Matt Bomer, Vol. II

Matt Bomer can seemingly do it all. If you've seen WHITE COLLAR, MAGIC MIKE, FELLOW TRAVELERS, and THE NORMAL HEART, you know what we're talking about. He's also one of the nicest folks in the business. Here, in a live taping at the Miami Film Festival, Matt reflects on all of it and even receives a surprise from Jonathan Bailey! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Quince -- Go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! UPCOMING EVENTS! 5/5 -- Stanley Tucci in NY -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 0:29Josh Horowitz?

  This guy was almost Superman. You were cast, essentially. You were very close to being cast.

• 0:33Speaker 02

  I was such an unknown at the time. It's so hard to know. I mean, I went in on a cattle call. Then I got a phone call from the casting people. Then I went and met with a director and read with an actress. Then I went back in and screen tested in the suit and signed the contract. You know, all that stuff that you do where it's like, okay, this is the next step. You're doing the role. And I know that I was the director's choice for the role. And then, wah wah.

• 0:57Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:05Josh Horowitz?

  Hey, guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today on the podcast, it's Matt Bomer. From the soaps to white collar to fellow travelers to almost playing Superman and so much more. Matt Bomer on the podcast for the first time since 2015. A ton to catch up on. Hey, guys, thanks as always for checking out the podcast, for enjoying us on YouTube or on Spotify, however you're doing it. I love you guys. Remember to hit that subscribe button on whatever platform you're using. And remember to spread the good word on our Patreon. Patreon.com/happy sad confused. If you've considered getting bonus materials, wanting more of Happy Sad Confused than what I do, that's the place for it. You get the discount codes to our live events. You get early guest announcements.

• 1:50Josh Horowitz?

  You can ask guests questions. We have autographed merch. Patreon.com/happy sad confused. And among the announcements over there that I can now announce over here are some upcoming live events. So let me tease you on a few. And all the information on how to get tickets to these, by the way, is in the show notes. On May 3rd, I am catching up live in New York City with Charlie Cox, Daredevil himself, first time guest on the podcast. It's never happened. It's finally happening for Daredevil Born Again. I'm so excited to talk to Charlie about his entire career, but especially this latest great season of Daredevil that's just concluding right as we're doing this live event. So, May 3rd, Charlie Cox, get your tickets now. May 5th, it is Stanley Tucci.

• 2:34Josh Horowitz?

  Stanley Tucci, this is gonna be, I think, a sold out one. There might be a few tickets available. Now's the time. Devil Wears Prada 2, his Italy show, his entire career. It's gonna be a packed house at 92nd Street Y. Come on out. And then what else can I say? What else can I say? Got those two, got those two. Billy Eichner, have I mentioned that one? I don't think I've mentioned that one. May 17th, Billy Eichner. He is talking all things about his audio memoir, an audiobook that he has just written, recorded. This is his big New York launch event. I'm so excited that Billy asked me to do this. Tickets are on sale right now, 92nd Street Y. Again, there will be more live events, don't you worry.

• 3:14Josh Horowitz?

  There are plenty of opportunities to see me do my thing, always in New York and potentially elsewhere soon, too. Which is a nice segue to talk about this conversation with Matt Bomer. This was in fact taped as a live event, but not in New York City, not in Los Angeles, not in Chicago. We went to Miami. That's right. It sounds like a reality show. Matt Bomer and Josh Horowitz hit Miami.

• 3:38Josh Horowitz?

  Matt was honored with the Vanguard Award from the Miami Film Festival. Lovely honor, well deserved. The Miami Film Festival has been really great to me the last couple of years. We did a live event last year with Paul Feig, and they invited me back, they invited Matt, and we made this happen, this live conversation. Want to thank Miami for their hospitality. It was fantastic. A quick trip, but it was a lot of fun. And Matt was just a gem. I say this about a lot of people, but Matt, Matt is, he's a good dude. He brought his mom, he brought his sister, and he brought, most importantly, a great attitude. This is a really fun conversation about his entire career. It's a career conversation. He's got the new film, I should say, Outcome, which is on Apple TV right now.

• 4:21Josh Horowitz?

  Jonah Hill wrote and directed it, Keanu Reeves, Cameron Diaz, Matt Bomer. What more can you ask for? Check that out on Apple TV. But this conversation, we cover a whole, we really cover all the big stuff in his career. From his beginnings, from his, there's some fun stuff in this from his...

• 4:40Josh Horowitz?

  His childhood friends, his college friends that turned out to be major actors in their own right. So, look forward to in this conversation, some intel from the likes of Lee Pace, his friend when I think he was like 13 or 14 years old, from Joe Manganiello, who of course co-starred with him in Magic Mike and Magic Mike XXL, but also went to Carnegie Mellon with him. So Joe was kind enough to give me some inside intel that I surprised Matt with. We also have a lovely video message from Jonathan Bailey in this conversation. Stay to the end because that's really cool. Jonathan sent me a lovely couple of questions and remembrance of his working with him on, of course, fellow travelers. So yes, this

• 5:22Josh Horowitz?

  conversation covers it all. White collar, of course, fellow travelers, guiding light way back when. The time that Matt, you may have heard the story, you may have not, it's kind of crazy. He really was essentially cast as Superman a long time ago in a movie that never happened. That's a crazy story and that's in this conversation. So, what you're about to see and hear is Matt and I, moments after he has received this Vanguard Award from the Miami Film Festival. So we're, you're gonna see us sit down and have this chat in front of this audience live in Miami. And I hope you guys enjoy it. I know I did. I think Matt did. So without any further ado, here's me and Matt Bomer on Happy, Sad, Confused.

• 6:05Josh Horowitz?

  It's Matt Bomer, everybody! Come on!

• 6:12Josh Horowitz?

  Now I have to treat you with real respect. You're an award-winning actor, Matt Bomer, Vanguard Award winner.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  No, please. Let's, no, not at all. Not necessary. I just want to say, we've now done this in New York and Miami, so we're snowbirds together.

• 6:24Josh Horowitz?

  We're traveling the globe.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  We're gonna, where are we gonna do it next?

• 6:27Josh Horowitz?

  Nice, south of France.

• 6:29Speaker 02

  That'd be great. I would love that.

• 6:31Josh Horowitz?

  I want to start by saying, first, a big thank you from myself to the Miami Film Festival. This is my second year taping a live Happy, Sad, Confused event here. And you guys have been so welcoming. And I'm so thrilled to do this with Matt, who was, you were actually one of the very first guests on the podcast over 10 years ago. So it's a real full circle moment and it's great to see you get your justified awards for your work.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  Same to you, my friend. It's been so nice to watch you grow and shine over the years and just watch your podcast just take off. You're amazing at what you do. So.

• 6:59Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you.

• 6:59Speaker 02

  Well deserved.

• 7:00Josh Horowitz?

  We're still doing it.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Do you want my Vanguard Award?

• 7:02Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 7:04Josh Horowitz?

  Can we split it in half? So, I love it. I was gonna ask you about your connections to Miami. I had no idea before you accepted the speech how important a town this is. Have you ever actually?

• 7:14Speaker 02

  Well, South Florida. My mom is from north of here. But yeah, so I've been coming to South Florida my whole life.

• 7:19Josh Horowitz?

  And you've shot at least some of Magic Mike in Florida. I don't think in Miami, right?

• 7:24Speaker 02

  Yes, Tampa. Tampa.

• 7:26Josh Horowitz?

  Fond memories of shooting in Florida for Magic Mike?

• 7:28Speaker 02

  Ebor City, amazing. Yeah. It was incredible. I mean, it was kind of Fast and Furious, the way Steven likes to shoot. But yeah, it was incredible.

• 7:38Josh Horowitz?

  That's the name drop. Steven Soderbergh, by the way. Come on. Steven, as in Steven Soderbergh.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  Steven Soderbergh, sorry. Sorry about that. Stevie. No, I, we actually had the most, I had the most epic karaoke night of my life. The night in Ebor City, the night we wrapped the first Magic Mike. It was Joe Manganiello and I. We went and I don't know how I got the gall to do this. Maybe I had one too many vodka sodas. But I did Blaze of Glory, which is the Bon Jovi song from the Young Guns 2 soundtrack.

• 8:08Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, I know.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  I know, you know, just for those of you out there who don't. And we did that. And I think everybody, if you get through a Bon Jovi song, everybody in the place gets free drinks. So they were just loving that. And then Joe got up and did Kiss by Prince. And I've known Joe since we were 18.

• 8:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 8:27Speaker 02

  And he's been hiding this falsetto from me his whole life. It was, it brought the house down.

• 8:33Josh Horowitz?

  You want to know something very funny? I texted Joe for some memories of you.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  No way.

• 8:38Josh Horowitz?

  And he brought up that exact same story.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  No way.

• 8:41Josh Horowitz?

  He said, "Ask him about the karaoke night, the free drinks, John Bon Jovi."

• 8:44Speaker 02

  We've made some memories together. Truly, truly.

• 8:48Josh Horowitz?

  We'll get to more Magic Mike and other things in the career. But I want to start by talking about this great Apple TV film from the brilliant Jonah Hill outcome, written and directed by Jonah. You, Keanu Reeves, Cameron Diaz. This is a good phone call to get, I would expect, from Jonah Hill. Yes?

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Well, I auditioned. I heard about the project. I read the script. I loved it. And they said, "Can you come in and read with Jonah?" And, uh, which I always like to do, honestly. For me, I, there's nothing scarier than showing up on an offer on the first day of a big movie and going, "Oh, my gosh, am I doing the right thing tonally?" "Is this what, I don't want, you know, are you working out the modulation on the day?" And, um, so we had this amazing experience, um, and I got the, a sense of what his process was like as a director, and thankfully went well, and he called Bradley Cooper, and Bradley Cooper put in a good word for me, and, um, so yeah, then I got that call, and it was a, it was a great call to get. I mean, these are people who are so formative to my film-going experience. Not that they're that much older than me.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  They both look younger than me, but they, um, you know, and Jonah, I, I just, you know, have seen everything they've ever done for the most part, so. No, I, I totally relate. We're about the same age, and yeah, I mean, growing up, Keanu was the man, Cameron was the woman. Still is. What were the meaningful films, respectively, that made an impact on you from that? Um, well, Keanu, we'd have to start with Bill and Ted's. Yeah, yeah. Cause that was just like at the perfect age for Bill and Ted's to come out. Yeah. Uh, and then obviously, we all followed him to Point Break and Parenthood and Dracula and everything else he did, and then Speed and, um, The Matrix was, I, so when The Matrix came out, I was living in Ireland at the time.

• 10:32Speaker 02

  And I think literally the only two movies you could see in Ireland at the time, and I was living in Galway, which is a smaller town, it's not like a multiplex. Right. So they basically run the same movies all summer, and I, it was, um, The Matrix, She's All That, and I wanna say The Wind That Shakes The Barley. That classic triple feature. I think, I think I saw The Matrix ten times in the theater. Yeah. Um, because, why wouldn't you? That's what, I, I saw everything else, and I loved everything else too, but that was really iconic for me. And he's just such a great guy, and, um, everything you hear about him is true. He is one of the nicest people. He's so considerate, he's so genteel.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  He and Cameron both are just such incredible examples, uh, and I'll get to her movies too if you want, but, um, they're just both such incredible examples of how to maintain your humanity. Yeah. In this business, and... No matter how successful you are, what mantle you wear, how to just be a relatable, kind, generous of spirit human.

• 11:37Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny, because I'm also thinking, and you're very, very funny in this movie, and it's no surprise to me, because Matt Bomer stealthily, or not so stealthily, carved out a really great comedy career, and it's almost annoying. I just did a conversation with Jon Hamm. It's like, people like you and Jon Hamm should not be this funny. Come on, guys, give us all a break.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  He is phenomenal in everything he does.

• 11:58Josh Horowitz?

  But you did do some studying early on with The Groundlings, correct me if I'm wrong, so comedy is clearly something that's always been important to you, something you've taken pride in?

• 12:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, my mom can attest, I used to only do more humorous things, and then I started getting more into drama when I was in high school and things. And I learned acting through improv initially, and even at drama school, our first classes were Viola Spolone classes, which are improv-based training. And then I was, you know, kind of a gigging actor in L.A. in my twenties, and I was like, I need someone to just shake things up and just remind me how to be spontaneous and present. And so I auditioned for The Groundlings, and I did that. I'd gotten into the second level when I got white collar.

• 12:45Josh Horowitz?

  Nice. So, it's funny, you mentioned people like Keanu and Cameron, kind of setting the tone. Because I was thinking, like, early in your career, what actors did that for you in your early experiences? Like, do you remember the first actor of stature that you worked with that kind of like, set the bar for you in terms of how they conducted themselves on a set?

• 13:06Speaker 02

  I think it's always changing. I think that's one of the really fascinating things about this career, is that, you know, every set is different, every dynamic is different, the social dynamics are different, the processes are different. And I've been so impressed with so many people over the years. There are things I love about the way Channing Tatum is on a set, there are things I love about the way Bradley Cooper is on a set, there are things I love the way about Keanu and Cameron are on a set. It's all different, and part of your job is knowing how to go to each location and find that process and fit into that process. And that's kind of what keeps it alive and fresh. So, Russell Coro, Ryan Gosling, all totally different kind of ways they go about their work, but

• 13:50Speaker 02

  all great and respectful of their peers.

• 13:53Josh Horowitz?

  We'll be right back with more Happy, Sad, Confused.

• 14:00Speaker 04

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• 15:19Josh Horowitz?

  So, since we have the luxury of time, we are going to do a little bit of This Is Your Life, Matt Pomer. We're going to go all the way...

• 15:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no!

• 15:23Josh Horowitz?

  And usually I would ask, like, what you were like as a kid. I feel like I should ask your mom and sister to come up and talk about you, but I won't put them on the spot. But what were you like as a kid? Were you into film, TV, the arts? Like, when did you kind of discover this passion for, for the arts?

• 15:41Speaker 02

  Um, well, I was, I would say the first time I really remember is when my mom took me to E.T. Um, which I guess I I was really young to have seen that in a theater. But um, it was uh, maybe it was when it was re-released or something. And they also used to keep movies out forever.

• 15:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, E.T. was out for like a year.

• 16:02Speaker 02

  But I remember going, oh, my gosh, it's it's a young person like me who has this amazing life on screen, who has problems and struggles and and is real and not just the kid in the background.

• 16:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:13Speaker 02

  Um, so that movie was really formative to me. Um, and then I would just like I had, I was an outdoor kid. My mom knew I had a lot of energy and so she was like, you know, go play outside with your friends and and come back by dinner. And I think that just enabled me to access my imagination in a way that um, maybe I wouldn't have if I just sat and watched a lot of things. I didn't watch that much. I mean, we were kind of limited in what we watched. And then sometimes my dad would be away on a business trip and my mom would let my brother and I go to Blockbuster and pick out movies. And my my my brother just went straight from zero to like Code Red. It was like Faces of Death. And I was like, I was like, you know, what about The Birdcage?

• 17:00Josh Horowitz?

  Well, we all do, we all do have, those are the movies that make the biggest impact when we're kids, when we see like The Exorcist, when you really should not see The Exorcist.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  So we used to love, remember we would sit down and watch horror movies? When it, when like dad was out of town or just whenever? And we would, I remember watching Nightmare on Elm Street in my mom's room with her and being just terrified. Way too young, but I, you know, I'm sure I've done the same thing with our kids at some point.

• 17:26Josh Horowitz?

  So were you, were you performing in school, even like grade school? Was there an outlet for that?

• 17:31Speaker 02

  So the first job I was ever given, I was the narrator in the school play in like the second grade or third grade or something. And I was painfully shy in front of groups. I kind of still am. Sorry to tell you this, this late in the game, people. Um, but um, so I just had to find a way to kind of get through it. But then in um, Sixth grade, I had a great theater arts teacher named Marla Crowe. It was an elective you could take in Texas public school. And she, she taught me that you could make people laugh. She taught me about improv and I remember, I'll never forget, the first skit she did was called Trapped in an Elevator for us. And it was a pantomime about a lady who was trapped in an elevator. And I laughed until I cried and it just made me fall in love with it.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  And she supported me and she encouraged me and she would find funny little humorous pieces and I'd do like prose and poetry pieces and suddenly I would start winning all these trophies at these competitions. My parents had no idea what I was doing. I'd just come home from these speech tournaments with trophies and they'd be like, okay, um, sounds good. But I was also, um, not to backtrack a little bit, but I was really fascinated, I don't know if you remember this, but I, I watched like an episode of Geraldo or some daytime show where there was an actor on it talking about how you needed an agent.

• 18:51Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 18:51Speaker 02

  And I remember asking my mom to help me get an agent. She was like, what are you talking about? Go outside and play. And I'm so grateful because there was that time and then another time when I was trying to get headshot. I mean, I was really trying to make a go of it at a young age and my mom was like, no dude, no, you go live your life. And I'm so grateful that she did because my God, I don't think I'd be here today if I'd started as a kid actor.

• 19:13Josh Horowitz?

  Never take advice from Geraldo. This is just the words of Liston, just generally speaking.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  There's one thing we've learned today.

• 19:21Josh Horowitz?

  There'll be others. Um, by the time you get to high school, does it start to get serious? Like, are you starting to like?

• 19:26Speaker 02

  So I was really serious in middle school and actually, once I got to high school and like, you're really in the throes of adolescence and like figuring out your identity. And also I just wanted to do so many different things socially. It kind of like went to the back burner a little bit and I was doing like student council and Latin club and like anything I could join, I was basically there for. And, um, and then I started doing the school plays and musicals and things like that. And I was also playing sports and, um, by the time I got to my senior year, I met this incredible acting teacher. The Alley Theater in Houston is the, is the regional theater there and it's one of the only repertory companies in the entire country. So throughout my high school life, I would go see plays there and there were these iconic

• 20:10Speaker 02

  plays that were happening on Broadway and off Broadway at the time with the same group of actors. So I got to watch these actors do completely different roles, play to play, and I was, that was so formative for me to get to see. And then one of them became my acting teacher my senior year, and she got me on audition for Streetcar Named Desire with Michael Wilson, and I got, thankfully got that, and then I left all the other extracurriculars and did that, and then that helped me get a scholarship to school and

• 20:38Josh Horowitz?

  Carnegie Mellon.

• 20:39Speaker 02

  I auditioned for all the conservatories and thankfully Carnegie gave me enough of a scholarship that I could actually go there and, and yeah.

• 20:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we'll get to Carnegie Mellon, but before that, I mentioned you have some contemporaries that I hit up. I hit up Lee Pace. Do you guys know that?

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Oh my gosh.

• 20:57Josh Horowitz?

  They've known each other since you were 13 years old or so?

• 21:00Speaker 02

  He was 13, I was 14.

• 21:01Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what was in the water at the school that produced Lee Pace and Matt Bowman.

• 21:06Speaker 02

  I always say it like this, I've known Lee Pace since he was shorter than me, which is saying a lot. He's like seven foot nine, so, he's like 6'5", so.

• 21:13Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  Um, so, yeah.

• 21:15Josh Horowitz?

  I asked Lee what he remembers of you in, in high school.

• 21:18Speaker 02

  I'm terrified of this answer.

• 21:19Josh Horowitz?

  I'm gonna give you the verbatim response.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 21:22Josh Horowitz?

  It's all good. Matt, what a great guy. When we were in high school, in a high school production of Oliver together, I was 15, Matt 16, Matt played Bill Siles, Liz Gardello and I played the old undertakers. At the end of the show, we would drag his dead body off the stage for the curtain call. We did everything we could to make him break, tickle him, whisper dirty nothings into his ear, fart, he never once broke. Still as a rock, a pro even then.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  When I tell you that the two of them used every color in the Ben Nye High School makeup kit for their old age makeup as the undertakers, I mean, they were gonna make the most out of those roles, and they would just sit there as I was laying prone and dead and do the improv, in character by the way, with each other, and just try so hard to make me laugh, and then the second I was offstage, I would just fall out, because they're brilliant, so.

• 22:17Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Okay, so Carnegie Mellon, I mean, we're gonna name drop a lot more, but you have this amazing company of actors you came up with in Carnegie Mellon, including Joe Manganiello, Josh Gad, Leslie Odom Jr.

• 22:30Josh Horowitz?

  Did you find like your-

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Pablo, Pablo Schreiber was in my class, a bunch of, uh, Patrick Wilson had just left.

• 22:35Josh Horowitz?

  Zach Quinto?

• 22:36Speaker 02

  Zachary Quinto was a year ahead of me.

• 22:39Josh Horowitz?

  So was there a sense like, oh, I have found my tribe, as it were, like, this is, this is real, this is getting real?

• 22:45Speaker 02

  I felt that from day one.

• 22:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Speaker 02

  I, I was like, I had landed in Shangri-La. And it was so nice, because I think I'd spread myself so thin in high school, just trying to do a little bit of everything. And it was so nice to just have full permission to just be focused on this one thing that I loved. And to actually learn a technique of how to do it. I had no technique, I was just going on instinct at the time. And, um, so to, to be in a space like that with peers who were as fascinated by it as I was, was just, it was the best experience in my life. I just dove in.

• 23:17Josh Horowitz?

  I swear I did some of my own work tonight, but Joe Manganiello sent so many questions for you. I've got a few more. He wanted to know what your CMU animal project was. Do you remember that?

• 23:28Speaker 02

  My CMU animal proj- oh, my gosh. Oh, my animal project, oh, sorry, I was thinking of a different one, the character say. No, so, um, one of the things you have to do at Carnegie Mellon is you have to choose an animal. And then you have to come in and behave as that animal in front of the whole class. And do all kinds of things and like, we had, we had a substitute teacher that, um, semester, because one of our faculty was working professionally on something else. And she was a little bit out there. And she would kind of navigate us through this, and I remember her, I was a peacock. You had to go to the zoo and choose an animal and then bring it back to class and show everybody.

• 24:06Speaker 02

  And we did like a zoo project where some of the students were people at the zoo and everybody else were the animals behaving as themselves at the zoo. And she was like, Matt, I want you up on stage alone. She was like, I, I need you to really know what it is to feel a need. You are a peacock in heat.

• 24:25Speaker 02

  Now, I'd done my peacock research. I had read everything about it. I'd never seen a peacock in heat. All I knew was that they let out a sharp and shrill cry. And fluffed out those feathers, baby. And I screamed until my voice bled. And I was in tears. And part of it was because I was just going for it and part of it is because I was mortified to be doing this in front of my friends. And I left the stage and she went, "Now, you know what it is to have a need." And I was like, "Okay."

• 25:01Josh Horowitz?

  And that peacock in heat went something like...

• 25:05Speaker 02

  I'd have to put this microphone far, far away.

• 25:09Josh Horowitz?

  So Joel also said that you used to walk the streets of Pittsburgh, like preparing for your characters, that like you would really... I mean, obviously you were taking it seriously, but like clearly, you kind of alluded to this, like you dove all the way in, like you were luxurating in reading and talking about acting, etc. Like was, at that time, was theater the goal? Like what were you thinking?

• 25:34Speaker 02

  I only ever thought I was going to do theater. And can I tell you something? I still walk the streets as a character. And I love when I'm on location. Because like one of the last things I do, and I try not to go, I'm not like in full like hair and makeup out in the world doing stuff, but I'll take like little habits or voice or whatever and I'll take it out into the world and see how it works out in the world. But yeah, what was your question?

• 25:59Josh Horowitz?

  I'm happy to go down that path more because I'm fascinated.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  We don't need to go any further. These people are all terrified.

• 26:04Josh Horowitz?

  Theater as a goal, was theater...

• 26:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, I only ever thought I was going to do theater. Truly, that's all I ever thought I was gonna do. I thought I might, because I was, I knew I was going to New York when I graduated. Actually, the first time, you know, you do this thing called leagues, it might be, or showcase, I don't know what it's called now. It's been a little while. But you go and perform for agents, and I did it in New York and LA. And I got a good response in LA. And it was the first time I'd ever been in all that smog and everything. I completely lost my voice. So the people, they were like casting a role on that 70's show and they'd brought me in. And that was like a big show at the time. And I literally had no voice. And I was like, "This is a sign that I'm just supposed to go to New York."

• 26:47Speaker 02

  And I went to New York and the only thing you could be on in New York was a soap opera. Law and Order, and there was like one season of The Education of Max Bickford.

• 26:57Josh Horowitz?

  I remember that show.

• 26:58Speaker 02

  And Ed.

• 26:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  That was it. That was like all that shot in New York. So maybe one other about all the like, um, paramedics and police and.

• 27:07Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 27:08Speaker 02

  Uh, I can't remember what it's called.

• 27:10Josh Horowitz?

  Um, The Education of Max Bickford Bowl is very epic.

• 27:13Speaker 02

  I was like, maybe I'll score a guest spot on Law and Order SVU. You know, like, that was like dreaming for me, you know?

• 27:19Josh Horowitz?

  And, and you end up on soap, which like, it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, at the time, like, you know, you're coming out of Carnegie Mellon. You have some preconceived notions about soap actors, soap acting. What was your attitude like day one, walking onto the set of like Guiding Light?

• 27:34Speaker 02

  So right before I graduated, I got the very first workshop of Spring Awakening, um, which was super cool. It was like all the way back when Duncan Cheek was like strumming it out on his guitar as we were going, going like, no, that's an A minor. Try that. It was like that rough.

• 27:47Josh Horowitz?

  Wow.

• 27:47Speaker 02

  But it was so cool. It was at Sundance Theatre Lab. I got to meet all my heroes, like all these icons of theatre were there. And you're just like having lunch and dinner in the communal, you know, cafeteria space every day. It was unbelievable. And that director was also doing a musical called Thoroughly Modern Millie, which he also cast me in, thankfully. But, um, we were waiting on our house. On Broadway, you get the producers who are gonna do it. And then you have to wait your turn until a house that you want opens up before you go into a Broadway house. You don't just go onto Broadway. So sometimes it can take a few months. Sometimes it can take a while. And for us, because of nine 11, it took forever.

• 28:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:25Speaker 02

  And so I got laid off. I was a bellman at the Hudson Hotel in New York on 58th. Remember that?

• 28:31Josh Horowitz?

  Mm-hmm.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  It was an Ian Schreger joint. It was on and popping back in the day. But, um.

• 28:36Josh Horowitz?

  Good times.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Just saying on and popping should date me enough already. But, um, uh, so I was there and I, I got laid off because they'd laid everybody off in order of seniority. And nobody was coming to New York at the time.

• 28:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:47Speaker 02

  And I got this call, like, do you wanna audition? I'd done two episodes on All My Children with Susan Lucci, who's in Outcome. Um, who I got to just come full circle with because she had spoken at Carnegie Mellon. I'm sorry, I go on tangents. I'm so sorry.

• 29:00Josh Horowitz?

  No, this is great.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  She'd spoken at Carnegie Mellon and three months later I was on set with her. She was the first person on camera I worked with, doing two episodes, playing her daughter's ex lesbian lover's new fiance.

• 29:10Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 29:12Speaker 02

  You remember, classic, yeah. So, we, um, I had had a couple of days on it, so I had a little bit of a sense of what it was. And they were like, "Do you want to come and audition for like a, like a real role on the show?" And I thought, "I don't know, man." And it ended up being the best choice I ever made, because I was terrified to be on camera. I had no idea, at the time, we didn't have a camera study class at school. So this is perfect for you, this is teaching you. This is before everybody had a camera on their phone, like, you're learning on the fly. It was like going, it was like getting paid to go to grad school. Um, you know, there were times I was doing like thirty, forty pages a day with one take, and doing the craziest circumstances you've ever seen. And by the end, they could be like, "Okay, Matt, we don't have time to rehearse a scene."

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Like, "Come down here, cry out of your downstage eye on camera two if you can on this line, that'd be amazing." "Okay, and five, four, three." And you have to be able to do it, it's just like getting shot out of a cannon, so, um, it makes you make choices really quickly. Can you sum up the arc of Ben Reed in sixty seconds for us? Do you really want to hear it? Yeah. Okay, I'll try to remember, it's been a minute. He's a trust fund baby who bet his fraternity brothers that he could be the first to deflower the town virgin, who was like the young female heroine on the show. Um, but then, of course, he falls in love with her. But then she finds out about his attempt to deflower her, and so she dumps him. Then he falls in love with this other girl, but then he loses his trust fund.

• 30:38Speaker 02

  So he turns to the only life that one can, which is to become a male sex worker. And, um, all my clients were like women in their forties. I was like twenty-two, like, meet them at six AM and be, you know, doing intimacy scenes by nine. Um, and then, so then he goes crazy, because the girl, his girlfriend finds out that he was being a sex, he's a sex worker. And so she dumps him, he goes crazy, um, kills four people, then kidnaps her to a remote cabin in the woods where he holds her hostage with a syringe full of insulin. Right. And then, when he gets busted, he injects himself with the, but then hangs on one extra day in the hospital to apologize for all his sins.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  I told the writers when I got there, I was like, "Look, I'm not gonna be here, I don't know if I'll be here that long, so give me the craziest shit you've ever given anybody." And they obliged me.

• 31:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  But my favorite thing was, after all that, I remember I was like in my dying makeup, walking off the soundstage, and a writer comes up to me and goes, "If you ever wanna come back, we've got it figured out." And I was like, "Oh, that's so nice of you." I don't even wanna know what it is, 'cause whatever I'm gonna come up with in my head is so much, you know, I'll have a lot of time to think about it.

• 31:56Josh Horowitz?

  You'll come back as a peacock in heat, perhaps, reincarnated.

• 31:59Speaker 02

  I was like, "I know we've done just about everything in my journey on this show, but you haven't seen my peacock in heat."

• 32:06Josh Horowitz?

  So then there's this crazy story, I don't know if you're sick of telling this story, but it does coincide in a fascinating way, where this guy was almost Superman. Like, you really were almost, you were cast, essentially, as I understand it, or very close to being cast.

• 32:18Speaker 02

  I was such an unknown at the time, it's so hard to know. I mean, I, you know, went in on a cattle call, then I got a phone call from the casting people, then I went and met with a director and read with an actress, then I went back in and screen tested in the suit and signed the contract, you know, all that stuff that you do where it's like, "Okay, this is the next step, you're doing the role."

• 32:37Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:38Speaker 02

  And I know that I was the director's choice for the role, and then, wah-wah, it happens.

• 32:45Josh Horowitz?

  So that iteration, for those that don't know, was never made. This was a JJ from script.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:49Josh Horowitz?

  But, I mean, that's-

• 32:51Speaker 02

  It was a great script.

• 32:52Josh Horowitz?

  I've heard about this.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  It was called flyby, and it was more about him when he was younger. He was like, he was like a college student trying to figure out, like, what it is to have all these powers and how to try to be a normal person and Superman at the same time. And JJ just crushed it with the script.

• 33:05Josh Horowitz?

  Like, do you remember, like, what your take was in the audition, or what you felt you brought to it?

• 33:10Speaker 02

  Well, at the time, so I was using my money that I made from the soap opera to study with this amazing guy called Ron Van Lu, who was the head, he's been the head of Yale Graduate Acting Program, NYU Graduate Acting Program. He's like one of the best acting teachers in the world. And so, I was using my paycheck from the soap opera to take acting class with him, and I was just trying to take all this great knowledge he was imparting to me and just bring it into, into that. But I remember it feeling just especially with the director who was working on the project. He liked it very spontaneous and fresh and different every time and no two things the same. And he liked to direct from the monitor a lot and kind of go see how you did that gesture. Do more like that. That's the energy where it like that kind of thing. So.

• 33:52Josh Horowitz?

  It must have been a head trip though, because like you, I would imagine you start to plan like your life. You're like imagining like, oh, the next five years I'm going to be doing.

• 34:01Speaker 02

  It was all so surreal to be going from a total cattle call to that. And suddenly everybody in LA wants to meet you. And all I really remember is playing Lose Yourself by Eminem in my headphones before every audition. And just trying to stay in the mindset of somehow that I could believe that this could be real.

• 34:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  More Happy, Sad, Confused coming up.

• 34:28Speaker 04

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• 34:57Speaker 06

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• 35:42Speaker 06

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• 35:59Josh Horowitz?

  So we're gonna jump ahead a bit. I mean, you're getting work. You're consistently working. You're doing some different TV shows. But, I mean, the big game changer we should talk about is White Collar, obviously. White Collar, yes. Was an amazing role, a fantastic show. Which, talk about unusual casting processes. Like, I mean, they were not looking for your type. Like, they were looking for an older British actor at the time, as I understand it?

• 36:24Speaker 02

  I think, I think probably Bonnie Hammer, who's my friend now, at the time, had Remington Steele in her mind.

• 36:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 36:33Speaker 02

  So I think she wanted like, someone who was British and in their 40s. And I was like, 29 and not British. So, I had a hill to climb. And, but, the creator Jeff Easton, I love him and thank God for him, he just believed in me from day one. And, um, he was like, "I got your back on this. Like, you are the guy." And the casting folks, Gail Pillsbury, um, she had, I'd gone in for her on a bunch of things that I'd gotten close on, and she was really in my corner. And, so I think I ended, I think I had tested for it twice. Um, I tested for it once, and I was his choice, but they were like, "No, we want someone who's older." And then, uh, they were like, "We'll give him one more chance at it." And I had to test against a whole other round of actors. So I think I tested against like, 10 people total.

• 37:18Josh Horowitz?

  Testing means you've auditioned for it multiple times, and the network and the studio have signed off on like, 5 people usually. I don't know if it even still works this way. But to come in, in front of a room of suits, and like, perform the scenes for them. And by the time you're on set, you're making the show, did you immediately realize how delicious an opportunity this was, this character, this suave con man, could be for you? I mean...

• 37:40Speaker 02

  I realized it the second I met Tim Dekay.

• 37:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  Uh, because I met him, I had been cast in the role, and he came in to audition. And he had a very improvisational quality to him. And he understood who his character was supposed to be in opposition to my character. And his talent was so great that I understood my role better because of him. And I remember him leaving the room and me going, that's the guy. That's him. And if we can do that on camera, like, we're gonna have a good show.

• 38:11Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 38:12Speaker 02

  And so I just mentioned that. Not that my word meant anything at the time, but thankfully it all worked out.

• 38:19Josh Horowitz?

  Where the hell are we at with the reboot sequel? It keeps coming up. We keep talking about it. It feels like where there's a will, there's a way or not? What's the status?

• 38:27Speaker 02

  I don't know. You know, I think it's probably public. It's an interesting time in our industry right now where I won't obviously name names, but people who are so far above my pay grade are having a hard time getting anything pushed through the ranks. I think it's just a scary time where the industry is still kind of reeling from the pandemic, the strike, and also how is AI gonna fall into the marketplace? And so things that seem like such a slam dunk are really, really hard to get through the corporate ladder. But we'll see. You know what I thought could be fun, too, is if Tim and I did like a rewatchables podcast together.

• 39:09Josh Horowitz?

  No brainer.

• 39:10Speaker 02

  Not to edge in on your game, Doc.

• 39:13Josh Horowitz?

  There's plenty of room in the podcast field. Do it, do it.

• 39:15Speaker 02

  Would you listen to that? Okay, all right. What are they gonna say? No? Thank you.

• 39:22Josh Horowitz?

  Hard pass. So jumping ahead to like 2012 is an interesting year for a couple of reasons. Professionally, there's Magic Mike, which I want to talk about. It's also the year that you come out publicly in kind of the least like grandiose coming out way, which was clearly like, I mean, I'm sure you thought about different ways to publicly acknowledge your personal life, but it seems like that wasn't... I mean, can you talk a little bit about why you chose to kind of undersell and thank your family in a speech accepting an award in 2012?

• 39:53Speaker 02

  I mean, it had been kind of this long, drawn-out thing where, long before I thought it was even valid for me to do it, because no one had any idea who I was or anything. And then, you know, being offered like the cover of People magazine and stuff like that, which just seemed so sensationalized. So I just thought, well, what's the... How would a normal person... Behave at an award show, they would thank their family.

• 40:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  And I didn't want to sensationalize that. I wanted to make it like everybody else. And so that was, that was kind of our MO.

• 40:22Josh Horowitz?

  Makes sense. So I alluded to, and we talked a little bit about Magic Mike. But people, for context, for folks that don't maybe remember what Magic Mike was at the time. It was a very independent, small movie. It was not going to be a blockbuster.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I literally thought I was doing the girlfriend experience. I thought, I'm doing a small Soderbergh, gritty indie. And then these suits started showing up at the monitor. I had no, I was so green at the time. I was so green at the time that Steven Soderbergh's name was on the camera. Which if you own a camera, they put your name on it. I thought he had helped design that camera. That's why his name was on it. It's very professionally like lasered on. But turns out he did actually help develop some of the technology for it. So it wasn't that far off. But they were all, and I remember asking Channing, and I was like, why, who were all these people who were like coming in? They're watching our dance numbers.

• 41:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  In LA before we came down to Tampa. And they were like, oh, there's a bidding war going on. And my stomach just dropped because I was like, I did not know this many people were going to see me strip.

• 41:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Yeah, when you're rehearsing in your room, when you're thinking about it, like you're not thinking about.

• 41:31Speaker 02

  No, I did not think it was going to be a summer, you know, movie. But hey, thank God, right?

• 41:38Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, it must have felt exposing in every possible way. But I guess you're in it with all these great actors and Soderbergh. So it's like, if I'm not going to trust these guys.

• 41:48Speaker 02

  You're a band of brothers.

• 41:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:50Speaker 02

  And nothing bonds you like having to get down in that thong together.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  And take it all off. I mean, truly, we were real close by the end of that movie. And always will be in some ways, you know? And Steven's such a great director, he's such a pro, he typically only does one take. So you're not like suffering through these things over and over again. He really wanted that spontaneous live quality to the numbers. So we really only did it usually one time.

• 42:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, I'm endlessly fascinated with his process. Like he often operates the camera himself and. By the end of a shoot, he has a cut of the film. He's like editing us. It's just like he is one of one.

• 42:26Speaker 02

  He's one of one. He's a machine. He would actually, when we're doing XXL, that's Magic Mike Part Two for people who don't know it by the Roman numerals. He would like edit the scene. He'd do a rough cut at the end of the day because when you're doing one take a day, you're only working like nine, 10 hours a day. So we'd go back to his hotel room. He'd pour a drink, rough assemble it together with his headphones. It was like watching a savant go. And we'd just, you know, be actors making small talk, you know, bodinage with each other. And then, you know, 30 minutes later, he'd be like, "All right, here's today's scenes." And it was the rough cut of the movie. So that by the time we wrapped the film, we watched a rough cut of the movie.

• 43:11Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy. So we referenced, you referenced the...

• 43:13Speaker 02

  That's not usually the process, sorry. It's usually like a year before you see an assembly of a film together.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  So we referenced your Jon Bon Jovi at the end of shooting karaoke style. Music has recurred throughout your career. You sang in Magic Mike XXL.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:27Josh Horowitz?

  Glee. You were with Kelly O'Hara at the Kennedy Center Honors. I mean, where's the full-on Broadway musical, movie musical? Is it something that feels like an itch that still wants to be scratched to sing?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  Okay, I'm gonna give you a really deep cut that I've never told anyone.

• 43:44Josh Horowitz?

  That's why we're here.

• 43:45Speaker 02

  Josh, because I love you, I'm gonna give you an exclusive that probably zero people will run with. So after Magic Mike XXL, so I recorded, the reason why I sang on the Magic Mike XXL soundtrack is because we were filming the first one. And in between setups of cameras, oftentimes they'll send the actors out, especially in like a group scene like this, to entertain the background artists so that they can, you know, they keep their energy up and they're excited. And Channing had heard me like singing in my trailer or something. And he just put a microphone in my face and was like, "Matt, sing something in front of all these people." And I was like, "What?" And he was like, "I don't know, Jodeci or something." So I sang "Lately" by Stevie Wonder through like Jodeci's cover of it.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  And so he said, "When we're doing the sequel, we knew we wanted this, this, and this, and we knew we wanted you to sing in the sequel." So he recorded a couple of songs for the soundtrack, kind of just on a lark. Although one of them was recorded by Ludwig, who just won his second Oscar. He produced Ludwig Goransson, who just won his second Oscar because he was working with Donald Glover, who was also in XXL. And so that they, I guess they did well on Spotify, which is not something I planned for, but then the folks at Tower Records were like, would you ever want to do like a recorded album?

• 45:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 45:03Speaker 02

  And they were like, do you write music? And I was like, yeah, I wrote music because I was a kid. So I wrote three songs and they were like, we like it. Do you want to do, we're going to set you up with producers. So I started doing that and then I was like, like the deals, the music industry, if you think the, if you think the entertainment acting side of things is crazy, music industry's like, no, no, dog, watch this. Okay. It is some craziness. But I ended up not doing it because people wanted such a big percentage and it was just so complicated between the lawyer, it was too much and I had kids and so, but I ended up recording a couple of songs with Diane Warren.

• 45:38Josh Horowitz?

  Stop it.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  That we recorded.

• 45:40Josh Horowitz?

  Ninety time Oscar nominee.

• 45:42Speaker 02

  Ninety time Oscar, total legend, but I didn't, I knew that if I released them into the world, I was going to have to like go on talk shows and do them and tour around the country with them and do all this stuff. And I was like, you know what? I, I love her music, but if I'm going to do this, it has to come from me. And so we never released it.

• 46:00Josh Horowitz?

  So there is an unreleased.

• 46:02Speaker 02

  There's an unreleased EP.

• 46:03Josh Horowitz?

  Matt Bomer, Diane Warren collab.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Matt Diane. It's rough, it's rough tracks, but yeah.

• 46:09Josh Horowitz?

  The world wants this more than the podcast for my collar, Matt.

• 46:14Speaker 02

  So there was that. And I would love to do a musical, but look, truly doing a show like that eight times a week, you have to be an Olympic athlete and I would need to train for like six months to do that. If it were ever the right thing, I would do it, but.

• 46:28Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing. Okay, there's no segue from a musical to The Normal Heart, but we're going to talk about The Normal Heart, which is important. Yeah. An amazing.

• 46:36Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 46:37Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing piece of work. Obviously, these folks know Larry Kramer's chronicle of the early HIV/AIDS crisis is a seminal piece of work. Something that I think you encountered reading perhaps in high school or college.

• 46:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, high school.

• 46:52Josh Horowitz?

  That must've been meaningful for a thousand reasons when this comes around. Can you talk to us a little bit about the experience of making The Normal Heart?

• 47:01Speaker 02

  Well, like you said, I first, I had first read the piece when I was in high school, literally in the closet, in the closet of the drama room. Yeah. And it just informed me so much about what was going on in the world that I didn't know about, no one around me was really talking about. I was living in suburban Texas. It wasn't something people talked about on a daily basis. And I knew a little bit about Rock Hudson and people like that, but it just... That play, Tony Kushner's plays, Terrence McNally's plays, taught me so much about myself and the world, and who I wanted to be, and who I wanted to meet when I went out in the world, and all those things. And so Larry Kramer was a total icon and hero to me.

• 47:44Speaker 02

  Even though I would have done that, you know, regionally in theater, the fact that I got to do it in a film- Oh, the company of actors. With Mark Ruffalo, and Julia Roberts, and Jim Parsons, and Jonathan Groff, and Taylor Kitsch, all this incredible, incredible group of actors. I hope I didn't leave anybody out. But look, I mean, basically, my life peaked when I got married to Mark Ruffalo by Julia Roberts. I literally had to go, "Where do I go from here?" All my childhood dreams have now come true.

• 48:16Josh Horowitz?

  Another very important piece of work, and I was privileged enough to see you perform this on Broadway within another amazing company of actors, is The Boys in the Band.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  Hey!

• 48:25Josh Horowitz?

  Which, again, fantastic. You, again, Zach Quinto, Jim Parsons, Andrew Rannells, and more. Again, something that must be meaningful for a thousand different reasons. The subject matter, the place that holds in culture, the company of actors, entirely outcast as opposed to the earlier productions. And your Broadway debut, so-

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:47Josh Horowitz?

  Was that a full-circle moment for you, theater kid, finally hitting the great white way?

• 48:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it was always the dream, you know, and it was full circle in so many ways. The fact that I'd known Zachary Quinto since we were 18, and now we were, our dressing rooms were next to each other at the Booth Theatre on Broadway, and I was getting to work on this legendary piece of work that had never been on Broadway before. Mark Crowley's brilliant piece of writing, and working with Joe Mantello, who's just the chef's kiss of theater directors. It was a growing experience, a learning experience, and just beyond surreal, unforgettable. It was a perfect run. I didn't know if anybody was gonna come see it. I was like, maybe people would be like, oh, it's the guy from The Big Bang Theory. Let's go check it out. And we'd have like, you know, a smattering of people in the audience.

• 49:37Speaker 02

  It was sold out immediately and we extended as long as we possibly could. And then that sold out and then it won the Tony. Yeah. I, I, I think this is why I haven't been back on Broadway.

• 49:48Josh Horowitz?

  You set the bar too high.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  It can't ever be that experience again. I remember turning to Joe Mantello and saying that and he was like, it probably won't be this experience.

• 49:57Josh Horowitz?

  You can't go do like Cats now.

• 49:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 50:01Josh Horowitz?

  Um, we have to talk about fellow travelers, which I mean, come on. Yes, give it up. Fellow travelers.

• 50:10Josh Horowitz?

  Hugely celebrated. People were obsessed with this, uh, series and justifiably so. And you were in this pretty early on, as I understand it.

• 50:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:18Josh Horowitz?

  You, you kind of helped will this one into, turning this novel into, into this series.

• 50:24Speaker 02

  Yes. I was, I was really the beneficiary. Like I spoke about in my speech earlier, I got so lucky that Ron Nyswanner just saw me in this role. Robbie Rogers believed in me. I don't know. I had never done anything remotely like this character. So the fact that they saw this in me and believed that I could be a part of this, it still kind of blows my mind. Um, and they called me one day and said, hey, we've got the rights to this book. Uh, do you want to read it? And I, I read it in like three days. It was during the pandemic. And I got back to them immediately. I was like, yes, I have, I have to be a part of this. How can I help you? We pitched it around town and thankfully Showtime bought it. And, um, Ron had a great relationship with Showtime because he wrote on Homeland.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  And, uh, had done Soldier's Girl with Lee, um, for Showtime as well. And so we had a great relationship there. And, um, we had amazing executives who from the get go in the creative process were like, push it farther. Take that. Cause I, I think, you know, some of the stuff could be perceived as really transgressive and like really pushing the envelope. And they were like, no, go farther. Like scare yourself with this. And, uh, to Ron, really. Um, and I have to say, I wasn't sure. It was, it was so hit or miss. It was so, it wouldn't get made today. It wouldn't get greenlit today.

• 51:38Josh Horowitz?

  Really? Why do you say that?

• 51:39Speaker 02

  Well, maybe, you know, you see something like heated rivalry and you think, okay, maybe it could thread the needle. But we're talking about an expensive period piece.

• 51:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 51:46Speaker 02

  Um, it's just a, it's, it's more of a, it's more political, but doesn't have as, quite as happy an ending. So, um, It's just, you know, I don't know that it, I think in the marketplace they would have a harder time getting made for sure, but um we just got really lucky and uh we were so lucky to find Jonathan Bailey um the first time, because you know that that character is written is like a waifish blonde twink, basically, in in the book. And Jonathan is like strapping, handsome, swarthy, like, just, he's the sexiest man alive. Do I need to say anything else? Like, so, but he's such a great actor that immediately when we we screen tested on Zoom

• 52:31Speaker 02

  together, and I was like, oh, this guy is phenomenal. We would be so lucky to have him. And he just, he just brought his A game every day and just made everybody else, including myself, around him so much better every day.

• 52:44Josh Horowitz?

  No, you guys crush it together, and you'll you'll be happy to know Jonathan still has fond feelings for you. Jonathan Bailey uh sent a video.

• 52:51Speaker 02

  You got JB on the phone? Oh, schmepp! Let's see Jonathan Bailey.

• 52:55Speaker 07

  Hello, Matty. It's JB. I'm sending you so much love, as always, and uh congrats on this award. No surprises. Um you are so many people's hero, and definitely mine. And I think, I know fellow travelers will be um one of my proudest and most special um stories, sets, um and partnerships um with you uh of my career. And with that in mind, I've got a couple of questions. One is about focus. You have got this unbelievable ability to click in, and I'm thinking about uh 21-hour filming days and me getting the giggles um

• 53:38Speaker 07

  lying in bed in a log cabin. And you, um, you know, I felt so so held by, I mean.

• 53:48Speaker 07

  Sometimes literally held, but I mean, um, I mean, uh, in terms of craft and sort of spiritually and technically held. And, um, is that focus that you have, is that something you've had to work on? And what, how does your brain, how is your brain? And specifically, um, under sort of creative pressure? Um, cause you're super bright and super funny. And I know it's quick, it must be. Um, and number two, it was you attaching to fellow travelers, Ron's amazing, um, idea and adaptation of the book, um, that made it happen. It was your attachment, your clout. And I would love to know, is there any stories you haven't seen or anything you're curious about that, um, that we are going to get to see? Um, because we're ready and we'll

• 54:32Speaker 07

  follow you wherever you go, because you're the best. Um, yeah, sending loads of love and hello, Josh, and hello, everyone. And congrats again. Bye bye.

• 54:44Speaker 02

  I love you JB. I mean, if that ain't class, what is?

• 54:51Josh Horowitz?

  He's alright.

• 54:52Speaker 02

  What a great dude. Great guy.

• 54:56Josh Horowitz?

  So again, helping me with the questions, focus and also other kind of passion projects like fellow travelers.

• 55:02Speaker 02

  You're not even making me realize it all goes back to, uh, Oliver and my, and my focus when they were trying to make me laugh while dragging me offstage when I was dead. My character was dead. Um, uh, no, you know what? The, the truth is, uh, it's a couple of things. I think I, I, my attention can go in so many different directions that I almost have to counteract that when I'm on set and just go fully into focusing on one thing and putting all those multiple channels into just one thing. I lead a very monastic life when I'm filming and I just put all my ADHD into one place and, um, just channel it all into that. And, um, also I, I feel like, um, if you're lucky enough to have like a great role like that where

• 55:47Speaker 02

  you're in pretty much every day. There was this essence and this spirit of the piece that's happening and that's alive on the set, that's all happening in real time, that you're kind of, and Jonathan did this too, but you're like the torchbearer of that, and you're like carrying that with you through the piece, because really, when you're doing eight hours of something, you're the only people who are carrying it, episode to episode, because you have different directors usually, it'd be very hard to direct all eight hours. And so, that energy, kind of, with a character like that, just kind of takes over in a way, and it's not even like a, "Oh, I'm a method actor" kind of thing, it's in your subconscious so deeply.

• 56:27Josh Horowitz?

  And in terms of, is there another kind of passion project that you want to help bring into the universe, like fellow travelers?

• 56:34Speaker 02

  There's a really cool play that I've been workshopping with Michael Arden, who's amazing, he's like a two-time Tony-winning director, that was off-Broadway in 2008, that we're hoping to bring to New York, that would be really, really cool. There's this movie, this Australian film that I'm trying to get made, we almost did it a couple months ago, and there was some weird financing stuff, but that'd be really fun. And then I'd love to see something that explored gay marriage in an interesting way. I just haven't seen something that like, and I'm sure it's out there, and I apologize if you made something beautiful that I didn't see, but yeah, I don't know, I feel like it's

• 57:16Speaker 02

  a new thing, and it's, you know, it's not a total, it is heteronormative, but it's also its own thing, you know? And so, I don't know, I just feel like a really great writer could get in there and just find all of the intricacies of it all.

• 57:32Josh Horowitz?

  What do you make of, like, you mentioned like heated rivalry, the centering of the culture, like that being omnipresent, it was not a gay show, it was a show that everybody...

• 57:41Speaker 02

  The show!

• 57:41Josh Horowitz?

  The show, everybody needed to see and watch.

• 57:44Speaker 02

  Well, first of all, it's so well-deserved.

• 57:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 02

  They are such brilliant actors. And the direction Jacob does Tierney does not get, he gets great props, but he is a phenomenal talent. Uh, the fact that he made that show look as expensive as it does and just the quality of it all around. And that he leaves the camera on actors' faces, great actors, and lets them have these beautiful interior moments. That's so atypical. That's why I was so grateful to get to work with Bradley Cooper. Cause everybody is just so fascinated with cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting. And, and if you really let the camera live in a moment with an actor, I mean, that's what has really transported me as an audience member. So, um, well deserved and something, I, I don't know. Did, did you ever think you'd see it in your lifetime?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know if I did, but I'm so glad it's here and may it last for many, many more seasons. And congratulations to all involved, truly.

• 58:37Josh Horowitz?

  Um, the time has flown by, but we do have time to end with the Happy Second Fuse profoundly random questions for you, Matt. Are you ready?

• 58:44Speaker 02

  The what?

• 58:44Josh Horowitz?

  Profoundly random questions.

• 58:46Speaker 02

  Profoundly random questions, baby.

• 58:47Josh Horowitz?

  All right, here we go. Dogs or cats?

• 58:53Speaker 02

  You gotta start with the hardest one?

• 58:56Josh Horowitz?

  Some, some actors have like dogs?

• 58:58Speaker 02

  Dogs, yeah.

• 59:00Josh Horowitz?

  Jessie Buckley almost got herself canceled by going in on hating cats on a recent.

• 59:04Speaker 02

  Oh, I love cats.

• 59:05Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, good.

• 59:06Speaker 02

  Oh, I love cats. I actually think there's a reason why James Dean studied cats and was surrounding himself with cats. There's something so, they contain so many multitudes, but they're so relaxed at the same time and complicated in their own world.

• 59:21Josh Horowitz?

  Don't betray your peacock love, man. Come on.

• 59:24Speaker 02

  That wasn't one of the options.

• 59:26Josh Horowitz?

  Gonna adjust it. Dogs, cats or peacocks going forward. What do you collect, if anything?

• 59:31Speaker 02

  Dog, cats, dogs, cats or peacocks in heat. Um, what do I collect?

• 59:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, what do you collect?

• 59:36Speaker 02

  Oh, man. Um, what do I collect?

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Oh, sea glass. I love sea glass.

• 59:43Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 59:44Speaker 02

  Um, like, when I find a cool piece of sea glass, you would think I found a buried treasure. It's like, so irrational and so not cool. I'm like, "I got a blue one! It comes in blue!" Like, it's so embarrassing. Um, so yeah, I have a jar of it at home that I've collected from beaches all over the world.

• 1:00:02Josh Horowitz?

  Nice.

• 1:00:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:03Josh Horowitz?

  Uh, favorite video game of all time? Did you ever play a game growing up, anything?

• 1:00:08Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, there are a lot of them.

• 1:00:10Josh Horowitz?

  You're talking about of all time? Like, what did I log the most hours on?

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  Okay, this is, your son would never guess this because it's pretty butch.

• 1:00:20Speaker 02

  Tecmo Bowl.

• 1:00:21Josh Horowitz?

  Wow!

• 1:00:22Speaker 02

  I love Tecmo Bowl. I love football.

• 1:00:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 02

  I, you know, I was born into it.

• 1:00:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  Loved the sport. And that was a great game. My Tyson's Punch-Out!, I'm really dating myself now. Uh, newer games? Oh, I love a lot of the new independent games. I love, um, the, like, Metroidvania one. What's it called? Silk Song is really cool. Hades is really cool. Hades 2.

• 1:00:48Josh Horowitz?

  You're impressing all of us right now.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  Well, I had to counteract Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!

• 1:00:54Josh Horowitz?

  Wait, wait, wait, wait.

• 1:00:55Speaker 02

  I had to counterbalance that.

• 1:00:57Josh Horowitz?

  Um, this is the Dakota Johnson Memorial question. She asked me this. I ask everybody, "Would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?"

• 1:01:08Josh Horowitz?

  Sorry, Mom, I, I apologize.

• 1:01:09Speaker 02

  You know what? I would say a mouthful because I just feel like it'd be easier to get them out.

• 1:01:14Josh Horowitz?

  Interesting.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  You know?

• 1:01:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. You're in the minority, just so you know.

• 1:01:18Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:01:18Josh Horowitz?

  Ninety percent of folks go with the butt, but...

• 1:01:21Speaker 02

  But what if it's just stuck up there, stinging you, and you can't do anything about it?

• 1:01:25Josh Horowitz?

  You make a fair point. I'm not arguing. What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 1:01:31Speaker 02

  It is a picture of the, uh, the bay outside of Big Sur, um, with otters in the ocean.

• 1:01:40Speaker 02

  Thanks. Appreciate that. If you don't think I found some sea glass on that beach, you're wrong.

• 1:01:49Josh Horowitz?

  Where did it all go? In Matt's trunk of his car.

• 1:01:54Josh Horowitz?

  The last actor you were mistaken for?

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Okay, my sister thought I was Henry Cavill.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  First of all, I wish. But secondly, I had a junket day yesterday and my sister, my sister, my lovely, beautiful, amazing sister Megan and my mom are here today. In case they didn't hear that from the speech earlier. I don't know if you're including that on the podcast, please don't.

• 1:02:20Speaker 02

  Anyway, they're here supporting me and my sister went by a billboard and she was like, Matt, since when are you on a watch campaign? Now, my sister is an incredibly intelligent person and very perceptive. She was in the back of a car going very fast.

• 1:02:31Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 1:02:32Speaker 02

  But still, she thought I was Henry Cavill. And then I was at the junket and somebody else was like, oh, I feel like I've already seen you today because I saw you on the billboard coming in here. First of all, I wish.

• 1:02:44Speaker 02

  I'm just gonna leave it at I wish.

• 1:02:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, this is good company to be in.

• 1:02:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:48Josh Horowitz?

  What's the worst noted director has ever given you?

• 1:02:58Speaker 02

  I feel like I've buried this to protect myself going forward.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  You know what? It's when it has nothing to do with the scene or the life of the scene or even the rhythm. I understand if somebody's like, there's a great thing that Paul Newman said because somebody asked him to go faster, which is, can be a really irritating note. But it usually means, like he said, that the stakes aren't high enough. You have to make the stakes higher for the character. So there's always usually some technical way to get into a note like that. It's anything that makes you self-conscious or that isn't about the scene or is about how you look. Or a face you made or hey, when you cry, you blinked a lot. And you're like, dude, I'm up here bearing my soul for you.

• 1:03:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:03:48Speaker 02

  Like, I don't care how I look right now. I wouldn't be doing this for millions of strangers if what I cared about now. Our job is to get up in front of you and get ugly and try to be human in front of you. That's what we're getting paid to do.

• 1:04:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:00Speaker 02

  So, that kind of note doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't confront somebody when I get that. I just nod and then forget it immediately and just go back to the scene, but.

• 1:04:10Josh Horowitz?

  No, you're trying to forget all of that and just be in the moment.

• 1:04:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:14Josh Horowitz?

  And just.

• 1:04:14Speaker 02

  You're just trying to do the antithesis of that.

• 1:04:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 1:04:16Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, and in the spirit of happy, sad, confused, who's an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Oh, who's an actor? We can edit this pause, right? Who always ma- Steve Carell.

• 1:04:31Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, great.

• 1:04:32Speaker 02

  Steve Carell. What a treasure. I, you know, obviously, he'd had an extensive, can I tell you a funny Steve Carell story?

• 1:04:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, we're here.

• 1:04:41Speaker 02

  I'll tell you two things. I'm sorry if I'm going overtime, just cut this out. So, I saw him in the FedEx commercials. Do you remember when he was in these FedEx commercials before he became famous?

• 1:04:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:04:52Speaker 02

  Now, he had already been in Second City and Chicago and was like a big legend in Second City, but we didn't know that at home and like, but I was, I think I was still living in Houston and I was like, that guy is a star. He is amazing. He should be a movie star. I can't believe he's doing a FedEx commercial.

• 1:05:09Speaker 02

  So, cuts a years later, it's like after the second season of White Collar, I'm finally like getting meetings on films and things like that. And I get this call like, hey, we're meeting everybody, we're meeting all these actors to, um,

• 1:05:22Speaker 02

  just take a meeting for this new movie Valentine's Day. Do you remember that movie?

• 1:05:26Josh Horowitz?

  Yes.

• 1:05:26Speaker 02

  Remember when they used to do like movies around like holidays?

• 1:05:29Josh Horowitz?

  Arbor Day, the movie. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:05:30Speaker 02

  Exactly. Three callbacks for Arbor Day.

• 1:05:34Josh Horowitz?

  So close.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  My Latin, I was in Latin Club, but it wasn't good enough.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  Anyway, I'm in the, I'm in the elevator with Steve Carell. And I cannot believe it. I don't say anything. I try not to bother people, especially because I was like, he must have the same meeting I have. And so, we go to the front desk. He was, he'd done like the forty year old version. He was a huge star. And they were like, they were like, what are you here for? And I was like, I think I'm going to the same place he is. And they were like, no.

• 1:06:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, no. He's like here to talk about four projects that we've already greenlit. You're here to have a loose meeting about our seventeenth holiday movie.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  You're over in that room. Anyway, sorry Steve. I am sorry that I ever estimated that I would be in your company, but I love you.

• 1:06:23Josh Horowitz?

  What's a movie that makes you sad?

• 1:06:26Speaker 02

  Ooh, um, oh my gosh, Dead Poets Society. Yeah.

• 1:06:32Josh Horowitz?

  That's good one. And finally, a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 1:06:37Speaker 02

  Food that makes me confused? Oh, I love it. All food. I love all food. Um, food that makes me confused. Honestly, you know what? When I'm in my monastic filming mode, I do try to avoid gluten.

• 1:06:54Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 1:06:55Speaker 02

  And here's my thing, y'all. Not everything needs to be gluten-free.

• 1:07:01Speaker 02

  We appreciate the effort.

• 1:07:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:04Speaker 02

  We're glad you're here with us. We continue, we encourage you to continue on your research.

• 1:07:09Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  But when it's grainy and gritty, and I feel like I just ate a handful of sand,

• 1:07:16Speaker 02

  I'd like you to go back to the kitchen and try again.

• 1:07:22Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 1:07:27Josh Horowitz?

  We're renaming the podcast Matt Bomer's Hot Takes, and that's the premiere episode.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  The Gluten Episode.

• 1:07:35Josh Horowitz?

  Exactly. We lost our sponsorship from the Gluten Lobby. Congratulations on this award. Well deserved, Matt.

• 1:07:43Speaker 02

  It's a real honor.

• 1:07:45Josh Horowitz?

  I wanted to say thank you again to the Miami Film Festival for hosting us. Thank you for coming out. Thank you to Matt's family for coming out. And most of all, thank you to Matt Bomer for sharing his time with us today.

• 1:07:55Speaker 02

  Thanks, everybody. Love you all. Thank you so much.

• 1:08:00Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't prepared to do this, but Josh.

• 1:08:18Speaker 08

  There are vampires out there. They walk among you, shoulder to shoulder, in the dark. Heading to work, heading home, going to the bar. It's a life just like anyone else's, and I have grown used to it. To the darkness, to the moon, to the taste of blood on my tongue. But vampires are dying out. We are a fading kind, and I am the first one created in so long. And that is a dangerous thing to be. Those who came before me, elders of all stripes, they do not want to see our kind gone. And they will do anything to keep their power. And for myself, and for Grace who created me, that is a sword that hangs above our heads. And the worst person of all carries our secret. And he will use it however he sees fit.

• 1:09:02Speaker 08

  Who do you look to when things are at their darkest? From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comes Woodbine, a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes. Those you want, and those you never saw coming. The final season begins this fall, distributed by Realm.