#463 Griffin Johnson on Building Generational Wealth

Griffin Johnson is one of the most famous TikTok stars on the planet. He recently has begun spending more time investing, along with creating companies and products. In this conversation, we discuss how Griffin built his audience, why he is interested in investing, how he makes money, the Gruen Gang, and how Griffin wants his career to play out. ======================= BlockFi provides financial products for crypto investors. Products include high-yield interest accounts, USD loans, and no fee trading. To start earning today visit: http://www.blockfi.com/Pomp ======================= Choice is a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ======================= The Rodman Law Group is dedicated to helping entrepreneurs realize their vision by helping them operate defensibly in sectors where laws and regulations haven’t caught up to the realities of the industry. The Rodman Law Group’s legal expertise combined with its understanding of blockchain technology makes it the ideal legal service provider for the industry. http://www.therodmanlawgroup.com/pomp

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Griffin Johnson is one of the most famous TikTok stars on the planet. He recently has begun spending more time investing along with creating companies and products. In this conversation, we discuss how Griffin built his audience, why he is interested in investing, how he makes money, the Gruen gang, and how Griffin wants his career to play out. I really enjoyed this conversation with Griffin, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is BlockFi. BlockFi provides financial products for crypto investors. They've got three products today that you can use.

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  The first is you can buy and sell crypto on their crypto exchange. The second is you can deposit crypto and take out a US dollar loan against your crypto collateral. And the third is that you can deposit crypto and earn up to 8.6% APW in an interest-bearing account. BlockFi will also be coming out with a fourth product, a Bitcoin Rewards credit card in Q1 of this year. The Bitcoin Rewards credit card is just like a regular credit card, but rather than earn cash back or airline miles, you'll actually get Bitcoin back. Think it's going to be a game changer. So go on over to blockfi.com/pomp and get signed up today. Blockfi.com/pomp. I'm an investor. I sit on the board. I'm a very happy user. And I think you'll really enjoy the financial products for crypto investors that BlockFi has built.

• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Blockfi.com/pomp. Next up is Choice, their new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you're listening to this, you're likely part of the 7.1 million Bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in it, but not Bitcoin. I was in that situation too. But now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Choice, a self-directed IRA product that allows you to buy Bitcoin and use tax-advantaged dollars while also holding the private keys. Go check them out at retirewithchoice.com/pomp. Again, retirewithchoice.com/pomp.

• 2:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Lastly is the Rodman Law Group. They are dedicated to helping entrepreneurs realize their vision by helping entrepreneurs operate defensively in sectors where laws and regulations haven't caught up to the realities of the industry. I've been investing in building companies for a long time, and I've learned one thing, you always need a good lawyer. That's why I'm excited about the Rodman Law Group. Not only have they been accepting Bitcoin and Ethereum for years for their services, but also they've moved some of their balance sheet into Bitcoin. So if you need a great lawyer that not only understands the law, but also understands the Bitcoin and crypto industry, you should go talk to the folks

• 2:46Anthony Pompliano?

  at the Rodman Law Group. If you use this link, therodmanlawgroup.com/pomp, again, therodmanlawgroup.com/pomp, you will get 50% off your first hour consultation and 5% off all legal services for a year. So if you need a great lawyer, go check out the Rodman Law Group, therodmanlawgroup.com/pomp, therodmanlawgroup.com/pomp. All right, let's get into this episode with Griffin. I hope you guys enjoy this one.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:48Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, guys. Bang, bang. Got a special treat. I've got Griffin Johnson here. What's going on, man?

• 3:54Anthony Pompliano?

  Dude, I, I know I've seen you a lot around with Bryce and doing you guys' thing on your podcast. I actually thought about wearing a wife beater. You know, I figured that might bring our chemistry up a little bit because you're used to it with Bryce. But yeah, dude, I'm excited to be here, man. Listen, you're, don't lie to the people. When we first started, you were gonna do without a shirt on. And I said, hey, you could do that if you want, but.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  It passes with my audience, but you know, a lot of these guys here, they either A, their kids know me and they think I'm a doofus, or B, they have no clue who I am. So, you know, I figured I should probably present myself a little better.

• 4:33Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Let's go through your background. You have one of the largest followings on TikTok today, but where'd you grow up and kind of how did you get into creating content on the internet?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, you know, I grew up right on the border of Indiana and Illinois.

• 4:51Speaker 02

  Pretty much central, but considered south, doesn't really matter. But, uh, yeah, I didn't grow up with, uh, you know, a lot of money. My dad is, uh, he works in a factory. My mom ended up going back to school for nursing. So I always had to hustle, which kind of brought in my entrepreneur, my entrepreneurship. And, uh, I went into college and I was in nursing school at the time. And, you know, I played sports and baseball, all of that jazz. But, uh, my second semester of my sophomore year, I, uh, I was in a class, all girls nursing. You know how it goes. And they all do the social media stuff and I was never really into it. Posted maybe twice a year on Instagram, total bro, thought it was stupid.

• 5:36Speaker 02

  Laughed at all the social media creators and YouTubers that the girls would drool over. And, uh, a bunch of girls in my class were making TikToks and I was in them and they would do well because I'm in my scrubs and they're like, oh, who's the nurse guy? Who's the nurse guy? And I was growing on Instagram like crazy and I was like, what is going on? And I guess they were putting my handle on there. And it wasn't until I saw a girl, literally as we were studying for an exam, went live on TikTok and made like a hundred bucks. I was like, are you kidding me? So I tried it out, posted a video, it blew up. I woke up the next day with like 20,000 followers.

• 6:16Anthony Pompliano?

  What was the video?

• 6:18Speaker 02

  It was just me and my scrubs and I was in class, sitting there and said, got my phone taken away for this. And it was just me sitting there. Got like a hundred thousand likes, blew up and I was like, alright. And from then on, I just saw the easy money. I didn't have an actual idea of being a content creator, social media kid, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, I just, I literally just wanted the revenue from the streams because I was a broke college kid. I worked in a factory every summer to have enough money to get through the school year because I couldn't work because of my school and nursing and stuff. So yeah, that was my whole goal was to just keep making videos and I was trying to grow my followers to get that revenue off the streams.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  And three months later, I think I had a hundred something K, went to one of the social media events because I met some kids and they, you know, one of them is Anthony that lives with me now. And yeah, I just went on tour, met the boys. After that, met Bryce, we made the Sway House and that's the short form for basically how I got here.

• 7:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And so when you talk about making money off the streams, most people listening to this are going to have no clue what that means. So explain how people get paid for the actual streams.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  So how it is, you, you know, there's a For You page. So if your video is going viral, it gets on the For You page.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  And then a live stream is, there's a live feature on TikTok itself on the platform, just like an Instagram live. You just click a button, you go live, people can join in. And basically if your video especially is on the For You page, people will see that you're live, they can click in or just your fans. And basically it's just a donation system. So there's like different levels, like a dollar, two dollars, five, 10, 15, 20, 50. And people can send you money and then you basically give incentives like, you know, I'll put you in a drawing for my merch. Or you can literally just sit there and do nothing and people will actually donate just to like, you know, laugh and enjoy the content.

• 8:21Speaker 02

  But yeah, and then TikTok holds it in their bank for a couple of days, you know, and people, you can only draw out a thousand dollars. So basically TikTok makes bank off of interest just by having it there. So it's, that's kind of why they do it and how it works for the creator.

• 8:38Anthony Pompliano?

  When you go live right now, how much money would you make?

• 8:43Speaker 02

  Depending on the time, obviously, my standard is usually 20 minutes and I'll make anywhere from like, you know, 1500 to 2 grand.

• 8:53Anthony Pompliano?

  You realize that's ridiculous, right?

• 8:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's absolutely insane, but I actually quit doing it as I became more successful. Just because like in the beginning, I needed it. Now I kind of leave it for the other creators that, you know, need that because it really helped my career and helped me out a lot and just in life in general. So I don't really do it anymore. Some people say you should. I feel kind of dirty, you know, being successful and having my own other streams and revenue and still taking money from, you know, 12 to 10 to 16 year old girls that are probably using their dad's credit card. So I kind of quit doing it, but it's definitely a really good way to make money.

• 9:36Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you feel bad taking it from the girls or from their dads?

• 9:41Speaker 02

  Um, both. For one, I feel bad for the girls, mainly because I'm not really that cool. So why are you sending me money to sit there? And then I also feel bad for the dads because, you know, they're going to work just so their daughter can pay some douchebag on the internet to talk to the camera. So, you know, it goes both ways.

• 10:02Anthony Pompliano?

  That's fair. So I've talked to Bryce about it, but I know most people in the audience won't understand how you guys are making money outside of just those streams. So let's just kind of walk through like the world of Griffin in terms of what else do you do with your time? It's like, maybe like, let's go through a day. So what time do you wake up? What do you do all day? And then how do you make money?

• 10:21Speaker 02

  So, um, I call this early because it's early in social media, but I'm usually up like awake at like 8:30, out of bed, ready for the day at nine, which is early in our world. Probably not for people listening to this. They're probably like, wow, you're lazy. But, um, yeah, that's kind of how this industry works is later, a lot of kids don't wake up until noon. So, um, start calls at 10, which is, um, you know, usually later on the east coast time. So sometimes I wake up earlier, seven, I'll have calls at seven. Sometimes if they're foreign, I've had calls at like midnight.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Which is all Western time, obviously. But uh, yeah, so I wake up, calls start at 10. I'm usually at Bryce's house, the vest on house where he records. By like nine, nine, like nine fifteen, nine twenty. And then uh, we sit down, we have our, every day is scheduled out on a Google calendar. It's usually consists of anywhere from like four to eight calls. Um, usually at least one sit down meeting. A day where someone comes in or we got dinner, especially before everything got locked down. Um, and then every day around like 11 to noon. It's just a time blocked out for filming TikToks and getting all your content posting on Instagram, whatever it is.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  And then um, on Mondays and Thursdays now, they are basically like designated film days for YouTube, podcasts. You know, you and Bryce do Tuesdays because that fits you better. Um, but for me, obviously I wouldn't do it the same day. So yeah, it's, it's very structured. I think people think we kind of just sit on our ass and like. Um, just go with the flow and like post TikToks all day. Definitely not it. Um. You know, it's, it's very structured and we, that's how we get into all these investments and. You know, we've really pivoted out from being these shitheads that got their water and power shut off to now angel investors and.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Um, I actually just became a consultant advisor for like Global, which is one of the biggest esports teams in the entire world. Um, as well as, you know, we got Triller and some other things working in the mix. So. Yeah, it's um, basically calls, content. Um, and obviously, you know, trips and stuff come up, but that's the normal day.

• 12:40Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And uh, I'm not just saying it to you. Obviously people know that uh, I've been spending all this time with Bryce, but like. You guys do work your asses off and, and I agree with you that most people don't realize uh, kind of how structured it is. I remember the first time he told me about like the content days. I was like, what do you mean? You block off two days? He's like, yeah, like that's all we do is we just, you know, ideate, you know, film, edit, like do all this kind of stuff. And when you look at the content. Uh, output that you guys do, like you have to dedicate a lot of time to it, right? It just takes the time. When you're doing all this stuff, where does the money come from? So uh, are you getting paid brand deals? Are you doing, you know, YouTube revenue, merchandise? Like where, where do you kind of think of your income from coming from?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Right, so this is like a really, really highly asked question. And it always changes a little bit because things come up and, you know. But I would say it's very, very dynamic and depends on the creator. So this isn't for like, you know, Bryce has different answers than I do. But um, I'll give you the basis. So a lot of creators, they have YouTube. So Google AdSense, you get paid, you you get basically a CPM. I don't know if people know how that works. But um, per thousand views, um, you usually get a set dollar amount. That's given to you by YouTube six, seven. It's usually in that six, seven range. Um, so there's that. It comes in every month. You get paid once a month by that.

• 14:06Speaker 02

  Um, you obviously can do your, a lot of people do the TikTok live streams or, um, you know, now there's a feature on Instagram. You can do that, which is really good money. I mean, if you're making a thousand dollars a day, you can make, you know, thirty grand a month off of just that. Uh, obviously you got brand deals. So those, for anyone that doesn't know what a brand deal is, um, you can get paid from anything from using a sound on TikTok to doing a, you know, a promotion on an Instagram feed post where you shout out whatever company and tag them. Um, those are usually pretty nice and pay well. And uh,

• 14:40Anthony Pompliano?

  How much do those pay? Like, like, or how do you think about, you know, if somebody came to you and said, hey, I want you to do this? How do you think about pricing it?

• 14:47Speaker 02

  So for me, it it it comes into a lot of things. Is it static? Which means, you know, does it, are you keeping it up forever? Um, is it a couple of days? And then I I know you've probably seen these before. You have to follow like everyone someone's following or whatever. Those are super like non-organic and they look literally ridiculous on your page. So I try to steer away, but if, you know, the money's right, obviously. Um, if someone asks me to do those, it's going to be more. I would say for, let's just say midline of all the Swayboys, five hundred thousand likes. Uh, you should probably get about. You know, fifty K for a post, I would say is like a rough number depending on what they want.

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Um, and for someone that gets five hundred thousand likes, that's obviously like two million. Um, you know, people engaged with it at least minimum, you know, one point eight to two million. So if you think about it, social media creators are kind of um, underpaid in the eyeball sense for like, you know, marketing on like TV. I don't, I can't name a single show really anymore on TV that gets two million um, eyeballs at once. At least there's. So, um.

• 15:57Anthony Pompliano?

  So you have the brand deals. What else?

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, um. Let's see, I'm trying to think, um.

• 16:05Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you have merch?

• 16:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's a big point. I don't do merch. That's why I didn't um, come to the top of my head. But yeah, merch is definitely, you know, Bryce says his brand and there's a lot of creators that build brands off of themselves that sell well.

• 16:19Anthony Pompliano?

  Why don't you do merch?

• 16:21Speaker 02

  The reason I don't do merch anymore is because it's a really oversaturated market. Um, think about how many hoodies you have in your closet and how many of them you actually wear. Um, and you know, I have literally, I'm looking at twenty hoodies that are all really cool. Brand sent them to me. They were free, whatever. Uh, probably won't ever wear them, not because they're not cool, but just because like everyone has a million hoodies and T-shirts nowadays. Uh, and not only that, it's just a really hard market because every single creator, it's like not a creative idea. Every single creator is like, oh, I got a hundred thousand followers. Oh, here's my merch. Link my teespring. Um, so yeah, it's just a market that's like, the margins aren't great. You're talking like,

• 17:06Speaker 02

  you know, you're selling a hoodie for fifty dollars and by the time you pay for shipping and everything, you're making like, I don't know, six bucks a hoodie.

• 17:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Wha- what's the most ridiculous thing anyone uh, that you know, kind of in this influencer content creator world has done for money?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Uh, I would say probably, um, OnlyFans. Uh, and the reason I say that is like, OnlyFans can bring in like, a lot of money, don't get me wrong. But they like, they fake like, they're putting like, an explicit picture on there. And they think they're gonna like, get everyone. And then basically, all it does is everyone tries to refund their money and then it takes OnlyFans out. That's just one example. I've seen people, uh, fake being in the hospital. I've seen people like fake breaking up. Like, it's just crazy stupid shit that I don't even understand. So you really can't predict these creator kids because they're literally wild. So.

• 18:10Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. How do you guys come up with the ideas for the videos? Like, like you, Bryce, Josh, except like, the videos that you guys are producing are, uh, usually have some level of entertainment to them. And so how do you guys come up with those ideas?

• 18:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, um, it, it does become a routine. Um, honestly, like, once you get in this space, you kind of see things and know things that work. And you learn from other people and kind of tweak it. So I would say a lot of our ideas come from other people in the past or trends that are working at the time. And then we just literally ramp it up, make it bigger, spice it up, um, add our own twist to it. But a lot of it is just being involved, um, in kind of the space and seeing what other people are doing and what has worked in the past or what's currently working. Um, and obviously, sometimes, you know, things just come to you on the fly. It's not like we just sit, I don't think anyone really just sits down for hours and like thinks of a video.

• 19:07Speaker 02

  Um, it's just kind of one of those things where you just roll with what's going that week and think about it on the fly.

• 19:13Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you think of kind of this creator space today, what's like the average kid make, right? Are we talking?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Not, not as much as you think.

• 19:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. So, so help me understand like what, like what's the most somebody makes and what's kind of the average?

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Okay, so I'm just gonna say, it's a little bit different. It depends. There's so many factors in social media that kind of mediate how much money you make. So, um, I have 20 million followers across all platforms. If I only did brand deals and I grinded live streams, I'm talking like, every day. I would say I'd probably make 500K in a year.

• 19:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Which, you know. That's not shabby, but like you think someone with 20 million followers, they're making like $10 million. Um, but that also is because of Sway, our previous brand. Um, and we're kind of fixing that. But that's also why we pivoted and it forced us to create our own companies and build our own brands. And that's why I'm literally here talking to you right now is because we can't do brand deals. I would say the average, um, for the average creator, let's say 2 million followers on TikTok. And let's say they're completely clean. I'd say they're making maybe like 15, 20 K a month.

• 20:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. Now, e- explain, cause again, most people aren't going to know all of the, uh, I'll call it the drama or the controversy. Uh, when you're talking about a clean creator versus a non-clean creator and the sway stuff. It helped people understand kind of, uh, from a brand's perspective, why are they unwilling to either work with you guys? Or pay you less compared to a quote, quote, clean creator?

• 20:53Speaker 02

  Right. So someone that's clean is like, you know, I wouldn't even say cussing, like those are like extreme Disney kids. Um, but it's like, you know, with sway, we've, we've drank on camera, um, vaped on camera, you know, whatever. Um, been drunk on camera and obviously there's been fights and, you know, the boys got in trouble in the past. Um, some legal trouble and stuff. So that's like, that's really extreme bad.

• 21:22Anthony Pompliano?

  The party?

• 21:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, the part, yeah, the party with the power. Um, I don't even think that got as much negative backlash as people think. People are obviously.

• 21:32Anthony Pompliano?

  It's the only thing that people that I talk to, when they're like, oh, who are these guys? And I'll be, you know, I'll try to explain it, whatever. And then somebody in the group will always be like, oh, that's the kid who got the power shut off, right? That's the group that got the power shut off. And I'm like, yeah, they don't care that it got shut off, right? Cause they understand that young kids are going to party, whatever. But that's like the one moment where I think you guys like definitely arrived more than you thought you did.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Well, like the thing is, I honestly think it's kind of, I get it from a brand perspective because it's like, if we work with sway, what are they going to do? Like, are they going to get a fight? Are they going to tarnish our name? Um, but honestly, if I, and this isn't being like prejudiced at all, this is just like, if I were a brand and I wasn't like Disney PG, obviously, and didn't have like that, um,

• 22:20Speaker 02

  One thing that I that I've seen is a lot of those clean creators do not convert at all because brands think that they are paying to get all of these views and all these fans. But in reality, all of their followers just follow their content. They could give a crap less. Like they'll have 20 million on TikTok and they'll get 50,000 likes on Instagram. I get more than that on my backup account, my third backup account. My dog gets more likes than that on Instagram. It's like, it's crazy because, you know, I get it in a sense, but at the same time, it's like, people don't

• 22:58Anthony Pompliano?

  It's about conversion. It's conversion.

• 22:59Speaker 02

  It's like, what are you gonna pay for, for people to see it? Like, okay, I guess that, I mean, that is a strategy, but it's just crazy to me. And I don't think a lot of people understand the actual dynamics of social media and how many things you have to look at when you're doing a brand deal or you're working with a kid that is in the social media space.

• 23:20Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Before we get into the business and investing stuff, how old are you?

• 23:24Speaker 02

  I'm 21.

• 23:25Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. At 21, you're rich and famous, right? For all intents and purposes, I got to imagine that you get hit up by all kinds of ridiculous, crazy people, all kinds of girls DMing you, etc. What is your life like? And if you talked like a friend from home that you grew up with who like doesn't understand how this all happened, how do you explain to them your life compared to, you know, three years ago, four years ago?

• 23:52Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, you know, I would humbly say that I'm pretty rooted from my, from my hometown. I'm still friends with a bunch of, you know, so I think most creators, you know, have drifted a lot from, you know, from where they started. And I've definitely changed in my ways. I would say the biggest pivot is me actually thinking about others using me because I'm from a small town, you know, farm. I work in factories. It's like, if someone needs help, you're there. It's like, yo, my cow's out. Can you come? It's not like, yo, are you trying to use me? It's like a community of people that are like, that help each other. I'm like, you know, there's guys that would plow my driveway.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Um, when it's snow or like whatever, and you don't have to pay them. You just like get them back later. Uh, so one of the biggest things is, is how ruthless people are. Um, and I struggle with this really bad because I'm such a helpful person. Um, I want to help people and, you know, do my best to be a respectful dude. Uh, really learn fast that that doesn't work in LA. People don't give a shit. Um, there's not a lot of morals. So that's a really big, uh, struggle with me. And I feel like, you know, a lot of common people, and especially either from the South or Midwest can definitely, um, relate to that because I never saw any business growing up. There was no really businesses. My dad didn't know anything about business or anyone in my family for that matter.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  So, uh, that was a really big struggle that I had. And then obviously there's the parties, the girls, the temptations. You know, growing up, it was like, yo, bonfire in the cornfield, like, let's go Saturday boy, Bush Light, you know? It, it wasn't like anything crazy. Now you got like, you go in my DMs, I get a thousand DMs a day from all these like, models and girls with their asses out and everything.

• 25:47Anthony Pompliano?

  Are you responding?

• 25:49Speaker 02

  I used to, I really did. Uh, when we were in our old sway house and really on our bullshit, I would go through and respond. Of course, I was trying to talk to girls. Um, luckily ended up getting, um, a girlfriend and slowed down for a really long time. And then afterwards, uh, you know, there's a bunch of drama and I ended up, you know, Snapchatting a girl. And after that whole drama went down and I got cooked on the internet, like genuinely no shit. I learned my lesson. I barely even look at my DMs anymore. But it is absolutely crazy because sometimes I catch myself talking. It's like, dude, I hate when girls like just send me their asses and I can't respond. And my friends are like, that's never happened to me, dude.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Like, um, so yeah, that's, that's definitely a thing. And then the last thing I would say is just, um, always being aware in public. So, um, I'm just going to be straight up my lingo from being in Indiana. Like, you know, I was really insensitive to a lot of things that here in LA are like really big problems. So that was the first one is having a microscope and obviously. You know, checking my language and checking the things that I do because um obviously I'm not from a culture that thinks about a lot of things like that. And uh just making sure like I'm always on my shit. Like when I'm driving my car, you know, I got caught one time picking my nose.

• 27:12Speaker 02

  And it's like, who really gives a shit, you know? But at the same time, it's like, really, man? And uh that's definitely one of the biggest changes is like even being out with my family when they visit LA. It's like, my family doesn't want to be like seen like that. So it's just

• 27:29Anthony Pompliano?

  What do they think? What do they think about? What do they think about all that?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  Uh, in my dad's words, he said, well, feller, I don't really know what you're doing, but it's working. So they don't really have social media. My dad has like one of those industrial smartphones. It's like works at negative 10 seconds um, you know, per minute. So it's uh and my brother, he he's a working guy. He's going to trade school for lineman um to be a lineman and my mom like she hears things more, obviously because she's a lot more emotional and uh she doesn't really check my socials that much. Uh but her friends at work, she's a nurse now. She just recently went to nursing

• 28:13Speaker 02

  school, finished that. So she her friends, you know, they gossip and it's like the workroom and did you see Griffins with this girl? You know, and she'll text me about it, but

• 28:25Speaker 02

  other than that, they don't they don't get worked up. Um, they don't really care that much if I'm famous or if I'm homeless. So

• 28:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I love it. Uh, let's talk about business and investing. Uh,

• 28:36Speaker 02

  Let's get into it.

• 28:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Along with the rest of the guys have really kind of uh taken this hard right and started angel investing a lot, starting companies. How did you just think about like why? Right? Like, why are you interested in this stuff?

• 28:48Speaker 02

  Right. So like I mentioned briefly earlier, you know, growing up, I hustled um just because I didn't have a lot of money. I definitely wasn't like, you know, homeless, but uh we were just a normal low, middle class, middle class family. So if I wanted anything or if I wanted anything extra, I would have to work extra hard to get money from the kids that did have money. So whatever it was, like I used to hustle, like, um, you know, make sports bets, like I'll beat you in this basketball game, or it started off kind of like that. And, um, you know, as I got into the social media stuff, I didn't really understand like how it could be used,

• 29:30Speaker 02

  but I've always had an interest in business. So, um, you know, just making that pivot out because we didn't get any brand deals, like I said, because we were shitheads. Um, we had to find an alternative. And then as soon as we started doing things and starting our own brands, I, I literally just, it clicked with me. I fell in love and I'm like, wow, this, this makes sense. Like if I want to make money, that's actually gonna, you know, create generational wealth and set me up so I don't have to work. Um, you know, I had no other choice. So I kind of fell into it, already kind of loved it and had no other choice.

• 30:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you enjoy like the business building, um, and kind of operating stuff or the investing more or maybe like both?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Um, I like aspects of both. I, the reason I don't like, um, that I, well, actually I'm gonna change the answer. I do like building more. Um, the thing that scared me away at first was I was afraid to fail. Like I'm a very like textbook, like we're gonna make this much money and then it gives me something to work towards. Um, something that I even had in my social media career and definitely with building businesses is I was afraid to like make something that wouldn't work instead of doing something that I really loved and making it work. So, um, building something is something I haven't done it yet. I'm working on it really hard right now and

• 30:58Speaker 02

  it's really challenging me. Um, investing is cool because you get to meet a lot of people, obviously, and you know, it's kind of one of those things I'm gonna do for anything that I can't build or the boys can't build. It's, and I want to be a part of it or I believe in it. I just put my money into it. So I would say for me, they go kind of almost hand in hand because even if I'm not building it. Personally, or the boys aren't, I'm investing in it because I want to help build it with my following, which is kind of what I've been doing, you know, I'm working on a couple of investments that haven't been signed yet. And then I have a direct deal where I'm an actual consultant and I'm literally,

• 31:37Speaker 02

  I can't build a gaming team because I don't have time, but I'm using their resources and using my following to connect the dots. So.

• 31:44Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so what's the conversation been like with founders, right? As people have found out that you're starting to invest, how has that reception been and kind of what those conversations were like?

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Um, when I first started, it was a lot different than now. When I had no investments, it was like,

• 32:02Speaker 02

  you know, how well do you convert? Like, what can you do for us? Um, you know, and like they just basically, if they, if they talk to me, they wanted the social media following. It's like, can you get me verified on Twitter? Can you retweet things for me? Like whatever, which is cool. But I was like, I don't really like, that's weird unless I really fuck with you. I'm not going to do that. But now it's definitely converted over to it's a lot more serious. We kind of have, you know, we're on a lot of cap tables and, you know, um, a lot of people are talking about us now. They're like, are these kids really serious? Are they about it? Are they worth it? And we've kind of proven ourselves, um, you know, Annie's doing a lot of cool things and,

• 32:45Speaker 02

  um, you know, some of our other investors, we've been in, you know, they, they mention us all the time and, uh, it's, it's definitely changing slowly from what can you do for us to, you know, or I guess, how can you help us to what can you do for us and help like get us there?

• 33:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. And do you guys talk internally at the house? Like if one of you sees a deal, you'll bring it back to everyone and kind of say, hey, look, I saw this. Like, I think it's cool. What do you guys think? Or are each of you kind of making decisions on your own without really talking about it with each other?

• 33:16Speaker 02

  Everything we do is together. I mean, literally there's, you know, Josh has a couple of things he's done on his own. And I have a couple of things I've done on my own as well as Bryce. Um, but we all know what's going on. It's, it's a team. Obviously we're way more powerful as a group than we are just individually. So literally everything we do runs through, you know, the boys and Michael and whoever the, the team is and then me. So, um, definitely just a big group and we really like to bundle ourselves up and bring as much punch as we can.

• 33:49Anthony Pompliano?

  You mentioned Michael, Michael Gruen, kind of, I don't even know, what exactly does Michael consider his title or role to be?

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Right. Well, that's a good thing. That's a good thing to ask because we always get really confused and battle back and forth of what we call him. He started off basically as just being mentor and he kind of wanted to be an advisor in TalonX, which is, you know, him and Josh founded it and then we all started it from scratch. So he started off wanting to just be an advisor, kind of help us out and guide us in the right direction. Ended up now, he literally helped us build the sway house, does every single deal we do. Like, he gets press for us. Like, he does literally everything. But I would consider him, more importantly, my business partner. I see myself working with him for a really

• 34:40Speaker 02

  long time and I truly believe that, you know, he's a prodigy. He can literally make money with the click of his fingers if he wants to. So.

• 34:48Anthony Pompliano?

  He's doing a fantastic job and he definitely works hard. But now that we've said nice things about him, you've got to tell us, what's the funniest Michael Gruen story you have?

• 34:56Speaker 02

  Dude, not the, it's not a story with him, but Michael one time did a TikTok with me at our old house and it's like, "Don't worry about me, I'm a thug." And it's like, I actually retweeted an edit of it because my fans made an edit of Michael doing the dance and it's like a fan page edit. And now they, they put hashtag Gruen gang under his tweets and stuff. And it is so funny because they tag me in edits of him all the time. And it's like, you know, he, he, he's the guy on Instagram that'll post pictures and the only time is when it's with someone like famous or important that he's friends with or has met. So they'll make jokes out of it and they'll be like, you know, you

• 35:41Speaker 02

  know how we tweet about the business stuff? Like, yo, at whoever, really interested in what you're doing, want to get invested, like want to learn from you. They'll like take those tweets and then change it and then tweet at him. And it's so fun.

• 35:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Hashtag Gruen gang. I love it.

• 35:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hashtag Gruen gang. It's real. I'm telling you.

• 36:00Anthony Pompliano?

  We better be careful or that literally is going to become a thing and he's going to be embarrassed.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  It already is. It already is.

• 36:07Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it. Before I let you go, I always ask everyone the same two questions and you'll get to ask me one to finish up. What's the most important book you think you've ever read?

• 36:17Speaker 02

  Oh goodness. Um, man, that's really important.

• 36:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Or, or content, didn't have to necessarily be a book, but just like, what's the most important piece of YouTube video, podcast, book, whatever?

• 36:31Speaker 02

  Um, I think I might actually have it right next to me. Um, let's see. I was gonna pull it up, but I don't know exactly where it is, but I have a book and, um, basically it, it digests like a lot of like Wamotley Crew and all, all of the old, um, you know, like, um, alternative and punk rock and rock bands did. And it kind of breaks down the meta of like, how they, um, you know, built their brands and kind of created that legacy. I don't know. Oh, here it is. Yeah. It's called, Please Kill Me. Um, and it's really cool. And I think it works for business even. And, uh, I like it because a lot of people think social media creators

• 37:13Speaker 02

  aren't smart. Um, or, you know, they don't know what they're doing. And it's kind of the same thing with them. When you think of a punk rock dude, you think of some dude with long hair, black nails, like screaming into a mic. And it's, it digests basically how every successful, you know, rock band and group ever became. And there's actually like a system to it. Um, and it really just inspired me to do that with myself and, um, build my own brand. So.

• 37:38Anthony Pompliano?

  Let them underestimate you, man. You guys are way smarter than, uh, than they think. Uh, second question's more fun. Aliens, are you a believer or non-believer?

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Um, dude, it's like, I, I, I think I'm crazy when I say yes, but at the same time, it's like, there has to be other life forms out there. There has to be.

• 38:00Anthony Pompliano?

  Of course.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  There has to be. So I would say, um, I'm beating around the bush, but the answer is yes. I, I think there's probably something out there for sure.

• 38:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Anyone who's an alien, uh, like non-believer, they're just the trolls on Twitter. There's a high correlation between trolls on Twitter and people who don't believe in aliens.

• 38:17Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, see, the thing is when you say alien, I don't think it's little green dudes flying around in a UFO. Uh, but yeah.

• 38:24Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. Good. Clarify that. So there's not headlines of Griffin Johnson believes aliens are flying in UFOs.

• 38:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's, there's something now.

• 38:34Anthony Pompliano?

  All right. You could ask me one question to finish up. What do you got for me?

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Right. So, um, one question I have for you is, is do you recommend people, um, you know, buying Bitcoin, even if it's not a full Bitcoin, obviously, because it's really expensive, especially right now. Um, do you think it's still worth it? And I know this is another question to add it on top of it. Do you think it's actually going to be worth, I think, 314K by 2025?

• 39:03Anthony Pompliano?

  Uh, I don't know where the 314K number came from, but uh,

• 39:07Speaker 02

  From the, from the twins, I believe. It's right around there, right around that 300K mark.

• 39:11Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay. So here, here's how I think about it, right? So one is, uh, you're right in that you don't have to buy a full Bitcoin, right? So full Bitcoin's like $19,000 right now. Well, y- you can definitely buy a piece of it. And here's why I think that people should own Bitcoin, right? Is just think 10 years from now. Do you think more people are going to be using Bitcoin or less people are going to be using Bitcoin than they are today? Probably more.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  I would say, I would say more, especially as the US dollar, um, you know, depreciates and the government keeps getting a lot more unstable. Um, so, you know, trusting the dollar keeps going down. So it's like, what, 2% at least every year? It depreciates from inflation?

• 39:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. So if you think of that, right? Just there's going to be more people using it, right? And adopting it in the future than today. It's a fixed supply asset. So the, just naturally supply, demand economics, the price has to go up in US dollar terms over a very, very long period of time. But I always say very, very long period of time, because what people get, you know, kind of caught on is they buy something today and whether it goes up or down, they panic, right? If it goes up a bunch, they sell it. If it goes down, they sell it, right? But if you basically just say, hey, look, I'm basically going to dollar cost average in, right? Buy a little bit, you know, every day or every Monday or every month or whatever it is. Uh, and I'm just going to accumulate more and more of this and I'm going to hold it for a long period of time. It'll work out, right? Because of the supply, demand, um, kind of economics. But I think that

• 40:34Anthony Pompliano?

  having a long time horizon is really important. Um, you know, and like right now, everyone's buying every stock in the world and Bitcoin and all this crazy stuff's happening. But you just got to remember it's like the longer term, uh, time horizon you have, the more advantage you have.

• 40:49Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, that's a, that's a good point. Cause I was, um, I bought my first Bitcoin, but I was very hesitant because I didn't want to spend, I think at the time it was like, I bought it like fifteen, four thirty something. And I was like, shit, I don't want to pay fifteen grand. And then, you know, like a month went, not even a month, like a week and a half went by and it was already up close to like nineteen. And I was like, oh, all right. Well,

• 41:17Anthony Pompliano?

  They should have bought more.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, but I still had on to it. And I think after the election stuff dies down, it'll probably drop again. Um, I'm assuming, but yeah, uh, I'm definitely going to hold on to that for a while. And I think, you know, there's only what 21 million that you can acquire total in the world. So there's going to be a time whenever it gets really sticky.

• 41:41Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it, man. I would ask where we can send people to find you on the internet, but I don't think that's going to be very hard for most people to find you. Where do you want them to go? Where should they go follow you if they're interested in all the business and finance stuff?

• 41:53Speaker 02

  I do want to say I just started a LinkedIn. I'm very proud of that. I never had one. So, you know, if you guys want to connect, you guys can find me on there with just my name, um, obviously. And then, uh, I guess Twitter, no one else wants to see me shirtless, dancing around. So if you, I, I tweet about some investments. Of course I throw in some stuff for the girls on Twitter, but, every now and again, I'll put some interesting business advice or talk to some cool people on Twitter. So, um, and my Twitter is like, I'm Griffin Johnson, but the I's and L's. So I'm sure you can just type in my name and find it.

• 42:30Anthony Pompliano?

  I love it, man. Listen, thank you so much for doing this. You guys are doing a fantastic job. You know, as I told you guys before, don't, uh, don't worry about whatever it is saying. You guys are, uh, are working hard, making money and, uh, and you're investing. So that's literally, uh, the dream.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  Thanks for, uh, thanks for letting me get on here and explain to people that, you know, I'm dumb, but just not as dumb as what they say.

• 42:50Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, man. We'll do it again in the future.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  Thanks, Pop.