Mahomes or Allen (Again???) and a Clippers-Heavy Mailbag With Nick Wright

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Nick Wright to debate whether Josh Allen is the best QB in the league and the Chiefs’ ceiling this season before diving into a Clippers-heavy mailbag. (0:00) Intro (2:26) A Josh Allen and Chiefs discussion (36:24) Mailbag Host: Bill Simmons Guest: Nick Wright Producers: Chia Hao Tat and Eduardo Ocampo Download Uber Eats and order now. http://ubereats.com The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan to learn more about the resources and helplines Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bill Simmons?

  This episode is brought to you by PayPal. The holiday rush is coming and you can get ahead of it with PayPal. Shop your favorite online stores with PayPal this season like eBay for collectibles, Fanatics for teen gear, Walmart for tech. Check out the flexibility to pay now or pay later and split your payments with Pay in Four with no interest, no late fees. Shop now with PayPal. Paying for subject to approval. Learn more at paypal.com slash paying for PayPal, Inc., NMLS 910457.

• 0:39Bill Simmons?

  The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I am not on the rewatchables this week because I handed it over to the fantasy guys, Craig, Danny and Danny, and they did Talladega Nights. Craig is also the producer of the rewatchable. So every once in a while, we let him get in the car and drive it around. Very fun podcast. Go check it out. I am doing four podcasts this week. If you missed me and Sal, we did Guest the Lions, we did our NFL Futures Draft, we did a really funny parent corner. Great start. Running it back, we're gonna do a mailbag with Nick Wright and then on Wednesday and Thursday night, I'm gonna be live on Netflix right after the game with this podcast after Pat's Seahawks. And then on Thursday, Joe House and I are gonna be doing our Week One NFL, but we're

• 1:22Bill Simmons?

  gonna do it after Rams Niners. So the Netflix, the post-game show, I think it's gonna go a half hour. And after the post-game show, they're gonna throw it to us and House and I will be on live talking about the game and we're gonna do our Ringer 107 picks and the whole bunch of things. I love football week. This is the best. I have my fantasy draft tomorrow. The Red Sox are on another winning streak.

• 1:47Bill Simmons?

  It's just good, good times in sports right now. Hopefully the Patriots will sign. They're all pro cornerback. We'll see how that goes. All right, taking a break. Pearl Jam and then our friend Nick Wright, mailbag time. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by FanDuel. The NFL is here and it's the most rewarding season ever on FanDuel with the all-time FanDuel Rewards Club. Every eligible bet can earn you points. Win or lose, you still get points. The more points, the bigger the rewards you can unlock. Head to FanDuel.com slash BS to start earning with FanDuel Rewards Club. 21-plus select states or 18-plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming.

• 2:26Bill Simmons?

  Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat. Connecticut.

• 3:00Bill Simmons?

  Nick Wright is here. You see him with my buddy Kevin Wouts on First Things First every day on FS1. He's also the host of the What's Right Podcast. Competing podcast, but not really, because we're all friends.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Wow, yeah, that's one that that is, it's also, you know, also not competing because I think you have the most popular sports podcast in the world. So I don't, so I also don't consider you a competitor, but I appreciate you mentioning. I do with my son.

• 3:25Bill Simmons?

  There's room for everybody. Everybody has pods. Yeah, there's room for all of us.

• 3:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, great to see you.

• 3:31Bill Simmons?

  You were supposed to come on during the summer to do a mailbag with me and the timing never worked out. You got riled up a couple of times. You got mad that I wasn't wearing a seatbelt.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  I did. I sent you, so I preempted. So here's the thing, because you always talk about getting aggregated.

• 3:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  And I don't, um, sometimes the aggregation, you know, is good in regard like it's almost free publicity, like some of the Clippers or whatever. It's like, oh, I didn't put that out there. And sometimes I say certain things that I'm like, we're not gonna put this out because I don't wanna be publicizing, you know, this shot I'm taking at someone. But I anticipate someone will put it out on my behalf and then I'm like, hey, I didn't publicize it, I just said it.

• 4:16Bill Simmons?

  Right. Um. It's like a no look pass. You're like, hey.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. Like, oh, I mean, I said it, but I wasn't like boosting it, but I knew it'd get boosted. Um, but I was worried that there was going to be like a headline, Nick Wright eviscerates Bill Simmons for the seatbelt thing. So I, I did a front run on it, which is I immediately clipped it and texted it to you. So you knew, even if you never watched it, what I was saying was in good, my heart was in the right place. And that was before I knew you can't see anymore because your contacts.

• 4:48Bill Simmons?

  This week, it sounds like Wednesday. Wednesday, I'm gonna be able to see. We'll see how I can read. You're gonna do a mailbag with me. I'll be able, we'll see if I can read later when we do this. I'm glad, I'm glad you're worried about me, though. I'm worried about you because you, once again, once again, you're just all in on this Chiefs season with all these different variables. You wanted to argue about Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes yet again.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  Well, here's what I want to, it's not even about Josh Allen versus Patrick Mahomes.

• 5:16Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  It's, I just wanna ask you this.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  In your entire life as a football fan, because do you think, I think right now Josh Allen is the majority opinion best quarterback in the league. I don't think it's consensus. I don't think it's unanimous, but I think it was Family Feud, he would get the most votes.

• 5:37Bill Simmons?

  Safest bet to be a really good quarterback game after game.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  Right. And on most quarterback lists, you did it before the season last year and I was aghast. But at most lists or pyramids, whatever, he's number one. Has there ever been another time in the history of the NFL where the consensus, if you will, number one quarterback was someone who had never been to a Super Bowl, had never been first-team All-Pro, was not the reigning MVP, was not, didn't have the most, second-most, third-most MVPs of any active player, had, was not coming off the best season of his career, and in fact, in the most recent game he played, was arguably the most damaging

• 6:25Speaker 01

  loss of his career. Has there ever been another time where a quarterback with that resume, it's like, he's the best? I would argue, no. And so it's just baffling to me that people, it feels to me like the, the, the cycle with Josh Allen is every year, the hype gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and then he gets outplayed by the opposing quarterback in a playoff loss. And for about a week, people are like, oh, man, Josh could have played better. And then we're right back to, you know what? Josh Allen, if only he had, I don't know, the rushing champ. Well, he had that, the better defense, well, he had top-five defense four years in a row, the best offensive line in football.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  And so it's, that part is baffling to me and I don't know a historical corollary for it.

• 7:12Bill Simmons?

  It's really interesting because if you go back, I guess maybe Marino would have been the last one, but he did make a Super Bowl his second year.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Snap went to a Super Bowl and was like coming off like the, he was MVP that year and was defending and it's like, oh, my God, the sky's the limit. And then, then Montana overtook him. I will ask one other Josh Allen question for your listeners and viewers who aren't driving. If you're driving, don't close your eyes. Um, or if you're, but for everyone else, if I say, hey, what's Josh Allen's signature win in the NFL?

• 7:48Speaker 01

  Well, think of it.

• 7:49Bill Simmons?

  It's the loss. It's the 13-second game.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  His signature win's a loss. His signature win is a round-two loss five years ago.

• 7:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Five, his best, his high watermark is a divisional round loss from a half decade ago. And so it's like, there's a lot of guys who are far, much further down the pyramid that we can point to a signature win or two or four. And Josh's best, like, he, he is the greatest wild card round quarterback I've ever seen. At, he is. I mean, the wild card round, like he, the, if the, you know, nobody has benefited more, statistically speaking, from the NFL adding a seventh playoff team because they're the two seed every year.

• 8:37Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 8:37Speaker 01

  He plays Mac Jones or Mason Rudolph or Skyler Thompson.

• 8:40Bill Simmons?

  This is your guy LeBron. This is, this helps LeBron the most, all these extra playoff games that he got to play.

• 8:47Speaker 01

  Okay, well, that's fair.

• 8:48Bill Simmons?

  All these first-round series that he boned up on, if we're gonna do that. I mean, Jordan, Jordan didn't have as many first-round, like, you know, whipping bags that he could have gone through.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Okay, except Jordan and LeBron, the playoffs were 16 teams for both of them. They was the same number.

• 9:03Bill Simmons?

  If you compare LeBron, but if you compare LeBron versus like Bill Russell, who, Bill Russell's playing 11 playoff games a year, like, he's never gonna have as many.

• 9:12Speaker 01

  That part's, yes, we're doing, yeah, or, you know, Babe Ruth versus Barry, or, you know, somebody.

• 9:17Bill Simmons?

  Well, wait, so let me unpack what you said here, because I think there's two really fun things about this. One is that, and I, I don't know how I became a Josh Allen on the Josh Allen camp, because I don't even think the Bills are gonna be good this year. I did pick them to win the Super Bowl last year and they didn't. But this did, we hit all the beats of this with Manning versus Brady in the 2000s.

• 9:37Speaker 01

  I know.

• 9:37Bill Simmons?

  And I was hardcore on Brady. Hardcore. I was like, what are we doing? This is why we have playoff games. But part of the problem is that Manning was really coming up short in those playoff games to the point that it started to feel Karl Malone-ish. And then in the, in round 05, it started to flip and then he finally got the Super Bowl. But that's the last time I can remember this happening other than, um, Mike Trout. But that's baseball. We make excuses for baseball because it's like, well, it's 25 players. I think Josh is in this, it's almost like we have that group with the superstars where we do the yeah, buts. And it's like, yeah, he's great, yeah, but with Josh, it's the other way.

• 10:18Bill Simmons?

  It's like a reverse yeah, but where it's like, it's not his fault, it's everyone else's fault. Don't blame him, he's doing everything he can, which is the best place to be as an athlete, where you get no blame at all. It's every, literally everyone else's fault.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  I mean, they, they had the god dog rushing champ last year and I gotta watch Get Up being like, can they get him some help? I'm like, James Cook's pretty good. They, um, the prior, you know, people are like, well, you know, look at the receiving courts. Like, well, he had a number one with Stepan Diggs and they had a falling out. They, the, the defense, he had great regular season defenses that Mahomes eviscerated, so they became bad postseason defenses, I guess. But the, here's my other, the, the Brady-Manning thing, that's honestly closer to if, if Patrick is Brady in this instance, but Patrick also has multiple MVPs. And Brady's not at the time.

• 11:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Um, Manning would be Lamar. Lamar is the more decorated regular season player between Lamar and Josh. And Lamar does come up short in the postseason, Mike.

• 11:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, but did anyone ever think Lamar was the best quarterback in the league? I don't think there was a single season where we felt like this is the guy. This is the bar to get to because Mahomes or Brady was always there.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  So I agree with that, but I'm Lamar. Lamar has more, has three first team all pros.

• 11:37Bill Simmons?

  I know, but it's regular, the regular season stuff, I think versus playoffs. It's the two different seasons.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  So that's how I feel. I totally agree with you, which is why I don't understand some of the Josh Allen hagiography. I think I mispronounced that word.

• 11:52Bill Simmons?

  Hagiography? Hagiography? You're asking the wrong guy if you mispronounce the word.

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm definitely asking the wrong guy.

• 11:58Bill Simmons?

  I'm not helping you here.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  I, because here is how, and we don't have to spend a ton of time on this, but I, I get fired up. Post 13 seconds game. Here is the four, the way Josh's season has ended, the four years. 2022, at home, round two.

• 12:17Bill Simmons?

  Really tough.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Against the Bengals.

• 12:19Bill Simmons?

  Tough one.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Gets beat up, like they lose 27 to 10. Okay.

• 12:25Bill Simmons?

  Ass kicking.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  2023, at home against a Chiefs team that nobody believed in, that people thought Tua and the Dolphins could beat the previous round. Plays well, but gets outplayed by Patrick.

• 12:41Bill Simmons?

  Didn't make the biggest, biggest series of the game, didn't make the place.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  Got the ball, down three.

• 12:46Bill Simmons?

  Had the ball with a chance to win it.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Had a ball with a chance to win it into it. 2024, on the road against Kansas City, down three with the ball, three and a half minutes left. Everything in front of you, perfect scenario of go score, Patrick won't get the ball. They got 17 yards and ended up punting. Or in no turnover on downs, pardon me, doesn't do it. And then last year, the path to the Super Bowl is beat Bo Nix and then go to New England where you had just won a month prior.

• 13:20Bill Simmons?

  By the way, you never should have beaten Jacksonville. You got through them somehow because Jacksonville gacked the game. You're lucky to even be in round two.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  But he, he did in the Jacksonville game, he did play great and I give him credit. And in that Buffalo, in that Denver game, had the single worst playoff turnover from a star quarterback we've seen in a decade. The one before the half, two more egregious ones.

• 13:44Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 13:45Speaker 01

  And then, and this people, another thing people forget, Denver got the ball first in overtime and Buffalo got a stop.

• 13:53Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 13:53Speaker 01

  Ball in overtime.

• 13:55Bill Simmons?

  You had three points.

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Go get a field goal and you are playing what's left of the Patriots to go to the Super Bowl. And you don't get it done and you have four turnover playoff game and your stock's never been higher. That's the part I don't get.

• 14:09Bill Simmons?

  Here's the problem. This reminds me of the year after Jordan retired. When we had the lockout season, do you remember who won the MVP during the lockout season?

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Karl Malone, his second of two, or yes.

• 14:22Bill Simmons?

  Malone edged out Alonzo Mourning for the MVP, right? And everybody's like, what's going on? Should we even hand out this award and Karl Malone wins it? And it was just basically like this vacancy void until Duncan wins in the finals. We're like, oh, okay, maybe he's the best guy. Then the next year Shaq runs a block. It's like, oh, Shaq, maybe he's the best guy. Duncan takes it back and I just feel like there's a void and we kind of don't know who to put in this best QB. Cause Mahomes got hurt and sucked last year for what he usually is.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  Correct, so that the problem, the reason is because Patrick had the worst, you know, the Patrick season last year is so interesting. Because nobody remembers this.

• 15:06Bill Simmons?

  Well, people think he hurt his ACL in September now, now that, now that we're a year removed, they forget he, there was six and nine when he got hurt.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  The, six and eight when he got hurt, but in the game, they, they were six and seven going into the game. They lost that game where he got hurt. But, but here's the thing that I think you probably like, the Chiefs last year at, after week eight, were the favorites to win the Super Bowl. Patrick was the favorite for league MVP and at week eight, Patrick led the NFL in yards and second in touchdowns. And then.

• 15:40Bill Simmons?

  I like how you call him Patrick, like your college roommate sort of.

• 15:43Speaker 01

  I mean, close personal friend, but the people don't, he also, his, his mother doesn't like when you call him Pat. I'm calling him Patrick, I'm paying, you know, it's.

• 15:52Bill Simmons?

  Oh, it's like an Edward Norton thing. Yeah.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know that, but yes.

• 15:55Bill Simmons?

  Don't call him Ed, he's Edward.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Okay, um, then week nine up before, until he got hurt, those next six games.

• 16:03Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Were the worst game, worst stretch of his entire career. He played terribly.

• 16:08Bill Simmons?

  And all the talking heads like Nick Ray, making excuses for him left and right.

• 16:13Speaker 01

  Well, you know, it's hard to go to three straight Super Bowls.

• 16:16Bill Simmons?

  Andy Reid's fault, where are the skill guys?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  I didn't blame Andy Reid.

• 16:19Bill Simmons?

  Kelsey looked slow, the running game, they have the worst running backs in the league. They missed a couple of O-line picks. I did this all with Brady a couple of times in the 2010s.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Fair to say that I, that both of these things are true. They had an offensive line ravaged by injury. The receiving core was disastrous. They were absolutely exhausted from the three straight trips to the Super Bowl.

• 16:46Bill Simmons?

  It's the Warriors, it's the 2015 to 19 Warriors where you're playing all these extra games. They finally catch up to you and your coach probably should be sent out to pasture at this point was the other issue.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  And by the way, just like, just because you were talking, you already invoked him once, like you're talking about, yeah, those four straight finals really, or five straight finals really wore down the Warriors. Imagine how great you'd have to be to go to eight straight and just be at your best at the end of every season. But that's neither here nor there. Um, and so they, Patrick played, yeah, LeBron just went to eight straight, just went to eight straight.

• 17:18Bill Simmons?

  Against the Eastern Conference?

• 17:19Speaker 01

  Against, oh, okay.

• 17:20Bill Simmons?

  I rooted for some of the teams they played in, in round three, they were terrible.

• 17:26Bill Simmons?

  Jay Crowder guarding him in the conference finals.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Okay, I mean, my God, you loved those Celtics team, the young Celtics, my God.

• 17:33Bill Simmons?

  We almost beat them with Terry Rozier and Ricky Jason Tatum and.

• 17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:38Bill Simmons?

  I still don't know Marcus Morris, I still don't know what happened.

• 17:41Speaker 01

  And then LeBron said to, um, George Hill and Timothy Mozgov, come on, come, come with me, I got you.

• 17:47Bill Simmons?

  Climb on my back.

• 17:49Speaker 01

  Get on my back. Um, but no, so listen, so it is, the void is, the answer to the best quarterback alive question should just be Patrick. Because he has so many more accomplishments than these other guys. But because he played so poorly, the final two months of last year, and he's coming off the ACL, it feels up in the air.

• 18:09Bill Simmons?

  I want to see how it moves, don't you? Don't you want to see what happens with five minutes left in a fourth quarter and third and eight, when he's got to scramble for a first down?

• 18:17Speaker 01

  All of it is fascinating, like the, what, what, where he, what he looks like post injury. Because this is something we talked about last year.

• 18:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  That the, the corollaries of the 2007 Patriots were a game away from being the greatest team of all time, when, winning their fourth championship.

• 18:39Bill Simmons?

  They were two plus minutes away.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Okay, sure, yeah. No, so plays away, but they, they, they walked into that game knowing if we win it.

• 18:48Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 18:48Speaker 01

  We are the greatest team of all time and it's their fourth ring. They lost and then the next year Brady got his knee blown out.

• 18:55Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 18:56Speaker 01

  The 2024 Chiefs were a game away from being the greatest team ever, that winning three Super Bowls in a row. They lose it, they lost very differently than you guys. The next year, their quarterback gets his knee blown out. It's, it's scary. What's scary as a Chiefs fan is that those following two seasons are the kind of forgotten part of the Pats dynasty. Oh, nine, you guys were 10 and six and mediocre and 2010, you were awesome, but then lost to Mark Sanchez in your first playoff game.

• 19:30Bill Simmons?

  Got our asses kicked. We got our asses kicked in two straight playoff games. Yeah, I've, I think those two seasons are really instructive for this Mahomes thing. And I, I've talked about this on the pod before. Cause you basically, you're at the end of whatever era that was. And what was great about what Brady and Belichick did was they figured out how to create the second era, which was around the tight ends and, and Belichick actually hitting some draft picks on the defense. But Brady was so good, they were always 10 and six, 12 and four, whatever it was. They always had a top five offense, no matter what was going on. And they were able to patch it together until the talent showed up. And it feels like you're in this right now. I'm, I'm, I wanted the whole summer, I was ready to go under on the Chiefs.

• 20:13Bill Simmons?

  This is one of the reasons I want to have you on, because I, I really, we haven't really talked about Mahomes on this podcast that much.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 20:19Bill Simmons?

  I wanted to go under on them. I felt like this was a transition year. I didn't know what I was getting out of Reid. You missed a couple of drafts. You had the, the Rice thing, I don't know what you're getting out of him this year. I don't know if worthy is good. I don't know if Kelsey's going to be in, in, you know, even remotely the same anymore, et cetera, et cetera. And when, when it came, like we did the futures draft last night, me and Sal. And I was gonna do these, Fandel has these bets, like, this team will win more than that team. And I had two Chiefs bets and I pulled them. Cause I was like, you know what? I just, I could just see the Chiefs somehow going 11 and 6, 10 and 7 anyway. To me, it's just a stay away. I don't know what's gonna happen. I don't even really have a strong opinion on it anymore.

• 21:01Speaker 01

  So I, listen, what, if you're a Chiefs fan, the, the hope for this season is the comp is 2022, post-trading Tyree. So 2022, they were coming off the indefensible playoff loss to Cincinnati, when they just blew it in the second half of that game.

• 21:22Bill Simmons?

  You know what happened in that game.

• 21:23Speaker 01

  What, that Patrick was concussed?

• 21:25Bill Simmons?

  Patrick got concussed, like, that's what happened.

• 21:29Speaker 01

  I mean, it, Keith, let me, listen, I'm not as comfortable saying that as you. What I will say is, we've seen him play-

• 21:36Bill Simmons?

  I don't know why it's a bad thing to say it, though. There was a clear before and after in that game, when he got hit in the head and he was never the same and was the most, made some of the most inexplicable decisions he's made in his career, all over the span of an hour and a half and blew the game.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  We've never seen a half like that before or since.

• 21:54Bill Simmons?

  He definitely was hurt or compromised or something. He was, something was wrong.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  And so, they, you know, they had, the year before, they got blown out in the Super Bowl. Then they lose to Cincinnati. Then they trade Tyree Kill. And people were like, okay, you know, Chiefs, good for you. You won the one Super Bowl, you're like, you're now in a different time. They went all in on this young defense and a wide receiver core, where every single guy that was in that wide receiving core is out of the league now, except for Sky Moore, who's a punt returner.

• 22:23Bill Simmons?

  That's what the Patriots had the same thing, where you, you go back and look at some of the receivers, like, where are they? They're gone.

• 22:29Speaker 01

  And that young defense got better and better as the year went on. Patrick was unreal that year, throwing to nobodies, but with a good offensive line. And they turned it around like that. They, they spent three picks in the top 40 on guys to defensively impact the passer. The top corner in football, Peter Woods, the D tackle, R. Mason Thomas, the D end. They are rolling the dice that Josh Simmons is going to be healthy and available for the majority of this season. The reporting this morning that he might miss week one is terrifying for the Chiefs.

• 23:04Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no. I didn't like you anyway in that game.

• 23:07Speaker 01

  And so, it, so potentially not having him, your left tackle for week one against Denver, Patrick's first game back is concerning. But what the Chiefs, rightly or wrongly, what they believe is, if Patrick has a solid offensive line and the defense can get off the field on third down, the rest of it, he'll take care of the rest of it with, and this is the part that I think has been overlooked, in how, what's happened to Patrick's numbers the last couple of years. Teams, certainly last year and a little bit the year before, it did not matter what formation Kansas City was in. Teams were like, run it all you want. You guys can't hurt us running the ball. We are just playing the pass.

• 23:49Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  And that's why I, I think the Kenneth Walker addition changes things. Not because Kenneth Walker's a special player, but because if you just do six men in the box, like teams have been doing it to Kansas City for two years, they'll be able to punish you there. And does that clean things up for Patrick a bit?

• 24:07Bill Simmons?

  So it's like having a center where you, you get a really good three-point shooter, to give him a little more space and room to operate.

• 24:16Speaker 01

  But they are also, here's where they're also similar to your Pats. They're not, you know, big spenders. They're not, they don't do void years.

• 24:24Bill Simmons?

  Well, we're the cheapest. We're the Bengals about the PR.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  You guys won't even pay Christian Gonzalez.

• 24:29Bill Simmons?

  When he, when his agent is the same agent as Wetherspoon, who got paid six weeks ago. What are we doing?

• 24:36Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable that you guys won't pay Christian Gonzalez.

• 24:40Bill Simmons?

  He's so cheap. And, and nobody wants to talk about it, cause we've won so many Super Bowls and, and he kept the Patriots in New England. Right? We owe him a lot. But I don't understand why he's this cheap with this stuff. And we're compared to how the Eagles are always like, pushing the envelope, spending, spending, spending, looking for every nook and cranny. And the Pats are the opposite. He's just pocketing money.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  The Gonzalez deal should have been the easiest deal in the history of sports.

• 25:07Bill Simmons?

  I don't even know what the rationale is. They're like, they're so far apart. It's like, every guy would kill to have Gonzalez. Every team would kill to have him.

• 25:15Speaker 01

  And same draft, same position, same agent. It's like, okay, here's Wetherspoon's deal. We're gonna add 2%, so he's now the highest. And it's done. The terms, whatever the agent agreed to for Wetherspoon, would be agreeable for Gonzalez.

• 25:31Bill Simmons?

  I'm worried they're gonna trade him.

• 25:34Speaker 01

  That would be-

• 25:35Bill Simmons?

  I'm not kidding. I, I'm honestly, I'm, I'm prepared for anything with this, because clearly they didn't want to get the deal done. And I don't know what to expect. Who the, who the F knows?

• 25:46Speaker 01

  So I don't, so can we, before we do mailbag, can I ask you a Pats question?

• 25:51Bill Simmons?

  Well, I had one more Chiefs thing for you.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Sure, yeah, go, please.

• 25:54Bill Simmons?

  I just think the Kelsey thing is a huge part of this. Just the fact that he got old and he's had a full NFL career and he's going to the Hall of Fame. It's one of the best tight ends of all time.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  The best, but that's okay, go ahead.

• 26:05Bill Simmons?

  Well, he's definitely not, cause he's, he was a C-plus blocker, C-minus.

• 26:09Speaker 01

  So have you put-

• 26:10Bill Simmons?

  I like blocking with my tight ends.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  I understand.

• 26:13Bill Simmons?

  Gronk is the most talented, best tight end of all time. Gronk is the best ever. No, he just is, though. Gronk is the best ever.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  Hold on, do you like playoff production?

• 26:23Bill Simmons?

  Is Kelsey receiver or tight end? Was he a receiver that lined up as a tight end or was he actually a tight end?

• 26:28Speaker 01

  Well, so here's the thing. Amongst receivers and tight ends, he has the most playoff everything. Yards, catches, touchdowns, except for Jerry Lawrence.

• 26:38Bill Simmons?

  He was great. But my question now for 2026, especially after watching him last year, and he got married, like, I, I just-

• 26:47Speaker 01

  Why is this he got married thing all of a sudden gonna hurt him on the field?

• 26:51Bill Simmons?

  It's planning a wedding, it's got 1,500 people there. Did you get to go to the wedding?

• 26:55Speaker 01

  That maybe hurt him last year. That's actually an argument as to why, it's like, you-

• 27:00Bill Simmons?

  Were you there? You were there, weren't you?

• 27:03Speaker 01

  I didn't, no, I didn't say that. I should do to you what you did to Zach. Um, no, I didn't go. I wasn't there. Um, the, but let me ask you, your argument is planning the wedding is a, a drag. Let me agree with that. That's now off his shoulders. Now it's done. Now he's got more time.

• 27:20Bill Simmons?

  Doesn't want to play football really that much anymore.

• 27:23Speaker 01

  I don't think he doesn't want to play football. I think his wife wants him to play football. I think that this is Kevin Wild's take, that Taylor, that, that, Kevin Wild's take is life is high school. And Taylor Swift in high school was, you know, the band girl or what, like, didn't, it didn't have-

• 27:43Bill Simmons?

  She's in drama classes.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  Yes, all those things. And so, there was a part of her that always wanted, you know, to date the football star. And now she's an adult and she's like, I can date the football star. And they fell in love. And so the, when people are like, Taylor's gonna, Taylor's gonna want him to retire, Wild's take is, no, the opposite. She wants him to keep playing.

• 28:08Bill Simmons?

  She loves sitting in the seats.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Yes, she loves seeing her, her husband now.

• 28:12Bill Simmons?

  By the way, I was reminded of one of the great Kevin Wild's takes. I was at dinner with Dave Jacoby, two weeks ago.

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Shout out Jacoby.

• 28:20Bill Simmons?

  And one of Wild's is saying, you know, when people order and like, you order like, whatever, like, a smash burger, you know, the strip steak, whatever. And then the other person at the table or the two people are like, they don't want to get the strip steak, cause you just ordered it, so like, I'll get the chicken instead. And Wild's is like, I actually want to order what everyone else ordered, because then we can talk about the order, cause we're both eating it. And it's a bonding experience. We both had the chicken, we're eating the chicken and we're like, is this chicken delicious? It sure is. And he thinks it brings people closer together and that when everyone has different orders, it keeps people apart. It's, it's a classic Wild steak.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  He has a lot of restaurant takes.

• 29:03Bill Simmons?

  He really does.

• 29:04Speaker 01

  He wants more towers. He wants more things on towers.

• 29:08Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, when Wild has a, if, if you ever have a first things first restaurant, it will just be all towers.

• 29:14Speaker 01

  So what is interesting about KW is, he is, he, so he has all these great, you know, he's this mag, oh, you know what? Forget this. I'm gonna do, he's gonna be so mad at me, but I don't care.

• 29:29Bill Simmons?

  Anything that embarrasses him before the NFL season, I'm in.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  I can't believe I'm gonna tell this story on the air, on the most popular podcast in the world. Cause he doesn't really do, um, like, group dinners with us. He's like, I spend, he's like, I spend more time talking to you guys than my wife. Like, I, I don't need more time.

• 29:51Bill Simmons?

  Wild is like a cat. He just jumps on your lap when you don't expect it and then he's gone for three weeks. And he's like, I think Wild's is in the garage.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  I feel like that's the, is it Wild's and Paul George now you've compared in your career?

• 30:04Bill Simmons?

  Wild's is like, Paul George, he's a cat.

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 30:06Bill Simmons?

  They're both cats.

• 30:07Speaker 01

  But like, three years ago, four years ago, there was a dinner that he had no choice but to go to, cause the bosses were in from LA.

• 30:15Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  So we all go to dinner. Um, dinner goes a little later than usual. I think there's, you know, maybe an one extra cocktail. And then, you know, coffee, a real long, good dinner. The type of thing I love, but Wild's usually out on.

• 30:30Bill Simmons?

  Can I guess where this story is going before you finish it?

• 30:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:33Bill Simmons?

  Because he is the king of the Irish goodbye, Kevin Wilds.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  So he did that, he did that at a different dinner, years later, which is, we all ordered dessert and then he was like, I'm gonna use the restroom. And then he came back to the restroom, was like, guys, he just said it, he was like, I don't have to stay for this, right? And just left, but that's not it. This one, he did stay.

• 30:52Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 30:52Speaker 01

  And I used to, I used to, uh, smoke the occasional cigarette or two. And so I, we're outside-

• 31:00Bill Simmons?

  But I have to wear a seatbelt, fine.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  Great take, great take. We're outside and I don't know how, but I peer pressure Wilds. I'm like, come on, man. I was like, have a cigarette with me. It'll be good bonding.

• 31:15Bill Simmons?

  Oh, the K man will have every so often.

• 31:18Speaker 01

  So he smokes half a cigarette.

• 31:21Bill Simmons?

  Half. Okay.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Gets his Uber to, you know, he lives in Westchester County, I'll call it. It's a long drive from Midtown Manhattan. Halfway through the Uber ride, that cigarette's not sitting well with him.

• 31:35Bill Simmons?

  Oh, no.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  Makes, makes the Uber driver pull over so he can throw up from the cigarette. He's gotten so soft his whole day.

• 31:46Bill Simmons?

  Not even from drinking, it was from the half cigarette?

• 31:49Speaker 01

  From the half cigarette. And he swears he hasn't smoked one since. He said, he said he hasn't.

• 31:58Bill Simmons?

  This does not surprise me. Cause Wilds was always destined to be an older guy who is going to be grossed out by half cigarette.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 32:05Bill Simmons?

  That was one of his destinies.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 32:08Bill Simmons?

  This is great.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  This is, he's all in though. He thinks the Pats are gonna beat up on the Seahawks Wednesday night.

• 32:14Bill Simmons?

  I actually think, I said this last night, there's a, they're a live dog tomorrow night. Unless they trade Christian Gonzalez for two first round picks. So to sum up, before we go to the mailbag.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:27Bill Simmons?

  Allen is the consensus best quarterback in the league. But I don't think anyone feels awesome about it. I think it's, it's a, it's the 1999 NBA MVP version of that. And when I said last year, I thought he was the best QB in the league. I just felt like, I really felt like he was the most consistent at that position. And there had been some slippage with Mahomes. And this is why the Mahomes thing is so interesting going forward. It's like, how is he going to basically elevate himself the second part of his career like Brady did? Because Brady's second half of his career was better than his first half of his career, just was.

• 33:03Speaker 01

  No doubt.

• 33:04Bill Simmons?

  For all these different reasons. Is Mahomes gonna be able to do that? Or did we already see the peak? I think is, is the sneaky, most interesting question of the season, other than what's gonna go on with the Rams.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  So I, and what I, listen, I think the Chiefs are going to be good. I, I also think the media is much further down on them than the odds makers. Like you see a lot of, they are, it's almost surprising when you see someone in the media pick them to win the division. I might be the only person who picked them to win the Super Bowl. They have the fifth best odds. They have a total of 10 and a half. They're the favorites in the AFC West. So Vegas and the, the media fan sentiment is misaligned there. The interesting thing about, here's what I will say is, using the Brady comp. I, if Mahomes has a year this year that is similar to Brady in 09, his first year back from the ACL.

• 33:58Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 33:59Speaker 01

  The overreactions will be, the general consensus will be, he is.

• 34:05Bill Simmons?

  The king is back. Yeah.

• 34:06Speaker 01

  No, no, the opposite. I'm saying Brady in 09 wasn't great. I'm talking about the.

• 34:11Bill Simmons?

  Brady's stats were good that year, but it was just the team wasn't that good.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  They were great in 2010.

• 34:16Bill Simmons?

  No, his stats were always good. It was the 09 team just wasn't good. That was, they were too slow. There's a bunch of different reasons for it.

• 34:23Speaker 01

  So I just, the, if, if Mahomes has a great statistical year, then I think we'll be right back to where we're supposed to be. But if he's, looks different coming off the ACL, even if like you've said, it's a two-year injury, it takes whatever. The overreactions will be massive. And there's, you know, people are so eager to make this Justin Herbert thing happen. If God forbid, if the Chiefs slip and the Chargers actually do something, which won't happen. Um, there'll, there will be a lot of, he's not even the best quarterback in his own division takes anymore. But I'm prepared for all of it.

• 35:00Bill Simmons?

  We're gonna take a break, we're gonna come back, do some mailbag. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. The NFL, it's back. Yeah, FanDuel making it your most rewarding season ever by kicking off football with a super boost. Oh, yeah. Patriots, Seahawks, one game, all you need is one point. Here's how it works. Opt in, use your token on Patriots versus Seahawks with the kickoff super boost. And then, once either team puts the first point on the board, you can win up to $25 guaranteed. I am leaning toward a parlay on this as the best bet, which would be the Patriots money line and the over. Which I think the odds would be really good.

• 35:43Bill Simmons?

  Normally I would not tell you to bet the, the Pats, but I do think if they're ever gonna catch the Seahawks, this is the game. And I would wanna do odds with the over. You might disagree. Make your pick. Get ready for the season to officially begin, because when the Patriots or Seahawks score, so do you. Download the app to get started. 21 plus select states or 18 plus DC, Kentucky, Wyoming, restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Game problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org/chat. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season. You can now get BOGO deals every week on game day favorites like wings, pizza, fries, snacks. Those are all things I eat. Uber Eats delivers way more than food.

• 36:28Bill Simmons?

  You can also get beers and seltzers for your tailgate. You can get batteries for the TV remote. You can get last minute gear. If you can't find your favorite team sweatshirt or whatever you need and you gotta rep. Basically whatever game day calls for you, you can get almost, almost anything on Uber Eats with deals every week. Uber Eats, official on-demand food delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. For alcohol, you must be a legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. All right, come back, we just smoked a half cigarette, we're ready to do some mailbag. Shout out to the K man. These are all actual questions. You can send in questions to bs podcast 33 at gmail.com.

• 37:09Bill Simmons?

  I got a lot of Clippers questions and I grouped them all together and I figured you'd wanna do them with me. I mean, what's more fun than the Clipper story? All right, first one is from Lance from Detroit now in LA. He says, Steve Ballmer is the richest guy in the NBA, is out of picks, but he's never gonna be out of money. Why not go scorched earth on the second apron? Spend a billion dollars on payroll for the next couple of years. The fans are rightfully angry right now, but if you go all in to win, they'll forgive you. He says, this would be the sports version of one of my favorite moves. He calls marrying the nanny. When you not only commit the biggest mistake you ever made, you then embrace it. Ethan Hawke and Robin Williams both had affairs with their nanny and married them. Both men are still beloved.

• 37:53Bill Simmons?

  Gavin Rossdale, Jude Law, many others slept with the nanny and left them and are pretty fucking far from beloved. Steve Ballmer needs to marry the nanny and go over the second apron. I love marrying the nanny, it's one of the best things anyone's said in a while.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  I, yeah, I mean, I've never heard a phrase like that. That's brilliant by the writer. Um, but it got my, got me thinking immediately. I do, it is interesting that the most punitive parts of the second apron. And the thing that in theory, teams are most afraid of is that we will freeze your picks seven years out. So the Clippers have this small window of like, go bleep yourself. We don't have a pick seven years out.

• 38:39Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 38:39Speaker 01

  Like so.

• 38:40Bill Simmons?

  Oh, you can't, you don't, won't have the same roster movement. It's like, we're fucked anyway.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Right. So that, I do wonder if he could in the short term, like hedge his financial advantage in order to acquire, like what would be the way to do this? Acquire players whose contracts are underwater? And then, like, will he take on bad contracts to get picks attached to him? I think that's what you have to do if you're the Clippers.

• 39:12Bill Simmons?

  So that's what Brooklyn did when they finally eventually figured out what to do. And they did like the D'Angelo Russell trade, got some picks in there. Like if the Philly thing doesn't go well coming out of the gate or Embiid gets hurt, maybe that's part of what you do is you, you like.

• 39:28Speaker 01

  Man, you have been ready to trade Embiid since the moment they got LeBron.

• 39:33Bill Simmons?

  I mean, he plays 40 games a year. Like, I, I think it's a fair conversation.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:38Bill Simmons?

  He can't play more than 10 games in a row.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  The, yeah, well, that's, I don't know if you have Philly mailbag questions. You, you, you, there's, but the, so I, I won't.

• 39:48Bill Simmons?

  So you're down with Steve marrying the nanny and basically just spending crazy amounts of money the next couple of years?

• 39:53Speaker 01

  If he can, absolutely. I think that's what he's gotta do. I also think he owes that to the fans. Cause I think your, was it, was it you that said he should have had the option, sell the team or take the penalty?

• 40:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 40:06Speaker 01

  I, I thought that was.

• 40:07Bill Simmons?

  Silver should have said that publicly, we gave him the option, door A or door B. Because that would have even crippled him even more, Ballmer.

• 40:16Speaker 01

  I, I don't say this to kiss your ass. I thought that was one of the smartest, like, individual opinions I heard on this whole thing. Because it is true that he is, he is the villain here. He is the person that authorized all of this. Like he is, he gave the okay.

• 40:35Bill Simmons?

  He still claims he didn't. I think they might sue, they might end up suing and like, they're still adamant, they didn't do anything despite the 36-page report that painstakingly spells out all the things they did.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Well, certainly, I guess my point is, let's assume the Clipper, that the NBA is correct, that the Clippers did do all this. It wasn't done without his knowledge. Like, it wasn't Lawrence Frank, like he, he, I'm gonna believe the NBA that he greenlit it.

• 41:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, can you imagine how mad he would be if he knew nothing about any of this?

• 41:06Speaker 01

  Uh, right. It wouldn't be, all those people would be fired.

• 41:08Bill Simmons?

  You would have fired those people a year ago.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  And so, I do think though, that saying to the owner, hey, you're like, we are going to destroy your ability to compete. Unless you sell the team. So make a decision, is it about you or is it about the fans? Make a decision. I think that would have been really interesting. They obviously didn't go that way. It also does, is this, is you, like, I don't know, you have more Clippers mailbag questions, so.

• 41:37Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, let me keep going.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Go ahead.

• 41:39Bill Simmons?

  From Clay Grossman. Why can't Ballmer just show up to the home games and pay the fines? He has enough money and he'll sue if they try to take any more money from him. That got me thinking, what if, what if he did show up to the games, but he was wearing one of those, like, remember when Michael Jackson got really crazy? And was wearing those disguises when he was at concert tours? And he was going out in public, but he would have this like elaborate. elaborate thing on and so people wouldn't recognize him in public and he could go to a mall. What if Ballmer just did that? And we're sitting at games, it's like, man, that guy's kind of built like Steve Ballmer, but he's

• 42:15Speaker 01

  and acting like Ballmer, the problem is, I don't think, I think it's I think we would snap, no, there's no, there's never been an NBA fan ever that acts like Steve Ballmer.

• 42:26Bill Simmons?

  True.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  So you see this giant guy, no matter what the disguise is, acting like Ballmer, you'd know it was him.

• 42:31Bill Simmons?

  He'd have to be heavily sedated, I think.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  I do really, I do wonder what the mechanism is. If Ballmer's like, I'm, guess who owns the arena? I do. Guess who pays the security? Guess who, all this, or what? What is the NBA going to do to keep me out of the arena? If Ballmer actually says, I'm gonna call your bluff, not even a bluff, but I'm gonna start showing up. I don't know what the league would do.

• 42:57Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, how far could he push it? To be like, well, you already screwed me anyway, so let's, let's keep going, I'm gonna escalate this.

• 43:03Speaker 01

  Um, because I do think that

• 43:08Speaker 01

  if you power ranked the punish, like if you, let me ask you this.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  If, if the NBA was like, okay. You can take a whiteout. Um, if kids don't know what whiteout is.

• 43:23Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 43:24Speaker 01

  It's a matter of an eraser.

• 43:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  Um. To one of these punishments. Would he, and it's like, you can either get two of the five first round picks back. We'll give you two of them back. Or we'll remove your ban. Which one is he getting rid of? Like, I bet the ban hurt him all, like, maybe not as much as the five first round picks.

• 43:50Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 43:51Speaker 01

  But if it was like, hey, you can pick the punishment. Five first round picks stripped. And you're not banned. Or three first round strips picked and you are banned. I think he'd be like, uh, we'll, we'll do, I said that backwards, but you know what I mean?

• 44:06Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I know what you mean.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  The, I, I think the ban and not being able to go to the games is the most, is

• 44:12Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, this

• 44:12Speaker 01

  about as harsh as the

• 44:13Bill Simmons?

  This arena that he built, that he planned for four years and built this little palace and had a great time.

• 44:19Speaker 01

  But it is pretty sick, right? Like, it is a real home court advantage.

• 44:23Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty great, and now it's gonna be a morgue. These two, these two emails are together, I want to read them both and then we can discuss. The first one is from Patrick Cummings. He, uh, he asked for a conspiracy bill on this one. ESPN came out with a report that the NBA didn't find any smoking gun in the Clippers and the punishment will be next to nothing. This in turn made two forms of talking head takes. Number one, Pablo Torre looks bad. Number two, the commissioner is weak and the NBA is afraid of their richest owner. Well, what happens? A report comes out four weeks later, they publish it, the punishment comes out, it is the largest in league history. Now the talking heads are saying ESPN looks bad and Pablo is owed an apology. But

• 45:07Bill Simmons?

  couldn't both ESPN and Pablo have been correct at the time of the reporting? I believe what happened is the NBA was gonna go soft on the Clippers, it got leaked and the outrage caused them to go in the opposite direction. Basically ESPN and Pablo were correct and the league changed it. So that's one theory, then the other one is from Ian Wager in Winnipeg. Uh, also for conspiracy bill. My friend John thinks the NBA released that bogus Clips punishment report to ESPN to gauge the public backlash. They decided to be leaning on the Clippers. When social media went crazy about it. They decided to go hard on it. What does conspiracy bill think? Um, I'll give you my, I have really strong thoughts on this, but I'll let you take the floor first.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  No, I, the, I mean, I think that, and listen. I am. I'm not against you know, the occasional poking fun at Pablo Torre. I'm not even against, you know, someone occasionally being a little, you know? Everybody has their smugness limit and some people have different levels. With that said, I never thought the ESPN report made Pablo look bad. I thought that even if that ESPN report was true. It, it's totally to me was possible that everything Pablo reported was accurate. And the NBA was simply going to look the other way.

• 46:29Speaker 01

  So I didn't look at that ESPN report as, oh my God, Pablo screwed this up. It was pretty clear Pablo's information all along was accurate, like he wasn't the, and so that, I, to me, the question was whether or not the NBA was going to take it as seriously as they did. I read that ESPN report as they, they were fed information by the Clippers. And that the, and when they asked the NBA about it, the NBA didn't confirm or deny, and they went with it. And I think that was, again, that's just my gut feeling. And that was obviously a massive mistake, but that wasn't like lightly sourced.

• 47:14Speaker 01

  It had multiple bylines on it, including Ramona, who's a real reporter, Don Van Natta, who's a real investigative reporter. And that was, it was a little stunning that they would

• 47:27Bill Simmons?

  And Baxter Holmes.

• 47:28Speaker 01

  Oh, Baxter Holmes, I forgot, who's, who's, is a really good investigative reporter too. So what's your take? I, I'm curious.

• 47:34Bill Simmons?

  I don't even think this is a take, and this is not conspiracy bill's take. This is my take and I think I'm right. I think they were very close to a settlement.

• 47:45Bill Simmons?

  And I think the Clippers knew they were close to a settlement. And I think what was gonna happen was the punishment was not gonna be nearly as bad as it was, and they were hammering out all the details and the Clippers felt like they were gonna be home free. And instead of just waiting until the settlement. They wanted to start pushing and changing the narrative sooner than the settlement. They pushed the ESPN story, there's no question, right?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 48:11Bill Simmons?

  That ESPN story comes out. But the settlement wasn't done yet, and I think the league and Adam Silver flipped out. And I will, I will always believe that's what happened. I think when that story came out. I think Adam Silver was like, you motherfuckers, like, we, we've just been trying to figure this out for the last well, however many months, and you're gonna do that? Well, the settlement's off, and then threw the hammer at them. And I, I feel like, I feel like where this was headed was they got in trouble with, they did something similar with DeAndre Jordan in 2015, which was way, way, you know, way less big of a deal, it was one thing, and they got slapped in the hand, they got fined. And they were gonna push this as the, maybe the report never gets published. This is their second offense.

• 48:56Bill Simmons?

  Um, we investigated this, there was a lot of stuff, but there was no smoking gun. And I really think that's what happened. I'm not, I'm not reporting that, if you aggregate that, I'm not reporting that, but I'm always, that is my theory for what happened. I think they thought they had a settlement, and I think once they did what they did, I think the NBA was like, okay. Fuck you guys.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  So, couple things. Cause I can add to that in real time, just again, just my gut feeling. But just to clarify. So you, you're under that line of thinking, had they reached a settlement, there's never a public report.

• 49:35Bill Simmons?

  I don't think so.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Which is like we, the

• 49:38Bill Simmons?

  I don't know that, I'm just guessing. Because, because you can't release that report and not think the Clippers didn't do it, right?

• 49:44Speaker 01

  So, correct, that, that's what I was gonna say, you couldn't have, you, you couldn't have a slap on the wrist. And like, and then like, here's the report. Like, so they would have had to give either a sanitized or a much shorter version of it. So here's what I wonder, because I'm trying to figure out if they were that close to it. You know, a settlement, a favorable settlement, why would the Clippers leak this to ESPN?

• 50:11Bill Simmons?

  Because, because they're dumbasses, they shouldn't have done anything, they should have just waited till the settlement came out.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  So that, what I was wondering is if, if these penalties are a nine out of 10. And the settlement was going to be a four out of 10.

• 50:27Bill Simmons?

  And maybe a three out of 10.

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, and the Clippers were pushing for a two out of 10. Did, did they leak it to try to show the NBA? People are, don't give a shit. Like, if it's reported that we didn't, because what I saw is the reaction to that ESPN report was a lot of people talking shit to Pablo, not a lot of people outraged the Clippers might get away with it. So did they leak it to try to show the NBA, look? People don't care, they think this happens all the time or whatever it is, but the NBA's reaction was it galled by the fact that they would try to front run the, whatever settlement or agreement, I mean, that does

• 51:08Bill Simmons?

  Perfectly, that's my theory. I, I think that is what I would bet happened. And I think I also think all the Pablo podcasts, I think probably drove the Clippers a little bit crazy too, that this was just every time this died down, it would happen again. I still feel like, like I, I, I probably used hyperbole when I was saying I thought the Dodgers story was a thousand times bigger. Um, but I do think the Dodgers story was way bigger. Because that swung two World Series. That changed the entire landscape of, of baseball and is gonna lead to a lockout. Ultimately, what did this Clippers thing really change? Like, they, they won two playoff series with Kawhi, right?

• 51:48Bill Simmons?

  Like, it was more incompetence versus like, the Dodgers thing actually shifted the sport.

• 51:54Speaker 01

  Well, the Dodgers thing also, I, the, the other reason I agree with you that I think the Dodgers thing is a potentially far bigger deal is the Dodgers thing also might have real implications, I'm not exaggerating it, on the American

• 52:09Bill Simmons?

  Right, on the American economy, you're right.

• 52:10Speaker 01

  Like, there's, there's, there's, there's a possibility that that was like the canary in the coal mine of like, wait, hold on. How much of

• 52:18Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  these businesses are being propped up through what's supposed to be super safe insurance money?

• 52:26Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 52:26Speaker 01

  And if, if there's, you know, if we assume Mark Walter isn't the only person in that line of work that is doing these types of things, like, is there, is that something that if you keep peeling away at, you're gonna have major, major problems across a wildly important sector of the economy?

• 52:43Bill Simmons?

  I think a lot of people are worried about that.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Correct, that like transcends the sports piece of it. Oh, but here is the thing, and you hit on this a bit. But this is the Clippers piece that I am, I don't want to say I'm most interested in, but I feel like my interest level has the biggest difference between how much people are discussing it and where my interest is.

• 53:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 53:06Speaker 01

  Kawhi is a huge villain in this.

• 53:09Bill Simmons?

  I agree.

• 53:09Speaker 01

  And, and so the Kawhi Leonard trade and transaction now goes down as the single worst transaction in the history of the sport. You, in order, in order, Kawhi wouldn't come if you wouldn't give up, get Paul George instead of just waiting a bit. And you give up five first round picks and Shay and now.

• 53:30Bill Simmons?

  And now it got worse.

• 53:32Speaker 01

  Right. And now, and evidently he also wouldn't come for the maximum. You had to find extra ways to pay him money. I almost would feel a little differently if it was, if Kawhi had taken like the mid level. And they're like, we'll make up the money on the backend because he wanted to build some super team. But it's like, no, I want the maximum and then some. And he, and he, you know, listen, people can, it was New Balance, whatever. He really did put his chin out there on the king of LA. Hey LeBron, I'm the best player in the league. I'm running this ad campaign. I'm taking your town, this whole thing. And then the only time they made the conference finals was when he got hurt.

• 54:16Bill Simmons?

  And he got hurt the previous round.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and it was the return on investment on he, he tore his ACL while playing for them. And Skip Bayless knew before the Clippers knew. Skip reported that, but like his, his lack of commitment to that team availability. Plus, at the very least, just allowing Uncle Dennis to run ramp, roughshod. But it's hard for me to believe he wasn't at least somewhat aware of it.

• 54:47Bill Simmons?

  Well, and the lack of communication too, where they just, this was years and years of them being like, yeah, we don't.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  We don't know.

• 54:54Bill Simmons?

  We don't know anything that's going on with this guy. We don't know when he's going to show up, not show up. We don't know if he's healthy. Uh, I have more Kawhi stuff, so save that because I want to keep going. From Bo in the LBC. Do you think you, Waz or House will select your Clippers season tickets in next year's worst NBA contracts draft? I think it is eligible. I didn't, it's not as bad as Joel Embiid, but it's bad. You mentioned Uncle Dennis, Caleb in Tucson wants to, wants to know if you exclude every NBA player, employee or owner. Is Kawhi's Uncle Dennis, the biggest off the court villain in NBA history? Because he basically demolished the Clippers franchise for almost a decade and a half. I still think it's Tim Donahue.

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, I'm trying to think of who else, because that was, you were like every player owner or.

• 55:46Bill Simmons?

  It's basically all NBA employee, basically non-player, non-front office person, non-owner. Which rules out Sterling and some other classics.

• 55:53Speaker 01

  Are retired players eligible?

• 55:57Speaker 01

  Cause if so, Enes Kanter is rising up that fucking list pretty quick, but that's a separate thing.

• 56:03Bill Simmons?

  That's a good one.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  The utter embarrassment.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, Donaghy is an all time one.

• 56:12Bill Simmons?

  Also like for, he's changed his story. I did a podcast a couple of years ago about this. Like he's just a pathological liar about even what he did when he rafted. I, I think he's been so damaging that some people, you know, because people believe fake news shit. I also had the Pistons guy who threw the bear at Ron Artest might be up there.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  That's a good one.

• 56:32Bill Simmons?

  John Green.

• 56:35Bill Simmons?

  Started the melee, changed the course of the 05 playoffs. Cause you could argue the Pacers might have had the best team that year. And then David Falk, I do feel like Jordan's age in the nineties. Who just got too much power and too much influence. And that all led to the 99 lockout and some really damaging contract stuff. And he just flew too close to the sun as an agent. So I would, those would be three people I thought of, but maybe there's more.

• 57:04Speaker 01

  That's a good list. Go ahead.

• 57:05Bill Simmons?

  This, you're going to love this one from Wally. Conspiracy bill is needed. Based on the 35 page report, it feels like there was often haggling between Ballmer and Uncle Dennis. About if Ballmer was getting enough endorsement money to, to pay Kawhi. Do we have dates on those correspondences? Is it possible many of Kawhi's prolonged injury absences happened? Cause him and Uncle Dennis weren't happy about the money they were promised that they weren't getting. You gotta admit, when all this came to light and was being investigated magically Kawhi was as healthy as he's been in 10 years. His two healthiest Clippers years were the first year and the last year when the scheme was exposed. Do you think he withheld playing services from the Clippers during certain points of his Clipper career? Because he wasn't happy about the side money?

• 57:50Bill Simmons?

  What do you say conspiracy bill?

• 57:52Speaker 01

  I, that is an all time great.

• 57:55Bill Simmons?

  Pretty good.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  That's a great conspiracy bill question. And I am, I am comfortable saying if the dates, if, if we were to get those dates and they lined up. I would just flatly believe that's what was happening.

• 58:12Bill Simmons?

  Me as well.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  Like, that's, that's a great email.

• 58:17Bill Simmons?

  This has been covered a little bit already, but Matt S. wants to know if Kawhi just goes back to Toronto in 2019. They won the title. He's the best player in the world. He's playing with Lowry, Van Vliet, Siakam, Ananobe's coming on, Marc Gasol still there, Serge Ibaka. Does that change the course of 2020? And does LeBron not get the fourth one?

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, listen, you, you and I feel very differently about the 2020 NBA season. Before COVID shut everything down, the Lakers were the best team.

• 58:49Bill Simmons?

  There was three, LA, LA and Milwaukee were the three best teams.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Yes, but I, I think the Lakers had a better, I know they had a better record than the Clippers. I'm not sure about their record versus the Bucks. LeBron and AD, that was, you know.

• 59:02Bill Simmons?

  LeBron was awesome. LeBron was awesome that year.

• 59:04Speaker 01

  LeBron was unreal. And then in the bubble, they were, I understand it was the bubble, but they had earned home court. So they don't get, it'd be one thing if they were like the seven seed that took advantage of the fact that they didn't get, have to play road games. They were the homes, they were the number one seed and they annihilated everybody. They, they, you know, they, they went, people, I remember they were like, oh, that Portland team's dangerous, gentleman's sweep. That Rockets team, it was never really going to work, but Russ and Harden were working.

• 59:34Bill Simmons?

  And then David, Davis demolished them.

• 59:37Speaker 01

  Demolished them.

• 59:38Bill Simmons?

  And the Clippers immediately got the fuck out of Dodge. They didn't want to be in the bubble at all.

• 59:42Speaker 01

  The Clippers, the Clippers were up 3-1 on Denver and up big in all those games and just gave up.

• 59:49Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Clippers were the ones when they had the vote. The Clippers were the ones like, yeah, we'd like to vote to leave.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  To get out of here. And Lou Williams stopped by the strip club to get the chicken wings. So he had to miss time. So I think that LeBron and the Lakers were, I think the more interesting what if, it's not Kawhi related. Is if Solomon Hill doesn't fall into Bron's ankle the next year when they were again, I think they had the second best record in the West.

• 1:00:16Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  What does that championship defense look like? And more importantly, does that then prevent them from ever trading for Russ? And do we have an entirely different LeBron in the Lakers era? It's hard to like.

• 1:00:29Bill Simmons?

  Well, what's incredible is that's probably the number one LeBron injury what if? And it's not, it's barely an injury. Like, I mean, he's had, it's partly because of how much work he puts in and the fact that he's a super freak. But it's just had no injuries ever. Like Russell, Russell sprained his ankle in 58 in the finals and that was the only finals he lost. He's playing on one leg against Bob Pettit.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  The, so it was, it's hard to be like, ah, man, LeBron got unlucky with that injury. When he's played a quarter century and it's the only unlucky injury. Like how many times, how, like he avoided that.

• 1:01:05Bill Simmons?

  I said this a couple of weeks ago, his unluckiest thing ever was Orlando just being on a heater in that 2009 series.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  The average 38, nine and nine.

• 1:01:14Bill Simmons?

  He was unbelievable.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  In that series.

• 1:01:16Bill Simmons?

  I thought it was like 35, nine and nine.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  No, it was 38, it was, it was 38, nine.

• 1:01:21Bill Simmons?

  38, nine, nine. Yeah, it was over. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, not 30 dash eight, 38.

• 1:01:27Bill Simmons?

  And Orlando was just on a team heater.

• 1:01:30Speaker 01

  No, it's just, you just have a bunch of, you know, Heydo Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis and nobody, it skipped to my Lou. Nobody can miss. That was a, that was an un, an unbelievable one.

• 1:01:41Bill Simmons?

  One more, two more emails quick. James in Chicago. He said Kawhi burned the Clipper ship down with everyone still aboard. Ballmer, Uncle Dennis gone, nobody saw it coming. By the time we blinked, the limp was gone. He was already in Canada. Kawhi is actually Kawizer Soze, isn't he? It's from James in Chicago. I love Kawizer Soze. That's what we have to call him from now on.

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  So is he, so because, because he's back in Toronto.

• 1:02:09Bill Simmons?

  Ballmer's dropping the coffee cup, slow motion.

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  Does, does Kawhi now have a chance? All right. So here's my question.

• 1:02:19Bill Simmons?

  Also going back to the only place that likes him.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  So that's what I was going to ask.

• 1:02:23Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  More likely to have a statue in a city? Kawhi Leonard or Kevin Durant?

• 1:02:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Kawhi Leonard, a hundred times. Durant's, Durant's messed that up 19 times in just since he left.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Right. Like, but no, but I, in any sense, I'm saying.

• 1:02:42Bill Simmons?

  Oh, Durant.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Durant doesn't have a city.

• 1:02:47Bill Simmons?

  I still feel like there's a Seattle move for him.

• 1:02:52Speaker 01

  He's got to stick around.

• 1:02:53Bill Simmons?

  Maybe there's a Team USA headquarters in Colorado, wherever it is, maybe he can get one there.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  That, he, he's too good of a player not to have a statue, but I don't know what city's putting it up.

• 1:03:05Bill Simmons?

  Max K. wants to know. What if Kawhi is the one who ultimately gave the NBA everything? His relationship with the Clippers was over, Toronto was next. If the investigation put him in real jeopardy, contract voided, suspended, Toronto trade gets frozen. And what if he decided, why am I protecting the Clippers? He, Uncle Dennis knew more blah, blah, blah. What if he realized the writing was on the wall? I think this belongs in the Bill Simmons Conspiracy Theory Hall of Fame. Basically he was the whistleblower, he was Deep Throat. So I've talked about this last week, but I, I do think it's in play.

• 1:03:39Speaker 01

  So I don't think he had to be the whistleblower. I think he simply had to say.

• 1:03:46Speaker 01

  I won't fight it like the I will basically cop to all of this, which he did in his statement. He just said it wasn't him, it was the people around him.

• 1:03:55Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:55Speaker 01

  But and you talked about it last week. The NBA needed desperately the Players Association to not fight this. And which means Kawhi had to be okay with it. So Kawhi oddly had a lot of leverage in what he was willing to and not willing to accept. And he wants him comes out the big winner. And I do find, I think one of the funniest parts of the punishment is that instead of giving Uncle Dennis a lifetime ban, they clearly had a meeting and they were like, all right.

• 1:04:30Bill Simmons?

  About five years.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  What's the longest Kawhi's career is going to keep going?

• 1:04:35Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  Because we're pretty confident that once Kawhi is out of the league.

• 1:04:39Bill Simmons?

  Nobody else is hiring Uncle Dennis.

• 1:04:41Speaker 01

  And Uncle Dennis's client list is down to zero.

• 1:04:44Bill Simmons?

  I heard Wiles was looking at him. He's next agent.

• 1:04:49Bill Simmons?

  He's bringing Uncle Dennis to FS1.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  And go with Uncle Dennis. Um, and so I, so I thought, yeah, I mean, I don't know that Kawhi had to like give him a bunch of stuff. It seems like they had it. I just think he had to be like, yeah, I'm like, so wait, just let me just make sure I'm quiet. Let me make sure I have this right. Everyone else gets crushed and you're taking from me.

• 1:05:12Bill Simmons?

  700,000, but I get my contract for this year and I get to go to Toronto.

• 1:05:16Speaker 01

  I get to go to Toronto, I get my contract. You, you guys have on, you know, on the record, I made us essentially 50 times what my fine is. Yeah, you know what? I'm okay with that. No problem.

• 1:05:27Bill Simmons?

  Honestly, this was the peak of player empowerment era. We thought it was like the decision or LeBron going back to Cleveland or Durant going Golden State. This was it. Kawhi just running amok, making all this extra money and then escaping scot-free to Toronto where he can hang out and drink.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  Unbelievable.

• 1:05:43Bill Simmons?

  Last one, um, how long do you think the Clipper curse will last? And what do you, what do they have to do to make it happen? Make it go away from a karma standpoint from Josh from Fort Wayne, Indiana? I honestly think I, I, I don't see.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Move, right?

• 1:05:57Bill Simmons?

  I think they have to move and I don't, maybe, maybe out of the country. Like maybe they're the first London team. Like maybe they just need a new country. Maybe they need a new continent. I don't know if there's anywhere it works here. Maybe they have to merge with somebody else. I, I, I just, now we're going into the 2030s. They've lost so many of their fans. People are so mad about this, um, that now there's a backlash against the people that are mad about this where the diehard's like, hey, this is, you gotta stick with your team. It's like, this team's a train wreck.

• 1:06:30Speaker 01

  You don't have to stay, I gotta tell you, li- li- listen. It, it, and I made, I don't feel like there was enough. Again, this is gonna sound very self-congratulatory, but I think you and I are two of the only people that really laid out that this just nuked the next decade of the Clippers. That their, their next, their best hope at building a competitive team, if these penalties stay unchanged, is a, their best hope is around 2036. Like they need, so it's 10 years in the wilderness. It is the NBA version of the SMU death penalty. It's like, you're just finished.

• 1:07:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, because you're never getting a free agent ever because you have no future. You have nothing to trade.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Free agent.

• 1:07:20Bill Simmons?

  To augment the good guys you have.

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  And got, by the way, guys don't hit free agency. The only like guys, so the, the first round picks are used to either, you know, find your next star or to trade for your next star. You don't have them. So you're just nuked until 2036. Like the next great Clipper other than Waggler, honest to God, is probably right now nine years old. So like that's, like that's the world that we're in.

• 1:07:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, you have to basically copy the Brooklyn model, which they, they belatedly started figuring out what to do. And from 16, 17, 18, 19, knowing they weren't gonna have the picks. But they basically tried to pave the way to get to that Durant Kyrie summer and then bet on the wrong guys.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:08:09Bill Simmons?

  But maybe that's.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Brooklyn model, which is.

• 1:08:11Bill Simmons?

  Well, the Clippers, because we talked about them marrying the nanny and going over the second apron. They could also go the other way and basically spend $1 more than whatever the floor is. Um, so try, basically be as, as bad as you possibly can be. Um, make those Embiid type trades to try to get more draft picks and really try to bottom out because nobody's gonna care about them or think they have a chance anyway.

• 1:08:36Speaker 01

  So here's the other thing that I, is maybe interesting only to me, but I'm curious about and I, I don't think anyone's reported it. With the new lottery system, I don't want them to have to redo the math and remove the Clippers from the draw, like let's say the Clippers are in the lottery from the draw.

• 1:08:57Bill Simmons?

  So if they were one of the bottom three teams, they'd have two balls, but they don't have a pick. So the other, the next three teams basically would be the.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Right, but that's not what I want. What I want is for them to do, even though they don't have a pick, they are still, they're still lottery. So, so they actually have to.

• 1:09:15Bill Simmons?

  So we play it out. It's like.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  You play it out and if they have the fourth pick, then at the, like it's picks one, two, three or.

• 1:09:21Bill Simmons?

  It's like a placebo pick. I like that.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  Fourth pick is, you know, vacated and we go to the fifth pick. And then you can really see what picks were taken. But I do wonder in all seriousness, if there is a world where in three years, the NBA essentially, or in two years or at some point, brings to Ballmer what your suggestion was, which is, listen, the, the, the market for these teams is outrageous.

• 1:09:53Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:54Speaker 01

  If you sell, the, then these penalties are gone. Like the, the new owner, like the, and we can try to bring some of these fans back.

• 1:10:04Bill Simmons?

  I don't see him doing it. He's got a lot of money. He's had a lot of success.

• 1:10:07Speaker 01

  A lot of money.

• 1:10:08Bill Simmons?

  Um, I, I do feel like he doesn't feel like he was that involved with whatever bad things happen. If he maybe trusted the wrong people, maybe had people like Jillian Zucker telling him, no, no, everybody in the league does this. It's not, it's not just us and just, it was a lot of unforced errors, but the intent wasn't there and, and, in, in the way it seems, so I don't know. Um, you want to do a couple more mailbag questions?

• 1:10:33Speaker 01

  Yes, please.

• 1:10:34Bill Simmons?

  All right, we're gonna take one more break and then do them. FanDuel is making this your most rewarding season ever with boosts, promos, a new rewards club, bringing the teaser back and so much more. Uh, so they wanted me to do a same game parlay for Pat's Seahawks and I was looking at this one just for fun. AJ Brown, he's gotta score a touchdown in the first game. Come on, they're, they'll go out of their way to make this happen. AJ Brown touchdown. I'm bumping the Pats up to four and a half because I think this is gonna be a close game, but I, I want to buy myself either the, the field goal or they lose by four or they win. But Pats plus four and a half and then the under 51 and a half. Because I think the defenses will be further ahead of the offenses.

• 1:11:18Bill Simmons?

  That is plus of 452. So if you like it, go ahead and place this SGP on the FanDuel app. And don't forget to also place FanDuel's Super Boost for the game during your most rewarding season ever. It's coming.

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• 1:13:04Bill Simmons?

  All right, couple more mailbag questions. Max M. from Santa Barbara is a diehard Commanders fan, and he said after the LSU cease and desist with Jaden Daniels, is this the most pressure QB has ever had to get to six wins?

• 1:13:18Speaker 01

  To get to six wins?

• 1:13:19Bill Simmons?

  Because if Jaden fails to get there, or if he's at four, if he's stuck at five, the jokes and the memes will be out of control. I'm not saying it's going to be a distraction, but I'm hesitant to say it won't be nothing. That's from Max.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  So?

• 1:13:32Bill Simmons?

  It's pretty good. So if they're like five and 10, the jokes are starting.

• 1:13:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, the jokes are starting. And that team I expect to be really bad.

• 1:13:42Bill Simmons?

  Me too.

• 1:13:43Speaker 01

  And I have a general... I don't know why there wasn't... Sorry, Joe House. Why I was one of the lone voices in the media that going into the draft with him was simply, I was playing one note, and it's a boring note, and it's kind of a bad take strategy, because when you're proven right, you don't get to celebrate it.

• 1:14:10Bill Simmons?

  Right.

• 1:14:10Speaker 01

  But the note was, this guy is too skinny.

• 1:14:14Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  And I don't think he can hold up. And I am... I put him in the same bucket, but riskier one, that I put Chet in when Chet was coming in. And I read this long ESPN profile, and they're like, listen, Chet works out all the time and eats a billion calories. And I came away from it, and I'm like, now I'm more concerned. Like, if you told me, like, the guy, ah, the guy's just eating Doritos and he's not on a good, you know, regiment, fine. But what you're telling me is, he can't gain weight. Jaden is coming off a year where he missed games four separate times for three separate injuries. And he has the same frame.

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  Like, if you... It's just... And I don't think he doesn't work hard.

• 1:15:02Bill Simmons?

  I've been saying this for two years, too. It makes me too nervous. He's too skinny. I get nervous about Drake May, who's 40 pounds bigger than him.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  He's... I don't like... He is just too skinny. And the fact that we're now into year three and he hasn't bulked up, it is a huge concern. The fact that they can't fix the offensive line, like, I think that...

• 1:15:23Bill Simmons?

  Well, and then they lost their left tackle, who was their best lineman by far.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Tons towards Tyson.

• 1:15:29Bill Simmons?

  Yeah. I had a bunch. We did the futures draft last night. I had multiple Washington bets, unders, adjusted unders. Jeffrey G. in Marina Del Rey said the Niners opened the season in Australia where prostitution is legal and there are legal brothels all over the cities. What if Jed York was visiting East Palestine, Ohio as his own personal training camp? Was he just trying to get in game shape to open the season strong in Australia? I gotta say, I didn't know that there were legal brothels all over the place in Australia. Now, what if everybody's so happy there?

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  I didn't know that either. I've never been.

• 1:16:05Bill Simmons?

  What a rocking place!

• 1:16:06Speaker 01

  I've been to New Zealand. I have not been to Australia. I do think... You guys talked about this yesterday.

• 1:16:13Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:14Speaker 01

  I do... I am really fascinated by the different approaches in travel.

• 1:16:23Bill Simmons?

  Oh, my God.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  It is... It is... I mean, listen, I flew non-stop.

• 1:16:29Bill Simmons?

  This is the number one storyline of the year.

• 1:16:31Speaker 01

  Dude, bro.

• 1:16:32Bill Simmons?

  However this plays out is going to be amazing, because I got this... I got another email from somebody who does a lot of long flights, who was saying that San Francisco is actually going to be, in the long term, more trouble. Because when you stay far away from where you live for too long, when you come back, you're screwed up for weeks. So he was like, the Rams are going to lose this game, but in the long term will be better. The Niners are going to win the game, but be fucked up for two months.

• 1:16:59Speaker 01

  So I think that's super plausible. So I have taken what is, I think, the second longest non-stop flight that is offered. I have flown New York non-stop to Auckland, New Zealand.

• 1:17:13Bill Simmons?

  Wow.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  So that is 18 and a half hours.

• 1:17:16Bill Simmons?

  Okay.

• 1:17:17Speaker 01

  And it is a real mind f in that, like, get on the plane, have a couple cocktails, take an Advil PM, sleep deeply.

• 1:17:31Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:32Speaker 01

  Six hours, wake up, watch a movie, and it's like, oh, okay.

• 1:17:37Bill Simmons?

  10 hours left.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  We got 10 hours left.

• 1:17:39Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  Like, and so, so I understand, you know, that there isn't necessarily an exact right way to do this, but I do find it super fascinating that the Rams... Because it's not just the... I can't imagine if, right after that flight, the next day, I was flying again. That's the other piece of it. The other piece of it is post-game, like, they're going to spend 36 of 60 hours on a plane.

• 1:18:10Bill Simmons?

  It's one of the rare stories I can't get enough of. Like, Dana White had a whole thing about how he's soft-flying because he has to fly a lot. And he was basically saying you can't eat on an airplane. You just got to hydrate, you got to do all these different things, but once you eat food, it screws you up. So you got to basically fast when you're on the plane.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  I don't think that works for football players.

• 1:18:30Bill Simmons?

  I don't think that's going to work.

• 1:18:31Speaker 01

  Tell you that much.

• 1:18:32Bill Simmons?

  Ben from Connecticut, this is a rewatchables question. In the Aliens podcast, you guys discussed a potential new award based on Bill Paxton's incredible character of Hudson. And I was saying it was more than a Dion Waiters heat check, because he's in the whole movie, but he's kicking ass in the movie. He suggests the Scottie Pippen Award for the movie isn't winning any titles without this character, from Ben from Connecticut. I really like the Scottie Pippen Award. I think it's like, only a few movies. It would have to be like an iconic movie.

• 1:19:07Speaker 01

  A Few Good Men.

• 1:19:09Bill Simmons?

  A Few Good Men, so that would be...

• 1:19:11Speaker 01

  Nicholson.

• 1:19:12Bill Simmons?

  Nicholson.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Because he's only in the movie for like eight minutes.

• 1:19:15Bill Simmons?

  He's Scottie Pippen's the movie, though.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Well, yeah. I mean, there's... I mean, the two that come to mind immediately for me, as far as two movies where someone is barely on screen, but is the reason the movie...

• 1:19:26Bill Simmons?

  But you could argue Nicholson's Dion Waiters, because he's only in the movie for like 15 minutes. This is more like... This is more like a sidekick. So like, Kevin Bacon would be the Scottie Pippen in A Few Good Men.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  Okay, so then that's a bad example. So you've had more time to think about this than me. So do you have an example of this?

• 1:19:43Bill Simmons?

  Well, I just... In general, I like a Scottie Pippen Award, because I think Scottie has really been struggling with his place in NBA, you know, history. I think, I still think he's one of the best 30 to 35 players of all time. I think I'm still in my top 30. And probably the most underappreciated superstar we've had, because he was on the Jordan team. I think a good example...

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  Sorry to interrupt, not to do this, but the most under-discussed season of my lifetime, like, as far as looking back on it?

• 1:20:17Bill Simmons?

  The first No-MJ season.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:20:19Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:20Speaker 01

  They went from 55 wins to 54 wins. Easily could have made those finals.

• 1:20:25Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:26Speaker 01

  And Scottie is just like, Scottie is totally... He has just become, for so many people younger than me, a not even supporting actor, but like a tertiary character in Jordan's story.

• 1:20:43Bill Simmons?

  Which I think bugs him. Yeah.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  It should bug him. And the money, of course, bugs him. But like, it's... He was... If, like, if Michael Jordan never existed, I think Pippen would have still had a run as a top five or six player in the league for a couple of years. And, but...

• 1:21:04Bill Simmons?

  Steve Kerr said he was like, one of the two or three greatest teammates he ever had. Everybody loved playing with him. He was completely unselfish. I would defend him forever. I think a good example is John C. Riley in Boogie Nights.

• 1:21:20Speaker 01

  So I have...

• 1:21:20Bill Simmons?

  Not the star. Oh, you haven't seen Boogie Nights. Could also do Morgan Freeman in Shawshank would be another Scottie Pippen.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a great one. I was going, no.

• 1:21:31Bill Simmons?

  Not the lead character, but is just incredibly important and one of the reasons that, you know...

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  My Boogie Nights confession was going to be worse, then I haven't seen it.

• 1:21:39Bill Simmons?

  You don't like it?

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  Because of your references, I finally, literally, like, six months ago, I was like, I've got... And I love... I think There Will Be Blood's the greatest movie ever made. So I love Paul Thomas Anderson.

• 1:21:52Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:52Speaker 01

  So right around the time the one battle after another came out, I was like, I got to see Boogie Nights.

• 1:21:59Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:01Speaker 01

  I watched the first hour and 20. And then I like had to leave to like go somewhere. I haven't gone back to it. I wasn't taken with it. Like I, I, I don't, I know, I know. I feel like this might be the final.

• 1:22:14Bill Simmons?

  It's gonna get you. Give it, just keep coming, keep testing it out.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Okay. Keep, keep, keep kicking it. All right.

• 1:22:22Bill Simmons?

  Do you care about Tupac's murder?

• 1:22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, of course.

• 1:22:26Bill Simmons?

  This is from Jason P. He said, uh, I know you used to use Picture Me Rollin' as your intro, which was true. That was the first year of, uh, my post ESPN podcast. What were your thoughts on the verdict this week? And I was always curious to know what Tupac album was your favorite. The answer is obviously All Eyes on Me, which came out February 96. Double album.

• 1:22:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say almost exactly 30 years ago. Yeah.

• 1:22:48Bill Simmons?

  It had, uh, I wrote down, so I didn't forget. All About You, How Do You Want It, Life Goes On, California Love, Two of America's Most Wanted, Picture Me Rollin' and I Ain't Mad At You. Double album, which was hugely important in the CD era.

• 1:23:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:23:03Bill Simmons?

  Um, especially if you had stuff in cars and the, the first side was better than the second side, but it was still like, it was like, it was like 25, 26 songs. And was this new era where people started being like, yeah, I'm just gonna give you a bunch of shit. So when you're buying CDs back then, all you want is like three good songs, like three or four, it's like a win for $15. You get double album, it's like $22 and there's seven good songs. It's like you've hit the jackpot. So anyway, this is what life was like with CDs.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  No, so, but I, the, my, the first gift I ever got from a girlfriend, girlfriend, I was in, I think, sixth grade.

• 1:23:43Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:44Speaker 01

  Was the Smashing Pumpkins, Melancholy.

• 1:23:48Bill Simmons?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:23:48Speaker 01

  And the sadness, which was a double album.

• 1:23:50Bill Simmons?

  Yep.

• 1:23:51Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:23:52Bill Simmons?

  This was the era where it all started.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Right. And I'm a little, you know, I, the first hip hop CD I ever got was the, um, P. Diddy album right after Biggie got killed.

• 1:24:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, I don't acknowledge that album.

• 1:24:06Speaker 01

  The, well, I just, that's.

• 1:24:08Bill Simmons?

  No, I just, I never liked Diddy.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Uh, um, but go ahead, sorry.

• 1:24:13Bill Simmons?

  The verdict. So this guy who finally got nailed for it, he thought he wasn't gonna get nailed for the murder and just started doing interviews?

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:24:23Bill Simmons?

  And it was like, he didn't understand, he, he must've thought there was some, I don't know what he thought, but all of a sudden this dude was going around, just giving, like basically to a podcast, like, yeah, so here's what, and eventually just got nailed and now he's going to jail. He has to be one of the dumbest murderers we've had in a while.

• 1:24:41Speaker 01

  Well, it, it, we had never seen someone treat murder like the way we would talk about, like.

• 1:24:55Bill Simmons?

  Are the Clippers cursed?

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  No, no, but the way, the way you talk about like dumb shit you did in college that you know the statute of limitations is gone on. You know what I mean? Like I, I've talked a number of times about the fact that I, right out of college, was on Who Wants to be a Millionaire and won 50 grand. And they send you the whole check and you're responsible for the taxes. And I, you know, gambled a lot. And when the taxes were due, I had what I had and I paid what I thought I could and whatever. I, I say that knowing that was 20 years ago. I think I'm in the clear, maybe I'm not, I don't know. I, I think I'm fine.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  I can't imagine someone, you wouldn't talk about robbing a bank like that. This guy's talking about murder. Just like, and it also gives you a really interesting window into the intoxicating glow of attention. Like this guy's like, I am going, I got away with the most famous murder ever, allegedly, or I do, I don't say allegedly anymore.

• 1:26:04Bill Simmons?

  Famous hip hop murder ever.

• 1:26:05Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, yeah. Good point. Sorry. The, well, but it's also one of the most famous unsolved murders is what I.

• 1:26:12Bill Simmons?

  Well, it also was Conspiracy Bill, who's been around for a long time.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:16Bill Simmons?

  Mid 90s Conspiracy Bill was really, really something. And, uh, I had a lot of theories about this, including, including Diddy and Suge Knight doing it together because Tupac had already served his purpose. Diddy wanted to get rid of him. Suge got all the royalties for whatever and that, like Conspiracy Bill had lots of thoughts on this.

• 1:26:37Speaker 01

  How did this, how did this confession sit with Conspiracy Bill's?

• 1:26:40Bill Simmons?

  Like, I would say a little disappointment, cause I really liked my Diddy Suge theory. Yeah, I was like, it was, it was a no. Nathan from Appleton, Wisconsin, you're gonna love this question. He just asked, how the hell did it take so long for Ben Simmons and the Sacramento Kings to find each other? And I was thinking, perfect matches ever. Jeff George on the Raiders was great.

• 1:27:08Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:09Bill Simmons?

  Bill Walton going to the Clippers when he was destined to have 30 foot surgeries, perfect. Remember when the Jail Boysers drafted Quintel Woods, right? When they were already having so many problems, they were like, hey, there's a first round pick who's in a dogfighting scandal? You're in. And then, uh, Brandon Weeden on the Browns, I wrote down too, was just a great one. When the Browns were really starting to seem like, oh, man, this expansion era of the Browns has been really rough. And then they spent a first rounder on him. Those are four. What's your favorite perfect match though? Just off the top of your head. I didn't prep you.

• 1:27:42Speaker 01

  The, right. So that is, I've got.

• 1:27:46Bill Simmons?

  It has to be a bad franchise.

• 1:27:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Has to be a bad franchise.

• 1:27:51Bill Simmons?

  Could be any sport and somebody who, maybe it doesn't have to be a bad franchise. Maybe it could be any franchise.

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  I mean, I.

• 1:27:59Bill Simmons?

  I should've sent this one to you ahead of time.

• 1:28:01Speaker 01

  This, can I give you a different take on this real quick?

• 1:28:04Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, go.

• 1:28:04Speaker 01

  Since I don't have a great answer. I really would have liked, and I'm not trying to take shots here, the guy works, does good work, uh, and I understand he serves a purpose. But inside the mental negotiation Shams had with himself on, when I announced this, I really have to put three time All-Star Ben Simmons as the qualifier.

• 1:28:30Bill Simmons?

  Oh, and they sent him what to say? Yeah.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  If you read the, if you read the Shams bomb on the Ben Simmons tweet, it's, it's three time All-Star Ben Simmons is signing with the Sacramento Kings. And I'm like, man, I really don't think that is getting, you know, the requisite information across as to why he's available for the league minimum. I'm also stunned he wants to play. Stunned.

• 1:28:58Bill Simmons?

  But it's, so if you had to say over, under for Ben Simmons has left the Kings or Ben Simmons is retiring from the Kings or Ben Simmons has asked for his release or whoever, does he make it to opening day?

• 1:29:14Speaker 01

  So here's, yes, I think he makes it to opening day. And I would also argue if he makes it to Thanksgiving, he'll make it through the whole year. I think it's just, it's, it's the, the initial piece of it. And maybe it is, maybe he just playing in obscurity for that team is what in theory he needed, but it is, he seemed to be pretty happy doing his fishing thing, occasionally making fun of the Sixers, like what, whatever it is, but I don't, I don't expect him to play when they play in Philly, which by the way, I didn't tell you, uh, when the Kings play in Philly, that's one of many games almost assuredly be at, as you're looking

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  at a very proud Philadelphia 76ers season ticket holder, Bill Simmons.

• 1:30:02Bill Simmons?

  Since when?

• 1:30:04Speaker 01

  Uh, since they signed LeBron James.

• 1:30:07Bill Simmons?

  Come on.

• 1:30:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's an hour and, it's an hour and 42 minutes from my house.

• 1:30:12Bill Simmons?

  You gonna be in the helicopter with him flying back?

• 1:30:14Speaker 01

  No, I'm not gonna be in the helicopter. I have, I have mapped out the, the first things first to the Sixers arena. And I'm really, I gotta tell you, I, considering LeBron's teams have been eligible for 306 playoff games and LeBron has played in 306 of them, your whole like, ah, well, you know, is, you, you lump LeBron in with Embiid on, is he gonna be available for the playoffs? Yeah, he's gonna be available.

• 1:30:41Bill Simmons?

  He, this is, we've never seen this ever.

• 1:30:43Speaker 01

  In the last three years, those last three years, he's 22nd in the NBA in minutes. He's played more minutes in the last three years than Jalen Brown, I believe. He's available. LeBron's not an injury risk. He's available.

• 1:30:57Bill Simmons?

  This email was from Todd speaking LeBron. He's vacationing in Ocean City, New Jersey. There are always Philly player shirts for sale, Embiid, Maxey, et cetera. This week I walked into a t-shirt store and it was all LeBron, nobody else. I asked the guy at the counter, where are the Jalen Brown shirts? His response, who? Tough start for JB. That's, that's your Ocean City update. And then here's another one, speaking of, uh, going back and forth. If I was an NBA, this is from Adam. If I was an NBA superstar who lived in New York City but played in Philly, I would 100% rather have my own train or at least my own private train car that I could take back and forth instead of a helicopter. I do think there are legit benefits to LeBron having his own train.

• 1:31:42Bill Simmons?

  It would not be the standard Amtrak interior. He could have massage, stretching table, hot tub, ice bath, you name it, it's in there. I would love to be at a real world crossing and see the Le Caboose go by.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  That's a great take.

• 1:31:57Bill Simmons?

  He could get his own car, you, you knock out all the seats.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:02Bill Simmons?

  Maybe it's just one, maybe it's just one train with the little thing in the front.

• 1:32:06Speaker 01

  Or, or, yeah, I mean, or maybe it's part of the regular train, but it's just like just a private car that's only for him.

• 1:32:13Bill Simmons?

  Um, so it'd have to be like the 1115 train back to New York City, but Le Caboose is on it?

• 1:32:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Just on it. Um, I don't know that I, I don't, I don't necessarily, I'm not as convinced as everyone else that he's living full time in New York City.

• 1:32:29Bill Simmons?

  No, he'll do what JJ did. JJ had, JJ bought a place in Brooklyn, cause he had, you know, family and young children. And then I think he might've had an apartment in Philly, but he went, he would drive back to Brooklyn, but then sometimes stay in Philly if they're, you know, he had to.

• 1:32:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, can do either one.

• 1:32:46Bill Simmons?

  It's time for a new segment and it's called Greatest Plays of All Time. Brought to you by State Farm. We've witnessed some truly legendary plays throughout football history. Plays that can never be recreated because they're designed for that precise moment on the field. It's the same reason why State Farm helps personalize coverage. You need a plan designed to suit your unique situation. Iconic plays. So I'm a child of the seventies. The Immaculate Reception, which I was probably too young to be watching that game. And there was never the right camera angle for what happened. And Franco Harris picked up the ball that got bounced up in the air and runs for the touchdown. But that was like the first famous play I ever remember hearing about.

• 1:33:26Bill Simmons?

  I actually was watching the Hail Mary play of Roger Staubach to Drew Pearson in the Cowboys game. I think it was against the Vikings. And I think that was where they got the name The Hail Mary from, but I do remember that one. And then I was there for the helmet catch sadly. That's one of the most famous plays ever. I think the single most famous play in the history of football is the Malcolm Butler interception. Because the Seahawks were about to win the Super Bowl and then the Patriots won the Super Bowl. And it's one specific play that flipped the game. I still think that's the number one most famous play in the history of the league. Maybe I'm wrong. It was also the Patriots won the Super Bowl, so I hope I'm right.

• 1:34:10Bill Simmons?

  Anyway, when it comes to coverage, you need a game plan that fits your unique situation. State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

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• 1:35:53Bill Simmons?

  Okay, this is from CJ from Long Island. He said his group chat got into a debate over the movie The Mighty Ducks. Not about the quality of the movie itself, which we can all agree is one of the greatest of all time. We couldn't figure out what was the most serious crime someone could commit where the judge waves jail time, looks you in the eye and says, I'm sending to you the head coach of Pee Wee hockey team. Is it tax evasion, mid-level white collar inciting trading scheme, et cetera, et cetera? Let's be honest, managing the group chat logistics, negotiating rotation minutes with angry finance dads, dealing with kids who bring goldfish crackers to the bench, et cetera, et cetera.

• 1:36:36Bill Simmons?

  Are we sure one year at Rikers wouldn't be easier than two years of coaching nine-year-olds in a hockey team? I'm sure it's somewhere between drunk driving and domestic terrorism for the severity of the offense. What do you think the offense was?

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  So I think the offense would have to be one, like I think anything that is considered like immoral is the wrong word. But drunk driving, you're not like, I understand.

• 1:36:59Bill Simmons?

  You're not coaching a hockey team after that.

• 1:37:01Speaker 01

  You're not coaching a hockey team. Any type of violence, they're not being like, listen, go be around kids.

• 1:37:07Bill Simmons?

  So this is a financial penalty, probably.

• 1:37:09Speaker 01

  It has to be a financial crime and it has to be, it almost would have to be like embezzlement. And part of your defense was like, I'm, you know, I have a family member that's sick and I'm trying to pay for their treatment. They have to feel like you, you're dead on committed the crime, but also you're not a bad guy.

• 1:37:34Bill Simmons?

  Your mom needed $40,000 for a liver transplant.

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  Yes, and so you just stone stole it. But it was, you know, you felt, you didn't feel good about it. It felt bad. I think that's the answer.

• 1:37:47Bill Simmons?

  Cause Hardball did this too. Keanu ends up coaching that team.

• 1:37:51Speaker 01

  What did he do?

• 1:37:51Bill Simmons?

  Because he, he had a rich friend who got slapped on the wrist and they told him he had to coach this team and he didn't want to do it. So he paid Keanu to coach the team. That's what happened. Hardball, all time classic.

• 1:38:05Speaker 01

  Never seen it.

• 1:38:06Bill Simmons?

  Isaac says, we talk about certain types of players that became extinct in the NBA. Like bruising post-up power forwards, big body centers, et cetera. Shooting guards who can't shoot. With Russell Westbrook officially being retired, it got me wondering if the super explosive above the rim guard is now extinct. Derrick Rose, John Wall, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Westbrook. These aren't players that GMs want on a winning team anymore. Are these guards a thing of the past? I used to call these guards zero guards because they weren't a one or a two. They were, and not zero, like meaning they're bad players, just like they're not a one or a two. They're a guard who has the ball all the time. They're going to have a high usage rate and they're going to, their field goal attempts are going to be up.

• 1:38:50Bill Simmons?

  Can this player work anymore in the NBA?

• 1:38:54Speaker 01

  So I, if, so I have a controversial opinion on this. If they can't, then we need to change the rules.

• 1:39:05Bill Simmons?

  So you want more Russell Westbrook type players?

• 1:39:08Speaker 01

  I want, I want less finesse shooting and less analytically inclined basketball and more. I'm the best fucking athlete out here and that's my.

• 1:39:21Bill Simmons?

  I'm balls to the wall and I'm going to get my stats and this is what's going to happen.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Right, and I, and the dunking piece is actually a big part of it. I, like, people talk about Iverson and Westbrook and I understand why, but watching them play was very different. Cause Iverson was entirely under the rim and Russ was, you know, at his peak, so much above the rim. Which brings me to my favorite take of my own when it comes to the NBA, which is, we have talked a ton about the three-point revolution and, and I think you and I have talked about this before, once already. And Goldsberry's, you know, let everybody draw their own line, different things.

• 1:40:05Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  And different things you can do. And my answer, and I will bring it up again, is dunks worth three? Dunks worth three fixes a lot of things. You can keep everything else the same.

• 1:40:18Bill Simmons?

  I've seen you do this one. It's a really good take. I'm proud of you. It's one of your best.

• 1:40:22Speaker 01

  I did it to you. I did it. You haven't seen me do it.

• 1:40:25Bill Simmons?

  No, but you've done it. This is in your, this is like, this is your Seinfeld. Why don't they make the plane out of the black box?

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  I realized when I was halfway through it, I'm like, oh shit, I already told Bill this.

• 1:40:39Bill Simmons?

  No, no, no.

• 1:40:40Speaker 01

  But I was too deep.

• 1:40:41Bill Simmons?

  It's one of your best takes. I think you should redo it.

• 1:40:43Speaker 01

  It just, I just don't, the point that I'm making is very simple. I, a big part of what I like watching about basketball is crazy athleticism. And I feel like under the analytically inclined era that we're in, that's less important than ever. You know what I mean? Like that is, and I don't, I don't think that is good for the sport.

• 1:41:07Bill Simmons?

  We're rewarding Sam Merrill and not Russell Westbrook.

• 1:41:11Speaker 01

  Yes, and I don't like that. That's the thing.

• 1:41:14Bill Simmons?

  I do think though, creating your own three-point line, depending on what team you have.

• 1:41:18Speaker 01

  It's one of the coolest ideas ever.

• 1:41:20Bill Simmons?

  I was at Fenway Park last week.

• 1:41:22Speaker 01

  I know, it's so fun.

• 1:41:24Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, which I, I've obviously been to a ton of games there, but every time I go, I always, I look around and I marvel at how fucking insane the actual park is. Like how they built it, how like behind third base, the fans just come in and there's like no foul territory in the left. You have this giant wall. You have the right field bleachers way back, but you have this foul pole that's like 311 feet. That you basically have to curve the ball around the foul pole, anything in the right, any kind of bomb to right field, really hard to hit it out. But it's cool. It's different. It stands out.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  It's cool. It's different. It stands out. And the other, there are a lot of benefits to the create your own three-point line. Most notably, or the top two would be one, you would need to build a team that can win a bunch of different ways. You would like the, you would need, you, you could have the way you play, but you also would be like, oh shoot. The best team in the league has Joker and they have decided they're not having a three-point line. Like, do we have a way to play in those games?

• 1:42:28Bill Simmons?

  I think you would have to decide before the year.

• 1:42:31Speaker 01

  Yes. No, that's what I'm saying.

• 1:42:32Bill Simmons?

  You couldn't do it series to series, but like.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:42:35Bill Simmons?

  But the Knicks, the Knicks maybe would have, would have spaced, you know, made the arc even bigger because towns can make 26 footers. Like, I don't know, it would have been a fun one.

• 1:42:46Speaker 01

  And then lastly, the other thing it would do is it would make the regular season so much more important. Because you would definitively care about home court advantage.

• 1:42:57Bill Simmons?

  Well, how about a team that just said, fuck it, we're not having a three-point line?

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:43:02Bill Simmons?

  Yeah, we just don't, we're not going to have one.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  So if you're, if Denver was like, we're not having one, we just think Joker, I don't know if they'd be the right example. The Bucks with Giannis a few years ago, whomever's like, we're not having one. And you're in their conference. You're like, we better have a better record than them. Cause we can't beat them. If you're the Steph Warriors, you're like, we can't beat them four out of seven with no threes. We can't. So it just makes things, the regular season more important.

• 1:43:29Bill Simmons?

  It would be funny if Denver did it where they just, they had no corner threes and it was just a straight line 25 feet. Just for Jamal Murray because he likes that top of the three. So it's like the only decent shot.

• 1:43:40Speaker 01

  I like a lot of ideas. I like it just maybe being like a little circle, like just one little spot, but go ahead.

• 1:43:46Bill Simmons?

  This is really the last one because we, we've gone too long anyway. This is from Scott Turner. He's wondering when songs reach a certain point of cultural saturation, should they be banned for five years? Not bad songs, overplayed songs. Two great candidates, Don't Stop Believin' and Sweet Caroline. I like both songs, but we as a society, a society have abused them and wore them out. It's impossible to go to any kind of party or game without hearing them. How great would those songs sound if you just hadn't heard them for five years? I think the Killers have hit this point too. With Mr. Brightside.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:44:24Bill Simmons?

  There's two that, there's another one that they're playing in sporting events all the time now, and it's making me kind of feel like the Killers are a little fucked out now.

• 1:44:33Speaker 01

  Also, Don't Stop Believin' and Sweet Caroline also have to, they either intentionally or unintentionally, if they are played in an event, send a signal. This event's for white people. Like if it's, it's so like that. And again, I'm not saying there's not non-white people that don't love that song. Obviously there are. What I'm saying is that is a click, like it is like, if that is the anthem.

• 1:45:04Bill Simmons?

  So Sweet Caroline you're saying is the whitest, whitest song to sing in a group.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's pretty good. If you feel like this is gonna like the, um.

• 1:45:13Bill Simmons?

  I would say actually Rocky Mountain High kind of, kind of took the mantle in the World Cup.

• 1:45:18Speaker 01

  Maybe. The Royals briefly, uh, when I was there doing radio post-college, um, did, uh, they played every game Low Places by Garth Brooks, like the Red Sox do Sweet Caroline.

• 1:45:33Bill Simmons?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  And I was like, guys, this is not good for like our rep as a city. Like we gotta do better there. So I agree, I like your idea of the, there or your emailer's idea of, okay, we'll appreciate this more. I mean, there have been really bad songs.

• 1:45:52Bill Simmons?

  Let's give it a break.

• 1:45:53Speaker 01

  Let's give it a break. Who let the dogs out hit this, it needed that 20 years ago. Like there have been songs that hit the.

• 1:46:01Bill Simmons?

  Well, remember Outkast, Heya? Just got beaten in the ground as bad as any song ever.

• 1:46:06Speaker 01

  That one Nelly Furtado's song?

• 1:46:08Bill Simmons?

  Oh, that was another one. There was a pink one. Uh, coming out, cause you gotta get this party started like that. Remember that was in basketball for three straight years? Every NBA game. But I'm worried about the Killers. The Killers should stand up for themselves a little bit.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  If anything from this podcast gets aggregated, I hope it's just the two seconds of you singing.

• 1:46:30Bill Simmons?

  Me singing? That's fine.

• 1:46:31Speaker 01

  That's all I want.

• 1:46:33Bill Simmons?

  Listen, it's part of the deal when we do this stuff. Uh, Nick Wright, the What's Right? Oh, go ahead.

• 1:46:39Speaker 01

  No, you're about to promote What's Right with Nick Wright. I appreciate that, but, um, I will be thinking about you if Wednesday night looks like the last football game we saw. That would be concerning. There's a lot of ways to be very optimistic.

• 1:46:54Bill Simmons?

  Be more concerned about my starting cornerback who made the All-Pro team last year, who doesn't have a contract and might just be like, I'm not playing tonight.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  If he doesn't play, it's an all-time story. It's an all-time story if he doesn't play.

• 1:47:07Bill Simmons?

  This is such, it's, it's an unforced error, not on the level of the Clippers just giving Uncle Dennis carpal to send them crazy bills. Nick Wright, the What's Right podcast, as well as First Things First with half cigarette smoker Kevin Wilds and Chris Broussard.

• 1:47:22Speaker 01

  He's gonna be so mad when he hears this. Thanks, Bill.

• 1:47:24Bill Simmons?

  Can't wait. Good to see you. Thank you. All right, that's it for the pod. Thanks to Nick Wright, thanks to Eduardo and Gahal as well. I am not going to be back until Wednesday night, live on Netflix, right after the Patriots Seahawks game. We'll see what kind of condition I'm in, but I will see you on Wednesday night.

• 1:48:03Bill Simmons?

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