Don Lemon: The Cost of Candor

This week, Trevor and Eugene are joined by journalist Don Lemon for a very entertaining and wide-ranging conversation. Don opens up about his high-profile exit from CNN, getting arrested while reporting, and why, four months after his arrest, the government still won’t return his phone. From there, the trio dives into the decline of authenticity in modern media, the politics of identity and belonging, and why love is love is love. Along the way, they make plenty of room for humor, unpacking relationship dynamics, internet gossip, and a brutally honest review of the Kevin Hart roast.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Speaker 00

  Should I tell my age?

• 0:05Trevor Noah?

  If we walked in the streets together now, the three of us, I'm not even guessing up. If we walked together in the streets, people would not go, why are they with that old guy?

• 0:13Speaker 00

  No way.

• 0:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, they would just be like your friend. They might even say your brother to me. They'd be like, oh, you were here with, I think he's your brother.

• 0:20Speaker 00

  And I would go, I try to do your accent, but I can't. That is my brother.

• 0:27Speaker 00

  I don't know, should I tell my age here? I don't know.

• 0:29Trevor Noah?

  You can tell your age.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  I turned sixty, I turned sixty this year. No way.

• 0:36Trevor Noah?

  Don, you look good.

• 0:37Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 0:37Trevor Noah?

  Like, you look good, good.

• 0:38Speaker 00

  Thank you. Like, I'm not aside, but I'm just saying, man. I was gonna say. I would, I'm not, I'm not aside, but Don, yo, you look good. I'm Mary Trevor.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  Back off.

• 0:54Trevor Noah?

  This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

• 1:02Trevor Noah?

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• 1:37Trevor Noah?

  This segment is brought to you by Google Pixel. You know what's really frustrating? Knowing the exact information you need is somewhere on your phone, but still ending up wasting your time digging through five different apps just to actually find it. Thankfully, Google Pixel 11 is designed with Gemini intelligence, so it can proactively find the information I need right when I need it. Like my flight info on travel days or my calendar when Eugene texts me to hang out. Oh, sorry Eugene, I'm booked. Learn more about what Google Pixel 11 can do at googlestore.com. These AI features are available in select countries and languages for users 18 and over, and make sure to check responses.

• 2:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, booked forever, forever. This episode is brought to you by Verizon.

• 2:29Trevor Noah?

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• 3:14Trevor Noah?

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• 3:43Trevor Noah?

  I have a pitch for a business or a structure that we can implement in society. Where we find the way...

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Is it a business? Or is it a structure that can implement in society?

• 3:54Trevor Noah?

  I don't know. I don't know which one will work more effectively. That's why I'm saying it's just a pitch. But basically, what we do is, we get... We find a way to let everyone live in everyone's houses when they're not there. Listen, wait, you can't vote against it before I'm finished. You can't vote against it before I'm finished.

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 4:14Trevor Noah?

  So this is what I'm saying. Most of the time, our houses are all empty, everywhere in the world.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:19Trevor Noah?

  Most, most abodes are empty.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:22Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 4:22Speaker 02

  And most are not humble.

• 4:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes, that's true. But like, I just think there could be a way for us to figure out a system where... Okay, because let's be honest, let's be honest. The main reason you don't want someone living in your house is why? Let's list a few reasons. No, no, no, just give me the reasons.

• 4:38Speaker 02

  Why are you making this about our pet peeves?

• 4:40Trevor Noah?

  Wait, wait, wait, I'm asking you.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Get out with your proposal so we can shoot down with a clear conscience.

• 4:44Speaker 00

  Are you guys rolling on this shit?

• 4:47Trevor Noah?

  Okay. I want to show you that this is well thought out.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Okay, sharp.

• 4:50Speaker 00

  Is this African on African crime?

• 4:54Trevor Noah?

  What's the fear, one of us?

• 4:56Speaker 00

  Can I just, I just observed something? Can I, can I jump in?

• 5:00Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, of course.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Anytime.

• 5:01Speaker 00

  So, uh, this is, uh, what do you call it when, um, oh shit. When you, your, your accent is heavier now when you're speaking to him.

• 5:12Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely.

• 5:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:13Trevor Noah?

  One hundred percent. Code switching is what people call it.

• 5:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're code, you're code switching.

• 5:17Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  We're not even talking for two hours, we're gonna talk to you in different.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  You're gonna say it's gonna happen to you. When you were on The Daily Show, you were talking like a white kind of, I'm kidding.

• 5:25Speaker 00

  And now you're like, hey man.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  I'm your white guy impression.

• 5:27Speaker 00

  Hey man, hey man.

• 5:28Trevor Noah?

  You know, you know what's funny is actually, no, it's, it's funny that you said that.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:33Trevor Noah?

  For the first.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  I don't think I forgot about your proposal.

• 5:35Trevor Noah?

  No, I'm gonna get back to it. For the first.

• 5:37Speaker 00

  He proposed to you?

• 5:38Trevor Noah?

  Six months to a year that I was on The Daily Show.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:41Trevor Noah?

  The amount of hate mail that we got because of my accent, Don.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  No.

• 5:46Trevor Noah?

  It was, I, I felt like I had to go for elocution lessons. People would say, he can't, so there were words that people just refused. So for instance, in South Africa, when we're referring to the plural of a woman.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:59Trevor Noah?

  We say, woman. That's how we say it, woman.

• 6:03Speaker 00

  Woman.

• 6:03Trevor Noah?

  Woman.

• 6:04Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 6:05Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 6:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:06Trevor Noah?

  Americans say?

• 6:07Speaker 00

  Women.

• 6:07Trevor Noah?

  Women, exactly, as if it's not an O.

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Like if it's W E M E N.

• 6:11Trevor Noah?

  Exactly, you say it like it's W E M E N, so you say like women. And then in South Africa, we say, woman, the way it's written.

• 6:18Speaker 02

  Water.

• 6:19Trevor Noah?

  And then, I mean, that one, obviously, water, water.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  The reason we say it that way is because this is America, right? And people like to go, you know, I am not, there's only two genders, we men.

• 6:30Trevor Noah?

  No, so like, so there was that one? What is the other?

• 6:35Speaker 02

  It's too early now.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

• 6:39Trevor Noah?

  What is, what is the other one I was saying? I mean, there's the obvious, um, aluminium. And I don't know why aluminium was in the script so much. Things were happening in the American government with aluminium.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  You never had to say mirror.

• 6:50Trevor Noah?

  Um, mirror, I would say.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Mirror?

• 6:52Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, mirror. I wouldn't say mirror. I would say mirror. And people go, this is, but it was a deluge, as they would say, of people complaining.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Deluge.

• 7:02Trevor Noah?

  You see? Deluge.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  Lots of water.

• 7:05Trevor Noah?

  Yo.

• 7:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 7:07Trevor Noah?

  And all they said.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  Every time.

• 7:08Trevor Noah?

  They would go, this person has no business replacing Jon Stewart's. And beyond just his terrible aptitude for American politics, he can't even speak.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  No way.

• 7:19Trevor Noah?

  Please deal with this. And then I would have to sit and try and, I was like, how do you say these words? What am I saying? Wha- what am I saying wrong? And so I, over time, I genuinely had to learn how to say some of the words in a way.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  But that happens naturally, I think. I mean.

• 7:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but not, not when people are watching you.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Those hate mails were not.

• 7:35Trevor Noah?

  Was that really? What was it like for you? When you, when did you start? Cause I mean, I just found.

• 7:38Speaker 00

  Well, I came from Louisiana. That's like another language. Um, so I, I, I lost my southern accent because I would listen to my voice all the time as a local reporter. And you know, you'd be in the audio booth recording a track for a story and you, you hear your voice and you're like, I don't like the way that sounds. And so it just naturally corrected itself over time. And I felt like during the show that probably would have happened to you. But I never had an issue understanding you. I had, I honestly, and this is no shade.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  The only accent, there are two accents I have an issue with, or that I can't understand, don't have an issue with it. That it's hard for me to understand after really listening. They have to slow down. Scottish.

• 8:11Trevor Noah?

  Scottish can be hard.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  And Indian.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  So why did you say no shade to me? I'm neither Scottish or Indian.

• 8:16Speaker 00

  No, but I'm saying, we're just talking about accents, Eugene. Jesus.

• 8:21Speaker 00

  Why are you so sensitive?

• 8:22Speaker 02

  You said no shade and you were like, Scottish.

• 8:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 8:25Speaker 02

  And Indian.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  I meant no shade to the Scottish and the Indians who may be watching.

• 8:28Trevor Noah?

  Let's be honest, you've often been referred to as the Scottish Indian of southern.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I have to like, I have to, it's gotta slow down in order for me to understand.

• 8:38Trevor Noah?

  It depends on, yeah, it depends on where. I think like, so Glaswegian accent, the Glaswegian accent can be really.

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Those are people from Glasgow.

• 8:45Trevor Noah?

  Glasgow.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  They're called Glaswegians.

• 8:47Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. And then Edinburgh has a, a much softer one.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  Edinburgh.

• 8:51Trevor Noah?

  It's a lot, it's a lot easier to, to, to hear. But Indian, doesn't, isn't that easy for you?

• 8:56Speaker 00

  If they, they have a tendency to speak fast. Right, Scottish, right, and some Irish people, I'm like, if you're going too fast, I'm like, wait a minute, please say that again. And many times over the phone, if someone calls you and they're Indian, I just say, you have to really, like, can you please slow down? I don't understand. The second time they say it, you understand it, but.

• 9:12Trevor Noah?

  And then you're like, no, I don't want spam calls, thank you very much. Hang up, please. I do not want spam. Cause why is a random Indian.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  I've never had an Indian call.

• 9:20Trevor Noah?

  You've never?

• 9:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:21Trevor Noah?

  Oh, in, so in, in, in America, most of the spam calls will come from like India, cause that's where they've outsourced all of the call centers to.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:28Trevor Noah?

  We don't have it in South Africa from India.

• 9:31Speaker 00

  I did notice in your comedy special that I thought your accent was, was coming back or heavier than when you were on the show.

• 9:36Trevor Noah?

  Well, thank you very much, Don.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  But not in a bad way. I mean, I like it.

• 9:40Trevor Noah?

  I didn't think in a bad way until you just said, but not in a bad way.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  I never know when you're like being sarcastic or.

• 9:46Trevor Noah?

  Until Don said, but not in a bad way. I didn't think it was in a bad, you said, I noticed your accent is coming back, Trevor. And then I was like, thank you, Don, and you went, but not in a bad way. And I was like, ah, in a bad way.

• 9:56Speaker 00

  I should have just said respectfully.

• 9:59Trevor Noah?

  You probably, you probably struggle with those accents because your ear is slow because you come from the south.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  My, I know I have a lazy tongue. I know my tongue is slow.

• 10:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Cause you know, that's the thing, right?

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:10Trevor Noah?

  So depending on where you're from.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Is that what they call it? Like when you have.

• 10:15Trevor Noah?

  Is it? The, the drawl?

• 10:16Speaker 00

  Drawl.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  Southern drawl.

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Southern drawl.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Southern drawl.

• 10:19Trevor Noah?

  Can you, so when you go home, can you still do it?

• 10:21Speaker 00

  I, it just comes back. And then when I come back to New York, my husband will say, I can tell when you've been home. And I say, why? And he says, because listen to how you sound and you look bloated from all the fricking

• 10:35Speaker 00

  salty and bad food that you're eating. So I go and I gain 10 pounds and I end up saying, hey, instead of like, like when I'm in New York or whatever, I'm like, mom, what are you doing? And then I go home, I come back, I'm like, mama. Mama, can you, I want some eggs, mom, please. And you just get that, you just, hey.

• 10:52Trevor Noah?

  You gotta do that more, you should do like reports from home, just to like give us like a different Don Lemon. Like, cause now I'm picturing you. Don Lemon.

• 11:01Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that's.

• 11:02Trevor Noah?

  That's like a, you know, Don Lemon, my good friend, Don Lemon, reporting live.

• 11:06Speaker 00

  Every once in a while it comes out and someone will make fun of it, but every once in a while I'll say something and like my husband Tim will go, y'all. And I'm like.

• 11:14Speaker 02

  You know what? Tim needs to stop.

• 11:16Trevor Noah?

  We need to talk to Tim.

• 11:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, because, I mean.

• 11:19Trevor Noah?

  All three of us here are people from the south.

• 11:21Speaker 02

  And also, you know what I, what freaks me out is, oh, actually doesn't freak me out, makes me laugh, is when we're back home.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  And then white people. Hear Trevor speaking Isuzu, it freaks them out all the time.

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Really?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  Freaks them out.

• 11:35Trevor Noah?

  I don't know why South African languages, people get thrown off. I guess, but I take for granted for for many people in South Africa for, at least for a generation. They only knew me from The Daily Show ironically, so.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  From South Africa.

• 11:49Trevor Noah?

  Because when I left South Africa, there's a generation that knew me from South Africa, doing comedy, doing shows, etc. I come to the US, I do The Daily Show, there's a whole new generation that grows up only knowing me from The Daily Show.

• 12:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:01Trevor Noah?

  So like I'll meet kids now who are, let's say like twenty four, somewhere there. And then when I speak Zulu or Zulu or anything, they go.

• 12:10Trevor Noah?

  What? Where did you learn that? Where did I learn that? These are my languages.

• 12:17Trevor Noah?

  He's been with me.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  It's like when you see a black man speaking Chinese.

• 12:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, it's literally that. It is literally that.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  What? Where does that come from?

• 12:24Speaker 02

  That's my favorite, that's my favorite thing when people.

• 12:26Speaker 00

  How honest can we be in this? How how candid can we be in this?

• 12:29Trevor Noah?

  A thousand go.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  I really miss you on The Daily Show, like really miss you. I don't know what happened, not my business, I felt like.

• 12:37Trevor Noah?

  Well, you can ask any questions.

• 12:38Speaker 00

  I feel like, maybe I'm wrong, I felt like they undervalued what you brought to The Daily Show. And I would have, I would have, I would have fought tooth and nail to keep you.

• 12:46Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no, honestly, they didn't, no, honestly, they didn't, no, there was no, there was no fight, there was no shade, there was no nothing. All that happened was, I was, I'd been doing The Daily Show, it was going on seven years, right? The thing that happened was, so there are a few ideas I have of life that are not congruent with how Americans run their businesses sometimes. Okay, so one of them is, I do not believe that everything has to go on forever. I also believe that people should take breaks.

• 13:14Speaker 00

  I agree.

• 13:15Trevor Noah?

  In both directions, by the way.

• 13:16Speaker 00

  Both of those things.

• 13:17Trevor Noah?

  Right, so I think you should give an audience a break, and you should give staff a break, and you should give, like, I like that SNL, for instance, goes off for a few months.

• 13:25Speaker 00

  Right.

• 13:25Trevor Noah?

  I like that, I think it's good. I like that TV shows go away and then come back. John Oliver takes like a few months off around December, January, comes back in February. I like that. And so my pitch was, hey. I love what we're doing here, but I'd just like to take more time. I wanna get back home to South Africa. My accent is fading. People are noticing this.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  You're I need my hair to grow out.

• 13:45Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, man, I wanna like, you know, I wanna I I still there's aspects of my life that I miss.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  Hmm.

• 13:50Trevor Noah?

  And they were like, no, man, The Daily Show has to happen the way it does every single. I was like, I think there's another way this could happen. And they're like, no. And then I was like, okay, it's fine. If you don't agree, then we don't agree. But there's no beef. There's no fight. My contract is gonna come to an end. So then let's let's just wrap it up.

• 14:07Speaker 00

  I understand. I didn't say there was a beef or a fight, but I would I would have thought I would have given you what you want. If you needed some time off, I would have given you it and I would have had like if they wanted, I would.

• 14:15Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 14:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, cuz I really thought that you were really valuable in that position. But I also think you're valuable in what you're doing now. I love what you're doing now. And I love how you like. You got a perm now and your hair. You actually have black hair, like as we say nappy. Before you had good hair. What happened? What'd you do?

• 14:36Trevor Noah?

  Don, are you sure you're from?

• 14:37Speaker 00

  You know what's funny? You you know her. Dulce, man, it was one of the funniest things cuz you and Dulce, I've not done a few things together, but Dulce Sloan, we had The Daily Show together.

• 14:46Trevor Noah?

  So Covid happens.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:49Trevor Noah?

  Nobody has a barber. I'm not gonna risk trying to cut my own hair. My hair grows out.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 14:55Trevor Noah?

  I realized I only cut my hair frequently because I had been.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  On the show.

• 15:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but also like I'd been forced into it in life. So in school and in South Africa, we we we had this uh come up again recently. If you had white hair, you can sort of grow it the way you want.

• 15:12Speaker 02

  Hmm, unprofessional hairstyle.

• 15:13Trevor Noah?

  If you had black hair, they called it unprofessional. They called it unkempt. They called it all these things. So in school, we had to cut our hair if it was this.

• 15:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 15:22Trevor Noah?

  So, you know, this so my whole life, cut the hair, cut the hair, cut the hair, cut the hair. It just becomes part of your life.

• 15:27Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 15:28Trevor Noah?

  Covid happens. My hair grows out. I was like, oh, yeah, I like having hair. I miss this.

• 15:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:32Trevor Noah?

  I bumped my head, it's not that bad. It's warmer, especially in New York.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  Bicycle helmet you're now.

• 15:37Trevor Noah?

  This in New York, lifesaver.

• 15:40Speaker 02

  Really?

• 15:40Trevor Noah?

  Yo, the amount of warmth. In winter.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, in summer?

• 15:43Trevor Noah?

  The amount of warmth, no, in summer, it's a liability.

• 15:45Speaker 02

  Bicycle helmet?

• 15:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:46Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, brah, this is a helmet. What are you talking about?

• 15:49Speaker 00

  In the summer, this is what I do. My hair doesn't grow as long as yours, but in the winter, I let my hair grow.

• 15:54Trevor Noah?

  Oh, you let it grow and then it just gives you a little?

• 15:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, the only reason that I ever really cut my hair was because I was on television.

• 16:00Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Otherwise, I don't care about hair. Uh, I would rather just have it shaved, like, you know, very low, or just let it grow out, but, you know.

• 16:09Trevor Noah?

  What about you? Do you miss being like, you know?

• 16:12Speaker 00

  I don't.

• 16:13Trevor Noah?

  You don't miss it?

• 16:14Speaker 00

  I do not miss it. I, I know it sounds weird, I don't miss it. I did in the beginning. It was weird in the beginning because I was at the matrix of every big important story in the world.

• 16:24Trevor Noah?

  How many years were you at CNN?

• 16:25Speaker 00

  Almost seventeen years.

• 16:26Trevor Noah?

  Seventeen years?

• 16:28Speaker 00

  Almost seventeen years, yeah.

• 16:29Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, and, um, so it was weird, like, I was like, what do I do with my time? But I don't miss having to second guess, I don't know if you felt that way, maybe a little bit different because it was comedy. Kind of, but you were actually educating people in the news. Of like second guessing, third guessing, fourth guessing, everything that came out of my mouth because I represented a brand and like forty-five hundred employees around the world. Some of them in war zones, I had to be careful about what I said. Now I can just say, fuck you, or whatever.

• 16:57Trevor Noah?

  Don's been waiting.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  And, or whatever.

• 17:00Trevor Noah?

  I'll grow my hair and fuck you.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:04Speaker 00

  Like today, as I was recording my show today, there was, you know, the, um, on the official Democratic Twitter account.

• 17:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  The woman posted, um, about Stephen Miller, shut up, you ugly fuck. And I got to talk about that and I said, yeah, Stephen Miller is an ugly fuck.

• 17:20Trevor Noah?

  Damn.

• 17:20Speaker 00

  Right?

• 17:21Trevor Noah?

  Oh, you wouldn't have been able to say that?

• 17:22Speaker 00

  No.

• 17:23Trevor Noah?

  How would you have covered it on CNN? What would you have said?

• 17:26Speaker 00

  I, on CNN, I would have said.

• 17:27Speaker 02

  I'm an attractive funny caterer.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  I would have said, what?

• 17:36Speaker 00

  Unattractive fornicator.

• 17:40Trevor Noah?

  Oh, man.

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 17:43Trevor Noah?

  What do you think he would have said?

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Basically, I would have handled it similarly to how I handled it today. I said, actually, it's not really about physical attractiveness, although, you know, it's also about the policies that he espouses and what he's putting into place and that, you know, him being Islamophobic.

• 18:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  His racism, his sexism, his treatment of immigrants, whatever. Those are ugly qualities. So, yeah, Stephen Miller.

• 18:11Trevor Noah?

  Oh, interesting.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Shut up, you ugly fuck.

• 18:13Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 18:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, so, but I would not have said.

• 18:15Speaker 02

  He's such a diplomat, Don.

• 18:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he is.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I would have said, you know,

• 18:17Speaker 02

  That's amazing.

• 18:18Speaker 00

  I'm gonna talk about, I said, I was gonna talk about Stephen Miller and calling him that. Look, the Democratic Party can do what they want, but let me tell you why Stephen Miller is ugly. And I'm not talking about physically the way he looks. This is how he's ugly. And that would have done that on CNN.

• 18:31Trevor Noah?

  Took a thing.

• 18:31Speaker 00

  But ain't nobody doing that now, because they scared.

• 18:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, everyone is scared, man.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  Except?

• 18:36Trevor Noah?

  Everyone is scared.

• 18:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 18:37Trevor Noah?

  I saw the woman whose segment got pulled by CBS. They just didn't renew her contract.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  Sharon Alfonso.

• 18:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  What did she do?

• 18:46Speaker 00

  She had a story on CCOT, um, just, CCOT, which is, I think, some, um, place where they're housing immigrants and detainees and all that stuff at the CCOT. And then they, the new boss came in, that was great grammar. The new boss came in and is, um, MAGA-coded the, um, the company and the folks who are running the company and just pulled her segment, saying, "We need, we need to get a response from the White House and we need to do more reporting," after it had already been vetted by everyone at 60 Minutes. Like, you don't get. More vetting than sixty minutes.

• 19:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you don't.

• 19:28Speaker 00

  So it was obvious what was happening and she said, what is going on here? This has been vetted by, you know, this number of people and it's gone through our process and it's legit journalism. We all stand by it. And then they said, no, eventually they did. I think they ran it. I'm not sure if they ran it, but they ended up running it

• 19:50Speaker 00

  in foreign countries.

• 19:52Trevor Noah?

  Oh, and not in America.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  Outside of the US and then I guess they didn't, whoever's there don't, they didn't realize that this is gonna run somewhere else.

• 19:57Trevor Noah?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:58Speaker 00

  And so, yeah, she's gone.

• 20:01Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, everyone, everyone is scared.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  Everybody's scared.

• 20:04Trevor Noah?

  What, what's disappointed me is it's equal parts scared and equal parts greed.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Explain the greed part.

• 20:13Trevor Noah?

  So we say that everyone's scared, but I don't think it's only fair. I think a lot of people are putting their greed before the freedoms of the country. All right, and, and a lot of these networks, these news networks, whether it's CBS, whether it's all of them, they're not just scared, they're also thinking about what they wanna do business-wise. They wanna acquire other companies. They want mergers and acquisitions to go through. They want, so because they want that to happen, they're not saying anything.

• 20:42Trevor Noah?

  But they should be saying something, but they won't say something because they want their deals to go through. So I, it, it's like, it's half scared.

• 20:48Speaker 02

  Half greed.

• 20:49Trevor Noah?

  I would argue the people on the ground, like the actual reporters and the journalists, they're scared because they're gonna get fired. You know, did you see this thing where they said they're gonna, um, they actually, they wanna subpoena people's records and like your private, because you know, if you're a journalist, you know it better than we do. Explain it. If you, if you have a source, you don't have to reveal your source.

• 21:09Speaker 00

  You don't have to reveal your source.

• 21:09Trevor Noah?

  Right, but now they're saying they wanna.

• 21:10Speaker 00

  Journalists have privileges. They have, you know,

• 21:14Speaker 00

  privileges like that.

• 21:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 21:16Speaker 00

  I'm going through it right now and I didn't even know about it.

• 21:19Trevor Noah?

  Wait, what?

• 21:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, so when they, uh, you know, they arrested me in, in California.

• 21:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes, what, what happened there? What exactly happened?

• 21:27Speaker 02

  But you were a G about it though. You were like, fuck that. You're like, um. You didn't back down. I thought you were gonna be like, uh, uh, uh.

• 21:39Speaker 02

  Man, I'm going in, man. Going to the pen though.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  Don Julio, I'm going in though.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  You are not scared at all, Don?

• 21:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 21:52Speaker 02

  That was like-

• 21:53Speaker 00

  It was a bit frustrating, but why would I be scared? I'm not scared. I'm not scared of anything.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  I'm scared of jail. Don't even.

• 21:58Speaker 00

  You're scared of-

• 21:59Speaker 02

  Hey, jail.

• 22:00Speaker 00

  Jail, oh.

• 22:02Speaker 02

  Jail.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, but then you think about, I think about the people who did go to jail so that I could be able to sit here and do this. Um, this is nothing compared to that. And look, I have agency, I have a platform, you know, I um, I have resources that most people don't have. So if I became scared about what was happening, then what use am I to the people who really need me to not be scared?

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Hmm, I like that.

• 22:29Speaker 00

  So um, the, what happened was, uh, I went to Minneapolis. Actually, I was on my way. I blamed Jesse Jackson. So I was, and I blamed Dr. King. So I had to go to Chicago because I was hosting the Dr. King Breakfast, uh, sponsored by Jesse Jackson, The Rainbow Push in Chicago. So I was headed there and I started talking, I was, you know, in the kitchen and Tim and I were saying, oh, you know, I gotta go to Chicago, whatever. But Minneapolis is happening. He said, maybe you should make a stopover in Minneapolis. It's like, and I said, you know what? You're right. So I'm just gonna go there in the morning and then I'll go a day earlier. I'll go there and then I'll fly straight to Chicago. Right? I'll just go there for a day and be on the ground. I was on the ground for less than six hours or something like that. And so I just went to report on what was happening.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  And uh, there was, uh, you know, they were at this center where they keep all the people that they detain. And so, but it was too early. I got there early in the morning. It was too early to go there. There was hardly anyone there. And I said, where am I gonna go? What am I gonna cover? And there were people saying, oh, this is happening. You should go cover this. And I said, okay, I'll go cover that.

• 23:32Speaker 02

  And what was the this?

• 23:33Speaker 00

  That they, it was this clandestine operation like the civil rights movement where they show up and they disrupt.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Oh, got it. Okay.

• 23:41Speaker 00

  And so I showed up with them and I was like, oh, they're going into this church. And I said, oh, we're not gonna go and do anything until it happens because then when it happens, it becomes news. Okay, got it, got it, got it. So we do that, go in there, report, do the thing. That I had no connection to the people who were sponsoring this. I didn't know where we were going, uh, cause we had to follow them. And then, um, that was it. And then I started hearing things like, oh, we're gonna arrest him for disrupting, for going in and protesting and disrupting a religious service. I'm like, I didn't do anything. I'm not a protester, I'm a journalist. And what if I had not been there to chronicle it for you? Right? If something had, that's what we do.

• 24:18Trevor Noah?

  Absolutely, yeah.

• 24:18Speaker 00

  Journalists go where the news is. And I got, um, uh, a call from someone who, you know, has been doing this for a long time. And he said, you know what, Don? When John Miller, who was, um, you know, in charge of communications for the NYPD, and then he was a reporter at one point. He said, when John Miller went into the cave with Osama bin Laden, he didn't become a terrorist. He was still a journalist.

• 24:40Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  So when I went into the church to report, I didn't become a protester.

• 24:43Trevor Noah?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:43Speaker 00

  I'm still a journalist. And I, somehow this administration doesn't understand that, so.

• 24:47Trevor Noah?

  Understand it or don't want it to happen?

• 24:49Speaker 00

  There you go.

• 24:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 00

  I don't want to understand, which I think is even more pernicious, right? So, um, I could, they were saying, oh, we're gonna arrest him, they're gonna do this. And they went to two or three, maybe three different sources to get an arrest warrant for me, and it didn't work. So they went to a grand jury, which is just normal, everyday people, and it's a secretive process. And so who knows what they presented to this grand jury in order to come up with an indictment for me? And so I was in the, in LA covering the Grammys. I had just come back from a Spotify party with the photographer who's here. I blame him.

• 25:25Speaker 00

  His name is Anders, and he's like, we were at the party.

• 25:27Trevor Noah?

  Anders, Jesse Jackson, and Dr. King.

• 25:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, so.

• 25:30Trevor Noah?

  We've got this list, we've got this list.

• 25:32Speaker 00

  So Anders, Anders was like, hell, come on, one more, one more margarita, one more margarita. And I was listening to, Anders, who was it, the last person I saw? I forget who it was, I don't know.

• 25:43Speaker 03

  Oh, I don't know.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard.

• 25:46Trevor Noah?

  Kelly's.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  No. No, it's a new group or whatever.

• 25:50Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 25:51Speaker 03

  My young blood.

• 25:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, and so anyways, so watching them, it was great. And then I go back. What?

• 25:57Speaker 03

  Cat's eye.

• 25:58Speaker 00

  Cat's eye, cat's eye, cat's eye.

• 26:00Trevor Noah?

  Got it.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  So, uh, I get back to the hotel, I'm getting onto the elevator, and then I got bum rushed.

• 26:06Trevor Noah?

  That's how it happened.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  That's how it happened. And I was like, what are you doing? They said, we're here to arrest. I said, where's the warrant? They didn't have one. They had to go outside. And as I'm scuffling, trying to get my bearings, they had to go outside, get the FBI agent. And he shows me a warrant on the phone, like a cop, a picture. And I was like, okay, I don't know what that means. But anyway, and so I ended up spending about 12 hours in custody. And I came out and did what you said, but you, you asked me, what happened? That's what happened. And right now, they've had my phone for four months. They took my phone. They've had it for four months.

• 26:42Trevor Noah?

  Like, speaking to you right now, they still have your phone?

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Oh, they still have my phone.

• 26:46Trevor Noah?

  What do you think they're doing with it?

• 26:47Speaker 00

  They wanna go through to, to find evidence. There's nothing there.

• 26:51Trevor Noah?

  But did they, did you give them the passwords? How does it work?

• 26:53Speaker 00

  Evidence of a conspiracy. No, they, look.

• 26:55Trevor Noah?

  What do you mean they don't need it?

• 26:56Speaker 02

  They don't need a password.

• 26:57Speaker 00

  Yes, they do need a password, but go on.

• 27:01Trevor Noah?

  They, they're gonna have to use that software. I don't know if that software still works.

• 27:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:04Trevor Noah?

  What is it? Pegasus? Is that what it's called? I don't remember, but remember there's a software? I think it was first developed in Israel and then it was like sent around the world or people had bought it or whatever, but.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  I'll give you an exclusive.

• 27:15Trevor Noah?

  Go.

• 27:17Speaker 00

  The high, the newer iteration, the, the newer the iteration of the iPhone, the harder it is to get into it.

• 27:24Trevor Noah?

  Oh.

• 27:24Speaker 00

  They can't get into my phone.

• 27:26Trevor Noah?

  Well, there you go. Did they, did they ask you for the password?

• 27:29Speaker 00

  They, initially, they had to ask you.

• 27:30Trevor Noah?

  Did they try and make you look at your phone?

• 27:31Speaker 00

  No.

• 27:32Trevor Noah?

  I've always wondered if they.

• 27:33Speaker 00

  I didn't have it, but.

• 27:34Trevor Noah?

  No, but I'm saying, because I'm saying like, I wonder, because there's a weird thing, I, I, there's a, there's a. If I understand American law correctly, apparently they cannot force you to give them your password.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  They can ask you.

• 27:50Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but they, but they still can't force you.

• 27:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:53Trevor Noah?

  But if it's fingerprint or face, then you do have to do it.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 27:59Trevor Noah?

  And I don't know, I don't understand what the difference is.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  I don't know about that.

• 28:02Trevor Noah?

  I'll, I'll look it up now. I promise you, I promise you.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  Where you gonna look it up?

• 28:05Trevor Noah?

  My man.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  On your phone?

• 28:07Trevor Noah?

  I got you, bruh.

• 28:07Speaker 00

  On your iPhone?

• 28:08Trevor Noah?

  Don't even worry, I got you.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  What's your password?

• 28:10Trevor Noah?

  I got you, bruh. Don't even worry, I got you. I got you, I got you. There's something. Uh, let me, let me.

• 28:16Speaker 00

  Why didn't you hold it up to your face?

• 28:18Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. No, it unlocked when I looked at it.

• 28:22Trevor Noah?

  I've got nothing to hide, don't worry about me.

• 28:24Speaker 02

  You've got nothing to hide?

• 28:24Trevor Noah?

  Ah, me.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  The last thing I want is anyone taking my phone.

• 28:28Trevor Noah?

  What are they gonna find?

• 28:31Speaker 00

  Uh oh, where's your phone?

• 28:33Trevor Noah?

  Eugene, you cannot get prosecuted.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  In fact, I'm even pitching.

• 28:36Speaker 00

  That's what I was gonna say.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  I'm even pitching for penis portraits, as you call them.

• 28:41Speaker 00

  Or butt shots.

• 28:45Speaker 00

  I don't judge, I don't judge. I don't judge. I don't know who's the top and who's the bottom. And it's not my business, I don't care.

• 28:56Trevor Noah?

  Uh, let's see here, I'll find it.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  Or a side, you could be a side.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  You've literally done what we do to each other all the time. That sounds so bad.

• 29:05Speaker 02

  Is this what it sounds like when we?

• 29:07Speaker 00

  So while you're looking.

• 29:08Trevor Noah?

  Wait, did you say a side?

• 29:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, a side. You don't know what a side is?

• 29:10Trevor Noah?

  No, I've never heard of that.

• 29:11Speaker 00

  It's just like, there's no top or bottom, it's your side.

• 29:14Trevor Noah?

  That's a thing?

• 29:15Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:15Trevor Noah?

  I didn't know that.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:17Trevor Noah?

  I knew there was top and bottom, I didn't know that there was a side.

• 29:19Speaker 00

  There's a side.

• 29:20Speaker 02

  Huh, wait, you said a side does what?

• 29:22Speaker 00

  A side just kinda lays there on the side, like you're, you know. Or you take care of yourself, or each other.

• 29:30Trevor Noah?

  Wow, I would have gone with the middle, I don't know why they went with the side.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  It's called a side.

• 29:34Trevor Noah?

  But a side is a better name.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:36Trevor Noah?

  You know why? It evokes an image in your head.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I mean, if you have top, bottom, you want a side. You don't wanna be like, in the middle.

• 29:44Speaker 02

  In between.

• 29:44Trevor Noah?

  I guess so, but that's what I would have thought.

• 29:47Speaker 00

  So while you're looking, let me tell you the thing. So, uh, I did not realize until yesterday that they had filed secretly, um, a subpoena for my YouTube channel

• 30:02Speaker 00

  to get my subscribers and members of subscribers names, addresses, and phone numbers. And the judge said, no.

• 30:11Trevor Noah?

  Guys, what are we?

• 30:12Speaker 00

  This judge said no. Why would they, why would they want that? Either they want it to kill my business, to intimidate me, or to intimidate people who watch me. It's crazy. Or to create a list.

• 30:24Trevor Noah?

  Did you find it?

• 30:25Speaker 00

  What are we doing?

• 30:26Trevor Noah?

  I found it. So, the legality of compelled unlocking hinges on protections against unreasonable searches. Fourth Amendment and self-incrimination, Fifth Amendment. So, passcodes and, passcodes and PINs. The Fifth Amendment generally protects your testimonial acts, okay? So, courts across the country widely agree that the government cannot force you to hand over a passcode or a PIN, as doing so forces you to reveal the contents of your own mind.

• 30:51Speaker 02

  Right.

• 30:52Trevor Noah?

  Alright, that's the key thing. So, you're testifying against yourself by giving your password. However, the law regarding biometric locks is highly fractured. Biometrics are generally treated as physical evidence, like DNA swabs or a lineup. Meaning, some courts have ruled that police can physically force you to unlock your phone using your face or your thumb.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:13Trevor Noah?

  Because they're saying, that's not the contents of your mind.

• 31:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:16Trevor Noah?

  You're not testifying against. It's essentially like putting your fingerprints down.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  I think you can fight that. Because I would say, I would say, I had to think about this. Before, when I looked at the phone, I had to think about what.

• 31:27Trevor Noah?

  Depends on the court. Depends on the court. But it's literally, so remember when people were getting detained at the border? There was a moment where it was like a real flare up?

• 31:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 31:36Trevor Noah?

  The message they gave everyone was, hey, make sure you don't have Face ID and Touch ID and everything on your phone. Make sure your phone just uses a passcode, because they can't force you to give them a passcode.

• 31:47Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 31:48Trevor Noah?

  So, I was surprised that they didn't just be like, yo, Don, look here. Hey, Don. Hey, Don, can I ask you, can I ask you a question?

• 31:54Speaker 00

  I don't think they even had a warrant yet when they took it.

• 31:56Trevor Noah?

  Damn, four months. So, what have you, are there some people that you now haven't spoken to for four months, and you're happy about it?

• 32:06Speaker 00

  Come on, bro.

• 32:08Trevor Noah?

  What a great excuse to get people out of your life.

• 32:10Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 32:11Trevor Noah?

  I wanted to get back to you, Jean. Do you know what happened to my phone?

• 32:14Speaker 00

  But it's true, that did happen because the phone is, what is it called? Um, iOS.

• 32:21Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 00

  And some of the text messages come through the iOS system rather than just your phone number.

• 32:26Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 32:27Speaker 00

  So I don't get every single text. I haven't gotten it. Sometimes I'll be sitting in front of the computer and something, I was like, where did this come from?

• 32:33Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  India.

• 32:37Trevor Noah?

  Exactly.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  Nigeria.

• 32:42Speaker 02

  Don't think we forgot, no?

• 32:43Trevor Noah?

  Forgot what?

• 32:44Speaker 02

  The business idea.

• 32:45Trevor Noah?

  Okay, so my pitch was pretty simple. It's a really simple idea. Business or societal proposal. If our homes are as empty as they are, and, and, and not in like a negative way, just most people, you wake up in the morning, you leave the house to go to work, you only come back in the evening. Your house was empty for the entire day.

• 33:07Trevor Noah?

  The main reason you don't want somebody in your home is because you think they're gonna break things, change things, steal things, smell up the place, whatever it is.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  Use up your air conditioning.

• 33:16Trevor Noah?

  All of this, all of this.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Smell up the place.

• 33:17Trevor Noah?

  But imagine if we could find a way to pair each other up with your perfect house partner, someone who lives exactly like you. Exactly like you, like, and there's gotta be somebody, because we're not that interesting or unique as people. There's gotta be somebody who has the same vibes. Yeah, your lifestyle Tinder match. They, they, they use your colognes, they would sort of dress like you, they, you know what I mean?

• 33:40Speaker 02

  You, but you are not there.

• 33:41Trevor Noah?

  Yes, you, but they work night shift.

• 33:44Speaker 02

  Opposite shift of you.

• 33:45Trevor Noah?

  Opposite shift of you. And so then whenever like you leave your house.

• 33:48Speaker 02

  They come in.

• 33:49Trevor Noah?

  They come in, and whenever you come back, they leave. And then you guys, you get to like help each other, pay, and then homes are not sitting empty. And you need less housing, because right now we have a housing crisis, but if you think about it, most housing is sitting empty the whole day. And then you just have your perfect partner that's coming in.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  But if I have a girlfriend, do they talk to her while I'm not there or?

• 34:09Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  Where do we draw the line here?

• 34:10Trevor Noah?

  We'll, we'll have to figure this out, is what I'm saying.

• 34:13Speaker 00

  So you have to live alone? Because that sounds like pretty much every marriage I know is what you're saying.

• 34:17Trevor Noah?

  No, there's a, there's a, not everyone has someone who just stays in their house. Your girlfriend is not always just at your house. That's not, that's a.

• 34:27Speaker 00

  Is your girlfriend always at your house?

• 34:31Speaker 00

  Are you, sometimes are you, sometimes are you like, okay, I need a break?

• 34:38Trevor Noah?

  Do I say that Trevor, that sometimes I need a break?

• 34:41Speaker 00

  But, but you know what? When you said people need a break, I do think that couples need a break that way. Sometimes like, uh, sometimes, need.

• 34:49Trevor Noah?

  Definitely.

• 34:49Speaker 00

  Sometimes I'll go in the guest room and snooze, watch TV and sleep in there and, and maybe one of the dogs will follow me in, but and I get a great night.

• 34:57Trevor Noah?

  Actually, can I ask you a question though? How, so how does your husband respond to this?

• 35:00Speaker 00

  At first he was weird about it and I said, but here's the thing Trevor, I, it took me, I didn't get married until I was in my fifties.

• 35:08Trevor Noah?

  Wow.

• 35:09Speaker 00

  So I had been.

• 35:10Trevor Noah?

  You're over fifty. I would, that's what I was saying wow to. No, no, Don, I'm being, I'm being.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Do you want to know how old I am?

• 35:15Speaker 02

  You need to come back home.

• 35:16Speaker 00

  Should I, should I tell my age?

• 35:18Trevor Noah?

  If we walked in the streets together now, the three of us, I'm not even guessing out, if we walked together in the streets, people would not go, why are they with that old guy?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  No way.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:27Trevor Noah?

  They would just be like your friend, they might even say your brother to me, they'd be like, oh, you were here with, I think he's your brother.

• 35:32Speaker 00

  And I would go, I try to do your accent, but I can't. That is my brother.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  I don't know, should I tell my age here? I don't know.

• 35:41Trevor Noah?

  You can tell your age.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  I'm sixty, I turned sixty this year.

• 35:43Trevor Noah?

  No way.

• 35:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:48Trevor Noah?

  Don, you look good.

• 35:49Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 35:50Trevor Noah?

  Like you look good, good.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 35:51Trevor Noah?

  Like I'm not aside, but I'm just saying, man.

• 35:54Speaker 00

  I was gonna say.

• 35:54Trevor Noah?

  I would, I'm not, I'm not aside, but Don, yo, you look good.

• 35:58Speaker 00

  I'm married Trevor. Back off. Thank you, I thank you, I appreciate that. It's weird to say that because I don't feel that at all.

• 36:08Trevor Noah?

  You like the, you like the Pharrell of broadcasters.

• 36:12Trevor Noah?

  How?

• 36:13Speaker 00

  I'm a Pharrell caster, what?

• 36:14Trevor Noah?

  Look at your, look at your skin, look at your, like, everything.

• 36:17Speaker 00

  Not, not a stitch of makeup, that's one thing I do not miss about corporate.

• 36:22Trevor Noah?

  The makeup was terrible.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 36:23Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the makeup was terrible, cake. It cakes your skin.

• 36:26Speaker 00

  You don't need it.

• 36:27Trevor Noah?

  It's, it cakes your skin, bruh.

• 36:29Speaker 02

  So you tell your husband like, look, after how many years of being together, do you say, I think sometimes we needed a time out?

• 36:36Speaker 00

  I don't really say I need a time out. I just go in the guest room. I'm like, ah, I need, I need.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  But the first time it happened, Don.

• 36:42Speaker 00

  Oh, he's like, you're not sleeping in here with us? I'm like, I'm right next door, like, relax. And then I said, I'm just gonna go and watch TV for a little bit. And then you have to like ease in and then he fell asleep and then I didn't. And sometimes I would wake up before he would woke up and go in. This is actually great. I'm taking notes for sure. Yeah.

• 36:59Speaker 02

  People that marry each other and live together, they first start by dating, right?

• 37:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  They hang out and then sleepovers happen, then stayovers happen. Then a person goes, but I think I like having you around. Let's do this thing every day. How do we go from, I'll see you on a Tuesday, I'll see you the whole week, I'll see you the whole year to, I think I need three days or two hours apart from you.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  I charge a hundred and thirty dollars an hour. Come on, Don. Let me tell you. I've had lots of therapy, every week sometimes. Um, how do you go from that? I think that's, that's a choice. And I think whatever works for whatever relationship that, relationship you're in. I told him, I'm like, I'm not good with sleeping in the same bed with someone. I just, I don't sleep well.

• 37:42Speaker 02

  When you started dating or now when you're married?

• 37:45Speaker 00

  Always. And I just said, I have been single for so long and able to walk into my house and just do, if I wanna like drop my underwear at the floor, at the door, I don't do that. But I, you know, I was just alone for so long. I think I just got used to it. Also, it's weird because I am a loner. People think like, you're this, I'm this extrovert. It's, I'm a sort of extrovert introvert. I don't know what you call that. Um, but I actually really love being by myself. And that doesn't mean I love my husband any less and I don't wanna be married to him, but I love, I'm very content being alone. People don't understand.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Then how did you make that transition then? Cause if you like being alone, you don't mind your own company. This is the guy that you chose. You're like, let's do this thing. Whose idea was living together?

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Cause there's always one person that goes, this would be nice every day. Like, I love ice cream.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Every day.

• 38:37Speaker 00

  My fee is going up to one fifty.

• 38:41Speaker 00

  I think he decided, I mean, we're like lesbians, like the third date, it was he like moved in, it was like he had a moving truck. No, um. He kind of decided, I would come up, remember, I worked nights and I would come home like after midnight. Because I worked late at CNN, they had the ten to usually midnight hour. And first couple of times I'd come home and he'd be on my couch, I'm like, oh, hey, alright. Then I was like, I guess I can't, you know, I guess it's us because what if I had invited somebody over? Um, and I was like, how'd you get in? He goes, oh, the doorman. It was fine, I mean, because we had, he had been coming over, the doorman knew him or whatever. And then he started bringing his laundry, I was like, I said, you really like me because I have a washer and dryer in my apartment.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  In my condo, not because you, you know, and he goes, yeah, that was a joke. But I think he decided that and I'm okay with it, I'm okay with that, someone has to decide, someone has to make the move.

• 39:33Trevor Noah?

  Hmm.

• 39:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 39:34Trevor Noah?

  Then at some point you're like, I think I'll be in the other room hanging out, then he was like, but I.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  No, not all the time, every once in a while, you know, like if you're, if someone goes on a business trip, you're like, I get two days.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  It's true though.

• 39:48Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you know, you know why, so if you, if you are an introvert, one of the things people take for granted is that your battery is charged differently to an extrovert.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Right.

• 39:57Trevor Noah?

  So extroverts, in broad strokes, are people who gain, gain energy from being with other people. So the more they're with other people, the more energy they get, then the more people that come in, the more energy they get. So if you, if you're with an extrovert at a party, you'll see this, the more people who walk into the room, the more energy they get, the more energy they get, the more energy they get, the more, and if you're an introvert, you'll notice the opposite.

• 40:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you're like, ah.

• 40:19Trevor Noah?

  When the party only has like ten people, you're good, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five, thirty, forty-five, and then you're like, ah, when are we going?

• 40:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:27Trevor Noah?

  Okay, when are we, when are we going home? I'm ready, I'm ready. The extrovert's like, the party just started.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:32Trevor Noah?

  So when you're an introvert, even if you are with your person. Sometimes you just need to be by yourself to recharge. It's not about the other person. You just wanna recharge yourself and then come back to being with other people. So I can completely relate to that.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  And you know what complicates it? If you're in the public eye and you're an introvert because everyone, people are like.

• 40:55Trevor Noah?

  People assume.

• 40:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, hey, Don, hi, hi, Trevor, hi, hi, hi. Can I get a picture? Can we do a selfie? And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So when you get home.

• 41:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's draining you the whole time.

• 41:03Speaker 00

  It's draining you the whole time. So then you're like, OK, I just wanna sit on the couch. And if someone comes and sit next to you, it's OK. But then you want like, it would be great just to have my space so that I can.

• 41:13Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because, you know, we have to be on sometimes.

• 41:20Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  We have to be on.

• 41:22Speaker 02

  What's a perfect match for the type of personalities that you guys described? An introvert, extrovert? What would be the perfect personality to be around?

• 41:30Speaker 00

  I think you adapt. It's not really a perfect personality, you just have to adapt. But because if you have someone, both of you are the same thing. I don't know, maybe that makes you closer, at least physically.

• 41:40Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 41:40Speaker 00

  But I don't know, I just think it's, I don't know.

• 41:42Trevor Noah?

  Is your husband an extrovert?

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Uh, it's weird. Yeah, I think he doesn't realize he's an extrovert.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, he made friends with the doorman.

• 41:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:51Trevor Noah?

  That's true, actually.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  My husband is a little bit more sociable than I am. But I have a very large group of friends that we hang out with in the city. And my friends have become his friends. And so I, I find that he likes to entertain more. He likes to go to dinner and all. And I would be like, I'm like, Uber Eats, Seamless? Like, what are we gonna do tonight?

• 42:18Speaker 02

  Your brother.

• 42:19Trevor Noah?

  He, he takes me out. He's Eugene, forces me to go out.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  That's what happened.

• 42:24Trevor Noah?

  A lot of my, a lot of my friends.

• 42:25Speaker 00

  At the Grammys, they're like, let's go to this party. I'm like, OK, I'll go.

• 42:27Trevor Noah?

  And look what happened.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  And look at what happened.

• 42:29Trevor Noah?

  Look at what happened. I keep telling you, this is why we don't go outside, we're gonna get arrested, bro.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  Stay your ass at home.

• 42:34Trevor Noah?

  All my, all my extrovert friends, I'm like, where are we going? Where are we going? Eugene's like, come on. Are we ordering in again? Come on, let's eat out. It's you, it's Lawrence, everyone, let's go out, come on. That's how you go to jail, bruh. If Nelson Mandela got Uber Eats, he would have never went to Robben Island. When did they catch Nelson Mandela? Where was Nelson Mandela? Driving, outside. Twenty-seven years in prison. If that man got Uber Eats, he would have been comfortable in his house.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  He wouldn't be going to the restaurant and trying to find some sustenance.

• 43:06Trevor Noah?

  He would be enjoying himself. Ah, what a great time I'm having. Ah, ah, that's per frete o gata. He'd be at home enjoying himself. Only seven years, Eugene. We're gonna continue this conversation right after this short break.

• 43:21Trevor Noah?

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• 44:04Trevor Noah?

  with pumpkin blondies, apple brown butter cookies, and chocolate bourbon pecan pie. And with no artificial sweeteners like sucralose, artificial colors like red dye number forty, or high-fructose corn syrup, storewide, nothing gets in the way of the flavors you came for. Shop fall flavors with higher standards at Whole Foods Markets. Everybody has that oddly specific thing that they're curious about. Maybe it's restoring old watches. Maybe it's Japanese ceramic making. Maybe it's watching someone explain why one bridge in a remote area of Norway is secretly better than all the other bridges in the world. Youtube always has exactly what you're looking for, even when you didn't know you were looking for it.

• 44:48Trevor Noah?

  With Youtube Premium, those deep dives feel even smoother. You get ad-free viewing, but you also get background play when you need your hands free. And you get offline downloads, so you can keep watching wherever you happen to be, even if you happen to be off the grid. It's everything you already love about Youtube, just somehow even better. Yeah, one of my favorite Youtube Premium features is Smart Downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, "Ah, I forgot to download anything!" And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, "Download, download, download, download." You're on the plane, "Download, download, download, download." There's no wifi. "I wish I downloaded." Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch are just on the internet. Smart Downloads, basically, thinks ahead for you.

• 45:33Trevor Noah?

  It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, Youtube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like Youtube, you'll love Youtube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. I think one of the things you realize when you start caring about clothes is that simple doesn't have to mean basic. Because a t-shirt is a t-shirt until you find the right t-shirt. Ooh, then suddenly you're talking about the cut, the fit, the weight, the way it falls on your body.

• 46:16Trevor Noah?

  Then you're like, "No, no, no. You don't understand. Look at the sleeve." And that's what I've really enjoyed about Quince. One of my favorite things is their Pima Cotton Lux Touch t-shirts. And it's become one of those pieces I keep reaching for. The cotton has this really smooth, premium feel to it. The fit is great, and it just lays really nicely. And I think that's what you sometimes take for granted with simple clothes. When they're done really well, they become the foundation of an entire outfit. You can throw on a jacket, a sweater, whatever you want, but everything works because you started with the right thing. That's what I like about Quince. It feels premium without feeling like you're trying too hard. It's effortless. So find your next four favorites at Quince.

• 47:00Trevor Noah?

  Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. Hello over there. Oh, and if Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know it was What Now with Trevor Noah. It's the best way to support the show.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  Can I ask you something?

• 47:31Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  I know this is not my show. I'm gonna ask you a question.

• 47:33Trevor Noah?

  Ask it. What do you mean? This is, this is, this is literally your show. Do whatever you want.

• 47:36Speaker 00

  Do you miss being in corporate media?

• 47:40Trevor Noah?

  Not at all. Not at all.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  You were surprised that I said that too.

• 47:44Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no, no. I was surprised that you said you don't miss the, but then I think you answered my question when you followed up. What I was asking is, do you miss the job? Not, I didn't even think of it as corporate media.

• 47:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 47:56Trevor Noah?

  I was asking if you, if you missed the job. Because I think this applies to everyone, regardless of whether they were on TV or radio or, you know, anything public facing. We take for granted how much the thing we do slowly becomes who we think we are.

• 48:12Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:12Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:13Trevor Noah?

  Someone, and people say this with such confidence. You go, hey, my name is Mike. Hi, Mike. Uh, tell me about yourself. Well, I'm a doctor.

• 48:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:22Trevor Noah?

  It's amazing how that's the first thing people lead with. I am what I do.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:27Trevor Noah?

  You know? And then if you take that away from them, all of a sudden, they don't have an I am anymore.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Right.

• 48:33Trevor Noah?

  And people will sometimes even lead with that. Hey, Mike, so tell me about yourself. Well, I used to be a doctor. And you're like, wait, what do you mean? What, why would you tell me about what you used? I used to be a kindergartner. I don't tell you that. You know what I mean?

• 48:44Speaker 00

  True.

• 48:45Trevor Noah?

  But it's interesting how we've, we've really made what we do, who we are. And it, I think it's amplified when you're in the public eye because people see you as the job.

• 48:55Speaker 00

  Identify you.

• 48:55Trevor Noah?

  Exactly. So now when you're no longer doing that, they don't know how to place you. So they're like, Don Lemon.

• 49:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:02Trevor Noah?

  So like, what are you? What would you?

• 49:05Speaker 00

  What's going on? What are you doing now?

• 49:07Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's that, it's like a, it's because, and I understand it, people are not trying to be assholes. People are going, I only know you through your job. So if you do not have your job, I do not know how you exist anymore.

• 49:20Speaker 00

  That's right.

• 49:21Trevor Noah?

  Because you've never existed to me without the job. So I was just asking you if you miss the job itself, like the journalisming. But then, you know, as we continue talking, I realized you're still doing that.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  I'm still doing it. I'm basically doing the same thing, but just with more freedom.

• 49:33Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  But talking, speaking of therapy, I had a lot of therapy in my life because I think it's really good for you.

• 49:39Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 49:39Speaker 00

  So I never thought that I was my job, ever.

• 49:43Trevor Noah?

  That's the best place to be.

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Never thought that I was my job. And like you, I know that all things, good or bad, come to an end. And eventually we will come to an end.

• 49:51Trevor Noah?

  See, that's the big one.

• 49:51Speaker 00

  So when that's over, if, if the universe has taken care of me for all these umpteenth years, why would I think that it's going to fail me?

• 50:00Trevor Noah?

  Why now?

• 50:01Speaker 00

  Moving forward?

• 50:01Trevor Noah?

  I know, there's the universe guy, you can talk to him.

• 50:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, why, why now? So I, I, look, is it, do I like the way I was treated on my way out? Do I like the injustice, the, you know, sort of unfairness of it all? No.

• 50:15Trevor Noah?

  What happened to you on, on that? Because it happened so quickly and it seemed like there was just craziness at CNN. What actually happened?

• 50:21Speaker 00

  It's the same thing that ha, that's happening to CBS and, and others, and other networks now. Um, we, they, they sold the company and the people who came in wanted to make room for more conservative voices. I don't have a problem with that, but they wanted to make room for MAGA voices and people who came on, who were insurrection deniers and election deniers and just coming on to lie. And I thought like, this is a journalistic organization. There is no, I don't believe in the false equivalency. There is no, there's no equivalence to, um, someone who's coming on and giving you factual information about what's happening in the country and someone who you know is lying.

• 50:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 00

  It's like saying that, that the election was stolen, like, that is not true. We all know that, so why are you giving this person so much room? Because.

• 51:08Speaker 00

  I think that the what journalism and journalists are supposed to do is inform and educate and give facts. So we can still cover a story without giving someone a platform to just come on and directly lie to the American people like Donald Trump would do during, you know, his rallies during the first term and then people realize, okay, we can't, we can't do that because people start to believe it. So I believe that when you, if you have the privilege of going on to a CNN or any network or daily show, it is a privilege. It's not a right. You don't have the right to go there. So you should respect the platform and the people enough to be honest with them and tell the truth.

• 51:52Speaker 00

  So anyway, they wanted to make more room and move the network to the right, and I don't believe news is right or left. It just is. And so I would challenge conservatives who came online. They did not like it. And so what I believe in my opinion is that they were coming up with a predicate to get rid of me. So they moved me to the morning. So they came up with this idea. This is great for the mornings, whatever. And then from there, it just sort of, people think that I got fired for something that I said about Nikki Haley, but that was not it. I had an interview with Vivek Ramaswamy on the morning show. I didn't even know he was coming on. It was not my guest. It was like my co-anchor's guest.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  And I was like, when they said Vivek Ramaswamy is coming, I'm like, okay, that's Poppy's guest. I don't, not my business. And so he came on and he started lying about things and I'm like sitting there going,

• 52:46Speaker 00

  black people got their rights because of the NRA, because the NRA fought for black people's rights during the Civil War.

• 52:54Trevor Noah?

  This is what he was saying?

• 52:55Speaker 00

  And I was like, bro, none of this shit is true. And nobody was checking him. And I said, that is not true. And he goes, we have to be able to have these conversations. I said, yeah, if the conversation is true, you have to be honest on both sides. The NRA wasn't even around for the Civil War. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Four days later, I was gone.

• 53:17Speaker 00

  And then they rushed a press conference to announce Charles Barkley and Gayle King's show because they had gotten rid of their only black anchor and primetime anchor.

• 53:31Trevor Noah?

  You know what's always fascinated me is why in America, the like, let's call them, whatever people want to call them, you know, mainstream slash whatever organizations, why they always want to pander to a group that cares not to pander to them in any way, shape or form. So I don't remember Fox News ever going on a binge where they were like, we need to get as many liberal people on this network as possible, or Newsmax or any of them.

• 54:01Speaker 00

  And Fox is the most profitable, Fox is the most profitable news channel.

• 54:04Trevor Noah?

  But I don't understand it. They've never once gone, ah, we don't have enough of these voices, let's get them on.

• 54:10Speaker 00

  Because it doesn't work.

• 54:11Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but, but why does that happen?

• 54:14Speaker 00

  Because the people who own the companies think like that. They are right wing. Many of them are MAGA. The ones who are buying the companies now.

• 54:21Trevor Noah?

  Okay, no, that makes sense.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Are Donald Trump supporters. There was a Ellison who owns Paramount.

• 54:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, no, that makes sense.

• 54:28Speaker 00

  There was a Donald Trump appreciation dinner during the White House Correspondents' Dinner. So they are very transparent about it. But yet, on the other side, when you are centrist or liberal, you're like, oh, I can't do that. It's a conflict of interest. They don't give a shit about that.

• 54:38Trevor Noah?

  No, they don't. No, they're, they're living their dream, I will say. I will say. But that, but that's the thing I don't miss is like, so I, I think, I think that's where, Eugene and I talk about this all the time. We are in an interesting age of media where the, the structures that people have, have ordained for so long are going to fall apart because they don't present people with anything real anymore. It, it, it, it all feels like a facsimile of real. It feels like it's, like it's manufactured. It feels like it's manicured. It feels like it's, you know, so.

• 55:13Speaker 00

  Put on.

• 55:14Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. So, so you, you, you find yourself watching the news going. Is this the news? Is this what's happening? Is this what's actually going on? Is this, you know what I mean?

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:24Trevor Noah?

  And if you, if you, if you look at it through any lens, news, sports coverage, um, you know, documentaries, whatever you, you. It's interesting to see how the ones that are actually really experiencing growth are the ones that just feel authentic. Whether or not you're for them is irrelevant.

• 55:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 55:43Trevor Noah?

  But the authenticity is, is, is what's.

• 55:47Speaker 00

  And that's what's driving independent media right now is the authenticity. But your, facsimile is a very good word. It's almost like Stepford Wives.

• 55:54Trevor Noah?

  That's exactly what it is.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Lulled into it and you're like, and you just start watching it.

• 55:57Trevor Noah?

  Exactly what, that's how I feel sometimes now when I'll watch in the occasions, the moments when I'll watch the news.

• 56:02Speaker 02

  The real news.

• 56:03Trevor Noah?

  Not like CNN or any of those.

• 56:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, the real news.

• 56:06Trevor Noah?

  It's almost like, welcome. We're going to talk about a story now and we have one guest. Hello, what, what is happening? Uh, many people have been killed. Oh, wow. Well, we have someone else who says the opposite. Many people have not been killed. Oh, what do you think? They have been killed. What do you think they have not been killed? Well, that's all we have time for. Now have time for our next story. And you're sitting there going, what happened?

• 56:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, what, what happened?

• 56:31Trevor Noah?

  So what happened?

• 56:32Speaker 00

  Nothing. Or it's this. I can't stand you, fuck you, blah, blah, blah. Or you, blah, blah, blah. And it's like fighting around the table and you're like, what is being accomplished here? I, I hate that. Um, you're right. That's what's happening.

• 56:44Trevor Noah?

  It's just like.

• 56:45Speaker 00

  The authenticity is being in, um, in independent media or being an independent journalist. I don't miss that because before, you know, my show was a little bit different because I've sort of relaxed. I was the last person on this 10 o'clock at night. But you're, no one has conversations like that. No one sits around in cocktail dresses and suits with neckties on and they're like,

• 57:05Speaker 00

  now we're going to have a conversation right now.

• 57:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:09Speaker 00

  How are you? Eugene, what do you think?

• 57:11Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 57:12Speaker 00

  Eugene?

• 57:15Speaker 00

  Right? But stand by.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  I almost answered you.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  Stand by.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  I was like, do you wanna know what I think?

• 57:22Speaker 00

  I'm going to bring someone in and we're gonna have, uh, we're gonna FaceTime with Rob. Rob, you are standing there in the bar that we were talking about these guys hate. What's going on, Rob? Like, who talks like that?

• 57:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 57:37Speaker 00

  And so I think people, I, I think also COVID changed us.

• 57:41Trevor Noah?

  It actually did, man.

• 57:42Speaker 00

  Because people got used to seeing people in a natural environment and they're like, oh, I kinda like this. So I do my show from, I have like a little studio. I got rid of my dining room tables, just like this, where my dining room once was.

• 57:55Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 57:55Speaker 00

  And I was like, why don't I set it up in the, in my dining room? And so that's where I do the show and I come on, I'm like, hey, everybody. So glad you're with us today. Ah, what are we gonna talk about? Okay.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  You do it COVID style.

• 58:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, and you just, you just go, ah, what am I gonna talk about?

• 58:08Speaker 02

  This guy needs to come back.

• 58:09Speaker 00

  I could be doing this, we could talk about this, but this is what's on my mind right now.

• 58:13Speaker 02

  This was our topic.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  That's what you do.

• 58:14Speaker 02

  The whole of yesterday.

• 58:16Trevor Noah?

  Is, you see what I'm talking about?

• 58:17Speaker 02

  The whole of yesterday is what we spoke about.

• 58:19Speaker 00

  There's no, the thing is, is that there is no, I mean, I have a plan, but, um, there is, I'm not trying to get anything out of it. I'm not trying to make sure that we keep an audience minute by minute. There's no agenda. The only agenda is to tell the truth and to engage with people.

• 58:38Speaker 02

  I know.

• 58:38Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:39Speaker 02

  This was a topic the whole day, cuz we said, when people stop making a show, that's when the show gets made.

• 58:43Speaker 00

  That's it.

• 58:44Speaker 02

  You usually see it with car reviewers on YouTube.

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  When a manufacturer launches a certain model, it's all about the technical stuff, the car.

• 58:53Trevor Noah?

  What they're selling you.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  They're selling you, but when a reviewer gets hold of it and says, I don't like this, but I love this, and I hate that, and I love that, that actually gets more traction and makes you go, do I want the car? Or don't I want the car?

• 59:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  And with people like you who have authority and obviously experience in what you do, when you sit down and go, let's just figure it out together.

• 59:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:12Speaker 02

  That makes the conversation more, much more interesting.

• 59:14Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 59:15Speaker 00

  I, I, I agree. And the thing is, is there's one thing that I'm not a fan of, um, with independent media.

• 59:22Speaker 02

  Sorry, sorry.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  You don't know.

• 59:30Speaker 00

  Where's my phone? Can I get a hall pass? I wanna show this to you.

• 59:37Trevor Noah?

  He was so close, he was so close. He didn't hit his phone.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  What I'm not a fan of is feeling like I have to sell something because we don't have large corporate

• 59:52Trevor Noah?

  Have you met this guy?

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Sponsorships. I would like to not have to go. And here's a word from our sponsors. I don't like that. That's not my favorite part.

• 59:59Trevor Noah?

  I swear, it's like you, it's like you.

• 1:00:01Speaker 02

  You were there.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  We have to sell it.

• 1:00:04Trevor Noah?

  But it's like you.

• 1:00:04Speaker 02

  It's like you were there.

• 1:00:06Trevor Noah?

  I, I was having this comment literally yesterday and I was saying this to Eugene, my friend Ryan, we're all hanging out there. And I said, this is what people don't even understand in politics right now. One of the main reasons Donald Trump has done so well and continues to win people. I mean, now he's losing them because of era. He, he always lose. It's funny. Trump always wins people with his rhetoric and loses people with his actions.

• 1:00:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:32Trevor Noah?

  You know?

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  And with policy.

• 1:00:33Trevor Noah?

  The same thing happened during COVID. It's like people, he wins the elect. And then when you're like, when he has to run the country, people are like, what is happening? And then it all goes down. And then he comes in with rhetoric. People love it. When he actually runs the country, people are like, this is terrible. But the thing people don't realize is many politicians. He's authentic. He's not honest. There's a difference.

• 1:00:52Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:00:53Trevor Noah?

  But he's authentic. He'll come out and he'll say to you, I'm supposed to read from the teleprompter. There it is. Teleprompter. I should read it. I should read it. Should you want me to read? I don't want to read. I gotta read it. They want me to read it. I could read it. I could read, but I don't want to.

• 1:01:06Speaker 00

  Acida, acida, acida, menifin.

• 1:01:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but and you go, boy, that's a tough word. That's a tough word. Can you say it? I get a lot of people can't say it. That thing.

• 1:01:20Speaker 00

  Authenticity.

• 1:01:21Trevor Noah?

  Politicians, let's just call it mainstream or legacy in any field. Has taken for granted. How much authenticity has been stripped from our society?

• 1:01:36Speaker 00

  Eight minutes. Oh, my God.

• 1:01:38Trevor Noah?

  And, and, and you know what? This is, this is what happens. We, we live in cycles in life, right?

• 1:01:44Trevor Noah?

  Things will often start off as authentic. Once they achieve critical acclaim or success, they then start to become parodies of themselves because they're trying to maintain what they now have.

• 1:01:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Trevor Noah?

  Right? So you you you have like a dating show or you have like Survivor, let's say. I would argue like the first season of Survivor was only like real.

• 1:02:04Speaker 02

  That was a real Survivor.

• 1:02:05Trevor Noah?

  Because people didn't know what Survivor was supposed to be.

• 1:02:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Trevor Noah?

  It was like, what is this thing? And then it was Richard, right? Remember the first like bad villainy guy who like, he was like, ah, I'm I'm just gonna.

• 1:02:17Speaker 02

  Break it.

• 1:02:17Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, I'm gonna break this game. Everyone else was trying to do the real thing and Richard was like, no, I'm I'm gonna screw this over. But people watched that and then went, oh, that's what we need to do. And Survivor itself went, this is what needs to be done. So now when you watch Survivor.

• 1:02:31Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:02:32Trevor Noah?

  People come in as a villain, but you're like, no, that's you're not, that's not authentic anymore. And so then what happens is.

• 1:02:39Speaker 00

  It's still on the air.

• 1:02:40Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, it's still going, yeah, it's still going strong. But it starts to become, it doesn't have the the the cultural cachet that it once had. The same thing goes for dating shows. The first version of it will be authentic. People like, what is that same thing? For reality shows, the first version is just a camera crew comes in your house, they start filming. You get comfortable and you start having your real disputes. You have your, you know, like even see like.

• 1:03:02Speaker 02

  Start living your life.

• 1:03:02Trevor Noah?

  Uh, the Hulk Hogan documentary. You see him saying, we didn't realize.

• 1:03:07Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:08Trevor Noah?

  How invasive this would be, but they were having real fights in front of the camera.

• 1:03:12Speaker 02

  Linda, yeah.

• 1:03:13Trevor Noah?

  But now when people do a reality show, it's scripted. They even like, yeah, they staged the fights.

• 1:03:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Trevor Noah?

  That strips away what starts happening. The next generation of authentic comes. So then you end up with like dating shows like Pop the Balloon. You know that Pop the Balloon show?

• 1:03:29Speaker 02

  Favorite.

• 1:03:29Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but why? Because it was so much more authentic.

• 1:03:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Trevor Noah?

  These people didn't look like they'd done any media training.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:36Trevor Noah?

  Didn't give us any spiel. Someone just walked in and was just like, hey, my name's Brad. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.

• 1:03:43Trevor Noah?

  That's like bad for TV if you think about it. You'd be like, no, no, no, don't all pop.

• 1:03:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, the show ends at the beginning.

• 1:03:47Trevor Noah?

  If that show had a showrunner.

• 1:03:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:03:49Speaker 00

  It would say.

• 1:03:50Trevor Noah?

  They would be like, okay.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  Wait.

• 1:03:52Speaker 00

  And your story is this.

• 1:03:53Trevor Noah?

  Yes, and then you're gonna pop a balloon when this happens, and you're gonna pop a balloon when this. No. Sometimes a person will walk in, not even speak.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Like, none of these.

• 1:04:06Trevor Noah?

  That's, and why do people love it? It's authentic.

• 1:04:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Trevor Noah?

  You know what I mean? And I think we take for granted how authenticity, authenticity has been robbed of like, we're yearning for it in society.

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  Everything is produced, overly produced. And you're right. And then the show, or whatever it is, becomes a parody of itself.

• 1:04:24Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  Right? It becomes the SNL skit of itself.

• 1:04:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Why do people love hot wings on the internet? It's not because celebrities are eating spicy hot wings. It's because them eating the hot wing is the one thing they can't fake now.

• 1:04:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's hard to learn.

• 1:04:38Trevor Noah?

  So, if they go to a late night show and it's like, tell me about the time you went on vacation. Oh, I can't believe you asked me that story that I told you about before we came out in front of the cameras. So what happened was, give the person a spicy hot wing that they cannot tolerate. As we say back home, the cool is gone. You know what I mean? We saw Idris Albert choke. This is, this is like the greatest action star of our lifetime, and he's. But you know what happened? We loved him more after that.

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:06Trevor Noah?

  We didn't go like, ah, Idris can't be an action star. We're like, yo, we, we roll with you even harder now.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  Let me tell you, people love a hot mess. And, and, and people would ask me, you know, and I don't know how you feel about Wendy Williams.

• 1:05:18Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:05:19Speaker 00

  Wendy Williams is a hot mess.

• 1:05:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, you love Wendy.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  Loved her. She is missed on, how you doing?

• 1:05:25Speaker 02

  You doing?

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  People, she is missed on daytime television. Her show would, I believe, still be a success.

• 1:05:31Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:05:31Speaker 00

  And especially if, like, advertisers were afraid of her. Um, you know, the O and O, you know, the stations around the country were afraid of her because they didn't know what she was gonna say. And, you know, people, oh my god, like, with your accent. Well, he's just, she was so authentic, and that was, that was her superpower.

• 1:05:46Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  And I missed that on television. There's hardly any, if any, television show or talk show that's like that now.

• 1:05:53Trevor Noah?

  But can I tell you, here's the irony, and this is what most people don't realize, especially when it comes to media, the great irony is the cycle. Something becomes popular. Advertisers wish to partake in it. The advertisers want to partake in it because it's popular. When they partake in it, they now wish to put guardrails on it.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:12Trevor Noah?

  Because they are worried about how they will be perceived, not realizing that no one really cares.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  Thank you. Nobody cares.

• 1:06:19Trevor Noah?

  No one cares about a brand as much as a brand cares about a brand. They think the streets are like, oh, I saw your ad on that. No, no one really cares. They start putting guardrails on the thing. They put so many guardrails that the thing loses all of its authenticity and popularity. It starts to dwindle.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  Then they ring fancy with incentives.

• 1:06:36Trevor Noah?

  And then they pull out. They go like, sorry, Don, it's not performing anymore.

• 1:06:40Speaker 00

  Performing, yes.

• 1:06:41Trevor Noah?

  And you're like, you made me stop being me. And now the thing failed and now you're pulling out. And they're like, yeah, sorry, we're going for this new thing. You know, people are loving it. Watch what's gonna happen to it. Just give it time.

• 1:06:54Speaker 00

  And they're so, you're right, they're so dumb. Like, there was an advertiser who, my, uh, sales guy comes in. You know, this advertiser is really nervous about your arrest and whatever. I said, how many more people are watching us because of that arrest? Like, nobody cares, but you. No one cares. And in this environment now, it used to be fifteen minutes of fame. It's fifteen seconds.

• 1:07:14Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, it's now it's.

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  The news cycle, it's like a story goes in and then you're like, this is the biggest thing. And then Donald Trump tweets something, you're like, oh, forget about that. This is the biggest thing.

• 1:07:23Trevor Noah?

  By the way, now that you bring that up, did you guys at CNN ever know that he was like playing you guys like puppets? Did you ever figure it out at some point?

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:29Trevor Noah?

  Okay.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:32Trevor Noah?

  No, because there was a, there was a thing, so.

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  I think they, I think, honestly, they maybe knew somewhere in the beginning, but it was good for business. Do you remember Les Moonves? He goes, you know, Trump is bad for the country, but he's good for business.

• 1:07:46Trevor Noah?

  He did say that.

• 1:07:47Speaker 00

  And?

• 1:07:48Trevor Noah?

  Jeff Zucker said Donald Trump is many things, but one thing I'll tell you is he's a one-man ratings wrecking ball machine.

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  And?

• 1:07:56Trevor Noah?

  Same with the, I think it was Roger Ailes who called Trump, he's like, yo, man, why aren't you coming on the? When he, when Fox was fighting with Trump, Roger Ailes was phoning Trump and he's like, yo, I know we're beefing, but come on the show, man. Let me tell you something. Donald Trump is a media genius.

• 1:08:10Speaker 00

  Genius.

• 1:08:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  Gee, I I got a story about that, but I tell you, um Jeff got hip to it really early. And then, but he never told us what to say. We did not. The only thing that he would tell us is when we were doing interviews, when he allowed us to do interviews.

• 1:08:24Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:08:24Speaker 00

  Um, just let him talk and fact check him. You can ask him anything. It's all in the way you ask the question.

• 1:08:31Trevor Noah?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  You can say, Trevor, what is wrong with your hair?

• 1:08:35Trevor Noah?

  Uh huh.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Or you can go, Trevor, you seem to have a really nice head of hair. What's going on? Is it, did you change something?

• 1:08:41Trevor Noah?

  Ah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  Very similar question, right? Or you compliment him before. You're a marketing genius. Now, this one thing I don't understand because it didn't quite go over well with your supporters. What happened? Wow, you know, so.

• 1:08:56Trevor Noah?

  Oh, and then you're in.

• 1:08:57Speaker 00

  And then you're in.

• 1:08:59Trevor Noah?

  What's the story?

• 1:09:00Speaker 00

  Uh.

• 1:09:01Speaker 02

  Morning Glory.

• 1:09:02Speaker 00

  The story, what did you say again? What were you asking?

• 1:09:04Trevor Noah?

  We were talking about me, me, marketing genius.

• 1:09:06Speaker 00

  Oh, marketing genius. How I knew Donald Trump was gonna win in 2016.

• 1:09:10Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  I, yeah, this was back in the day when I got newspapers delivered to my door. Now, everything's online. I I prefer holding newspaper, but then it becomes too much. So I would get the Washington Post, the New York Times, um, sometimes they would send me just for fun, the, the company that, like, the New York Post, all of it. So I open these newspapers and Donald Trump is on the front page. And then I open the real estate section. Donald Trump is in the real estate section. Then I open the editorial section. There's Donald Trump. And then whatever, and I just, I was like, oh, and I was like, well, where is Hillary Clinton? Right? And I said, this man is going to win. And then Tim said, why? I said, because he's everywhere. And he's sitting, uh, who knows, in his bed, on a toilet or whatever, calling into morning shows.

• 1:09:57Trevor Noah?

  Right?

• 1:09:57Speaker 00

  He didn't come in. He just calls in.

• 1:09:59Trevor Noah?

  Do you know why he did it like that?

• 1:10:00Speaker 00

  Because he got, he didn't have to go in, but he.

• 1:10:03Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 1:10:03Speaker 00

  Could talk to everybody.

• 1:10:04Trevor Noah?

  No, it's genius.

• 1:10:05Speaker 00

  Why?

• 1:10:05Trevor Noah?

  The reason Donald Trump did it like that is because he liked how it made him seem like the Wizard of Oz.

• 1:10:13Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. Oh.

• 1:10:15Trevor Noah?

  So when Donald Trump would phone into a news show, but wouldn't be there. All the people on the show would just have to like sit there.

• 1:10:22Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:23Trevor Noah?

  And it has the same effect of speaking to this like omnipotent power.

• 1:10:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:27Trevor Noah?

  So they all sit on the couch. You see them on Fox all the time. They sit on the couch.

• 1:10:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:31Trevor Noah?

  And they go, so Mr. President.

• 1:10:32Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 1:10:32Trevor Noah?

  So, Mr. President, tell us. And then you just, you just see the picture, his picture, that like smoldering picture of his. And then he just talks and everyone just has to stare at the picture. And in those moments, you don't realize, subconsciously. You're saying that this person is so important, they do not have to be here. But we have to listen to everything they say.

• 1:10:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:10:55Trevor Noah?

  And he knew the, he knew the power of it.

• 1:10:57Speaker 00

  That's something I never even thought about.

• 1:10:59Trevor Noah?

  He knew the power, but he knew it on a media level. He's genius.

• 1:11:01Speaker 00

  But he knew the power of it. He also knew that he could be everywhere, everything, everywhere, all at once, right? He could be everywhere on and on every show. And look, I, I think that there. In modern history, in recent times, there's never been anyone more qualified to be president than Hillary Clinton. Okay? However, I don't believe that whatever media strategy she has or strategist that I think that they served her wrong because. She would pick and choose and I'm gonna do this and, and I'm like. You should be all over the place. What are you guys doing?

• 1:11:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but I, so here's the thing to what Eugene said and what we were saying.

• 1:11:37Trevor Noah?

  When you stop trying to do the thing, that's when you will do the thing.

• 1:11:40Speaker 00

  That's when you do the thing.

• 1:11:41Trevor Noah?

  Have you noticed how people in divorce will finally become themselves? It's only when people are breaking up with each other that they'll finally tell the other person the truth of who they are. All of a sudden you'll say, I, I never, I never liked sleeping in the same bed. I, I just wanna sleep in my own room and.

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:59Trevor Noah?

  And I, I don't wanna go on vacations to this place. And then the person goes, wait, when were you gonna tell me this?

• 1:12:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:06Trevor Noah?

  When you stop trying to do the thing, ironically, that's often when you'll do the thing.

• 1:12:10Speaker 00

  Is that what happened with Hillary Clinton?

• 1:12:11Trevor Noah?

  The same thing goes, if you want to see arguably the best, just like politician qualified human. Go and watch Hillary Clinton's interviews after she had lost the election and it was like done.

• 1:12:25Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:12:25Trevor Noah?

  I think there's one she did on Howard Stern maybe or.

• 1:12:29Trevor Noah?

  You go, where was this person?

• 1:12:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I agree.

• 1:12:32Trevor Noah?

  Yo, she is funny, smart, knowledgeable, throws the thing. She is fire. But you never saw that person on the campaign trail because, but this is, this is like the gift and the curse, I always think in life. I argue. Donald Trump won the election because he just like the 2016 election, he won it. Because he's just, he was just this crazy, brash, take it to the limit person all the time.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  He had no shame.

• 1:13:02Trevor Noah?

  But that's also the reason he lost the next election is because he had, there, there, there's two different skills in life, right? This, the, the ability to be a revolutionary does not mean that you will have the ability to govern.

• 1:13:14Trevor Noah?

  The ability to run for office does not mean you'll have the ability to run in office. To run an office. Yeah, to run an office. Thank you. And so that's what people don't get is like, to your point of Hillary being overqualified. Her measured nature, her thinking, all of those things are terrible for running.

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  But part of that comes from the rules are different for women. So she had to, right?

• 1:13:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, completely.

• 1:13:38Speaker 00

  So part of it comes from that. But if you see her in person, I don't know if she's been on your show.

• 1:13:43Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, when she came to my show, yeah.

• 1:13:45Speaker 00

  And she's like, hey, Don, how are you?

• 1:13:48Trevor Noah?

  Fire. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  So I just wanna, we saw her leaving, um, uh, the Kennedy Center one, um, there was a function at the Kennedy Center and Tim and I were like, all right, let's get out of here. And then she was coming around the other side and she's like, let's get out of here. She bumped into us and she goes, I just wanna go home and take my shoes off and, and eat my whatever Uber Eats in bed. And we're like, where was that? Cause I, you know, people would have voted for that a million times. But I just, I think she probably did, you know, felt that she couldn't do that.

• 1:14:15Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, that's, but that's what, that's why I'm saying, and I, I think this goes beyond politics. I think in life, one of the greatest challenges you'll face as a human being is knowing when your gift becomes your curse and knowing when your curse becomes your gift.

• 1:14:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:14:30Trevor Noah?

  You, I think of it through the lens of trauma all the time, right? Many of us in these worlds or anywhere.

• 1:14:38Trevor Noah?

  Can go back to a time in our lives when things were terrible. We might have had a tough time with our parents. We might have had a tough time in our families, in our communities. We we can go back and think, man, I remember hating my life or I remember wanting to escape. But then there's a moment where that curse becomes your gift. Makes you see the world differently. It makes you process information in a way that nobody else can. It makes you think faster than other people. You you deal with with with situations. You know what I mean? Like, when I think of my life, I'm one of the calmest people in chaos. It's because my life was chaos.

• 1:15:14Speaker 00

  I get so calm in chaos and I'm just quiet. And then Tim is a worrier. He's like, oh, my gosh, whatever. The engagement on the shows. I'm like, Tim, it's all it's fine. And and like when I got arrested, I was like, OK. And I kept thinking, I'm a journalist, so I'm gonna like chronicle this and remember this in case I want to have to talk about it in court. Or maybe I want to write a book about it. And so I was just very calm, very calm, very calm.

• 1:15:40Trevor Noah?

  Now I would go like, what was your life like when you were growing up?

• 1:15:44Speaker 00

  My my life wasn't chaotic. I mean, I'm a, you know, Gen X. And so we did not have very much parental supervision.

• 1:15:53Trevor Noah?

  Those were the good old days.

• 1:15:54Speaker 00

  I pretty much raised myself, kind of. I mean, my grandmother was there and they call it nanny now, but my grandmother was there. And she was like, she was our babysitter. But then pretty much like when I was, I think I was in junior high school, whatever. And they didn't, we didn't need my grandmother. So my parents would go away. Me and my preteen sisters would be at home by ourselves. And so the I would come home from school. My parents, both my parents worked, and so they call them latchkey kids. But the I, you know, the TV raised me.

• 1:16:23Speaker 00

  The Brady Bunch. You know, when

• 1:16:25Trevor Noah?

  Limited channels and reruns.

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  It's the news.

• 1:16:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:30Trevor Noah?

  On the floor alternating.

• 1:16:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:16:32Trevor Noah?

  Butt cheeks.

• 1:16:33Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then and then at night I watched a lot of television. I think Norman Lear kind of raised me. So my life wasn't very chaotic, but it wasn't as structured as I probably needed at, you know, when I was growing up.

• 1:16:46Trevor Noah?

  But you see that. So that's what I'm saying is without even knowing the details of it, I can go. Living in that type of life, most people would argue, as you said, is a little more chaotic. But that means you're gonna be calm when there's chaos.

• 1:17:00Speaker 00

  But I also, I had to take care of myself, I had to rely on me.

• 1:17:03Trevor Noah?

  That's what I mean, yeah.

• 1:17:03Speaker 00

  Right, and so then as I got older, I'm like, I gotta take care of myself, I gotta rely on me. This too shall pass.

• 1:17:09Trevor Noah?

  There you go.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  And, and, or maybe something good is gonna hap- not maybe, something good is gonna happen out of every situation, there's something good that happens. But I think it's be- because I always had to rely on myself.

• 1:17:19Speaker 02

  I believe, I believe in the momentum of rock bottom, I so believe in it. Cause once things have gotten worse, I'm like, there's only one way now. In any situation, when the traffic gets really, really bad, I'm like, ha ha, it can't be like this forever. I've already experienced the worst of a thing. So I'm always looking out for those moments where else, I feel like when I was younger, I used to avoid those moments. Of chaos, of feeling helpless, or feeling stranded. Now, when that happens, I'm like, you have no idea how much of a jet propulsion that situation is. And I think we, from a generational point of view, we miss the chaos that we knew existed in how people were raising themselves, in how neighbors were involved and grandparents were involved.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  And we stop being those people to kids that we have and neighbors that we have because we, we kind of miss the drunk uncle.

• 1:18:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, we do.

• 1:18:10Speaker 02

  The drunk uncle was that guy. Yeah, you don't miss him?

• 1:18:14Speaker 00

  You also had one. I really miss the drunk uncle.

• 1:18:16Speaker 02

  The drunk uncle was the guy, or...

• 1:18:17Speaker 00

  I had a drunk uncle, by the way, who used to drive, I would be in the backseat and he would drive drunk. And my mom said, you cannot go and get in the car with him. Because I said, you know, I, I won't say his name, but uncle, whatever. And I said, we went to such and such place and I was in the backseat, we were driving home and I was like this, all over the backseat. She goes, do not get in the car with him anymore.

• 1:18:40Speaker 00

  That was my drunk uncle and I loved him.

• 1:18:42Speaker 02

  My drunk uncle used to take me to a dice game. And then when things got hectic, you'll be like, hold the money.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  I'll be there to beg going, yeah, if something happens, I'm gone here. But then if nothing ever happened, you know, and one day we witnessed the stabbing, but I still made it home. But we stopped being those people. There was always the drunk uncle, the successful aunt, the one who does this, the one who does that. The neighbor who got out and still comes back for family um occasions. But we miss television, the way we grew up making television. That's why.

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Speaker 02

  When someone breaks away from traditional media and goes into this new media, I'm the happiest person in the world, seeing them do things the way they should be done. Because ultimately, we recreating our our childhood, we recreating those TV moments. And I think that's why people are paying attention. And I feel sorry for this younger generation because they're just copying other copies.

• 1:19:33Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:19:33Speaker 02

  We are actually doing radio the way we used to love listening to radio, but it's called a podcast now.

• 1:19:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:39Speaker 02

  We hanging out the way we used to love hanging out because a stranger coming in while we're having a conversation has never been a big deal. Someone walking in is never gonna be like, so what do you do? It will always be like, so he's crazy, nah? That idea of people just coming into people's houses.

• 1:19:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  Actually, it's not a bad idea. That's exactly what we need.

• 1:19:58Speaker 00

  You uh look, you're right about that. And it's speaking of, we were talking about corporate media. Um, sometimes my friends who are in corporate media and they're starting podcasts now and they'll invite me on their shows. And they're like, okay, what are we doing in segment two? And here's the script. And I'm like, what are we doing?

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Were you tapping off?

• 1:20:15Trevor Noah?

  This guy was tapping our phones.

• 1:20:16Speaker 00

  It's TV. It's a TV podcast.

• 1:20:18Trevor Noah?

  This guy was tapping our, what did I say to you? This guy was tapping our phones.

• 1:20:21Speaker 02

  Exactly what he said.

• 1:20:22Speaker 00

  And uh the thing is, it's like, no, it's like, you come on like we did. And you go, hey, what's up?

• 1:20:28Trevor Noah?

  This guy was tapping our phones, Eugene.

• 1:20:30Speaker 00

  But they haven't figured it out because and and they're in full makeup and.

• 1:20:34Trevor Noah?

  This guy was tapping our phones.

• 1:20:36Speaker 00

  And I'm like, why are you doing that? You want people to see you the other way. Like I did a, I sometimes I'll do like uh updates on my phone in my pajamas. I'm like.

• 1:20:45Speaker 02

  Do you wanna, do you wanna tell Don, what is, what is the criteria for a guest on this, on this podcast?

• 1:20:51Trevor Noah?

  Oh, one hundred percent. Are you huggable? Can we hang out with you?

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  You think I'm huggable?

• 1:20:55Trevor Noah?

  Ah, Don.

• 1:20:56Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. You like me, you're real.

• 1:21:00Trevor Noah?

  This guy, this guy, you playing game.

• 1:21:01Speaker 02

  That is the, that is the number one.

• 1:21:05Trevor Noah?

  Come on, this is the same guy, you know, when you, you know, a person who's hangable is somebody who has range. This is somebody who I've seen reports on the most serious incident happening in America. And then somebody who got drunk at New Year's Eve.

• 1:21:18Speaker 00

  I knew you were gonna say that.

• 1:21:20Trevor Noah?

  On the ballers dropping. Be like, let me tell you.

• 1:21:27Trevor Noah?

  And you see like in that moment, genuinely, I remember liking you more. I went, this guy.

• 1:21:31Speaker 02

  It's my guy.

• 1:21:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, because, no, because it was, it was, I was like, oh, he's a human being.

• 1:21:37Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you guess what? Now everybody's getting drunk on New Year's Eve. Before they're like, you can't, what are you doing? I had people were calling me and said, you have to maintain your stature as a journalist and especially a black man in this society. I'm like, it's fucking New Year's Eve. Nobody's talking policy. Everybody is sitting at home getting lit. And so why can't I? And some of it is like you, you get into it. I'm not stumbling drunk.

• 1:21:59Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:22:00Speaker 00

  You know, it's, it's like a little bit like Dean Martin in the.

• 1:22:03Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, you're enjoying it.

• 1:22:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, you just, you, you enjoy it. So, but.

• 1:22:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you see what I mean? Now, because it was a success, because of how viral it went, because of, everyone goes, would you like a.

• 1:22:15Speaker 02

  Trying to make a show.

• 1:22:15Trevor Noah?

  Would you like, but now people are going to try to get drunk on New Year's Eve when covering it for the news. Because they wish to recreate the same thing that happened. It's, it's, man, your, life is weird how you're like, your gift will just be your curse. It'll just, it'll just keep on coming back around.

• 1:22:31Speaker 00

  If it's not, as you said, authentic, authenticity, if it's not authentic to you, people will sniff it out immediately.

• 1:22:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:39Speaker 00

  And they'll say, no, I don't dig this.

• 1:22:42Trevor Noah?

  We'll be right back after this.

• 1:22:47Trevor Noah?

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• 1:23:32Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, one of my favorite Youtube Premium features is Smart Downloads. Because how many times have you gone somewhere and realized, "Ah, I forgot to download anything!" And now you're on the way to the airport and you're like, "Download, download, download, download." You're on the plane, "Download, download, download, download." There's no wifi. "I wish I downloaded." Now, all of those things that you were gonna watch are just on the internet. Smart Downloads, basically, thinks ahead for you. It automatically downloads recommended videos based on what you like to watch. So even when you forget to prepare, Youtube Premium didn't. I love it. It's like packing for a trip and discovering somebody already remembered the thing you always leave at home. It's always the underwear. If you like Youtube, you'll love Youtube Premium. Sign up now for your free trial at youtube.com/premium.

• 1:24:17Trevor Noah?

  Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Earth can be a lot sometimes. Heatwaves, gas prices, bad hair days. Why not go where life is good? Escape to Pluto TV. Turn off your problems and turn on your favorite movies and shows. You know, the ones you already love. From Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy, to Dirty Dancing, to Top Gun Maverick, from Alias to The X-Files. It's all here and all free. Go where the TV is always good. Escape to Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. Therapy is one of those things lots of people talk themselves out of without even realizing it.

• 1:25:00Trevor Noah?

  Like, it's too expensive or it's too overwhelming figuring out even where you're gonna start.

• 1:25:07Trevor Noah?

  But Rula is one way to make that first step feel a lot more doable. Offering accessible, affordable therapy that fits your needs. Sign up in just a few minutes and get matched with a therapist who fits what you're looking for. Need to talk to someone quickly? Appointments are often available as soon as the next day. And with insurance, sessions average around a fifteen dollar copay. You can also see estimated costs upfront, so there's a lot more clarity going in. And in terms of outcomes, ninety-three percent of Rula patients report symptom improvement. If therapy's been sitting in the back of your mind, Rula is a pretty simple way to take that first step. So, turn off the talk track that's keeping you from progress and head to rula.com.

• 1:25:51Trevor Noah?

  That's R U L A dot com to find a therapist the easy way.

• 1:26:04Trevor Noah?

  I have a question for you, because I was thinking about this, I thought of it earlier and then it came back to me now. Do you think gay guys have more fun in relationships than straight guys?

• 1:26:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 1:26:13Trevor Noah?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm asking the other gay men at the table.

• 1:26:17Speaker 00

  The other gay men at the table, Eugene, please, please.

• 1:26:22Trevor Noah?

  Why?

• 1:26:23Speaker 00

  And Eugene.

• 1:26:24Trevor Noah?

  Why does it hurt so bad?

• 1:26:26Speaker 00

  Yes, Eugene.

• 1:26:26Trevor Noah?

  When someone else does it, we do it to each other all the time.

• 1:26:29Speaker 00

  Being gay is not an insult, Eugene. It's, I think it's a compliment. That means you're, you know, you're hip and cool.

• 1:26:36Trevor Noah?

  It means you smell good.

• 1:26:37Speaker 00

  Smell good, you dress well.

• 1:26:39Trevor Noah?

  It means you know what's happening, Eugene.

• 1:26:40Speaker 00

  You're an overachiever.

• 1:26:41Trevor Noah?

  Got him.

• 1:26:43Speaker 00

  When we started doing this podcast. It means you wear a jean jacket with a black t-shirt and clear glasses. That's what it means.

• 1:26:54Trevor Noah?

  No, but really, do you think?

• 1:26:55Speaker 00

  I'm not gay, but my podcast.

• 1:26:58Trevor Noah?

  You need to leave.

• 1:27:04Speaker 00

  What were you saying?

• 1:27:04Trevor Noah?

  No.

• 1:27:04Speaker 00

  Do I think they have that?

• 1:27:05Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:05Speaker 00

  Yes, I do.

• 1:27:06Trevor Noah?

  Why do you think that is?

• 1:27:08Speaker 00

  Uh, because I think that, you know, I think we have better things to worry about than some performative thing, um, about what marriage or a relationship should be like. I actually, look, I'm in sort of a very heteronormative relationship now. We are monogamous, the blah, blah, blah, blah. But if we weren't, you know, nobody, so I don't judge couples who have open relationships.

• 1:27:30Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, but.

• 1:27:31Speaker 00

  But yeah, I mean, it's two men. Men are horny and fun and they like to have fun. And also it's not, sex is not an emotional thing for men.

• 1:27:40Trevor Noah?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:27:40Speaker 00

  It's like, ah, yeah, that's right, that's okay. But a woman is like, oh my gosh, you know what I mean? Generally.

• 1:27:45Trevor Noah?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:27:46Speaker 00

  There are very few women who are like Samantha on Sex and the City.

• 1:27:48Trevor Noah?

  Well, well, it's actually funny. I think Esther Perel said it beautifully once. She said, we have a misconception that sex is not emotional for men. It's just the emotions happen at a different time for men than for women.

• 1:28:00Speaker 00

  That's true.

• 1:28:00Trevor Noah?

  So the sex is emotional for everybody, but it's more when the emotions present themselves that, that, that we're not so aware of. Were you gay your whole life?

• 1:28:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:28:11Trevor Noah?

  So.

• 1:28:12Speaker 00

  At a very early age, I knew that I was, but I didn't know quite what it meant sexually. But I also knew that it was something I had to hide because.

• 1:28:20Trevor Noah?

  In the South as well?

• 1:28:21Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:28:22Trevor Noah?

  Very religious family?

• 1:28:23Speaker 00

  Gosh, yeah. I mean, it's even worse in the South. Look at the, what happened in the South now.

• 1:28:27Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:28Speaker 00

  Bible Belt and all that, Louisiana, deep South. You don't get much more Southern than that. Um, yeah, so I always knew. I always knew it was something that I had to hide. And then the moment I stopped hiding it, that's when I became me, more authentic.

• 1:28:41Trevor Noah?

  When did you come out?

• 1:28:43Speaker 00

  I sort of came out to my friends and, and coworkers. I was out with friends. Like, my mom used to say, like, how do you guys, how do the gays find each other? Because she had never experienced so many, like, gay men openly.

• 1:28:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:58Speaker 00

  In community. And so when she started to come into my circle and she realized, she's like, these are really great people. She goes, I think, I gotta tell you, Don, I think that gay people are the smartest people in the world. And I was like, oh, okay. And she said, your homes are beautiful, the way you dress, everybody's smart, everybody has something interesting to say. She's, that doesn't happen with us. Cause I look at my friends and I go, what the hell? Are you stupid? Would you say that? So anyways, um, I, you know.

• 1:29:25Speaker 00

  It was something that I had to hide until, until I didn't have to hide it.

• 1:29:28Trevor Noah?

  Were you, who were you most afraid of when, when you had to come out?

• 1:29:32Speaker 00

  Well, I came out, as I was saying, I came out, uh, to friends, I was out with friends and then I left Louisiana.

• 1:29:38Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:39Speaker 00

  Cause I knew that, you know, I had to leave in order to become me. And also my journalism teacher at LSU told me I would never make it as a journalist. I'm like, okay, whatever. He was right.

• 1:29:51Speaker 00

  So I moved to New York City and I started dating people and coming out and the people at work like knew that I was gay. And then I started, you know, gaining success and I moved, um, around the country doing local news. And in those markets, I was out to my friends, but I never talked about it openly professionally. And then someone said, hey, you're like, what you're doing is great. I think you have a book in you. You should write a book. And I started writing a book about my journeys in journalism and life and whatever. And I got to the part where I left Louisiana and I'm like, oh.

• 1:30:26Speaker 00

  Am I going to be the person who lies about it silent? Because there is deception in silence, there's a certain deception in silence. And I said, if I'm going to be authentic and I have to have the same rules for myself that I have for the guests that come on. Like they must be candid. And I said, I just wrote about it. It was like two or three pages in the book. It's like, I had to move for this reason and I needed to become myself. And I was a gay person and at that point I knew that I could not do that in Louisiana. And so I moved to New York City and I just wrote that. And then it became a huge thing. Back then, this was 2011. Things are different now.

• 1:31:02Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:31:03Speaker 00

  That was a big deal.

• 1:31:04Trevor Noah?

  I can only imagine.

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  And to have a news anchor on a major network like CNN come out, no one had done that. I think Rachel was out, but Rachel Maddow, but she wasn't Rachel Maddow.

• 1:31:14Trevor Noah?

  How many black men had done that?

• 1:31:14Speaker 00

  Zero. I was like the first to come out, among the first, if not the first.

• 1:31:19Trevor Noah?

  Did you lose anyone?

• 1:31:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, I lost that person that the person that I was before who was afraid of coming out and afraid of losing their livelihood.

• 1:31:30Trevor Noah?

  Damn, that's beautiful.

• 1:31:31Speaker 00

  So I lost that person, but everybody else, no. If I lost you because of that, fuck it, I didn't give a shit.

• 1:31:36Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:36Speaker 00

  But that was a real thing. Because people would say, you know, there were rumors. Um, but I never really talked about it. And then now I don't really care. And then I, it's hard for me to. Um, in this day and age, I get it. But people who are in a safe place and who are not out, I'm like, okay. Don't do that, but that's not my business. It happens.

• 1:32:00Trevor Noah?

  What do you think people don't realize they're missing out on? By not coming out and not like, let's say publicly writing a book, but just what do you, what do you think they're missing out on?

• 1:32:11Speaker 00

  I wish that we did not have to, you know, come out because human sexuality is so, you know, it is a spectrum and.

• 1:32:19Trevor Noah?

  Actually, that's, that's a great question for you is so. Is it gay if somebody tries once?

• 1:32:24Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:32:24Trevor Noah?

  Okay, when does it become gay? I'm asking for a friend.

• 1:32:32Speaker 00

  Well, why don't you ask him because you remember, you remember the other night when we hung out, I didn't want to. Okay, should I tell him? You don't want me to tell him?

• 1:32:41Trevor Noah?

  You know what? No, it's fine.

• 1:32:46Speaker 00

  No, I don't, I don't think that it's, I don't think that it's gay if you try, but that, look, I have been gay for a long time. And there are people I know that I have hooked up with who are now married with children, married to women. And I don't think that they're gay. I just think that they're horny or that they are human. And they did something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're gay.

• 1:33:06Trevor Noah?

  Right.

• 1:33:06Speaker 00

  Um, look at what happens when people are in close quarters when they go to prison or whatever. They call it gay for the state.

• 1:33:12Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:12Speaker 00

  Because we have, we have urges and especially when you're younger, your hormones are going crazy. So no, I don't believe that, nor do I believe that it should be judged. I think if we were, we weren't so puritanical in this society and it wasn't so based on religion, which it shouldn't be. Then we might have healthier people and we wouldn't judge.

• 1:33:32Trevor Noah?

  And a safer society.

• 1:33:33Speaker 00

  Sexuality and a safer society.

• 1:33:34Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, the safer society is the big, the biggest one.

• 1:33:37Speaker 00

  Look at, look at, all you have to do is like scroll through your news feed and you look at all of the conservative people, the Christian people who get in trouble for doing weird things with kids or they're saying, oh, gays are the worst and they end up being gay and they're on grinder.

• 1:33:53Trevor Noah?

  Now with the.

• 1:33:54Speaker 00

  With the boobs.

• 1:33:55Trevor Noah?

  The boob pictures.

• 1:33:55Speaker 00

  I liked him more after that.

• 1:33:57Trevor Noah?

  I did actually.

• 1:33:58Speaker 00

  I liked him more. Uh, Brian Gnome, Kristi Gnome's husband.

• 1:34:02Trevor Noah?

  Kristi Gnome's husband.

• 1:34:03Speaker 02

  What did he do?

• 1:34:04Trevor Noah?

  He was found on websites or dating sites.

• 1:34:07Speaker 00

  He liked big, he's like, that was a fetish for him.

• 1:34:09Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, he would, he would basically dress up sort of as a woman, but then put

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Gigantic.

• 1:34:13Trevor Noah?

  Giant, massive boobs and then go talk to women also, I guess with giant boobs and it was a whole thing and but.

• 1:34:19Speaker 00

  He wasn't, I don't think he's gay.

• 1:34:21Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 1:34:23Speaker 00

  That's his thing.

• 1:34:23Trevor Noah?

  That's his penchant and that's fine.

• 1:34:25Speaker 00

  That's just, I'm not judging.

• 1:34:26Trevor Noah?

  And that's, that's his thing and that's fine. And it, it really is interesting how not just interesting, it's also sad how many of these people are in power espousing one idea. And then they get exposed for literally living the life that they have condemned in the worst way possible. But then they don't, there isn't like a

• 1:34:55Trevor Noah?

  like a redemption is maybe the wrong word, but I, I wish that would make them go like, hey, look, so I, I, I, yeah, I actually am a conservative and I am also.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:35:05Trevor Noah?

  This and I am, so we can be, do you get what I'm saying?

• 1:35:07Speaker 00

  They can't do that.

• 1:35:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I guess sometimes I think when you're in a position of power or authority, it's easier to live a lie because most of the things that you see when you're up there are a lie.

• 1:35:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:19Speaker 02

  Work hard, you'll get somewhere. You know, if you save your money, your money will earn interest. You know, you have to study and then you'll get a position. Then a person goes, nothing here is true. Nothing here is true. So one lie from me is not gonna make a a big difference, but from what I'm hearing from Don is we must treat people who experiment the same way we treat people who put avocado on pizza.

• 1:35:43Speaker 02

  My not belong there.

• 1:35:44Speaker 00

  Dude, tell me this isn't true. I'm gonna get up now.

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  Oh, you don't like it when you.

• 1:35:51Speaker 00

  Are you an avocado toast person?

• 1:35:53Trevor Noah?

  No, I don't put avocado on pizza. I don't know where that came.

• 1:35:55Speaker 02

  You don't?

• 1:35:56Trevor Noah?

  Avocado on pizza.

• 1:35:58Speaker 02

  Trevor.

• 1:35:58Trevor Noah?

  I don't put avo- which pizza have I ever added avocado to?

• 1:36:03Speaker 00

  I'm but mommy and daddy.

• 1:36:04Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, Eugene.

• 1:36:05Speaker 00

  Mom, daddy and daddy are fighting. I'm uncomfortable.

• 1:36:07Trevor Noah?

  Eugene, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Eugene, Eugene.

• 1:36:09Speaker 02

  I was.

• 1:36:10Trevor Noah?

  Eugene.

• 1:36:10Speaker 02

  Giovanni's?

• 1:36:11Trevor Noah?

  Eugene.

• 1:36:12Speaker 02

  Put. Large pepperoni.

• 1:36:13Trevor Noah?

  Put avocado on pizza. Ah, my friend. My friend, you can accuse me of many things.

• 1:36:20Speaker 02

  Gay?

• 1:36:21Trevor Noah?

  I will be gay on Epstein Island before I have put avocado on pizza, son.

• 1:36:27Trevor Noah?

  And to be clear, there's nothing wrong with being gay. Something wrong with being on Epstein's Island.

• 1:36:31Speaker 02

  Sharp.

• 1:36:31Trevor Noah?

  Unless you were like working as like a cleaner or something and you didn't know what was happening.

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  Because no one ever found that guy.

• 1:36:36Trevor Noah?

  Actually, who was taking all those pictures now that you think about it?

• 1:36:38Speaker 02

  The pictures.

• 1:36:39Trevor Noah?

  Who was developing the pictures and not saying anything?

• 1:36:41Speaker 00

  I have so many questions.

• 1:36:42Trevor Noah?

  Was it like King Co's?

• 1:36:43Speaker 00

  Who's going here?

• 1:36:44Trevor Noah?

  Who at King Co's was developing those pictures and not saying anything?

• 1:36:46Speaker 00

  Oh, my gosh. You guys joke about this a lot. Does it bother you that people think that you're gay?

• 1:36:52Trevor Noah?

  Me?

• 1:36:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:36:53Trevor Noah?

  Not even, not even in the slightest.

• 1:36:54Speaker 02

  That's the last person that it bothers.

• 1:36:56Trevor Noah?

  Not even in the.

• 1:36:57Speaker 00

  Because I saw internet rumors that Trevor, Trevor is gay.

• 1:37:01Trevor Noah?

  Not even in the slightest.

• 1:37:04Speaker 02

  We say to each other all the time. You're the only person that has ever said it. Ryan and Trevor and I say to each other all the time. Yeah, you're being gay. That's gay.

• 1:37:13Trevor Noah?

  It's, there's nothing, it's, so here, okay, here's, here's what it is for me. I'm, I, I am very lucky. I'll say this. I'm very lucky in that my mother, who was my primary caregiver growing up, had this and still has a very, um.

• 1:37:33Trevor Noah?

  It's almost not progressive in the way she sees the world. So my mom, for instance, never really got into labels. You get what I'm saying? My mom was very, as she would say it, tomboyish when she was growing up. So my mom did, you know, she played sports and she was rough and she was this and she was.

• 1:37:53Trevor Noah?

  And so when my mom would meet like a gay or lesbian person, she almost treats it like you're just experiencing something in life. And she doesn't know how long that experience will be. It could be one year, it could be your whole life. She does not think of it as like your label and your conditioning or your anything. So she doesn't think of it as good or bad. She just goes like, oh, that's okay. Like if she met you as Don and be like, oh, Don, and then let's say it came out that you were gay, like in a conversation, she'd be like, oh, wow, and how long are you, oh, wow, and so you're gonna do it forever? Wow, but she wouldn't treat it like it's a bad thing. She'd just be like, oh, damn, you're doing, you're doing this, this is, this is how you live your life. The same way she'll talk to somebody who's married, by the way. Does that make sense?

• 1:38:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:38:36Trevor Noah?

  So if she talks to a married person, she'll also go, so you're married, wow, and how long have you been married? Wow, and you're gonna be married your whole life? Wow, she, she just sees your decisions in life or your proclivities or the way you are as you?

• 1:38:50Speaker 02

  But I guess also, Tina, we were lucky because growing up, we were never exposed to shows, content.

• 1:38:57Speaker 00

  What did you just say? What did you call him?

• 1:38:58Speaker 02

  Tina.

• 1:38:59Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no, Tina, no, Tina means us.

• 1:39:01Speaker 00

  Oh, okay.

• 1:39:01Trevor Noah?

  Tina is a, yeah, a Zulu word for us.

• 1:39:03Speaker 00

  I was like.

• 1:39:03Trevor Noah?

  You thought you called me Tina?

• 1:39:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:05Trevor Noah?

  Now you knew.

• 1:39:06Speaker 00

  Don was like, whoa. Is that your drag name?

• 1:39:08Trevor Noah?

  You called me Tina.

• 1:39:11Trevor Noah?

  Hey, Don caught that quick. Tina, what's going on here?

• 1:39:14Speaker 00

  Tina Noah.

• 1:39:17Speaker 00

  Tonight, performing at the Roxy, Tina Noah.

• 1:39:24Speaker 00

  But by the way, when I told you that, there's always a way to ask the question?

• 1:39:27Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:39:27Speaker 00

  I asked you if you were gay in that question.

• 1:39:30Trevor Noah?

  Oh, that's fascinating.

• 1:39:32Speaker 02

  It's good, this one.

• 1:39:34Trevor Noah?

  That is fascinating.

• 1:39:35Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:39:35Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but you're saying.

• 1:39:37Speaker 00

  Have you ever thought about it?

• 1:39:39Trevor Noah?

  Well.

• 1:39:43Speaker 02

  So I was saying that we, growing up, we missed that bus of stigmatizing people who are gay. So we never, we, we never had those shows, we never had those movies where people who are gay are being victimized.

• 1:39:57Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, maybe for like, and I mean like us in a small circle, yeah, just us. We're not saying for everyone, us.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  Tina, we, we use the word gay as a way of saying you don't wanna do that.

• 1:40:08Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, it's not, it's not a.

• 1:40:09Speaker 02

  Let's go ride a bicycle in the cold. I don't want, ah, you be gay, where now? So it wa, do you understand what I mean?

• 1:40:16Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:16Speaker 02

  It was never derogatory for us because we never, and, and, and when you see the history, maybe like in New York, of how the gay community was being targeted and how they had to form little communities of dancing and doing makeup and doing shows and just being free with each other, you're like, oh, okay, if you grew up seeing that, you would understand that there was a group of people who believed in a certain thing that were victimized by the rest of everyone. Right?

• 1:40:42Speaker 00

  Yes, but I, I understand that.

• 1:40:45Speaker 02

  Hundred percent.

• 1:40:45Speaker 00

  But you understand it when I said being gay is not an insult.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely.

• 1:40:50Speaker 00

  You're still using it as an insult.

• 1:40:51Trevor Noah?

  Ah, but we'll use it for everything. No, no, I'm saying we even use other things as an insult.

• 1:40:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, don't, don't even bet on us, Tina.

• 1:40:57Trevor Noah?

  We will, we will, no, no, we will use.

• 1:40:59Speaker 02

  Everywhere.

• 1:41:00Trevor Noah?

  But we'll use anything as an insult. We can, we can use like, like you being kosa now. Does that make sense?

• 1:41:06Speaker 02

  You being what?

• 1:41:07Trevor Noah?

  Kosa, so I'm, I'm kosa, my family, my culture, kosa, so kosa zulu twana zongai.

• 1:41:12Speaker 00

  Ah, got it.

• 1:41:12Trevor Noah?

  But you can say that, sometimes people say it with like, amashangan.

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Yes, if you're being colorful, you're being shangan now. If you're being stubborn, you're being zulu now.

• 1:41:21Trevor Noah?

  So it's not the, the thing is not the insult.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  You are being.

• 1:41:24Trevor Noah?

  But you know what's interesting is the more, the more you travel, the more you realize how, depending on how you view it, I think it's beautifully complicated these things can be. A simple example.

• 1:41:38Trevor Noah?

  When I came to America, it was interesting to see how sensitive people got, if you refer to their weight, like if you said you're fat or you've gained weight or you it was like a, it's the one of the biggest taboos. I'll tell you, growing up in South Africa, in most parts of Africa that I've been to, my friends from the Middle East will tell me this as well. Fat was like a compliment. And if your grandparents said it to you, they never said it in like a a negative way. They were like, oh, look at you getting fat.

• 1:42:05Speaker 00

  Doing well.

• 1:42:06Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, yeah. And it was it was genuinely, you're doing well. More kids when I was growing up were roasted for being skinny. Like that was, oh my god.

• 1:42:14Speaker 02

  Nicknames.

• 1:42:15Trevor Noah?

  Sticks manzanza.

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  Skinny Malindi.

• 1:42:18Speaker 00

  Do you do you have, do you ever use the N word? Do you ever?

• 1:42:20Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Speaker 00

  Do you use the N word in Africa?

• 1:42:22Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, but but again, no, but this is a perfect, no, but this is a perfect example. We used it and still use it because it was like the most aspirational thing that existed in our world. It's funny, we were chilling chilling with Vic Mensa on the show.

• 1:42:36Speaker 00

  I love Vic.

• 1:42:37Trevor Noah?

  And Vic was saying, whenever Africans use the N word, he's a little bit like, like you guys are not saying it right.

• 1:42:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:44Trevor Noah?

  The way you're saying it, he's like, niga. He's like, I don't know, it doesn't, he's like, I'm with you, but you're saying it wrong. There's too many Es in the word, there's too many. But I I genuinely find it beautiful because I, if you are, here's here's how I'll put it.

• 1:43:05Trevor Noah?

  I think social media has robbed us of the nuance of the of the concentric circles that our lives are lived within. There are things you will say with your husband that you would never say to somebody who's not your husband. And then we expand it. There's things you'd say to your family that you would never say outside of your family. You expand it. There's things you'd say with your friends that you'd never say. You know what I mean?

• 1:43:31Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:43:31Trevor Noah?

  We've now made it seem like the words and phrases that we may use in our tiniest circles are the things that we Eugene and I would never say certain things to other people, regardless of what the word is.

• 1:43:42Speaker 00

  Right, right.

• 1:43:42Trevor Noah?

  Because we know, this is, no, you're not, you don't roll with us. You know what I mean? We wouldn't say anything. Shangan, we didn't say zongga because we know it's a derogatory term sometimes to say shangan. We, they're just like, but do you ever feel like that? It's like

• 1:43:57Speaker 00

  I do.

• 1:43:57Trevor Noah?

  We've robbed ourselves as people of the ability to know that something is wrong. But within the context of friendships and relationships, has no malice attached to it.

• 1:44:07Speaker 00

  I'm glad you said that because I've been dying to when I knew that when you asked me to be on the show. And then I saw this, I was like, oh, I gotta ask Trevor about this. So you said that you know, you don't say things that you know are wrong or inappropriate for that particular circle or what have you.

• 1:44:23Trevor Noah?

  I try my best not to, yeah.

• 1:44:24Speaker 00

  So the Kevin Hart roast.

• 1:44:26Trevor Noah?

  Yes.

• 1:44:27Speaker 00

  How'd you feel about that?

• 1:44:29Trevor Noah?

  Ah, man, I had too many feelings about the Kevin Hart roast. Um, I think the first feeling I had was maybe, maybe I was naive or maybe roasts have changed, but like, I, I didn't like that the roast was as written as it was for everyone. Mm hmm. That's the first thing I'll say, right? Because in my opinion, a roast is supposed to be an opportunity for each person to write the funniest expression of how they feel about another person.

• 1:44:57Speaker 00

  And do their authentic brand of comedy.

• 1:44:59Trevor Noah?

  Yes, but even if it's not, but even if it's not true, you're going, what are all the things I can roast Eugene about? What are all the things I can roast Don about? And they're not true, but these are things that come from my lens. Mm hmm. I, I, I think I can make these things funny. That's, and, and it's, it's, it comes from a place of love. That's what I think a good roast is supposed to be. It's supposed to be people who know you, people who like you. And then you can, and there'll be like edges on the dais because you might not know someone. So you can, shots can get fired in any direction. So that's, that's like on a, like on a comedy writing side. I was like, huh. It was weird when people like, let's scroll past that on the prompter and all the writers gave me that. And I was like, wait, what are we doing? Then why don't the writers just come and do this?

• 1:45:37Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:45:37Trevor Noah?

  That's the first thought I had. The second feeling I had was, it was just a weird one. I felt like it was weird that all the black comedians who came on stage told jokes about the people who were there. But then a lot of the white comedians who came on told jokes about black people.

• 1:45:57Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:45:59Trevor Noah?

  I was like, I was like, wait, wait, wait. I thought it was the roast of Kevin Hart. Say what you want about Cheryl Underwood, say what you want about Regina, say what you want about Naim or whoever's up there. But it was weird that like just, it, this was just like a black joke that had nothing to do with a person. And then you you could just you're like, wait, George Floyd, what? The roast of black people. Yeah, but you're like, but what does George Floyd have? I don't even understand the the connecting thread between George Floyd and Kevin Hart. You haven't shown me the connecting thread at all. I don't I don't know. What did you what did you feel?

• 1:46:34Speaker 00

  Uh, look, I'm all for free speech and and comedy. I think that comedians should be given a wide berth. But the really good ones understand how to do it. And there must be a there there. I thought with some of those jokes, there's no there there. I look, Kevin Hart, I'm a huge fan of Kevin Hart. I really admire what he's done business wise, you know, so that's a whole nother thing. But um, I thought that I was uncomfortable with some of the white comedians who were making jokes about black people. I felt that it was just an excuse for them to be racist.

• 1:47:07Trevor Noah?

  That's what I mean.

• 1:47:08Speaker 00

  In public, and it wasn't funny or interesting. As a matter of fact, I didn't laugh until um, Jeff Ross came up. The whole beginning of the thing, I was like, I don't, this isn't funny. Why, what like, what's happening here? And then Jeff Ross came on, I'm like, OK, good. And then Chelsea Handler, Chelsea is good. And so then, you know, and then I thought Cheryl Underwood stole the show.

• 1:47:28Trevor Noah?

  No, she was phenomenal.

• 1:47:29Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 1:47:29Trevor Noah?

  She's phenomenal, yeah.

• 1:47:30Speaker 00

  Um, but I just thought it was um, you know, if you're gonna tell a joke, the very simple thing is that it has to be funny. And I didn't find some of those things funny. I found them insulting, that's a roast. But I didn't think that they were, I thought they were inappropriate. But do I think people should be canceled for it? No, I'm uncomfortable with it. I don't think that they should be doing it. I'm not a fan of it, but you do you.

• 1:47:51Trevor Noah?

  So I'll disagree with you on one side. I don't think anyone has the right to say anything is or isn't funny. As a comedian, I've always hated that. Whenever someone says that wasn't funny, I'm like, no, no, no. I didn't find that funny. In the same way, some people don't think Korean food is nice. And some people don't think that Indian food is good. And some people, that's your opinion, and that's fine. But you cannot say it definitively is how I feel about anything that is a a matter of taste. Right? There are many comedians who I don't find funny, but I would never say they are not funny.

• 1:48:23Speaker 00

  Because other people find them funny.

• 1:48:25Trevor Noah?

  Yeah. Because it's it it's it's music, it's a joke, it's a painting, it's it's completely subjective. Sometimes I watch it and I go like huh, I don't think that was funny, but I don't go, it wasn't funny. That's that's the first thing for me. So I and I know it seems like semantics, but I think people.

• 1:48:41Speaker 00

  No, no, I understand what you're saying.

• 1:48:42Trevor Noah?

  I always think people should remember that not everything is for you and that's great, right? Um, that that that was, that's the only thing that I disagree with. The thing that got me, as I say, was I was going. I, because I love roasts, I just felt robbed. Because I felt like the roast wasn't about the people.

• 1:49:01Speaker 00

  Who were there.

• 1:49:02Trevor Noah?

  Who were there. It was just like, you know? And then it it it was like, okay, like I'll give you an example. Here's a joke that I thought was could be construed as racist. But I think was also extremely funny. Maybe I would have changed like one word. It was the the joke when um Shane Gillis said Kevin Hart is so short, they would have to lynch him from a bonsai tree.

• 1:49:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:49:28Trevor Noah?

  Joke wise, I think that's phenomenal. I think it's funny because of like the the what it is doing in the joke is a very funny thing. Now, lynching is not funny. Uh, you know, slavery is not funny. All these things are not funny, but that's not like the job. The job of comedy is to funny in what's not funny. I think that joke, it gets marred by every other joke of the night that wasn't as good technically. From every other person who's there, not Shane Gillis. It's just like, but I'm like, yeah, but you know, Cat Williams, I thought was amazing. I thought there were some jokes that everyone said they were amazing. So again.

• 1:50:08Trevor Noah?

  Can I tell you what I loved most about the roast, funny enough? If you asked me as Trevor, you go like, what did you think about the roast? The thing I love most about it is that it made people feel something. The audience had a reaction, the people there, even Shane would say, damn, this section is not with us at all. People responded to it. Maybe I am, maybe I'm starved of, of authenticity so much that that's all I focused on. But I actually liked that people were like.

• 1:50:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, look.

• 1:50:39Trevor Noah?

  I like, I like that you as Don had a feeling about it.

• 1:50:41Speaker 00

  I feel the same way because like I said, I wouldn't cancel anybody for it. I think it created a conversation and I think it's good for people to be pissed off and not like things and, and, and.

• 1:50:49Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:49Speaker 00

  And you say I disagree with you. Okay, great. We disagreed. That just mean we don't like each other.

• 1:50:52Trevor Noah?

  Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

• 1:50:53Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:50:54Trevor Noah?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:54Speaker 00

  So I, I, it is what it is. So I feel the same way. I'm glad it happened and I'm, it gave me something to talk about. It gave me content. But by no means am I criticizing Kevin Hart or.

• 1:51:05Trevor Noah?

  Oh, yeah, no, no, no, no, we're not even saying that.

• 1:51:07Speaker 00

  But you know what I'm saying?

• 1:51:08Trevor Noah?

  No, no, completely, completely. But that's why I say the great comedians for me, because Cat did it really well. If you watch Cat's whole roast again, you can't tell if he believes it or doesn't believe it or like he, he. For me, he executed a ten out of ten roast.

• 1:51:24Speaker 00

  He's brilliant.

• 1:51:25Trevor Noah?

  Because A, it felt like everything was written by him. And B, it felt like everything was true from his point of view. He just said it in a funny way.

• 1:51:34Speaker 00

  But he had a, a higher degree of difficulty because he had been beefing for so mu- so long. So, you know, he had that. I'm sure that was part of his thing.

• 1:51:42Trevor Noah?

  But Cheryl Underwood did the same for me.

• 1:51:43Speaker 00

  Cheryl is so good.

• 1:51:44Trevor Noah?

  When she came out and said, she said, I know your kind.

• 1:51:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:47Trevor Noah?

  You white boys, I know your kind in public, you're, but it's like, oh, you wish you could hit that.

• 1:51:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:52Trevor Noah?

  You wish you could. That, that to me is also. You know, like Eugene and I will talk about this all the time. Sometimes we, we. How can I put it? Let's go back to kids raising themselves.

• 1:52:10Trevor Noah?

  One of the things I'm sad about in today's world is that we no longer leave kids alone on a playground to resolve their own disputes.

• 1:52:19Speaker 00

  Or let them go ride their bikes all day and just, you don't do that.

• 1:52:23Trevor Noah?

  Because what we then do is as a society, if we are raised as kids who have parents in the playgrounds all the time. We become kids who call our parents when something is wrong all the time and we don't resolve our disputes.

• 1:52:36Trevor Noah?

  When you're just on the playground, sometimes you're gonna fight, sometimes you'll punch the other person, sometimes they punch you, they headlock, sometimes you just shout at each other. Sometimes you walk away crying, sometimes you don't, sometimes you become best friends with that person. And I feel like that's necessary for a society to succeed. So for me, even in that world of, of the comedy. I think it's why Shane Gillis kept on saying, I phoned her, I phoned her and I asked her about these jokes. I phoned, because the audience there was going, ah, ah Shane, ah, ah Shane. And he's like, no, guys, I phoned Cheryl and I, and he spoke about it afterwards. He even said on, on um, his podcast that he has with his friend, he said, man, that he's like, he said, damn, man, the jokes were racist. He said it.

• 1:53:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:53:14Trevor Noah?

  He's like, ah, man, there was some crazy racist joke. He's like, but I, I asked Cheryl about the ones about her husband and she said she, she loved them and but the, the people weren't involved, and now it goes to the parents in a way. I'm like, ah, sometimes it doesn't need to.

• 1:53:28Speaker 00

  But as you were sitting, as you were talking about that, I think about the people who go on job interviews with their parents. Like their parents will drive them to, kids, uh, uh, young people now go on, their parents will drive them to a job interview. My husband who works in real estate, thirty year old people who are looking for their first apartment are twenty, their parents come and, yeah. And chaperone them.

• 1:53:51Trevor Noah?

  Yeah, we're gonna lose, we're gonna lose more than we think.

• 1:53:53Speaker 00

  I got, I have another appointment.

• 1:53:55Trevor Noah?

  You're going?

• 1:53:56Speaker 00

  I have another appointment.

• 1:53:57Trevor Noah?

  Well, you gotta come back then.

• 1:53:58Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:53:59Trevor Noah?

  No, no, no, I mean, like, you gotta come back.

• 1:54:01Speaker 00

  No, okay.

• 1:54:02Trevor Noah?

  Just, we'll do another one.

• 1:54:03Speaker 00

  You like me, you really like me?

• 1:54:04Trevor Noah?

  Ah, Don.

• 1:54:05Speaker 02

  You think we'd like?

• 1:54:06Trevor Noah?

  This guy.

• 1:54:07Speaker 02

  We'd never do that to you.

• 1:54:09Trevor Noah?

  You think there's makeup here, Don? No, man, this was amazing.

• 1:54:12Speaker 00

  I love this.

• 1:54:13Trevor Noah?

  This was like, genuinely, man.

• 1:54:14Speaker 00

  This is what a podcast should be.

• 1:54:17Trevor Noah?

  Music to my ears, but for real, man, thank you, thank you for joining us.

• 1:54:20Speaker 00

  Can I be the third host someday?

• 1:54:22Trevor Noah?

  There's no hosts here, there's just people at a table.

• 1:54:24Speaker 02

  If, if you feel like, yo, do you guys wanna hang?

• 1:54:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. Do you ever put four people, five people, six people?

• 1:54:31Trevor Noah?

  No, no, try that one.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's no sides.

• 1:54:34Speaker 00

  You guys are not tri-sexuals.

• 1:54:39Speaker 00

  I really enjoyed this.

• 1:54:40Trevor Noah?

  Don, this was amazing, man. You're the greatest, man.

• 1:54:42Speaker 00

  Good to see you.

• 1:54:43Trevor Noah?

  Greatest, thank you.

• 1:54:48Trevor Noah?

  What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Day Zero Productions in partnership with Sirius XM. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Sanaz Yamin, and Jess Hackel. Rebecca Chain is our producer. Our development researcher is Marcia Robiu. Music mixing and mastering by Hannes Brown. Random other stuff by Ryan Harduth. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next week for another episode of What Now.

• 1:55:19Speaker 04

  Time for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. It's the tangiest time of the year. For a limited time, head to McDonald's and get a McRib sandwich. Make it a meal by adding a medium fries and a soft drink like an ice cold Diet Dr. Pepper. So grab a McRib sandwich and embrace the tang. Save time by ordering ahead on the app at participating McDonald's for a limited time. Dr. Pepper is a registered trademark of Dr. Pepper, 7-Up Inc.