Pod Insights All There Is with Anderson Cooper Luke Bryan: Grief, Faith, and Music About this episode Luke Bryan is one of country music’s biggest stars. He's also faced great loss. In this personal and revealing conversation with Anderson, Luke shares how faith, family, and music have helped him "do what you do to get through." Join the community to share your story and watch Anderson's weekly streaming show All There Is Live at cnn.com/allthereis
Host: Anderson Cooper, Showrunner: Haley Thomas, Producers: Chuck Hadad, Grace Walker, Emily Williams, Video Editor: Eric Zembrzuski, Technical Director: Dan Dzula. Booker: Kerry Rubin.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:07 Anderson Cooper? Bienvenidos a una nueva temporada de All There Is. Empecé este podcast hace tres años mientras iba a la casa de mi mamá después de que murió.
0:16 Anderson Cooper? Todavía estaba tan presente en esas habitaciones y era difícil dejarlas ir.
0:23 Anderson Cooper? Así como era difícil dejarla ir cuando murió.
0:28 Anderson Cooper? Mi mamá salvó todo. Había cientos de cajas de cosas para recoger, incluyendo lo que mi padre Wyatt Cooper dejó atrás después de que murió de un ataque a corazón hace casi 50 años cuando tenía 10 años. Y lo que mi hermano Carter dejó atrás cuando murió de suicidio 10 años después.
0:45 Anderson Cooper? Creí que el tristeza era tan confuso y solo. Y empecé a preguntarle a la gente sobre sus experiencias porque estaba desesperado por entender la mía. Stephen Colbert fue uno de los primeros que ayudó con su sabiduría. Dijiste a un entrevistador que has aprendido, en tus palabras, "a amar la cosa que yo más desearía no haber pasado".
1:11 Speaker 01 Lo recuerdo.
1:11 Anderson Cooper? Continuaste diciendo, "¿Qué castigo de Dios no es don?" ¿Realmente crees eso?
1:22 Speaker 01 Sí.
1:26 Speaker 01 Es un don existir. Y con la existencia viene sufrir. No hay forma de escapar de eso.
1:35 Speaker 01 Y supongo que soy católico o budista cuando digo esas cosas porque he oído eso de ambas tradiciones. Si eres agradecido por tu vida, lo que creo que es algo positivo que hacer.
1:47 Speaker 01 No todos lo son y no siempre lo soy. Pero es lo más positivo que hacer, entonces tienes que ser agradecido por todo. No puedes elegir lo que eres agradecido por.
1:58 Anderson Cooper? Ese fue el inicio para mí. Así es como comenzó este podcast. Como para lo que he aprendido, hablé con Stephen Colbert hace unas semanas en su programa sobre eso y por qué estoy expandiendo el podcast para lanzar episodios ahora todo el año.
2:15 Anderson Cooper? I shut down and I've lived for 40 years without allowing myself to feel the pain of the grief. But the irony is, by not allowing myself to, and you taught me this, by not allowing myself to feel the pain of it, I also didn't allow myself ever to feel joy, true joy, because you can't have one without the other. And it's only now, in the last two years, by, and my voice still shakes, which I'm sorry about, but it's only in the last two years by feeling this grief and this sadness that I've been able to feel joy. And I have a lot to feel joy about because I've got these two little boys who are just incredible. And one of them's backstage right now, watching.
2:59 Anderson Cooper? And so it's, it is the greatest gift. And you kind of gave it to me early on, and other people have given it to me in drips and drabs, every interview I've done. And the incredible thing is, the good news is, you can still have a relationship with somebody who's died. And I have a relationship with my dad that's extraordinary, and I know him better now than I ever knew him when he was alive, when I was a little kid. And I feel my dad. I feel him.
3:35 Anderson Cooper? I ran from grief my whole life, but I'm not running any longer. This is the new season of All There Is. And as I said, we're expanding. We'll be releasing new episodes all throughout the year. I'm also starting a weekly companion show called All There Is Live. It'll be livestreamed on our grief community page at CNN.com/AllThereIs, every Thursday night at 9:15 PM. We can come together there, talk grief, and not be alone. We've also set up a year-round permanent voicemail for you to call. If there's something you've learned in your grief that would be helpful for others, or something you want others to know about your grief experience, let us know. The number is 404-827-1805.
4:17 Anderson Cooper? Wherever you are in your grief, I'm glad we're here, together. This is All There Is.
4:24 Speaker 02 Every day, animals across the country face abuse and neglect. And every day, the ASPCA shows up to rescue animals in crisis. But they can't do it alone. Visit aspc.org/need. Become a donor today to provide the care and shelter these animals urgently need. And for a limited time, the ASPCA will send you a free gift as a special thank you. Visit aspc.org/need.
4:56 Anderson Cooper? Welcome back.
5:10 Anderson Cooper? My guest today is country music superstar singer-songwriter Luke Bryan. He's one of the world's best-selling music artists. He's sold more than 75 million records. He's had incredible success. He's been married to his wife Caroline since 2006. They have two boys, Beau and Tate. But Luke is no stranger to loss. He was 20 when his older brother Chris was killed in a car crash. His sister Kelly died while doing laundry at her home in 2007. And years later, her husband Lee died of a heart attack. Luke and Caroline took over care of Kelly and Lee's three children.
5:48 Anderson Cooper? Well, thank you so much for doing this. What I think is so cool about you, beyond your music, is your willingness to be open about something which a lot of people don't talk about, which is loss and grief. And you've been really public about it.
6:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, thanks for having me on here. I think it's helpful to always talk about it, you know?
6:06 Anderson Cooper? Was it hard for you to decide to talk about it?
6:10 Speaker 03 I think with the loss of my brother, you know, I was so young at the time and truly didn't know how to process it. And now, when I can relate to someone and let them know they're not alone in this and try to help people grieve and get through the ups and downs of life. You know, gosh, Anderson, I am... One of my most beautiful moments I ever had as a country music singer is I was in North Carolina. And I'm doing my meet and greet and you know, meet and greets, you're meeting fans and taking pictures and there's a lot of chaos, but this, this boy, he was nine years old, he looked up
6:52 Speaker 03 at me and he had these big tears in his eyes and he looked at me, he goes, Mr. Luke, I lost my sister a couple of months ago and I want to know how you get through life. And when that nine-year-old Anderson, when that nine-year-old told me that, it was, I dropped down on my knees and just, just did the best job I could, did the best job I could in that moment to help that young man. And I said, buddy, you talk to your sister like she is still here. You treat her,
7:36 Speaker 03 you treat her like she is here every day of your life. You talk to her when you go to bed and you, and it was just, and, and that was, when that boy did that, it, it really affirmed my need to talk about my loss. I mean, when you, when you're able to touch a kid that age, um, I was like, yeah, anytime I can talk about this, it is, it's the right thing to do. And there's just so much of that going on in the world. And I think, I think some people have been insulated from it, thank God. But then the people that have tragedy, I hope they can hear our stories and, and
8:20 Speaker 03 understand they're not alone and their journey's with it.
8:23 Anderson Cooper? I mean, the fact that, that nine-year-old boy could vocalize that and say that to you in that moment is, is incredible.
8:31 Speaker 03 You know, I looked up at his, I looked up at his parents and his parents, they went there knowing that he wanted to ask me that. And gosh, there wasn't a dry, I mean, it was one of the most powerful things that I've ever been a part of. And I just did my best in the moment. And it really, really changed, changed me a lot too, in that moment that I, that I was able to, to help him.
9:02 Anderson Cooper? Your brother Chris died when you were 20. He was 26.
9:08 Speaker 03 Right.
9:10 Anderson Cooper? What happened to Chris?
9:11 Speaker 03 He was in a car wreck in our hometown of Leesburg, Georgia. He was dating a girl and she was driving. And both of them were killed. They were leaving a Halloween function. And it was about two weeks before I was gonna move to Nashville. And was getting ready to start chasing my music journey. And that happened. And just a tremendous blow to our family and our community.
9:41 Anderson Cooper? I understand some family friends drove to get you, to tell you.
9:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, I was out of town.
9:47 Anderson Cooper? That drive back, I mean, that must have been...
9:49 Speaker 03 Oh, it was just tragic. I never will forget hearing those words that Chris had been in a car wreck and had not made it. And I remember just absolutely sobbing for, you know, around an hour and a half car ride. It's the first time in my life I had felt a pain like that. I'd never had any reason to just truly sob like that and hurt at that level. It was really my first big loss and something that I never would have predicted.
10:28 Speaker 03 No one on the planet was more excited about me chasing my music journey and chasing music.
10:35 Anderson Cooper? I saw this picture, which was of you and Chris. This was the last photo that was taken of you two?
10:43 Speaker 03 Yes, he was a big country music fan. And we were in Savannah, Georgia. And we just planned to go see a Hank Jr. concert. And that was our last photo, you know, that we had taken together. And our last time we spoke, it was a Friday. And we just ran into each other outside of the post office in Leesburg. And I bumped into him. And that was our last, I mean, just a real random, just a crazy, random meeting on the street. And, you know, at that time, you never know, it's your last, it's your last moment.
11:25 Anderson Cooper? It's so interesting. My brother died in 1988. And I, the last time I saw him was about three weeks before. Ran into him on the street in New York City on July 4th weekend. Just randomly by accident. And I think we grabbed a burger together. And as you said, you never know that it's gonna be the last time you see somebody. Your brother Chris, he would have been so amazed by what you've done.
11:50 Speaker 03 Oh, man, Anderson. It's, uh... And I'm sure you do this too, with all of your successes and everything that you've done in life. You try to put them in the place. You try to imagine them being there. He was a huge outdoorsman. He loved to hunt and fish. And the fact that he and I could have enjoyed all of the amazing outdoor opportunities together and the fact that we've missed out on that is something that I think about anytime I'm on a big fishing trip or a hunting trip. You know, I just kinda try to imagine
12:32 Speaker 03 what would it be like with my brother here and what his trophy room would look like because I would have invited him on all these amazing opportunities that I've gotten to go on. We had just started connecting. For my whole life, I had been the little pesky brother that was kind of always in the way and wanting to hang out with all of his buddies. And he was always like, "Get out of here, twerp." And now, um...
13:01 Anderson Cooper? That was my role too, actually.
13:04 Speaker 03 But that was another element that really I live with is the fact that we were just starting to talk about things that young men talk about together and doing things together as more sibling-like. I remember him laying on his bed and he was just so, um... He was so enamored that I was actually gonna roll the dice.
13:31 Speaker 03 And go to Nashville. It was almost like he was just so proud that I was so crazy enough to go do it. And I remember him going like, well, what are you gonna do night one? Like, what's your plan? And I never will forget that conversation with him. Cause I could tell that it was like the first time I made my older brother like really proud that I guess that I had the balls to go do this, you know? So it was a really special moment.
14:02 Anderson Cooper? I so relate to what you're saying, though, about I had, I had always imagined as a kid, like my brother and I, my dad died when my brother was 12 and we never talked about it. We kind of grew apart, but I had this idea in my mind that one day we would connect as adults and he would have kids and I would have kids and we would connect in a way that we didn't really as teenagers. Cause I, I had that feeling of like, man, one day we're gonna be really good friends and we're gonna be there for each other. He died at 23 and now that I have kids, I, I feel that a lot.
14:38 Speaker 03 When you think about 23 and 26, when it, when we're in that age bracket, we don't realize how young and, and, and how much life was left, you know, at 26. I mean, it's, it's like, it's just mind boggling how young that is.
14:55 Anderson Cooper? I, I just wanna play a little bit of songs I never heard.
15:40 Anderson Cooper? I love that.
15:41 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, I mean, it's kind of getting me listening to it. I was out on the road touring and the co-writers that I had,
15:51 Speaker 03 we were just sitting around talking about classic songs. And the idea was totally born out of like, oh my God, I can't believe all of these amazing songs that my brother missed. These iconic country music songs that I knew he would have loved. It was just a really, really powerful idea. And it is funny, Anderson, I do get kind of tapped as the fun guy, the guy that likes to party, but I am proud of country music that I can sit down and write a song like that because it helps myself, you know, helps me talk about it and it helps my fans out there.
16:28 Anderson Cooper? I just want to play one more part of Songs I Never Heard.
17:29 Speaker 04 I
17:32 Anderson Cooper? I love you saying mama claims it, but we all know you'd be my number one fan. He would have been your number one fan?
17:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, he would have. I don't think my mother got her feelings hurt when she heard that line because she kind of feels the same way too.
17:47 Anderson Cooper? You were invited to perform the Grand Ole Opry in 2007. Your older sister Kelly, how many tickets did she buy for friends and family to come and see you?
17:57 Speaker 03 I think the final number was more than 120 that she put in her personal credit card. And...
18:07 Anderson Cooper? Did they give you a discount or anything?
18:09 Speaker 03 You know what, I don't know. What was funny is, is so before I go on stage, in between the segments, they do real live radio ads. And my sister's last name was Cheshire. So the guy, the MC goes, "I want to thank Cheshire Tours." They thought she was a touring group. Because they had bought, she had bought so many tickets. And so all of friends, they were all sitting in one section and they jumped up and started hollering because it was just a funny moment. It was a real, definitely a fun, amazing memory.
18:46 Anderson Cooper? And that trip, that was the last time you saw her?
18:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, that day would have been April 6th. And I think it was almost one month to the day that my sister passed away. I never could have imagined that our last photo would have been taken in the lobby of the Grand Ole Opry, right after I had done my first performance.
19:15 Anderson Cooper? She was 39?
19:16 Speaker 03 39, and I would have been 31 at the time. And I'm sure you felt... Dealing with death and tragedy, they're all different. They take different forms and they become different things. And I've never really explained what happened to my sister. You know, there's some misinformation out there on the internet and I think some people kind of like wonder what happened and they think that we've tried to cover it up. But there is a, a very, very small percentage of people that die for no reason in the world. And it's called sudden death syndrome.
19:58 Speaker 03 And that's essentially what they, um, they described my sister's death as. She was in her home doing her laundry and it was, Anderson, it was like, you know, somebody just turned the switch off on her and it was, uh, just, it was, it was just tragic beyond words.
20:22 Anderson Cooper? Did it take a while to, to, to get that, that, that result, the, the diagnosis? Cause there was some, there was, there was articles saying that there were a number of autopsies that were done and.
20:34 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, we, we had, obviously we wanted to know what had happened because there was so much, um, there was just so much unanswered questions. And we wanted to know was, could there be a family history of something that her children might have or, or may have? Your typical findings of an autopsy of someone 39 would be an aneurysm or an embolism or a blood clot of some kind and everything was inconclusive. She had a pretty severe, uh, like organ damage injury.
21:15 Speaker 03 So whether she fainted, well, I think she may have went into the floor and kind of knocked herself out. My nephew, uh, was three at the time and I just think, I think if someone could have been there, maybe, maybe her chances of surviving would have been.
21:33 Speaker 03 Um, would have been a lot better. She really was a s- uh, just a, she was everything in our life. She was a mother of three children and she was, I mean, the best mother you could ever dream of. And we all leaned on her for so many things and it's hard to really wrap your brain around her being gone.
21:54 Anderson Cooper? Doesn't make any sense.
21:56 Speaker 03 And it was so different than my brother because my brother, you can conceptualize a car accident, but you can't really conceptualize someone that was five eleven, a hundred and thirty pounds, healthy as a horse. And, uh, she's just gone and, and I, I, I'm even sitting here talking about it with you. It's just hard to think about my parents having to go through that. I mean, oh, it's just, uh...
22:26 Anderson Cooper? Did you feel like you knew how to grieve more by then?
22:31 Speaker 03 Um, Anderson, my grief process with my sister was massively different than my brother. I think me still being kind of a young man, I didn't properly grieve my brother. And with my sister, being able to have her children and look into their eyes and see my sister has been a much more helpful process. I can see her in them. I can see mannerisms in them. I can see, I can see so many tangible things than my nieces that are my sister. I was in St. Louis, um, when I found out she had passed away.
23:15 Speaker 03 And it was much, it was much the same situation of me just sobbing uncontrollably. I remember when I, when I got to my nieces, I just kept screaming. I was, I was sorry to them. I kept saying I was sorry. And they were, they were too little at the time to understand that I was just telling them I was sorry because... I couldn't believe, I was so sorry for them, that they were gonna have to go through this life without the beautiful human being that she was. I was, I could not, I could not understand how these kids
23:59 Speaker 03 were gonna go through their life without the best mother on the planet. And I remember my nieces going, Uncle Luke, you don't have to say you're sorry. Uh, I don't know. I, I, that was just the word that I kept saying to them. And it was, uh, it was a lot. And still is, you know, now that we're, you know, in, in one of the most amazing situations I've ever had happen to me
24:30 Speaker 03 is the morning of her funeral. The morning of her funeral. I mean, Anderson, I don't know, I don't know how to vocalize what I was feeling. I mean, the nausea, the, the, I did not want to go in the funeral home and see my sister. I was just really not, not processing this well. And the fact that I knew at 5 o'clock PM, I was gonna walk in that, that, that funeral home and have to deal with this. It was just really, I just wasn't doing well with it.
25:10 Speaker 03 And we get in the car and it's the sensation. You get in the car and you know that this has gotta happen. And Anderson, when I walked in the room,
25:21 Speaker 03 I would, and, and I'm a pretty spiritual guy and I'm pretty grounded in my belief in Christ and Christianity. And I would say it was the first time in my life I felt a spirit of another world take away my burden in that room. When I saw her, it was like something, it was almost like a pressure valve released. And, and I just feel like between,
25:53 Speaker 03 I don't, I can't explain it. It was truly like she let, she set me free in that room. And, you know, my mother did not have that experience. And, and, and I think I was the only one in the family that had that experience. But I really had it and had prayed.
26:15 Anderson Cooper? What a blessing.
26:16 Speaker 03 It really was. And I'm not saying it, it made it all go away. I'm just saying for whatever reason, when I felt that emotion, it was really something I'd never, I'd never experienced.
26:31 Speaker 03 I mean, I'm pretty pragmatic in my Christianity. We were a pretty conservative Christian church where we didn't hoop and holler and, and hold our hands in prayer. But when I felt that, it was, it was, it was really something that I did feel a spirit, in her spirit, kind of released me from that. And I think it allowed me to focus. I think it allowed for me to focus on her husband, Lee, and it allowed me to focus on her children and it freed me up in that level to get to work on doing what we needed to do for the family.
27:13 Anderson Cooper? Yeah.
27:13 Speaker 03 When you go and talk about it, I mean, it, it is a lot to unpack. Um, and I, I, I think it's amazing we can sit here and unpack.
27:24 Anderson Cooper? Every time people use a word, I shudder, which is closure. I, I think you can, you can figure out how to walk with grief. You can figure out how to develop a relationship or companionship with it if you're lucky. But I, I don't, I don't think it, there's such a thing as closure. I think that's kind of a made up TV word. But what a moment to experience. I mean, that, that's, it's just incredible. It, it gives me chills to hear you, you talk about it and I'm so glad you had that experience.
27:52 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, and, and closure, yeah, it's, it's, closure is not the word. I would say for me, it was more peace. It was more peace in the moment. I mean, watching my parents go through this twice is just not fair. My mother is a very, very emotional person and she, she grieves their loss way differently than my dad. My dad grieves as southern gentlemen do. You know, my dad locks it in. And my mother is forever changed how she walks through life.
28:33 Speaker 03 And it's, it's stuff that she and I really talk about weekly when she calls me and having bad days. And yeah, I don't think closure's the word. I, I tell people, you're just never going to arrive back to where it was when they were here. You're just, you, you just have to learn to understand that it's a normal emotion, that life, your life will never be the same. And closure's not my word. I, I think that I live every day going, you know, true pieces of my heart and soul and mind were, were taken, never to be given back.
29:12 Speaker 03 And I think you have to be, you have to be ready for that and ready to try to get through.
29:19 Anderson Cooper? We'll have more of my conversation with Luke Bryan in just a moment. But first, if you want to listen or watch past episodes of the podcast or connect with other listeners, you can visit our community page at cnn.com/AllThereIs. That's where you can also watch our new weekly companion show, All There Is Live, every Thursday night at 9:15 PM Eastern. CNN.com/AllThereIs. I'll see you there. We'll be right back with more from Luke Bryan.
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31:20 Anderson Cooper? I want to play a song called "Drink a Beer," which you sing in honor of Chris and Kelly.
32:13 Anderson Cooper? I saw a performance where you did that and you got up and turned and there was a photo of Chris and Kelly. It was beautiful.
32:25 Speaker 03 Chris Stapleton wrote that song, Chris Stapleton and Jim Beavers. And when I look back over the years and I have seen country music fans, I'm talking about from the smallest lady, the smallest lady, five rows back, overwhelmed with emotion, to the biggest, burliest, you know, the biggest, burliest country dude sitting there crying at that song. It's been, it's been the most amazing song in my career for that. And, and I tell
33:09 Speaker 03 you, there are nights that I get, I get out on the road and I'm tired and sometimes I just can't be 100%. Every time I've ever sang that song, my whole life, I've always given it, I've always given it my all for the people in the audience to feel it that way. And it's, it's the reason why I moved to Nashville, to hear songs like that and to record them and really, really use music to help people heal. And, and what is more
33:47 Speaker 03 honest and tender and sweet than just the memory of drinking a beer with somebody? One of my last memories of my sister was her drinking a beer, watching the children play in the yard. And to see my sister with the contentment of like, her being in her dream home, watching her children play and sitting there with her brother.
34:16 Speaker 03 It was pretty special and watching my brother come to me going, "Hey Luke, let's go, let's go put a boat in and I'll, I'll ice down a couple beers and sharing a beer with my brother and Lord knows how many beers I had with my brother-in-law Lee." It was just a perfectly written song and, you know, it's been an honor to be able to sing it and, and help people through the years.
34:41 Anderson Cooper? Kelly's husband, Lee, you were friends with Lee, I understand, from the time like you were eight years old. And is it true, I, I read this somewhere, that you always knew that your friend Lee would marry your sister Kelly when you were a little kid? Is that true?
34:57 Speaker 03 Yeah, we just knew it. They were high school sweethearts. He was a very, very important and pivotal person
35:08 Speaker 03 in my life and he was as much of a brother as Chris was to me.
35:13 Anderson Cooper? Lee died a few years after Kelly.
35:17 Speaker 03 Lee was forty, forty-five, forty-six.
35:23 Speaker 03 And, uh,
35:26 Speaker 03 passed away in the same home that, that my sister passed away in and just had the, the, the, the heart attack that, you know, the massive heart attack, just another, another unbelievable scenario that, that, that that happened to him and those, those kids in that family and-
35:47 Anderson Cooper? You've said that in some ways it was the hardest for you.
35:51 Speaker 03 It, it was because at this point in life, you're going, "What's going on here, God? What have we done? What have we done to have,
36:02 Speaker 03 to have this happen?" You know, and then you start getting pretty mad and sadly you get selfish because you're like, "Why is this? Why us?" And I just didn't understand why these children have to be going through this and it was just, it was a tough thing. It was a really tough thing on my life, my life. Really had a great connection with Lee. It happened over Thanksgiving break, so we were all in town. Celebrating Thanksgiving and the fact that one Friday night, he and I are building a bonfire and the next Saturday morning, we were in his front yard.
36:46 Speaker 03 I was taking my two little boys to go deer hunting and we were sighting in a deer rifle. And I gave him, I gave him a high five and said, I'll see you, you know, after dark. I pulled out of his driveway and 15 minutes later, he is, he is not with us anymore. And it just hit me like a ton of bricks. And I, I've just been put in situations where I try to really appreciate every day and appreciate every moment that you can with, with people and people that you love. And I just, still, still a head scratcher. Why couldn't we have known that he was having some heart issues or why didn't it show itself a little better?
37:29 Speaker 03 But man, it was a, it was a pretty, pretty tragic day.
37:35 Anderson Cooper? You did something extraordinary. You, you adopted their three children and the youngest, Till, I think was 13 or...
37:44 Speaker 03 It's just what you do as family. I guess you go into like a tribe instinct and you, you do what you can to kind of make it. Till being 13, he just expressed that he wanted to come to Nashville with us. And the girls, you're, you're in college. And then Chris, she was essentially a junior in high school. So we didn't really want to uproot the girls. But Till, you know, it wasn't necessarily an adoption, more like we were, we had to sign paperwork that he's, he's our responsibility. And watching him come into our home and have to grieve the loss of his dad was really, really tough. And to watch my wife step up and do...
38:29 Speaker 03 The work that she had to do was one of the most impressive things I've ever seen.
38:33 Anderson Cooper? One of the things I heard you talk about is that you kind of get to see the relationship you had with Chris playing out in the relationship that Till has with your two boys and like the cycles of history repeat, which I'm obsessed with.
38:51 Speaker 03 Well, you know, Anderson, I think you have to find silver linings in all of this, all of this loss and you have to, you have to appreciate the silver linings and my oldest beau and Till, I mean, it is all brotherly. It looks, it looks and smells just like two brothers complaining and fighting and wrestling and giving each other a hard time. But with Tate, my 15-year-old and Till, they have a really special bond and I can't imagine a household where Till would have never grown up in. And I mean, it's just been a, it's just been a blessing and a silver lining
39:33 Speaker 03 to have him and to, to watch the girls go through life and become mothers and, and get through life daily has been pretty inspiring too. I'm really proud of them. And I think the tricky part of this, Anderson, you know, I don't tell them enough how proud I am of them. Like I'll tell you that I'm proud of them, but I need to sit down and look them in the eye. They don't need to come watch this interview with you. They need to, you know, I need to say I'm proud of how they've navigated life.
40:05 Anderson Cooper? Does the grief get worse for you? Does it get better for you?
40:10 Speaker 03 You know, I think it's ever-changing. I think the grief comes and goes in, in waves. I think the grief comes and goes in how I'm doing in my journey in life. On the days that I'm confident in all this, I think the grief is better. And I think on the days where, yeah, I can envision my sister with me and I can envision my brother and my brother-in-law with me and I can envision.
40:39 Speaker 03 I think what might have been and what would Kelly and Lee say about their grandchildren? I mean, it's very hard to go there in your brain. So I think in a lot of those cases, the grief is worse because you just want so bad for them to be in this journey with you. And they can't. And you, and at the end of it, I have to believe the only way that I can make it through is to believe that they're on the other side and we will be reunited one day and it will be all, it will be all well again.
41:22 Speaker 03 And it will be, it will be like it should be. And I have to live with that faith that it will be that way. And I think if I can ever encourage-
41:37 Anderson Cooper? That is the promise of faith.
41:39 Speaker 03 That is the promise. And, and anybody that's lost their faith, and, and listen, you know, you know the deal. I mean, there's countless religions and countless ways to go about your grief, but I always want to stress to people, you have to believe you'll be with them again, or you're just going to have to believe that and, and be strong in that and be confident in that. Are you going to get, are you going to be mad at, you're going to be mad at the situation? Are you going to be mad at God, of course, but really at the crutch of it, you know, at the heart of it, believe you'll be with them again.
42:21 Speaker 03 And I think that's how I've really tried to get through this life. I try to tell people, when I see an 85-year-old lady, I just want to, you want to walk up to them and put your arms around them because you know that life, that life has dealt them these blows. And some people are lucky, some people don't have it to the extent that you and I have it.
42:48 Speaker 03 Some people have it way worse. I mean, good Lord, you've reported on things that are way worse than our scenarios. And you just hope that those people, that they have the faith. They have the faith to understand that they'll be reunited again. And, and that's how I get through this thing. I think if I, if that faith wavers, then a lot of other things waver and my grief becomes stronger and my grief becomes more challenging. But I like to look at someone that's lived a long, healthy life and go, life's, life's been rough on them too. You're not alone.
43:30 Anderson Cooper? Yeah, I mean, everybody you meet has been on this road or will be on this road. And, and everybody who has ever lived has been on this road. And as alone as, as one might feel, as alone, as alone as I often feel, it gives me great comfort to know I'm not alone. And, and yeah, I think there's great beauty in that.
43:59 Speaker 03 Wow. You know, no one gets out of this thing, we don't get out of this thing alive. And I, I.
44:08 Anderson Cooper? That's for sure.
44:10 Speaker 03 I think we have to be careful and never forget that and understand that every day means something and every day is special. And every day that you can love on somebody, you know, show some love to people. I think it's very, very important. I, I've actually had a weird little funky day today where I've been down in the dumps, but you, you just have to get through it and.
44:40 Speaker 03 And and press on because like you said, we are all in this thing together. We're not, we're not insulated, we're not protected. And the only thing that really helps is us understanding that we're, we're all humans together and we all do things, we all process things differently. I mean, when I look at me and my wife's differences of how she's handled all her grief, it is way different than me and I have to respect her for her version of it. She has to respect mine and then we have to, we have to meet in the middle with it too.
45:14 Anderson Cooper? You must count your blessings every day that you walked into the Dingus Bar all those years ago.
45:20 Speaker 03 Well, I do, I don't know.
45:22 Anderson Cooper? And met Caroline because she sounds pretty awesome.
45:25 Speaker 03 Well, I don't know anybody that could have done what she's done. I mean, she goes into life thinking she's marrying a country music singer and the next thing you know, she's helping the girls and the boys and dealing, still putting up with my antics. It's been an amazing journey and it wouldn't, you know, it couldn't have gone on without walking in that bar at Georgia Southern. And even on, on her side of the aisle, you know, she lost her brother and sister, lost a young, they lost a seven month old baby. And we've had to watch them deal with grief, losing a seventh month old. It's very close to us and, and we love them. It's a, it's just, life is hard out there.
46:10 Speaker 03 It's tough and I just hope, I'm, I'm so honored to get to share this with you in, in hokes of helping people through. And I think it's really amazing that you've taken your journey. I mean, you and I grew up in crazy different backgrounds in life. I mean, when I read your story and how you grew up and what you've done and I, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's how far apart we are from whatever.
46:39 Speaker 03 Grief, grief is coming for us.
46:43 Anderson Cooper? Well, Luke, I gotta tell you, I've done a lot of interviews and you don't have to be out there talking about grief, but I just think it's, it's so incredible. Your ability to talk about it and your willingness to talk about it. I am incredibly grateful for this conversation. Thank you.
47:01 Speaker 03 We all have to, we all have to, you know, bond together and help each other through it. And I think it's impressive that you're doing this and thank you.
47:11 Anderson Cooper? Next week on All There Is, my conversation with legendary documentary filmmaker Ken Burns. He's brought history alive on public television through extraordinary series like the Civil War, the Vietnam War, baseball and jazz. But his personal story of loss and his ability to give voice to it is truly remarkable. And I can't wait for you to hear that interview.
47:32 Speaker 06 There'll be something really great that happens, a great award, a great wonderful thing.
47:38 Anderson Cooper? Yeah, I can't do that.
47:39 Speaker 06 And I can't do that. You know, it's almost in a way, and I don't know if this is your experience, but you're disrespecting if you let go of their, of the whatever internal sadness you're supposed to have, or just the sense of loss, or whatever it is. But I, but I know I have at times glimpsed and gone, wow, this is great, you know? And most of the time it's, you know, what's the next thing?
48:04 Anderson Cooper? Yeah. But it's interesting to me because I keep saying to myself, like, they would not want me to be unhappy. They would not want me to feel disconnected. And yet, I do think there is that element of like, if I let go of this.
48:18 Speaker 06 Right. Then you're betraying them in some way.
48:20 Anderson Cooper? Yeah, they disappear altogether. That's next week on All There Is. Join me every Thursday night at 9:15 PM for my new weekly companion show called All There Is Live. It'll be livestreamed on our grief community page at CNN.com/AllThereIs. Every Thursday night, 9:15 PM. We can come together there, talk grief and not be alone. You can also follow us on our new Instagram account, AllThereIs, and the number again for our new voicemail box, 404-827-1805. Wherever you are in your grief, I'm glad you're here. Get ready for election night. CNN is available to stream live.
48:59 Speaker 06 Now with an All Access subscription. Plus, get exclusive content and interactive Q and As with CNN's journalists. Subscribe now. Visit CNN.com/AllAccess.
Previous Coming Back To Life Next Ken Burns' History With Grief Page updated November 1, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated