Rita Ora: “I Lived With Constant Anxiety”…After Being Signed By Jay-Z At 18!!! (E265)

In this new episode Steven sits down with global superstar, Rita Ora. Rita Ora is a British singer and songwriter who first rose to prominence in 2012 with the number 1 single ‘Hot Right Now’, she released her first album, ‘Ora’ later that year. In 2015, Rita made her film debut in ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’, in the same year she was a coach on ‘The Voice UK’ and judge on ‘The X Factor’. In 2016, she was the host of ‘America’s Next Top Model’ and in 2018 she released her second album ‘Phoenix’. In 2020, she was a judge on ‘The Masked Singer UK’, and a year later in 2021, she became a coach on ‘The Voice Australia’. Rita’s third album ‘You & I’ is available now on all music streaming platforms. In this conversation Rita and Steven discuss topics, such as: Her childhood and life before success How her parents helped her achieve her dreams How Rita has always felt as if she has to prove herself Why she is scared of losing everything she has worked for The methods she has used to tackle anxiety and panic attacks Why she doubts she will ever feel as if she has ‘made it’ Being open and never denying who she truly is The sacrifices it has taken to reach the level she is at How her marriage has changed her life Her new album and what has inspired it You can listen to Rita’s new album, ‘You & I’, here: https://bit.ly/3XRlIbY Follow Rita: Instagram: https://bit.ly/3pNzDDu Twitter: https://bit.ly/3DaODym TikTok: https://bit.ly/3pOSA8J YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pGohRL Follow me: https://beacons.ai/diaryofaceo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I was on a roller coaster ride. I was living my dream, but then when I would wake up, it'd be like

• 0:06Speaker 00

  silent and it wouldn't feel nice.

• 0:15Speaker 00

  This is an international pop star.

• 0:16Speaker 01

  Who's had the most solo female UK top 10 singles in history.

• 0:22Speaker 00

  Everything I've done is about to disappear.

• 0:26Steven Bartlett?

  Who is Rita Ora?

• 0:27Speaker 00

  I came to the UK when I was one. We refuged from the war in Kosovo. There was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself. I was a naive, young dreamer. And that's exactly what you should be at that age. I was backed up by Jay-Z.

• 0:47Steven Bartlett?

  You never thought Jay-Z would roll by with a brand new artist?

• 0:50Speaker 00

  After my first album, everything shot to number one. You know, my life just changed overnight. I was looking for things in the wrong places. I just went rebel. It was really bad. I was drinking and the media were all defying me. And I was having the craziest panic attacks.

• 1:09Steven Bartlett?

  It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is going to put you back together. Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.

• 1:25Steven Bartlett?

  What was the advice you needed but didn't get?

• 1:29Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 1:32Steven Bartlett?

  In life, sometimes the external world will craft your narrative and your story and your identity for you. And often we're told that saying less is more. Now Rita, for much of her life, has followed that philosophy. But today, she's decided to say more.

• 1:54Steven Bartlett?

  And what you learn from this conversation will be illuminating. It will be inspiring. It will make you understand Rita Ora, the person you've seen and heard about for a decade. But maybe even more importantly, through this conversation, the twists, the turns, and the untold stories of a young woman who was signed at 18 by Jay-Z. Crazy, crazy story. You're going to learn something about yourself. I know I did.

• 2:27Steven Bartlett?

  Rita.

• 2:27Speaker 00

  Hello.

• 2:29Steven Bartlett?

  Take me back. Where'd you come from?

• 2:32Speaker 00

  I am from Pristina, Kosovo, in a country called Kosovo. Wow. It's tiny. It's gorgeous.

• 2:43Steven Bartlett?

  What brought you here?

• 2:45Speaker 00

  I came to the UK when I was one in 1991. I was born in 1990. And we refuged from the war in Kosovo and I've been living in London ever since.

• 3:00Steven Bartlett?

  Why did, why did your parents choose to come here of all places?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  I think it was just such an easy route as well. It was close enough to home, but not close, you know, it was also a lot of family and cousins that my parents already knew moved to London. So it was kind of the safest bet for them, I think.

• 3:23Steven Bartlett?

  And you were one and your siblings were?

• 3:25Speaker 00

  So it was, it was just me and my sister. So I was one and my sister was three. She's two years older than me. My brother wasn't born yet. He was born here. Um, yes, it was just four of us really, yeah.

• 3:36Steven Bartlett?

  And when you arrived here, I read that you were taken to a care home.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  So when we first moved to London, my, not that I remember properly, obviously I was a kid, but my parents obviously asked favors from some existing friends that they already knew here. And we just moved around a lot. It wasn't necessarily a care home, but it just wasn't our home. But it never felt, you know, hard. My parents were really good at kind of still celebrating our birthdays and playing music. And, you know, my upbringing was so happy. And so I was really lucky. We never really saw the struggle. My parents were really good at that.

• 4:16Steven Bartlett?

  You know, when you first came here, sometimes you hear these stories of, and I've sat here with a lot of people who have come here when they were very, very young. I've got one particular friend who's been on this podcast before. She's very successful. She's one of my best friends. She came here when she was a baby as a refugee. When she first arrived here, there was a, an early like separation event because her parents essentially couldn't take care of her. So they put, they had someone else looking after her.

• 4:39Speaker 00

  Right.

• 4:40Steven Bartlett?

  And then I sat here with Gabor Maté. Do you know who that is?

• 4:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:43Steven Bartlett?

  He's, I mean, he's one of my favorite people ever.

• 4:45Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 4:46Steven Bartlett?

  And he talks about those, those early moments.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  I've seen all, kind of a lot of your interviews. I don't know why I didn't see that one.

• 4:51Steven Bartlett?

  Have you not seen that one?

• 4:52Speaker 00

  I don't know. I'm sorry. I have to check it out. Please don't hate me.

• 4:55Steven Bartlett?

  No, I don't. Don't worry. There's so many of them that I don't expect people to keep, keep up.

• 5:01Steven Bartlett?

  And I was trying to read, understand at that early stage when I was reading about your story, if there was a separation event or if your parents had, because I read the word care home somewhere.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, it wasn't really a separation. But it was, it was a room given to us by the government, the council, and it was not a council, a state house. It was just more of like a temporary home. So maybe that's where you kind of got the phrase care home. That's from what I remember was in El Scort. And then we actually moved to our council flat in West London.

• 5:35Steven Bartlett?

  And you've lived West London most of your life?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  And I've been in West London my whole life. Yeah.

• 5:41Steven Bartlett?

  What is it you inherited from your parents in terms of like, character, for, for better or for worse? And I say that because some of the things that I'm most proud of are things that my parents probably didn't intentionally.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:52Steven Bartlett?

  Give me, they were, they were, there were things that weren't in the like, how to raise a child well manual. They weren't in there.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  I don't think my parents were doing that either. They were also really young. I mean, you know, I think we're kind of in the same age bracket. But with my parents, you know, they were having kids at like 22, 23, 24. You know, if I'm thinking, gosh, having a kid then now, that it would be crazy different, but. There was a lot that they taught me without knowing, you know, for example, the language was always spoken in the house. So luckily now I can speak two languages. Now I'm not amazing at it, but I understand it and can read it and speak it. Um, a lot of resilience, like a lot. That was a big thing in the house, like hard work, resilience. And sort of showing up and sticking by your word, you know, like when you tell someone you're gonna do something.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  You better do it, cause otherwise that's like a big. It's just sort of a real disrespect if you're promising someone something and you don't deliver. Yeah.

• 6:51Steven Bartlett?

  Your mother was a doctor back in Kosovo?

• 6:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, psychiatrist, yeah. Great, she's so cool. Uh, my dad was, actually studied economics. Um, and he was doing that, um, a lot of accounting stuff and, uh, you know, they moved here and basically had to start again. So my dad worked in a pizza spot in Notting Hill Gate. And my mum didn't work and she started to learn the language. And basically figure out how she was gonna get her degrees and things. And then she just had to re-study to get the qualifications. My mother did anyway, I remember that, that was hard.

• 7:30Steven Bartlett?

  It was hard.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, it was, it was a lot because, you know, I was going to school, my sister was going to school. We were living in a council estate in Ladbroke Grove, which is big up West London, I'll, I'll love it forever. But, um, at the time, she was like trying to qualify her English studies. Um, studying psychiatry and she was also battling breast cancer. So there was three things and she was also in her thirties, which is really rare. She was like in her late thirties when she actually got breast cancer the first time. And so there was a lot happening, you know, at once. So, yeah, that was my memory of that point. Yeah.

• 8:17Steven Bartlett?

  At that young age, I think we start to kind of piece, figure out who we are and how we're different. I think we start to develop suspicions that we're talented in this way or different in this way. Or when maybe we have a problem with authority in this way. What did you, at that young age, um, did you start to figure out anything about yourself and who you are and why you were different? Or if you were different in certain ways?

• 8:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, parent evening was always an interesting one because my parents at the time couldn't really speak English. So my sister, bless her, even to this day, she was always the one that was like helping me with my homework or got to a certain age where she was kind of the one that was helping me with my maths homework because my mother couldn't really do it. So she'd be like, oh, Elena, can you read that? Or my sister, her name's Elena, could you do that? Or can you do that? So it was interesting to see like now as adults, how much pressure my older sister actually had. And it was kind of difficult, I would think for her. I don't want to speak for her, but I think it definitely felt like we were sort of running,

• 9:23Speaker 00

  you know, the ship while they were kind of trying to collect all the pieces and put food on the table, really. So, yeah, primary school had a lot of ups and downs. You know, in school, it was super fun. And yeah, and then we did like Cinderella and it was all these really fun like musicals. And I would get, you know, I got the Cinderella role in like year five. And that's when I was like, oh, I could do this singing thing. I kind of like this. And that's when I think I really thought, oh, I think I want to be a singer. So, interesting, yeah.

• 9:56Steven Bartlett?

  How how did you how did you know you were good at it?

• 9:58Speaker 00

  I didn't. I just got the role. And then I thought, well, I must be good since I got the main role of Cinderella.

• 10:06Steven Bartlett?

  Did anybody give you any feedback? Someone, anyone come to you?

• 10:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I did do school choirs, you know, I would go to the school choirs after school. And I love this teacher, her name was Susie. And she really worked me hard and she would really include me in all the choirs and they would do a lot of charity events and things like that. And I would always take a solo and she actually called my parents and said, you know, I think you should really try and hone in on Rita's music talent because I think she's got something special. And that's sort of where it started.

• 10:41Steven Bartlett?

  How did your parents receive that phone call? Because they're traditional parents.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, my mum was really excited and so was my dad, but my dad was more practical. I mean, they're kind of old school, you know, my parents are still, they were raised in Kosovo. So it was get married, have babies, you know? And so my mum always was a dreamer, you know, she definitely still is. And she was always like, sing for us at parties and this and that. But I don't think either of them thought I would ever do a job in this, actually sort of do it for real. Yeah.

• 11:12Steven Bartlett?

  When you used the word resilience a second ago as one of the things that your parents taught you.

• 11:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:17Steven Bartlett?

  I'm assuming from that that you mean that they used, observed them being resilient as well.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  Hmm. They worked really hard. They still do, even though they're getting a bit older and they kind of feel like retirement is close. I think deep down, they don't ever want to stop working. But they were so, so real in the sense of being completely open with money and work. And my father sort of doing double shift sometimes and, you know, my mum, when she would get stressed, you, it would really impact us, me and my sister, you know, and we always used to sleep together because, I don't know, I guess I don't, didn't want to sleep alone. And so we would always kind of just hear them talking, you know, like mumbling away when we were younger.

• 12:03Speaker 00

  But it was interesting because it was so nice to have my sister with me. I don't know how I would have done that alone, you know?

• 12:13Steven Bartlett?

  What, coming to the UK and kind of growing up here and?

• 12:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just sort of try doing that whole thing I explained to you.

• 12:21Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 12:22Speaker 00

  Alone, I just, I can't fathom it, honestly. You know, there, there's some friends I have that have no siblings that have the same sort of story as me that have done it alone. And I'm just kind of like, I can only, I don't know, I don't, I just don't know. It's nice when you don't feel, when you have someone else going through the same thing as you, you know?

• 12:40Steven Bartlett?

  Well, a lot of people as well don't have a situation where they watch their parents kind of like fighting to survive.

• 12:45Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:46Steven Bartlett?

  And that's a, that's a, in some respects, quite a traumatic thing to observe. But it also means that there's a certain absence. I can relate to that with my mother. Like, she was so obsessed with working that she would sleep in that shop, her little corner shop.

• 12:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:58Steven Bartlett?

  And it was like watching someone fight to survive. We, I feel like I have a privilege where I'm thinking more about like happiness and fulfillment and all of these next level things. But my mom was like, food on table, you know, attitude.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  So was mine.

• 13:13Speaker 00

  I think that the hard work really does stem from me knowing that I'm, you know, not, my blood isn't English, but I feel English. I am English. I mean, I was raised here. This is my home, you know? But there was a sense of having to overwork to prove myself. Yeah, for sure. Like, I deserve to be here, kind of thing.

• 13:37Steven Bartlett?

  Does that ever stop?

• 13:38Speaker 00

  No.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  I mean, I actually asked myself this the other day. I was like,

• 13:48Speaker 00

  is it enough? But I'm always like, I want more. I want, I want to do it again. What's next? And it just, I don't think it will ever go away. I don't think that feeling of me feeling satisfied will ever happen. I don't know. I love working, you know? I'm really lucky. I do do what I love. It's not like I wake up dreading what I do. But it's more like, yeah, you're right. Like, it doesn't, I just don't know if I will ever be like, I did it. You know, I'm always like, okay, so now what? You know, what's next?

• 14:19Steven Bartlett?

  Is there sometimes when you have a child that came here as a, as an immigrant or came here early and watched their, like, watched the, watched the generation above them fight for survival, they almost inherit this fear, this fear of losing it all and that trans, I'm thinking about my friend here, the one I said that you remind me of. Her story is very, very similar. Came here as a refugee when she was young.

• 14:40Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 14:41Steven Bartlett?

  She is an obsessive workaholic.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:43Steven Bartlett?

  And I feel like.

• 14:45Steven Bartlett?

  She called me the other day, in fact, I'm sure she went, I'll have to ask her, I can share this.

• 14:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:49Steven Bartlett?

  She called me the other day and she said to me that because there was so much insecurity in her childhood, in terms of like, things didn't feel secure. She's, her work is the only thing that gives her that sense of security as an adult, so she's fighting to maintain that.

• 15:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I relate to that. It definitely is one of my reasons of purpose, for sure. Which is a blessing, but also a curse, because obviously if things don't always turn out how you want, it ends up crumbling more of you than you need it to. Does that make sense? So you kind of feel less than, rather than remembering everything else that you've done. Because that one incident, for example, may have not have gone how you wanted it to. Everything's gone wrong. And I think that's something that I've been really working on as well with my therapist. It's called almost sort of like compartmentalizing things.

• 15:43Speaker 00

  But because my life is my work, it almost regulated my sense of happiness, which I think sometimes could be really damaging, you know? Especially if you kind of wake up not feeling good about yourself, or you sometimes wake up and you're kind of like, oh, I'm not feeling it today, which is, I think, what everyone goes through, and I definitely go through it.

• 16:09Speaker 00

  You know, I've, I've really got to remember, you know, there are other points that bring me joy. That's something I've been really working on, especially in my thirties now I'm getting a bit older. Yeah.

• 16:22Steven Bartlett?

  And when you were, I think you were 15 years old, your mother Vera?

• 16:27Speaker 00

  Vera, yeah, like Allo Vera.

• 16:28Steven Bartlett?

  Same as my grandmother.

• 16:29Speaker 00

  Oh, cute. It's a rare name.

• 16:32Steven Bartlett?

  It is very rare.

• 16:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:33Steven Bartlett?

  She was diagnosed with breast cancer. And this, from reading through your story, was quite a pivotal, it seems to be quite a pivotal moment in your life, even still today, I think.

• 16:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, it was really hard for me.

• 16:44Speaker 00

  It was like, I don't know why I always say this, but you know, I felt like my parents were like superheroes. Like they were untouchable, undiable, you know, and I was just almost like nothing is gonna crack them. And then when I sort of saw my mum, starting to kind of get weaker and weaker and lose her hair, I was thinking, oh my gosh, they can also die, you know, and it was almost like, huh, what am I gonna do? And I took it upon myself to try and find a solution and obviously, you know, I, I couldn't. But you don't think that all the way through, you're just seeing your mum just kind of really weak and,

• 17:25Speaker 00

  you know, I was skipping school and I would just, you know, I just went rebel and it was really hard for me.

• 17:31Steven Bartlett?

  You went rebel?

• 17:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just really went the opposite way and, you know, my parents worked really hard to get me into this school, which was, it's a really famous school and it was a fantastic Sylvia Young Theatre School. And it's like, I mean, it was the best times of my life was at that school. But when my parents were, you know, struggling, my mum was ill, I just, I couldn't focus. I just couldn't focus in school. I was just distraught and I just kind of wanted to be with her all the time, but she didn't want us to see her like that. So, you know, she wouldn't take us to her treatments and she'd wear a wig and things like that. So she wouldn't really kind of, we wouldn't visually see the pain, basically.

• 18:18Steven Bartlett?

  You were trying to find a cure, you said?

• 18:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. So weird, right? Like, I don't know. I think I was just, ah, I think me and my sister almost blamed, I don't know what, we were just trying to find the answer and it's like, obviously, we would have done anything to get our mum out of that pain, you know, so. Yeah, we don't really know what we were gonna do, but we just went into sort of survival panic mode and.

• 18:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was my experience. I was just really struggling with it. It was really hard for me.

• 18:52Steven Bartlett?

  Is Rita before that incident different to Rita after that incident in like a fundamental way?

• 18:57Speaker 00

  Yeah. I just really do appreciate people, my parents, more than I did before. So, you know, like every kid, sometimes your parents kind of get on your nerves or you're like, oh, I can't stand them when they do this or that. But I always think like you just don't know when they're gonna go. So I've really made it conscious effort to appreciate them more than ever. And if I ever see my siblings or the ones that I love, kind of naturally just react out of instinct or something, I'm like, just remember, you know what I mean? It's like just that your parents, you don't want that to be the last thing that you say to them, you know, I'm, that's where my head is at now.

• 19:38Steven Bartlett?

  We cope in a variety of different ways to to these traumatic events. Some people, you know, you described becoming a bit of a rebel. Some people, I mean, use work as a convenient distraction. Other people go to therapy and confront it head on. How how do you cope? How are you a copa when when these kind of things happen in life? How how does Rita cope?

• 20:00Speaker 00

  Work. I just really throw myself into work. Or I try and find a project that I'm really passionate about to just sort of distract. I'm I'm good at distracting myself for sure. Yeah, I mean, therapy's been an incredible thing that I've discovered, you know, since I was twenty six, I kind of started.

• 20:24Speaker 00

  Um, and my mom always would say, you should do it, you should do it. Obviously, she doesn't use her sort of doctor-ness on us, but, you know, she was really adamant on us doing therapy. And then I finally, you know, again, you have to find it yourself. And so I did. And that really helps. But work is something I do really focus and distract myself with.

• 20:45Steven Bartlett?

  This whole concept of of like, mental health is quite a new one in our society.

• 20:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:50Steven Bartlett?

  You I read that you'd started having anxiety attacks and panic attacks and stuff shortly after your mother's diagnosis.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 20:58Steven Bartlett?

  And that I'm presuming you hadn't had those before.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  No, mm hmm. I never really understood when people would say, oh, I have the panics or, oh, I got such bad anxiety. I wouldn't. I was never really kind of like, I don't. But then it happened. I think it was the idea of losing the one that I the ones that I love that kind of put me into panic. I like structure. I like routine. I like trying to resolve situations. So.

• 21:29Steven Bartlett?

  Security.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Security I was never really obsessed with. It's weird. I was more obsessed with like me just knowing that I have a routine to go to work. You know, I'm I'm always in fear of losing everything that I've got. I don't think they'll ever go away. And I actually spoke to somebody who's a very famous actor, and you'd never think in a million years that they have that fear. And he said that there is a therapist that just deals with the fear of losing the money, the the whatever it is that they're obsessed with or that they love at such a high level. I mean, this person is one of the biggest actors in the world. And so I always thought, I was like,

• 22:14Speaker 00

  what? How this person deals with that? I couldn't believe it. So it's nice to know that, you know, it's a common thought, I think, especially if you come from not a lot of money.

• 22:26Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm. Yeah. And like, if you come from a place where you've seen the opposite, but also just the fragility of of of it. I mean, you must have been inundated with stories when you were a kid of like, I used to be a doctor and now I'm having to go back to square one again.

• 22:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:41Steven Bartlett?

  Because your your your father was like a restaurateur back in Kosovo and you. So you've kind of seen, even if you weren't there to see it, but you've heard the stories of going from here to here.

• 22:50Speaker 00

  Hmm. Really quickly, too.

• 22:52Steven Bartlett?

  Really quickly.

• 22:53Speaker 00

  It's hard. Yeah. I mean, it is something that I like have nightmares about sometimes.

• 22:58Steven Bartlett?

  Really?

• 22:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, because. I think now it's not just about me. You know, I think ever since I started, I was always speaking, I'd like to think, on the majority of people that don't necessarily get the shot that I got, you know, coming from where I'm from. Being able to live my dream. If I didn't move to the UK, I don't really know what I would be doing. And so I was always really vocal about my gratitude and sort of like, this is possible. And that's why I work with UNICEF and I go and do these trips as an ambassador because I see these kids and I really wanna kind of put this hope in them.

• 23:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's a massive priority for me.

• 23:47Steven Bartlett?

  Reading between the lines, I was, I was hearing like the gratitude, like the, with that sometimes comes another feeling, which is like, why me? You know, of all the, because you look back at the dominoes that had to fall for you to be here and you go, oh, why me?

• 24:02Speaker 00

  True.

• 24:03Steven Bartlett?

  Why you?

• 24:06Speaker 00

  That's a good question. Yeah, I guess I, I got something to say. I think if you have something to say and you can create this following of, of honesty and and you have this real fan base of people that think that they know you. I think that's something that could live on forever. And I think that's something that I inherit. I have this sort of genuine connection that I love people. I genuinely do. I love talking to people. Hence why I got into TV. I do really enjoy communicating and making people feel what I'm feeling or trying to give people a sense of happiness or joy or just kind of being like, you know what? I get that too. Or, oh, she's just like us.

• 24:51Speaker 00

  Because that's what I was looking up to when I was a kid. You know, all the singers I loved growing up were super relatable and super transparent. Tina Turner, who has the same birthday as me, so I never have met her, R I P Tina, but I always felt so connected to her because I knew everything about her and she was so honest with her story. And so that's sort of the, the footprint I wanna make. I want people to, you know, I know not everyone's gonna like me, you know, it's, it's normal. But at least they're gonna know the, the story and appreciate the climb, basically.

• 25:31Steven Bartlett?

  From that, so the first time you you join that choir to when you first get signed, what happens in that period in terms of like the things that you controlled to make you go from the choir to the record label? When you look back and go, the reason why I got from there to there was really it comes down to X.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Right.

• 25:52Steven Bartlett?

  What is that X?

• 25:54Speaker 00

  Showing up. So the reason why I think I got there is because I interned at a recording studio and I was making people tea and mopping the floors for free and delivering backing vocals for free for people that needed harmonies, Craig David being one of them. And I was there. I was ready. I was available. I was existing within the atmosphere and I was there at the right time. You have to be willing to get up and get out of bed and just be there. You have to show up, whether it's like offering your work for a place and knowing you're not going to get paid, but you're going to be amongst musicians or something like that. Or it's about being heard. And, you know, I would sing at my dad's

• 26:37Speaker 00

  pub. I would, I'm on popular market, working in a sneaker shop and I was controlling the music in the shop and I would play like a demo of mine and I would just try everything I could to just sort of be there, be present, be seen. Yeah.

• 26:52Steven Bartlett?

  What was your aim at that point? In terms of if I if I'd asked you, you know, what are you going to be when you're older? When you're working in that shoe shop or when you're interning? Did you, would you say, I'm going to be Tina Turner?

• 27:04Speaker 00

  I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't have a plan. I just was like, I need to figure this out because I left college and my dad was so mad at me. And I, I mean, he didn't speak to me for ages. And he just wanted me to have a real secure future, which I understand. But I just, I said, Dad, just let me do this for a year. And if I can't do it, I will go back to college. And now I'm 31 and I haven't gone back to college yet. It's never too late.

• 27:31Steven Bartlett?

  Is he okay with it?

• 27:32Speaker 00

  I think he's okay now.

• 27:34Steven Bartlett?

  Good.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  But I do think that. There was a lot of fear circulating around that time of my life because I was like, I have to figure it out. But you know, there was a Steve Jobs quote, and it's kind of like, if you have a plan B, you're never really going to put your all in plan A. And I didn't have a plan B at all. It was like working in the shoe shop and then going to intern at the studio and hoping something is gonna like figure it out. I don't know, something was gonna happen. And it did.

• 28:05Steven Bartlett?

  What happened?

• 28:06Speaker 00

  This A and R lady came in for another artist that was recording in that studio facility. And there was a demo that I lended my vocals on because I needed somebody to sing it. The producer that owned that studio was making music with a lot of other producers and musicians. And he didn't have a vocalist to cover this one song. Long story short, it got around and they were playing this music because they were selling these songs to their artists. And then somebody said, okay, well, who's singing that? And it was me. And they were like, we want to meet this person. And that's kind of when

• 28:49Speaker 00

  everything started to click. And that was Jay Brown, who works with Jay-Z. And that was the whole introduction to signing to Roc Nation.

• 29:00Steven Bartlett?

  And you, I heard they got you on a plane, you flew out there, you went to some party.

• 29:04Speaker 00

  I did all of that. Yeah, I did the whole thing.

• 29:07Steven Bartlett?

  For them, and they signed you straight away?

• 29:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, they did. They signed me straight. We're kind of like that night. I was exhausted. I flew in from London and it was scary, but it was so exciting. It was like, everything was happening at once.

• 29:17Steven Bartlett?

  And you were how old?

• 29:19Speaker 00

  Uh, just turned eighteen.

• 29:20Steven Bartlett?

  Wow.

• 29:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then I moved to Brooklyn. I went from sharing a room with my sister to having my own apartment in Brooklyn, like overnight.

• 29:30Steven Bartlett?

  What was the advice you needed but didn't get at that point in your life?

• 29:34Speaker 00

  Don't believe all the promises that people tell you.

• 29:40Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting. What should we do instead? That other than believing the promises, we should?

• 29:47Speaker 00

  I think other than believing in the promises, you should work on what your craft is to make sure that you can stand alone and not need anybody else to help you stand up. That might not mean a straight away number one record,

• 30:06Speaker 00

  but at least you have your DNA and that for me is timeless and it can really help you in the longevity of a career. Having a quick one hit obviously is great, but then what, you know? And so that's what I've learned. It's like not everything is gonna go and then you're like, I'm good forever because it doesn't work like that. I wanted people to love me as a person and really sort of back me up because they liked me. And then came the music and then came the TVs and whatever else that we're doing. But it was just important for people to really feel like they know me.

• 30:50Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 30:51Speaker 00

  Because I felt like if everything goes bad, at least people will love me as a human, which is a real kind of,

• 31:02Speaker 00

  I would say,

• 31:05Speaker 00

  it's an insecurity, maybe. It is a bit of an insecurity sort of factor of wanting to feel wanted. But with music and with entertainment,

• 31:20Speaker 00

  your job is to really be present for these people and really show up for these people and everyone that's watching and to take them out of their misery. And so. Sometimes it's not about your misery or about what you're going through. And you've got to really just be selfless.

• 31:38Steven Bartlett?

  Have you always had that in you, that desire to be kind of wanted? If you go back to, you know, the first eighteen years of your life, have you always had that desire to just be wanted and to be accepted?

• 31:49Speaker 00

  A little bit.

• 31:51Steven Bartlett?

  Why are you smiling?

• 31:52Speaker 00

  Because I remember it was more about like, I don't know, I guess, growing up, I was.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  Me and my girlfriends, you know, we were like, we were really sort of like flamboyant. You know, with our like looks and we would wear makeup and we would wear all these crazy clothes and yeah, we did get attention for it. And sometimes it was the wrong sort of attention, but we were just sort of kids figuring it out. But that's why I'm laughing because we were so not knowing. Now, thinking back, it was like, we had no idea what we were doing.

• 32:28Speaker 00

  But that was my first feeling of like, oh, people are liking what I'm looking like, or they like what I'm wearing, or, oh, that feels kind of good, you know? And then I got into the public eye and I was sort of like, yeah, it's so intense. It's not as controlled as it was when I was walking up and down Portobello Market.

• 32:50Steven Bartlett?

  You know, because you talk about that moment of, maybe you would have whispered in Rita's ear and told her to like, focus on her craft and what she can own, so she's not reliant on other people. But when you're eighteen.

• 33:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:02Steven Bartlett?

  And I suspect from where you come from, you just want to kind of please people and you want to just, any opportunity is fucking better than Portobello Road shoe shop.

• 33:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, I was a naive, young dreamer. And that's exactly what you should be at that age. I mean, you're not supposed to be anything else. All you want is to just win and you want to do well and you want to impress. And I was backed up by some real big, big people, you know, Jay-Z and, these huge artists that are timeless and fantastic. And I wanted to be as good as them. And so when I was eighteen, I was like, I would do anything to kind of be at that level. And everything that was given to me, I was sort of like, let's do it, let's go, let's go, let's go, sure. Because they must be right and I must be wrong because they're huge superstars and I'm not.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  So there was that as well that was going on.

• 33:58Steven Bartlett?

  So interesting because I think even if people aren't in the music industry, they can relate to this in their everyday jobs, which is sometimes we think there's, we cannot question authority in any regard and we cannot question if someone's successful and they have a path for us, we should just do what they say. And follow that path, but.

• 34:15Speaker 00

  But they're not always right, even the big, big guns, you know, like it's, it's about your story. It's, you know, you have your own script that's about to be written out for you. And I think now I'm at this point where I wish I knew that because I can really dictate that now, which is really cool. But I think that comes with age. I mean, what are you going to do? You're young. You're not supposed to know all those things. You know, you've just got to hope, hope for the best.

• 34:43Steven Bartlett?

  And learn from your mistakes, right?

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not perfect. Everybody knows that. I think I've been a very transparent public figure, you know? And I've never sort of denied or I've always been super honest with my fans and I will continue to do that and sometimes make mistakes along the way.

• 35:03Steven Bartlett?

  Because you've had such an extreme career experience, starting at 18.

• 35:09Steven Bartlett?

  What are some of the universal lessons that you might turn to someone who is a little bit further, a little bit further down the ladder in terms of their career? Maybe they're working in a completely different job, but some of that advice, you said like about questioning authority and that people don't always know what's best for you. But in terms of how to be successful.

• 35:26Speaker 00

  Well.

• 35:27Steven Bartlett?

  Because you would have seen both sides of that coin.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:30Steven Bartlett?

  With those eyes, you've seen why people come, become successful and why talent is often not good enough for some other people.

• 35:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's true. Well, you know, I think it's about longevity. It's about being a businesswoman and I think it's really important to get the right team, you know, I've had the same team since I was 16. I don't really like changing people up around me unless I really have to. I like familiarity. I like consistency. Now, it's also about sacrifice. I think I've missed a lot of things, birthdays, family events, funerals, weddings. Everything you can imagine.

• 36:14Speaker 00

  For my job. So for example, going on tours, even going to visit things and seeing shows or going to get inspired. And you have to always be willing to work and be consistent in getting inspiration. That's also a big thing for me. Creatively, I think you have to be wanting to achieve those things. So it's like, oh, I want to do a rock and roll album. Okay, so let's go learn the DNA of rock and roll and do it properly. Or read a book, or I want to be an author of self care, or I want to learn how to, I don't know. I do the homework. I'm a big person. I'm a massive nerd in music. You know, I do pop music, but I know a lot and people get really surprised. You know, I

• 36:58Speaker 00

  do play a lot of different genres and styles. And all my inspirations come from me being a nerd and learning music from composers to mixers to producers to who did what behind the scenes. It's like, you have to do the homework. And then you have to convince people to do it with you. That's like another stage. So you're constantly really just working, selling. Yeah, I think especially with everything that you do, you know, it's like 10,000 hours. Like, I really believe in that theory, you know.

• 37:32Steven Bartlett?

  That takes 10,000 hours to become a master.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, I genuinely do. I do that a lot as much as I can.

• 37:39Steven Bartlett?

  Are you a confident person? It's an interesting word because it means so much, the word confidence. But do you just, do you think you're a confident individual? Let me define it. When you think, when you think, set yourself a goal, or you flirt with a goal.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 37:53Steven Bartlett?

  Are you the type of person that goes 100% I can do that?

• 37:57Speaker 00

  I'm good at being an autopilot confident person.

• 38:01Steven Bartlett?

  What does that mean?

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Where you can just slip into being confident, as in masking it as much as you possibly can. Like, you won't ever see my face kind of feeling a sense of doubt or insecurity if I'm having to show up as Rita Ora. But I always have it going on in my mind. Do they like this? Am I saying the right thing? Do I look weird? Am I wearing crazy clothes? I mean, I do it because I love it and I go out there and I'm like, this is who I am. But I have the doubts constantly in my mind. Is it good enough? Is it good enough? Is it good enough?

• 38:40Steven Bartlett?

  What's your journey with confidence been like? Because people will look at you today and I think they see you on the red carpets and these great outfits and stuff and smiling and pat, pat, pat, pat, pat.

• 38:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:47Steven Bartlett?

  And they go, oh, she's just born confident. She's just born with it and she's, you know, she's got self doubt, isn't a thing for her. Never imposter syndrome, none of that. That's just me.

• 38:57Speaker 00

  No, I have it all like really intensely, but

• 39:03Speaker 00

  I do everything in my power to like, keep my brain and my heart calm. So my thoughts are going to be there. I've discovered that and I've accepted that. But now I'm really getting good at controlling where they live. Whereas before it was really hard for me to do that. And that's what therapy has really helped me do. So I've become really obsessed with my, with working out and being physical and figuring out what I eat. And I fast a lot and I do a lot of that. And it kind of keeps me calm. I don't put myself, myself in situations where I'm going to panic. Like if I don't want to go somewhere, I just won't go.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  And before I'd be like, oh, I have to do this or I have to do that. And you know, I think as you get older, you're like, you know what? You don't have to do these things anymore. And a lot of meditating, a lot of incense and smells. I'm a big smells person. But these are my tools. This is what helps me. I don't journal as much, but I did journal for this album. That's out and. It was great. I mean, would I do it all the time? No, but I do more of kind of like voice notes and working out and meditating and eating well.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's like my thing.

• 40:25Steven Bartlett?

  Have you gone on a bit of a journey with understanding how Rita's feeling? Because I hear the eighteen year old that moved to Brooklyn, that seemed to be a person who was very much just listening to the external world's

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:37Steven Bartlett?

  impression of how she should be feeling.

• 40:39Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 40:39Steven Bartlett?

  You should be happy now.

• 40:40Speaker 00

  Mm hmm.

• 40:41Steven Bartlett?

  And then it seems through your story that there was kind of a, there's been a pivot helped via therapy where you're getting better at understanding how you truly feel in situations.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you know, it's still a struggle, you know, I've felt like, I mean, like anyone, when you feel overwhelmed with something, it's like your whole world is falling apart, you know? It wasn't just work, it was everything, like my, my love life, my friendship with my friends and I wasn't paying attention to, you know, the, the ones that really loved me for me.

• 41:14Steven Bartlett?

  When was this?

• 41:15Speaker 00

  Well, just sort of in my twenties.

• 41:17Steven Bartlett?

  Right.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  After my first album, everything shot to number one, you know, my life just changed overnight. It was like, okay, let's go. And so, you know, I was just doing that. I was living my dream. I was, you know, going out with my band and, you know, I was just not really checking in with my closest friends and my families and I just, I lost touch a little bit. I was on a roller coaster ride and then I kind of brought that back, you know, I did when I, in my second album. And now my third album, this, this time round, I'm, you know, I'm in a completely different sort of headspace.

• 41:52Steven Bartlett?

  What was the, how did you know you'd lost yourself? Cause we found out, we typically find out after because of some kind of symptoms. In the moment, we don't know, but what was the symptoms that you'd lost yourself?

• 42:02Speaker 00

  Well, the search of being wanted and being loved by, you know,

• 42:09Speaker 00

  boyfriends and things like that. There was.

• 42:11Steven Bartlett?

  What did you mean?

• 42:13Speaker 00

  It was just sort of like my twenties felt like I was kind of low, alone.

• 42:20Speaker 00

  And so, you know, I was looking for things in the wrong places, you know, with love. And sometimes it wouldn't be good for me and people would tell me and I wouldn't listen. I was eating really bad, I was drinking and my dad was so, so, so on board with, you know, helping me and, you know, I grew up in a pub. So it was like, there was always drinks going on and, you know, parties and I was jumping on the bar and singing songs. And so alcohol was just like a real normal thing in my family and it was fun. It was, it was just a fun time for me in my twenties, but then when I would wake up, it'd be like,

• 42:59Speaker 00

  silent and it wouldn't feel nice. So yeah, that's what I mean about my messy twenties. It was, it was just a journey. It was like what anyone would go through though, you know, I've, I've learnt to understand that not everyone figures it out in their twenties.

• 43:12Steven Bartlett?

  That's such an interesting way to describe it. It was silent and it didn't feel nice. So many people can relate to that.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. You know, you don't wanna live in silence sometimes because you don't wanna kind of understand you.

• 43:26Steven Bartlett?

  That's so true.

• 43:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so you're kind of like, put the radio on, go do, do, do, do something. I don't know. Anyway, that was me. Yeah.

• 43:35Steven Bartlett?

  But you did something that most people who would say that didn't do, which was then you went and you started your journey in therapy, which is literally the opposite, which is I'm gonna understand me.

• 43:45Speaker 00

  I don't know if this is a thing, but quarter life crisis, is that a thing?

• 43:51Steven Bartlett?

  We've heard that before, yeah.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Is that like a known phrase?

• 43:53Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, well, I've heard it before.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  But when I was twenty five, it was a real weird time for me. It was like my second album was kind of coming out ish. Gosh, I'll never forget this. I was doing the Prince's Trust and I've been working with them for a long time. There was one occasion I did it at the Royal Albert Hall. And I was wearing a blue outfit and I remember Tom Hardy was also in the line to meet our now a king.

• 44:25Speaker 00

  And I went into that bathroom and my hands were tingling. And I was having the craziest panic attack. And that was the first time when I was twenty five. And my tour manager, Rich, who's been with me for ages. I was like, Rich, I need I need a couple of minutes. I don't know if I can do this. Like, I couldn't. I thought my legs were gonna give way and I don't know what was going on. I've I've met. Um, our now king before. I mean, I don't know. I was performing that day as well. I just don't know what happened. I went into the bathroom and I was like.

• 45:03Speaker 00

  And I mean, I felt sick. I didn't know what was gonna go on. And then I got out and I stood in that line. And I just went.

• 45:11Steven Bartlett?

  Hmm.

• 45:12Speaker 00

  And I just met Prince slash King Charles and I just was not there. It was. But you know, if you look at that photograph, you wouldn't even know. It was. And then I went out and I sang and I messed up the lyrics and completely got it wrong, but nobody really noticed. But that was when I was like in my, when I was twenty five and ever since then, I was just petrified of that feeling again. And I learned that through therapy, that is, you get panics from not wanting to get a panic attack. And that's how you sort of drive your panic attacks. That's what happened to me. I was more in fear of feeling like that again.

• 45:55Speaker 00

  That would put me into the realm of going down that spiral.

• 45:59Steven Bartlett?

  A lot of people don't, um, I've got friends, it was some of the stories you've said remind me of some friends of mine. And a lot of them don't wanna have the conversation with a therapist because they're scared of what it brings out and what it brings up. A lot of people say that.

• 46:13Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 46:14Steven Bartlett?

  You, and it was, that's why I'm linking that to the moment where you wake up and it's quiet and you go, I don't like the quiet. Because.

• 46:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I never really did. There was always music playing, even when I was a kid. My mum would always have. The Bee Gees and ABBA and all, there was always noise in my house and the windows were open. And the dishes were clacking and clicking and, you know, that was, there was always life happening in my childhood.

• 46:38Steven Bartlett?

  And you turn that chapter around in your life. That twenty five year old party chapter.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, I haven't had as many of that feeling as I thought I was gonna have. And now I know it. I mean, I also wasn't familiar with it, remember? I didn't have them growing up. And it just hit me, you know, the pressure of being famous and the pressure of meeting all these real sort of incredible people and me not feeling like I was good enough to be there, you know, it just built up on me.

• 47:08Steven Bartlett?

  What's your like, relationship like with trust?

• 47:11Speaker 00

  It comes in waves.

• 47:12Steven Bartlett?

  Because I was thinking about that experience at eighteen, you were saying about like, kind of trust yourself more.

• 47:17Speaker 00

  Trust in work is very slim.

• 47:20Steven Bartlett?

  What about trust broadly? You said it comes in waves.

• 47:23Speaker 00

  Trust broadly, I'm very, very trusting, I think more to a fault, you know, I also, I like to give people chances rather than give them no chances. Which sometimes has kind of put me in a predicament, but again, I just see the best in people and I always have and I, and I hope that people do that for other people. That's why I do that, you know? Now with things like, oh, you know, if you, if you do this with us, then you know, we can maybe achieve this for you that you've always wanted to achieve in your work life. That is something I'm very questioning with. Like if, if you come with us, well, I need to see the proof before I do that.

• 48:02Steven Bartlett?

  Like big promises.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's again, maybe something to do with my experience in my work life, you know, it's just, I've been disappointed so many times and I've been left with nothing so many times. That I, I, I just don't ask anyone for anything anymore. Basically.

• 48:24Steven Bartlett?

  But it's got you far, I mean.

• 48:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, but.

• 48:27Steven Bartlett?

  Even that trust seems to have got you to an incredible, incredible place, even if it maybe has hurt you along the way.

• 48:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, because I've made incredible relationships. That's the one thing I'm very grateful for, even if I've been disappointed and sometimes those bridges haven't seen the end. I've created incredible relationships with people that have seen my struggles and have seen me work really hard and in a circumstance.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  Unfortunately not get to where it needs to be, but have seen, you know what, Rita really did work hard on that. And years down the line, they would call me and be like, I remember that. And do you want to do this? And so you just never know why things are happening to you.

• 49:07Steven Bartlett?

  But you planted seeds, essentially.

• 49:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I really did. And I made really great friends, genuine friendships. And I don't really, I never really knew what they did. And some I did, but it didn't matter. It was just about connecting. Connecting is really important.

• 49:22Steven Bartlett?

  So five years ago was the last time you released an album. What goes into this music? This because music, music, I see it as like different chapters of your life. It's the same with like books and stuff. It's a chapter of, of who you are often.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:38Steven Bartlett?

  What are you pouring into your music these days? Like, what experiences are you pouring into them?

• 49:42Speaker 00

  So, you know, I've been in the business now for over a decade. So I'm looking at timeless. I'm looking at pop icon. I'm looking at things that can stand the test of time because I'm a three sixty entertainer. And what does that look and feel and sound like?

• 50:03Speaker 00

  And so now I'm, I'm at that point in my life of like, how are we establishing this work ethic that I've done all these years to get to this point? And how are we going to become the new Rita Ora pop star in her thirties and enjoy the ride, you know, and really bring people along for the journey? And so that's what my album, You and I, is. It's like a rebirth of this incredible position that I'm in of owning my masters, being in charge of my decisions with music and having an incredible team that can see the future. It's about longevity. It's like, okay, well, this is another step to this point. And then

• 50:45Speaker 00

  hopefully when I'm like in my fifties and sixties, you'll look back and be like, She's still here, you know, that's the goal. That's the aim and the journey of life. That's what I love about Kylie Minogue and Jennifer Lopez. Like, these, these women stand the test of time, in my opinion, and they keep coming back and delivering. And that is something that I aspire.

• 51:07Steven Bartlett?

  It's not easy to do that.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  No, but it's also, yeah, it's not easy, but they've done that by accepting failure. They've accepted failures at certain points in their careers and have kept going and kept driving and kept thriving. And then they're still here.

• 51:22Steven Bartlett?

  What failure have you accepted?

• 51:26Speaker 00

  You know, like, certain things, maybe not positioning chart-wise as well, or making decisions that may have not been right, mistakes being made, or...

• 51:40Steven Bartlett?

  How are you, as an individual, with dealing with those moments, like, honestly? Like, when those things happen, how does, if I'm a fly on the wall?

• 51:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, regret is horrible. You know, I know a lot of people can relate to that, but it feels, you know, I, I was, I feel broken. Like, it makes me feel like everything I've done is about to disappear. Again, back to that fear of sort of losing everything.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  And, um, you know, when the world is also looking at you,

• 52:16Speaker 00

  I don't know, you just,

• 52:22Speaker 00

  you just break, you just break down, you just get so fearful and, um,

• 52:33Speaker 00

  you know, all I was thinking about was like my mum and dad, because they've worked so hard to get me to this point. And, you know, it's not, again, it's not just about me, you know, on my boat that I'm keeping afloat. You know, I've got my whole family and so...

• 52:50Speaker 00

  You know, you can't help but always blame yourself for everything. And the only way forward is to, again, you just have to just keep going. But at the time, you know, you know, you get dragged through hell.

• 53:10Steven Bartlett?

  It's a lot, Rita, a lot of responsibility. It feels like a weight that you've been carrying for a long, long time.

• 53:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, because I've always just been myself. I've always just tried to be really genuine. And I've never changed for like who I am. And that's probably why that, that's probably why I do make these sort of, you know, I don't always get it right. Like, who does? Do you know what I mean?

• 53:41Speaker 00

  But it makes, I feel more human, how about that? You know, I'm just a human, you know, at the end of the day. So the media and all the free, the craziness that comes with what I do. I've now learnt to really sort of separate that, like work life and real life. That doesn't feel like my real life anymore. My real life is having dinner at home and like hanging out with my husband and becoming a step mum and trying to figure out how to cook for kids. You know, that's kind of like, like that, the real life is that for me now.

• 54:15Steven Bartlett?

  You've been taking care of your family for, since, since much younger than anyone should really be, you know, taking care of their families from what I read, looking after them, paying for your parents'.

• 54:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:26Steven Bartlett?

  House and stuff like that.

• 54:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:28Steven Bartlett?

  When you talk about the fear of losing it all as well, is, is, and you mentioned your, your parents there, which was kind of surprising to me, but it brought me back to what I'd read about your early years of like, feeling like you're almost carrying your family too, to some degree. Not just yourself, but there's a lot of people relying on you.

• 54:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, I don't know if that's a.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Immigrant mentality.

• 54:47Steven Bartlett?

  A hundred percent.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  You know, it's because it's almost like family is a big thing for me. We, family is huge for us. So it's like when one goes, we're all going. Like, that's just how I was raised. So maybe that is something to do with that, you know? Kind of all seeking refuge together is that sense of family. So, yeah, I guess it was, for me, it was a no brainer. Like, it was just what I was, I had to do. It wasn't even like I had a choice. In my mind, it was like, well, that's obviously gonna happen for my parents. I'm obviously gonna get that for them. I didn't think there was any other thing to do.

• 55:24Steven Bartlett?

  Broken is a strong word.

• 55:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 55:28Steven Bartlett?

  It's a really strong word. Do you mean that, that word, broken?

• 55:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, kind of.

• 55:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that anyone could say when you feel broken that is gonna put you back together. At that point, when you're like at your lowest, the only way you can get out is if you start climbing. I don't. I wasn't hearing anything when I was broken.

• 55:57Steven Bartlett?

  When were you broken?

• 55:58Speaker 00

  A couple of times. I mean, there's some things that happen behind the scenes, or there's obviously public things that you, that everybody sees.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  Of when, you know, you get plastered on the covers of magazines and tabloids and things like that, and you just feel super violated, you know? But it's something that comes with what you do. It comes with what I do. So it's like a bittersweet, you know? I've never been a complacent person. I'm not complaining about anything that comes with what I do. It's just something that you have to really work on dealing with because it's gonna happen inevitably.

• 56:39Steven Bartlett?

  Nobody will ever see the consequences of it, though. Like, if you just say the word broken to me, I'd think, really? Like, there's, there's stuff that's taken you to that place?

• 56:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure. A hundred percent, multiple times.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Hmm, yeah.

• 57:01Steven Bartlett?

  But you remain strong, at least from external perceptions. Maybe that's, maybe that's an incorrect thing because it's, you talked about masking.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  No, I do. I am strong. I am. I think the fact that I'm still here means I'm strong. I mean, I run a business, you know, I've got people that

• 57:20Speaker 00

  I employ now, you know, and I feel like

• 57:26Speaker 00

  you can always come back, never X anyone out because in my experience, it's like you can really help people that you don't even know you're helping. So, yeah, I mean, I'm strong because I'm very inspired again and I'm loving the idea of rebirthing and positioning and owning a business and you know, running a label and being on TV and doing film and doing music. There's never a break. So it's like, we're always on the go, me and my team. Our bags are packed constantly. And so, you know, you have to be strong, not for, if it's not for me, it's for them.

• 58:09Steven Bartlett?

  Rebirthing, introducing the new Rita Aura.

• 58:12Speaker 00

  Yes, that's exactly how I feel. It's like a new lease of life. We're on another chapter now. This is the new chapter of Rita Musically. She's married. It's like I'm now a step mum, you know, there's like so much that's going on in my life now that I wasn't before, you know, it's cool.

• 58:31Steven Bartlett?

  How did that change you, marriage?

• 58:34Speaker 00

  It didn't really feel any different, honestly. Taika and I were friends for so long before we got together. And he likes to say before we ruined it all.

• 58:48Speaker 00

  But it didn't feel any different because it was such a sort of natural progression to our already withstanding friendship that it was kind of like best friends getting married. Like, that's what it felt like. And we are the same person. We think the same and our lives just really do blend, even though they're both crazy. So I think what it's done for me, it's, it's actually made me more excited about achieving. Things and having new goals that I want to achieve. And I think that we really push each other in that direction.

• 59:25Steven Bartlett?

  Because home is stable now.

• 59:27Speaker 00

  Because home feels super stable.

• 59:29Steven Bartlett?

  Which is a great platform to achieve.

• 59:31Speaker 00

  And I felt like it was a real big achievement for me. Yeah.

• 59:34Steven Bartlett?

  Why?

• 59:35Speaker 00

  Because I just didn't think that was ever going to happen to me.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Because I was never in one place. I was never, I never gave myself the time to, or the energy to put into trying to find a soulmate or do that. Because I was always like, you're either coming on my roller coaster or you're getting off because we're not stopping. And it was really difficult to find somebody that could really manage the pace that my life is in. And then, you know, I met somebody that also lived a life, you know, and has this ability to, you know, be a father and have this creative aspect. And that was really impressive to me. And I was, and I was like, wow, you know, somebody can do it all.

• 1:00:16Steven Bartlett?

  Here's the thing though. So if you had met him when you were 24.

• 1:00:19Speaker 00

  No, hell.

• 1:00:20Steven Bartlett?

  There you go. So it's not really about the person. I think it's more about you.

• 1:00:24Speaker 00

  It was. I was ready. Exactly. And this is what my album is also about. It's not about hoping somebody's going to come and fix everything for you. Cause it's not what I stand for. That's not what like I preach. But it is about, you know, you being in the right frame of mind. And I definitely was when I first met him in a, you know, in a different light in Australia. Yeah.

• 1:00:46Steven Bartlett?

  You were in the right frame of mind when you met him?

• 1:00:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

• 1:00:49Steven Bartlett?

  I'm so intrigued by how our early experiences shape our attachment styles romantically. For me, I was, I had no chance of meeting anybody. I'm shocked that I'm in a relationship now because up until 25, I was like self sabotaging any interest.

• 1:01:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:05Steven Bartlett?

  What did you come to learn about your attachment styles romantically? Like, what did you come to learn about Rita in a romantic relationship?

• 1:01:13Speaker 00

  That it's not just about you. Yeah. And I think I can say that now. It's, thinking back, you know, because my job revolves around me and like what I do. I thought it was the same in relationships, but it's not, you know, you have to sort of, you have to be willing to be a bit selfless sometimes in relationships to be there for the other person. And I don't think I was. I was very much like, you're doing what I'm doing or that's it.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  And that's probably why they all didn't work out until now.

• 1:01:47Speaker 00

  But that was again, the knowledge, like I never really, um, and I don't know why I thought that because my parents have the most incredible marriage and relationship, like they support each other so well. But my life was moving so crazy that I just don't think that, that the other party was, parties etc were like ready, I guess. And I just wasn't, that wasn't my priority also, by the way.

• 1:02:13Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, I, I hear that, that priority point in fact, because for someone who's so scared of losing it.

• 1:02:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:02:18Steven Bartlett?

  It would make sense that they would deprioritise everything else that was a threat to it.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  That's exactly where my head was at, a hundred percent. It was like, it wasn't a big deal. It wasn't a priority.

• 1:02:29Steven Bartlett?

  The way you describe like, if you don't keep up with this train, you're fucking off it.

• 1:02:32Speaker 00

  Right, but that's exactly, no, you know, it's not a good way of thinking, but because I had that fear behind me and driving me, that was, there was nothing that was going to get in the way of that. Until I got a bit older and I realised that there's other points in life that are important, Rita, you know, like finding your sense of family and joy amongst the craziness. And that's like my own, obviously I had my parents and my sister, but you know, I wanted to sort of create my own thing.

• 1:03:05Steven Bartlett?

  Rita believes that now she is married, the press now report on her in a different way. Maybe they're having a crisis meeting at the moment.

• 1:03:13Steven Bartlett?

  Why did you say that?

• 1:03:16Speaker 00

  Because now it's less about like, oh Rita, see, well da, da, da, da. It's like, I feel like now they don't know what to say.

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  It's hilarious because I do believe that. I think now everybody's understood and seen this sort of transition. And I think that, I don't know what they, what goes on in those tabloid offices, but I, I do feel like there's been a shift in the narrative now because they've also exhausted and gone every single route on me that I feel like now they're like, all right, let's just give it to her. She's calmed down a bit.

• 1:03:46Steven Bartlett?

  Did that, did that ever bother you? Honestly?

• 1:03:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:52Steven Bartlett?

  On a human level. I, I think this is important because people don't understand that the things written have a real human consequence further down the line on the individual. Because we, because obviously if you then react to it publicly, that's a new story.

• 1:04:05Speaker 00

  I, I mean, anything you do, it's like a story.

• 1:04:11Speaker 00

  You know, I just, I've learned over the years that less is more. And if you would like to connect or kind of explain your side of things, you know, you do it through art. And so with me, what I've learned is I do it now with my music. And so I tell my story through my songwriting and through videos or things like that.

• 1:04:37Steven Bartlett?

  And your husband, he's an Oscar winning director. So you've worked on some of the, the music videos with him.

• 1:04:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:43Steven Bartlett?

  What's that like working with your husband?

• 1:04:44Speaker 00

  Amazing, you know, not me, I'm also a fan of his, you know? So it wasn't just like, I'm working with him, let's just go for it, you know? I understand, you know, I've been lucky to work with him. I mean, I know he's my husband, but I don't take it for granted, you know? Like, he's written some of my favorite films and Jojo Rabbit and things like that, you know? Those are real iconic stylistically important films of our time. For me to work with him was fun because I knew he was gonna throw things at me, you know, like do this and do that. And like, that's how he works. It's just like, but there's a beauty to his madness. And I was really honoured to be amongst that thing at that night.

• 1:05:28Speaker 00

  We did it actually all in a day and praising you, it felt like a mini movie. It was awesome.

• 1:05:33Steven Bartlett?

  Those, I think there's three records that I listened to upstairs.

• 1:05:36Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:05:36Steven Bartlett?

  Pretty sure those are the three that are coming on the album, you and I, the three singles you've released.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. What did you listen to?

• 1:05:42Steven Bartlett?

  All of them.

• 1:05:42Speaker 00

  Oh, great.

• 1:05:43Steven Bartlett?

  So all very different, although they all made inspired significantly different feelings for me. Praising you felt very like I wanted to party. It felt like, like I'd listened to that in the gym. One of them made me feel a lot more romantically nostalgic.

• 1:05:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:57Steven Bartlett?

  Where you're talking about how someone only loves you in a certain situation.

• 1:06:01Speaker 00

  Oh, you only love me. That's probably that one. What I've tried to do with this album is kind of take you on a thought journey. So it's like. Don't Think Twice is about kind of knowing you like someone and jumping in, which is the opening track of my album. And not thinking and just sort of going with it and seeing where it ends up because you don't know.

• 1:06:18Steven Bartlett?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:06:19Speaker 00

  You always, you know, you think, I can't do this, I'm scared, but you just don't know what's on the other side. And so then You Only Love Me is like that era where you start meeting someone and then you're kind of like, can I tell them I don't wanna see other people or is it too soon? Am I gonna be crazy if I tell them, let's be exclusive or like, when is it the right time? Do you only call me when like you've had a couple of drinks and you've got that confidence boost? Do you actually like me? It's like all those questions you ask yourself in the beginning. But really what you wanna say is, let's be exclusive and I love you. But you don't wanna look crazy. So that's that song. And then it goes through a journey of loving someone and appreciating your friends and self-love.

• 1:07:03Speaker 00

  It's not just about one person, it's about you and I. So it could be you and me, me and the fans, you and yourself. So there's a song on there called Girl in the Mirror, which is about really accepting all of your faults and all of my faults, all the things I don't like about myself and parts of my body, you know, every, everyone goes through those phases. And yeah, there's all of those kind of personal insights to this record that I think is different to all the other two albums I've put out.

• 1:07:32Steven Bartlett?

  And what are you hoping? What's your hopes as you go into this? You're kind of a much more seasoned than you were when you put out the other albums and terms of your experience of this process, the press, the thing comes out, lots of people talk, da, da, da. What's the, what's the goal? What are you hoping?

• 1:07:46Speaker 00

  Do you know what? I really just hope people feel like they know me. That's all I want. I want people to feel really close to me and connected to me and just feel like they know what they're getting. If they're coming to a Rita show, they know, they know what they're gonna get. Great dance songs, pop bangers, we're gonna have a party, we're also gonna get a bit emotional. But I really want people to feel like they can rely and depend on me, especially in a sense of music, of kind of really getting away from their problems and their thoughts. That's all. I just really wanna communicate and connect again. And like I said, reintroduce myself and feel like I'm the girl that they've always known that lives next door to him.

• 1:08:30Steven Bartlett?

  Are you driven or are you dragged?

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  I think I'm driven.

• 1:08:35Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'd like to say I'm driven. A lot of that actually confidence has come from me working out, like waking up and going to the gym. I would never do that before, especially knowing I have a long day, you know, now I wake up an hour before that just to work out. I think that's drive. Because it's also like you're you're already exhausted, you know, you go to sleep and you wake up and you know you have to do it. And after you do it, you know, you feel good. There's never anyone that I've met that has worked out that has left being like, oh, I feel terrible.

• 1:09:07Steven Bartlett?

  That's a non-negotiable.

• 1:09:08Speaker 00

  Non-negotiable. It's like, that's, I think that's why I feel like I'm driven.

• 1:09:12Steven Bartlett?

  What else is non-negotiable in your routine?

• 1:09:16Steven Bartlett?

  You've talked about meditation a little bit, but is there anything else that's your like ritualistic non-negotiables?

• 1:09:22Speaker 00

  Finding a good book.

• 1:09:23Steven Bartlett?

  Interesting, you're a big reader.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  I've I've learnt to, I've joined a little secret book club under a false name. And I love it. And they teach me about books. Right now, I'm meeting, I'm reading Tomorrow, Tomorrow, Tomorrow. Have you read that book?

• 1:09:37Steven Bartlett?

  No.

• 1:09:37Speaker 00

  It's fantastic. It's just so good. It's about these like two friends. It's like a, it's a description of a friendship. That you think goes into a love, love life fest, but it doesn't. It's all about this specific friendship and it's so interesting. And Clara and the Sun, which is another great book about this kid who has an AI robot and it sort of like becomes really human like. It's really interesting. So yeah, that brings me a lot of kind of joy. And yeah, it's just kind of discovering, like I love discovering things. I'm always looking for new music, new artists, films that I haven't seen, like I'm really into sort of discovery.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  And that really inspires me to kind of inspires my creativity. And I'm already thinking the next album and this one's out July fourteenth. And I'm already thinking about the next one.

• 1:10:32Steven Bartlett?

  Your creativity comes from a lot of places, right? I can feel that in you.

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  People for sure, a lot to do with people. And like, I'm always interested in people's stories. I mean, like you, you know, you're so good at asking people the right things. And I kind of really like that. I do that in genuine conversations I have at dinners and things like that. Because you just never really know what you're going to get out of it, you know? And so, yeah, I continue to do that. So if you want to come to dinner with me, get ready.

• 1:11:02Steven Bartlett?

  I'm really busy that day, but I'm joking. Of course I would have. July 14th, your album comes out. I'm very, very excited.

• 1:11:09Speaker 00

  I'm so excited. I'm so happy that we are able to do this and I'm really, really genuinely looking forward to what people are gonna get from this album.

• 1:11:19Steven Bartlett?

  They're gonna get a lot from this album because I can tell that this is, it feels like a, the music is incredibly fresh. I'd have to say that. It's diverse, incredibly diverse. There's, there's sounds. I mean, I'm not a music expert, but just when I play music, I love music. So I spend, I always beat my friends in terms of music consumption every year on that Spotify thing.

• 1:11:37Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:38Steven Bartlett?

  Spotify rap thing. So, but there's so many fresh sounds that I, I heard through your music and to hear.

• 1:11:42Speaker 00

  Thanks.

• 1:11:43Steven Bartlett?

  That five years is actually, I think the distance between albums is also quite useful sometimes because it gives you a chance to have a bit of lived experience. And that comes through in your records. You're now a married woman.

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Steven Bartlett?

  And you're in a new chapter.

• 1:11:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, but all my albums have kind of taken that bit of time. I've never really back to back put out albums. But musically, I'd like to say this is my most artistic album for sure.

• 1:12:07Steven Bartlett?

  We, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest and they, they don't know who they're leaving it for. The question that's been left for you.

• 1:12:15Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:12:16Steven Bartlett?

  This is quite, I think this is quite a good one for you.

• 1:12:18Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:12:19Steven Bartlett?

  People always shit themselves when we get to this point, but I don't know why. I thought my questions were difficult. Question for you is, what would you most like to be remembered for when you die?

• 1:12:29Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:12:32Speaker 00

  My

• 1:12:34Speaker 00

  work ethic and being a nice person.

• 1:12:39Speaker 00

  Those two, being like, wow, she really did that and being really sort of received and everyone saying she was just such a nice, jolly person.

• 1:12:50Steven Bartlett?

  It brought me to something that I was gonna ask, just that, that point, which is, it appears to me that when I sit here with.

• 1:13:01Steven Bartlett?

  The fact that you said work ethic, when I sit here with male artists, they rarely, they very rarely say that.

• 1:13:05Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a whole nother conversation.

• 1:13:08Steven Bartlett?

  It's a whole nother conversation, but it's about the double standards around like.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  Maybe it is that, you know, being a woman too, 100%. No, it's not maybe. It definitely is that, I think, as well. Especially with everything is, from my experience only in the music industry back, I imagine it does definitely filter into any sort of aspect, you know, being heard, being spoken, being, being heard on the table, you know? And also not being forgotten. That's another thing. It's like you don't, you may have done something at some point. And then it could almost be, the credits could go somewhere else. And so you have to almost be consistent, I think, as a woman more than ever.

• 1:13:48Steven Bartlett?

  To get the credit you do.

• 1:13:49Speaker 00

  Almost, I guess, yes. And opinionated. And it's so much more shocking, I would say, if, if a woman is more opinionated. I don't know why, but you know, I don't think in my world, that ain't going anywhere. But I feel really kind of like there's a responsibility for sure, especially for the young girls coming up. I want them to watch this and feel really kind of like inspired by it.

• 1:14:13Steven Bartlett?

  I certainly think they will be. And from doing the research, it was really, really illuminating because I saw, especially that's why I asked the question about that. From the choir to getting signed, I saw someone that was really tenacious and felt like they were being, they had a fire up their ass or something. Because when I read about the, the two, the, the time you spent in training and working in the shoe shop and persuading yourself into certain meeting rooms and certain, certain things like that, that's the narrative that I don't think a lot of people would, would put out there because it's the reality that goes on behind the scenes. It's the boring stuff, but at the very essence of you, it's really why you're sat here now. It's that like, that hustle that came from that refugee immigrant background that caused you to just. To persevere in situations where most people probably wouldn't have persevered

• 1:14:57Steven Bartlett?

  and to keep knocking on doors and to keep saying yes and showing up despite the cost.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  Surviving.

• 1:15:01Steven Bartlett?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  Basically, yeah.

• 1:15:04Steven Bartlett?

  And the sacrifices, you said it yourself.

• 1:15:05Speaker 00

  Thank you.

• 1:15:07Steven Bartlett?

  It's an incredible thing.

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  You know, thank you and it means a lot. You met so many people, so I really appreciate that. I do really understand the platform that this gives as well for people like myself that can just really tell their story. So thank you so much for letting me share my story.

• 1:15:25Steven Bartlett?

  Thank you for being here. It's an honour to have you and you are, you're exactly where we started this show, to tell those stories of really inspiring young people that are doing incredible, incredible things, so.

• 1:15:35Speaker 00

  Well, you just let me know and I'll come back.

• 1:15:37Steven Bartlett?

  For sure, for sure. Well, let's have a chat after the album comes out because I'm super excited for you. So, and I'm sure it's going to be received incredibly well because the first three singles that I've heard so far are insane, so.

• 1:15:46Speaker 00

  Thank you, fingers crossed. Thank you so much.

• 1:15:48Steven Bartlett?

  See you soon, Rita.

• 1:15:49Speaker 00

  Take care.