Your Turn Will Come with Carol Burnett

This week on IMO, beloved actress and comedy legend Carol Burnett joins Michelle and Craig for a heartfelt conversation about growing up in Hollywood, manifesting her education and career, and the long-lasting impact of The Carol Burnett Show. Plus, the group offers advice to a listener dealing with imposter syndrome. Stay tuned until the very end for a touching moment between Carol, Craig, and Michelle. Have a question you want answered? Write to us at imopod.com http://imopod.com. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Michelle Obama?

  What was one of the best things you learned from Lucille Ball?

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Well, she, now she wouldn't say, "Hi, guys." She was more like the guys.

• 0:15Michelle Obama?

  She was like, she was ready to be a bitch. Oh, now here's the story.

• 0:26Michelle Obama?

  This episode is brought to you by Theraflu.

• 0:32Craig Robinson?

  Hey, how you doing?

• 0:33Michelle Obama?

  Hi, Cray. I am, oh, I am teary. I'm excited. I'm honored because we have one of my heroines here with us today. And we're just gonna get right into it. I want you to introduce our next guest.

• 0:51Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, we have Carol Burnett here. And I'm speechless already, and we just got started.

• 0:58Speaker 01

  You're not the only one.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  I am speechless. And as I said before, I'm gobsmacked. I'm so happy to be here and to meet you and to see you again.

• 1:09Craig Robinson?

  We are happy to have you. And just so our audience can understand why Meech and I are so awestruck, excited, whatever words, it's because you were such a big part of our growing up. So I want to tell you the story. When we were kids, school age, we could only watch one hour of TV a day.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:33Craig Robinson?

  Yes, my parents were ahead of the curve. And we, like you, were cartoon fans. So we spent our hour on cartoons. And my sister spent her hour on The Brady Bunch and things of that nature. But in the evenings, when you were on, my parents watched The Carol Burnett Show.

• 1:54Craig Robinson?

  And, and I just wanna, wanna tell you, one of the things that I really was awestruck about your show, and I didn't understand it, because again, I was just a, I was like 10 years old. I can't even remember how old I was. When you would come out at the beginning of the show and take questions from people,

• 2:14Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:14Craig Robinson?

  my 10-year-old brain was like, this woman is the smartest, funniest woman I've ever seen, because she doesn't know what these people are gonna ask. So that was one thing. But it always struck me that every now and then, there was a kid who'd asked you a question, and you were the kindest person to children. And being a child and seeing that, I'm, I'm getting choked up just talking about it.

• 2:40Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 2:41Craig Robinson?

  It, it, it really meant a lot. And we were just talking, we wish our mom was here. She would have loved to have been here for this.

• 2:49Michelle Obama?

  She was your biggest fan.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  You told me that the first time.

• 2:53Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  And I think I sent some videos. And I got the loveliest letter from you.

• 2:59Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:00Speaker 01

  Well, you know, the Q and A. I didn't wanna do it.

• 3:05Michelle Obama?

  Really?

• 3:05Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:06Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, I bet.

• 3:06Speaker 01

  When we were gonna do our show.

• 3:08Michelle Obama?

  That feels risky.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it, uh, the producer came to me, he said, you know, Carol, before you get into sketches with your, black out your teeth and you have a fright wig on and a fat suit and all that, people should really get to know you first. And so, go out, you know, I, I said, but what if, what if they ask, what if they don't wanna ask me anything? Or what if they do and I can't, I don't have a snappy answer? And he said, well, so we'll put some plants in the audience. And then I thought, no, it's gotta be real.

• 3:42Craig Robinson?

  It was real.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  If, if they stump me with something and I have egg on my face, at least they know we're being honest.

• 3:48Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  And so, I said, let's try it for three weeks in a row. When we were just gonna start. And if it doesn't work, let's tank the idea. Well, the first show, I was a little nervous and some kind person said, who's the guest tonight? And I went, well, I can answer.

• 4:09Speaker 01

  And then the next week, and pretty soon, I started to have fun with it. You were enjoying it. And it became one of the most fun things on my show that I love.

• 4:21Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  I love doing, we would, we, we had one woman, I raised her hand, I called on her. She looked like Bea Arthur when Bea Arthur did Maud. Oh, yes. You know, she said, I want to come up and sing.

• 4:38Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my goodness.

• 4:39Speaker 01

  Okay, come on. Yeah, and she, fearless, she got up there, what's her name? And I remember to this, Terry McCann. I said, okay, Terry. Now, we had a band over on the. Yeah. Twenty-eight piece orchestra. Oh, wow. And I said, what do you want to do? And she looked at the band and she said, you made me love you in the key of G.

• 5:00Michelle Obama?

  Whoa.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Whoa, well, of course, the audience was going crazy. She started singing, and she's pretty good, you know? She's going, you made me love. And I joined her, because I knew the song. Now, we're belting away, and we were pretty good. And the audience is clapping, and we were coming to the end. And I had a different thought in my mind about the way to end the song from what she had. Uh huh. And we were doing, and then it kind of started to peter out. Uh huh. And she looked at me and she said, you screwed it up.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  It was gold. It's great. It was, and it's, you can YouTube it. Oh, you can? Oh, yeah. I'm gonna look that up. I know, and the lady who sings whatever.

• 5:50Michelle Obama?

  We're doing, well, let's, let's start at the beginning, because I want our listeners to know your journey.

• 6:00Michelle Obama?

  Where'd you grow up? We're in our studios in LA and I understand that you grew up not too far from here.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Well, I was born in Texas. And we moved out here to be with my mother, who had come out before. It was my grandmother.

• 6:13Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  In, I was seven.

• 6:17Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  You know, and we moved into one room in a building on Yucca and Wilcox.

• 6:26Michelle Obama?

  Right near the Hollywood sign.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  That's right. I used to climb the sign.

• 6:30Michelle Obama?

  Wow, literally, the letters.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Literally.

• 6:32Michelle Obama?

  How old were you when you were doing that?

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Eleven.

• 6:34Michelle Obama?

  Who took you up there? Did you just wander up there?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  No, the neighborhood kids.

• 6:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  We'd be roller skating or flying kites or something. I'm bored, let's go climb the sign. The O's were my favorite.

• 6:46Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  For some reason, the scaffolding, and it was rickety. And, oh my God, we got splinters. And it's a wonder we didn't break our necks, but I just loved climbing. Then I would hang over the O and look all, look at Hollywood, you know, it was just.

• 7:02Michelle Obama?

  What was it like back then? What was the?

• 7:04Speaker 01

  There was no smog.

• 7:05Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  At all. It was clear every day. And when I'd come out from the building, the first thing I saw was the Hollywood sign up there, you know? And then I went to school here at Selma Avenue School and LeConte Junior High and Hollywood High.

• 7:21Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 7:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I lived with my grandmother. We had one room, Mama had a room down the hall. And my grandmother, it was a Murphy pull-down bed, so she was sleeping that. And I slept on the couch.

• 7:36Craig Robinson?

  And so, so you lived with your grandmother in San Antonio?

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:42Craig Robinson?

  And your mom moved out here before you?

• 7:45Speaker 01

  Right. She came out with my dad and then they got divorced.

• 7:48Craig Robinson?

  Okay, but did she move out here for acting or did she move out here?

• 7:53Speaker 01

  She wanted to be a writer.

• 7:55Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Like Luella Parsons and Hedda Hopper. She wanted to interview movie stars for magazines.

• 8:02Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  She was successful a little bit, freelancing.

• 8:07Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  So she did get to interview Bob Hope, Rita Hayworth.

• 8:11Michelle Obama?

  That's big stuff.

• 8:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  So she sold a few, but unfortunately, she, she got the disease. She was, became an alcoholic.

• 8:21Craig Robinson?

  Ah.

• 8:22Speaker 01

  And my dad was already an alcoholic.

• 8:24Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. And my grandmother.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  She was a hypochondriacal Christian scientist.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Wow, okay.

• 8:35Craig Robinson?

  That's a mouthful.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  So what was that like? She would say, "I'm going to know the truth. Everything's fine. There is no sickness, no nothing or other." Oh, my God, give me a Phedro Barbitol.

• 8:49Speaker 01

  Who was the funny one of the adults in your life? My mother had a great sense of humor.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  And nanny could be funny, my grandmother. But sometimes she didn't know she was. I'd say she wasn't trying. Yeah, right, right. What did you want to be? A journalist. Okay, even through high school? I was editor of my junior high school paper and editor of Hollywood High. What were you reporting on? What was one of your big stories? Well, actually, at Hollywood High, I went to Mr. Thorpe, our teacher, and he was an uptight old guy.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  He was probably 30.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  He was very pulled together. I said, "Mr. Thorpe, I have an idea. Do you know the movie star Joel McCray, who was a big movie star in the 30s and 40s and 50s?"

• 9:42Craig Robinson?

  So I watched TCM. My sister does not. I know who Joel McCray is.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  I know who Joel McCray is. He went to Hollywood High. So I said, "Let me interview Joel McCray."

• 9:55Speaker 01

  He said, "Well, okay, do it on your own." So I got ahold of where the studio where he had an office. And I called and I said, "I'm editor of Hollywood High School newspaper and I would love to interview him." Yeah. A lot of good. But they thought it was a cute idea. So they, okay. Wow. He said, "All right." And I took the bus and everything and got to the studio. They took me to his office. He was leaned back and he had cowboy boots on and his boots were up on the table and a cowboy hat. And, you know, I was what, 15, 16? And I said... How did you get your start?

• 10:37Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  Really dumb question. And he couldn't have been sweeter.

• 10:41Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 10:42Speaker 01

  And so, and headlines in the Hollywood high school news.

• 10:46Michelle Obama?

  Of course.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Interviewing Joel McRae.

• 10:48Michelle Obama?

  What were you, what was, what was your personality like? Were you always outgoing? Because I mean, just to even come up with the idea and have the gumption to get on the bus and go down to the studio. I mean, you must have been a spitfire.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  And you know what? I think it was the movies because nanny and I, we saved our pennies and we would see maybe six movies a week.

• 11:12Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Which second feature, so it was like my, my ticket would be a dime. And hers would be a quarter. And we'd get in before one o'clock or whatever, before the prices would change. But what I, the movies were my escape.

• 11:30Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 11:32Speaker 01

  I was very quiet and I was a good student.

• 11:34Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 11:35Speaker 01

  And so, but I would see Mickey and Judy up there and they wanted to put on a show and my golly, they did, you know? I would see Rosalind Russell, who, that's who I pretended I was when I was going to interview Joel McRae.

• 11:52Michelle Obama?

  Hmm.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  Because I saw her in His Girl Friday.

• 11:55Craig Robinson?

  His Girl Friday, yeah.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  So I could assume that, you know? And so I thought, gee, I'll, I'll be a journalist. That's, you know, what, mama, you know, interviewing people. And so, um, I wanted desperately to go to UCLA.

• 12:14Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 12:15Speaker 01

  And, uh, we didn't have the money. Our rent was thirty dollars a month, a dollar a day. And I remember when, when they raised it to that, nanny had a fit.

• 12:27Michelle Obama?

  Right.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  A dollar a day, just to live in the, you know, anyway. So I knew I was gonna get to go.

• 12:37Michelle Obama?

  You knew in your heart.

• 12:39Speaker 01

  And I saw myself on campus. It wasn't like I wished it.

• 12:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  Or had, I just said, it's gonna happen. And nanny said, we don't have, you go to a secretarial school, do that and then nab the boss.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  I said, I know, I know I'm gonna get to go.

• 13:00Michelle Obama?

  Now, what do they call that nowadays, young people? Self-actualization or self, what? The young people call it something.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 13:09Michelle Obama?

  Manifestation.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  I guess that's what I was doing.

• 13:12Michelle Obama?

  That's a thing.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Well, this was 80 years ago or more. I know, something like that. No, I was, no.

• 13:18Michelle Obama?

  You manifested it.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  I was 17 or 18 now. That was 1951, 52.

• 13:26Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Guess what the tuition was at UCLA?

• 13:30Michelle Obama?

  Don, they're usually just gonna stab me in my stomach.

• 13:33Craig Robinson?

  I know.

• 13:33Michelle Obama?

  It was like, what, $500?

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Forty-three.

• 13:37Michelle Obama?

  Oh.

• 13:38Craig Robinson?

  For the, for the year?

• 13:40Michelle Obama?

  For the year? Wow.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  They didn't have, it was like, USC was very expensive. But UCLA was. But I, we didn't have it.

• 13:49Craig Robinson?

  Hmm.

• 13:50Speaker 01

  So, our room faced the lobby of the building we lived in. And then right across, there was a desk for the manager. And then there were pigeonhole mailboxes.

• 14:02Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 14:02Speaker 01

  For each room, each apartment.

• 14:04Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, like slots.

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, so in the morning, because I was right there. I'd peek out and see if we had any mail. And this one morning, there was this letter in our slot. So I ran out, I was in my robe, okay? Came back in to the room. The letter had my name, typewritten, address. There was this three cent stamp on it.

• 14:27Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Not canceled though, they hadn't mailed it. They just, somebody put it in there. I opened it up, and there was a $50 bill.

• 14:39Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  And to this day, I do not know where that came from.

• 14:44Craig Robinson?

  No way.

• 14:44Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 14:45Craig Robinson?

  Who do you think it was? Was it Granny? Was it Nana?

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Oh, she was, are you kidding?

• 14:49Michelle Obama?

  I'm not spending, he's like, right, and have a husband. She's like, I'm not spending $50.

• 14:54Craig Robinson?

  I wanna know who that was.

• 14:55Speaker 01

  So do I.

• 14:55Michelle Obama?

  Wow, wow. So that covered your...

• 14:59Speaker 01

  People in the neighborhood, we were all poor.

• 15:01Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 15:01Speaker 01

  You know, we were on what they called in, it was like the WPA, but it was called relief.

• 15:07Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  In California.

• 15:09Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And so, and I showed this to Danny. That's such a rent money. We could pay. I said, uh-uh, I'm going to UCLA. So, I got to UCLA. Okay. And I wanted to major in journalism. There was no major in journalism. I could take a course and join the Daily Bruin newspaper, but there was no major.

• 15:32Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  But am I gonna major in? So I looked at the catalog and there was theater arts, which had different sections. Theater arts film, theater arts theater, theater arts writing, theater arts English. So I thought, I'll take theater arts English and take the playwriting courses, join the Daily Bruin and just... Well, when you're a freshman, theater arts, no matter which one you pick to choose to major in, you had to take an acting course. You had to take scenery building. Okay. You had to take costuming. Okay. And so, now I'm in this acting course.

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Oh, God. And all these kids, they were doing scenes. I was late in getting to the class because I hadn't known about this particular major. So I was about... They'd already been there, maybe two weeks. So they were doing final scenes for the teacher and they were fabulous.

• 16:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  I teamed up with a fellow student and he picked a scene from Noel Coward's... Oh, I can't remember the name of it. Where we sang a little bit. Okay. And I pretended, because I love the movies, to be Betty Grable with a Cockney accent.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  And I became her.

• 17:06Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 17:07Speaker 01

  And we got an A.

• 17:10Speaker 01

  And then I got into a one act, that student one act, and I played a hillbilly woman. So I went back to my great-grandmother in Arkansas and thought about her. And I remember I had a line where I came in and... You had to be there, but I said, "I'm back," like that. And the place exploded. They laughed and I thought...

• 17:35Speaker 01

  This is what I wanted to do.

• 17:36Craig Robinson?

  Oh, this is it.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  An accident because they didn't have a school of journalism.

• 17:51Craig Robinson?

  Hey folks, now that the basketball season has started, I've been on the road a lot lately, spending time connecting with coaches as they start the season. It's been no secret that this past year, I've been staying in Airbnbs whenever possible. These visits have been so satisfying that my time on the road feels less like travel and more like home. One thing that has been my absolute favorite is having access to a full kitchen. I have been doing more cooking on the road than at home, preparing breakfasts, healthy snack options for the day, and even throwing together a quick dinner if I can't find good dinner options. And on my trip, it hit me, my own home is just sitting empty while I'm away.

• 18:35Craig Robinson?

  And someone else could be getting that same comfort in my space while I make a little extra cash on the side. That's the part I never really thought about. Hosting isn't some big job. It's simply giving people the chance to enjoy a meaningful trip while your place works for you. And if you live somewhere people dream about visiting, there are travelers like me looking for a place that feels like home. And your home might be worth more than you think. Find out at airbnb.com/host. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Theraplu. Theraplu, makers of fast-acting cold and flu relief, believes everyone deserves the right to rest and recover

• 19:19Craig Robinson?

  when they're sick, no matter where they live or how much money they make. As part of our partnership with Theraplu, we've been asking for listeners' stories about what it's like to balance caregiving and taking time off when you're sick. And it's been eye opening to hear about the struggle that caregivers in particular have when it comes to choosing between taking time off when sick and putting food on the table. The health policy organization KFF reported that about half of working parents lose pay when they miss work to care for sick kids. In 2021, Fair Flue launched the Rest and Recover Fund, and they've committed more than

• 19:59Craig Robinson?

  $1 million to provide micro grants to families and individuals, helping offset the cost of taking a sick day for those who don't have coverage. Learn more or help someone apply for the fund at fairflue.com/righttorecover. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns. Back when I was coaching basketball, I saw firsthand how powerful consistency can be. With Acorns, it's the same play: show up, stay steady, and let time do the rest. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be rich.

• 20:40Craig Robinson?

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• 21:24Craig Robinson?

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• 22:13Craig Robinson?

  So you have your, your epiphany of this laughter makes, makes me feel really good. This is something I want to do. And you end up now going to New York to try and chase your dream of being.

• 22:27Speaker 01

  With some boyfriend. Not then, he came later. Okay. Yeah. What happened was, uh, one guy came up, he said, can you sing? Can you carry a tune? And I said, yeah, we sing in the kitchen with my grandmother. Mother. And they said, well, we're doing a scene in the musical comedy workshop from South Pacific. And would you be in the chorus of one of the girls who sings, I'm gonna wash that man right out of my hair? Okay, so, okay. Now, I, I've never done it before, but I started belting. Really? And I'd never belted, but I was with all these other girls, so I had courage. He said, you're too loud.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  But I'd like you to do a scene with one of our guys from Guys and Dolls, where you would sing Adelaide's Lament, which is a very funny solo that this character has. And in it, in the song, she has a cold. So she's sneezing and sniffling, and I thought, I can do that because I don't have to sound pretty. You know, and I did it and. Was good. And I won an award as the most outstanding newcomer.

• 23:46Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  In the theater arts department.

• 23:48Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  And I thought, I want to go to New York and be on Broadway in musical comedy.

• 23:53Michelle Obama?

  Had you been learning throughout this major about the stepping stones in that career? So you, you knew that New York was the place to be?

• 24:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I didn't look like Marilyn Monroe. I didn't look like even Tony Curtis.

• 24:13Michelle Obama?

  So you're like the movies now?

• 24:15Speaker 01

  Broadway. Broadway. And again, I knew I was going to get to go.

• 24:23Michelle Obama?

  Manifestation, young people.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  And so in the musical comedy department, our professor said, there were nine of us. We're going to a party next Saturday night in San Diego.

• 24:37Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 24:38Speaker 01

  And it's a black tie formal affair. Why don't you kids come down and do your scenes as the entertainment for the party? And I'll grade you.

• 24:47Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Okay, so all of us got the cars and went down. And with my boyfriend, I did a scene from Annie, Get Your Gun.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Everybody, afterwards, I'm at the hors d'oeuvres table. And I have a napkin and I'm stealing hors d'oeuvres. And I'm like, take home to nanny to put in my.

• 25:11Michelle Obama?

  So she can know that that $50 was worth something.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  I thought, oh, this is, oh, my God, I'm busted. You know, and it turned around and there was this gentleman and his wife. Black tie, beautiful gown, she had, we like to, what do you want to do with your life? I said, someday, I want to go to New York. And he said, why aren't you there now? I said, well, I'm hoping to get the chance to go someday, but I'm, I'm working. I had a part-time job. He said, I'll lend you the money.

• 25:43Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  And he gave me his card. And I looked, I thought that it was the champagne talking.

• 25:50Michelle Obama?

  It's like he's going to forget about this in the morning.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  He gave me his card, he said, be in my office a week from Monday.

• 25:57Michelle Obama?

  Who was he? What did he do?

• 26:00Speaker 01

  What happened was.

• 26:03Speaker 01

  Don and I went down. He was a very wealthy businessman. Went into his office, he said, "Okay, I'm going to lend each one of you a thousand dollars. And payable, you know, for if you can pay it back in five years. Stipulations. You must use the money to go to New York.

• 26:30Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  You must never reveal my name.

• 26:36Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 26:37Speaker 01

  And if you are successful, you must help others out.

• 26:41Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 26:44Craig Robinson?

  And he wasn't in the, in show business?

• 26:45Speaker 01

  No. What happened was, I found out later that

• 26:50Speaker 01

  he had helped somebody get started in a restaurant.

• 26:54Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 26:55Michelle Obama?

  He just identified talent.

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Somebody staked him to a claim.

• 27:00Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  At one point, and it was like pay it forward.

• 27:02Craig Robinson?

  Pay it forward, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.

• 27:04Speaker 01

  Well, when I got home and showed nanny all this money, I thought you were gonna have a heart attack. You can't go to New York, you can't. I have to. I wanted to. Now, here's how stupid I was.

• 27:18Michelle Obama?

  Well.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  I didn't know where I was gonna stay.

• 27:21Michelle Obama?

  You just went, you literally.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Got on a plane.

• 27:23Michelle Obama?

  That, the, the, you were the typical yokel off the bus. Was it a bus ticket?

• 27:29Speaker 01

  It was a plane ticket.

• 27:30Michelle Obama?

  Okay, off, on a plane.

• 27:32Speaker 01

  A plane ticket.

• 27:32Michelle Obama?

  Had you ever flown before?

• 27:34Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 27:35Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  So now I'm on a plane. I was reading the New Yorker.

• 27:39Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  And there was an ad for the Algonquin Hotel, which all the witty people would gather and exchange. And I thought, well, that's it, interesting. So I, it was raining, and I love rain when it's good, not torrential. And I walked with my cardboard suitcase to the Algonquin. Checked in, nine dollars, they said, a day. I thought for a week, no, nine dollars a day. Oh my God, yeah. Anyway.

• 28:11Michelle Obama?

  But you're loaded.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Well, I had left maybe about five hundred dollars because of the plane.

• 28:17Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 28:20Speaker 01

  So I got up to the room and I thought, what am I gonna do? I had one phone number. It was from a girl who had been in the South Pacific scene. She was a year ahead of me. And she wrote everybody, said, I'm in New York, so if you're ever here, give me a call. So I called her that morning and I said, it's Carol Burnett. She said, hi, you're here. I said, yeah, where are you? I said, I'm at the Yale of Gaku. What? She's, get out of there and come over to where I am. Where is? I checked out and I had her address. Bing bong, it was a townhouse.

• 29:00Michelle Obama?

  What part of New York was?

• 29:01Speaker 01

  It was West 54th Street, between 5 and 6. It was a place called The Rehearsal Club. It housed young women who wanted to be in show business. It was very proper, had a house mother, they had rules. There was one cot available. And I was introduced to the house mother and she said, okay, you can come in here, you can be. And it's $18 a week, room and board. It was a godsend.

• 29:29Michelle Obama?

  You had so many angels, you know?

• 29:34Speaker 01

  I call, I call him Clarence. He's a wonderful wife. There's Clarence.

• 29:39Michelle Obama?

  There he is.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:41Michelle Obama?

  Were you ever afraid? I mean, in this process, I mean.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  I was too stupid.

• 29:49Michelle Obama?

  But you.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  It was the movies.

• 29:51Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Again, Mickey and Judy, I'm gonna put on a show, I'm gonna be a.

• 29:55Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 29:56Speaker 01

  And also, when I was gonna leave UCLA, some friends gave me a party. And they said, what are you gonna do when you get to New York? I said, I'm gonna be on Broadway and it's gonna be directed by George Abbott. And George Abbott was Mr. Broadway. He directed The Pajama Game, Damn Yankees, all of them.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  And that happened.

• 30:19Craig Robinson?

  And this is another one of those you saw yourself already.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  I just, I just said, oh, I was bragging, I said it.

• 30:25Craig Robinson?

  Oh, okay, this wasn't one of your manifestations.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  A few jobs.

• 30:28Michelle Obama?

  No, but it was.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:29Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  But I finally then got a call to audition for George Abbott. And it was Once Upon a Mattress.

• 30:36Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 30:37Speaker 01

  But that was five years later.

• 30:38Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 30:39Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 30:39Michelle Obama?

  Did you have to get an agent at the time? I mean, how?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Go get an agent.

• 30:44Michelle Obama?

  I know, yeah, it's like, what do you, how do you break into, how do you come from nowhere with a cardboard suitcase? And even sort of begin? How do you, how did you know what to do?

• 30:58Speaker 01

  Well, you tried to get into an agent's office and you couldn't get past the receptionist.

• 31:03Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  They would throw your eight by ten glossy into the wastebasket.

• 31:08Michelle Obama?

  But you knew to get headshots, you did all that?

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Because I learned that from the girls.

• 31:12Michelle Obama?

  Okay, so you were in like your own little Broadway school?

• 31:16Speaker 01

  So finally, I did get a, a meeting with an agent. And I showed him my scrapbook from UCLA, you know, reviews.

• 31:28Speaker 01

  And he says, that's nice, well, let me know when you're in something. I said, how do I get in something? If I don't have an agent?

• 31:35Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  And he said, go put on your own show.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  I went back to the club.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Called a meeting with all the girls. I said, we're gonna put on a show.

• 31:48Michelle Obama?

  Spanky, we're putting on a show.

• 31:54Craig Robinson?

  And how?

• 31:54Michelle Obama?

  And how?

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Some of the older girls went, oh, for, great. But there were about 20 of us.

• 32:01Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  And we wrote and, uh, came up with the idea to what, how, how to do it.

• 32:09Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  And we showed the first act to the rich ladies who sponsored the club. They gave us $200 to rent the Carl Fisher Concert Hall.

• 32:20Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 32:20Speaker 01

  On a certain night. We sent out penny postcards to every agent, director, producer in town saying, you're always saying, let us know when you're in something. Well, we're in something.

• 32:32Michelle Obama?

  This is it now.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  This is your ticket. And these are the two nights we're performing, so please come and see us. We were packed.

• 32:41Michelle Obama?

  How many seats in the theater?

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Carl Fisher, maybe. Two hundred, maybe. Wow.

• 32:47Craig Robinson?

  How long did it take you all to?

• 32:49Speaker 01

  From the time.

• 32:50Craig Robinson?

  From the time you.

• 32:50Speaker 01

  From the time, from the time you landed in New York to the time that you put on this show. Oh, okay, that was fifty four. We put on the show in fifty five. So, within a year. Yeah. You, you figured out New York. The movies. Again, Mickey and Judy go put on a show. Right, right. So what was the, what was the? The premise? Yeah, was it a comedy? Was it a musical? What happened was, everybody was gonna get to do their own thing.

• 33:18Craig Robinson?

  Okay, okay.

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Like, one of my roommates, Tinker, was her name. She was British, really cute. Kind of bouncy and bubbly, was, for some unknown reason, into Spanish dancing. Okay, yeah. She had her cast in it. Yeah. I'm off now.

• 33:37Speaker 01

  And another one was a ballerina, another one was a soprano. So what we did was, the first act

• 33:46Speaker 01

  was everybody sitting around in the parlors, supposedly, singing. It's a lazy afternoon, nobody can get an agent, it's just terrible, and they're singing. Did you write the music? No, Lazy Afternoon was from a. Okay, so you took it. Got it, got it, got it. So then, I burst in, all bubbly, and saying, I love New York, and I'm singing this, there's a major song like that. I said, come on, guys, let's get, I know what, let's put on a show. And then we all sang a little thing about that. Second act was the show. Wow. So, Tinker got to do her Spanish dancing. Sally got to sing a song.

• 34:26Craig Robinson?

  Brilliant.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  What did you do? There was a Broadway show called New Faces of nineteen fifty two, and one of the songs in it was Eartha Kitt. And she was very sexy. Oh, yes. And she sang a song called Monotonous. And the premise of that song was, I'm so gorgeous, I am so sexy, everybody wants me, and it is so monotonous. And she did, she had these chaise langes, and she went from one chaise to the other. Very cat like. Slick around. She would. Yeah, like a, like a lion or a tiger.

• 35:07Speaker 01

  And it's all monotonous. So what I thought I would do would be to be in curlers.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  An apron and fuzzy slippers and three broken down kitchen chairs. Singing about how gorgeous I am and it worked.

• 35:26Michelle Obama?

  Oh, man, yeah. So, did you naturally lean into comedy? Did you think, you know, because, you know, Tinker's seriously doing Spanish dancing and somebody's on point. You decide, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go for the laugh.

• 35:44Speaker 01

  I, yeah, because I remember the laughter at UCLA.

• 35:47Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  And then I could sing, so I could do both.

• 35:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  So out of that, three of us got jobs.

• 35:55Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 35:56Craig Robinson?

  Just from that? So you were able to get an agent from that?

• 35:59Speaker 01

  I got an agent and I got summer stock. And then I worked with a special material writer. And then I got to play, I had an act written.

• 36:11Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Like a one woman act? Yeah. And I worked at the Blue Angel nightclub. And then the special material writer, Ken Welch, wrote a song called, "I Made a Fool of Myself Over John Foster Dulles."

• 36:28Speaker 01

  It was at the height of Elvis Presley. So it was very funny for this young girl to have the hots for John Foster Dulles. Because he was aptly named.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  He wore the hat and he was, you know, he's the Secretary of State. So I did it on the Jack Parr Show. I did it on the Ed Sullivan Show. And so.

• 36:53Michelle Obama?

  So you just took this, this act took you, you were, it was so impactful.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  What was funny too was after I'd done it on Sullivan, I did it on the Blue Angel, Mr. Dulles was on Meet the Press. And they were talking about all what's going on in the world. And the very last thing they said, "What is this between you and that young girl?" And I'm watching the show, I thought, "Oh, my God, it's live." And he said, "I make it a policy never to discuss matters of the heart in public."

• 37:32Speaker 01

  So yeah, he had a sense of humor.

• 37:34Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 37:35Michelle Obama?

  Wow, so you became, you were in the zeitgeist of news. You were.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it wasn't just the entertainment session.

• 37:42Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  They wrote about it in the editorial.

• 37:46Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  I'm wondering if I was a Republican or a Democrat, what she, who is this?

• 37:52Michelle Obama?

  Did your mom and Nana hear about this? That was that when they were like, okay, maybe she's on to something.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:00Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Craig Robinson?

  So now, how did you, when did you parlay that success into television, Hollywood, your own show?

• 38:10Speaker 01

  Well, I got a chance, I was in Mattress, Once Upon a Mattress. And then there was a wonderful man called, named Gary Moore, who had a major variety show at the time.

• 38:22Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  And he knew my work. And his show was a big hit. It was, and one of the guests that one week was Martha Ray, who was a very funny, marvelous comedian. And she got bronchitis. And Gary called me on a Sunday and his show was going on on a Tuesday. He said, Martha can't make it, can you come and learn her stuff and be on Tuesday night with us? I was over there like road runner. Can I? Yeah. So I went, I learned everything and did the show. And Gary, before it went off the air, he told the audience what happened and brought me out on stage. He was so kind.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  And so as a result, the following September, they asked, he asked me if I'd be on every week.

• 39:17Speaker 01

  So now I'm doubling with Once Upon a Mattress and the Gary Moore Show. So things are popping.

• 39:23Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  You're really, and my God, I was making money.

• 39:27Michelle Obama?

  So yeah, I was gonna ask about that, your lifestyle, no longer in the women's boarding.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  And so then it was just, I did Gary's show. And then CBS signed me to a 10 year contract where I would do a special a year and two guest shots on some of their sitcoms. But the agent, unbelievable, within the five years he had it in the contract. That if I wanted to do an hour-long comedy variety show, all I have to do is push the button and they would have to give me 30 shows. What? Wow. I mean, that was unheard of.

• 40:12Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 40:13Speaker 01

  And they said, I didn't even think about it. I said, who wants to be on, that's not me. I want to be on Broadway. I want to, you know, so I totally forgot about it. And then I did another Broadway show and it was not a happy experience. I had a problem with it. I got married. I had my daughter Carrie.

• 40:39Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  And I was as cold as yesterday's mashed potatoes.

• 40:45Craig Robinson?

  Professionally, you were. Okay, so the heat is off now.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we said, let's move to California, go back to California. And we put a down payment on a house in Beverly Hills.

• 40:59Craig Robinson?

  But wait, did you sign the 10-year contract yet?

• 41:02Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:03Craig Robinson?

  So you were in within.

• 41:05Speaker 01

  It was there.

• 41:05Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, okay.

• 41:07Speaker 01

  He weren't thinking about it. Yeah, and now we go, oh, God, we got this house. Actually, it turned out to be a house Betty Grable lived in. It was kind of funny. Wow. And so we said, what do we got? And then we said, that contract, we had a week to go before that would be. So you needed to pay for the house. So it's like, okay, let's activate this. Yeah, and it was between Christmas and New Year's. And New Year's, it would have been over the five years. So picked up the phone and I called the Vice President in New York. And, hi, Carol, have a nice Christmas. Uh, Mike, I'm calling because I want to push that button.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  He didn't remember it. He said, "What button?"

• 41:55Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  I said, "You know, the one where I get thirty one hour shows." He said, "Oh, let me get back to you."

• 42:04Michelle Obama?

  Let me call my, let me get the lawyers on this.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  That was it.

• 42:08Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm, yeah.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  And he called the next day.

• 42:10Michelle Obama?

  And they were like, "Nope, she's got you."

• 42:12Speaker 01

  They said, he called back, he said, "Yeah, I see that, Carol, but you know, comedy variety is a man's game."

• 42:20Michelle Obama?

  Ah.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  It's not for you gals.

• 42:23Craig Robinson?

  Ah.

• 42:24Michelle Obama?

  Boo, yeah, boo.

• 42:25Speaker 01

  So, he says, "It's Caesar, it's Milton Berle, now it's Dean Martin." You know, we, he said, "We've got this great sitcom we'd love you to do called Here's Agnes."

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Get your picture out.

• 42:39Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, really?

• 42:39Speaker 01

  Here's Agnes.

• 42:42Craig Robinson?

  You know, they're not making Agnes's anymore.

• 42:45Speaker 01

  I always wonder what would have happened. I said, "I don't want to be, I don't want to be the same person every week. I want to do what I did on the Gary Moore Show." Different people.

• 42:54Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  And also, in doing Gary's show, I realized I really didn't want to be on Broadway all the time. Because you do the same thing overnight, after night, after night, after night. Whereas with a comedy variety show, you do that, then next week you got another challenge. You have different songs you can do, different sketches.

• 43:16Michelle Obama?

  Can I ask Carol, just to kind of fill in the blanks of, of support that you had, you know, who your mentors were? I mean, and what, what was it like being a woman in the business at that time? And even before you got to Hollywood and before you pushed that button? I mean, what were the challenges of being a woman in the business at the time?

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Gary was very supportive, Gary Moore. So I never had a problem there. He was the kindest. And we had another second banana, which they call us, on the show named Derbert Kirby. So he was the guy.

• 43:57Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  And I was the guy. And there would be times we would be reading the script for that week. And he'd have a joke or something, he'd say, "You know what? Give this line to Carol or Derbert, they can say it funnier than I can." That's who he was.

• 44:20Craig Robinson?

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• 45:04Craig Robinson?

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• 45:49Craig Robinson?

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• 46:03Speaker 03

  Wayfair, every style, every home.

• 46:12Michelle Obama?

  But you never had an issue as a woman? Or did you?

• 46:17Speaker 01

  I, I think it was my fault.

• 46:20Michelle Obama?

  What do you mean?

• 46:21Speaker 01

  Because in that era, the Betty Crocker era.

• 46:24Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Okay, if a sketch wasn't working for Jackie Gleason or Sid Caesar, they'd call the writers. They'd, "You guys, this sucks. Get over here."

• 46:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 46:40Speaker 01

  If I did it, as a woman in that time, I would be considered a bitch.

• 46:48Michelle Obama?

  Yep.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  So what I would do would be, if a sketch wasn't working and we're in the rehearsal hall, I'd call the writers. I'd say, "Oh, guys, I'm having a little difficulty with it. Can you come down and help me out?"

• 47:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, just like, "Oh, I'm so, I'm just so helpless. I can't tie my shoes."

• 47:06Speaker 01

  Sure, they'd come down and everything would be hunky-dory. You know, so, but now it's so much better. I mean, it's not all great, but now you've got Tina Fey, you've got Amy Poehler, you've got Kristen Wiig, you've got all these people who have their own production company, who are doing it. Now, the other one, you asked about a mentor, was Lucy.

• 47:30Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  She was my pal.

• 47:33Michelle Obama?

  When did you meet her? At what time in your life did you meet?

• 47:36Speaker 01

  When I was doing "Once Upon a Mattress."

• 47:39Michelle Obama?

  So you were still on Broadway.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  I was on Broadway. And she came to see the second night. I was more nervous than I was opening night with all the critics. I peeked through the curtain and I saw this orange hair in the second room. I went, "Oh, Lucy." And so after the show, I had, we were in this off-Broadway theater and it was pretty funky in my dressing room. It had a coil curling up from the couch.

• 48:10Speaker 01

  So she knocks on the door and I open the door. She's, "Hiya, kid." She was 22 years older, so I'm kid.

• 48:17Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 48:18Speaker 01

  She starts to, I said, "Oh, look out." She says, "I see it."

• 48:24Speaker 01

  And she sat down, it was like 20 minutes. And got up, she said, kid, if you ever need me for anything, you call me. So like, three years later, I had a special I was doing for NBC. And they said, okay, we'll give you, but you gotta have a major guest star. So the producer said, call Lucy. I said, I don't wanna bother you.

• 48:49Michelle Obama?

  And you hadn't been in contact with her, right?

• 48:51Speaker 01

  And he said, give her a call. She can do say, I'd love to, but I'm busy. So I got her on the phone. She, hey, kid, you're doing great. What's happening? And I blubbered about, oh, Lucy, I'm doing this. And she interrupted me. She said, when do you want me?

• 49:09Michelle Obama?

  Wow.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  So we did it. And Zero Mustill was the other guest. It was just those two. And we had the best time.

• 49:19Michelle Obama?

  What was one of the best things you learned from Lucille Ball?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Well, she, now she wouldn't say, hi, guys. She was more like the guys.

• 49:35Michelle Obama?

  She was like, she was ready to be a bitch.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  Now, here's the story.

• 49:40Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  She was a guest on my show and we were, had a break, dinner break. So we went across the street to a restaurant from CBS. She's knocking back a whiskey sour. She says, you know, kid, you're doing really great. And it's great that Joe, my husband Joe, was producing the show. He was also a producer of The Gary Moore Show. So he ran the show. And she said, that's great. You got Joe to be running. You don't have, because when I was married to the Cuban.

• 50:16Speaker 01

  She said, "Desi did everything." Yeah. He invented the three-camera system. He said, "Put them on wheels so they can move around." It was Desi. He took care of the costumes. He took care of the script so that... She said, "All I had to do on a Monday is come in and be silly Lucy." "Now, we got a divorce, and it's up to me." And she says, "So I'm sitting there..." And remember, she had another one called "The Lucy Show," different incarnation? And she said, "And the script was terrible." She said, "Oh, my God, and Desi's not here to fix it." So she called lunch, and she said, "I went back to my office,

• 50:59Speaker 01

  and I thought, 'I gotta be strong. I gotta be like Desi.'" I know. She went back, and she told them. She said, "I told them in no uncertain terms, 'This is what... You gotta fix this, and you gotta fix that.'" And I mean, it's no words. And she said, "Kid, that's when they put the S on the end of my last name."

• 51:24Speaker 01

  Lucille Bowles.

• 51:30Speaker 01

  And she was great. She always sent me flowers on my birthday. And I got up one morning, and she had died on my birthday. And I got flowers that afternoon. "Happy birthday, kid."

• 51:44Craig Robinson?

  Oh, man.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 51:47Craig Robinson?

  Now, this business is so full of rejection. And I read somewhere where you never took rejection personally. Can you talk about how you handled adversity in that business?

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Well... Because kids today fall apart. And I can't remember what I was auditioning for. It might have been a commercial or something. This was before I got on Gary's show and all of that. So I was just starting up. And it was kind of narrowed down to between me and another girl.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  I thought I had it.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  But I didn't. She got it. I don't know where this came from. But I thought. It's her turn.

• 52:37Craig Robinson?

  It's just, yeah.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  It's not my turn. My turn will come. It's her turn. So when I get letters or calls from people who say, how do you handle it? Just say, okay, wasn't my turn yet.

• 52:48Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  And I was never. Okay. It was for her.

• 52:53Craig Robinson?

  And that didn't come from your upbringing or anything?

• 52:57Speaker 01

  Oh, no.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  No, no, no. My grandmother would have had her killed.

• 53:11Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 53:12Craig Robinson?

  Now, how did you handle being a mom during all of this fame?

• 53:19Speaker 01

  We were on a school schedule. In other words, we were so, we, a lot of the crew from The Gary Moore Show came out. So we were a well-oiled machine. I, like on Mondays, I would take the kids to school.

• 53:36Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  And then I'd go to work.

• 53:38Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 53:38Speaker 01

  And we would be finished in time on a Monday for me to come and pick the kids up.

• 53:42Michelle Obama?

  It's a perfect job. So what was Carol Burnett, the mom, like? What was it, what was it like when Carol Burnett showed up in the pickup line?

• 53:54Michelle Obama?

  Were, were you, were, were you Carol Burnett in their lives or were you?

• 54:00Speaker 01

  I was mom.

• 54:01Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  I was mom, yeah.

• 54:02Michelle Obama?

  How did you manage that? I mean, you.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  It was difficult, yeah. Yeah, it was difficult. And then Carrie, my darling Carrie, got into drugs as a teenager. And it, it took a lot. But we, it was three rehabs. And family sessions.

• 54:23Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:24Speaker 01

  And the last rehab we sent her to, she was so angry with me. I mean, and I said, I, I have to love her enough to let her hate me.

• 54:35Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  And we did, and she, she also was into singing and music and all of that. And the last rehab we sent her to, she had this wonderful doctor. He was young.

• 54:51Speaker 01

  And she was ranting, she told me this later. She said, I was ranting and raving, and I said, I wanna be Janis Joplin. And he said, well, she's dead.

• 55:05Craig Robinson?

  That's not funny, but that's funny.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  And she said, Mom, that really hit me. So she sobered up when she was seventeen. She became an actress on Fame.

• 55:19Michelle Obama?

  Oh, she was on Fame?

• 55:20Speaker 01

  On Fame, she had a regular role on Fame. I did three things with her. I was a guest on Fame twice. And then we did a movie, television movie together.

• 55:30Michelle Obama?

  How was that working with her?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  She, and she started writing. And she was in a movie called Tokyo Pop, which is now like a little cult film. And she was like twenty-four, twenty-five, and got sensational reviews.

• 55:47Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  And Marlon Brando called her.

• 55:50Craig Robinson?

  Wow.

• 55:51Speaker 01

  He saw her in the movie. He said, I'd like to talk to you about a project. She turned him down.

• 55:57Michelle Obama?

  Why?

• 55:58Speaker 01

  I became Maba Rose. I went, are you crazy? Marlon Brando, what are you doing? She said, Mom, I did a movie. Now I wanna write.

• 56:06Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 56:06Craig Robinson?

  Okay.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  I wanna concentrate on my music. She wasn't after being famous.

• 56:12Craig Robinson?

  Right.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  Or anything. And then we wrote a Broadway show together, and it made, it went to Broadway. Hal Prince directed it. And we were, we were doing great. She was doing great, and then she got sick. Yeah. But, boy, we went through it.

• 56:28Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 56:28Michelle Obama?

  But you got her, got her on the straight and narrow.

• 56:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:31Michelle Obama?

  You know? It's like, I love that. It's like, you didn't need her to be happy with you.

• 56:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:37Michelle Obama?

  You needed her to be well.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Exactly. Exactly.

• 56:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 56:41Speaker 01

  Well, it's true. You have to love them enough to let them hate you.

• 56:44Michelle Obama?

  That's right.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  And that's hard.

• 56:46Michelle Obama?

  That is. That's the hardest part of parenting, and I think it's a thing that people don't understand. It's like, when you say you wanna be a mother, it's like, well, you better not want a friend.

• 56:57Speaker 01

  Well, I had no examples. I had no good examples.

• 57:00Craig Robinson?

  Yeah. But now, so many women have you as the example.

• 57:07Michelle Obama?

  Well, you've been... Paying it forward a lot. I mean, you've had a lot of angels on your shoulder. But you have been an angel for a lot of people. Thank you. Did you ever pay that $1,000? Yes, five years to the day. Wow.

• 57:36Craig Robinson?

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• 58:20Craig Robinson?

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• 59:04Craig Robinson?

  That's drinkag1.com/imo. Drinkag1.com/imo.

• 59:17Michelle Obama?

  So you, you're, you're still at it?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm very happy. I had a great time recently doing Better Call Saul.

• 59:30Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  I just love Bob Oenker.

• 59:34Michelle Obama?

  How do you, how, how do you feel about working every day now? How's that schedule?

• 59:40Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 59:41Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, what's the schedule like? I mean, because Palm Royale, I fell in love with the first season. I've saved it up season two for our next travel.

• 59:51Speaker 01

  It's off the wall.

• 59:52Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:53Speaker 01

  Well, but I'm not on every day.

• 59:55Michelle Obama?

  I know, but.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  I haven't, I haven't actually where I work three days a week.

• 59:59Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  And no more than three in a row.

• 1:00:02Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, really. I mean, you know, that's where I want, that's where I'm trying to be now.

• 1:00:08Speaker 01

  Just, just say that's what I want.

• 1:00:11Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah, let's manifest it.

• 1:00:12Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:00:14Michelle Obama?

  How does it feel being on the show?

• 1:00:18Speaker 01

  Well, all of a sudden now, I'm 92 years old. I have new girlfriends.

• 1:00:24Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  When they called me a couple of years ago to do Palm Royale, I said, who's in it? And Abe Sylvia, who's the creator, said Krista Wiig, Allison Janney, Laura Dern, Rick. I said, stop, I'm in it? I don't care what you want me to do. He said, well, the first few episodes, you're in a coma. I said, that's even better.

• 1:00:47Craig Robinson?

  So when I, I just started watching Palm Royale.

• 1:00:51Michelle Obama?

  Oh, my God, you do so much in a coma, though.

• 1:00:54Craig Robinson?

  But this is what I wanted to, are, are, because whenever they show you on there in a coma, I like start giggling. And I'm wondering, are you doing that to me? Or is it just me doing it?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  It was a good gig, I have to say. Get up at five in the morning.

• 1:01:14Craig Robinson?

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  And lay back down. Get dressed, go back, get undressed, get into pajamas and go back to bed.

• 1:01:23Craig Robinson?

  But you weren't asleep, you weren't ever asleep.

• 1:01:26Michelle Obama?

  You weren't a lot of lines.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Didn't have a lot of lines, no, I didn't sleep.

• 1:01:29Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  But sometimes there were a couple of scenes where Kristen was doing stuff and Allison, it was hard for me.

• 1:01:35Craig Robinson?

  Not to laugh, yeah.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  But now, like, we're buddies, we're really good, Allison and I, we wordle.

• 1:01:44Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah. I wordle, I love wordle, every day.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  I do, every day.

• 1:01:48Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  Uh, I have to brag.

• 1:01:51Craig Robinson?

  Please do.

• 1:01:52Michelle Obama?

  Okay, yes.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  Mostly it too.

• 1:01:54Michelle Obama?

  You can do all of them too, I get them.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  Not all of them.

• 1:01:56Michelle Obama?

  I, I get them done, I, I can solve all of them, but what are your starter letters?

• 1:02:01Craig Robinson?

  She's getting them in two.

• 1:02:02Michelle Obama?

  I know, it's good.

• 1:02:03Speaker 01

  We do different, every day.

• 1:02:05Michelle Obama?

  Okay, so you pick the word.

• 1:02:06Craig Robinson?

  She's like, I solve all of them.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  No, Brian, I'll have Brian pick the word.

• 1:02:10Michelle Obama?

  Okay.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  And he'll say, whatever, and then the letters come up, but we don't do the same word every day.

• 1:02:15Michelle Obama?

  Mm-hmm, yeah.

• 1:02:16Craig Robinson?

  Ah.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  We have, I think, the record of getting it in one.

• 1:02:23Michelle Obama?

  Uh huh.

• 1:02:24Speaker 01

  It's only an accident.

• 1:02:26Craig Robinson?

  Right, of course, yes.

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  But we have gotten it seven times in one.

• 1:02:30Michelle Obama?

  Well, then that's not an accident, it's more that manifestation stuff going on, Kara.

• 1:02:35Speaker 01

  No, it was, it was audio.

• 1:02:37Michelle Obama?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Audio, bacon, clown, crown.

• 1:02:42Michelle Obama?

  You remember.

• 1:02:43Speaker 01

  Stash, uh, stash, towel and talon.

• 1:02:47Craig Robinson?

  So, this is my question, how do you stay so sharp at 92?

• 1:02:53Michelle Obama?

  Because you, I'm just sitting here, I can't remember what I did yesterday.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  I can't either, but.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  But I remember when I was three.

• 1:03:05Michelle Obama?

  Well, maybe this is the time to do our listener question.

• 1:03:10Speaker 04

  Hi, Michelle and Craig. As a young woman, starting her professional career in a traditionally male-dominated field, I have found it most intimidating to network and reach out to more established professionals. I sometimes get nervous that I am wasting someone's time, not making a good enough impression, or that I don't deserve to be in that space. I'm sure that you both have been in rooms where you were told you didn't belong. What advice do you have to overcoming that imposter syndrome feeling?

• 1:03:36Michelle Obama?

  Have you ever felt imposter syndrome? I wouldn't think so.

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Again, I was too stupid. You know, I never, again, I held, I would look at the movies and I would see strong women. And like when I said, I'm going to interview Joel McRae, I got that from watching Rosalynn Russell. So, oh, you don't want to say get over it, but in a way, don't think so much of how of yourself. I'm not good at giving advice.

• 1:04:17Michelle Obama?

  I think you are.

• 1:04:18Speaker 01

  It's like, you're making, you're making yourself happen that way. Think of somebody you admire who is a woman, and pretend you're that woman, maybe. Lots of times, when I would do the show, and I would do the Tarzan yell.

• 1:04:43Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:45Speaker 01

  Or I would do Charo.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  My body, my, I knew what I was doing, but the body reacts in a different way. It doesn't know you're acting. In a funny way. You know, okay, I'll do the Tarzan bit, but somehow, your body reacts differently. And I don't know, maybe, as I say, pretend you're somebody else. And it's much better today. It's not all better, but it's much better today. And I think she.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  She's just got to.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  I can't, I can't say, "Don't worry so much." Because that's not good advice. I don't know what good advice would be.

• 1:05:37Michelle Obama?

  But no, but I, I think that. You know, and it, and it's interesting that because the, the things that run through my head that allow me not to focus so hard on this feeling of, "How am I good enough? How am I showing up?" Sort of giving my power to somebody else.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:05:58Michelle Obama?

  There is a generational component. Because I hear what, what you're saying be the same thing that my mother would say. I mean, it's the same, which is interesting that women of an older generation who have faced much more, you know, discrimination, have had to overcome hurdles. The society was set up in a totally different way. But that there is a practicality. It's almost like no one's gonna fix your problems for you, but you. Um, and so all of the work of feeling good enough never, ever really comes from the outside in, you know?

• 1:06:42Michelle Obama?

  And if that's what you're waiting for, somebody to give you permission to feel good about yourself, it doesn't, confidence, acceptance, it doesn't work that way. You know? It's not somebody else's responsibility to make you feel good. And nobody's really thinking about you like that, you know? So.

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's not coming from them.

• 1:07:07Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, it's not coming from them. The work starts from inside, like in improv, like acting. You, your brain is in charge. And if you wake up in the morning and say, "I decide to have a good day." Like, "I decide to feel good about yourself." That's the beginning. That's the manifestation. It starts from within. And your body will follow and life will tend to follow. So my advice, yes, you could feel imposter syndrome, but I know that.

• 1:07:41Michelle Obama?

  I was raised to believe that I was in charge of how I felt about myself.

• 1:07:45Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:46Michelle Obama?

  In fact, we would get in trouble in our household.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:07:49Michelle Obama?

  If we showed up worried about what somebody else was thinking.

• 1:07:53Craig Robinson?

  Outside of the house.

• 1:07:55Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, outside of the house.

• 1:07:57Craig Robinson?

  Yeah, I'd agree.

• 1:07:58Michelle Obama?

  Our mom's saying was, you know, you don't go outside of your home to be liked, you know? Come home, we like you here. You know, this is where love is, you know? No one owes you that out in the world. No one owes you acceptance. I think we had the luxury of having that at home. And I think when you have that at home, you're starting with a foundation of, yeah, that person called me a name, they called me a jerk, but I know how the table that matters, how they feel about me. And I choose to believe what I hear from my mother and the people who love me.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  Couldn't I have been in your family?

• 1:08:42Michelle Obama?

  You could have been, yeah.

• 1:08:44Craig Robinson?

  Absolutely.

• 1:08:45Michelle Obama?

  But Carol, you were.

• 1:08:47Craig Robinson?

  You were there every week.

• 1:08:49Michelle Obama?

  So.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  No, but I mean, really.

• 1:08:51Michelle Obama?

  You could have really.

• 1:08:52Craig Robinson?

  You could have really been there, but we would have been watching you.

• 1:08:55Michelle Obama?

  Right, right.

• 1:08:57Craig Robinson?

  But let me just add a bit on what Mish was saying because the validation part, I've never felt like I needed validation outside of our home. Because mom used to say this, she's like, if you prepare for, prepare for whatever you want, then you've done your best. That's all you can ask of yourself.

• 1:09:23Michelle Obama?

  Like you said, it wasn't my, your turn.

• 1:09:25Craig Robinson?

  And I just wrote that down to your point, not your turn then. If you did your best and didn't get it, not your turn. Don't mope about it, go to the next one. And, and it seems simplistic, but it's carried me through a lot of tough times when people have not viewed me as where I think I should be viewed. And I was like, well, that's tough, you're missing out.

• 1:09:54Craig Robinson?

  And it's and and and I and and it's really helped. It's helped me in sports, but it's helped me in life more.

• 1:10:00Michelle Obama?

  I mean, we came up in that kind of of of of parenting.

• 1:10:04Craig Robinson?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:10:05Michelle Obama?

  And I think the kind of overcorrection um from the generation that felt the well, that wasn't quite enough. I think we've gone to the other extreme.

• 1:10:17Speaker 01

  Well, when I first had the kids and they were old enough to

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  understand what I I was doing, what a father was doing. I I don't know if you remember the actress Loretta Young.

• 1:10:31Craig Robinson?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:10:32Speaker 01

  Very beautiful and perfect.

• 1:10:34Michelle Obama?

  Mm hmm. Yes.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  I wanted to be perfect. They never saw me angry. They never saw me cry. I wouldn't. I didn't because I was raised. Oh, my grandmother, the brother would go at it like that. It was great over money and liquor. And and and I was sitting in the corner and draw and go and zone out because they were angry a lot and yelling a lot. So I went too far the other way so that I was trying to be perfect for them.

• 1:11:12Craig Robinson?

  Hmm.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  And so when they got angry or they got, well, then we're not perfect.

• 1:11:18Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  So that was not a good thing for me to do. I I wasn't. Those first two years, I don't think I was human to them. I was.

• 1:11:27Craig Robinson?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:28Speaker 01

  Mom. Yeah, mom's got a show. Mom's doing this, mom's doing that, even though I take them to school, good, all of that. I I had that Loretta Young syndrome.

• 1:11:40Michelle Obama?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:40Speaker 01

  That I call it, and it's wrong. It was wrong. I got out of it eventually, but I had to learn my way because I never had that example.

• 1:11:50Michelle Obama?

  Yep. We're always trying to fix the thing that we think

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:11:55Michelle Obama?

  was broken in our childhood.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's up to us.

• 1:11:58Michelle Obama?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:00Speaker 01

  But I love what you said. It was just.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 1:12:07Craig Robinson?

  Perfect. And as far as we're concerned, you're in our family.

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Oh, I feel that way.

• 1:12:13Michelle Obama?

  Carol, you really, I mean, you know, just sitting here and talking about that path. I mean, I don't think that, well, I know, you must hear this all the time, but, you know, we have, we had a happy, beautiful family, right?

• 1:12:33Michelle Obama?

  But your talent, your gifts, the structure of your show, how you showed up in it, like Craig said, you know, your humanity before the show, your honesty throughout your career. I mean, that kind of stuff is, has been as impactful to my development as my parents, right? Because that's the role modeling, you know? You see a smart woman, because what is clear through this is that you've always been that woman. Smart, courageous, bold, and you just brought that to your, your show.

• 1:13:15Michelle Obama?

  And that came into our living rooms as, as, as part of an important experience of seeing what you could be.

• 1:13:25Speaker 01

  You're gonna make me cry. Oh, thank you. I'm so touched and moved.

• 1:13:30Michelle Obama?

  You mean the world to us.

• 1:13:36Michelle Obama?

  And thank you. You know, you know what I want to do?

• 1:13:41Michelle Obama?

  I want to sing "It's So Nice."

• 1:13:47Michelle Obama?

  "It's Time Together."

• 1:13:50Craig Robinson?

  I love it.

• 1:13:51Michelle Obama?

  "Just to have a laugh or sing a song." "Seems we just get started and before you know it..." "Comes the time we have to say so long."

• 1:14:09Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:14:09Michelle Obama?

  Good night, Carol.

• 1:14:11Craig Robinson?

  All these youngsters have no idea what we're doing.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you. Thank you.

• 1:14:17Craig Robinson?

  I've got chills. This, this has been absolutely wonderful.

• 1:14:22Speaker 01

  We love you. Thank you.

• 1:14:24Michelle Obama?

  Thank you for being here. Thank you for being in my life.

• 1:14:29Speaker 01

  I catch you.

• 1:14:52Craig Robinson?

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