S3 Ep262: Crime Weekly News: Woman Set On Fire in NYC Subway

On December 22, 2024, 57-year-old Debrina Kawam was set on fire while sleeping on a train at the Coney Island-Stillwell Avenue station in Brooklyn, New York. The suspect, 33-year-old Sebastian Zapeta-Calil, approached Kawam and ignited her clothing with a lighter. Despite efforts to extinguish the flames, Kawam succumbed to her injuries shortly after the attack. Try our coffee!! - www. CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > ｿ https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> ｿ https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derrick Levasseur.

• 0:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I'm Stephanie Harlow.

• 0:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Happy holidays to everyone. We hope you had an amazing Christmas if you guys celebrate. And as you're watching this or listening to it, it's New Year's Day.

• 0:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, New Year's Eve.

• 0:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, well, it's New Year's Day for them. New Year's Eve for us.

• 0:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, true.

• 0:32Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, but for you, it's New Year's Day.

• 0:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  Happy New Years!

• 0:36Derrick Levasseur?

  Happy New Year! We hope you had a good time. Do you have any special plans for tonight, Stephanie?

• 0:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  No. My special plans are take a shower, wash my hair, and get in bed early.

• 0:46Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm not a big New Year's person either.

• 0:48Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, I'm beat. The Christmas and everything really just took me out.

• 0:51Derrick Levasseur?

  I just celebrated my daughter Tenley's birthday. She turned 12. Happy birthday, Tenley.

• 0:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know. She looks like a little lady on the pictures you posted.

• 1:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Don't remind me.

• 1:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  She looks so grown up. I can't stand it. Oh my God.

• 1:04Derrick Levasseur?

  It's bad.

• 1:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  She looks just like you.

• 1:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but yes, she does. It's bittersweet. My last year before her teens, and you've already experienced it with Nev, so you know how it goes. Oh yeah, Aiden too. That's right. That's right, damn.

• 1:17Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I gotta tell you, little boys, once they become teenagers, they're easy up till then. People are always like, "Oh, girls, once they become teenagers." I find that the little boys are far more...

• 1:28Derrick Levasseur?

  Difficult? Is that a nice way to say it?

• 1:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Sensitive. Yeah, challenging. He's challenging.

• 1:35Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm waiting for it, because all my buddies are like, "Just wait, man. Just wait." All of a sudden, one day, it just hits. And I'm like, dreading that day. I just hope that I have the exception to the rule. I probably don't.

• 1:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  I never did with Nev, so you might.

• 1:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I really do. I really do hope. Okay. Well, we hope everyone had a good holiday out there as well, and we hope you guys were all safe and made the right choices. And you're here, listening or watching, under good circumstances, not from a jail cell. So that's the goal.

• 2:02Stephanie Harlowe?

  Jeez. Damn, who's 0 to 100, man?

• 2:06Derrick Levasseur?

  So we're gonna switch gears really quick because this is something that happened before Christmas, but it's been making its rounds through the media and it's bringing up a lot of interesting conversations. But for anybody who doesn't know, on December 22, 57-year-old Debrina Kawam was asleep on the idle F train at the Stillwell Avenue Station in Brooklyn, New York, when just before 7:30 a.m., she was set on fire by a man who we're gonna talk about tonight. They've identified him.

• 2:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  They just did, yeah.

• 2:37Derrick Levasseur?

  There's a lot of conversations around him, but just seeing the video, I saw it obviously everywhere, and it's just a really disturbing video to see and a lot of people are dissecting it. What does it mean? The fact that there's this one visual, which I truly don't understand, where you can kind of see Debrina in the background on fire, and there's like an Amtrak slash police officer, I don't know if it's an NYPD guy, but they're just kind of looking at the camera and not doing anything to put her out, which-

• 3:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  He actually looks annoyed.

• 3:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he looks disturbed and I don't get that.

• 3:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  He looks annoyed. He doesn't look disturbed. He looks like, Jesus, another thing? That's what he looks like. I was like, this can't, and I mean, I, at first, my first initial response was to be like, this asshole, right? But then, I live in New York. I go to New York City, well, I used to go to New York City a lot. In the past few years, I do not, because the crime there is so exponentially out of control, that it's just, it's not worth it anymore. That city that I, that I once loved very much, has been completely destroyed by crime. And I almost wonder if his reaction, because it's not like he wasn't, I mean, what was he gonna do to put her out at that point?

• 3:52Derrick Levasseur?

  He could do something.

• 3:53Stephanie Harlowe?

  He could do something, I agree. But maybe he was like, now I gotta call this in, you know, it's such another thing. Like, I don't know, man. I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, because I cannot imagine walking by somebody who was on fire, looking annoyed in that way, and then just walking on and doing nothing. I can't imagine that that's what happened. And I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, because I need to regain or retain both, actually regain and retain some faith in humanity at this point.

• 4:19Derrick Levasseur?

  To your point- And again, we'd have to hear from him. The optics of it is terrible. There's no way around it. Just the perspective of it.

• 4:27Stephanie Harlowe?

  There was three police officers that walked by her. Three.

• 4:29Derrick Levasseur?

  It was, how many?

• 4:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  Three.

• 4:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Three. It just, optically, it looks terrible. There, there could be an argument where, at that point, they know she's gone. You could tell she's gone and she's not standing there. She's kind of, she's already gone. She's already gone and maybe they're not wanting to, uh, you know, contaminate the crime scene. I mean, that would be an argument, but for me personally, as a human being, if I'm the police officer there, I'm taking off my jacket, I'm throwing it over her, I'm doing something, or I'm, or I'm going to find a fire extinguisher. I'm putting her out. I mean, if it contaminates the scene, it contaminates the scene, but you gotta, there's, like you said, a human element to it where I'm not just gonna stand by,

• 5:09Derrick Levasseur?

  and if I was a civilian taking that video or that photo and I seen that, I would have dropped my camera and put her out as well. So, there's different things that could have been done. I don't like the optics of it. Obviously, this isn't why we're here today, not to just talk about this, this one visual. We're here to talk about the crime and how crazy this all is that this could happen in 2024. Um, but here we are. Here we are. And like I said, it's bringing up a lot of interesting conversations. There's people on both sides of the political aisle making, uh, making it a political issue, um, which I'll, I'll save that for you as far as you getting into the details, but we'll discuss it. Overall, it's a horrible situation.

• 5:49Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, he'll say, he'll save the controversial stuff for me. Thanks.

• 5:53Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, I mean, you're covering it. I mean, listen, it's not us saying it. I mean, listen, it's a very public thing. If you go on X, you go on social media, any platform, TikTok, you're seeing different people taking this and using it to support their position. Not only politicians.

• 6:08Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I don't care about that.

• 6:09Derrick Levasseur?

  I don't even, to be honest with you, neither do I.

• 6:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Because people who are that extreme on one side or the other are gonna cling to any story that somehow supports their narrative or whatever. I don't care about that.

• 6:18Derrick Levasseur?

  Completely agree.

• 6:19Stephanie Harlowe?

  If you're a person with two brain cells to rub together and make a spark, whether or not you fall on one side or the other, you can admit that New York City is out of control with crime and it's been steadily getting worse. And, and we're gonna discuss it for shortly tonight, but just even the subway, I won't ride the subway anymore. And I used to not feel completely safe. I never feel completely safe anywhere, but at least I knew if I like kept my wits about me and was like looking around. There's, there's always strange things happening in New York, especially in the subway tunnels and on the subway. It's kind of part of its charm. It is no longer charming. When people are being set on fire for, at this point, no reason whatsoever, and there's never a good reason

• 7:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  to set somebody on fire, but it appears, when you're watching the video, they, these people did not know each other, right? This woman was sleeping, um, she's got like a blanket on her, she's got a lot of clothes around her, and he's just looking at her, and then he walks up and casually sets her ablaze, and then walks off the train, walks across, because the train's idle, so it's just sitting there with the doors open, walks across to a bench, sits on the bench, and calmly watches her burn.

• 7:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Six, you know what, yeah.

• 7:31Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Was she homeless?

• 7:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  They haven't really said it, but they did say she had a lot of, she had a blanket on her, she had a lot of clothing around her.

• 7:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Or like she was staying warm, she was trying to stay warm.

• 7:40Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, she was sleeping.

• 7:41Derrick Levasseur?

  And you see this a lot, right?

• 7:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  A lot.

• 7:43Derrick Levasseur?

  With the homeless population, the assaults that happen on the homeless population because they're an easy target, they're out there, they're susceptible to this type of stuff.

• 7:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  I see, I've, I've seen a lot of, of homeless, the homeless population assault other people. I've seen a lot of random people assault the homeless population. It's not a good scene, no matter what way you look at it.

• 8:00Derrick Levasseur?

  Happens everywhere too, not just New York, but that, that is something that even out here, you see.

• 8:05Stephanie Harlowe?

  Not everywhere, but.

• 8:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Well, not everywhere, but I will say, it's not just specific to New York, where you have homeless people being injured. In fact, we were talking before we recorded about another incident that just recently happened in North Carolina, where someone was set on fire again.

• 8:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, the same month, uh, December, yeah.

• 8:21Derrick Levasseur?

  And this also isn't about bashing New York. I will, to your point, I'm not from New York, but I was filming for a while there when I was filming crime feed every single week, and I'm someone who has been around this shit for a long time in my profession, and even as a six foot, you know, bigger person.

• 8:38Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hey, you're six foot four, don't.

• 8:40Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm six one, six one.

• 8:42Stephanie Harlowe?

  Same thing.

• 8:42Derrick Levasseur?

  But, but that said, I, I definitely am watching my back in there, and, and, and New York is one of the few states where I don't carry my firearm, because the laws are so specific there, and, um, Now it's in Rhode Island as well, not to dive into the weeds, but their capacity for their magazines. Not all my magazines were legal in New York. And from what I had been told from colleagues, even if you're former law enforcement, if you are not abiding by their carry laws, even though there's like a federal law, which is the Leosa law, you could still be arrested for it. So I just never wanted to risk it. And so I wouldn't carry in New York and I always felt a little vulnerable when I was walking the streets or taking the train to get to one place to another.

• 9:23Derrick Levasseur?

  And when I'd have my family come visit, I was very strict about the fact that I didn't want them taking the train. I wanted them using Uber.

• 9:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  A hundred percent, which it's very expensive, right?

• 9:34Derrick Levasseur?

  It can get expensive. Yeah. But so, yes, it's, it's tough. It's tough out there in New York City right now. It's a very populated city. There's a lot of crime going on and, and probably not enough police officers.

• 9:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  That's bad. And I, I'm from New York, so I will talk shit all day. That city was, was, it used to be my favorite city in the world and it was magical. And it's just, I don't even recognize it anymore. And yeah, there are not enough police officers because there was a huge push in the past years to defund police officers and police, you know, stations all over. Look what's happening in LA. They, they defunded the police. They took funding away from the police. They also changed laws to make certain shoplifting under certain amounts, not a felony anymore. They just changed back. I don't know if you saw that now, because it used to be if you shoplifted and you stole something under $950, it would not be a felony.

• 10:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  And then at that point, police officers weren't even arresting most people. They were just standing there and watched them loot these stores because it was like, what's going to happen? I'm going to arrest them. They're going to get a misdemeanor if that slap on the wrist, be released. They're going to do it again. Now they've changed it back to a felony because it's gotten so bad that stores are shutting down all over Los Angeles, like chains of stores, Whole Foods and things like that, because it's just not worth it for them to stay open anymore and it's ludicrous. So I think that it's time for cities like New York. To kind of follow suit on that now. I mean, if LA can do it, New York certainly can and should.

• 11:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Agreed. One more thing about cops, just not only not enough, but I'll also say, and this may be an example of it, we have to raise the qualifications and the standards that we're using for hiring police officers. It's abysmal at this point, and it's not, it's just not a New York issue. I'm seeing it all over the country, right here in my home state of Rhode Island. Some of these people that have badges, Stephanie, it's scary.

• 11:34Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, and Michael Proctor, so.

• 11:37Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, Mass. State Police is very hard to get on to, which is even scarier, but just local law enforcement, what I'm seeing out there, not saying I was the best, but man, it used to be difficult to become a cop. And what I'm seeing now, not only what I'm seeing, but also from what I'm hearing from colleagues that are in it right now, the qualifications, because the lack of people applying for.

• 11:59Stephanie Harlowe?

  Lack of candidates, because it's a, it's become an incredibly dangerous job.

• 12:03Derrick Levasseur?

  It, it used to be like you needed a, a college degree, and you couldn't have any criminal record, and now it's like, well, if you haven't had a misdemeanor in the last three years, you know, you could still apply. It's like, listen, if you shoplifted before, and, or you stole something, or you sold drugs, how can you in good conscience go out there and arrest someone for the same crime, even if you've already did your part? I mean, some may argue like you should be, that people should be allowed to, you know, make right of their wrongs, but we're expecting the best of the best in law enforcement. And, you know, I don't want criminals now becoming cops, because if they're willing to bend their ethics before, they're capable of doing it again. And those are the same people that are responsible for taking away your freedoms. So, that's a scary

• 12:47Derrick Levasseur?

  thing to me. These are supposed to be top-notch human beings, and as we have seen over the years, that, that's not the case.

• 12:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, corruption and bad apples have always existed in law enforcement since the dawn of time, you know?

• 13:01Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 13:01Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's fine. And we know that there, for a long time, those police officers who would protect criminal organizations in return for, you know, bribes and things like that, we know. But it just seems so widespread and rampant now that it's almost like staggering. It's like, what are we doing here? What are we doing?

• 13:19Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm not even talking to that level. I'm talking just like the level of complacency.

• 13:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, just like, just like you're not that smart and you're not that good at your job. And like, this dude's walking by and like, oh, another person on fire? Like, I gotta deal with this today? It's Christmas time. Yeah, they, they don't want to deal with it.

• 13:35Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, they just, they don't, they, they're there to collect the paycheck. And I don't know what this guy was doing. Like I said, there might be an explanation for it. I don't know what that would be. But just in general, um, and I hate that, that's what this episode became, but it's, we both kind of just went on the tangent. But no, overall, not liking what I'm seeing as a former law enforcement officer, we need change. And I do feel like the pendulum is swinging a little bit, but we need a lot, it's gotta go a lot more. It's gotta go a lot more. We gotta raise the standards, folks.

• 14:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Mm-hmm. So let's give you the facts of the case.

• 14:06Derrick Levasseur?

  Yes.

• 14:06Stephanie Harlowe?

  Before we get too far off stray.

• 14:07Derrick Levasseur?

  Unfortunately.

• 14:09Stephanie Harlowe?

  On Monday, December 23rd, so this was the day after the incident, 33-year-old Sebastian Zapata Khalil was charged with first and second degree murder and first degree arson. Now, surveillance video of the horrific incident, like I said, it shows Zapata Khalil sitting on a bench and watching his victim burn as police officers responded. The NYPD has said that investigators on the scene initially thought the fire had been set by accident because they noticed that the victim had liquor bottles around her. I don't know why it matters if it was on accident or intentionally, someone's on fire, you dumb asses. But anyways, after reviewing surveillance video from inside the subway car, law enforcement noticed the assailant sitting across from the victim, who as we said, was asleep when she was attacked.

• 14:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  The video showed Sebastian approach her, light her clothes on, on fire, as well as a blanket that she had over her. Then he exited the train, sat down on a bench, watched as she burned. CNN reports that Deberina appeared to have some mobility issues. There was a walker found at the scene. She had a lot of clothes and fabric around her, which police officials believe helped accelerate the fire. Now Sebastian is a Guatemalan citizen. He entered the United States illegally sometime within the past six years, according to CNN, and reportedly Border Patrol encountered him in Sonita, Arizona on June 1st, 2018, at which point he was returned to Guatemala six days later. But then at some point, on an unknown date and at an unknown location, he re-entered the US. He was not arrested at

• 15:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  the scene of his crime. He fled the scene eventually, I guess, after the show was done for him. But the police released a picture, pictures of him from surveillance, like screenshots, and he was recognized by three high school-aged New Yorkers who called the police. And when he was apprehended, Zapata Khalil had a lighter in his pocket. They keep saying this, by the way, in articles, like, "He had a lighter in his pocket." To me, that's like, okay, I hope you have more than that, you know? But lots of people have lighters in their pocket. But Eric Adams, who was somehow the mayor of New York City, I don't know how this happened, he's not, he's not the best, in my opinion.

• 16:13Derrick Levasseur?

  He's too busy doing perp walks with Luigi Mangione.

• 16:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah, too busy doing that, and he's, he does some other things. I don't know if you know, but they're investigating him for a bunch of other stuff now. But anyways, Eric Adams is like, "Listen, guys, it's not that bad." Because everyone was like, "Yo, the subways are horrendous. Like, do something." And he's like, "No, no, no. It's actually not that bad. Like, we've had a great year for crime on the subway, but like, yeah, these horrible things that are happening are overshadowing our success in 2024 with transit crime." And he said that, he said, quote, "We are doing the job on bringing down the numbers, but as I say over and over, and I said in 2022, New Yorkers must feel safe. People are

• 17:00Stephanie Harlowe?

  seeing and feeling what they're reading. So our success is overshadowed," end quote. "I hate politicians with a burning passion, okay? We don't want to hear this right now, Eric Adams. All right? What people who live in New York City want to hear is, this is horrendous." I understand your outrage. I too, as a human being and a New Yorker, am outraged. And as my job as mayor, and a former police officer, by the way, okay? A former police officer, Eric Adams, my job as a human and as the mayor of your great city is to make this city a place you deserve to live, and I will do everything I can. Not to be like, "We've been doing a really good job and you're not giving us enough credit." No one wants to hear that shit right now, dude. I'm disgusted about it.

• 17:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm disgusted that this is his response, honestly. He should be saying, "You're absolutely right. It's out of control, and we're gonna do what we can to fix it." But now you've got, you know, they're coming up with all these other... I guess there's been six incidents on the subway that were pretty, pretty bad. The arson's slaying tipped subway murders to 10, I'm sorry, not six, 10 this year, doubling the number of murders in 2023 and matching a 25-year-high reached in 2022. So Eric Adams is like, "It really was bad in 2022. 2023 was a little bit better. 2024, not as good as 2023, but trust me, we're trying our best."

• 18:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  And I guess other attacks were also at high levels. One person got pushed in front of a train in Manhattan, actually shortly after Adams' press conference, so this is not something that's going to stop. And once again, like I said, if you keep getting up there as the politician, as the leader of the city, and saying, "Hey, you know, we're doing our best here, like, you're really not giving us credit for all the great things we've done," instead of saying, "But within no uncertain terms, anyone who commits crimes like this on the subway or anywhere else in New York City will be prosecuted to the highest degree of the law. Watch yourself. Don't do it. Don't do it." That's the message that he should be sending to the people who want to commit these violent crimes against innocent people who are doing nothing but minding their own business.

• 19:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Eric Adams' message out of his stupid mouth should be, "Don't. Don't, because we'll come for you." But instead, he's protecting himself, his image, the job that he's done, and the job that the NYPD has done. No one wants to hear that. What do you think, Derek?

• 19:29Derrick Levasseur?

  So with this case... The reason why I believe it's so prevalent in the news is for a couple of things and we've already talked about some of it. For one, you talked about New York City, not just New York and as a whole, but New York City specifically and how the crime's out of control there. I don't think anybody would dispute that. It's pretty rough in that area and there's some things that need to change. And we talked about the issues as to why that may be. Well, one, it's some of the policies that are in place when it comes to people who commit crime, but it's also the level of quality we have with those officers in that area. And that's not just a New York City problem. That's a country problem, which we've also talked about. We got to raise the standards. We got to raise the qualifications. Then that and that kind of plays into the visual

• 20:12Derrick Levasseur?

  that we had of Debrina actually burning on camera and a police officer with his back to her. It's just a terrible look. It's just a terrible look and it's kind of a microcosm for how people are viewing law enforcement, specifically in areas like New York City right now. It's really, really bad. And there needs to be change immediately. And I agree with everything you said as far as how Eric Adams handled it. And I do feel like Eric Adams is a typical politician. He speaks out of both sides of his mouth. Like I said, there was something and we're not even talking about it tonight, but something that really pissed me off is these perp walks that they're doing with Luigi Mangione, where they have everyone and their brother walking behind him. Listen, this guy doesn't have superpowers. He doesn't need 30 guys walking with him. It's

• 20:55Stephanie Harlowe?

  all for show. He's not like an X-Man.

• 20:57Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he's not like, he's not freaking Thor. He's not gonna rip out of his chains. That's Superman. So the fact that all these people are walking with him, they're just trying to get their shine. It's all for self-serving purposes. There's no need for the mayor of New York City to be walking with Luigi Mangione. There's no reason.

• 21:16Stephanie Harlowe?

  Exactly. Enough. He's been caught. Move on.

• 21:19Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, he's been caught. Move on. It's not, you know, you could have maybe prevented something like this by having, you know, better laws, but different, different story for a different day. And then the final thing is the obvious thing, right? Sebastian being an illegal immigrant carrying out this horrific crime. Here's my outlook on it. I don't think anybody would argue with the, with the, the notion that we have enough criminals here that are here legally. We don't want Illegal people here committing crime as well. I think everyone agrees with that. The, the problem here, which I think even people on the right can't really defend is this person was deported. They did catch him. They did get him out of the country. He came back in.

• 22:02Derrick Levasseur?

  And that speaks to border policies, right? And having a better border so that these people aren't able to do that, which I'm fully in support of. We need to have a better border so that people are not coming across into our country without our knowing, especially if they're violent offenders. And I will say-

• 22:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  Especially if there's no record of them being here. Because even if he left fingerprints, if he left, he's not in the system.

• 22:26Derrick Levasseur?

  He could be in the system. So here's the thing, I've had-

• 22:29Stephanie Harlowe?

  He could be if he'd been arrested before.

• 22:31Derrick Levasseur?

  He could be in the system. What I had happen a lot is I would arrest someone for, you know, whatever it might be, domestic violence, could be a license, whatever it is. I fingerprint them and they tell me a certain name. And when I fingerprint them, it comes back to a different name. And then it also comes back to a different name. And what I find through the process of the investigation is that this person's been arrested four or five different times and given a different name every time. And they're able to get their own IDs, you know, fake IDs so that if, if you're not really paying attention, it can slip through the cracks. So then, what would happen, just in my anecdotal experience, we would call ICE and we would say, hey, we have this guy, pretty sure he's been arrested four or five times under different names.

• 23:14Derrick Levasseur?

  Uh, looks like he's someone who just keeps getting arrested and not showing up to court. What do you want us to do? We got him for a, uh, we got him for a domestic viol- domestic assault. It's a misdemeanor, right? They would go, yeah, let him go. Let him go with a, let him go with a court date. And I'd say, yeah, but no, I don't think you're following me. What I'm saying is he's already been arrested like four or five times. I have different names with the same fingerprints. Looks like he's been arrested-

• 23:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  He's not coming back for that court date, yeah.

• 23:40Derrick Levasseur?

  Maybe he has multiple warrants. He's, he's already proven he's not gonna show up. And they would say, I don't know what to tell you, brother. Nothing we can do. That's the policy. Let him go. And I, okay, no problem. Let him go with his arraignment date and sure enough-

• 23:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  He wouldn't, he wouldn't show up, of course.

• 23:54Derrick Levasseur?

  So that's a different thing though with this case. Like, that's obviously a actual problem. But this, but this one starts at the border, right? Like, they caught him. They sent him back and he just came over again. So it's a bigger issue which people are latching on to for their own political agendas, which I hate. But it is a real problem that we have to fix. I don't know.

• 24:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, don't forget, New York City was announced proudly. It was a sanctuary city.

• 24:15Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a sanctuary city. Rhode Island is, Rhode Island is as well. And so they're gonna go where they're, wherever they wanna go anyways. But, yeah, it's, it's something that is a much bigger issue. I just hate the fact that, you know, Debrina and others are, are, their tragedies are politicized. Because, truthfully, I don't believe most of the politicians give a shit about Debrina or these other people who have been victims of these crimes. And they're using it to benefit their own agenda, which is unfortunate, but I think at the root of the issue, most commonsensical people can agree, regardless of politics, we need to do better. We need to do better, and it's not just one thing. It's not just changing the law. It's not just hiring better, more capable law enforcement officers. It's not just having a better border.

• 25:00Derrick Levasseur?

  It's a lot of things that have to happen in order to accomplish this mission. And unfortunately, one thing being changed is not gonna do it.

• 25:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  Nobody can work together, by the way.

• 25:10Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, we have to work together. So, that's kinda how I feel about it. I don't think it's one thing, like, one switch that we can turn on or off that's gonna make it better. It's a lot of things that need to change. And I think most people, regardless of where you fall, we all, we all agree for the most part. We're, we're much more on the same page than we are divided. That's for sure. And we just gotta start using common sense and saying, okay, this is wrong. Let's fix it.

• 25:35Stephanie Harlowe?

  I have a question for you, and I want the viewers, if you're watching on YouTube, to weigh in as well. Does it, does it sometimes feel like politicians don't actually want to fix these problems? Because then it doesn't give them anything to publicly argue about and/or platform themselves on when they're running for election or reelection?

• 26:02Derrick Levasseur?

  Of course, that's the case. I wrote a book years ago about, and I wrote a whole chapter on liars. And one of the examples I gave was politicians and how they use certain things to support an agenda when they, and they present it as something where they're trying, they're noble and they're trying to make it right. I'm not painting all politicians as bad people. They're just very hard to trust. And I-

• 26:21Stephanie Harlowe?

  I absolutely am painting all politicians as bad people.

• 26:25Derrick Levasseur?

  You don't think there are any good politicians out there that come in to do the right thing?

• 26:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I think that-

• 26:29Derrick Levasseur?

  Stephanie.

• 26:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  I think that politics as a whole draws in the wrong type of person. And I think maybe like a hundred, hundreds of years ago, when they were setting up this system and they really had the, the right intentions. But that is assuming that everybody who's going into politics has the right intentions. And unfortunately, going into politics, you have people who are hungry for power, hungry for attention. And even if they do, and a lot of politicians who have left the public eye have said this, even I went in with the best intentions, I went in genuinely wanting change. And then I realized, that's not how the system worked. And that's not how it was set up. And so they either just join the

• 27:11Stephanie Harlowe?

  fray and become like that, or they just, they're done and they leave. And there's no positive change made, because every person who actually wants to make positive change is, is shown pretty, pretty soon off the bat. Like, that's not what you're here for. You're just here to scream at each other on CNN and Fox News and pretend you're doing things so that the American people can keep fighting amongst themselves and we can keep this whole two-party system thing going, where nobody ever knows what the hell is going on. It's, it's pretty bad, in my opinion. I think the whole thing needs to be burned down and built back up.

• 27:43Derrick Levasseur?

  Good luck with that.

• 27:44Stephanie Harlowe?

  I know, I know, I know.

• 27:46Derrick Levasseur?

  I mean, and I, we kind of got off the rails here. We're both guilty-

• 27:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  I'm about to live off the grid, okay?

• 27:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, for real. But, um, to bring it back to what we're talking about today, we definitely need change on a, on a, on a, on an individual level where we need administrators in these local cities and towns to take a, a look at their law enforcement officers, to look at the policies, the ordinances that are in place, to look at the local laws, and to deter people from committing this type of crime. As far as this specific issue with Sebastian-

• 28:23Derrick Levasseur?

  There's a lot of conversations around the border right now. I think even on both sides, people agree. I, I, I see it all the time. We both agree we need a stronger border. How do we implement that while still being fair to people and allowing this country to continue to thrive on what it's thrived for since the beginning of time, which is immigration, having people from other countries come in here and make this place better. So there's

• 28:45Stephanie Harlowe?

  I mean, my father, my father's an immigrant and like I respect him so much.

• 28:50Derrick Levasseur?

  So he's responsible for bringing you here?

• 28:52Stephanie Harlowe?

  Yeah.

• 28:52Derrick Levasseur?

  Jesus.

• 28:54Stephanie Harlowe?

  But I respect him so much because it's like you came here, you didn't know the language, you had nothing, you made, you turned yourself to a successful businessman. That is the American dream, right? So no, no one's saying immigrants are bad. We're saying violent criminals, whether you're in this country or outside the country are bad. We just don't want any more violent criminals because we've got our share to deal with here.

• 29:14Derrick Levasseur?

  We've got our fair share here. Exactly. We got, I mean, listen, a lot of these mass shooters, almost all of them, they're homegrown. They're homegrown. John, Johnny, Jimmy and Timmy are all from here. So let's fix that too. You know, we, and I think that's where the diversion.

• 29:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, that's, and that's also a mental health crisis thing.

• 29:31Derrick Levasseur?

  Right. There's, there's so much going on. We got our own problems. So taking on more is not, the glass is already full, right? The glass is already full.

• 29:39Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're, we're tired. We're at capacity.

• 29:41Derrick Levasseur?

  I do feel, I don't know, but I feel like there could be a change. I feel like there could be, with all these things happening now, I do feel like there's a different level that politicians are being held to, a different level of accountability, especially with social media and the ability to go and track, like for example, we're able to track politicians' trades in the market, right? And we're able to see how much money they're making and what

• 30:07Stephanie Harlowe?

  I don't think politicians should be allowed to trade in the market.

• 30:11Derrick Levasseur?

  Completely agree.

• 30:12Stephanie Harlowe?

  Hello?

• 30:13Derrick Levasseur?

  Completely agree. And I'm not going to call politicians because you're going to, it's going to sound like I'm on one side or the other, but.

• 30:18Stephanie Harlowe?

  I, I have a list of names right now in my head because I am very familiar with this issue, but politicians who.

• 30:23Derrick Levasseur?

  There's apps you can download that you will trade based on how they're trading.

• 30:28Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's horrible.

• 30:29Derrick Levasseur?

  And it's up like, you know, it's all in the green. It's all in the green. So for us not to believe that they have something that we don't know about.

• 30:36Stephanie Harlowe?

  It's called insider trading.

• 30:38Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, exactly. Is that what it's called?

• 30:41Stephanie Harlowe?

  It is. Martha Stewart went to prison for it, but nobody else will.

• 30:44Derrick Levasseur?

  It's bad. And so. Overall, thinking of Debrina, her family, her friends, anybody connected to this, thinking about the good people of New York City, because most people there are good people. And like you said, it was a beautiful city at one point.

• 30:56Stephanie Harlowe?

  Oh, my God.

• 30:57Derrick Levasseur?

  And I'm hoping it can get back there.

• 30:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  It was magic.

• 30:59Derrick Levasseur?

  I'm hoping it can get back there because I will say this, as much as we've talked negatively about it, and I do have a little bit more concern when I go there, there are still some amazing spots. Like, when I do bring my family out there, they love going to see the tree and, you know, during Christmas time and...

• 31:13Stephanie Harlowe?

  Historical sites, like for Golar, like you wouldn't believe, man, just Trinity Cemetery alone is, oh, I have goosebumps.

• 31:21Derrick Levasseur?

  Yeah, Central Park. Central Park is beautiful. If you've ever had the chance to go there, go.

• 31:24Stephanie Harlowe?

  The old brownstones, like, just knowing that they've been there for, yeah, centuries. It's just such a cool place. And New York City has some of the most incredibly illustrious history, and not even on the East Coast, in the country. And it's destroyed. It's destroyed. And honestly, I'm glad you have hope that things will change. I don't. So I'm just gonna, I'm gonna hold, I'm gonna hold out my hope, because I'm sick of being let down.

• 31:48Derrick Levasseur?

  I, I do believe that a couple things, changes in policy, procedure, laws, could start to, to really, it's gonna take years, but it could start to, again, swing things the other way. Sometimes you make a correction and you over-correct for something that's wrong, because there are problems with law enforcement. And stop and frisk was, it was, it was hairy. There needed to be some changes, but instead, they got rid of it altogether, which was the exact opposite. So there's different things that need to happen. We need to tinker with it. We need to find that happy medium, so that people are allowed to live their lives the way they want to live them. But also, we're protecting the people who need that protection. So I think this is just another classic example with this case of...

• 32:32Stephanie Harlowe?

  An overcorrection.

• 32:33Derrick Levasseur?

  Overcorrection and things not being the way they need to be. We need to do better. And I'm hoping that with these incidences occurring at the frequency they're occurring right now, there is some change and that the legislators are held accountable for what's gonna happen in the years to come. Any final words from you?

• 32:50Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I'm ready to dive in.

• 32:52Derrick Levasseur?

  I feel like the comments are gonna be popping on this one, because I hate talking politics, because we're not a political...

• 32:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  We're not talking politics. We're talking people.

• 33:01Derrick Levasseur?

  We're not, but we are. And you know how it is.

• 33:03Stephanie Harlowe?

  Well, I don't, I don't, I don't dabble in politics. I don't like or trust any politicians, therefore, none of them can hold sway over me. They're just hyped up influencers now, and I'm sick of them.

• 33:13Derrick Levasseur?

  We are a true crime channel. But true crime, crime, shouldn't say true crime, crime and politics go hand in hand.

• 33:22Stephanie Harlowe?

  They certainly do.

• 33:23Derrick Levasseur?

  A lot of the crimes that are occurring, not all of them, potentially could have been prevented by better policy.

• 33:30Stephanie Harlowe?

  You think?

• 33:31Derrick Levasseur?

  And better laws. So, and also better, better enforcement of those laws, right? We talk about it all the time. So it does go hand in hand. And although I try to separate the two, they do kind of, they do kind of cross pollinate a lot and it's almost impossible. So, love to hear the comments. Let us know what you think. Do we got this one wrong? Is New York the safest city in the country and we're just completely oblivious to it? We want to hear your thoughts. So on a positive note.

• 33:58Stephanie Harlowe?

  Is New York the safest city in the country?

• 34:01Derrick Levasseur?

  That was sarcasm. That was sarcasm. That was definitely sarcasm. Um, but we do wish everyone a happy new year. We have part six of the Karen Reed series coming up later this week. It'll be the sixth and final part. We're going to, we're going to wrap it up with some final theories that Stephanie's going to go over. And then we're going to give our final opinions on Karen Reed, John O'Keefe and this whole situation. So please make sure you subscribe, turn your notifications on, like the videos if you're watching on YouTube. And if you're on audio, I have seen an uptick in the comments. Keep them coming. If you take two seconds, leave a comment. If you're someone who's been listening to us for a long time, we'd appreciate a review.

• 34:43Derrick Levasseur?

  We're up around 9,000 reviews right now. I'd love to see us hit 10,000 in 2025. That'd be amazing.

• 34:47Stephanie Harlowe?

  That'd be awesome, yeah.

• 34:48Derrick Levasseur?

  There's a resolution. So that's my final words. Anything from you?

• 34:51Stephanie Harlowe?

  No, I'm good. I'm ready to dive in and finish up the Karen Reed and John O'Keefe case because it's hurting my brain.

• 34:59Derrick Levasseur?

  It's going to be a good one. Make sure you check that out. Everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you later this week. Have a good night.

• 35:04Stephanie Harlowe?

  Bye.