that's the book, Between Two Worlds and then Jewish possession, or possessions in Jewish literature. So fascinating stuff. But again, when I got introduced to all this stuff, I thought, okay, it's just Swarts and Huts. You know, go to my local church and they're like, that's what it is. And once I got into the data, I'm like, there, there's a lot of things here that's, it's even more fascinating than that.

• 1:57:11Danny Jones?

  And then there's also stuff you talked about with deathbed visions.

• 1:57:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:57:15Danny Jones?

  Where people will try to like remote view deathbed experiences. What was that all about?

• 1:57:19Speaker 03

  So there's a book I have, it's called, I have, it's called, uh, Deathbed Visions, by William Barrett, I believe his name is. And it details the instances where children who were dying would often see already deceased relatives. And what was strange about that was like some of them, cause I, I talked to an individual that worked in like hospice and she was thinking, well, that, there's a reason for that, you know? Like the reason our ancestors would come back to us is to help us go through that process. But some of these cases are like where they weren't even that sick, you know? But the entity is like trying to convince them to give up on life. And so it's really weird stuff like one, one case study in that book was talking about how

• 1:58:05Speaker 03

  there was like a three month old baby and then like a six year old boy, the three month year old passed away. And the six year old boy was still was pretty sick. But then like in the middle of the night, that baby came to the six year old. And was like trying to convince him to give up. And so the doctor is like trying to convince the mother like, I know, like you think that's a good sign, but there's no way that's a baby trying, you know, it's something else is what they were trying to imply.

• 1:58:32Danny Jones?

  The doctor was saying that?

• 1:58:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:58:36Speaker 03

  It's weird, man.

• 1:58:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. How would, how would a baby that young be able to even communicate?

• 1:58:42Speaker 03

  It wouldn't. So there's something else there.

• 1:58:47Speaker 03

  It's that interface, man.

• 1:58:50Danny Jones?

  What could that single source be?

• 1:58:52Speaker 03

  I don't know. I have, I've heard suggestions that it's AI.

• 1:58:56Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:58:57Speaker 03

  Like a, yeah, an ancient version of artificial intelligence.

• 1:59:00Danny Jones?

  AI?

• 1:59:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's one hypothesis.

• 1:59:02Danny Jones?

  Oh my God. Who came up with that idea?

• 1:59:05Speaker 03

  I don't know. I don't know. I know that it was, uh, the Jacques Vallée reached recently mentioned it in passing. But I think that's kind of the new, and I don't, I don't want to say narrative as if they're kind of like pushing it on us or they're framing it. But, uh, that's one theory. But I don't know. I mean, whatever we're looking at, it evolves. It evolves according to our awareness of it. You know, if, if I didn't build, okay, that, that young girl, when she said, okay, I don't believe that you are my favorite cartoon character. That entity began to glitch in and out. And it was just like, well, what do I become? This gets back to some of the old Collins Elite research where there was a paper being passed around.

• 1:59:47Speaker 03

  Federal government, they believe that these entities exist in some kind of cryptid consciousness or some kind of alien physics, not extraterrestrial, but just alien does to where the more you believed in them, the more they would manifest.

• 2:00:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:02Speaker 03

  It's very strange.

• 2:00:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's something there, I think, with belief, you know, because I feel like that's a trait that is common within humans. The more you believe in anything, the more it typically tends to manifest, no matter whether that's a belief, or whether that's like you believe you're preordained to start a Fortune 500 company one day, and like, you start to live your life according to these beliefs, and that it will eventually manifest, right? It's sort of, it's sort of a common theme with lots of things. And there's even this,

• 2:00:38Danny Jones?

  we talked about this recently as well, there's this Hindu zombie cult that's based in Haiti, not Hindu, but it's basically like a zombie cult. It's in Haiti, where these dudes, they take this pufferfish venom that like paralyzes their body. And what happens is, according to the tradition, is what they do is they bury them as if they're dead, and then they exhume the body after like a day or so, and they come back as zombies, like they literally walk around acting like zombies. And this one Bokor guy, who controls all these zombies, can like tell them what to do, they sometimes lock them up. And so this dude, Wade Davis, I believe his name is,

• 2:01:22Danny Jones?

  did some research on this, specifically looking at the pufferfish toxin that these people in Haiti were taking. And he wanted to see if he could do some sort of a study, like a placebo-controlled study to see like, maybe this happens to everybody. And basically, the conclusion of it was, it's just the fact that they're taking this drug, and there's this historical sort of cultural context that is like intertwined into these people's worldview, that makes these people believe they're fucking zombies. And somehow they walk around like zombies. And it manifests into all the new generations of people that are born here and raised here

• 2:02:06Danny Jones?

  inside this culture. So there's this whole cultural, cultural matrix that's involved that helps these people believe.

• 2:02:14Speaker 03

  Then it's like, okay, what is belief?

• 2:02:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:02:18Speaker 03

  What are its properties? You know, there's a book out there called Conscious Acts of Creation and William Tiller's in it. And he, he was a Stanford researcher and he performs this experiment. He's got, again, this group of researchers together. He created, he created in what's called an intention imprinted electronic device.

• 2:02:43Speaker 03

  And so he places this device in a Faraday cage. And it's kind of like, you know, Collins Elite stuff, right? Projecting consciousness and belief and intention into this device. Their goal was to take that device, charge it with intention, belief and consciousness. Place that in another location and change that location's environment. Specifically, they were placing this object near water. In the way they would measure the difference in the effects is they would measure the pH level. They wanted to raise it two or three degrees or whatever in, in, in the pH. They did that. It was documented that it actually occurred.

• 2:03:26Speaker 03

  So they had charged this thing, this is so crazy, with intention, belief and consciousness. And it began to affect that other environment. Now, what's crazy is when they took that object out, when they removed it from that environment, the effects stopped. So that's another way they, they measured and realized, okay, it's us that we're doing this.

• 2:03:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:03:50Speaker 03

  And so it does seem to be a little bit like the apports that we're finding in homes, that they very well may be consciousness charged. So much so that in Tiller's research, he called those environments, like where, where they were affecting the environment, they would call that environment, they were conditioned environments.

• 2:04:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:04:10Speaker 03

  So a lot of this seems to be at least consciousness based and belief based. But how much of me believing in the interface of the unity?

• 2:04:21Speaker 03

  What does that do? Why would it measure the belief? You know, and I asked Barry Fitzgerald this years ago, another researcher in Ireland. Is it possible that it will, the phenomenon will render itself as to something into something that we would find easier to believe in? And then funnel that belief into the actual source? And that maybe that's why it diversifies itself, right? In other words, if you believe that I am dear Ed, Ed, no. You're going to empower me, the person that's actually wearing that mask. Same thing with the, same thing with all the other.

• 2:05:01Danny Jones?

  Well, maybe none of this stuff is real in the sense of the term that we would consider it real. Maybe it is just something that lives inside the human psyche.

• 2:05:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:05:11Danny Jones?

  And the best we can do is try to explain it in the English language or whatever our language is. And normally people, they don't think of something in the context of living inside of consciousness or being enveloped by consciousness only. But if something is, takes that much of a hold on you and you really do believe it, to you, that thing seems real. And then you can see how that can sort of develop its own sort of life form in like the lore and the literature and the media and podcasts and stuff like that. And then that narrative can be spun into something and before you know, it's like

• 2:05:52Danny Jones?

  this crazy telephone game where now it's like you, the whole, the whole source of this stuff just gets lost in the chaos of all of the messaging and all of the way people try to communicate it and write it in books and who knows, maybe like fucking ancient source texts of religions and stuff like that. Like, who knows, man?

• 2:06:16Speaker 03

  Perhaps the most indigestible theory that I've heard as of late.

• 2:06:22Speaker 03

  It's along the lines of the Matrix, but within context. So contextually speaking, the Matrix, right, is the hologram. It's the virtual reality. But that, within the movie, that virtual reality was not just being produced by consciousness, it was being produced by what was ever producing consciousness to produce the construct. Right? It's behind the brain. They plug them in. So the most indigestible theory I've heard as of late is that it's not hacking reality, it's hacking belief. It's hacking, like, literally, not just consciousness, but whatever's beyond consciousness that's projecting it. So it's not the Matrix, it's whatever's producing the Matrix that has been hacked by this phenomenon.

• 2:07:05Danny Jones?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 2:07:07Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:07:08Danny Jones?

  That's hard to even comprehend.

• 2:07:09Speaker 03

  Well, that would explain why it's, okay, it's the black cat. Why? Because it's here. And it can't be here unless it's already here first. So somewhere, yeah, it appears that consciousness itself is hijacked. Now, let's get to that theory real quick. Let's go back to that Gary Nolan case study. If, in fact, some of my research is accurate, not saying it is, but just, you know, whatever, that the phenomenon seeks to be seen, what it's, what it appears to be doing is it's hijacking consciousness by triggering the observer effect. Right? When you observe it, it changes what you're observing. Now, if the phenomenon seeks to be seen, and then observing, it creates another interface, right,

• 2:07:49Speaker 03

  with that girl. I'm observing a craft, but as I'm observing it, there's something else here. Which one of those are real, or more real, and why? Because one's captured on camera? Okay.

• 2:08:04Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:08:05Speaker 03

  Now, the problem is, again, it's like, is it possible that the phenomenon sought to be seen so it could collapse the observer effect, so that I could hijack the consciousness of the observer to conjure something out of them? And now you have an entirely different craft there. Not one wearing the other, two.

• 2:08:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:08:23Speaker 03

  Two.

• 2:08:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it is interesting that.

• 2:08:28Danny Jones?

  These things that are like orbs can still be seen by everybody with the naked eye on camera, on video, right? But like other people see something else, it's projected to something else inside their heads.

• 2:08:41Danny Jones?

  And communicates to them, it's very hard to understand. It's very, it's very strange. And then like going back to like the belief part of it too, it kind of ties to what that telepathy tapes thing was doing because like, one of the problems I had with the telepathy tape stuff, with these non-verbal autistic kids being able to communicate with their parents and communicate with each other and go to this hill thing or whatever, is that, like to really test this stuff scientifically, you have to be able to get some sort of a a mentalist stage magician magician in there to actually observe it and make sure there's no fucker going on because because any of these mentalists can replicate that stuff with using tricks.

• 2:09:21Danny Jones?

  And their excuse is that can't happen because then the energy that they bring into the room, the skeptical energy that they have, because they don't believe it, that will disrupt their ability to perform.

• 2:09:38Danny Jones?

  So that's one of my issues with that.

• 2:09:42Danny Jones?

  And it just seems to tie into all of this other stuff somehow.

• 2:09:45Speaker 03

  To believe it, then it's true. I just, I don't know, honestly, I'm to the point now in my research where I trust very little of what comes from the government. And not that I just trust everything, but I compare and contrast it to what I know to be true in the field. And I just, I want to say like, if all we're going to get is disclosure from ufology, and it's okay, I saw a craft in the sky, we've completely missed the moment. Because Lekatsky, again, Lekatsky is like, guys, it's not just UFOs. That's a branch of a primal tree. And so if all we're going to do is focus on that and ignore, okay, for instance, another reason why we need to focus on parapsychology to a degree is like, you

• 2:10:30Speaker 03

  know, again, Steve Maris had cases of orbs that will transplace audio recordings.

• 2:10:38Speaker 03

  On devices where the tape is placed outside of the device. And the orb will float over it and imprint a voice into that device, in that tape. And they're in two separate places. So again, if, if all we're gonna be saying is, okay, yeah, we, we have lights in the sky. It's like, okay, that's cool. But it seems like there's more to the story that we're not being told.

• 2:11:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah, 100%. And it also is very weird that Epstein and all those types of folks are like, super interested in this stuff. You know, like Epstein was really interested in this parapsychology stuff. He even did like, uh, zoom calls with, uh, he did a zoom call with, what's that dude's name again?

• 2:11:25Speaker 05

  Dean Raden.

• 2:11:25Danny Jones?

  Dean Raden.

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:26Danny Jones?

  You heard of him? And, uh, Dean Raden showed us how he like, he told us that, that he tried to bend spoons his whole life. And he never did it until one time he was able to do it. And like Epstein called him and wanted him to teach him all about bending spoons and stuff. And he was funding these scientists and he had a fucking ranch right by, in New Mexico, close to one of those labs. And was really into eugenics and, and all this stuff. And even like really interested in like ancient Greek stuff. Weird.

• 2:11:54Speaker 03

  That, and you combine that with Les Wexner saying that he's possessed by a D book.

• 2:12:00Danny Jones?

  Les Wexner said he was possessed by a D book?

• 2:12:02Speaker 03

  Yes. It's weird, man.

• 2:12:05Danny Jones?

  When did he say this?

• 2:12:06Speaker 03

  Uh, I don't know, whenever, I don't know.

• 2:12:08Danny Jones?

  Find that.

• 2:12:08Speaker 03

  It was in the files.

• 2:12:09Danny Jones?

  It was in the files?

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  I'm pretty sure.

• 2:12:11Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 2:12:13Speaker 03

  Uh, Les Wexner, yeah. It's either that or an article, but yeah, possessed by the D book. And like, he's gotta do things for it. And sometimes he gets inspiration and like, yeah. It's weird, man. I would never admit to that, by the way. I would just be like, you know, I'd be like, I don't know, guys. Maybe I'm just successful.

• 2:12:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, but.

• 2:12:34Danny Jones?

  You know, he made, Epstein made people call him a magus. Like there was, it's in the files where girls are like literally addressing him in emails by magus.

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:12:44Danny Jones?

  What's that about?

• 2:12:47Speaker 03

  It points to him being on the clothes.

• 2:12:50Speaker 05

  Is this it?

• 2:12:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God. On the morning Leslie Wexner became a billionaire, he woke up worried, but this was not unusual. He always wakes up worried because of his D book, which pokes and prods and gives him the itch itchiness of soul that he calls shpike spilks.

• 2:13:13Speaker 05

  Speichels?

• 2:13:14Danny Jones?

  Speichels?

• 2:13:15Speaker 05

  Speichels.

• 2:13:16Danny Jones?

  What the fuck, dude?

• 2:13:21Danny Jones?

  That's so weird.

• 2:13:22Speaker 03

  Well, if you look, okay.

• 2:13:23Danny Jones?

  And he's, yeah, he, this dude like owns Ohio.

• 2:13:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, no doubt. I'm from Ohio. So, yeah. I, yeah, but look at what he's essentially saying. He's talking about the impregnate lease again, according to between two worlds and then even Jewish views of the afterlife, for those who are book readers. But you can't have that, you know, unless it's impregnation of the dead and the body of the living.

• 2:13:52Danny Jones?

  He met his D book again when he climbed Vale Mountain and changed his life?

• 2:14:00Danny Jones?

  What the fuck?

• 2:14:01Speaker 05

  They're going all in on this, aren't they?

• 2:14:04Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 2:14:04Danny Jones?

  Find more D book quotes. What's he getting into here? That's the next one.

• 2:14:10Danny Jones?

  Uh, Leslie Wexner's D book, "The Demon That Always Wakes Up in the Morning With Wexner And Tweaks and Pulls at Him." "When he was a boy, his father called it an unformed, he called, oh, I skipped a line. "His father called it tummel, "a churning, so he feels molten and unformed, "pricked by these spiritual pins and needles. "He met his, he met this demon again when he was 40 "and already worth half a billion dollars. "When he climbed the mountain in front of his house in Vale "and almost froze to death and decided to change his life. "This demon he calls terminal spikels,

• 2:14:54Danny Jones?

  "which makes him wonder wander his house from house to house, "repeating the pattern of his childhood on a luxurious scale, wanting more, "swallowing companies larger than his own. "It is precisely the reason that Wexner has a..." A billion and didn't stop at say five million and a new Mercedes. Wow, dude, this is wild. When was this written?

• 2:15:23Danny Jones?

  And who was it published by again?

• 2:15:24Speaker 05

  1985, August. In New York Magazine?

• 2:15:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there, there's one I read where he actually-

• 2:15:31Danny Jones?

  Did that say Jim Semivan?

• 2:15:33Speaker 05

  Where did you catch that?

• 2:15:35Danny Jones?

  No, Sullivan.

• 2:15:38Speaker 03

  That's one of the three hours, guys. I gotta get to the airport, I'm just kidding. Oh my god.

• 2:15:44Speaker 05

  I'm glad that didn't say Jim Semivan.

• 2:15:47Speaker 03

  Alright, edit, edit, edit.

• 2:15:49Danny Jones?

  Something happens to people when they get billions of dollars, that when they, when they achieve this sort of like untouchable level where they're just above everything in society. They start to like, they start to get into this angels and demons and like ancient mythology stuff. They start to start to like, they start to try to poke their way into another dimension. It's very odd.

• 2:16:12Speaker 03

  Makes me wonder if they're not an avatar themselves, you know, sometimes, you know what I mean? It's like, okay, who's doing this? You or whatever's inside of you? It's, it's just weird to me. But yeah, I read that and I was like, lines up. You're hanging out with old Epstein.

• 2:16:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. It's super strange. I don't know. What, so what, what, I mean, are there any descriptions in any ancient literature? Or anything like this?

• 2:16:41Danny Jones?

  That have a similar theory that there's like some weird source that's behind all this? Like masking itself? Like I know you said Jacques thinks it's some ancient version of AI.

• 2:16:54Speaker 03

  In passing, but yeah, so I'm gonna give you one of the weirdest case studies I've heard, and I've done tons of them today, but-

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• 2:18:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, in the book, Arrows and Evils, which are literature, and I know a lot of it's been debunked, I know that. But there was an instance where an individual was flown out, not on a broom, but like just taken out of, out of her home. Her husband wakes up and he still thinks that his wife is in bed who was taken. She's not. It looks like her, but it wasn't. So they believed it was a familiar spirit the phenomenon replaced her with. It's really weird. Yeah. Point being is that when she got back, she told her husband, "I thought that I was on

• 2:18:38Speaker 03

  the backside of a mountain, copulating with corpses and demons, performing ritual magic." She's like, but, and this gets back to the matrix, the virtual reality scenario. I'm going to put it in my terminology, there was like a frequency that fuzzed out. And now she's seeing where she's actually at. She's not on the backside of a mountain. These weren't demons or corpses. She was being poked and prodded by metallic objects that, that had the shape of a man, if you know what I mean. And so it was like this kind of ritualistic experiment using technology as well that she was involved in. And the phenomenon had made her think, right? Like, here's where you are.

• 2:19:23Speaker 03

  She wasn't anywhere near that location. So, so this is why I try to stress that, and this is what our federal government's trying to do too, is like, it's not just esotericism or technology. These are not dichotomies anymore, they're dualities. And, and that's what Jack Parsons taught us, right? He's like, "Look, this is not just ritual magic in, in rocketry," or, or rocketry, it's, it's both now. It's both. Yeah. And so that's why you have like Project Gateway, that's why you have the psionic asset, which I haven't even seen his closure to him, you'll see it when I get back to Ohio. But this idea, again, the USSR included this in the article where the brain looks like it acts like a crystal.

• 2:20:07Speaker 03

  And you could actually fit something on the head. And, and project your consciousness along with it, and you could use that as a psychotronic weapon. To affect people. So this idea that it's one or the other, and it's too binary for me. And that's why, and I've, I have a couple of friends in Brazil and they're researchers and their government's doing the same thing.

• 2:20:28Danny Jones?

  This is kind of what that Satan book talked about a little bit. Now, you're, you're, you're ringing a bell for me. I remember there's part of that, that Jacques Vallée. That French Carmelite book about Satan. Where it's, uh, it's, it's, again, it's expressing. Satan through a very Catholic lens. And it's explaining that, yeah, this is the cover of it. 666 pages. It's explaining that.

• 2:20:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I heard that.

• 2:20:51Danny Jones?

  Explain, it's explaining that it's, it's not. Binary. It's not like good and evil. Like that's a misconception. It's saying that. Satan is. At the highest hierarchy, cephalum, I believe it's called, of the angelic hierarchy. And he is a perfect being. He is perfect in every way. He has all the knowledge of everything. He can see the future. He can see the past. He's. Understands everything, but he like chooses. To. Do evil and to try to afflict humanity and. He's not an opposer of, like, he's not an equal and opposite force of God. Or Yahweh, whatever the fuck you want to call it.

• 2:21:35Danny Jones?

  He is just like. This fallen angel. Who is constantly trying to. Afflict humanity and push against it, but he's not as, just as powerful of God. So it's not this like. It's not this equal and opposite binary force. It's just this like what you said. It's more of like a duality.

• 2:21:56Speaker 03

  Yes and no. I'm aware of what he at least described the book as saying. I recently purchased a book by Professor Astrid Morrie. It's called God's Monsters. And so she's a, she's either still at Union Theological or she left recently. It's called God's Monsters. She has another writing, another book called Wibbels Divination in Biblical Literature. Both fascinating. God's Monsters starts out by detailing every entity in the Bible, old and new. Or at least in the Old Testament, rather, just old. But the idea at the very end of her theory was that each and every one of them answer to God. Every single one of them.

• 2:22:38Speaker 03

  And that's kind of messed me up a little bit because I'm like, we got a problem here because one of the questions is, okay, why would God let this happen? And if her theory is correct, it's kind of disturbing.

• 2:22:48Danny Jones?

  According to the Satan theory, the Satan book theory of why God would let this happen. Why would the, why would God let the devil do all this stuff and kill people and have children starve and all this stuff? Is that that makes the human, it makes humanity strive to be greater. And to keep humanity vigilant and to drive humans to prayer. That's what it says. So take, you know, that with a grain of salt because it's looking at through a very, you know, religious lens, but that's, it doesn't make sense, man. A lot of this stuff, that's the problem with the religious stuff is it's a very, a lot of it is very contrad, it contradicts itself everywhere.

• 2:23:31Danny Jones?

  You know, like one of the big things about believing in God to me, which is very contradictory, is that if you believe in God and all omniscient and all omnipotent being, that means he knows everything that's going to happen in the future. That means he can see everything that's going to happen, how things are going to play out in everyone's lives. He knows exactly what's going to happen. Well, if you believe that, that means there is no free will. So if you're gonna build your society based off this idea, well, then how the fuck do you even have prisons? If we don't have any control over our own ideas, over our own actions, that means

• 2:24:11Danny Jones?

  everything we do is justified by God. Well, you can see how that could be like a very dangerous way to

• 2:24:18Speaker 03

  It's a dangerous, yeah, dangerous way to look at it. Precognition and predestination may be two separate things, right? I see it happening, but I didn't cause it to happen. Does that make sense?

• 2:24:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:30Speaker 03

  There's a lot there. I think now, getting back to this, okay, this is crazy too. So what we've learned is that the phenomenon is precognitive.

• 2:24:43Speaker 03

  Which feeds it, okay, who is it? What is it? Precognitive up to at least 16 to 18 months.

• 2:24:51Speaker 03

  Steve Marra was running an experiment and he was getting EVP work and where they were telling him where he would be. Different communications from the phenomenon. You'll be at this conference, you'll be doing this. And so it got to a point where now we're back in the Truman Show where

• 2:25:09Speaker 03

  they told him through some, some medium where he was gonna be, at what time. And so he's like, you know, Nathaniel, he goes, I decided to do everything backwards. Right? He's like, if I was gonna do something, I wouldn't do it. Or if I was gonna, he's like, basically trying to, yeah, right? Like, if I was gonna turn left, that, you know, if I was gonna go here for lunch, I'd decide, basically trying to reprogram the matrix. Right? This is weird stuff.

• 2:25:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but it still wouldn't work. It still wouldn't work. Because if you, that, that idea came from somewhere, right? That idea to do that started somewhere.

• 2:25:48Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:25:49Danny Jones?

  So like, if I just, like, like, that was seeded to him through some event, right? That idea to do that, for him to make the decision to do the opposite of that. So

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  Who's first calls?

• 2:25:59Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:26:00Speaker 03

  So this gets back to like, some of our pilots, people like, so astounded that like, well, they knew where our coordinates were, right? Like, okay, so you're, you're, you're radioing back, you're in your, you're in your, your jet, you're crafting, you're radioing back. And so they're like, okay, here's our, our, here's the coordinates, but don't tell anybody. It's like, yeah, but, and then they show up to the coordinates and a craft is there. It's like, yeah, but who put the thought in the mind of the person who chose the coordinates? The phenomenon did.

• 2:26:26Danny Jones?

  So what happened to this person who was trying to live his life in reverse, trying to do everything backwards?

• 2:26:31Speaker 03

  Steve Mara, he landed right back where they told him he'd be.

• 2:26:36Speaker 03

  So I was like, all right, what am I supposed to do then? Yeah. There's some trippy stuff out there, man. And a lot of this points to

• 2:26:45Speaker 03

  a construct. I can go into.

• 2:26:48Speaker 03

  Okay, first of all, I don't know how much time we have, but the scientist thing, okay, when they're all going missing.

• 2:26:53Danny Jones?

  It's 3:50.

• 2:26:54Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:26:55Danny Jones?

  You don't have to leave here for another hour.

• 2:26:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, so the scientist thing, okay, it's not new. Like in the seventies, there were a bunch of scientists that went missing because they were researching the phenomenon.

• 2:27:09Danny Jones?

  Were they researching the phenomenon?

• 2:27:11Speaker 03

  Nah, to a degree, physics, that kind of thing. Now, Professor Rene Hardy was. He's an academic. He was a scientific savant. He had like tons and tons of patents. But in the book Dark Gods, which is another book to read, it'll, it'll really freak you out. That's a crazy one. But they talk about this case of Rene Hardy where he just ends up missing. The family finds him deceased and allegedly at his own hand. Womp womp. I mean, we've, we've seen that recently, right? With the scientists, like, why would they do that? They would never do that. Well, likewise, his family was like, okay, like, we know him. We were planning on going on vacation or something. He would never do this to himself. He was researching something, you know, private about the phenomenon.

• 2:27:56Speaker 03

  But anyways, they have, they have his funeral. So everybody goes to his funeral. He's a very famous guy, very popular in his field. So he's got, you know, like family members, he's got students, he's got fellow professors and faculty there. And the pregnant silence before the funeral begins, the back doors open. Six men walk in. Nobody knows who they are. They sit down, go through the funeral, talk to a couple of people and leave. So as families do, they go back home and they're conversing and they're eating. Like, okay, man, that was crazy. Like, yeah. You know, Uncle Ted looks pretty good. You know, he's losing some weight, you know, all that kind of thing. And then one of them goes, yeah, but who are those six men that walked in at the very, you know, the very, very beginning?

• 2:28:39Speaker 03

  And like, I have no idea. I remember talking to them. I'm pretty sure, right? I, I took a photograph of them. I know I did because you know, they were right behind a couple of families that took a photograph. So they go back to look at the footage and they never showed up on camera, Danny.

• 2:28:58Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Men in black.

• 2:29:00Speaker 03

  Men in black. Yeah, part of the construct.

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:03Speaker 03

  Show up in the construct. That's what I'm leaning towards.

• 2:29:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, these stories are so crazy, man.

• 2:29:09Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:29:10Danny Jones?

  And they're so anecdotal.

• 2:29:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know that too.

• 2:29:14Danny Jones?

  And you know, one of the craziest things to me, though, is how this is all connected to like the space program with like Jack Parsons.

• 2:29:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:22Danny Jones?

  And all these people, like the founders of NASA were just a group of occultists.

• 2:29:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:29:29Danny Jones?

  You know, some of the stuff Jack Parsons was doing and saying is just so like some of the ritualistic stuff he was involved in and his connection to L. Ron Hubbard and Aleister Crowley and all that stuff. It's just, you know, the history of that stuff is so wild, just a bunch of Nazis and occultists who formed NASA. And try to figure out how to go to the moon.

• 2:29:50Speaker 03

  JPL, I mean, you're, for the most part, you're predominantly looking at a self-taught scientist in Jack Parsons.

• 2:29:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:29:56Speaker 03

  And being educated on part of the phenomenon. I'm equally as fascinated by Marjorie Cameron, right? The divine feminine or the elemental that they allegedly conquered or conjured. And so fascinating to me, though, is there was a conversation that Marjorie Cameron had with Jack Parsons. And at the Parsonage, she's like, you know, your ritual must have been successful. And he said, why? She said, because I witnessed some kind of strange craft in the sky.

• 2:30:21Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:30:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, very strange stuff, but whatever that is, it kind of falls in line with ceremonial magicians projecting themselves of this reality. Wherever we go in the conversation, it's always like, oh, well, there it is, you know?

• 2:30:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:36Speaker 03

  There's something. Very connected to the occult that's present. It's not a buck in this. It seems to be a feature.

• 2:30:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, that definitely seems to be like one of the most hardcore pieces of evidence that this stuff is really serious and is really real because it's a fact that those people were very much involved in that stuff. And, you know, the just the history of the space program and like even the symbi- the symbology of the they put on these rocket programs. Like in Vandenberg and like the names of them, like the Apollo program and all of those things and how they're connected to all these Greek myths and. You even had the Tim Taylor guy saying, he said something like, uh, they visit us or something on the way there. And then Bledsoe asked who he's like, it's our sponsors. Or maybe that was Diana Pasulka.

• 2:31:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:25Danny Jones?

  He talks about the sponsors. Yeah, the rocket. This dude's like believing in, he believes in this crazy shit. And he also is also simultaneously, simultaneously claiming that he downloads information that helps him devise these million dollar patents for things.

• 2:31:40Danny Jones?

  It's too, it's too, it's too crazy to be real.

• 2:31:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I agree.

• 2:31:46Danny Jones?

  But it corroborates all of these anecdotal stories that you're talking about. So like you can't, you cannot write any of this stuff off.

• 2:31:53Speaker 03

  No, that's one thing this phenomenon has taught me is that every time I think something's crazy, it's like, no, it'll one up me. And then, and it'll one up me to something that I know is for sure. And it's like, oh, man. So I have to include everything else at least.

• 2:32:05Danny Jones?

  Right. And not, and, and also you can't discount the stuff that the, these like scientists or not scientists, these astronauts that allegedly, you know, went to the moon, like Edgar Mitchell. Who did these tele- these telep- not telepathy, but these um, like ESP experiments on the way to the moon and stuff like that and. Seeing things and these people were acting very funny. There's something very spooky about the whole space program.

• 2:32:29Speaker 03

  It is. It's very strange stuff. And I just, I'm wanting to know. What esoteric value the government has, like, what are they doing? You know, when Basuka was talking about like the rituals or just ceremonies where you have Barack Obama over here, you know, the leader of the free world and just look in this direction when we launch this rocket. It's like, well, okay, you've got the leader of the free world doing something. He doesn't really understand, you know, he doesn't know any of this stuff to my knowledge.

• 2:33:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:02Speaker 03

  And it's like, but yeah, we're trying to appeal to our sponsors here.

• 2:33:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:33:06Speaker 03

  It's like, well, what are we talking about here? Who are your sponsors? If that's, that's the leader of the free world, by the way, and you're like, stay here. We're gonna appeal to someone else. It just, it, it makes me wonder, like, what do they really know about this? Because it just doesn't make any sense. And, and by the way, and, and if they're gonna be sigilizing and carving symbols on a, a rocket? Like, what are we, I just, I don't know. It, it makes me question the narrative of we have bodies. Okay, for instance, Peter Lavenda, okay? And he mentioned this on Jesse Michael's podcast. It's fascinating discussion, but he mentioned being in contact with Michael Aquino.

• 2:33:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:46Speaker 03

  And dealing with this idea, idea of non-human biologics.

• 2:33:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he told me that too. He's been to a conference in Las Vegas with Michael Aquino.

• 2:33:52Speaker 03

  It's like, yeah, but they're like, the base, basically, if I can summarize it. What he suggested was, yeah, like, first of all, Aquino was like, I don't believe in any of that UFO stuff. Like, what? And then he goes, yeah, non-human biologic stuff, whatever the term was, it's like, okay, it's just stuff that's collected at the bottom of, you know, the spaceship when it's re-entering Earth's atmosphere. To us, that would be not, it's like, well, is, oh, God, is it possible? Like, our own federal government is just like, yeah, sure, it is, guys. Giving us words that they know will take home and, and will believe it's one thing. And they didn't lie to us. They just never gave us the contextual framework to navigate it. Like, this is what I really mean when I say that, but this is what you're gonna hear.

• 2:34:34Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:34:35Speaker 03

  You know what I mean?

• 2:34:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, what could they mean? What, what do you think they could mean, like, in the, when they're talking about non-human biologics?

• 2:34:41Speaker 03

  So, if you look at what Aquino said, it was essentially, whenever a spaceship leaves your Earth's atmosphere and re-enters, whatever is collected outside of Earth's atmosphere and then re-enters, that's called, they consider that to be non-human biologics. So it's, we think bodies. That was basically what he was applying.

• 2:35:01Danny Jones?

  So it could just be like microbial stuff.

• 2:35:03Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 2:35:03Danny Jones?

  Bacteria.

• 2:35:04Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 2:35:05Danny Jones?

  Well, someone was just telling me that they have this stuff that survives on the outer portion of the International Space Station.

• 2:35:12Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:35:13Danny Jones?

  Remember Alyssa Carson was telling us about this. There's some sort of stuff that there's some sort of bacteria or some sort of like microbial life that is actually being collected and surviving on the exterior of the International Space Station. I mean, that could be considered non-human biologics and it's surviving in space. What the fuck is that about?

• 2:35:32Speaker 03

  Well, yeah, we have bodies. Okay. It's like, well, what are we talking about here, man?

• 2:35:37Danny Jones?

  There you go. Whatever the hell that word is. Dino.

• 2:35:40Speaker 03

  Radiodurans.

• 2:35:42Danny Jones?

  Cocus radiodurans is the most prominent bacterium known to survive the harsh exterior environment of the International Space Station. Colonies of these radiation resistant bacteria can survive in open space for up to three years.

• 2:35:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. Who knows, man? I just don't. I question a lot, man. I really do.

• 2:36:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:04Speaker 03

  About the narrative. And if they're not going to disclose the presence of abductions, then it's not disclosure. That's where I'm at.

• 2:36:13Danny Jones?

  Well, they gotta do one step at a time. It's gotta be a slow drip.

• 2:36:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:36:16Danny Jones?

  What do you think about? Did you hear the story about, um, allegedly all these pastors were getting invited to meetings with government officials to talk about this stuff? So they could like, sort of like slowly inculcate the story into the churches and get them sort of used to it.

• 2:36:33Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 2:36:34Danny Jones?

  Then, so one of these pastors went, made a video saying that it was Burletson? What's that? Whatever. I forget the guy's first name.

• 2:36:44Speaker 03

  Eric.

• 2:36:45Danny Jones?

  Eric Burletson. Right. He said that Eric Burletson is the one who basically told him in this meeting with other pastors that there's no God and humanity was engineered by extraterrestrials or something like this. And then, and then Eric Burletson came out and was like, no, this is completely false. I never said this. And then the guy actually recanted it. It's like, oh, I'm sorry. I had a meeting with Eric, but he was telling me stuff and then I started to just regurgitate what I believed. So, but I don't know. I don't know what to believe there.

• 2:37:16Speaker 03

  I really don't either. My good friend Tony Merkel was there. He has a podcast called professionals, but. Nice guy, love to death. So I don't know if there was one or three meetings because you also have Perry Stone coming out, right? Coming out and he was like, oh yeah, that I can, I can say occur that that actually did take place. And then it's like, well, these other group of people were at one meeting and that didn't take place there. But then the same people that had briefed, like the first group had briefed like the rest. It was, it was, it's confusing to me.

• 2:37:47Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  I really don't know what's going on there. I could tell you this much that um,

• 2:37:53Speaker 03

  that the Catholic Church, at least from the priest that we're, that Stephen and I are in contact with, or at least Steve is, uh, this priest disclosed, yes, we are, you know, we've been briefed on some of that. So I don't know. But again, here's the problem, and this is just from my perspective. When you have people like Anna Paulina Luna, who's being given stuff, you know, and, and she's gonna say, okay, this is what it looks like to me, right? And the problem with that is that if you don't know the phenomenon, right? If you don't know the research, don't know the history of this thing, it would kind of just be like, okay, I'm gonna reframe into my worldview, and that's what this is. And then next thing you know, you have like AI, AI renderings of

• 2:38:37Speaker 03

  angels. And it's like, that's not even what, it just, it disturbs me. Um, but I, I'm interested in why our government would believe that they created us. Is it possible?

• 2:38:49Danny Jones?

  I don't think they believe it.

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  You don't think so?

• 2:38:50Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:38:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 2:38:53Danny Jones?

  I don't think if they were gonna tell us something as crazy as that, I don't believe that they would actually tell us. If that was the truth, I don't think they would say it.

• 2:39:01Speaker 03

  They'd probably hide it.

• 2:39:02Danny Jones?

  There's probably some sort of, some sort of mechanism there that is intended to impregnate some sort of belief into the public psyche, or yeah, it's some sort of psychological operation, or something like that. Or maybe it's, yeah, or maybe it's just like a distraction, or just a way to just poison the well and get people fighting and arguing online. There's a million, there's a million, that's the problem. There's a million reasons why they would do something like that, right? And I think one of the least plausible reasons is that they would say it because it's

• 2:39:40Speaker 03

  I don't think that they would disclose it to us if it was true. I mean, that wouldn't just to stabilize religion, that would create other questions. Who created them? If they created us, who created them? Right, then you'd have like, it'd be Hitchens and Lennox going back, you know? You know what I mean? And be like, well, I don't know. Because it opens up a lot more questions that people realize. It's like, okay, well, you know, if we're supposed to be an accident and they're even more sophisticated, you know, are they an accident too? It's just convoluted for me.

• 2:40:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it really is. Um, thanks for doing this, bro.

• 2:40:15Speaker 03

  Thanks for having me on, man.

• 2:40:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah, my pleasure. I had fun. Where can people learn more about your work and find your stuff online?

• 2:40:21Speaker 03

  So I'm just on, I don't do social media much. I'm on Instagram. I have my own platform called Paris and Pose. You have people want to support my work and find more of it. My YouTube channel, Nathaniel Gillis. And then I'm doing NHI discussions with my buddy Steve Marum.

• 2:40:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:40:37Speaker 03

  That's where I'm at, man. Thank you for having me on, brother. My A D H D kicked in, dude, and I was everywhere at once, so appreciate it.

• 2:40:43Danny Jones?

  My pleasure, man. I really enjoyed it. We have Patreon questions for him?

• 2:40:46Speaker 03

  We do.

• 2:40:47Danny Jones?

  All right, we got some Patreon questions for you. So we'll cut the podcast here and we're gonna go to Patreon. Thanks again, bro. Good night, world.

• 2:40:56Speaker 00

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• 2:41:23Speaker 06

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• 2:41:41Speaker 07

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