Elon’s Departure, Bitcoin’s Takeover & How America Wins in the AI Era w/ Anthony Scaramucci, Salim Ismail & Dave Blundin | EP #180

Get access to metatrends 10+ years before anyone else - https://qr.diamandis.com/metatrends Anthony Scaramucci is an American financier, entrepreneur, and political figure, and the founder of SkyBridge Capital. Salim Ismail is the founder of OpenExO Dave Blundin is the founder of Link Ventures – Offers for my audience: You can access my conversation with Cathie Wood and Mo Gawdat for free at https://qr.diamandis.com/SummitEM Test what’s going on inside your body at https://qr.diamandis.com/fountainlifepodcast Reverse the age of my skin using the same cream at https://qr.diamandis.com/oneskinpod –- Learn more about Anthony’s podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@therealanthonyscaramucci/videos Connect with Anthony on X: https://x.com/Scaramucci Learn about Dave’s fund: https://www.linkventures.com/xpv-fund Join Salim's Workshop to build your ExO https://openexo.com/10x-shift?video=PeterD062625 Connect with Peter: X Instagram Listen to MOONSHOTS: Apple YouTube – *Recorded on June 30, 2025 *Views are my own thoughts; not Financial, Medical, or Legal Advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  So Elon got nailed because he's Elon Musk.

• 0:03Peter Diamandis?

  Is the current administration still tech-forward even with Elon leaving?

• 0:09Speaker 00

  You're asking me the question. I want to be as objective as possible. Somebody minor in the administration can pick your eyeball out with a nice pick, drop it in a dirty martini glass, you're bleeding at the table, they're still talking to you like nothing happened. That's Washington.

• 0:25Speaker 02

  China-US tension makes very little sense.

• 0:29Speaker 00

  I'm a believer that we have two different systems, but we have to be compatible. And if anything, I want to get deeper into the economic dependency, the interdependency with China.

• 0:41Peter Diamandis?

  It looks like the entire banking and finance industry is about to get transformed.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  I have 70% of my money in Bitcoin. Could you imagine if I can put my Bitcoin at JP Morgan and get yield off it? And there's a structure around it that protects it? Forget it. It's over.

• 1:04Peter Diamandis?

  Everybody, welcome to Moon Shots. I'm here with the Emperor of Exponentials, Salim Ismail, the extraordinary alchemist of AI, Dave Blundin, and our special guest for today, the Mooch, Anthony Scaramucci. So, you know, last time we were together, Scaramucci made some extraordinary predictions. If you know Anthony, he's amazing. He's a financier extraordinaire through Skybridge Capital. He's the father of one of my best strike force members ever, A.J. Scaramucci. He's the creator and host of Salt, the host of the Rest Is Politics US podcast, voted the podcaster with the best hair and the

• 1:48Peter Diamandis?

  spiciest attitude. Anthony, welcome, buddy.

• 1:52Speaker 00

  There's a lot of

• 1:53Peter Diamandis?

  You stop combing your hair for god's sake.

• 1:55Speaker 00

  There's a lot of PRP. Let's just talk about the hair for a second, Theomodus, because you know, I, I, I take all my cues from your longevity. There's a lot of PRP that's going on up here. Okay, it's one of you that you know, okay? And there's a lot of bald ancestry in that family. So you know, this whole thing is costing a lot of money to keep it together.

• 2:12Peter Diamandis?

  You gotta keep it up, you know.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  And by the way, for viewers and listeners, okay, this is Latin American dictator brown. I was using Cuban leader black, but it looked like shit on podcasts. So I've got, I got the right color now and I got the right colorist.

• 2:26Peter Diamandis?

  You're making Salim, you're making Salim very jealous.

• 2:30Speaker 00

  Well, God made, God made certain heads perfect, like Salim's, and the rest of us had to get here. You know why I got hair, Theomodus, I'm like you. You know why Peter Theomodus has hair, Dave?

• 2:40Peter Diamandis?

  Why?

• 2:40Speaker 00

  To hide his horns. Okay, because you know, you know, come on. You know, we both, we both have a little bit of that mischievous streak in our personalities.

• 2:48Speaker 03

  Peter's the Pope Pope now, actually. He's got, he's got the Pope hat under there.

• 2:52Peter Diamandis?

  Let's, let's jump into this episode here, you know.

• 2:55Speaker 03

  We haven't even started.

• 2:57Peter Diamandis?

  For those of you, we haven't started yet. On a previous podcast starring the mooch, Anthony, you made a prophetic prediction. And I, I think your prediction was something around the notion that Elon would last about 10 scaramouches. We can go back and we can figure out what it goes exactly. For those who don't, wait, wait, I'm gonna, I'm gonna find this stuff. For those of you who don't know this, obviously, Anthony made a stint in the last Trump White House. He lasted 11 days. Anthony's defined that as a scaramouchi unit length, like a plank length in physics.

• 3:35Speaker 00

  You can use it in a sentence, you know, like Kevin McCarthy lasted 24.5 scaramouches as Speaker. Prime Minister Liz Truss, 4.1 scaramouches.

• 3:45Peter Diamandis?

  Well, do you know how many scaramouches Elon lasted?

• 3:48Speaker 00

  So it was 11.8, but I'm a I'm the official scorer of Scaramucci and I put out on X. We round up, we're generous here, okay? Big balls, big balls. He lasted 14 Scaramucci, so you gotta give the kid credit. You know, but Elon, Elon, by the way, I'm a, as you know, and I said this last time, I'm a huge fan of the guy.

• 4:10Speaker 03

  As are all of us.

• 4:12Speaker 00

  I'm an investor in XI, I'm an investor in SpaceX and only wish I had more money in those two things and I, and I, my heart goes out to him because, you know, Trump is seductive and he got, he got seduced by Trump and I get why. But then, you know, the disillusionment process happens when you realize what Trump really is and so there you go, you know, 12 Scaramucci later, Trump's on the Epstein files and away we go.

• 4:37Speaker 03

  So before we move off the unit, because that's gonna last hundreds of years, you know, the MASSAV bridge here in Cambridge is measured in smoots and they repaint it every year, the number of smoots in a couple of years to, to measure the length. How many, do you remember how many smoots it is, Dave? Oh, that's good, that's good. I should know. It was like 300 smoots and an ear. And an ear, yep.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  Dave, is Tuscanini's, the ice cream place still over there, Tuscanini's, is that still there?

• 5:03Speaker 03

  Oh, God, I used to play, pick up basketball with Tuscanini. Yeah, it's still there, I think there are two of them actually now.

• 5:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think that's the best ice cream in Cambridge, by the way.

• 5:12Speaker 03

  That's good, good home turf stuff. Actually, our, our good buddy Brian Mox, he used to work there and he would dump this big bag of lard into the mixing machine. We're like, that's why the ice cream is so good.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  All right, well, that's why, you know, I, my favorite flavor from Tuscanini's was Vienna fingers, just to show my junk food all-ism. Something that Peter wouldn't let me eat today in my 90s.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  Sugar is a poison, guys.

• 5:32Speaker 00

  I think I looked good for 91, though.

• 5:33Speaker 03

  Sugar's a poison. Okay, okay, so wait, back, back to the unit, so it's exactly 11 days is one Scaramucci? Is that what we're defining?

• 5:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, some people say I was there for 10 days, that does hurt my feelings. I really feel like I got fired on the 11th day and since you're a math expert, Dave, if you start on the 21st. And you work a full day on the 31st and you leave at 2:30? I think you get a full 11 days there and I don't even the president when the president shit on me and puts out on Truth Social that I'm a major loser. He says I lasted 11 days. Let's I I sort of feel like the president deserves some official scoring as well.

• 6:08Peter Diamandis?

  It's defined. It's defined for all time. Let's move on. All right. So listen, I have a question for you. I mean, one of the one of the things that made the beginning of the Trump administration potentially super exciting was the fact that Elon was there. And we had a very pro technology veneer, if you would, or pro technology thrust of using AI in the government, using knowledge and information to make decisions. And the overall question I want to have a conversation with you about and my moonshot mates here is is the current administration still tech forward even with Elon leaving?

• 6:53Peter Diamandis?

  We're we're going to talk about things like gov.ai and all that's coming there. But what's your opinion in general there, Anthony?

• 7:03Speaker 00

  So I always try to be objective. I don't like Trump and I can explain why. And I think I've done that on prior podcasts.

• 7:09Peter Diamandis?

  I don't want to go into politics. This is not a political show.

• 7:11Speaker 00

  I'm not doing that. I'm just trying to point out like I'm going to say a lot of objective things. But I also want to be with self honesty that that's my personal feeling. I think they will be tech forward. I think they do have a lot of very smart guys working in the administration that are tech forward. I think David Sacks has done a great job. I'm not going to pronounce his name well, but he's a great guy. Sherry Ram Krishnan, am I saying it right?

• 7:36Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 7:37Speaker 00

  Okay, I think he is a phenomenal guy. He's doing a great job. I think that there's a guy that was at Stanford that AJ, my son knows that I believe is involved in the personnel area that's helping to staff people that are tech forward. I think he's doing a great job and to give the president credit. The president knows that this has to be a broad scale initiative. And let me give him credit even for Trump one where he. Was recognizing the AI race. If we had a space race in the 60s, we're having sort of an AI race, perhaps with China and a few other competitive economic adversaries.

• 8:18Speaker 00

  But no, but I mean, Joe Biden didn't do this. Joe Biden was not on this. You have to be honest about this stuff. So, so Trump is on it. I like Elon closer to the situation than not in the situation. But I also understand Washington. I have a PhD. I have an 11-day PhD in Washington scumbaggery. So I can tell you exactly what they did to him. I can tell you how it got handled. I can tell you who leaked what on the poor son of a bitch and how he got blown out of his seat. Okay. And I can also tell you that the hot and cold streak of Donald Trump, where he, he gets hot on you, then he drops you like a hot potato, right? And so that's what happened. So, so, so, but, you're asking me the question.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  I want to be as objective as possible. Trump is better on AI. He's better on crypto. He's better generally on dereg. He's not great on batteries. Again, if we're just being open and honest.

• 9:18Peter Diamandis?

  Or energy policy in general.

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Or energy policy in general, if we're just being honest and objective. Okay. He's taking too hard of a, sometimes Trump gets in his mind, the culture war. So the culture war to him is drill, baby, drill. Don't tell me I need to be in an electric car, right? So his base likes the meat eating aspects of drill, baby, drill. There's a, there's a group in, they were in the UK last week. I think they made an anti-Semitic remark. It's like a rock band. And now they're banning them from getting their visa to come into the United States. I disagree with it. I think it's a bad policy to initialize. But that's the culture war stuff. So when Trump has got the culture war going.

• 10:02Speaker 00

  He can tip himself to make a bad policy decision in areas where he's generally making good policy decisions.

• 10:09Peter Diamandis?

  Every week, I study the 10 major tech meta trends that will transform industries over the decade ahead. I cover trends ranging from humanoid robots, AGI, quantum computing, transport, energy, longevity, and more. No fluff, only the important stuff that matters, that impacts our lives and our careers. If you want me to share these with you, I write a newsletter twice a week, sending it out as a short, two-minute read via email. And if you want to discover the most important meta trends 10 years before anyone else, these reports are for you. Readers include founders and CEOs from the world's most disruptive companies and entrepreneurs building the world's most disruptive companies.

• 10:50Peter Diamandis?

  It's not for you if you don't want to be informed of what's coming, why it matters, and how you can benefit from it. To subscribe for free, go to dmantis.com/metatrends. That's dmantis.com/metatrends to gain access to trends 10-plus years before anyone else. Let me hit you on a tweet from David Sacks, who I think is brilliant, and I feel extraordinarily positive that he's in that position, and I hope he remains there. So yesterday, David Sacks tweets out, "What is the most realistic way for the US to lower debt and increase GDP?" "Growth." "What's the best driver for growth?" "Productivity." "What's expected to drive productivity most?" "AI."

• 11:35Peter Diamandis?

  Yet over 1,000 bills have been introduced into state legislators to hobble AI. We need preemption in OBBB, one big beautiful bill. So, thoughts on this? And I welcome your Dave and Salim as well.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  We have to apply historical context, so let's thoughts on this. There were people that were running stagecoaches that did not want the railroads. There were people that had a horse and buggy, they did not want the horseless carriage. There were people that did not want the commercialization of the airline industry. And on and on and on it goes. The most contemporary example I can give you is there was not one mayor, not one regulator in any urban area that wanted Uber. Not one. They fought it tooth and nail. They fought Bitcoin. Protectionism, baby. The American Banking Association liquidated aspects of the Genius Act. The whole nonsense, they can't get yield on the stablecoin is an example of that.

• 12:34Speaker 00

  And so what ends up happening in a society, the society like in Govler's Travels, the Lilliputians want to tie down the society, they want to tie down the innovation. And so, so it's incumbent upon smart leaders to step over those people and to go directly to the American public. Now, smart leader, FDR, we need the bomb, can't tell anybody about it, we're going to put two and a half billion dollars, which is like almost a hundred billion dollars of today's dollars into the Manhattan Project, we're building the bomb. And so, so, but what's happening now is we have too much money in the political system. And just hear me out for a second.

• 13:17Speaker 00

  January 2010, Justice Scalia, Citizens United, you can light up the political system, spend as much money as you want, it's your First Amendment right. That's very, very bad for the country. It's created a separate but equal democracy. Moreover, I can show you legislative agenda at the state and local level, legislative agenda in the US Congress, all skewed now to big money and special interests. I've got a lot of money and I don't want the AI screwing up my staffing company. Let me go to my state senator, hello, state senator, AI could make all these people redundant, pass a bill to slow down the AI, here's the money, right? Yep. You know, I'm Italian, right?

• 14:02Speaker 00

  So I always got money on me, right? So let's take the money out. Let's show people the money. These are Italian singles, see those? Everybody see them? What the hell is that? You never know, you could get invited to Rayo's one night, Dave. They don't take credit cards at Rayo's. You gotta be ready, okay? This is ruining the system. So everybody see that?

• 14:20Speaker 03

  That's depreciating as we watch.

• 14:23Peter Diamandis?

  How is depreciating? How long before those pieces of green paper are no longer part of our economy? That's very, I want to take a, I want to take a bet on that one, Dave and Salim. You know, how long before?

• 14:35Speaker 00

  But you're, you're, you're asking the question is, is the dollar going away? Or is the piece of paper going away?

• 14:41Peter Diamandis?

  The piece of paper is going away.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  That's another conversation, whether the dollar.

• 14:44Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, but let's, let's go back to David.

• 14:46Speaker 00

  Same way the typewriter went away. There'll always be dollars like there are typewriters. But the type, the dollar is going away. It's going to be on your phone. You're going to, you're going to, you're going to trade with people on the phone.

• 14:57Peter Diamandis?

  All right, Salim and Dave, comments?

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Well, let's talk about backtracking in general here because that's the, the political thing. I think what we all voted for was, hey, balance the budget. Doge is real. We're going to bankrupt the entire country if we don't do something.

• 15:10Peter Diamandis?

  Which we will.

• 15:11Speaker 03

  That's, that's what people wanted, right? And, and we don't want to see a big bloated bill. We want to see a big, beautiful bill. So we, we wanted Elon to be in there changing everything. We didn't want him to get booted out. And, uh, you know, backtracking is sort of the political way, right? You promise the world and then you get elected and then you, you go back to bureaucracy as usual. Uh, is that what's happening here?

• 15:35Speaker 00

  Well, well, you see, but it's too academic, Dave. So let me tell you what's happening, okay? They call it a swamp. It is not a swamp. It is a gold plated hot tub. Okay. And what they do is they sit in a hot tub, they pass Cubanos, they pass Krug to each other. And then they have like a zero one, you know, like your computer goes zero one.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  They look at you, look at my hand, they look at you, they say, Salim, bought or can't be bought?

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 16:00Speaker 00

  Can't be bought. Okay, fuck Salim. Let's get opposition research on him. Let's say he's got bladder problems related to his ketamine. Let's say he's this, let's say he's that. Okay, fuck Salim. He's not coming into the hot tub and letting us play in the hot tub. If you, if you can be bought, here are the Cubanos, here's the Krug, come into the hot tub. And let's take the money from the taxpayer and put it in our pockets. We're going to insider trade. We're going to, we're going to bloate these bills. Lot of bloitation in the bill. It's gonna go to our constituents, we're gonna feed our kids and our grandkids, and we're all gonna get rich. Salim, you don't wanna do that? You're a scumbag, you're a bad guy, let's go set fire to Salim's factory or his electronic vehicles, you know, that's what they do.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  So that's the game, don't be academic about it, you have to understand what they're doing.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  So prediction then, if that's the game, is David Sacks gonna be there at the end of the administration or not? He's clearly not in that camp, right?

• 16:58Speaker 00

  No, no, no, see David's different, see David's different.

• 17:02Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 17:02Speaker 00

  Cause David is a duck, okay, and so Elon's not a duck.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  Wait, in the hot tub, he's like a rubber duck?

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Elon is an eagle, David's a duck. Okay, so the duck is in the fucking tub there, look at me, he's moving, and he's just gliding across, no one sees how hard he's working, and he's under the radar, and he's done a couple of really smart things, let's talk about three of them quickly. Number one, the executive order on the sovereign wealth, or you wanna call it the Bitcoin treasury, whatever you wanna call it, the reserve. Beautiful job on that, let's not make it partisan, let's convince these people it's like oil, there's no partisan debate on oil, beautiful job on that. Number two, I can't get everything. I can't get everything I want, the American Banking Association has brought the lube, they brought the Vaseline and the microwave oven to the table,

• 17:58Speaker 00

  and they're gonna jam me, and so I can't get everything, so what I gotta do is I gotta go for 80% of it. Okay, that's David Sacks, and then David Sacks, I don't need any credit, look at me, I don't need any credit. He has hardly any FaceTime with the president publicly.

• 18:15Speaker 03

  Really?

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Okay, well, no, no, no, I'm not saying he's not interfacing with the president, but they're not infinite pictures. See, Elon hurt himself when he jumped on Air Force One every weekend with the president. Elon hurt himself when he's standing in the cabinet room with the president. Elon hurt himself when he's in the Oval Office with the president. Because these people suck, okay, and they're envious, jealous people, and you know why Washington sucks? Because the stakes are so small. Let's take out the money again. See the money? Okay, the Washingtonian people are not on the green team. You guys are on the green team. I'm on the green team. If you hated my ass, but there was 500 million dollars on the table,

• 18:59Speaker 00

  we could split it, but we got a fake liking each other, we're gonna do that. But not in Washington. There's blue teams, red teams, purple teams. And if you're too close to the president, I'm envious. The stakes are small. I'm gonna try to pick your eyeball out with an ice pick. You know, Trump said something to me, and Peter, he said this to me on a Wednesday when I was in the White House. You know, I know. I was only there for one Wednesday, so I know it was a fucking Wednesday, okay? And what he said to me on that Wednesday is he said, you know, this is a tough place, man. I thought I was a killer. I thought I was a billionaire, real estate guy from New York. But these people are nuts down here. I mean, the secretaries will pick your eyeball out. You know, Trump said to me that somebody

• 19:42Speaker 00

  minor in the administration could pick your eyeball out with an ice pick, drop it in a dirty martini glass like it's an olive. You're bleeding at the table. They're still talking to you like nothing happened. That's Washington. Is everybody gonna understand that? So Elon got nailed because he's Elon Musk. David Sacks, he's moving like a duck. So he'll last in the administration as long as he wants to.

• 20:06Speaker 03

  So I think the duck analogy, though, I really feel like Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, are about to become the most powerful people on the planet because of AI. There's never been anything like this before. David Sacks is a duck with AI inside? I don't know how that, that makes your analogy, but...

• 20:23Speaker 00

  No, but he's a brilliant duck. I'm just making the point about a duck is that he's moving quietly through the water. He looks like he's effortless, but he's working away. And he's really smart. He's good on policy. He's good on commerciality. He understands the significance and the importance of AI being the tip of the spear for the future of American productivity.

• 20:45Peter Diamandis?

  All right, I, I wanna hear, I wanna hear Celine.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  Not this people off.

• 20:49Peter Diamandis?

  Celine, what are your thoughts on all this, buddy?

• 20:51Speaker 02

  So, Mooch, you mentioned earlier that the, the, a wealthy guy goes to the state senator and tries to get a bill to... How do you, at the federal level, if you're David Sacks, counteract that? And get AI navigated properly the way it should be?

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, he's smarter at it than me, but the way you would do that is cautiously. The way you would do that is you get a little bit of help from your friends like Elon and Zuckerberg that understand the issue. And the way you do that is you catch the president and you explain to the president that he's going to get a lot of accolades and he's going to get a lot of attention as a visionary if he helps you push that agenda. And Trump is very smart that way. Again, he's got great political instincts. And so, so I think David is doing all those things and more. And so, back to the first question, is this administration tech forward, tech positive?

• 21:48Speaker 00

  It is because you have people like David in the room that actually understand the stakes being so large and they're willing to take the nicks and nats to get the thing done. And so, I applaud the guy. I think the guy is, I don't know him, I mean, I think you guys probably know him personally. I mean, I've met him a few times. I will say this to David Sacks, if you listen to your podcast, he did bring up the Scaramucci as a unit of time on All In. I was very happy about that. Okay, of course, I retweeted that, you know, I think it's very important that we have, you know, you have like E equals M C two, a measurement of like time and relativity. I think you have to have a-

• 22:26Peter Diamandis?

  For all time, buddy, for all time.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  Yes, I think you have to have a unit of time named after you in your life.

• 22:30Peter Diamandis?

  So, we're recording this on June 30, July 4 coming up. There's supposed to be the release of AI.gov. And so, this idea that the government, which has been sublinear, the most inefficient, you know, or part of humanity at any point, maybe we're the most efficient of the most inefficient part of governments, but could be using this for every agency, for the FDA, for the FAA, for the DOT, for the DOE, to move things rapidly through- And to optimize things. Do you think that's gonna happen?

• 23:06Speaker 00

  An extent of that thing is gonna happen. So there's a great book behind you called Bold. You also wrote a book called Abundance.

• 23:13Peter Diamandis?

  Yes.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  And in those books, if it was gonna happen the way you wrote about them, it would be revolutionary and transformative. It would unleash a wild amount of productivity and it would probably solve things like our imbalances, our credit imbalances, debts, etc. But it can't happen like that because we live in a world with lots of different people and we live, in what Churchill said, the worst form of government, until you consider all the other forms of government. And so, so it's not gonna happen like that. Can you get 30% of it this year? 50 or 60% of it in years coming? Yes, you can. The big problem right now for that movement is the complacency. And you say, "Well, what do you mean by the complacency?" We're not

• 23:59Speaker 00

  facing a kinetic or ideological threat. We're not in the Cold War.

• 24:06Peter Diamandis?

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:06Speaker 00

  It is not World War II. Now, you may think we are, and I may think we are, and I may read a Presidential Daily Brief that says that we are, but I'm talking about the hoi polloi of the American people. Remember, the American people, on the evening of the election, the most searchable term on Google was, "Did Joe Biden drop out?" That was the most searchable term. People are like, "Well, wait, wait, who's the... That's my little sister running against Donald Trump. Who's that person? And, "Joe Biden dropped out? Okay, what are you talking about?" Okay, so that's the American people. So you have to understand where the American people are. One of the biggest mistakes you can make in politics is that you hang out with really smart people like the three of you and you get the confirmed biases of the people you're hanging out with.

• 24:51Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 24:52Speaker 00

  You gotta go to the man or woman on the street and you gotta talk to them. You gotta go, "Hey, excuse me, here's the microphone. Are we facing an ideological or existential threat?" They say, "No." And that slows down everything. When Sputnik went off in October of 1957, the man on the street said, "Holy shit, we gotta get our shit together." Okay? And then Eisenhower said, "Holy shit, we gotta get our shit together." And then they bring in the German scientists, and then they hand the ball to Kennedy, and we get our asses on the moon, the moonshot, right? But that's because the people feel the threat. Okay, so you have to get-

• 25:30Peter Diamandis?

  Because the media made them feel-

• 25:33Speaker 00

  Yes, of course.

• 25:34Peter Diamandis?

  Threatened, right? It all comes down to sort of the dystopian views that our media spreads, and what are they gonna be teaching you about tomorrow?

• 25:41Speaker 00

  But this is why you need in this country at this moment, you need a transcendental, you need a transformative leader. See, Lincoln understood that the slavery issue was an original stain in the Constitution. And so therefore, he had to make sacrifices to reknit and refashion the country to align the idealism of that document with the reality of what was going on on the ground. We are now at another moment like that in our history where we have to clean things up. The establishment very, very selfishly has taken advantage of the treasure of the American people. And so they need reform.

• 26:26Speaker 00

  They need constitutional reform. I submit to you guys rhetorically that there are 27 amendments to that Constitution. The document's 235 years old. There's 27 amendments. Do the math. You're picking up an amendment every eight or nine years. And yet, we have not had a significant amendment since 1993. That was a procedural one. And the big amendment was 59 years ago, the 65 Voting Rights Act. But that's a living document, guys. That document is supposed to be refitted- For every generation, but these sons of bitches won't move on the document. You gotta reform and gerrymandering. You have to end Citizens United.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  You have to put a budget process back in place where we're not running this stuff on continuing resolutions or big, beautiful spending bills. Yes, I would vote for you. And we're not doing that. And so, but we have to do that because we have to re-engineer, renew the promise that America is for the rest of the people.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  I always think of the Constitution as software. You have to update software occasionally to keep up.

• 27:32Speaker 00

  100%. The founders knew that.

• 27:34Speaker 02

  And they knew that. They framed it. This is my issue with the originalists. But a quick question back to the tech forward question. If the administration is so tech forward, why the reticence on solar?

• 27:45Speaker 03

  On solar?

• 27:46Speaker 00

  Culture war. Culture war.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Straight cough culture.

• 27:48Speaker 00

  Culture war. Drill, baby, drill. Amen. We're meat eaters. We watch Fox News. You like F-150s. By the way, I don't want an electric stove. Give me the propane. Let's fire up the shrimp on the barbecue. So it's a culture war issue. You see, if you said it the way an Elon Musk could say it, he would be like, guys, our future is in the sun. It's not in what died before us that's in the ground. Our future is what's right in front of us every day and night. And we can channel that now. We have the capability. We have the resources and we have the efficiency of software. We can move the UPS truck around the neighborhood more efficiently. We can move the plane in the sky more efficiently.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  We have, we have so many different things at our disposal now to make this energy renewable and to clean up. You see, I, I think you're going to be sitting here someday, people that are related to us 100 years from now say, these assholes, 1850 to 2150, they're going to call that the dirty period of civilization. See, these assholes were burning fossil fuel and they were ruining the earth, these idiots. It was like they had an open garbage pit with the atmosphere. What the hell were these people doing? Okay, and the same way that we hate slavery, they're gonna take down statues of us. They're gonna say, "These assholes tried to destroy the earth." And the good news is, we moved to carbon-free,

• 29:16Speaker 00

  we moved to solar, we moved to the future. And so what Musk is trying to say, and he said it beautifully on Twitter the other day, this is where we gotta go. This is where the future is. By the way, the Chinese are there, guys.

• 29:28Peter Diamandis?

  Everyone, as you know, earlier this year, I was on stage at the Abundance Summit with some incredible individuals: Kathy Wood, Mo Gudat, Vinod Khosla, Brad Adcock, and many other amazing tech CEOs. I'm always asked, "Hey, Peter, where can I see the summit?" Well, I'm finally releasing all the talks. You can access my conversation with Kathy Wood and Mo Gudat for free at dmantis.com/summit. That's to talk with Kathy Wood and Mo Gudat for free at dmantis.com/summit. Enjoy. I'll ask my team to put the links in the show notes below. On June 5th, Elon tweets out, "Is it time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle?"

• 30:13Peter Diamandis?

  He puts it out as a poll, and he gets an 80% positive response. Then on June 6th, he says, "The people have spoken. A new political party is needed in America to represent 80% in the middle, and exactly 80% of people agree. This is fate." Again, Elon's tweet, or his post, again, I wish, I wish X would come up with a verb instead, or keep tweeting. And I remember I texted you right away, Anthony, because I was like, "Oh, my God, this is the, you know, this is the injection point where hopefully a third party can come into existence." You know, they name it the American, the American Party. Do you think this has a hope?

• 30:55Speaker 00

  Well, you gotta tell me who's gonna find it. If you tell me we're showing up at the table with 50... Billion dollars. And so we can get to people and say, we're gonna have a fifty billion dollar endowment to start a new party. And then we have to have a convention. And we have to put the platforms and planks together of what that party's actually going to represent. But you gotta have fifty billion dollars. But let me tell you what these guys did. And they did it right after the Ross Perot election. They got the shit scared out of them. Ross got nineteen point nine percent of the vote thirty-three years ago. They went to each other and said, shit, this sucks. Can't have a third party, guys. So I hate you, you hate me, let's get in bed together in the hot tub.

• 31:38Speaker 00

  And let's conjoin and let's strengthen our duopoly. So we'll make it impossible through voter registration, signatures, petitions, lawsuits. I'm gonna let you gerrymander your district, you're gonna let me gerrymander my district. We're gonna strain out all the people. And so we're gonna make it as impossible as we can to start a third party. Ask Bobby Kennedy. Ask Donald Trump in the year two thousand, when he tried to become a Reform Party candidate for president. He looked at it and said, okay, there's no way. They've locked this thing down, we have a duopoly. So you would need a duopoly busting strategy. Fifty billion dollars, five zero billion dollars.

• 32:22Speaker 00

  The right people operationally, the right tech people, the right people on software. And you could do this, but then you still have to appeal to one of the other two parties. Because they have the machinery, they have the architecture. And Trump did this. Trump took over the Republican Party. He decapitated the party. Hostile takeover, his third party is MAGA. And he inserted it on top of the Republican Party. He took operating software, to use Salim's analogy, and he overlaid it on the old tech. Okay? And he created a new party. Now, that party unfortunately is too populist. And that party's policy decisions are driven by the culture war. And they're driven by one other important thing.

• 33:07Speaker 00

  And that's Donald Trump. Donald Trump was asked during the Iraq, I'm sorry, the Iran bombing, Donald Trump was asked during the Iran bombing.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  What are the policies and principles of MAGA? And Trump said, whatever I want them to be. Okay, and that's a personality cult. That's not a party. That means that party's gonna be up for play in 2028 because there's no other person on his team that can say that and get away from that. So if I was Elon Musk's political strategist, I would say, Mr. Musk, what is the platform? Who are we getting the $50 billion from? We gotta have a convention, so it's a principle-based party, which means we're gonna have a little bit of a love and tug in the party and some consensus building. Then we elicitate what the platform is to the American people.

• 33:59Speaker 00

  And we go out and we explain to the American people the rigged system of the duopoly. And we gotta get to them on Instagram and Facebook and Snapchat and all these other places. And X. And X. And guess what happens? Because you guys are entrepreneurs. We're all zero-to-one people. Yep. You can go zero-to-one, and you will liquidate those two parties, and you'll force them back into the middle. And so we should get things right. And that party should be, this isn't left or right, but this is right or wrong for America. Isn't Andrew Yang... We need good solar policy, we need good space policy, we need good crypto policy. We're not gonna make it partisan. And oh, by the way, that guy's trying to lobby me to stop something from happening.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  We gotta figure out a way to stop that from happening. See that?

• 34:48Speaker 02

  Isn't Andrew Yang trying to do some of this with the forward party?

• 34:51Speaker 00

  Okay, I love Andrew Yang. He should be part of that party that Elon Musk is putting together. Andrew is correct about a lot of the things that he's saying, but he doesn't have the financial muscle to pull that off.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  You know, those bills you had pretty much added up to what you were talking about.

• 35:07Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. It's not a lot. Look, man, these bills, man, we've lost in 30 years, we've lost 50% of the purchasing power. Look at this shit.

• 35:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  Okay, I mean, look at this, right?

• 35:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, throw that one away, because that's worthless now.

• 35:19Speaker 00

  You know, Ben Franklin, who was, to me, my favorite founding father, because he was so cheeky, right? But Ben Franklin, if he were alive today, he'd be like, okay, we gotta, we gotta start a new party, wake people up. Okay, Ben Franklin wrote a lot of different things, but my favorite thing that Ben Franklin wrote, he wrote a small book called Fart Proudly.

• 35:42Speaker 00

  Did you ever hear the book? No. He talked about the joy, he talked about the joy of flatulence. And of course, you may remember this from the Isaacson biography. We had no money, the continental government had no money. They were over in France together, sleeping in the same room, him and John Adams. And he was ripping farts on Adams to the point where Adams had to open the window. And he was freezing his ass off. He caught himself a cold. And they argued about it for 30 years after the thing happened. Well, they didn't know, they didn't know about. Franklin was my guy because Franklin was about fart proudly. And tell Elon, let's start the fart proudly party. Okay, fart for freedom, as Franklin would say, fart for liberty. Because what you gotta do is you gotta get these young people involved.

• 36:27Speaker 00

  Okay, and they don't like what's going on any more than you and I. Okay, so get them involved. And I'm just, for viewers and listeners at home, I'm just showing the book here. Right there, writings of Ben Franklin you never read in school. You see it says fart proudly. You can buy that book on Amazon and it's great essays on the power of flatulence. And what is Franklin's point? Don't take yourself that seriously, fellas, okay? Let's get in there, let's win together, let's help each other, let's share the credit. We don't have, you know, Trump's big issue has got to be the one guy in the spotlight, you know? No other people could be on stage with him. What did Reagan say? You can get anywhere you want in life, as long as you don't care who gets the credit.

• 37:11Peter Diamandis?

  A quick aside, you've probably heard me speaking about Fountain Life before. And you're probably wishing, Peter, would you please stop talking about Fountain Life? And the answer is no, I won't. Because genuinely, we're living through a healthcare crisis. You may not know this, but 70% of heart attacks have no precedent, no pain, no shortness of breath. And half of those people with a heart attack never wake up. You don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four, until it's too late. But we have all the technology required to detect and prevent these diseases early at scale. That's why a group of us, including Tony Robbins, Bill Cap, and Bob Horry, founded Fountain Life, a one-stop center to help people understand what's going on inside their bodies before it's too late.

• 37:53Peter Diamandis?

  And to gain access to the therapeutics to give them decades of extra health span. Learn more about what's going on inside your body from Fountain Life. Go to fountainlife.com/peter and tell them Peter sent you. Okay, back to the episode. Anthony, let's jump into US versus China. In particular, you know, one of the things we've been discussing on our WTF episodes with my moonshot mates here is in fact, you know, the chip race and the chip wars going on. The notion that by 2030, China is going to be building the entire equivalent of US electric energy production, the entire for the US country, every year in China, that they are

• 38:34Peter Diamandis?

  running away with energy production and could potentially be running away with chip production and AI. What are your thoughts about that? Is the current administration taking the right tack? Are they too slow? Should we be unifying on these fronts?

• 38:50Speaker 00

  Well, again, again, this is stuff that we're fighting over that we shouldn't be fighting over. Like, the people on this call, we know we should not be fighting over Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a nonpartisan issue, the way oil is. If I said to you, we have rare earth minerals in our reserve, if you're a Democrat, are you going to fight that? Or you're a Republican, hey, I don't want rare earth minerals? So we gotta get certain things into a nonpartisan category of policy. I hate you, Peter, you're a Democrat. I'm a Republican. I hate you. But we're both gonna agree on this, we need to compete with China on the issues that you're describing.

• 39:29Peter Diamandis?

  For the record, I used to be a Democrat and I would...

• 39:31Speaker 00

  No. No, no, no. I love you, Peter. You're like one of my brothers. You're like my brother from another mother.

• 39:36Peter Diamandis?

  I love you, buddy.

• 39:37Speaker 00

  And you've been a great dad to my son, better than me, actually, because he actually listens to you. Kids don't listen to me. I brought more pops. Can I show another prop? Look, here we go.

• 39:45Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  This is the Eurasian Century. It was written by Hal Brands. And this is a great book about Eurasia. And of course, if you know your McKinder, the Oxford historian, what did McKinder say in the 1850s? He said, who's ever controlling Eurasia is going to control the world because it's the largest landmass, slightly larger than Africa, but you've got tremendous resources there. And the Chinese understand this. Henry Kissinger understood it. Zbigniew Brzezinski understood it. Jimmy Carter understood it. Reagan had it explained to him and then he understood it. But we're not doing that anymore. Okay, and we gotta, we gotta, we gotta understand this.

• 40:31Speaker 00

  And we gotta, we gotta make sure that we're part of this. So when you're building the Silk Road, when you're building that whole thing out, the belts and suspenders of it. Okay, the Chinese are not thinking in two-year election cycles, four-year election cycles. They're thinking in 100-year periods of time. That's why people say, oh, the Chinese are gonna go after Taiwan. Why would they? They have to do it right now. The Chinese are expecting in the next 20 to 50 years that Taiwan falls in their lap the way Hong Kong did. They don't have to fight over Taiwan. By the way, just for a newsflash, everybody, that's an 80-mile straight. Okay, it's a very difficult straight. And there's a lot of mountainous terrain on that island of Formosa. It's not an easy thing to do.

• 41:17Speaker 00

  Okay, and you know, it was a 20-mile straight on D-Day. Think about all the logistical problems we had there. That's four times. And you gotta get ground troops in there. Okay, and so they're not gonna do that. What they're gonna do is do what you just said. They're gonna outproduce. They're gonna be way more productive than us. And they're gonna get the power through the soft power. This is something I disagreed with Elon about that. Okay, the Doge thing going after USAID. I understand there's some graft, I understand there's some fraud in there. I'm not, I know that people are not perfect. But we need our soft power to preserve our currency advantage. We need our soft power to preserve our brand. The Chinese have a shitty brand, okay?

• 42:01Speaker 00

  You know, I was at a, I was at the Chalk History Festival last week. Some old lady, my demo, by the way, guys, is like 70 to 90. Okay, that's my demo. If the women are 70 to 90, they love me. My wife is like, that's fucking great. You know, no one, no one below 70 likes you, so I'm no problem, right? So the lady's raising her hand. And she says the question about China and how should we think about China? They're pumping money into Africa, they're pumping money into Eurasia. How should we think about it? And the answer is they're getting a demultiplication from their money. Because their culture sucks. They're not a free country, so when they put a dollar in on a multiplication level, it's like 0.3. When the Americans put in a dollar, because

• 42:45Speaker 00

  we got Madonna and Bruce Springsteen and Peter Diamandis, that sexy Greek, when we get those guys in the mix, okay, we get an exponent, okay, because people love America. Now, Trump's hurting our brand because he's trying to be too aggressive with adversaries and with allies. But you gotta go back to USAID, use the soft power flex on people. And by the way, just think about this, we have the international stars. Europe creates international stars. China creates no international stars. Because anytime they create a star, they arrest them, they put them in a jail, and they say you gotta submit to the Communist

• 43:25Speaker 00

  Party. Okay, so we have a material advantage over them, and we have to be smart about the exercise of that advantage around the world.

• 43:36Speaker 02

  Salim, what do you thought? Can I give a counterpoint here? Yeah. In a world of abundance, a China-US tension makes very little sense, right? And if it was a zero-sum game, yes, but in an abundance world, once you have abundant energy, so how does that play into your thinking? Because you're one of the few that can see that tension clearly and also see where the technology is going.

• 43:59Speaker 00

  No, no counterpoint needed. I'm in agreement on that. If you've heard my other interviews, I'm a China rationalist. I have taken Kissinger's view of China. I would recommend that book on China from Henry Kissinger. I'm a believer that we have two different systems, but we have to be compatible. And if anything, I want to get deeper into the economic dependency, the interdependency with China. Because what we find through 5,000 years of recorded history, the more economically interdependent we are, the harder it is. See, when Trump is tariffing them, or he's gonna tariff us, that's gonna make us go apart, no bueno. You're way better

• 44:40Speaker 00

  getting deeper with China, which will stall China from making decisions to hurt you, and vice versa. And I'm not saying they're not adversaries. I'm not saying they're not stealing our intellectual property. I'm not saying I'm a China realist. But I think it is very, very important that we figure out a way to get closer to China and not not have these separate silos. These separate stove tops would be very dangerous and very bad long term for the world.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  Have you heard my one have you heard my one line summary of China?

• 45:12Speaker 00

  Go ahead.

• 45:13Speaker 02

  I think China, the native capitalism of the Chinese people is so ridiculously high that they need socialism to keep a lid on it. Otherwise, they'd sell their grandmother for a profit.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  It's probably true. You know, you probably you know China better than me, Slim. I would say this to you, that the forces in China are different on the ground than people expect. You know, there are seven Balkanized provinces that are being glued together by ninety to a hundred million people in the Chinese Communist Party. There's a lot going on in there, the Uighurs, the situation with Tibet. You know, everybody's got a VPN, ten percent of the Bitcoin mining still getting done in China, fifteen percent of the transactions still getting done in China. There's a lot going on in China.

• 46:01Speaker 00

  And, you know, the Chinese may take Taiwan, or the Chinese may morph into something totally different than is existing in China right now. We don't know. But if you were sitting with a Sovietologist in nineteen eighty seven, they would have said to you, well, you know, the Berlin Wall is going to be there for two thousand years. And it's going to be like the wall in Jerusalem. And then the other thing's going to happen is the Soviets going to be there forever. And then two years later, bada bing bada boom, the thing's down, and the flag's coming down, and the Russian flag's going up, Christmas Day of nineteen ninety one. Okay, and so, so, so you don't know what's going to happen.

• 46:43Speaker 00

  But what you need to do is focus on us, fix the inside of us, this way the people on the outside will love us more, fix the inside of us, and let's give the Chinese a break because they got their own problems. Okay, we don't need to be overly fighting with them while we're trying to fix the inside of us.

• 47:00Peter Diamandis?

  So, recent news, Trump says he's gotten a group of wealthy individuals together to buy TikTok.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, not gonna happen.

• 47:08Peter Diamandis?

  Not gonna happen. It's gonna stay, it's gonna stay in Chinese hands and it's gonna stay as something that people play with every day. It's just gonna stay status quo.

• 47:18Speaker 00

  I think so, yes. Unless Trump wants to pull the plug on that. First of all, they're never, that is weapons grade. That is weapons grade surveillance software. That is about as good a spyware as you can get.

• 47:31Peter Diamandis?

  Or influenceware, too.

• 47:33Speaker 00

  It's, I was just gonna say that. It's influenceware. And so it is moving a nation. They've got people thinking that the moon landing is fake. They've got people thinking Osama bin Laden did some good things. I mean, they got 31% of the boys in this country below the age of 30 that think that we faked the moon landing. Okay, so, so TikTok is a powerful source in China. But Trump's bought and paid for by the guys that own TikTok with the Chinese. And so he's not gonna, he's not gonna bust them, okay? And that's a big problem in the country. Okay, because Trump cares about two fucking things. He cares about money and he cares about attention. He wants to be on the top fold of your newspaper and he wants the four of us talking about him.

• 48:18Speaker 00

  And so he will do, he's like, he's a reality television producer. He'll come up with the project and the script every day to get you hyper analyzing him and get your cortisol levels up. Okay, but if he was a great leader, he would say, you know, this is really bad for us. So either we have to take it over or shut it down.

• 48:35Peter Diamandis?

  You know I don't watch the news. I don't watch the news. They couldn't pay me, they couldn't pay me enough to watch what these producers are feeding us, all this dystopian news. I do watch our podcast. For those of you who are on our podcast today, this is the real news. You know, the technology is gonna transform every aspect of our lives.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  It's not edited. You're not getting a homogenized version. You're getting people on the ground telling you what they really think.

• 49:01Peter Diamandis?

  Talking about farts all the time.

• 49:03Speaker 00

  Fart proudly.

• 49:05Speaker 00

  That's what I want. I want it to be the Franklin Party. And I want the symbol to be fart proudly, fart for freedom. And fart for liberty. You're upset with the status quo. Fart proudly.

• 49:15Peter Diamandis?

  Okay, all right. Dave, what's your thoughts on all this?

• 49:18Speaker 03

  Oh, God, so many thoughts. So on China. Well, first on the centrist party idea. You know, one of the things Donald Trump figured out is that voter turnout turns out to be more important than voter appeal. And the way you get voter turnout is to whip people up, get them super, super angry, or super excited, or super motivated to show up. So if you grab the middle 80% of America, which would be the perfect outcome, I'm not denying that, that would be phenomenal. But what tends to happen is if it rains a little or it's cold that day, they don't show up to vote. Where that really hits you is in the primary. I mean, everybody was shocked when Donald Trump got elected the first time that he that he got through the primaries. But when you get a big support base, it can only be a couple percent, but they show up.

• 50:03Speaker 03

  That's what dominates the primaries. The primary system has fundamentally got some really weird behavior early on. But then you get this centrist party that has sort of lukewarm passion. And so that's why you see it merge with one party or the other at the finish line all the time, because it can't stand alone in the middle. It gets co-opted by by someone who's really passionate about immigration, or really passionate about human rights, really passionate about abortion, whatever it is, they show up to vote. And the centrists kind of sit at home watching TV.

• 50:32Speaker 00

  Okay, so I agree with you. But let me give you a counter narrative. I'd like Dave to react to it. So everything you just said is true. But now you've got Elon Musk on the team, and he's a great engineer. And you just you just told us what the problem is. And so now do we how do we engineer out of that problem? Can we create entertainment content? Can we create policy content? Can we create educational content? Where we ignite a fire under the most powerful voting block in the country. Let me tell you about that voting block. There's a hundred and forty million people in this country. They vote exactly the same way every election. Most powerful voting block. You know who that is, Dave? The non-voter.

• 51:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 51:16Speaker 00

  They have given up on the system. But you're telling me that we don't have smart programming? We don't have smart entertainment people? We don't have ideas through TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat, where we can draw people in? You're saying that they're just too lukewarm? They don't want to fix the country? You don't think bankruptcy could be a sell to a very large group of people like immigration and abortion? You don't think debt super cycle? You don't think a, hey, I can get you more per capita income if we're moving in the AI-based world? You may have a four-hour work week and you may be richer than you were with a five-hour work week. If you're telling me

• 52:00Speaker 00

  none of those ideas will sell, Dave, then I'm with you. We are fucked. Let's take the canoe and ride it over the Niagara Falls.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Well, we don't have to be fucked. I don't think that national bankruptcy motivates people to vote, which is pathetic because it's the biggest crisis.

• 52:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, but it's obvious that we'll run the debt up to any level. The way to win elections is to run up the debt even more, buy a bunch of votes, and then get reelected. It's a perpetual perpetual cycle that's going to lead to disaster. And people just don't react to it. But I think there is a fix, which is make it easier to vote. And if Elon Musk was really playing the cards right, he would have stayed ducky in the in the hot tub and say, hey, why don't we use gov.ai to make it much easier for people to vote, especially in primaries early on, and get that centrist, you know, rational, middle-of-the-road, broad-thinking American to actually show up and vote in a primary, and then you get better candidates. Everybody agrees. Like, you survey everybody. Ninety-plus percent agree that we're not getting great candidates. Why is that? And you dig in the

• 53:02Speaker 03

  cause. One of them, the job is too too loaded with baggage, risk, you know, like like actual getting shot risk, but also social media risk. Like, try to de-risk the job so great people want the job. But then the bigger thing, make it much easier.

• 53:17Peter Diamandis?

  You know my policy here, Dave? Anyone who wants to be run for president should automatically be disallowed. It should be like a drafted position.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Alan Greenspan said that, you know. But again, the incentives are wrong. Dave is right about everything he's saying, but then again, the question is, can you get, like, they'll vote down the voting. Let's just be very clear about that. They don't want the people to vote. They've got themselves in these perpetual cycles. Well, gerrymandering, like you said. Gerrymandering. Politicians are picking the voters in this country. The voters don't pick the politicians. So they've got a system in place. Let me say an Andrew Yang thing here, because you guys brought him up. Andrew said to me once, and I checked the statistics, they're true, the politicians in Washington have a 14% approval rating. The Congress

• 54:04Speaker 00

  has a 14% approval rating, yet the incumbent, when he runs for reelection, he has a 95% reelection rate. It's like being a chef at a really bad fucking restaurant, and you're getting a one-star Yelp rating, but you never get fired. And this is because of the voting, David. So you're telling me with the $50 billion, we couldn't get Musk's help, and we couldn't say to people, listen, we got to get more people voting. If more people vote, we'll liquidate the extremists in the society. We'll make it better for all of us. You don't think, I mean, listen. No, I think, I think that can work. Australia has mandatory voting, you know, and you get fined if you don't vote. No, that's interesting.

• 54:42Speaker 02

  You need that. You need mandatory voting like Australia. But again, that requires a big change. I've got a bigger structural question to ask you, Anthony, which is that the, in 2015, Yale did a survey, and they found that the US is not a functioning democracy in any way, shape, or form, meaning that no amount of voter willpower can result in legislation. Gun control is an example, where 84% of the people want gun control, yet we can never get the legislation passed for all of the factors that you have. So there's headwinds here that are, go much, much deeper than even the political party system. And how do you defeat and counteract? And that is the question I've got, because I think you need a whole new system.

• 55:21Speaker 00

  Revolution, baby. Well, you know, listen, I want to go back to Dave, because I think Dave's on to something. He's saying something that we all, I believe, is very true. You can't get the attention, you can't get the passion going on the stuff that we would need them to get going on, right? But the question is, could you, could you publicize and explain to people the necessary steps of reform? See, I don't want a revolution, I would like reform. Okay, see, what's happening right now is fat cats have taken control, they lit up the government through Citizens United, they got this great corporate welfare system going, and they're all shooting for $50 million weddings and a trillion dollar net worth.

• 56:06Speaker 00

  Okay, that's great, but every time you do that in a system, you break the system and you get the revolution. And you get a guy like the kid here in New York that wants a socialism takeover production and all this stuff. That's happened throughout American history. Who stopped it? Teddy Roosevelt stopped it. The name progressive came from Roosevelt, he was a Republican. He went to the robber barons and fat cats and said, knock it off, you're taking too much economic rent from the society, you're worth a lot of money, you're not going to get an extra yacht, calm down. We gotta help the lower middle income people feel like the system is fair for them and that they have an aspirational arc of a potential career. Knock it off.

• 56:50Speaker 00

  He busted Rockefeller, he busted the banking trust, he busted some of the other trusts, and he did it. Reagan did it. Reagan went to AT&T with Judge Harold Green and said, knock it off. Okay, he's sitting on all this technology that we need, knock it off, and in 1984 we busted AT&T. Okay, the irony is these seven big tech companies, they don't exist if we don't bust AT&T. So guys, knock it off.

• 57:16Peter Diamandis?

  So let me go a slightly different direction.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  What's that?

• 57:20Peter Diamandis?

  We're all techno-optimists on this, on this podcast right now. You know, I do believe that technology is what's going to drive GDP, it's going to drive, it's going to ultimately be the mechanism by which we solve our debt crisis. But we have a lot of people who watch this podcast that are asking about the implications of AI for the lower and middle class, right? How can you make AI for everyone? How can you get this technology for everyone? What are your thoughts there? Because I think a lot of us are just like, super excited about what's coming on the AI front, but it's skating over the majority of the public. Thoughts?

• 58:02Speaker 00

  So, I am a big believer in equal opportunity. And I am a big believer that we need a package of services in this country that provide people with a platform of equal opportunity. So, what's in that is healthcare, education, and AI. And just like we did with social security and we did with other things, we have to deliver to the kid when he's born, the promise that he's going to get fairly educated. And you know this, because you've worked with Khan Academy and others. We can use AI, we can use visuals, we can use, we can take the smartest teachers in

• 58:44Speaker 00

  the world and bring them into every fifth grade classroom in the country, and we can have an hour a day with the smartest teacher in the world for a fifth grader, the Steven Spielberg, the George Lucas of teaching.

• 58:58Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 00

  Peter Diamandis, and we can talk to the kid, and we can almost have a hologram at this point, where the person's actually there with them.

• 59:06Peter Diamandis?

  And it's free, and it's fully democratized.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  Okay, so that, now the teachers union's gonna be upset with that, and they're gonna stop that. Okay, so that's why you need the third party. Because Democrats say, "I can't do that, because I'm tied to the teachers' union." You know, and the Democrats, I mean, they're funny people, you know, "We're gonna block Elon." Last time I checked, does Elon make electric vehicles? I think he does. I mean, I don't know, but I mean, give me a newsflash if he doesn't. They kick him out of the Electric Vehicle Summit? Well, the UAW got on the phone with the Biden administration. We know it wasn't Biden because he's brain dead, so they got on the phone with somebody. And they said, oh, hey, he can't come to the electric vehicle summit. So you kick him out of the electric vehicle summit? One of the stupidest decisions they could have ever made. I mean, come on, what are you guys, you bunch of imbeciles?

• 59:52Speaker 00

  You want the people in the tent, so when they piss, they piss outside the tent. That's what Johnson would say. You don't want the people outside the tent like Bobby Kennedy and Elon pissing back into the tent. What are you guys doing? What are you doing? Okay, so very simply, you need a bill. You want to talk about big, beautiful spending? Let's spend where there's a multiplier effect. We know bridges, roads, tunnels and airports, they create a multiplier effect. We know in the city of Boston where Dave is sitting at MIT, we know that the big dig had a 5X overrunning cost. Insane. But it totally gentrified and created a new ecosystem in Boston.

• 1:00:37Speaker 00

  It created better, better exurbs, better suburbs, more better living standards, higher disposable income, easier access to the airports. And even though it was five times the cost, it generated six to eight times whatever the cost was in terms of positive externalities for the area. So we need a form factor like that. We need critical capital, human capital infrastructure. You want to rebuild the airport, I'm for that. But I also want to rebuild the human capital infrastructure of the K through 12 person.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  And part of that is this package of AI where they get issued an AI tutor, they get issued somebody to help them get through their lives. Not too much though where they lose their cognitive edge. Dave, what are your thoughts here?

• 1:01:30Speaker 03

  Well, the timeline is really interesting. If you, if you think about the next election cycle is right when we're going to be running out of electrical power. Like you mentioned, the big dig and in hindsight, it did pay off. But if we had taken all that money, you know, $14 billion and rerouted it to power generation. Of course, we didn't know we would need it at the time, but then we'd be in a much, much better spot. You know, as Peter was saying, we're going to be miles behind in power generation versus China. But right when the next election cycle is coming on, there's going to be massive job displacement and a massive threat of an arms race with China in AI. And the creation of all the data centers that we need to keep up is going to be a huge job opportunity. And so we'll actually be rational to invest like crazy in that one specific area.

• 1:02:15Speaker 03

  And what's beautiful about data center creation, too, is it's, you know, it's everything from physical infrastructure, real estate, you know, foundations, plumbing, all that, plus operating system design, plus racks, plus, yeah, it hits every legal, everybody can participate in it. So if you think about, you know, the run up to World War II and the beginning of World War II, it should be very similar to that, if anything, more acute, but all encompassing, everyone can contribute. So if someone can rally everyone around that cause, because the job displacement is going to come long before the next election at the rate things are changing right now. So that would be the galvanizing moment. And I think the China thing is not going to go away. You guys agree that we shouldn't be picking a fight with China, but we started it.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  We started it under the Biden administration, perpetuated it. It's both parties, you know, with the Chips and Jobs Act.

• 1:03:04Peter Diamandis?

  Before, yeah, before Anthony jumps in, I would like to hear Salim respond to that, but finish up, Dave, please.

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  Well, so, so there was absolutely no hostility at all prior to the US unilaterally saying, hey, you can't have our best chips. And that, that alone isn't the big deal. It's the reason you can't have our best chips is because there's no way that we're going to tolerate you catching up to us in AI. So if that doesn't do the job, then we're going to do the next thing, then we're going to do the next thing, then the next thing. So Chinese reaction to that is like, okay, you have told us what your position is. There's no going back from that. So any amount of reconciliation at this point isn't going to change the fact that next election cycle, we'll be in a full bore AI arms race with China, whether it was rational or not, it's going to exist on that day. And that's going to be a big motivating, galvanizing force.

• 1:03:55Speaker 03

  I got some other things, outcomes and side effects that'll come from that that we can talk about, but Peter, I know you want to.

• 1:04:01Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, I know, 2028, the timing is like spot on. Salim, what are your thoughts on that?

• 1:04:06Speaker 02

  Well, it's clear we need radical energy expansion, which is the root cause of a lot of this. And this is the big structural tension. I think we don't see a clear path to getting there. It takes too long to build fossil fuel. We have to get around this cultural war problem with solar very quickly.

• 1:04:22Peter Diamandis?

  Every day I get the strangest compliment. Someone will stop me and say, Peter, you have such nice skin. Honestly, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone. And honestly, I can't take the full credit. All I do is use something called OneSkin OS1 twice a day, every day. The company is built by four brilliant PhD women who identified a peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it, and again, I use this twice a day, every day. You can go to oneskin.co and write Peter at checkout for a discount on the same product I use. That's oneskin.co and use the code Peter at checkout. All right, back to the episode. Anthony, was the move, would the administration took

• 1:05:07Peter Diamandis?

  the entire sort of royal family of AI on a shopping spree to Saudi and the Emirates a brilliant move? Do you congratulate the Trump administration on that?

• 1:05:18Speaker 00

  Well, I like the concept. I mean, I like the tactic. You have to tell me what the outcome is. I don't, I don't know what the outcome of it was. I know the UAE is pushing a lot of money into AI. And yes, I mean, generally, I would like our allies to be partners with us on these projects, and I would like their capital, because that's what makes a better... Now, look, you, you know what Churchill said, right? The worst, you know, let me phrase it exactly. You know, it's terrible to work with your allies in a war, except when you don't work with your allies in a war. You know what I mean? And you gotta get the allies involved, even though they're pains in the asses, right? He said it better than me, I'm paraphrasing, but, but you get my point. So I, I think it's smart.

• 1:06:02Speaker 00

  Again, that's an example to me of what we said earlier in this podcast about that the administration has some very good ideas on this stuff. There's a lot of people out there, a lot of Lilliputians out there, they're gonna wanna block them and slow this thing down that are very short sighted. If I said to you, here is an AI, it pops up like a hologram, it's one part Diamandis, it's one part David, one part Salim, and it can teach the kid about exponential organizations and longevity and AI, and it, and it actually interfaces with the kid, where the kid can talk to it, and it's helping the kid with its grammar and its spelling, and it's forcing the kid to think. So remember, you don't want the AI to make the kid cognitively atrophied,

• 1:06:47Speaker 00

  you wanna have the AI give the kid a lot of, you know, intellectual crossword puzzles so the kid is ginned up, and, and you're telling me the teachers' union is like, you know, that is the best thing we can do for our children?

• 1:06:59Peter Diamandis?

  Hmm.

• 1:07:00Speaker 00

  I'm gonna take a step back and let that happen.

• 1:07:02Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:02Speaker 00

  Is that our country? Is that our society?

• 1:07:04Peter Diamandis?

  Well, by the way, that is what's happening in the Emirates. Emirates is going, you know, with AI first across the board, making ChatGPT available for free to all of its citizens. Um, I think the outcome, by the way, of those delegations to the Middle East were to block China from coming into the Middle East and making investments there, because I guarantee you, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Emirates want to be just behind the US in AI as infrastructure, uh, and, and they're buying capacity, they're buying chips, they're buying investments and partnerships with, you know, the magnificent seven, eight, or nine, whatever they're gonna be. Uh, so that's pretty extraordinary.

• 1:07:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the Churchill analogy that, that Anthony just made is perfect too, because the other thing the Emirates can do and Saudi can do is they can act fast and unilaterally, and a lot of these areas, we, we can't move quickly and they can, and they have, you know, a trillion dollars of capital, they can throw at anything we might need. So, so I don't think they wanna see China run away with AI either, so we have that common bond.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  Let me tell you about something that I think we should all be humbled by, and this is mistakes that we make. When we're thinking about our lives and we think linearly and the world's moving the way Salim thinks exponentially and we make these mistakes, I want to take you back to 1999. And we were at the World Trade Organization protests and the blue collar people are up there in Seattle and they're saying, "You're going to kill us, you're going to knock out all of our jobs." And all the smug Wall Street types said, "Oh, that's not true and lower cost of capital." I got that wrong. We heard every one of those people. And what the thinking was in 1999, let China into the WTO, they're a friendly neighbor

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  now, they want our help, they're moving people from the farmland into the urban centers and they're creating this massive amount of wealth and burgeoning middle class, which means they're eventually going to embrace, are you ready? The end of history and democratic capitalism. That's what we thought, guys. And so now it's 25 years later and they did not do any of that. Everybody got that? And do none of that. Who got's? Okay? And the Amandas live close enough to me in Queens, Nassau County, to know that we got who got's. Okay? And so that's what happened. And so now we're sitting here right now thinking about the next 25 years and we're going to get a lot wrong, guys.

• 1:09:35Speaker 00

  We have to be humbled by life, we have to be humbled by the fallibility of our decision making and the fallibility of our expectations because we're by, you want to talk about software? Salim brought up a good idea. He said, "Constitution software." You want something that hasn't gotten a software upgrade? You. Me. No software upgrade, 100,000 years. The phone went from iPhone 1 to 16 on its way to 17, but not you. You're walking around with a cave stick in your hand and you-

• 1:10:02Peter Diamandis?

  And our mindset is the software upgrade that we need. I want to turn, we have, I want to turn the-

• 1:10:08Speaker 00

  But that's my point. We have to talk to people like this, to say, "We're going to make some mistakes. We got China wrong in 2000 and 1999. We're going to get things wrong. We're going to be sitting here, I mean, I won't be here unless he gives me the right stem cells. He saves all the stem cells for himself, fellas. That's why he looks so good, the Amandas, okay? Eventually, I don't want to lose Mooch. He's going to say, "I'm 150. I don't want to lose Mooch. Let's send Mooch some exosome so he stays alive."

• 1:10:35Peter Diamandis?

  By the way, kudos to the state, kudos to the state of Florida that just passed- Let me give you one this one. Kudos to the state of Florida that just passed legislation allowing for stem cell treatments.

• 1:10:45Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:10:45Peter Diamandis?

  Finally.

• 1:10:46Speaker 00

  I'm gonna fly down there and get some, but Diamandis sports these things. You know what he's like, okay, but I'm just saying 50 years from now when he's here and I'm long gone, we're gonna look back and say, well, we made some mistakes.

• 1:10:56Peter Diamandis?

  Come down the fountain of life, buddy. I will guarantee we've got, I don't know if I can say this, we have a, we have the president and first lady of a country coming to visit us tomorrow.

• 1:11:06Speaker 00

  That's really, really vague.

• 1:11:08Peter Diamandis?

  I, I love it. I love it. They're amazing people.

• 1:11:10Speaker 00

  I'm a very vague guy. If you can shrink my middle-aged man boobs, I'll go anywhere that you want to send me, okay?

• 1:11:15Peter Diamandis?

  All right.

• 1:11:16Speaker 00

  It's not even about health at this point. It's just about vanity, Diamandis.

• 1:11:20Peter Diamandis?

  We're going to one more subject here that I, I need to get your input on, and that is the whole crypto Bitcoin world. Let's talk about that. How, how do you see the importance of, of Bitcoin in America, in our strategic reserves? You know, it's, it looks like, you know, I talk about the, you know, digitization, dematerialization, demonetization, democratization of industries because of this. It looks like the entire banking and finance industry is about to get transformed. Do they know what has hit them? You're in this, you're in this game and you're playing at it across the board. Talk to me.

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, they know what's hit them. They're absolutely scared shit about it and they've gone to the American Banking Association, a very strong lobbyist. And they're trying to liquidate progress so that they can catch up.

• 1:12:14Speaker 00

  Okay, that's what's going on. So like, holy shit, uh, Circle's gonna control. Could you imagine if I can put my Bitcoin at JP Morgan and get yield off it?

• 1:12:23Peter Diamandis?

  Amazing.

• 1:12:23Speaker 00

  And there's a structure around it that protects it? Forget it. It's over. Right? And so, and so, and so they know that that's coming. They know Brian's ahead of them. They're gonna try to buy Brian. Probably buy Circle alongside of Brian. You know, they, they have to move. But here's the thing I would say to them, like when they invite me in to talk, I say, guys, the phone company, when I was in Europe and I had to make a call, say I was in Italy in 1985, I had to go to the post office, I had to get a card. They gave me 15 minutes for, I don't know, it was like $3 a minute, $45.

• 1:12:54Peter Diamandis?

  Yep.

• 1:12:54Speaker 00

  Talk to my mom. Now I can go to any cafe in Rome, plug into the wifi, talk to my mom for no dollars. Okay, probably even do a George Jackson FaceTime call, right? And so, but the, the phone companies didn't go to zero. They're still here. And what they do is they morph. And so what the banks have to do is provide different services. The banks, see, American Express, okay, Scooter is a very smart guy. He's teamed up with Brian. You get 4% back in Bitcoin.

• 1:13:24Peter Diamandis?

  I love that, by the way. I just ordered mine.

• 1:13:26Speaker 00

  You knew it. So they even got to lose a little bit of money on it, but they want your business.

• 1:13:30Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:30Speaker 00

  Okay, and they have figured out, we gotta be in the customer capture. And we've got to offer services. You know, you're getting your Wi-Fi from the phone company or the cable company, some fiber optic company. They didn't go to zero. Well, you gotta tell the banks, calm down. There's other services that you can put on the chain. And you can do everything that you want, but you gotta move. You gotta get out of, you can be a carriage maker and make body by fisher. You can make the inside of the carriage, of the horseless carriage.

• 1:14:03Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:03Speaker 00

  Okay. You know, and you gotta, you gotta think like that and you gotta, and you gotta adapt. We hate adaptation, guys. Okay, I was in the typewriter business. I was in a fund of funds business. I had to make a decision. Am I gonna stay in the fund of funds business? The reason why Skybridge got to the 20th birthday is we did 20 iterations at Skybridge. I got out of the typewriter business and moved into the digital asset space to save my business and to save my customers.

• 1:14:33Peter Diamandis?

  Well, you're brilliant. You're brilliant.

• 1:14:35Speaker 00

  You wanna stick in mud? Stick in the mud. I don't wanna stick in the mud.

• 1:14:39Speaker 02

  We did a study of Fortune 100 in 2015, scored them against the EXO model, which essentially measures adaptability and agility. And seven years later, the top 10 that followed the attributes in the model of adaptability and agility the most delivered 40 times the shareholder returns

• 1:14:57Speaker 00

  No question.

• 1:14:58Speaker 02

  of the bottom that didn't. It's just like crazy numbers.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  Well, I wanna see that. You can send it to me, because I wanna send it to my staff. But this is why I like Zuckerberg. Because Zuckerberg's like, we're gonna call it Meta. He thinks we're going into the Metaverse, but he gets it wrong. But he changes the name of the company to Meta, but guess what he gets right? We're going AI. And look at him. He's not sitting there.

• 1:15:19Peter Diamandis?

  $70 billion of purchasing power. He's got a $70 billion wallet in his pocket and he's buying as much as he can.

• 1:15:26Speaker 00

  He's not, he's not, he's not stuck in the mud, that guy.

• 1:15:29Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:30Speaker 03

  Are you, are you and Zuck buddies? Are you, are you connected?

• 1:15:33Speaker 00

  To Zuckerberg?

• 1:15:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:15:34Speaker 00

  No, I don't know. No, I'm just impressed with him. I was in Sun Valley with him at the Allen and Company Conference. And I remember feeling so insecure. He was like 24 at the time, worth like 10 billion. And I was like 44, worth no billion. And now he's only worth like 200 billion. I love that, though. Here's the thing. Equal opportunity. Sergey Brin can come in from Eastern Europe. Let him make 200 billion. Equal opportunity. Not equal outcomes. Not equal outcomes. We gotta help. We're a rich enough country to help these people feel like there's some fairness in the society. You wanna get socialism, have the people think the society's unfair. They're gonna come at you with a howitzer.

• 1:16:19Peter Diamandis?

  Two questions. What percentage are your assets, if you're willing to say, are in Bitcoin? And what's your end of the year prediction?

• 1:16:27Speaker 00

  Well, I mean, listen, I just got done with AJ telling him this. I have 70% of my money in Bitcoin. Now, that's either I own Bitcoin on my balance sheet. I own Bitcoin on the corporate balance sheet. I own Bitcoin in the funds. So if you look at all the pass-throughs and you look at my net worth, 70% of it is in Bitcoin. Now, it wasn't that, but it did this. You know, Bitcoin is a pizza eater. Let me explain that. It starts out as a small slice of the pizza. And then, look at me. It's like a fucking Pac-Man. It goes like this. That's what's happening to me, okay? So it's not because I'm even buying more of it, right? So, but it's 70%. And I think if you look at the power law.

• 1:17:10Speaker 00

  And, and by the way, I want you to do this. Go to ChatGPT or Grok. And say, I need a sensitivity analysis. If a trillion dollars comes into Bitcoin. And here is the volume and supply over the last five years. And there's some elasticity, it'll trigger some whales to sell. Figure out how many whales are gonna get triggered. And figure out what a trillion dollars of buying power does to the asset. Okay, and I think the asset goes, and I'm not exaggerating when I say this. It goes to 500,000. That's a 5X number, which would be consistent with what happened to Amazon, Nvidia, happened to Tesla. When you have purchasing power moving into the asset.

• 1:17:52Speaker 00

  So 500 in five years, 200 at the end of this year. And a million dollars at the end of 10 years. Yeah. And I think, by the way, you're gonna have some hype, you're gonna have some hyperinflation if we don't fix this goddamn thing. No. And so it could go higher than what I'm saying. I'm talking about 2% inflation with a smart Federal Reserve Chairman trying to manage this debacle we're in. If Trump decapitates the current Fed Chair and he puts in Mickey Mouse or Johnny Bozo, okay, he's gonna wanna do whatever Trump wants. Let me not say Mickey Mouse, cuz I like Mickey. I didn't mean to disparage Mickey. You know, I knew, I knew, I knew Musk thought Trump was a dummy.

• 1:18:34Speaker 00

  The day that he said that Peter Navarro was as dumb as a bag of rocks. And then he put out the next tweet, he said, "I wanna apologize to the bag of rocks. I didn't mean to insult the bag of rocks." Because, look at me, Navarro and Trump are like this. So that was a way through derivatives, that was a way through differential calculators to tell people, before he exploded on Trump, that Trump was a jackass. And I love that about Elon, because he's a 19-level, 19-dimensional thinker, right? But on this topic, I think it's very, very simple. Okay, you don't want Johnny Bozo running the Fed. But if you got Johnny Bozo running the Fed, it's gonna go to 15 million dollars a coin. Yeah. And that's not gonna be good for the society, though.

• 1:19:14Speaker 00

  A million dollars is, it's the next gold, and it's a digital asset, and we got things under control. We didn't get into, cuz I know we're running out of time, but you could fix the deficit, by the way. It's a totally fixable thing, but it would require about two decades of fiscal discipline. And again, I'm talking about fiscal discipline, it's just slowing down a little bit of the governmental growth and getting the economic growth through all the innovation you talk about on your podcast to exceed the governmental growth. Yeah, I think the other way you can fix- And you could do it. In 25 years, you'll have the whole thing arrested. People will be looking around saying, wow, how do we do that? That was great. But you got to have smart people in the room that are patient.

• 1:19:56Speaker 02

  Hey folks, Salim here. Hope you're enjoying these podcasts and this one in particular was amazing. If you want to hear more from me or get involved in our EXO ecosystem, on the 23rd of July, we're doing a once a month workshop. Tickets are a hundred dollars. We limit it to a few people to make sure it's intimate and proper and we go through the EXO model. What we do there is we basically show you how to take your organization and turn it into one of these hyper growth AI type companies. And we've done this now for 10 years with thousands of companies. Many of these use the model that we have called the exponential organizations model. Peter and I co-authored the second edition a couple of years ago. So it's a hundred bucks, July 23rd. Come along. It's the best hundred dollars you'll spend. Link is below. See you there.

• 1:20:40Peter Diamandis?

  There's another way to fix the entire financial debacle in the United States, which is increases people's health span. Enable people to be healthier an extra decade where they're productive.

• 1:20:50Speaker 00

  Serving them the processed food because that would save a trillion dollars off of Medicare.

• 1:20:55Peter Diamandis?

  For sure, for sure. Salim and Dave, any last digs at Meach here? I mean, he's like.

• 1:21:03Speaker 00

  I just want Dave to recognize this. I asked for help with my man boobs. He totally disregarded it. About it in the background. He's not helping his friends. Okay, I need man boob reduction and he could help me with some. You know, he's got some cocktail there that helps him with man boob reduction. He's not sharing.

• 1:21:20Speaker 02

  I have a question. Did you see this thing with the bonds that have 10% basis of Bitcoin in it? And it looked to me like a pretty brilliant idea. I wanted your free reaction on that.

• 1:21:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very, it's a very smart, very clever idea. And that's the stuff that the people in the banking association, people in the investment banks are very worried about because that's the stuff that's going to get adopted. And remember, and we're now kidding now, in 10 years, the 38 year old that likes Bitcoin.

• 1:21:51Speaker 00

  is going to be more advanced in his career. He's gonna be 48. And that is going to be massive proliferation. And that provides more evidence of what I'm saying because Bitcoin is immutable. There's a finite supply of it. People trust it. And they're gonna use it.

• 1:22:08Peter Diamandis?

  Yeah, amazing.

• 1:22:09Speaker 03

  Here's my parting shot. So, you know, we have Moore's Law, we have Musk's Law now. You know Musk's Law? You know, the most dramatic outcome is the one that's gonna happen.

• 1:22:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I like that.

• 1:22:20Speaker 03

  So we need Mooch's Law to match that pattern. I'll give you a chance to think about it unless you have it at the top of your mind already.

• 1:22:27Speaker 00

  I probably have to need more time to think about it. Here's what I would say, though. Here's what I would say. This is my observation about this country. Okay, my 61-year observation about this country is that the people in this country want to get it right. And what did Lincoln say? Lincoln said the people in this country are way smarter than the average politician thinks. And the exact quote said, you know, Lincoln said that the people in this country have a good nose. They can smell a rotting cadaver in their basement. And it's at a time in American history where we have to change the plotlines of these political parties. And I mean, just remind people. Lincoln was in a third party.

• 1:23:10Speaker 00

  He was in a third party that was established in 1856. And the name of the party was the Republican Party.

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  You know, really, really appreciate what you've done in terms of being a totally straight-shooting, candid, say it like it is person, which is really rare, but also not tied to either party, like, you know, hanging out on the nuisance podcast, getting a note.

• 1:23:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. We've got no choice, Dave. We've got no choice. I'm named after somebody that assaulted Normandy Beach. Okay, my uncle assaulted Normandy Beach at the age of 19 and took the cliff and burned out some of those cement pillboxes. So, you know, people say to me, aren't you afraid they're gonna come after you? I don't give a shit. Okay, if I got an uncle that I'm named after that was willing to do that, I can use my mouth and my brain to explain to people what's going on, even if it puts me at risk. Okay, but I just want to finish this one point. It's very important about Lincoln. The Whigs. He went after them. He said, "The abolitionist Whigs, join my new party."

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  And then he went after the Democrats. He said, "The abolitionist Democrats, join my new party." And he became the first Republican President of the United States. And he ended the slavery. Took us to Civil War to do it, but he ended the slavery. And by the way, Buchanan was a jackass. We probably didn't even have the war. Okay, and he was sandwiched between two big jackasses, Buchanan and Johnson. But Lincoln, okay, changed it. He switched the narrative and he tried to clean out. He was the stain remover for the stain that was in the Constitution. So, don't tell me our history that we can't do this. This is totally doable.

• 1:24:52Peter Diamandis?

  Mooch, you are brilliant. Everybody, this is Anthony Scaramucci, extraordinary individual. Anthony, where do we find you on social? Talk to us about your podcast.

• 1:25:02Speaker 00

  So, I'm at Scaramucci. My younger son took at Mooch, so I'm at Scaramucci on Instagram and Twitter. And I have a podcast called The Rest Is Politics U.S. It's me and Catty K. We talk about political situation, economics. And I have a pet project that I love, which is a podcast called Open Book, where I interview people like Peter Diamandis and Hal Brands and different authors, because I'm a big bibliophile and I like, I like reading and I like talking to authors.

• 1:25:32Peter Diamandis?

  I just, I'm extraordinarily impressed by your brilliance every time I chat with you.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  Thank you for the work. You're being very kind, you know. I just love my country like you and I love the future. Okay, you can smell the future. The future is so bright. You can inhale the future. You can smell the future. All we gotta do is get to the future. And we gotta get people to calm down, stop hating on each other with the rancor of social media. Let's get to the future together.

• 1:26:01Peter Diamandis?

  Dave Salim, brilliant as always. Thank you. If you could have had a 10-year head start on the dot-com boom back in the 2000s, would you have taken it? Every week, I track the major tech meta-trends. These are massive, game-changing shifts that will play out over the decade ahead. From humanoid robotics to AGI, quantum computing, energy breakthroughs, and longevity. I cut through the noise and deliver only what matters to our lives and our careers. I send out a meta-trend newsletter twice a week as a quick two-minute read over email. It's entirely free. These insights are read by founders, CEOs, and investors behind some of the world's most disruptive companies. Why? Because acting early is everything.

• 1:26:44Peter Diamandis?

  This is for you if you want to see the future before it arrives and profit from it. Sign up at dmagnus.com/metatrends and be ahead of the next tech bubble. That's dmagnus.com/metatrends.

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