An Unfiltered Conversation with BBNo$ | Being Broke, Cashing Out, & Getting Screwed

NetSuite: Take advantage of NetSuite’s Flexible Financing Program: https://www.netsuite.com/ICED ShipStation: Go to https://ShipStation.com/ich for a FREE 60-day trial Oracle: Free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/iced Follow @bbnomoney Here - Enjoy! Add us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jlsselby https://www.instagram.com/gpstephan Official Clips Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBQ24VfikOriqSdKtomh0w For sponsorships or business inquiries reach out to: [email protected] For Podcast Inquiries, please DM @icedcoffeehour on Instagram! Timestamps : 00:00:00 - Intro 00:01:05 - Why BBNO$ has no money 00:04:25 - What do you spend money on? 00:06:23 - BBNO$ is homeless 00:07:58 - Income from 10M Spotify listeners 00:10:50 - Sponsor - Netsuite 00:17:55 - How musicians make money 00:23:12 - What is a sync? 00:24:12 - Pressure to constantly improve 00:25:10 - “Lalala” and knowing it would blow up 00:27:02 - Record company scams 00:29:32 - How record deals work 00:35:01 - Sponsor - Shipstation 00:36:19 - Can you game the music industry? 00:37:39 - Big artists don’t write their own music? 00:39:00 - Formula for a hit song 00:40:08 - AI in music industry 00:41:46 - Bad follow-up albums 00:45:42 - Musicians ahead of trends 00:49:00 - What do you get for free? 00:51:49 - Day in the life of a musician 00:54:31 - Why concert ticket sales have been bad 00:56:05 - Is your Google net worth accurate? 00:59:06 - How to start a career in music? 01:00:48 - Strategic marketing decisions 01:02:49 - On fame in China 01:06:53 - Sponsor - Oracle 01:08:04 - Getting famous overnight 01:09:44 - How much music do you scrap? 01:12:38 - After “Lalala” went viral 01:14:23 - Lowest career moment 01:15:15 - Dating as a famous musician 01:18:25 - Cultivating the perfect hairline 01:20:18 - Earnings for private gigs? 01:24:31 - Where do you invest your money? *Some of the links and other products that appear on this video are from companies which Graham Stephan will earn an affiliate commission or referral bonus. Graham Stephan is part of an affiliate network and receives compensation for sending traffic to partner sites. The content in this video is accurate as of the posting date. Some of the offers mentioned may no longer be available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:29Jack Selby?

  You DM'd us and you said, I am the one who has no money.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  Well, it's baby no money.

• 0:34Jack Selby?

  Tell us, how do you have no money?

• 0:41Speaker 02

  I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it. Go make art. I don't think I spent $40,000 on myself in the past four years.

• 0:55Jack Selby?

  So what do the finances look like today? Like getting 10 million streams on Spotify?

• 0:59Speaker 02

  The revenue that I was making from streaming royalties and online like plays.

• 1:03Jack Selby?

  What?

• 1:04Speaker 02

  Yeah. So Garfield took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. And I was like out in Japan, like I checked my phone and like boom, $300,000. Just like that.

• 1:12Jack Selby?

  Are you kidding me?

• 1:13Speaker 02

  Garfield?

• 1:16Speaker 02

  I'm aiming to do this like 33 stop tour in Europe and it will net me negative $127,000.

• 1:24Jack Selby?

  So why do it?

• 1:25Speaker 02

  You give your fans an experience in their fans room.

• 1:33Jack Selby?

  You DM'd us and you said, I am the one who has no money.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, it's baby no money.

• 1:39Jack Selby?

  Right.

• 1:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:40Jack Selby?

  Right. So you're the baby that has no money.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:42Jack Selby?

  Tell us, how do you have no money?

• 1:44Speaker 02

  So basically, I grew up in a family that, my dad's an immigrant parent.

• 1:51Speaker 02

  And the financial concept of what we grew up in and like the complex is like you put a house over your head and you feed your family. That's it. It's money is there to be a protective measure. And I think it just really distilled into me. I don't know. I remember in high school, I when all my friends would go out, they'd be like, hey, we're gonna bring some money and like go like party and then eat at McDonald's. I would bring nuts because I knew that they were high in fats. So I wouldn't have to have as bad of a hangover. I wouldn't drink chase because it was too expensive. Like I am the purest form, cheapest human being ever. Like I bought, I bought like a $200 pair of jeans and all my friends were like, dude, what the is wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know.

• 2:34Speaker 02

  I still fly econ like I just can't spend money. I have like a weird psychological like affix or suffix. I don't even know of like just the inability to spend money.

• 2:47Graham Stephan?

  I'm the exact same way. I know it doesn't, it doesn't seem like that, but everything I buy is designed around making money. Everything. So if I can't make money from it or get it at a good enough deal, like I was talking to Jack about there's a car. I don't really want the car, but I'm like, hey, if I get this car at this price, I can't say no to it. Then I have to do it because it's worth so much more and I'm not gonna lose money. I see every purchase like that, everything.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  I don't know what it is. I don't know if the, you know, sometimes I'm like, I should just fly first class because it's literally going to kill my body. And time is the most valuable asset. So, you know, you gotta weigh out the options, but it's like, sometimes I just don't know why I have this block. And I see my brother, for instance, and he, he lives in Copenhagen and every, I feel like perspective, uh, like a living perspective in, in Europe is like you work to live. Whereas in America, you live to work. And he's all, he's always pressed me on it. He's like, dude, go buy me beers. You, you gotta go buy me beers. And I'm like, dude, I don't know. I feel weird doing that. Like, like if I'm like, if I'm not getting something out of it, like it should be 50 50 or something like that. You know what I mean? I don't know what it is.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  I, I've been like talking to my therapist about this shit too. And it's, it's been like an interesting, uh, Dynamic that I've had to find with like every single person that I like work with like, you know, uh, I hired up basically a bunch of my friends because why not just hire your friends and be closer with people that you love. And it's like weird because then you have like this power dynamic with with financials. And then it's like, I'm just like, I usually just call my friends. I'm like, all right, how much money do you want? Just tell me and I'll just give it to you. I don't really care. And it but it's it's weird because when it comes to a financial perspective with with my job, I can turn around and be like, here's $40,000 for a music video. Let's go blow it like, go make art. And then $40,000, I don't think I spent $40,000 on myself in the past four years.

• 4:41Speaker 02

  Like I just, I I don't know what it is.

• 4:43Jack Selby?

  Is there anything that you've started to splurge on? Because I think it's pretty safe to say that you have money now. I mean, with 10 million Spotify monthly listeners, I don't know what you're doing on Apple or YouTube or all of that stuff. You have to have money now. Is there anything that you're finally allowing yourself to splurge on?

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Uh, nice food. That's it.

• 4:59Jack Selby?

  So like, what is nice food to you?

• 5:00Speaker 02

  Oh, like I'll go for like triple Michelin, double Michelin.

• 5:03Jack Selby?

  Oh, that's actually really, okay, Graham's not there yet.

• 5:05Speaker 02

  Really nice food.

• 5:06Jack Selby?

  Wow.

• 5:07Speaker 02

  There's something the that, you know, like sharing like really, really nice sushi with people when you know all the experience is the exact same flavor profiling in your mouth all at once. There's something to it. I don't know what it is. And it's like sitting down with like 80 of your friends and being like, all right, we just spent like 500, 600 dollars a person.

• 5:24Jack Selby?

  Holy crap.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  And we're just like looking at like this small little cracker on a plate and you get like 30 or 40 different plates and you're just like, whoa.

• 5:32Jack Selby?

  I get zero enjoyment from that.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Really?

• 5:34Jack Selby?

  Very little. He's anxious about the price. Yeah. He can't enjoy himself if he knows he's spending a lot of money. Yeah, exactly.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  See, I get that. I definitely get that. But food, I don't know. It it broke through. I I don't know. Maybe I've done too many hoes.

• 5:48Jack Selby?

  We gotta, we gotta take you down a notch and show you at like all you could eat sushi. All you can eat sushi here in Vegas. $30. All you could eat sushi or there's a pokey spot. It's really, really, really good. Like $17 that to me is like better than the really expensive meals that I've eaten.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  It's not like, like, don't get me wrong. If there's a good $1 taco, call me crazy. Like, it's probably going to be better than like a $50. sixty dollar burger someplace or somewhere else. You know what I mean? I totally think that there there's that. But I I don't know, for some weird reason, like just going out with a bunch of friends and really splurging on some like a meal is like. I earned this and it that's the feeling I get at least. But I will totally appreciate like I still love McDonald's like. You know, when you go to McDonald's, you get a Mcgangbang. I don't know if you. Yes. Dude, Mcgagbang. Chicken and McDouble. Yeah. Yeah, put them together. So bustin'. Yeah. And I like I grew up on that. So it's like when I go back and I'm like, oh, you know what, guys? Let's feel terrible for the rest of the day. And you put them a game together and you're just like, wow, this is disgusting. We should go get one.

• 6:49Graham Stephan?

  I'd I'd be down. But you were mentioning too, that was surprising that like technically you're kind of homeless, like you don't have a place anymore.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm like a I'm like a nomad. It kind of sucks. I don't know. I don't really have like another perspective. Like basically I live with my parents in Vancouver if I were to be home. One, it's because uh whenever I was home anyway, I I owned the apartment downtown Vancouver and I was just like. I couldn't I could stay here or I could just be with my parents for like four days and the only time that I'm in Vancouver. So I just decided to sell it because I was like, there's no point of owning this and sold it. Actually made I made twenty five thousand dollars on it after after years after like this is after everything like paying for a new roof like all like the fees and everything. So I ended up making some money on it. It was just sick.

• 7:33Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  I was like, dude. Before, you know, before I was thirty, I already sold the apartment. That's great. Um, you know, great accomplishment. So basically I live with my parents. And I rent kind of in LA, but I don't really like stay anywhere. It kind of sucks. I don't really know what else to say other than it's just uncomfortable sometimes because I'm like, I would love to have. The longest I've ever stayed in a place in the past four years was like two months. So. I don't really have any like regularity. Or like a like a schedule for.

• 8:03Graham Stephan?

  So it's like hotels all the time?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Hotels, Airbnbs, like other people's couches.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  Just like, just living. It's weird, but it's also like, everyone's always like, how do you only travel with a carry on? I'm like, well, I don't, I spend a lot of time in airports. I don't want to spend an hour like waiting for a bag and or potentially being way longer than an hour. So it's like, you know, time, time is money, right? So.

• 8:27Graham Stephan?

  So what do the finances look like today? Like getting 10 million streams on Spotify? Like, could you break us down? Like, we know nothing about this sort of industry.

• 8:35Jack Selby?

  We can also guess.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Okay, guess, guess, guess.

• 8:37Jack Selby?

  Like, how much 10 million monthly listeners? So your Spotify check only. I'm gonna say, what do you think, Graham? I'm gonna say per month with 10 million monthly listeners, 175,000 bucks a month.

• 8:48Graham Stephan?

  No, dude, I'm gonna guess like $500 a month from Spotify.

• 8:52Jack Selby?

  What?

• 8:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 02

  Ah, okay.

• 8:55Graham Stephan?

  10 million streams.

• 8:57Speaker 02

  There's so many very.

• 8:58Jack Selby?

  10 million monthly listeners.

• 9:00Speaker 02

  So monthly listeners, it's interesting because it's a very deceiving statistic or analytic, because it actually doesn't matter. Like, it literally doesn't mean anything.

• 9:10Graham Stephan?

  Right.

• 9:10Speaker 02

  Because it's like, for instance, The Weeknd, biggest artist in the world off streaming revenue, off this, off that, you know, he's the most streamed artist. This, the, so a monthly listener is someone who comes back and listens to a song twice within a month. So basically.

• 9:25Graham Stephan?

  I had no idea.

• 9:26Speaker 02

  So basically what that means is you can have a lot of monthly listeners, but not a bunch of daily streams. Whereas like, uh, this collective or these, these two dudes called S-Boys, they have about, I think, 14, 15 million monthly listeners, but they have like 10 million streams a day. I have 10 million monthly listeners and about 1.8 to 2 million streams a day. So it, it really only matters with the amount of actual consumption, rather than the, the fan listening more than. So the, the, their fans are listening like five times, six times, whereas my fans are listening like once.

• 10:00Jack Selby?

  And how can you figure out that statistic? Or is that only like in the dashboard?

• 10:04Speaker 02

  It's in the dashboard.

• 10:05Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  So, so basically like every million streams is about 3, $3,800.

• 10:11Speaker 02

  So if I was streaming about forty, I think I stream about forty-eight to forty-nine million streams a month on average. So it's like about fifty. So, so a hundred, it would be about a hundred fifty thousand. But I don't, I don't own all the royalties. Some songs that are doing really well, for instance, one of my songs, one of my biggest songs ever, La La La, I sold that song when it was like taking off and I only own twenty-five percent of it from a label. Also, labels, there's so many smoke and screens, like there's so many extra hidden fees, like it's for sure. Like every distribution is like, they're, they're scraping and every single company will do this. Typically, I would say on an

• 10:54Speaker 02

  average song, I end up having about, on average, like sixty percent from my whole catalog of the royalties on the master side. So I would be making about like twenty-seven hundred dollars out of these thirty-eight hundred dollars per million. So I make about like five to six K kind of flat a day approximately.

• 11:20Graham Stephan?

  Now, all of this reminds me that the future of business is really uncertain because if you ask nine different experts, you're gonna get ten different answers from a bull market to bear market. Stocks go up, they go down. It's really confusing and it would be very helpful to have a crystal ball.

• 11:33Jack Selby?

  But until that happens, over forty thousand businesses have already future-proofed their business with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one fluid platform. Plus, with just one unified business management suite, there is just one source of truth, giving you all of the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. And with real-time insights and forecasting, you're peering into the future with actionable data.

• 11:57Graham Stephan?

  When you're able to close the books in days and not weeks, you're spending less time looking backwards and more time looking for what's next. So whether you're earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. And speaking of opportunity, right now you could download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com/iced. Again, netsuite.com/iced with the link down below in the description, netsuite.com/iced. Thank you so much, NetSuite, for sponsoring this episode. And now, back to the podcast.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 13:00Speaker 02

  I make about like five to six K kind of flat a day approximately.

• 13:06Graham Stephan?

  All right, you're closer. I'm way off.

• 13:07Jack Selby?

  Five hundred dollars a month? That is an abysmal guess. That is, that is.

• 13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, five hundred dollars. I was like, damn.

• 13:14Jack Selby?

  Yeah, that's.

• 13:15Speaker 02

  You're way off, bro.

• 13:16Jack Selby?

  He has a little bit of money.

• 13:17Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 13:18Jack Selby?

  Clearly.

• 13:18Graham Stephan?

  I, I had it in my notes here. A million streams is $33.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  That's crazy. Well, a million streams, a million streams on YouTube on like, on like streaming of a song is way, way lower. The CPM on YouTube is like kaput. It's garbage.

• 13:31Graham Stephan?

  Interesting.

• 13:32Speaker 02

  And it really also depends on where it's being streamed. So for instance, like India, a Spotify subscription is.

• 13:38Jack Selby?

  Oh, true.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  It's like 30 cents in India. So every stream from India would be way less worth. Whereas like in America, it's like $15 a month or some, I don't know. I don't, I don't even listen to music really. I don't, I don't, I don't even have a Spotify account. Sorry.

• 13:53Jack Selby?

  Are you kidding me?

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't. I like legit have yet to use it.

• 13:56Jack Selby?

  Well, how do you listen to music?

• 13:58Speaker 02

  I don't really listen to music.

• 14:00Jack Selby?

  What, what do you listen to?

• 14:02Speaker 02

  I actually don't really listen to music, just full song.

• 14:04Jack Selby?

  What about like a podcast or like?

• 14:06Speaker 02

  I just kind of like chilling because my life is always music. It's always thinking about like, whenever I listen to songs, I like, it's kind of like finance. It's like when someone talks about finance, it's like that's on your mind. And when, when I hear songs, I'm like, why is this song big? I need to like analyze the song. Whereas like, I can't even listen to it anymore. Obviously some songs I'll, oh, come on. I'm like, whoa, this is really good. This is super catchy. I like this, this like, the synthetic sound here is really nice. Like it's so well mixed. But I don't really like consume it as I used to. And I think that's just like a product of my environment.

• 14:41Graham Stephan?

  It's like a job, kind of when you're listening to music.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I mean, it's also, it also distills feeling for sure. Uh, but it's, it's definitely less than it used to. Um, where was I? So going back to the money thing. So on YouTube, a million typically equates to about $700. So let's say you do a million on every single platform. You're gonna be looking at like, what's a million on like all the other ancillaries? Probably another like $2,000. So you have like 3,800, 2,800. And then if you do a million on all of these streaming platforms, so like, let's say you have like 5 million total streams. On the publishing side, this is where it gets really complicated.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Publishing has mechanical royalties and mechanical royalties, what that is, is like, it's a royalty that I'm also not the most educated on this. Like people literally have their whole lives collecting mechanical royalties for like publishing companies. It's ridiculous, but basically it's like on these streaming platforms, they have these uh, performance royalties that go out to all these publishing companies of songwriters. So if there is three people in the room and we write this song, it's kind of, it's called Nashville. Basically what it is, is you split it three ways. So we compose the song together, so 33, 33, and I will just typically take 34 because it's just easier to split it up that way, obviously.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Um, so that 800 would be split 33, 33, 33. Uh, and that's just the mechanical. And then you have like sync royalties, you have like, if someone uses it in the movie, you have like extra royalties coming in. There is like so many un- unspoken nuances and like small little revenue generators in music that is like, it would blow your mind.

• 16:32Graham Stephan?

  It just depends on where it's played. Played in a TV show pays this, played in a movie, it pays this, and they all have different splits.

• 16:38Speaker 02

  So Garfield took one of my songs and used it as their trailer. And I was like out in Japan, like sitting in a, in a beautiful forest. I was like, man, I love Japan. And I checked my phone, I was like, boom, $300,000, just like that.

• 16:52Graham Stephan?

  Are you kidding me?

• 16:53Speaker 02

  And I was like, ah, Garfield, I [__] with you.

• 16:56Graham Stephan?

  Did they, did you know that was coming?

• 16:58Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no. So it's just like, it's just like, basically they reach out and they're like, We want to pay for this, but the thing is I own 21% of that song. On both sides. So 21% of 300,000 is, what is that, like 67,000? So $67,000, but I didn't do really anything. I just made the song and luckily the song became a hit. But you see how like all these extra streams and revenue just keep on coming in. Too Hot to Handle has used my songs all the time and like Love is Blind used my songs and then they pay royalties. They pay out like a licensing fee. So you get like $5,000 just like that randomly. Boom.

• 17:37Graham Stephan?

  And you have agents that just negotiate this completely detached from you. You don't even know they're doing that. And then just randomly on a day you'll just get like a check from.

• 17:45Speaker 02

  Mondays and Tuesdays, I'm like, come on, come on, come on. And then I'll just get an email or like a text from, from like my publisher, like A and R guy. And he's like, hey, we got a big one. And I'm like, movie. Let's go out for dinner, boys. And that's kind of it. It's sick. And that's just like one concept. That's like one small little avenue. And it's interesting and really, really cool too, because people make careers just out of that. Where they're like, I'm a sync writer, so I will make songs. There will be like a sync pitch and be like, hey, we have like an action movie with Dwayne The Rock Johnson. And we need Bing Bang Boom Boom type music. So people will be like a composer will be there. All right, let's try it. So who goes in the studio and makes like a, a song that sounds like what they want.

• 18:28Speaker 02

  And then you might get it and you might not, and they'll do it a buy, full buyout of like a hundred thousand dollars. And like people have full lives like that. And it's like such a small little factor of what music is. And it's like, you can compose this, compose that for ads and it, it's, it's actually really cool. Once you like see how the, the, the, the backside of the music industry is, it's like really, really enjoyable. There's so many, so many avenues that you can create revenue from.

• 18:56Graham Stephan?

  So why does it seem like a lot of musicians say it's a horrible industry to be in? And it seems like just like the top 0.1% is reaping like almost all the revenue.

• 19:05Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, okay. So on a touring perspective, it's a nightmare. So the AAA artists.

• 19:13Speaker 02

  They clean up like that's, you know, like Beyonce's out here doing like a hundred million dollars in a tour every year. Like Olivia Rodrigo was the highest grossing artist of our decade.

• 19:21Jack Selby?

  More than Taylor Swift.

• 19:22Speaker 02

  Well, a new artist, like a new generation artist. It was a hundred and ninety million dollars on her last tour. And basically, I was just telling you about this Subtronics guy. Basically, like if you don't get to five thousand capacity shows, which I'm gonna be honest. I've been grinding my ass off for the eight, eight, nine years. It's hard like you need a ton of hits, like a string of hits or like crazy controversy, like crazy this, crazy that. And you just gotta be on the ball 24/7 and like really cultivate that fan base. If you don't do that and you tour at like a two thousand to three thousand capacity like tour and you wanna bring production and try to make it a cool experience for your fans, you are always in the red.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  I'm, I'm aiming to do this like thirty three stop tour in Europe. And it will net me negative a hundred and twenty seven thousand dollars.

• 20:16Jack Selby?

  So why do it?

• 20:18Speaker 02

  Because you give your fans an experience and they're fans forever. And that's it. And like, the only reason why I'm able to do this anyway is because of them. It's, it's really just a pat on the back. And like, sometimes I'm like volunteering, it's exhausting and you're like.

• 20:40Jack Selby?

  Volunteering.

• 20:41Speaker 02

  Volunteering. Uh, and I've done it, I've done it for so long, like I, this, just this year, like I'm selling, I'm on track. I just listed a tour recently, like a, like a week ago and we sold out Toronto, probably the fastest I've ever sold out a show ever. And I felt like, I was like, whoa, this is, things are on the up, this is great. Uh, and I'm on track to make like probably forty thousand, fifty thousand dollars on a tour that's gonna gross like a million. But there's just so many expenses. So it's just like a really, really interesting dynamic when you, when you see in the backend, you're like.

• 21:15Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, my understanding is that they'll pay you like a big amount for one night, but then it's up to you to then pay out like lighting and security and like, you know, all the miscellaneous stuff with that.

• 21:24Speaker 02

  So there's something called a guarantee. Typically, that's like how most people take it. You can do like dollar one deals at the door where it's like you basically rent the venue and you just take all the risk. Whereas a guarantee is like, I guarantee you $25,000 in your pocket and then you you budget the tour off of that. So you can have like a bus, so it's a little healthier for you because you can go to bed and then you bring lighting, lasers, you try to make an experience or as cool as an experience as possible. My main goal is to try to make like a musical out of my music for the next tour. So my fans are just gonna be like, oh, he really tried. Because the bar is really low in rap music, to be real. But I don't know, like, sometimes I get frustrated because I'm like, I don't really want to tour

• 22:09Speaker 02

  and not make any money anymore. Like, I've been doing it for like eight years, basically. So I'm just, yeah, I'm kind of tired of that. But at the same time, it's also like, who the fuck gets these experiences? And it's like, it really is as cliche and corny as it may sound. When I'm on stage and I see that many people just smiling and like giggling, I'm like, wow, that's crazy. Like, I can actually distill happiness in people and I have the ability to, I always wanted to be a doctor. I went to school for kinesiology before I did music and I just wanted to help people. And the ability that I have to to reach people and like actually emotionally touch them in a way where my music is, I can say pee wee poo poo on stage and people are like, yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 02

  And, uh, you know, I think they just get me in a deeper level and they just want to be there to have fun and, you know, have an experience and kind of like forget what is now for them and be in the moment. Dude is a blessing. So if I have the ability to do that. Lose some money at the same time, but like harness and be able to like nurture my fanbase. Like that's, that's the main goal here. So.

• 23:17Jack Selby?

  I think that's super, super nice of you and also like aware of you to be able to take the hit, to be able to provide for the people that provide for you.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally.

• 23:25Jack Selby?

  And on top of that, I just gotta say like, I wasn't expecting you to be so upfront about all the numbers and everything. And to be honest, like as YouTubers, we're very familiar with like how much YouTubers make or how much streamers make or that whole sphere.

• 23:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:37Jack Selby?

  But we have no idea how much like musicians make, because it's not talked about. And so I appreciate your transparency when it comes to like musicians' numbers. Cause a lot of people, I'm sure like basically all the viewers right now have no idea or completely surprised you could get a check just for, you know, from Garfield like that on a random Monday morning.

• 23:54Speaker 02

  Well, that, I mean, like, yeah, that, so Etamame was one of my songs.

• 23:57Jack Selby?

  I like that song.

• 23:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that song has balls hanging low. Yeah.

• 24:00Jack Selby?

  Really good.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  So that song was like the number three or fourth biggest sync song like in 2022, 2023. So that means I basically, I was like waking up every other week with like a sync. It wasn't as.

• 24:14Jack Selby?

  What is sync?

• 24:15Speaker 02

  So synchronization. So basically you, you, it's like Garfield is like, oh, we need a trailer audio. Boom. Sync Etamame. Bing, bing. And he's just like driving or something. I don't know. If it's like, if it makes sense, he'll sync the, the, the sound team on their, on Garfield or Pixar or wherever it is. We'll be like, this is the budget we have and hit up uh Sony ATV, like Sony, my publishing company and be like, we want this song in this trailer. That's it. So I would just wake up some days with people using my music or like uh, one time we got a sync with Carmax for one of my songs called Bad to the Bone. And it was like a llama, just like head out the window, just looking at the camera.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  And it was like, yeah, I'm bad to the bone, basically. And they just used that portion of the song. And I was like, all right, cool. And Carmax paid me and Taco Bell's paid me, like Mountain Dew's paid me. It's like kinda sick. Yeah. It's really dope.

• 25:13Jack Selby?

  Do you ever find it intimidating that like you have to keep topping yourself? Like you have a good song and now it's like, what's, okay, how can I make something better than what I just made?

• 25:20Speaker 02

  So I was really struggling with that in the beginning of COVID. Uh, I had La La La and that song was stratospheric. Obviously did not expect that song to get that big. Um, you know, that was like right in the beginning of Tik Tok and it it's almost at a billion streams now. And just one of those experiences where I was like, oh, this really happened. Like, I remember I was sitting in my bedroom. I just like started crying. I was like, dude, my phone is blowing the up right now. Like, this is crazy. Like, this is real. And my mom like walks in with some apples and is like, you good? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. This is right after I graduated university. Like, I crossed, I crossed the stage, went to the hotel. My sister was like, yo, why are you not coming to lunch with us?

• 26:03Speaker 02

  Like, you just graduated, like, celebrate with the family. And I was like, no, I gotta drop the song. It's gonna change my life. And then like two days later, it exploded.

• 26:10Jack Selby?

  How did, how did you know that song is gonna be so big? Is it feeling?

• 26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't know. I played it live for a couple of times and like people could recite the hook like immediately. It just banged, like everything, like the mix sounded perfect. I don't know. I remember also I hooked up with a girl the same night I made it. And I showed it to her. I was like, yo, I made this hit. It's a hit. I made a hit. Like, I did it. And she's like, it's cool. And I was like, whatever. And then she called me like after it blew up. She was like, you told me this song was a hit. How did you know? I was like, I don't know. Like, I, I, I actually have no idea. I just told everyone and it just spoke into existence. And it just happened.

• 26:51Jack Selby?

  How much do you think that song grossed? Just in everything, because I imagine, like you said, every other week you were getting syncs. And on top of that, the billion downloads that it's done. Do you get a plaque or anything for a billion?

• 27:03Speaker 02

  Uh, I think Spotify will actually send me a billion plaque. Cause I think there's only like, I think there's only like 1,200 songs in a billion or something like, I don't know. Maybe not even that many. Uh, so, so Etamame was the one that synced. Weirdly, La La La was way bigger of a song, like culturally. Than Edimame was, but it didn't sink at all.

• 27:24Graham Stephan?

  Hmm.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  It's because I feel like this, this, the Edimame, this song is so driving. And it's like, when you wanna buy something, you, you just wanna be like sucked in. And Edimame, I feel, has that punchiness, like really like upbeat, fun happiness. Whereas like La La La is just like more of like a weird meshed pop song that no one really has heard before. So La La La, I don't know how much that song is fully made, to be honest. So when you sign it to a record label, you never really know how much they spend on it. I'm honestly like, I think I'm gonna audit Columbia because.

• 28:00Graham Stephan?

  Walk us through that, like when you sign a record deal, because you hear so many people saying they got ripped off by their record company. Even Limp Bizkit, I think, is suing whoever their, their publisher or record company was. Cause they said like, they made no money from certain songs or like from certain albums.

• 28:14Speaker 02

  I'm still independent, so I, I, I, I own all of my masters. So basically whenever I'm like, wife and kids checking out, I'm gonna be like, alright guys, I'm out. I'll sell my whole catalog for millions of dollars. Ideally, I'm like a Bruce Springsteen, in a couple of years, you know the vibes? He just sold his catalog for like 250 million.

• 28:31Graham Stephan?

  Everyone's doing that.

• 28:31Jack Selby?

  How much did Michael Jackson?

• 28:32Graham Stephan?

  Bieber sold his?

• 28:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's fucked up.

• 28:35Jack Selby?

  Like hundreds of millions.

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Hundreds of millions. It's, it's insanity.

• 28:38Graham Stephan?

  Did Jackson sell his?

• 28:39Jack Selby?

  I think Michael Jackson, I think the Beatles bought Michael Jackson, or no, Michael Jackson bought the Beatles.

• 28:44Graham Stephan?

  Yes.

• 28:45Jack Selby?

  I think.

• 28:46Speaker 02

  That's crazy.

• 28:48Graham Stephan?

  The other, and they were really upset about that deal.

• 28:50Jack Selby?

  Yeah. I don't know, we're gonna put a list of some people that have sold their catalog, the numbers are ridiculous.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's ridiculous, but I mean, it's, it's evergreen. I think the consumption just keeps on going up. I mean, obviously like the OG, OG, OG, OG hits like will always be hits, you know?

• 29:06Graham Stephan?

  That would be cool to be able to buy a song like that, that would be the ultimate flex.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  I'll sell, I'll sell you guys a song.

• 29:11Graham Stephan?

  I own that song.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  Sure. I mean, I have a bunch of songs that don't make any money, cause they're just. But my musical career started basically from just like gamers using my music on YouTube. So I never clicked the content ID like copyright thing. Cause I was like, I want people to use my music. Like I want people. I want to encourage people to use my music. And that was like, kind of like a, like a grounding point for the, the, the basis of building my career. And, uh, yeah, I still to this day, I just went to TwitchCon recently and had a really good time there. And I, I met so many people that I've never fully met before that have used my music in their like intros or outros of their gaming videos and be like, bro, I love you. And I'm like, I love you, man.

• 29:52Graham Stephan?

  It's so, it's so appreciated because I'll tell from my perspective that there have been times where I've used a little clip of just like 10 seconds, like a little background clip. They claim the whole video.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:01Graham Stephan?

  And I have to go back through and like edit that out and it kind of ruins it a little bit. Or videos where I've included like a reaction to something in context and they claim the whole video.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, so I don't own all of my music. La la la, I still have a five year license with Columbia. A lot of my music with my friend Young Gravy is all on Republic. So I don't really have full jurisdiction over what happens there. And I can't really get those claimed because I ended up selling the rights of those songs. But at the same time, like, and all the music that I have on my Spotify that is not capitalized. So it's like all lowercase. That is my music.

• 30:40Graham Stephan?

  So how does a record deal work?

• 30:42Speaker 02

  The misconception is record labels are bad. I don't think they're bad. They just can't work. That doesn't have a flame. There's, it, it's like, it's like if you have a financial advisor and he's like, hey, so we're going to need some money to like make some money. And he's like, and the people are like nah, go make me money with no money. How does that work? It doesn't work. So if you're working an artist that just isn't working and you just up and sign the wrong guy because you thought he could have been the next pop star.

• 31:13Speaker 02

  Then you're gonna get dropped and then the artist is probably gonna get super pressed because we're like, I signed this deal and nobody's helped me out. Like, fuck, brother. I don't know why I brought the UK accent out there, but uh, but you see what I mean? They're basically just a bank. But when a song is ripping and they just wanna roll their keyboard down with $600,000 to market a song.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  I'm all hands off. I don't care. Because when, when La La La blew up really hard, it was doing like 4.8 million streams a day. So that was making like $20,000 a day, just default. I don't know what the they did. I, when I sold it to them, it was doing a million streams a day, but I don't know what they did. They spent $650,000. I don't, we don't, literally just as marketing expense, $650,000. And I'm like, whatever. It helped my career so much that like, I will take the deficit of making money there for a very long time because I can make money in other avenues. So I used to view music as, which made me way more anti-label. I used to view my music as the only revenue generating principle.

• 32:23Speaker 02

  Because in, in university, I was releasing songs. I was like making $4 a day, $8 a day, $16 a day. And I was like, oh, this is like where I'm gonna make all my money. So the revenue that I was making from streaming royalties and online like plays was the only money that I was making and I, that was like basically the only money I made for a very long time. Because as I was saying, like touring, you don't really make money. Until like the past year and a half, I've been profiting on touring. Not nearly as much as some other people may, but uh, it's kinda like leveling out to 50/50 now. So basically now I use the, I use my music as an avenue and a tool and a marketing tool to get people to my shows and to get people to care more about my, my business, basically.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  The issue I had with record labels is I was so afraid of giving up 85 to 90% of all the royalties that I was making. In the offshoot chance that they know actually what to do and how to market your songs. But because the music industry is becoming so democratic because social media and labels are basically being like.

• 33:33Speaker 00

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• 34:03Jack Selby?

  Feet held to the fire a little bit.

• 34:05Speaker 02

  Yeah. And like labels are like cleaning up their whole roster, like just firing, like firing everyone because they don't have the power anymore. It's not monopolized. Like you can't, you can't tell the world that this new song coming out on TikTok is going to be the next big hit. It just doesn't work. Like you need people, the people make the decision and the people make all of the right decisions when it comes to the songs. And like, when you hear songs and it's like a small little snippet and the rest of the song sucks or the rest of the song rocks. It's cool because it's like, that's what the people want. That's what the people want.

• 34:42Speaker 02

  And it's not, yeah, it's not monopolized anymore. And it's, it's actually, it is beautiful, but it also makes it really fucking annoying for an independent artist. Cause you're like, okay, do I want to try to market the song or do I just want to put it out and see if anything happens and wait? And if it doesn't move on to the next one, I don't know.

• 35:00Jack Selby?

  That's interesting. I wonder then how many artists are trying to curate their music to be just that song that's used for like a 10 second clip. I heard you mention in another podcast, the song Million Dollar Baby and how that song, I mean, you couldn't go like three reels on Instagram without hearing it. And that probably completely changed this guy's life. Insane like monthly listeners, like my favorite artist Rex Orange County never, and he's been making music. For such a long time.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  He's fire.

• 35:26Jack Selby?

  Has not hit that amount of monthly listeners. And this guy did it with, I mean, I don't want to say one song, but effectively, to my knowledge, it was like one song.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  So, so yeah, that's, that's the thing is monthly listeners is very deceiving. Because it doesn't actually mean anything. You can have, you can have the biggest song in the world, like cranking, like doing like 15 million streams a day. And nobody will come to your show. Because nobody cares. They just want the song. They don't care about the artist. So that is like, that's, that's where like the turning point is like getting the, the subconscious of, of, of society to be like, oh, I fuck with that person. And it's like, how do you develop a story? And how do you develop a personality that people can attach to that draws them? And draws them in enough to come to the show? Or like buy the merch? Or, or, you know, like do all the other business perspectives?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  That are not just songs. But like, I do totally think that Home Slice is really talented.

• 36:24Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 36:24Speaker 02

  So he's gonna be, he's gonna be here for a really long time. And I'm, I'm happy to have heard his song. I like it a lot.

• 36:32Graham Stephan?

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• 36:50Jack Selby?

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• 37:19Graham Stephan?

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• 37:54Jack Selby?

  I heard there was a clip that I saw it was like a DJ that was talking about it and he said that there's essentially a lever that can be pulled. If you pay enough money, a lever that can be pulled to make a song go viral, but I'm guessing you would say that's not true.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  It's not true.

• 38:08Jack Selby?

  No matter how much money you throw at it.

• 38:10Speaker 02

  Like, okay, I mean, if I was a trillionaire.

• 38:14Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 38:14Speaker 02

  And my like, let's say I was a trillionaire, I had a, I had a son, he was like, I want to be a rapper dad and I was like, I got you. Then yeah, like I'll throw a billion dollars at a fucking song, it's gonna go ape shit. You know what I mean? I'll just pay every single, literally every single YouTuber to use it and it's gonna go up.

• 38:31Jack Selby?

  Or even if it's pay the producers like an obscene amount of money, like the best producers.

• 38:35Speaker 02

  Nah, producer, that, that makes no difference.

• 38:37Jack Selby?

  Really?

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, cuz you can make a song, I could, we can make a song right now that could be the biggest song in the world.

• 38:42Jack Selby?

  We should do it at the end.

• 38:43Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, maybe, uh, I, I just like, it won't be the biggest song in the world cuz I'm not that great fundamentally. Like I'm, I'm fine, I just kind of figured out a loophole. I just figured out what people kind of like and what I'm good at and I just double down on it constantly. And I'm just like, alright, I know exactly the type of music that I would listen to if I were to make it again. And I'll just double down and I'll double down, I'll double down.

• 39:07Graham Stephan?

  What I found really interesting is that a lot of the biggest artists don't even write their own songs. Like they're written by like a Benny Blanco or like, like someone like that where they could, you know, maybe collaborate or just buy a song. What was the guy, the Ibiza?

• 39:21Jack Selby?

  Oh, Mike Posner?

• 39:22Graham Stephan?

  Mike Posner. He was talking about making a song for Bieber and like that was his song and he shows himself playing it.

• 39:28Jack Selby?

  Oh, it was Love Yourself, I, I think it was Love Yourself. He made a song and then Justin, I think, plucked it.

• 39:33Speaker 02

  Uh, the, the super, super sad.

• 39:35Graham Stephan?

  If I was your boyfriend.

• 39:36Jack Selby?

  Oh, was it that?

• 39:37Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, it was that song.

• 39:37Speaker 02

  Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, so songwriting is also another avenue to become successful. I've been hit up to write songs for people for sure. Sure, I just like, don't care. Cause I don't like doing things on spec. Which is like, hey, if you do this, you might get this. And I'm like, I would rather just make a song for myself. Who cares? Like, yes, I'm not the best songwriter in the world. I've met some songwriters and some artists. That I'm like, what the fuck am I doing here? You know what I mean? Like, where you're like, you, I try pretty hard to make music, for sure. You know, I'm like, racking my brain. And I've seen like, Doja Cat make a song. Or just jokingly make a song. And I'm like, dude, this is more fire than my whole catalog. And she just like sits there and wow, wow, wow, wow. And it's like, sick.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  So it's like, there are some people that are just objectively like, super, super talented. And are hitmakers.

• 40:30Graham Stephan?

  Is that something that could be learned? Or do you think you're born with the, the ability to be able to hear songs?

• 40:35Speaker 02

  No, it's definitely a muscle.

• 40:36Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I mean,

• 40:39Speaker 02

  I would say, five years ago, every song I made was like a seven out of 10. Six out of 10. Let's say modestly, or whatever. Now, every song I make is at least an eight out of 10. And that's because of just like, what I know. And it's like, your taste keeps on evolving. Whether or not like, the song will explode. I think your taste keeps on evolving and you just get better because I can take every single aspect of a song, of like, one of my big songs, I can take an aspect of it and be like, what made this song popular? Oh, this part. And it wasn't because it blew up on TikTok. It's just like,

• 41:19Speaker 02

  the feeling it gives you during that moment, when you listen to it, just grab it. Put it on this song. Another song that did well. Grab that, put on the same song. And just basically have a full set of songs. Or a full set of a song of all the good parts of a song, all the good flows, all the good melodies. Just put all back on one song. It'll do well.

• 41:38Graham Stephan?

  Do you ever worry that AI is able to do that at some point in the future and like, create the best song and?

• 41:43Speaker 02

  It kind of frightens me a little bit, but at the same time, like, there's so many imperfections in my music that AI won't make.

• 41:51Speaker 02

  So it makes it less real. I also do think I wholeheartedly believe that like, people will use AI for every other reason other than art. And people will get bored of it. People will get bored if it is just straight up AI art. And it there won't be like a revolt like we need no more AI art. But people will just be like, I'm not that down for this. And I I think that's just gonna be like the general conscious of the society people of of people being like, you know what? I think I'm done with that. We don't need this. Let's just like actually support a real artist.

• 42:25Graham Stephan?

  What if they couldn't tell?

• 42:28Graham Stephan?

  Cause I could see the movie industry like at one point being like, hey, we want to hit song.

• 42:31Jack Selby?

  The movie industry, maybe.

• 42:33Graham Stephan?

  Unless they want something.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  You can tell you can tell the movie industry right now is like getting hit by chat G P D scripts. It's pretty bad. Sometimes I watch movies. I yo, I walked out of the Joker movie.

• 42:45Jack Selby?

  I heard it was like miserable.

• 42:47Speaker 02

  It was abysmal.

• 42:48Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 42:48Speaker 02

  And like, look, art direction, great. Don't get me wrong. Acting incredible. But like, for two and a half hours, nothing happened. And it was just awkward. I was like, I think they just went to the home home slice went way too avant garde on it. And was like, we need to do something even more different. And it just went way left field and it did not resonate, I don't think. I don't know.

• 43:15Jack Selby?

  I see a lot of that like with musicians. I feel like a musician, they make a few albums like when they're starting out, then they make two albums that just blow up. And then they're like, I'm really artsy. I'm gonna try to come up with something that's like super unique and different. And then it's hard for me to actually enjoy that. Like I've seen that. I feel bad saying these names with like Kendrick Lamar, like Good Kid Mad City was incredible.

• 43:38Speaker 02

  Oh, one of the greatest albums ever.

• 43:39Jack Selby?

  Even I hate saying, cause I love, I I in fact, I met him randomly outside of the restaurant that I used to work at Tyler, the Creator.

• 43:45Graham Stephan?

  Oh, he's great.

• 43:46Speaker 02

  He's dropping a new album.

• 43:48Jack Selby?

  He what?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  He's dropping.

• 43:48Jack Selby?

  Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah. Chroma Copia, which actually sounds really good.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  It looks really sick.

• 43:53Jack Selby?

  Is like, I think a masterpiece. It's like a 10 out of 10 album. But I feel like after those blew up, they're like, I need to go a little bit more unique and different and, you know, get all artsy and poetic, which is great. Like I support trying new things, but it always seems like a little bit much. Do you see that?

• 44:10Speaker 02

  I mean, I kind of have it with my music. I mean, like, everyone's always, I want the old Baby No Money. I want the oldest, old Kanye, all this. But. You're developing new fans every single time. And, you know, I just put a, I literally went from like a drum and bass record, a drum and bass adjacent house record with like a top line bass that sounds like everything from the UK to a heartbreak song.

• 44:35Jack Selby?

  Which is fire.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, and it's good. It's a good song. Like, I, I think I really like it. It's, it's really like raw and powerful and emotional. But it's like, it doesn't fucking matter. If you can make a song and you can make any type of song, a decent song, then do it. Like, I, I totally agree though, like sometimes as people like try going way too heady with it. Okay, for instance, so the, the heartbreak song, there's, there's a lot of aspects in that song that I would say I would basically do in a normal rap song anyway. It's like, some of the cadences are just like really upbeat rapping. I get insecure when I'm not, when I leave space on a song. That is something that I just, a lot of producer friends that I work with, they're like, stop rapping so much, the song will do better. And I'm like, nah, it just makes me insecure.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  But it also sucks because I, I kind of set myself up for disaster when I'm performing live. Because it, breath control is really difficult when I'm like ripity rapping like on stage for an hour and a half and I'm saying like poems and poems and poems and lyrics and bars. So that's, that's something that I like struggle with is like leaving space in a song or like trying to be more artistic in that regard, but something I will do across all my music is just fill the song out with lyrics. Because I know I like it and I know my fans like me and if my fans like me, they'll like my songs. And that's, that's it. I'm just putting my personality into my songs and they can resonate with it.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  Rather than just trying to do something completely left field every time, which is cool. It's really, it's experimental, but I just don't think it does anything for me because I know I don't like doing that.

• 46:15Jack Selby?

  I like it when the each album is like adjacent to the other album. It's not the same that you're trying new things and you're experimenting, but it's not completely detached from like the style that cultivated you that audience.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, totally. I've been working on figuring out new voices. Like, a lot of my songs are pretty like monotone. It's like balls hanging out while I pop all of it. And I keep in that tone a lot because I'm probably just insecure about my other voices, but you know, like how Kendrick Lamar on-

• 46:40Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah. How he goes like high pitched, say, "Hi, brother. What's good, brother?" Yeah, he does that.

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Top of the world, yeah.

• 46:45Jack Selby?

  He does a lot of that stuff.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  And that's the reason, if you look at all the really successful rappers, they all have different voices.

• 46:52Jack Selby?

  Hmm.

• 46:53Speaker 02

  Yeet, Eminem, like Drake. Drake's fucking, dude, Drake pulls out a UK accent sometimes and then like a Jamaican accent, bro. It's like-

• 47:03Jack Selby?

  Interesting. Kendrick does a lot of-

• 47:05Speaker 02

  And Kendrick does a ton. And it's, it actually, I didn't realize this until recently, but it really makes a difference, having different voices.

• 47:12Jack Selby?

  Do you have any checks and balances or people that you know that have their fingers like really on the pulse where you show them your music and they're not just like, "Oh yeah, dude, that's fire. That's gonna go bang." Or do you see any artists that you think have just consistently over time, just nailed it every single time? Because I imagine if you're like making music and you're passionate about it and you're like really loving it, like people are just gonna be like, "Oh yeah, that's fire."

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, sometimes I wish I had some more yes men because sometimes I'm like, "Nah, this shit sucks, man." I'm like, uh, so I'm, I'm, I'm set on that. Do I think I make the best music in the world? No. Do I think strike of genius sometimes? I'm like, this song rocks. Yeah, God bless. When I made It Boy, I remember I ordered an Uber. And we, we made this other song and we were working, we, they just started the beat and I was like, "Yo, this beat's fire as fuck." And he was like, "Yo, lay something on it before you get in the Uber." And the Uber was waiting and I, you know, when I text Uber, he's like, "Hey, I'm here." And then I just literally went up to the microphone. The first thing I said was, "I T B O Y B B N O D A L I S A N." Yeah, that's me. Yeah, that's right. And they were, they just both turned, were like, "Yo, that's fire."

• 48:19Speaker 02

  And then they were like, "Okay, what's the next lyric?" And I'm like, "I don't know, Gen Z Eminem." And they were like, that is so fucking stupid. And I'm like, hell yeah, let's run it. I'm not even Gen Z. And then we ran it. And then I sent all my friends the song. And one of my like best buddies, my DJ. I sent it to him. He's like, this is the best hook you've ever written. I promise you this song will blow up. All right? And then I just like, I buckled my feet down, finished the song. And we just, yeah, it did well. So, and it's easily the most turned up song I have live. This song is, I play like a, an orchestral introduction to it.

• 48:51Jack Selby?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 48:52Speaker 02

  And then I'm like, the only reason why you guys are fucking here is to tell your parents that you're fucking a goddamn legend. Like, get your fucking dicks up. And like, I just like scream into the microphone and yell at them. I'm like, get your eyes out. And, uh, yeah, they just lose their mind. It's just, everyone's, literally everyone's jumping.

• 49:06Jack Selby?

  That's crazy.

• 49:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's really cool. So, when, when you make a song like that and you could feel it and it actually invokes a feeling of like, hey, I wanna move or like, hey, this makes me feel sad. That feeling is infectious. I don't know if only musicians can like, see it for the first time, but you know, when you hear a song, you're like, damn, this is fire. I promise you, other people feel the exact same way. And that's probably why a song will be big. Just infectious. I don't really know how to explain it.

• 49:39Jack Selby?

  It's just a feeling.

• 49:39Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. I like Rick Rubin a lot and I listen to his interviews. It's incredible. He has no musical training whatsoever. Doesn't know music theory, nothing. He just has an ear and he's like, if I like it, I have a feeling other people like it too.

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:51Graham Stephan?

  And that's it.

• 49:52Speaker 02

  That, that, that really is it. It's like, and it's kind of like, people are like, oh, what type of food you like? And I'm like, good food. It's the same thing. It's the same concept. It's hmm. Cause maybe, maybe you don't like good food as I like good food per se, but like, I'm not gonna say no to a seventeen dollar poke bowl. Where I know it's gonna be good as fuck.

• 50:11Graham Stephan?

  Yeah. For me with food, by the way, a good analogy is like, you know, how your smell influences the taste of the food?

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:17Graham Stephan?

  For me, it's money. How much does it cost?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:20Graham Stephan?

  That influences the taste of the food. The cheaper it is, the better it tastes.

• 50:23Speaker 02

  The cheaper it is, the cheaper it is, no matter what, or the more, the more free it is.

• 50:27Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 02

  The better it is.

• 50:28Graham Stephan?

  If something's a dollar, it's gonna taste delicious.

• 50:30Speaker 02

  Oh, I love free shit.

• 50:32Jack Selby?

  What kind of free stuff do you get as a musician?

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Kind of like if I read, okay, you know RX bars?

• 50:37Jack Selby?

  Yeah, I love RX.

• 50:38Speaker 02

  Dude.

• 50:38Jack Selby?

  So good.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  So I have DMs with them of me sending voice notes, be like, hey, guys, I'm like a huge fan. Please get back to me. I really want some product and I'll promote you guys. And I promote them and I like literally tell my fans, I'm like, please spam them. I really love an RX bar, like they cold turkey me, but basically I've gone, I think the coolest thing that I've gone for free was a Steam Deck. It's like, it's a

• 51:01Jack Selby?

  Oh.

• 51:02Speaker 02

  It's like a game, it's a Game Boy, basically, from, from the, the company like Valve and Steam. And I've been playing that all the time on planes and stuff. It's super, super nice.

• 51:10Graham Stephan?

  We got Jack in the Box for free.

• 51:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:11Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 02

  Jack in the Box.

• 51:13Graham Stephan?

  Jack in the Box commented on a video because of Jack, Jack's name is like, oh, it's a Jack in the Box.

• 51:17Jack Selby?

  Well, I would talk about it. So we used to have a vlog channel. I would talk about Jack in the Box all the time. I love Jack in the Box. I think it's underrated.

• 51:23Speaker 02

  What's good there?

• 51:24Jack Selby?

  First of all, everything. Second of all, the tacos are amazing.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Really?

• 51:28Jack Selby?

  So I, growing up, like I would definitely, so I had like very little money personally growing up. And so I would go to Jack in the Box. They had two tacos for 99 cents. I would, and I ran across country, so I build up an appetite. I would go spend $4, get eight tacos, feel awful afterwards.

• 51:43Speaker 02

  Terrible.

• 51:44Jack Selby?

  But also just love eating them. They're amazing. The meat is questionable. You don't know where it comes from. They definitely fry the entire taco. It's not healthy, but it is like, it's, it's love. Yeah, they sent us, they sent me a $500 debit card to Jack in the Box. Yeah. And it's like, it's called VIP Jack Cash. I go through the drive through, like hand it over to them and they're like, I have never seen anything like this ever before.

• 52:06Speaker 02

  That is sick.

• 52:07Jack Selby?

  It's been three years and I still have money.

• 52:08Graham Stephan?

  Really?

• 52:09Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 52:09Speaker 02

  I mean, fair enough.

• 52:10Graham Stephan?

  That's cool.

• 52:10Jack Selby?

  Shout out Jack in the Box.

• 52:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, shout out Jack in the Box.

• 52:12Jack Selby?

  So you got the Steam Deck for free. Is there anything else that like huge brands are just like, here, just take it? Like audio equipment, I would imagine.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  No, no, audio equipment is like, it, it stays and lasts forever. So like no one, they're not going to give you anything. Unless I was like AAA, you know what I mean?

• 52:29Speaker 02

  I might, I don't want to jinx it, but I might be getting a Chipotle Black Card.

• 52:35Jack Selby?

  No. Oh my.

• 52:36Graham Stephan?

  Okay, I gotta show you what I just sent Jack. Holy.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  I, I, I don't wanna jinx it. I, I, I, I, I'm like, I, maybe even cut it out. You should literally just bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep.

• 52:46Jack Selby?

  I want this in there because if in the offhand chance, like we talk Chipotle probably every other episode.

• 52:52Speaker 02

  Oh my god.

• 52:54Graham Stephan?

  That's it. It's not, it's not the black card anymore. It's the wood card.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  That's fire.

• 52:58Jack Selby?

  We talk about Chipotle nearly every other episode. We shout them out. I spend sixteen dollars there basically every single day. Chipotle, if you're watching this, I love you.

• 53:06Speaker 02

  Chipotle's fire.

• 53:08Jack Selby?

  All three of us will always talk about you. Trust me, you know, I hope that people listen to this and go buy Chipotle. I recommend it. It's healthy.

• 53:14Graham Stephan?

  So good.

• 53:14Jack Selby?

  Send us your cards, please.

• 53:15Graham Stephan?

  Good price.

• 53:16Jack Selby?

  Yeah, it's a great, great value.

• 53:17Speaker 02

  It's a great price. It's a great value. It's a great value spend for sure.

• 53:20Jack Selby?

  Walk me through like a day in the life of a musician. Just, I know your, every day is gonna be way different, but let's just talk like an average day. How often are you in the studio per month?

• 53:29Speaker 02

  Okay, so I usually do studio work, like making music in a very sporadic. It's, it's like two or three months, I'll just be like, fuck it. Hmm, like, let's make a ton of music. And then I kinda just choose all that, all the good music that I've made. Let's say I make a hundred, a hundred songs and I'll take like seven. And I'll be like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna market these seven songs. I really like these seven songs. Uh, I'm gonna shoot music videos. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. And just hope for the best with these joints. I used to, in the past, like do tons and tons of music making, cuz that's all, that's all I had. Like, I was just making music constantly. But now it's like more formulaic. It's kind of like very like structured.

• 54:15Speaker 02

  Cuz if I have a tour coming up, I have to like prep music cuz I want, I want people to show up and want, want to give them new music to hear. And to find enjoyable to when I do the shows. What else? Uh, so a typical day, let's say, okay, when I go back, November 1st, I'm gonna be in LA. My typical day would be, I wake up, do a little bit of stretching, go to the gym, come home, figure out what I'm gonna do in that day of like, do I have a session? If I have a session at three, which is music session, I'll make music, then I'll work with my team of like, content strategy for the next week or something like that. And then go make the session, go make the song, hope for the best in the studio.

• 54:59Speaker 02

  And then come home, rinse and repeat for weeks. And then one off day will be like, hey, we have a show on the 12th. So we're gonna fly to Mexico City and hang out there for a couple of days. I'm doing a show in Mexico City. And then I will fly back to LA or go to another place and just make content with people.

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• 55:47Jack Selby?

  And doing those shows in like the one offs in Mexico City, are those worth it financially? Or would you say that's more so cultivating the audience?

• 55:53Speaker 02

  So one off shows, college shows, festivals, that, those are worth it. Because they have a ton of production already. And it's, sometimes I would say 9.6 times out of 10, it's not a bad look.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  Or 96% of the time it's not a bad look. Sometimes like the festival will flop or not sell tickets. And then you're just like, kinda left shitless. You're like, well, I didn't have the ability to market this. But sometimes like people can like post a video if there's like no one at your show and be like, wow, bro fell off.

• 56:28Jack Selby?

  I've seen that with a few like rappers. Like I swear I saw that with like, like Lil Baby or something.

• 56:34Speaker 02

  Tickets right now, ticket sales are the lowest they've been in 35 years.

• 56:38Jack Selby?

  Why do you think that is?

• 56:40Speaker 02

  TikTok brain. People don't care. People want stimulus now. Why would you go to a show where it's like an hour and a half into your day, an hour transiting probably? Where you're like, oh, I have to go like listen to these songs in person? Yeah, there's obviously a lot of people that probably don't see it that way too, but think about the younger generation. And also, there's a lot of people who like probably don't even see it because social media is so alienating now. It's too much for people. Like, is it not too much for you guys?

• 57:09Jack Selby?

  Definitely is. It's not good for my brain. So I I'm similar to you. Like, I try very hard, it's a conscious effort to limit it.

• 57:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:16Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 57:16Graham Stephan?

  I've seen a lot of them cancel shows. Like, ah, we can't do this show. We just didn't sell enough tickets.

• 57:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's a lot of-

• 57:22Graham Stephan?

  The cost, though.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Well-

• 57:24Jack Selby?

  No?

• 57:24Speaker 02

  It's like cost, but it's also just people aren't selling tickets. I I don't know what it is. Luckily, thank the gods, my American tour, because I was worried I was not gonna sell any tickets. I don't know, just everyone around my camp, the people that I know, are just aren't selling tickets. And I was like, oh, shit, man. But we like blew out 10,000 tickets in a week, which is sick for me. Like, that's way above average. My my agent's texting me, he's like, bro, really proud, like, this is this is sick. We're on the up, like, amazing. He's like, you're really blowing out tickets. Like, this is gonna be great news for all the promoters and all the buyers of like festivals. So I'm gonna be able to do like festival shows and get bags there. But yeah, I mean, things things on on my side are are great, so.

• 58:08Graham Stephan?

  So Google estimates your net worth at three to five million. Is that accurate? Where do they get that number from?

• 58:15Jack Selby?

  Are they just guessing?

• 58:16Speaker 02

  I don't know how they make these numbers. Uh, it's it's not accurate, but um-

• 58:21Graham Stephan?

  Low or is it high?

• 58:23Speaker 02

  Hey, man, we come, we come, we come to the game. We sometimes don't know how to play. Uh, but I don't, yeah, I've never fully understood it of how they would make this assumption. I think if I was an independent, I would probably have less than that number, hypothetically. I don't know. I, one of my largest decisions that I I would say is a mistake is when I had La La La, I didn't sign my album. That album that I had, I didn't spend a penny marketing it because my algorithm, my name, was so fueled, just like fueled in all social media. Like, I uploaded a video on YouTube and it did like seven million first week

• 59:05Speaker 02

  because the next thing you upload when you have a banger is gonna do better because the algorithm. I don't know fundamentally what it is, but-

• 59:15Speaker 02

  So when that happened, I was like, all right, like, uh, I'm, I'm gonna do it my way. But I, I fucked up and I didn't spend a single penny on marketing that album. Where that album could have been ginormous if I spent a hundred, two hundred thousand dollars.

• 59:28Graham Stephan?

  What do you spend the marketing on?

• 59:29Speaker 02

  Just like getting creators to make content and this, just like developing out the story as well. So like, if I had a $200,000 budget, I'd probably spend like,

• 59:43Speaker 02

  probably spend like $20,000 on like third party marketing teams to get like real big blog editorial posting. So it feels real. So you can just use that content. You can get like a magazine post and be like, yeah, I'm on a front cover of a magazine. Even if the magazine doesn't do anything. So it signals to the fan, you're like, oh, I'm cool. I'm real. And then I would, if a song goes crazy, you run it to radio. So radio is a completely tertiary, basically dying format. But if you have a song on like pop, pop, pop, pop radio and it's going crazy, you're making a million dollars a week. Like you're making a shit ton of money from the publishing side. So that's only if a song goes crazy.

• 1:00:23Speaker 02

  And then, and then really like I would send the rest on a bunch of really epic music videos, like developing out, uh, the, the story of the album. The, the likeness of the album, the, the, the, uh, creative endeavors and just putting more money into that. So people can dive deeper into it. And then really 70, 60% of that marketing budget, just drop it on like Instagram reels or people having, making TikTok posts.

• 1:00:53Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:53Speaker 02

  And like, when you see a little, a little smoke come up, when you, that's the thing. You gotta be really, really opportunistic in music. And when you see a little smoke bubbling or like a bubble, you're like, oh, we gotta spend. Because you might miss, you might miss it in a millisecond.

• 1:01:07Graham Stephan?

  So how do you recommend someone who wants to get into the music industry to start? Let's just say that they they're making their own music, they they are, you know, in their parents' bedroom, just getting started. How do they blow up?

• 1:01:19Speaker 02

  Well, so this this guy named David, I don't know, you know, David?

• 1:01:22Jack Selby?

  In the closet.

• 1:01:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, in the closet. So this guy, I think his song is like 1.5 billion now. He made a song like on his fucking iPhone. And it's ginormous, like triple, quadruple platinum. The homie was like making music in the Fortnite closet, like legit. He was a Fortnite streamer and it was like, fuck it, I'm gonna make music. Made one of the biggest songs of like 2022, 2023, I don't know when it was.

• 1:01:47Speaker 02

  On his iPhone, you can just put music out, you never know what's gonna hit. And yeah, his whole life changed, like SZA brought him on tour. And just, just like that.

• 1:01:57Jack Selby?

  And he's young.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  He's super, I think he's like 18 still.

• 1:02:00Jack Selby?

  Yeah, like when that song came out, I think he was like 16 or something like that.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, and there's like, he uploads like photos of him and his, I think, little sister or little brother, and they're just like, making new song. And I think the brother's like, or Laura's little sister, I don't really know, it was like seven.

• 1:02:15Speaker 02

  And it's just like, dude, what like?

• 1:02:17Graham Stephan?

  How does he get traction to that? Is he just posting it on YouTube? Did he use his?

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  I think TikTok, TikTok is really what blew up. I don't know if he used his audience, I have no idea, like there's a void in there. But the thing is, is like, when you upload a song and you're just being yourself on social media, it it will hypothetically resonate. Someone, somebody you said, you're like, are people making music for like TikTok moments? I think if you just try to make a good song, it might go on TikTok, it might not, but even if it doesn't go on TikTok, if it's a good song, people are gonna listen to it. That's it.

• 1:02:50Jack Selby?

  Like, how have you been so strategic in marketing yourself? I feel like there are very few artists that go on as many podcasts as you go on, that like, that are so active on social media that that like, I mean, you collaborate with a bunch of like YouTubers and stuff like that. And as I'm scrolling reels, like, like, I'll see you all the time, like, were you strategic in that area? Or is that kind of just you taking every opportunity?

• 1:03:14Speaker 02

  It's kind of like me taking every opportunity. But I also like have kind of branded myself to just be low effort and it works sometimes. Sometimes it definitely does not work and it really misses, TikTok is fucked as well. But I feel like a lot of the time, it's just like, the lower the effort. The better the results.

• 1:03:34Jack Selby?

  I just see a lot of like the really popular artists as well, like Kendrick Lamar or Drake or Daniel Caesar, Rexxar County, like they're just completely gone. They're recluses, like they don't go on social media, they don't go on podcasts, they don't do anything and then they just show up every once in a while with an album.

• 1:03:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, there are different types of artists, I think. I kind of live in a space where I'm a little bit new age. Uh, and I have to promote my music for it to be heard kind of thing. I also could just literally put a song out and just not touch it. I could totally do that. But I like, I like the challenge. I, I, I like thinking about it and being like, you know what? I would love for this song to be huge because it means a lot to me or something like that. Uh, sometimes it gets incredibly frustrating and like, there's too many people speaking and I'll just like be like, what the fuck? But, uh, most of the time it's very rewarding when it works. And you know, it's like, what's the point of doing something if you're not going to do it to the best of your ability? I think that comes across as like something that is very like, uh, like a heart point

• 1:04:35Speaker 02

  of my, of my brand. And it's a very accessible for people to be like, oh, he's just like, he's just a literal idiot on social media. That's, that like kind of makes good music. It's cool. So that's, that's my take on it, I guess.

• 1:04:50Jack Selby?

  It's interesting when you mentioned that you were bigger in China of all markets. I heard you say that recently.

• 1:04:55Speaker 02

  China, dude, it's so ridiculous. China, I was in university and I got a DM, it was like right during like midterms week. And I was like, man, I don't know if I can do this music shit anymore. It's really not working. Like I was genuinely going to give up. And this, I was also doing a Kobe's amount of Adderall because I'm not an academic. Um, I wouldn't recommend it guys. Uh, so I got a DM from this, this girl didn't follow anybody but me on Twitter and was like, hey, you're famous in China. I'm like, shut the fuck up. Like, what do you mean? She's like, no, I'm being serious. I'm like, huh? And I had a foreign exchange student in, at my, in my class and I was like, yo, like,

• 1:05:40Speaker 02

  do you, do you know this like app called NetEase and like Wong Yi and like 163 Music? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, do you know, like, do you know, like what this means? And I was asking him. Like what all the analytics were and he's like, wait, this is your song? And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, dude, this song is huge. I'm like, really? And then we just like became friends after that and he like helped me get WeChat, helped me get Weibo and a bunch of the social medias and then there's this dude named Loose out in, out in Shanghai. And I was like, I made a fan group on, on WeChat and so many fans poured in, they were like, my phone was like buzzing off the wazoo. And I was like, holy shit. I remember just sitting there with my roommate, Kyle and, and Daniel.

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  And we were just like, dude, what the fuck is going on my phone? Like I couldn't use it cause like

• 1:06:29Speaker 02

  and I, I texted this guy Loose. I was like, what's up? Like everyone's telling me to hit you up. And he's like, cool. Let's do a tour. And I was like, really? And homie scammed my ass so hard, like we sold out six capacities, all like 900 plus. And I went from doing midterms, not selling, literally doing a show in like Victoria B C with like one singular person, like one person, to doing 900 capacity solo shows, like drunk off my ass and being like, fuck it, let's party. And like, didn't even know, my DJ didn't even own a DJ, like we were just winging it so hard.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  And at that point, he gave me like $2,000 for all these shows. And I think he probably pocketed like a hundred grand. Uh, but at that time I was busting tables and I was like, all right, this is sick. And I'm like, I'm making more money I would have made than busting tables, playing my own music in China. I'm going. And I went and it was like the greatest experience of my life. Like it was life changing for sure. Like people had tattoos of me out there. I was like, what the fuck is going on? I remember the first show I turned around, I looked at Dan, my DJ, and I was like, bro, what the fuck is going on? And people were like, ah, and I'm like, bro, what the? So that was like the first like, whoa, moment.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Uh, and then everything, honestly, everything after that kind of just became normalized. Cause I was like, if, if my music can be so impactful in China, like it has to be able to be impactful out here. And I was just like, I gotta keep trying. And then my homie Young Gravy blew up and then it was just like, we, I just kept trying. I stopped, stopped partying, started waking up at like four in the morning, started drinking coffee. I just started really giving it my all. So.

• 1:08:17Jack Selby?

  What song was that?

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  It was a song called Yo Yo Tokyo, which I only had out in North America for like not long, like not long, very short. Uh, it was like a week and then I don't know the inception of how. So basically what happened was this, this guy, 16th birthday, Jackson, Jackson Yi, Jackson Yi, he danced to one of my songs in a two-song choreographed like setup. And it was just one of my songs. So I have no idea who recommended it. I have no idea if my music was popular out there prior, but soon as he danced, I went immediately viral. That was basically it.

• 1:08:56Graham Stephan?

  Although really quick, before we go into that, even if you think it's a bit overhyped, AI is suddenly everywhere from self-driving cars, molecular medicine to business efficiency. If it's not in your industry yet, it's coming fast.

• 1:09:07Jack Selby?

  But of course, the problem is that AI requires a ton of speed and computing power. So how can you compete without costs spiraling out of control?

• 1:09:14Graham Stephan?

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• 1:09:20Jack Selby?

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• 1:10:11Speaker 02

  Dude, I had, I got water on the CDJs and I had to do pushups for like 30 minutes. It was, it was a joke. I had no idea what the fuck was going on.

• 1:10:19Graham Stephan?

  Was it freaky for you?

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  It was like, this is funny, you know, like, it was like, this is so not what it should be. But I'll take it. So it was kind of like a really, really eye opening experience that I was like, oh, maybe I do have the ability to do something like this. And I think it really gave me the driving factor of being like, I have to do this, like, something is telling me. I think once I saw some dude, no bullshit, have Baby No Money tattooed on his neck. I was like, okay, you fucked up, like, so hard.

• 1:10:52Graham Stephan?

  Did you tell him that he made a mistake?

• 1:10:54Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:10:55Graham Stephan?

  Okay.

• 1:10:56Speaker 02

  Uh, but I was just, at that point, I was like, I gotta do this, like, religiously, like, at least for him. So he doesn't make a goddamn terrible ass mistake. But yeah, it was a very, very interesting experience that I don't know. I would love to re-feel that again, cuz it was, it was so like, unexpected. But at the same time, I was making music and I was like, I really hope this would happen. And then I think the second time I ever felt something similar was when I had La La La, I was like, about time. Like, it took me

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  two and a half years later, after I blew up in China. It took me two and a half years later to have La La La in North America, and that was like my first big stamp of approval in, in America. And in North America, like, rest of the world. And at that moment, I was like, okay, I made it. Like, I for sure made it.

• 1:11:47Graham Stephan?

  How much do you make and then scrap and just don't post?

• 1:11:51Speaker 02

  Well, when you, when you dipped out for a minute, uh, I was like, I basically make like a hundred songs and I'll put out like seven.

• 1:11:57Graham Stephan?

  Whoa.

• 1:11:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I scrap a lot. It kinda sucks cuz like, I used to be way more down to just put everything out, but then I realized being more intentional and like, actually putting out exclusively bangers. People will be like, oh, I know he's putting out a, like, a hitter. So I'm gonna go back and make sure I listen to it for the first time.

• 1:12:16Graham Stephan?

  But how do you know that those songs don't really hit with an audience? Wouldn't it be better to have like a, like an in-person test group? Of like twenty people, twenty big fans, play the music and just have them rate it? If they like the song, maybe you test another group?

• 1:12:31Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, like, yeah, there's testing groups and stuff, but.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  You never know, like you literally never know. I mean, I remember my videographer. I sent him all a lot and I was like, yo, we should shoot a banger to this one. This one's gonna be it. I promise you. I promise you. And he's like, I don't like this song at all.

• 1:12:49Speaker 02

  He's like, I don't even wanna shoot it. I'm like, okay, don't worry about it. Didn't shoot the music video. And then we shot the music video because it blew up. We had to make a music video. It has like 700 million plays on YouTube. And I'm like, bro, you fucked up. That would have been like the biggest game changing asset for your like directing career for sure, ever. But I mean, that's just the nature of things. That's how it goes.

• 1:13:11Graham Stephan?

  I know for us and just for myself, there are some videos that I put so much time and effort into that I love the video and I post it. It's just terrible.

• 1:13:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:13:17Graham Stephan?

  Other videos I'll make on a whim and they do really well, even though I think it's not, not the best videos, just for whatever reason it did, does well.

• 1:13:24Speaker 02

  So I, I did this video, this TikToker guy, uh, content creator guy named Justin Yi. And it's like super sick. It was for this song called Two, the, the one I was talking about, the music video. And he did like a very DIY setup, like made paintings, did this. And I honestly, when I watched the video, I'm like, this is so sick. Like it's really cool. But it just like, doesn't do well on an algorithm and it just makes no fucking sense. Anyone would look at this video and be like, yo, this is so sick. Like, great job. This is really cool. And it's like the formatting or like the file type or, or the video type, the video quality type will hinder the, the video.

• 1:14:05Speaker 02

  And it's just like, it's kind of interesting because it, it, it puts a weird perspective on content creators' minds. And that is like, I have to kind of fit into this pole or this, this, this line of how I make music and how I deliver it, or how I make content and how I deliver it. And I think it's kind of like washed a little bit of people's full blown creativity. And I think, I think it's like reducing the standard of quality across the board. And I think people are just getting more and more okay with just like mid tier everything. So.

• 1:14:37Jack Selby?

  Walk me through grinding for years and then having the song La La La that blows up. What are the next few days like? What is your phone like? Is it just constant? Just iMessage barrage? Did you get any DMs from people you idolized?

• 1:14:52Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, I remember. I remember like the the last day. Okay, so basically Y2K was going to get this record deal. And when he was getting this record deal, he was like, we can't let this song drop. We let the song drop on streaming. We're fucked, basically. What'll happen is he might lose his deal. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna work my ass off. So I worked like 14 hours of just like sending sending out people memes to post about the song, basically. And then what happens at this moment? Uh, I call my ex and I'm like, I have a hit, basically. And I call my manager and I'm like, dude, we gotta get this song go up. We're fucked. The next morning, it goes up. I fly. I take a red eye to New York. We sign it just like that. And I just remember like right after I signed it, we went for beers.

• 1:15:38Speaker 02

  And I was just like, damn, about time. Like it, like it, it felt like I was like, I was like about fucking time. I've been working my goddamn ass off for like five years. In North America, I had no, no recognition really. And I was like, for the first time ever, I felt like it just made sense. And it was, it was cool because I think it was very validating that I knew that song was gonna be a hit. And I was just like so convinced. I was just like, fuck it. I gotta make this song a hit. And it was a hit. And then like all the other songs I put out, like two before and two after, they all did great. And it was just kind of like a springboard effect that like took me up a lot. And, uh, yeah, it's been a really interesting experience. There's highs and lows, peaks and peaks and like lows and whatnot.

• 1:16:20Speaker 02

  But I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it for the world. Sometimes it's really annoying that I have to make content all the time, but, um.

• 1:16:26Jack Selby?

  What's the, what's the worst low?

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  Sometimes I, I do too many shows and I like burn myself out really hard. Uh, burnout is so real, being a touring act. I think like just not having regularity in your schedule really is, is tiresome. Um. Yeah, I think, I think I've, I've been to the point where I'm like, oh, I'm so past burnt out. I'm just so in burnout that I don't even recognize it sometimes. And then it just like gets like double down. And then I'm just like cooked. I just sometimes like sit there and I'm like.

• 1:17:01Speaker 02

  And I wanna do things, but I just can't. I like, I'm at capacity. And I also think I have ADHD and a bunch of like a loo of other things. But I think that's probably the lowest it's been was recently.

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• 1:17:46Graham Stephan?

  How do you date as a musician? Is that something that's like easy? Is it difficult? Is, are there different challenges that come along with that?

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Uh, it's pretty cooked. I'll be honest. I remember this, this guy David, I just bought my apartment and we just had la la la. And it was like October, I don't know, 10th. And we're walking back into my fucking apartment. I remember this vividly and he's like, yo, you know, dating for you is fucked for the rest of your life. And I'm like, God damn it, fuck, stupid. Uh, and it's true. It's, it's, it's, it's a little difficult for sure. I, that's the one pillar in my life that I don't really have fulfilled. And that's the one pillar in my life that I've always wanted. I just wanted like some normalcy with like love and affection and feelings and whatnot. But, I mean, hey, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be in the position I was in if I was dramatically in love, I think.

• 1:18:38Speaker 02

  And I also wouldn't switch it for anything. So.

• 1:18:41Graham Stephan?

  What makes it so difficult? You think it would be like really easy, no? Like what's the hardest part about it?

• 1:18:48Speaker 02

  Maintaining a relationship. I am a serial monogamist.

• 1:18:50Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:51Speaker 02

  And I believe out of a place of trust and love and I wanna build a family, basically. But eh, it's just like, yeah, I can go and get laid. What's that gonna do for me? It doesn't make me happy. You're like, I don't want that.

• 1:19:05Graham Stephan?

  But it seems like it'd be easy to find a relationship too.

• 1:19:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:19:08Graham Stephan?

  Easier.

• 1:19:09Speaker 02

  But it's, but the, there's all, hmm, at least historically in the past, for me, there's been like these weird dynamics. Where I just don't like it. I, I, I want a dynamic that we're both growing together rather than like swapping back and forth, like the power struggle kind of thing. And I, you know, interestingly enough, like I go on tour, I'm the one that's insecure. So I have a bunch of shit I gotta figure out myself because I kind of neglected all of my emotional wellbeing for like eight years to do all this music shit. And I feel like I'm kind of like lightly emotionally stinted, but I'm working on it now. So, uh, but at the same time.

• 1:19:45Graham Stephan?

  What, what's, what are you insecure about if you're on a, on a tour? Is it like the time difference and not spending time with someone or like?

• 1:19:51Speaker 02

  I don't really know. Sometimes I don't even know what I need in a relationship. Uh, but I, I'm, I'm gathering recently that I haven't yet met a person that wants to take a relationship as serious as I do. And I like, I want, I want to find a connection that I really like love and find fulfilling. And I think a lot of the time, the, sometimes we view connections as like, uh, potential dynamic where it's like, probably not healthy. Or we're like, oh, this is fun. This is great. But I have yet to meet someone that kind of checks all the boxes and actually wants. I've met people that have checked boxes and don't want a relationship or a committed relationship.

• 1:20:35Speaker 02

  But I've yet to meet anyone that wants a committed relationship and has checked all the boxes. Obviously, yeah, God fucking bless. If I meet someone, that's perfect. That's perfect. I'm, you know, there's someone out there for me for sure. I'm, I'm not too, too worried. Uh, and one of these days they will come around for sure. It's just like, it would be dumber sooner than later kind of thing.

• 1:20:56Jack Selby?

  I got, this is completely like a 180, but I have a question about your hair. Your hairline is immaculate. Do you take any sort of thing for your hairline? And on top of that, like the beard, it's the perfect beard. I, I am so hairy. I have a lot of hair, but it doesn't grow in perfectly like your beard and mustache do.

• 1:21:15Graham Stephan?

  Jack, you're really going strong with the compliments.

• 1:21:18Jack Selby?

  Look, I know you're single. I'm single too. We can, we can figure something out here.

• 1:21:22Speaker 02

  Shit, man.

• 1:21:22Jack Selby?

  No, I'm just trying to understand. It's like, how did, do you like derma roll or is there like a?

• 1:21:27Graham Stephan?

  Are you guys gonna co-parent?

• 1:21:28Jack Selby?

  Is there like a strategy? I wanna be a dad.

• 1:21:30Speaker 02

  I do literally nothing to my, like, nothing.

• 1:21:35Jack Selby?

  It's the worst thing you could've told.

• 1:21:35Speaker 02

  Well, obviously like I, I shaved a bit today. Like I, you know, I gotta clean it up a little bit. Uh, but for hair, I don't use shampoo or conditioner or nothing. I just let it go greasy and just let it grow up.

• 1:21:47Jack Selby?

  So I actually did that for like two or so months because I heard dandruff is generated from drying your, your hair out. And then it like starts accumulating and then you dry it out again to fix the dandruff, which does it, but temporarily. And then it starts accumulating again. But if you get past that crux, then over time you won't have the dandruff. Is that what you experienced? Is that actually true?

• 1:22:07Speaker 02

  Uh, I don't really deal with dandruff. I just like, I, I remember I was in high school. My brother was getting all like hipstery and he was like, yeah, don't wash your hair, bro. And I just stopped washing my hair.

• 1:22:16Jack Selby?

  What about the smell?

• 1:22:17Speaker 02

  Doesn't smell bad. So it's naturally cleaning itself. Legit. Smell it if you want. Get over here, man.

• 1:22:24Jack Selby?

  All right. Hey, you can lean over the table.

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:22:26Jack Selby?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:27Speaker 02

  Doesn't smell bad.

• 1:22:30Jack Selby?

  That's like, that's a good musk. It's not even, it's not even like it's. It doesn't even, it's not that it smells like nothing, but it's, it's a musk, you know, like a good.

• 1:22:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Very manly, one to say.

• 1:22:40Jack Selby?

  We gotta change the, the course of this conversation. Cause I'm outing myself. Guys, I'm straight. There have been questions. People think that Graham and I are like dating. That's not the case.

• 1:22:48Speaker 02

  That's dope.

• 1:22:49Jack Selby?

  Um, okay, I have a question about private venues. Justin Bieber was paid ten million dollars. They're not, it might be confirmed, I don't know, but it's been widely reported that he was paid ten million dollars to perform at a pre-wedding celebration for a super wealthy, like billionaire family, one of the wealthiest people in Asia. Have you ever been offered like a private venue thing? Or is that like something that happens? I'm so curious, cause ten million dollars to perform at one thing is ridiculous.

• 1:23:18Speaker 02

  It's Justin Bieber. And also, no, like, Justin Bieber, have you seen Justin Bieber live? Either of you guys?

• 1:23:23Jack Selby?

  No.

• 1:23:24Speaker 02

  Incredible. Like, I always was like, ah, it's Justin Bieber, cringe. I saw him live and I was like, oh, hmm. Like, he's perfectly in key. Like, every, every word he says is perfect. It's perfect. Like, I always, I always was just like, you know what, like, all these girls like Justin Bieber, you know, whatever, he's probably just cute, but he's so unbelievably professional. It's nuts.

• 1:23:47Jack Selby?

  Hmm.

• 1:23:48Speaker 02

  Uh, have I done like a super private event? I've definitely done private events, but not to that extent, obviously. Like, ten, if I was making ten million dollars for a private event, black cards would be on me, for sure. Uh, I've definitely done private events. I mean, they, they typically do pay better, but they suck.

• 1:24:09Jack Selby?

  Hmm, it's not as fun.

• 1:24:10Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, definitely not.

• 1:24:11Jack Selby?

  Cause no one's like singing your music.

• 1:24:12Speaker 02

  No one's like actually there for you. You're just like, that, that is, that is like the wife's dream and he's like, alright, I got you. Like, I love you. Here's ten million dollars. Uh, but, I mean, I would have loved to go to that wedding, it sounds like a fucking blast.

• 1:24:29Graham Stephan?

  I think it lasted over like several days, too, that wedding.

• 1:24:32Jack Selby?

  Did it really?

• 1:24:32Graham Stephan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:33Jack Selby?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:24:34Speaker 02

  I mean, ten million dollars, man.

• 1:24:35Jack Selby?

  That's a lot, yeah.

• 1:24:36Speaker 02

  It's so interesting that he would still do that shit for ten million dollars.

• 1:24:39Jack Selby?

  Ten mil, I mean, you know, private jet, like, and they'll make it so easy on him. I think he just showed up, performed, and then left. So it's like maybe twenty-four hours, maybe thirty hours for ten million dollars.

• 1:24:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, apparently he left right afterwards. I'm pretty sure some, some of it was posted on TikTok, not the concert itself, but like his wedding, and I believe it lasted like a week.

• 1:24:58Speaker 02

  That's so far.

• 1:24:59Graham Stephan?

  It was like a week long.

• 1:25:00Speaker 02

  And when I get married, I'm two weeks.

• 1:25:02Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, all the groomsmen got AP watches, but like this, I think it was like the skeleton AP. Yeah, because they posted a photo of like all the APs together like in a circle.

• 1:25:13Jack Selby?

  So you really know all the lore.

• 1:25:15Speaker 02

  Damn, we fucking suck. We shouldn't have had the wedding.

• 1:25:17Jack Selby?

  We need it in.

• 1:25:20Jack Selby?

  What about features? Is there a lot of money in features?

• 1:25:22Speaker 02

  Like doing features?

• 1:25:23Jack Selby?

  Doing features, yeah. Or like, do you pay other people to come on your, on your?

• 1:25:27Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 1:25:27Jack Selby?

  How's that, how's that economy work out?

• 1:25:28Speaker 02

  Typically, I really like just doing a song where it's like, I meet them, I meet them, and I'm like, I actually vibe with them. And then I'll send them the song and they'll do it or something. We, I did this song with, uh, Young Bay ages ago. We ended up getting, uh, Wiz? Wiz Khalifa. Yeah, Wiz Khalifa. Uh, I got Wiz Khalifa on it. And, uh.

• 1:25:48Jack Selby?

  Wow, how did I?

• 1:25:49Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, I was about to say, I'm like.

• 1:25:50Jack Selby?

  Wiz what? I'm like.

• 1:25:51Graham Stephan?

  I'm like Khalifa.

• 1:25:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:25:52Graham Stephan?

  It must not be Khalifa.

• 1:25:54Speaker 02

  Dude, I, yeah, my brain just turned off. I, this is sponsored by Nutrigenic. Uh, so we ended up getting him on it. It was like 50 grand, but like I had no communication with it. This wasn't my song. They like uploaded it. They did everything. And yeah, he kind of made the song a little cooler, but it didn't really do anything.

• 1:26:09Jack Selby?

  50 grand to get Wiz Khalifa on a song?

• 1:26:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, but this was like, this was like four years ago when he was a lot more poppin'.

• 1:26:15Jack Selby?

  Interesting.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  Cause I think, I think he probably had a couple of kids and always chilling.

• 1:26:18Jack Selby?

  Who's somebody that you would love to collaborate with on a song?

• 1:26:21Speaker 02

  I've always said like Pharrell Williams or like Timbaland, Missy Elliott. Just like.

• 1:26:25Graham Stephan?

  Missy Elliott?

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Just like the legends. Yeah, that'd be really, really sick. Um, but as, as far as I'm like more contemporary, uh, there's this girl named Leve.

• 1:26:35Jack Selby?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:26:36Speaker 02

  I love her. Yeah. Like, I don't think we would make a song that makes any sense, really, maybe. But there's something that her music has is just, that is eons better than everyone else's. It's so beautiful.

• 1:26:48Jack Selby?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  It's so pretty and like, uh, charismatic and also like the, the visual imagery comes across perfect in her music. Like you can listen to a song, you can just like see it in form of a Disney movie. It's weird.

• 1:27:02Jack Selby?

  No, she's awesome. That would, that would be, that would be really cool.

• 1:27:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:04Graham Stephan?

  Uh, I'm really curious where you invest your own money? Like, do you save it? Do you invest it somewhere? Like, what's the plan?

• 1:27:10Speaker 02

  I have a saving principle of like at least minimally 70%. But that has been since day one. I started working at my. Store like super, super early on. Uh, so I've been saving about seventy percent minimum. But honestly, it it it equates to about like after my net, probably like eighty, ninety percent. I don't spend, I don't spend any of my fucking money. Um, and then I just, honestly, I, I, I could be doing a lot better. Financially, I have like probably five or 10% in like kind of high risk or like risk.

• 1:27:42Graham Stephan?

  All that like individual stocks and crypto.

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff like that. Uh, during the crypto pump in like twenty twenty one, I ended up. Doing pretty decent and then I poured it all into Bitcoin. So I have like five coins.

• 1:27:55Graham Stephan?

  Oh, good.

• 1:27:56Speaker 02

  It's pretty dope. And then I have like probably like eighty percent, eighty five percent locked away and just like. High interest, high interest.

• 1:28:05Graham Stephan?

  Oh, like savings accounts?

• 1:28:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:28:07Graham Stephan?

  Oh, you're not, what about index funds?

• 1:28:08Speaker 02

  No, I just don't do that.

• 1:28:10Graham Stephan?

  Why?

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Uh, my dad and I, we just have this principle where it's like safety, just full blown.

• 1:28:18Graham Stephan?

  That might be a little too safe because you're losing some purchasing power to inflation and the downside. You're getting taxed at your, at your normal tax rate, just keeping it in the savings. That's like the least optimal thing that you could do.

• 1:28:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:28:32Jack Selby?

  Well, it's better than just a non.

• 1:28:34Graham Stephan?

  It's better than, you know what I mean? Nothing.

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  Totally. I, I, I don't disagree with any of you guys, but I also like, I don't like looking at my money that much. So my dad is just, he kind of just does it for me and I'm like happy that he has like a portion in my business.

• 1:28:48Graham Stephan?

  You might want to look into a financial advisor or or something just.

• 1:28:51Speaker 02

  I do have a financial advisor, but that is like.

• 1:28:54Graham Stephan?

  Listen to him?

• 1:28:55Speaker 02

  He like only does like crypto shit.

• 1:28:57Graham Stephan?

  Okay, that's not a financial advisor. I don't know.

• 1:28:59Speaker 02

  I, I honestly.

• 1:29:01Jack Selby?

  That's like, that's like your friend's neighbors, like older brother.

• 1:29:04Speaker 02

  To be real, to be real, I feel like if I spend more time on my music and my business.

• 1:29:09Graham Stephan?

  I understand.

• 1:29:09Jack Selby?

  Well, yeah, but the highest ROI in that.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, the highest ROI.

• 1:29:12Graham Stephan?

  But I'm just saying, when you start getting into seven figures, the amount that you're missed, like just for, for perspective on this, the market is up. Like twenty five percent this year, twenty five percent.

• 1:29:23Jack Selby?

  So if you had like three million dollars, four million, you have two hundred and fifty.

• 1:29:27Graham Stephan?

  That's two hundred and fifty, you know, thousand dollars per million that you've missed out on theoretically this year. That you would not be taxed on until you sold. So there's, there's a lot that's going on there.

• 1:29:39Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:29:39Graham Stephan?

  That you really should pay attention to because it's just if we have another twenty percent year at some point in the future. Yeah, five million, but it's a million dollars.

• 1:29:49Jack Selby?

  Well, you're aware of index funds. You know what an index fund is.

• 1:29:51Speaker 02

  Like, kind of. I kind of just haven't really spent too much brain power on that, and I probably should.

• 1:29:58Graham Stephan?

  You don't need to spend any brain power. I'm like, just get a fee-only financial advisor. You pay them by the hour, and you just say, "Tell me what to do," or "Just invest what you recommend on my behalf." It'll take you probably under an hour. Like, and the hour work is like finding someone to kind of like guide you through.

• 1:30:15Jack Selby?

  That one hour will make you, I'm guessing, probably millions of dollars over the course of a few years.

• 1:30:18Graham Stephan?

  Easily millions of dollars for one hour of your time. It's, it's, because we have a lot of people on.

• 1:30:22Jack Selby?

  That is your Justin Bieber private venue thing, right there.

• 1:30:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:30:26Graham Stephan?

  Yeah, we have a lot of people on who are on the same spot as you.

• 1:30:29Speaker 02

  I've been meaning to have a long discussion with my dad because I just feel like fundamentally, we're not doing enough with the money.

• 1:30:36Speaker 02

  You guys are heard.

• 1:30:38Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 1:30:38Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 1:30:38Graham Stephan?

  If you have any questions, I mean, just let us know.

• 1:30:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:30:42Graham Stephan?

  But we could try to point you in the right direction for like, you know, some of the talk to on this, like a professional. But it's very easy. It's very simple. And as long as you're not planning to spend it in the next like 10, 15 years, you'll be able to ride out any sort of like fluctuation in the market. There's a chance, listen, there's a chance you lose money over the next like 10 years.

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:31:00Graham Stephan?

  Long-term, it's highly unlikely. Like, the risk-reward is like this amount of risk for like that much reward. It's worth it.

• 1:31:07Jack Selby?

  And I like, if you don't like looking at it, I like an auto-invest feature. So every week, it just pulls out of my savings and just puts it in there. And it can even be for you, like a very negligible amount of money, just so you can see it over the course of even like a year. And be like, "I like this. I like how it's working," even if at the end of a year, it's like 20 grand, you know?

• 1:31:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, honestly, I do have to do a little bit more diligence with that regard because I feel like a lot of the time I kind of just turn a blind eye and just, my dad is really happy doing what he's doing. And I like to include him because that's just the most important thing, and he's, he's the most risk-averse person I have ever met in my life. And I kind of, I kind of like, don't mind it.

• 1:31:44Jack Selby?

  But you're doing a great job saving that amount of money and putting it in a high-yield savings account. Like, that is over, objectively, it's a good job.

• 1:31:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, I could be just not doing anything with it.

• 1:31:52Graham Stephan?

  Or you could be spending all the money.

• 1:31:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I don't spend anything. Yeah, we have all of it locked away, kind of thing. But, I mean, I could take it out and play with it more, but I just... I need to slow down my business like mind and then I can start working on that for sure. I just, yeah.

• 1:32:09Graham Stephan?

  Get someone else to, because I, because I hope that your, your mind doesn't slow down anytime soon because you could continue to utilize that.

• 1:32:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:18Graham Stephan?

  Where you're at now, you could be 10 times over the next like five years. But at the same time.

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  That's way easier to even think about.

• 1:32:25Graham Stephan?

  You know?

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Five years, 10 times? That's nuts. I don't even want that, but.

• 1:32:29Graham Stephan?

  Whatever you want.

• 1:32:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:32:30Graham Stephan?

  I mean.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  I appreciate, I appreciate, I appreciate.

• 1:32:32Jack Selby?

  The best thing is you're not wasting your money.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, totally.

• 1:32:34Graham Stephan?

  It upsets me when people aren't optimizing.

• 1:32:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, dude, I definitely, I definitely, I definitely need to optimize a little bit, for sure.

• 1:32:43Graham Stephan?

  Cool.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  But my, bro, my, my financial advisor dude or like the guy who like.

• 1:32:48Graham Stephan?

  He's not a financial advisor.

• 1:32:49Speaker 02

  Okay, alright, we got it.

• 1:32:52Speaker 02

  You know bullshit texting me, he's like, hey yo, should we invest in Skipity toilet?

• 1:32:58Speaker 02

  He's like, the movie's about to drop. And I was like, oh my fucking god, bro, like, did he? I woke up and that was like one of the first texts I saw like six in the morning. I was like, what the fuck?

• 1:33:10Graham Stephan?

  And you're like, yes.

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  Skipity toilet, come on.

• 1:33:13Graham Stephan?

  Who is this guy? You don't have to say his name.

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  His name's John.

• 1:33:17Jack Selby?

  Has he, has he gotten you good returns?

• 1:33:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's got me, he's got me huge plays. Like, he'll be like, yo, give me 15K and he flips this like a hundred sometimes.

• 1:33:25Graham Stephan?

  Dude, it sounds like a pump and dump group, I'm not gonna lie, like that's.

• 1:33:28Speaker 02

  But it's at like an actual firm.

• 1:33:29Jack Selby?

  Do they say like?

• 1:33:30Graham Stephan?

  Firm?

• 1:33:31Jack Selby?

  Do they, no, it's not a firm.

• 1:33:32Graham Stephan?

  There's no way.

• 1:33:33Jack Selby?

  Is it firm? Do they, do they say, oh baby, no money bought this?

• 1:33:37Speaker 02

  No, I don't think so.

• 1:33:38Jack Selby?

  Okay.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  It's definitely not, it's definitely not pumping and dumping.

• 1:33:41Graham Stephan?

  Is he on Twitter?

• 1:33:43Speaker 02

  I mean, he's definitely kind of on Twitter, uh, but I mean, hey, I mean.

• 1:33:48Jack Selby?

  Dude, I mean, if he's making you money, you know?

• 1:33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:51Jack Selby?

  Keep the amounts that you're sending him fairly low.

• 1:33:53Graham Stephan?

  Red flags, like 15 grand.

• 1:33:55Speaker 02

  Okay, well, let's talk, let's talk off the books, let's talk off the books, cuz.

• 1:33:58Graham Stephan?

  I'll give you.

• 1:33:59Speaker 02

  Boys gotta make more money.

• 1:34:00Jack Selby?

  No, yeah, yeah, for sure.

• 1:34:02Graham Stephan?

  You gotta change your name to baby got money.

• 1:34:04Speaker 02

  Baby has, yes, money.

• 1:34:05Graham Stephan?

  Has money.

• 1:34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:07Graham Stephan?

  No money, yes money. Maybe yes money. I don't know.

• 1:34:11Speaker 02

  Well, boys, that was great.

• 1:34:12Jack Selby?

  That was amazing.

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Thanks for the conversation.

• 1:34:13Jack Selby?

  Thank you so much for being on the show. Uh, we'll link to a bunch of stuff down below in the description, including our new song that's coming out. So.

• 1:34:20Graham Stephan?

  Got a music video, yeah.

• 1:34:21Jack Selby?

  Do you want to shout out anything? Like, you have like, you know, tours coming up, or?

• 1:34:24Speaker 02

  Uh, end of November. I might have a new song out. If I do have a new song out, go listen to it. If I don't, go buy a ticket, come to my shows. It's probably sold out at that time. Uh, love your parents and your family.

• 1:34:34Jack Selby?

  Amazing. Thank you, guys, for watching.

• 1:34:37Graham Stephan?

  Take care.