Trail Tales 98: Spooky Sleuths, Tentacle Bunnies & Shaming Monkey Owners

Today’s stories include spooky sleuths, tentacle bunnies, satisfying curses, bully grouse, and shaming monkey owners. Outsiders Only bonus stories available for Patreon and Apple Subscribers! For the latest NPAD updates, group travel details, merch and more, follow us on npadpodcast.com and our socials: Instagram: @‌nationalparkafterdarkTikTok: @‌nationalparkafterdark Support the show by becoming an Outsider and receive ad free listening, bonus content and more on Patreon or Apple Podcasts. Want to see our faces? Catch full episodes on our YouTube Page! Thank you to this week’s partners! Bilt: Download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live, at http://joinbilt.com/parkFora: Become a Fora Advisor today at fora.com/npadWarby Parker: Buy one pair of glasses and get 20% off any additional pairs at http://WarbyParker.com/NPADWhatnot: Download Whatnot today and get $20 Off and free shipping on your first purchase Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

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• 1:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hello, everyone. Welcome back to National Park After Dark. We're excited to have you here. I'm Cassie.

• 1:23Danielle LaRock?

  I'm Danielle. And we're here to read you your stories.

• 1:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, our favorite episode of the week. Trail tales. We don't have to do any work. We just sit here in bed and hang out and get to read fun stories.

• 1:35Danielle LaRock?

  Well, I feel there's work. But but we have to filter through all of them and pick them and decide who reads them. But aside from that, it's a breeze.

• 1:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's way easier than researching. And thank you, guys, for writing in to us. We really appreciate it. If you are looking to write in and have a story that you want to share with us, you can go to our website, npadpodcast.com. There's a submission link on there and you can submit it. And maybe you'll read it on the podcast.

• 2:04Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Do you want to go first or would you like me to?

• 2:07Cassandra Yahnian?

  You can go first. I'm ready for a story.

• 2:09Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Do you have to me, me, me, me, me? You gotta work.

• 2:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me, me, me.

• 2:13Danielle LaRock?

  Warm up a little bit.

• 2:14Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm just seeing what the vibes are before I.

• 2:16Danielle LaRock?

  Okay.

• 2:17Cassandra Yahnian?

  Start going, you know?

• 2:18Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Yeah. See which way we're going.

• 2:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  Set in the tone. Yeah.

• 2:20Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, the tone is set with this first story titled The Tentacle Bunny of Nebraska.

• 2:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  A bunny with tentacles.

• 2:29Danielle LaRock?

  Yes. And it's a very real, okay, we'll get into it, but I hope you have your phone so you can look it up because you need to look it up.

• 2:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bunnies have tentacles.

• 2:37Danielle LaRock?

  Let's get into, we'll let this person tell us. Okay.

• 2:41Cassandra Yahnian?

  I'm scared already.

• 2:43Danielle LaRock?

  Hi Danielle and Cassie. My name is Jessie and I'm a medical laboratory scientist and a longtime National Park After Dark listener who recently.

• 2:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  God, they do have tentacles. Sorry. I didn't look it up, but you just said they're from science. So I believe them. Continue.

• 3:00Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay. I'm like, I don't see a phone in your hand. I don't see you looking it up. Okay. What was I saying? I'm not even through the first sentence. Okay. Medical laboratory scientist and longtime National Park After Dark listener, who recently packed up my life and drove from northwestern Colorado to Kentucky for my first travel contract. After 11 years at the same hospital and 29 years in Colorado, I had somehow decided to leave everything familiar behind me and start a new chapter several states away. My husband and kids stayed behind in Colorado while I headed east. Along for the adventure were my dachshund Jade, who served as navigator, emotional support, and occasional judge of my life choices. Five frogs, olive martini, snowflake, jalapeno, and moo,

• 3:45Danielle LaRock?

  who spent the trip riding across America like adorable little stowaways, and my pitcher plant because apparently I wasn't moving enough living things already.

• 3:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Great names.

• 3:56Danielle LaRock?

  Quite the menagerie you have going on. The drive took four days and over 21 hours. I grew up near Dinosaur National Monument, where an hour-long drive is often just the beginning of getting somewhere interesting, so road trips, wide-open landscapes, and stories from the past have always felt familiar. Maybe that's why, when planning my route, I decided to drive through Nebraska instead of taking the boring route through Kansas. As evening approached on my first day, I made a last-minute decision to leave Interstate 80 and head north towards Scotts Bluff National Monument, mostly because I could, I wasn't in a hurry, I had the time, and I'd been recently becoming mildly re-obsessed with Oregon Trail history after playing the Oregon

• 4:38Danielle LaRock?

  Trail on the Nintendo Switch. Looking back, that detour feels strangely fitting. Here I was, 33 years old, leaving the only state I'd ever called home, carrying everything I needed for the next chapter of my life, following a route that was once traveled by people making life-changing journeys of their own. Granted, they were crossing the continent by wagon in the threat of dysentery, and I was traveling with a barking dog, five frogs, air conditioning, and an unhealthy dependence on Dr. Pepper and gas station snacks, but still. The universe seemed determined to lean into the theme. By the time I reached Scotts Bluff, I had arrived exactly late enough for the visitor's center to be closed,

• 5:20Danielle LaRock?

  and this would become a recurring pattern. Jade barked heroically at a set of oxen statues, apparently determined to defend Nebraska from pioneer livestock, while I wandered among blooming prickly pear cactus and took photos of the landscape and some super adorable bunnies. The next morning, I returned when the monument was actually open, collected my obligatory magnet and pressed pennies, and continued east through Chimney Rock, Ash Hollow, and a tiny pony express station tucked into a park in Gothenburg. This sounds like my dream trip, and you're just living it.

• 5:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Literally.

• 5:54Danielle LaRock?

  Wide-open spaces, you're by yourself, no one telling you where to go and when.

• 6:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  The open road.

• 6:02Danielle LaRock?

  The open road, it calls to me. Somewhere along the way, I became unexpectedly invested in the Pony Express history. I collected stamps, souvenirs, read recreated newspapers, and learned that most Pony Express riders were teenagers and immediately decided they were all completely unhinged. Honestly, after two days of driving alone across the Great Plains, same. After two days of truck stops, sleeping, parking lot outfit changes, Nebraska wind assaults, and turning my vehicle into a mobile frog habitat, I wanted a real bed and a real shower more than almost anything. The open road, ah, I love it until I want a nice fluffy bed and warm water.

• 6:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like, oh wait.

• 6:45Danielle LaRock?

  Oh wait.

• 6:49Danielle LaRock?

  Luxury is relative. At that point, luxury meant indoor plumbing, sleeping horizontally without recognizing the backseat of my car, and not waking up every time a semi truck drove by. The drive into St. Louis got unexpectedly heavy. About a mile before my exit, traffic slowed around what had clearly just become an accident scene, a small car sideways in the lane. A semi was pulled onto the shoulder. The truck driver was standing outside looking around like he was trying to figure out what had just happened. Apparently, the driver of the car rear-ended him and then fled on foot. What struck me the most was that nobody had stopped. Sure, car slowed down, people looked, then kept driving. And honestly, what were they gonna do anyway? I don't know. I just felt someone should be the one to check on the driver

• 7:34Danielle LaRock?

  or have their hazards on for the cars behind them to know something was up. Turns out, apparently, that someone was me. I pulled over and checked on the truck driver while we waited for law enforcement to arrive. For a few minutes, it felt strangely surreal. Flashing hazard lights, damaged vehicles, traffic continuing past as if nothing had ever happened. Eventually, the police arrived, asked if I had seen anything—I hadn't— and let me continue into the city. The whole thing stayed with me longer than I expected. Road trips can really make you feel vulnerable sometimes. You realize how temporary everything is out there. Entire lives moving alongside one another at over 75 miles an hour. Everyone.

• 8:14Danielle LaRock?

  Trying to get somewhere. By the time I finally reached my hotel, I think I was carrying more exhaustion than I realized, which may explain why the shower felt life-changing, the bed felt heavenly, and Jalapeno the Frog became the unexpected soundtrack of the evening. Apparently, crossing into Missouri activated something deep within his tiny amphibian soul because he immediately began singing the song of his people with absolute confidence. Jalapeno is such a cute name for a frog.

• 8:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  For anything. Like if I got, if I get a dog or a cat, I'm naming them Jalapeno.

• 8:48Danielle LaRock?

  I'm now a part of the small dog club and I'm just waiting for you to join us.

• 8:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  I know, I want to be part of it so bad with Jalapeno.

• 8:55Danielle LaRock?

  The combination of laminate floors, hotel acoustics, and one extremely enthusiastic frog created what can only be described as a swamp-themed opera. At 11:00 PM, I am absolutely certain people down the hall could hear him and some exhausted businessman was probably lying awake, wondering why his hotel suddenly sounded like the Louisiana Bayou. The next morning, I finally visited the Gateway Arch. After driving past it at least five different times throughout my life and never stopping once, the experience felt surprisingly emotional. Maybe it was exhaustion, maybe it was everything I had left behind, maybe it was realizing that I was actually doing this. Twenty-nine years in Colorado, 11 years at the same hospital, my husband, my kids, my home, all waiting 1,000 miles away.

• 9:39Danielle LaRock?

  And somehow, there I was, standing beneath the Gateway Arch with five frogs, a dog, and a plant. And everything I needed for the next three months packed into tiny plastic containers. It felt like a checkpoint, proof that I had crossed into a new chapter. After that, it was time to haul booty to Kentucky. No more museums or historical landmarks, no more scenic detours, just highway. By the time Jade, the frogs, my pitcher plant, and I rolled into Kentucky, everything smelled faintly of road trip, gas stations, humidity, and frog tank condensation. But everyone had made it safely, and honestly, that was enough. Looking back, the Oregon Trail ended up giving me exactly what I was hoping for, a memorable story from the road. It just wasn't the story I expected.

• 10:23Danielle LaRock?

  But wait, I promised you tentacle bunnies. To explain those, we need to put this story in reverse and head back to day one to Scotts Bluff National Monument. Back to the moment Nebraska's rabbit population started acting suspicious.

• 10:37Danielle LaRock?

  There were rabbits everywhere, not one rabbit, not a few rabbits, but entire tiny rabbit civilizations hidden in the grass. At first, I just noticed how many there were and snapped a few photos because they were ridiculously cute. Right when I was about to head back to my car and find a place to park for the night, I spotted another rabbit, but this one looked wrong. Not injured, not sick exactly, just wrong. It felt like I was looking at a rabbit that was somehow out of focus, like I'd taken my glasses off and then decided to go wildlife spotting. Its face appeared to have several long, dark growths sticking out around its head and mouth. It was one of those moments where you stop and stare because your brain can't quite decide what it is looking at.

• 11:21Danielle LaRock?

  "Why does this rabbit look like static?" And then it hit me. "Oh my god, it's a tentacle bunny." Thank you, social media, for filling my brain with enough random facts to identify a rabbit virus in the wild, but not enough information to do well on Jeopardy. The rabbit likely had Schoppe Papilloma virus, a disease spread by mosquitoes, ticks, and other biting insects. The virus causes hard wart-like growths around the rabbit's face and head, creating a bizarre horn-like or tentacle-like projections. Those growths are believed to be one of the real-world inspirations behind the American jackalope legend. For those unfamiliar, a jackalope is basically a rabbit with antelope horns.

• 12:04Danielle LaRock?

  The creature has been part of American folklore for generations, particularly those throughout the Great Plains. Stories of jackalopes spread throughout the West, eventually becoming one of North America's most recognizable cryptids. Entire gift shops have been built on the backs of these weird little horned rabbits. And there I was, standing alone at the monument, accidentally staring at one of the real-life animals that may have helped inspire a legend in the first place. Interestingly, that same rabbit virus has helped scientists prove that viruses could cause cancer and became one of the earliest animal models used in cancer research. Decades later, that research contributed to discoveries that helped pave the way for the modern HPV vaccine.

• 12:47Danielle LaRock?

  So my bizarre roadside rabbit sightings somehow managed to intersect American folklore, virology, and cancer research. The Oregon Trail, Pony Express history, a dachshund, five frogs, and a soul cross-country relocation, which feels like a very specific square on a bingo card. And honestly, I guess that's exactly the kind of National Park After Dark story I should have expected. Please feel free to share my name, story, and photos on the pod. You guys are my favorite to listen to, and I hope I can make it on one of your trips someday. Suggestion, New Zealand, please. Maybe then we can share more cryptid stories. Enjoy the view, but watch your back for tentacle bunnies on the prairie, Jessie.

• 13:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  You know, now that you say that, and I looked it up, I have seen tentacle bunnies before, and I have heard of this before. It was just like way, also on social media, but it was way back in my memory. And it is creepy. I feel bad for the bunnies.

• 13:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I mean, obviously, she stated at the end how it stretches back a long time. You know, this isn't a new virus, but I think social media wise, it came up on Into Our Worlds a couple of summers ago. I feel like it was everywhere, and everyone was freaking out over tentacle bunnies. But it's, I guess, not new. But if I was to describe it, I would say it looks like, what's that guy from Pirates of the Caribbean?

• 14:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  Oh, yes, I totally know who you're talking about. Maybe.

• 14:17Danielle LaRock?

  Because doesn't he have a locker, Davy Jones's locker or something?

• 14:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, something like that. It's been forever since I've seen it. But I know exactly who you're talking about. Yeah.

• 14:25Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Tentacle face.

• 14:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Tentacle face. That's his name in Pirates of the Caribbean.

• 14:32Danielle LaRock?

  In case you didn't know.

• 14:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, thank you for telling us that story and your road trip. Very exciting. I, moving on to my next story, or my first story, I should say, is titled Ignoring the Signs to Find the Murder House in Sleeping Bear Dunes National Seashore.

• 14:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Hi Danielle and Cassie. As always, I need to start by telling you how much I love your podcast. I am always informing the people in my life about the latest NPAD story I listen to, and my husband is often puzzled by how a girl with so much anxiety could love a podcast all about how dangerous her favorite places are so much, but life is full of mysteries. I was so excited this week when I finally felt I had a story worthy of Trail Tales. This story, however, requires some personal lore. About a decade ago, I visited Sleeping Bear Dunes National Seashore on a trip to visit a friend living in the town of Glen Arbor. Having been a nature-loving Michigan girl all my life, I was completely shocked to find this magical land that I barely knew existed.

• 15:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thus, this quickly became my favorite park in the world, so much so I got a tattoo of the coordinates on my arm, and I'd make several trips a year to explore more and more of everything the park had to offer. The area is best known for its natural beauty, enormous sandy bluffs, hidden lakes, gorgeous rivers, rolling woods, abundance of flora and fauna, and of course expansive views of Caribbean Blue Lake Michigan with the famed Bears, aka the South Manitou Island, rising from its crystal waters. But as my mom, my go-to travel buddy, and I soon found in our trips, is that Sleeping Bear is home to an expansive preservation and restoration of historical structures and stories. Driving north of the more popular parts of the park,

• 16:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  you'll find Port Onito Historic District, which is home to 22 preserved farmsteads and various other structures, all maintained by the MPS. My mom and I are fascinated by the stories of people who lived before, and we luckily found a local author who shared this passion and has compiled two and counting anthologies of maps and stories from the locals that has left us with a scavenger hunt of exciting historic and sometimes spooky things to find in the area. Some of our favorites include the 1950s Buick Park Deep in the Woods and a sugar shack tucked behind an expansive row of 100-year-old maples and a doghouse built for man's best friend hundreds of years ago. Through this, we've also learned some signs that help identify sites of former homesteads.

• 17:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  These include heirloom apple trees, rows of ancient oaks, patches of myrtle gnarly lilac bushes, and overgrown whispers of driveways traveled mostly now by deer. We've been using these signs and rough maps to sleuth out sites of homes we've read about in the anthologies. Last year, my mom, sister, and I read a story that immediately got us to our feet to go searching for our next remnant. We read of a large ornate house belonging to the Jen family. This was tucked deep in the woods at the end of the road that locals feared walking by. The Jens kept to themselves, and it was believed that they were bootleggers. They abandoned their house one day in the night, and local legend took over. Some believed that the Jens murdered two people and buried them in the cellar.

• 17:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Others say that they kept their servant boy chained up in the cellar for years. This speculation led the Jen place to fall apart to disrepair until it was nothing but a foundation. Using clues from the book, we figured out a general location where the foundation of the house could be, and we set off down a narrow two-track to search for it. It was nearing dusk, not an ideal time to travel deep in the woods in search of a supposed site of murder, but we considered ourselves to be a bit feral, and we went for it anyways. Just when we thought we were about to get to the site, the road was rendered impassable by a fallen tree. We all remarked that this was probably the woods telling us not to venture further, but our curiosity and faith in the Subaru Forester fueled us, and we broke off enough branches

• 18:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  to make a path around the tree and were able to continue. We made it to where we suspected the location was and found many of the signs that it was in fact the location of a homestead, but we could not find the foundation. Darkness crept in, and we had to abandon our mission for the night. My mom and I returned the next day, only to find the road impassable again, this time due to a truck parked all the way across the narrow two-track. Discouraged, we turned around and thought maybe we were being sent signs that this was not an adventure that we should be on. Flash forward to this year, my mom, sister, and I were once again spending the week in the area, and on a snowy, windy day, we decided once again to go searching to the

• 19:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  foundation. We drove back on the winding two-track, and just as my mom said, "I swear, I'm gonna be really freaked out if something is blocking the road again," we turned the corner and came upon a large down branch. We had to back all the way back down the two-track and to the road, and we decided to try accessing the site from another direction via a hike called Kettle's Trail. Trying to convince my mom we weren't ignoring bad omens, I said, "Maybe nature isn't trying to get us to stop looking, maybe it's telling us we need to look somewhere else." So, we embarked on our hike, and as we crept further into the woods, I noticed a driveway-like clearing leading up to a hill. We drove off the trail and investigated the clearing,

• 19:59Cassandra Yahnian?

  and noticed some dead fruit trees and lilac bushes, as well as the telltale ancient oak trees. I saw a suspicious depression in the ground, only about six to eight feet wide, surrounded by lilac bushes, and joked it could be the cellar, but recalling the story that spoke of a grand house, we brushed it off as a deer blind and continued on. We made it all the way back to the site we explored the first time we went looking, and once again came up short. We assumed that maybe it had simply become buried over time, and we wouldn't be able to see it poking out of the overgrowth. We turned around, but thought maybe we should check where we found the hole on the way back. This time, we explored in more detail as we approached, my sister and I venturing off the beaten path.

• 20:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  As we approached the hole in the ground, we thought it could be a clue, contemplating whether or not we should even be out here, given that the universe has been blocking us each time. I saw something so absurdly creepy that all I could do was laugh. "Are you familiar with the Blair Witch Project? All those creepy stick people hanging from the trees?" Yep, there they were, right in front of us. I still haven't decided the context in which they would be there, either a practical joke, or someone is up to some freaky stuff in the woods just off the trail, but the moment I saw them, I froze and screamed, "No fucking way!" My sister, whose spooky tolerance is much higher than mine, wanted

• 21:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  to get closer, but I grabbed, and like the 28-year-old adult I am, I ran for my mommy. We ended up back in the deep depression and looked closer at it. My sister even going as far to jump down into it. Good luck with whatever curse comes with that, Kels. But it wasn't until we walked around to the other side that we could clearly see it. The foundation, a stony one as the house was built in the 1850s. But we knew that we had found what we had been fondly referring to as the murder house. We found other signs such as broken antique bottles and the clear path the driveway would have made. We were so tickled that we persisted and actually located something we had been determined to find

• 22:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  that we nearly forgot the cursed objects mere yards away from the location of the cellar. I'm happy to report that as far as we know, no curses have followed us post murder house exploration. My main takeaway from this experience, never underestimate some feral women on a quest. We are already on the hunt for our next historic sleeping bear exploration. Or maybe next time we'll just relax and lay on the beach like regular tourists. As always, thank you for all that you do and for being my favorite asbestos I've never met. Thank you for taking the time to read my tale. My mom and sister will be thrilled to hear this. Enjoy the view and watch out for signs of the people who came before you.

• 22:43Danielle LaRock?

  Ooh, spooky. That sounds like such a fun pastime. Who needs to lay on the beach?

• 22:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Who needs to land the beach when you could go to a murder house?

• 22:54Danielle LaRock?

  In the woods.

• 22:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  Which are you gonna remember? How many beach days have you had? And can you remember the details of them?

• 22:59Danielle LaRock?

  Right, they all blend together at a certain time, you know?

• 23:02Cassandra Yahnian?

  If you go to a murder house, unless you go to like so many murder houses.

• 23:07Danielle LaRock?

  Then they all start to blend together.

• 23:10Cassandra Yahnian?

  Pick your poison.

• 23:11Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, I don't know. I think it reminds me of when, I bring up metal detecting a lot, but when I was really into it and just going into the woods after researching where historic homes were and just looking for those telltale signs of homesteads and things like that. And it's really hard, especially in the Northeast. You know how the forest just takes over everything so quickly? And it's, unless it's a pretty obvious stone foundation remnants. Like, I don't know if I would know to look out for like fruit trees and just different things like that. But that's smart.

• 23:52Cassandra Yahnian?

  Now we do.

• 23:53Danielle LaRock?

  Now I know. I clocked it.

• 23:58Danielle LaRock?

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• 24:43Danielle LaRock?

  by utilizing cameras to watch for potential threats and alert those security specialists who will intervene in under 30 seconds, speaking through the camera to stop an intruder mid-stride while also calling 911. Join the more than 6 million people who entrust SimpliSafe with their home security. Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/NPAD. That's simplisafe.com/NPAD. And when you order, please write National Park After Dark in the checkout survey. It lets them know that we sent you, and it really helps support the show. SimpliSafe, ahead of crime, in real time. When I first got my banking cards as a young adult, I wished more than anything I could customize them, maybe plaster my favorite things on them, like my dog's faces or the Titanic.

• 25:27Danielle LaRock?

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• 26:11Danielle LaRock?

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• 26:29Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, well, my next story is titled "A Monkey Named Tucker."

• 26:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  Aw, that's my dog's name, Tucker.

• 26:37Danielle LaRock?

  Hi, Cassie and Danielle. My name is Lydia and I am, of course, a huge fan of the pod. In fact, it was the first podcast I ever listened to and you guys fully converted me into the annoying friend who won't shut up about the things they learned on a podcast.

• 26:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yes, welcome.

• 26:52Danielle LaRock?

  Perfect, it's working.

• 26:55Danielle LaRock?

  I especially love listening while I'm at work, which is where my story takes place. But it's going to require some context. I am a keeper at a sanctuary for rescued exotic animals. We have a huge variety of over 60 different species, primates, reptiles, birds, tigers, bears, and a bunch of other random stuff in between. Yes, I am a psycho who listened to The Night of the Grizzlies while actively taking care of bears. Safe to say, I was triple checking all my locks that day. Shameless plug, we are called Black Pine Animal Sanctuary and if you are ever in the area of northeast Indiana, you should absolutely come visit us. We are a nonprofit and accredited by the Global Federation of Animal Sanctuaries. We are a true sanctuary.

• 27:37Danielle LaRock?

  So by our standards, we do not breed, buy, or sell any of our animals, nor do we allow any public contact with our residents. It is definitely not a roadside petting zoo situation and a lot of our animals actually come from those kinds of places where they were used and abused for profit without ever being given proper care. All of my homies hate Joe Exotic for real. That's a perfect way. You could have just said that instead of all that other stuff.

• 28:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  It would have been like, "We're coming."

• 28:07Danielle LaRock?

  We get it. But thank you for explaining nonetheless. And fun fact, this is where I did my first ever working interview out of college.

• 28:19Cassandra Yahnian?

  No way, with the cats?

• 28:21Danielle LaRock?

  Before I decided to work at the Colorado Wolf and Wildlife Center. Nothing against Black Pine Animal Sanctuary. I loved it. I just didn't want to be in Indiana.

• 28:33Danielle LaRock?

  No shade.

• 28:36Danielle LaRock?

  I'm digging myself a hole.

• 28:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, you just said that so matter-of-factly, like, obviously I didn't want to be there. There's nothing wrong with Indiana, Danielle.

• 28:44Danielle LaRock?

  No, I get it. But I'm just saying that was my personal reasoning. But the sanctuary itself was very nice, is what I'm trying to say. Anywho, you get it. It's just fun because I can picture this, this place. Anywho, um, okay. Many of our animals come from private owners who either surrendered them or had them legally confiscated. Indiana unfortunately has very few laws when it comes to owning exotic animals. The only animal at the sanctuary that we require a permit for is our American alligator, Gus, who was raised in a frat house bathtub at Indiana University. I wish I was making that up.

• 29:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  There was an alligator at my, at my college, too, and not in a bathtub, it was in a little pool. And I wonder sometimes where that alligator went.

• 29:33Danielle LaRock?

  Where he is now.

• 29:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Danielle LaRock?

  Hopefully at a really nice accredited sanctuary and not just released somewhere.

• 29:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, I mean, it's been a long time now, so.

• 29:42Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 29:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  I think we'd know if there was an alligator running loose in northern New Hampshire. So hopefully it went to a.

• 29:49Danielle LaRock?

  A good home.

• 29:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  Home, yeah.

• 29:51Danielle LaRock?

  Crocodilians are actually legal to own here. Crocodilians are actually legal to own here, but need a permit once they get over five feet in length. Crazy stuff. And just when you thought it couldn't get crazier, in comes the star of today's story, Tucker. Not Cassie's dog Tucker, she knows. You didn't have to say. But a monkey named Tucker. Specifically, he's a long-tailed macaque. And if you know anything about monkeys, you know macaques can be scary as hell. Tucker came to the sanctuary in a very Indiana-coded sort of way, which was being confiscated from a meth trailer during a drug raid.

• 30:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  What's going on in Indiana?

• 30:32Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, and I didn't want to live there.

• 30:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is why Danielle didn't want to go.

• 30:35Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, so don't come at me. Poor Tucker was found locked in a dog kennel, wearing a leash and a diaper. It just gets worse. It just keeps getting worse.

• 30:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's awful.

• 30:47Danielle LaRock?

  He was very young at the time, and because he was likely bred in captivity and then taken from his mother at a young age, he never got the chance to learn normal monkey skills or behaviors. So a few years ago, when we got the opportunity to bring in two female snow macaques for him, we jumped at the chance. The two girls had been raised in a troop of monkeys and could teach Tucker how to be a real macaque. Enter Mary Lynn and Julianne, a mother-daughter duo that Tucker instantly fell in love with. However, there was one problem. Before we could fully introduce them, Tucker had to be neutered. In general, when we house males and females together, we try to neuter or vasectomize the males rather than spaying the female, since it's a less invasive procedure.

• 31:31Danielle LaRock?

  We have an amazing vet tech team who oversees the care for all of our animals and works with multiple vets in our area to cover care across species. She is truly a rock star, as vet techs generally are. However, finding a local vet who is comfortable performing surgery on a macaque proved to be a bit difficult. Macaques are aggressive, extremely strong, and they can be carriers of a virus called herpes B, which is fatal to humans. PSA: They absolutely do not make good pets. While our techs searched high and low for a vet who could come through for us, we had to make preparations to be able to safely sedate Tucker. Connected to his habitat is what we call a shift chute, which is pretty much exactly

• 32:14Danielle LaRock?

  what it sounds like. It's a large chute that we shift the monkeys into so we can safely enter the habitat to clean. In order to safely inject Tucker with a sedative, we needed to turn the chute into a makeshift squeeze cage that was sturdy enough to contain an adult male macaque while also giving keepers enough distance to not get swiped at by said macaque while operating it. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention that this is an overhead chute, which means that in order to operate the squeeze mechanism, that keepers had to stand on ladders, which was not sketchy at all.

• 32:47Danielle LaRock?

  Finally, after six weeks of waiting and many dead ends, our vet tech finally managed to convince one of our local vets to perform the surgery. We were all ready for the ordeal to be over with and to get Tucker introduced to his ladies. At last, the day arrived and it was time to sedate him. The squeeze cage worked as intended, though it wasn't easy, and Tucker tried his best to swipe at the keepers operating it. They managed to restrain him enough for the sedative to be injected. Yay, now we wait. Forty-five minutes later, Tucker is still very much awake. Y'all, we ended up having to dose this boy with ketamine three times before he went to sleep.

• 33:29Cassandra Yahnian?

  He grew up in a meth house. What do you expect? He has tolerance.

• 33:33Danielle LaRock?

  So true. You should have worked that into your pre-op.

• 33:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 33:37Danielle LaRock?

  Protocol. Anyway, he knew something was up and was fighting the drugs as hard as he could, but eventually he gave in and could be safely moved down to the vet clinic. Now it's the moment we've all been waiting for. The vet team has prepped Tucker for surgery. As the veterinarian finds where to make the first incision, he notes that Tucker's balls seem to be oddly deflated. Huh, that's strange. Wonder, wonder what that could mean. Maybe they never descended. That happens sometimes, especially when bad breeding is involved, like in Tucker's case. So the vet searches and searches some more. But alas, no balls are to be found. As it turns out, he may have never had any in the first place. Is

• 34:21Danielle LaRock?

  bad breeding to blame? Who knows? But there were no scars to indicate a previous surgery, and we all found it hard to believe the meth heads were concerned with getting their monkey reproductive care, which is true, valid. So there it was, almost two months of planning, and this monkey didn't even have balls. And all the drugs and like the whole process of things. And we've been there, not with monkeys, obviously, but yeah, just waiting for drugs to kick in and the fight and the back and forth.

• 34:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember this is totally like a different. I would just, I remember it was like one of my first neuters that I was in and I shaved this dog like a spay where you shave half their stomach.

• 35:08Danielle LaRock?

  On purpose or were you just like vibing?

• 35:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  I

• 35:11Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, wait, it was your first?

• 35:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  It was my first time I did it and I had only been in space prior to that. So I think it was just like muscle memory, like we're in it and I just started shaving and then I remember I shaved their whole stomach and then I looked at their balls and I was like, oh no. And then the doctor came in and was like, well.

• 35:30Danielle LaRock?

  All scrubbed up waiting. You're like, oh shit. At least you noticed.

• 35:34Cassandra Yahnian?

  We did.

• 35:35Danielle LaRock?

  Like oops.

• 35:36Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's just so funny, like sending a pet like that home to their owners. And it's like, why is their whole abdomen shaved?

• 35:46Danielle LaRock?

  Hopefully they didn't notice and they're just like, oh, it must just be

• 35:50Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like part of

• 35:50Danielle LaRock?

  Like the sterile, the sterile field was just extra careful.

• 35:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember it was a dog that had like fur too. It wasn't like a pit bull or something with really short fur. It was like, hi.

• 36:02Danielle LaRock?

  Whoops. Well, if you, from the years 2016 to 2019, in Southern New Hampshire, ever had your male dog come home like that, you know who's to blame.

• 36:18Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's probably me.

• 36:21Danielle LaRock?

  Okay. Anywho, on the bright side, he got a physical exam and is in good health other than his mysterious missing gonads. Tucker was given a week for his entirely pointless incision to heal before he was finally able to be united with the girls. And in the end, it all turned out okay because they love each other. This was in early 2024 and now over two years later, that love hasn't faded. Sadly, Marilyn passed it, passed away from heart failure this past fall at the age of 29. But her daughter, Julianne, still lives with Tucker. They spend their days playing with enrichment, snacking on fresh produce and grooming each other to sleep. Tucker tax will of course be included with this email. This is just one of the many insane stories I have from the three years of working at

• 37:04Danielle LaRock?

  Black Pine, but I know you guys would appreciate this one as vet techs. Working with animals is always a toss up. It doesn't matter how much you plan, they will find a way to surprise you. That's what makes working with them so much fun. But animal care is hard. It's exhausting mentally, physically, and emotionally. At the same time, though, it is so fulfilling. At the sanctuary, giving these animals a second chance at a good life means everything to us. It's the most rewarding thing ever to build relationships with animals that were once traumatized, to see them happy, safe, and nourished, to be able to give them a dignified end when their start was so terrible. We experience many losses, but every animal that comes to Black Pine knows what it feels like to be loved and cared for, and that is the most important thing.

• 37:49Danielle LaRock?

  Sorry for getting sappy, but I know y'all will understand me as fellow animal lovers. You guys are awesome, and if you're ever in Indiana, hit me up and I'll introduce you to Tucker. The Tooth and Glau, boys can come too. Braxton, cut that. Just kidding.

• 38:06Danielle LaRock?

  Just kidding. They can come, I guess. P.S. Danielle, I am also including a photo of our wolf dogs Karma and Minko. For your viewing pleasure, feel free to share them on socials. Enjoy the view, but always make sure you have enough ketamine on board. Lydia.

• 38:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  Wow, Lydia, what a cool story, and that's so funny.

• 38:27Danielle LaRock?

  At first, I thought it was going in the direction of, and that's when we realized Tucker was not a male. You know, like, I thought they were gonna think, find out.

• 38:38Cassandra Yahnian?

  I could see that direction, for sure. But I thought it was gonna go in that he was neutered already, but with no incision and no, like, reason to have been neutered before, especially with a procedure that's would be difficult to find something to do.

• 38:56Danielle LaRock?

  It's also maybe that's a

• 38:57Cassandra Yahnian?

  Maybe bad breeding.

• 38:58Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah. Bad breeding in macaques.

• 39:01Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yep.

• 39:02Danielle LaRock?

  I didn't know they could live that long.

• 39:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  I didn't either.

• 39:06Danielle LaRock?

  Speaking of monkeys, I saw another shout out to I love this nail salon, local nail salon, Black Heart, but I follow their Instagram page and they're like, in this episode of things you see out the window of Black Heart Nail Salon, and it was a person waiting to cross the street and they had a monkey with a diaper on their shoulder. I'm like, why are we doing this?

• 39:28Cassandra Yahnian?

  Why? Why? It's 2026. Why do we have monkeys?

• 39:32Danielle LaRock?

  As pets. I don't get it. Sorry to all our listeners who own monkeys for shaming you, but.

• 39:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  Shame.

• 39:41Danielle LaRock?

  Shame. Shame.

• 39:46Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, sticking with the animal theme, my next story is titled Animal Attack Survival Story. Hi, Cassie and Danielle. I've been a big fan of NPAD from the beginning. I work in the outdoors industry and am an avid lover of our public lands where your podcast keeps me company on trail. Having worked on trail crews and conservation and backcountry guiding, I have no shortage of trail tales. I've navigated whitewater and leaky canoes, portaged around massive waterfalls, cowboy camped in the high desert, and slogged through the reptile-rich sloughs of the Everglades. But recently, I survived the most terrifying ordeal of my travels. I'll take you along with me. I've been dreaming of doing a through hike for

• 40:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  years, but there's always been some obstacle, usually time or money, and the dreams remain just that, a fantasy. Not this summer. My current job coincides with the typical academic year, leaving my summers open for other seasonal work or adventuring. This summer, I chose adventure. I would hike the approximately 300-mile Superior Hiking Trail, SHT, a stunning footpath that runs through the north shore of Minnesota, beginning just south of Duluth and ending just short of Canada. It runs through a handful of state parks, as well as the Superior National Forest, boasts incredible views of the sea-like Superior, and lots of opportunity for stumbling across wildlife, such as beaver, fox, groundhog, deer, bobcats, and

• 41:12Cassandra Yahnian?

  A handful of animals that while majestic are not to be messed with. Bear, wolves, moose, and as I learned quite recently on trail, at least one other critter capable of unleashing terror on unsuspected hikers. This story begins about 240 or so miles into my trail, not far from Grand Marais on the map. The SHT is a series of some of the most spectacular vistas, rugged cliff face, stunning river gorges, and at least in early summer, lush corridors fragrant with Canada plum, wild rose, and lupin. At least along much of it. On this day, the trail meandered along flat muddy terrain intersecting with ATV trails and dense vegetation.

• 41:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  Without any grand views to entertain, I focused on looking out for wildlife. I had seen plenty of signs of moose and wolves in the miles previous, tracks, scat, and today I had stumbled across what couldn't have been more than a few hours old wolf poop on the trail. I would keep my eyes peeled. Another mile or two passed uneventful, and I was in the zone hiking with my earbuds in when there was a sudden carrousel in the woods just left of me. A bursting beating of wings, close enough to the ferns around me, shook. I startled, then settled. It's not uncommon to encounter grouse along the trail, and in nesting season, the mama grouse will make a commotion to those passing unwittingly too close to their chicks. I have never deemed them much of a threat.

• 42:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I still hear fuss behind me, and I turn around to see the grouse, now in the middle of the trail staring me down. Not just staring me down, it is running towards me. If you don't know what a grouse looks like, they're chicken-sized birds with short legs and more turkey-like plumage. They don't look particularly fast or intimidating, and I scurried away from it without a second thought. Surely, it was just being territorial and would leave me alone once I was out of range. Most people know with predator encounters, you shouldn't run or you'll trigger a chase. I did not realize these rules would apply to a gamey little bird as well. The grouse did not relent upon seeing my retreat. If anything, it started after me faster.

• 43:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  These birds can move, or I'm severely lacking in cardio. I swivel on my feet and make a false start towards the grouse as if I'm going to charge. I am a massive primate. This is a small bird. Surely it will notice the inequality in strength and leave me alone now? This only angers the grouse. Another beating of wings, a jump into the air, a flurry of feathers. It lands on the ground, ready for hot pursuit again. It gets low and charges on. I have not learned my lesson that running is only triggering it more, so I run again. The grouse pursues. I stop wheezing now and turn again to stomp my foot at the bird. It beats its wings, jumps, and pursues again.

• 44:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  I turn, I run, I swivel, I charge, I'm chased. I turn, I run, I swivel, I charge, I'm chased. If you've ever seen self-defense videos when they're talking about if you're ever being approached or threatened in the street, you should make your voice as big and bold as you can and assert, "Stop!" Make it clear that you're a threat and are prepared to defend yourself. This is what I am doing with this little grouse now. I am sick of being chased, so after maybe the third or fourth unsuccessful sprint, I turn once again to charge the blood lusty grouse. "Hey, stop! Back the fuck off!" I scream at the bird. The bird beats its wings, jumps, pursues. "I said, back off!" Does it sense my fear? Can grouse have rabies?

• 44:49Cassandra Yahnian?

  This story would be way cooler if it was a wolf. The grouse hears all my thoughts, ignores my threats, beats its wings, jumps at me, and pursues again. I really am an animal lover, and I do not want to hurt this bird. I think even as I'm realizing that this bird definitely has murder on the mind itself, it is closing the distance I've put between us, undeterred by my charging, stomping, and yelling. Oh my God, am I going to have to kill this grouse? I raise my trekking poles and start swinging wildly. I'm not aiming to hit the bird at all, just hoping it would be wiser not to leap at me, seeing the metal sticks I am brandishing. But I am not encountering an average grouse. This one is a villain,

• 45:31Cassandra Yahnian?

  and it just doesn't care. It's leaping, it's flapping. I beat the trail with my poles, jabbing at the soft ground and holding my ground against this tiny enemy. Stop, get back. I hope you're reading this in the guttural voice I was channeling in the moment. I don't know if I could do that, but stop, get back. I'm sick of running from the grouse. My frenzied swinging and screaming have finally startled the bird not into turning and running away, but it's at least done enough that this time, when I turn on my heels and run down the trail from it, it does not pursue. I pause to catch my breath and check that I am not being followed. I see the grouse still in the middle of the trail, but I'm relieved

• 46:13Cassandra Yahnian?

  that it just appears to be watching now from a distance and not chasing. I survived. For a while, every rustle in the bushes has me on edge, the grouse stalking all along. But of course, I eventually settle and the rest of the hike continues gorgeously without any further angry bird attacks along the way. Still wish I had seen a wolf. To be clear, I never actually hit the grouse with my trekking poles. I just wanted it to think I would. Perhaps it knew to call me on my bluff. Also, northern Minnesota is home to the most visited wilderness area in the US, and another very special place to me and the wildlife that call it home, the Boundary Waters. These lands and waters, some of the cleanest in the country,

• 46:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  are now under threat of copper mining agreements. If plans go through to mine around the Boundary Watershed, the ecosystem becomes more susceptible to toxic pollution, water quality is threatened, and outdoor recreation in the area will be harmed as well. This is a haven for hunters, fishers, canoeists, as well as incredible wildlife, even including bully grouse. Please, please, please support Friends of the Boundary Waters and spread awareness to this cause. Happy trails, stay safe, and watch your back. Lauren.

• 47:28Cassandra Yahnian?

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• 48:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  left and right. Even better, Shop is giving away $1 million in Shop Cash. 1,000 shoppers will each win $1,000 in Shop Cash to spend on things that they love. And that's a pretty incredible way to kick off the holiday shopping season. Enter to win the $1 million Shop Cash giveaway from now until November 1st. Just go to shop.com. There are so many ways to win. That's shop.com. Shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at shop.com.

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• 49:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thanks for the shout out at the end. I think it's important to continually remind people that...

• 49:22Danielle LaRock?

  These places receive a lot of threats consistently. And I think like they'll come up in waves, you know, like with Big Bend in the wall and then the Boundary Waters with the mining. And it's kind of like a flash in the pan on social media. And then it kind of fizzles out into the next thing, but it's a continuous issue. So thank you for reminding us and glad you survived.

• 49:48Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, glad you survived the grass attack.

• 49:51Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah.

• 49:51Cassandra Yahnian?

  They mean business.

• 49:53Danielle LaRock?

  The trekking pole whipping around thing is very funny. It's like, don't make me hurt you. I don't want to hurt you. It's like you're crying. You're like, I love animals.

• 50:05Cassandra Yahnian?

  Like throwing.

• 50:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  Love animals so much. Get away.

• 50:12Danielle LaRock?

  Okay, uh, my last story is titled hometown curse? Question mark. Dear Danielle and Cassie, love the podcast. It keeps me company in the lab. I thought this story could be a trail tale. It doesn't occur in a national park or on a single trail, but it is closely related to public lands. I have a bizarre track record. Certain types of research instruments glitch and fail on me more than anyone else. A computer literally died mid-test just this morning in a way no one has ever seen before. My supervisors and colleagues have watched it happen so often without any user error that they have jokingly wondered if I am cursed. To which I reply with, yes, I am. I just don't know how to fix this one.

• 50:54Danielle LaRock?

  My first curse is related to my hometown, Grand Junction, Colorado. Grand Junction itself is not a national park or forest, but it is surrounded by them and integral to the story of the Manhattan Project National Historic Park. Additionally, Grand Junction is the quote unquote big city support for many traveling to canyon lands and arches as it has the largest population between Salt Lake City and Denver and is only an hour and a half away.

• 51:21Cassandra Yahnian?

  I feel like you are trying to, I feel like this writer is trying to link in national parks like we do. It's like, please let me tell this story. It's linked to a national park.

• 51:32Danielle LaRock?

  It's okay.

• 51:33Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's okay.

• 51:34Danielle LaRock?

  It's totally fine.

• 51:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  We're traumatized too. We get it.

• 51:37Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, wait, hold on. Next line. We love our public lands there. It's like, we, it's okay.

• 51:43Danielle LaRock?

  We believe you.

• 51:43Cassandra Yahnian?

  You're welcome here.

• 51:46Danielle LaRock?

  But tucked away in Grand Junction story is an enduring myth that anyone born there is cursed. Supposedly, this was done by the Ute tribe when they were forced from the valley Grand Junction is in due to settler expansion. While that would be understandable, there is no proof of it, and most signs point to the curse being fabricated much later. The curse goes that if you're born in the valley, you can never truly leave. You can try to move away, but circumstances will always drag you back unless you collect dirt from the mountains in the four cardinal directions. This would mean collecting dirt from the Colorado National Monument in the west, the Grand Mesa National Forest to the east,

• 52:27Danielle LaRock?

  the Little Book Cliffs Wild Horse Range to the north, and the Dominguez Escalante Conservation Area to the south, which are all public lands. Once you have said jar of dirt, like Captain Jack Sparrow, you can move freely. The catch? Gathering that dirt is highly discouraged and in one direction outright illegal. Almost no one actually collects the dirt. We just take our chances and try to leave. But despite the curse's questionable origins, the valley has a weird way of pulling people back. I used to be more of a skeptic, but the number of stories with absurd circumstances, including my own, makes me pause. I'll let you decide. In 2018, I moved abroad for a two-year graduate program.

• 53:11Danielle LaRock?

  I submitted my last final at the end of the first year in May of 2019 and started thinking about next steps. A week later, I got an email from the professor for my last final saying they didn't receive it. So I forwarded the successful submission confirmation to them along with the assignment, explaining that some glitch must have occurred. The professor graded it and said they would submit the grades. No one else in the class had this issue, but I figured everything was fine. Fast forward another week, I got an email from the scholarship office saying that I did not pass enough credits to maintain it and that it would be canceled for the next year. But here's the thing, I had taken enough credits. As it turned out, a completely separate technological glitch had blocked my final grade from syncing with the main.

• 53:55Danielle LaRock?

  System on their side. To their system, it looked like I had shortened my credits even though I had passed enough. That missing grade appeared in their system a couple of days after that scholarship email. But by the time we got that straightened out, the scholarship had been given to another student. Without that funding, I didn't have the financial proof required to secure my second year visa. I was forced to wrap up my research early, leave the country and finish my degree remotely. Eight months from that initial glitch, I landed back in Grand Junction in February of 2020. I spent the next one and a half years trying to leave, but the pandemic locked me in. It was mid 2021 when I was able to move away again and continue with my career.

• 54:38Danielle LaRock?

  Without those relatively small glitches, I likely would have kept my scholarship, secured my visa and continued my research. Sometimes a series of odd, specific events happen and sometimes it seems like a curse. But what can you do to continue on? When I returned to Grand Junction, my brothers and I reasoned that if the curse really existed, then it was not accounting for modern technology. Perhaps a jar of dirt could be digitized so that the curse could be satisfied without destroying nature. Today, I keep backed up photos of dirt from the four public lands around Grand Junction in my phone as a digital jar, just in case. And honestly, we had a lot of fun getting them. It has been over five years and I have not been dragged back since.

• 55:20Danielle LaRock?

  Now, if only I could find a way to make the research instruments happy too. Thanks for reading, Casey. What a unique solution.

• 55:31Danielle LaRock?

  Innovative.

• 55:33Danielle LaRock?

  They're just thinking on their feet and being like, you know what? I, I want to get out of here, but I don't, I need to leave no trace. You know, I can't be picking up things and I love it. I think that's great. I've never heard of the Grand Junction curse. Um, even though I've been through it a few times, it's really pretty out there. But you know, sometimes

• 55:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sorry, you're cursed.

• 55:55Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, sorry, you're cursed. Sometimes things feel like a curse, but maybe it's just a nice redirection. I hate to say that because everything happens for a reason is very grating to hear. And I feel like I just said that to you. So I apologize.

• 56:09Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, just sorry you're cursed. That sucks.

• 56:12Danielle LaRock?

  Yeah, what Cassie said.

• 56:16Cassandra Yahnian?

  Well, I have one last story as well. Mine is titled.

• 56:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  Sorry. Mine is. Excuse me. Excuse me. I'm speaking. Okay. Mine is titled, When My Mom Asked Me To Pray With Her. Hi Danielle and Cassie. First of all, I love the podcast. I've been listening for a few months. I'm a truck driver, formerly over the road, but currently driving a local route. And I have long hours and lots of time to listen to podcasts. This is the same consolation for the fact that my job often keeps me from enjoying the great outdoors. Thank you for keeping me company for all of the work that you do and for letting me live vicariously through your stories. The event at the center of this trail tale might make for an interesting full episode, complete with mysteries, cover ups, and conspiracy theories, but this is my very personal experience.

• 57:08Cassandra Yahnian?

  This was my first time in my memory that my mom asked me to pray, to really pray with her. After dinner on July 17th, 1996, my mother took my sister, then six years old, and me, then 12 years old, and our grandmother to visit the ocean at Smith Point Beach. Smith Point County Park is located in Shirley, New York on Fire Island and is part of the Fire Island National Seashore, which I believe falls under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service. We lived very close by. It was a 10 minute drive. We often went to the ocean on mild evenings when my dad was working night shifts so that the house would be quiet and he could get a couple hours of uninterrupted sleep. My sister and I got to play in the sand and look for shells and use some pent up energy.

• 57:53Cassandra Yahnian?

  And my mom and grandmother got a quiet walk and to enjoy the onshore breeze. The sun sank low in the sky and the mosquitoes started biting, so against my and my sister's protests, we left the beach and drove home. As we were walking up the concrete side steps of the house, on the north side of the house, opposite from the ocean to the south, a massive explosion rang out. I'd never heard anything so loud. The door and windows rattled, the iron railing we were holding on to vibrated, and the four of us instinctively ducked. I remember it feeling like it reverberated in my ribs. We shook it off and my mom suggested that someone had really good fireworks. They might be illegal in New York, but that never stopped anyone in our town.

• 58:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  After my dad left for work and my grandma and my sister and I gone off to bed, my mom was watching the late news. She came into my room to see if I was still awake. Of course, I was, nose in a book. She told me that she found out on the news that the explosion we heard earlier was not fireworks. She told me what happened and then asked me to pray with her. That night, my mom and I prayed for the souls of the people who had surely been killed when TW8 Flight 800 exploded over the Atlantic Ocean 10 miles south of us and we prayed for the safety of the people braving the dark Atlantic waters to rescue or recover them. We also thanked God, the angels, and our loved ones who'd gone before us

• 59:20Cassandra Yahnian?

  that we left the beach when we did, because if we had stayed another 10 minutes, like my sister and I were begging to, we would have seen the explosion. Smith Point County Park was closed for quite some time after the crash as some of the debris and part of the body washed up on the sand. Memorial service were held at Smith Point Beach. Mourners placed roses in the sand and let the waves wash over them. That image will never leave my mind. Today, the park is home to a permanent, beautiful memorial for those killed in the crash. The official cause of the explosion was poorly insulated wiring in or near the fuel tanks, which arced and ignited the jet fuel vapor. Still, conspiracies abound.

• 1:00:03Cassandra Yahnian?

  I remember people on the news being interviewed and saying they saw something go from the surface of, out of the ocean up to the air before the plane exploded. I remember there being home video footage from someone filming a birthday party, inadvertently catching in the background something go from the ocean upwards before the plane blew up. I scoured the internet and I cannot find any of it. I know memory is not to be trusted. Eyewitness accounts are statistically the least accurate, but there are many people, even 29 years later, who don't believe the N S T S B report. I'm one of them. I moved away a decade ago to landlocked country in a different state, but that beach will always be bittersweet for me.

• 1:00:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Enjoy the view, but remember what you saw, even if it doesn't match the official story. Best regards, Casey.

• 1:00:54Danielle LaRock?

  It's a tough one.

• 1:00:55Cassandra Yahnian?

  That is a tough one.

• 1:00:56Danielle LaRock?

  I don't know anything about that incident.

• 1:00:58Cassandra Yahnian?

  Me either.

• 1:00:59Danielle LaRock?

  At all.

• 1:01:00Cassandra Yahnian?

  This is the first time I've heard of it. Yeah.

• 1:01:02Danielle LaRock?

  Did it say a year?

• 1:01:04Cassandra Yahnian?

  Nineteen ninety-six.

• 1:01:06Danielle LaRock?

  Oh, okay. Yeah, I wonder. Maybe I'll ask my stepdad if he knows anything about that.

• 1:01:11Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:12Danielle LaRock?

  Air traffic control. Oh, something that'll never leave you, that's for sure. Um, and we hate to leave you on kind of a sad note, but.

• 1:01:23Cassandra Yahnian?

  But that's the way the cookie crumbles.

• 1:01:26Danielle LaRock?

  And if you're an outsider, we don't have to leave you right now because.

• 1:01:30Cassandra Yahnian?

  Yeah, because we have two more stories.

• 1:01:32Danielle LaRock?

  That's right. Mine is titled A Fatal Love Triangle.

• 1:01:35Cassandra Yahnian?

  And mine's titled The Great Adirondack Flood.

• 1:01:38Danielle LaRock?

  All right. Well, I'm ready to get into, it feels spicy.

• 1:01:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  And dark.

• 1:01:45Danielle LaRock?

  A love triangle. Well, that too, but love triangles always aren't gonna work out. You know, if we've learned anything from oxygen.

• 1:01:54Cassandra Yahnian?

  It's true.

• 1:01:55Danielle LaRock?

  So we'll see what this is about. Um, but thanks, everyone, for hanging out with us and being here for another Trail Tale. Uh, episode. Cassie told you in the beginning how to submit stories. Please submit them. Um, we are always looking for funny, unique. Uh, stories that keep us guessing, keep us on our toes and laughing. That's kind of the best part about this. Uh, these stories because we get to laugh when usually we, in main episodes, it doesn't always feel right to do.

• 1:02:27Cassandra Yahnian?

  Even though we do sometimes.

• 1:02:28Danielle LaRock?

  So God bless us this summer. All right. Anyway.

• 1:02:35Danielle LaRock?

  Um, all right. Thanks, everyone. We'll see everyone next week. In the meantime, enjoy the view.

• 1:02:40Cassandra Yahnian?

  But watch your back.

• 1:02:41Danielle LaRock?

  Bye.

• 1:02:42Cassandra Yahnian?

  Bye.

• 1:02:45Cassandra Yahnian?

  Thanks for joining us for another episode. We hope you learned something new and have another location to put on your list. If you want more NPAD content, make sure to follow along with our adventures on all socials at National Park After Dark. For more stories just like this one with the added bonus of exclusive content, you can join us on Patreon or Apple subscriptions. If you prefer to watch our episodes, head over to our YouTube channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite listening platform.

• 1:03:22Cassandra Yahnian?

  I work in the outdoors industry and am an avid lover of our public lands. Sorry.

• 1:03:30Speaker 04

  I wonder how many times we say sorry every episode because we say it all the time.

• 1:03:37Cassandra Yahnian?

  We just feel bad.

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:03:39Cassandra Yahnian?

  I've been a big.

• 1:03:41Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 1:03:44Cassandra Yahnian?

  Okay, my next one is titled, When My Mom Asked Me To Pray With Her. Cater, I'm speaking.

• 1:03:51Speaker 04

  Sorry.

• 1:03:54Speaker 04

  It's because I'm moving him and he's getting fresh.

• 1:03:59Speaker 05

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• 1:04:42Speaker 05

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