Postpartum sex: let’s deep it

In today's episode: Our hosts talk about the first time they had sex postpartum, and reveal when most women returned to sex after having a baby (and how many felt pressured to do so). Big thanks to Mixa, the sensitive skin expert, for making this episode of The Room possible. Mixa is your go-to for body moisturisers under $20, find out more here. The Room is produced by Dimity Kirkwood and executive-produced by Lucy Hunt. Our social media team consists of Naima Fatema, Divya Simmie and Erin Taylor, and our partnerships managers are Tabitha Rachmat and Tahnee Malina. We're a new show, and the best way to support us is by clicking ‘follow’ on Apple and Spotify, and we're super grateful to anyone who leaves a five-star review while they're at it. Also! An old-fashioned 'Tell a Friend In Real Life' is equally appreciated. You can follow The Room on Instagram and TikTok. Follow our hosts on Instagram here: Freya, Rafa and Georgia. Hope Brown is on TikTok here, and not.just.the.deed shared the Newly Parents clip here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Freya Bleathman?

  Three, two, one, clap.

• 0:02Rafa Husain?

  Oh, that was terrible.

• 0:04Freya Bleathman?

  Every single number. It was like, three, two, one.

• 0:09Georgia Allison?

  What do we, are we, do we clap on one or clap on clap? Three, two, one.

• 0:15Freya Bleathman?

  Hello and welcome to the room where mothers meet to share their inner world. Where your hosts, I'm Freya Bleethman.

• 0:21Georgia Allison?

  I'm Georgia Allison.

• 0:22Rafa Husain?

  And I'm Rafa Husain.

• 0:23Freya Bleathman?

  And this week we will be talking about returning to sex postpartum.

• 0:27Rafa Husain?

  Juicy.

• 0:31Georgia Allison?

  I don't know, guys, I'm feeling a bit silly.

• 0:33Rafa Husain?

  I know, it's the weather. It is 30 degrees today in Melbourne. For anyone dialing in from other states.

• 0:39Freya Bleathman?

  Which for October is kinda scary.

• 0:42Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, I had an absolute meltdown about what I'm wearing. I'm in tracksuits at the moment, but here we are after childcare drop off. Because I just did not, I'm not prepared. I'm not mentally prepared for the summer.

• 0:52Freya Bleathman?

  You look amazing. Like I said, your tracksuits are basically couture.

• 0:58Freya Bleathman?

  Should we hear quickly from today's sponsor before we get into it?

• 1:01Rafa Husain?

  Sounds good. This episode of The Room is brought to you by Mixer, the sensitive skin expert. Your go-to for body moisturizers under $20.

• 1:10Georgia Allison?

  So guys, how is everyone's week? Does anyone have a recommendation, anything that they want to share?

• 1:15Freya Bleathman?

  Uh, I have a rec. Have you guys ever used Family Album, the app?

• 1:19Georgia Allison?

  No.

• 1:20Freya Bleathman?

  Oh, love it. I've started using it a few weeks ago and it's, I think you can pay for some version of it, but I just use the free version. It's completely great. And you basically can upload photos, I think the idea is of your kids.

• 1:35Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 1:35Freya Bleathman?

  And just add specific people that you wanna have see them.

• 1:40Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:40Freya Bleathman?

  So I find it really good. I mean, all my family, pretty much all my family's interstate. So I just chuck photos of Goldie out there and I'm kind of vaguely not putting a face on social media. Whereas I feel like back in the day, that might have been a way to kind of share photos more broadly. But it's, it's really good. It's nice. I don't have to send the same photo to five different people.

• 2:01Rafa Husain?

  Oh, WhatsApp and things like that. Oh my gosh, that's such a good idea.

• 2:04Freya Bleathman?

  And then my mum then sends that photo to all the same people that I've sent it to.

• 2:07Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 2:08Freya Bleathman?

  She's so excited about it. So it kind of reigns her in as well. Everyone's getting like two versions of every photo. So.

• 2:14Georgia Allison?

  Oh, cool. So it's called Family Album.

• 2:16Freya Bleathman?

  Family Album.

• 2:16Georgia Allison?

  Family Album, sorry.

• 2:17Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah. So I've got one, my sister's got one for her little boy.

• 2:21Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, nice.

• 2:21Freya Bleathman?

  You can toggle between them.

• 2:22Georgia Allison?

  Oh, that's so cute.

• 2:23Rafa Husain?

  Great rec.

• 2:24Freya Bleathman?

  And people can comment on it. Yeah, it's cute.

• 2:26Rafa Husain?

  I feel like there needs to be a solve. Well, I thought recently there needs to be a solve for the sharing on WhatsApp across four different threads. So that answers that very well.

• 2:36Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 2:36Rafa Husain?

  Anything else on your weeks?

• 2:38Freya Bleathman?

  Well, I think just, just speaking of the beautiful weather.

• 2:40Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 2:41Freya Bleathman?

  We got, went to the beach for the first time. We've kind of like walked along the footpath or whatever before, but we went on the sand and in the water. And she had a blast. She is a bit of a water baby anyway.

• 2:52Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 2:53Freya Bleathman?

  And it was so cute. We'd been twice and she's like kicking, she's trying to pick up the shells and the seaweed.

• 2:59Georgia Allison?

  That's so nice.

• 2:59Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, it's really beautiful.

• 3:01Rafa Husain?

  It unlocks a whole new level of parenting over summer, I think, when you've got kids like near the beach or happy to be at the beach. Because I think just like outside, enjoying things, like where you get to combine things that you love doing as an adult and like kids, and they're not face planting into the sand or like really hot because they're a newborn. Like you're getting to that really nice age where they're like crawling and exploring and it's so cute.

• 3:26Freya Bleathman?

  It's cute. I do need to get some kind of shade apparatus though.

• 3:30Rafa Husain?

  We've got the Cool Cabana as an after family rec.

• 3:32Georgia Allison?

  Really?

• 3:32Rafa Husain?

  Yeah. Oh my god, it's unbelievable.

• 3:34Freya Bleathman?

  What is it?

• 3:35Georgia Allison?

  The Cool Cabana? It's like, once you see it, you'll see it everywhere now.

• 3:39Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 3:39Georgia Allison?

  It's a umbrella that sort of looks like a bit more of a gazebo style.

• 3:44Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 3:44Georgia Allison?

  It pops up within seconds.

• 3:46Rafa Husain?

  It's like that four poster.

• 3:47Freya Bleathman?

  It's in the bottom of my prams, you reckon? I've got a pretty big basket.

• 3:50Georgia Allison?

  Yes, it would, but it's pretty.

• 3:51Rafa Husain?

  You can get a smaller one, yeah.

• 3:52Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, actually I've got the large one, but there is a smaller one. So it like folds up to say, I mean, the larger one's probably over a metre, but the smaller one's probably a bit smaller than that.

• 4:01Freya Bleathman?

  How are your weeks?

• 4:02Georgia Allison?

  Well, speaking of like beach, um, beach time, we are picking up a second-hand caravan tomorrow. Matt and I have bit the bullet and we have, we've always been in camping. Like we travelled around Australia when we were 25, um, for about 10 months in like a rooftop tent. So camping has been such a big part of Matt and I's lives, especially when we were in childhood as well. And now when we have the boys, it's just like ramped up. Like they went camping when the boys were about eight weeks old. So we've decided to upgrade our tent setup with our three kids. We were all in one tent, five-person tent and we, yeah.

• 4:43Rafa Husain?

  That is a big upgrade. A tent to a caravan and bunk beds is.

• 4:47Georgia Allison?

  A 20-year-old caravan, but it doesn't matter. We, um, pick it up tomorrow. I cannot wait to, uh, take it out. It's going to be, it's gonna be like camping.

• 4:57Rafa Husain?

  You need to send us some content and share that journey.

• 5:00Freya Bleathman?

  I will.

• 5:01Rafa Husain?

  Green with envy. He.

• 5:02Georgia Allison?

  I know, I've spoken to Ree. We're, we're going camping, guys. We're gonna take the room.

• 5:07Rafa Husain?

  I'm staying in your caravan though, because my, my boundary on camping, um, is I.

• 5:14Freya Bleathman?

  Must not involve tents.

• 5:15Rafa Husain?

  Can't use toilets and like all that sort of stuff.

• 5:19Georgia Allison?

  But what if, what if you're at a caravan park and there's a toilet block? I'll get you over the line. Well, actually, as it turns out, this very old second-hand caravan has a toilet and a shower. I will give you, I will give you access.

• 5:31Rafa Husain?

  Thank you, thank you.

• 5:33Freya Bleathman?

  So funny. What about you, Raf?

• 5:35Rafa Husain?

  I, um, I've had a good week. I feel like just, I know we're sort of talked about this, but we're doing this podcast hosting amongst some other work and, um, getting into a rhythm, which I feel like the first couple of weeks take a bit of getting used to in terms of how you're gonna manage the household. One thing that took an absolute dive was trying to get any sort of exercise in. Whereas I had a few kind of windows throughout the week that have kind of been taken up. Um, now with preparation for this or actually being here for the record and things like that. So I was trying to figure out where to get exercise in. And it comes back to one of the earlier episodes where one of my recs was around, um, doing the fridge dump. It's a terrible name, need to find a better one.

• 6:18Georgia Allison?

  No, it's awesome.

• 6:19Rafa Husain?

  On those days, now that dinner's gonna be ready, I, and they're my office days. I've been packing a gym bag in the office. And if I can make it past the gym, which is near my kids' childcare, I sneak in for a 30-minute sprint on a treadmill or some type of like treatment. And it's like, maybe extends me out from picking them up by 30 minutes. So if it was a 4.45 pickup, it might be an hour 5.15. And I felt guilty because I do wanna see them desperately after a long workday. But I'm like, oh, I haven't been able to squeeze in any exercise. So now I've added two extra workouts to the week on my way home. And it's short and sharp. Like sometimes I think you need to be at the gym for like an hour. And it's like, if you don't have that time.

• 7:04Rafa Husain?

  I read somewhere that the best way to maintain sort of cardiovascular health, when I was doing a bit of, um, research around my treatment program and prognosis. For those that may not have heard, I have a cardiovascular disease sort of genetic predisposition. So I'm really trying to think about heart health. And they were like, if, there's nothing else that you can do except walk on a treadmill, like you're running out of breath. So, you know, at a 6.5 for 20 minutes a day.

• 7:34Freya Bleathman?

  Is that like the speed?

• 7:35Rafa Husain?

  The speed, yeah. So like, you're almost like, they, they describe it as like almost running for a tram or a train and keeping it at that level. That is like actually the best protective mechanism for heart health.

• 7:48Georgia Allison?

  That's great.

• 7:49Rafa Husain?

  So I've done that twice this week. It's meant that I've gone into the gym and yeah, just squeezing it in where I can.

• 7:54Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 7:54Freya Bleathman?

  Something's always better than nothing.

• 7:56Rafa Husain?

  Exactly.

• 7:56Georgia Allison?

  Absolutely.

• 7:57Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, yeah, feeling good. So I feel like a bit of a win.

• 8:00Freya Bleathman?

  Well, I am so excited to hear both of your thoughts on the TikTok video that we're gonna be starting with today. And when we're talking about returning to sex postpartum. Should we watch that now?

• 8:34Freya Bleathman?

  Great. So for those not watching on Spotify, basically she's in the kitchen with her friends. One of her friends is holding her 14-week-old baby boy. And she runs him with a cake or something and it must say that I'm pregnant. And it's just showing their reactions and they're kind of. Confused, surprised, and then super excited. But what we thought was really interesting about this video was actually the comments and the reactions. So the video itself has nine point two million views, so it went fully viral and one point two million likes. But the comments were actually all pretty similar in the sentiment.

• 9:18Freya Bleathman?

  The top comment by Pano was, I mean, congrats, but also tell them to stay off you, your body needs to heal. Which had over six hundred and seventy thousand likes.

• 9:27Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 9:28Freya Bleathman?

  And then the next one was by J M. They definitely talked shit after they left, haha, which has over two hundred and ninety thousand likes, which is obviously talking about the friends.

• 9:39Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, the comments were a bit wild, like they, there was a real negativity in the comments. I didn't really find any positives and they were all directed at her partner. This creator's name's Hope Brown, she's now got lots more followers. She has one point two million followers now, I'm not sure what it was at prior to this viral video. She's a young creator, seems to have like a bit more of a fitness take on, like lots of workouts, lots of, you know, postpartum workouts. Um, and it seems as though she's fallen pregnant. I mean, when you find out you're pregnant, you're what, like three and a half weeks, four weeks pregnant already, so.

• 10:19Freya Bleathman?

  I think she's ten, she got pregnant ten weeks.

• 10:21Georgia Allison?

  Ten weeks postpartum. But yeah, I was just a bit shocked by just the comments. And I know people just love to go ape shit in the comments, to be honest. Like everyone's comments were, some of them were, I'm just here for the comments and these comments are vibing and so on. That like had almost six hundred and fifty thousand likes.

• 10:38Rafa Husain?

  That's cra- yeah, it's pretty wild, isn't it?

• 10:41Freya Bleathman?

  Um, there was one comment that, I don't know, I just rolled my eyes a bit. Someone else said, if I were your friend, I would never be able to look at your husband as a safe person again. That always twenty thousand likes. Like, come on, guys, like, they're acting as though he assaulted her. Like, I don't know, I mean, it, to me, this is just evidence of, have you guys heard of the horseshoe theory?

• 11:06Rafa Husain?

  No.

• 11:07Freya Bleathman?

  It's where, so I think you think of, say, political extremes, far left, far right, as these, as being on the opposite end of a spectrum and this long straight line, starting far left, ending up at far right. But the horseshoe theory is that you actually, it's more of a horseshoe shape. And as you get very far left, very far right, they kind of start meeting in the middle. And I just, I thought this was a great example, cause I'm like, they're really, I think they're thinking, stand up for women, we're protecting her, blah, blah, blah. But actually, what you're doing, in my opinion, is trying to control her reproductive rights. Like you're telling her that she shouldn't have got pregnant at this particular time, in this particular way, which,

• 11:51Freya Bleathman?

  I don't know, it doesn't sound very open minded to me.

• 11:55Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, yeah, it's such an interesting concept. I'm like, when I first watched this video, I went as bright red as my T-shirt today, which is probably what I'm gonna stay at. In terms of the shade, because you might know that I had a very similar experience. So I did get pregnant fourteen weeks postpartum, so I'm a little bit, so with a thirteen month gap. I traditionally feel a little bit uncomfortable just with the way I grew up talking about sex as a, in a detailed sort of way. Like growing up in a Muslim household, it was a bit of a taboo subject, we didn't really talk about affection and all that sort of physicality. But I obviously have a bit to contribute to this topic.

• 12:38Rafa Husain?

  I agree with you, like I think we're assuming we watched this video and the woman had no consent almost in it. It's like, she looks thrilled in the video, she looks stoked, I did not have that reaction. And I certainly didn't announce my pregnancy, my second pregnancy to my friends in that way, because I was so devastated. I had a completely different feeling, so, um, yeah, it just brings up, it brought up a lot for me personally. And I, I will go through it, the feelings as we kind of go through the episode a little bit.

• 13:08Freya Bleathman?

  To hear about the embarrassment going red watching this video, which, yeah, we can get into. I wonder what you guys thought about what people were saying about her friends and their reaction. Do you think that they seemed like they'd be going and bitching about it afterwards?

• 13:26Georgia Allison?

  Her friends appear happy, they're saying congratulations, that is the normal response.

• 13:30Freya Bleathman?

  They're a bit surprised, they're like, what, you're pregnant?

• 13:33Georgia Allison?

  And I just feel like you sort of get a vibe of how you should react. So if the friend who's announcing the pregnancy, I mean, I felt like she was a bit like shocked and not, maybe not embarrassed, go far, as far to say that she was embarrassed. But she was like, put her hands on her knees and be like, ha, I'm pregnant.

• 13:52Freya Bleathman?

  She's laughing.

• 13:53Georgia Allison?

  But I feel like her friends, and I would do this with mine, I'd be gauging what my friend's reaction would, what is. And then I would replicate that.

• 14:01Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 14:02Georgia Allison?

  So, um, her friends are happy, but they're probably saying like, you good, like, is this good news?

• 14:07Freya Bleathman?

  I think that's the only kind of pause that they took was just about that. It was funny, someone said, you would have hated my reaction. And I loved her reply, she said, my dear, that is why I wouldn't be your friend.

• 14:19Rafa Husain?

  Oh, so good, I love that.

• 14:21Georgia Allison?

  She was sort of fighting for her life in those comments, but she did comment a lot, which I didn't mind either. Which probably added to the amount of, you know, how many people liked it, one point two million.

• 14:33Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, and you know, she's laughing all the way to the bank. She's in America, she's on the TikTok Creator Fund, she would be making so much money. Nine point whatever two million views.

• 14:44Rafa Husain?

  God, I should have put my content out there.

• 14:45Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 14:48Freya Bleathman?

  But I do, I don't know, it just like, I just think we're so obsessed with controlling women's bodies. Maybe I'm deeping it too much, but I also think on the flip side, if she'd waited, quote unquote, too long, people would have been pissed off about that. And it is, I think we should mention, the risk with having really short intervals between pregnancies is that there is slightly increased chance of having a small baby or a premature baby and things like that. But most people go on to have completely normal, healthy pregnancies, like it's not, people are acting like she gave a toddler a pack of cigarettes or something. Like, do you know what I mean?

• 15:22Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, the dramatic, yeah, cause there's a lot about like hemorrhaging or this and like in the comments, there's a lot of concern around the, um.

• 15:31Georgia Allison?

  The risks.

• 15:32Rafa Husain?

  The risks, and I have the same, right? Like, they do kind of recommend a bit of a gap between pregnancies. And I can vouch for the fact that it is pretty full on. Like, it is, it's immense what your body has to do in terms of supporting your baby and then also carrying a pregnancy as well. Um, so I get it, I was like, and you know, my friends and I that have similar gaps, we're like, do we regret it? No, would we recommend it? Probably not. And that there is a, there's a difference between those two things. Um, it doesn't seem like they were planning to have such a quick turnaround on the pregnancies, it just happened.

• 16:13Rafa Husain?

  And I think that's probably, yeah, the, the shame and embarrassment comes from potentially a preconceived idea or a vision that I had around a gap that I was gonna have with my family. And also, you know, we're talking about return to sex postpartum. It's a very challenging area because there's the physicality of it, what it means to try and get intimate after having a birth. Um, especially if you've had a traumatic or challenged birth experience or post-birth experience. You get told that there's a G P clearance check around returning to exercise and being cleared to have sex and get intimate with your partner. And that can bring so much pressure to women.

• 16:56Rafa Husain?

  I remember dreading having that check up, being like, oh gosh, because if, if it, if I am cleared, then is the expectation that we do have to. And it raised a few really right conversations that I wanted to have with Will around, what does non-sex intimacy look like for us? Because I'm just, for me, one thing that we touch on a lot is intimacy is physical, spiritual, like connection and, and, and mental alignment. And those three ingredients kind of need to make up how you feel. And the six week check is a tick on physical, but I don't know if partners are really asking about the mental load

• 17:40Rafa Husain?

  and, you know, that, um, spiritual alignment or like how, how to, you know, feel good in that post-birth sort of experience. And I think, yeah, one, one big thing that comes out is like, you tend to think that everyone else is doing it. So you're like, oh my God, I should, and when's too long, like, is it, is six months feels too long? And yeah, I think we've just put a lot of pressure on ourselves and then, yeah, the enjoyment aspect of it as well.

• 18:08Georgia Allison?

  On that, Raf, we actually have the census data where of those who have had a baby in the last two years, when they return to sex. But let's get to that stat after we hear from today's sponsor.

• 18:20Rafa Husain?

  Parenthood has a way of surfacing your village in unexpected places. Thanks to Mixer, we're inviting our community to share their stories for the village mix, celebrating the surprising and heartwarming ways they found support through motherhood. For my husband and I, our village is made up of two groups. First, my O G crew, consisting of family and friends over two decades, who delivered countless meals and gave endless cuddles to my babies in those early days. Then there's a newer crew, mum group friends, work friends and fellow childcare parents, who meet at the pub most weeks for moral support and hot chips. Mixer understands how much a village matters and their skincare range supports every stage of life, from infants through to adults.

• 19:00Rafa Husain?

  One of our favourites is a bum seeker plus, a multi-purpose repair bum, suitable for babies from three months. You can shop the full Mixer range at Chemist Warehouse and thank you so much to Mixer for making this episode of The Room possible.

• 19:15Georgia Allison?

  We're gonna go to the census data, so Shameless Media put out a census a few weeks ago, months ago now, and we had twenty thousand respondents. A subset of that was asked of women who have had a baby in the last two years and wanted their responses of when they returned to sex and what timeframe that was. We've got the data, but before we get into that, when did you guys return to sex? I feel like, Raf, we know Raf.

• 19:45Rafa Husain?

  Too soon. Well, no regrets.

• 19:48Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, no regrets, but that's interesting too soon because let's maybe deep that a bit like. Freya, throw to you, what, when did you?

• 19:56Freya Bleathman?

  Well, I, and context, I had a normal vaginal delivery. I had a prem baby, so she was kind of small. And I wasn't pregnant for as long as most people, because she was also born prem, so less strain on the pelvic floor. I had sex, I think, seven weeks postpartum. Which, like, what? I feel like I need to defend myself.

• 20:20Georgia Allison?

  I don't mean to do that. I'm just like, fucking go off girl. Well, you're here for me in a moment. I'm like, like, honestly, hats off.

• 20:28Freya Bleathman?

  Yes. Raf, you iconically got pregnant the very first time.

• 20:31Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Freya Bleathman?

  I think it's iconic.

• 20:34Georgia Allison?

  Absolutely, mate. You have to wear that. That is iconic.

• 20:37Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, I did. We had roomie. I had a pretty straightforward, um, postpartum experience in terms of the physical.

• 20:44Freya Bleathman?

  You did have an episiotomy though.

• 20:45Rafa Husain?

  I did have an episiotomy, but no pain, no, um, sensitivity around it. I did worry about what it was going to feel like and, you know, you don't really hear a lot about how much can change down there. And that was one thing, and I said this in episode zero, I was like, for us, it was almost like a bit of a checklist, like I needed to get it done to make sure I felt okay down there. And, you know, when we sort of started emerging from a bit of the haze, it was probably like, yeah, 10, 12 ish weeks and husband is quite great at making cocktails. So we were like, we've emerged, we're having like a pasta dinner.

• 21:27Freya Bleathman?

  I was wondering at the end of that. My husband is quite great.

• 21:33Rafa Husain?

  Cocktails.

• 21:35Rafa Husain?

  Made us some Negronis and we were feeling good. I think we had a few stretches of sleep and, you know, we were kind of having a really nice D and M chat and we were like, all right, like it's feeling good. Um, checklist in my head about like how it was going to feel. And to be like fully transparent, the experience didn't feel like it did pre-birth and that kind of shocked me a little bit, but I think a big part of that intimacy is around feeling safe with that person. I did feel like I was ready to experience it. I didn't feel pressure. It was perfect time. But I was surprised that it did feel quite different. And I was like, oh God, like things have, whilst everything is sound,

• 22:20Rafa Husain?

  the feeling and sensations is like a bit different. And that was probably due to where the episiotomy scars and stuff were. Again, I'm going to have to get my mum to not listen to this episode because I'm absolutely mortified for the detail. Yeah, yeah.

• 22:33Georgia Allison?

  Don't listen to this to my brothers, parents, Elliot.

• 22:37Freya Bleathman?

  Elliot didn't even like when you complimented my boobs.

• 22:40Rafa Husain?

  Brother-in-law, mums, please don't listen to that. I'll, I'll, I'll send that warning out. I think importantly, it was, uh, whilst a box ticking exercise, it was really nice to reconnect. And the feeling that I had was, oh my gosh, we're parents now. Like this for a long time had, was a bit of a means to an end. Like when you're trying to get pregnant and trying to conceive, you can take the joy out of the experience a little bit because you're like, we have three days and it's a lot of pressure on the guy. And I think like, certainly for us, I think Will was like, oh thank God, it's a nice experience to not have

• 23:19Rafa Husain?

  like an outcome related to this experience. So that enjoyment.

• 23:23Georgia Allison?

  Was an outcome related to that experience.

• 23:25Rafa Husain?

  Oh my God, I totally forgot.

• 23:28Rafa Husain?

  That was how relaxed we were.

• 23:30Freya Bleathman?

  That's what people say. They're like, just stop worrying about it.

• 23:33Rafa Husain?

  Didn't take my pill that morning or something like that, or the next day. It was one pill missed, one experience.

• 23:41Georgia Allison?

  And one little girl who wanted to come.

• 23:42Rafa Husain?

  Little girl who was absolutely ready to join the world. So yeah, that's, that was our return. And safe to say, if we're touching on this now, the second experience has been very different to the first.

• 23:58Freya Bleathman?

  As in second postpartum experience.

• 24:00Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, a hundred percent. Probably sheer fear of like getting pregnant again.

• 24:04Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 24:05Rafa Husain?

  I live with my mum now.

• 24:06Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, okay.

• 24:07Rafa Husain?

  Greatest libido killer of all time. Like, imagine if there's a parent next door, it ain't happening. So now we're very much trying to find the ways of connection that aren't just physical intimacy. And then when we do, we have to like plan it in advance and it's usually around when mum's not here, she's travelling a lot or we'll book a weekend or a night away and things like that. So it's quality over quantity. And it works for both of us. And that's been really nice to kind of go on a journey about and just kind of take the pressure around how often it should be happening and just making sure when it does happen that we're really like, yeah, on the same page about it.

• 24:47Freya Bleathman?

  What about you, Georgia?

• 24:49Georgia Allison?

  Disclaimer, I had a cesarean and I gave birth at 31 weeks, um, and four to five days. Was in hospital, the boys were in hospital for 32 days and my recovery was like slow and steady. Um, I mean, for those 32 days, I was in and out of a hospital. I could, like, we couldn't drive, so I had to be, you know, Matt was my full-time carer. Um, I think I was still bleeding at six weeks. And I actually had this funny story to share and I don't know if you guys had this conversation in the hospital, but I clearly remember, I think the boys were not even 12 hours old. I had barely met them.

• 25:31Georgia Allison?

  And a doctor came into my room and sat me down and we were talking about recovery. He's looking at my scar, all was looking well. And then he starts having a contraception chat with me about how when it's next.

• 25:43Rafa Husain?

  Post-birth?

• 25:44Georgia Allison?

  Post-birth. Did you get this?

• 25:45Rafa Husain?

  No, not post-birth. I did at the six-week checkup.

• 25:48Georgia Allison?

  He gave, have you, is this something that routinely happens?

• 25:51Freya Bleathman?

  I can't remember. I, I don't, I, I mean, I'm not the one giving the talk.

• 25:54Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, of course. I mean, yeah, you're the paediatrician. But he comes in and he starts, yeah, all, you know, bedside manner's fine. And then he starts talking about contraception.

• 26:04Rafa Husain?

  You're like, mate, this could not be.

• 26:06Georgia Allison?

  I was being fucking punked. I was like, I'm sorry, what? I was literally, I hadn't even met the kids, my own children. And he's talking to me about when it's safe next to have sex.

• 26:15Rafa Husain?

  All right, that's wild.

• 26:16Georgia Allison?

  Sex, I mean, I just had three babies. They're my biggest contraception, my friend. Like, I, anyway, I went, when I went downstairs to meet them, told Matt and he was like, what is this? And I'm like, it must just be routine, like.

• 26:29Freya Bleathman?

  It probably is some kind of box ticking, you know, you have to kind of flag it.

• 26:34Georgia Allison?

  But it was hilarious.

• 26:36Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 26:37Georgia Allison?

  Um, so getting to my return to sex, I actually kind of remember when we did it. I had to bring Maddie in. I spoke with him last time. I'm like, do you remember? And he's like, not really. We had a few attempts and it did not go well. I was really surprised with having a cesarean that I, it really hurt down there, like really hurt.

• 26:57Rafa Husain?

  Saying like in a previous one that it was like the dry.

• 27:00Georgia Allison?

  Very, very painful, like stinging. I also was breastfeeding and I actually really recall thinking to myself, fuck, if I never going to feel this sort of pleasure again. Like I was really worried. But then I did a little bit of research and with breastfeeding, prolactin is a hormone responsible for milk production and lactation in pregnancy. And breastfeeding generally decreases your sex drive, but it also lowers your estrogen levels, which um, can increase dryness. I mean, it was like the Simpson Desert down there. Like I, no matter how much lube, I still didn't get the same sort of pleasure experience.

• 27:41Freya Bleathman?

  And it is, it's interesting with the hormone profile while you're breastfeeding. Cause you, your estrogen drops and your testosterone drops. And it is a similar kind of profile to menopause, which is another time when your libido typically does drop a little bit. But I, I found it interesting on the breastfeeding piece. I felt like sex didn't feel good again until I finished breastfeeding.

• 28:04Georgia Allison?

  And I, I completely agree.

• 28:06Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 28:06Freya Bleathman?

  Like, it felt kind of numbish. I don't know. Like it just wasn't, I just could feel so much more once I'd weaned. And that was the same, I feel like almost during pregnancy as well. I just, I don't know. I don't want to get too graphic, but it was just like, things didn't come as easily to me, let's say.

• 28:23Georgia Allison?

  I think that on the hormone, I also had like toad light, I think I touched on like having postpartum thyroiditis. So my hormones were all out of whack anyway. But really it felt a lot different once I, um, stopped breastfeeding. So that was a real like relief in the end that I was like, okay, great. We're, we're back on here. And but also on that, like, I don't feel, I didn't really feel fully myself until my kids were about two years old. Like, I think that's when I came back into my own, you know, fully stopped breastfeeding. I didn't feel like my body was really my own during that time. I think a lot of our listeners could probably resonate. Like if you're breastfeeding,

• 29:06Georgia Allison?

  um, you might not feel like yourself. You feel very much like a mother, which is great. And, you know, but you're not maybe feeling like your most sexual self.

• 29:15Rafa Husain?

  No.

• 29:16Georgia Allison?

  Um, and so I really recall around that two-year mark, feeling like really different hormonally and, uh, physically.

• 29:24Rafa Husain?

  I was surprised by how little I knew about my body before having kids. And then post, I, I was like, this does not belong to me. And my husband felt that too. He's like, your body. Is keeping our kids alive at the moment through fuel nutrition. And so that really does take that sexual drive away. Where you're like, I've got leaky milky boobs.

• 29:45Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, cause your boobs are kind of off limits. Your nipples were so sore.

• 29:49Rafa Husain?

  They're huge and engorged and like, you know, you might try and have, and like they're leaky milk. And you just like, oh, like, it's just, the sensory is geared towards your kids. So to your point, it can take a good couple of years. I wish I knew that before.

• 30:04Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 30:05Rafa Husain?

  Having kids.

• 30:05Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 30:06Rafa Husain?

  Um, that it was gonna feel a bit different because yeah, it is, it is a, it has a different function at the time. I think you mentioned in a previous episode that you felt like a superhero. Because you do, you're like, boobs are popping and, you know, everything is geared towards the kids. But it does take on a different meaning.

• 30:22Georgia Allison?

  And a different role.

• 30:23Rafa Husain?

  And a different role.

• 30:24Georgia Allison?

  But interestingly, our listeners, fifty percent of our postpartum listeners who have had a baby in the last two years, returned to sex within twelve weeks of childbirth.

• 30:35Rafa Husain?

  It's pretty good. I mean, like, average, yeah.

• 30:39Georgia Allison?

  Mate, I was like, go off everyone. I was like, this is huge. Yeah. I was wrapped for everybody. I did not fit into that category.

• 30:49Rafa Husain?

  No.

• 30:49Georgia Allison?

  I don't think I fully answered. I reckon I was like six months post. I, I think I was beyond six months.

• 30:56Freya Bleathman?

  Hmm. And it'd be interesting to see the range, cause I'm sure there's people that probably did pre-six weeks. And then people that maybe they still haven't at the two-year postpartum mark.

• 31:07Rafa Husain?

  Exactly. And I think normalizing the normal range of when it feels right for you and your partner is such an important thing. Because I also don't want people to feel like if they haven't had sex and listening, and they've hit twelve to sixteen weeks, that they're in any sort of rush if they don't feel ready. Because I also do think that that's the dangerous side of stats and the pressure that we put on ourselves to return to something that might not feel right.

• 31:31Georgia Allison?

  Yep.

• 31:32Rafa Husain?

  Is like, if you're connected to your partner and you guys can map out what that return looks like. And for us, it was very much, especially the second time around, it has been intimacy without sex like week. But what are some driving factors that look like intimacy is like, we all, this came out of the marriage counselling. Whilst we didn't go to a marriage counselor around the intimacy side, it was around, um, other elements of our parenting. She did touch on like the whole same team element and like trying not to have contempt. Like, don't eye roll at your partner if he does something annoying, like all that kind of stuff. And she was like, give your partner a six-second kiss. It's a theory from the Gottman Institute.

• 32:15Rafa Husain?

  And it is something that Will and I try and prioritize. It's like a kiss that's not a peck. And it lasts for a little bit longer is like a great driver of like, I love you and I still choose you in all of these shapes. We might not be having sex as regularly, but god, you're beautiful. Like, those kinds of things can make women feel really loved while we're doing a really, really big journey. So I think the average might be fifty percent and that's great. And if it's going well, awesome, but don't feel stressed out.

• 32:43Freya Bleathman?

  And it's only fifty percent.

• 32:45Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 32:46Freya Bleathman?

  There's still half that haven't at twelve weeks.

• 32:49Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Freya Bleathman?

  Speaking of timing of sex postpartum, there was a really interesting podcast segment that I'd like to hear your thoughts on. So we're talking about sort of making the decision together, but we know it can happen that men ask women for sex shortly after birth and maybe before they're ready. And the example we've got is Jamie Lang, who came under fire after trying to have sex with his wife weeks after birth. And I will say really quickly, he has been a guest on Shameless previously.

• 33:18Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, he's, um, Made in Chelsea guy. They did newly.

• 33:22Georgia Allison?

  Candy kittens.

• 33:23Freya Bleathman?

  You listen to their pod, don't you?

• 33:24Rafa Husain?

  Newly married, newly, yeah, I listen to their pod.

• 33:26Georgia Allison?

  They're awesome. I love Jamie Lang.

• 33:27Rafa Husain?

  They're pretty funny. Um, yeah.

• 33:30Freya Bleathman?

  Hmm. Should we watch? So the actual clip has been deleted, but someone did stitch it. So should we watch that now?

• 33:36Speaker 03

  I remember when I tried to initiate it like a couple of weeks in and you were like, are you kidding me? Look at me.

• 33:42Speaker 04

  No, because Jamie, three weeks, was literally like, we need to have sex. Like, this is not normal. Please, Sophie, I've waited a year, literally crying.

• 33:53Speaker 03

  No, Sophie, I was not.

• 33:55Speaker 04

  You went, please, and stamped your little arms on your legs. And you were like, I've waited a year. And I was like, Hertie, I actually physically cannot. I have stitches all over me down there. Secondly, I have to be signed up by the doctor. And you were like, oh, that's bullshit. It's always an excuse with you. You don't have to be signed up with the doctor.

• 34:16Georgia Allison?

  I.

• 34:17Rafa Husain?

  Will kill, will murder.

• 34:19Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 34:20Rafa Husain?

  Oh my god, Jamie. I also, it is very on-brand for him to say that as a reaction though. Cause if you listen to their pod, um, he's pretty hilarious at just saying like juvenile things. And Sophie's often like just telling him off cause he's a child and talks to him and she says like Jamie is a child. So.

• 34:39Freya Bleathman?

  The little stamping, your little hands.

• 34:42Rafa Husain?

  I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and say like, he was doing that for a reaction from her to make content for the podcast.

• 34:49Georgia Allison?

  And even the way that far though, like if she had to call the doctor and say like, I mean, I think the person who's did the stitch up was, um, talking about how the, she had to call the doctor.

• 35:01Freya Bleathman?

  Did she?

• 35:02Rafa Husain?

  No.

• 35:02Georgia Allison?

  I think so.

• 35:03Rafa Husain?

  No, she said, I need to get cleared from the doctor.

• 35:05Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, and the doctor's name or whatever it was. And she's, she calls him and then he, he's at like six weeks is sort of, as you, to your point, um, around infection.

• 35:16Rafa Husain?

  To like explain the process to the child that is Jamie Lang.

• 35:20Georgia Allison?

  Why are we awaiting six weeks? You know, there's necessary bleeding, stitches need to heal, um, and so on. But yeah, I think those two are very provocative and have a very funny relationship in terms of like their banter.

• 35:35Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah. Well, it was another one. I thought the comments were interesting. So there was an article that pulled a few of the comments before it was deleted. I mean, one said it was horrifying. Another said, not only can't you have sex until after six weeks, you also can't have sex when the other person doesn't want it. And I don't know, like, I agree, but from what I can tell, they didn't have sex.

• 35:55Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Freya Bleathman?

  Like, people are really, like, at the end of the day, forgetting the postpartum bit, I'm sure we've all been in situations where our partners wanted to have sex and we haven't. So you just haven't had sex.

• 36:07Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Freya Bleathman?

  And I think like, yes, is it a bit of an ick that he, I think more than anything, just didn't seem to know that that's what the recovery is like. Like, I think that kind of gives me the ick a little bit.

• 36:18Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 36:18Freya Bleathman?

  I don't think, I don't know, people just acting like he's fucking assaulting her. Like, she just, she said no and they didn't.

• 36:25Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. Both of the comments on both, um, Hope Brown's TikTok and then also Jamie Lang's, uh, you know, cut down. So much of the commentary is around projecting your only experience in the comments. Like with Hope Brown and her having sex ten weeks.

• 36:41Freya Bleathman?

  Oh, sorry, that was the first TikTok we asked.

• 36:43Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. With her postpartum, um, sex, people are like, oh my god, like, can't believe, like, cause they're projecting their own experience. Couldn't imagine that your husband would do that to you.

• 36:54Freya Bleathman?

  I mean, I think this six week, it's a bit of an arbitrary measure. I think it's mainly just when you usually stop bleeding and infection and things like that. But there would be people having sex earlier and maybe a couple of weeks later, she did feel ready and she really wanted to have sex.

• 37:08Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 37:08Freya Bleathman?

  Like, you know, you can give a suggestion as a doctor, but people are adults. They can make their own decisions. We're not standing there being like, get it out. Like, do you know what I mean?

• 37:19Rafa Husain?

  They can, but I do.

• 37:23Freya Bleathman?

  It depends on the relationship, communication.

• 37:25Rafa Husain?

  A bit anti-man overall because our second census data does talk a bit around the challenges that women face. Um, and it is something that I think we should unpack because it is, it's a contentious topic for a reason. And I'm so glad we're having this conversation because it, I think, if anything, it just shows that there's a variety of experiences, choices and options that people have, which is providing a couple of sides of, you know, is it too soon or too late? And like the, the variety and the range between them. Being a busy mum, sometimes you're lucky to remember to slap on some moisturizer and sunscreen before running out the door. And that's not even getting into how pricey skincare can be these days.

• 38:09Rafa Husain?

  That's where Mixer comes in. Their range of ingredient-led skincare has something for the whole family and it won't break the bank. It's one streamlined routine you can all adopt and it's created for sensitive skin, so you know it's safe to use on your little ones. You can shop the entire Mixer range at Chemist Warehouse and thank you so much to Mixer for making this episode of The Room possible.

• 38:30Freya Bleathman?

  So like we said before the break, one of the other questions that we asked the census respondents was of those who had returned to sex by that two-year mark, what percentage felt a little or a lot of pressure to return to sex? And those who felt a little or a lot of pressure to return to sex postpartum, sat at forty-three percent, which is almost half.

• 38:54Rafa Husain?

  That's high.

• 38:55Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 38:55Georgia Allison?

  I'm just gonna clarify. So they've returned to sex, they've already.

• 38:59Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, yeah. So we excluded, there's probably a smallish percentage that still hadn't by that two-year mark.

• 39:04Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. And then now they have, they're feeling a little or a lot of pressure to continue to have sex.

• 39:11Freya Bleathman?

  I interpreted that as when they first went back to sex, how many felt a little or a lot of pressure.

• 39:18Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, okay, perfect. Alright, bang on. I am a little bit surprised, I must say. I think that's like higher than I would have thought.

• 39:25Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, I agree. I thought it was high. Forty-three percent of women who answered, you know, returning to sex in the last two years have felt pressure, um, a little or a lot of pressure. Like, it made me sad hearing that because I think it justifies maybe some of the commentary that we are seeing on these videos, that people are saying, stay off her. Because the woman is saying that they have felt pressure, so.

• 39:51Freya Bleathman?

  And do you think that pressure's coming from the partner? We don't sort of explore where that pressure's coming from. Because I felt a bit of pressure to get back into it, but it wasn't coming from.

• 39:59Rafa Husain?

  It was for culture.

• 40:00Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 40:01Rafa Husain?

  Culture, what you hear from your friends.

• 40:03Freya Bleathman?

  I think so. I was just like, I've hit the six-week mark. I.

• 40:08Rafa Husain?

  Should.

• 40:08Freya Bleathman?

  I should. And I think a little bit, like you said before, Raf, there was a bit of, I just wanna do a little bit of an.

• 40:14Georgia Allison?

  Assessment.

• 40:15Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, what's the word I'm thinking of? Like a recon of sort of what we're working with. And so maybe a little bit of that to kind of get onto it. I mean, I saw a pelvic floor physio before I went back anyway. But I think I, I was surprised by the stat that fifty percent, only fifty percent had gone back to sex twelve, within twelve weeks. So, because I.

• 40:40Rafa Husain?

  I thought that was, I thought that was high. That's so interesting. Yeah.

• 40:44Freya Bleathman?

  And talking to my friends, I think I was quite quick getting back into it. Which is funny because we're not like a couple that has heaps and heaps of sex or anything like that.

• 40:53Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 40:54Freya Bleathman?

  Um, but I don't know, where did that pressure come from? I think a little bit was acknowledging that having a baby is a really stressful thing for a relationship to go through. And I know that sex is good for our relationship. I mean, particularly Rue, his love language is quality time and physical touch.

• 41:11Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 41:12Freya Bleathman?

  And for him, sex is really important, an important way to feel connected.

• 41:16Rafa Husain?

  Yep.

• 41:17Freya Bleathman?

  And I think I kind of wanted to also do that for him and us and just reconnect in that way outside of being parents. So I think.

• 41:27Rafa Husain?

  I don't know if we've touched on love languages though. It's an interesting one and I think it's worth, can you, do you remember what the five are?

• 41:34Freya Bleathman?

  Physical touch, quality time, acts of service, giving and receiving gifts and words of affirmation.

• 41:39Rafa Husain?

  Perfect. Bang. She's done them.

• 41:41Freya Bleathman?

  Genuinely.

• 41:42Rafa Husain?

  I love them. I swear by them too.

• 41:43Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, I swear by them. I mean, I'm a little like. And it's so funny, Bruce is like, physical touch, quality time, and mine's getting gifts and acts of service.

• 41:53Georgia Allison?

  My, I, I did mine in preparation and mine have absolutely changed since I've had.

• 41:58Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, I'm surprised. Theory that it depends on A, your life stage and B, your relationship and what you feel might be missing from the relationship. That might impact how you answer things.

• 42:07Georgia Allison?

  So you want, um, so gift giving because you want Rue to give you more gifts?

• 42:11Freya Bleathman?

  Well, I.

• 42:12Rafa Husain?

  If you're listening, Rue.

• 42:14Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah, I'm a real, I think I love a little present.

• 42:17Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 42:18Georgia Allison?

  I might change mine. I'm gonna do.

• 42:19Freya Bleathman?

  If anyone's listening and wants to, send me a little present, a little dopamine hit from that. Like someone could say to me like, oh, you're this, you're that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, whatever they have to say about or something. It just doesn't mean that much to me. Whereas some people would be like, someone writing me a beautiful card with everything they love about me is like the best thing that you could do to make me feel loved.

• 42:42Rafa Husain?

  Yeah. And that's why I love them so much because to get on the same page, because we give and receive love in different ways. And a lot of our earlier sort of fights is like, just kind of getting on the page that actually you might think, oh, because you love gifts, so giving gifts is the other way. The other person loves receiving, you know, affection, but they might be quality time. So you might be skint on time and giving all these gifts. The other person's like, mate, I just wanna hang out with you. So like those early days of like trying to figure out those building blocks of your relationship are so important. I think you speak even more postpartum and post-birth because things change again.

• 43:23Freya Bleathman?

  Rue's kind of a bit hard done by because all I need to do is kind of pat him on the back and tell him I love him and he's set for the week. Whereas for me, I'm like, I must have a gift. I must, give me a present.

• 43:34Rafa Husain?

  But you did, you did touch on the fact that you know his love language is physical touch. And that was a consideration for you maybe getting intimate again. Like you know that he feels love that way.

• 43:45Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 43:45Rafa Husain?

  Um, so it's just interesting, I think, because you are considerate of like how that bond forms for you guys. And it was a consideration factor for returning to sex.

• 43:55Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah.

• 43:55Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, postpartum.

• 43:57Freya Bleathman?

  Yeah. It's funny, I mean, in some ways I almost feel like having a baby has taken the pressure off.

• 44:02Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, I do too.

• 44:03Freya Bleathman?

  I used to feel, I mean, I think we've got the stats about how often people have sex. And I'm dying to do an episode on that because I really wanna know. But I feel like pre-baby, I felt guilty that we weren't doing it every week. Like I had this thing in my mind that healthy relationships, you should be having sex once a week. Whereas now we've got a baby, we think we're like fricking legends if we do it once a fortnight. We're like, look at us go. Like, we're teenagers. Like, we just think.

• 44:33Rafa Husain?

  That is, yeah.

• 44:34Freya Bleathman?

  Pat on the back.

• 44:36Rafa Husain?

  Absolutely. And so you talked about pressure, right? It could be culture or society driven by what people are doing, what you're hearing. Um, what about pressure from the man? And.

• 44:48Georgia Allison?

  Yeah, I mean, interpreting that some of the.

• 44:50Rafa Husain?

  What can pressure feel or look like? I just wanna unpack that a bit.

• 44:54Georgia Allison?

  Absolutely. I feel like subtle pressure or pressure in any ways, like if we're just assuming just for a moment, for the sake of the stat, that some of the pressure that these women are feeling, like remembering it's forty-three percent have feel a little or a lot of pressure to have sex. Let's assume that that's coming from the men. What pressure can look like is maybe commenting on, we used to do it a lot more. And now we've had a baby and we're not doing it as much. So you're comparing yourselves to a pre-baby self. We can just be a trap really and trying to keep up with that. Or the gentle like nudge or like the look over once you've finished, once the kids are going to sleep.

• 45:31Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 45:31Georgia Allison?

  Which again, I feel I can go either way.

• 45:34Rafa Husain?

  Hand on the hip or like just a bit of a, oh, we haven't cuddled in ages or like that kind of, yeah.

• 45:40Freya Bleathman?

  That stuff I hate.

• 45:42Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 45:42Freya Bleathman?

  Like the keeping tabs.

• 45:44Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 45:44Rafa Husain?

  Me too.

• 45:45Freya Bleathman?

  And I kind of do it mentally too. Like I do, I, I note, I'm aware. If we've not had sex in, say, three or four weeks, I'm like, oh, we should soon. Not like, I don't know, I feel like that's.

• 45:59Rafa Husain?

  Because you want to or because you're thinking someone else?

• 46:02Freya Bleathman?

  No, I mean, to be fair, like I, maybe this is controversial, but like I often don't really feel like when we start having sex.

• 46:10Georgia Allison?

  I feel like I wouldn't mind deeping that because on that, like some pressure can, can pressure be a good thing? Like can any of the pressure, because sometimes I feel like I might not be super keen. But maybe a text throughout the day saying how I am or just gentle connections with, with Matt.

• 46:30Freya Bleathman?

  Or just getting started. Like I feel like a lot of women have a quiet, rather than maybe necessarily having spontaneous libido arousal, it's a bit reactive. Like I kind of, I'm not sort of just gonna see him and be like, oh, yeah. But like once we get started, which I think a little bit of that sometimes comes from like, oh, we probably should. It's been a few weeks. And then I end up really enjoying myself and it's really nice for both of us. So I think it's an interesting kind of counter question is, is all pressure bad?

• 47:02Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. Maybe even planning sex. Sometimes if it's planned, like you were talking about, you know, you're not maybe having as frequent sex with, living with your parents. I'm also currently with my parents. I fall into that category.

• 47:14Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 47:14Georgia Allison?

  But if there's any planning around it, especially if someone takes the lead, whether it's myself or Matt, there's just like this a bit of excitement and you get a bit silly.

• 47:23Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, you do.

• 47:24Georgia Allison?

  It's a bit fun. And so even if it's planned and you, hey, it might change your mind and you'd be like, absolutely not today. Because I've had a big meltdown, um, kids, maybe me. But, um, so maybe not tonight. But that planning, I think there's a lot to be said for that sort of subtle pressure that you can both be involved in.

• 47:42Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, I think it's really interesting around this pressure that women can feel. And maybe I've just been reading the news too much, but there is a conversation happening, rightfully so, around the role of consent. And a woman's no being a firm no. So I do wanna acknowledge that there may be listeners and people that see this and hear this and say that they have been in experiences or circumstances where someone has asked and they've said no, and then it has been non-consensual. And that's a part of it that makes me feel sad. Like I think about what I want affection, physicality to look like for Roomy and Lila, and I want them to see a happy, loving relationship. But I also, especially Roomy and being a boy mum,

• 48:27Rafa Husain?

  I am thinking around how he understands a no from his sister, how he understands a no from me. Because I do think that that early understanding around when a woman feels uncomfortable looking out for their facial features and that kind of stuff feels really important. And it does then come to this stat and probably why I felt sad about the forty-three percent. I did go straight to like men's pressure versus cultural pressure, interestingly. But I do think it's just because we are seeing so much out in society around men not understanding consent and where that can, where that line is.

• 49:02Freya Bleathman?

  And that's maybe feeding into a lot of the comments where saying like, whoa, this reaction seems a bit out of proportion.

• 49:08Rafa Husain?

  Yeah.

• 49:09Freya Bleathman?

  But maybe they were in a situation where they, their lack of consent wasn't respected. Yeah.

• 49:15Georgia Allison?

  Yeah. And our data has already shown that, like forty-three percent of women feel either a little or a lot of pressure to have sex.

• 49:21Rafa Husain?

  Yeah. So whether it is coming from the partner or societal, I think it's worth noting that the pressure exists.

• 49:27Georgia Allison?

  Yeah.

• 49:28Rafa Husain?

  Um, and that is something that women feel. One thing that we haven't really touched on and it comes from the cultural thing is I have, you know, concerns around infidelity and some, that's another driving pressure sometimes for me. It's like, oh, if I don't do it this way, like a heart might change. And that, we're gonna need to dove into a whole other topic.

• 49:46Freya Bleathman?

  Stats on that. I feel like I answered a question.

• 49:48Rafa Husain?

  Yeah, yeah. Because, and I think that just comes down to it that women do feel pressure, enormous amount of pressure. Rightfully so, because there are lots of different, you know, areas that this could go. I just hope that the people that are listening are in those loving sort of relationships and partnerships. So you can have an honest conversation around what feels right.

• 50:08Freya Bleathman?

  And you know, obviously we keep saying the man, like this is a very heteronormative conversation. I think we're maybe assuming or expecting better from women. And I, I would be interested, really interested to know the stats for listeners in same-sex relationships. Because I suspect they'll be quite different.

• 50:24Georgia Allison?

  Very different.

• 50:25Rafa Husain?

  Send us a mailbag.

• 50:26Georgia Allison?

  Mm-hmm. I think that's all we have time for. I would recommend everyone do their love languages if you haven't already. Yeah, it's free. I did it last night. If you have a friend that's in their postpartum period, send this episode along. Come and have a chat with us in our DMs. Follow us at The Room Podcast on Instagram. Email us at [email protected] and we will be back in your ears on Thursday.

• 50:49Freya Bleathman?

  Ciao.

• 50:56Speaker 05

  Shameless Media. This podcast was recorded on Wurundjeri land. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land.

• 51:05Speaker 06

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