Goth Gold Digger Exploits Beta Husband | Financial Audit

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 0:59Caleb Hammer?

  To watch episodes of Financial Audit a week earlier, check us out on YouTube.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  Why doesn't she know? Sometimes I just can't say no to you.

• 1:05Speaker 04

  Listen, you have kind of [bleeped] up every year we've been together, so I thought, hey, maybe if I just lay out really clear instructions, then it'll go really well. And then it's still [bleeped] up.

• 1:15Speaker 03

  Hoping to make you happy enough to become financially responsible.

• 1:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's not... I don't think that's gonna work.

• 1:23Speaker 03

  Because what you do is you justify this stuff by looking at how much you're saving, which is just such a trap.

• 1:30Caleb Hammer?

  Download my budgeting app today and take control of your money once and for all. And for a limited time only, sign up for the annual version of Premium and get my cookbook and notebook signed and mailed directly to you. Link in the description and pinned comment below.

• 1:44Speaker 04

  Hi, my name's Karina. I'm 30 years old.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  My name is Theo. I'm also 30. We're here from Wisconsin.

• 1:50Speaker 04

  And this is Financial Audit.

• 1:52Caleb Hammer?

  Thanks for coming down from Wisconsin. What do we do for a living here in front of me? Let's start with you.

• 1:57Speaker 04

  We run a circus entertainment company business, so we perform for a living.

• 2:05Caleb Hammer?

  What do you perform?

• 2:07Speaker 04

  So-

• 2:07Caleb Hammer?

  It's eighteen hundred, okay.

• 2:08Speaker 04

  Fire dancing, LED dancing, uh, we also hire-

• 2:13Caleb Hammer?

  People sign up for you to LED dance?

• 2:15Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:15Caleb Hammer?

  I just see people do that at music festivals for free.

• 2:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do that, but we bring it to like a corporate sort of setting and parades and it's like, it's like that, but-

• 2:24Caleb Hammer?

  You guys walk into corporate buildings?

• 2:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  We go to parties you'd have to pay us to be at.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 2:30Speaker 03

  It's the only way we would get in.

• 2:31Caleb Hammer?

  Wait, are you guys married?

• 2:33Speaker 04

  We are.

• 2:34Caleb Hammer?

  Ah.

• 2:34Speaker 03

  Married AF.

• 2:36Caleb Hammer?

  Huh?

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Married AF.

• 2:39Caleb Hammer?

  How long have you guys been married?

• 2:40Speaker 04

  Five years.

• 2:42Caleb Hammer?

  Wow.

• 2:43Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 2:43Caleb Hammer?

  How, how long have you guys been in business together?

• 2:46Speaker 03

  I started the business a year before we met.

• 2:49Caleb Hammer?

  So it's not complicated?

• 2:50Speaker 03

  Uh, well, it has complications, but that's part of the fun, like-

• 2:55Caleb Hammer?

  Part of the fun?

• 2:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, I like it.

• 2:56Speaker 04

  It's very fun.

• 2:58Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 2:58Speaker 03

  It's a great, it's, to me, it's like, I'd rather-

• 3:01Caleb Hammer?

  Did you guys start working together or banging first? Working or banging?

• 3:04Speaker 04

  Banging.

• 3:05Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, and then you just brought her in?

• 3:07Speaker 03

  And then, um, yeah, it was very easy because, uh, with her being back in Ontario and me being, um, in Wisconsin, uh, once, once, uh, oh, I lost my train of thought.

• 3:20Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  So we met in Wisconsin doing these circus sort of things.

• 3:24Caleb Hammer?

  Sure.

• 3:25Speaker 04

  We were at conventions.

• 3:26Caleb Hammer?

  Circus conventions?

• 3:27Speaker 04

  Yep, yep, with fire dancing and juggling and all this fun stuff. And then we were long distance for about a year and we would fly to these events and, you know, attend and all that.

• 3:39Caleb Hammer?

  How successful is this business?

• 3:41Speaker 04

  It's, well, when it started, it was just a bunch of hippies getting together and, you know, doing gigs. Now-

• 3:47Caleb Hammer?

  There's barely any businesses that start and are successful like that.

• 3:50Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 3:51Caleb Hammer?

  So...

• 3:53Speaker 04

  Now-

• 3:54Caleb Hammer?

  Six years into the business, right?

• 3:56Speaker 03

  Try, yeah, launching and, I mean, even two, doing business before we were in LLC.

• 3:59Caleb Hammer?

  How we doing?

• 4:00Speaker 03

  So, uh, better than ever, which isn't good enough. And-

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 4:04Speaker 03

  Doing better, like, all the reasons we have to believe it will work as long as we figure it out. So we're making, do you want me to tell you how much we're making? I won't.

• 4:13Caleb Hammer?

  I would like you to tell me how much we're making.

• 4:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, uh, we've got it kind of figured out to, if we take like last year's income and go twelve months, um, we're looking at like fifteen K each from kind of just business.

• 4:25Caleb Hammer?

  Not for the year.

• 4:27Speaker 03

  For the year.

• 4:30Speaker 04

  For the year.

• 4:32Speaker 03

  And, uh.

• 4:33Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, for fuck's sake.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 4:35Caleb Hammer?

  Guys, what are we doing?

• 4:36Speaker 04

  We're loving our lives, Caleb.

• 4:38Caleb Hammer?

  Loving your lives.

• 4:39Speaker 04

  We're loving our lives.

• 4:40Caleb Hammer?

  Pay for it. Well, how do you keep a roof over your head? Thirty thousand dollars for the household net?

• 4:45Speaker 04

  Well, we live with a roommate who's really great.

• 4:47Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  So that helps offset expenses.

• 4:50Caleb Hammer?

  And you rent from them?

• 4:52Speaker 04

  No.

• 4:52Speaker 03

  No. This is the, this is the first time we've done business on its own without more of a day job.

• 4:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 03

  So.

• 4:58Caleb Hammer?

  When, when, when was the last time we had a day job?

• 5:01Speaker 04

  Well, we still do, but we've tapered down the hours.

• 5:03Caleb Hammer?

  What's the day job?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  We, uh.

• 5:06Caleb Hammer?

  We together again?

• 5:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:08Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, what do you guys do together for a day job? Cause thirty thousand dollars for a household net is, yeah, not good enough.

• 5:13Speaker 04

  Not great, uh, so we help out a friend's mom's business and we are basically like putting up real estate signs and removing real estate signs, so it's, it's like.

• 5:23Caleb Hammer?

  How many hours of week can pay is that?

• 5:26Speaker 04

  Like.

• 5:27Speaker 03

  Kind of what we ask for, which is why it's perfect.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  Also variable, right? Like sometimes we have a six hour day, sometimes we have like a ten hour day.

• 5:35Caleb Hammer?

  Bring in a month from that net?

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Six hundred from, and then eight hundred from me.

• 5:39Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 5:40Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, for fuck's sake. Also, her name is Karina.

• 5:43Speaker 03

  Oh, Karina.

• 5:44Caleb Hammer?

  That's okay.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  And for that, um, I think you're also looking at like.

• 5:49Caleb Hammer?

  Is that net? Fourteen hundred net? And why do you guys separate so much instead of the household? Okay, so net and not being claimed for taxes.

• 5:56Speaker 04

  Well.

• 5:56Caleb Hammer?

  I'm assuming now that you said that, great, all right. Great, really good.

• 6:03Caleb Hammer?

  All right, well, we also have an extra twenty five hundred net coming in on a monthly basis. Wait.

• 6:10Caleb Hammer?

  Does the buy, the business file taxes?

• 6:12Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  I'm painstakingly taxi.

• 6:15Caleb Hammer?

  Why would you want to get your business by not paying taxes on the other stuff, though? Why, why, why fuck yourselves? Why potentially fuck yourselves?

• 6:23Speaker 03

  I think that it's, it's been a really silly option of sort of thinking, we'll do this for this month. We'll do this one more month.

• 6:29Caleb Hammer?

  How long have you been doing it? How many months?

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Less than a year.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  Nine, nine months?

• 6:33Caleb Hammer?

  What were you doing to survive before that? Because obviously this wasn't enough.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  No, bartending has always been really successful as a open the day job sort of.

• 6:42Caleb Hammer?

  Why did we stop bartending?

• 6:44Speaker 04

  We moved.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we moved. It doesn't, that's not the reason I stopped because there's plenty of places to bartend no matter where you move.

• 6:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:50Caleb Hammer?

  People are alcoholics in Wisconsin.

• 6:51Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm, I'm here, we're ready to consider getting back into bartending.

• 6:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  The reason I got out of it is to try and manage my time enough to, to figure out the business and like, it's, it's just been a train wreck of like, just not really being able to adjust to fluctuating income and not responsibly setting aside taxes. So at the end of the year, you're screwed.

• 7:12Speaker 04

  And then, and then it felt really good because the.

• 7:14Caleb Hammer?

  This is a lot of paperwork, guys.

• 7:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:16Caleb Hammer?

  Bringing in this amount of money is unacceptable for your business even. Because this is risk holding over your business.

• 7:23Speaker 04

  Okay, but.

• 7:24Caleb Hammer?

  This is prevents you from reinvesting time, reinvesting energy, reinvesting mental bandwidth, reinvesting money into the business. This is a risk. This prevents you from taking further risk that should be going towards the business. Instead, it's just overhanging.

• 7:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 7:42Caleb Hammer?

  So why are we [BLEEP]? Well, it's because you make no money, but why are we [BLEEP]?

• 7:46Speaker 04

  Because we make no money and we like to spend money.

• 7:48Caleb Hammer?

  You're choosing to make no money. How can you spend money? How can you spend money? You don't have money. How can you spend money?

• 7:53Speaker 04

  Well, money is like super variable for us. So, you know, like.

• 7:56Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but we know on average with everything combined, you're bringing in forty six thousand eight hundred dollars net for the household.

• 8:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 8:03Caleb Hammer?

  That's pretty sweet.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  And then it's variable. So then a big gig will come in and then I get excited because I see like, oh, like this month we're making ten grand and like, that's really great. Oh, like what can I invest into the business? What can I? And then it's, and then I can justify anything.

• 8:17Caleb Hammer?

  Level out. Why don't you guys level out? High months, low months. Why don't you guys level out?

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Well, that's what we're trying to do.

• 8:22Caleb Hammer?

  What is trying to do? What does that look like? Because look where we are. I Googled my name and email the other day just for fun and it turned out to not be so fun. Dozens of creepy data broker sites had my info splattered across the internet. And I felt like I was walking into a party where everyone knows your social security number. And that's why today's. Sponsored by Aura. If you've ever wondered why you're getting sketchy scam calls or how scammers found your info, this is why. Data brokers sell your personal data without your consent. And while you can ask them to remove it, the process is purposely confusing. Aura handles the mess for you. They automatically remove your info from all those shady sites and keep it off. But Aura goes way beyond that. It's an all-in-one digital security tool that alerts

• 9:06Caleb Hammer?

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• 9:36Speaker 03

  You just answered it. One thing is talking to people who know what they're talking about, trying to leverage all the free resources we can in terms of like, I want to pitch like the SBDC, wherever you live, the Small Business Development Center is like a really good resource.

• 9:52Caleb Hammer?

  And what are you using?

• 9:54Speaker 03

  So getting them to do our contracts, getting to help us with like contract templates and making sure LLCs filed correctly and taxes look good.

• 10:02Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, by the way, the median household income for the city you're in is $76,968.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  A lot more than we make.

• 10:08Caleb Hammer?

  Two years ago. Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:11Speaker 03

  You mean it could be worse now?

• 10:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, but I live a really, I'm really wealthy with all the friends I have and I'm really wealthy with like the lifestyle I live.

• 10:19Caleb Hammer?

  Well, yeah, but that's fueled by debt. The friend thing, yeah, we can do that without that and we can do that without a lot of money, but your lifestyle, that's debt. You don't fucking make money. What are you talking about?

• 10:29Speaker 04

  Well, I get to go and do a gig and travel for that and be in hotels.

• 10:35Caleb Hammer?

  Wait, wait, wait. We know what you're making net. Is that after travel or before travel?

• 10:39Speaker 04

  That's after. That's after paying all the other performers. That's after all the, that's after all of the expenses.

• 10:46Caleb Hammer?

  What kind of future is in? 2025 circusing.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Really solid.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  Really solid, abnormally solid.

• 10:54Caleb Hammer?

  Which is why you guys make no money. I'm confused. Okay, so tell me.

• 10:57Speaker 03

  I have a contract for like 37 grand right now. So it's like a start.

• 11:01Caleb Hammer?

  Contract that is signed and official and you've been paid?

• 11:04Speaker 03

  And so all the contracts are signed.

• 11:06Caleb Hammer?

  And what is this contract?

• 11:07Speaker 03

  You're right. You're right. It hasn't happened yet. Anything can happen.

• 11:10Caleb Hammer?

  The contract hasn't happened yet?

• 11:11Speaker 04

  Well, it's from August until October.

• 11:14Speaker 03

  The event.

• 11:14Speaker 04

  It's like an entire three-month exhibit that we get to go to every single night. And so.

• 11:20Caleb Hammer?

  I hope it works.

• 11:21Speaker 04

  It's gonna be really great.

• 11:23Caleb Hammer?

  That also takes you away from this other side income. So you have to be there every day.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  It's ideally the best case scenario is, yeah, it's like, it doesn't make sense until we figure out what more work is.

• 11:33Caleb Hammer?

  That's for a quarter. We're freaking out about 36, right? 36,000? But that's not net, because you have to pay people, right?

• 11:40Speaker 04

  No, because exactly. It depends on how many of those nights will work.

• 11:42Speaker 03

  Net is 90,000.

• 11:46Caleb Hammer?

  What?

• 11:46Speaker 03

  Because we are a 70-plus percent expense into contract labor type of business.

• 11:52Caleb Hammer?

  So you mean gross 90,000?

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Correct.

• 11:53Caleb Hammer?

  So 30,000 is what you make?

• 11:55Speaker 03

  Is our profit after all the expenses and taxes and taxes.

• 12:00Caleb Hammer?

  That's for three months.

• 12:04Caleb Hammer?

  So be, if you're able to replicate that, that's, you know, 120,000 dollars a year. If you're able to replicate that every single quarter forever.

• 12:13Speaker 04

  Which is very unlikely.

• 12:15Caleb Hammer?

  Exactly. And that's my concern here. Why aren't we buckling down, going crazy, going insane to pay off the debt so that you can spend more time? When you do not have that over your head and you have like a one-year emergency fund as a business owner, you're able to spend more time taking these risks. Going crazy.

• 12:36Speaker 04

  Well, it feels so good to be able to pay our friends. Like, the business brought in 90 grand, I think like 60 something went to friends.

• 12:44Caleb Hammer?

  Lifestyle. So I don't even care. Exactly. Exactly. Listen to that. You're gonna make 30,000 dollars net in three months, 10,000 hours. This is gonna go away. This is gonna go away. Look how you guys live, right? Want it to just go away? Or is it gonna be stockpiled? Is it gonna go towards debt or is it gonna go towards lifestyle?

• 13:00Speaker 04

  Well.

• 13:01Speaker 03

  I have a great record of paying off our debt eventually.

• 13:07Caleb Hammer?

  And building it back up. What does that mean? What? What are you saying?

• 13:10Speaker 04

  You, have you paid any of my debt, though?

• 13:14Speaker 03

  Have I?

• 13:14Caleb Hammer?

  Why, why five years in are we still hers, mine, mine, his? No, you're-

• 13:18Speaker 04

  Well, mine is international, right? Like, my debt is Canadian.

• 13:21Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, you can still help. You're a household, you're combined, though. So you guys are not a partnership? Obviously, in business, you are. Are you in life?

• 13:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 13:28Caleb Hammer?

  Then why don't you conquer it together?

• 13:29Speaker 04

  Well, because we both have student debt. It just seems like he'll conquer his and I'll conquer mine. It's like, that, that stuff happened.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Uh, I, I don't know. We sound not on the same page already.

• 13:38Caleb Hammer?

  Not with this thick sack of paper.

• 13:39Speaker 03

  Because, no, we're like, we're not intending, I have no intention of you paying your, your student loans in another country. Like, it feels like we just drop it.

• 13:49Caleb Hammer?

  So last month was a higher month. We made about, you know, 5,500.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  Uh huh.

• 13:54Caleb Hammer?

  Cool. We just, whoa, whoa, went out.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  A lot.

• 13:58Speaker 03

  Last month, though?

• 13:59Speaker 04

  A lot.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, it would have been a lot less. But we, you, you said we should invest in the business.

• 14:03Caleb Hammer?

  It was a lower month.

• 14:05Speaker 03

  We over-invested in the month, always.

• 14:07Caleb Hammer?

  What? It was $6,000. So that's only $500 more.

• 14:10Speaker 03

  That's a Karina question.

• 14:12Speaker 04

  So, it's very exciting to think about upgrading our shows. And we got reached out to by an LED designer, who is gonna make us, like, LED costuming. And then I'm gonna be able to program the costumes with the props. And it's like this little, little mini Vegas show. And so, it's just really exciting. And I wanna get them, but they're very expensive.

• 14:38Caleb Hammer?

  And we've proved this will be a revenue booster? What's the return on investment that we're cuck-? I don't, what, what is eyebrow? What is creepy eyebrows you're giving me? He's, he's creep eyebrow-ing me.

• 14:47Speaker 04

  There are so many things that people ask for, in terms of show stuff. And LED suits is not necessarily one of them.

• 14:54Caleb Hammer?

  Then, don't. How much would it cost?

• 14:58Speaker 04

  I already paid the deposit.

• 14:59Caleb Hammer?

  For fuck's sake, what's the deposit?

• 15:00Speaker 04

  The deposit was about 900.

• 15:02Caleb Hammer?

  And what's the remainder?

• 15:04Speaker 04

  Uh, like, 2,000-ish?

• 15:08Caleb Hammer?

  So you don't care about paying out that?

• 15:10Speaker 04

  I-

• 15:10Caleb Hammer?

  What are our priorities?

• 15:13Speaker 04

  Doing the best shows and living a really happy life. That's not the answer you want, probably.

• 15:22Caleb Hammer?

  That's our goal? This is everything? What's our financial goals here? What are we trying to do?

• 15:28Speaker 04

  I would, up until now, I've really just tried to like survive financially. Like I was.

• 15:35Caleb Hammer?

  How do we manage the household's finances?

• 15:38Speaker 03

  Google Sheets.

• 15:39Speaker 04

  Google Sheets.

• 15:40Speaker 03

  Google Sheets, a lot of it.

• 15:41Caleb Hammer?

  But both of you together, you come together and you manage.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  No, he, he really makes them.

• 15:46Caleb Hammer?

  Give me some insight. What are we doing? What are we doing financially as a household? How are we managing this? How are we communicating?

• 15:54Speaker 04

  So you make the Google Sheets and then you share the Google Sheets with me. And.

• 15:59Speaker 05

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• 16:29Caleb Hammer?

  Well, what do you mean? He makes them? So he just does it, you guys combined, but without you looking, he just makes it?

• 16:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, all of our stuff is.

• 16:37Caleb Hammer?

  Without your feedback?

• 16:39Speaker 04

  Um, well, no, that's when I look at it.

• 16:41Caleb Hammer?

  Are you meant to then follow it or leave a comment is what is happening?

• 16:45Speaker 04

  So we look at it like on the computer together and I'll help him organize it and whatever. But he does a pretty good job on his own. It's the problem is like not following it and not paying attention and just feeling like I have money.

• 16:58Caleb Hammer?

  Why do we make it if we don't follow it? Is, are you following it and she's not?

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Well, all of the things are on auto pay. So I just figure like, I don't have to necessarily think about it.

• 17:06Caleb Hammer?

  What's the intent?

• 17:07Speaker 03

  I think that, you know, what's, what's really getting a little bit out of hand is just like not communicating enough as these like expenses pile up because every one of them from choice to choice is like somewhat reasonable. And then you kind of look back and you're like, oh God.

• 17:25Speaker 04

  I spent a lot of money.

• 17:26Speaker 03

  You did, we did, I did. Like for me, it's an enabling thing. I have a really like, that's why I do all these spreadsheets and things.

• 17:31Caleb Hammer?

  Are you guys fully combined?

• 17:33Speaker 04

  We have like, I have my separate checking and savings. He has his separate checking and savings. And then we've got our joint checking and savings that all the bills kind of come out of. And then there's another account just for the business for that to for those checks to go through and the performers to get paid. Um, and then there's the business credit card. Oh, and well, that doesn't exist yet, but we should.

• 17:58Caleb Hammer?

  How much did you guys talk about money before getting married?

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Almost not at all.

• 18:04Caleb Hammer?

  How long were you guys dating before marriage?

• 18:06Speaker 04

  Almost a year. And then.

• 18:08Caleb Hammer?

  That's pretty quick. Almost a year?

• 18:10Speaker 04

  Oh, no, we've got, we've got the world in the story. Because we were long distance for like almost a year and then I was.

• 18:16Caleb Hammer?

  Why'd you get married so quickly?

• 18:17Speaker 04

  Because I got stuck here during COVID.

• 18:19Caleb Hammer?

  What do you mean? From where?

• 18:21Speaker 04

  So I was traveling from Canada. Um, so we were, it's honestly, that's here and we're there. Um, so I was traveling from Canada. We were at an event together and then that's when, you know, March of 2020 happened and everything went kind of crazy. And I got an email that was like, oh, like you can refund your flight, like you should avoid non-essential travel. And I was like, wow, that sounds great. That sounds like two more weeks with my boyfriend.

• 18:48Caleb Hammer?

  Quickly to stay?

• 18:49Speaker 04

  Essentially.

• 18:50Caleb Hammer?

  We got, we got.

• 18:51Speaker 04

  What about your finances? Did he not know? He didn't know, I mean, basically any of it. Like we, we didn't talk much about it. It was, uh, it was, we were a lot more focused on like, am I allowed to be here? Should I travel home? Like, what does it look like to stay here? And then, and then the immigration lawyer just said, like, go get married. And we're like, okay. And then. They make it sound so easy. Yeah. So then in those talks with the, with the immigration lawyer, she was like, you know, asking for his taxes and things. And, and then she told me that none of my Canadian stuff mattered. She's like, it doesn't matter about your credit score. It doesn't matter about your debt. It doesn't matter about.

• 19:33Caleb Hammer?

  Was it?

• 19:34Speaker 04

  How much was what?

• 19:35Caleb Hammer?

  The tax debt.

• 19:36Speaker 04

  The tax debt? Oh, I never filed. I never have filed taxes in Canada.

• 19:42Speaker 03

  That was one of those surprises that came out.

• 19:45Caleb Hammer?

  Ever?

• 19:45Speaker 04

  Ever.

• 19:46Caleb Hammer?

  And they're okay? They never said anything?

• 19:49Speaker 04

  No one said anything. So I was a student for a long time. So I was like in nursing school and doing that.

• 19:53Caleb Hammer?

  You look like a perma-student. It's true.

• 19:55Speaker 04

  I went to nursing school. I graduated. I got the heck out. I'm not a perma-student. I did love school though, so you're not totally wrong. Anyway. Um, so, yeah, I was in nursing school, did that, uh, and then, what was the, I'm sorry, what was the question? What was your question?

• 20:10Caleb Hammer?

  You don't know how much you might owe, but it doesn't even matter because they don't even know.

• 20:14Speaker 04

  I, I probably would have just missed out on tax returns because I was in school for that, you know, those two years.

• 20:20Caleb Hammer?

  So why didn't you file ever? This isn't showing any kind of responsibility coming into the relationship.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  Well, no, and...

• 20:26Caleb Hammer?

  Especially managing a business. No, you're not fi- you're not claiming the fourteen hundred dollars you make in cash a month.

• 20:33Speaker 04

  Well, my mom really didn't do taxes on her business and so that's not an excuse for me at all, but like I just definitely never learned any of that. And then I did try to go file in nursing school, but then...

• 20:45Caleb Hammer?

  What's your legal status in this country?

• 20:47Speaker 04

  I'm permanent resident.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Green card, permanent resident.

• 20:52Caleb Hammer?

  What do they think about people not paying their taxes?

• 20:55Speaker 04

  They don't care. The immigration lawyer told me they don't care about your Canadian taxes, your, any debt you have, your credit score.

• 21:02Caleb Hammer?

  You're not claiming the fourteen hundred.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  Well, that is recent.

• 21:07Caleb Hammer?

  The Canadian taxes.

• 21:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna jump in.

• 21:11Caleb Hammer?

  You're making now.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  We are not, like, we were behind on taxes.

• 21:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  By two and a half grand with a payment plan, got caught up.

• 21:21Speaker 04

  Mm-hmm.

• 21:22Speaker 03

  And...

• 21:23Speaker 04

  And then didn't save for this year.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  For this year. So there's a three grand tax debt on last year's money.

• 21:29Caleb Hammer?

  Oh my f-

• 21:30Speaker 03

  It's another payment plan.

• 21:32Caleb Hammer?

  You can't even pay off your debt. How are you paying for three thou- how are you paying for three thousand?

• 21:36Speaker 03

  Just time, man. It's not gonna happen.

• 21:40Caleb Hammer?

  So you've already negotiated a monthly payment?

• 21:42Speaker 03

  With, yeah, with IRS.

• 21:43Caleb Hammer?

  So you have interest accruing?

• 21:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 21:46Caleb Hammer?

  How much?

• 21:48Speaker 04

  I actually don't know. That's a you question.

• 21:50Speaker 03

  Two point five percent.

• 21:52Speaker 04

  That doesn't sound bad.

• 21:53Caleb Hammer?

  I don't think so. That doesn't make sense. That doesn't make sense. They usually do fed rate plus more.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  What's fed rate?

• 21:59Caleb Hammer?

  It's usually, it's, well, what is fed rate? And now like... Well, I don't know. I'm assuming yours would be like seven, though.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  I, it's not good. I'll tell you, I don't need the debt. I don't need interest to create debt.

• 22:11Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, no shit. So why'd you allow it instead of just saving up like?

• 22:14Speaker 04

  Because we make so little money.

• 22:15Speaker 03

  You don't, it's-

• 22:16Caleb Hammer?

  Ah, so maybe we should do something different because it's not working and we're five years in, six years in and we can't survive, huh?

• 22:22Speaker 03

  It always worked when I had a day job.

• 22:24Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  When I stopped-

• 22:26Caleb Hammer?

  Yes, but you don't have a day job. You-

• 22:29Speaker 03

  That sounds nice. I hear that, right? Anyway.

• 22:34Caleb Hammer?

  You don't have a day job.

• 22:39Caleb Hammer?

  It worked when you did the thing that was correct. You're not doing the thing that is correct.

• 22:43Speaker 03

  I'm ready to do the thing that is correct again.

• 22:46Caleb Hammer?

  Then why aren't you?

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Because we have a three-month-long gig that's gonna, we have to do every day, so it doesn't make sense to get that job now.

• 22:53Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but you've been doing the posters in people's driveways crap for a long time. When'd you know you're getting this three-month gig?

• 23:00Speaker 04

  A couple of months.

• 23:02Caleb Hammer?

  Exactly. You could have been doing this for a while. You could have had a job for a bit. Right?

• 23:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 03

  There's no doubt. Yeah, I, I-

• 23:08Caleb Hammer?

  So what is different? Nothing. You're on the show, so you're trying to look good.

• 23:14Speaker 04

  I think I look good.

• 23:18Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, so listen, with this money thing and the business and stuff, is there any tension in like the relationship with all this time? Because the financial stress is one of the leading reasons for divorce in this country. Uh, is there tension?

• 23:34Speaker 04

  All the time. All the time.

• 23:36Caleb Hammer?

  Tell me about it. What is going on?

• 23:37Speaker 04

  Um, just, just traveling here. We almost killed each other.

• 23:41Caleb Hammer?

  Why?

• 23:42Speaker 04

  Because it was, it was a long day. We booked, well, you booked the wrong day for the hotel.

• 23:51Caleb Hammer?

  We did?

• 23:52Speaker 04

  No, no, no. We did. Um, that's why you guys don't book the hotels. It's like, that's, nope. So, so we ended up staying with a friend. Um, so that was a big savior, but yeah, the whole travel was a mess. We were like at each other's throats in the airport.

• 24:07Caleb Hammer?

  What about talking about the money? When you guys talk about money-

• 24:10Speaker 03

  There was about the money, really?

• 24:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was about the money, wasn't it?

• 24:13Caleb Hammer?

  What happens? Demonstrate these conversations to me.

• 24:15Speaker 03

  I think, I, I, you know, uh, the, the fighting over this tattoo, like, there's a sense of impulsiveness that I can really get behind like nine out of 10 times.

• 24:26Caleb Hammer?

  Tattoo?

• 24:27Speaker 04

  I almost got a tattoo yesterday.

• 24:29Speaker 03

  Okay, so you're who you're gonna get a tattoo?

• 24:32Speaker 04

  I was gonna get a tattoo. It was a birthday thing and

• 24:36Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  Well, it's like

• 24:38Speaker 03

  Everything's a birthday fucking thing on this show.

• 24:40Speaker 04

  I really like to get tattoos because I get to, you know, search different artists and do all that and check it out and find one I like. And it was really nice and it was gonna be a birthday gift. And then we were looking at finances in preparation. And it was, oh yeah, actually, never mind. We can't afford this. We should cancel. And then that made me really emotional. And so now we're fighting about my birthday and

• 25:06Speaker 03

  That's, yeah, I think that's all really fair in the sense that like This is a really good example of like what part of the problem is is like

• 25:16Speaker 04

  Well, you've fucked up my birthday pretty much every year.

• 25:19Speaker 03

  Have a habit of making the same mistakes and then being upset that we're still having them. And it would be really, really nice. It's just you're like, it's one thing to be hard to say no to like, oh, I just love saying yes to you. It's like, sometimes I just can't say no to you. Like you like, like you like change. Like it's different.

• 25:39Speaker 04

  Well, listen, you have kind of fucked up my birthday like every year we've been together. So I thought, hey, maybe if I just lay out really clear instructions for what you should get me. Then it'll go really well. And then it's still fucked up this year.

• 25:56Speaker 03

  We, the whole flight here, the spent a lot of time fighting about just like, Why are we doing this? I should definitely do it. If I don't do it, you're you're doing another messed up birthday. You're dropping the ball again. So I'm losing my cool over like Just kind of this recurring, they're like, like I fuck everything up, you know? And it it also like every time I could kind of get you to to come down with it a little bit and and sort of feel a little bit more Like you, you maybe shouldn't get the tattoo like that even maybe canceling it is a good idea.

• 26:31Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  And then as soon as you do that, you hate everything so much that you're a totally different person and we're just like a mess.

• 26:36Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, I I shut down a lot, but I just really wanted it and I am, I don't know.

• 26:45Speaker 03

  I wish you could have gotten it. I wish you could see that we can't.

• 26:51Speaker 04

  Well, so that's the tattoo story. I almost got a tattoo. I didn't get a tattoo.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  $500 tattoo.

• 26:58Caleb Hammer?

  Do you feel he dominated your decision in that?

• 27:01Speaker 04

  A little, yeah.

• 27:03Caleb Hammer?

  How does this go? I mean, that can't be creating. It gets hard when the other person's like, a no, no, no. But also, maybe it needs to be financially, but what are we doing in this situation? Do you feel like you're being financially controlled?

• 27:20Speaker 04

  Uh, I feel like, oh, I guess a little in this context, but I just, I don't do as much work as, and so then I'm like, well, if he wants to just get like, control the things, then I'll just sort of back down and just be sad.

• 27:38Caleb Hammer?

  And you're okay with that?

• 27:40Speaker 04

  Well.

• 27:40Caleb Hammer?

  You just put up with that? Do you speak up?

• 27:44Speaker 04

  I, I kind of just shut down and don't speak up, and then that drives him a little more crazy because he just really wants everything to be happy all the time.

• 27:51Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah. I mean, what do you think hearing this? I mean, she just shuts down and she just, she just stops.

• 27:57Speaker 03

  I think that it's like preferable half the time to like just fighting and being more on fire about like, just all the feelings that go into like a financial decision seem to trump the financial decision like regularly, whether it's like, like international travel or like investing in the business or investing in like an actual, I think it's okay to invest in a vacation, but like, we can't, we can't and we need to not. And then when we don't, life is so miserable that I'm like, at least you need to go. At least you need to do something because I'll take the reprieve, you take the vacation. It's more affordable and it's still not affordable.

• 28:38Caleb Hammer?

  So you guys just separate?

• 28:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, I tend to go on more like trips and stuff.

• 28:43Caleb Hammer?

  And it's to make you happy, even though it's still financially hurts the household. But he's just like, you both give up. You're not willing to stand up to him. He's not willing to stand up to you sometimes. You guys just give up to avoid confrontation? To avoid confrontation? That doesn't get us anywhere eventually. This is a fun one. I get to get you free money and then I get to get myself free money. It's a pure win-win for both of us. What do you have to do? Sign up for a SoFi High Yield Savings Account and get a welcome bonus of $300. Sign up for Acorns using my link and get $20 instead of the usual $5. Finally, sign up for Silo and earn up to $5,000 in cash back on your own stocks.

• 29:23Caleb Hammer?

  These offers have been negotiated to give us both more money than using traditional sign-up methods. So use the links in the Resources section of the description below and get yourself $5,320 right now. I mean, eventually that just leads us down a bad path, right?

• 29:41Speaker 04

  I mean, I, I'm more on team like, let's make memories, let's have experiences, let's do all this and...

• 29:48Caleb Hammer?

  Yes, but you could have more if you were financially... You can't have the experience of running a proper business with all this risk over your head.

• 29:56Speaker 04

  Well, true, but I just get so tired of it because that's what he does all day. He's like in the office, like doing spreadsheets, like all day.

• 30:06Caleb Hammer?

  Which is, which is, which is what you have to do as an entrepreneur.

• 30:12Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 30:12Caleb Hammer?

  My entire brain is focused on this business. Unfortunately, it really is. At one point it was more of a hobby. It's full-on business now and that's what it ends up becoming. And your guys' like workplace personality, it might be completely different. It's, you know, it's very interesting. A lot of us, we've done the DISC assessment around here to see where we stand. He's probably in that more entrepreneurial fucking like where like, uh, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, all those people are, they tend to be in that D area. That's where I am too. I just go and I focus on it where you might just be on that other side, which means maybe you guys in order for the sake of the marriage shouldn't be in the business together.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  I totally disagree with you there because I think-

• 30:55Caleb Hammer?

  But you were like, "Oh no, we focus on the business."

• 30:57Speaker 04

  Well, we just do two different aspects of the business, right?

• 31:01Caleb Hammer?

  What's yours?

• 31:01Speaker 04

  He's doing the spreadsheets and the computer stuff. I'm working on-

• 31:05Caleb Hammer?

  Yours is going to fucking Europe?

• 31:07Speaker 04

  He's the one that wants to go to Europe, not me. But no, I'm working on like costumes, putting shows together, LED programming, like putting the actual creative things together. Like, there's a lot that goes into a show that is not just like, "Oh, we're gonna do this for 45 minutes and uh, we're gonna park here and we're gonna these logistics and all that." Like, that's a lot of work, don't get me wrong, but I'm doing the creative stuff that is actually like, making the client happy with the themes and different things.

• 31:37Caleb Hammer?

  Do you agree?

• 31:40Speaker 03

  I think what she's saying is still true, in the sense that like, her responsibilities, which are equally important to what I'm doing and things I would be bad at, like styling people and choosing their costumes and makeup and what we should look like and how our show looks.

• 31:55Caleb Hammer?

  You're not a wife. Whoa.

• 31:59Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 32:00Caleb Hammer?

  In that position. Cause look, you guys are already going like endlessly. And a lot of it is cuz of work, but a lot of it is cuz of finances and a lot of it is cuz what you wanna do. But all that is because you guys are just two together and everything. We promote togetherness, but togetherness in business and love and all of that?

• 32:19Speaker 04

  It's a lot.

• 32:20Caleb Hammer?

  It's getting, it's way too much. Even if it was uber-successful, maybe you guys would wanna go in different directions business-wise.

• 32:27Speaker 04

  Well, we already kind of do.

• 32:29Caleb Hammer?

  Well, exactly. So doesn't, you might just need to go get a job.

• 32:32Speaker 04

  Well, you're not wrong, okay, but, but we complement each other really well in terms of-

• 32:39Caleb Hammer?

  I'm sure you do.

• 32:40Speaker 04

  We balance each other out, right?

• 32:41Caleb Hammer?

  Does it outweigh the negatives?

• 32:42Speaker 04

  I-

• 32:43Caleb Hammer?

  The strain on the relationship.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 32:45Caleb Hammer?

  What's more important, the business or your marriage?

• 32:48Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 32:48Speaker 04

  What? Oh, that was heavy.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  They said they're different. They said they're different.

• 32:52Speaker 04

  They're separate? Whoa. Um, the marriage.

• 32:56Speaker 03

  The marriage.

• 32:57Speaker 04

  The marriage.

• 32:58Speaker 03

  The marriage.

• 32:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 32:59Speaker 03

  Okay, then maybe you have to. It's a little spooky to imagine it without it.

• 33:02Speaker 04

  We both really love the business in the way that, like, we balance each other out and, and like, he's the function and I'm the form and it all works and it just needs to work better for us to survive in an expensive place.

• 33:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:16Speaker 04

  But, oh, and then the other thing is like, he's way more focused on booking other people, right? Like, we're working with a lot of more, or a lot of new artists having moved to a different city. So it's like, still walkers, aerialists, aerial bartending, all these different things are happening, and that's not us, right? That's all the income that's coming into the business that's going elsewhere. And I'm way more focused on like, our show, like, programming our show to be like, corporate and awesome and like, super sellable, right? Whereas he's focused on like, the logistics and the other people.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Listen, you guys do what you want. I just, I just...

• 33:56Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 33:58Speaker 03

  You guys might have to choose in the end.

• 34:01Speaker 04

  You're not wrong. I'm just not ready for that choice.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  I know. Ben, I mean, you guys are being selfish in different ways. You're selfish, I mean, you're kind of admittedly selfish, right? When it comes to a lot of the business things. So it's like, what are we doing?

• 34:14Speaker 04

  Well, I can justify almost anything as a business expense. That's sort of my issue.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, the IRS will find out if you guys ever get audited.

• 34:22Speaker 04

  Well, we've got documents to talk about it, anyway.

• 34:25Speaker 03

  Doesn't mean you're right. A lot of people write off things that are not write-offs.

• 34:30Speaker 04

  That's true, but we have a tax guy that helps us, so that's good.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  We're trying to do it all right. We're trying to do it all right.

• 34:36Speaker 04

  I'm trying to do it proper.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  I'm not necessarily worried about what I've already done. I'm worried that I can't keep doing it or that it won't get good enough to actually, like, to, to stop just investing time and money into it and to actually feel like it's, it's off the ground, you know? And, and it's this dance of like, I have to work enough to pay for the, the stupidly expensive place that we live that maybe we shouldn't have moved to as another emotional, emotionally impulsive decision to like...

• 35:09Speaker 03

  Change everything into like, like our lifestyle, our amount of rent, the, the number of different places we're attending and like, what is around us? Like, we don't go out to bars, like, but we'll go out to eat.

• 35:21Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Speaker 03

  And we'll go to see shows. We will go see live entertainment and now we're surrounded by it. And it's another just dumb.

• 35:28Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  Expense, like.

• 35:32Caleb Hammer?

  I don't even know if you guys, if you guys are aligned in this, I don't even know if you're aligned in this business.

• 35:37Speaker 04

  Well, I want us to be making more, like, it's like, when I look at $90,000 coming into the business, and then I look at our actual income and what we bring home, it's like, we're not bringing in home enough of that chunk, right?

• 35:49Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, which means it might not be a business that we do, especially together.

• 35:54Speaker 04

  Well, all of our shows are like duos and together, like, that is actually our big ticket item, you know, like, that is the best. But that's how it becomes survive, that's how the business became survivable in the first place is hiring all these other people, having a team, all that.

• 36:10Caleb Hammer?

  How much of the revenue comes from the team operated stuff versus you guys? Just you guys?

• 36:14Speaker 04

  I think it's 60, 40 right now, like 60% of.

• 36:17Caleb Hammer?

  What you guys do.

• 36:18Speaker 04

  Exactly, exactly, exactly. Yes.

• 36:20Caleb Hammer?

  You disagree?

• 36:21Speaker 03

  I don't, I don't think it's good for our bodies. I don't think it's good for our relationship with the art. To be doing the, like, to have.

• 36:29Speaker 05

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  Same act, that you do the same act every time you go to these 10 shows a week.

• 37:02Caleb Hammer?

  So you'll get hurt?

• 37:03Speaker 03

  Like, well, not just get hurt, like, I'm scared of that. It's the, I don't want to rely on something where if I am hurt, I can't do it. And that's why I want to do a booking agency. I didn't get into performing because I love being in front of everybody and I want their attention. I got into performing because a lot of people around me asked me to do shows with them, asked me to help them get a fire permit because they didn't know necessarily how.

• 37:25Caleb Hammer?

  Do you guys even agree with how much you're paying these people?

• 37:29Speaker 04

  Most of the time, most of the time.

• 37:31Caleb Hammer?

  I, there's, yeah, there's, there's a, like-

• 37:34Speaker 04

  But there's definitely tension there, too. It's like, it's, even if I agree with the amount he's paying someone, it's like, who is he paying, right? It's like, who are we hiring for what spot? And that's just like a whole nother thing because at the end of the day, like, all of these people we're hiring are, are friends to some extent. And so there's so much drama and politics with like, oh, I don't want to hire this person because they can't work with this person. And it's like, oh, like, you want to hire this person? But I'm like, actually, they're really not that good at that. And so I'm a little shady in that way. Um, but I'm just, we just, I want to put like the right people in the right spots. And also make enough money.

• 38:16Speaker 04

  You look like you're gonna say something.

• 38:22Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know, guys. I mean, I'm being told you don't even fucking show up to that part-time job either sometimes.

• 38:29Speaker 04

  I am. I, well, I-

• 38:31Caleb Hammer?

  It's like, I just-

• 38:31Speaker 04

  That's actually-

• 38:32Caleb Hammer?

  You might just need to go do your own fucking thing.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  That's on me more, sorry. Uh, he does more of the day job than I do. Cause I was cleaning the dance studio in exchange for dance passes.

• 38:45Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, that pays the bills.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  It, yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 03

  I, I, I feel like I spend a lot of time-

• 38:51Caleb Hammer?

  Let's jump into the money, guys.

• 38:52Speaker 03

  Just, just hoping to make you happy enough to become financially responsible.

• 38:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's not, I don't think that's gonna work. They ask you how you are, you just have to say that you're fine when you're not really fine. But no, I've been taking a lot of opportunities to just, like, expand ourselves as artists. Because again, I'm team, like, let's make more money. I'm team, like, the two of us taking home more of the business money.

• 39:18Caleb Hammer?

  Which I'm not opposed to, but-

• 39:19Speaker 04

  But that takes a lot of artistic work. That takes time. That takes-

• 39:22Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, it's weird. A business that you get paid from takes work.

• 39:26Speaker 04

  Oh gee, that's not what I meant. Okay.

• 39:28Caleb Hammer?

  Go work for someone else if you want to put in less work.

• 39:30Speaker 04

  That's not what I, that's not what I'm trying to do. I'm saying it's artistic work. It's not going to pay for itself right of mur. It's not gonna pay for itself right away because there's all these hours that I do programming before the actual gig.

• 39:43Caleb Hammer?

  Because you have all this debt hanging over your head. Cause you've allowed to live your lifestyle higher than you actually can because you are prioritizing your lifestyle over your business.

• 39:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, I didn't say I was good at finances. That's why I'm here.

• 39:57Caleb Hammer?

  That's why I'm here.

• 39:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, okay.

• 40:00Speaker 03

  Unofficial bingo card. That's why I'm here. It's in free space.

• 40:04Speaker 04

  I got flipped off. Wow. Oh.

• 40:06Speaker 03

  I, I feel like, uh, it is, it is definitely like a significant issue.

• 40:12Caleb Hammer?

  On three, two, one, go. I want you guys at the exact same time to give me your household financial score. Okay? Zero to 10, so you're being the worst, 10 being the best. Three, two, one, three.

• 40:23Speaker 04

  0.5.

• 40:24Caleb Hammer?

  Why the f**k do you think you're...

• 40:25Speaker 04

  You're what?

• 40:26Speaker 03

  Cause I want it to be really bad. Cause I'm shooting for a three.

• 40:30Speaker 04

  You're shooting for a three.

• 40:32Speaker 03

  And if I tell myself it's a three, that's what it'll be.

• 40:33Speaker 04

  At least I'm realistic.

• 40:35Speaker 03

  No.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  Okay. Yeah.

• 40:39Speaker 04

  I'd like it to be a three. That's great, but it's not right now.

• 40:42Speaker 03

  Targets, man.

• 40:46Speaker 03

  What should I shoot for?

• 40:48Caleb Hammer?

  What should you shoot for?

• 40:49Speaker 04

  Shoot 10.

• 40:49Caleb Hammer?

  I want you to self-acknowledge where you are.

• 40:53Speaker 04

  Not where we want to be.

• 40:54Caleb Hammer?

  So you can assess your situation, so you can make a plan to get where you want to go.

• 41:00Speaker 03

  I think as soon as we have an actual reinvestment budget, that'll be something to...

• 41:06Caleb Hammer?

  You how? If you have all this debt, your reinvestment budget is paid off your debt.

• 41:11Speaker 03

  Our...

• 41:11Caleb Hammer?

  If you want your Hammer Financial Score, if you want to see where you are in the world of finances, take the assessment at CalebHammer.com or click the link in the description below. And also make sure you download the Simpler Budget app. They get the premium version forever. But for those who sign up for the annual premium version, I will send you our cookbook that we made, that I will sign directly to your doorstep and our notebook as well. So make sure you do that. Guys, fucking download this. If you don't download this, by the time you leave, I'm gonna fucking murder you.

• 41:40Speaker 04

  We did. It's so jarring to see that, you know, it's like, it told me that I spent $14,000 last month, which is crazy.

• 41:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

• 41:49Speaker 04

  Which is crazy. No, that's the money that's going to other performers. That's why it's so weird to look at.

• 41:53Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, there's still money going out.

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Yeah, well...

• 41:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 41:56Speaker 04

  Okay, you got me there. Okay, yeah.

• 41:58Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, I know. I, I, I... It's money. You guys just like

• 42:03Speaker 03

  Half of our debt, half of our debt, right now especially, is reinvestment.

• 42:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 03

  It is irrational.

• 42:11Caleb Hammer?

  What do you consider reinvestment? I want to talk about these numbers. What do you consider reinvestment?

• 42:16Speaker 04

  It's, it's the props, it's the costuming, it's the...

• 42:19Caleb Hammer?

  And why are we getting fresh stuff every single time? Because you should have leftovers.

• 42:22Speaker 04

  Why not?

• 42:22Speaker 03

  The biggest thing that people want is like the thing for their event.

• 42:26Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  So, yeah, you can have the staples, like 4th of July is clearly, right, Uncle Sam on stilts. Like, it's, it's easy to come up with some stuff, but at the same time, like...

• 42:36Caleb Hammer?

  That's what I want to see. Well, alright, City Double Cash, we're at $973.53. I mean, it was paid off, and then you purchased it all the way up, and you have fees, $100, or no, $1.24. $35 minimum monthly payment. I'm confused. Why are we purchasing so much on this card? A card that was paid off. What are we doing?

• 42:57Speaker 04

  So, we do the jelly.

• 42:59Speaker 03

  No, no.

• 43:00Caleb Hammer?

  They're saying it's $9 for being maxed out now.

• 43:02Speaker 03

  It is in fact that.

• 43:03Caleb Hammer?

  Are you fucking kidding me? So it's at like, what?

• 43:05Speaker 04

  The calculator went down.

• 43:06Caleb Hammer?

  It's at $4,000, what is it, $4,000, $4,491?

• 43:14Speaker 04

  That sounds right.

• 43:15Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 43:16Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, why, guys?

• 43:18Speaker 03

  So, here's, here's the, here's the worst possible answer. Uh, we've noticed that a lot of people survive with a lot more debt than we have.

• 43:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  I'm almost like...

• 43:27Speaker 04

  I started watching your show.

• 43:28Caleb Hammer?

  What's the new minimum monthly payment on this, you guys?

• 43:32Speaker 04

  Well, it usually gets paid off...

• 43:33Speaker 03

  I just pay it every two, every two weeks.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, it usually gets paid off every month, um, but...

• 43:38Speaker 03

  It'll be $1,500.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  Yeah, it'll be a $1,500 payment this month.

• 43:43Speaker 03

  Twice.

• 43:43Speaker 04

  Twice. Which will not happen, because we don't have it.

• 43:48Speaker 03

  Because we don't have that. There's no way.

• 43:50Speaker 04

  But, it's on the credit card, so that once this big gig happens in a couple of months, then like, yeah, we've got a little bit of interest on it, but we've also got the things in our possession to actually use for those shows. So we're trying, we tried to be smart.

• 44:04Caleb Hammer?

  What's the minimum monthly payment?

• 44:07Speaker 04

  Hmm, I would guess like $300?

• 44:11Caleb Hammer?

  Because who knows if you can actually make that payment? We'll see. You have to line things up. What are we even purchasing?

• 44:18Speaker 03

  Plan ahead.

• 44:18Caleb Hammer?

  Foreign transaction fee, circus space...

• 44:22Caleb Hammer?

  Pyroterra Light Toys, Amazon, Stone Harbor Restaurant.

• 44:29Speaker 04

  That was a fun gig. That was a fun gig.

• 44:31Caleb Hammer?

  The restaurant?

• 44:32Speaker 04

  Well, that was post-gig, but yes, we got to go out with all of the performer friends.

• 44:36Caleb Hammer?

  Hey, we spent the money we don't have.

• 44:41Speaker 04

  Business expense.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  Or, I think it's dumber. It's dumber than that. We're finally coming up with enough money to do this stuff, and then we're still spending it all on, like, if I get the client to pay for the meal, it feels great.

• 44:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  But then, because I did that, it's easier to be like, oh, we'll just buy the next big thing. And it's gonna be especially that Pyroterra group.

• 45:03Caleb Hammer?

  And then one quarter all the way up to almost 4,500 maxed out.

• 45:07Speaker 04

  Okay, so we are doing these LED shows. They're a lot more intense technically. And so we needed a new laptop because one of our pieces of equipment broke, so then we needed a laptop to run the show, so we went to Best Buy the day of the gig.

• 45:21Caleb Hammer?

  So you didn't have a fucking laptop?

• 45:24Speaker 04

  Not a good enough one to run the software.

• 45:26Caleb Hammer?

  Turn it after the gig then.

• 45:27Speaker 04

  Well, it's actually very helpful for the business to run these shows, so we're gonna probably keep it.

• 45:33Caleb Hammer?

  You guys are the small businesses that never take off. Because you will justify everything you want as a business expense forever. Forever.

• 45:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 45:44Caleb Hammer?

  And luckily, I have a little part of that in me. We've just luckily ran a pretty successful business, so I can budget it in. But, listen, as someone that, like, I'm there with you, so I get it. You will never take off. You will never take off if you just consider this reinvestment into the business forever instead of taking care of this shit that matters, that lowers the risk, that has that one-year emergency fund. Guys, you'll never get there. Never. Because you will justify everything you want forever as reinvestment into the business.

• 46:18Caleb Hammer?

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• 47:03Caleb Hammer?

  not just vibe with the numbers. Honestly, if I was running a business at scale, this is what I'd be using to stop flying blind. So whether your company is making millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you handle the now and prep for what's next. And speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com/hammer. The guide is free to you at netsuite.com/hammer. Again, that is netsuite.com/hammer. Thanks to NetSuite for sponsoring the video. Let's get back to it.

• 47:29Speaker 04

  It feels so good to do it, but yeah.

• 47:34Caleb Hammer?

  Great. Yeah, why would we want a successful business?

• 47:38Speaker 04

  Well, I need to learn how to actually use money properly instead of just feeling like I have money when we have a good gig come up.

• 47:45Speaker 03

  I feel like there's a, like the timeline is relevant. Like every time that we've kind of had an opportunity for things to get better,

• 47:58Speaker 03

  things have also gotten worse. So moving to Madison was really good for us in terms of the fact that we had more people to work with.

• 48:07Speaker 04

  But then we had to rebrand the business. It was a whole thing, which costs more money. We're now working with different artists. So then that was like a whole changeover and just like a dip in income.

• 48:18Speaker 03

  And our car broke down.

• 48:19Speaker 04

  And then the car broke down.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  We had to replace the car and get a new car loan.

• 48:22Caleb Hammer?

  How many performances are there a month?

• 48:24Speaker 04

  Uh, between, between two and like six.

• 48:29Caleb Hammer?

  No, two and six. And you spend this much money in a month? So your cost per performance is like $10,000? Why is working more aside of it if we're only working six days a month? Max.

• 48:46Caleb Hammer?

  Why would we possibly have that? If you're only working a week, a week of the month? What a joke. This isn't an entrepreneurial situation. This is a lazy position.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  Oh, so much work goes into each one of those gigs, though.

• 49:05Caleb Hammer?

  How many hours?

• 49:06Speaker 04

  Depends on how much.

• 49:07Caleb Hammer?

  How many hours on average?

• 49:10Speaker 03

  Too damn many.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  Too damn many.

• 49:12Speaker 03

  It's part of the problem is like.

• 49:14Caleb Hammer?

  Too damn many in terms of what you want to do or what is necessary.

• 49:18Speaker 04

  I feel like I'm never clocked out. Like, I feel like I'm never clocked out.

• 49:21Caleb Hammer?

  That is a world of a business over. But if you can write down everything you do that goes into this and you stack them up, what do you categorize them as must do's versus maybe I didn't need to do that?

• 49:36Speaker 03

  That makes way more sense in hindsight, I gotta tell you.

• 49:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's actually a great idea.

• 49:40Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, my gosh, I don't think you guys are ready to run a business. Even though you're six years into this somehow.

• 49:45Speaker 04

  Doing it or doing it.

• 49:47Caleb Hammer?

  Kind of. It's. Yeah, so hobby. It's happening.

• 49:52Speaker 04

  It's not a hobby, we're making a profit.

• 49:54Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  We didn't even have to run away.

• 49:56Caleb Hammer?

  On a hobby, you barely make a nut. You need a roommate to survive. You guys are interesting creatures with your mannerisms and stuff. You both have the same thing. You both do the same sound effects and things.

• 50:10Speaker 03

  There's a lot of, there's a lot of carryover on our, on our, on our habits for sure. The osmosis, behavioral osmosis. So I, I feel like that credit card, it's worth mentioning. You did get yet another prop for a gig that hasn't happened yet. I think that's one of the biggest issues. These gigs that haven't happened yet, where the money's not here yet, where anything could go wrong.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, it was, it seemed like a really good excuse to get these custom LED feather fans because burlesque and, you know, we, we do some burlesque shows. So I want to start doing that, too. And so these custom LED feather fans made a lot of sense in that context. But then we haven't used them yet.

• 50:56Speaker 03

  But the whole point, like the whole, like with as often as you take issue with me hiring other people, you've now, you've now gotten your own feather fans and not had them pay for themselves at all.

• 51:10Speaker 04

  Well.

• 51:11Caleb Hammer?

  What?

• 51:11Speaker 04

  They're gonna pay for themselves. They're gonna pay for themselves. Just they haven't yet.

• 51:16Caleb Hammer?

  Oh my gosh, you guys are so not together. Do you guys see a marriage counselor? Do you see a business counselor? I don't know if that exists. What are you gonna do?

• 51:27Speaker 04

  He wants to see both. I am a little annoyed at the marriage counseling situation, but.

• 51:33Caleb Hammer?

  What?

• 51:33Speaker 04

  Well, the marriage counselors we had were just really terrible and so.

• 51:37Caleb Hammer?

  Well, you then try different.

• 51:38Speaker 04

  Well, that's.

• 51:39Caleb Hammer?

  We'll give you three sessions through Sondermine. So what our audience uses is what I use.

• 51:43Speaker 04

  Thanks.

• 51:44Caleb Hammer?

  But for fuck's sake, at least it's free.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:47Caleb Hammer?

  Test it. You have to test and move on.

• 51:48Speaker 04

  That's it. There's a lot of trial and error that is just.

• 51:51Caleb Hammer?

  Then try!

• 51:52Speaker 04

  Huh, yeah, yeah. Okay, I will. But it just, up until now, it's uh, it's just been really difficult to actually make that appointment. Because I have very little faith that they're gonna do anything.

• 52:05Caleb Hammer?

  And a lot of things, you're lazy unless you actively want to do it. If there are things, I can read this from a mile away. If there are things you do not want to do, you don't do it. You justify the things you do in the business because there's the thing, you pick the things you want to do. The things that excite you.

• 52:20Speaker 03

  Like, is there anything else that's excited you in recent history that maybe we shouldn't have gotten? And ended up having to sell because we shouldn't have gotten it in the first?

• 52:28Caleb Hammer?

  Fucking what?

• 52:30Speaker 04

  Fucking aerial rig, fine.

• 52:32Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, they, I saw you spent like a ton on it.

• 52:35Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, I did aerials for, you know, um, six months or something.

• 52:41Caleb Hammer?

  Congratulations. Do you make money off of it now?

• 52:43Speaker 04

  Uh, no, we hire aerialists to do that now.

• 52:45Caleb Hammer?

  I'm gonna fucking just like murder someone. What are you, this is so stupid.

• 52:49Speaker 04

  Well, I sold the rig.

• 52:50Caleb Hammer?

  This is fun to you. This is just fun to you. That's all, this is not a business to you.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  Can't business be fun and a business?

• 52:57Caleb Hammer?

  But you don't treat this as a business. You only treat it as fun.

• 53:00Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 53:02Caleb Hammer?

  This is not gonna last.

• 53:03Speaker 04

  Well.

• 53:04Caleb Hammer?

  This is not gonna last!

• 53:06Speaker 04

  I really want it to last. I really wanna change.

• 53:09Caleb Hammer?

  How much you think you've spent just in the last year on props and?

• 53:12Speaker 04

  Oh, oh, that's a good question. The feather fans were 500, the LED suits are 2,500, the boogang are 900 each. No, sorry, 700 each.

• 53:25Caleb Hammer?

  Well, that's better.

• 53:26Speaker 04

  That's better. Uh, I'm gonna say like.

• 53:29Caleb Hammer?

  3,500 on the aerial ring, fuck's sake.

• 53:32Speaker 04

  Maybe 7,000 this past year?

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Maybe more like 10.

• 53:36Speaker 04

  Maybe.

• 53:37Speaker 03

  Maybe, maybe it's not maybe because I made a little chart of exactly this.

• 53:41Speaker 04

  You did it. Oh, wow!

• 53:43Caleb Hammer?

  Why doesn't she know? If she's your co-business head in this, why doesn't she know?

• 53:49Speaker 03

  Because she's willing to sit down and look at everything that I've made about nine out of 10 times.

• 53:55Speaker 04

  Well, it's not always a good time.

• 53:57Speaker 03

  It's not.

• 53:58Caleb Hammer?

  I'm gonna ask you an inappropriate question, an inappropriate question.

• 54:02Speaker 04

  Here we go, here we go.

• 54:03Caleb Hammer?

  When I hit on people, I'm known for asking specifically like, okay, cool.

• 54:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 54:10Caleb Hammer?

  So I can learn. I'll ask a sexual question, because why not? You guys are obsessed with the business together, you guys fight, you guys do all this.

• 54:21Caleb Hammer?

  Are you guys still intimate?

• 54:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, we are.

• 54:24Speaker 03

  That's usually the easy part.

• 54:25Speaker 04

  That's the easy part.

• 54:26Speaker 03

  Well, all the fighting can help.

• 54:28Caleb Hammer?

  I was expecting that. No, maybe you guys don't share that together anymore. Because maybe you guys don't share life together, because you're just gonna just, and then you guys just work together and all this stuff.

• 54:39Speaker 04

  It's, yeah, it's enough to kill my libido sometimes. Um, but it hasn't gone away, like it hasn't been problematic. So that's been nice.

• 54:50Caleb Hammer?

  Well, I mean, that's a good thing.

• 54:52Speaker 04

  The easy part, you know, I'm way better at sexy stuff than money stuff, so.

• 54:57Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 54:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, can do that.

• 55:00Caleb Hammer?

  Uh, some UW credit.

• 55:03Speaker 04

  Oh, that's where our cash goes. That's what makes it scary, is that we deposit it.

• 55:11Speaker 04

  So we must be claiming it if we deposit it. I don't really, I don't, I obviously don't understand taxes.

• 55:17Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but I think we're talking about the car loan on this.

• 55:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, the car loan comes out of the UW credit union.

• 55:23Caleb Hammer?

  7% interest, basically rounded. It's not the worst, but it's definitely not good. You're not competing with the market.

• 55:28Speaker 04

  I thought it was like five something, the car loan? Is the car loan seven?

• 55:32Caleb Hammer?

  No.

• 55:33Speaker 04

  Oh, well.

• 55:35Caleb Hammer?

  But even still, like, if I'm buying like, just whatever, I'm getting like 8% a year on average, up years down years combined. So with the depreciation and everything, you're not, like, keeping up. What's the car?

• 55:45Speaker 04

  It's a 2013 Toyota RAV4.

• 55:50Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 55:54Speaker 04

  I love it. I love it so much. It's the best little SUV that I ever did drive.

• 56:02Caleb Hammer?

  Cool. You owe

• 56:04Speaker 04

  Cool.

• 56:05Caleb Hammer?

  You owe $8,824.60.

• 56:08Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 56:09Caleb Hammer?

  The minimum monthly payment of 186. Is this term long?

• 56:12Speaker 04

  I feel like it is. I feel like I want to pay off the car sooner.

• 56:15Caleb Hammer?

  With that small, yeah, good luck.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  Well.

• 56:17Caleb Hammer?

  Let me look at the lifestyle you guys live in.

• 56:19Speaker 04

  I want to pay off the car sooner because last time.

• 56:21Caleb Hammer?

  I do, but you then you don't.

• 56:23Speaker 04

  Well, not yet, but last time.

• 56:26Caleb Hammer?

  It being worth maybe a thousand, 2,000 dollars under what you owe on it. So you're underwater.

• 56:32Speaker 04

  Yes, which sounds just like the underwaterness we had with the Ford, which I will never drive another Ford again. Um, because that thing broke down on us over the course of six months, so many times, leaving us stranded. And

• 56:46Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, we scrapped it for like $400.

• 56:49Caleb Hammer?

  When did you get this car?

• 56:51Speaker 04

  August or September. We got the Toyota.

• 56:56Caleb Hammer?

  So I make it, yeah, this.

• 56:57Speaker 04

  Yeah, but we had to, we had to like scrap.

• 57:00Speaker 05

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• 57:29Speaker 04

  Pay off the Ford. Yeah, I think we paid like 13,000 for it.

• 57:35Caleb Hammer?

  Mileage and condition in this car?

• 57:36Speaker 04

  It's a pretty good condition. Uh, it's got 140,000 miles on it. Which is like decent for a RAV4. They can go usually like 300,000 if you take care of it.

• 57:47Caleb Hammer?

  If you take care of it.

• 57:47Speaker 04

  Which we do.

• 57:48Caleb Hammer?

  But I hope the person did before you.

• 57:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, actually it was driven down south, so there's not a lot of rust and stuff, which is great for us in the Midwest.

• 57:58Speaker 04

  It was very nice. I'm very happy with this Toyota. I just, that Ford really just traumatized me.

• 58:03Caleb Hammer?

  I don't care.

• 58:04Speaker 04

  Great.

• 58:06Speaker 03

  That is a solid one.

• 58:07Speaker 04

  Well, and it's your fault we needed an SUV anyway. I wanted a car.

• 58:11Speaker 03

  We need an SUV. There's no question about that.

• 58:14Speaker 04

  Well, that's debatable, but like, I'm glad we have the SUV, but we could have gotten like a Honda Civic or something.

• 58:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, now that we don't have an aerial rig, we don't need a SUV. You're right.

• 58:27Speaker 04

  But here we are with a Toyota, and it's great, but it could have been cheaper.

• 58:32Speaker 03

  I'm, I'm feeling like it's about spending. It's always gonna come back to spending and we haven't really touched on just how much spending there actually is. The more that we kind of prep for this show, the more I'm actually finding more, and it's not a surprise. It's a matter of thinking from choice to choice that it's fine. Letting me think that it's fine, not knowing enough to, to feel like maybe this isn't fine. And like, it's not okay to just keep like, yeah, it's not reinvesting. I admit it. Like, so what are we gonna do different?

• 59:07Speaker 04

  Oh, I don't know. I don't know. Cause I wanna just keep doing what we're doing, but it's not smart.

• 59:15Caleb Hammer?

  That's not, that's not, that's, that's a sh** answer.

• 59:21Speaker 04

  I-

• 59:22Caleb Hammer?

  Work with him!

• 59:23Speaker 04

  I want to get a, a solid day job after this three-month gig is over.

• 59:29Caleb Hammer?

  So you're leaving the business?

• 59:30Speaker 04

  No, I'm gonna do a day gig that allows me to keep doing the business. Usually we don't have a gig that is like every day for three months.

• 59:39Caleb Hammer?

  What business can you work at that's gonna allow you to take that much time off constantly randomly?

• 59:44Speaker 04

  I mean, the gig that we're doing right now with the real estate signs is so flexible.

• 59:48Caleb Hammer?

  You're not even paying taxes. It's all under the table dumb stuff.

• 59:51Speaker 04

  We can get on payroll for that.

• 59:52Speaker 03

  We could.

• 59:53Caleb Hammer?

  Then why aren't you?

• 59:54Speaker 03

  This is, this is-

• 59:55Speaker 04

  Duh!

• 59:56Speaker 03

  How irresponsible are we being is what we need to know. All we know is, it's bad. And there's like red flags left and right. The more that we dig-

• 1:00:07Caleb Hammer?

  Why?

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  And I'm over it.

• 1:00:08Caleb Hammer?

  Why?

• 1:00:08Speaker 03

  At this point, like-

• 1:00:12Speaker 03

  It's, it's like, stress is definitely the biggest reason that I've gotten to be so bad with vaping. I'm sitting in the office, working too hard, kinda wasting my life away that way.

• 1:00:23Caleb Hammer?

  Everyone on this show, I swear, this is an epidemic.

• 1:00:26Speaker 03

  I, I am.

• 1:00:26Caleb Hammer?

  Do you vape, both?

• 1:00:28Speaker 04

  Do I vape? I do vape, yes I do.

• 1:00:31Caleb Hammer?

  Do you both vape?

• 1:00:32Speaker 03

  We both vape too.

• 1:00:34Caleb Hammer?

  For fuck's sake, how much a month? How much does it cost for both of your lungs to be destroyed? You know it's aerosols, right? You know it's not vapor, it's aerosols? It's the same stuff in like...

• 1:00:43Speaker 04

  It's bad for you, no matter what you're putting in your lungs, but I would say...

• 1:00:47Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but it's not just water vapors, it's the same as aerosols.

• 1:00:50Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's not cigarettes.

• 1:00:52Caleb Hammer?

  It's not cigarettes, it is technically better, doesn't mean it's good.

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  As much as we fight now.

• 1:00:56Caleb Hammer?

  How much do you guys spend on vapes?

• 1:00:59Speaker 04

  A hundred dollars a month, unconfidently. Well, if he loses a vape, if he loses a vape, which is often, because he's super clumsy.

• 1:01:10Caleb Hammer?

  What are the red flags?

• 1:01:12Speaker 03

  Sixty bucks each, easy, no doubt.

• 1:01:15Speaker 04

  Uh, the amount of subscriptions we have for the business that is not making enough money, how about that?

• 1:01:21Speaker 04

  We don't need everything to be automated, and for Google Workspace and all these other things.

• 1:01:25Speaker 03

  The only way that I can imagine scaling this business is by doing things like automating the work. If there was more work coming in, we'd be totally swamped and fall behind and let people down and not get these gigs in the first place.

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:01:40Speaker 03

  And it just feels like, yes, it's too expensive. I'm finally finding a way to make it work. I can do the work I need to do and have a day job, but I can't have enough of a day job to pull enough in. It's like, I admit, it's like exhaustion. It's not just like overspending and the lack of money, it's, it's just feeling so beaten down trying to make it work. Like, because everything tells me it should. Everything that I can see from year to year says, this works.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 03

  Now, stop having, making lifestyle choices that prevent it from working. That's, that's both of us.

• 1:02:18Caleb Hammer?

  What do you mean?

• 1:02:21Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, vaping is a good example. Like, $1,200 a year is a pretty significant chunk of our income, but we're both guilty of that.

• 1:02:29Speaker 03

  I think the frequency with which it's not just a purchase that we're saying to ourselves, like, how does this make us more money? It's a purchase of a kit. It's a purchase of a whole setup, whether that's a sewing machine and various types of fabrics and then totes to keep the fabrics in. And then you need a space like a storage unit because you don't have enough space at home to keep everything. Like, hobby hopping is like, it's how the aerial rig happened in the first place. It's how, like, the reinvestment is just that. It's still happening.

• 1:02:59Caleb Hammer?

  How are you guys gonna do this together?

• 1:03:02Speaker 04

  Well, it's all those things that I feel like I'm working on the business with. Like, I wanna make some costume stuff. I wanna, you know, like, make it work and not have to pay so much for costuming. So then I'll get the sewing machine and the whole kit and the fabric. And then, like, that doesn't actually work because I just pay more money for all the bullshit. And then, I just, sometimes I'm justifying it for the business. Sometimes it is literally just me being interested in something. Like, I learned how to tattoo, which was fun. I gave my roommate a tattoo for her birthday.

• 1:03:33Caleb Hammer?

  Why don't you focus on something you can, you have that to pay off. What? Are you guys ever gonna have a kid?

• 1:03:38Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:03:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:03:40Speaker 04

  Sterile.

• 1:03:40Caleb Hammer?

  You ever wanna? Well, which one?

• 1:03:43Speaker 04

  This one.

• 1:03:44Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but you can still have a kid if you want to.

• 1:03:46Speaker 04

  Well, yeah.

• 1:03:46Caleb Hammer?

  They just gotta get all up in there.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  I'm not gonna have it on accident.

• 1:03:49Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, you don't want to.

• 1:03:50Speaker 03

  I have no intention to have it on.

• 1:03:51Caleb Hammer?

  No intention, okay, cool. Okay, so that is a weight off. But what about a house? Because you can't hobby hop if we have financial goals. If you're holding back hobby hopping, justifying every single hobby hop by putting it in the business and it's a write-off, like, we're never gonna get anywhere.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  Right. Well, with tattooing, I legitimately...

• 1:04:10Caleb Hammer?

  You have taxes for last year that you can't even pay off.

• 1:04:14Speaker 04

  So you're happy happy. That's why I want like a career that is not the perform like the performing can move a little to the side for me and then I want a career that is something else like but tattooing just seems like a whole nother artistic endeavor. So I don't know if I want to do that. And nursing is like out the window because I'm in a different country. So I can't use my nursing license here. And it's just hard to find like something that works on the side without letting go of the business. Like you said, it's hard to get that like thing that is flexible enough so that I can actually focus on gigs.

• 1:04:47Caleb Hammer?

  You guys even have anything to look forward to on the future?

• 1:04:50Speaker 04

  Well, okay, so no kids. I'm pretty like anti kids and I've also been on birth control for a decade and like that's not exactly a fun experience trying to trial and error a bunch of different hormones in your body. So it's like kind of his turn for a little bit of birth control. That's kind of how that.

• 1:05:09Speaker 03

  I mean, that's the way I look at it.

• 1:05:11Caleb Hammer?

  What, did you make him get a vasectomy?

• 1:05:13Speaker 04

  I didn't force him to get a vasectomy.

• 1:05:15Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:05:15Speaker 04

  You can't do that.

• 1:05:16Speaker 03

  I don't think there's even any pressure for me to get a vasectomy. I don't want to have an accidental kid because it bothers me so much how often that happens and like.

• 1:05:25Speaker 04

  I was an accident with how I turned out.

• 1:05:27Speaker 03

  I just feel like the what makes it a fight is that I didn't freeze my sperm.

• 1:05:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:37Speaker 03

  And now we're having a lot of like buyer's remorse.

• 1:05:39Speaker 04

  My mom's very upset about that. My mom was very upset to hear that he got a vasectomy.

• 1:05:45Speaker 03

  And at the same time, that's my that's my note. Like honestly, I really want vasectomies to be a way more at least well considered thought. Like, don't be it's like going to the dentist for your balls, you guys. Just chill.

• 1:05:59Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but if you want to get reconnected, it's like a 75% success rate. So.

• 1:06:03Speaker 04

  But adoption's a thing.

• 1:06:05Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but if you want to have your own biological kid, like the percentage isn't there.

• 1:06:09Speaker 03

  You're making the point in my I agree with you. This is why vasectomies should be.

• 1:06:14Speaker 04

  But my mom was adopted and she's great. So we could adopt if that was if we're even ever close to being financially ready for a kid, which we're not.

• 1:06:22Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, and you couldn't afford to adopt a kid?

• 1:06:24Speaker 03

  Mm-mm.

• 1:06:24Speaker 04

  Nope. That's why we have a cat.

• 1:06:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, we'll keep it off the table very intentionally because it would be irresponsible for everybody involved.

• 1:06:32Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, and they're telling me, apparently you have like some LED suits debt that there's no statement for?

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, I did.

• 1:06:40Caleb Hammer?

  What?

• 1:06:40Speaker 04

  I did mention that. Those were like $2,500.

• 1:06:42Caleb Hammer?

  What is that? So you owe $2,500?

• 1:06:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're, well, yes, basically.

• 1:06:48Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, what's the payment on that?

• 1:06:51Speaker 04

  Um, so that, we paid, yeah, we paid $900.

• 1:06:55Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, and you owe $25?

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  Yes, and then that'll be due by June 15th.

• 1:07:00Caleb Hammer?

  The total, the total. You can't even pay last year's taxes. And you owe $2,500 that's just about to hit? Because whenever you get large chunks of money, you can't manage it, it just goes out the door.

• 1:07:12Speaker 04

  Yeah. I just, it, mm.

• 1:07:14Caleb Hammer?

  So as many of you know, I've been a big supporter of Course Careers for a long time. I'm not just a partner, I actually own stock and I'm an investor. So why did I partner with Course Careers? Because I truly believe in what they're doing. A lot of people have questions about online certifications versus traditional college degrees. Let me be clear, I wouldn't put my name behind something unless I knew it worked. The thing is, not everyone has the time or resources to spend four years in college or take on massive student loan debt. Course Careers offers a practical, affordable way to launch a career in a high-demand field like tech sales, IT, and accounting, where companies are hiring based on the skills needed, not broad college degrees. In fact, right now, 1 in 3 companies are dropping degree requirements, and that number is only going to continue to grow.

• 1:07:59Caleb Hammer?

  I know some people think online programs are a quick fix, but that's not the case here. Course Careers takes effort and commitment, but they provide you with a streamlined, proven path. They offer up-to-date, self-paced courses, one-on-one or group coaching from people that work in the industry, and most importantly, they help you actually get hired. Just look at graduates like Namesso, who went from driving FedEx trucks to a cybersecurity job at Disney. That didn't happen by chance. He put in the work and Course Careers guided him every step of the way. And what truly sets Course Careers apart is that it's Not just about learning skills, about landing a job. Their curriculum is designed based on what employers actually need, and their network of industry coaches will guide you through the entire process,

• 1:08:42Caleb Hammer?

  from learning the skills to interviewing, resume help, and beyond. So if you're serious about starting a new career without wasting years or piling up debt, give Course Careers a try. Start with their free intro course, linked in the description to explore your options. And when you're ready, use the link in the description for $50 off the full course. Your future starts right now, and Course Careers is here to help you shape it.

• 1:09:04Speaker 04

  It felt really cool because it was a collaboration with another, yeah.

• 1:09:08Caleb Hammer?

  You can't afford this!

• 1:09:11Speaker 04

  We got 30% off because it's a collaborative thing. We're gonna help test these.

• 1:09:17Speaker 03

  This is what you do is you justify this stuff by looking at how much you're saving, which is just such a trap. Like, we know better, and you've done it before, so why aren't we like...

• 1:09:29Speaker 04

  But isn't there value to collaborating with other artists and doing that? And establishing yourself with the other artists in the community?

• 1:09:36Caleb Hammer?

  If you can afford it! You can't! Business first, around second!

• 1:09:43Speaker 04

  I don't know where the line is!

• 1:09:45Caleb Hammer?

  The line is, can you afford it? No, you can't! You have debt! You can't even pay last year's taxes!

• 1:09:53Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, you gotta write that down. How much was the IRS debt again?

• 1:09:57Speaker 04

  Last year's or this year's?

• 1:09:58Speaker 03

  Three grand.

• 1:10:00Caleb Hammer?

  What, do you owe from the previous year?

• 1:10:01Speaker 04

  We're still paying off the previous year.

• 1:10:06Speaker 04

  Oh my Celsius! I think we have not much. We don't have much left on it. It's like, I'd have to look, but maybe like 500 left? It was like 2,500 and then we paid it down.

• 1:10:19Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, okay, 500 left and then the last year, how much?

• 1:10:22Speaker 03

  It's 1,500 from last year.

• 1:10:25Speaker 04

  Okay, well this year we owe three grand.

• 1:10:27Speaker 03

  And it's three grand from this year.

• 1:10:28Caleb Hammer?

  When you say this year, you mean last year.

• 1:10:30Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:10:31Speaker 03

  Ah, yeah.

• 1:10:32Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, so how much is there in total?

• 1:10:33Speaker 04

  Talking about taxes.

• 1:10:35Caleb Hammer?

  What's our total minimum monthly payments?

• 1:10:39Speaker 04

  That just got, I'm not sure.

• 1:10:41Speaker 03

  Because of the new tax season, I need to get a new tax payment plan set up.

• 1:10:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:45Caleb Hammer?

  So we don't even know.

• 1:10:46Speaker 04

  It's not figured out yet, yeah.

• 1:10:48Caleb Hammer?

  For fuck's sake, dude.

• 1:10:50Caleb Hammer?

  For fuck's sake. Listen, maybe you're just, I don't know, I don't know. I'll get you an accounting certification for your business so you don't f- this up in course careers, but you gotta stop. You gotta learn how to do [__], dude. This is so [__] stupid.

• 1:11:04Speaker 04

  The gigs that we do are so good that it's so promising. It's so hard to like, think about stopping.

• 1:11:10Caleb Hammer?

  But you have a gig, you spend everything to do it, walk away with nothing, and then you're [__].

• 1:11:16Speaker 04

  We just need more work.

• 1:11:17Caleb Hammer?

  Cause you use a gig as a justification to blow money on things you want.

• 1:11:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, but we just need more work. We just need more work.

• 1:11:25Caleb Hammer?

  Yes!

• 1:11:27Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:11:28Caleb Hammer?

  For fuck's sake, dude.

• 1:11:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:11:32Speaker 03

  And...

• 1:11:34Speaker 03

  If we want to increase revenue, we need to do marketing.

• 1:11:38Speaker 04

  Yup.

• 1:11:38Speaker 03

  Something you've...

• 1:11:39Caleb Hammer?

  What the [__] marketing are you gonna do?

• 1:11:41Speaker 03

  It's another thing, it's another...

• 1:11:42Caleb Hammer?

  No, what's your marketing strategy? Define it.

• 1:11:45Speaker 04

  Well, we don't have one because we don't have a marketing budget yet.

• 1:11:47Caleb Hammer?

  What? You don't need a budget to have a [__] strategy!

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  True, okay.

• 1:11:51Caleb Hammer?

  Oh guys, you do business the opposite way. Oh, for [__] sake, what marketing can you do?

• 1:11:57Speaker 04

  Well, social media's a good start, but we're not...

• 1:11:59Caleb Hammer?

  What do you do on social media?

• 1:12:01Speaker 04

  I mean, right now, it's just our Facebook page, our, and our Instagram.

• 1:12:04Caleb Hammer?

  What do you do on your Facebook page and Instagram? What's your marketing there?

• 1:12:08Speaker 04

  It's, it's really just like, talking about upcoming gigs.

• 1:12:12Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, you're a hobbyist, you're a hobbyist, you're a hobbyist. You're not a business, you're a hobby. You're not a business, you're a hobby.

• 1:12:17Speaker 03

  You, you studied marketing and didn't use that.

• 1:12:20Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, for [__] sake.

• 1:12:21Speaker 04

  I didn't, I didn't study marketing, I did like, one...

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  It was a certificate, that's the point.

• 1:12:25Speaker 04

  Online thing.

• 1:12:26Speaker 03

  You were like, ready to do something for us, you took...

• 1:12:29Speaker 05

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• 1:12:58Caleb Hammer?

  Class and then didn't take the class, didn't finish it, didn't apply anything, and it can't get you in the office to work on these things.

• 1:13:06Speaker 04

  I did apply some of it, it just didn't last.

• 1:13:08Caleb Hammer?

  You're good at everything I need you to do. You're so good at everything you need to do.

• 1:13:13Speaker 04

  There's so many things to do. There's so many things to do.

• 1:13:15Caleb Hammer?

  Strategize.

• 1:13:16Speaker 04

  Yeah. I really just need some time management.

• 1:13:19Caleb Hammer?

  No. No, fuck you. You need to not justify every purchase you do.

• 1:13:24Speaker 04

  That too.

• 1:13:26Caleb Hammer?

  Time management.

• 1:13:27Speaker 04

  Well, time management because it's like, okay, am I gonna program for this gig? Am I gonna get the burlesque act ready? Like, am I gonna?

• 1:13:34Caleb Hammer?

  What is this $10,000 Ontario?

• 1:13:37Speaker 04

  That's my student loan. That's my student loan.

• 1:13:39Caleb Hammer?

  It's like 6%.

• 1:13:41Speaker 04

  Which, the 6% only applies to like half of it or something. I think the one... The other half of the loan is like 0%. It's like the, it's the Canada versus Ontario.

• 1:13:51Caleb Hammer?

  Thanks socialist Canada, it's higher interest rates than here.

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  Dang. Well, again, like, part of it is 0%, part of it's like 6%. Anyway, I don't really get it, but it was like $26,000 and now it's only 10, so there's that.

• 1:14:05Caleb Hammer?

  Why?

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  Because I've been paying it off since I graduated. But now I'm kinda like, well, the Canadian accounts are pretty drained and I'm not getting income from Canada.

• 1:14:16Caleb Hammer?

  What do you mean accounts?

• 1:14:17Speaker 04

  Well, I still have like bank accounts in Canada. That's what I mean. It's like, I don't have Canadian income and...

• 1:14:23Caleb Hammer?

  Why should you? You don't live there.

• 1:14:24Speaker 04

  I was using the Canadian funds that I had in that account to pay off the student loans. Now those are drained.

• 1:14:32Caleb Hammer?

  Replenish?

• 1:14:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's where I'm like running into it because...

• 1:14:37Caleb Hammer?

  Replenish?

• 1:14:38Speaker 04

  With my US funds?

• 1:14:40Caleb Hammer?

  Yes.

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  Well, I could, or I could just file a Canadian bankruptcy and it would go away.

• 1:14:45Caleb Hammer?

  They forgive the Canadian student loans via bankruptcy. Have you confirmed that? Because it doesn't work that way in the United States.

• 1:14:50Speaker 04

  I have been out of school for seven plus years. It will fuck my Canadian credit, but it won't fuck my US credit.

• 1:14:57Caleb Hammer?

  It won't fuck your US credit, but it might come up in questionnaires.

• 1:15:00Speaker 04

  What kind of questionnaires? For what?

• 1:15:01Caleb Hammer?

  Questionnaires if you've ever declared bankruptcy before.

• 1:15:04Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:15:06Speaker 04

  But if it's Canadian bankruptcy, they don't care.

• 1:15:08Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know for sure.

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  I don't know either.

• 1:15:10Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know for sure, but are you willing to take that risk? Cause you're in the world of business? You might be looking at small business loans to some point, which don't, yeah, guys, cause you don't even have a business plan.

• 1:15:19Speaker 04

  I called, I forget what they're, they're called. It's like a licensed and L I T or some, it's some three letter acronym. Anyway, so I called them and I was like, hey, I'm having trouble paying off this Canadian student debt. Um, what should I do?

• 1:15:32Caleb Hammer?

  You're just irresponsible and you put money towards the things you want and there it has nothing to do with your inability to pay it back. Your inability because you're irresponsible. So fuck you. You shouldn't even be able to get it forgiven, honestly.

• 1:15:43Speaker 04

  They basically just told me to stop paying it.

• 1:15:46Caleb Hammer?

  And your degree is nursing, you can't use that here?

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  No, I'm, I'm only-

• 1:15:50Caleb Hammer?

  You can't get licensed here though by taking like a, a, a licensing thing or something?

• 1:15:54Speaker 04

  No, I would have to go like straight up back to school because the type of nurse I am is only valid in Ontario. It's called a registered practical nurse. So it's like basically between your L P N and R N and like, there's not an easy track because it's only Ontario.

• 1:16:07Caleb Hammer?

  Money.

• 1:16:08Speaker 04

  I know, but it's only Ontario that it's valid. So I would basically be starting from square one.

• 1:16:12Caleb Hammer?

  Why would you get something that's only available in one province of the country?

• 1:16:15Speaker 04

  I had no idea at the time that it was only in Ontario that it existed. I thought-

• 1:16:19Caleb Hammer?

  Up? You don't, you didn't look up the career you were going into?

• 1:16:23Speaker 04

  I just looked up the types of nursing and that was the best fit for me.

• 1:16:27Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 1:16:27Speaker 04

  Apparently I did. Yeah. You, yeah. Well, it was only two years of schooling to like get out and it was actually good.

• 1:16:34Caleb Hammer?

  Transferable, but how many of the credits? I bet some of the credits are transferable.

• 1:16:37Speaker 04

  Maybe, um-

• 1:16:39Caleb Hammer?

  You haven't looked into it?

• 1:16:39Speaker 04

  I did try to look into it, but I tried to look into it over COVID. So then nothing was like open and like-

• 1:16:45Caleb Hammer?

  What, what wasn't open?

• 1:16:47Speaker 04

  Uh, like my, the, the school in Canada was like-

• 1:16:49Caleb Hammer?

  A year.

• 1:16:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:16:51Caleb Hammer?

  In Canada, maybe a bit longer.

• 1:16:52Speaker 04

  So like during COVID, I was here. I was not allowed to work because I was like, you know, still visitor status. Like I didn't have my status yet. So I started looking into like, oh, like what would nursing in America look like?

• 1:17:04Caleb Hammer?

  You said you went to school for marketing?

• 1:17:06Speaker 04

  No, I took like an online course for marketing once, like years ago. Yeah. Um, and so I tried to look up nursing stuff, but everything was closed down at the time because of COVID. It's like my school like could, it wouldn't pick up. Like most of the institutions that had anything to do with that were just closed. And I was like, okay. So then I just kind of let it slide after that. I didn't- I didn't really like go back into it because I'm not terribly interested in nursing.

• 1:17:29Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, is that all your debt? Because next I see crypto.

• 1:17:33Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 1:17:34Speaker 04

  Ooh, crypto.

• 1:17:35Caleb Hammer?

  Is that all your debt?

• 1:17:36Speaker 04

  That's basically gambling, but is that all of our debt? Or sorry, he's got some student loans as well. So my student loans, your student loans.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  Minor.

• 1:17:46Caleb Hammer?

  US federal or private?

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  I got US federal, FAFSA. I've got like seven grand that's unpaid that I've been staying on top of for the most part.

• 1:17:57Speaker 04

  I thought it was like forty five hundred that you still owe.

• 1:18:01Caleb Hammer?

  Well, you guys don't talk about money, so.

• 1:18:03Speaker 03

  This is us not getting it.

• 1:18:04Speaker 04

  That's what it says in your spreadsheet. I don't know.

• 1:18:07Speaker 03

  That's what it says from what you remember about the last time you looked at it.

• 1:18:12Speaker 04

  Which was like in preparation for the show, so pretty recent.

• 1:18:19Caleb Hammer?

  Good luck, guys.

• 1:18:19Speaker 04

  Is it seven or is it forty five hundred?

• 1:18:21Caleb Hammer?

  What's your minimum monthly payment?

• 1:18:23Speaker 03

  On our?

• 1:18:24Caleb Hammer?

  On your student loans.

• 1:18:27Speaker 03

  Eighty five dollars. I can manage that.

• 1:18:30Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, but that means.

• 1:18:31Speaker 03

  I can make it happen.

• 1:18:32Caleb Hammer?

  You can make the payment, but that means a lot more interest will be occurring because it's so low.

• 1:18:38Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, so crypto, four thousand eight hundred thirty three. Cool, sell it. You wouldn't be, I mean, you've had a thirty two percent loss, so there's no capital gains to be paid. Swallow your losses, pay off your high interest credit card because in order to make up for the city double cash you have, it would have to be earning thirty percent in gains.

• 1:18:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:18:56Caleb Hammer?

  On top of the thirty percent in losses you've done, so you need sixty percent in gains.

• 1:19:00Speaker 04

  To for that deep advantage.

• 1:19:01Caleb Hammer?

  Which you might get, but.

• 1:19:02Speaker 03

  It's not.

• 1:19:04Caleb Hammer?

  It could happen in anything, but it's just like the thirty percent. We know for a fact that's a return on investment. If you start putting that towards the card and I, I'm not, you are not credit card people. No more opening credit cards. You can have the FIS card. Only allows you to spend what's in your checking account, so it's like a debit card. But you can just put it, okay, are we going to sell this?

• 1:19:23Speaker 04

  I, I'm pretty ready to sell it. I feel like you're not.

• 1:19:26Caleb Hammer?

  What is it in? What is it in?

• 1:19:28Speaker 04

  It's Sevens and Coinbase.

• 1:19:29Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, what, what, what fucking crypto?

• 1:19:32Speaker 04

  Duh, Bitcoin, Ethereum, and then like some randoms.

• 1:19:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, when she said some randoms, what she's kinda getting at is the fact that we were silly enough to match a friend's thousand dollar investment when we certainly didn't have a thousand dollars. That's almost certainly the 30% loss, if I'm honest.

• 1:19:51Speaker 04

  True, because that was that Luna coin that kinda tanked.

• 1:19:56Speaker 03

  The, the, the point being like, hey, that's, that's in like Cardano, it's in, it's in common, normal, used stuff.

• 1:20:05Caleb Hammer?

  Sell it, are you going to sell it?

• 1:20:07Speaker 03

  If you say I have to, I will sell it.

• 1:20:11Caleb Hammer?

  You don't have to, but it pays off deck. It's an instant 30% return on your investment and actually it brings you to break even. It brings you to break even technically.

• 1:20:19Speaker 04

  That's smart. That seems like a great idea. Why would we hold on to it?

• 1:20:23Speaker 03

  It feels like we've got the stuff that, that, that, it's like playing the long game the right way.

• 1:20:29Caleb Hammer?

  You can, you can ride it. This isn't retirement. Trust me, probably.

• 1:20:33Speaker 03

  Nothing is retirement.

• 1:20:35Speaker 04

  Nothing's in retirement.

• 1:20:37Caleb Hammer?

  You don't have retirement?

• 1:20:38Speaker 04

  No, I mean, I think I actually have, I'm like paying into social security somehow that I have no clue about. I probably also have like some sort of Canadian something from when I was nursing, but I don't know how to access any of that. So, and it doesn't seem to matter because I'm not in Canada. So I just like, I feel like I've just like let it.

• 1:20:58Caleb Hammer?

  Sell it or don't, guys. I don't know. Your business, I don't think. You guys aren't gonna make it. Your business isn't gonna make it. So I don't even care.

• 1:21:05Speaker 04

  I'll prove you wrong so bad. I want to prove you wrong so bad.

• 1:21:08Caleb Hammer?

  Prove me wrong. I don't care. Prove me wrong. A thousand six hundred eighty-eight dollars in our business checking account? Okay.

• 1:21:14Speaker 04

  Yep. I believe you.

• 1:21:16Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, uh, we subscribe to a Patreon on there. Uh, we got eighty dollars of food.

• 1:21:23Speaker 04

  This is in the business one?

• 1:21:25Caleb Hammer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  Oh, okay.

• 1:21:25Caleb Hammer?

  And our balance went down from being over two thousand to a thousand. Oh, yeah, great. Okay. Low balance fees, service charge fee.

• 1:21:33Speaker 04

  I'm so pissed off at that low balance fee. Like, why can't we just keep money in there?

• 1:21:37Caleb Hammer?

  Because you spend it all on hobby, happy and?

• 1:21:40Speaker 04

  I don't have access to the business checking, just he does.

• 1:21:42Speaker 03

  No, but when our joint checking goes low enough or somebody isn't putting enough money into it, then that money has to come from somewhere. And it does.

• 1:21:52Speaker 04

  But if we just had a thousand dollars in the account, then we wouldn't get that stupid balance fee. And I feel like we've talked about this.

• 1:21:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:21:58Speaker 04

  And I feel like I'm just.

• 1:21:59Speaker 03

  We would have a thousand dollars in the account with a lot less investing and a lot more contributions from both of us regularly from maybe more regular income. Where we could keep those accounts going up instead of down. I'd appreciate it.

• 1:22:16Caleb Hammer?

  Guys, with how many accounts left, you have to have way too many accounts for all.

• 1:22:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, I feel like we do have too many accounts.

• 1:22:22Caleb Hammer?

  Well, it's such a pain in the, like, I want.

• 1:22:25Speaker 03

  Buy your toys. I want it to make sense for it to be the fact that you have. That you have a personal savings and a personal checking inside your relationship.

• 1:22:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:35Speaker 03

  And yet, and yet, the sheer number of accounts, the way it works with budget apps, the way it works with, like, even just trying to track each other's spending, like, yes, it makes more sense to blend it.

• 1:22:46Caleb Hammer?

  I see in this, oh, I see savings and then checking 10,709.

• 1:22:52Speaker 04

  Which one's that?

• 1:22:52Caleb Hammer?

  That's wonderful. In Verve?

• 1:22:54Speaker 04

  They're all in Verve. That's why it's so confusing.

• 1:22:56Speaker 03

  That makes sense.

• 1:22:57Caleb Hammer?

  That's great.

• 1:22:58Speaker 03

  What is it? 10,000 in savings?

• 1:22:59Caleb Hammer?

  Well, 7,000 and then, and then 3,500 in checking, 10,700 total.

• 1:23:04Speaker 03

  That's our almost emergency fund.

• 1:23:06Caleb Hammer?

  That's not bad. Why are we putting that towards debt?

• 1:23:09Speaker 04

  Cause emergencies have, like, we're so spooked from getting the card.

• 1:23:12Caleb Hammer?

  Pay off the high interest debt and then save up an emergency fund.

• 1:23:16Speaker 04

  Okay. That's, that's a good idea.

• 1:23:19Caleb Hammer?

  Savings actually went up. That's not bad, guys.

• 1:23:22Speaker 03

  I feel like it's been, it's been a game.

• 1:23:24Caleb Hammer?

  High interest savings, but.

• 1:23:25Speaker 03

  Of like trying to just, just like bucket water out of the boat that I like built and it's never floated. It's like I built it underwater.

• 1:23:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:23:35Speaker 03

  And I'm like, get this out of it.

• 1:23:38Caleb Hammer?

  Buy your toys.

• 1:23:40Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:23:41Caleb Hammer?

  Uh, I mean, is this Amazon, Audible? Go to the library, guys. PerkSpace Mountain.

• 1:23:48Speaker 04

  You're the subscription one for sure.

• 1:23:49Caleb Hammer?

  I think, uh, Amazon, Something One Mountain, uh, which I'll be one dollars at some point of sale. Clarity Healing Our Health, see tickets, shop Woodman's, Something the Family.

• 1:24:06Speaker 03

  Groceries.

• 1:24:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, Woodman's is groceries.

• 1:24:08Caleb Hammer?

  SQPC.

• 1:24:09Speaker 03

  Squarespace.

• 1:24:11Caleb Hammer?

  More, so double Squarespace.

• 1:24:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, we do have two websites, yeah.

• 1:24:14Caleb Hammer?

  ChatGPT, Dropout.

• 1:24:17Caleb Hammer?

  More, lots of Google Ones, Asian Flamin', Asian Flamin', Zapier, McDonald's. So business expenses in there and that's not even the business checking account.

• 1:24:30Caleb Hammer?

  So disorganized.

• 1:24:32Speaker 04

  Wait, is that your account?

• 1:24:35Caleb Hammer?

  Wasn't it, right?

• 1:24:36Speaker 04

  I thought that was the business one.

• 1:24:38Caleb Hammer?

  Is this business?

• 1:24:40Speaker 04

  I think that was the business account. I could be wrong, but they're all verbs, so it's a little bit confusing.

• 1:24:44Caleb Hammer?

  I had a business account before that. It just says, uh, why would we have, is it business savings as well? It doesn't suggest business.

• 1:24:56Caleb Hammer?

  Doesn't say business anywhere on here.

• 1:24:57Speaker 04

  Uh, it's gonna be.

• 1:24:59Caleb Hammer?

  Oh my god, guys.

• 1:25:01Speaker 04

  Wow, that is a pile, isn't it?

• 1:25:03Caleb Hammer?

  More verb, 1,500 this time across the checking and saving. Okay.

• 1:25:07Speaker 03

  I feel like we just wanna shoot low. I just want us both to make like 30K each.

• 1:25:13Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:25:13Speaker 03

  I know how low that is. I know how dumb that is.

• 1:25:16Caleb Hammer?

  Great, then, then figure out a way to do it. I'm confused. You're not doing, you're doing everything to not do that. So I don't, McDonald's, I don't know, guys.

• 1:25:28Speaker 04

  Do love our McDonald's.

• 1:25:29Caleb Hammer?

  More verb, 2,000 in this one. God, we have money. What are you guys fucking doing? This is so stupid. Amazon, Amazon.

• 1:25:36Speaker 04

  Real question though, should, like, is it bad for us both to have our personal checking savings?

• 1:25:42Caleb Hammer?

  Cause you guys overcomplicate things and don't know how to manage worth a dick. I'd have a business checking account, joint savings, joint checking. Make it simple.

• 1:25:51Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:25:51Speaker 03

  A simpler budget, you might say. I think we could pull it off.

• 1:25:57Caleb Hammer?

  You guys have got about 14,000 hours of sitting aside.

• 1:26:01Speaker 04

  Over, yeah, you overcomplicate everything.

• 1:26:05Speaker 04

  Just.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  There, there might be a lot of money set aside, but it's like, we sit there, we try to talk about what we should do with it, and then it becomes overwhelming and we can't make any choices. And as soon as we can't make any choices, it just sits and there's nothing done. And you're right, there's like enough coming in, kind of. There's the ability to maybe pay all of this off or to, to at least meet these minimum payments. And yet, like, I can't sit and talk about, like, I need you to put this much money into the account this month, and I need you to cover this piece of this, like. I appreciate it. I appreciate somebody else saying that it does make sense for us to consolidate. Because like I've played it out. It's nice to try and keep it separate and it seems to just make a mess.

• 1:26:49Speaker 04

  Well, it's like, I don't, if I'm gonna get like a tattoo or something for me, like I don't feel like he should have to pay for that. So I've just wanted to keep my own account for, you know, autonomy and stuff. And then, but it does kind of overcomplicate it. And then, and then when we're communicating, it's like.

• 1:27:06Caleb Hammer?

  Guys, what is wrong with this TD account? I have overdraft interest.

• 1:27:10Speaker 04

  Huh, that's a.

• 1:27:12Caleb Hammer?

  What the is happening?

• 1:27:13Speaker 04

  That's a Canadian account.

• 1:27:14Caleb Hammer?

  What is happening? Why is there overdraft interest?

• 1:27:16Speaker 04

  Cause I, basically I lost the ability to log in when I got my new phone. And so it, it just sort of like sat there.

• 1:27:25Caleb Hammer?

  Guys, you can't manage a fucking thing to save your life. 4,000 hours in retirement. You can't do anything. You can't do it.

• 1:27:31Speaker 04

  Well, that's when I called about the thing. Cause I was like, oh, my accounts are getting drained. And then what should I do about this student debt? And, and then they told me like, just stop paying it. And I was like, well, that's not a good idea. But it was enough to just like stop me from working on it for a little while.

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  You know, there's a trend here of like not working on things because you're sick of like looking at them.

• 1:27:53Speaker 04

  Well, it's like, when I look at the spreadsheets, it's super depressing to look at all of our expenses.

• 1:27:59Speaker 05

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• 1:28:28Speaker 04

  And then when we look at the spreadsheet with all the gigs coming in, it's like, oh, that's so exciting. So then it's just this very polar experience of like, oh, should I not spend any money? Should I spend all the money that I have? It's like, I'm just, it's very emotional.

• 1:28:44Caleb Hammer?

  I don't know, guys. This is just a mess. I mean, I don't mean to give up. It's just, you guys are way too complicated and just like messed up to... It's like you have to figure out, guys. You have to sit down and actually be willing to communicate on this money. Have to be able to give up our wants, have to be able to go out and work, have to not justify everything on our purchases. A bunch is only gonna do so much. I'm gonna make it, but it's just like... I don't know, guys. This is all just so fucked up and messy because of what you guys are choosing. 3,900 hits our account on a monthly basis on average.

• 1:29:21Speaker 04

  That's good.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  How'd you find that? That's a cool number.

• 1:29:24Caleb Hammer?

  The number you guys gave me at the beginning.

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:29:27Caleb Hammer?

  What the are you guys?

• 1:29:30Speaker 04

  It was like a good month. It was a good month.

• 1:29:33Caleb Hammer?

  No, it's based on what you said you guys bring in on average. You guys answered that.

• 1:29:39Caleb Hammer?

  Guys, I'm, what the am I dealing with? Okay, your debt payment total are $717.72 on a monthly basis. What's your rent?

• 1:29:47Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 1:29:47Speaker 04

  Uh...

• 1:29:48Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, my, how do you not have a number?

• 1:29:51Speaker 04

  1308 is what we pay together. It's 1978, but then we only pay 2/3 of it.

• 1:29:58Caleb Hammer?

  Utilities?

• 1:29:59Speaker 04

  150 a month-ish.

• 1:30:00Caleb Hammer?

  Is that including internet?

• 1:30:03Speaker 03

  Utilities for us, let's say 200.

• 1:30:08Caleb Hammer?

  Including internet?

• 1:30:09Speaker 03

  That's gas, electric.

• 1:30:10Caleb Hammer?

  Is that including internet? For fuck's sake, guys. For fuck's sake, answer a question. Phone bill, how much?

• 1:30:18Speaker 04

  Oh, I'm still financing my phone.

• 1:30:20Caleb Hammer?

  How much?

• 1:30:21Speaker 03

  My phone plan is $80 and like 20 bucks for the, for some bells and whistles.

• 1:30:27Speaker 04

  And your phone plan is on the same bill, so it's, I don't know.

• 1:30:31Speaker 03

  It's more like $160.

• 1:30:32Speaker 04

  It's like $160.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  Because you had to get a really nice phone because you wanted a nice camera.

• 1:30:36Caleb Hammer?

  $240, good. Shut the fuck up. My gosh, guys. You just need to answer questions, please. I'm just trying to get numbers. I'm sorry for being irritated, but for fuck's sake, just answer the questions.

• 1:30:46Speaker 04

  Bring it on.

• 1:30:47Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, my gosh. Switch the helium when you guys are done paying off your phone if T-Mobile works there. Because then it's much cheaper, like 15 bucks a month.

• 1:30:54Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 1:30:54Caleb Hammer?

  For lying.

• 1:30:55Speaker 04

  And I can call Canada?

• 1:30:57Caleb Hammer?

  If they have T-Mobile? Oh, yes. Yeah.

• 1:30:59Speaker 04

  Okay, great.

• 1:31:00Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, transportation, gas, vroom, vroom, drive, drive. How much?

• 1:31:03Speaker 03

  One fifty every two weeks.

• 1:31:05Caleb Hammer?

  Each?

• 1:31:05Speaker 03

  Three hundred a month.

• 1:31:06Caleb Hammer?

  Each and again. Total? Good. Car insurance?

• 1:31:10Speaker 03

  Eighty-five total for both of us. That's also renters.

• 1:31:13Caleb Hammer?

  Not bad. Okay, six hundred dollars for food. Use the cookbook.

• 1:31:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, we are good at cooking.

• 1:31:20Caleb Hammer?

  TP fund, two hundred dollars. Anything else you guys need to survive?

• 1:31:22Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:31:23Caleb Hammer?

  Medical, healthcare, anything?

• 1:31:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just-

• 1:31:25Speaker 04

  Health insurance, right? Like, and then dental?

• 1:31:27Caleb Hammer?

  Yeah, you guys got it. Yeah, how much?

• 1:31:28Speaker 04

  How much is that total?

• 1:31:29Speaker 03

  Sorry, debts or just like insurance?

• 1:31:32Caleb Hammer?

  You have medical debts?

• 1:31:37Caleb Hammer?

  How much of f***ing medical debt?

• 1:31:39Speaker 04

  You have-

• 1:31:40Caleb Hammer?

  I asked, "How mu-" is this all your debt?" And you said, "Yes."

• 1:31:42Speaker 04

  Because it was all my debt.

• 1:31:43Speaker 03

  It was all-

• 1:31:44Caleb Hammer?

  How much of medical debt?

• 1:31:46Speaker 03

  Three grand.

• 1:31:47Caleb Hammer?

  And are you on a payment plan?

• 1:31:49Speaker 03

  And there's a new MRI that hasn't been added yet.

• 1:31:52Caleb Hammer?

  How much will that be?

• 1:31:53Speaker 04

  I thought it was so much lower.

• 1:31:54Caleb Hammer?

  Oh, my f***. Okay, is there a payment plan on the thirty grand?

• 1:31:57Speaker 03

  There is no payment plan on the thirty grand.

• 1:32:00Caleb Hammer?

  Medical payments on a monthly basis. What? This is health insurance. This is out of pocket. This is f***ing copays. This is-

• 1:32:06Speaker 04

  Sorry, I'm still shocked.

• 1:32:07Caleb Hammer?

  Medication. I'm shocked that I'm not hearing the number.

• 1:32:10Speaker 03

  One twenty.

• 1:32:13Caleb Hammer?

  That's it? Medical on a monthly basis? Okay, gym?

• 1:32:16Speaker 04

  Uh, that is-

• 1:32:18Speaker 03

  Fifty and eighty-five. So, one thirty-five.

• 1:32:21Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, one thirty-five.

• 1:32:23Speaker 04

  And the gym.

• 1:32:24Caleb Hammer?

  How, what's the health of the age of cat?

• 1:32:26Speaker 04

  He is like seven or eight-ish. Pretty good health, but getting up there.

• 1:32:30Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, no pet insurance then, probably. Too old to qualify, I think.

• 1:32:34Speaker 04

  No, we did get actually a pet insurance card. And it would have been like, it's gonna be thirty-five bucks.

• 1:32:38Caleb Hammer?

  Okay, get pet insurance, thirty-five. How much for cat food?

• 1:32:42Speaker 04

  Um, I'm gonna say like a big, big if-

• 1:32:45Speaker 03

  That's sixty dollars every two months.

• 1:32:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:32:48Caleb Hammer?

  Thirty bucks. Anything else that needs to be in your budget?

• 1:32:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:32:52Caleb Hammer?

  So, the subscriptions is a real good one to cat- Okay, how much for business expenses?

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  Because you're looking at-

• 1:32:57Caleb Hammer?

  How mu- buh buh buh. No, because this is, this is net, guys. Your, your income was net. So, that's not including business expenses.

• 1:33:03Speaker 04

  Hmm.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  But they're partial, things like Spotify, being like fifty percent of a business expense.

• 1:33:09Speaker 04

  Like Spotify we need, like-

• 1:33:10Caleb Hammer?

  For your business?

• 1:33:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's how we play the-

• 1:33:12Caleb Hammer?

  Okay.

• 1:33:12Speaker 04

  I can't add in the-

• 1:33:13Caleb Hammer?

  That's including your business expenses, which comes up before your net income.

• 1:33:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, like Spotify, Zaper, Google One.

• 1:33:20Caleb Hammer?

  But there's nothing that's not a business expense, right?

• 1:33:22Speaker 03

  I hear what you're saying. Um, Audible, Paramount, Netflix.

• 1:33:28Caleb Hammer?

  You're canceling Paramount because there's nothing on there. You're canceling Netflix because it's all shit. You're canceling Audible because you're going to go to a library because you live in a major metropolitan area and you're not a fucking child.

• 1:33:38Speaker 04

  Well, cancel Well Presents Plus and NordVPN.

• 1:33:41Caleb Hammer?

  No one's ever heard of that. Yeah, fine. You can cancel that too.

• 1:33:43Speaker 04

  The Paul Stray Race. It's a great show.

• 1:33:47Caleb Hammer?

  I just didn't know it was still happening.

• 1:33:49Speaker 04

  It's, yeah, still going. Season 17, baby.

• 1:33:52Caleb Hammer?

  Sure. Congratulations. Yeah, you're about $200 under what you guys need to make. So $4,772. Honey, it's, I mean, the income is the situation, bud. You guys shouldn't be in business together. I don't even know if you should be in business. You need to go out, get a real job, maybe manage the business, work that stuff on part-time, just show up and perform. Uh, good luck, guys. You are still beyond disorganized and on the same path together. This is really bad, really bad, really bad, really bad, really bad, really bad. And I'm just, I'm just over this conversation. What a... Oh my gosh, guys. Join us in the post-show. Join Hammer Elite in the description below for the best YouTube membership on the platform. The platform themselves even acknowledges that. And that is because we offer more than any other YouTube membership. Thousands of hours of content, a show every single day.

• 1:34:37Caleb Hammer?

  Your Hammer financial score, spending in a budget. You ever spend? Zero out of 10? Off, guys.

• 1:34:46Caleb Hammer?

  You think you're just, you love yourselves. Debt.

• 1:34:49Speaker 04

  We do. We have that at least.

• 1:34:50Caleb Hammer?

  There's IRS debt, medical debt, zero out of 10, emergency fund. Emergency fund? Yeah, there's some money. Yeah, just pay off the debt. You guys have the money. Say, this is so... This is beyond, just take every and put them together and that is this. Emergency fund.

• 1:35:12Caleb Hammer?

  I said that because you look like someone that wouldn't like that word. Hey, emergency funds- It's a really fun word. It just, you know, it has to be- Pay off the debt- Used in the right context. And then the emergency fund will be like a... Well, no, no, no. Because of where the emergency fund at, it's at a 10 out of 10 now. She's gotta put it towards the debt, which is zero out of 10 now. Term of- On something. Actually, no, it's not, because you own your own business, so it's five out of 10, because it needs to be double. Retirement, you have a little bit there, crypto- Snuff fire. It's gonna be about a two out of 10 real estate, it's not a score, yeah.

• 1:35:42Caleb Hammer?

  Hammer Financial Score, 1.5 out of- That's not that bad. Shut the f- up. I'll see you guys in the post-show, and make sure you download the budgeting app if you don't want to end up like them. And sign up for the annual version, and I'll send you our cookbook, which you can't purchase anywhere, get anywhere else, mailed directly to you, signed by me. See you in the post-show. They just told me something, they just told me something so f- t-. This explains everything. This explains everything. You know how they survive? You know how they survive on a monthly basis? They survive because they rely from home- Because they don't make enough to survive, so you think they'd be getting more elusive members content? Click the link in the description or pinned comment below, and watch thousands of hours of extra and uncensored content.

• 1:36:26Speaker 01

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