Pod Insights Masters in Business At The Money: Building A Car Collection About this episode Are you passionate about cars? Have you imagined collecting, rebuilding or showing them? Classic cars have been appreciating rapidly and if my emails or anything to go by, quite a few of you have caught the fever.
Hannah Elliot is the super car reviewer for Bloomberg, and has been covering the auto industry and exploring car culture for over 15 years. She also drives a 1975 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow.
Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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1:49 Barry Ritholtz? Are you passionate about cars? Are you interested in collecting, rebuilding, racing, or showing them? Have you ever considered having more cars than you could reasonably drive in a given week or month? Classic cars have been appreciating rapidly. And if my emails are anything to go by, quite a few of you have caught the fever. If you've ever wondered what it's like to build and own a car collection, well, then I have the perfect guest for you. Hannah Elliot is the Supercar reviewer for Bloomberg. She's been covering cars, the auto industry, and exploring car culture for over 15 years.
2:30 Barry Ritholtz? She also drives a 1975 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. So Hannah, let's start broadly. How does a person who's passionate about cars find themselves with a collection? Is this an ill-advised idea?
2:47 Speaker 05 That's a great question. I think the quick answer is no, it's not an ill-advised idea. If you like cars and you want to have joy in your life, buy an old car, buy a vintage car. It's fun. Now, if you are hoping to, that this is going to bring you a lot of money a long time down the road, probably not the best investment class. But there are a lot of other values that you get from owning old cars that aren't just about the money.
3:18 Barry Ritholtz? So, so since you brought up the money, what separates a passion project from an asset class? For the average car guy or car gal, is this a hobby or is this an investment?
3:30 Speaker 05 For the average person, this is a hobby, for sure. There are a lot of expenses associated with owning old cars on top of the initial purchase price that you know. Of course, you've got to think about storage. You've got to think about insurance. You've got to think about maintenance, repairs, gas, obviously. There are lots of things that are going to come up. I think it's important to think of it as a relationship. This is a give and take thing. There may be a little bit of dysfunction. It's not just going to be, you know, right off into the sunset and you pay upfront and you never pay again. For most people, yes, it's a hobby. It costs money, but you have a lot of fun.
4:08 Barry Ritholtz? So where does one begin? Do you go with the models that excite you? Or do you try and pick those cars that they can appreciate over time?
4:16 Speaker 05 For somebody just getting involved in owning old cars, I would really strongly recommend you Buy things that you genuinely like, buy things that genuinely excite you. Sometimes if you're really lucky, maybe those things will retain their value. Maybe they will even gain value over years if you hold something for a long time. But here's the thing, if you buy something that you really like, even if it loses a bit of value over the years, you still get the value of owning something that you genuinely like. Whereas if you buy something simply because you think it might gain value, if it loses value, you're kind of out because you didn't necessarily like it and you didn't make a lot of money on it. So it's kind of a lose lose.
4:58 Speaker 05 At least if you buy something you like, you know you will enjoy it. And if you make a little money on top too, even better.
5:05 Barry Ritholtz? Let's talk budgets. What do you need to become a hobbyist? And what are some of the costs that you should budget going forward?
5:12 Speaker 05 Okay, I would like to say there is a vintage car for every price point. You can buy an old Porsche. Now, I'm not going to say an air cooled 911, but you can buy an old Porsche from a swap meet in Pomona, California for eight grand, 10 grand. It's going to need some work, but you know, I buy old Rolls Royces. I have bought them for 10 grand. Now that maintenance costs a little bit more on that and we can talk about that. But I just want to illustrate there is an entry price point for every budget, of course. And I would say, I don't think there's necessarily a correlation
5:54 Speaker 05 between spending a lot of money and having a lot more fun on a car that's perfect and spending less money and you're going to have less fun and the car's going to need a lot of work. There's not necessarily a correlation. You can spend a lot of money on something and it's not great to drive and it requires a lot more maintenance. Obviously registering a car is a one time thing. Insuring a car, there are many vintage cars insurers like Hagerty, for instance, that have pretty great insurance policies. And you can even get less expensive insurance policies on classics if you don't, because you don't drive them as much, because they're not daily drivers. So it's worth going with a insurance provider that specializes in classic cars that will charge you less.
6:37 Barry Ritholtz? When people used to ask me for suggestions for a fun car to start with, I used to say, "Hey, check out the Honda S2000, convertible, stick shift, ton of fun." But those have been appreciating. So now the answer I give people is, "Find a well-sorted-out Mazda Miata, also with a convertible, a stick shift, so much fun for so little money, and you could go from there if you want."
7:03 Speaker 05 You know what? As you said Mazda Miata, I was typing Mazda Miata. So we are completely tracking. You're so right. It's such a fun car. Parts are readily available. It's very predictable. You know, it's not going to need a lot of maintenance. You can get a manual. And I'm looking right now on Hagerty's price values. You can get one in driving condition for $8,100.
7:28 Barry Ritholtz? That's amazing. You get a nice one for $10,000, $12,000. They're very reliable. They're very tossable. It's just a beautifully balanced car, and they have some history. That's the car that sort of brought back the resurgence in convertibles. So the other question I wanted to ask is, "How important is it to have a theme or a focus for your interest or collection?" And I ask that knowing your husband specifically collects air-cooled 911s from the 60s and 70s. Some people have a broad assortment, like Jay Leno. But for the average person thinking about adding a car or two, where do they go?
8:09 Speaker 05 You know, it's nice to have a theme or a focus because it creates efficiencies. For instance, if you have a great mechanic who works on your Mercedes, he'll be able to take on more Mercedes vehicles. Whereas if you bring him something else, a Miata for instance, there may not be as much overlap. It's kind of nice to have a specialist. You know, I've also got a 77 C3 Corvette. You know, that car goes to one guy, the Rolls Royces go to another guy, the Porsches go to another guy. So when you do have a theme, it creates more efficiencies. You can send them all to the same person to work on them. You can swap parts. That's also a nice efficiency.
8:52 Speaker 05 Also, you can get involved more deeply in the local culture of whatever that make is, which is really fun, because when you start talking to other people who own similar makes, or even if you're just going to say all British cars, or all, you know, Alfa Romeos, for instance. You kind of, it's fun to get involved in a culture that focuses on that thing. You talk to old timers who have a wealth of knowledge, who can give you tips. You start to learn who the trusted mechanics are. It just makes it easier. So I do really like the idea of having a particular theme to it.
9:29 Barry Ritholtz? So you mentioned earlier the local car community or the enthusiast community. How important is it to get involved with your local BMW or Miata or Porsche club in your neighborhood?
9:42 Speaker 05 It's important. I think it's a nice value added thing to get involved with other like minded enthusiasts in your era. I think area. I think, you know, that is, some of those clubs can be really picky. Of course, I'm thinking of Rolls Royce people. You know, I sort of deliberately avoid some of the Rolls Royce clubs in in Los Angeles, because those guys are, they know their stuff, which is great and not great. I don't drive mint condition cars, so you know, they certainly are friendly, but they also can tell me everything that's wrong with the car. So, you know, I tread carefully.
10:19 Barry Ritholtz? That could be useful, right?
10:20 Speaker 05 It's useful, it's useful. The broader answer is, yes, of course, get involved. The more people you have around you, hey, at some point, you're going to break down. You need to phone a friend. And AAA is great, but you know, you just want people around you who are a network, a support network. They'll lead you to, again, the right mechanic, the right place to find a part. Maybe you end up getting a second car in the same theme. They're gonna, they're going to know who wants to trade, who wants, who can. You know, lead you down a path deeper down the rabbit hole of whatever your drug of choice is.
10:53 Barry Ritholtz? And, and you mentioned garages, but there are other options for storing a car. It's not just your own garage. What are some of the other storage options?
11:01 Speaker 05 Car clubs. Car clubs can be a little bit expensive, but again, it's an investment in the hobby. There are many car clubs. I, I just know Manhattan and LA because that's where I live, but there are some great car clubs, of course, across the South in Arizona. Car clubs are great because again, you pay a price per month for them to store your car. Often they will also maintain the car for you in-house, which is a great benefit. And again, you get exposed to similar people, like-minded enthusiasts who are keeping their cars there. It's all at the end of the day about building this community of people, friends, colleagues, who enjoy what you enjoy.
11:40 Barry Ritholtz? So you mentioned Hagerty and you mentioned Bring a Trailer. What other resources should potential car collectors know about?
11:48 Speaker 05 The third one that comes to mind is K500, which is an index that Simon Kitson runs out of England. Very good on really high-end. Now, this is like an advanced move. K500, you need a membership to subscribe, but again, they have amazing data on values, trends, history. They will have specific pedigrees and lineages of particular cars. This is for the really high-end stuff. But I also look at K500 just as educational. They've got, they cover all of the auctions. They've got analysis. They've got experts. Steve, Steve Wakefield is Simon Kitson's sort of top analyst. Those guys are really great. They're out of England, so I, I recommend it.
12:30 Barry Ritholtz? Ever play with AutoTempest as a website?
12:33 Speaker 05 No, no.
12:33 Barry Ritholtz? So it's just a giant relational database that lets you search for any year or group of years for any marquee and specific car and specific variants. And then you can refine that search for, all right, show me just the convertibles. I want to see just the cars with the sticks. Just show me this color.
12:53 Speaker 05 I like that.
12:53 Barry Ritholtz? And it really allows you to hone in and it pulls in stuff from. Tons and tons of other stuff.
12:59 Speaker 05 Autotempest.
13:00 Barry Ritholtz? Autotempest. So, last question. Let's talk about documentation. How important is it to make sure that you're not only getting clear title, but seeing the service history of any vehicle you're thinking about purchasing?
13:12 Speaker 05 I think it's important. Obviously, you want to make sure you see the title with the seller's name on the title. For some older cars and race cars, a bill of sale is also used. Some cars don't have titles if they're really old, so a bill of sale is used. If you're buying a car from Europe, that can be pretty complicated to confirm, to transfer a bill of sale into like an American-style title. So, you might want to consult a professional about that. The more maintenance records, the better, obviously. The longer ownership span that a car has by a single owner, generally, the better. You don't want a car that's been flipped, you know, every two years, because generally, that car, there's a reason it's
13:53 Speaker 05 being flipped, and it may not have been maintained so lovingly as someone who owned their special baby for 20 years. So, the more records you can have, the better.
14:03 Barry Ritholtz? So, to wrap up, there's a lot of common sense involved in this. You don't need a ton of money. You could start with just something very basic, like a Miata or an old SL. But find the cars you really like, do your homework, get to know your local enthusiast club, or that particular BMW or Porsche club, and learn from the experts how to make a good decision with a car that will bring you pleasure and maybe a little money for as long as you own it. I'm Barry Ritholtz. You're listening to Bloomberg's At the Money.
14:41 Speaker 00 At KKR, we've spent 50 years understanding what matters to our clients and companies. From pioneering private equity to investing across credit, real assets, insurance, and sports, KKR has built the experience to navigate complexity, the judgment to recognize opportunity, and the conviction to create lasting value. Because when people and institutions are counting on us, understanding what matters isn't just important, it's everything. KKR, understanding what matters. Visit kkr.com/whatmatters.
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