Ep. 834: Dr. Crayfish, Fox Collars, and Blue Tarps | MeatEater Radio Live!

Hosts Spencer Neuharth, Maggie Hudlow, and Seth Morris talk with ecologist Dr. Zack Graham about some of the world's rarest crayfish, mull over some piping Hot Tips, learn about collaring foxes in the Grand Tetons with Emily Davis, and host another exciting round of MeatEater Price is Right. Watch the live stream on the MeatEater Podcast Network YouTube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Subscribe to The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:21Steven Rinella?

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• 2:00Speaker 03

  Smell us now, lady. Welcome to MeatEater Trivia. MeatEater Podcast.

• 2:23Speaker 03

  Welcome to Meat Eater Radio Live. It's 11 a.m. Mountain Time. That's 7 p.m. for our Olympians listening in Italy on Thursday, February 12, and we're live from Meat Eater HQ in Bozeman. I'm your host, Spencer, joined today by Seth and Maggie. On today's show, we'll interview Dr. Zack Graham about some of the world's rarest crayfish. Then we'll have a hot tip-off about wall tents and duck breasts, followed by an interview with Emily Davis about collaring predators and the Grand Tetons. And finally, Seth and Maggie will compete in Meat Eater's Price is Right. But first, Maggie Hudlow, our Director of Web Content, has a few important updates for us out of Minnesota and Florida. Maggie, the floor is yours. Where are we starting, Minnesota or Florida?

• 3:07Speaker 04

  Well, let's kick it off with Florida.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:10Speaker 04

  So anglers, health advocates, and First Amendment advocates are all fighting against a provision that's in Senate Bill 290 and House Bill 433. And what this provision does is it expands on existing food libel laws, which basically were set in place to protect perishable goods from being, you know, spoken poorly against to... It was a protection for agriculture.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 3:45Speaker 04

  And so now what's happening is that this is being expanded to cover non-perishable goods, agricultural practices, and it throws on one-way attorney fees. So, sort of, what could happen with this is if you are like an influencer and you make a post about how you don't like glyphosate on your food.

• 4:08Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 4:09Speaker 04

  You could be sued by whatever ag company for making a claim about this if you don't have like scientific studies that you're citing. So it sets this tone of like not wanting public critique and conversation.

• 4:27Speaker 04

  Um, it's sort of this like muzzling of public input.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  And how how does this affect hunters and anglers, though, in Florida?

• 4:36Speaker 04

  So, um, the organization Captain for Clean Waters has been sort of battling against uh, big sugar. That's, you know, it's ag, but it's an industry and they've there's been studies that were released, I believe in 2022, that directly correlated um, big sugar with Lake Okeechobee, um,

• 5:01Speaker 04

  the red algae blooms that were coming from that.

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  And, you know, these Florida captains were seeing this. The algae bloom started in 2018. But they were, you know, they were raising the alarm for this in 2018, but if they didn't have that study, they could have been sued. They would have had to pay all of the attorney fees for the defendant and the plaintiff. Um, so it's just like that it would remove the ability to have those conversations, to bring up that kind of stuff because people would be so afraid of the legal fees and just, you know, the hassle of being taken to court for

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 04

  using your First Amendment right.

• 5:39Speaker 03

  Already a challenging thing to do, even when there's not the threat of legal action like that. Uh, and so this just makes it even more crippling for hunters and anglers and conservationists in Florida. Uh, Maggie has covered this story very well on the meat eater dot com. Uh, she recently had an article, Florida bill threatens public advocacy for lands, water and wildlife. Where does this bill stand right now?

• 6:02Speaker 04

  So, yeah, read that because that's a better overview than what I just gave you right now. Um, but currently, the, um, the Senate stripped the provision, but it still exists in the House bill. Um, so orgs like captains for clean water are keeping the hammer down, keeping the pressure on, hoping to get that provision removed from the House version of the bill as well. Um. So it's good progress, but the fight's not over on that yet.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Okay, you'll see more updates, you know, on our website, the meat eater dot com. You'll hear them on this podcast. And then we also have a new social channel called Meat Eater News that is meant to cover things just like this. So hunters and anglers are just more informed in general. All right, let's talk about Minnesota. What's going on there?

• 6:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, the, uh, the vote on the Boundary Waters, HJR 140, has been delayed in the Senate until February 23rd. I think everybody here is probably pretty well versed on what's happening in the Boundary Waters.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  You know, no one, no one here wants to see the mining happen there. But the reason that was delayed is because people are raising their voices. They're being heard. That's why this was paused. You know, if you don't live in Minnesota, if you don't live in Florida, like these issues impact everyone because they set a tone. You know, if, if this bill gets passed in Florida, it could easily be copycated for passing, you know, the, the same thing in like a mining setting where it's like, okay, we're doing this and you can't speak out against it. If this, um,

• 7:46Speaker 04

  oh my gosh, I'm blanking on what it is. The, uh, the congressional, um,

• 7:53Speaker 04

  sorry, I'm having a brain fart.

• 7:55Speaker 03

  There, there are two, you were making the observation before we turn on the mics, there are two unrelated bills that are very related.

• 8:00Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Especially right now in this like time and moment.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  Yes. And, and it, it impacts conservationists across the country. And the more that we can have this like unified voice, the better we, chance we have at protecting these wild places.

• 8:18Speaker 04

  Even if it's not your home, even if you don't recreate there often, like raise your voice. Because it could be in your backyard next time.

• 8:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, a lot of ways to stay updated on this. One of the best that I've found is BHA emails. It seems like the minute something happens or is about to happen, if there are rumors circulating that seem to have some legs, they will send out an email and tell you what's going on and how you can act on behalf of yourself and fellow hunters and anglers and conservationists. So BHA newsletter is a great, great thing to watch, again, as well as the Meat Eater News, the meat eater.com and our future news podcast that's coming in about a month from now. All right, joining us on the line first is ecologist Dr. Zack Graham. He's here to talk to us about his new book called Crayfish, Crawfish, Crawdad, The Biology and Conservation of North America's Favorite Crustaceans.

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Dr. Graham, welcome to the show.

• 9:13Speaker 05

  How you doing? Yeah, thank you all for having me. Very excited to be here to talk about these animals.

• 9:18Speaker 03

  Thanks for joining us. Our first question, what do you call them? Crayfish, crawfish, crawdads, or something else?

• 9:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I call them crayfish generally. It's kind of like a regional dialect. So I'm from the Northeast. I'm from Pennsylvania. And so most people around Pennsylvania are calling them crayfish.

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Okay, we've talked about on the show in the past how when you hear coyote versus coyote, hunters tend to call them coyotes, non-hunters tend to call them coyotes. Is there anything like that when it comes to crayfish? Like, what does that tell you about a person when you hear them call it a crayfish versus crawfish versus crawdad?

• 9:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, it tells you a little bit about where they're from because it's kind of like a regional dialect, whether you call them crayfish, crawfish, or crawdad. The other thing, you know, there's kind of like a saying with among crayfish biologists, where we say if you're studying them, you call them crayfish. So like the scientists call them crayfish. If you are eating them, you call them crawfish. And if you're fishing with them, you call them crawdads. So sometimes

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Makes sense.

• 10:24Speaker 05

  We're calling them different names based on their interaction with them. But most scientists will call them crayfish.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  And we are looking at a heat map here of what parts of the country call them different things. The hottest spots on that map look like deep south Louisiana calls them crawfish. And then like the Minnesota, Wisconsin border crayfish. Part of Pennsylvania is hot for crayfish. And then the PNW looks like they prefer. Crawdad, a very interesting visual you can see on the Meat Dieter Podcast YouTube channel during this interview. Dr. Graham, about 70% of the world's 600-ish crayfish species are found in the United States. What is it about these animals that make them so uniquely American?

• 11:11Speaker 05

  Yeah, so this is something that's really cool is that crayfish are kind of like an American group of animals. There's crayfish around the world, but most of them are in the eastern United States. And so the reason that primarily is, we think, is that the eastern United States has amazing freshwater biodiversity, primarily because of the Appalachian Mountains, which are very, very old, hundreds of millions of years old, even compared to the Rocky Mountains, which are surprisingly relatively new, even though they're much higher. So it all has to do with the development of the Appalachian Mountains over hundreds of millions of years. That's split up waterways and led to a lot of really unique freshwater biodiversity.

• 11:52Speaker 03

  Love that. All right, let's talk about some of the more unique species of crayfish. Tell us about some of the varieties that spend most of their life on land.

• 12:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, these are some of my favorite, because when we think about these animals, the crayfish or the crawfish, you think about them living in water, like a lake or a creek or something like that. But there's a lot, about 30% of crayfish species, that they're called burrowing species. And what they do is they essentially live on land, but then they dig down deep into the mud until they hit the water. So they're kind of like terrestrial animals. They live on land, but they dig down to the water. And they make these little chimneys, we call them. They're called chimneys. Very common throughout the Midwest and the Southeast, you're seeing these little piles of mud. And that's what the crayfish are doing, is that they're going down, getting a little pile of mud, and then putting it

• 12:46Speaker 05

  at the very top of their burrow. And then they live down there pretty much their entire life. And most people never get to see one, but they're really unique.

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Are there any other animals that use those chimneys that they make? Or is that that's exclusively for those burrowing crayfish?

• 13:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, so they build it for themselves, but it essentially is like a nice little climate-controlled environment. And so tons of animals love to kind of hijack the burrow or use it after the crayfish passes away. So snakes, frogs, salamanders, there's a lot of animals that like to use these burrows.

• 13:24Speaker 06

  Dr. Graham, I got a question for you. Are those crayfish that are making those burrows, are they coming out to feed at like certain time, like at night or something? Or are they just like in there all the time?

• 13:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, so the kind of general consensus is that most of them are feeding down in the burrow, feeding on little bugs that are crawling into their burrow, feeding on the root matter of the plants. Some of them, though, we have observed and studied how they sit at the very top of their burrow and they'll wait for like a slug or a spider or a snail to crawl around and then they'll pounce on it. So they kind of do, they kind of sit at the top and wait as a predator, but then they also probably forage in the immediate area, but they almost never are found like out in the open.

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Hmm. Tell us about some of the species that live in caves.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, so crayfish live in streams, creeks, these burrows that I'm talking about. And then they can also live in caves. And so cave-adapted crayfish, they're completely translucent and white. They often have no eyes whatsoever and they live in caves and adapted to these caves. They can be found throughout Appalachia, primarily throughout Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama has cave species. The one photographed here is called a spider cave crayfish from Florida. They're very small and they kind of look like spiders. They're about an inch long. So very unique adaptations and very unique kind of form that they come in.

• 15:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think when most folks picture a crayfish, they envision one that's red and like four inches long, but you know better than anybody that they come in all sizes and colors. Tell us about some of the crayfish species that break the mold and might be really big or really small or very colorful.

• 15:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, so crayfish are very diverse. They're not just this boring brown or red bug that many people think they are. They can be at adult size absolutely massive. So maybe you have all seen Jeremy Wade go to Tasmania and find the giant freshwater lobster. That's a crayfish. So that's a type of crayfish and they can get, you know, absolutely massive.

• 15:39Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 15:40Speaker 05

  Two, three feet in length.

• 15:42Speaker 03

  Oh my goodness.

• 15:43Speaker 05

  I'd say, yeah, they're huge. They can also be really small. And so there's this group called the dwarf crayfishes where they kind of max out at about an inch. So, you know, they come in all shapes and sizes. And then you also asked about the colors. They can be wildly colorful. They can be almost any color that you can imagine. Reds are very common, blues are very common, oranges, reds, kind of everything in between. They're, they're very beautiful. Many of them aren't appreciated for their beauty, but you know, this is what a lot of the work that I try to do is to teach people about how cool and unique they are.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  You mentioned the three footers in Tasmania. What are the biggest ones that we have in the United States?

• 16:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would say that the biggest species, they're called bottle brush crayfishes. It's one of the images that you showed a few slides back. But they're these really big ones that are like the size of a big textbook. So, you know, maybe 10 inches or so long. And they can be found in only a few streams throughout Kentucky, Tennessee, and Alabama. A pretty rare, but quite large species. They only live under massive rocks that are like the size of your car hood.

• 17:05Speaker 03

  Damn. Now, it's estimated that about one third of the world's crayfish species are at risk of extinction. What are their top threats in the United States?

• 17:16Speaker 05

  Yeah, so many of these crayfish, they require a clean, nice environment to thrive. And so anytime that gets disturbed, you know, there's some issues for the crayfish, whether it be local extractive industries like mining, timber, industries that can kind of clog up the streams nearby. There's also a lot of invasive crayfish. So I know you all probably talk and know about invasive fish that are brought and travel around the world because humans put them there. The exact same deal has happened for crayfish. So invasive crayfish actually hurt native crayfish populations in many cases. So there's a lot of threats that they face.

• 17:59Speaker 03

  Uh, Dr. Graham, somebody who's watching this live in the chat asked a question about heavy metals that are found in crayfish. Uh, we, we always talk about mercury levels in fish that we catch and eat. Is that something we need to worry about with crustaceans like the crayfish?

• 18:14Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it's less well studied in crayfish. It is well studied in smaller other aquatic invertebrates, uh, like stone flies and may flies. And so that's what people, you know, try to mimic flies for fly fishing. But presumably the exact same thing is happening with the crayfish where they're kind of absorbing it through their environment and consuming, uh, it throughout their environment as well.

• 18:39Speaker 06

  Um, Dr. Graham, I got another question. For the states up north and like, uh, you know, eastern state, states that get snow and ice, once those lakes and rivers freeze, what are the crayfish doing that time of year?

• 18:55Speaker 05

  Yeah, so crayfish are kind of like most dominant in these types of temperate areas that have pretty serious winters. And what they do is they just burrow. So even the species that live in the stream, they'll dig down, uh, maybe six inches or one foot beneath the frost line and they will kind of do like a little hibernation, more or less is one of the best ways to put it. Uh, they'll sit there and just wait out until it's warmer and there's food available for them.

• 19:25Speaker 06

  And is it a water temperature thing that makes them do that? Or, you know, and if, if so, what is that water temperature generally?

• 19:32Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's, it's probably a lot, uh, it's probably a lot of factors. I wouldn't. Know the exact water temperature that they will start to do that, but I know, you know, in the northeast, for example, or really anywhere that's temperate, once it starts hitting, um, you know, air temperatures of forty degrees or so, the crayfish in the water, uh, whatever the correlated well water temperature would be, they start to be less active.

• 19:58Speaker 03

  Gotcha. Um, our listeners like to catch and cook crayfish, so give them some tips as a doctor who has studied crayfish behavior on how we can catch more of them.

• 20:09Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think some of the best tips that I would have are to put your traps. Most people are gonna throw out traps with, you know, really any type of bait works, the smellier the better, though. I've used, uh, chicken livers and bacon and have great success with that. You need to put those trout out, though, wherever there's habitat. And so the crayfish like to hide under rocks and in little crevices and under logs. So you need to put it where there's a lot of habitat. And also, if you get it during a specific time of year, look up when the crayfish around you are breeding. Once you get the breeding males, those are the ones with the biggest tails that are, you know, the best eating essentially, in many cases.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  Uh, those ones, you know, you wanna look at when those are coming out. So it depends on where you're at.

• 20:58Speaker 03

  Okay, good notes. Now, our listeners also like to imitate crayfish when they're fishing for bass and trout. Give us some tips on how we can make those presentations look super lifelike.

• 21:10Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, the crayfish, they're typically on the bottom of whatever body of water you're fishing. And obviously, they're, um, you know, living on the stream bed or the river bed. And so it's hard to kind of present a lure that stays down there where the crayfish normally reside. But what I often would suggest people to do is what crayfish will do is they'll also do something called a tail flip escape response. If you've ever tried to catch a crayfish with your hand in a creek, you know that they dart backwards. And it's like one very quick movement. And so you can try to mimic that by doing, you know, a specific type of jigging where you just, you know, yank on your bait a little bit, um, or your lure, um, to try to mimic that. And that can sometimes trigger the fish to go after them.

• 21:57Speaker 06

  Do you find that, um, let's say a small mouth, when he's feeding, if he sees a crayfish with one claw? Is he happy? Or is it, or is it not matter to them?

• 22:08Speaker 05

  It does not matter that much. I've seen, but they will, I have seen bass when I'm snorkeling, for example, and I catch a crayfish, they'll come up and take the claws off and just eat those.

• 22:20Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 22:20Speaker 05

  And then, yeah, I've seen that a few times, like they'll follow you around. If you're catching crayfish, the bass will follow you around, because I often snorkel. So I'm underwater with them, uh, and it, it's really amazing. But yeah, I think they probably prefer to not have the claws, but I don't think it bothers.

• 22:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, there, there's been times when I've been using, uh, baits that mimic crayfish that I'll like, cut one of the claws off just to make it seem like.

• 22:45Speaker 03

  It's different.

• 22:45Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's just.

• 22:46Speaker 03

  Safer.

• 22:47Speaker 06

  Yeah, a little safer to eat.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't, I don't think they mind too much, but, um, you know, that'd be something really interesting to look into.

• 22:55Speaker 03

  Uh, our listeners have one more question that I want to call out. They want to know if Dr. Crayfish eats crayfish.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  So funnily enough, I am deathly allergic.

• 23:04Speaker 03

  Whoa.

• 23:06Speaker 05

  I cannot have. Yeah, it is a plot twist. I spend my entire life and day thinking about them, but if they get in my mouth, my throat swells and I will go to the hospital.

• 23:16Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 23:17Speaker 05

  So I do not eat them, but I condone eating them. I cook them for my friends when we go camping and whatnot. Uh, so it's a great way to kind of learn about them.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:27Speaker 05

  Uh, for sure.

• 23:27Speaker 03

  That's a good threat. I like that they have that power over you, uh, that they could kill you if they just, you know, make it in your mouth.

• 23:34Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah. It's, it's very ironic. Uh, I think it's kind of meant to be.

• 23:37Speaker 03

  All right. Dr. Graham's Crayfish Crawfish Crawdad dropped last month and it's available wherever books are sold. Dr. Graham, thanks for joining us.

• 23:45Speaker 05

  Yep. Thank you all. Appreciate it.

• 23:46Speaker 06

  Thanks, Dr. Graham.

• 23:47Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 23:48Speaker 03

  Uh, before the show, Seth was telling me about a theory he has on a certain body of water where he thinks the crayfish are making the walleye fishery much better that time of year. Tell us about it. You don't have to tell us the body of water.

• 24:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, no, I just, I just found, um, certain times of year when the water hits a certain temp, these fish are staging on rock. And I got to thinking and I got to doing some research and. Found out that like around here, that same water temp that I'm finding where these fish are staging is like potentially the same water temp where crayfish are coming out of hibernation.

• 24:23Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:23Speaker 06

  So that made me think that maybe that's why these bigger walleye are staging on these rock, on this rock to target crayfish coming out. So I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I feel like it is.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  I bought my first crayfish fly last summer. Uh, did not catch a trout on it, but I sure tried. A lot of trout looked at it and they thought, now that the guy's an idiot. He has no idea.

• 24:45Speaker 06

  Cut a claw off of it.

• 24:47Speaker 03

  I will next time.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  There, I want to know, uh, I want to know why bottom feeders are so delicious. Crayfish, crabs, lobsters.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Carp.

• 24:56Speaker 04

  Burbit.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:58Speaker 04

  I, this is something I was doing some research. There's, I wasn't satisfied.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Research by tasting them.

• 25:05Speaker 04

  Tasting and, and actual like Googles, Googling.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 25:10Speaker 04

  But I want to know why.

• 25:12Speaker 03

  All of our listeners now are going to be better at catching crayfish and catching fish that eat crayfish.

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• 28:41Speaker 03

  Alright, our next segment is Hot Tip Off.

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Hot Tip Off is where two listeners go head to head with competing pieces of advice. And after we hear each tip, we'll declare which one is hotter. If you have a hot tip, take a one-minute video on your phone and email it to radio@themead eater.com with the subject line "Hot Tip Off." This week, it's Austin Rhines versus Mark DeGroot, and they are competing for a $100 Meat Eater Store gift card. Take it away, Phil.

• 29:29Speaker 07

  Hey Meat Eater, coming at you today with a hot tip off. My hot tip is to use a carport instead of a wall tent. I picked up a carport on clearance for $150, and we brought it into the shop here and we did some retrofits to it. We permanently connected some of the joints. We labeled and made quick attach fasteners for the other joints, just using bolts and wing nuts. Some of the pieces of pipe, we eliminated them all together and replaced them with some PVC conduit to make it a lot lighter. So now, we take a carport up to Bear Camp with us every year. And in about 15 minutes, we've got the whole thing thrown up and installed.

• 30:12Speaker 07

  It's rigid, strong, it's a good place to keep our gear nice and dry. And sometimes it's just a good place to get away from the mosquitoes. So that's my hot tip, is to use a carport instead of a wall tent.

• 30:35Speaker 08

  Hey Meteor Crew, this is Austin from Arkansas and I got a hot tip for y'all. I'm preparing some goose for this weekend that we killed this season. Um, I got some cubed up right here that we're gonna put on some kebabs. And then I got some whole breasts that I'm gonna pan sear and roast in the oven with some potatoes and some carrots and stuff. And man, I just love to leave the skin on my goose, my duck. It just makes it more flavorful, more moist. You get a little crisp on there. I just think it's all together better. The only problem you run into is you get all these, these pin feathers on here. I mean, and they are just a headache to take off. And there's all sorts of methods. I see people that burn them off. I see people that pluck them by hand.

• 31:20Speaker 08

  And all that just takes time. Burning them stinks and it just gets meticulous. So what I thought of, I went down to the dollar store, buy the old cheap razor, just the cheapest one you can find. And you just take this, take this goose right here and just give him a little shave.

• 31:37Speaker 06

  Shave the goose.

• 31:38Speaker 08

  A little shave, just all over. He don't need no shaving cream. He don't care anymore. You just shave them. Don't worry, have to worry about nicking them. And then, I mean, this thing gets clogged up. You just rinse it off. I mean, look at that. I mean, they're just coming off and it is just, this one's already done. I mean, not a pin hair on that thing. Look at that. So that's my tip for y'all. Hope y'all like it. Y'all have a good one.

• 32:05Speaker 03

  Okay, the live chat is going to decide who wins the $100 Meteor Store gift card. Phil is going to put up a poll between Mark, uh, the carport wall tent man and Austin, the duck breast razor.

• 32:19Speaker 09

  Poll is, poll is live. Give you a minute or two here.

• 32:22Speaker 03

  Uh, Maggie, what do you think? Who would get your vote, uh, between Mark with the wall tent and Austin with the razor?

• 32:29Speaker 04

  Man, wall tents are expensive. I've been looking into wall tents and like now I'm gonna start looking at Facebook Marketplace for, uh, for carports, but, uh, also I wanna try shaving a duck or goose now.

• 32:45Speaker 04

  I like them both. I think, I think they're both good tips.

• 32:48Speaker 03

  You gotta vote for one.

• 32:49Speaker 04

  I'm skeptical of the shaving.

• 32:51Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  So I'm going carport.

• 32:53Speaker 03

  All right.

• 32:54Speaker 04

  I'm skeptical until I try it.

• 32:55Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. He showed us some evidence there on the cellphone video that certainly had uh, some feathers that the razor caught, uh, but we'll see. Seth, what do you think? Mark or Austin?

• 33:06Speaker 06

  Um, personally, I think this is the closest one, like.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  These are hot tips.

• 33:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, typ- typically, um, I'm like, I know I'm going with this one for sure.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 33:15Speaker 06

  But this one, I'm like, man, I had to think about both, but at the end of the day, I like being frugal.

• 33:20Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:20Speaker 06

  And, uh, the carport wall tent, I think, takes a W for me.

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  Just because it's simple, it's, it's, uh, cheap and, um, seems like it would work.

• 33:31Speaker 03

  Two votes, uh, for the carport wall tent. I'm gonna give it to the duck breast razor. Um, that, that did look pretty effective to me and, uh, that's a, a situation that'd be nice to have a very effective way to get those, or they pin feathers, what, what are they called? To get their small feathers, uh, out of the fat of a duck breast. Mark's carport wall tent, uh, extremely well done. That looked to me like some buddies who wanted to get together for, you know, like six nights in a month and, and drink some bush lights.

• 34:01Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 34:01Speaker 03

  And, uh, have a little project to work on and that's a lot of fun. I, I love that, uh, Mark did that and I trust that that gets some good use at Bear Camp. Um, both very hot tips though. On that note, we are going to empty the clip on hot tips for our very last episode. We may have five or six or 10 of these matchups. So you only have a couple of weeks left, uh, to send us your hot tips at radio at the meat eater dot com. Again, it should be a one minute video on your phone. Uh, shoot it vertically for us and then if you have a good one that gets submitted, we're going to use it in that very last episode. So get those sent to us. Phil, what does the chat think?

• 34:39Speaker 09

  I'm gonna give him 30 more seconds because it's close enough that the tide could turn in that amount of time. So if you have not voted in the live chat, get your votes in. You have a few more seconds left.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Okay. Where, where does it currently stand?

• 34:50Speaker 09

  Currently, well, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you the split, but I'm not gonna tell you who's winning.

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 34:53Speaker 09

  The first place contested is that only at 52%.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  Oh, that is close. Couple of votes could swing it.

• 35:00Speaker 06

  Tight race.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  You should see that carport wall tent. You can, you can see that on the Meat Eater Podcast YouTube channel. Uh, Mark was gracious enough to show it in action at Bear Camp.

• 35:10Speaker 06

  I wonder how it does in the wind.

• 35:12Speaker 03

  I was wondering that too. Uh, you know, it's, it's not going to function just like a wall tent, but you know, a good place to maybe cook in or store gear out of the rain.

• 35:20Speaker 06

  And I guess if it just gets totally demolished by the wind, you could just go buy another one for

• 35:25Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 35:25Speaker 06

  A hundred whatever dollars.

• 35:27Speaker 03

  Start another buddy project in your garage.

• 35:29Speaker 09

  It is now tied.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 35:31Speaker 09

  So I cannot end the, as soon as I see someone jump up 1%. Oh, and in the poll.

• 35:35Speaker 03

  All right. What do we got?

• 35:37Speaker 09

  It was meant to be because this person was in the lead for the entire thing with 51% of the vote, just barely. I think by maybe one vote, the winner is Austin with the goose shaving.

• 35:47Speaker 03

  Okay. He is going to get the $100 media gift card. That is the closest hot tip off we've ever had. Seth identified it that way and the chat agreed. Uh, two very hot tips from Mark and Austin. All right. Let's take a break for some listener feedback. Phil, what's the chat have to say?

• 36:05Speaker 09

  Yeah, this is from Spencer. Question for the crew. I have an alligator euro mount skull, which is drying and splitting up the nose. Is there something I can put on this skull to keep it from drying or cracking up the snout? Thank you. Hmm.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  Maybe like some beeswax or something?

• 36:22Speaker 03

  Beeswax would be good. Um, I have no idea.

• 36:26Speaker 06

  You know, we were talking about there, uh, earlier, there's this group of dudes that hunt, uh, or dig for fossils in Montana, dinosaur fossils, and they use that paleo glue it's called. When they, when they expose a bone, they hit it with that like right away. So it doesn't like dry out and crack. I wonder if something like that would work.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. On, on a lot of like, uh, there's some fossils I find that come out of the ground very moist and then they take a lot of time to dry. And in that time, uh, they will kind of, um, like get warped, like they'll, they'll, if they were straight before, now they're shaped like a U. I hit a lot of those with lacquer right at the beginning. I don't know if I'm doing it good. I've seen other paleontologists do a similar thing like Seth is talking about. So, uh, we don't have the perfect answer for you there, Spencer. You're going to have to experiment and. And find out for yourself. But beeswax, lacquer, paleo glue, those are the three recommendations from us. What else you got, Phil?

• 37:21Speaker 09

  Master Chief, John Halo himself asks, are y'all doing trivia at the N W T F after-party again this year?

• 37:28Speaker 03

  We are. We will be there. That after-party is on Friday night. It will be me, Giannis, Clay Newcomb, Brent Reeves. We will be hosting the after-party and there will be some trivia that is done by the audience. That means you guys are answering questions about yourselves at the game we call Meatpole. So we will have trivia there. And if that's not enticing enough to get you out there, again, come shake Clay Newcomb's hand and tell him a bear hunting story.

• 37:56Speaker 09

  Tines Lines has a simple question. Do you guys have some summer fishing trips planned that you're excited about?

• 38:02Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. What do you got, Seth?

• 38:05Speaker 06

  Um, well, just hitting local stuff here, of course. Um, for some bass and walleye and then heading out to Saginaw Bay to do some fishing.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  What time of year?

• 38:19Speaker 06

  That'll be in June. That'll be a little film thing, too.

• 38:21Speaker 03

  That'll be fun.

• 38:22Speaker 06

  So you'll be, you guys will be able to watch that at some point, huh?

• 38:25Speaker 03

  Maggie, fishing trips?

• 38:26Speaker 04

  I'm taking my niece on her first backpacking, backcountry fishing trip.

• 38:30Speaker 03

  How old?

• 38:31Speaker 06

  Nice.

• 38:31Speaker 04

  Uh, she'll be five.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  Five? Is she ready?

• 38:34Speaker 04

  She's ready.

• 38:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:36Speaker 04

  She doesn't know anything about fishing or backpacking, but

• 38:39Speaker 03

  Perfect.

• 38:39Speaker 04

  She'll have a good time.

• 38:40Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Any other big trips this summer?

• 38:42Speaker 04

  Not planned. I'll get up in the mountains. We'll take the boat out. I'm, I'm bad at planning ahead, but there will be fishing.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 38:51Speaker 06

  Cool.

• 38:51Speaker 03

  My, my two big fishing trips this summer, I'm going to go to the Columbia River in Oregon and catch some white sturgeon. I've never done that before. Met a fella at a donut shop in Oregon a few years ago. And he said, if you ever want to come catch our big old white sturgeon, hit me up. And whenever someone offers me something like that, I say, don't offer that unless You're willing for me to take it, take you up on that offer because I'm gonna do it. Uh, and I did, I'm gonna go visit him in June. We're gonna catch some big ol' sturgeon. Uh, the other one is I'm gonna go to the Boundary Waters this summer as well. I spent a couple of days there last year, just passing through on my way to, uh, Isle Royale. And, uh, I loved it so much, I started planning my next trip right away.

• 39:32Speaker 03

  So I'm gonna make a solo trip out there with my kayaks, uh, try to get into some bass and, and walleye and some panfish.

• 39:37Speaker 09

  Hmm, sounds fun.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  Cook them up while I'm there. Phil, let's do a couple more.

• 39:41Speaker 09

  Yeah, Free Crank asks, can we still get radio live like once a month or once a season? Maybe special events, maybe for deer season or elk season or spring turkey?

• 39:50Speaker 03

  What do you think, Phil?

• 39:51Speaker 09

  Yeah, we can do that. We'll do it a few times a year.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  Why not? We flirted with the idea of maybe doing some primetime radio lives. Uh, you know, maybe like a, a 6:00 PM show a few times a year. We don't have anything set in stone yet, but, uh, radio live, we've, we've talked about it as it's sunsetting, uh, not dying. So, uh, you know, the sun rises again.

• 40:14Speaker 09

  That's what they say about people with Alzheimer's.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  I didn't know that one.

• 40:18Speaker 09

  Uh, let's see.

• 40:19Speaker 03

  That's less fun.

• 40:20Speaker 09

  Just found out, this is from Nate, just found out that Unit 2 goose season in South Dakota goes till February 14th. Do I take a trip to chase honkers on Valentine's Day or keep my marriage intact? Well, what would you do?

• 40:31Speaker 04

  Take your sweetheart with you.

• 40:33Speaker 09

  Yeah, take your wife. Obvious answer.

• 40:35Speaker 04

  Duh.

• 40:36Speaker 09

  Unless she absolutely hates it, it's probably not how she wants to spend her Valentine's Day if she has other interests.

• 40:41Speaker 04

  South Dakota's for lovers, right?

• 40:43Speaker 03

  That's what they say. Uh, what is it? Is it Virginia?

• 40:46Speaker 09

  Yeah. I've heard Ohio. I, I, I don't know.

• 40:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, I saw somebody ask on there about javelina hunting tips. Phil, I don't know if you saw that question.

• 40:56Speaker 09

  I can find it, but if you, if you wanna, you know, summarize the question.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  No, I just wanna let him know to keep an eye out that we got an article about that from Jim Heffelfinger.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 41:08Speaker 04

  Coming on the site.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 41:10Speaker 04

  It should be live today or tomorrow, depending on how much work I get done after this.

• 41:15Speaker 03

  You can now get in the record books with the big ol' javelina.

• 41:18Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 41:19Speaker 09

  We'll do one more here. Well, let me see if, uh, yeah, we've got our next guest waiting, so we'll do one more here. This is for Seth from Garrison. Question for Seth, I'm studying forestry in college and I'm realizing that it's not really something I want to do for a living.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  Uh oh.

• 41:30Speaker 09

  How did you go from your forestry degree to breaking into another industry?

• 41:35Speaker 06

  Um.

• 41:37Speaker 06

  Well, what I'm doing now is just kind of a hobby. So.

• 41:42Speaker 09

  Long-term hobby that you're getting paid for?

• 41:44Speaker 06

  What's your hobbies? Um, yeah, no, I, I planned on doing forestry stuff for most of my life and then would picked up a camera and started shooting photos on the side and kind of one thing led to another and here I am. So, um, not really in your, I, I didn't experience what your experience. I, I kind of wanted to be a forester all through college. Um, but I, I don't know. It's not too late to change.

• 42:12Speaker 03

  One thing I'd say to Garrison, uh, we've talked about this before on trivia. We had a trivia question about this profession in the United States has the happiest people. Uh, this was a stat that polled, I don't remember how many dozens of, of different careers. And the number one happiest profession was foresters. Um, so Garrison, maybe, maybe think about how happy that would make you versus doing something.

• 42:36Speaker 06

  I will say on day one of forestry school, our professor said, how many, uh, raise your hand if you guys would like to make a decent amount of money someday. And like everyone raised their hand. She goes, you've chose the wrong major.

• 42:51Speaker 04

  That's what they say to all the fun majors.

• 42:55Speaker 06

  But you're outside all the time. So it's great.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  There you go.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  All right. We're going to do our next interview now.

• 43:03Speaker 04

  All right. We got Emily Davis. She's a PhD student at the University of Wyoming. Currently studying how, uh, wolves, coyotes and red foxes coexist in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Emily, welcome to radio live.

• 43:24Speaker 10

  Hello. Thanks for having me.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Glad you're here. Are you currently out and about in the field?

• 43:31Speaker 10

  Yeah, we're, uh, out digging out traps because it snowed a foot over the night last night. So.

• 43:37Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 43:38Speaker 10

  Nah, wouldn't have allowed any foxes to get in, but those are all the people doing the real work over there. They just got dumped on by snow from a tree too. So, perfect for the camera. Um, but yeah, we're out, uh, finally able to ski. They drug this trap in yesterday over dirt. So it's nice to have a foot of snow on the ground.

• 43:55Speaker 04

  Makes it a little easier, huh? Well, tell us a little bit about your research and why you're trapping foxes.

• 44:02Speaker 10

  Yeah, so this project has kind of been coming into itself for a long time. The park has historically monitored foxes across the landscape because foxes are really cute. People have learned to feed them. That in turn has allowed foxes to become pretty habituated and learn how to sit for food in a lot of cases. And so actually, my previous lab mate, Emily Burkholder, also my best friend, actually studied the red fox population in Grand Teton and looked at how they used human areas. But this project specifically includes coyotes and wolves to kind of expand on this idea of trophic interactions from the large predator to the smallest predator, to see how they interact on the landscape, how they share space, time, and food.

• 44:47Speaker 10

  There's this historic understanding that, you know, wolves were reintroduced 30 years ago, and this idea that when wolves come in, they decrease the meso predator population or coyotes through competition. And prior to that, anecdotally, there is a lot more coyotes on the landscape. But through wolf reintroduction, the coyote population has anecdotally been limited, which has allowed the red fox population to rebound. And so while that's a really beautiful story, and I think it's awesome to think about, it's probably way more nuanced than that. So we are finally at this time where we have enough technology to get really fine-scale data on these animals. So we have collars on wolves, coyotes, and red foxes, hence the trapping, that are all synced up at the same time.

• 45:31Speaker 10

  So we can actually get where they are on the landscape. We also are doing backtracking to collect their scat to get DNA meta-barcoding done on their diet to see how often they share resources or don't share resources across the park and the greater landscape. We're using anonymized cellphone data to get at human pressure on these animals because the park, although beautiful and seemingly serene, obviously has a lot of visitors and very heavy visitation in the summer. So I'm sure that makes an impact on how they share the landscape. And we're just incorporating a lot of cool technology that hasn't really been available before to ask these questions. And a lot of the questions previously asked are very coarse and just like, where are wolves in this area?

• 46:15Speaker 10

  Where are foxes in this area? But we're really diving deep into it.

• 46:20Speaker 04

  That's awesome. And your research is pretty much conducted during the winter months, right? You guys aren't out here trapping in the warmer months of the year.

• 46:31Speaker 10

  Yeah, we trap foxes in the winter because bears are out in the summer. And I think it would be, and we use really smelly lure, gusto, and which is skunk lure and red fox lure. But the bears would probably be keyed into that pretty heavily. And we don't want a little fox stuck in a trap while there's a bear around. That would be pretty horrible. But yeah, they, it's also their breeding season right now. So we've caught six this year so far. We have 14 more collars to put out. We caught 15 last year for collars. And so we're hoping it picks up. And we're hoping they're starting to seek their mates out. The snow was a bit of a change. So hopefully they'll come out tonight because the snow is a bit heavy. But yeah, most of our, most of the fun works in the winter. And it's been pretty awesome to ski around out here. We

• 47:14Speaker 10

  do have some summer work checking cameras and stuff, but most of it's in the winter.

• 47:18Speaker 03

  Emily, in July, there was a lot of coverage of the park and a specific fox there. The New York Times, among other places, had a headline, Beware of Swiper: A Fox at Grand Teton Park Who Steals Shoes. Are you familiar with that fox? And can you tell us more about him or her?

• 47:36Speaker 10

  Yes, we are familiar with that fox. That was the second fox we trapped last year. Our name for him is actually Leroy, or in joking terms, Leroy, because he was trapped up near Lizard Creek Campground. And actually, two of the people that are here right now went and found, I think, three shoes for him. But he's, he's collared, and he's actually a pretty trap happy fox. So we caught him this year, recollared him. But yeah, I heard that. I heard a trivia question from you guys about him. And my boyfriend was like, call them up, tell them his real name. And I get Swiper is like a pretty good name for him. But we call him Leroy. And he's, he's a pretty funny fox to interact with. But

• 48:19Speaker 10

  That people would ask me questions about like, what's it about? Like, do they cash and stuff? And we just think he's got a fetish for shoes. Cause they didn't find like a pile of shoes or anything. We think he's just messing with people. And they're kind of, you know, funny in that way. We've seen some interesting behaviors out of them. We actually had, he's not the only fox to steal something. Um, our tech, Jess hat makes her own Kinko gloves with like pictures on them. And we usually set them on the ground to put our phone on to get awesome videos of their release. Yeah, this is the fox. And, um, she, that fox got released, immediately went to Jess's phone, stole that Kinko glove, ran off. We have an awesome video of us all slow moing, running off after the fox.

• 49:03Speaker 10

  Couldn't find the mitten. The project bought Jess more gloves. But, uh, I like to think, we like to think that she had it up in her den as like artwork. So, but yeah, they're weird little animals. That's great.

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• 52:23Speaker 04

  Great stories about Leroy.

• 52:28Speaker 04

  But before your PhD work, you did some really cool research with your master's degree as well with bears.

• 52:35Speaker 10

  Yeah, yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 04

  Can you talk about some of the stuff you did with bears for your masters?

• 52:40Speaker 10

  For sure. I've been really lucky to have two really awesome projects. And and through the University of Wyoming with my advisor, Joe Holbrook. So my PhD works in collaboration with Game and Fish is mostly primarily with Grand Teton National Park. And then my master's work was collaborative with Wyoming Game and Fish. And so the reason that project came about, we collared black bears and we looked at their movements. But the reason that project came about was actually, shockingly, hunters came to the American Bear Foundation, founder Joe Condeles and Game and Fish. And we're like, you know, we can't get large males over bait sites. So it'd be awesome if you guys could figure that out for us. And of course, hunters know tons about bear behavior. So what we found when I talked to hunters, they're like, yeah, no crap, obviously.

• 53:24Speaker 10

  But that project started in conjunction with American Bear Foundation to kind of understand male behavior around risk-taking and bait sites. But it also started because Wyoming wanted to understand population dynamics of black bears across the state because that hasn't been done. And so they started collaring females, I think in 2015, to get their home range size to put hair snaring work out, to do demographics on them. And then I got attached on to the project mainly primarily for the collar data. And so we are, we have one chapter published, which is awesome. That chapter is pretty nerdy and not super fun to talk about with anyone besides people that like want to nerd about how cool bears are and how individually varied they are.

• 54:05Speaker 10

  But our second chapter is currently in review and that chapter is looking at how bears take risk around bait sites. And it's a pretty cool way to ask this question because obviously bears are hunted. So there's risk, there's mortality risk on the landscape for this large carnivore, obviously. But they bait creates this unique dynamic where this, there's this high reward area too. And so what we actually found was males did avoid baits more than females. And both sexes actually shifted to using bait sites more at night. Males also shifted more at night. So we kind of found. That there is this difference in mortality risk across the black bear population and those

• 54:47Speaker 10

  the bait site information was from the Bighorn Mountains and the Laramie Range specifically. The other chapters on the whole state, but we found that males probably handle mortality risk a little differently than females and younger bears, probably because, you know, hunters don't want to shoot young females, even though they're hard to tell sometimes unless you have a really, really knowledgeable hunter that's over a bait with you. But yeah, so it's pretty interesting to see that young female bears are interacting with that high reward food source more than males. And we also found that obviously hunting pressure varies greatly in the, from the spring to the fall, especially in the Bighorn Mountains where people can't sometimes put out baits differently. And Wyoming has a female quota system, so it kind of depends on if, how many females

• 55:32Speaker 10

  are getting shot at that time, if people are going to shoot the first bear they see. But we found that bears are actually more likely to engage with baits during fall, during hyperphasia, when they want more food, which we had originally hypothesized that you'd take less risk when you have more fat, more food, more resources. But bears are always doing things differently than we expect, which is why I love them. They're kind of a pain to study, but they actually engage more with bait sites, which makes a lot of sense when you think about a fat bear eaten all the time, prepping for denning, which is what we got to do too. But yeah.

• 56:11Speaker 06

  Emily, back to the fox trapping. I'm a trapper myself, so I'm real interested in this. What kind of sets are you using? What kind of traps are you using? And I, I know you mentioned gusto, which I'm real familiar with. What other stuff, like what other types of baits and lures are you using?

• 56:29Speaker 10

  Yeah, we use, so we use tomahawk traps. We trap in the park, so we're restricted to box traps. They're, they're bobcat traps from tomahawk, you know, the like real skinny ones because foxes are real skinny. We use gusto, which we think pulls them in pretty good. And I just want to shout out to my field team here, Austin, Lindsay and Jess, because they're the ones doing the real work. But, you know, they've, they've been out there sticking their hands in gusto and red fox lure, which is that disgusting, sweet smelling lure. But yeah, without snow, it's been harder, but we've been, we know, set the traps up. We put pine boughs around them to create a cozy little home for them. And we use roadkill, ground up roadkill and little bait balls. Um, to try to entice them, but we hope that the bait entices them to go in the back of

• 57:13Speaker 10

  the trap and then really the lure is what's pulling them in from afar. Um, uh, but so far it's been pretty successful. They had a lot of success with it when Emily was first trapping here. Obviously we've got a bigger crew and we have skis, so we're able to get a little bit further away from areas off the roads in the park. Um, oh, and one big thing for trapping is we've noticed that, uh, fox urine is really helpful. We actually just have a giant gallon of it that we refill in little, um, sauce bottles that you buy at Target and we spray it around and we're always talking to each other about like, oh, we need pee and our, the people that come out with us.

• 57:52Speaker 06

  Um, another question, are you catching bobcats at all in those sets?

• 57:56Speaker 10

  No.

• 57:57Speaker 06

  Really?

• 57:57Speaker 10

  Actually, no, and we, we don't, we've never seen a bobcat on camera. We actually, this year, first time, we actually had two different outlines come in to do different traps and eat a little bit of food up front. So that's a, that's surprising. It's been a weird winter though. Um, usually we're not getting anything but foxes and a ton of martins. Martins are the problem children of the park. So we catch them a lot. Um, but this, it's been a weird winter, so it's just been hard to predict. But no, we don't get, we don't even get bobcats on cameras, really, at all.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  What about wolverines? Do they ever interact with your sets?

• 58:30Speaker 10

  No, I think all of us would be so excited if we saw a wolverine on camera. And actually, our helicopter crew that flew for us last year, cause they, they, uh, helicopter fly and capture for, um, wolves and coyotes. They actually saw a wolverine from above, but none of us have been lucky enough to get that on camera. So.

• 58:51Speaker 04

  Well, thanks so much for taking the time to chat with us, Emily. I, uh, I hope you guys catch some foxes tonight and, uh,

• 58:59Speaker 10

  Thanks.

• 59:00Speaker 04

  Look forward to seeing when those next few interesting chapters of your research get published.

• 59:06Speaker 10

  Awesome. Thanks. And Maggie, you gotta come out with us. You gotta work up a fox with us. They're pretty fun.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Will do. I would love to.

• 59:13Speaker 10

  Awesome. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, you guys.

• 59:15Speaker 03

  Thanks, Emily.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  See ya.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  Maggie, you gotta take her up on that offer.

• 59:19Speaker 04

  I know. I want to.

• 59:20Speaker 03

  That was a real offer.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  It was.

• 59:22Speaker 06

  It sounds like a fun job.

• 59:24Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Beautiful scene that she was in there today.

• 59:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 59:27Speaker 03

  Young stuff. Fresh snow on the mountains.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Which is surprising because she's about an hour north of me and it's been mud season winter. It is, uh, we have not had a foot of snow on the ground.

• 59:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 04

  It's about like here.

• 59:40Speaker 06

  I wonder if those bears, like, out and about with this weather, if they're, they just go in and,

• 59:47Speaker 06

  you know, even though it's warm. Should've asked for that.

• 59:50Speaker 03

  Next. Next time we talk to Emily. All right, uh, moving on, our next segment is Meat Eaters Price is Right.

• 1:00:00Speaker 09

  Here it comes from Bozeman, Montana, Meat Eater Radio's most exciting 10 minutes.

• 1:00:06Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:00:06Speaker 09

  It's The Price is Right!

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  Woo!

• 1:00:10Speaker 09

  Seth Morris, come on down! Maggie Hudlow, come on down! You're the next two contestants on Meat Eater Radio's The Price is Right! Now here's your host, Spencer Newho.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  Phil always brings it. All right, this game is really simple. Phil is going to tell you about a product from the Meat Eater Universe and you need to guess its price. The player with the closest answer without going over will be declared the winner. If both players go over, then you'll both be told to try again. And the chat should play along as well because whoever has the closest answer to the correct answer will get a shout out. All right, there are three products up for bid today. Phil, get us started.

• 1:00:56Speaker 09

  Our first item up for bid today is a blue tarp from Harbor Freight. At 11 feet by 11 feet, this iconic cobalt colored tarp gives you 121 square feet of coverage. It's waterproof and weatherproof, laughing in the face of rain, snow and wind. Ha, ha, ha! What will you do with yours? Cover a grill? Maybe keep firewood dry? Build an emergency shelter? Or let it blow into your neighbor's yard? The possibilities are tarpless.

• 1:01:20Speaker 03

  But they won't be tarpless any longer if your price is right. Seth and Maggie, what does that 11 foot by 11 foot blue tarp from Harbor Freight cost?

• 1:01:32Speaker 03

  Don't watch the chat too close because the chat likes to cheat.

• 1:01:36Speaker 04

  I can't hardly read that far.

• 1:01:38Speaker 03

  They're not good students. So Phil is going to keep an eye on the chat though and see who can get closest. Seth, when's the last time that you bought a blue tarp?

• 1:01:49Speaker 06

  Um, trying to think.

• 1:01:52Speaker 03

  Within the last year?

• 1:01:54Speaker 06

  Uh, not within the last year.

• 1:01:56Speaker 03

  In the last two years?

• 1:01:58Speaker 06

  Uh, no, I wouldn't even say in the last two. I have several, but I bought them several years ago.

• 1:02:05Speaker 03

  And they just keep right on.

• 1:02:06Speaker 06

  I have a couple that I need to replace actually, so maybe I'll be buying one in 2026. Actually, I'm sure I will be.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  When's the last time you bought a blue tarp?

• 1:02:13Speaker 04

  A blue tarp?

• 1:02:14Speaker 03

  A blue tarp.

• 1:02:15Speaker 04

  They just exist in the garage. You don't buy blue tarps. There's just, there is an endless pile of blue tarps that you grab from.

• 1:02:24Speaker 03

  That's right. Of all different sizes and some of them have paint on them. Some are missing the little rivet, you know, where you tie things down. Yeah, everyone's garage just has a blue tarp portal that produces them. So we're going to see who knows the price. It's 11 foot by 11 foot. Are you two ready?

• 1:02:43Speaker 06

  Ready.

• 1:02:44Speaker 03

  Go ahead and reveal your answer. Seth says 9.95. Maggie says $22.

• 1:02:51Speaker 04

  11 plus 11.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  The correct answer is 9.99. Seth Morris, four pennies off. Well done Seth. That is going to be hard to beat. How did the chat do Phil?

• 1:03:05Speaker 06

  Pretty well. We had several correct answers around the money from Harrison, Mike, JS Co., Ryan, Daniel. Great job, everybody.

• 1:03:14Speaker 03

  Lot of blue tarp purchasers out there knowing that they cost exactly 9.99. That gives Seth Morris the first point in today's game of Price is Right. Art Phil, what's next?

• 1:03:26Speaker 04

  Told you I was going to be bad at this game.

• 1:03:29Speaker 09

  Is your grand foyer feeling a little empty? Well, how about adding this one of a kind piece to it? Our next item up for bid is an entire plesiosaur skeleton. Wow, Jesus. This 70 million year old dinosaur was found in the Sahara Desert of northern Africa. It measures 18 feet and weighs 500 pounds, which actually makes it a small specimen for a species that grows 50 feet long. It has an elegantly long neck, streamlined marine body, four dramatic paddle-like flippers, and a fierce tooth-lined jaw. This isn't just a conversation piece, it's a con- servation centerpiece.

• 1:04:04Speaker 03

  Oh, that was a typo. That's supposed to be confer- uh, yeah, conversation centerpiece.

• 1:04:08Speaker 09

  Okay, let's take that again. This isn't just a conversation piece, it's a conversation centerpiece.

• 1:04:15Speaker 03

  That's right, Phil, and this Jurassic piece of sea life can be yours if the price is right. Seth and Maggie, what do you think it costs to own an entire dinosaur?

• 1:04:25Speaker 06

  Um, I was, I was, this is like a little hint, I guess, but I was, uh, the Hell Creek Cooligan Instagram page we were talking about, I saw they sold a T-Rex tooth the other day for like 35 grand.

• 1:04:38Speaker 03

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:04:41Speaker 06

  I don't know if that helps you at all.

• 1:04:42Speaker 03

  Seth has a reference. No, it does not. It's 18 feet long and weighs 500 pounds. Uh, and this was priced by the fine folks at the Fossil Shack in Utah. They do great work. If anyone in our listening audience is looking to purchase an entire dang dinosaur, they have multiple for sale. Good to know. Yeah, Maggie and Seth, do you have your answer?

• 1:05:06Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:05:07Speaker 03

  Go ahead and reveal your answer. Seth says 4.2 million. Maggie says 3.1 million. The correct answer is lower than both of those. Take another stab at it, so we know it's less than $3 million. They're coming up with their second batch of answers. An entire plesiosaur skeleton. Maggie, are you ready? Reveal your answers. Seth says 1.8 million, Maggie says 1.7. The correct answer is lower than both of those. Take another swing at it. Uh, we have had three tries before in The Price is Right, we have never had four. We'll see if we can set a record with Seth and Maggie today.

• 1:05:51Speaker 03

  It is less than 1.7 million. Seth has his answer. Maggie, do you have yours?

• 1:06:00Speaker 04

  Those are all nines.

• 1:06:01Speaker 03

  Reveal your answer. Maggie says $1 less than a million. And Seth says $1.

• 1:06:08Speaker 09

  I like your strategy Seth.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  The correct answer is $475,000, giving Seth his second point. And the victory, he was only $475,000 off, but that was good enough. Yeah, that was from there.

• 1:06:23Speaker 04

  We really went on opposite sides of that one.

• 1:06:25Speaker 03

  God, that's cheaper. It's way cheaper than I thought. That is cheaper.

• 1:06:29Speaker 09

  We had several people get pretty close, but the closest without going over, I believe, was Wonderwells with 449.

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  Well done, Wonderwells. I'm gonna go buy one of those tonight. I mean, if we all pitched in, maybe. Yeah. Seth has two points. He's wrapped up the victory. We'll see if he can get the clean sweep and get this third one correct as well. All right, Phil, what do we have next?

• 1:06:52Speaker 09

  Are you struggling to find the perfect last minute gift for your Valentine?

• 1:06:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Speaker 09

  Yes. Well, how about getting them 60 pounds of live crayfish, which everyone knows is the most romantic of the freshwater crustaceans?

• 1:07:02Speaker 03

  Of course.

• 1:07:03Speaker 09

  These live mudbugs would make our first guest today proud. They are rushed to your door with overnight shipping straight from Louisiana. This 60-pound batch has roughly 1,200 crayfish that will feed 10 to 20 people. Order by 4 p.m. today to have them in time for Valentine's. Here's the fine print. Due to DNR restrictions, we can't ship to Alaska, Hawaii, Washington, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, or Minnesota. Oregon law requires crayfish transport permit not included.

• 1:07:25Speaker 04

  That fine print reading was so impressive, Phil.

• 1:07:29Speaker 03

  If you don't know on TV, they always speed that up. They hit it at like, you know, times 2.25 speed. Phil, he just did that. All organic. How many pounds?

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  I was gonna ask the same.

• 1:07:39Speaker 03

  60 pounds. 60 pounds of live crayfish. I got my calculator out. Getting shipped right to your door.

• 1:07:45Speaker 04

  I don't think you needed to beat me, Seth.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  We're not kidding about them being the most sexy shellfish. In Jamaican culture, crawdads are considered an aphrodisiac with local lore saying that eating crayfish will help you get lucky. Phil, can you deliver this next line with a Jamaican accent?

• 1:08:02Speaker 09

  Yeah, I'd love to. Here we go. Yeah, man. Gonna get my Valentine some crawdaddies. One love.

• 1:08:08Speaker 03

  Oh, man. Couldn't trip up Phil. Phil did not want to do the Jamaican accent. He said that would get him canceled and Phil is uncancellable. What if, what if Phil, what if I was like singing along to Shaggy? And I, it was very respectful and honorable and I'm pure of heart.

• 1:08:26Speaker 04

  Can singing along to Shaggy be respectful and honorable?

• 1:08:29Speaker 03

  If you're singing, uh, you know, wasn't me, of course you could do that pure of heart. Uh, it's a song about cheating.

• 1:08:35Speaker 09

  We'll let you do that during the finale extravaganza.

• 1:08:38Speaker 03

  Okay, alright. So Phil says it's okay. That's, that's when it's fine.

• 1:08:41Speaker 09

  Well, we've, we've blocked out three hours for Shaggy karaoke, so.

• 1:08:45Speaker 04

  Thank goodness.

• 1:08:46Speaker 03

  Now you are bidding on an extra spicy batch, which is their hottest option. The shipping cost is calculated as though they're arriving at MeatEater HQ. So it's 60 pounds of live crayfish, extra spicy, getting shipped overnight, right here to our front door.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  How are they live and extra spicy?

• 1:09:06Speaker 03

  I imagine they send you a pack with it that you add to the boil afterwards. I don't think they're pre-seasoning the live crayfish.

• 1:09:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:13Speaker 03

  I don't know their methods.

• 1:09:14Speaker 09

  I'm gonna call him out because he's like, he's a, I've seen his name in the chat a lot. He watches the show many weeks. His name's Garrett Springer. Um, and I know that he cheated. So Garrett, shame on you. I'm calling you out.

• 1:09:26Speaker 03

  Okay, you've been identified. 60 pounds. And this, this, Seth, you said you are looking for the perfect Valentine's gift. Live crayfish.

• 1:09:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:34Speaker 06

  It's not too late.

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  It's not. And when I said 4:00 PM, that means 4:00 PM tomorrow for our podcast audience. They will literally get it to you overnight. I don't, I don't understand how they pull that off. But the perfect Valentine's gift is awaiting you. Do you have your answers? Go ahead and reveal your answers. Seth says $360. He got out his calculator to do his math. Maggie says $240.

• 1:10:01Speaker 03

  The correct answer is $648.

• 1:10:06Speaker 06

  Holy smokes.

• 1:10:06Speaker 03

  Twice the price that Seth thought it was, but good enough to give him the point and the clean sweep.

• 1:10:12Speaker 06

  Clean sweep. Sorry about your luck.

• 1:10:13Speaker 03

  I saw that coming. That is wrong. $620 for the crayfish and $28 for the overnight shipping.

• 1:10:24Speaker 09

  That's right. See, Garrett included the price without the shipping and he got it right on the money. So, uh, that's why I'm calling him out. Maybe he's just incredibly smart. He's a Rain Man over there. Um, but I, let's see, we two F S guessed 625 and we had someone else guess 600. Robert did, so.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Thanks for playing along, everybody. And remember, help control the pet population. Have your pets spayed and neutered. All right. That brings us to the end of today's show. Phil, let's get some final feedback from the chat.

• 1:10:51Speaker 09

  Yeah. Jacob asks, Spencer, how is your ham special light stash? And when do we kick off the campaign to get it back?

• 1:10:56Speaker 03

  Um, I have multiple cases left. Seth was just in my garage and saw them.

• 1:11:01Speaker 09

  Yep.

• 1:11:02Speaker 03

  Uh, of, of where they are kept. The problem is they are starting to not taste like ham special light. So I just had to start rifling through them. I had this very romantic idea about, you know, maybe if I have kids someday, when my son is old enough to have his first beard, you know, like 16 years old. Give him a skunky ass ham special light. But I don't think they can make it.

• 1:11:22Speaker 09

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 03

  If I, if we hatch to that baby tomorrow.

• 1:11:26Speaker 06

  Pack of cigarettes.

• 1:11:26Speaker 03

  Uh, I'd have to wait 16 more years. That's, that's too long. They're not going to make it. So I'm, I, in the next year, next two years, I need to get rid of it.

• 1:11:34Speaker 06

  Maybe you could share some during the, uh, the, the grand finale.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  Now there is an idea, Seth. Well said. Phil, what else do you have from the chat?

• 1:11:42Speaker 09

  Yes. Uh, this is from Ryden. He's asking when Blood Trail, season two is coming out, the hit show from Jordan Sillers. And, uh, it's, we were hard at work on it. And by we, I mean, Jordan and, uh, Jake are, uh, the illustrious producer of this show as well. He is the editor of that show and they're, uh, they're, they're cranking out season two right now. So stay tuned. I don't know if there's an exact.

• 1:12:01Speaker 03

  This year though, right? 2026?

• 1:12:03Speaker 09

  Yes, 100%. Uh, if Jake pipes in here, he says April 16th. I believe. So that's not a, it's not a firm date, but I think, uh, around there is when you can expect it.

• 1:12:13Speaker 03

  This spring.

• 1:12:14Speaker 09

  Yes. Um, has any of you fished Lake Havasu?

• 1:12:19Speaker 09

  Nope.

• 1:12:19Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:12:20Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 1:12:20Speaker 03

  We had a trivia question about it before where I think the world record shell cracker was caught there though. Someone was asking about fishing Lake Havasu. Uh, maybe try to catch the next world record shell cracker while you're there.

• 1:12:34Speaker 09

  Um, yeah, that's, there might be some more questions, but Price is Right, I'm not, you know, the chat is, it's taking over. So, um, I don't have many flagged right now. So if you guys want to get questions in here at the end of the show, I will say that we had a, um, we wished good luck to McCullough on her first Havelina hunt during the show last week and she was successful.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  Hell, nice.

• 1:12:57Speaker 09

  And we were sent some pictures and I, I'm gonna.

• 1:12:59Speaker 03

  We can share those next week, Phil.

• 1:13:01Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 1:13:01Speaker 03

  If not convenient.

• 1:13:02Speaker 09

  That's fine.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:13:03Speaker 09

  Oh, yes. We had some questions about all the, all the sportsman's shows happening, uh, um, this season. Is anyone from the crew gonna be in Harrisburg? Is Randall going to Harrisburg?

• 1:13:12Speaker 03

  I think Randall is going to the one in Utah, the Western Hunt Expo.

• 1:13:16Speaker 09

  He's going to Western.

• 1:13:17Speaker 06

  Brent Reeves was in Harrisburg. I don't know if he's still there, but he was at the case booth.

• 1:13:21Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:13:22Speaker 09

  Okay.

• 1:13:22Speaker 06

  Um, he was there.

• 1:13:23Speaker 03

  That's a tricky show, cause that one's like two whole weeks, isn't it?

• 1:13:26Speaker 06

  It's 10 days.

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  10 days.

• 1:13:28Speaker 06

  Um, if you are there though, and you want to check out some Meat Eater merch and some First Light gear, uh, hit up Center Boot Company booth. Say hi to my mom. She's there.

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  Did you go to that when you were a kid? Was that like a event on your calendar?

• 1:13:42Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:42Speaker 03

  What did you do there? Did you, were there some trout for you to catch in tanks?

• 1:13:45Speaker 06

  Uh, there was that. I never did that, but, um, we would just walk around and look at stuff and, you know, like.

• 1:13:53Speaker 03

  Fantasy.

• 1:13:53Speaker 06

  Boat collector dudes would be there and Lee and Tiffany and yeah, you just go look at boats and look at all, there's like a whole call section. You like check out the new calls for the year. Just all, yeah, it's, it's a huge show. I think it's the biggest east.

• 1:14:08Speaker 03

  It's enormous.

• 1:14:09Speaker 06

  Uh, it might be the biggest in the country. Definitely biggest east of the Mississippi.

• 1:14:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. If you have a trade show in your neck of the woods, you should go check it out. Uh, the, the turkey one that we're going to this week. That one is like the biggest assault on all of your senses. Like just.

• 1:14:23Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  The sounds of all the calls. It's constant. Um, just the, the bright lights and all the, you know, the camouflage, everything happening there, the smells, because, uh, you know, there's a lot of cooking happening there. Uh, go, go check one out. You'll have some tired feet after the day. You'll be happy. You saw everything. Anything else, Phil?

• 1:14:40Speaker 09

  Oh, yeah. I have to answer this one. I'm so sorry. It's, it's video game related. Um, Brandon is asking if I ever played Guitar Hero. Brandon, I was Guitar Hero.

• 1:14:53Speaker 03

  That is true. What was your favorite song? You might still be Guitar Hero.

• 1:14:57Speaker 09

  That picture I showed during Radio Live, either a week or two ago, from the band room with a trombone in my hand and the, uh, and the long emo hair. What you, what I didn't say was that after the band, I would throw my trombone in the back of my 97 Geo Metro, drive home and play Guitar Hero. And, you know, just beat all my high scores that I set the night before. I, I never stopped playing Guitar Hero. I played Rock Band. Uh, I got every single achievement in Rock Band 2. There's one called the Endless Setlist where you have to play 80, like 85 songs in a row without pausing the game. I did it.

• 1:15:28Speaker 03

  Oh geez. How many hours is that?

• 1:15:30Speaker 09

  It was a long time, but there are some that have instrumental breaks. So that's when I sprint to the bathroom and then come, or like, you know, like a drum solo or, you know, where the guitar's not, not happening. You, you, I had to, I had to plan those. I had like a little, like a notepad and I was like, take a break during this song. There's a long. And just a few months ago, I bought, uh, an, an electric drum kit and, um, a converter. So I can play Rock Band with like a real.

• 1:15:53Speaker 03

  Family.

• 1:15:53Speaker 09

  With a real drum set. Uh, I tried to get my family into it. They don't care. It's, it's a very sad, um, uh, you know.

• 1:16:01Speaker 03

  Phil's a solo act. Yeah. He's a, he's the headliner and the opening act. He's everything.

• 1:16:07Speaker 09

  Yeah. It's, it's a fulfilling life.

• 1:16:08Speaker 03

  What, what was your favorite song, Phil?

• 1:16:10Speaker 09

  Well, I, I, that's, how, how do I choose that? I mean, I really liked, uh, from, if we're gonna go Rock Band one, well Guitar Hero one, Hangar 18. From Megadeth. And was that one or two?

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 1:16:24Speaker 09

  Hmm. This is tough. That might be two. I might be getting my lore mixed up, but any of the metal songs for Guitar Hero were, were the most fun because it was just purely guitar. So those, those are a lot of fun to play.

• 1:16:33Speaker 03

  Phil is so good that one time, I don't remember what establishment we were at, but there was a Guitar Hero arcade game.

• 1:16:40Speaker 09

  Oh yeah. I was at the Tap, the Tap House on college there.

• 1:16:42Speaker 03

  Phil played it, didn't put up a great score and he said that the machine was broke.

• 1:16:47Speaker 09

  Well, no, you're making me, you're making me sound, you're making me sound like a sore loser. I can just say from, from literally from, from two decades of playing rhythm games and I know when a machine is not calibrated correctly. And unfortunately the greasy arcade cabinet in the back of the, the brewery wasn't calibrated correctly. I, I, I, I don't want to be one of those people that says the controller's broken when I lose, but guess what? The controller was broken.

• 1:17:11Speaker 03

  You know, that's how good Phil is. I did believe him when he told me that. I had no doubt that he was right and the machine was wrong.

• 1:17:17Speaker 09

  Uh, okay. Well, I'm so, I'm sorry I took that much time to talk about.

• 1:17:20Speaker 03

  That's okay. That is the end of this week's show. We're gonna end right there. We'll see you back here same time and place next week. Bye now.

• 1:17:27Speaker 09

  Later. Oh no, I didn't play the outro. We're still here. Oh no.

• 1:17:37Steven Rinella?

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• 1:20:00Steven Rinella?

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