526 - Virginia Slim Minute

On today’s episode, Karen covers the first woman to climb Mount Everest, Junko Tabei. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Speaker 00

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• 1:13Speaker 02

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• 2:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 2:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 2:01Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:03Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:05Karen Kilgariff?

  This is a solo episode.

• 2:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And you know what that means.

• 2:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Makeup tips.

• 2:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Makeup tips. I don't know how it happened. We were just like, let's start solo episodes.

• 2:15Karen Kilgariff?

  With another one of our passions.

• 2:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, of what's it called when you say you should try something?

• 2:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Recommendations?

• 2:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 2:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. Recommendations and like beauty stuff.

• 2:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Beauty talk, yeah.

• 2:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like fun stuff.

• 2:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you want to go first, Tim?

• 2:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure. I can never find the correct color of foundation.

• 2:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 2:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Because my base color is red with green.

• 2:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You're also like, you seem like you should be pale, but you're tan.

• 2:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 2:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 2:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I get, people put pale makeup on me all the time and then I look like a ghoul.

• 2:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 2:44Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a little brown under there and also a lot of red that reads as brown.

• 2:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 2:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The redness is a real problem.

• 2:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Sounds fun.

• 2:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Anyhow, there's a TikToker who I adore named Tyler Mars, who she, she has rosacea. So she's always giving these recommendations of like

• 3:01Georgia Hardstark?

  How to tone down the red.

• 3:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Covering and stuff. It's just like, I just look up if I need to get something.

• 3:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So anyhow, there's a foundation that I found on TikTok, of course.

• 3:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Of course.

• 3:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's, the brand is R E M. And it is the best foundation I've worn to date.

• 3:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Is it like, is it red correction foundation or it's just foundation that just works that way?

• 3:22Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like, it's a foundation color that somehow addresses all of the things that need to be covered without making me look like either a vampire or like I looked in high school with my one color of CoverGirl makeup.

• 3:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, God. Oh, God.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  That's just clowny, clowny.

• 3:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you smelled that recently, the like CoverGirl powder? Oh, my God. It'll bring you back.

• 3:41Karen Kilgariff?

  It would like immediate bawling. And I just want to say, I have bought every other foundation. So it's like, people are like, you've got to try it. Armani, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, sure, except for that for some reason on me it turns orange.

• 3:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so about what it works for you. I use Charlotte Tilbury right now, but in three weeks, it might not work anymore for me and I look terrible.

• 3:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it's real high stakes. And also a lot of panic decision making because we're like, now we're on camera again. Now we're on camera again.

• 4:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:06Karen Kilgariff?

  So I want to get it right. R E M, R E M's getting me there, I think.

• 4:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Mine is also like a face one. It's, I got, we got our makeup done recently and whenever I get my makeup done, I end up with tons of notes of what to buy because I don't fucking know and the makeup artist is great.

• 4:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:23Georgia Hardstark?

  The thing that I bought this time around, there's a drag queen named Kim Chi.

• 4:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Kim Chi, yeah.

• 4:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, who was on the, was a finalist on season eight of RuPaul's Drag Race. Kim Chi has a makeup line and Kim Chi's Puff Puff Pass Setting Powder. I got in two colors, like one for under eye and one for my skin. I am obsessed with it.

• 4:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, because you have been looking very like perfectly blurred.

• 4:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 4:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Like.

• 4:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Maybe you need to get your eyes checked.

• 4:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 4:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You actually can't see.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  I've been puff puff passing to myself right before the show starts. I'm gonna try that for sure.

• 5:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, it's called Puff Puff Pass Setting Powder and, you know, it comes in such a like cute, fun packaging that you're like, this isn't gonna do anything. You know what I mean?

• 5:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, yes.

• 5:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That's my brain, if that's how it works.

• 5:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:12Georgia Hardstark?

  But if the makeup artist hadn't like used it on me, I wouldn't have tried it. And now it's like, I use two different types of powder, which is like so not me. I'm so low maintenance.

• 5:21Karen Kilgariff?

  You're very advanced.

• 5:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:22Karen Kilgariff?

  I think this, living in the cultural world of drag queen dominance.

• 5:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Has benefited and like, it's raised all boats.

• 5:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Because, yeah, I care about makeup, but do I have that kind of time to be like, bake it in with a triangle pad or whatever? It's like, okay, but maybe not.

• 5:41Georgia Hardstark?

  If you're a drag queen, like you have to do that. You have to be like, good at it.

• 5:45Karen Kilgariff?

  You know all the tricks. And it has to stay on for like 12 hours through sweating, all the different things.

• 5:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, as you and I always say, we must listen to drag queens more.

• 5:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Please, always listen to drag queens.

• 5:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Let them pass, uh.

• 5:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Puff puff?

• 5:59Georgia Hardstark?

  No, I was gonna say.

• 6:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Pass legislation?

• 6:02Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the one. Let them pass legislation, please.

• 6:05Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 6:06Speaker 00

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• 6:58Karen Kilgariff?

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• 7:42Karen Kilgariff?

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• 8:15Karen Kilgariff?

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• 8:47Georgia Hardstark?

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• 8:52Karen Kilgariff?

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• 8:57Georgia Hardstark?

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• 9:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Well, what a perfect intro into my solo story for today.

• 9:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, really?

• 9:08Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 9:10Georgia Hardstark?

  It's actually terrible, okay.

• 9:11Karen Kilgariff?

  But why not? Well, only in kind of in that it's about a woman.

• 9:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Who's a trailblazer.

• 9:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 9:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Who's doing it all for herself.

• 9:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 9:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Much like Kim Chi and the rest of the RuPaul Dragway cast.

• 9:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 9:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Shout out, Katya. You covered the deaths on Mount Everest in our episode 174.

• 9:32Georgia Hardstark?

  One of my favorite stories to cover of all time.

• 9:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was good.

• 9:35Georgia Hardstark?

  I still think about it.

• 9:36Karen Kilgariff?

  We titled that episode "Rough Winds and High Water."

• 9:39Georgia Hardstark?

  That's funny.

• 9:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So we've talked about it before. When you think of Mount Everest, and I know you think about it a lot, the first name that usually pops into your head or anyone's head is Sir Edmund Hillary.

• 9:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 9:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The first man, along with his Sherpa, Tenzing Norgay, who got to the top of Mount Everest in 1953.

• 9:56Georgia Hardstark?

  The first ones to do it?

• 9:57Karen Kilgariff?

  First two to do it, yeah. And it was in 53. Today, I'm going to tell you about the boundary-breaking, trailblazing first woman to climb Mount Everest.

• 10:06Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 10:06Karen Kilgariff?

  This year marks the 50th anniversary of her achievement.

• 10:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Shut up.

• 10:11Karen Kilgariff?

  But like many of the great historic women that we talk about on this show, you've probably never heard her name. Writer Jenny Hall reported on her for CNN, writing, quote, "Her bravery helped her lead record-setting all-women expeditions and overcome the mountain of sexism in this male-dominated space. Yet very few organizations, even in Japan, have thought to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the first ascent of Everest by a woman."

• 10:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 10:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, then, fine, I'll do it.

• 10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It falls on Karen once again.

• 10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Once again, I'll do it. I'll celebrate women on Everest. Today I'm going to tell you about an athlete who refused to take no for an answer, who defied strict cultural expectations, and who was so unstoppable even an avalanche couldn't keep her down.

• 10:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 10:55Karen Kilgariff?

  This is the story of Japanese mountaineer Junko Tabei.

• 11:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing. I'd like, yes, I want to hear that. It never crossed my mind.

• 11:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 11:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Perfect.

• 11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Sources from this story that Marin used are a 2017 Outside Magazine article by Brad Fournette entitled "A Final Interview With Junko Tabei," and a 1996 Sports Illustrated article by Robert Horn entitled "No Mountain Too High For Her: How Junko Tabei Defied Japanese Views Of Women To Become An Expert Climber."

• 11:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Amazing.

• 11:27Karen Kilgariff?

  The rest of the sources are in our show notes. So, we begin in September of 1939, when Junko, at the time her last name was Ishibashi, is born in a small town in Japan's Fukushima Prefecture.

• 11:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:39Karen Kilgariff?

  A prefecture is basically a state.

• 11:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it.

• 11:41Karen Kilgariff?

  But I love the word prefecture.

• 11:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I love the word prefecture. Yeah, I do too.

• 11:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, sorry, while we're here, just because of that word.

• 11:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 11:48Karen Kilgariff?

  If you haven't watched Blue Eye Samurai on Netflix, it's an anime series, and it is like an Oscar-winning film.

• 11:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 11:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It is unbelievably made.

• 11:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Great.

• 11:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Great. Fukushima Prefecture is one of the country's largest prefectures, I keep saying it, stretched from the Pacific coast inward to the mountains. We all have heard of it from the devastating 2011 earthquake, and then tsunami, and then nuclear disaster. Very horrible time. But this is a stunning part of Japan, complete with ski resorts, hot springs, cherry blossoms, volcanic lakes, and beautiful places to hike. So it's no surprise that even as a little girl, Junko is captivated by the nature around her. When she's just 10 years old, her teacher takes her class on field trips to two nearby mountains, both around 6,000 feet in elevation, which aren't, you know, huge, but they're

• 12:43Karen Kilgariff?

  not small either, for kids especially. And Junko isn't the type of kid anyone would say was adventurous. She's very tiny. As a child, she endures multiple bouts of pneumonia, and even as an adult, she only ever gets to four foot nine and about 90 pounds. So she's a tiny lady. But Junko says that because of her stature, she's, quote, stamped as a weak child. But something clicks for her on these mountain field trips, and her life is never the same after. She will later remember, quote, "I was so surprised by the rocky, dry hills and a stream of hot water that came from a hot spring. I was shocked to feel a little chilly while we were at the top of the mountain because it was summer.

• 13:26Karen Kilgariff?

  I realized that there were so many things in the world which I have never encountered, and that it is fun to see and learn directly through one's own experiences. I became determined to go wherever I could go." Wow. So this is just a child being like, "I love life." Yeah. "I'm into this." Yeah. Although if I saw a hot spring in a Japanese mountain, I think I would lose it. Yeah, for sure. So cool. I mean, you can see it in Palm Springs, and it's still amazing. There it is. But of course, being a little girl with an interest in the outdoors comes with its challenges. It's post-World War II Japan, so many people are struggling financially. The country as a whole is just trying to get its bearings after a horrible war. And of course, with hiking, by the time you invest in a pair of good boots

• 14:11Karen Kilgariff?

  and transportation to the trail, it could be considered expensive by some people and frivolous to spend money to basically just hike around a mountain in really tough economic times. Yeah. But more than that, Junko is a girl, and at the time, Japan has very rigid social conventions for men and women. And hiking, climbing, and adventuring is squarely something men do. As Robert Horn's reports for Sports Illustrated, quote, "Despite Japan's tradition of explorers and adventurers, many of those who dared to strike out on their own paths, especially women, risked the fate foreseen in the Japanese adage, quote, 'The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.'" Yeah. Oh, my God, what a time. Yeah. And adventurers's dreams were often not considered appropriate

• 14:56Karen Kilgariff?

  for a young Japanese woman. So that's end quote. So after those formative grade school field trips, Junko never looks back because she doesn't care. She, she is not, for some reason, and I would love to know, was it just her personality? Did she have like a badass mom? But like, these incredibly strict kind of rules and expectations just don't faze her. By the time she's in high school, she plans hiking trips whenever she can. It's almost a meditative practice for her. She says, quote, "It wasn't like a competition. If you go slow, you can make it to the top. Or if you must, you can quit at the middle. But Japan was very poor at the time. I couldn't think about climbing mountains or any kind of leisure.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  We had to worry about what we would eat." So Junko eventually enrolls in an all-women's college in Tokyo where she studies English literature and plans on becoming a teacher. Unlike her fondness for outdoor activities, this is considered a respectable path for young women. All the while, Junko is dreaming about climbing, though. She manages to find a like-minded female friend at school and they train together during the week. On the weekends, they head out to the mountains. And by the time Junko graduates in 1962, she's become an experienced mountaineer. So as any other climber with her skill level would do, Junko goes right ahead and joins several alpine clubs. The thing is, these are understood to be for men. At the time, nothing like an alpine club exists for female climbers.

• 16:25Karen Kilgariff?

  And the reaction to Junko's membership is mixed. A few of the men respect her skill and her sense of adventure, but others outright refuse to climb with her.

• 16:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 16:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And many think that she's only hanging around to find a husband.

• 16:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay. Why else would you go?

• 16:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. It's not gorgeous Japanese mountainside.

• 16:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you like hiking, but you don't think women like hiking?

• 16:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. You like it just fine.

• 16:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and that's fine.

• 16:50Karen Kilgariff?

  But Junko stays focused, and by her mid-20s, she's summited every one of Japan's most prominent peaks.

• 16:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 16:56Karen Kilgariff?

  This includes Mount Fuji, which is about 12,400 feet above sea level. And she's funding these climbs by working as an editor for an academic journal and giving piano and English lessons. She does it all.

• 17:09Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, yeah.

• 17:10Karen Kilgariff?

  And she's tiny.

• 17:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 17:12Karen Kilgariff?

  She spends most of her downtime either climbing or training with the hopes of summiting larger and larger peaks. And then in 1965, Junko meets a man named Masanobu Tabeyi. He's a seasoned Japanese mountaineer in his own right.

• 17:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah.

• 17:26Karen Kilgariff?

  So she falls in love with another mountaineer.

• 17:29Georgia Hardstark?

  That's romantic. You gotta find someone who at least...

• 17:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Who likes your stuff.

• 17:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Supports your hobby.

• 17:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. They fall in love, and they're married the next year when Junko is 27 years old. But her parents don't approve of this marriage because Masanobu doesn't have a college degree. But Junko marries him anyway. She doesn't give a shit about anything. She's like, "Oh, is that your opinion about my life?

• 17:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 17:51Karen Kilgariff?

  I'll see you later."

• 17:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Enjoy it.

• 17:53Karen Kilgariff?

  And the two have a daughter together, who they name Noriko. And later, they have a son named Shinya. So now, she's not only the rare female mountaineer in 1960s Japan, she's also a working mother. When she's in her early 30s, Junko says that she, quote, "began to dream about going to the Himalayas with a team of only women."

• 18:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 18:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm. To make that happen, she does something that's never been done before in Japan. In 1969, she forms the country's very first women's climbing organization.

• 18:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 18:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Its name, translated into English, is sometimes reported as Ladies Climbing Club, and sometimes reported as Women's Mountaineering, depending on how people feel about it.

• 18:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And the group's slogan is, quote, "Let's go on an overseas expedition by ourselves."

• 18:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Translation. Yes, let's. Let's. Around 15 women join Junko's group, each united by a dream to climb the world's tallest mountains, but finding time to train is not easy. Like Junko, these women have jobs, or families, or both, and Japan's standard vacation time is just two weeks a year, which many people don't feel empowered to fully take because of Japan's intense work culture. Right. So you have it, but you kind of aren't supposed to go on it. Yeah. This is complicating in and of itself because these expeditions require time off for training and for travel. And on top of that, devoting time to a masculine hobby like mountaineering is stigmatized in the 1970s.

• 19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  The women face judgment for not wanting to devote their entire beings to their husbands and their children, to which Junko has said, quote, "I am a housewife. I just climb mountains because I love it. And if people want to call me that crazy mountain woman, that's okay." Cool. Love her. Eventually Junko and her group plan an expedition to Annapurna 3 in Nepal, which is nearly 25,000 feet in elevation. This is Junko's first time traveling outside of Japan, and she leads the climb. The group travels up a new route to Annapurna 3's summit, and they successfully reach the top on May 19, 1970. Karen Kilgariff is eight days old. Oh, my God. It's her first week in the world. She's loving it.

• 20:08Karen Kilgariff?

  She's loving this energy. So they, on May 19, 1970, become the first women ever to climb Annapurna 3. Wow. And now their slogan is, "Let's be the first women to climb Annapurna 3 by ourselves." That's not true. It's there, on the summit of Annapurna 3, that Junko experiences another sort of spiritual awakening. Robert Horn reports in Sports Illustrated, quote, "The ascent profoundly changed her. There would be no more slaving in the late hours to prove that she was her company's most loyal worker. No more fears about speaking her mind. No more concerns about what people said behind her back." Wow. It's also, in this moment, that Junko really starts to consider climbing Mount Everest.

• 20:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Because she did that one. Yeah. You might as well do this one. Oh, yeah. She brings the idea to her climbing club, and they begin to mobilize with that goal in mind. But Junko says, quote, "Most of the men in the Alpine community were against our plan, saying that it would be impossible to go to Everest on a women's-only expedition." Why?

• 21:12Georgia Hardstark?

  They're just so negative.

• 21:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, God.

• 21:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we get a little positivity?

• 21:15Karen Kilgariff?

  How about, "Or just shut up."

• 21:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, or just shut up.

• 21:18Karen Kilgariff?

  If you can't, zip it. So Junko and her crew set out to prove them wrong. They don't need us saying this.

• 21:23Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 21:24Karen Kilgariff?

  They're already doing it. It's, it already happened.

• 21:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 21:27Karen Kilgariff?

  But getting to Everest is not easy. Of course, the women first need permission from Nepal's government. So they apply in 1971, but then they're told that there's no space for their expedition, and there won't be until 1975. So that would be upsetting. You have to wait four years to the average person. But they're not discouraged. They just figure it will give them more time to train. And Junko uses this long waiting period to help the group nail down sponsorships. But of course, finding financial support is tricky. As Junko puts it, quote, "Most companies' reaction that was for women, it's impossible to climb Mount Everest." No vision.

• 22:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 22:06Karen Kilgariff?

  You're the, why aren't you the company that goes, "But if they do it..."

• 22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally.

• 22:10Karen Kilgariff?

  "...we'll all be..."

• 22:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And even if they don't, they'll still get fucking average, like, eyes on the prize. Yeah.

• 22:16Karen Kilgariff?

  We just have come, we truly have come a long way, baby.

• 22:18Georgia Hardstark?

  In marketing?

• 22:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And then we both smoke, because now it's the Virginia Slim Minute.

• 22:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you're good, yeah.

• 22:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Plus, in the early 70s, Japan experiences a years-long, oil-related economic crisis. There's just less sponsorship money to go around. Fortunately, the group locks down two sponsorships, one from a major Japanese newspaper and one from a TV station. But the budget's relatively small. The male groups often raise hundreds of thousands of dollars when they do their climbs, and they raise it in Japan and elsewhere. Junko's group only manages to raise about $70,000. So to pick up the slack, each member has to come up with an additional approximately $5,000 each. And it's 1.5 million yen that they have to come up with, and it's worth, do you want to guess, in today's money?

• 23:09Georgia Hardstark?

  You said they have to come up with $5,000 in the 70s, which in today's money would be... Twenty-eight.

• 23:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Thirty thousand.

• 23:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 23:20Karen Kilgariff?

  So finally, 1975 rolls around. It's time for the women to head to Nepal. Years later, Outside magazine reporter Brad Frenette will ask Junko if she ever felt hesitation as the climb date approached. She says, quote, "No, I never thought of giving up once. We had worked so hard to obtain the climbing permit."

• 23:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:38Karen Kilgariff?

  She got the paperwork.

• 23:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 23:40Karen Kilgariff?

  She's not going anywhere.

• 23:42Speaker 05

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• 24:10Georgia Hardstark?

  There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 24:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You know that feeling, laying in bed, staring at the ceiling, counting all the times you said something weird.

• 24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you wake up and check your sleep score. Now you have to start your day knowing that you failed at sleeping.

• 24:25Karen Kilgariff?

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• 24:27Georgia Hardstark?

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• 24:32Karen Kilgariff?

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• 24:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Fall asleep to the next chapter of an audiobook like The Odyssey, a nervous system reset meditation, or a calming sound bath.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you can find out which gives you 20 more minutes of deep sleep each night.

• 24:49Georgia Hardstark?

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• 24:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co.

• 24:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye. The Hulu original series, Phony, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.

• 25:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception: his mom.

• 25:09Georgia Hardstark?

  To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.

• 25:14Karen Kilgariff?

  As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.

• 25:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?

• 25:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 25:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 25:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 25:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 25:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Sometimes being a little salty is completely justified.

• 25:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Pair your salty side with something sweet with the new salted caramel flavor from Kachava.

• 25:49Karen Kilgariff?

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• 25:56Georgia Hardstark?

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• 26:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Their new salted caramel flavor combines sweet caramel with a little salt, so you get that salty-sweet balance along with the nutrition Kachava is known for.

• 26:10Georgia Hardstark?

  When the day demands your salty side, fuel it with plant-based protein that actually tastes delicious.

• 26:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I really do love Kachava, and I really do think it does taste delicious for getting you through the morning, filling in the gap if you just need some protein and you need some vitamins. It's such a nice little treat.

• 26:26Georgia Hardstark?

  It's such an easy way to get everything you need, and it tastes good, too, which is just huge bonus.

• 26:31Karen Kilgariff?

  So embrace your salty side.

• 26:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Go to kachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.

• 26:37Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Kachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.

• 26:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 26:43Karen Kilgariff?

  So that's spring. The women set out. Junko is 35 at the time, and she serves as co-leader for the 15-woman expedition.

• 26:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 26:50Karen Kilgariff?

  They're accompanied by six experienced Sherpa guides, and together they embark on the most difficult, grueling climb of their lives. Any Everest climb is punishing, and Junko's is no exception. But by May 3, 1975, her group has steadily made it more than 20,000 feet, and they have about 9,000 feet to go.

• 27:10Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 27:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, around this point, they encounter terrible weather, which is a reality climbers face, of course, as they go up Everest, especially the closer they get to the top. So these gals set up camp. They try to get some rest before continuing on, but it's not a lovely, you know, bucolic spot. It's freezing cold. They're in tents that are being whipped around by these terrible winds. Hours later, when they're sleeping, not long after midnight on May 4, Junko is awakened by an extremely loud, low rumble, and she instantly knows what it is. It's an avalanche barreling down the mountain.

• 27:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I saw a video recently of an avalanche, and I, like...

• 27:53Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, no.

• 27:54Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no.

• 27:55Georgia Hardstark?

  It's terrifying.

• 27:56Karen Kilgariff?

  It's horrible. So before she can even react, Junko is swept up by a wall of snow and ice. She is tangled in her tent with the, some other climbers.

• 28:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 28:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So they're tumbling down the mountain, getting knocked all over the place and against each other. And it's really violent and chaotic, of course. And then, once it ends, they're buried in the snow.

• 28:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Still in the tent.

• 28:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 28:20Karen Kilgariff?

  All wrapped up. When it all comes to a stop, Junko is in extreme pain. She worries she's gonna die. She then has a vision of her daughter Noriko playing outside their home back in Tokyo. And then she blacks out.

• 28:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 28:33Karen Kilgariff?

  The next thing she remembers is the Sherpa guides pulling her out of the snow by her ankles.

• 28:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 28:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Which actually would probably be pretty easy. Cause she's little.

• 28:42Georgia Hardstark?

  She's so tiny.

• 28:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Somehow miraculously, everyone survives the avalanche, which Junko credits to the experience and quick thinking of their Sherpas.

• 28:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure.

• 28:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank God. I mean, like, 15 women just... But they're not totally unscathed. Junko is battered and bruised, and her body is extremely sore. She has to rest for two days before she's even able to lift herself up.

• 29:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 29:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Let alone keep climbing.

• 29:06Georgia Hardstark?

  No, like, that would be the end of it.

• 29:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:08Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, for me.

• 29:09Karen Kilgariff?

  They'd be like, "Thanks so much." But she's...

• 29:11Georgia Hardstark?

  "Thanks so much, but there was an avalanche."

• 29:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 29:14Georgia Hardstark?

  "On me."

• 29:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But she's like, "We got the permit."

• 29:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:16Karen Kilgariff?

  "We're not leaving."

• 29:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 29:20Karen Kilgariff?

  She, and actually, what she did say is, quote, "As soon as I knew everyone was alive, I was determined to continue."

• 29:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 29:26Karen Kilgariff?

  The women continue working towards Everest's peak with Junko still at the helm. At times, her injuries are so bad, she has to crawl on her hands and knees.

• 29:35Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck?

• 29:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:37Georgia Hardstark?

  I have no excuse. Like, I don't...

• 29:41Karen Kilgariff?

  You get out to Griffith Park tomorrow?

• 29:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, I'm talking about, like, doing my laundry. I'm not even talking about hiking.

• 29:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Just do it on your hands and knees.

• 29:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't. I have no excuse not to do my laundry when this...

• 29:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I know. I mean, I think there's some people born with this, like, brain chemistry that's like, up, up, up.

• 29:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:59Karen Kilgariff?

  God bless them.

• 30:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So she has to crawl on her hands and knees, but she just keeps going. And then 12 days later, the team reaches the final camp of their climb, which is just below Everest's peak. By this point, they are running low on oxygen. Originally, they'd planned to send two women up to the summit. Now they only have enough oxygen to send one. Wow. These women clearly love one another on this mountaineering team. No one wants to take the glory for themselves. But after they discuss it, the team decides Junko should be the one to make the final push to the top. Yeah. They're like, get on your hands and knees and you crawl up there. So now Junko realizes that to get to Everest's summit, she has to climb this skinny ridge of ice. We may have talked about it on your story, I can't remember.

• 30:46Karen Kilgariff?

  It is just wide enough for a human body, a ridge of ice. There are 15,000-foot drops on either side. I remember that drop. Okay. Yeah. It's called the knife-edge ridge. Yeah. And it leads up to the Hillary step, which is like the final spot before you go, you're on the peak. Oh, my God. So it's named after Edmund Hillary. She's going to Hillary's step. That must be just like a moment for those climbers. Right. And then also for her, where it's like, I don't know if they're aware of it, but like, she's the first woman. Yeah. So it's like, a true moment. One wrong move here, though, would absolutely result in a fatal fall. It's all or nothing. Yeah. I didn't understand that, I think, until I read this story.

• 31:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Junko, who's accompanied by a celebrated Sherpa guide named Ang Charing, now must crawl sideways while sort of hugging the ridge to make it to the Hillary step. She later says, quote, "I'd never felt that tense in my entire life. I felt all my hair standing on end. I had no idea I would have to face that, even though I'd read all the accounts of previous expeditions. I got so angry at the previous climbers who hadn't warned me about that knife-edge traverse in their expedition records. Isn't that so like men?" My heart just dropped thinking of doing that. Like crawling, hugging. Yeah. And she didn't know it was there.

• 32:09Georgia Hardstark?

  She didn't.

• 32:09Karen Kilgariff?

  No one said, hey, also, real quick.

• 32:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Things are scary.

• 32:13Karen Kilgariff?

  No. But just after noon on May 16th, 1975, Junko Tabey reaches the summit of Mount Everest and becomes the first woman ever and the 36th person in history to do it. She's made it to the highest point on earth.

• 32:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 32:30Karen Kilgariff?

  So 35 dudes.

• 32:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Didn't tell the secret. Sucks. Later, when asked if she shouted or cried when she reached the summit, Junko simply says, quote, "I didn't shout anything. I just thought, oh, I don't have to climb anymore."

• 32:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:44Karen Kilgariff?

  We love her.

• 32:46Georgia Hardstark?

  You've got to save your energy.

• 32:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Word of Junko's historic summit spreads quickly and becomes a celebratory moment around the world. The king of Nepal even reaches out and awards medals of honor to Junko and the rest of the women in her climbing team.

• 33:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 33:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Back in Japan, any naysayers the women may encounter are overshadowed by a wall of glowing media coverage. They're profiled in newspapers, covered in countless news reports, they become the subject of a TV mini-series, and they're memorialized in textbooks. Junko, of course, draws a particular amount of interest from the public, and not just because of her historic summit, she's also celebrated for her humble leadership and her devotion to her teammates, and for how she never once gave up despite her injuries from being in that avalanche. Junko doesn't exactly love being in the spotlight, though, and she knows she could capitalize off of all this media interest, and that would certainly help pay for future climbs, she chooses to decline all corporate sponsorships.

• 33:46Karen Kilgariff?

  And she does this because, quote, "If I accept a sponsorship, then climbing the mountain is not my own experience. It's like working for the company."

• 33:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 33:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Instead, Junko supports herself by continuing to teach music and English, but also working as a hiking guide, writing books and giving speeches. In those speeches, she encourages others to chase their dreams, even if it means defying social norms. Junko tells crowds to, quote, "be the nail that sticks out."

• 34:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Be the nail that sticks out.

• 34:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Love it. That's what you said to me. Well, then I'm going to use it against you. Fuck, yeah.

• 34:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, turn it around.

• 34:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Hell, yeah.

• 34:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Junko spends the rest of her life doing exactly what she loves, which of course is climbing. In 1992, at 53 years old, she completes another historic first. Junko becomes the very first woman to complete the Seven Summits, which are the highest mountains on each continent.

• 34:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 34:41Karen Kilgariff?

  These include Denali, Kilimanjaro and Mount Vinsen in Antarctica.

• 34:45Georgia Hardstark?

  What if that was your mom? Like, how inspiring would that be?

• 34:49Karen Kilgariff?

  You keep coming home with a bag of laundry and you're like, hello, is any, no one?

• 34:53Georgia Hardstark?

  No one. Okay. I mean, like, inspire, inspiration wise, where it's like, oh, my mom's fifty something, like, I should probably, like,

• 35:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Do something?

• 35:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Be like her.

• 35:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly. Over the years, Junko becomes more and more interested in the environmental toll of modern climbing, especially on Everest. And by the 1990s, there's a shift towards high-budget commercial expeditions, which are often taken by wealthy climbers who outsource much of the heavy lifting to guides and Sherpas.

• 35:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. It's like luxury hiking.

• 35:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And Junko's very critical of luxury hiking, calling them, quote, "intensive care unit climbers."

• 35:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, that's...

• 35:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Because of all the critical support they have along the way. But what troubles her the most is all of the damage caused by the increased foot traffic and trash left behind on Everest, which is a problem that's only gotten worse over the years. Oh, sorry. I thought I was in a quote that whole time, but it was just intensive care unit climbers was just her little quote.

• 35:53Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a barbed thing to say.

• 35:55Karen Kilgariff?

  But it's true. It's like you're creating, you're not trained. You're not serious about it, truly. And then when you get up there, they have to helicopter you out.

• 36:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 36:04Karen Kilgariff?

  That's what happened when I went skiing for the first time. So to do what she can to protect her beloved mountains, Junko not only studies the impacts of trash on mountain landscapes, but she also starts organizing cleanup trips, both in Japan and abroad.

• 36:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 36:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Her husband and children often join her on these trips, and along the way, she never stops uplifting other women. By 2005, Junko has participated in 44 all-female climbs.

• 36:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit.

• 36:30Karen Kilgariff?

  But really, she's interested in cultivating young mountaineers. So she starts leading yearly expeditions to Mount Fuji with Japanese high schoolers, and she climbs with them every year, even after she's diagnosed with stomach cancer in 2012.

• 36:45Georgia Hardstark?

  2012, wow.

• 36:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. So even as Junko battles cancer, she continues taking trips to Mount Fuji. But in 2016, for the first time, she has to stop halfway up the climb.

• 36:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Mmm.

• 36:58Karen Kilgariff?

  And she passes away a few months later, in October, at the age of 77.

• 37:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:04Karen Kilgariff?

  So she basically started climbing mountains as a child and never stopped.

• 37:08Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so inspiring.

• 37:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. Today, Junko Tabei is remembered for her endless courage, relentless environmental advocacy, and dedication to uplifting fellow adventurers, especially women, and of course, the many climbs she completed. Throughout her amazing life, she summited at least 70 mountains across the globe. And in doing so, she proved wrong those who doubted her and helped change the pervasive image of what a mountaineer looks like. Shortly before Junko's death in 2017, she was asked what she would say to her younger self if she had the opportunity. She responded with advice that we could all stand to hear. Junko said, quote, "Do not give up. Keep on your quest."

• 37:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 37:50Karen Kilgariff?

  And that's the story of trailblazing Japanese mountaineer Junko Tabei.

• 37:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Holy shit. Man, maybe I'll start hiking again.

• 38:02Karen Kilgariff?

  You could just do flat, flat hikes.

• 38:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 38:04Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, to start.

• 38:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Is that still a hike or is that just walking?

• 38:07Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, I think it's, you can use whatever word you want.

• 38:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 38:10Karen Kilgariff?

  They can't prove it wasn't a hike.

• 38:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. There's a slight incline.

• 38:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it still counts. Also, the thing I really like and the message of this, Junko's message, but then like the way she lived her life. I was, of course, watching this TikTok this morning where they're like, how do we dismantle the patriarchy? How would women do that? And it's just this idea of like, you don't stay quiet. You don't fall prey to these cultural restrictions or norms of women are like this or women are supposed to do this. You make your own money. You make your own business. You don't give up, even when things are hard or even when people say shit about you. It's like, you just keep going and you just keep doing the thing you want to do and let them talk.

• 38:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Like, you don't have to debate them at all. You don't have to argue with them online. You don't have to like engage. Just keep doing what you're doing.

• 39:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Because doing it is the example for the next generation. You, we have to show women, young women, what's possible and then they can do it. Then everyone's just doing it for each other.

• 39:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Podcasting. That's our, that's what we're showing them.

• 39:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Podcasting? Podcasting is the same as mountaineering. This is stolen valor.

• 39:21Georgia Hardstark?

  We're showing young ladies.

• 39:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and I'm proud of it.

• 39:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, I am too. Well, that's a solo story.

• 39:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Great job. That was definitely one for the books.

• 39:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 39:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you guys so much for listening.

• 39:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Do not give up.

• 39:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Nope.

• 39:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Keep on your quest.

• 39:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 39:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 39:39Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 39:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 39:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 39:50Georgia Hardstark?

  This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto. This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci. Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin. Email your hometowns to [email protected]. And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder. Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye.

• 40:26Speaker 06

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• 40:54Speaker 00

  4imprint, for certain.

• 40:56Georgia Hardstark?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium. Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray. Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest. If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine. Generously spritz each foot before bed, and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this, and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything. Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works. Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.

• 41:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.

• 41:34Georgia Hardstark?

  With CheapCaribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.

• 41:40Karen Kilgariff?

  You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder.

• 41:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to budget beach bliss at your fingertips.

• 41:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to CheapCaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.

• 41:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 41:55Speaker 02

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