How to Spot Billion-Dollar Opportunities | Marc Lore (Archived Episode)

On this episode of Impact Theory with Tom Bilyeu, serial entrepreneur and multi-billionaire Marc Lore explains how to raise capital when you are just starting out, how to hire and lead employees, and how to make progress towards your goals no matter what you are right now. SHOW NOTES: Marc credits his attitude of “billions or body bags” with his success [2:26] Tom and Marc discuss having your back against the wall and being aggressive [5:16] Marc hires self-motivated people and then makes sure he doesn’t micromanage them [7:55] Marc looks for traits instead of experience for start-up companies [8:58] Never ask a question in an interview that someone could have prepared for [10:52] People who went to really good schools have a hard time taking risk [14:15] Marc shares the story of applying to a business school he had almost no chance at [15:48] Marc never accepts that something is impossible unless it literally has a 0% probability [18:48] Marc believes that you are born and raised with some traits, but most can be developed [20:19] Marc focuses on caring, kindness and empathy when raising his kids [22:27] When Marc was a kid he was quite entrepreneurial, and got into stocks at 10 years old [23:26] Marc talks about why his first investors were willing to take a risk on him [26:21] Tom and Marc discuss how to help someone build desire [27:48] Marc explains how he deals with doubters [31:04] Great execution is better than great ideas [33:35] The way to deal with failure is not to dwell on it, but be objective about progress [35:49] People want to be understood, and empathy is the most important leadership quality [37:23] Entrepreneurs should be thinking about vision, capital and people over 80% of the time [39:18] For core values to be core, there have to be 3 or less [41:29] Marc shows how he raised money in the beginning [43:18] Marc shares the impact he wants to have on the world [46:23] [Original air date: 7-14-20] CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS: Range Rover: Explore the Range Rover Sport at https://landroverUSA.com https://landroverusa.com Miro: Bring your teams to Miro’s revolutionary Innovation Workspace and be faster from idea to outcome at https://miro.com. Legal Zoom: Launch, run, and protect your business at https://www.legalzoom.com/ – use promo code 'IMPACT' for 10% off! Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact FOLLOW MARC: TWITTER: https://bit.ly/2PJmaXU https://bit.ly/2PJmaXU%C2%A0 What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business: join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business: see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox: sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/ If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. Join me live on myTwitch stream https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ. I'm live daily from 6:30 to 8:30 am PT athttps://cms.megaphone.fm/organizations/0482bfe8-8502-11ed-af5d-3bdc320068d7/podcasts/0a41f61a-9ddf-11ed-9eb7-dbb3a40775f5/episodes/8ac68366-8a85-11ef-bb65-abca3ffdcf54/www.twitch.tv/tombilyeuwww.twitch.tv/tombilyeu https://impacttheory.co/4fitmnJ LISTEN TO IMPACT THEORY AD FREE + BONUS EPISODES on APPLE PODCASTS:apple.co/impacttheory http://apple.co/impacttheory FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

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• 1:08Speaker 01

  You're listening to Impact Theory.

• 1:10Tom Bilyeu?

  Impact Theory. Impact Theory. Impact Theory. Impact, baby! Hey, everybody. Welcome to Impact Theory. Today's guest is a profoundly successful serial entrepreneur who has gone head to head with some of the largest companies on the planet and won. Fortune Magazine named him one of the smartest people in technology, and given his unprecedented string of successes, it is not hard to understand why. He's founded and sold four massively disruptive companies, including The Pit, which challenged online giant eBay and had a successful exit just two years after beginning. He also co-founded diapers.com, destroying the myth that people would never buy diapers online,

• 1:52Tom Bilyeu?

  and establishing it as such a powerful player in the industry that it was acquired by Amazon for a staggering $550 million. And most recently, he founded Jet.com, which proved that it is possible to compete directly with the juggernaut, Amazon. And build an enormous business in the process. Under his leadership, Jet.com raced at breakneck speed to a billion dollars in sales and subsequently sold to Walmart for a dizzying $3.3 billion. Again, after just two years in business. Now the CEO of Walmart E-commerce, this Wharton Business School grad is once again demonstrating that the right idea executed well can thrive against any competitor.

• 2:37Tom Bilyeu?

  So please, help me in welcoming the man, Ernst & Young, named Regional Entrepreneur of the Year, the former wannabe farmer and now storied entrepreneur, Mark Lorrie.

• 2:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Welcome, man.

• 2:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks.

• 2:53Tom Bilyeu?

  Good to have you on the show.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  Great to be here.

• 2:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And dude, the fact that you did it once, already amazing. To do it two, three, four times is pretty crazy. What is it that you understand that makes you so successful that you think other people are missing?

• 3:10Speaker 02

  I don't know necessarily other people are missing it. I'm willing to do whatever it takes, like create a situation where it feels like life or death.

• 3:20Tom Bilyeu?

  Billions or body bags?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Billions or body bags, yeah. No, but in all seriousness, that I think is distinguishing characteristic because all four of the businesses, they were all turned out to be successes. But if I didn't put it into that extra gear, I think none of them would have made it. Like, I really think you have to, you have to be willing to go all the way.

• 3:45Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you pull that off, though? Like, the first time, I get it because it really is, I know you left banking, you didn't exactly have a safety net. And so the first one really is sort of billions or body bags. But after that, I mean, you've had some huge wins.

• 3:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:58Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you recapture that?

• 4:00Speaker 02

  I always... Figure out a way to put myself in a position where it can't not work. And so, you know, the first one, it was not only quitting, but I also put every dollar in my bank account into that first company.

• 4:12Tom Bilyeu?

  Did you have kids at that point?

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:14Tom Bilyeu?

  So what do you tell people?

• 4:15Speaker 02

  I just had a kid.

• 4:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, the number of people that want to be entrepreneurs that come up to me and they say, "Look, I've got this litany of things. You know, I'm married now, I have kids, I can't really do this." How did you position yourself financially and emotionally to pull that one off?

• 4:31Speaker 02

  I just convinced myself that I would do this for, you know, a year or two, give it a real go.

• 4:37Tom Bilyeu?

  Because you had that much saved up, or?

• 4:40Speaker 02

  The idea was to take everything I saved, invest it in the company, take a salary. And then, but I still needed to raise capital to kind of continue on. And so, I hoped that I'd be able to do that. And if I was able to, then I'd be able to sustain. Worst case, wasn't able to raise money, had no more money in savings, and had to go back into the workforce. Did I think that I can get back in? Like, was I, you know, past the point where I have no return? And I thought, "No, you know, I'm seven years into my career. Worst case, I can go back and get a, you know, normal job again." But it was, that was too much of a safety net, you know, you could always go back.

• 5:23Speaker 02

  It was investing every penny of savings into the business. That was the real catalyst for making sure that it worked. And then, in the subsequent business, it was less about the money that was at risk and more friends and family money. So every relative, every friend, everybody I knew, pretty much had a stake in the startup. And I just didn't want to disappoint all the people that I love and care about, you know. But, so, that drove me more than anything.

• 5:52Tom Bilyeu?

  In that moment, so, I find that pressure like that can be powerful for people, or it can be really destructive. Do you think about framing it in a certain way that makes it powerful for you? Like, are you sitting there putting actual words behind the idea? Or is it just this overwhelming sense of like, "Yo, I can't fuck this up"?

• 6:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just, it just brings out abilities you didn't know you had, basically. I mean, just knowing that you need to like go all in here and do everything you possibly can and work as hard as possible, you know, to make it happen. It wasn't an anxiety like, oh, I can't fail, I can't fail. It wasn't like that. It was more just, it's like you don't really think about it. You just go. It's sort of, you know, if something were to happen in the moment, you know, that was life threatening, you'd react in a certain way that you needed to react without having to think about it. That's sort of the way it is.

• 6:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Do you consider yourself an aggressive person?

• 6:48Speaker 02

  No.

• 6:49Tom Bilyeu?

  It's interesting. I'm not aggressive either, not by nature, but I have found in business, it is like, so when I think about that story of you really backing yourself against the wall or having your friends and family's money in the business, and you're like, I really don't want to mess this up. For me to tap into the aggression, which is something, that's what I had to learn. So for me to go from an employee to an entrepreneur, it was a game of learning to be aggressive. It was being bold, striking, even if I was the youngest person or the least educated, that I had to be able to step up to the plate, to learn, to try something, to be willing to fail, all that. So for me, I really had to cultivate an aggressiveness about myself to be able to do that. So taking things like family money or whatever, which is not my story, but things like that

• 7:34Tom Bilyeu?

  and saying, all right, look, like actually talking to myself, look, man, you're not going to fuck this up. You're not going to let these people down. You're going to do it, but it's not going to weaken you like this is going to make you stronger. You got this, stay focused. Do you have an internal dialogue like that? Or do you have a different approach to it?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  I didn't really think about it day to day. It was more just, you know, I can imagine if it were the equivalent, you know, the analogy of like being in some sort of bike race or marathon or something and you basically just... Bike as hard and as fast as you can for as long as your body will allow you to do it. It's like just push yourself so that when you get across the finish line, you're like, I just couldn't have gone any faster on this day, right? It's just everything I had went into it. And so, once you put yourself kind of into that gear, you're in that gear, you're not really thinking about it. You're just, I'm just running as hard as I possibly can to leave nothing on the table, you know?

• 8:31Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you instill that in your teams, or do you?

• 8:34Speaker 02

  I look to hire people that are self-motivated, who are more missionary than mercenary, so it's not about...

• 8:40Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you mean by that?

• 8:42Speaker 02

  I mean, the primary motivation is not money. The primary motivation is to make an impact on the world. And the company has a mission, it's got a vision, it's typically bold. And you want to find people that really believe in it and want to, you know, make a contribution and be a part of something bigger than themselves. And they're willing to work hard at it. And yes, money will come, and they want money, but it's like secondary. Some people, you know, like having worked in banking for seven years is very different. It's, "I'll do whatever you want, just pay me." And so, find people that are really self-motivated, get them in the right position, and then empower them. Give them all the information, be transparent, trust them,

• 9:23Speaker 02

  and then just empower them to run and not micromanage or get in their way. And I find you have incredible leverage when you have great people and you kind of let them do their thing.

• 9:35Tom Bilyeu?

  If you had to give a few key characteristics to what makes somebody great, so one thing I'll say is very difficult is hiring, especially in a hyper-growth company, you're having to hire so fast. What do you, what are some key elements that you look for? Is it like personality traits? Do you look for different personality traits for different jobs? Like, how do you go about that?

• 9:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've learned so many lessons along the way. And where I come out is, and I see this happen, a lot of startups, you'll be looking for like a certain position, like I need a supply chain person to do X. And the initial...

• 10:08Speaker 02

  You start from this place of trying to find someone that's done that before. The chances of find somebody that's actually done it before, that's in the top sort of 10% for that job, and get that person to quit their job and come work and take the risk of a startup. I found that that's, it's too hard, too much of a unicorn. And certainly, like you said, if you're hiring lots of people, you're not going to get lots of people like that. So then, does that mean you just go after mediocre people? How do you solve the problem? What I've done is I say, okay, find the smartest person I can that exhibits the traits that I look to hire for. You know, and the traits would be, I use the SPOT Tech,

• 10:48Speaker 02

  which is smart, passionate, optimistic, tenacious, adaptable, kind, and empathetic. And those are sort of the traits that I look for. And the entire interview process is trying to make sure that, that people align to those traits, because I find that those people are more missionary, they are more self-motivated, they want to be empowered, they want to do big things. And if you find great people like that, after six months, or 12 months, or 24 months, they want to becoming some of the top people in their field, because they learn it, and they've got all these other traits there. So that's what I found.

• 11:27Tom Bilyeu?

  I am desperate to know what your interview process looks like. How the hell, in an interview, do you figure out SPOT Tech? SPOT Tech?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:36Tom Bilyeu?

  So how do you, how do you suss that out? What are some key questions? Do you have them walk in and it's amazed? Like, how do you figure out if people are adaptable?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Here's a secret to interviewing, for me at least, is never to ask a question that somebody could have already prepared in advance.

• 11:52Tom Bilyeu?

  Okay.

• 11:52Speaker 02

  So that's kind of levels the playing field. So nothing like, what's your strength, what's your weakness? Tell me about some great thing you've done. A lot of that is just people that prepare, and they have good answers. And some people have mentors or other people that have been through it and say, hey, listen, let's prepare, let's go through it. I do it with my daughter. My daughter had the interview, I'm like, okay, we're gonna like, prepare for this. There we go. Give you a strength, give you a weakness. You know, I went through the whole thing. She won an interview. She nailed it. It was like the same questions. I kind of don't like that. I don't think you could in an hour, which is typical length of an interview, suss out whether somebody has these traits. If you're just asking sort of. The other thing that happens too, I find is that there's also like an unconscious bias. You know, toward people that do have more connections.

• 12:36Speaker 02

  You know, do have parents that have kind of been there, done that before. You know, I was the first person in my family to go to college, very different than my daughters now. And so to avoid their unconscious bias and also to to make sure that you take level playing field. I ask questions that basically you couldn't prepare for. And really trying to open people up to see who they're. Yeah, I'll give you a great example. So one that I ask is,

• 13:04Speaker 02

  what's the minimum amount of money that you would take? To walk backwards everywhere you go for a week. Can't tell anybody why you're doing it. If they ask you to say, I can't tell you. You have to go to work. You have to go out on the weekend. It has to be a normal week. Backwards everywhere. The only thing I'll do is I'll guarantee you safety. And it's after tax dollars. What's the minimum amount of money that you would actually take? Like if you, if I wrote you a check right now, you would go and do it. But the minimum, people will come up with with numbers and I'll just press them. I'll say, somebody says, you know, I would, I would do it for five grand. I'm like, I don't believe you do for five grand. No, this had, this has to be actually, you know, I would, I would. And then I, then I go and leave the room and come back with a check.

• 13:47Speaker 02

  I start writing it out. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no, I didn't know you would actually, I said, I gave you, I told you. I told you, you know, so basically just having the discussion like this is good. I ask people questions like, if you could only be one of the two, what would you be?

• 14:05Speaker 02

  You'd be known to be very nice, but not very smart, or very smart and not very nice. You can only pick one.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  And I find it's kind of interesting. Some people like, oh, of course, you know, I can never not be nice to people. So even though I don't want to be smart, I'll pick very nice and not that smart. And other people like, there's no way I'm going to be that smart. So, and it's kind of interesting. It's probably like, I'd say it's probably sixty, forty. Um, asking that question.

• 14:33Tom Bilyeu?

  Which is the sixty?

• 14:34Speaker 02

  Sixty is nice, and I don't know how many people align or just think that's what I want to hear, but probably sixty will say the nice, and that's, that's one of the things I'm looking for. I definitely want people, given the choice, to prioritize being nice over being smart. It's more just to get people opening up, get them talking about real things and seeing how they problem solve, how they approach situations.

• 14:53Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you deal with employees that have like a real different tolerance for risk when you're asking them to take a big swing or to take a chance with you on a new business?

• 15:04Speaker 02

  I think it's really tough to ask people that are already in the organization, that haven't been vetted through a process of, you know, are you comfortable taking risk? And ask them to take risk? No, it doesn't work. You don't want somebody to do something that's contradictory to their, their nature. You have to find the right people up front. That's why in a startup, you have a clean slate. I found something really interesting is that people that have typically gone to really good schools and done really well, grade wise, they're used to getting As on everything, have a much harder time taking risk because they just, they look at something that has a low probability of success and say, well, why would I do that? I don't, I'm, you know, I'm used to getting As and that's ninety-five percent, so why

• 15:48Speaker 02

  would I do something that has twenty percent? Well, because the outcome is two hundred X or five hundred X, that's why you do it. But a lot of people just can't get comfortable with that. I think that's the difference between an entrepreneur or not, somebody who's comfortable with a low probability of success with a huge outcome, and then you go after it and you're okay failing. I failed so many times as a kid, whether it be academically or otherwise, that I was so comfortable with failing that it was not even a constant, you know, it just meant that combined with just being chill generally about things not working out, the combination of that allowed me to like freely just take risks without any regard for. For like, maybe failing.

• 16:27Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:08Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:53Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:36Tom Bilyeu?

  I love the story that you have about applying to college and the non-zero probability. I thought that was really, really a powerful story. Walk us through that.

• 18:45Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah, so, you know, I didn't have good grades in high school. I really didn't.

• 18:53Speaker 02

  It was, this is funny. I tell people this and nobody believes this story, but it was sophomore year in high school. I remember walking down sort of the corridor and somebody's like, hey, where are you gonna go to college or what are you thinking about? I said, oh, I'm probably just gonna go to Harvard. And they said Harvard, like, you can't, you're not gonna get in Harvard. And I was like, what do you, what do you mean? Don't you just like kind of send your thing in and pay and go? Like, no, you have to actually apply and they have to accept you. That was sophomore year in high school is when I learned that. Which is crazy these days because I've been talking to my daughters since they were like, you know, this yay big about college. So, but yeah, so I didn't really know. So I didn't, I wasn't applying myself in school, didn't have good grades.

• 19:35Speaker 02

  And my dad had asked me, this is, I did all the applying myself, went to the colleges myself, parents didn't know what was going on. And then after the deadline, this is like in January, February, the deadline was like, you know, November, December, applying to college. And my dad said, hey, how's it going, how's the college stuff coming? You know, where are you gonna apply? I said, oh, I already did. I applied. I'm done. He's like, oh, you applied already? What, did you, did you apply to Wharton? Because he knew that I knew that that was, I talked about that business school and I wanted to do business and stuff. Like, oh, no, I didn't, I didn't apply to Wharton. There's no way I could have gotten in. And he said, oh, really? There's no way you could have gotten in? Zero, zero. And I said, well, I don't know, but zero is pretty close to zero though.

• 20:20Speaker 02

  And I said, there's a lot of essays and all this stuff. He's like, oh, so it's, so it's, so it's work? You, you didn't want to do the work? I said, no, I'm trying to do the work. It's just, it's basically, my guidance counselor told me I can't get in. Objectively, I don't think I can get in, so, you know, I didn't apply. And he's like, alright. And he was looking at me and I'm like, alright, you're right, dad. I'm gonna apply, you know? And, and this was after the deadline. So this is like two months later. I went, did all the essays, did the whole application, did everything, sent it in. I never forget, it was like May when you sort of got the letter, went out to the mailbox, I saw it, it said, you know, Wharton School. I ran in, I opened it up. Yeah, I got rejected.

• 21:01Speaker 02

  But it really taught me a great lesson because when I was opening that envelope, it really felt non-zero to me. Even though it was like I had no chance of getting in and it was after the fact, you know, and it probably was as close to zero as anything could possibly get, but I just felt like happy that I went through the process. Nothing had changed, it was still the same probability. But I was really happy I went through the process and took a shot and I was actually, I had it at bat. That letter, that chance, that it could, there's a possibility it could have, it could have said accepted. Although, it's as close as you want. So I've just taken that in life in general. It's like, just, I'm not going to accept that it can't be done unless somebody proves it's a zero probability. And often the case, you can't prove it's zero.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  There's always some non-zero probability. And it's typically the stuff that has, that's really close to non-zero, nobody else is touching, that's where the big opportunities are.

• 21:55Tom Bilyeu?

  When I heard that story, man, I was really blown away. Now, of course, I know the punchline of your life is that it all works out okay. So, hearing that story after seeing what you go on to do with your life and really thinking, wow, the vast majority of humanity, dude, when they get that letter and they're rejected, they're like, "See dad, I told you, I never should have wasted my time." And the fact that you take that lesson to be, "In that moment I held the envelope, it went from when I didn't even apply, I knew guaranteed I wasn't getting in, to now like there's actually a shot. And so I'm going to pursue that in the future, that I'm actually going to try things." I think that's really powerful. And I want to tie this back to something you said earlier. So, part of what you look for, for people is adaptability.

• 22:37Tom Bilyeu?

  You also talked about like, you're sort of, some people have a personality this way, some are that way, and don't, don't put people against their nature. So how much of that, like, I want to believe, literally my life is predicated on the belief that someone watching this right now, hearing you tell that story, they will now forever think the way that you think about non-zero probabilities and they will go on to do something that other people wouldn't do. They weren't born that way. They encountered that information and they chose to adopt it. How adaptable do you think we are? Can you teach that to somebody? Like, could you teach that to your children? Or is that like, you either have it or you don't?

• 23:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. I think you can definitely be better at it, but I do think there's something...

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Something that you're not necessarily born with, but that you're raised with. So after, what is it, 18 years, basically, you know, at home with parents and the friends that you surround yourself with, you're definitely molded in a certain way. And I think it's tough to change it dramatically after that. You can certainly push it one way or the other. But, you know, my starting point was way out there. You know, just given the way I was raised, you know, which was pretty hands-off, you know.

• 23:55Tom Bilyeu?

  What did your parents teach you? Was it just the freedom to learn on your own that was powerful? Or did they give you certain things that have really carried through?

• 24:04Speaker 02

  I think different things from different parent. I think my dad was pretty sort of non-present. And to get his attention, which was not that frequent, you'd have to do something pretty spectacular, which is probably one of the driving forces to this mentality. Like, you know, you need to go and do big things to be loved, basically, you know, like in the world. And so that's sort of has been an internal drive and motivator that I didn't really know and appreciate until, you know, just recently, you start to think through stuff in your life and why am I this way? Why does this make me happy? Why am I driven to do this? And then you kind of always, if you think about it long enough, you tie it back to something in childhood that's sort of the catalyst. And so I don't know what it would have been like without that.

• 24:49Speaker 02

  You know, and I coupled that, and I could have gone the other way, I guess, and just been like, you know, a bum and just forget it, you know, like. And I went this other way. And I think on my mom's side, I think there was such incredible empathy and caring and kindness on this side. And that the coupling, you know, allowed me to achieve what I had set out to do.

• 25:14Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you think of that with raising your own kids?

• 25:17Speaker 02

  I think the key thing that I really always tried to instill is the sense of caring, kindness and empathy. And you can't pick too many things, as you know, like it's just, kids are not going to react. But if there's one thing and you want to keep hammering it, there's a good chance that that could sink in. And I think that's kind of how we approached it. It's sort of like, let's go with the core, you know, be good to people, treat people as you want to be treated, be empathetic, be kind, and just drill that into them. And not only drill it into them, but by example as well and see that. And I think they have turned out to be very kind, empathetic. And that at the core, I feel good.

• 26:00Speaker 02

  There's other things that you'd say as a parent, oh, well, I wish they would be more like this or more like that. But at the end of the day, if you've got the nucleus of being kind and good, then everything else, everything else is okay. And so I would just say you have to pick something.

• 26:16Tom Bilyeu?

  When you're in banking, so you're following a relatively typical path for somebody who's ultra ambitious. I won't say it's just a typical path, but for somebody who's really got some drive and ambition, I get why you went into that.

• 26:28Tom Bilyeu?

  What was the epiphany that made you decide that that wasn't for you? When did you know that leaving was the right thing? And how do you structure your life now to make sure you never go back to the way that you felt when you were banking?

• 26:39Speaker 02

  Okay, sure. Well, I mean, just starting out, so in grammar school, high school, I started every business that a kid could start, you know? Newspapers, car waxing, lawn mowing, baseball cards, recycling, lemonade stands, like anything. And so I was quite entrepreneurial as a kid. But there wasn't really any thought to like go to work for a startup. That really wasn't the case. I graduated high school in 89 and college in 93. It just, that wasn't, wasn't really a thing until the late 90s, really. And so I, for some reason, got interested in stocks in like 10 years old. And then started reading books on derivatives and stock options when I was like in seventh grade, eighth grade.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  And I was really into it and went to Bucknell, studied finance, knew I wanted to work with stocks, went to work in banking. And seven years into it, I had gone pretty far, pretty fast because I was willing to work as hard as it took to, to kind of move up. I was executive vice president, chief risk officer, the youngest in the bank's history kind of thing. You know, it was like, it was, I, things were going really well, but I wasn't happy. And it really was interesting. I'm like, wow, this is as good as I possibly could have imagined doing, you know, six, seven years out of college, making a ton of money, doing really well, but I wasn't fulfilled. I wasn't happy. And when I was really thinking about it,

• 28:09Speaker 02

  I realized that what I really missed was that sort of entrepreneurial kind of feeling that I had as a kid, you know, building something from nothing. And so, yeah, I had this incredible pull that just toward entrepreneurship and startup that got to the point where I just walked into my boss's office and said, I'm gonna quit and become an entrepreneur. And he's like, that's really funny. And I'm like, no. He's like, oh, well, what's your idea? I said, well, I don't have an idea yet, but so you're gonna quit this job, making this amount of money. Didn't you just have a kid? Yeah. That's crazy. I said, yeah, well, I'm gonna do it. And he said, well, you're serious. And he said, well, if you're that serious, can I be your first investor? Can

• 28:51Speaker 02

  I put 50, I think it was 50 grand, he said. And I didn't know anybody with money. And so that was the seed. He introduced me to two people. I met with those two people. They introduced me to a couple of people. And I wound up, I met with like 200 angel people, you know, and got 60 investors.

• 29:08Tom Bilyeu?

  I have to stop you there because people at home, if they're not having a seizure right now and desperate for me to ask the question that I'm about to ask, and they're not paying attention. So, all right, you're an insanely hard worker. I'll give you that. But for a guy sight unseen, to say you're quitting, you have a kid, that's crazy. That's so risky. He's a banker, so he's not exactly captain risk. And for him to go, I want, without knowing what you're gonna do, I want to invest $50,000 in you, which was, I'm assuming, a very smart bet on his part.

• 29:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:37Tom Bilyeu?

  So what is it? So I think everybody has something that they get early wins in. So I'll say for me, it was verbal ability. Now, I've put an inordinate amount, decades of practice into making it useful, but I definitely got disproportionate results out of every amount of energy that I put in. Is there something that he saw in you, like, yo, this guy is so good at finance, I know he'll never fuck up a business on that side? Or was it something else? He knew you were a natural born leader? Like, what was it that he was banking on at that point?

• 30:09Speaker 02

  I don't know exactly, but I would think it's, he probably saw a little bit of what I talked about before, which is, I won't let it fail. Like, I'll do whatever it takes. Billions or body bags, I'll do whatever it takes. You know, work as hard as necessary to make it work. And I think also, I was just naturally really good at math, which was something that I was kind of known for, which translates into finance, which translates into other stuff, so.

• 30:36Tom Bilyeu?

  Can we go into the billions or body bags thing for a second? So first of all, I'm not a fan of burn the ships at the shore, but the do or die mentality to me is so intoxicating. I have it very much so. It's exactly the thing that I will say is, because I don't think I'm particularly bright. I don't have any entrepreneurial skills whatsoever when I started. Didn't have a lemonade stand. But dude, when I fucking set my mind to something, that is it. And literally, I'm going to see it through, no matter what. All the success in the world, I've only sped up in terms of my drive, my ambition, the speed with which width I move. And I am so desperate to be able to package that up, to say magic fucking words to somebody, to give them that, the power of desire, so that they'll want things the way that I want things.

• 31:21Tom Bilyeu?

  Because it's not in a destructive way. Like, I'm not destroyed by it. You could take the wealth away, it wouldn't matter. That wouldn't faze me. It's that sense of like, dude, we have so little time here. So much ability, like, potential that we can transform into real skills. Like, how do you infect people with that? That like is one of the things, like, I always tell people, if I could give somebody a gift, it would be the gift to have that desire.

• 31:44Speaker 02

  I agree, that is everything.

• 31:47Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you build it?

• 31:49Speaker 02

  How do you build it and give it to someone, basically?

• 31:51Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, like, I want to believe it can be built, right? Because I know it can't just be given. So I want to believe that there's a process. I think there is, but I'm always super curious.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, the only thing, the thing I've seen is, first of all, people need to feel an intense sense of ownership of their idea. So making sure that, you know, when somebody has an idea, you can help them mold it, but it's their idea and they have to feel like they're accountable to it, to the idea. And then...

• 32:28Speaker 02

  Pushing them to go out there and tell the world, friends, family, everyone about their idea and what their vision is and what they hope to achieve. And it's amazing how infectious that can be. When somebody gets out there and they start telling people, I'm like, wow, that's a really good idea. Or, oh, can you do that? Or, I don't think you can do that. Or, and you start, whether somebody says you can't do it, or they say, well, it sounds like an amazing idea. In either case, it's pretty motivating. I find the people that are scared to tell people about it because they feel like some sense of like, now I'm kind of committed. Or, you know, I've told all my friends about this big idea I'm going to go do. So, just getting somebody to go out there, it's kind of like, you know, if you want to work out, they say, you know, put your shorts, your T-shirt, your shoes right next to the bed. Get out of bed and put them on. And then, once you get them on, it's easy to go.

• 33:14Speaker 02

  It's similar kind of thing. It's like, once you have your idea, start telling everybody you know about this idea and how you're going to do it. And usually, that kind of starts to snowball. And then, people feel a sense of accountability to it. And then, take friends and family money. Some people say, you know, I don't want to take friends and family money. It's like, why? Well, yeah, because it's kind of scary, right? That's always been a motivating factor, you know? Just knowing like, you've got, it's not only the money, but it's also hold you accountable. This is like, everybody you know will know that this thing failed. And there'll be a monetary proof that it didn't work.

• 33:53Tom Bilyeu?

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• 34:36Tom Bilyeu?

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• 34:55Speaker 03

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• 35:40Speaker 03

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• 35:55Tom Bilyeu?

  You said that you're equally motivated by people telling you that it will work or that it won't work. Literally, when I look, every idea you've had has seemed like a terrible idea. And yet, you've turned it into these juggernauts. So, one, how do you look at that and go, "No, no, no, I see a path there"? And then, two, when people start telling you, especially in the early days when you did not have the track record to back it up, how did you deal with doubt, other people like putting doubt on you?

• 36:23Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I mean, diapers.com is a great example because it was sort of, I said, you know, my idea is pretty simple. We're going to sell diapers on the internet and deliver them to people's homes so they could have convenient access to something that's a pain in the butt. And then I talked to people in the industry, and they'd say, "Well, let me tell you why it hasn't been done." It hasn't been done because diapers are lost leaders for places like Walmart and Target and Big Box. So, they don't make any money on it anyway. And then now, you want to pay for shipping, and you want to pay for film it, and they're heavy. And by the way, wipes, that's basically shipping water. So, there's no way to make money.

• 37:03Speaker 02

  And every time somebody says something can't be done, there's also a part of me that gets a little bit excited because I'm like, okay, well, then nobody else is gonna do it, the big companies aren't gonna do it. And then you kind of put that juxtapose that against really big market opportunity. Because what I, the follow-up question I would always ask was, okay, fine, you're not gonna make money, but will there be customer demand? Will people want diapers delivered to their door overnight at amazing prices? And everyone's like, oh yeah, no, there's no arguing with that, people will love that. So I'm like, okay, so the demand is there, really big market, can't make money. So then, thinking about how to solve that, well, what if the diapers, the fulfillment,

• 37:47Speaker 02

  the shipping, all that was a loss leader online to basically sell that long tail with unlimited shelf space? So similar to brick and mortars, they use it as loss leader, you could afford to lose more money on diapers if you've got million SKUs to sell them with limited shelf space that you make money on. And once I got convicted on that, that that, that made sense and that penciled out, nothing was stopping me at that point. I didn't care what anyone, what anyone said. And the more people said couldn't be done, the more fired up it got me, so.

• 38:21Tom Bilyeu?

  What do you think stops would be entrepreneurs? Like if you had to, so I'll say for me it's boredom. Boredom kills more entrepreneurs than anything, they don't understand what's coming for them. But in your story, I hear something else, and I wonder if there's something that you've...

• 38:36Speaker 02

  What stops them after they've already started, or from starting?

• 38:38Tom Bilyeu?

  From starting, or once they get going.

• 38:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think from starting, and I know a lot of people that have ideas, first thing is, people think the idea is not good enough, and they think the idea is way more important than it really is, and people try and find ideas that have never been done before, which usually result in niche little businesses. I challenge people all the time to say, it's not about the idea, it's about the execution. Find and pick any industry out there, there's a way to disrupt it. There's already a big market, if you could just figure out a way to do it a little bit better and execute well...

• 39:13Speaker 02

  You could make a nice return on capital. You could take anything, take pizza delivery or something and just say, "Great. We know people order pizza, they get it delivered, it's great. What's wrong with it? Oh, it comes, it's not hot, the quality's not good, you know, all of the things. Okay, I'm gonna create this, it's gonna be better quality, faster, whatever it is. Yeah, if you go and raise capital and execute, you'll make that work. It doesn't have to be anything super innovative. So I think that's what holds people back. I think once people get going, I think they spend too much time thinking about all the things that could go wrong. And they get overwhelmed, and it literally just paralyzes them. I'd always say, like, "Forget about all that stuff. Today's today.

• 39:57Speaker 02

  What's the biggest step you can take today toward your vision? Well, how can you make the most progress against the vision today? So I always push people to be really clear about the vision, and then they take that step, and then it's the next day. And they say, "Well, no, no, don't focus on that. What's the biggest step you..." And as you start lining up five, six, seven, eight weeks, months in a row, you're like, "Wow, look back, we've made some serious progress." And focus on like how far you've come, and keep the vision in mind, but don't get caught up between today and the vision, because you'll just, you'll spin out of control. I see that all the time.

• 40:34Tom Bilyeu?

  How do you deal with failure? Like surely none of your plans are like, "We're doing this," and then you just execute straight up?

• 40:41Speaker 02

  No, always, no. I've so many, like I've had before in my life, so many failures, you know, growing up and things. And the way to deal with it is not to dwell on it at all. You just have to basically, soon as you recognize, first of all, being objective about progress. So constantly reevaluating all the new information. So you could basically say, you know, "Here's the vision," and you start marching. And information's coming at you every day. Competition, things, the market, the world, whatever. You need to take in that information and then kind of reassess constantly. So you can be objective about making decisions. And if you get to a point where you realize what you thought was true a year ago or two

• 41:24Speaker 02

  years ago is not true anymore, given all this information, now where do you need to be? And as soon as you recognize that, be able to tell people, I was wrong. Forget that. I know I said that that was when the information was this, new information. New, we're going to pivot and then getting everybody aligned around it, but willing to take that risk of looking stupid and basically just changing your mind. And sometimes that happens over a year or two years. Sometimes it could be months. You could be months and say, you know what? Wrong. Objectively, we've got some new information. Let's go in this direction. So I think you can't dwell. You just have to reassess and go. If you're thinking about the failure or feel bad even for a minute, that's just a minute of lost time going forward.

• 42:08Tom Bilyeu?

  If someone wants to be a great leader, what do you think are the key traits that they should be developing?

• 42:15Speaker 02

  It's funny. I get asked this question a lot and I thought about it a lot. If I had to pick one, and this usually surprises people, if I had to pick one trait of a leader, it would be empathy. For any business to be successful, most people would agree you need to have great people working in the business. You need those people to basically give everything, the best they've got. You need to retain those people. They need to be happy. Like if you really want to create a big, sustainable business. And then it comes back to, well, what does it take for the ability to recruit great people and then keep great people and keep them motivated? It's like, well, they want to be happy. They want to feel a part of something. Okay. Like what drives someone's happiness?

• 42:57Speaker 02

  At the end of the day, when you kind of, when you really get into it, it's people want to be understood. They want to be heard. They want to feel like that there's something bigger than just dollars and cents in business. And I think being empathetic is putting yourself in somebody's situation and being able to relate to how they feel about business, situation, things outside of business, personal stuff. And I think that builds a lot of trust and respect and.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  People are willing to be more loyal and committed and willing to give the best that they've got when they feel... It's also a feeling of safety, too. I think when people feel listened to, heard and understood, they feel safer. And a lot of times, people don't give their best or do their best because they feel unsafe, which brings to a whole other topic around, you know, just creating an inclusive work environment, which I think is super important, and the empathy plays a big part of that.

• 44:04Tom Bilyeu?

  So going beyond empathy, because I know some seriously empathetic people who are not good leaders, so I'll say that is necessary but not sufficient.

• 44:13Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 44:15Tom Bilyeu?

  What else are things that people should be working on if they want to lead?

• 44:18Speaker 02

  I think entrepreneurs should be thinking about what I call VCP, Vision Capital People, at least 80% of the time. And I really focus, probably even more than that percentage, on those three things. It's constantly, you know, thinking, shaping, molding the vision, and articulating it over and over and over so that everybody's crystal clear on where we're going. What's the North Star? You know, making sure that you set your org structures under the people bucket. Set your org structure in such a way that you can put people in spots where they've got end-to-end ownership. I don't like creating organizational structures where, you know, you don't really know who's responsible for what.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  So thinking about the org structure, getting that nailed, bringing in the very best people in each area is the P part, and then making sure that you're able to go out and raise the capital, which involves selling your vision. A lot of entrepreneurship is about selling, selling the vision to investors, selling the vision to employees, and then packaging it all up. And I think good leaders are able to do VCP really well. On the people part of it, the single most important thing...

• 45:34Speaker 02

  Outside of empathy, I would say is about empowerment. I would say especially in a startup where you're hiring fast and moving fast, you have to be able to empower people, which means set the vision,

• 45:50Speaker 02

  let them know what part of the org they're going to represent and what they're responsible for, and then just let them run, let them create, not get in their way, not micromanage. I think if you really want to get the best out of people, especially people that are self-motivated,

• 46:08Speaker 02

  it's let them do their thing and give them a chance to show what they can do.

• 46:15Tom Bilyeu?

  You've talked about the power of culture and core values.

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:18Tom Bilyeu?

  When you started Jet.com, what were the core values?

• 46:22Speaker 02

  Core values...

• 46:23Tom Bilyeu?

  That let you guys work a ship.

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was trust, transparency, and fairness.

• 46:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting.

• 46:27Speaker 02

  And the reason why I picked those three. And another thing that I would say about core values to anyone that's thinking about core values is, and I've learned this lesson, is you can't start with a list of 10. If you get like a bunch of people in your management team together and you start doing a list, they all sort of converge to a similar list of 10 things, integrity and excellence and all this stuff. I think for the core values to really be core, it has to be three or less. And you have to be prepared to live those values as a company in a way that no other company in the world does. And it's not just values, like, don't confuse them with traits you're looking for, like the Spate. Don't confuse it with that.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  These are values that the company, things that company can do to create a culture. And so when we picked trust, transparency, and fairness, the reason why we picked those three is because we felt those were the three most important values to lead to empowerment. So if you want somebody to feel empowered, you gotta be transparent as a company, meaning be willing to share information, share financials, share sensitive information, be really open and know that there's a risk that that could get out, but that's, you know, be transparent. Trust people. So you trust them, obviously with the information, but also... To do their job, not to get in their way. We didn't have a non-solicit agreement, non-compete agreement. We trusted people and it was more of a handshake.

• 47:53Speaker 02

  Come work here and we're going to give you information that you won't get at other companies. We'll trust you in a way that you've never been trusted before. And we're going to create a fair, safe work environment.

• 48:04Tom Bilyeu?

  When you were starting out, what was the secret to raising capital? I get now you have a track record. There's going to be a lot of people that would bet on you sight unseen at this point. But what was the key in the beginning? How'd you convince people to give you money?

• 48:16Speaker 02

  Okay, so the first was the pit that I really raised money for, which is an online sports stock market. That's where I raised, I did 200 investor pitches. So first thing I'd say is, prepare to do a lot of pitches. People, when they tell me like, they're like, oh, I'm having trouble raising money. I'm like, oh, tell me, how many people have you talked to? I sat with probably like five or six people and it wasn't really a lot of interest. I'm like, five or six, that's about 500, you know, it's like. So the first company I met with 200 people, 60 of them made an investment, which is a pretty good hit rate, you know, almost one in three. I still tell people, there was 140 people that I gave the full pitch to that said, no, I don't want to invest.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  So even though it's a great hit rate, still way more people are going to say no. But the thing that put a lot of those 60 people over was the fact that they saw the passion that I had for the idea and the commitment I was making. Not only for quitting my job, but I invested $390,000 into the business. And they looked at the sheet, I remember this one investor, very specifically Garnett. He looked at the sheet and he goes, I see here you invested $390,000. Can I just ask, I'd never seen that before, why didn't you round to 400? I said, well, I only have $390,000. And he's like, all right, I'm in, put me in. It was like immediate, you know, and that sort of triggered for me. I didn't realize at the time that that was actually, you know.

• 49:42Speaker 02

  Uh, gonna be, gonna be as valuable as it was, but I started to use that with investors after I'd say, you know, I, I've invested, you know, my entire life savings in this business. That's how much I believe in it, you know? And they're like, are you committed? Are you really gonna like, yeah, my entire life savings is in it. I have, I was making this salary. I'm making zero salary now. Yes, I'm committed. That's what got a lot of people over the hump. So I would say if you're raising money from angel investors, it doesn't need, you don't need to have a network because I knew nobody. It was just my boss and he introduced me to two people. It's find one person, ask them to introduce you to a couple of people and then each person you pitch, ask to introduce you to a couple of people and you just, and sort of the network just grows and that's the way I did it. It was no connections.

• 50:26Speaker 02

  A lot of people think you need connections. You need to know people. You need, it was no venture capital. There was no institutional investor the first time. It was five million bucks of just, you know, eighty thousand a pop on average, basically, among sixty people. That's how I started.

• 50:40Tom Bilyeu?

  It's crazy, man.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:41Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, look, your, your string of success is so gnarly. Congratulations. How can people stay in touch with you? How can they learn more?

• 50:50Speaker 02

  I've been, the last year I've been sort of active on LinkedIn. I don't really have time for other social media stuff, but LinkedIn, I try and, you know, once a week, put a post. I get an idea about something I could be, think could be helpful to folks and I'll sort of, post it on there. So that would be the best way, I guess.

• 51:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Perfect.

• 51:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 51:07Tom Bilyeu?

  All right. Last question. What, what is the impact that you want to have on the world?

• 51:11Speaker 02

  What is the impact? That's a big question. I just, I mean, the way I live my life every day is I try and,

• 51:21Speaker 02

  do what I was telling you I do with my kids and just trying to be empathetic and, and give back and,

• 51:30Speaker 02

  you know, be, you know, give more than I take. And I think that's kind of the impact I want to make. Give as much as I possibly can.

• 51:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Without asking or taking much back in return. Amazing, man. Yeah.

• 51:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, guys, he is starting to put out a little bit more content. I would say drink it all in. What he has done is beyond extraordinary to be that all in in your life, to gamble on yourself, to learn from your mistakes, to grow and just continue to execute at a higher and higher level. And that may be the most important thing that he said. Execution is far more important than the idea. So, speaking of executing, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. All right, thank you, man. That was fucking amazing. Everybody, thank you so much for listening. And if this content is delivering value to you, please go to iTunes, go to Stitcher, rate and review us. That helps us build this community and that is what we are all about right now.

• 52:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Building this community as big as we can to help as many people as we can, deliver as much value as possible. And you guys rating and reviewing really helps with that. All right, guys, thank you again so much. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care.

• 52:44Tom Bilyeu?

  Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition. We all do. You need vitamins, probiotics, greens. We all know that we should be doing more of it. When your morning gets chaotic, you skip it. When you travel, you skip it. When your routine breaks, everything tends to break and that inconsistency compounds against you every single day. AG1 is designed to solve the execution problem. One scoop, eight ounces of water, and you're done. You're getting 75 plus ingredients, vitamins and minerals, pre and probiotics, nutrient dense superfoods, everything that used to require six, seven different supplements, and perfect planning now happens in one drink that takes about 30 seconds to make.

• 53:29Tom Bilyeu?

  Right now, AG1 is giving you $87 worth of free gifts with your first subscription. You get a welcome kit, travel packs, vitamin D3 plus K2, and flavor samples. Click the link in the show notes or visit drinkag1.com/impact to claim this offer.

• 53:47Speaker 04

  Network freedom and flexibility. That's what you want in a health care plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals. No kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.