Tig Notaro: Finding What Matters

Comedian Tig Notaro recently witnessed the death of her friend, poet Andrea Gibson, after a years-long battle with cancer. Being by Andrea's bedside was a profound experience for Tig and she talks about its impact on her in this moving and at times funny conversation. Join the community to share your story and watch Anderson's weekly streaming show All There Is Live at cnn.com/allthereis. Host: Anderson Cooper Showrunner: Haley Thomas Producers: Chuck Hadad, Grace Walker, Emily Williams Associate Producer: Kyra Dahring Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski Technical Director: Dan Dzula Bookers: Kerry Rubin and Kari Pricher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Anderson Cooper?

  Why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they're still alive? Poet Andrea Gibson, who died this summer, wrote those words. Tig Notaro was there when Andrea Gibson died, and we'll talk to her about what she witnessed and how it's made Tig rethink her own life. That's coming up on this episode of All There Is. This past week, I interviewed two people who also witnessed the deaths of their loved ones. Susan Heim's son Charlie died at 17. He died in her arms this summer, around the same time Andrea Gibson died. Susan had cared for Charlie his whole life. He had Down's Syndrome and cerebral palsy.

• 0:45Anderson Cooper?

  Joe Sims cared for his son Jacob for 33 years. He also had special needs. Jacob died six years ago, and I want to play you some of what Joe said on All There Is Live, the companion show to this podcast.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  One of the things that Jacob loved to do was go on road trips. He loved nature. He loved being outside. He loved, I like, I loved putting his feet in a creek and let him feel the cool water. And I even took him near by one of the waterfalls, and he felt the mist of the water. I think that was his best time when he was doing that. Even though he lived to only 33, he had a full life. And then it ends. And you don't know what you're supposed to do. You lose yourself because your whole identity is wrapped around his every moment. And you hit the wall.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  And then he passed away on a Tuesday, and my wife and I were lost on Wednesday. We wandered around for months, trying to figure out our life without him. There's some days that I still feel the fog. And then there's other days I can see out of the fog, and I think that's what my, my son would want. I don't want to stop grieving, though, honestly, Anderson. I don't want to stop grieving. I think the grieving is, is, is healthy. It keeps me in touch with him. I've talked to him every day still.

• 2:14Anderson Cooper?

  You feel him in your grief.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Oh, big time, sure, yeah, just like you do with your grief. And it's weird to say this, but I'm happy that I'm sad at times. I'm happy I still have that.

• 2:26Anderson Cooper?

  Cause you're feeling.

• 2:27Speaker 01

  That's right. It's not supposed to go away. It just isn't. You're supposed to be able to live with it and still have a good life and a happy life and still have grief. There's, you can live with both.

• 2:38Anderson Cooper?

  Can you say Jacob's full name so that everybody listening hears it?

• 2:43Speaker 01

  It's Jacob David Sims. Born in Phoenix, Arizona. In 1986, January 17th. His birthday's coming up.

• 2:53Anderson Cooper?

  Maybe everybody at home who's watching could repeat the name just so that everybody tonight is speaking his name out there into the, into the universe. Jacob David Sims.

• 3:07Speaker 01

  I appreciate that. Thank you.

• 3:09Anderson Cooper?

  In a moment, my conversation with Tig Notaro.

• 3:15Anderson Cooper?

  My guest today is comedian, cancer survivor Tig Notaro. I spoke to Tig just days after she'd attended a memorial in celebration of life for her longtime friend, spoken word poet Andrea Gibson. Andrea died July 14th. They were 49 years old. Andrea, who used the pronouns they and them, was diagnosed four years ago with stage four ovarian cancer. When Andrea died, Tig was there, in the home that Andrea shared with their wife, Megan Fowley. Tig is also a producer on an incredibly moving documentary that follows Andrea and Megan through Andrea's illness. The film is called Come See Me in the Good Light, and you can watch it streaming on Apple TV right now.

• 3:58Anderson Cooper?

  I played part of the film with Tig when she sat down, and I want you to hear Andrea's words. I want you to meet Andrea Gibson.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I feel like I lived so much longer in these last years than I did all the years before.

• 4:17Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  Wow, I got this life. And I know I'm not gonna die today. Like, I feel pretty certain. So wow, like, wow, I get tomorrow too.

• 4:40Speaker 02

  So what happens next? I don't know.

• 4:47Speaker 02

  I want to live in the mystery, you know?

• 4:54Speaker 02

  I want my very last second to be like, "Damn, I wish I had a million more of these."

• 5:07Anderson Cooper?

  Do you feel like that is what Andrea's last seconds were like?

• 5:11Speaker 03

  No doubt.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:17Speaker 03

  And, man, hearing Andrea's voice, it's tough. I think...

• 5:27Anderson Cooper?

  It's still so recent, too.

• 5:28Speaker 03

  It's very recent. But hearing Andrea just now was...

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  I just can't stand that Andrea is gone.

• 5:45Anderson Cooper?

  Today is actually Andrea's birthday.

• 5:48Speaker 03

  Mm-hmm. Andrea Gibson turned 50 years old today. Yeah, almost made it.

• 5:55Anderson Cooper?

  How did you meet Andrea?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  When I left Texas as a teenager, I dropped out of high school and moved to Colorado. And I met Andrea backstage at this theater called Old Main.

• 6:07Anderson Cooper?

  Andrea was already doing spoken word poetry?

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yep. Andrea looked like a rock star, tattoos. Just to find out Andrea was a poet, it was not my world. And I was in comedy at the time. But a poet, I was like, "Okay, I'm listening." And then Andrea went onstage and leveled the place.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  I was stunned. I didn't know that was poetry. I didn't know poetry could look like that.

• 6:39Anderson Cooper?

  Oh.

• 6:39Speaker 03

  But that's how Andrea's shows were. It was just like so intense, so you could be crying and then Andrea was one of the funniest, most ridiculous people. And that's where I fully connected.

• 6:54Anderson Cooper?

  Meg said at one point that she didn't want to grieve while Andrea was alive.

• 7:03Speaker 03

  Mm hmm.

• 7:03Anderson Cooper?

  She was intentionally not going down that road. Do you feel like you have already been grieving Andrea before Andrea died?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  Yes, yes, for sure. It was also very confusing. I feel like I'm very grounded. And then I find myself in these moments of life where I'm like, maybe Andrea is lying about having cancer. You know, like, you know?

• 7:34Anderson Cooper?

  I did some weird Netflix documentary.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, you hear stories about people.

• 7:39Anderson Cooper?

  Right, yeah.

• 7:39Speaker 03

  Lying.

• 7:40Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  And, and I was like, man, that would be the greatest ending to this story is just to find out my friend has deep trauma and lied about this. And let's dig in and figure that out. It didn't feel possible for Andrea to not be alive in this physical world.

• 8:05Anderson Cooper?

  Does it feel different than you expected it to be?

• 8:08Speaker 03

  I think it's definitely different. I didn't expect to feel Andrea so much.

• 8:13Anderson Cooper?

  Andrea's presence still?

• 8:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've lost my mother, my father, my stepfather, my cousin. I've lost many friends and...

• 8:27Speaker 03

  Colleagues, I have to say, it's really the first time I've experienced a death in the way that I have, where I really feel Andrea. And I don't know what that is, but the grief I feel, you know how tricky it is? You go about your day and you're doing all right, and then all of a sudden, a truck parks itself on your chest and you can't do anything. It's so confusing that Andrea is gone. Like, I was just at their memorial in Denver a couple of nights ago, and it really just felt like we were at a party for Andrea. I mean, it was devastating, and poets from every corner of the globe came in to read

• 9:10Speaker 03

  Andrea's poetry, and it was a, this is gonna sound crazy, a greatest hits night. I mean, God, their hits, it's hit poetry. What am I saying? But it's true. It was just so beautiful.

• 9:24Anderson Cooper?

  As you said, you've experienced grief before your mom died, and then, very shortly after that, you got cancer.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  Yes, yes. It was a four-month, I think, period of time that I had pneumonia, then I contracted this intestinal disease called C. diff, and I had invasive cancer. My mother tripped, hit her head and died, and my girlfriend and I split up. So that was an overload of grief, grief about my body after surgeries and...

• 10:02Anderson Cooper?

  Did I read correctly that you had to make the decision of removing life support?

• 10:07Speaker 03

  From my mother?

• 10:09Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 10:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and with my stepfather. I describe it to people like, you're watching your loved one drown, and you can't throw him any sort of safety net. You just have to let him drown as you hold their hand. And same with Andrea.

• 10:31Speaker 03

  Being dehydrated and they desperately want any sort of hydration. And then after a certain point, you you just have to let go and it's every deathbed that I've been or end of life. It's so different. It's so different. And Andrea's was at home and really one of the most beautiful experiences of my life.

• 11:03Anderson Cooper?

  Beautiful in what way?

• 11:05Speaker 03

  That's not to say it wasn't utterly devastating. And that feeling of unfairness. But there were just a lot of different people from different times in Andrea's life that traveled actual long distances. Planes, trains, automobiles. And emotional journeys that people were on. And I remember after my diagnosis, that feeling when you know how precious something is. It's that sweet spot. But it oftentimes and sadly comes in the very last moment. A breakup or somebody's dying. You can see everything so clearly.

• 11:50Speaker 03

  Every grudge goes completely away. And everybody really holding each other through it for days. Literally, holding each other. No matter how well you did or didn't know the person next to you. One of the things was Andrea was highly medicated because when people are in that in the final moments, there's discomfort and pain and

• 12:20Anderson Cooper?

  Andrew said something.

• 12:21Speaker 03

  One of the things was I fucking loved my life. Yeah, I fucking loved my life. And we all just looked at each other. It was it was a gift. It was such a gift to be able to hear Andrea say that. And to be in the room when that happened was extraordinary.

• 12:42Anderson Cooper?

  You called it a transformative experience being there.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah. I don't even know how to explain what I was just a part of and what I just witnessed. It really, really resonated on a very deep level of

• 13:00Speaker 03

  I don't want to get caught up in anything that's not real. And that was real. That was really real, what I witnessed. The love, the humanity was on overdrive.

• 13:14Anderson Cooper?

  It's beautiful.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  It was really beautiful. Really beautiful.

• 13:19Anderson Cooper?

  I mean, one can't ask for any other way to die, really.

• 13:23Speaker 03

  That's what I want.

• 13:26Anderson Cooper?

  More of my conversation with Tig Notaro in just a moment. If you want to listen or watch past episodes of this podcast, you can do that at our community page, cnn.com/AllThereIs. That's where you can also watch our new weekly companion show called All There Is Live. It's Thursday nights at 9:15 PM Eastern. We'll be right back with more from Tig.

• 13:47Speaker 04

  I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta, host of the Chasing Life podcast. We're going to talk about rethinking how we die. How we think about death in the first place greatly informs how we live. Our guest is Dr. BJ Miller. He's a hospice and palliative care physician.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  We are aging as a people. This is a worldwide phenomenon that we are aging and therefore getting closer to the end of life on some level as a group. It's not at all surprising that you'll see a revving up of interests, services, and also sort of anxiety that pushes us away from the subject and makes us cling to life.

• 14:26Speaker 04

  Listen to Chasing Life, streaming now, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 14:35Anderson Cooper?

  We're back with Tig Notaro. Do you feel like you have gone back to your regular life? Or do you still feel that transformative power?

• 14:45Speaker 03

  It's rippling on a very deep level that's making me feel tethered to really what matters.

• 14:55Speaker 03

  And I don't know how long that, you know, I'm human and you go in and out of that, or I do, but I feel very tethered to, you know, what matters and who matters. And it's really making me rethink a lot of things in my life.

• 15:14Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, you don't want to go back to just normal life.

• 15:17Speaker 03

  I think I want a new normal, not holding on to anything that's not real. I was lucky enough to be in Colorado for the couple of weeks after Andrea passed and I couldn't sleep well and I was getting up at four in the morning and I didn't know what to do with myself or what to do with this energy. And I was taking 6:00 AM walks and watching the sun come up and told my wife Stephanie, I was like, I have so much energy that I don't know where to put it, that I feel like I, I just want to walk back to Andrea's house. And she was like, what are you talking about? You can't, well, it's

• 16:00Speaker 03

  a four hour drive. And I was like, I'm up for it. She was like, okay, where are you going to sleep? I was like, I don't care. I'll sleep on the side of the road. I felt like I don't need any food or any water. I just have this crazy energy in me where I just, I felt so connected to that room where Andrea was and where Andrea's loved ones and closest people and exes and family. Like it was this other worldly experience and it's a sweet spot that would be incredible to be able to live in, but it's sadly not realistic. And I turned to Stephanie at one point and said, and can you believe at

• 16:44Speaker 03

  some point I'm going to have to exit the 101 onto Melrose and just head back into Hollywood? Like I, I could not comprehend such a thing.

• 16:55Anderson Cooper?

  That juxtaposition is so, it's interesting. I lived briefly in Los Angeles in my early twenties when I was first starting out as a reporter and I was just going to war zones and conflict zones. And I would be in these incredible, extraordinary.

• 17:09Anderson Cooper?

  Places where horrific things were happening and it was life and death and the molecules of the air were charged with

• 17:17Speaker 03

  Damn.

• 17:17Anderson Cooper?

  Human emotion and I mean it was just impossible to describe. And then to return to Los Angeles and be in a supermarket and there's like cool mist on the vegetables and

• 17:27Speaker 03

  Go work out at Crunch.

• 17:28Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, I mean, all I wanted to do was leave and go back.

• 17:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 17:33Anderson Cooper?

  Even though when I was there, I was depressed and horrified by what I was seeing.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Very similar. I was devastated, devastated, but I was also very aware that this was the greatest in humanity, what was going on in

• 17:54Anderson Cooper?

  In that room.

• 17:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it was.

• 17:57Anderson Cooper?

  I think it's one of the reasons I started this podcast is because just the weirdness that this is stuff people don't talk about and yet it is something that everybody may experience at some point in their life if they're lucky to be there when their loved one is leaving.

• 18:13Speaker 03

  Well, what I think I really realized through this experience is that death really is coming for us all. I don't know if it's right to say make friends with that idea of dying, but it really should be more in conversation. I don't want my death to sneak up on my kids, although I've had a lot of health issues, so I don't know if it's going to sneak up on anyone, but I really have such a new, not that I'm going to abandon comedy and become a death doula, but

• 18:43Anderson Cooper?

  Oh my God, don't get me started on death doulas. I mean, I hear from so many of them. It's an extraordinary thing.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  It is extraordinary and I get it.

• 18:51Anderson Cooper?

  I get it. I seriously considered giving up my job.

• 18:54Speaker 03

  Anderson and Tig's death doula.

• 18:57Anderson Cooper?

  I would do it. I'll do it if you do it.

• 18:58Speaker 03

  Sir, let's do it. It is so, I mean, hospice nurses, death doulas.

• 19:07Anderson Cooper?

  Well, I'm so pale and white, people would think like they're already in the afterlife, afterlife, when I walk in. You'd get them laughing and then I would walk in and freak everybody out.

• 19:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 19:16Anderson Cooper?

  Oh my God.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  I think people would freak out if we were who showed up in their final moments of life.

• 19:21Anderson Cooper?

  Ding dong.

• 19:24Anderson Cooper?

  TNA are here.

• 19:26Speaker 03

  TNA.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Um, TNA?

• 19:29Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Tig and An- oh, right.

• 19:30Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, Tig and Anderson.

• 19:31Speaker 03

  Yes, okay.

• 19:31Anderson Cooper?

  No, I wasn't re- I mean, it was a- I was making a reference to it.

• 19:35Speaker 03

  We'll cut that out, right?

• 19:36Anderson Cooper?

  No, no, I think that'll stay in.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  We need to get business cards to me.

• 19:40Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:41Speaker 03

  But, um, but no, this experience with Andrea really made me understand the importance of really talking about death rather than live my life fearing death and trying to kick it away at every possible

• 19:56Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  move I'm making, to just really incorporate it into my thoughts and the way I go about things because it's, it's coming.

• 20:07Anderson Cooper?

  Andrea wrote a poem, a letter from the afterlife. I just want to play part of it.

• 20:13Speaker 02

  My love, I was so wrong. Dying is the opposite of leaving. When I left my body, I did not go away. That portal of light was not a portal to elsewhere, but a portal to here. I am more here than I ever was before. I am more with you than I ever could have imagined. So close you look past me when wondering where I am. It's okay. I know that to be human is to be farsighted. But feel me now, walking the chambers of your heart, pressing my palms to the soft walls of your living.

• 20:54Speaker 02

  Why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they are still alive? Ask me the altitude of heaven and I will answer, how tall are you?

• 21:08Anderson Cooper?

  It's pretty incredible.

• 21:12Anderson Cooper?

  Andrea's saying, why did no one tell, why did no one tell us that to die is to be reincarnated in those we love while they are still alive? Ask me the altitude of heaven, I'll answer, how tall are you?

• 21:26Anderson Cooper?

  I love that.

• 21:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, one of my favorite things Andrea ever said was, what kind of poet would I be if I could only make things beautiful on the page?

• 21:39Speaker 03

  And yeah, Andrea wrote that and Andrea spoke those words to Meg's face. I also love the line of like, I'm so close that you look past me. You don't even know that I'm there. I, I feel that so much.

• 21:58Anderson Cooper?

  And the dying is the opposite of leaving. When I left my body, I did not go away. That portal of light was not a portal to elsewhere, but a portal to here. That idea to me is so moving. I had never really grieved until a couple of years ago. I never really allowed myself to. And I do think if you allow yourself to feel grief, you can feel the person alive inside you.

• 22:20Speaker 03

  Maybe it's like, I'm experiencing what you experienced two years ago of opening yourself up to something like that, grief on whatever level.

• 22:30Anderson Cooper?

  By the way, I don't know why I'm the one who's always crying on this frigging podcast of mine.

• 22:35Anderson Cooper?

  I don't know why it's supposed to be the guests who are crying. It's not supposed to be like the host is very pathetic. Jesus, pull yourself together, Anderson.

• 22:45Anderson Cooper?

  I was imagining, are you thinking like, God, this guy's a wreck?

• 22:47Speaker 03

  No, I was thinking.

• 22:50Anderson Cooper?

  This is disconcerting. Nobody told me this guy was such an emotional basket case.

• 22:54Speaker 03

  Why didn't anyone mention what a loose cannon this man was?

• 22:59Speaker 03

  No, I think it's incredible. And I think it's that space that I'm truly sitting here and I've already said to you, I adore you and I love your work and I felt like I knew you and I don't. But I am sitting here going, God, I would love to talk more with you. I would love to know more. I love, I like, I feel very much in this space.

• 23:22Anderson Cooper?

  It's okay if you want to ask me questions. It's true, don't worry. You could test call enough that I will answer, but I do want to play something else that, that Andrea wrote and spoke in a letter from, from the afterlife.

• 23:35Speaker 02

  My love, I want to sing it through the rafters of your bones dying is the opposite of leaving. I want to echo it through the corridor of your temples. I am more with you than I ever was before. Do you understand? It was me who beckoned the stranger who caught you in her arms when you forgot not to order for two at the coffee shop. It was me who was up all night gathering sunflowers into your chest the last day you feared you would never again wake up feeling lighthearted. I know it's hard to believe, but I promise it's the truth. I promise one day you will say it too.

• 24:20Speaker 02

  I can't believe I ever thought I could lose you.

• 24:26Anderson Cooper?

  I really hope that's true.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:30Anderson Cooper?

  That dying is the opposite of leaving. Do you believe that?

• 24:35Speaker 02

  I think I'm like really trying to understand and make sense of my feelings because I haven't been somebody that has felt that.

• 24:49Anderson Cooper?

  Really? You don't strike me as the kind of person who pushes down your feelings.

• 24:52Speaker 02

  How dare you?

• 24:53Anderson Cooper?

  I'm saying that sarcastically because I see myself in you and so I know it when I see it.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Okay, yeah. My wife is very into feeling. Well, no, I'm very, I'm very, I'm actually very sensitive, but as far as my belief in what's going on after this life, I haven't really bought into. I'm kind of buying in with Andrea. Death inevitably brings up couldas, shouldas, wouldas. And...

• 25:35Speaker 03

  And with Andrea, I had this dream for years that I would go on tour with Andrea. And for years, I'd be like, ah, I'll do it later. I don't know if you experienced that.

• 25:46Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, I mean, of course.

• 25:47Speaker 03

  Shoulda, coulda, wouldas.

• 25:48Anderson Cooper?

  Absolutely.

• 25:49Speaker 03

  They're the toughest after a death.

• 25:52Anderson Cooper?

  I mean, I wish I'd interviewed Andrea two years ago about what they were going through.

• 26:01Speaker 03

  Well, and that's what's so incredible to see, like, how exciting that the world is finding out about Andrea Gibson. There's no world that I thought when I met that scrappy little rock star poet backstage at Old Main in Boulder, that they would become who they became. Stephanie was saying Andrea Gibson is now going to be one of very few poets people know by name. That is wild. What poet becomes famous, you know, then publishes eight books?

• 26:42Speaker 03

  And Anderson Cooper is sitting here saying, I wish I had interviewed Andrea Gibson. It's really remarkable.

• 26:48Anderson Cooper?

  I ask a question to everybody on the podcast. Is there something you've learned in your grief that would help others?

• 26:53Speaker 03

  I think about those kind of hard moments that you don't want to face that seem impossible at the time. I have fear initially in a lot of those hard moments, like, how am I going to do this? When I was a kid in junior high school, I hung out with this guy, John. He was a rocker and had the most incredible vinyl collection. And we'd hang out in his bedroom and listen to records. And one day, he was like, oh, dude, my mom just got home. I'm not supposed to have anyone over. Can you jump out of my window?

• 27:32Speaker 03

  And I was like, what? And I was like, on the ledge of his second floor window. And I'm like, I can't let John get in trouble. So I just jumped. And that moment that I just had to force myself to jump and just do it. I've taken with me my whole life because even though, and look, I don't recommend jumping, especially when you're like a knobby need seventh grader onto cement. But that moment that I just, I had to mind over matter, just go, just jump.

• 28:12Speaker 03

  And when I have to do something hard, I just, I go off and I do it. And I think that the lesson goes back to your question of what have I learned from my grief? And it is to not avoid it. And for a long time, I, I've avoided grief and wasn't quite ready for it. And I feel it has opened me as a person tremendously to explore it and be also available to others in their grief.

• 28:49Anderson Cooper?

  Wait a minute, are you gonna start a grief podcast? Cause I'm the only one who has repressed my grief my entire life who gets to have a podcast about it.

• 28:58Speaker 03

  Well, if you're looking for a co-host.

• 29:01Anderson Cooper?

  Funny and everything. Damn it. God, it's the only thing I had going.

• 29:06Speaker 03

  And I'm taking this from you too. Uh, yeah.

• 29:10Anderson Cooper?

  There can only be one person who's repressed their grief.

• 29:14Speaker 03

  Only one gay grief repressed.

• 29:17Anderson Cooper?

  With unprocessed or whatever you wanna call it.

• 29:20Speaker 03

  With connections to Mississippi.

• 29:22Anderson Cooper?

  That's right.

• 29:25Speaker 03

  With two sons.

• 29:27Anderson Cooper?

  Yeah, two sons.

• 29:28Speaker 03

  And.

• 29:30Anderson Cooper?

  Is there anything else you wanna say?

• 29:33Speaker 03

  Um, no, I just.

• 29:36Anderson Cooper?

  Do you regret walking into this?

• 29:38Speaker 03

  What?

• 29:39Anderson Cooper?

  Did your bookers tell you what this was? Thank you so much.

• 29:44Speaker 03

  Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me.

• 29:49Anderson Cooper?

  I know the holidays can be tough, and I hope you know that you're not alone. If you have something that helps you get through these holidays, leave us a video message on our Instagram at AllThereIs or at our voicemail box, 404-827-1805. AllThereIs is going to be back with a new episode on December 2nd with musician Nick Cave, who's experienced the death of two sons, Arthur and Jethro.

• 30:12Speaker 06

  What I came to understand is that we are all sort of creatures of loss, that we are all part of the world and that we are all suffering in our own ways. The world is suffering from loss. It is the thing that holds us together.

• 30:31Anderson Cooper?

  There is an ocean of grief out there.

• 30:33Speaker 06

  Yeah, and I think that that's the sort of connective tissue that holds us all together. It's the thing that we can, we can look, I can look at you, you can look at me, and we understand that within our lives, whatever they may be, there is this sort of thread of loss that runs through.

• 30:51Anderson Cooper?

  Wherever you are in your grief, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're together. You're not alone.